A month ago I became aware of predestination and election while studying the Bible. It honestly scared me because I immediately thought of my loved ones. What if they're not chosen? My children? I wept. I couldn't bear the thought of it. I couldn't eat for over a day. I was distraught. But I couldn't fight against what Words were in front of me. (Paul was ready to give an answer to every objection we'd have.) Did not Paul weep knowing that his brothers (fellow Jews) were cast off (not completely, of course)? Isn't it our immediate reaction to think of others before ourselves? Paul said that if he could he would rather he be cast off and his fellow Jews be saved. That's the way most people see it from. They think of their loved ones not being chosen and not the fact that God graciously chose them. I tried to view things from the other stand point but nothing could stand up to Scripture. I vowed to skip reading Romans. It was a stumbling block. Everything I'd ever known wasn't true. I wanted to live in la la land. But I went to church which I hadn't been to in several weeks. What do you think we were assigned to read? The book of Romans. I told God that He would have to force me to believe it and to comfort me in it. So here I am. A believer in predestination and election. No more fear in it. I actually pray more for my loved ones. I am more determined and renewed in teaching my 6 and 4 year old about God's Word. I prayed God would give my mom a desire for His Word and shortly after my mom told me she was reading her Bible again. One thing I want to add is that anyone who argues against Calvinism never take on Romans 8-9. I wanted to believe in Arminianism but the arguments were weak. My aunt, who doesn't believe in the Calvinism view, told me to rest in the Lord and to ask the Holy Spirit to reveal it to me. I fought the truth. I mocked the truth. (I asked for forgiveness many times). But was able to embrace it. I feel like Kevin from Home Alone, "I'm not afraid anymore!" People who disagree with the doctrine of election I know your objections. I also had them (many of them). I know where you are coming from. I fought it for weeks but was determined to come out with the truth. It's not as scary as you think. Like Pastor Jeff said the saved cannot be numbered and Abraham's promise was that the promised seed (not all Israel is Israel) was as numbered as the stars and the grains of sand. You can't number either. It's not as hopeless as you think (as I thought). Be encouraged. And you preached it in a gracious way. I have listened to others speak about it and be totally condescending towards the opposing views. Don't you people get it?! We fight/fought it because we are scared of our loved ones not being chosen! And I applaud you for ending it on a high note. A lot of people tend to think that the number of those chosen is so few but we are as numbered as the stars. Thank you! I have left more encouraged and comforted with this sermon. I cried at the end of this because my brother is an atheist and I have been praying for a while that God would open his eyes and unharden his heart. For you to repeat those words of opening others eyes gave me so much peace. Jesus didn't tell us to keep bugging the Judge and knocking on our neighbors door for no reason (Luke 18). I will pound that door down for those I love. And God will get all the glory.
And I wouldn't label myself as a Calvinist. Just that I believe those He foreknew He predestined. Chosen before the foundation of the world. I believe Christ's blood covers only the sins of those who believe which I think is what both limited atonement and non limited atonement believers believe. They disagree on how far it reaches but both can agree it covers only those who believe.
Heather Hines I'm happy to report that my brother is no longer an atheist! I never expected it to happen so soon. He sought the Lord when he was concerned for his girlfriend. And God responded to him by leading him to a verse. Thank you, Lord! Anyone reads this DO NOT LOSE HEART. Be persistent in prayer. Lean not on your own understanding. Trust in Him.
I am finding myself to be a full blown Calvinist in a cage on an island. Praise be to God, I'm not worthy but He loved me first... I just can't wrap my head around why. My eyes have been opened so much more.
If a child of God approaches The Word of God ( Scriptures) prayerfully with a humble heart and a teachable spirit, expecting to learn, I am 100% convinced that that's exactly what will happen by the leading of The Spirit...
I did that. He showed me beyond a shadow of a doubt that Calvinism is 100% false. Calvinists are heretics who do not and CANNOT preach the Gospel of Christ. I can talk to any person on the planet and tell them "Christ died for your sins." They CAN'T do that, because they think Christ only died for the elect. The best they can do is "Christ MAY HAVE died for your sins, if you were chosen before the foundation of the world". Which, by the way, was NEVER SAID by any of the apostles. They ALL preached the true gospel of Christ. Calvinists make them out to be liars because there are several times in scripture when the apostles share the gospel with people who reject it. So apparently Christ DIDN'T die for those people's sins, and the aposles have lied. There is no Gospel in calvinism. There is no good news for anyone! If someone isn't elect, then Christ's death doesn't matter! And if someone IS elect, Christ's death STILL doesn't matter. They were already secure before Christ ever did anything. 1 Corinthians 15.1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: Galatians 1.8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. If anyone believes the "gospel of election" they're going straight to hell like a bullet.
Here is absolute Biblical proof that God does NOT cause or determine everything; In Jeremiah 19:5 God says, “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I did NOT COMMAND or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.” and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it."
Only hope for the elect in which you will never be certain you are among the elect. So thus....a hopeless message Romans 12:18 Christian Standard Bible (CSB) 18 If possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Just found this verse for pas anthropos which means every individual 1 Timothy 2:4 Christian Standard Bible (CSB) 4 who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Here is absolute Biblical proof that God does NOT cause or determine everything; In Jeremiah 19:5 God says, “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I did NOT COMMAND or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.” and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it."
Here is absolute Biblical proof that God does NOT cause or determine everything; In Jeremiah 19:5 God says, “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I did NOT COMMAND or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.” and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it."
Andres LovesJesus If God has put a spell on you, to change your true nature of hate for Him, then is that really love? Like if someone used a date rape drug to get himself a wife who would have normally despised the guy. Is that love on her part? How about with God. If He made people guilty from conception based upon another man’s sin and then gives him a nature which necessarily must chose evil and hate good and could have never done otherwise, is that man a criminal or a victim? Is God throwing people into eternal damnation, whom God made guilty and kept guilty? Doesn’t Calvinism take away from the guilt of man, and place it on God? Am I missing something here?
I can give a biblical response to Compatibilism in Genesis 50 , Isaiah 10, acts 4 but I wanna get to the main point with u Brotha, and is the biblical teaching of Grace. For example I’m not obligated to wash your car but if I wash your car that will be an act of grace , same thing with God.God is not obligated to save no one but the very fact that he saves even one rebel sinner is an act of grace. so the doctrine of election and limited atonement defines what grace really is because grace to be grace must be absolutely free.
Andres LovesJesus Pro 16: 4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. What is the day of evil?.... Jer 17: 17 Be not a terror unto me: thou art my hope in the day of evil. 18 Let them be confounded that persecute me, but let not me be confounded: let them be dismayed, but let not me be dismayed: bring upon them the day of evil, and destroy them with double destruction. It is God’s judgement upon the nations. How does God implement His judgement?..... Isa 10: 5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation. Hab 1: 6 For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not theirs. God uses the wicked for carrying out His wrath on a nation. That’s all the Proverbs 16:4 is saying...... 2Tim 2: 20 ¶ But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 1Pe 2: 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. Why were some Jews appointed to disobedience?..... Eze 34: 20 ¶ Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD unto them; Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat cattle and between the lean cattle. 21 Because ye have thrust with side and with shoulder, and pushed all the diseased with your horns, till ye have scattered them abroad; 22 Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle. 23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. Mal 3: 16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. 17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. 18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not. Mal 4: 1 ¶ For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. 3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts. 4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments. 5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. God gave them all one last chance to repent through John the Baptist..... Mat 21: 31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. 32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him. So yes, the fat cattle and those who despised God were appointed to destruction. Those who feared Him would come to Christ and become His jewels. That’s why many of the Jews were hardened to prevent them from believing. They were of the fat cattle. Jude 1: 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. Same reason for this one with the last one. God bless
Andres LovesJesus Grace can be grace based upon a condition. So long as that condition doesn’t merit what is being given. Faith is not a meritorious act. It’s not a way of earning anything. Even fearing God is not worthy of salvation, but God can freely make His choice based upon these conditions if He so chooses. Wouldn’t you agree that He has the right to do that?
Brother Jeff, Grace, Peace, and LOVE. That was excellent, YHWH Did HIS Thing on that one and really put it down! Praise be to Our MIGHTY GOD, Magnifying YESHUA Ha-KADOSH MASHIAC, to the Glory of GOD The HOLY FATHER, by the Power n Adoption of The ALMIGHTY HOLY SPIRIT. Go get'em my Holy Cross-eyed Brethren, persevering and Keepin that rugged Bloody cross in one eye and that Majestic Bloody Mercy Seat or Throne of YHWH YESHUA in the other eye, for either way your eyes are on The Worthy HOLY LAMB.
Here is absolute Biblical proof that God does NOT cause or determine everything; In Jeremiah 19:5 God says, “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I did NOT COMMAND or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.” and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it."
If one believes Jesus accomplishes the exact same for ALL, and nothing more, this would mean that people, who end up in heaven, are not there because of what Jesus did... because... he accomplished the exact same, and nothing less, for those who end up in hell! This would mean that those who are in heaven are there because of something other than what Jesus accomplished! If this is true then Jesus does not save anyone! This would mean you are saved by “something other than Jesus”... if you end up in heaven!
"If anyone says that it is not in the power of man to make his ways evil, but that God produces the evil as well as the good works, not only by permission, but also properly and of himself, so that the betrayal of Judas is no less his own proper work than the vocation of Paul, let him be anathema.... If anyone shall say that the grace of justification is attained by those only who are predestined unto life, but that all others, who are called, are called indeed, but do not receive grace, as if they are by divine power predestined to evil, let him be anathema."-Council of Trent, Decree on Justification, cans. 6,17.
One verse may summarize the Doctrines of Grace, but I don't think one verse proves it. Just like no one verse disproves it. Because, most frequently, the anti-calvinist will take one verse out of its context, like John 3:16, and say "this proves Jesus died for the whole world" when actually it says no such thing, not even in context. What the verse said when written was not God sooooo loved the world, but God loved the world in this way... Nor does John 3:16 say a single thing about "who so ever will" I think it's the consistent message of the Scripture that teaches the Doctrines of Grace. Free-willers meanwhile tread dangerously close to Pelagian heresy.
@@blchamblisscscp8476 perhaps you can help me.... The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that ALL MEN through him might believe. John 1.7 That was the true Light, which lighteth EVERY MAN that cometh into the world. John 1.9 John 1.29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of THE WORLD. John 3.17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the WORLD through him might be saved. John 12.32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL MEN unto me. John 17.21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that THE WORLD may believe that thou hast sent me. Romans 5.18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon ALL MEN to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life. Romans 11.32 For God hath concluded them ALL in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon ALL. 1 Corinthians 15.22 For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive. 2 Corinthians 5.14-15 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died FOR ALL, then were all dead: And that he died FOR ALL, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. 1 Timothy 2.4-6 Who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for ALL, to be testified in due time. Hebrews 2.9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY MAN. 2 Peter 3.9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance. 1 John 2.2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD. 1 John 4.14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the WORLD. I have a sincere question for ANY CALVINIST willing to reply... Let's assume for just 2 seconds that Christ DID die for every last person on earth and "limited atonement" is false... just for 2 seconds.... ok?? I know you think he didn't, but IF he HAD.... IF Christ actually DID die for everybody.... how ELSE would you expect him to say it, other than EXACTLY how he said it??? Seriously.... IF limited atonement were false... what MORE could he say to get you to understand, other than EXACTLY what he said???
Oh, we can only be saved unless God draws us? Well, here is the answer to that: John 12: 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. Jesus draws ALL men.
@@rk5782 Jesus draws all men (Bible) but not all men are drawn to him (Bible)? So glad I don't have to change my mental landscape to sort out stuff like this...
A complete abuse of John 12:32 Jesus is speaking to the Greeks in this passage because they are concerned that only the Jews were only going to be saved. But Jeusus says no, he will draw all men to him. This verse is about Jews and Gentiles. How can you avoid universalism with that kind of exegesis?
@@6.0hhh "How can you avoid universalism with that kind of exegesis?" By citing other passages that contradict it. The Bible is the big book of multiple choice.
@@JMUDoc "The bible is a big book of multiple choice" So anyone can pick and choose what to believe? You need to be careful about how talk about the Word of God. God's Word isn't "multiple choice."
There are many things that I have learned that are not easily shared and can not be widely shared because so many are unable to receive, they stagnate in learning though fear of the enemy and believing that they have learned pretty much all there is, they have put restrictions on the Lord that should not be and shipwreck their Learning so that they can no longer grow. The Spirit doesn't miss lead us and when Jesus says, My sheep hear my voice it is a guarantee that we should trust in because He is leading us so we won't listen to any other voice. The commands of the Old Testament become promises to us E.g. You will not lie, you will not steal. This is the same as when our Lord said to the storm, be still or Lazarus come forth, His word cannot be denied, if He had said release Me, The Crucifixion would never have occurred, I hope my point is made. I am not trying to big note myself as none reading this would personally know me anyhow but too encouraged others that there is much much more too be known and it's yours for the asking and the effort on your part. I am nothing special just a fellow joyful slave of righteousness. If you are really born of The Spirit you can not possibly lose your Salvation so keep your eyes on ( Yeshua) our Lord Jesus and enjoy The Tremendous free gift that you have received...
Hasim Hodzic You say that we can’t lose our salvation. I don’t believe that’s what the scriptures teach.... 1Tim 5: 11 ¶ But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; 12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith. Heb 3: 6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. 7 ¶ Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. 11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) 12 ¶ Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; These are just two of dozens of passages that clearly say we can lose our salvation. We have life in Jesus. We’re in Jesus through faith. We must continue in Him to have life. That is to say we must be strong in the faith, steadfast unto the end. God bless
Jeff is a great Apologist and his love for Christ and evangelism is inspiring but this point in the Calvinistic doctrine couldn't be farther from what scripture actually says about who Christ died for. I cant imagine how self-righteous Calvinists feel when this topic comes up. 2 Corinthians 5:14-15 refutes this entire sermon
This Calvinist would say when you quote 2 Cor 5:14-15 in order to refute limited atonement, you are interpreting "all" to mean all mankind. So, in that way, you are saying there are people in hell for whom Chist died. A couple of problems with that: you must conclude Christ failed to complete the task for which he was sent by the Father; Christ was wrong when he said all whom the Father had given him would come AND of those who come he would lose none; and the Word of God did return to Him void as the Gospel failed to deliver whomever rejected Christ if all were called equally, all were atoned equally, and all had equal opportunity to repent. This it appears far from refuting a limited atonement but rather the verse is referring to the elect. Other uses of "all" and "world" are the whole world was to be taxed by Augustus, the whole world went out to see John, Paul and the apostles upset the whole world. What effect did any of the Gospels have on China at that time? Or South America? When did the Britons\Rus\Japanese start pay taxes to Rome? World and all are frequently used as hyperbole.
Alternatively, if universal atonement is true, but universal salvation false, that means Jesus makes all people legally innocent before God through the atonement, but God sends innocent people to hell merely for not knowing what his son did. Sending innocents to hell is far more monstrous than the worst caricature of Calvinism I've heard.
@@oracleoftroy Christ makes atonement AVAILABLE for all mankind. You can't see that because you're still holding onto your other false calvinist premises. You think unlimited atonement would make Jesus a failure because you ALSO believe in unconditional election and irresistible grace. Christ is not a failure in the bible because he doesn't force atonement upon anyone. Christ is only a failure to the Calvinist. Calvinists have no gospel.
@@kjvacp "Available"? So God killed his son to put a product out in the market of ideas? Besides, you make it sound like you believe in a limited atonement. The atonement is limited to those who produce in themselves a faith or belief that God looks on with partiality, and only then is the atonement actually applied. I limit the atonement based on holy and righteous God's decision, you limit it to fallen wicked man's decision. Either way, the atonement isn't universally applied.
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.- (2 Peter 3:9), “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”- (1 Timothy 2:4) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.-( 1 John 2:2)
Pastor Jeff, I love how you are preaching the word of God! One question. You’ve mentioned a couple of times in different sermons that people will be in Hell “one day”, implying that no one is in Hell now. Where in the Bible are you basing this? Would love to know. I thought people where currently in Hell based off of the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.
The main concept comes from Rev 20: 14. I understand that there are some interesting translations, and it doesn't help that English has it's own weird history that complicates matters. The idea is "lake of fire" == modern concept of hell, where death and hades are only cast in after the final judgement. But hell comes from the Old English hel, which is the place of the dead (which might be familiar if you've studied a bit of Norse theology), and is similar to (if not directly related to) Hades and somewhat similar to the Hebrew Sheol. I believe the KJV uses hell to mean the place of the dead before judgement, not in the modern sense as the final place of judgement / lake of fire.
The Five-Point Calvinist states that Christ died on the cross for the sins of the Elect. To say that He died for the sins of the Non-Elect is not reasonable. Since, according to their system, God has chosen some to be saved and chosen the rest to be lost, He cannot require the death of Christ for those He does not plan to save anyhow. Therefore, the atonement of Christ is limited to the Elect only. If you have accepted Total Inability and Unconditional Election it is necessary to limit the scope of Christ's death on Calvary. The only problem is that the Scriptures directly state that the death of Christ was for every man and is effective for the sinner the moment he believes. In 1 John 2:2 it is said that His death was a propitiation (satisfaction) not only for our sins, but for the sins of "the whole world." In Hebrews 2:9, it says that Christ tasted death for "every man." 1 Tim. 2:6 says that He gave Himself a ransom for "all." John the Baptist declared in John 1:29 that Jesus was the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the "world." In Isaiah 53:6, the Word of God states that "all" have gone astray (I would assume that refers to all men in the world) and that the Lord laid on Jesus the iniquity of us "all." Since the gospel is for "whosoever will" and it consists of the good news that Christ died for sinners, I must believe that the atonement of Christ is not limited. Not only is the atonement of Christ unlimited and offered to all men, but the Holy Spirit is presently working to convict the world (all men) of one sin. That sin is that Christ paid the penalty for their sins, but they do not believe on Him (John 16:8,9). God is "not willing that any should perish" (2 Peter 3:9) and it is said that He will "have all men to be saved (1 Tim. 2:4). In Scripture we find the Father giving the Son to the world, the Son tasting death for every man, and the Holy Spirit convicting the world. Since God's work must be our work, we should part company with Five-Point Calvinism right here. The Bible knows nothing of a limited atonement that comes from the vain intellectual reasoning of men.
John Trevett The Father chose the elect, the Son laid His Life down for the elect, and the Holy Spirit regenerates the elect. The Triune God is completely unified. If, as you say, Jesus satisfied (propitiated) the wrath of God on behalf of all the people that ever lived and will live, then why do men go to Hell? If Jesus atoned for the sins of all men, then all their sins are paid for and all men should be going to Heaven. "They didn't believe" you'll proclaim, but isn't unbelief a sin? A sin that Jesus would have atoned for, if, in fact, He died for all the sins of all men. Think about it. God does as He pleases, and you can be sure He did do as He pleased in having chose the elect (before the foundation of the world) and sending His Son, who laid His life down for the sheep (not the wolves/goats). The real wonder is that He shows anyone mercy. We all deserve Hell for our sins against a holy God. Also, the word "world" has 10 different meanings in the book of John alone.
John 16:9 is the only unpardonable sin..we agree on that, yes? What you are saying is that God sends people to hell for not believing in what he never did for them (un-elect?)
Nicole Marie Well yes Jesus died for our sins, but you have to be willing to take that as truth and believe it. If you don't your still dead in your sins and you need to repent. That's pretty straightforward to me.
Limited Atonement is really just a subcategory of Unconditional Election. Both are completely false. Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. This is the first Scripture mentioned as proof for Limited Atonement so we will start here. Christ certainly did die for those God gave Him to save. But who did God give Him? The Church. John 17 is talking about the elect that have chosen salvation through Jesus Christ. Make no mistake, there is still a distinction in the Word between God’s people, the Church, and the World. God gave the Church to Jesus, not specific people. But ANYONE could have been in the Church. Jesus died for ALL mankind in this age but salvation will only be applied to the believers. Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. The use of the word “many” here makes a Calvinist think that Jesus did not die for all. This is a weak argument because all of mankind in this age is “many ” . As opposed to all of humanity since the beginning of time, only those of this age since Jesus could be born-again so the word “many” would be appropriate. Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; Jesus gave Himself for the Church specifically speaking but generally speaking He also died for the whole world (John 3:16, 17). We need to look at both sides, not just the one that fits our theology. Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me ; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. Joh 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. Calvinism sees these verses in John 6 to mean that God has chosen specific people to be saved and they will be drawn to the Gospel, be converted, and ONLY those people will be converted. The rest are going to Hell and never had a chance at salvation. These verses alone would seem to show that to be true until we see the context of the passage. First, go back to verse 35: Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. This clearly states that a man has to come to Jesus; he has to make a choice. God does not make the choice for us. It is man’s responsibility to believe, not God’s. Believing is a choice that we freely have. Who has the power to make this choice? ALL those of this age that have heard the Gospel of Jesus dying for their sins (Romans 10:13-15). John 6:45 clears up how the Father gives men to Jesus: Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God . Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father , cometh unto me. How does the Father give men to Jesus? First, God teaches “all” . He brings the Gospel to all men so that they can receive Jesus. How does God bring the Gospel? Through the preaching of men (Rom 10:15,18). Second, the hearer of the Gospel makes a choice to learn of the Father God and to come to Him through Jesus. Jesus is the only Way to the Father (Joh 14:6). A learner is one that has made the choice to let Jesus be the Lord of their life; they are a disciple of Christ. So it is through man’s choice to become a disciple of Jesus Christ that God gives men unto Jesus. It has nothing to do with the Father picking out specific men ahead of time. God gives the Gospel to “all” because Jesus died for all. Those that believe, which could be anyone, are the ones that God gives to Jesus. When they are converted, they come to Jesus. If Jesus did not die for the sins of the whole world, then the blood of Jesus did not have enough power in it. Calvinism says Jesus only died for predestined saints therefore they are decreasing the value of the blood. It just was not good enough to cover everyone’s sins I guess. Jesus only died for the Church because the Bible says He was given for the whole world (John 3:16, 17). The people of the Church are the only ones that enjoy the benefits of the atonement since they are the ones that accepted the sacrifice but it was made available to the whole world. Why else would Jesus tell us to go into all the world and preach the good news if it was not for the whole world (Mark 16:15)? If Jesus did not die for the sins of the whole world, then God is not fair to all of mankind. He would be unjust by doing something for some but not for others. But that contradicts many Scriptures. Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons God does not respect certain people, in other words, favor certain men. He loves all of His creation the same and did the same action for all which is send Jesus. Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world- 2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself These Scriptures prove that God loved all the world. His aim was to reconcile the entire world unto Himself. How marvelous is the God of the Bible!
Are you a universalist? You're saying that Christ died for everyone and that the Father draws everyone. If that is true, then according to John 6:44 and other passages, all would be saved. The Scriptures clearly teach however that some will be lost. So, either you accept universalism or Calvinism.
@@ethanhocking8229 Whenever Calvinists are confronted with the shocking reality that God chooses to save some sinners with the vast majority being born, without hope, and being cast into hell forever, they almost always say that God is not obligated to save any and therefore He is gracious in saving some. My point is that if there is such a thing as the elect, as defined by Calvinism, who were chosen before the foundation of the world to be saved, then God is obligated to save them. You might not like my choice of words but this is the reality of it.
@@gregjay9933 no, God chose His sheep by His will.Doesn't the shepherd always choose His sheep and the parents choose who they adopt or others choose who they elect?
@@CBALLEN Show me the chapter and verse that says God chose His sheep by His will. In Jesus’ day, and even before He walked amongst the people, there were many Jews who had a genuine belief in God. It is these true believers that God gave to Jesus. These true believers believed the Word of God as spoken by the prophets and now they would believe the Words of Jesus. Now that Jesus’ ministry on earth has begun, these true believers, the sheep, hear His voice and Jesus said, “all the Father gives to me will come to me and I will never cast them out.” Isaiah wrote "All of us like sheep have gone astray". Does this mean that only God's elect whom He chose before the foundation of the world have gone astray? The word 'sheep' is used because it adequately describes people who are followers, whether of God or of the world.
@@gregjay9933 Here is Paul speaking to and about believers exclusively.Eph 1 1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and care faithful1 in Christ Jesus: 2 dGrace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Spiritual Blessings in Christ 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing gin the heavenly places, 4 heven as he ichose us in him jbefore the foundation of the world, that we should be kholy and blameless before him. In love 5 lhe predestined us2 for madoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, These chosen are God's sheep known to Him and chosen before time.John 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
Awesome message pastor Durbin. but I must point out, please don't lump all of us pre-mill dispensationalists together. I can't stand the "Left behind" series. And honestly most people that buy in to that series have never even heard of "Dispensations". They are completely ignorant of where they get their belief from and just swallow tradition feed to them in their childhood Sunday school. Oh and yes I whole heartedly believe in the doctrines of grace. great series given by you and Dr. White. God bless.
***** nothing. I am dispensational. I was pointing out most pretrib premill's are ignorant of where they get there eschatology from. Which is dispensations.
Yes but in the series and the movies unbelievers are convinced and come to believe. According to scripture those who have heard the gospel and reject it are given a delusion and follow the beast.
Yes. Those saints that come to faith after the rapture are the ones who haven't heard the gospel yet. The ones who have now and reject it will be the ones under judgement during the tribulation. The ones who follow the antichrists' false religion.
If God did not chose to save some, nobody would choose to receive Jesus Christ. “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me- just as the Father knows me and I know the Father-and I lay down my life for THE SHEEP....I call my own sheep by name and lead them out.” John 10:14-15, 3 To the goats Jesus says: “You do not believe because you are NOT my sheep....My Father HAS GIVEN THE SHEEP to me.” John 10:27, 29 Jesus says: “Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends IF you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. You did not choose me, but I CHOSE YOU.” John 15:13-16 Jesus did not choose the goats as his friends. Jesus says: “The Son of Man came....to give his life as a RANSOM for MANY (not all).” Matthew 20:28 If Jesus ransomed the goats, they would all be saved. “ I pray for them. I am NOT praying for the world (goats), but for those you have GIVEN ME, for they are yours. All I have is yours, and all you have is mine.” John 17:9-10 Jesus says he died for the sheep and at the same time told the unbelieving goats they were not his sheep so he did not die for them and Jesus specifically said he is not praying for the goats. Jesus chose his friends and died for them, not people who were not his friends and who hated him. If Jesus died for the unbelieving goats, then their sin of unbelief would be paid for and they would be saved. Jesus says: “I came down from heaven to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me: That I shall lose none of all he HAS GIVEN ME (the sheep) but raise them up at the last day.” John 6:38-39 In John 10:28-30 Jesus said the sheep were all the Father had given him and he and the Father are one (in essence and purpose and will). To have Jesus die for all the sins of people who the Father did not choose is to split the Trinity and make Jesus working against the Father’s will. Jesus did not die for Pharaoh and other people already in hell nor the goats whom he knew were freely choosing to go to hell and not the elect of the Father. Why would Jesus die for the goats already in hell? We all freely choose to go to hell but God chooses to regenerate and save some and die for them. That is pure mercy and grace. When God makes some people spiritually alive, who are dead in sin and resisting God, Jesus becomes irresistible to them. If Jesus is irresistible to you, then you are one of the Sheep Jesus died for. Jesus did not die for the goats who hate Jesus by their own free will. Jesus says: “My sheep listen to my voice. I know them and they follow me.” John 10:27 “I lay down my life for the sheep!” John 10:15 Do you know why you do not believe Jesus laid down his life for the sheep? “You do not believe because you are not my sheep.” John 10:26 Instead of worrying if Jesus died for the goats going to hell, people better receive this teaching by Jesus himself because Jesus says: “There is a judge for the one who rejects me and DOES NOT RECEIVE MY WORDS; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day!” John 12:48
Here is absolute Biblical proof that God does NOT cause or determine everything; In Jeremiah 19:5 God says, “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I did NOT COMMAND or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.” and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it."
Romans 8:29-30 tells us, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” Ephesians 1:5 and 11 declare, “He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will…In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.” Many people have a strong hostility to the doctrine of predestination. However, predestination is a biblical doctrine. The key is understanding what predestination means, biblically. The words translated “predestined” in the Scriptures referenced above are from the Greek word proorizo, which carries the meaning of “determining beforehand,” “ordaining,” “deciding ahead of time.” So, predestination is God determining certain things to occur ahead of time. What did God determine ahead of time? According to Romans 8:29-30, God predetermined that certain individuals would be conformed to the likeness of His Son, be called, justified, and glorified. Numerous scriptures refer to believers in Christ being chosen (Matthew 24:22, 31; Mark 13:20, 27; Romans 8:33, 9:11, 11:5-7, 28; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2, 2:9; 2 Peter 1:10). Predestination is the biblical doctrine that God in His sovereignty chooses certain individuals to be saved. Predestination is an explicitly biblical doctrine. Yet the determination of predestination is not disconnected from the rest of God’s unchanging character (Malachi 3:6). It is connected to His foreknowledge (Romans 8:29, 11:2), His love (Ephesians 1:4-5), and His plan and pleasure (Ephesians 1:5). God’s desire is that all would be saved and come to repentance (1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9). Predestination is personal and relational, not capricious. The most common objection to the doctrine of predestination is that it is unfair. Why would God choose certain individuals and not others? We must remember that no one deserves to be saved. We have all sinned (Romans 3:23) and are all worthy of eternal punishment (Romans 6:23). As a result, God would be perfectly just in allowing all of us to spend eternity in hell. However, God chooses to save some of us. He is not being unfair to those who are not chosen, because they are receiving what they deserve. God’s choosing to be gracious to some is not unfair to the others. No one deserves anything from God; therefore, no one can object if he does not receive anything from God. An illustration would be a man randomly handing out money to five people in a crowd of twenty. Would the fifteen people who did not receive money be upset? Probably so. Do they have a right to be upset? No, they do not. Why? Because the man did not owe anyone money. He simply decided to be gracious to some. If God is choosing who is saved, doesn’t that undermine our free will to choose and believe in Christ? The Bible says that we have the choice-all who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10). The Bible never describes God rejecting anyone who believes in Him or turning away anyone who is seeking Him (Deuteronomy 4:29). The truths of God’s sovereign predestination and also man’s responsibility are not mutually exclusive. Somehow, in the mystery of God, predestination works hand-in-hand with a person being drawn by God (John 6:44) and believing unto salvation (Romans 1:16). God predestines who will be saved, and we must choose Christ in order to be saved. Both facts are equally true. Romans 11:33 proclaims, “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!”
We are incapable to “choosing” Christ on our own. When we are “dead” in our sins, we can choose nothing. Unless Christ calls us by name “Lazarus come forth “ You will never come
@@dkjazzz John 3:16 ESV / 7 helpful votes “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 1 John 1:9 ESV / 5 helpful votes If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Acts 2:38 ESV / 5 helpful votes And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. John 8:24 ESV / 5 helpful votes I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.” 2 Peter 3:9 ESV / 3 helpful votes The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. Revelation 3:20 ESV / 2 helpful votes Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. 1 John 5:13 ESV / 2 helpful votes I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life. Ephesians 2:8-10 ESV / 2 helpful votes For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Romans 8:38-39 ESV / 2 helpful votes For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. if we want God, he will then complete salvation in us.
From Matt 7:13,14 one would gather that there will be more perishing than saved. The great number that can't be counted, in Rev, is many, yes but few in terms of all of humanity.
My question is for a man like Jeff. Where does personal choice come into his theology. He believes that we do not have free will but yet we have the ability to choose. And at that choose God or not. Is this a self refuting argument? And if it isn’t and Calvinism teaches that you can choose God? Do we have any reason to boast?
Calvinism does not teach you can choose God as a libertarian choice. Have you listened to any of Jeff Durbin's sermons in this series? What about other Calvinists such as Jeff White, John MacArthur, Steven Lawson, R C Sproul, James M Boice, and so on? Have you read any of the material such as Martin Luthur's magnum opus The Bondage of the Will? RC Sproul' Chosen by God? To name only two. The Calvinist believes man has creaturly free will, that is, a man makes choices according to his nature. Rabbits choose carrots over meat, a wolf chooses meat over carrots, and a natural man chooses sin over God. 1 Cor 2:14 says a natural man, that is a man without Christ, cannot please God. The things if God are stupid to him, foolishness. Romans 8:7 says the mind of a natural (unsaved) person does not accept the law of God and indeed -it cannot do so. It is unable to do so. Further, Jesus himself says no man has the ability to come to him unless the Father makes it possible. There is free will, but only to the extent creatures choose according to their nature. This is not refuted by any verse in the Scriptures taken in context. But to get a more thorough understanding I would recommend more reading or listening.
BL Chambliss, CSCP I’m totally tracking with you, I am. And granted I do listening to many of the men you mentioned. I’m not a big reader though. Besides the BIBLE of course. But even so......let’s take the nature thing. Rabbits and Wolves. Totally get it. Totally tracking. So...... Are we all BORN, if you will......as wolves? And then? The Father draws us to be Rabbits? Or makes us Rabbits? Thus learning how to eat carrots? OR Are some only born as wolves and will forever be wolves. And are some born as rabbits but for the first years of their lives ACT like wolves and then learn to love carrots because they are actually Rabbits and will forever be Rabbits? Former or latter?
@@aaronmacias1033 All are born in a state of reprobation, that is, as natural men (or women), that is, in the flesh. Jesus told Nicodemus"you must be born again." As a natural man you can't even see the Kingdom, much less enter it. You must be born from above. I think it is safe to say, in Jesus's statement to Nicodemas, all men are counted as natural in the reprobate sense. So, God doesn't need to actively condemn men to damnation. As it is said in Galatians 3:22, "But the Scripture hath concluded all under sin..." And in Romans 11:32 "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief..." Since the Bible says all men are concluded in sin, I have no choice but to come to the same understanding. No one is born the first time as saved or anathon. What happens is, in regeneration God changes us. So we are given new bearts, new wills, new desires. A natural man does not desire God (he might desire a god of his own description, and many do) but a regenerate man does desire God. He isn't perfect but the desire is to please God and has a love for the things of God and wants to subject himself to God. So, to answer you, the regenerate wolf will eat his vegetables. But only because those wolves were born again from God. They did not learn anything if their own volition. There are no rabbits born anywhere. I should have said, there are no people born saints, but rather all are born as God-haters. But there's another question which you might explore, and you almost asked it: look at infralasparian versus supralapsarian. The question deals with which God decreed first, the election of some or the fall of man.
1 CORINTHIANS 1:21 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save then that BELIEVE. Q: According to 1 Corinthians 1:21 does it please God to save those that believe or does it please Him to save people so that then they can then believe after they’re born again? **God has sovereignly decreed to choose for salvation, only those who would repent and put their faith in Christ.** Just because it’s God’s will that all should be saved doesn’t mean His will is somehow thwarted when people freely reject Him because that’s the way He designed it. Someone’s will is NOT someone actively willing and MAKING that thing come to pass. It’s His will that all be saved does not equate to “He’s actively willing (a.k.a forcing) all to be saved” **Tell me how do you reason with someone with no freewill?** ISAIAH 1:18 18 COME NOW, AND LET US REASON TOGETHER, SAITH THE LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. Pretty clear that even sinful man can reason with the Lord. Why can’t the reformer accept who God has sovereignly decided save?
? how does limited atonement fit with 2 Corinth 5:19: That God has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that God was reconciling the WORLD to himself, not counting peoples sins against then and he has committed us to the message of reconciliation. I am uncertain how you evangelise without this message, what do you say to the sinner? Jesus has paid the price for your sin, or perhaps not? maybe or maybe not? all depends whether it is your sins he paid for or someone elses who is part of the elect? So do you tell them that up front? The Gospel message would be Christ dying for the sins of some of you in the crowd, I am unsure how to preach this
Christ _is_ reconciling the world, and that isn't a problem for limited atonement. Reconciling the world isn't equal to Christ reconciling every human being who ever was and ever will be. As for the Gospel message, just preach like the apostles did. "God commands all people everywhere to repent." Those who God calls will heed his command.
KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC whoa! Brother! Chill! I was asking a sincere question. Christian unity is not found in doctrinally having all our t’s crossed and I’s dotted, but rather in celebrating the amazing grace and love of our God. I can see you have a zeal for truth, but in that pursuit please don’t stone other believers! It’s been a year since I posted that question , Thankyou for taking the time to reply, A lot has happened in that year, and though I am unsure I wish to be labelled Calvinist or Armenian , I may be a “Calvinist” though I don’t feel it is helpful to be labelled. I have had an amazing journey getting closer to Jesus. I went on a 20 day fasting and seeking the Lord, He delivered me from anger, I am now experiencing His amazing love and joy more than ever before so much so that I feel born again, again! My family say I have my head in the clouds and I am delusional , but I don’t mind , joy, peace, love, purity, freedom from condemnation, sin nature dead, and knowing my identity as His son! I’m holding onto that delusion!! 😀 Not sure which camp I belong in , or if there should be a camp, but this is what I believe. The atoning work of Christ was complete, he has payed the price for all of mankind’s sin forever , sin being condemned in his sinful flesh ( sinful with our sin) so through one man, Adam all died, so through the second Adam , all live “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.”(1 Cor 15) . So what the law was unable to do, Christ did, by condemning sin in sinful flesh. So sin was condemned in sinful flesh and he was risen for our justification. This is the good news of our Gospel message, I agree it is not the sinners prayer, or come to Jesus so that you can be healed, or have a bigger bank account, but Come to Jesus because He bankrupted heaven and poured himself out not to save sinners but restore lost sons! One man died, so all men died! The gospel call is not to come to Jesus to live a happier life, but to die! He never came to make bad people better, but dead people alive and ironically to live we must first die to ourselves, it is the complete identification with him, abiding in him through his death , burial and resurrection, just as he fully identified with man in his death burial and resurrection. This is “unlimited”atonement for all, that is there is not one sin ever committed in the history or future of mankind that was not paid for by the blood of Christ. So we now have a message of reconciliation that Man has been reconciled to Christ , we can now walk with him again in the garden! It is the grace of God that opens our eyes to the gospel and we enter into and experience the love and reconciliation of God provided for us 2000 years ago through faith, and this is not from God, lest anyone boast. We find when we responded to his grace that we have been chosen and predestined as his elect before the foundation of the world. So will there be those that reject the love of God. Sadly , yes. I don’t think this changes Gods heart that he wishes all to be saved and has provided the open door for all to walk through. Many of my friends reject Gods love to pursue idolatory , worshiping other gods such as money and sex. So not sure if this makes me a Calvinist , perhaps I am ? Either way I will not stop sharing the gospel of the love of God through Christ. Ps: is your name an acronym? I don’t get it
I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I WILL HAVE MERCY The reason God has mercy on anyone is according to His Word and who HE’S DECIDED to have mercy on. Not according to you. Not according to me. According to His Word. So do you not know who God has mercy on as clearly revealed in HIS WORD? Not my word. Not your word. HIS WORD. Do you not know the scriptures? Search them and you will clearly see WHO God in His sovereignty has decided to have mercy on. Do you have a problem with who He’s decided to have mercy on? Will you shake your fist at Him in defiance at who He wants to have mercy on? God’s MERCY is one of His best attributes that He actually loves to showcase and longs to show off as we see with the story of Moses when God chose to showcase His glory to Moses. How did GOD HIMSELF CHOOSE to showcase His glory? What attributes did GOD HIMSELF CHOOSE TO REVEAL and PROCLAIM to Moses when He stood with him in the cloud on the top of the mountain? God HIMSELF proclaimed His own name by showcasing His MERCY, His GRACE and His PATIENCE: EXODUS 34:5,6 5 And THE LORD DESCENDED IN THE CLOUD, and stood with him there, and PROCLAIMED THE NAME OF THE LORD. 6 And the Lord passed by before him, and PROCLAIMED, THE LORD, THE LORD GOD, MERCIFUL AND GRACIOUS, LONGSUFFERING, AND ABUNDANT IN GOODNESS AND TRUTH *********************************** Showing mercy actually EXALTS God which is why He patiently waits to extend it: ISAIAH 30:18 18 Therefore the Lord WAITS TO BE GRACIOUS to you, and therefore he EXALTS HIMSELF to SHOW MERCY to you. For the Lord is a God of justice; blessed are all those who wait for him. QUESTION: If God predestined those who would believe in Him already then who is God being patient and waiting for? Himself? Is God patiently waiting for HIMSELF to effectually save them? *********************************** God doesn’t glory in our destruction but in His MERCY which is why He PATIENTLY WAITS for us because He is also Just and Holy and knows that ultimately He has to execute judgment according to RIGHTEOUSNESS which of course can only be found THROUGH Christ. 2 PETER 3:9 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, BUT IS PATIENT TOWARD YOU, NOT WISHING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD REACH REPENTANCE. God waits patiently for us to turn to Him in repentance. To consider our ways with the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil that the fall brought and to forsake our ways and live by humbly admitting that we can’t save ourselves and admit that to the One who can! *********************************** The following passage is crystal clear that God places the responsibility on man to repent, cast away and turn himself and in doing so shall live: ...According to Ezekiel 18:27-32 even the WICKED man has the ability to turn. EZEKIEL 18:27-32 27 Again, WHEN THE WICKED MAN TURNETH away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, HE SHALL SAVE HIS SOUL ALIVE. 28 BECAUSE HE CONSIDERETH, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, HE SHALL SURELY LIVE, he shall not die. 29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal? 30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. REPENT, and TURN YOURSELVES from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31 CAST AWAY from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 FOR I HAVE NO PLEASURE IN THE DEATH OF HIM THAT DIETH, SAITH THE LORD GOD: WHEREFORE TURN YOURSELVES, AND LIVE YE. *********************************** ...According to Matthew 25:37 Jesus Christ Himself states He would have gathered Jerusalem but THEY WOULD NOT: MATTHEW 23:37 37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and YE WOULD NOT!" QUESTION: If God predestined before the foundation of the world who would believe then why is Jesus making this statement? **Wouldn’t a better statement from Jesus be, “How often would I have gathered you but my Father did not choose you!” Reformers make a mockery of Jesus’ genuine, heart-heart emotion in this passage essentially disregarding it as disingenuous. *********************************** ...According to John 5:39-40 Jesus Christ Himself is putting it on the Pharisees who will not come to Him to have life: JOHN 5:39-40 39 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And YE WILL NOT come to me, that ye might have life." QUESTION: If God predestined before the foundation of the world who would believe then why is Jesus making this statement? **Wouldn’t a better statement from Jesus be, “You can’t come to me to have life because my Father did not choose you!”
57:37 ᗯOᗯ! He’s talking about pronouns, and here we are 5 years later skewing pronouns. The Bible is why pronouns are actually important. Great message!
For whom did Christ die? 1Ti_2:6 "Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." Nothing like scripture to answer the simple questions.
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLACPaul did not add that into the verse. Keep the verses where they belong, Matthew 20:28 cannot be added to this verse as it is part of a different program than the one God is using today called the body of Christ. Today salvation is freely given to anyone who trust the gospel of the grace of God, 1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
(The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.-2 Peter 3:9) (For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.-1 Timothy 4:10 ) (“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” -1 John 2:2)
1. The blood of the lamb was available to ALL to apply to their doorposts. 2. The serpent on the pole was available to ALL to look upon. 3. Jesus is available to ALL who believe. Nothing has changed. Just because it’s available to all doesn’t mean all will believe and be saved. He made a PROVISION. 1. The lamb’s blood on the doorpost was a PROVISION. 2. The serpent on the pole was a PROVISION. 3. Jesus Christ was a PROVISION The atonement doesn’t save us. It makes a PROVISION. It makes salvation possible which is on and of itself the greatest accomplishment. It provides a WAY that was otherwise unavailable. Jesus is the WAY the truth and the life. Providing a way for mankind, who otherwise would perish, is an incredible accomplishment beyond comprehension. To say that Christ’s death didn’t accomplish anything tramples underfoot the very blood that He shed, counting it an unholy thing DESPITE THE SPIRIT OF GRACE. What spirit of grace is trampled underfoot? The very SAVING grace that is available to ALL in Titus 2:11: TITUS 2:11 11 FOR THE GRACE OF GOD THAT BRINGETH SALVATION HATH APPEARED TO ALL MEN, **SAVING grace is available to all. If you freely choose to reject the provision of Christ’s blood DESPITE this grace then you are counting it unworthy to save you. ************************************ ************************************ If Jesus Christ Himself gave us an analogy of salvation would we believe it? Because He does. And it’s recorded in John 3 in the account of Nicodemus and not the account of Lazarus. You must be born again, which is exactly what Jesus went on to tell Nicodemus in the succeeding verses of John 3 that reformers seem to ignore. In response to Nicodemus’ question Jesus tells him clearly and plainly HOW to be born again. He must BELIEVE in the one who will be lifted up in on the pole. Yet reformers like to stop reading early on in John 3 and then try and tell Jesus what He means instead of just continuing to read Jesus’ own words and explanation. How about we take Jesus Christ Himself’s analogy of salvation instead of using other passages that are meant to show His power over death and the grave and the resurrection. These are Jesus words. Will you sweep them under the rug and ignore His analogy: JOHN 3:14,15 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, EVEN SO MUST THE SON OF MAN BE LIFTED UP: 15 THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. God commanded us what to do all 3 times: 1. Strike (apply) 2. Look 3. Believe **Moses understood and obeyed both times to the “T”. He did not question. **So why is it that when Jesus Christ Himself tells us clearly how to have eternal life in John 3:14,15 now all of a sudden reformers question Him? ************************************ ************************************ EXODUS 12:7 7 AND THEY SHALL TAKE OF THE BLOOD, AND STRIKE IT ON THE TWO SIDE POSTS AND ON THE UPPER DOOR POST OF THE HOUSES, wherein they shall eat it. EXODUS 12:13 13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and WHEN I SEE THE BLOOD, I WILL PASS OVER YOU, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt. ** Even though the animals were killed and their blood shed that did NOT save them. Their instructions were clear that they must APPLY the blood to the doorposts. ONLY THEN would the Lord pass over their house. If they forgot to apply the blood they would be slain in the night. So to, Christ shed his blood for you and if you don’t BELIEVE and RECEIVE what He did for you, you will perish. God needs to see His Son’s blood on the doorposts of your heart when He passes over you. If He just sees it shed on the ground you will surely be destroyed. EXODUS 12:22,23 22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and STRIKE THE LINTEL AND THE TWO SIDE POSTS WITH THE BLOOD that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning. 23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; AND WHEN HE SEETH THE BLOOD UPON THE LINTEL, AND ON THE TWO SIDE POSTS, THE LORD WILL PASS OVER THE DOOR, AND WILL NOT SUFFER THE DESTROYER TO COME IN UNTO YOUR HOUSES TO SMITE YOU. Q: Did the Israelites save themselves? No. God saved them AFTER they freely applied the animal’s blood to their doorposts. Q: Do we save ourselves? No. God saves us AFTER we freely believe. ************************************ ************************************ NUMBERS 21:8,9 8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS, THAT EVERY ONE THAT IS BITTEN, WHEN HE LOOKETH UPON IT, SHALL LIVE. 9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, WHEN HE BEHELD THE SERPENT OF BRASS, HE LIVED. ** Even though the serpent was provided on a pole for everyone to look upon that did NOT save them. Their instructions were clear that they must LOOK/BEHOLD the serpent on the pole. ONLY THEN would the Lord heal them and they would live. If they refused to behold the bronze serpent on the pole they would die. So to, Christ shed his blood for you and if you don’t BELIEVE and RECEIVE what He did for you, you will perish. Q: Did the Israelites heal themselves? No. God healed them AFTER they freely beheld the serpent on the pole. Q: Do we save ourselves? No. God saves us AFTER we freely believe.
Does Jesus saying He died for His sheep mean He didn’t die for anyone else? By that logic we would conclude that Jesus only die for the Apostle Paul and no one else because in Galatians 2:20 Paul says that Christ have Himself for him. So does that mean Jesus never died for anyone else? Of course not. GALATIANS 2:20 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and GAVE HIMSELF FOR ME.
You may as well remove all of these verses from your bible because they mean nothing to you: 1. NUMBERS 21:8 - ANYONE WHO LOOKS 2. NUMBERS 21:9 - ANY MAN WHO BEHELD 3. DEUTERONOMY 30:14 - WORD IS NIGH 4. 2 CHRONICLES 30:18,19 - PARDONS EVERYONE THAT PREPARES HIS HEART TO SEEK HIM 5. PSALM 85:9 - SALVATION IS NEAR TO ALL WHO FEAR HIM 6. PSALM 86:5 - MERCY TO ALL WHO CALL UPON HIM 7. PROVERBS 1:33 - WHOSOEVER HEARKENS SHALL DWELL SAFELY 8. PROVERBS 28:13 - MERCY ON WHOSO CONFESSES AND FORSAKES THEIR SIN 9. ISAIAH 25:6-8 - WIPE AWAY ALL TEARS 10. ISAIAH 30:18 - ALL THOSE WHO WAIT FOR HIM 11. ISAIAH 53:6 - INIQUITY OF US ALL 12. ISAIAH 53:10 - OFFERING FOR SIN 13. ISAIAH 53:12 - INTERCEDES FOR THE TRANSGRESSORS 14. ISAIAH 55:7 - MERCY ON THOSE WHO FORSAKE THEIR WAY 15. ISAIAH 57:15 - REVIVES THE HEART OF THE CONTRITE 16. JONAH 2:8 - EVERYONE HAD MERCY 17. MATTHEW 9:13 - CALLED SINNERS 18. MATTHEW 10:32 - WHOSOEVER SHALL CONFESS 19. MATTHEW 10:40 - HE THAT RECEIVETH 20. MATTHEW 11:28 - REST FOR ALL THAT LABOUR 21. MATTHEW 16:24 - IF ANY MAN 22. MATTHEW 16:25 - WHOSOEVER WILL 23. MARK 8:34 - ALL ARE CALLED. WHOSOEVER WILL 24. MARK 16:15-16 - EVERY CREATURE 25. LUKE 2:10 - PEACE FOR ALL PEOPLE 26. LUKE 2:14 - PEACE FOR ALL MEN 27. LUKE 2:30,31- SALVATION PREPARED FOR ALL 28. LUKE 3:6 - ALL SHALL SEE SALVATION 29. LUKE 4:18 - DELIVERANCE TO THE CAPTIVES 30. LUKE 5:32 - CALL SINNERS TO REPENTANCE 31. LUKE 10:16 - HE WHO HEARETH 32. LUKE 14:26 - ANY MAN CAN COME 33. JOHN 1:7 - ALL MEN MIGHT BELIEVE 34. JOHN 1:9 - LIGHTETH EVERY MAN 35. JOHN 1:12 - AS MANY AS RECEID HIM 36. JOHN 1:12 - TO THEM THAT BELIEVE 37. JOHN 1:16,17 - GRACE TO ALL 38. JOHN 1:29 - TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD 39. JOHN 3:15 - WHOSOEVER BELIEVES 40. JOHN 3:16 - WHOSOEVER BELIEVES 41. JOHN 3:17 - WORLD MIGHT BE SAVED THROUGH HIM 42. JOHN 3:18 - HE THAT BELIEVETH 43. JOHN 3:19 - LIGHT HAS COME INTO THE WORLD 44. JOHN 3:36 - HE THAT BELIEVETH 45. JOHN 4:10 - ANYONE WHO KNOWS AND ASKS 46. JOHN 4:14 - WHOSOEVER 47. JOHN 4:42 - SAVIOUR OF THE THE WORLD 48. JOHN 5:24 - HE THAT HEARS AND BELIEVES 49. JOHN 5:25 - THEY THAT HEAR 50. JOHN 6:33 - GIVETH LIFE TO THE WORLD 51. JOHN 6:35 - HE THAT COMETH 52. JOHN 6:35 - HE THAT BELIEVETH 53. JOHN 6:37 - ALL THAT COMETH 54. JOHN 6:40 - ALL THAT SEE AND BELIEVE 55. JOHN 6:47 - HE THAT BELIEVES 56. JOHN 6:50 - A MAN MAY EAT 57. JOHN 6:51 - IF ANY MAN EAT 58. JOHN 6:51 - GIVEN FOR THE LIFE OF THE WORLD 59. JOHN 6:54 - WHOSO EATETH AND DRINKETH 60. JOHN 6:56 - HE THAT EATETH 61. JOHN 6:57 - HE THAT EATETH 62. JOHN 6:58 -HE THAT EATETH 63. JOHN 7:37 - IF ANY MAN THIRST 64. JOHN 7:38 - HE THAT BELIEVETH 65. JOHN 10:9 - IF ANY MAN ENTER 66. JOHN 11:26 - EVERYONE 67. JOHN 12:32 - DRAW ALL MEN 68. JOHN 12:47 - IF ANY MAN HEAR 69. JOHN 12:47 - SAVE THE WORLD 70. JOHN 16:8 - REPROVE THE WORLD 71. JOHN 17:20 - THEM WHICH SHALL BELIEVE 72. JOHN 20:31 - ANYONE 73. ACTS 2:38 - EVERYONE 74. ACTS 11:18 - REPENTANCE GRANTED TO JEWS AND GENTILES 75. JOHN 16:18 - CONVICT THE WORLD OF SIN 76. ACTS 10:35 - HE THAT FEARETH 77. ACTS 10:43 - WHOSOEVER BELEIVETH 78. ACTS 13:39 - ALL THAT BELIEVE 79. ACTS 17:31 - ASSURANCE TO ALL MEN 80. ACTS 17:30 - COMMANDS ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT 81. ACTS 20:21- REPENTANCE AND FAITH TO JEWS AND GREEKS 82. ACTS 26:20 - GRANTED TO JEWS AND GENTILES 83. ROMANS 1:16 - SALVATION TO EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES 84. ROMANS 3:22 - ALL WHO BELIEVE 85. ROMANS 3:26 - HIM WHICH BELIEVETH 86. ROMANS 4:5 - HIM THAT BELIEVETH ON HIM 87. ROMANS 4:11 - ALL WHO BELIEVE 88. ROMANS 5:6 - DIED FOR THE UNGODLY 89. ROMANS 5:17- ANYONE CAN RECEIVE 90. ROMANS 5:18 - FREE GIFT TO ALL MEN 91. ROMANS 6:23 - FREE GIFT 92. ROMANS 9:33 - WHOSOEVER 93. ROMANS 10:4 EVERYONE THAT BELIEVES 94. ROMANS 10:8 - FAITH IS NEAR TO ALL 95. ROMANS 10:11 - WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL 96. ROMANS 10:12 - ALL THAT CALL 97. ROMANS 10:13 - EVERYONE WHO CALLS 98. ROMANS 11:32 - MERCY TO ALL 99. ROMANS 12:3 - MEASURE OF FAITH TO EVERY MAN 100. 1 CORINTHIANS 5:7 - SACRIFICE FOR US 101. 2 CORINTHIANS 5:14 - DIED FOR ALL 102. 2 CORINTHIANS 5:15 - DIED FOR ALL 103. 2 CORINTHIANS 5:17 - ANY MAN 104. 2 CORINTHIANS 5:19 - RECONCILING THE WORLD 105. EPHESIANS 3:9 - TO MAKE ALL MEN SEE 106. EPHESIANS 4:7 - EVERYONE OF US IS GIVEN GRACE 107. COLOSSIANS 1:28 - WARNING EVERY MAN 108. COLOSSIANS 1:28 - TEACHING EVERY MAN 109. COLOSSIANS 1:28 - PRESENTING EVERY MAN 110. 1 TIMOTHY 1:15 - CHRIST CAME TO SAVE SINNERS 111. 1 TIMOTHY 2:3,4 - WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED 112. 1 TIMOTHY 2:6 - RANSOM FOR ALL 113. 1 TIMOTHY 4:10 - SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN 114. TITUS 2:11 - GRACE TO ALL MEN 115. HEBREWS 2:9 - TASTED DEATH FOR EVERY MAN 116. HEBREWS 9:28 - UNTO THEM THAT LOOK FOR HIM 117. HEBREWS 10:10 - CHRIST OFFERED HIS BODY FOR ALL 118. 1 PETER 3:18 - CHRIST SUFFERED FOR THE UNJUST 119. 2 PETER 2:1 - THE LORD BOUGHT EVERYONE 120. 2 PETER 3:9 - NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH 121. 2 PETER 3:9 - ALL SHOULD REACH REPENTANCE 122. 1 JOHN 2:2 - PROPITIATION OF THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD 123. 1 JOHN 4:1-2 - EVERY SPIRIT THAT CONFESSES 124. 1 JOHN 4:14 - SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD 125. 1 JOHN 4:15 - WHOSOEVER SHALL CONFESS 126. JUDE 1:3 - COMMON SALVATION 127. REVELATION 3:20 - IF ANY MAN HEAR AND OPEN 128. REVELATION 22:17- HIM THAT HEARETH 129. REVELATION 22:17- HIM THAT THIRSTS 130. REVELATION 22:17 -WHOSEVER WILL 131. REVELATION 22:21 - GRACE BE WITH ALL
You may as well throw the entire Bible into a furnace because you clearly don't want to see what is plainly written: 10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. 12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.”[a] 13 “Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit.”[b] “The poison of vipers is on their lips.”[c] 14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”[d] 15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 ruin and misery mark their ways, 17 and the way of peace they do not know.” Romans 3:10-17 Nobody wants God EXCEPT those who have been regenerated BY HIM from eternity past, before for the foundations of the world. "for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED."" Romans 9: 11-13
@@douglasmcnay644 No you may as well throw your entire Bible away because it’s obviously not your authority. Romans 3 isn’t some magical proof text that voids the rest of scripture. Context, context , context. Romans 3:10-17 is being quoted from Psalm 14 which is hyperbole. Are you actually claiming peoples tongues are 👉LITERAL👈 open graves? 🤦♂️ Paul is using hyperbolic language to drive home a point. No one is righteous by the law. Abraham was described as righteous in the next chapter so is Paul lying ? Or maybe you just need to read in CONTEXT. Faith vs. Works. Paul goes on and on and on and on about the contrast and you still don’t get it? …and regarding seeking God, you do realize that He sought US don’t you? Remember Jesus who came to seek and save the lost? What more do you want?
@@douglasmcnay644 1) Please show me where in Romans 9 an individual unbeliever was unconditionally elected or chosen or predestined to damnation before the foundation of the world. Which verse says that? 2) Please show me where in Romans 9 an individual unbeliever was unconditionally elected or chosen or predestined to salvation before the foundation of the world. Which verse says that?
Everyone WHO LOOKS. Not everyone everywhere without condition. The elect look. The elect thirst. The elect have ears to hear. The elect behold God. The elect fear God. No one else does. Only the elect
Limited Atonement is biblical as is Particular Redemption. But too many fail to properly distinguish between "atonement" (katallage) and "propitiation" (hilasterion). Christ's propitiation or "mercy seat" is a once for all satisfaction for human sin -- of the believers and the unbelievers as per 1 John 2:2. Christ's atonement is reconciliatory N.B. at-one-ment (as per Rom. 5:11). Thus while Christ's propitiation is sufficient for the remitting of the sins of the world, reconciliation to God is only possible by faith in that propitiation. Because only a relatively small percentage of people hear the Good News, and even fewer place their faith in it, we can only rightly conclude that the atonement is limited and the redemption is particular.
For all who love God and desires to glorify His name, know the meaning of two simple words and you will know the truth. The meaning of the word “remission” is as follows: “the cancellation of a debt, charge, or penalty.” The meaning of the word “redemption” is as follows: “noun 1. the action of saving or being saved from sin, error, or evil. "God's plans for the redemption of his world" 2. the action of regaining or gaining possession of something in exchange for payment, or clearing a debt.” Actually it is point 2 that we understood God‘s salvation/redemption plan. God redeemed us from the debt of sin in which we can never repay! The understanding of these words would straightaway tell you the atonement of Christ does not depends on whether He died for the person, the fact is He died for all (John 3:16, Romans 5:18 etc,.), the atonement was made for everyone. In another word, payment for sin is made for everyone but the redemption requires faith to believe in what Christ had done. Atonement made is not complete until the sinner received by faith to be redeemed and then the transaction (I.e. redemption) is completed! This is the same as financial transaction, as the scripture described concerning our salvation: Acts 20:28 KJV [28] Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. Ephesians 1:14 KJV [14] Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Do not be ignorant as sin and foolishness is always associated with ignorance: Acts 17:23 KJV [23] For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD . Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. Romans 10:3 KJV [3] For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 1 Timothy 1:13 KJV [13] Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC That paper is among the many pages, is called the Bible! If you disagree with the bible, God's Word, then you have to ask yourself whether you are a true believer. What I am addressing here is the false teaching called "Limited Atonement", how we come to believe, the conviction of sin, the regeneration, the new birth, I can't be sure and I don't think the bible is clear on these.
Isaiah 53:6 ALL OF US, like sheep, have gone astray..but the Lord Has caused the wrong doing of ALL OF US To fall of him. So if all (or the "many", as preached) is only the elect, then the elect are the only ones that have strayed like sheep? Cause the all that sinned seems clearly to be the same all that Jesus bore their sin here in Isaiah.
Many use Matthew 1:21 to prove their case on limited atonement, however this verse demolishes "Limited Atonement" rather than support it! Matthew 1:21, can easily be used to refute "Limited Atonement" simply because "his people" here refers to Israel and not the elect! And many are making the unforgivable mistake by interpreting "his people" to be the elect, because it was still in the Old Testament period when the angel proclaimed the gospel! And if "his people" refers to Israel then Jesus died for the elect and non-elect (Romans 9:6-11)! Any young Christian (young as in the faith) who know the simple truth that Israel is God's people in the Old Testament and when the Old Testament ended and when the New Testament begin then the doctrine of atonement will be very clear to him or her. Read also the parallel account in Luke 1:68-80, no one will have doubt that 'his people' is referring to Israel, God's people in the Old Testament. Therefore the atonement is not limited to the elect only
+EndTimesToronto well said, brother! Let all who said the Bible is their sole authority of faith and practice, trust only the Bible, the Word of God and depart from the doctrine of men, which hold no water and can easily be refuted.
William Lee I agree with your view on the atonement, but I fail to see your reasoning with Mat 1:21. I would add this about the atonement. Many people use Matt 20: 28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. To prove limited atonement. However, it goes against it..... Mat 7: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Mat 22: 14 ¶ For many are called, but few are chosen. Many can be all and all can be many. But many cannot be few. I may have a different view from you about Israel that isn’t allowing me to see your point with Mat 1:21. I believe that in reference to “his people” it is speaking of the faithful remnant. Those who feared God. These were the ones whom Jesus came to save and WOULD come to Him..... Mal 3: 16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. 17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. 18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not. That’s why some of the Jews were hardened and some would come to Christ. It was prophesied in Mal 3:18 and many other places. John the Baptist came to turn the hearts of the people to the Lord. He may have been their last chance to repent and fear God. Anyways, would like to understand your train of thought on Mat 1:21. God bless you brother
Evan U - the nation of Israel is known in the Old Testament as God’s people, this is written throughout the Old Testament books, examples Exodus 10:4, Leviticus 26:12, Micah 6:5 KJV etc,. The Gentile who believe and become the people of God only happens in the New Testament during the church age (Romans 9:25-26 KJV). As such, if Matthew 1:21 happens during the Old Testament period then we can prove convincingly that “my people” here refers to the nation of Israel. Knowing who “my people” here is crucial because many theologians said that it refers to the elect or all the saved people (Jews and gentile) in the New Testament (I.e. the church). They took it for granted that “his people” refers to the church because it is in the New Testament scripture, this is clearly an unforgivable mistake! If “his people” here refers to the nation of Israel and we know it consist of the elect and non-elect (Romans 9:6), then we proved Jesus died for elect and the non-elect. This demolishes the limited atonement theory! Many fall for this men-made theory because it gave them a false sense of security saying that if Jesus Christ died for you then you can never be lost! However, they failed to realize that if scripture does not support it (i.e. falsehood) then they are standing on men's words, their faith rest on the flaw logic of men (wisdom of men) and not on God's Word! I wish all who named after the precious name of Jesus Christ, that our faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God! 1 Corinthians 2:5 God bless!
Daniel Elam it's very light. The purple light where the shadow comes to a point. I didn't notice it until I saw this comment, but most the time I'm just listening and not watching anyway. Would be a shame to miss this great sermon bc of something minor like that.
At 43:07 minutes you realized that your a sinner. And made the choice to follow God. To believe in him. You had free will. Faith is not works. It's not like I'm. Gonna die and see God and Proclaim that my great faith got me here. Nope
...According to 1 Corinthians 1:21 does it please God to save those that believe or does it please Him to save people so that then they can then believe after they’re born again? 1 CORINTHIANS 1:21 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God BY THE FOOLISHNESS OF PREACHING TO SAVE THEM THAT BELIEVE. Just because it’s God’s will that all should be saved doesn’t mean His will is somehow thwarted when people freely reject Him because that’s the way He designed it. Someone’s will is NOT someone actively willing and MAKING that thing come to pass. It’s His will that all be saved does not equate to “He’s actively willing (a.k.a forcing) all to be saved” **Tell me how do you reason with someone with no freewill?** ISAIAH 1:18 18 COME NOW, AND LET US REASON TOGETHER, SAITH THE LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. Pretty clear that even sinful man can reason with the Lord.
One of the supporting verse for limited atonement is Matthew 1:21. They said Christ died only for the elect. The idea of elect people of God is in the New Testament when the Lord give the commission to preach the gospel to all the nations. Not only they added the word “only”, they conveniently forgets Israel was (and still is) God’s people in the Old Testament. But Matthew 1:21 was still in the Old Testament period. It is a grievous and silly mistake to take Matthew 1:21 to be in the New Testament period just because it is in the New Testament scripture! For those who have made such a mistake, simply did not take God’s Word seriously, especially those who knows Biblical Hermeneutics! This is a matter so fundamental and so simple! The truth that the atonement is universal can also be established from the fact that the gospel was preached to Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. Adam is the representative of all men, elect or non-elect. And so the promise of salvation was given to all men by implication.
William Lee, [[ But Matthew 1:21 was still in the Old Testament period. It is a grievous and silly mistake to take Matthew 1:21 to be in the New Testament period just because it is in the New Testament scripture! For those who have made such a mistake, simply did not take God’s Word seriously, especially those who knows Biblical Hermeneutics! This is a matter so fundamental and so simple! ]]=>your post RESPONSE : I agree with you that when Matthew wrote this verse, he was still in the OT era......Because The New Testament actually started in Acts chapter 2, when the apostles and the disciples of Jesus received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.... However, It was Jesus whose mission was to change the OT era into the NT era......It was His death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and pouring out of the Holy Spirit to the believers that fulfilled the New Testament era.... Therefore the verse Matthew 1:21 is applicable to the New Testament time..... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ [[ The truth that the atonement is universal can also be established from the fact that the gospel was preached to Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. ]]=>your post RESPONSE : Can you please give us a verse to support that the gospel was preached to Adam and Eve?......Thank you.....
Wait, so you are saying God has permitted double payment for sin? You're saying Jesus died for ALL men, and yet some men still go to hell for that sin? So the penalty was paid twice! How is that compatible with grace at all? In the world of men, that is this world, we would consider it unjust to punish two people for the same crime. But your assertion make it so.
It seems we need to focus more on Christ and less on naming ourselves a Calvinist, etc. The body of Christ is spread about because of denominations. We need to pull together and obey the great commission
I would disagree with the doctrine of limited atonement. I don't find it biblical and scripture would argue otherwise. And to clear up other things that might be misunderstood, I don't believe everyone is saved either. All I'm saying is that Christ was the atoning sacrifice for all sin, but it does not mean that all sin was automatically forgiven. It simply means that the offering to secure forgiveness for the whole world has been made. And I believe we are Justified by faith(in Jesus) apart from the works of the law(Romans 3.28) 1 John 2:2 [2]He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. 2 Peter 2:1 [1]But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them-bringing swift destruction on themselves. John 3:16 [16]For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 1 Timothy 2:4 [4]who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
So out of context. Typical calvinistic religious blindness. According to their view on God's sovereignty (favorite buzz word), when mankind fell into sin, damnation applied to ALL, but when salvation came, it's NOT FOR ALL. As usual, calvinists have a predisposition for negatives, suffering, misery and partiality. The result is always judgement, lack of grace, no power, no healing, no success. It's all about declaring Gods sovereignty amidst suffering. The end. Nonsense.
Jeremiah 19:5 says, “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I did NOT COMMAND or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.” and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it."
St. John, "For whom did Christ die?" Well Durbin, "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. HE IS THE PROPITIATION FOR OUR SINS, and NOT FOR OURS ONLY BUT FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: ..." (1 John 2:1-29)
I noticed that you had no responses in 2 years. Typical of calvinists to ignore the Words of God so they can hold their traditions of men. Sad stuff. I have about a dozen other verses proving the same thing.
1John 2:2 Christ died for the sins of the whole world! Jews and Gentiles have the free will to accept the free gift of salvation when convicted by Holy spirit.
Ab_Bowhunter, a belief that Jesus only died for some of His creations. That God has predestined our every thought and action, so, God has willingly predestined His creations to hell.
one question Jeff..... does God confirm your word with signs and wonders? not converts but signs and wonders? dead raised? leapers clensed? blind see? casting out demons? very intellectual but truth? questionable !
Interpretation of more complicated than people who are BORN AGAIN...WHO have recognized the sin which separates us from God. Repent of it: turned our WILL and removed ourselves from the throne of our lives and asked CHRIST to forgive us and assume sovereignty over our life... turned from sin and to Christ to assume control. Trust Christ to guide us, free us from bondage of sin and offer us salvation; eternal life in heaven. CHRIST will change the heart of those who cry out for his care,love, and forgiveness. Sin will no longer be enjoyable to New believer who prays and reads his scripture daily or regular basis...the more I study his scripture the more acutely I realize my need for his help to live in a way I can feel shameless before GOD in prayer. Living a righteous life becomes a by-product of faith and Not a requirement of. .... This is truly amazing.... I am not sure of this or Armenian doctrines does it matter???? Did not GOD MAKE THIS SO SIMPLE A CHILDREN CAN GRASP????? PLEASE .... I AM NOT SURE BUT HOW IMPORTANT IS THIS ???? CAN IT BE DEFERRED SAY 10 YEARS???
The child of God can fall from grace (Gal 5:4; Heb 6:4-6; Acts 8:9-24). The Perseverance of the Saints is not a valid doctrine. If a child of God can fall from grace, then God's grace must not be irresistible so the doctrine of Irresistible Grace falls. And if God's grace is not irresistible, then a person must be free to choose whether he will accept that grace or not. So the doctrine of Unconditional Election falls. And if a person is free to make the good choice to accept God's grace, we cannot say that Christ died only for the elect. We must say, along with the apostle Paul (1 Tim 2:6), that He died for the sins of all people. So the doctrine of Limited Atonement collapses. And if a person can make a good choice, he must not be "wholly defiled in the all the faculties of soul and mind." Therefore, the doctrine of Total Depravity falls. The Bible doesn't teach 'total depravity to the point of uselessness and unaccountability'/'we are all robots subject to the divine puppet master'. God 'exegetes' sin for us in Genesis 4; "If thou do well, shalt thou not receive? but if ill, shall not sin forthwith be present at the door?"
Every Protestant that proclaims that we are justified by Faith Alone should HEAR these FOUR words by James 2:24 RINGING in their EARS: "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." "not by faith alone." The Protestant Scripture Twister Series #4 - Luther 2:24 ruclips.net/video/UoYYXo7wjdQ/видео.html
Christian Virtue & Grace sin is more than just something we do, it’s our nature. We could never save ourselves by our works. If you believe in that you don’t understand the holiness of God and the depravity if our sinful nature. And you deny the work of Christ.
@@aleczamora6993 I didn't say one word about works. We are depraved because we were deprived of sanctifying grace. Our nature is not totally depraved. It is fractured for sure. But both the Old Testament and the New Testament point to people who were righteous. In this brief comment above, I giveno indication of denying Christ. You should take a high-school course in CRITICAL THINKING before making untrue claims.
Stop taking things out of context. Read the whole chapter. Really, the whole book. You can't just grab one verse. In this context, the works are the evidence of the faith that you have. If someone says, "I love God", but they're still living like the devil, do they really love God? At the same time, no amount of good works makes us sinless/perfect, which is God's standard for heaven. So our works can't ever save us, because how do we know when we've done enough? All of that aside, what does this have to do with the message? Which statement in this video did you disagree with, and upon what biblical basis? Give the time stamp.
@@Yesica1993 Let me ask you the question above: Can Faith Alone Save You? James 2:14 [14] What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? The context starts in James 1.
I do not believe that God has predestined certain folks to go to heaven or hell. That is bull. I plead with you not to listen to any preacher who peach such hertical untruths they believe is right. If God already knows who will be saved what is the point of evangelism? This is Calvinism
I am going to give you a Bible verse that IRREFUTABLY proves that Jesus died for ALL mankind, and NOT just for the church. Many foolish believers have bought into lie that Jesus didn't die for those who go to Hell. Nothing could be further from the truth. Jesus Christ shed His blood for ALL mankind. 2nd Peter 2:1 clearly states... “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.” Did you read that? ... "Even DENYING THE LORD THAT BOUGHT THEM." According to the Calvinist heresy of "limited atonement," Jesus only redeemed those whom He knew would one day get saved. The Word of God never teaches limited atonement; on the contrary, the Bible states, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." How could anyone teach that Christ only died for certain sinners, when we're ALL sinners!
Matthew 7: 13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, AND THERE ARE FEW WHO FIND IT. Romans 5:18 Therefore, as through one man’s offence judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. Jesus also took upon Him the Curse of Paradise. Dutch is my first linguist. I grew up with the Belgium confession and the Heidelberg Catechisms The L in T.U.L.P. Stands for “Limited Atonement” is a Mistranslation from to Dutch, Which is the linguist It was translated from to English. The 5 articles were a response on the 5 articles of the remonstrant written in 1610 by the Arminian Uittenbogaard . He wrote the 5 articles that the synod of Dordrecht 1618 - 1619 opposed to. There were 62 Dutch delegates, and 27 foreign delegates representing eight countries. The word which Uittenbogaard used means: “Particular Atonement” and Christ Died particularly for every person of the whole world. Which is borderline to universal redemption. The Synod upheld the Sufficiency of the dead Of Christ for the whole World and if it was for 1000 worlds, but opposed the idea of Particular redemption for every person ever born. At the time that this controversy on the Synod of Dodrecht Calvin had already Died in 1564, and had nothing to do with it. The true meaning of limited atonement is stated in these articles that were written and put together by the delegates of the Synod to explain the Atonement Of Christ. 2-3. This death of the Son of God is the only and perfect sacrifice and satisfaction for sins; of infinite power and dignity, abundantly sufficient to atone for the sins of the whole world. 2-4. And this death is therefore of such great power and dignity, because the person who suffered it is not only a truly and utterly Holy Man, but also the only begotten Son of God, of one eternal and infinite being with the Father and the Holy Spirit, such as our Savior must be. Moreover, because his death has been attended with the sense of the wrath of God and of the curse which we have deserved by our sins. 2-5. Furthermore, the promise of the gospel is, that whosoever believeth on Christ crucified shall not perish, but have eternal life; which promise to all nations and men, to whom God, according to his good pleasure, sends his gospel, must be proclaimed and presented indiscriminately, with a commandment of repentance and faith. 2-6. But that many, being called by the gospel, repent not, neither believe in Christ, but perish in unbelief, this is not for want or insufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ offered on the cross, but through their own unbelief. COMMENTARIES OF JOHN CALVIN ON THE BIBLE. “He makes this favor common to all, because it is propounded to all, and not because it is in reality extended to all; for though Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and is offered through God’s benignity indiscriminately to all, yet all do not receive him.” [Calvin’s Commentary on Romans 5:18] Nevertheless, forasmuch as it is not in us to discern between the righteous and the sinners that go to destruction, but that Jesus Christ has suffered His death and passion as well for them as for us, therefore it behoves us to labour to bring every man to salvation, that the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ may be available to them ...” [Sermon CXVI on the Book of Job (31:29-32)] “The word many is not put definitely for a fixed number, but for a large number; for he contrasts himself with all others. And in this sense it is used in Romans 5:15, where Paul does not speak of any part of men, but embraces the whole human race.” [Calvin’s Commentary on Matthew 20:28] “For he intended expressly to state [in John 3:16] that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favour of God, YET HE SHOWS HIMSELF TO BE RECONCILED TO THE WHOLE WORLD, when he invites all men without exception to faith in Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.” (Calvin’s Commentary on the Gospel of John)
Limited Atonement is the only part of TULIP that I don't feel right about. I don't know how anyone who says they love God could be totally accepting of it. It actually sounds like a test. Imagine on Judgement Day God saying... "Really?!? I saved you and you know you didn't deserve it... and you never even lifted a finger or whispered a prayer to save your neighbor?" Don't think just because God is sovereign that you can't argue with Him or ask that He change His mind. Would you want your neighbor to be okay with you going to Hell?
@@MansterBear Why teach the atonement is limited at all unless you think it's a fact set in stone? So if you believe only some will be saved, then why would you ever pray all will be saved? You would have to help me understand. I guess I'm assuming those who believe in limited atonement don't do that. Am I wrong?
@@danielelam5513 Only universalists think that all will be saved. I'm still exploring Calvinism vs Arminianism vs something in the middle. Limited atonement just means that Jesus died for the people who will be saved. He didn't die for those who won't be saved. The basis of this reasoning is addressed around 55:40 . Romans 8 seems to say that Jesus is interceding for the ones he died for. If he died for all, he interceded for all. If he intercedes for all, then all will be saved (universalism). It doesn't have an effect on who you pray for, or who you witness to. If TULIP is right, and only the ones God chose will be saved, we have no way of knowing who that is. They still need to hear the Word, so Calvinists preach to all, just as anyone else would. My pastor isn't a calvinist, and I've been asking him about some of this recently, and one of the first things he said was that the Calvinists are known for their outreach and witnessing. I'm sure they pray that God's will be done in anyone's life, just as we should all pray. It's not about what we want, it's about what God wants. Jeff prays at the beginning of his sermons that God use him to preach God's Word, and that people will hear it and be changed. I'm sure it's similar to that. You pray and want your neighbor to be saved, but with the recognition that it's ultimately up to God and God's will.
@@MansterBear If you read the Wikipedia on Universalism, it's not quite the same. It doesn't mean all beliefs are valid. I still believe in one truth and as a Christian I believe that truth came embodied as Jesus. Universalism is more inclusive of beliefs and things like morality and truth are considered relative. Hinduism, as an example, is Universalist in nature and will say things like "all paths lead to God". I don't believe that at all. It sounds nice but I know it's false. I don't believe truth or morality could be relative. As for praying that everyone will be saved, that's just an issue of the heart for me. If I was in the same boat as everyone else, I would not want a single soul to go to wander into the outer darkness away from God because they lacked the gifts and grace to believe in Christ. Armenians, to me, seem hard hearted and incapable of knowing what grace actually means. They still seem to believe they are doing things that only God could have given them the ability to do as gifts. I don't argue with them though. I don't completely believe in (absolute) Freewill because I know from my own experience I had an intellectual block to believing Christianity was even possible. I was raised Christian and got "saved" as a teen. But for whatever reason I seemed to have zero faith or ability to believe shirt after that. Most unbelievers might say I just "got wise" and grew a brain... but I see that completely differently now. I spent several years searching for truth in other religions and wound up a naturalistic atheist. It wasn't like I was secretly knew Christianity was true and I was denying it in my mind or heart. I was a sincere truth seeker. I just couldn't "see". I used to read books by Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, and Sam Harris... I thought Science was the only valid truth we could have and that the Bible seemed illogical and ridiculous. But I'm a huge believer in irresistible grace now. It's hard to explain but it felt like Jesus was following me everywhere I went and one day... I just believed. I tried running from it but couldn't. I saw the world in a different light and I just knew Christ was real. We are all born lost and broken... including me. This world is plagued by a distortion we call sin. I also saw for the first time (or felt) life couldn't be an accident and truth couldn't be relative. The Bible does say faith is a gift and I can believe that at an experential level. I can look at atheists and believe completely they're incapable of faith. I was once there too. It's alluring to want to have knowledge of everything but they can't seem to see how that couldn't be possible by observing just the natural world. They can't "see" Christ in their hearts or minds. (Not that I'm denying the usefulness of science. Just acknowledging it's limits.) I think the only piece of advice I would give anyone is that you take the time to ask God for the faith, grace, and gifts you need to know the truth. Whatever that might actually be. Keep in mind life is a journey and prayers aren't always seen instantaneously... But I have no doubt if you pray that He will personally hunt you down and guide your steps. You'll come to understand what irresistible grace means as an experience. It's a lot like the analogy of Lazarus being raised up from the dead. I didn't have to read Calvinist theology to believe that. I just recognized a huge chunk of it was true. Limited atonement though? I don't see why I should blindly believe that.
@@danielelam5513 When I said universalists, I meant in the sense of Christianity, not in all religions. A universalist Christian believes that Jesus died for everyone's since... therefore every person is forgiven, and all will go to heaven, regardless of what they do in life. Anyone who isn't a Universalist believes atonement is limited in some form. There's basically 3 options: 1. Jesus died for everyone and his atonement is 100% effective, so everyone is saved and everyone goes to heaven. 2. Jesus died only for the elect/predestined and his atonement is 100% effective (Calvinism) 3. Jesus died for everyone but his atonement is NOT 100% effective, and people need to "activate" it by their choice. Calvinism would state that Romans 8 tells us that Jesus intercedes for the people that he died for, therefore, it can't be that he died for everyone, or else he would be interceding for everyone, which would mean that everyone is saved and everyone goes to heaven, because all of their sins are paid for. Otherwise, you have a God who sends people to hell for their sins, even though Jesus paid for their sins, which wouldn't be just. That's a great testimony, btw. So are you a 4 point Calvinist then? Everything except the Limited Atonement?
Ricky Sandoval Christ died for all, offering *every* sinner Salvation. Whether the sinner accepts the offer determines they're status of eternity. God bless you Ricky. Werner
Hey Ryan, Thank you for your concern for your brothers but this predestination doctrine makes God to be immoral. Why does God choose to damn someone over the other? Surely, of course it's within God's right to damn or to save but God is omnimalevolent, it's not within His nature act unloving (in damning someone groundlessly) God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentence. 2 Peter 3:9 With Love, Werner *Soli Deo Gloria* :)
If that is the case, someone needs to present a careful argument against Calvinistic limited atonement that doesn't rely on universalism arguments. Pretty much everyone will argue for universal salvation in order to disprove a limited atonement, then when you point it out, they respond emotionally: how dare you! They just want you to throw away the argument when dealing with an actual universalist, but it is unclear why. I'd love to see a clear argument that navigates both issues and properly limits the atonement in the way they want that isn't Calvinism but isn't universalism. Most people can't even give a clear definition of atonement in the first place.
A month ago I became aware of predestination and election while studying the Bible. It honestly scared me because I immediately thought of my loved ones. What if they're not chosen? My children? I wept. I couldn't bear the thought of it. I couldn't eat for over a day. I was distraught. But I couldn't fight against what Words were in front of me. (Paul was ready to give an answer to every objection we'd have.) Did not Paul weep knowing that his brothers (fellow Jews) were cast off (not completely, of course)? Isn't it our immediate reaction to think of others before ourselves? Paul said that if he could he would rather he be cast off and his fellow Jews be saved. That's the way most people see it from. They think of their loved ones not being chosen and not the fact that God graciously chose them. I tried to view things from the other stand point but nothing could stand up to Scripture. I vowed to skip reading Romans. It was a stumbling block. Everything I'd ever known wasn't true. I wanted to live in la la land. But I went to church which I hadn't been to in several weeks. What do you think we were assigned to read? The book of Romans. I told God that He would have to force me to believe it and to comfort me in it. So here I am. A believer in predestination and election. No more fear in it. I actually pray more for my loved ones. I am more determined and renewed in teaching my 6 and 4 year old about God's Word. I prayed God would give my mom a desire for His Word and shortly after my mom told me she was reading her Bible again. One thing I want to add is that anyone who argues against Calvinism never take on Romans 8-9. I wanted to believe in Arminianism but the arguments were weak. My aunt, who doesn't believe in the Calvinism view, told me to rest in the Lord and to ask the Holy Spirit to reveal it to me. I fought the truth. I mocked the truth. (I asked for forgiveness many times). But was able to embrace it. I feel like Kevin from Home Alone, "I'm not afraid anymore!"
People who disagree with the doctrine of election I know your objections. I also had them (many of them). I know where you are coming from. I fought it for weeks but was determined to come out with the truth. It's not as scary as you think. Like Pastor Jeff said the saved cannot be numbered and Abraham's promise was that the promised seed (not all Israel is Israel) was as numbered as the stars and the grains of sand. You can't number either. It's not as hopeless as you think (as I thought). Be encouraged.
And you preached it in a gracious way. I have listened to others speak about it and be totally condescending towards the opposing views. Don't you people get it?! We fight/fought it because we are scared of our loved ones not being chosen! And I applaud you for ending it on a high note. A lot of people tend to think that the number of those chosen is so few but we are as numbered as the stars. Thank you! I have left more encouraged and comforted with this sermon. I cried at the end of this because my brother is an atheist and I have been praying for a while that God would open his eyes and unharden his heart. For you to repeat those words of opening others eyes gave me so much peace. Jesus didn't tell us to keep bugging the Judge and knocking on our neighbors door for no reason (Luke 18). I will pound that door down for those I love. And God will get all the glory.
And I wouldn't label myself as a Calvinist. Just that I believe those He foreknew He predestined. Chosen before the foundation of the world. I believe Christ's blood covers only the sins of those who believe which I think is what both limited atonement and non limited atonement believers believe. They disagree on how far it reaches but both can agree it covers only those who believe.
Deanna Auchampach Your story is very similar to mine. God bless you sister!
Heather Hines I'm happy to report that my brother is no longer an atheist! I never expected it to happen so soon. He sought the Lord when he was concerned for his girlfriend. And God responded to him by leading him to a verse. Thank you, Lord! Anyone reads this DO NOT LOSE HEART. Be persistent in prayer. Lean not on your own understanding. Trust in Him.
Deanna Auchampach Wow!!! Hallelujah! That’s awesome! God is so awesome!
Thank you for sharing. It's so encouraging. And I praise the Lord for your brother.
I am finding myself to be a full blown Calvinist in a cage on an island. Praise be to God, I'm not worthy but He loved me first... I just can't wrap my head around why. My eyes have been opened so much more.
Good stuff Jeff. Glory to God
speechless wow just this man just preached the grace of God god bless you literally made me cry someone finally preaching grace and not condemnation
If a child of God approaches The Word of God ( Scriptures) prayerfully with a humble heart and a teachable spirit, expecting to learn, I am 100% convinced that that's exactly what will happen by the leading of The Spirit...
I did that. He showed me beyond a shadow of a doubt that Calvinism is 100% false. Calvinists are heretics who do not and CANNOT preach the Gospel of Christ.
I can talk to any person on the planet and tell them "Christ died for your sins." They CAN'T do that, because they think Christ only died for the elect. The best they can do is "Christ MAY HAVE died for your sins, if you were chosen before the foundation of the world". Which, by the way, was NEVER SAID by any of the apostles. They ALL preached the true gospel of Christ.
Calvinists make them out to be liars because there are several times in scripture when the apostles share the gospel with people who reject it. So apparently Christ DIDN'T die for those people's sins, and the aposles have lied.
There is no Gospel in calvinism. There is no good news for anyone! If someone isn't elect, then Christ's death doesn't matter! And if someone IS elect, Christ's death STILL doesn't matter. They were already secure before Christ ever did anything.
1 Corinthians 15.1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Galatians 1.8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
If anyone believes the "gospel of election" they're going straight to hell like a bullet.
Jeff is amazing as always
Here is absolute Biblical proof that God does NOT cause or determine everything; In Jeremiah 19:5 God says, “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I did NOT COMMAND or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.” and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it."
Thank you for the message of hope, Pastor Durbin!
Only hope for the elect in which you will never be certain you are among the elect. So thus....a hopeless message
Romans 12:18 Christian Standard Bible (CSB)
18 If possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
Just found this verse for pas anthropos which means every individual
1 Timothy 2:4 Christian Standard Bible (CSB)
4 who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Here is absolute Biblical proof that God does NOT cause or determine everything; In Jeremiah 19:5 God says, “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I did NOT COMMAND or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.” and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it."
My Salvation experience was almost identical and we have that growing intimacy as I continually seek to learn more of my loving Saviour...
this helped me so much! Praise God!
Here is absolute Biblical proof that God does NOT cause or determine everything; In Jeremiah 19:5 God says, “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I did NOT COMMAND or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.” and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it."
great job brother. love your channel!
I love this
Andres LovesJesus
If God has put a spell on you, to change your true nature of hate for Him, then is that really love?
Like if someone used a date rape drug to get himself a wife who would have normally despised the guy. Is that love on her part?
How about with God. If He made people guilty from conception based upon another man’s sin and then gives him a nature which necessarily must chose evil and hate good and could have never done otherwise, is that man a criminal or a victim?
Is God throwing people into eternal damnation, whom God made guilty and kept guilty?
Doesn’t Calvinism take away from the guilt of man, and place it on God?
Am I missing something here?
Evan U please read proverbs 16:4, 1 peter 2:8 , Jude 1:4
I can give a biblical response to Compatibilism in Genesis 50 , Isaiah 10, acts 4 but I wanna get to the main point with u Brotha, and is the biblical teaching of Grace. For example I’m not obligated to wash your car but if I wash your car that will be an act of grace
, same thing with God.God is not obligated to save no one but the very fact that he saves even one rebel sinner is an act of grace. so the doctrine of election and limited atonement defines what grace really is because grace to be grace must be absolutely free.
Andres LovesJesus
Pro 16: 4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
What is the day of evil?....
Jer 17: 17 Be not a terror unto me: thou art my hope in the day of evil.
18 Let them be confounded that persecute me, but let not me be confounded: let them be dismayed, but let not me be dismayed: bring upon them the day of evil, and destroy them with double destruction.
It is God’s judgement upon the nations.
How does God implement His judgement?.....
Isa 10: 5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.
Hab 1: 6 For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not theirs.
God uses the wicked for carrying out His wrath on a nation. That’s all the Proverbs 16:4 is saying......
2Tim 2: 20 ¶ But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
1Pe 2: 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
Why were some Jews appointed to disobedience?.....
Eze 34: 20 ¶ Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD unto them; Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat cattle and between the lean cattle.
21 Because ye have thrust with side and with shoulder, and pushed all the diseased with your horns, till ye have scattered them abroad;
22 Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle.
23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
Mal 3: 16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
Mal 4: 1 ¶ For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
God gave them all one last chance to repent through John the Baptist.....
Mat 21: 31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
So yes, the fat cattle and those who despised God were appointed to destruction. Those who feared Him would come to Christ and become His jewels. That’s why many of the Jews were hardened to prevent them from believing. They were of the fat cattle.
Jude 1: 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Same reason for this one with the last one.
God bless
Andres LovesJesus
Grace can be grace based upon a condition. So long as that condition doesn’t merit what is being given.
Faith is not a meritorious act. It’s not a way of earning anything. Even fearing God is not worthy of salvation, but God can freely make His choice based upon these conditions if He so chooses.
Wouldn’t you agree that He has the right to do that?
Thank you.
Brother Jeff, Grace, Peace, and LOVE. That was excellent, YHWH Did HIS Thing on that one and really put it down! Praise be to Our MIGHTY GOD, Magnifying YESHUA Ha-KADOSH MASHIAC, to the Glory of GOD The HOLY FATHER, by the Power n Adoption of The ALMIGHTY HOLY SPIRIT. Go get'em my Holy Cross-eyed Brethren, persevering and Keepin that rugged Bloody cross in one eye and that Majestic Bloody Mercy Seat or Throne of YHWH YESHUA in the other eye, for either way your eyes are on The Worthy HOLY LAMB.
Here is absolute Biblical proof that God does NOT cause or determine everything; In Jeremiah 19:5 God says, “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I did NOT COMMAND or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.” and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it."
i would prefer to call it PARTICULAR than limited atonement.
Psalm 78:41
If one believes Jesus accomplishes the exact same for ALL, and nothing more, this would mean that people, who end up in heaven, are not there because of what Jesus did... because... he accomplished the exact same, and nothing less, for those who end up in hell!
This would mean that those who are in heaven are there because of something other than what Jesus accomplished!
If this is true then Jesus does not save anyone! This would mean you are saved by “something other than Jesus”... if you end up in heaven!
Good stuff🤠☝️
Romans 9:11 proves Calvinism is right. Just like he is preaching about . I follow the Bible who said we don't.
"If anyone says that it is not in the power of man to make his ways evil, but that God produces the evil as well as the good works, not only by permission, but also properly and of himself, so that the betrayal of Judas is no less his own proper work than the vocation of Paul, let him be anathema.... If anyone shall say that the grace of justification is attained by those only who are predestined unto life, but that all others, who are called, are called indeed, but do not receive grace, as if they are by divine power predestined to evil, let him be anathema."-Council of Trent, Decree on Justification, cans. 6,17.
Shelly Belt
yet Romans 10:13, John 3:16, Luke 14:15-24, etc says it's wrong.
One verse may summarize the Doctrines of Grace, but I don't think one verse proves it. Just like no one verse disproves it. Because, most frequently, the anti-calvinist will take one verse out of its context, like John 3:16, and say "this proves Jesus died for the whole world" when actually it says no such thing, not even in context. What the verse said when written was not God sooooo loved the world, but God loved the world in this way...
Nor does John 3:16 say a single thing about "who so ever will" I think it's the consistent message of the Scripture that teaches the Doctrines of Grace. Free-willers meanwhile tread dangerously close to Pelagian heresy.
@@blchamblisscscp8476 perhaps you can help me....
The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that ALL MEN through him might believe.
John 1.7
That was the true Light, which lighteth EVERY MAN that cometh into the world.
John 1.9
John 1.29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of THE WORLD.
John 3.17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the WORLD through him might be saved.
John 12.32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL MEN unto me.
John 17.21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that THE WORLD may believe that thou hast sent me.
Romans 5.18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon ALL MEN to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life.
Romans 11.32 For God hath concluded them ALL in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon ALL.
1 Corinthians 15.22 For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive.
2 Corinthians 5.14-15 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died FOR ALL, then were all dead: And that he died FOR ALL, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
1 Timothy 2.4-6 Who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Who gave himself a ransom for ALL, to be testified in due time.
Hebrews 2.9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY MAN.
2 Peter 3.9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.
1 John 2.2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.
1 John 4.14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the WORLD.
I have a sincere question for ANY CALVINIST willing to reply...
Let's assume for just 2 seconds that Christ DID die for every last person on earth and "limited atonement" is false... just for 2 seconds.... ok?? I know you think he didn't, but IF he HAD.... IF Christ actually DID die for everybody.... how ELSE would you expect him to say it, other than EXACTLY how he said it???
Seriously....
IF limited atonement were false... what MORE could he say to get you to understand, other than EXACTLY what he said???
Oh, we can only be saved unless God draws us? Well, here is the answer to that:
John 12:
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
Jesus draws ALL men.
and yet, not all men are drawn to him
@@rk5782 Jesus draws all men (Bible) but not all men are drawn to him (Bible)?
So glad I don't have to change my mental landscape to sort out stuff like this...
A complete abuse of John 12:32
Jesus is speaking to the Greeks in this passage because they are concerned that only the Jews were only going to be saved. But Jeusus says no, he will draw all men to him. This verse is about Jews and Gentiles. How can you avoid universalism with that kind of exegesis?
@@6.0hhh "How can you avoid universalism with that kind of exegesis?"
By citing other passages that contradict it.
The Bible is the big book of multiple choice.
@@JMUDoc "The bible is a big book of multiple choice"
So anyone can pick and choose what to believe? You need to be careful about how talk about the Word of God. God's Word isn't "multiple choice."
Spot on 👌
wow... "Denomination: Reformed" to say that we need to further atone would mean Jesus is insufficient! Jesus is most definitely sufficient
There are many things that I have learned that are not easily shared and can not be widely shared because so many are unable to receive, they stagnate in learning though fear of the enemy and believing that they have learned pretty much all there is, they have put restrictions on the Lord that should not be and shipwreck their Learning so that they can no longer grow. The Spirit doesn't miss lead us and when Jesus says, My sheep hear my voice it is a guarantee that we should trust in because He is leading us so we won't listen to any other voice. The commands of the Old Testament become promises to us E.g. You will not lie, you will not steal. This is the same as when our Lord said to the storm, be still or Lazarus come forth, His word cannot be denied, if He had said release Me, The Crucifixion would never have occurred, I hope my point is made. I am not trying to big note myself as none reading this would personally know me anyhow but too encouraged others that there is much much more too be known and it's yours for the asking and the effort on your part. I am nothing special just a fellow joyful slave of righteousness. If you are really born of The Spirit you can not possibly lose your Salvation so keep your eyes on ( Yeshua) our Lord Jesus and enjoy The Tremendous free gift that you have received...
Hasim Hodzic
You say that we can’t lose our salvation. I don’t believe that’s what the scriptures teach....
1Tim 5: 11 ¶ But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
Heb 3: 6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
7 ¶ Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12 ¶ Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
These are just two of dozens of passages that clearly say we can lose our salvation. We have life in Jesus. We’re in Jesus through faith. We must continue in Him to have life. That is to say we must be strong in the faith, steadfast unto the end.
God bless
Exactly you made a decision. Free will brother.
Jeff is a great Apologist and his love for Christ and evangelism is inspiring but this point in the Calvinistic doctrine couldn't be farther from what scripture actually says about who Christ died for. I cant imagine how self-righteous Calvinists feel when this topic comes up. 2 Corinthians 5:14-15 refutes this entire sermon
FENOMINAL, you just made yourself a universalist by trying to use 2 Corinthians.
This Calvinist would say when you quote 2 Cor 5:14-15 in order to refute limited atonement, you are interpreting "all" to mean all mankind. So, in that way, you are saying there are people in hell for whom Chist died. A couple of problems with that: you must conclude Christ failed to complete the task for which he was sent by the Father; Christ was wrong when he said all whom the Father had given him would come AND of those who come he would lose none; and the Word of God did return to Him void as the Gospel failed to deliver whomever rejected Christ if all were called equally, all were atoned equally, and all had equal opportunity to repent. This it appears far from refuting a limited atonement but rather the verse is referring to the elect. Other uses of "all" and "world" are the whole world was to be taxed by Augustus, the whole world went out to see John, Paul and the apostles upset the whole world. What effect did any of the Gospels have on China at that time? Or South America? When did the Britons\Rus\Japanese start pay taxes to Rome? World and all are frequently used as hyperbole.
Alternatively, if universal atonement is true, but universal salvation false, that means Jesus makes all people legally innocent before God through the atonement, but God sends innocent people to hell merely for not knowing what his son did. Sending innocents to hell is far more monstrous than the worst caricature of Calvinism I've heard.
@@oracleoftroy Christ makes atonement AVAILABLE for all mankind. You can't see that because you're still holding onto your other false calvinist premises. You think unlimited atonement would make Jesus a failure because you ALSO believe in unconditional election and irresistible grace. Christ is not a failure in the bible because he doesn't force atonement upon anyone. Christ is only a failure to the Calvinist.
Calvinists have no gospel.
@@kjvacp "Available"? So God killed his son to put a product out in the market of ideas? Besides, you make it sound like you believe in a limited atonement. The atonement is limited to those who produce in themselves a faith or belief that God looks on with partiality, and only then is the atonement actually applied.
I limit the atonement based on holy and righteous God's decision, you limit it to fallen wicked man's decision. Either way, the atonement isn't universally applied.
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.- (2 Peter 3:9), “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”- (1 Timothy 2:4) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.-( 1 John 2:2)
Pastor Jeff, I love how you are preaching the word of God! One question. You’ve mentioned a couple of times in different sermons that people will be in Hell “one day”, implying that no one is in Hell now. Where in the Bible are you basing this? Would love to know. I thought people where currently in Hell based off of the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.
The main concept comes from Rev 20: 14. I understand that there are some interesting translations, and it doesn't help that English has it's own weird history that complicates matters.
The idea is "lake of fire" == modern concept of hell, where death and hades are only cast in after the final judgement. But hell comes from the Old English hel, which is the place of the dead (which might be familiar if you've studied a bit of Norse theology), and is similar to (if not directly related to) Hades and somewhat similar to the Hebrew Sheol. I believe the KJV uses hell to mean the place of the dead before judgement, not in the modern sense as the final place of judgement / lake of fire.
The Five-Point Calvinist states that Christ died on the cross for the sins of the Elect. To say that He died for the sins of the Non-Elect is not reasonable. Since, according to their system, God has chosen some to be saved and chosen the rest to be lost, He cannot require the death of Christ for those He does not plan to save anyhow. Therefore, the atonement of Christ is limited to the Elect only.
If you have accepted Total Inability and Unconditional Election it is necessary to limit the scope of Christ's death on Calvary. The only problem is that the Scriptures directly state that the death of Christ was for every man and is effective for the sinner the moment he believes. In 1 John 2:2 it is said that His death was a propitiation (satisfaction) not only for our sins, but for the sins of "the whole world." In Hebrews 2:9, it says that Christ tasted death for "every man." 1 Tim. 2:6 says that He gave Himself a ransom for "all." John the Baptist declared in John 1:29 that Jesus was the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the "world." In Isaiah 53:6, the Word of God states that "all" have gone astray (I would assume that refers to all men in the world) and that the Lord laid on Jesus the iniquity of us "all." Since the gospel is for "whosoever will" and it consists of the good news that Christ died for sinners, I must believe that the atonement of Christ is not limited.
Not only is the atonement of Christ unlimited and offered to all men, but the Holy Spirit is presently working to convict the world (all men) of one sin. That sin is that Christ paid the penalty for their sins, but they do not believe on Him (John 16:8,9). God is "not willing that any should perish" (2 Peter 3:9) and it is said that He will "have all men to be saved (1 Tim. 2:4). In Scripture we find the Father giving the Son to the world, the Son tasting death for every man, and the Holy Spirit convicting the world. Since God's work must be our work, we should part company with Five-Point Calvinism right here. The Bible knows nothing of a limited atonement that comes from the vain intellectual reasoning of men.
John Trevett The Father chose the elect, the Son laid His Life down for the elect, and the Holy Spirit regenerates the elect. The Triune God is completely unified.
If, as you say, Jesus satisfied (propitiated) the wrath of God on behalf of all the people that ever lived and will live, then why do men go to Hell? If Jesus atoned for the sins of all men, then all their sins are paid for and all men should be going to Heaven. "They didn't believe" you'll proclaim, but isn't unbelief a sin? A sin that Jesus would have atoned for, if, in fact, He died for all the sins of all men. Think about it.
God does as He pleases, and you can be sure He did do as He pleased in having chose the elect (before the foundation of the world) and sending His Son, who laid His life down for the sheep (not the wolves/goats). The real wonder is that He shows anyone mercy. We all deserve Hell for our sins against a holy God.
Also, the word "world" has 10 different meanings in the book of John alone.
John 16:9 is the only unpardonable sin..we agree on that, yes? What you are saying is that God sends people to hell for not believing in what he never did for them (un-elect?)
Nicole Marie Well yes Jesus died for our sins, but you have to be willing to take that as truth and believe it. If you don't your still dead in your sins and you need to repent. That's pretty straightforward to me.
Limited Atonement is really just a subcategory of Unconditional Election. Both are completely false.
Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
This is the first Scripture mentioned as proof for Limited Atonement so we will start here. Christ certainly did die for those God gave Him to save. But who did God give Him? The Church. John 17 is talking about the elect that have chosen salvation through Jesus Christ. Make no mistake, there is still a distinction in the Word between God’s people, the Church, and the World. God gave the Church to Jesus, not specific people. But ANYONE could have been in the Church. Jesus died for ALL mankind in this age but salvation will only be applied to the believers.
Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
The use of the word “many” here makes a Calvinist think that Jesus did not die for all. This is a weak argument because all of mankind in this age is “many ” . As opposed to all of humanity since the beginning of time, only those of this age since Jesus could be born-again so the word “many” would be appropriate.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Jesus gave Himself for the Church specifically speaking but generally speaking He also died for the whole world (John 3:16, 17). We need to look at both sides, not just the one that fits our theology.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me ; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Calvinism sees these verses in John 6 to mean that God has chosen specific people to be saved and they will be drawn to the Gospel, be converted, and ONLY those people will be converted. The rest are going to Hell and never had a chance at salvation. These verses alone would seem to show that to be true until we see the context of the passage. First, go back to verse 35:
Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
This clearly states that a man has to come to Jesus; he has to make a choice. God does not make the choice for us. It is man’s responsibility to believe, not God’s. Believing is a choice that we freely have. Who has the power to make this choice? ALL those of this age that have heard the Gospel of Jesus dying for their sins (Romans 10:13-15).
John 6:45 clears up how the Father gives men to Jesus:
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God . Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father , cometh unto me.
How does the Father give men to Jesus? First, God teaches “all” . He brings the Gospel to all men so that they can receive Jesus. How does God bring the Gospel? Through the preaching of men (Rom 10:15,18). Second, the hearer of the Gospel makes a choice to learn of the Father God and to come to Him through Jesus. Jesus is the only Way to the Father (Joh 14:6). A learner is one that has made the choice to let Jesus be the Lord of their life; they are a disciple of Christ. So it is through man’s choice to become a disciple of Jesus Christ that God gives men unto Jesus. It has nothing to do with the Father picking out specific men ahead of time. God gives the Gospel to “all” because Jesus died for all. Those that believe, which could be anyone, are the ones that God gives to Jesus. When they are converted, they come to Jesus.
If Jesus did not die for the sins of the whole world, then the blood of Jesus did not have enough power in it. Calvinism says Jesus only died for predestined saints therefore they are decreasing the value of the blood. It just was not good enough to cover everyone’s sins I guess. Jesus only died for the Church because the Bible says He was given for the whole world (John 3:16, 17). The people of the Church are the only ones that enjoy the benefits of the atonement since they are the ones that accepted the sacrifice but it was made available to the whole world. Why else would Jesus tell us to go into all the world and preach the good news if it was not for the whole world (Mark 16:15)?
If Jesus did not die for the sins of the whole world, then God is not fair to all of mankind. He would be unjust by doing something for some but not for others. But that contradicts many Scriptures.
Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons
God does not respect certain people, in other words, favor certain men. He loves all of His creation the same and did the same action for all which is send Jesus.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world-
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself
These Scriptures prove that God loved all the world. His aim was to reconcile the entire world unto Himself. How marvelous is the God of the Bible!
Are you a universalist? You're saying that Christ died for everyone and that the Father draws everyone. If that is true, then according to John 6:44 and other passages, all would be saved. The Scriptures clearly teach however that some will be lost. So, either you accept universalism or Calvinism.
According to Reformed theology, God is obligated to give mercy to the elect.
Greg Jay Absolutely not! That is contrary to everything he said in this sermon!
@@ethanhocking8229 Whenever Calvinists are confronted with the shocking reality that God chooses to save some sinners with the vast majority being born, without hope, and being cast into hell forever, they almost always say that God is not obligated to save any and therefore He is gracious in saving some.
My point is that if there is such a thing as the elect, as defined by Calvinism, who were chosen before the foundation of the world to be saved, then God is obligated to save them.
You might not like my choice of words but this is the reality of it.
@@gregjay9933 no, God chose His sheep by His will.Doesn't the shepherd always choose His sheep and the parents choose who they adopt or others choose who they elect?
@@CBALLEN Show me the chapter and verse that says God chose His sheep by His will. In Jesus’ day, and even before He walked amongst the people, there were many Jews who had a genuine belief in God. It is these true believers that God gave to Jesus. These true believers believed the Word of God as spoken by the prophets and now they would believe the Words of Jesus. Now that Jesus’ ministry on earth has begun, these true believers, the sheep, hear His voice and Jesus said, “all the Father gives to me will come to me and I will never cast them out.”
Isaiah wrote "All of us like sheep have gone astray". Does this mean that only God's elect whom He chose before the foundation of the world have gone astray?
The word 'sheep' is used because it adequately describes people who are followers, whether of God or of the world.
@@gregjay9933 Here is Paul speaking to and about believers exclusively.Eph 1 1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,
To the saints who are in Ephesus, and care faithful1 in Christ Jesus:
2 dGrace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Spiritual Blessings in Christ
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing gin the heavenly places, 4 heven as he ichose us in him jbefore the foundation of the world, that we should be kholy and blameless before him. In love 5 lhe predestined us2 for madoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, These chosen are God's sheep known to Him and chosen before time.John 10:11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
Awesome message pastor Durbin. but I must point out, please don't lump all of us pre-mill dispensationalists together. I can't stand the "Left behind" series. And honestly most people that buy in to that series have never even heard of "Dispensations". They are completely ignorant of where they get their belief from and just swallow tradition feed to them in their childhood Sunday school. Oh and yes I whole heartedly believe in the doctrines of grace. great series given by you and Dr. White. God bless.
***** nothing. I am dispensational. I was pointing out most pretrib premill's are ignorant of where they get there eschatology from. Which is dispensations.
A basis? Yes sort of but inaccurate. Biblically.
Yes but in the series and the movies unbelievers are convinced and come to believe. According to scripture those who have heard the gospel and reject it are given a delusion and follow the beast.
Yes. Those saints that come to faith after the rapture are the ones who haven't heard the gospel yet. The ones who have now and reject it will be the ones under judgement during the tribulation. The ones who follow the antichrists' false religion.
Can i still be saved as a reformist? By the way this was a very convincing argument for calvinism.
Can I still be saved as a reformist? What? Lol.
Romans 11:11-24. I am surprised this scripture is not addressed in election talk...
If God did not chose to save some, nobody would choose to receive Jesus Christ.
“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me- just as the Father knows me and I know the Father-and I lay down my life for THE SHEEP....I call my own sheep by name and lead them out.”
John 10:14-15, 3
To the goats Jesus says:
“You do not believe because you are NOT my sheep....My Father HAS GIVEN THE SHEEP to me.”
John 10:27, 29
Jesus says:
“Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. You are my friends IF you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. You did not choose me, but I CHOSE YOU.”
John 15:13-16
Jesus did not choose the goats as his friends.
Jesus says:
“The Son of Man came....to give his life as a RANSOM for MANY (not all).”
Matthew 20:28
If Jesus ransomed the goats, they would all be saved.
“ I pray for them. I am NOT praying for the world (goats), but for those you have GIVEN ME, for they are yours. All I have is yours, and all you have is mine.” John 17:9-10
Jesus says he died for the sheep and at the same time told the unbelieving goats they were not his sheep so he did not die for them and Jesus specifically said he is not praying for the goats.
Jesus chose his friends and died for them, not people who were not his friends and who hated him.
If Jesus died for the unbelieving goats, then their sin of unbelief would be paid for and they would be saved.
Jesus says:
“I came down from heaven to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me: That I shall lose none of all he HAS GIVEN ME (the sheep) but raise them up at the last day.”
John 6:38-39
In John 10:28-30 Jesus said the sheep were all the Father had given him and he and the Father are one (in essence and purpose and will).
To have Jesus die for all the sins of people who the Father did not choose is to split the Trinity and make Jesus working against the Father’s will.
Jesus did not die for Pharaoh and other people already in hell nor the goats whom he knew were freely choosing to go to hell and not the elect of the Father.
Why would Jesus die for the goats already in hell?
We all freely choose to go to hell but God chooses to regenerate and save some and die for them. That is pure mercy and grace. When God makes some people spiritually alive, who are dead in sin and resisting God, Jesus becomes irresistible to them.
If Jesus is irresistible to you, then you are one of the Sheep Jesus died for. Jesus did not die for the goats who hate Jesus by their own free will.
Jesus says:
“My sheep listen to my voice. I know them and they follow me.”
John 10:27
“I lay down my life for the sheep!”
John 10:15
Do you know why you do not believe Jesus laid down his life for the sheep?
“You do not believe because you are not my sheep.”
John 10:26
Instead of worrying if Jesus died for the goats going to hell, people better receive this teaching by Jesus himself because Jesus says:
“There is a judge for the one who rejects me and DOES NOT RECEIVE MY WORDS; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day!”
John 12:48
Here is absolute Biblical proof that God does NOT cause or determine everything; In Jeremiah 19:5 God says, “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I did NOT COMMAND or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.” and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it."
Where is the church that Jeff Durbin and James White preach in?
Jeff Durbin's church is in Tempe, Arizona. Not sure about White
TCvzTV Thanks!
Dr. White is an elder in the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church.
@@bryceferguson9762 thank you. I'll stay away from there and stick with baptists who CAN preach the Gospel.
Romans 8:29-30 tells us, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” Ephesians 1:5 and 11 declare, “He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will…In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.” Many people have a strong hostility to the doctrine of predestination. However, predestination is a biblical doctrine. The key is understanding what predestination means, biblically.
The words translated “predestined” in the Scriptures referenced above are from the Greek word proorizo, which carries the meaning of “determining beforehand,” “ordaining,” “deciding ahead of time.” So, predestination is God determining certain things to occur ahead of time. What did God determine ahead of time? According to Romans 8:29-30, God predetermined that certain individuals would be conformed to the likeness of His Son, be called, justified, and glorified. Numerous scriptures refer to believers in Christ being chosen (Matthew 24:22, 31; Mark 13:20, 27; Romans 8:33, 9:11, 11:5-7, 28; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2, 2:9; 2 Peter 1:10). Predestination is the biblical doctrine that God in His sovereignty chooses certain individuals to be saved.
Predestination is an explicitly biblical doctrine. Yet the determination of predestination is not disconnected from the rest of God’s unchanging character (Malachi 3:6). It is connected to His foreknowledge (Romans 8:29, 11:2), His love (Ephesians 1:4-5), and His plan and pleasure (Ephesians 1:5). God’s desire is that all would be saved and come to repentance (1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9). Predestination is personal and relational, not capricious.
The most common objection to the doctrine of predestination is that it is unfair. Why would God choose certain individuals and not others? We must remember that no one deserves to be saved. We have all sinned (Romans 3:23) and are all worthy of eternal punishment (Romans 6:23). As a result, God would be perfectly just in allowing all of us to spend eternity in hell. However, God chooses to save some of us. He is not being unfair to those who are not chosen, because they are receiving what they deserve. God’s choosing to be gracious to some is not unfair to the others. No one deserves anything from God; therefore, no one can object if he does not receive anything from God. An illustration would be a man randomly handing out money to five people in a crowd of twenty. Would the fifteen people who did not receive money be upset? Probably so. Do they have a right to be upset? No, they do not. Why? Because the man did not owe anyone money. He simply decided to be gracious to some.
If God is choosing who is saved, doesn’t that undermine our free will to choose and believe in Christ? The Bible says that we have the choice-all who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10). The Bible never describes God rejecting anyone who believes in Him or turning away anyone who is seeking Him (Deuteronomy 4:29). The truths of God’s sovereign predestination and also man’s responsibility are not mutually exclusive. Somehow, in the mystery of God, predestination works hand-in-hand with a person being drawn by God (John 6:44) and believing unto salvation (Romans 1:16). God predestines who will be saved, and we must choose Christ in order to be saved. Both facts are equally true. Romans 11:33 proclaims, “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!”
We are incapable to “choosing” Christ on our own. When we are “dead” in our sins, we can choose nothing. Unless Christ calls us by name “Lazarus come forth “ You will never come
@@dkjazzz John 3:16 ESV / 7 helpful votes
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
1 John 1:9 ESV / 5 helpful votes
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Acts 2:38 ESV / 5 helpful votes
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
John 8:24 ESV / 5 helpful votes
I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”
2 Peter 3:9 ESV / 3 helpful votes
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
Revelation 3:20 ESV / 2 helpful votes
Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.
1 John 5:13 ESV / 2 helpful votes
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Ephesians 2:8-10 ESV / 2 helpful votes
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Romans 8:38-39 ESV / 2 helpful votes
For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
if we want God, he will then complete salvation in us.
From Matt 7:13,14 one would gather that there will be more perishing than saved. The great number that can't be counted, in Rev, is many, yes but few in terms of all of humanity.
Reformed theology= Strictly bible only
LOL okay
My question is for a man like Jeff. Where does personal choice come into his theology. He believes that we do not have free will but yet we have the ability to choose. And at that choose God or not. Is this a self refuting argument? And if it isn’t and Calvinism teaches that you can choose God? Do we have any reason to boast?
Calvinism does not teach you can choose God as a libertarian choice. Have you listened to any of Jeff Durbin's sermons in this series? What about other Calvinists such as Jeff White, John MacArthur, Steven Lawson, R C Sproul, James M Boice, and so on? Have you read any of the material such as Martin Luthur's magnum opus The Bondage of the Will? RC Sproul' Chosen by God? To name only two. The Calvinist believes man has creaturly free will, that is, a man makes choices according to his nature. Rabbits choose carrots over meat, a wolf chooses meat over carrots, and a natural man chooses sin over God. 1 Cor 2:14 says a natural man, that is a man without Christ, cannot please God. The things if God are stupid to him, foolishness. Romans 8:7 says the mind of a natural (unsaved) person does not accept the law of God and indeed -it cannot do so. It is unable to do so. Further, Jesus himself says no man has the ability to come to him unless the Father makes it possible. There is free will, but only to the extent creatures choose according to their nature. This is not refuted by any verse in the Scriptures taken in context. But to get a more thorough understanding I would recommend more reading or listening.
BL Chambliss, CSCP I’m totally tracking with you, I am. And granted I do listening to many of the men you mentioned. I’m not a big reader though. Besides the BIBLE of course.
But even so......let’s take the nature thing. Rabbits and Wolves. Totally get it. Totally tracking. So......
Are we all BORN, if you will......as wolves? And then? The Father draws us to be Rabbits? Or makes us Rabbits? Thus learning how to eat carrots?
OR
Are some only born as wolves and will forever be wolves. And are some born as rabbits but for the first years of their lives ACT like wolves and then learn to love carrots because they are actually Rabbits and will forever be Rabbits?
Former or latter?
@@aaronmacias1033 All are born in a state of reprobation, that is, as natural men (or women), that is, in the flesh. Jesus told Nicodemus"you must be born again." As a natural man you can't even see the Kingdom, much less enter it. You must be born from above. I think it is safe to say, in Jesus's statement to Nicodemas, all men are counted as natural in the reprobate sense. So, God doesn't need to actively condemn men to damnation. As it is said in Galatians 3:22, "But the Scripture hath concluded all under sin..." And in Romans 11:32 "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief..." Since the Bible says all men are concluded in sin, I have no choice but to come to the same understanding. No one is born the first time as saved or anathon. What happens is, in regeneration God changes us. So we are given new bearts, new wills, new desires. A natural man does not desire God (he might desire a god of his own description, and many do) but a regenerate man does desire God. He isn't perfect but the desire is to please God and has a love for the things of God and wants to subject himself to God. So, to answer you, the regenerate wolf will eat his vegetables. But only because those wolves were born again from God. They did not learn anything if their own volition. There are no rabbits born anywhere. I should have said, there are no people born saints, but rather all are born as God-haters. But there's another question which you might explore, and you almost asked it: look at infralasparian versus supralapsarian. The question deals with which God decreed first, the election of some or the fall of man.
1 CORINTHIANS 1:21
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save then that BELIEVE.
Q: According to 1 Corinthians 1:21 does it please God to save those that believe or does it please Him to save people so that then they can then believe after they’re born again?
**God has sovereignly decreed to choose for salvation, only those who would repent and put their faith in Christ.**
Just because it’s God’s will that all should be saved doesn’t mean His will is somehow thwarted when people freely reject Him because that’s the way He designed it.
Someone’s will is NOT someone actively willing and MAKING that thing come to pass.
It’s His will that all be saved does not equate to “He’s actively willing (a.k.a forcing) all to be saved”
**Tell me how do you reason with someone with no freewill?**
ISAIAH 1:18
18 COME NOW, AND LET US REASON TOGETHER, SAITH THE LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Pretty clear that even sinful man can reason with the Lord.
Why can’t the reformer accept who God has sovereignly decided save?
? how does limited atonement fit with 2 Corinth 5:19: That God has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that God was reconciling the WORLD to himself, not counting peoples sins against then and he has committed us to the message of reconciliation. I am uncertain how you evangelise without this message, what do you say to the sinner? Jesus has paid the price for your sin, or perhaps not? maybe or maybe not? all depends whether it is your sins he paid for or someone elses who is part of the elect? So do you tell them that up front? The Gospel message would be Christ dying for the sins of some of you in the crowd, I am unsure how to preach this
Christ _is_ reconciling the world, and that isn't a problem for limited atonement. Reconciling the world isn't equal to Christ reconciling every human being who ever was and ever will be.
As for the Gospel message, just preach like the apostles did. "God commands all people everywhere to repent." Those who God calls will heed his command.
KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC whoa! Brother! Chill! I was asking a sincere question. Christian unity is not found in doctrinally having all our t’s crossed and I’s dotted, but rather in celebrating the amazing grace and love of our God. I can see you have a zeal for truth, but in that pursuit please don’t stone other believers!
It’s been a year since I posted that question , Thankyou for taking the time to reply, A lot has happened in that year, and though I am unsure I wish to be labelled Calvinist or Armenian , I may be a “Calvinist” though I don’t feel it is helpful to be labelled. I
have had an amazing journey getting closer to Jesus. I went on a 20 day fasting and seeking the Lord, He delivered me from anger, I am now experiencing His amazing love and joy more than ever before so much so that I feel born again, again! My family say I have my head in the clouds and I am delusional , but I don’t mind , joy, peace, love, purity, freedom from condemnation, sin nature dead, and knowing my identity as His son! I’m holding onto that delusion!! 😀 Not sure which camp I belong in , or if there should be a camp, but this is what I believe. The atoning work of Christ was complete, he has payed the price for all of mankind’s sin forever , sin being condemned in his sinful flesh ( sinful with our sin) so through one man, Adam all died, so through the second Adam , all live “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.”(1 Cor 15) . So what the law was unable to do, Christ did, by condemning sin in sinful flesh. So sin was condemned in sinful flesh and he was risen for our justification.
This is the good news of our Gospel message, I agree it is not the sinners prayer, or come to Jesus so that you can be healed, or have a bigger bank account, but Come to Jesus because He bankrupted heaven and poured himself out not to save sinners but restore lost sons! One man died, so all men died! The gospel call is not to come to Jesus to live a happier life, but to die! He never came to make bad people better, but dead people alive and ironically to live we must first die to ourselves, it is the complete identification with him, abiding in him through his death , burial and resurrection, just as he fully identified with man in his death burial and resurrection. This is “unlimited”atonement for all, that is there is not one sin ever committed in the history or future of mankind that was not paid for by the blood of Christ. So we now have a message of reconciliation that Man has been reconciled to Christ , we can now walk with him again in the garden! It is the grace of God that opens our eyes to the gospel and we enter into and experience the love and reconciliation of God provided for us 2000 years ago through faith, and this is not from God, lest anyone boast. We find when we responded to his grace that we have been chosen and predestined as his elect before the foundation of the world. So will there be those that reject the love of God. Sadly , yes. I don’t think this changes Gods heart that he wishes all to be saved and has provided the open door for all to walk through. Many of my friends reject Gods love to pursue idolatory , worshiping other gods such as money and sex. So not sure if this makes me a Calvinist , perhaps I am ? Either way I will not stop sharing the gospel of the love of God through Christ.
Ps: is your name an acronym? I don’t get it
I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I WILL HAVE MERCY
The reason God has mercy on anyone is according to His Word and who HE’S DECIDED to have mercy on.
Not according to you.
Not according to me.
According to His Word.
So do you not know who God has mercy on as clearly revealed in HIS WORD?
Not my word.
Not your word.
HIS WORD.
Do you not know the scriptures?
Search them and you will clearly see WHO God in His sovereignty has decided to have mercy on.
Do you have a problem with who He’s decided to have mercy on?
Will you shake your fist at Him in defiance at who He wants to have mercy on?
God’s MERCY is one of His best attributes that He actually loves to showcase and longs to show off as we see with the story of Moses when God chose to showcase His glory to Moses.
How did GOD HIMSELF CHOOSE to showcase His glory?
What attributes did GOD HIMSELF CHOOSE TO REVEAL and PROCLAIM to Moses when He stood with him in the cloud on the top of the mountain?
God HIMSELF proclaimed His own name by showcasing His MERCY, His GRACE and His PATIENCE:
EXODUS 34:5,6
5 And THE LORD DESCENDED IN THE CLOUD, and stood with him there, and PROCLAIMED THE NAME OF THE LORD.
6 And the Lord passed by before him, and PROCLAIMED, THE LORD, THE LORD GOD, MERCIFUL AND GRACIOUS, LONGSUFFERING, AND ABUNDANT IN GOODNESS AND TRUTH
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Showing mercy actually EXALTS God which is why He patiently waits to extend it:
ISAIAH 30:18
18 Therefore the Lord WAITS TO BE GRACIOUS to you, and therefore he EXALTS HIMSELF to SHOW MERCY to you. For the Lord is a God of justice; blessed are all those who wait for him.
QUESTION: If God predestined those who would believe in Him already then who is God being patient and waiting for?
Himself?
Is God patiently waiting for HIMSELF to effectually save them?
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God doesn’t glory in our destruction but in His MERCY which is why He PATIENTLY WAITS for us because He is also Just and Holy and knows that ultimately He has to execute judgment according to RIGHTEOUSNESS which of course can only be found THROUGH Christ.
2 PETER 3:9
9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, BUT IS PATIENT TOWARD YOU, NOT WISHING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD REACH REPENTANCE.
God waits patiently for us to turn to Him in repentance.
To consider our ways with the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil that the fall brought and to forsake our ways and live by humbly admitting that we can’t save ourselves and admit that to the One who can!
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The following passage is crystal clear that God places the responsibility on man to repent, cast away and turn himself and in doing so shall live:
...According to Ezekiel 18:27-32 even the WICKED man has the ability to turn.
EZEKIEL 18:27-32
27 Again, WHEN THE WICKED MAN TURNETH away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, HE SHALL SAVE HIS SOUL ALIVE.
28 BECAUSE HE CONSIDERETH, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, HE SHALL SURELY LIVE, he shall not die.
29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. REPENT, and TURN YOURSELVES from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
31 CAST AWAY from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
32 FOR I HAVE NO PLEASURE IN THE DEATH OF HIM THAT DIETH, SAITH THE LORD GOD: WHEREFORE TURN YOURSELVES, AND LIVE YE.
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...According to Matthew 25:37 Jesus Christ Himself states He would have gathered Jerusalem but THEY WOULD NOT:
MATTHEW 23:37
37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and YE WOULD NOT!"
QUESTION: If God predestined before the foundation of the world who would believe then why is Jesus making this statement?
**Wouldn’t a better statement from Jesus be, “How often would I have gathered you but my Father did not choose you!”
Reformers make a mockery of Jesus’ genuine, heart-heart emotion in this passage essentially disregarding it as disingenuous.
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...According to John 5:39-40 Jesus Christ Himself is putting it on the Pharisees who will not come to Him to have life:
JOHN 5:39-40
39 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And YE WILL NOT come to me, that ye might have life."
QUESTION: If God predestined before the foundation of the world who would believe then why is Jesus making this statement?
**Wouldn’t a better statement from Jesus be, “You can’t come to me to have life because my Father did not choose you!”
57:37 ᗯOᗯ! He’s talking about pronouns, and here we are 5 years later skewing pronouns. The Bible is why pronouns are actually important.
Great message!
Durbin preaches twisted calvinist lies. Someone new wouldn't know exactly where he's throwing in Calvinist BS mixed with some truth.
For whom did Christ die? 1Ti_2:6 "Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." Nothing like scripture to answer the simple questions.
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLACPaul did not add that into the verse. Keep the verses where they belong, Matthew 20:28 cannot be added to this verse as it is part of a different program than the one God is using today called the body of Christ. Today salvation is freely given to anyone who trust the gospel of the grace of God,
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
(The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.-2 Peter 3:9) (For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.-1 Timothy 4:10 ) (“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” -1 John 2:2)
1. The blood of the lamb was available to ALL to apply to their doorposts.
2. The serpent on the pole was available to ALL to look upon.
3. Jesus is available to ALL who believe.
Nothing has changed.
Just because it’s available to all doesn’t mean all will believe and be saved.
He made a PROVISION.
1. The lamb’s blood on the doorpost was a PROVISION.
2. The serpent on the pole was a PROVISION.
3. Jesus Christ was a PROVISION
The atonement doesn’t save us.
It makes a PROVISION.
It makes salvation possible which is on and of itself the greatest accomplishment.
It provides a WAY that was otherwise unavailable.
Jesus is the WAY the truth and the life.
Providing a way for mankind, who otherwise would perish, is an incredible accomplishment beyond comprehension.
To say that Christ’s death didn’t accomplish anything tramples underfoot the very blood that He shed, counting it an unholy thing DESPITE THE SPIRIT OF GRACE.
What spirit of grace is trampled underfoot?
The very SAVING grace that is available to ALL in Titus 2:11:
TITUS 2:11
11 FOR THE GRACE OF GOD THAT BRINGETH SALVATION HATH APPEARED TO ALL MEN,
**SAVING grace is available to all.
If you freely choose to reject the provision of Christ’s blood DESPITE this grace then you are counting it unworthy to save you.
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If Jesus Christ Himself gave us an analogy of salvation would we believe it?
Because He does.
And it’s recorded in John 3 in the account of Nicodemus and not the account of Lazarus.
You must be born again, which is exactly what Jesus went on to tell Nicodemus in the succeeding verses of John 3 that reformers seem to ignore.
In response to Nicodemus’ question Jesus tells him clearly and plainly HOW to be born again.
He must BELIEVE in the one who will be lifted up in on the pole.
Yet reformers like to stop reading early on in John 3 and then try and tell Jesus what He means instead of just continuing to read Jesus’ own words and explanation.
How about we take Jesus Christ Himself’s analogy of salvation instead of using other passages that are meant to show His power over death and the grave and the resurrection.
These are Jesus words.
Will you sweep them under the rug and ignore His analogy:
JOHN 3:14,15
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, EVEN SO MUST THE SON OF MAN BE LIFTED UP:
15 THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.
God commanded us what to do all 3 times:
1. Strike (apply)
2. Look
3. Believe
**Moses understood and obeyed both times to the “T”.
He did not question.
**So why is it that when Jesus Christ Himself tells us clearly how to have eternal life in John 3:14,15 now all of a sudden reformers question Him?
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EXODUS 12:7
7 AND THEY SHALL TAKE OF THE BLOOD, AND STRIKE IT ON THE TWO SIDE POSTS AND ON THE UPPER DOOR POST OF THE HOUSES, wherein they shall eat it.
EXODUS 12:13
13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and WHEN I SEE THE BLOOD, I WILL PASS OVER YOU, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
** Even though the animals were killed and their blood shed that did NOT save them.
Their instructions were clear that they must APPLY the blood to the doorposts.
ONLY THEN would the Lord pass over their house.
If they forgot to apply the blood they would be slain in the night.
So to, Christ shed his blood for you and if you don’t BELIEVE and RECEIVE what He did for you, you will perish.
God needs to see His Son’s blood on the doorposts of your heart when He passes over you.
If He just sees it shed on the ground you will surely be destroyed.
EXODUS 12:22,23
22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and STRIKE THE LINTEL AND THE TWO SIDE POSTS WITH THE BLOOD that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.
23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; AND WHEN HE SEETH THE BLOOD UPON THE LINTEL, AND ON THE TWO SIDE POSTS, THE LORD WILL PASS OVER THE DOOR, AND WILL NOT SUFFER THE DESTROYER TO COME IN UNTO YOUR HOUSES TO SMITE YOU.
Q: Did the Israelites save themselves?
No. God saved them AFTER they freely applied the animal’s blood to their doorposts.
Q: Do we save ourselves?
No. God saves us AFTER we freely believe.
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NUMBERS 21:8,9
8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS, THAT EVERY ONE THAT IS BITTEN, WHEN HE LOOKETH UPON IT, SHALL LIVE.
9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, WHEN HE BEHELD THE SERPENT OF BRASS, HE LIVED.
** Even though the serpent was provided on a pole for everyone to look upon that did NOT save them.
Their instructions were clear that they must LOOK/BEHOLD the serpent on the pole.
ONLY THEN would the Lord heal them and they would live.
If they refused to behold the bronze serpent on the pole they would die.
So to, Christ shed his blood for you and if you don’t BELIEVE and RECEIVE what He did for you, you will perish.
Q: Did the Israelites heal themselves?
No. God healed them AFTER they freely beheld the serpent on the pole.
Q: Do we save ourselves?
No. God saves us AFTER we freely believe.
Does Jesus saying He died for His sheep mean He didn’t die for anyone else?
By that logic we would conclude that Jesus only die for the Apostle Paul and no one else because in Galatians 2:20 Paul says that Christ have Himself for him.
So does that mean Jesus never died for anyone else?
Of course not.
GALATIANS 2:20
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and GAVE HIMSELF FOR ME.
You may as well remove all of these verses from your bible because they mean nothing to you:
1. NUMBERS 21:8 - ANYONE WHO LOOKS
2. NUMBERS 21:9 - ANY MAN WHO BEHELD
3. DEUTERONOMY 30:14 - WORD IS NIGH
4. 2 CHRONICLES 30:18,19 - PARDONS EVERYONE THAT PREPARES HIS HEART TO SEEK HIM
5. PSALM 85:9 - SALVATION IS NEAR TO ALL WHO FEAR HIM
6. PSALM 86:5 - MERCY TO ALL WHO CALL UPON HIM
7. PROVERBS 1:33 - WHOSOEVER HEARKENS SHALL DWELL SAFELY
8. PROVERBS 28:13 - MERCY ON WHOSO CONFESSES AND FORSAKES THEIR SIN
9. ISAIAH 25:6-8 - WIPE AWAY ALL TEARS
10. ISAIAH 30:18 - ALL THOSE WHO WAIT FOR HIM
11. ISAIAH 53:6 - INIQUITY OF US ALL
12. ISAIAH 53:10 - OFFERING FOR SIN
13. ISAIAH 53:12 - INTERCEDES FOR THE TRANSGRESSORS
14. ISAIAH 55:7 - MERCY ON THOSE WHO FORSAKE THEIR WAY
15. ISAIAH 57:15 - REVIVES THE HEART OF THE CONTRITE
16. JONAH 2:8 - EVERYONE HAD MERCY
17. MATTHEW 9:13 - CALLED SINNERS
18. MATTHEW 10:32 - WHOSOEVER SHALL CONFESS
19. MATTHEW 10:40 - HE THAT RECEIVETH
20. MATTHEW 11:28 - REST FOR ALL THAT LABOUR
21. MATTHEW 16:24 - IF ANY MAN
22. MATTHEW 16:25 - WHOSOEVER WILL
23. MARK 8:34 - ALL ARE CALLED. WHOSOEVER WILL
24. MARK 16:15-16 - EVERY CREATURE
25. LUKE 2:10 - PEACE FOR ALL PEOPLE
26. LUKE 2:14 - PEACE FOR ALL MEN
27. LUKE 2:30,31- SALVATION PREPARED FOR ALL
28. LUKE 3:6 - ALL SHALL SEE SALVATION
29. LUKE 4:18 - DELIVERANCE TO THE CAPTIVES
30. LUKE 5:32 - CALL SINNERS TO REPENTANCE
31. LUKE 10:16 - HE WHO HEARETH
32. LUKE 14:26 - ANY MAN CAN COME
33. JOHN 1:7 - ALL MEN MIGHT BELIEVE
34. JOHN 1:9 - LIGHTETH EVERY MAN
35. JOHN 1:12 - AS MANY AS RECEID HIM
36. JOHN 1:12 - TO THEM THAT BELIEVE
37. JOHN 1:16,17 - GRACE TO ALL
38. JOHN 1:29 - TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD
39. JOHN 3:15 - WHOSOEVER BELIEVES
40. JOHN 3:16 - WHOSOEVER BELIEVES
41. JOHN 3:17 - WORLD MIGHT BE SAVED THROUGH HIM
42. JOHN 3:18 - HE THAT BELIEVETH
43. JOHN 3:19 - LIGHT HAS COME INTO THE WORLD
44. JOHN 3:36 - HE THAT BELIEVETH
45. JOHN 4:10 - ANYONE WHO KNOWS AND ASKS
46. JOHN 4:14 - WHOSOEVER
47. JOHN 4:42 - SAVIOUR OF THE THE WORLD
48. JOHN 5:24 - HE THAT HEARS AND BELIEVES
49. JOHN 5:25 - THEY THAT HEAR
50. JOHN 6:33 - GIVETH LIFE TO THE WORLD
51. JOHN 6:35 - HE THAT COMETH
52. JOHN 6:35 - HE THAT BELIEVETH
53. JOHN 6:37 - ALL THAT COMETH
54. JOHN 6:40 - ALL THAT SEE AND BELIEVE
55. JOHN 6:47 - HE THAT BELIEVES
56. JOHN 6:50 - A MAN MAY EAT
57. JOHN 6:51 - IF ANY MAN EAT
58. JOHN 6:51 - GIVEN FOR THE LIFE OF THE WORLD
59. JOHN 6:54 - WHOSO EATETH AND DRINKETH
60. JOHN 6:56 - HE THAT EATETH
61. JOHN 6:57 - HE THAT EATETH
62. JOHN 6:58 -HE THAT EATETH
63. JOHN 7:37 - IF ANY MAN THIRST
64. JOHN 7:38 - HE THAT BELIEVETH
65. JOHN 10:9 - IF ANY MAN ENTER
66. JOHN 11:26 - EVERYONE
67. JOHN 12:32 - DRAW ALL MEN
68. JOHN 12:47 - IF ANY MAN HEAR
69. JOHN 12:47 - SAVE THE WORLD
70. JOHN 16:8 - REPROVE THE WORLD
71. JOHN 17:20 - THEM WHICH SHALL BELIEVE
72. JOHN 20:31 - ANYONE
73. ACTS 2:38 - EVERYONE
74. ACTS 11:18 - REPENTANCE GRANTED TO JEWS AND GENTILES
75. JOHN 16:18 - CONVICT THE WORLD OF SIN
76. ACTS 10:35 - HE THAT FEARETH
77. ACTS 10:43 - WHOSOEVER BELEIVETH
78. ACTS 13:39 - ALL THAT BELIEVE
79. ACTS 17:31 - ASSURANCE TO ALL MEN
80. ACTS 17:30 - COMMANDS ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT
81. ACTS 20:21- REPENTANCE AND FAITH TO JEWS AND GREEKS
82. ACTS 26:20 - GRANTED TO JEWS AND GENTILES
83. ROMANS 1:16 - SALVATION TO EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES
84. ROMANS 3:22 - ALL WHO BELIEVE
85. ROMANS 3:26 - HIM WHICH BELIEVETH
86. ROMANS 4:5 - HIM THAT BELIEVETH ON HIM
87. ROMANS 4:11 - ALL WHO BELIEVE
88. ROMANS 5:6 - DIED FOR THE UNGODLY
89. ROMANS 5:17- ANYONE CAN RECEIVE
90. ROMANS 5:18 - FREE GIFT TO ALL MEN
91. ROMANS 6:23 - FREE GIFT
92. ROMANS 9:33 - WHOSOEVER
93. ROMANS 10:4 EVERYONE THAT BELIEVES
94. ROMANS 10:8 - FAITH IS NEAR TO ALL
95. ROMANS 10:11 - WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL
96. ROMANS 10:12 - ALL THAT CALL
97. ROMANS 10:13 - EVERYONE WHO CALLS
98. ROMANS 11:32 - MERCY TO ALL
99. ROMANS 12:3 - MEASURE OF FAITH TO EVERY MAN
100. 1 CORINTHIANS 5:7 - SACRIFICE FOR US
101. 2 CORINTHIANS 5:14 - DIED FOR ALL
102. 2 CORINTHIANS 5:15 - DIED FOR ALL
103. 2 CORINTHIANS 5:17 - ANY MAN
104. 2 CORINTHIANS 5:19 - RECONCILING THE WORLD
105. EPHESIANS 3:9 - TO MAKE ALL MEN SEE
106. EPHESIANS 4:7 - EVERYONE OF US IS GIVEN GRACE
107. COLOSSIANS 1:28 - WARNING EVERY MAN
108. COLOSSIANS 1:28 - TEACHING EVERY MAN
109. COLOSSIANS 1:28 - PRESENTING EVERY MAN
110. 1 TIMOTHY 1:15 - CHRIST CAME TO SAVE SINNERS
111. 1 TIMOTHY 2:3,4 - WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED
112. 1 TIMOTHY 2:6 - RANSOM FOR ALL
113. 1 TIMOTHY 4:10 - SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN
114. TITUS 2:11 - GRACE TO ALL MEN
115. HEBREWS 2:9 - TASTED DEATH FOR EVERY MAN
116. HEBREWS 9:28 - UNTO THEM THAT LOOK FOR HIM
117. HEBREWS 10:10 - CHRIST OFFERED HIS BODY FOR ALL
118. 1 PETER 3:18 - CHRIST SUFFERED FOR THE UNJUST
119. 2 PETER 2:1 - THE LORD BOUGHT EVERYONE
120. 2 PETER 3:9 - NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH
121. 2 PETER 3:9 - ALL SHOULD REACH REPENTANCE
122. 1 JOHN 2:2 - PROPITIATION OF THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD
123. 1 JOHN 4:1-2 - EVERY SPIRIT THAT CONFESSES
124. 1 JOHN 4:14 - SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD
125. 1 JOHN 4:15 - WHOSOEVER SHALL CONFESS
126. JUDE 1:3 - COMMON SALVATION
127. REVELATION 3:20 - IF ANY MAN HEAR AND OPEN
128. REVELATION 22:17- HIM THAT HEARETH
129. REVELATION 22:17- HIM THAT THIRSTS
130. REVELATION 22:17 -WHOSEVER WILL
131. REVELATION 22:21 - GRACE BE WITH ALL
You may as well throw the entire Bible into a furnace because you clearly don't want to see what is plainly written:
10 As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”[a]
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”[b]
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”[c]
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”[d]
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”
Romans 3:10-17
Nobody wants God EXCEPT those who have been regenerated BY HIM from eternity past, before for the foundations of the world.
"for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.""
Romans 9: 11-13
@@douglasmcnay644 No you may as well throw your entire Bible away because it’s obviously not your authority.
Romans 3 isn’t some magical proof text that voids the rest of scripture.
Context, context , context.
Romans 3:10-17 is being quoted from Psalm 14 which is hyperbole.
Are you actually claiming peoples tongues are
👉LITERAL👈 open graves? 🤦♂️
Paul is using hyperbolic language to drive home a point.
No one is righteous by the law.
Abraham was described as righteous in the next chapter so is Paul lying ?
Or maybe you just need to read in CONTEXT.
Faith vs. Works.
Paul goes on and on and on and on about the contrast and you still don’t get it?
…and regarding seeking God, you do realize that He sought US don’t you?
Remember Jesus who came to seek and save the lost?
What more do you want?
@@douglasmcnay644 1) Please show me where in Romans 9 an individual unbeliever was unconditionally elected or chosen or predestined to damnation before the foundation of the world.
Which verse says that?
2) Please show me where in Romans 9 an individual unbeliever was unconditionally elected or chosen or predestined to salvation before the foundation of the world.
Which verse says that?
Everyone WHO LOOKS. Not everyone everywhere without condition. The elect look. The elect thirst. The elect have ears to hear. The elect behold God. The elect fear God. No one else does. Only the elect
@@eminem101904 Wrong.
Limited Atonement is biblical as is Particular Redemption. But too many fail to properly distinguish between "atonement" (katallage) and "propitiation" (hilasterion). Christ's propitiation or "mercy seat" is a once for all satisfaction for human sin -- of the believers and the unbelievers as per 1 John 2:2. Christ's atonement is reconciliatory N.B. at-one-ment (as per Rom. 5:11). Thus while Christ's propitiation is sufficient for the remitting of the sins of the world, reconciliation to God is only possible by faith in that propitiation. Because only a relatively small percentage of people hear the Good News, and even fewer place their faith in it, we can only rightly conclude that the atonement is limited and the redemption is particular.
So he's Calvinist ?
Paul Reed yes
Unfortunately.
For all who love God and desires to glorify His name, know the meaning of two simple words and you will know the truth.
The meaning of the word “remission” is as follows:
“the cancellation of a debt, charge, or penalty.”
The meaning of the word “redemption” is as follows:
“noun
1. the action of saving or being saved from sin, error, or evil. "God's plans for the redemption of his world"
2. the action of regaining or gaining possession of something in exchange for payment, or clearing a debt.”
Actually it is point 2 that we understood God‘s salvation/redemption plan. God redeemed us from the debt of sin in which we can never repay!
The understanding of these words would straightaway tell you the atonement of Christ does not depends on whether He died for the person, the fact is He died for all (John 3:16, Romans 5:18 etc,.), the atonement was made for everyone. In another word, payment for sin is made for everyone but the redemption requires faith to believe in what Christ had done. Atonement made is not complete until the sinner received by faith to be redeemed and then the transaction (I.e. redemption) is completed!
This is the same as financial transaction, as the scripture described concerning our salvation:
Acts 20:28 KJV
[28] Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Ephesians 1:14 KJV
[14] Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Do not be ignorant as sin and foolishness is always associated with ignorance:
Acts 17:23 KJV
[23] For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD . Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
Romans 10:3 KJV
[3] For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
1 Timothy 1:13 KJV
[13] Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC That paper is among the many pages, is called the Bible! If you disagree with the bible, God's Word, then you have to ask yourself whether you are a true believer. What I am addressing here is the false teaching called "Limited Atonement", how we come to believe, the conviction of sin, the regeneration, the new birth, I can't be sure and I don't think the bible is clear on these.
Isaiah 53:6 ALL OF US, like sheep, have gone astray..but the Lord Has caused the wrong doing of ALL OF US To fall of him.
So if all (or the "many", as preached) is only the elect, then the elect are the only ones that have strayed like sheep? Cause the all that sinned seems clearly to be the same all that Jesus bore their sin here in Isaiah.
Many use Matthew 1:21 to prove their case on limited atonement, however this verse demolishes "Limited Atonement" rather than support it! Matthew 1:21, can easily be used to refute "Limited Atonement" simply because "his people" here refers to Israel and not the elect! And many are making the unforgivable mistake by interpreting "his people" to be the elect, because it was still in the Old Testament period when the angel proclaimed the gospel! And if "his people" refers to Israel then Jesus died for the elect and non-elect (Romans 9:6-11)! Any young Christian (young as in the faith) who know the simple truth that Israel is God's people in the Old Testament and when the Old Testament ended and when the New Testament begin then the doctrine of atonement will be very clear to him or her. Read also the parallel account in Luke 1:68-80, no one will have doubt that 'his people' is referring to Israel, God's people in the Old Testament. Therefore the atonement is not limited to the elect only
John 12: 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
That destroys it as well.
+EndTimesToronto well said, brother! Let all who said the Bible is their sole authority of faith and practice, trust only the Bible, the Word of God and depart from the doctrine of men, which hold no water and can easily be refuted.
William Lee
I agree with your view on the atonement, but I fail to see your reasoning with Mat 1:21.
I would add this about the atonement. Many people use Matt 20: 28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
To prove limited atonement. However, it goes against it.....
Mat 7: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 22: 14 ¶ For many are called, but few are chosen.
Many can be all and all can be many. But many cannot be few.
I may have a different view from you about Israel that isn’t allowing me to see your point with Mat 1:21. I believe that in reference to “his people” it is speaking of the faithful remnant. Those who feared God. These were the ones whom Jesus came to save and WOULD come to Him.....
Mal 3: 16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
That’s why some of the Jews were hardened and some would come to Christ. It was prophesied in Mal 3:18 and many other places.
John the Baptist came to turn the hearts of the people to the Lord. He may have been their last chance to repent and fear God.
Anyways, would like to understand your train of thought on Mat 1:21.
God bless you brother
Evan U - the nation of Israel is known in the Old Testament as God’s people, this is written throughout the Old Testament books, examples Exodus 10:4, Leviticus 26:12, Micah 6:5 KJV etc,. The Gentile who believe and become the people of God only happens in the New Testament during the church age (Romans 9:25-26 KJV). As such, if Matthew 1:21 happens during the Old Testament period then we can prove convincingly that “my people” here refers to the nation of Israel. Knowing who “my people” here is crucial because many theologians said that it refers to the elect or all the saved people (Jews and gentile) in the New Testament (I.e. the church). They took it for granted that “his people” refers to the church because it is in the New Testament scripture, this is clearly an unforgivable mistake! If “his people” here refers to the nation of Israel and we know it consist of the elect and non-elect (Romans 9:6), then we proved Jesus died for elect and the non-elect. This demolishes the limited atonement theory!
Many fall for this men-made theory because it gave them a false sense of security saying that if Jesus Christ died for you then you can never be lost! However, they failed to realize that if scripture does not support it (i.e. falsehood) then they are standing on men's words, their faith rest on the flaw logic of men (wisdom of men) and not on God's Word! I wish all who named after the precious name of Jesus Christ, that our faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God! 1 Corinthians 2:5
God bless!
Well, I was going to watch this, but I can’t stand that constant flicker in the background.
That's interesting. Did you look again? I don't have a flicker.
Daniel Elam it's very light. The purple light where the shadow comes to a point. I didn't notice it until I saw this comment, but most the time I'm just listening and not watching anyway.
Would be a shame to miss this great sermon bc of something minor like that.
That's God telling you not to watch it.
At 43:07 minutes you realized that your a sinner. And made the choice to follow God. To believe in him. You had free will. Faith is not works. It's not like I'm. Gonna die and see God and Proclaim that my great faith got me here. Nope
...According to 1 Corinthians 1:21 does it please God to save those that believe or does it please Him to save people so that then they can then believe after they’re born again?
1 CORINTHIANS 1:21
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God BY THE FOOLISHNESS OF PREACHING TO SAVE THEM THAT BELIEVE.
Just because it’s God’s will that all should be saved doesn’t mean His will is somehow thwarted when people freely reject Him because that’s the way He designed it.
Someone’s will is NOT someone actively willing and MAKING that thing come to pass.
It’s His will that all be saved does not equate to “He’s actively willing (a.k.a forcing) all to be saved”
**Tell me how do you reason with someone with no freewill?**
ISAIAH 1:18
18 COME NOW, AND LET US REASON TOGETHER, SAITH THE LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Pretty clear that even sinful man can reason with the Lord.
One of the supporting verse for limited atonement is Matthew 1:21. They said Christ died only for the elect. The idea of elect people of God is in the New Testament when the Lord give the commission to preach the gospel to all the nations. Not only they added the word “only”, they conveniently forgets Israel was (and still is) God’s people in the Old Testament. But Matthew 1:21 was still in the Old Testament period. It is a grievous and silly mistake to take Matthew 1:21 to be in the New Testament period just because it is in the New Testament scripture! For those who have made such a mistake, simply did not take God’s Word seriously, especially those who knows Biblical Hermeneutics! This is a matter so fundamental and so simple!
The truth that the atonement is universal can also be established from the fact that the gospel was preached to Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. Adam is the representative of all men, elect or non-elect. And so the promise of salvation was given to all men by implication.
William Lee,
[[ But Matthew 1:21
was still in the Old Testament period. It is a grievous and silly mistake to take Matthew 1:21
to be in the New Testament period just because
it is in the New Testament scripture! For those who have made such a mistake, simply did not take God’s Word seriously, especially those
who knows Biblical Hermeneutics! This is a matter so fundamental and so
simple! ]]=>your post
RESPONSE :
I agree with you that when Matthew wrote this verse, he was still in the OT era......Because
The New Testament actually started in Acts chapter 2, when the apostles and the disciples of
Jesus received the baptism of the Holy Spirit....
However, It was Jesus whose mission was to change the OT era into the NT era......It was His death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and
pouring out of the Holy Spirit to the believers that
fulfilled the New Testament era....
Therefore the verse Matthew 1:21 is applicable to
the New Testament time.....
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[[ The truth that the atonement is universal can
also be established from the fact that the
gospel was preached to Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. ]]=>your post
RESPONSE : Can you please give us a verse to
support that the gospel was preached to Adam
and Eve?......Thank you.....
Wait, so you are saying God has permitted double payment for sin? You're saying Jesus died for ALL men, and yet some men still go to hell for that sin? So the penalty was paid twice! How is that compatible with grace at all? In the world of men, that is this world, we would consider it unjust to punish two people for the same crime. But your assertion make it so.
It seems we need to focus more on Christ and less on naming ourselves a Calvinist, etc. The body of Christ is spread about because of denominations. We need to pull together and obey the great commission
Use the context of what John means by world in the book you are quoting 1 John, in 1 John World means the bad people too.
I would disagree with the doctrine of limited atonement. I don't find it biblical and scripture would argue otherwise. And to clear up other things that might be misunderstood, I don't believe everyone is saved either. All I'm saying is that Christ was the atoning sacrifice for all sin, but it does not mean that all sin was automatically forgiven. It simply means that the offering to secure forgiveness for the whole world has been made. And I believe we are Justified by faith(in Jesus) apart from the works of the law(Romans 3.28)
1 John 2:2
[2]He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Peter 2:1
[1]But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them-bringing swift destruction on themselves.
John 3:16
[16]For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
1 Timothy 2:4
[4]who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
So out of context. Typical calvinistic religious blindness.
According to their view on God's sovereignty (favorite buzz word), when mankind fell into sin, damnation applied to ALL, but when salvation came, it's NOT FOR ALL.
As usual, calvinists have a predisposition for negatives, suffering, misery and partiality. The result is always judgement, lack of grace, no power, no healing, no success. It's all about declaring Gods sovereignty amidst suffering. The end. Nonsense.
Jeremiah 19:5 says, “They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal-something I did NOT COMMAND or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” 2nd Peter 3:9 says, “The Lord is…not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance.” and yet, it also has Jesus saying, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction (hell) and many are on it, but straight and narrow is the road that leads to life (Heaven) and few ever find it."
St. John, "For whom did Christ die?"
Well Durbin,
"My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. HE IS THE PROPITIATION FOR OUR SINS, and NOT FOR OURS ONLY BUT FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD. And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: ..." (1 John 2:1-29)
I noticed that you had no responses in 2 years. Typical of calvinists to ignore the Words of God so they can hold their traditions of men. Sad stuff.
I have about a dozen other verses proving the same thing.
Jn 10:11,15b
1John 2:2 Christ died for the sins of the whole world! Jews and Gentiles have the free will to accept the free gift of salvation when convicted by Holy spirit.
Calvanism ??????
I thought Jeff was smarter than this.
Werner Heisenberg he is smart.
What is Calvanism?
Ab_Bowhunter, a belief that Jesus only died for some of His creations. That God has predestined our every thought and action, so, God has willingly predestined His creations to hell.
Calvanism???? There is no need for this doctrine
I'm predestined to be an Armenian.
one question Jeff..... does God confirm your word with signs and wonders? not converts but signs and wonders? dead raised? leapers clensed? blind see? casting out demons? very intellectual but truth? questionable !
Interpretation of more complicated than people who are BORN AGAIN...WHO have recognized the sin which separates us from God. Repent of it: turned our WILL and removed ourselves from the throne of our lives and asked CHRIST to forgive us and assume sovereignty over our life... turned from sin and to Christ to assume control. Trust Christ to guide us, free us from bondage of sin and offer us salvation; eternal life in heaven. CHRIST will change the heart of those who cry out for his care,love, and forgiveness. Sin will no longer be enjoyable to New believer who prays and reads his scripture daily or regular basis...the more I study his scripture the more acutely I realize my need for his help to live in a way I can feel shameless before GOD in prayer. Living a righteous life becomes a by-product of faith and Not a requirement of. .... This is truly amazing.... I am not sure of this or Armenian doctrines does it matter???? Did not GOD MAKE THIS SO SIMPLE A CHILDREN CAN GRASP????? PLEASE .... I AM NOT SURE BUT HOW IMPORTANT IS THIS ???? CAN IT BE DEFERRED SAY 10 YEARS???
The child of God can fall from grace (Gal 5:4; Heb 6:4-6; Acts 8:9-24). The Perseverance of the Saints is not a valid doctrine.
If a child of God can fall from grace, then God's grace must not be irresistible so the doctrine of Irresistible Grace falls.
And if God's grace is not irresistible, then a person must be free to choose whether he will accept that grace or not. So the doctrine of Unconditional Election falls.
And if a person is free to make the good choice to accept God's grace, we cannot say that Christ died only for the elect. We must say, along with the apostle Paul (1 Tim 2:6), that He died for the sins of all people. So the doctrine of Limited Atonement collapses.
And if a person can make a good choice, he must not be "wholly defiled in the all the faculties of soul and mind." Therefore, the doctrine of Total Depravity falls.
The Bible doesn't teach 'total depravity to the point of uselessness and unaccountability'/'we are all robots subject to the divine puppet master'.
God 'exegetes' sin for us in Genesis 4;
"If thou do well, shalt thou not receive? but if ill, shall not sin
forthwith be present at the door?"
Every Protestant that proclaims that we are justified by Faith Alone should HEAR these FOUR words by James 2:24 RINGING in their EARS:
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
"not by faith alone."
The Protestant Scripture Twister Series #4 - Luther 2:24
ruclips.net/video/UoYYXo7wjdQ/видео.html
Christian Virtue & Grace sin is more than just something we do, it’s our nature. We could never save ourselves by our works. If you believe in that you don’t understand the holiness of God and the depravity if our sinful nature. And you deny the work of Christ.
@@aleczamora6993 I didn't say one word about works.
We are depraved because we were deprived of sanctifying grace. Our nature is not totally depraved. It is fractured for sure. But both the Old Testament and the New Testament point to people who were righteous.
In this brief comment above, I giveno indication of denying Christ. You should take a high-school course in CRITICAL THINKING before making untrue claims.
@@aleczamora6993 CAN FAITH ALONE SAVE YOU?
Stop taking things out of context. Read the whole chapter. Really, the whole book. You can't just grab one verse. In this context, the works are the evidence of the faith that you have. If someone says, "I love God", but they're still living like the devil, do they really love God? At the same time, no amount of good works makes us sinless/perfect, which is God's standard for heaven. So our works can't ever save us, because how do we know when we've done enough?
All of that aside, what does this have to do with the message? Which statement in this video did you disagree with, and upon what biblical basis? Give the time stamp.
@@Yesica1993 Let me ask you the question above: Can Faith Alone Save You?
James 2:14
[14] What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
The context starts in James 1.
I do not believe that God has predestined certain folks to go to heaven or hell. That is bull. I plead with you not to listen to any preacher who peach such hertical untruths they believe is right. If God already knows who will be saved what is the point of evangelism? This is Calvinism
I am going to give you a Bible verse that IRREFUTABLY proves that Jesus died for ALL mankind, and NOT just for the church. Many foolish believers have bought into lie that Jesus didn't die for those who go to Hell. Nothing could be further from the truth. Jesus Christ shed His blood for ALL mankind. 2nd Peter 2:1 clearly states...
“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.”
Did you read that? ... "Even DENYING THE LORD THAT BOUGHT THEM." According to the Calvinist heresy of "limited atonement," Jesus only redeemed those whom He knew would one day get saved. The Word of God never teaches limited atonement; on the contrary, the Bible states, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." How could anyone teach that Christ only died for certain sinners, when we're ALL sinners!
Matthew 7: 13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, AND THERE ARE FEW WHO FIND IT.
Romans 5:18 Therefore, as through one man’s offence judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. Jesus also took upon Him the Curse of Paradise.
Dutch is my first linguist. I grew up with the Belgium confession and the Heidelberg Catechisms The L in T.U.L.P. Stands for “Limited Atonement” is a Mistranslation from to Dutch, Which is the linguist It was translated from to English. The 5 articles were a response on the 5 articles of the remonstrant written in 1610 by the Arminian Uittenbogaard . He wrote the 5 articles that the synod of Dordrecht 1618 - 1619 opposed to. There were 62 Dutch delegates, and 27 foreign delegates representing eight countries.
The word which Uittenbogaard used means: “Particular Atonement” and Christ Died particularly for every person of the whole world. Which is borderline to universal redemption. The Synod upheld the Sufficiency of the dead Of Christ for the whole World and if it was for 1000 worlds, but opposed the idea of Particular redemption for every person ever born. At the time that this controversy on the Synod of Dodrecht Calvin had already Died in 1564, and had nothing to do with it.
The true meaning of limited atonement is stated in these articles that were written and put together by the delegates of the Synod to explain the Atonement Of Christ.
2-3. This death of the Son of God is the only and perfect sacrifice and satisfaction for sins; of infinite power and dignity, abundantly sufficient to atone for the sins of the whole world.
2-4. And this death is therefore of such great power and dignity, because the person who suffered it is not only a truly and utterly Holy Man, but also the only begotten Son of God, of one eternal and infinite being with the Father and the Holy Spirit, such as our Savior must be. Moreover, because his death has been attended with the sense of the wrath of God and of the curse which we have deserved by our sins.
2-5. Furthermore, the promise of the gospel is, that whosoever believeth on Christ crucified shall not perish, but have eternal life; which promise to all nations and men, to whom God, according to his good pleasure, sends his gospel, must be proclaimed and presented indiscriminately, with a commandment of repentance and faith.
2-6. But that many, being called by the gospel, repent not, neither believe in Christ, but perish in unbelief, this is not for want or insufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ offered on the cross, but through their own unbelief.
COMMENTARIES OF JOHN CALVIN ON THE BIBLE.
“He makes this favor common to all, because it is propounded to all, and not because it is in reality extended to all; for though Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and is offered through God’s benignity indiscriminately to all, yet all do not receive him.” [Calvin’s Commentary on Romans 5:18]
Nevertheless, forasmuch as it is not in us to discern between the righteous and the sinners that go to destruction, but that Jesus Christ has suffered His death and passion as well for them as for us, therefore it behoves us to labour to bring every man to salvation, that the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ may be available to them ...” [Sermon CXVI on the Book of Job (31:29-32)]
“The word many is not put definitely for a fixed number, but for a large number; for he contrasts himself with all others. And in this sense it is used in Romans 5:15, where Paul does not speak of any part of men, but embraces the whole human race.” [Calvin’s Commentary on Matthew 20:28]
“For he intended expressly to state [in John 3:16] that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favour of God, YET HE SHOWS HIMSELF TO BE RECONCILED TO THE WHOLE WORLD, when he invites all men without exception to faith in Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.” (Calvin’s Commentary on the Gospel of John)
Limited Atonement is the only part of TULIP that I don't feel right about. I don't know how anyone who says they love God could be totally accepting of it. It actually sounds like a test. Imagine on Judgement Day God saying... "Really?!? I saved you and you know you didn't deserve it... and you never even lifted a finger or whispered a prayer to save your neighbor?" Don't think just because God is sovereign that you can't argue with Him or ask that He change His mind. Would you want your neighbor to be okay with you going to Hell?
Limited atonement doesn't mean "you never even lifted a finger or whispered a prayer to save your neighbor".
Why would those 2 be connected?
@@MansterBear Why teach the atonement is limited at all unless you think it's a fact set in stone? So if you believe only some will be saved, then why would you ever pray all will be saved? You would have to help me understand. I guess I'm assuming those who believe in limited atonement don't do that. Am I wrong?
@@danielelam5513
Only universalists think that all will be saved.
I'm still exploring Calvinism vs Arminianism vs something in the middle. Limited atonement just means that Jesus died for the people who will be saved. He didn't die for those who won't be saved. The basis of this reasoning is addressed around 55:40
. Romans 8 seems to say that Jesus is interceding for the ones he died for. If he died for all, he interceded for all. If he intercedes for all, then all will be saved (universalism).
It doesn't have an effect on who you pray for, or who you witness to. If TULIP is right, and only the ones God chose will be saved, we have no way of knowing who that is. They still need to hear the Word, so Calvinists preach to all, just as anyone else would. My pastor isn't a calvinist, and I've been asking him about some of this recently, and one of the first things he said was that the Calvinists are known for their outreach and witnessing.
I'm sure they pray that God's will be done in anyone's life, just as we should all pray. It's not about what we want, it's about what God wants. Jeff prays at the beginning of his sermons that God use him to preach God's Word, and that people will hear it and be changed. I'm sure it's similar to that. You pray and want your neighbor to be saved, but with the recognition that it's ultimately up to God and God's will.
@@MansterBear If you read the Wikipedia on Universalism, it's not quite the same. It doesn't mean all beliefs are valid. I still believe in one truth and as a Christian I believe that truth came embodied as Jesus. Universalism is more inclusive of beliefs and things like morality and truth are considered relative. Hinduism, as an example, is Universalist in nature and will say things like "all paths lead to God". I don't believe that at all. It sounds nice but I know it's false. I don't believe truth or morality could be relative. As for praying that everyone will be saved, that's just an issue of the heart for me. If I was in the same boat as everyone else, I would not want a single soul to go to wander into the outer darkness away from God because they lacked the gifts and grace to believe in Christ. Armenians, to me, seem hard hearted and incapable of knowing what grace actually means. They still seem to believe they are doing things that only God could have given them the ability to do as gifts. I don't argue with them though. I don't completely believe in (absolute) Freewill because I know from my own experience I had an intellectual block to believing Christianity was even possible. I was raised Christian and got "saved" as a teen. But for whatever reason I seemed to have zero faith or ability to believe shirt after that. Most unbelievers might say I just "got wise" and grew a brain... but I see that completely differently now. I spent several years searching for truth in other religions and wound up a naturalistic atheist. It wasn't like I was secretly knew Christianity was true and I was denying it in my mind or heart. I was a sincere truth seeker. I just couldn't "see". I used to read books by Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, and Sam Harris... I thought Science was the only valid truth we could have and that the Bible seemed illogical and ridiculous. But I'm a huge believer in irresistible grace now. It's hard to explain but it felt like Jesus was following me everywhere I went and one day... I just believed. I tried running from it but couldn't. I saw the world in a different light and I just knew Christ was real. We are all born lost and broken... including me. This world is plagued by a distortion we call sin. I also saw for the first time (or felt) life couldn't be an accident and truth couldn't be relative. The Bible does say faith is a gift and I can believe that at an experential level. I can look at atheists and believe completely they're incapable of faith. I was once there too. It's alluring to want to have knowledge of everything but they can't seem to see how that couldn't be possible by observing just the natural world. They can't "see" Christ in their hearts or minds. (Not that I'm denying the usefulness of science. Just acknowledging it's limits.) I think the only piece of advice I would give anyone is that you take the time to ask God for the faith, grace, and gifts you need to know the truth. Whatever that might actually be. Keep in mind life is a journey and prayers aren't always seen instantaneously... But I have no doubt if you pray that He will personally hunt you down and guide your steps. You'll come to understand what irresistible grace means as an experience. It's a lot like the analogy of Lazarus being raised up from the dead. I didn't have to read Calvinist theology to believe that. I just recognized a huge chunk of it was true. Limited atonement though? I don't see why I should blindly believe that.
@@danielelam5513
When I said universalists, I meant in the sense of Christianity, not in all religions. A universalist Christian believes that Jesus died for everyone's since... therefore every person is forgiven, and all will go to heaven, regardless of what they do in life.
Anyone who isn't a Universalist believes atonement is limited in some form.
There's basically 3 options:
1. Jesus died for everyone and his atonement is 100% effective, so everyone is saved and everyone goes to heaven.
2. Jesus died only for the elect/predestined and his atonement is 100% effective (Calvinism)
3. Jesus died for everyone but his atonement is NOT 100% effective, and people need to "activate" it by their choice.
Calvinism would state that Romans 8 tells us that Jesus intercedes for the people that he died for, therefore, it can't be that he died for everyone, or else he would be interceding for everyone, which would mean that everyone is saved and everyone goes to heaven, because all of their sins are paid for. Otherwise, you have a God who sends people to hell for their sins, even though Jesus paid for their sins, which wouldn't be just.
That's a great testimony, btw. So are you a 4 point Calvinist then? Everything except the Limited Atonement?
Christ died for all! This is a shameful false doctrine!
Werner Heisenberg he said that
Science Denier Would you mind telling me where Jeff says that Jesus died for *all* ?(Not just the 'elect')
If Jesus died for all, then everyone is going to heaven.
Scriptures tell us there are a lot of people going to hell.
mmhhh..
Ricky Sandoval Christ died for all, offering *every* sinner Salvation. Whether the sinner accepts the offer determines they're status of eternity.
God bless you Ricky.
Werner
Hey Ryan, Thank you for your concern for your brothers but this predestination doctrine makes God to be immoral. Why does God choose to damn someone over the other?
Surely, of course it's within God's right to damn or to save but God is omnimalevolent, it's not within His nature act unloving (in damning someone groundlessly) God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentence. 2 Peter 3:9
With Love, Werner
*Soli Deo Gloria* :)
calvinism is nothing but a big oxymoron
Jumbo Shrimp is an oxymoron. Calvinism is a word without oxymoronic properties.
This theology is harming the church along with universalism
If that is the case, someone needs to present a careful argument against Calvinistic limited atonement that doesn't rely on universalism arguments. Pretty much everyone will argue for universal salvation in order to disprove a limited atonement, then when you point it out, they respond emotionally: how dare you! They just want you to throw away the argument when dealing with an actual universalist, but it is unclear why.
I'd love to see a clear argument that navigates both issues and properly limits the atonement in the way they want that isn't Calvinism but isn't universalism. Most people can't even give a clear definition of atonement in the first place.
what a joke..
Doctrine of demons