DIY Ultrasonic Cleaner Follow up: Foil Tests
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- The first follow up of my DIY ultrasonic cleaner video. In this video I respond to some of the comments with a few practical demonstrations of the cleaner efficiency.
Many thanks to Jay from the House of Moth for his help with some of the experiments.
The House of Moth RUclips channel:
/ @thehouseofmoth
Original video:
• Building my own Ultras...
Second follow up video:
• Building my own Ultras...
#UltrasonicCleaner #Hobby #DIY
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/ branchuscreations
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Tools/Products used (paid links):
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Oh my, the spinning chair gag - love it!
I am glad your channel showed up I am really interested in what else is to come
Thank you!
Hello Bruce! My name is Nercy I have a RUclips channel about repairing televisions and amplifiers and I am getting ready to assemble my 600W ultrasonic washing machine using 12 50W transducers and my concern was how to fix the transducers, and looking on the internet I found your channel that will help me a lot, because I had many doubts that I managed to clarify by watching your videos, I know that when the assembly starts, other doubts will appear. if you can watch the videos and give your opinion, a big hug from Brazil.
Great work. Also it should be noted that the issue of constructive/destructive interference is directional. If there is a destructive interference created somewhere, there is always constructive interference created somewhere else.
I'm starting to wonder if maybe I should build one of these. I particularly like the use of the stainless steel food vat. Creative.
At my workplace we use a 1000 liter ultrasonic cleaner. The thing has 48 transducers with frequency sweep.
They would have to be exactly the same frequency and in opposite phase in order for them to cancel out. This would be hard enough to do deliberately with just two; it would be exponentially more difficult to accomplish with 8. You will get random amounts of destructive interference, but you'll also get random amounts of CONstructive interference, more or less balancing out.
which is why drive freq is swept.
Great video!!! Thank you. Looking forward to the next installment.
Excellent followup!
Excellent video and looking forward to your next video!!
Far from cancelling, the addition of another pair of transducers should theoretically double the acoustic impedance and end up not doubling the power but quadrupling it! In your speaker example adding the second speaker actually produces twice the Sound Pressure Level. You get 3dB extra from the new speaker (another unit of power added) AND you get 3dB added because the whole thing is now twice as efficient. Those two add up to producing the doubling of output SPL we measurably get.
This relies on the outputs being in phase, which won't necessarily be the case with 40kHz having a wavelength of 3.7cm in water. (1480m/s being the speed of sound - v = F x Lambda). It also might be that they are using 20kHz square waves to create lots of 40kHz 2nd harmonic components, so you might want to get 20kHz in phase too. Assuming the speed isn't affected by the steel tub (and that the transducers are effectively point sources, which I somewhat doubt) then a spacing of 7.4cm might be optimum. Or it might make no difference at all because the whole thing is a diffuse sound field. I do a bit of work in this area and I'm afraid I have no idea which is more likely - but it would make a great A Level physics project! Sadly the manufacturers won't care because it'll be all about how many Watts they can advertise, not how efficiently that power is deployed.
>1480m/s speed of sound (in water); I suppose the cleaning is done in isopropyl instead. The speed is lower ~1200m/s
Wouldn't it only cancel it out if the sound waves were exactly the same and one was inversed? I just don't see this being probable until you have a ton of transducers working at the same time and I don't think the effect would be noticeable on a diy project. Probably a worry for an electrical engineer working with extremely large industrial tanks the size of a pond.
great video demo's :)
Looking to follow up on understanding faults and new drivers . Cheers. Laurie Melbourne OZ
I suspect it's Big Aluminum that's goading you in the comments to do all these experiments with aluminum foil 😀
But seriously, nicely done experiments!
invite me over when you cook that chicken!
Collapsing bubbles or cavitation
Cause temp up 10m degrees
Love this series of videos! Thanks for sharing :)
Did you end up making a second follow up video like, you said?
I'm working on it right now. I have a couple things coming from China for me to show a few practical tests for the video, but it shouldn't be too much longer.
I didn't know that ultra sonic cleaners were so destructive. I guess strong agitation is needed to clean off flux etc.
I certainly wouldn't recommend them for cleaning tinfoil.
@@BranchusCreations so does the cleaner have any real affect on the items you actually clean, whether that be a motherboard or a carburetor? Or is this just not a concern in the real world?
the cancelling theory can be valid, but it depends on the natural frequency of the panel of the tank that they are attached to, and where they are attached, as they can amplify the postive response deflected area of the panel, or actuate on the parts of the panel that are negatively deflecting, and therefore commensurately acting to restrain against the positive deflection of the other part of the panel. This is very specific to specific frequency, panel dimensions and material grades and thickness. Hence a sweeping frequency is an easy 'fix'.
so when is the next vid about drivers etc going to be as its been months now!!
thanks for these demonstrations... i am starting to conclude now that the benefit of the more expensive 'true sweep' is merely to either be able to use fewer number of transducers to get a broader coverage area. or otherwise to increase overall effective power / make a stronger performance over that same volume of liquid.
but coming back to your diy and these cheap chinese design... it feels like maube there could perhaps be some simple and much cheaper way to effectively make a 'fake' sweeping behaviour. that is to say maybe not actually a true sweep? but instead if our transducers are randomly and slowly drifting in and out of phase with each other. than that should also be moving about the standing wave patterns in the liquid and give a similar sort of result
this is then cheaper to implement in the electronics than crest's true sweep design.
so coming back to your video here, it seems like your diy machine is already doing this? for example if you can hook up a 4 channel oscilloscope to the terminals of 4 of those 8 transducers. and capture the relative phase. to see a drift, and that they are not solidly phase locked to each other
could this be due to the design having multiple seperate driver boards? such that each board does not be in sync with the other driver boards? ie each has their own clock source? and the 1 driver board can only drive (at most?) 1 pair of tranaducers? then maybe it would make sense not to have those connecte pairs of transducers located on the sam column. but physically positioned further away from each other. such that they are too far away for the power in the generated waves to have any much power left in the wave by the time they do meet each other and additively make the interference pattern. by that distance it becomes a completely neglible affect
so if am not mistaken here (and indeed it is worthy to investigate independantly, and not just assume i am correct, its just a theory to me!). but if this can be verified then then would be great to confirm. so that we can all have more clear and solid reasons for why the belief that there is no need for a 'real' or 'true sweep" function. that it just simply is never necessary
for example, in situation where the board has potentialy 'unknown' and perhaps either dellicate, or bustable, or 'finite lifetime' mems sensors that might stand any chance of getting damaged. fwiw it does not seem to be the case that mems sensors are so delicate anymore in mass produced modern day equipment (such as smartphones etc). they must have just kept on improving them over the years. so only if you were oh idk... trying to repair a really old devices, or if it was some specialist equipment such as scientific experiments. or whatever else very special like some medical device or a military device. IDK. i am just rambling now.
anyhow good video! as you can tell, it really has provided a better insight for me as a viewer. and those insights cannot be obtained without your more rigorous facts based approach.
it also makes me a but more curious if i were to buy some random cheap chinese ultrasonic cleaner(s). and of different sizes (2 4 6 or 8 transducer layout).... then if we open it up to actually see what is the number of driver boards in it. (that they did not take shortcuts and daisy chain all 6 transducer from the same 1 single driver board). and if the wiring configuration inside for the relative positioning of those transducer pairs was in fact already properly optimized. in case not all the chinese who are putting these together as kits fully understand such situation, if it in fact matters? so if there is any meaningful benefit to me as a consumer, to bother to open the cleaner after purchasing it. and check for myself. (but that all also depends if in those speculation it actually matters or not, to make a meaningful difference, and perhaps, or perhaps not). hehe
You will still get standing waves no matter what you do considering the speed of sound in a liquid and the small size (comparitively) of the tank.
So, even with swept frequency, you will get standing waves unless you can pulse single cycles of significantly varying frequencies.
But, what does this even do ?
The answer is - Bugger all. You only need to move the item being cleaned a small amount to negate any standing waves - but then, is it even worth it ?
My thought is that no, it won't materially make a difference. It is the result that counts - if it works as desired - test concluded successfully.
End of story, end of test.
Proceed to clean !
You will always get "experts" who are not, that are willing to pass on their expertise at no cost to themselves except to flaunt their ego.
The results matter.
If it works as expected, and desired, why fix what ain't broke ?
Greetings and Happy New Year from Warwick, Queensland.
Is the video out already where the fix for the failing controllers is mentioned?
Great content. Where did you got the Piezo's?
Best Regards from Austria
I have been looking at these food serving trays and have found a 2/1 size, i.e. double size. Not deep but would be great for server boards etc. My current cleaner holds about 2 pints, fine for duinos etc. but you know , bigger better more eh?
I will have the studs welded to the tray though. I don't think glue is the way forward, however the next vid may say otherwise.
My next follow up will be doing some strength tests with different adhesion methods.
@@jonWilk8156 I'll be showing a few other custom builds in my next video. I have a picture of one here with 240 large transducers attached. Crazy stuff!
@@jonWilk8156 don't worry, your reply didn't come off like that at all. Thanks for watching!
Hello, i'm planning on installing a valve on mine, to drain the fluids, like the ones they use on brewers, do you think it would disturb the operation of the cleaner? And if no, would you give me any suggestions on how to do it?
Hey Bruce. I have a question to ask you . I have a coooper cooler for sodas and it doesnt work correctly. It powers up but when you run it , it shuts off . Could I replace the board with just and on switch to just run everything at once ? Oh and it's brand new. The company said they tested it before they sent it which is a lie
Bruce can I put an analog board in ultrasonic cleaner? Do I need to remove anything before doing it? More so I have the board for a composite color monitor that is real bad and want to clean it.
Whoever mentioned that they thought the damage to the foil was due to "standing waves" has no idea how ultrasonics work. You even mentioned in your first video that it was due to cavitation and the bubbles collapsing...
I don't really understand why people think they need to be arbitrarily contradictory in the comments section. Unless you actually are an expert on the subject matter, just say "cool video" and move on with your life. 🤦♂️
It will only decrease your efficiency if you hook up some of your transducers in a reverse polarity as the other ones so for example you take 8 transducers and hook them up like 4 with + to + and the other 4 + to - so the polarity and also the phase of the last 4 will now be 180° out of phase to the other ones.
Oh, for a moment there I thought you were going to place a chicken in your ultrasonic cleaner as one of your experiments.. then the video ended..
You need to dust the chicken with some diatomaceous clay
Your intro music is really loud.
I don't doubt but the video has several cuts.
Hi can we use for retro bright ?
well been over 2 months now and still no follow up on the drivers etc,poor show!
Yes, it's taken far longer than expected. Lots of testing, lots of waiting for parts, lots of problems, lots of solutions. Thankfully the follow up is nearly finished and will provide lots of answers!