The Picts: The Ogham Writing System Part I
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- Опубликовано: 6 май 2017
- *For those of you expecting to see an Anglo-Saxon History Visualised*:
I'm afraid after Friday's Livestream I've lost my voice so I couldn't record the next Anglo-Saxon History Visualised. However I had recorded this before so I hope you'll enjoy this one anyway.
Finally back with another video in the Pictish Ancient Culture Analysis series. In today's episode I'll be looking at the Ogham writing system, part II of which will be uploaded next week.
Pictish Cultural Analysis:
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Music:
Lost Frontier - Kevin MacLeod
Dhaka - Kevin MacLeod
Past the Edge - Kevin MacLeod
Echoes of Time - Kevin MacLeod
Rites - Kevin MacLeod
"Rites" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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Dun means fort so Dundee means fort on the dee
Thanks for clarifying this!
The river Dee is in Aberdeen. Dundee is about 70 miles away. The Dee part of Dundee is thought to come from the Celtic/gaelic dè meaning fire and as said before Dun means fort.
Would "dun" have the same meaning in Ireland? There's a place close to where I live called Dundonald, is that the "fort of Donald" then?
Pianissimo It literally means 'Donall's stronghold' so essentially yes.
A better translation would be 'Scumdee'
My dad would have loved this! He was born in Scotland and spoke often of the Celts and the Picts. I was raised on the knee of this history and Scottish history in general. In my thirties I sold everything and moved to the UK and had to leave due to a death. I never made it back and it was truly home. I desperately miss home.
@Rad Derry Ok liberal. You go throw your ancestry in the trash can but i won't.
@Rad Derry Ye its something communists and rightist call people when they say something they dont like. It doesnt nessecarilly have to be so that your a libtard but man, dont forget your culture. Its important to know your heritage.
Your not the only one that was spoon fed this stuff from the cradle. So whut.
You used alot of words to say ...you miss scotland.
Come back please
Dun is an ancient Celtic word for fortress. Lyon, France is in Gallic, Lugdunensis, is the fortress of Lugh. In Irish, Donegal is Dun -na,-Gal, which means fortress of the foreigner. In Scotland Edinburgh in Goedelic is Dun -Aedin, (fortress of -Aedin Magauran). The name Oggham is from the Pre-Christian "Lord of knowledge"-Ogma.
Interesting..
Did you also know about a people called the picts in France that had to run away after political persecution..
The remit was to demonize words and the picts were demonized just prior to these people in Scotland being called the picts..
Also the word pict sounds like the word for ancients..
As for the symbols in the stones.. many of these represent geometric solutions to keep lines parallel and how to kind of square the circle by using cresents, circles and squares in a ratio system..
If you understand this above fact then you have to wonder about how the symbols look exactly like the masonic symbol.. so if we say the last picts existed around 900 ad.. and Robert the bruce was around 100 years later and loved by many and we have his allegory of the spider... its sounds like a wonderful conspiracy..
Isn't Briga the name for fortress and Dun/Dūnom for stronghold in Proto-Celtic??
Your entire series on the Picts has been wonderfully informative. I am fascinated by the Picts and this time period, and I learned so much from your videos. Thank you!
Thanks for this content, I'm a galician boy in love with celtic culture and nowadays I'm studying english, this videos are the best way to improve my listening :)
I'm reading abot the celtic culture and of course the Druids and is addictive, 😍😍😍, Thanks a lot for sharing this information.
you should finish this series on the pics it's really well put together it would be a shame not to finish your work. thanks for the information so far . i subbed
You bring up how Catholicism was like a sponge and the cultures that were converted would incorporate paganism with it. This reminds me of our current holidays like Christmas, Halloween and Easter which still have pagan symbolism. You should make a video on these, it would be pretty neat.
DoubleDee Halloween was an ancient Celtic festival called Samhain that the Irish sorta spread
I agree. He said Catholicism is 70% Christian now but was 70% pagan then. I think it is still 70% pagan. Just a bit better disguised or we dont know enough of our pagan heritage
I thought everyone knew this already. 🙄
The paganism behind these holidays is a bit overstated IMO, although it's still there.
Manx is still spoken. According to UNESCO it it remains a dead language since the last native speaker died in the 1970s. I have read somewhere that he recorded feverishly with scholars at the end of his life, and only about an estimated 80% of the language was recorded if I remember correctly. They are reconstructing the rest of it from Gaelic and Old Norse (the parent languages) last I read. All of this is if my memory serves me correctly.
Absolutely love these videos on the more niche and mysterious topics. Also the less so are never covered much on other RUclips channel. This channel is brilliant hope you keep going and have enthusiasm for it because it's great and I've learnt so much about my ancestors from it! Thank you!
Hilbert, no word of a lie, I once asked about Ogham on one of your recent videos. I had no idea you'd made this but finally getting around to researching it (which I tend to do after watching many of your post) this was recommended.
As always, a great video and extremely informative.
I can't believe I haven't found your channel until recently, really like the content and delivery. Subscribed and looking forward to more videos.
Thanks for all your videos :) I'm only a recent subscriber and I was so excited to see this one about Ogham pop up! I love Pictish history.
Greetings from across the pond. Thank you for posting these videos. I'm finding them fabulously interesting.
I freaking love these videos about ancient Europe please keep making them 👍
"Fun with the Picts" sounds like a great band name!
Already been done... in a way.
The song "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Grooving with a Pict" by Pink Floyd on their album "Ummagumma".
@@Tipi_Dan I know that song very well; my first ever vinyl album was "Ummagumma" which I bought in Belfast in around 1971 during my very brief carreer as a sailor ;)
Oh and btw, i think the full title is "Several Species Of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together In A Cave And Grooving With A Pict."
Just "Fun with Picts"
I'm a bit of a history freek, I love all histories. Anyway, I like your analogies and comparison I get them. I'm Irish also. ✊☘️
Watching this video with a cup of tea.
Ah nice! I've been necking a lot of tea with honey in an attempt to get my voice back xD
History With Hilbert As a suggestion could you do a video about the English civil war in the 1600s. Don't think many people know a lot about it. Thanks if you consider it.
I don't know if you mentioned it in your video but in Welsh, the word for 'zigzag' is 'igam ogam'. Considering that a zigzag is a series of angled lines and so is the Ogham language, one could infer that the similarities in appearance led to the similarities in name. Could just be a coincidence of course.
Iolo Cowell the name comes from the Irish god Ogma or from Og-úaim like in the video
Any idea why he gives his name to zigzags in Welsh?
Ogma gave scripture to humans, scripture looks like zigzags? :v
Fascinating! Thanks!
Ogham is not a "language", it's an ALPHABET, which was used to write Celtic languages (plural).
this is a great channel hilbert. very honest and good work
Interesting. So much is shrouded in the darkness of time. I appreciate the "flash light" you shed, even though the light's penetration is limited . Thanks for posting.
Videos and rambling are like tea and scones . . . enjoyable.
I like keeping this content in one or two long videos. As a new arrival at the channel, knowing you have a Picts series makes me to hunting for them all and I'm still not sure I found the whole set, while finding the Gauls video was easy. I do love how much more content this series has, though; maybe 2-3 one-hour-long videos I can settle into when I have the time might be ideal.
my brain is gone but my eyes work. thank yew for giving me something to blankly stare at. take care gare
Mac=son
MacDonald/McDonald. Son of Donald/Donal.
O' = Grandson of.
O'Brien/O'Connor etc.
Nee =daughter
Maire Nee Bhrian (Ni)
Mary daughter of Brian.
Used now in standard English to denote a married lady's maiden name ie
Mrs Ann Garvey Nee Walsh.
(Ann , wife of Garvey, daughter of Walsh)
Sorry Martin. 'Nee' for a maiden name is actually French. Née means 'born'.
I always thought O' means more "descendant of"
@@sortastrategy6613 That's what I was told. My surname means Descendant of Nèill or Cloud in old irish.
O’ just means Of, not specific to Grandson.
@@xotan The Irish for daughter is iníon. So Ní is like an abbreviation
Your videos are awesome. I recon I've watched 5 hours plus of them over the last few days. Keep this up, get Patreon. Genuinely my favourite youtube at the moment.
Holy cow I am inspired to go learn to write in Ogham. I'm only one-eighth Irish and one-eighth Scottish but I am feeling it!
This was really good. Youre amazing. Please do more culture/language videos. Have you considered doing prehistoric cultures? Yamnaya, neolithic farmers, stone age hunter gatherers?
You could pull it off!
A agree
So glad I randomly stumbled across this channel a couple weeks ago. T'was a quick sub, no regrets.
Update ❤
This was really interesting and I agree I'd love a podcast like this!
My family originate from Tyrone in Ireland.
I discovered yesterday in my families book past down from generation to generation a page with this Ogham rune.
After a load of research and a couple of phone calls later I discovered that it read O'Neil my family name. However I later discovered that O'Neil literally means descendant of Nèill or cloud.
I'm currently learning the Ogham symbols and old irish language to kinda return to my routes if you will. I'm finding that the pronunciation is strangely similar to Icelandic. Pretty cool right 👍
Well, didn't the Icelanders take Irish women? Then the next generations would be raised speaking Irish accent Icelandic. Just an idea
@@lauridscm1 I believe so. Irish monks and merchants settled on the southern tip of Iceland so there'd be men and women.
I've done a ancestry DNA test and I have one relative over there so judging by that I'd say your bang on correct. However there is no Irish accent over in Iceland, that may be due to isolation and time. The Norse settlers were more prominent.
Love ya shows and education shows bruh. Keep it up.
Thank You.
You have done us a great service
I come back to you now at the Turn of the Tide.
There’s a Pictish Ogham carving revealing the word “Uuract”’ ‘to make’.
That’s at Burian, Orkney.
Defend you beliefs!!!
OMG, I can't wait for the next video... Fascinated!! Thank you for all the great information. Waiting on bated(sp?) breath.... :)
Nice video as always. U have a very good voice for history explaining
What about the “knot-work” art and the developing of the “Celtic crosses”??
Other youtubers say those are very Anglo-Saxon. I think it was Survive the Jive.
@@MrGalpino ……The Angles, Saxons, and Jutes were def influenced by and made my great variations on the knot work art for sure. I think, and it is just my opinion, that all of the cultures that arrived in Briton, by the Roman period and after, had a hand in the evolution of the art. The Romans would have def known interlacing and knot work as it also appeared in the ancient Near/Middle East and beyond. Ancient Briton/Archaic Briton and Ireland also show signs of some type of cultural exchanges with possible Egypt as there are some symbols too close to be coincidence and cultural contacts with the pre-Celtic cultures and North Africa being more than surmised at this point in our historical data.
Love love love love your videos!!!!
I can't keep up but the pronunciation humility is refreshing. Thanks
Love this series. Makes me want to use ogham in my DnD campaign try and get the party to decipher it.
This language looks simple, but oddly pretty. It reminds me of morse code - not dots and dashes, but number of slashes and orientation of the slashes. How cool.
Now there's a thought.. they had a war horn/trumpet called a carnyx. As it's played, tongue in the head of the trumpet can be clacked up and down, to make certain sounds and patterns. From what I understand, it was for intimidating the enemy and giving certain commands in battle, but I wonder if they could use it to send messages across the battleground in a "morsecode" fashion?
Might be a massive reach, but I guess it could be used in such a way.
@@paulmitchell5544 A lot of the ancients were a lot smarter than we give them credit for. Like they say there is nothing new under the sun.
Really appreciate your work mate, thanks 😁
Would love to see those other videos on the picts you had planned as well!
Found you through Kevins old english channel. Excellent job on your videos. I definitely will be following along with yours as well.
I really enjoyed this one. Look forward to the flesh of the bone. Thanks.
I love these videos, keep it up!
Cheers Opi, thanks for watching!
Excellent. Love your channel.
Fascinating, thank you.
This is wonderful. I love the richness of detail. Will there be a Part 2, about symbolic and magical meanings? Fingers crossed.
Great video! Learned so much.
I am loving the Pict series.
LOVED this video!
Dear History with Hilbert
I was wondering if u have any videos about the Austrian (& Swiss) Celts? I'm very interested in how the Celtic cultures there emerged and how it changed into Germanic speaking. From Hallstatt to LaTéne. Also I find it interesting the Raetian culture/language that existed in Austria before/alongside(?) the Celtic.
The Celts were pushed out of what is now Austria, Germany, and Switzerland by the Teutons (Germanic people).
@@allisonshaw9341 😎
You have Orkney and Shetland mixed up on your map!
Did you know Aberdeen's prefix ABER is 'common Britannic' and old Welsh, meaning 'between' in Aberdeens case it's between the rivers Dee and Don.
In Wales today there are places begining with ABER, example Aberystwyth.
You pronounced North/South Usit correctly but along with the Isle of Lewis they form the Outer Hebrides, where as Skye being the largest of the 11 Isles that form the Inner Hebrides.
brythonic,p celtic,spoken allover britain,eg,galloway,galwegia,meaning foreign gael.
Isn't that supposed to be North/South 'Uist'? - in West Hollywood , CA 90046 here.
Aber means mouth of the river.
@Rad Derry Caledonians spoke Cumbric a related language to Welsh, irish spoke Gaelic, scots came from Ulster....
No, it doesn't mean "between", it means; the mouth of a river/an estuary.
Thankyou love your work
Looking forward to part 2
This is fascinating! Thank you! I've always been fascinated by Ogham script. You've truly shown a lot of insight into it. Abbreviations were extremely common in Roman inscriptions, as well - names, titles, there was even a symbol for a freed slave. Greetings from the US from someone whose native language is Yiddish, and who's married to someone whose native language is Irish Gaelic! (You can imagine our fights LOL)
You're both rare nowadays! I'm both Jewish and Scottish (one parent each) and I don't know anyone who has Yiddish as a first language or Scottish Gaelic, although I do know people who are trying to learn one or the other out of a desire to connect with their heritage and make sure the languages don't die out. I'd really like to learn Yiddish but I have hella ADHD and my brain does not want to absorb information at all right now.
@@AM-kr4pv LOL My son's fiancee is from Salonika; part of their marriage contract is that their kids will speak Yiddish and Ladino - THEN Hebrew. I'm learning Ladino for her
@@SgtRocko that's really cool and also lovely that you're learning Ladino for your future daughter in law! I'm glad your family has a dedication to keeping these languages alive. I reckon Ladino has even less attention on it than either Yiddish or Gaelic, I know so little about it.
Wow! I just discovered you! Sometimes the algorithm gives fruit! Thank you! 😊
Awesome info, thank you!
Thanks for watching Warren!
Patrick was from possible from Cumbria. The place Aspatria near Carlisle, means Patrick's ash. It's very close to the coast, and possibly his birth place.
Vry interesting. Thank you well done.
Thank you for the inspiring and interesting video.
Seeing norse runes by ogham, it occured to me that most runes have vertical stroke in the middle. Could it be that they also begun as ogham-like way of writing, and where later broken into individual characters for convenience and space utilization?
Second point, chiselling ogham on an edge of a stone automatically brings more readability, because chisel cannot slip and make one sided stroke into something between one sided and two sided grapheme. That implies that edge-writing is perhaps older than writing on a common carved line, and latter was maybe introduced because there would be more space on a flat face of a stone, while the number of edges on any given megalith is rather limited. The symbols for start and end of sentence could be interpreted as stylized pictures of vertices where three faces meet (top and bottom points of an edge, respectively).
Third point, these are all phonetic scripts, yet they are completely abstract, strokes do not attempt to picture any object, like original Phoenician alphabet did, but instead aim to make a number of differing combinations made of few primitives. It is sort of like if Chinese would had made script out of I Ching symbols, rather than from stylized icons.
Anyway, this is probably a peek into an ancient Stone Age culture heritage which survived Iron Age and even up to early Middle Ages.
Your point about abbreviation is very accurate, for example the Afforsk stone in Aberdeenshire is written “Nxton Rx” which appears to be short hand for “Nexton Rix (pronounced Nechton Rich)” meaning King Nechton.
The interesting thing about the Afforsk stone is, based on the language it could be argued it is early Pictish which split from common Brythonic around the 2nd century which would mean that Ogham could be found in Pictland earlier than in Ireland, it’s also possible however that Old Pictish was kept on as a ceremonial language while middle and late Pictish was spoken by the people.
The problem is that Ogham can be found on unworked, Type 1 Pictish stones which due to new archaeological evidence have been moved back in date from between the 1st century and the 6th century, which could put Ogham in Pictland before known Ogham in Ireland.
Concerning Christianity (at least in eastern Pictland) it can be estimated that the population wasn’t fully converted to Christianity until the early 10th century as you hear records of missionaries making multiple return trips to secure the church right up until the 900s and a lost Gaelic saga describes the Kingdom of Ce being destroyed in order to cement a central Gaelicised Christian power over the last free Pictish kingdoms.
Love it man, an-ṁaiṫ ar fad. If yoy could do an in depth comparison of the Irish, Pictish and Futhark it'd be brilliant. This video has lots of good stuff, thanks!
Hey there, enjoy your work pal, your videos are very good. As an Irish national I am delighted you pronounce "Ogham" correctly. I have an assumption that when you take the translation to English and get "Point Seem" it more refers to the centre line as the "seem" and the branching lines are the "points" along the seem. Just a theory I have. The word "Dun" mean a fortified place. One more theory for you. In the areas in the South West of Ireland that I am familiar with that are hot spots for Ogham stones all appear to be accessible by water and connected to the sea. Which might explain the lack of Ogham stones in certain areas of Scotland.
Og-úaim, pronounced... Oh-wem
I will be your correspondant for pronunciation of Irish. Just let me know what you need me to do. And set it up. Beautiful work as always 👏 ❤️ 👌
braw video, looking forward to part two
Excellent
hello,
Thanks for the video. Is the part 2 coming one day ?
"I'm going to toon (town)" can be said "I'm going to dún", they are cognates as far as I'm aware.
Darling this audience is not able to acknowledge cognates....your intellect and knowlege are at waste here.
Thanks man keep it up
Have you made a video on Medieval Latin or do you have any tips about the best way to learn it at all? (I've got to learn it for my Medieval History MA). Any tips would be greatly appreciated, thanks
Where is part 2??? I can't find it anywhere!
H was used as a Séamhú or softener..it was shown as a point over the consonant to soften it. We only used H's for about 90 years in writing. Gaelic script was beautiful and it was a mistake to change it but typewriters took over..
Forgot to say... A very good video though bro! Keep up the very good work!
The H and dot were used interchangeably up until the 16th century in manuscripts until the dot was standardised, then the H was brought back circa 1950.
Loved it
One is in the British Museum in London, a standing stone with Ogham Script found in Co. Cork 1826 Deelish township,the stone is fine grained red sandstone 380 million years old.
I'm from Ireland (County Wexford). I studied Celtic Civilisations in university, and now I am living in the Pictish capital of Fife in Markinch, Scotland. You mentioned sharing your sources. Where might I find them?
You should learn about the Irish cruitini
So basically here's a suggestion...venture to study the history outside ur own land and see what they teach. It's like you have a biased education. Nothing to boast about. Like you come out of the shoot firing ur credentials but the punchline is they closed bias. Wow. Why is ignorance so bold?
Ogham was a numerical cypher, so its use is similar to morse code or semaphore. They were using it to get round a taboo against actual writing. Correspondences to letters like Q and Z suggest that the system may have originally been designed to represent something other than Old Irish.
Excellent thank you
Thank you!
Your pronunciation is great.
Damn dude...you deserve more likes.
@History With Hilbert Did you ever do a part 2 on this? I tried to so some searching on your channel and haven't found anything as of yet. and it's been 4 years lol
Moar information on all the things!
Always moar
Love the Picts
Many languages also use optional vowels in certain texts. Orthodox Christian Greek, some forms of Slavic languages and some formats of Arabic come to mind
Part 2? This was really interesting.
GH in Scotland and Ireland is not silent as in English but in the Irish lough or the word aught which the Scots would pronounce ocht.I assume ogham would be Aucham.Even in old English or Anglo Saxon gh is a slightly softer version of the ch sound .
I think one of the Stones says "Heavenly Haggis Pub ahead, don't forget to bring Beer and Haggis!". Jugging by the Wry Humor about those parts, it makes sense. TY for content.
Nice video, thanks a lot! :)
Even in the ancient languages whose words we can decipher (i.e. Latin or Greek) we can still miss the meaning of the sentences because they speak in jargon once understood but long forgotten. In the song Convoy from the 70s, he speaks in CB talk. One line mentions bears in the air. We know it means a police helicopter but in 1,000 years it would be considered fantastical because bears don't fly.
impressive video
the live stream was fun p.s. great video
Thanks Stefán, it was good to see you there! I think we're going to be doing livestreams each Friday :)
:)
Robert Graves book the white goddess, does a lot of background in bardic tradition, the language of trees, but he himself said it became more poetic than historical, but its a hell of a read just for the ammount of research he put into it.
and no scholar of the material would suggest his book. The vast majority of his "research" is easily debunkable or made up whole cloth
Very interesting
Wat is het eerste liedje wat je gebruikt? Kan het niet vinden in de beschrijving. Goeie video trouwens! Erg interresant al die geschiedenis.
Scotti meaning pirate might very well be the case, but seems more reasonable to assume it's a Romanised version of Is Cottaidh (or 's Cottaidh) meaning "We are the multitude of Cot"., with the Cot or Cat being a tribe.
Maybe the Cot / Cat were Gaelicised Picts, i.e/ Cruithin, in Ulster. The Cruithin territory was around Dal Riata in Antrim.
'Dun' as in Dundee means 'fort'.
I think on the Maiden Stone, the inscription IRATADDOARENS might contain the Latin word "ERAT" which appears in the Book of Kells which was likely written at Iona
Was there ever a part 2 video about the ogham alphabet you referenced @1:18 ?