I am continually amazed by the Bible. I'm an ex-conservative evangelical Christian. I was raised on the dogmas of Divine inspiration of the Bible, that it is the literal, plenary, and inerrant word of God. It was always univocal among the 66 books of the Bible we used. As an atheist, I am finding more depth and a better understanding of the development of my former religion since I happily stumbled upon Biblical textual scholarship. I love the Bible now in a way I didn't know was possible when I left theism. I'm 69 years old; it's wonderful to have the opportunity to receive such an education this late in life. I'm thankful I found your channel, and I appreciate all of your dedication to sharing your knowledge with the public. 💫
I'm right there with you, its opened up so many new ways of explaining how it got the way it did and what it meant for people of the time and later. That the bible evolved along with our history, informing it and being informed by it.
@@leom6343 Folding in the religious ideas, texts, commentaries, history brings such a richer and evolving experience. Like this idea of God initially being something that people interacted directly with, but later they wanted to distance that idea so they add angels, and prophets, then they say Jesus is God and it goes full circle, then the cycle starts again and we see saints becoming intercessors and then reformation back to the holy spirit and praying directly to Jesus. I couldn't see the cyclic nature and push-pull when the book was inerrant and univocal.
The Bible Project does a good video on who the Angel of The Lord is, I always read these passages as an angel and understood them as God. Simple as that.
The Bible project is not a good source of biblical scholarship. They assume univocality and coverup contradictions and discontinuity in the bible. I would not trust their interpretations on anything if I were you.
@@hrvatskinoahid1048 never said that, check out the video I mentioned. What I was talking about was how I interpreted the way in which God chose to reveal Himself
Great insight. This clears up things so much better than the fundamentalist stuff I was taught at seminary about how theophanies are always Jesus or always angels, or always visions, or some other apologetic claptrap.
Exodus 23:20-22 ESV [20] “Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. [21] Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him. [22] “But if you carefully obey his voice and do all that I say, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.
So even ancient people engaged in retconning. Remember folks... Luke and Leia didn't know they were twins until episode V and we didn't either. Oh... and we didn't know who Luke's father was or how Luke's father died. In fact, the recent Obi-Wan series, engaged in further retconning to further smooth that part of the story out. Folks.. May the force be with you.
@@TacticusPrime "There is another." when Yoda and the force ghost Obi-Wan were upset with Luke abandoning his training. But of course, I was a child back then. I'm probably so used to knowing the ending (Return) that I'm back filling and internally retconning the information dumps.
@@jenniferhunter4074 Yeah, it was a retcon. Lucas definitely didn't have the siblings kiss on purpose. Making Leia into Luke's sister was just a clumsy way to resolve the love triangle.
One of the biggest RetCon’s is the fanfic/theory/Head canon where Han Solo says that the Falcon “made the kessel run in 12 Parsecs…” And then the fans got into theorizing how it was possible since Parsecs are a measure of distance and not time… It wasn’t Han telling that the ship is fast, it’s supposed to show that he’s a blowhard who doesn’t know what he’s talking about. The script says “obi-wan looks at him disbelieving” or something like that… and no one caught on to it, and Harrison Ford got popular so it’s now canon that the Falcon cut super close to the black hole because of the piloting
@@jackaltwinky77 And then, Solo the movie had to explain in excruciating detail how he got his name and how he met Chewie and the Kessel run. I liked the mystery and the freedom to speculate. (i did read a bit of the EU but that was a long long time ago, in a decade far far away.)
Hey Mr. McClellan, I often hear the argument from apologists that God is "outside of space and time". Is this how God would have been interpreted by early Christians or is this merely a modern invention to "gin up" better arguments for God? Thanks in advance
I'm not Dan, but I am familiar with the argument. It wasn't a well understood concept of early Christians, it's a more modern reinterpretation of scriptures that imply God is "timeless" or "does not change" (like Psalm 102:27, Malachi 3:6). I'm not sure about the exact origins of the specific phrase "God exists outside of space and time", it seems to have been popularized sometime in the later half of the 19th century. You can see authors in that time span trying to reframe Christian theology to fit within the surge in popularity of more secular scientific theories about the age of the Earth and the origins of life.
The Jesus followers existed in a time and place where Aristotle's cosmology was commonly accepted. So, no, this entire concept of "outside of spacetime" is not only irrational but also false historically. Bible god, along with every other god, demi-god, angel, demon etc. lived in outer space. They functionally served the same memetic role that space aliens do today. Mysterious, powerful beings from beyond the stars that are, bizarrely, deeply interested in the affairs of a species of ape on a single planet. The issue is that Aristotle's cosmology is as foreign to us as the Bronze Age cosmology would have been to the early christians. Go read about the sublunary sphere sometime. It's wacky. Effectively, they thought physics only existed in the area below the moon. So that's here on Earth as well as in the elemental spheres that comprise the area between the Earth and the Moon. They thought everything beyond the moon was made of imperishable, incorruptible stuff. Does this sound familiar? Think about Paul describing the new body people would have when the apocalypse comes. These people were conceiving of the cosmos in ways that we simply do not anymore. So their writings are necessarily cryptic as a result. Which forces modern people who want the book to reflect reality to jam many square pegs into several round holes. Apologists don't know what they're looking at in the Bible and they don't care to. They just want the book to support their ideas, the dogmas they have about the Bible, and anything which contradicts those ideas gets shoved aside or reinterpreted no matter how nonsensical or erroneous.
@@marv-n-24That’s an utterly laughable thesis. Have you read the Church Fathers? The immutability and eternity of the Fathers as opposed to the mutability and temporality of creation is critical to their understanding of the creator creation distinction. Read Book 1 of The First Principles by Origen of Alexandria, the Catechetical Discourse of St. Gregory of Nyssa, and The Summa Theologiae Part 1, Question 10 by St. Thomas Aquinas if you think God’s eternity was invented in the 19th century 😂. Explain the eternal/aeviternal distinction of the Middle Ages without considering God as outside of time.
God has gone to the post office to get a change-of-address form at least a couple times. God used to be in heaven, above the clouds, as described in the Tower of Babel story. "Let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven." Well, once we leaned to make aircraft that could go higher than clouds, God had to move somewhere else: Into space. And once we started exploring space and didn't find God, that's because He moved again, and is now "beyond space and time," whatever that means.
It feels to me that is partly why some societies are still mosty antisemic and homophobic. I know this from you so i am extremely thankfull. And still hope christian societies may eventually improve....
What do you think of the argument that the original author wanted to portray the Angel of YHWH as both God and also distinct from God; in other words, that it was written that was intentionally from the beginning rather than edited later? Tim Mackie from the Bible Project has argued this, for instance.
Soooooo... At some point it was no longer cool to talk to god yourself ? You have to go through channels ? Like an angel, or an establishled priestly ruling class ?
If we were trained in the discipline to distinguish between the terms "Lord" and "God," we'd be able to resolve this confusion. Given how Shiloh (Genesis 10:49) migrates from a man to a city in the days of Joshua, we can argue that discerning between "Lord" and "God" was lost. But it's with an assurance that by the time of David, discerning between "Lord" and "God" was a foregone hope. In Psalm 115, David unveils a god of Israel that's no different from what we find with the heathen. What defines their relevance and ascendancey is a result or outcome that favors the contending tribe.
Scholars have been discussing those very things collectively for well over a hundred years, comparing different textual traditions, manuscripts, philological analyses, etc. What you point out is a very laudable uninformed, lay attempt, but compared to what they’ve teased out, over hundreds of academic papers and books, is rather shallow and naive in comparison.
@@hardwork8395, thanks for your reply. Yes, my approach may be shallow and naive compared to the past's great philological (tough word) minds. But if they all deliver you to a god who relies on sin to propagate mankind (incest), if they all resolve God's image as "male" OR "female" that they affect their Adam and Eve narrative, I'd prefer to be among the shallow and naive. If you get the beginning wrong, you have no hope of understanding how it evolves and ends.
It's probably in part the deliberate muddying of the waters between El and Yahweh, the latter being a Midianite tribal deity who migrated north and usurped El's place among the Hebrews.
As Dan mentioned in his video yesterday, the book of Jeremiah not only admits but complains about the same thing. They didn't have a doctrine of biblical inerrancy back then.
As Dan mentioned in his video yesterday, the book of Jeremiah not only admits but complains about the same thing. They didn't have a doctrine of biblical inerrancy back then.
@@integrationalpolytheism inerrancy only refers to small mistakes, not whole books written as forgeries. And Jesus confirmed every word of the OT. Paul too
@@leom6343 Which books did Jesus and Paul confirm were scripture? Judith? Enoch? Wisdom of Solomon? Tobit? Neither of them said what the scripture included and didn't, not in a book for book, and certainly not in a word for word way.
@@work3753 Jesus in Matthew confirmed the canon he knew. He not even confirmed the whole canon but each word and letter. Paul referred to the Hebrew canon he knew and said it is God breathed. Of course they were wrong. Because we know that the books werent even written by the traditional authors. They believed in the inerrancy of the books they knew
I don’t think a single of these stories is of someone having hallucinations, I think they’re all literally just stories, myths. Taking the supernatural elements as being hallucinations is like taking Spider-Man comics and thinking that the writers were hallucinating about Spider-Man while they were in New York.
@@roberthunter6927 If Judaism was based on a man alone in a cave, you would have reason to doubt it. But God revealed Himself to the entire nation of Israel, at least three million people, and proclaimed before them the Ten Commandments.
@@roberthunter6927 maybe people believing in these stories now might need some help, but I don’t think that’s the case for the people in the past. In the past people hardly knew anything about the world they lived in beyond their locality. Why shouldn’t they believe there’s a God, or angels, or men who cast spells and perform miracles? These aren’t things they can easily disprove, especially when they hadn’t even conceptualized a scientific process.
@@sanguillotine Indeed, and that is part of the irony. Worse, religious thinking is a natural part of us. In other words, natural selection made us a little paranoid. Is there a tiger or snake in that bush, or was it just the wind that made the bush move? The dude that just imagined it was the wind probably got the Darwin award, and the paranoid person got to survive and have kids. Science could only come after we got some leisure time left over from the process of mere survival. But by then, we had already personified "good and evil". So we are naturally bad at science and statistics. By and large, elders are valuable [even true in the animal kingdom, the old matriarch elephant and so on]. So we developed ancestor worship, which is only a small step away from idealized warlords and elders. So all the pieces were in place for gods to be invented. The animation of inanimate objects and forces completes the puzzle. But "Survival Heuristics" can only get you so far. Yes, I probably was trashing the ancients unfairly, because their 'crime" was ignorance, not wilful ignorance. Of course, ignorance itself is not a crime. Indeed, it can be a spur to further inquiry. But can survival heuristics be nuanced? I think yes. You are close to dying of thirst at a water hole. But there are lions or whatever there. So if you can take into account the distances involved, animal territories, and feeding patterns, etc, and you can just nip in there, take a drink, and get out of "Dodge". Or you come to the lake armed. Then it occurs to you that you that if you are armed, you may not need to hunt, forage or farm, and so warfare was born. And because we are naturally religious, the "Jihad" was born. :-)
The ealiest form of m-l-k was ŋalga, which is preserved in an Old Babylonian lexical list as: ŋalga = mi-el-ku The association of angels with messengers is derived from this Sumerian word for "advice" and "forethought." I think it's good to bear in mind the Sumerian source of the derivation of m-l-k. It would be nice to have an exhaustive list of Hebrew words derived from Sumerian. I'm just glad that whoever started writing "From an unused primitive root" is no longer with us.
@@maklelan You would say that it is more closely related to שָׁלַח than milku? Ultimately related to the root for "to go"? So, the word for King is derived from ŋalga while the word for messenger is derived from l'k. I had assumed that the connotation of advisement and king was the source of the sense of the delivering of the advisement by a m-l-k.
I think Dan's giving people too much credit. It seems more likely that they just used different words for the same entity, or this is a linguistic style that is no longer understood.
By the way, wherever you see "angel of the lord," which is found throughout the OT and NT, it is a reference to Jesus. Jesus is God, so whether it says "angel of the Lord" or just "Lord," it is the same. And we find this is consistent throughout the Bible, since only in certain cases do you see "angel of the lord" vs mentions of actual angels, such as Gabriel or Michael.
Jesus was a person. The main prohibition against idol worship is not to serve one of the creations, be it an angel, a spiritual power, a constellation, a star or a planet, one of the fundamentals of the physical creation, a person, an animal, a tree, or any other created thing.
Dan, I know that this idea shouldnt be unfamiliar to you based on your background and what you once professed to believe with all your heart and even claim to "know". Your former knowledge is being taken away and you're being left to your own devices and your own reasoning and getting lost in it. Or you are misleading others about this topic on purpose. A simple explanation for all of this besides "yes, we know that the Bible isnt infallible, but it's certainly a whole lot better than not having it" is the truth that "whether by mine own voice or the voice of my servants, it is the same" Bruce R McConkie had some big word-name for it, but it's escaping me at this moment. I'm certain you already know what I'm talking about. A representative of the Lord, coming in the name and authority of the Lord, can claim to be God, for all intents and purposes. You should understand this, so either you forgot something so basic, or you've rejected it intentionally and are now spreading what you know to be a lie in order to soothe your injured conscience. I hope you can realize that you've lost your way and come to rely on the Savior once again and repent and improve. It'd be great to see you promoting the gospel of Christ once again.
Secrets of the serpent: In search of the sacred past. By Philip Gardiner pg 78 "On 1st century AD medallions which show JEHOVAH AS A SERPENT." Secret Doctrine vol 1 by Blavatsky pg 73 "Jehovah's name in Hebrew should be one Ehad... JEHOVAH esoterically (as elohim) is also the SERPENT OR DRAGON." Secret Doctrine vol 2 by Blavatsky pg 246 "The SERPENT to the (Yod) the poetical ideograph of JEHOVAH in the Kabalah" The Books of Enoch: The complete set by Dr Edward Hammond pg 68 (book of dreams) "His face was terrifying...then I saw the LORD standing before them, and his face was terrible. When they all saw him, they were frightened at his appearance. All of them were afraid and trembled.... 'we are unable to stand in our LORD'S presence, or look at him" The Other Bible by William Barnstone pg 495-500 (second book of Enoch/ Book of Secrets) "The Archangel Michael led Enoch before God's face, thus I saw the LORD'S face, but the LORD'S face is... awful, and very terrible" Exodus 33:20 Thou (Moses) canst not see my face. 33:22 ...and I will cover thee with my hand hand while I pass 33:23 I will take away mine hand, and thou shall see my back parts, but my face shall not be seen. FIRE-BREATHING DRAGON Leviticus 9:24 and there came a FIRE out from before YHWH... when the people saw it... Numbers 11:1 .. and the FIRE of YHWH burnt among them and consumed them... Leviticus 10:2... and there went out a FIRE from YHWH, and devoured them... Numbers 16:35 ...and there went out a FIRE from YHWH, and consumed the ... men Psalms 18:8 there went up smoke out of his nostrils, and FIRE out of his mouth II Samuel 22:9 there went up smoke out of his nostrils, and FIRE out of his mouth devoured Ezekiel 21:31 I will blow against thee, in the wrath of my fire. Psalms 97:3 a fire goeth before him and burneth up his enemies. Joel 2:3 a fire devoureth before the them... Zephaniah 1:18 the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy. Isaiah 11:15 YHWH will utterly destroy... with his scorching breath. Psalms 29:7 the voice of YHWH flashes forth flames of fire. Job 41:21 a flame goeth out of his mouth. DRAGON WINGS Psalms 91:41 under his WINGS you may seek refuge Psalms 36:7 take refuge in the shadow of your WINGS Psalms 61.4 in the shelter of your WINGS Deuteronomy 32:11 he spread his WINGS and caught them Jeremiah 49:22 swoop like an eagle and spread out his WINGS HUMAN SACRIFICE Exodus 22:29-30 Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe produce and of thy liquors. The firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me. Likewise shalt thou do with thine oxen and with thy sheep: seven days it shall be with it's dam; on the eighth day thou shalt give it to me. Leviticus 2:13 Every oblation of thy MEAT OFFERING thou shalt season with salt. Leviticus 2:14 a MEAT OFFERING of thy FIRSTFRUITS unto YHWH thou shalt offer Leviticus 2:1 And when any will offer a MEAT OFFERING unto YHWH, his offering shall be of fine flour, he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon. Leviticus 6:21 In a pan it shall be made with oil; and when it is baken, thou shalt bring it in: and the baken pieces of meat offering shalt thou offer for a sweet savour unto YHWH Leviticus 1:9 A food offering with a pleasing aroma to YHWH Nehemiah 10:35-36 And we made ordinances to bring the FIRSTFRUITS... to the house of YHWH. To bring the FIRSTBORN OF OUR SONS and our cattle, AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE LAW. Micah 6:7 Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body, for the sin of my soul? Legend of the Jews 1&2 pg 313 by Ginsburg "YHWH has a habit of choosing a favorite member of our family as a SACRIFICE unto himself 2 Kings 3:27 So he took his firstborn son... and offered him.... as a burnt offering. Numbers 31:40 And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which YHWH's tribute was thirty and two persons (Midianite virgins) 31:41 And Moses gave tribute, which was YHWH'S HEAVE OFFERING, unto Eleazar the priest as an offering for YHWH, as YHWH commanded Moses. CANNIBALISM Deuteronomy 28:53 And thou eat the FRUIT of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons, and of thy daughters. Deuteronomy 28:57 Her children which she shall bear, for she shall eat them. Leviticus 26:29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall you eat Jeremiah 19:9 And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters. I Baruch 2:3-4 As it came to pass in Jerusalem, according to the things that are WRITTEN IN THE LAW of Moses. That we should eat-every man- the flesh of his own son, and every man the flesh of his own daughter. GOLD TREASURE Joshua 6:19 But all the silver and gold... are holy to YHWH; they shall go into the treasury Nahum 2:9 Plunder the silver and gold Numbers 31:50 An oblation for YHWH... jewels... gold Joshua 6:24 .. only the silver, and the gold... put into the treasury of YHWH
@@lysanamcmillan7972 he's a fire-breathing dragon Secrets of the serpent: In search of the sacred past. By Philip Gardiner pg 78 "On 1st century AD medallions which show JEHOVAH AS A SERPENT." Secret Doctrine vol 1 by Blavatsky pg 73 "Jehovah's name in Hebrew should be one Ehad... JEHOVAH esoterically (as elohim) is also the SERPENT OR DRAGON." Secret Doctrine vol 2 by Blavatsky pg 246 "The SERPENT to the (Yod) the poetical ideograph of JEHOVAH in the Kabalah" The Books of Enoch: The complete set by Dr Edward Hammond pg 68 (book of dreams) "His face was terrifying...then I saw the LORD standing before them, and his face was terrible. When they all saw him, they were frightened at his appearance. All of them were afraid and trembled.... 'we are unable to stand in our LORD'S presence, or look at him" The Other Bible by William Barnstone pg 495-500 (second book of Enoch/ Book of Secrets) "The Archangel Michael led Enoch before God's face, thus I saw the LORD'S face, but the LORD'S face is... awful, and very terrible" Exodus 33:20 Thou (Moses) canst not see my face. 33:22 ...and I will cover thee with my hand hand while I pass 33:23 I will take away mine hand, and thou shall see my back parts, but my face shall not be seen. FIRE-BREATHING DRAGON Leviticus 9:24 and there came a FIRE out from before YHWH... when the people saw it... Numbers 11:1 .. and the FIRE of YHWH burnt among them and consumed them... Leviticus 10:2... and there went out a FIRE from YHWH, and devoured them... Numbers 16:35 ...and there went out a FIRE from YHWH, and consumed the ... men Psalms 18:8 there went up smoke out of his nostrils, and FIRE out of his mouth II Samuel 22:9 there went up smoke out of his nostrils, and FIRE out of his mouth devoured Ezekiel 21:31 I will blow against thee, in the wrath of my fire. Psalms 97:3 a fire goeth before him and burneth up his enemies. Joel 2:3 a fire devoureth before the them... Zephaniah 1:18 the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy. Isaiah 11:15 YHWH will utterly destroy... with his scorching breath. Psalms 29:7 the voice of YHWH flashes forth flames of fire. Job 41:21 a flame goeth out of his mouth. DRAGON WINGS Psalms 91:41 under his WINGS you may seek refuge Psalms 36:7 take refuge in the shadow of your WINGS Psalms 61.4 in the shelter of your WINGS Deuteronomy 32:11 he spread his WINGS and caught them Jeremiah 49:22 swoop like an eagle and spread out his WINGS HUMAN SACRIFICE Exodus 22:29-30 Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe produce and of thy liquors. The firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me. Likewise shalt thou do with thine oxen and with thy sheep: seven days it shall be with it's dam; on the eighth day thou shalt give it to me. Leviticus 2:13 Every oblation of thy MEAT OFFERING thou shalt season with salt. Leviticus 2:14 a MEAT OFFERING of thy FIRSTFRUITS unto YHWH thou shalt offer Leviticus 2:1 And when any will offer a MEAT OFFERING unto YHWH, his offering shall be of fine flour, he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon. Leviticus 6:21 In a pan it shall be made with oil; and when it is baken, thou shalt bring it in: and the baken pieces of meat offering shalt thou offer for a sweet savour unto YHWH Leviticus 1:9 A food offering with a pleasing aroma to YHWH Nehemiah 10:35-36 And we made ordinances to bring the FIRSTFRUITS... to the house of YHWH. To bring the FIRSTBORN OF OUR SONS and our cattle, AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE LAW. Micah 6:7 Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body, for the sin of my soul? Legend of the Jews 1&2 pg 313 by Ginsburg "YHWH has a habit of choosing a favorite member of our family as a SACRIFICE unto himself 2 Kings 3:27 So he took his firstborn son... and offered him.... as a burnt offering. Numbers 31:40 And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which YHWH's tribute was thirty and two persons (Midianite virgins) 31:41 And Moses gave tribute, which was YHWH'S HEAVE OFFERING, unto Eleazar the priest as an offering for YHWH, as YHWH commanded Moses. CANNIBALISM Deuteronomy 28:53 And thou eat the FRUIT of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons, and of thy daughters. Deuteronomy 28:57 Her children which she shall bear, for she shall eat them. Leviticus 26:29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall you eat Jeremiah 19:9 And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters. I Baruch 2:3-4 As it came to pass in Jerusalem, according to the things that are WRITTEN IN THE LAW of Moses. That we should eat-every man- the flesh of his own son, and every man the flesh of his own daughter. GOLD TREASURE Joshua 6:19 But all the silver and gold... are holy to YHWH; they shall go into the treasury Nahum 2:9 Plunder the silver and gold Numbers 31:50 An oblation for YHWH... jewels... gold Joshua 6:24 .. only the silver, and the gold... put into the treasury of YHWH
@@lysanamcmillan7972 there’s a fun story about how during the first millennia BC, individual Jews would sometimes move out of Israel and settle somewhere else around the Mediterranean. There was a large community in Alexandria in the first century BC, and apparently some of them were putting on plays about the Exodus. The story of the exodus is highly offensive to the Egyptians, of course. So they got revenge by pointing out all the parallels between their demon god Seth and the Jewish god. Seth has the head of a donkey, so the Egyptians would claim Yahweh had the head of a donkey. And when the Jews would be like “nuh-uh” the Egyptians would respond “ok fine, show us what Yahweh looks like.” Of course, Judaism prohibits that. So they couldn’t prove the Egyptians wrong. I’ve heard a theory that this practice of tying Yahweh to Seth may have contributed to the development of Gnosticism. It might explain why most of the surviving Gnostic manuscripts are in Coptic.
Secrets of the serpent: In search of the sacred past. By Philip Gardiner pg 78 "On 1st century AD medallions which show JEHOVAH AS A SERPENT." Secret Doctrine vol 1 by Blavatsky pg 73 "Jehovah's name in Hebrew should be one Ehad... JEHOVAH esoterically (as elohim) is also the SERPENT OR DRAGON." Secret Doctrine vol 2 by Blavatsky pg 246 "The SERPENT to the (Yod) the poetical ideograph of JEHOVAH in the Kabalah" The Books of Enoch: The complete set by Dr Edward Hammond pg 68 (book of dreams) "His face was terrifying...then I saw the LORD standing before them, and his face was terrible. When they all saw him, they were frightened at his appearance. All of them were afraid and trembled.... 'we are unable to stand in our LORD'S presence, or look at him" The Other Bible by William Barnstone pg 495-500 (second book of Enoch/ Book of Secrets) "The Archangel Michael led Enoch before God's face, thus I saw the LORD'S face, but the LORD'S face is... awful, and very terrible" Exodus 33:20 Thou (Moses) canst not see my face. 33:22 ...and I will cover thee with my hand hand while I pass 33:23 I will take away mine hand, and thou shall see my back parts, but my face shall not be seen. FIRE-BREATHING DRAGON Leviticus 9:24 and there came a FIRE out from before YHWH... when the people saw it... Numbers 11:1 .. and the FIRE of YHWH burnt among them and consumed them... Leviticus 10:2... and there went out a FIRE from YHWH, and devoured them... Numbers 16:35 ...and there went out a FIRE from YHWH, and consumed the ... men Psalms 18:8 there went up smoke out of his nostrils, and FIRE out of his mouth II Samuel 22:9 there went up smoke out of his nostrils, and FIRE out of his mouth devoured Ezekiel 21:31 I will blow against thee, in the wrath of my fire. Psalms 97:3 a fire goeth before him and burneth up his enemies. Joel 2:3 a fire devoureth before the them... Zephaniah 1:18 the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy. Isaiah 11:15 YHWH will utterly destroy... with his scorching breath. Psalms 29:7 the voice of YHWH flashes forth flames of fire. Job 41:21 a flame goeth out of his mouth. DRAGON WINGS Psalms 91:41 under his WINGS you may seek refuge Psalms 36:7 take refuge in the shadow of your WINGS Psalms 61.4 in the shelter of your WINGS Deuteronomy 32:11 he spread his WINGS and caught them Jeremiah 49:22 swoop like an eagle and spread out his WINGS HUMAN SACRIFICE Exodus 22:29-30 Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe produce and of thy liquors. The firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me. Likewise shalt thou do with thine oxen and with thy sheep: seven days it shall be with it's dam; on the eighth day thou shalt give it to me. Leviticus 2:13 Every oblation of thy MEAT OFFERING thou shalt season with salt. Leviticus 2:14 a MEAT OFFERING of thy FIRSTFRUITS unto YHWH thou shalt offer Leviticus 2:1 And when any will offer a MEAT OFFERING unto YHWH, his offering shall be of fine flour, he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon. Leviticus 6:21 In a pan it shall be made with oil; and when it is baken, thou shalt bring it in: and the baken pieces of meat offering shalt thou offer for a sweet savour unto YHWH Leviticus 1:9 A food offering with a pleasing aroma to YHWH Nehemiah 10:35-36 And we made ordinances to bring the FIRSTFRUITS... to the house of YHWH. To bring the FIRSTBORN OF OUR SONS and our cattle, AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE LAW. Micah 6:7 Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body, for the sin of my soul? Legend of the Jews 1&2 pg 313 by Ginsburg "YHWH has a habit of choosing a favorite member of our family as a SACRIFICE unto himself 2 Kings 3:27 So he took his firstborn son... and offered him.... as a burnt offering. Numbers 31:40 And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which YHWH's tribute was thirty and two persons (Midianite virgins) 31:41 And Moses gave tribute, which was YHWH'S HEAVE OFFERING, unto Eleazar the priest as an offering for YHWH, as YHWH commanded Moses. CANNIBALISM Deuteronomy 28:53 And thou eat the FRUIT of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons, and of thy daughters. Deuteronomy 28:57 Her children which she shall bear, for she shall eat them. Leviticus 26:29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall you eat Jeremiah 19:9 And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters. I Baruch 2:3-4 As it came to pass in Jerusalem, according to the things that are WRITTEN IN THE LAW of Moses. That we should eat-every man- the flesh of his own son, and every man the flesh of his own daughter. GOLD TREASURE Joshua 6:19 But all the silver and gold... are holy to YHWH; they shall go into the treasury Nahum 2:9 Plunder the silver and gold Numbers 31:50 An oblation for YHWH... jewels... gold Joshua 6:24 .. only the silver, and the gold... put into the treasury of YHWH
Imagine reading a book that promotes slavery, homophobia and genocide, but thinking "they *actually saw god* and didn't die" is the part that's "theologically problematic."
One of the issues that I have with the whole concept of "Divine Inspiration for the Bible" is WHERE exactly is the Divine? Is it in the original Authors? Is it in whoever Collected the writings, because many of the "Books" of the Bible are clearly written by multiple Authors (were all of them "Inspired")? Is it in the Editors, Dan talks about in this video? Is it in those who Compiled the various book into the text(s) we today call "The Bible"? Or, could it possibly be in the recognition, by the hearers and readers who collectively recognised such texts as, somehow, "Inspired"?
"When was the bible “finished?” Which Bible? The one with 73 books in it? Or the one with only 66 books? Or the Eastern Orthodox Bible which has 81 books?
*The “original” Bible* This is the kind of thing I ask of people when they talk about “the original Bible,” or the “Bible before it was corrupted.” And what if an author rewrote his scroll before disseminating it to anyone? Which is the original, “uncorrupted” version?
The whole concept of angels resembles that of lesser gods and demigods in what Christians refer to as "pagan religions." They're nonphysical beings with powers either of their own, or imbued by God.
They're very physical. ANGELS/MESSENGERS (Serpents/dragons) Judges 13:3 a man of god came unto me, and his countenance was like the countenance of an ANGEL of God, very terrible. III Maccabees 6:18 From which two messengers, dreadful of form, came down.. Revelation of Zephaniah 6:8 I saw a great messenger... his teeth were outside of his mouth, like a bear... his body was like the serpents... The Genius of the Few - by Christian O'Brien pg 136 "Old Testament, the Hebraic term which is translated into English as 'angel' is mal'ak meaning 'a messenger' But an earlier expression for 'the angels' was 'ha'neshek' meaning 'the serpent' pg 135,137 "the seniors were termed two-faced serpents" (arch angels) "The juniors were termed one-face serpents" (angels) Books of Enoch the Prophet by RH Charles pg 17 "Gabriel, one of the holy angels, is over paradise, and the serpents and the cherubim" The Books of Enoch by Dr Edward Hammond (2 Enoch, Slavonic secrets of Enoch) pg 112 "I saw...guards... standing like serpents... and their teeth were sharp" pg 16 "whenever they wished to, they assumed the like that of the sons of men" The complete dead sea scrolls in English (Testament of Amram) pg 535 "I raised my eyes and saw one of them, his looks were frightening (like those of a vi)per, ..his appearance was like that of an adder." The Legend of the Jews 1&2 by Louis Ginzberg 45 "Satan, the greatest of the ANGELS in heaven. 50 "the serpent was notable... like man he stood upright on two feet, and in height was equal to the camel" 51 "he approached the woman, knowing that women are beguiled easily" 54 "thou didst seek to cause the death of Adam, in order to espouse his wife" 62 "but the cunning accursed serpent (Satan) seduced me with the tree of desire and lusts, yea, he seduced the wife of my bosom" 71 "when god bestowed paradise upon the first pair of mankind, he warned them particularly against carnal intercourse with each other. But after the fall of Eve, Satan, in the guise of a serpent approached her, and the fruit of their union was Cain, the ancestor of all the impious generations... Cain's descent from Satan, who is the ANGEL Samael, was revealed in his Seraphic appearance. At his birth, the exclamation was wrung from Eve 'I have gotten a man through an ANGEL of the LORD'" Genesis 4.1 and she conceived and bare Cain, and said I have gotten a man from the LORD 1 John 3:12 Cain, who was of that wicked one. Nag Hammadi Scriptures (Gospel of Philip) 91 "and he was begotten in adultery, for he was the child of a serpent" (Eve's "LORD") (Secret Book of John) 107 "He entered and beguiled Eve" 126 "The serpent instructed them to eat of the wickedness of sexual desire" (Apocalypse of Adam) 82 "Then the GOD WHO CREATED US, created a son from himself and Eve." (On the Origin of the World) 71 "they knew that they were naked, with regard to knowledge ... when they saw their MAKERS, they loathed them, since they were BEASTLY FORMS. They understood very much" Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked. Legends of the Jews 1&2 pg 53 "Adam slandered God, and uttered blasphemous against him" Dragons and Dragon Lore by Ernest Ingersoll 158 "Grendel this monster grim was called... kin of Cain... of Cain woke that woeful race" Books of Enoch pg 126 "Sopanima was childless, for she was barren... yet she conceived, but Nir had... had not lain with her" ("Immaculate conception"🙄) 127 "the baby came from the dead Sopanima... Noah and Nir looked upon him, and saw that a seal of priesthood was on it's chest and it had an appearance of glory... 'behold, the LORD renews consecration along our bloodline, as is the desire of the Lord... they bestowed the... name Melchizedek.. Noah said... guard this child in secret... for men... will put him to death" 129-130 "the lord said to Michael... go down to earth, to Nir, and take MY CHILD who is with him, and set him in the garden of Eden to guard him... Melchizedek will be chief of priests.... and in 1070 years (Abraham) will find another Melchizedek... he will be priest and the first king in a town of (Jeru)Salem, after the fashion of this Melchizedek" MOSES Douay Rheims Bible Exodus 34:29 When Moses came down from the Mount Sinai... he knew not that HIS FACE WAS HORNED... 34:30 ... the children of Israel, seeing the FACE OF MOSES HORNED, were afraid to come near 34:33 He put a veil on his face 34:35 And they saw that the face of Moses when he came out WAS HORNED, but he covered his face again, if at any time he spoke to them. The Book of Legends Sefer Ha-Aggadah Pg. 64 "When Moses and Aaron stationed themselves in Pharaoh's presence, all the kings saw that the two seemed like ministering angels... their mouths, like a flame of fire. Seeing that, the fear of the two fell upon all of the kings" Legend of the Jews 1&2 Pg. 480 "The burning bush appeared to Moses alone...THE COUNTENANCE OF MOSES DISTORTED" Pg. 499 Within the Palace, Moses and Aaron... The two men RESEMBLED ANGELS... their mouths emitted flames, when they opened them... his voice heweth out flames of fire" Books of Enoch Pg. 69 "Then... (Moses) talking with him, the other (Isrealites) went to those which had gone astray and began to kill them. They were AFRAID BECAUSE OF HIS APPEARANCE JEHOVAH/YAHWEH/YHWH Secrets of the serpent: In search of the sacred past. By Philip Gardiner pg 78 "On 1st century AD medallions which show JEHOVAH AS A SERPENT." Secret Doctrine vol 1 by Blavatsky pg 73 "Jehovah's name in Hebrew should be one Ehad... JEHOVAH esoterically (as elohim) is also the SERPENT OR DRAGON." Secret Doctrine vol 2 by Blavatsky pg 246 "The SERPENT to the (Yod) the poetical ideograph of JEHOVAH in the Kabalah" The Books of Enoch: The complete set by Dr Edward Hammond pg 68 (book of dreams) "His face was terrifying...then I saw the LORD standing before them, and his face was terrible. When they all saw him, they were frightened at his appearance. All of them were afraid and trembled.... 'we are unable to stand in our LORD'S presence, or look at him" The Other Bible by William Barnstone pg 495-500 (second book of Enoch/ Book of Secrets) "The Archangel Michael led Enoch before God's face, thus I saw the LORD'S face, but the LORD'S face is... awful, and very terrible" Exodus 33:20 Thou canst not see my face. 33:22 .. I will cover thee with my hand 33:23 I will take away mine hand, and thou shall see my back parts, but my face shall not be seen. FIRE-BREATHING DRAGON Leviticus 9:24 and there came a FIRE out from before YHWH... when the people saw it... Numbers 11:1 .. and the FIRE of YHWH burnt among them and consumed them... Leviticus 10:2... and there went out a FIRE from YHWH, and devoured them... Numbers 16:35 ...and there went out a FIRE from YHWH, and consumed the ... men Psalms 18:8 there went up smoke out of his nostrils, and FIRE out of his mouth II Samuel 22:9 there went up smoke out of his nostrils, and FIRE out of his mouth devoured Ezekiel 21:31 I will blow against thee, in the wrath of my fire. Psalms 97:3 a fire goeth before him and burneth up his enemies. Joel 2:3 a fire devoureth before the them... Zephaniah 1:18 the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy. Psalms 29:7 the voice of YHWH flashes forth flames of fire. Job 41:21 a flame goeth out of his mouth. DRAGON WINGS Deuteronomy 32:11 he spread his WINGS and caught them
But the problem lies not where you think. Let’s go back in time to the year 850 BCE. There is a growing devotion to Y-H in the land of Isra’el but this devotion is at the top of society and there are gobs of polytheist sites. People are practicing whatever and it’s largely ok with everybody else. If Joe over in the corner is seeing pink dragons at the alter to Anubis, hey that’s just Joe taking a trip. We get into the late 7th century and people do worry about the visions of the high priests of the prophets, but still the high priest is the mouthpiece of god and the king is his arms. But then that system vanishes and the power to speak god comes from the prophets like Ezekiel Now I have said this before, Ezekiel is not a text for children, while these innuendoes of adult sex themes permeate the Bible, it’s a problem here in America because we are such sexual prudes. But the text of Ezekiel presents a number of problems from a mystical perspective and must be interpreted very cautiously. So what kinds of problems does it create and for whom does it create. The problem it creates is that Ezekiel describes a process of seeing god, his throne and gods chariot. In fact he is not just envisioning god’s throne he is seeing aspects of Mesopotamian belief, throne rooms in heaven, tears of Tammuz. Ezekiel does not tell you that or how the magick of lower Mesopotamian culture is influencing him but any reasonable mystic can see that it is. And so after Ezekiel two forms of Jewish mysticism develop, Hekhalot and Merkavah mysticism in which the divine seeker has several magical landmarks. And we know people are doing this because stories about it are popping up in the Apocrypha and the Talmud. And so, the key developing problem in that having returned to Jerusalem they are now in the domain of desert sages that travel between Arabia and the Dead Sea which later become the desert mystics. Here is the problem, only the magick of the temple allows the high priest to commune with god (interpret that as you like). But Ezekiel’s mysticism allows anyone who puts in the effort can see god. When the temple was not around, this was not a big problem. Once the high priesthood is restored to the temple it is a problem because it undermines their authority of the Sanhedrin, And the text of the scrolls are being written by the scribes within the temple building itself. And these threats appear to grow as the Bible is being written, because Jerusalem is becoming a crossroads for an empire that stretches over three continents. We know for instance there was an elephantine cult of Yahweh, but there were also desert cults and then there are the mysterious Y-H followers in Yathrib. In the time of 2nd century BCE some of these distal groups merged with Christian thought to form “Gnosticism”. So why is it a problem, What if I imagine Y-H to be a woman What if I imagine the god to be a giant sword telling me to defeat all the Greeks What if I imagine the god to be naked, telling me to start a nudist colony on the temple mound. So then the high priest can say you did not see god you saw one of his messengers, or alternatively one of the Shaddayim or the Beliel gods. Most likely, in order to maintain their authority the visions of any sage will be delegated to visions of wicked beings.
Another bad take. The septuagint is older than the masoretic text. You cannot argue that scribes added "angel" to the text, when the oldest text we have included the word angel, and the masoretic text, which doesn't include it, is somehow the more accurate or at least the closest to the original version.
@@hrvatskinoahid1048 thank you for stating the obvious. Doesn't change what I said. Septuagint is a direct translation of the Torah from Hebrew to Greek, and it's older than the Masoretic text. It's always been "angel of the Lord." To suggest it was added later as if it had always been omitted is nonsense.
@@hrvatskinoahid1048 then we are saying the same thing. The OP is claiming that the word "angel" was added by the septuagint and other text, but you don't find it in the masoretic text, which he seems to believe is more accurate. It makes no sense.
You still can't explain why unrelated groups of manuscripts don't preserve the tradition of the Angel of the Lord in certain passages. We know very well that the Septuagint (and Second Temple Manuscripts) often adds or substitutes words for angel or distances the figure of God from that of humans
Consider that angel is an “ angle “ of light aka a “ photon”. We are the light of the world, Jesus is the light of the world, The I am is the light of the world ( photon). Light comes from the Sun( Son ) of the Father to give life.
And with that in mind, I believe that these are OT Christophanies of YESHUA (Jesus) the Son before He came in the flesh, including the Ram in the Bush and on Mt. Sinai. John 1:18 says, "No man hath seen God at any time", and Colossians 1:15 says, "He is the image of the invisible God." John 1:1-2 says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God." Understanding the Word ELOHIM is so important in these instances. Shalom
@@Ex_christian Oh the entire Bible? So Pontius Pilate didn’t exist? Herod didn’t exist? Caiaphas? Luke, Mark, Paul, Peter, John etc didn’t exist and are myths? Or do you mean events? Like the crucifixion of Jesus which many Scholars agree happened? Or His baptism by John the Baptist which many Scholars also agree happened? Maybe you’re talking about the Maccabees and the rebellion against the Seleucid Dynasty? Or maybe, just maybe you’re referring to the miracles that you refuse to believe happened.
You cannot directly see God because He radiates glory. When sinners see glory such as Daniel, John or the Roman soldiers at the tomb, they collapse. Moses captured some of that glory on his face and that is why he had to cover his face. In life, if I come too close to a bushfire, the radiant heat will kill me. Can you give a witness to where Hebrew scholars added "an angel" or is this just a claim you made up out of your head?
Question, isn't this Angel identified as Jesus? And would just continue to prove that Jesus is in fact God since that's what the Angel claims? I think it was in your video with a passage from Jude that you agreed said that is Jesus
The angel has a God and is a distinct being. Jesus also never identified himself as an angel. In fact Hebrews refutes the claim Jesus as an angel. Jesus also has a God above him
@@leom6343 I agree, but in Dan's video "Does the epistle of Jude say that Jesus is God" from 3-4 weeks ago, he acknowledges the claim that Jesus is the Angel of the Lord and that that's probably what Jude meant.
A post hoc invention of Greco-Roman Christian converts who knew little of the Hebrew Bible, but inserted their own “pagan” frameworks onto the superstructure of the texts.
@@Zypher. Jesus and the angel of the Lord still have a God above them. The angel of the Lord is just a messenger. Like a Phone, where you can send messages and the letter of Jude is just a small letter. Nowhere in the gospels it says Jesus is the angel of the Lord. In fact the angel comes to Mary and is identified as Gabriel.
@@alanb8884 how so? Anything said to Moses would either be God Himself or the angel of God. The angel of God can only ack/ speak with the authority of God. So even if it was an angel it would have only happened with God's permission
@@gabbygood6813you have many unstated assumptions, it’s impossible to even know where to start to critique your statement. I suspect you haven’t read scholarly material.
The whole concept of angels resembles that of lesser gods and demigods in what Christians refer to as "pagan religions." They're nonphysical beings with powers either of their own, or imbued by God.
Maybe the ancients regarded this "angel" or messenger of the lord to be some kind of messaging system, like it's a functionary relaying messages in and out of the mortal realm and the divine realm, like a telephone. If so, then passages like exodus 3, where it's the messenger of Yhwh in the first instance, but it's yhwh himself for the rest of the conversation makes more sense. Consider the following analogy: The telephone rang (messenger attracted my attention), I answered and a voice from the telephone (messenger) told me to take off my shoes. I asked who was speaking and the voice came back with a chuckle saying "I will be what I am, I'm the god of your forefathers". A brief conversation followed, where the god told me what he wanted me to do.
That was a later development. There was much more communion between the divine realms and mortal realms in the past. It wasn’t as big of a deal as people make it now.
@@leom6343 both of those people you cited are thoroughly Hellenized Jewish thinkers who fit into the stereotypical trend exemplifying my point, to the T. Earlier texts and thinkers, it is clear, did not think that way, as a rule. Those more ancient tended to be much closer to divine contact.
@@hardwork8395 hellenised Jews were more prone to be polytheistic but not even they believed the angel of the Lord is God himself. I agree that Jews were also polytheistic, but in the first century it mostly ended. Jesus for sure wouldn't have believed it. And in my opinion, its clear in the bible itself that the angel of God and God are distinct beings where one is the God of the other.
Even in your video, you have to say this "most likely happened" because you can't prove it. You can show different manuscripts saying different things but so what? That has been one of my issues with the dead sea scrolls and translations based on them, and it is a big reason I am KJV only. When I say that, I mean either the 1611 Edition with old English or the Authorized Version. I fully trust the translators got it right.
@@pamelai2581 King James simply authorized the Bible be created. His personal life has no bearing on anything. I consider you personally ignorant as you just accept the ignorant teachings of people that admit they can't prove their claims.
@@jbutero1 The vast majority of Christians do not consider the KJV authoritative, and you criticize a lack of proof with a statement that is similarly not subject to being proven.
I think the bulk of gen-2kings was originally greek and no older than the original LXX. This is why it consists of dramatic narrative typical of greek literature, but absent from the prophets. Greek fingerprints include depictions of corporeal gods with anthropomorphic features to the twink-on-twink action of the David and Jonathan romance. Close inspection of certain passages, like when YHVH tries to kill Moses, show a sloppy back-translation from greek to Hebrew, where the text makes more sense in greek.
I am continually amazed by the Bible. I'm an ex-conservative evangelical Christian. I was raised on the dogmas of Divine inspiration of the Bible, that it is the literal, plenary, and inerrant word of God. It was always univocal among the 66 books of the Bible we used. As an atheist, I am finding more depth and a better understanding of the development of my former religion since I happily stumbled upon Biblical textual scholarship. I love the Bible now in a way I didn't know was possible when I left theism. I'm 69 years old; it's wonderful to have the opportunity to receive such an education this late in life. I'm thankful I found your channel, and I appreciate all of your dedication to sharing your knowledge with the public. 💫
Same. It is far more interesting to me to see the bible as an amazing work in progress.
That is exactly how the cookie crumbles.
-Source: critical scholarship
I agree, the history behind the books is more interesting than the religions
I'm right there with you, its opened up so many new ways of explaining how it got the way it did and what it meant for people of the time and later. That the bible evolved along with our history, informing it and being informed by it.
@@leom6343 Folding in the religious ideas, texts, commentaries, history brings such a richer and evolving experience. Like this idea of God initially being something that people interacted directly with, but later they wanted to distance that idea so they add angels, and prophets, then they say Jesus is God and it goes full circle, then the cycle starts again and we see saints becoming intercessors and then reformation back to the holy spirit and praying directly to Jesus. I couldn't see the cyclic nature and push-pull when the book was inerrant and univocal.
re: the editing of the Bible, Molly Zahn does not disappoint.
The Bible Project does a good video on who the Angel of The Lord is, I always read these passages as an angel and understood them as God. Simple as that.
God is not an angel.
@@hrvatskinoahid1048god can be an angel if it wants to be. God can even be Charlie’s Angels- all three of them.
The Bible project is not a good source of biblical scholarship. They assume univocality and coverup contradictions and discontinuity in the bible. I would not trust their interpretations on anything if I were you.
@@hrvatskinoahid1048 never said that, check out the video I mentioned. What I was talking about was how I interpreted the way in which God chose to reveal Himself
Works of fiction that won’t go away
Great insight. This clears up things so much better than the fundamentalist stuff I was taught at seminary about how theophanies are always Jesus or always angels, or always visions, or some other apologetic claptrap.
Exodus 23:20-22 ESV
[20] “Behold, I send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. [21] Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him. [22] “But if you carefully obey his voice and do all that I say, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.
Wow… I actually didn’t know that… this one actually made me instantly go look this up…
A lot of limitations on this god. Almost like he was written about by humans.
So even ancient people engaged in retconning. Remember folks... Luke and Leia didn't know they were twins until episode V and we didn't either. Oh... and we didn't know who Luke's father was or how Luke's father died. In fact, the recent Obi-Wan series, engaged in further retconning to further smooth that part of the story out. Folks.. May the force be with you.
I think the sibling thing actually didn't show up until VI.
@@TacticusPrime "There is another." when Yoda and the force ghost Obi-Wan were upset with Luke abandoning his training.
But of course, I was a child back then. I'm probably so used to knowing the ending (Return) that I'm back filling and internally retconning the information dumps.
@@jenniferhunter4074 Yeah, it was a retcon. Lucas definitely didn't have the siblings kiss on purpose. Making Leia into Luke's sister was just a clumsy way to resolve the love triangle.
One of the biggest RetCon’s is the fanfic/theory/Head canon where Han Solo says that the Falcon “made the kessel run in 12 Parsecs…”
And then the fans got into theorizing how it was possible since Parsecs are a measure of distance and not time…
It wasn’t Han telling that the ship is fast, it’s supposed to show that he’s a blowhard who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
The script says “obi-wan looks at him disbelieving” or something like that… and no one caught on to it, and Harrison Ford got popular so it’s now canon that the Falcon cut super close to the black hole because of the piloting
@@jackaltwinky77 And then, Solo the movie had to explain in excruciating detail how he got his name and how he met Chewie and the Kessel run. I liked the mystery and the freedom to speculate. (i did read a bit of the EU but that was a long long time ago, in a decade far far away.)
Hey Mr. McClellan, I often hear the argument from apologists that God is "outside of space and time". Is this how God would have been interpreted by early Christians or is this merely a modern invention to "gin up" better arguments for God?
Thanks in advance
I'm not Dan, but I am familiar with the argument. It wasn't a well understood concept of early Christians, it's a more modern reinterpretation of scriptures that imply God is "timeless" or "does not change" (like Psalm 102:27, Malachi 3:6). I'm not sure about the exact origins of the specific phrase "God exists outside of space and time", it seems to have been popularized sometime in the later half of the 19th century. You can see authors in that time span trying to reframe Christian theology to fit within the surge in popularity of more secular scientific theories about the age of the Earth and the origins of life.
@@marv-n-24 Thanks, not Dan. I suspected as much though it's always nice to have the perspective of those more well versed in the subject.
The Jesus followers existed in a time and place where Aristotle's cosmology was commonly accepted. So, no, this entire concept of "outside of spacetime" is not only irrational but also false historically. Bible god, along with every other god, demi-god, angel, demon etc. lived in outer space. They functionally served the same memetic role that space aliens do today. Mysterious, powerful beings from beyond the stars that are, bizarrely, deeply interested in the affairs of a species of ape on a single planet.
The issue is that Aristotle's cosmology is as foreign to us as the Bronze Age cosmology would have been to the early christians. Go read about the sublunary sphere sometime. It's wacky. Effectively, they thought physics only existed in the area below the moon. So that's here on Earth as well as in the elemental spheres that comprise the area between the Earth and the Moon. They thought everything beyond the moon was made of imperishable, incorruptible stuff. Does this sound familiar? Think about Paul describing the new body people would have when the apocalypse comes.
These people were conceiving of the cosmos in ways that we simply do not anymore. So their writings are necessarily cryptic as a result. Which forces modern people who want the book to reflect reality to jam many square pegs into several round holes. Apologists don't know what they're looking at in the Bible and they don't care to. They just want the book to support their ideas, the dogmas they have about the Bible, and anything which contradicts those ideas gets shoved aside or reinterpreted no matter how nonsensical or erroneous.
@@marv-n-24That’s an utterly laughable thesis. Have you read the Church Fathers? The immutability and eternity of the Fathers as opposed to the mutability and temporality of creation is critical to their understanding of the creator creation distinction. Read Book 1 of The First Principles by Origen of Alexandria, the Catechetical Discourse of St. Gregory of Nyssa, and The Summa Theologiae Part 1, Question 10 by St. Thomas Aquinas if you think God’s eternity was invented in the 19th century 😂. Explain the eternal/aeviternal distinction of the Middle Ages without considering God as outside of time.
God has gone to the post office to get a change-of-address form at least a couple times.
God used to be in heaven, above the clouds, as described in the Tower of Babel story. "Let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven."
Well, once we leaned to make aircraft that could go higher than clouds, God had to move somewhere else: Into space. And once we started exploring space and didn't find God, that's because He moved again, and is now "beyond space and time," whatever that means.
Need a post from Dan confirming that Jack Kirby is the almighty of comic book creators!! 😁
It feels to me that is partly why some societies are still mosty antisemic and homophobic. I know this from you so i am extremely thankfull. And still hope christian societies may eventually improve....
Was this view of seeing a god and dying common to the ancient southwest Asia of it all? Or is it solely a Jewish viewpoint?
Can you also relate with the battle between Zeus and Odin in terms of original sins? I feel even closer to you now
What do you think of the argument that the original author wanted to portray the Angel of YHWH as both God and also distinct from God; in other words, that it was written that was intentionally from the beginning rather than edited later?
Tim Mackie from the Bible Project has argued this, for instance.
And then later editors removed the "angel" from some texts?
That is theologically impossible in Judaism.
That's what I call inspired text.
Soooooo...
At some point it was no longer cool to talk to god yourself ?
You have to go through channels ?
Like an angel, or an establishled priestly ruling class ?
If we were trained in the discipline to distinguish between the terms "Lord" and "God," we'd be able to resolve this confusion. Given how Shiloh (Genesis 10:49) migrates from a man to a city in the days of Joshua, we can argue that discerning between "Lord" and "God" was lost. But it's with an assurance that by the time of David, discerning between "Lord" and "God" was a foregone hope. In Psalm 115, David unveils a god of Israel that's no different from what we find with the heathen. What defines their relevance and ascendancey is a result or outcome that favors the contending tribe.
Scholars have been discussing those very things collectively for well over a hundred years, comparing different textual traditions, manuscripts, philological analyses, etc. What you point out is a very laudable uninformed, lay attempt, but compared to what they’ve teased out, over hundreds of academic papers and books, is rather shallow and naive in comparison.
@@hardwork8395, thanks for your reply. Yes, my approach may be shallow and naive compared to the past's great philological (tough word) minds. But if they all deliver you to a god who relies on sin to propagate mankind (incest), if they all resolve God's image as "male" OR "female" that they affect their Adam and Eve narrative, I'd prefer to be among the shallow and naive. If you get the beginning wrong, you have no hope of understanding how it evolves and ends.
It's probably in part the deliberate muddying of the waters between El and Yahweh, the latter being a Midianite tribal deity who migrated north and usurped El's place among the Hebrews.
Not the best retcon ever.
(Thank you.)
The Ot we have comes from Esra the scribe anyways. Even church fathers admit that the Ot Was corrupted and forgotten and "reestablished" by Esra
As Dan mentioned in his video yesterday, the book of Jeremiah not only admits but complains about the same thing. They didn't have a doctrine of biblical inerrancy back then.
As Dan mentioned in his video yesterday, the book of Jeremiah not only admits but complains about the same thing. They didn't have a doctrine of biblical inerrancy back then.
@@integrationalpolytheism inerrancy only refers to small mistakes, not whole books written as forgeries. And Jesus confirmed every word of the OT. Paul too
@@leom6343 Which books did Jesus and Paul confirm were scripture? Judith? Enoch? Wisdom of Solomon? Tobit? Neither of them said what the scripture included and didn't, not in a book for book, and certainly not in a word for word way.
@@work3753 Jesus in Matthew confirmed the canon he knew. He not even confirmed the whole canon but each word and letter. Paul referred to the Hebrew canon he knew and said it is God breathed.
Of course they were wrong. Because we know that the books werent even written by the traditional authors. They believed in the inerrancy of the books they knew
Such a pity that Clozapine or Risperidone was not available to these poor people in those days.
I don’t think a single of these stories is of someone having hallucinations, I think they’re all literally just stories, myths. Taking the supernatural elements as being hallucinations is like taking Spider-Man comics and thinking that the writers were hallucinating about Spider-Man while they were in New York.
@@sanguillotine You missed the point. If you are confused about "spider-man" being real or not, then you have a mental issue.
@@roberthunter6927 If Judaism was based on a man alone in a cave, you would have reason to doubt it. But God revealed Himself to the entire nation of Israel, at least three million people, and proclaimed before them the Ten Commandments.
@@roberthunter6927 maybe people believing in these stories now might need some help, but I don’t think that’s the case for the people in the past. In the past people hardly knew anything about the world they lived in beyond their locality. Why shouldn’t they believe there’s a God, or angels, or men who cast spells and perform miracles? These aren’t things they can easily disprove, especially when they hadn’t even conceptualized a scientific process.
@@sanguillotine Indeed, and that is part of the irony. Worse, religious thinking is a natural part of us. In other words, natural selection made us a little paranoid. Is there a tiger or snake in that bush, or was it just the wind that made the bush move? The dude that just imagined it was the wind probably got the Darwin award, and the paranoid person got to survive and have kids.
Science could only come after we got some leisure time left over from the process of mere survival. But by then, we had already personified "good and evil". So we are naturally bad at science and statistics. By and large, elders are valuable [even true in the animal kingdom, the old matriarch elephant and so on]. So we developed ancestor worship, which is only a small step away from idealized warlords and elders. So all the pieces were in place for gods to be invented. The animation of inanimate objects and forces completes the puzzle. But "Survival Heuristics" can only get you so far.
Yes, I probably was trashing the ancients unfairly, because their 'crime" was ignorance, not wilful ignorance. Of course, ignorance itself is not a crime. Indeed, it can be a spur to further inquiry.
But can survival heuristics be nuanced? I think yes. You are close to dying of thirst at a water hole. But there are lions or whatever there. So if you can take into account the distances involved, animal territories, and feeding patterns, etc, and you can just nip in there, take a drink, and get out of "Dodge". Or you come to the lake armed. Then it occurs to you that you that if you are armed, you may not need to hunt, forage or farm, and so warfare was born.
And because we are naturally religious, the "Jihad" was born. :-)
give the Quran a chance
Received by a man alone in a cave.
Another mythical book like all religious cult texts…..
@@hrvatskinoahid1048just like how the Bible was written
@@hrvatskinoahid1048 don’t change your mind, just read it 🤷♂️
@@Ex_christian I guess the only way to find out is by reading 🤷♂️
The ealiest form of m-l-k was ŋalga, which is preserved in an Old Babylonian lexical list as:
ŋalga = mi-el-ku
The association of angels with messengers is derived from this Sumerian word for "advice" and "forethought."
I think it's good to bear in mind the Sumerian source of the derivation of m-l-k.
It would be nice to have an exhaustive list of Hebrew words derived from Sumerian.
I'm just glad that whoever started writing "From an unused primitive root" is no longer with us.
The Hebrew malak comes from the Northwest Semitic verbal root l'k, which means "to send."
@@maklelan You would say that it is more closely related to שָׁלַח than milku? Ultimately related to the root for "to go"?
So, the word for King is derived from ŋalga while the word for messenger is derived from l'k. I had assumed that the connotation of advisement and king was the source of the sense of the delivering of the advisement by a m-l-k.
I think Dan's giving people too much credit. It seems more likely that they just used different words for the same entity, or this is a linguistic style that is no longer understood.
By the way, wherever you see "angel of the lord," which is found throughout the OT and NT, it is a reference to Jesus. Jesus is God, so whether it says "angel of the Lord" or just "Lord," it is the same. And we find this is consistent throughout the Bible, since only in certain cases do you see "angel of the lord" vs mentions of actual angels, such as Gabriel or Michael.
Don’t be antisemitic. The ancient JEWISH writers were not writing about the founder of Christianity
Jesus was a person. The main prohibition against idol worship is not to serve one of the creations, be it an angel, a spiritual power, a constellation, a star or a planet, one of the fundamentals of the physical creation, a person, an animal, a tree, or any other created thing.
@@SethRGray fine - it was the pre-incarnate Christ.
@@hrvatskinoahid1048 no prohibition against worshiping the pre-incarnate Christ, which is what "angel of the Lord" is.
@@cman04 Worshiping a person violates the Noahide prohibition of idolatry for all Gentiles.
Dan, I know that this idea shouldnt be unfamiliar to you based on your background and what you once professed to believe with all your heart and even claim to "know". Your former knowledge is being taken away and you're being left to your own devices and your own reasoning and getting lost in it. Or you are misleading others about this topic on purpose.
A simple explanation for all of this besides "yes, we know that the Bible isnt infallible, but it's certainly a whole lot better than not having it" is the truth that "whether by mine own voice or the voice of my servants, it is the same"
Bruce R McConkie had some big word-name for it, but it's escaping me at this moment. I'm certain you already know what I'm talking about.
A representative of the Lord, coming in the name and authority of the Lord, can claim to be God, for all intents and purposes.
You should understand this, so either you forgot something so basic, or you've rejected it intentionally and are now spreading what you know to be a lie in order to soothe your injured conscience.
I hope you can realize that you've lost your way and come to rely on the Savior once again and repent and improve. It'd be great to see you promoting the gospel of Christ once again.
“You can’t look at me or you’ll die.” My Lord is never beating the donkey-head allegations 😂
Secrets of the serpent: In search of the sacred past. By Philip Gardiner pg 78
"On 1st century AD medallions which show JEHOVAH AS A SERPENT."
Secret Doctrine vol 1 by Blavatsky pg 73
"Jehovah's name in Hebrew should be one Ehad... JEHOVAH esoterically (as elohim) is also the SERPENT OR DRAGON."
Secret Doctrine vol 2 by Blavatsky pg 246
"The SERPENT to the (Yod) the poetical ideograph of JEHOVAH in the Kabalah"
The Books of Enoch: The complete set by Dr Edward Hammond pg 68 (book of dreams)
"His face was terrifying...then I saw the LORD standing before them, and his face was terrible. When they all saw him, they were frightened at his appearance. All of them were afraid and trembled.... 'we are unable to stand in our LORD'S presence, or look at him"
The Other Bible by William Barnstone pg 495-500 (second book of Enoch/ Book of Secrets)
"The Archangel Michael led Enoch before God's face, thus I saw the LORD'S face, but the LORD'S face is... awful, and very terrible"
Exodus 33:20 Thou (Moses) canst not see my face.
33:22 ...and I will cover thee with my hand hand while I pass
33:23 I will take away mine hand, and thou shall see my back parts, but my face shall not be seen.
FIRE-BREATHING DRAGON
Leviticus 9:24 and there came a FIRE out from before YHWH... when the people saw it...
Numbers 11:1 .. and the FIRE of YHWH burnt among them and consumed them...
Leviticus 10:2... and there went out a FIRE from YHWH, and devoured them...
Numbers 16:35 ...and there went out a FIRE from YHWH, and consumed the ... men
Psalms 18:8 there went up smoke out of his nostrils, and FIRE out of his mouth
II Samuel 22:9 there went up smoke out of his nostrils, and FIRE out of his mouth devoured
Ezekiel 21:31 I will blow against thee, in the wrath of my fire.
Psalms 97:3 a fire goeth before him and burneth up his enemies.
Joel 2:3 a fire devoureth before the them...
Zephaniah 1:18 the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy.
Isaiah 11:15 YHWH will utterly destroy... with his scorching breath.
Psalms 29:7 the voice of YHWH flashes forth flames of fire.
Job 41:21 a flame goeth out of his mouth.
DRAGON WINGS
Psalms 91:41 under his WINGS you may seek refuge
Psalms 36:7 take refuge in the shadow of your WINGS
Psalms 61.4 in the shelter of your WINGS
Deuteronomy 32:11 he spread his WINGS and caught them
Jeremiah 49:22 swoop like an eagle and spread out his WINGS
HUMAN SACRIFICE
Exodus 22:29-30
Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe produce and of thy liquors. The firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me. Likewise shalt thou do with thine oxen and with thy sheep: seven days it shall be with it's dam; on the eighth day thou shalt give it to me.
Leviticus 2:13
Every oblation of thy MEAT OFFERING thou shalt season with salt.
Leviticus 2:14
a MEAT OFFERING of thy FIRSTFRUITS unto YHWH thou shalt offer
Leviticus 2:1
And when any will offer a MEAT OFFERING unto YHWH, his offering shall be of fine flour, he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon.
Leviticus 6:21
In a pan it shall be made with oil; and when it is baken, thou shalt bring it in: and the baken pieces of meat offering shalt thou offer for a sweet savour unto YHWH
Leviticus 1:9
A food offering with a pleasing aroma to YHWH
Nehemiah 10:35-36
And we made ordinances to bring the FIRSTFRUITS... to the house of YHWH. To bring the FIRSTBORN OF OUR SONS and our cattle, AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE LAW.
Micah 6:7
Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body, for the sin of my soul?
Legend of the Jews 1&2
pg 313 by Ginsburg
"YHWH has a habit of choosing a favorite member of our family as a SACRIFICE unto himself
2 Kings 3:27
So he took his firstborn son... and offered him.... as a burnt offering.
Numbers 31:40
And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which YHWH's tribute was thirty and two persons (Midianite virgins)
31:41
And Moses gave tribute, which was YHWH'S HEAVE OFFERING, unto Eleazar the priest as an offering for YHWH, as YHWH commanded Moses.
CANNIBALISM
Deuteronomy 28:53
And thou eat the FRUIT of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons, and of thy daughters.
Deuteronomy 28:57
Her children which she shall bear, for she shall eat them.
Leviticus 26:29
And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall you eat
Jeremiah 19:9
And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters.
I Baruch 2:3-4
As it came to pass in Jerusalem, according to the things that are WRITTEN IN THE LAW of Moses. That we should eat-every man- the flesh of his own son, and every man the flesh of his own daughter.
GOLD TREASURE
Joshua 6:19
But all the silver and gold... are holy to YHWH; they shall go into the treasury
Nahum 2:9
Plunder the silver and gold
Numbers 31:50
An oblation for YHWH... jewels... gold
Joshua 6:24
.. only the silver, and the gold... put into the treasury of YHWH
Are you saying YHVH is a Bottom?
@@lysanamcmillan7972 he's a fire-breathing dragon
Secrets of the serpent: In search of the sacred past. By Philip Gardiner pg 78
"On 1st century AD medallions which show JEHOVAH AS A SERPENT."
Secret Doctrine vol 1 by Blavatsky pg 73
"Jehovah's name in Hebrew should be one Ehad... JEHOVAH esoterically (as elohim) is also the SERPENT OR DRAGON."
Secret Doctrine vol 2 by Blavatsky pg 246
"The SERPENT to the (Yod) the poetical ideograph of JEHOVAH in the Kabalah"
The Books of Enoch: The complete set by Dr Edward Hammond pg 68 (book of dreams)
"His face was terrifying...then I saw the LORD standing before them, and his face was terrible. When they all saw him, they were frightened at his appearance. All of them were afraid and trembled.... 'we are unable to stand in our LORD'S presence, or look at him"
The Other Bible by William Barnstone pg 495-500 (second book of Enoch/ Book of Secrets)
"The Archangel Michael led Enoch before God's face, thus I saw the LORD'S face, but the LORD'S face is... awful, and very terrible"
Exodus 33:20 Thou (Moses) canst not see my face.
33:22 ...and I will cover thee with my hand hand while I pass
33:23 I will take away mine hand, and thou shall see my back parts, but my face shall not be seen.
FIRE-BREATHING DRAGON
Leviticus 9:24 and there came a FIRE out from before YHWH... when the people saw it...
Numbers 11:1 .. and the FIRE of YHWH burnt among them and consumed them...
Leviticus 10:2... and there went out a FIRE from YHWH, and devoured them...
Numbers 16:35 ...and there went out a FIRE from YHWH, and consumed the ... men
Psalms 18:8 there went up smoke out of his nostrils, and FIRE out of his mouth
II Samuel 22:9 there went up smoke out of his nostrils, and FIRE out of his mouth devoured
Ezekiel 21:31 I will blow against thee, in the wrath of my fire.
Psalms 97:3 a fire goeth before him and burneth up his enemies.
Joel 2:3 a fire devoureth before the them...
Zephaniah 1:18 the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy.
Isaiah 11:15 YHWH will utterly destroy... with his scorching breath.
Psalms 29:7 the voice of YHWH flashes forth flames of fire.
Job 41:21 a flame goeth out of his mouth.
DRAGON WINGS
Psalms 91:41 under his WINGS you may seek refuge
Psalms 36:7 take refuge in the shadow of your WINGS
Psalms 61.4 in the shelter of your WINGS
Deuteronomy 32:11 he spread his WINGS and caught them
Jeremiah 49:22 swoop like an eagle and spread out his WINGS
HUMAN SACRIFICE
Exodus 22:29-30
Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe produce and of thy liquors. The firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me. Likewise shalt thou do with thine oxen and with thy sheep: seven days it shall be with it's dam; on the eighth day thou shalt give it to me.
Leviticus 2:13
Every oblation of thy MEAT OFFERING thou shalt season with salt.
Leviticus 2:14
a MEAT OFFERING of thy FIRSTFRUITS unto YHWH thou shalt offer
Leviticus 2:1
And when any will offer a MEAT OFFERING unto YHWH, his offering shall be of fine flour, he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon.
Leviticus 6:21
In a pan it shall be made with oil; and when it is baken, thou shalt bring it in: and the baken pieces of meat offering shalt thou offer for a sweet savour unto YHWH
Leviticus 1:9
A food offering with a pleasing aroma to YHWH
Nehemiah 10:35-36
And we made ordinances to bring the FIRSTFRUITS... to the house of YHWH. To bring the FIRSTBORN OF OUR SONS and our cattle, AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE LAW.
Micah 6:7
Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body, for the sin of my soul?
Legend of the Jews 1&2
pg 313 by Ginsburg
"YHWH has a habit of choosing a favorite member of our family as a SACRIFICE unto himself
2 Kings 3:27
So he took his firstborn son... and offered him.... as a burnt offering.
Numbers 31:40
And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which YHWH's tribute was thirty and two persons (Midianite virgins)
31:41
And Moses gave tribute, which was YHWH'S HEAVE OFFERING, unto Eleazar the priest as an offering for YHWH, as YHWH commanded Moses.
CANNIBALISM
Deuteronomy 28:53
And thou eat the FRUIT of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons, and of thy daughters.
Deuteronomy 28:57
Her children which she shall bear, for she shall eat them.
Leviticus 26:29
And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall you eat
Jeremiah 19:9
And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters.
I Baruch 2:3-4
As it came to pass in Jerusalem, according to the things that are WRITTEN IN THE LAW of Moses. That we should eat-every man- the flesh of his own son, and every man the flesh of his own daughter.
GOLD TREASURE
Joshua 6:19
But all the silver and gold... are holy to YHWH; they shall go into the treasury
Nahum 2:9
Plunder the silver and gold
Numbers 31:50
An oblation for YHWH... jewels... gold
Joshua 6:24
.. only the silver, and the gold... put into the treasury of YHWH
@@lysanamcmillan7972 there’s a fun story about how during the first millennia BC, individual Jews would sometimes move out of Israel and settle somewhere else around the Mediterranean. There was a large community in Alexandria in the first century BC, and apparently some of them were putting on plays about the Exodus.
The story of the exodus is highly offensive to the Egyptians, of course. So they got revenge by pointing out all the parallels between their demon god Seth and the Jewish god.
Seth has the head of a donkey, so the Egyptians would claim Yahweh had the head of a donkey. And when the Jews would be like “nuh-uh” the Egyptians would respond “ok fine, show us what Yahweh looks like.” Of course, Judaism prohibits that. So they couldn’t prove the Egyptians wrong.
I’ve heard a theory that this practice of tying Yahweh to Seth may have contributed to the development of Gnosticism.
It might explain why most of the surviving Gnostic manuscripts are in Coptic.
Secrets of the serpent: In search of the sacred past. By Philip Gardiner pg 78
"On 1st century AD medallions which show JEHOVAH AS A SERPENT."
Secret Doctrine vol 1 by Blavatsky pg 73
"Jehovah's name in Hebrew should be one Ehad... JEHOVAH esoterically (as elohim) is also the SERPENT OR DRAGON."
Secret Doctrine vol 2 by Blavatsky pg 246
"The SERPENT to the (Yod) the poetical ideograph of JEHOVAH in the Kabalah"
The Books of Enoch: The complete set by Dr Edward Hammond pg 68 (book of dreams)
"His face was terrifying...then I saw the LORD standing before them, and his face was terrible. When they all saw him, they were frightened at his appearance. All of them were afraid and trembled.... 'we are unable to stand in our LORD'S presence, or look at him"
The Other Bible by William Barnstone pg 495-500 (second book of Enoch/ Book of Secrets)
"The Archangel Michael led Enoch before God's face, thus I saw the LORD'S face, but the LORD'S face is... awful, and very terrible"
Exodus 33:20 Thou (Moses) canst not see my face.
33:22 ...and I will cover thee with my hand hand while I pass
33:23 I will take away mine hand, and thou shall see my back parts, but my face shall not be seen.
FIRE-BREATHING DRAGON
Leviticus 9:24 and there came a FIRE out from before YHWH... when the people saw it...
Numbers 11:1 .. and the FIRE of YHWH burnt among them and consumed them...
Leviticus 10:2... and there went out a FIRE from YHWH, and devoured them...
Numbers 16:35 ...and there went out a FIRE from YHWH, and consumed the ... men
Psalms 18:8 there went up smoke out of his nostrils, and FIRE out of his mouth
II Samuel 22:9 there went up smoke out of his nostrils, and FIRE out of his mouth devoured
Ezekiel 21:31 I will blow against thee, in the wrath of my fire.
Psalms 97:3 a fire goeth before him and burneth up his enemies.
Joel 2:3 a fire devoureth before the them...
Zephaniah 1:18 the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy.
Isaiah 11:15 YHWH will utterly destroy... with his scorching breath.
Psalms 29:7 the voice of YHWH flashes forth flames of fire.
Job 41:21 a flame goeth out of his mouth.
DRAGON WINGS
Psalms 91:41 under his WINGS you may seek refuge
Psalms 36:7 take refuge in the shadow of your WINGS
Psalms 61.4 in the shelter of your WINGS
Deuteronomy 32:11 he spread his WINGS and caught them
Jeremiah 49:22 swoop like an eagle and spread out his WINGS
HUMAN SACRIFICE
Exodus 22:29-30
Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe produce and of thy liquors. The firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me. Likewise shalt thou do with thine oxen and with thy sheep: seven days it shall be with it's dam; on the eighth day thou shalt give it to me.
Leviticus 2:13
Every oblation of thy MEAT OFFERING thou shalt season with salt.
Leviticus 2:14
a MEAT OFFERING of thy FIRSTFRUITS unto YHWH thou shalt offer
Leviticus 2:1
And when any will offer a MEAT OFFERING unto YHWH, his offering shall be of fine flour, he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon.
Leviticus 6:21
In a pan it shall be made with oil; and when it is baken, thou shalt bring it in: and the baken pieces of meat offering shalt thou offer for a sweet savour unto YHWH
Leviticus 1:9
A food offering with a pleasing aroma to YHWH
Nehemiah 10:35-36
And we made ordinances to bring the FIRSTFRUITS... to the house of YHWH. To bring the FIRSTBORN OF OUR SONS and our cattle, AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE LAW.
Micah 6:7
Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body, for the sin of my soul?
Legend of the Jews 1&2
pg 313 by Ginsburg
"YHWH has a habit of choosing a favorite member of our family as a SACRIFICE unto himself
2 Kings 3:27
So he took his firstborn son... and offered him.... as a burnt offering.
Numbers 31:40
And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which YHWH's tribute was thirty and two persons (Midianite virgins)
31:41
And Moses gave tribute, which was YHWH'S HEAVE OFFERING, unto Eleazar the priest as an offering for YHWH, as YHWH commanded Moses.
CANNIBALISM
Deuteronomy 28:53
And thou eat the FRUIT of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons, and of thy daughters.
Deuteronomy 28:57
Her children which she shall bear, for she shall eat them.
Leviticus 26:29
And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall you eat
Jeremiah 19:9
And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters.
I Baruch 2:3-4
As it came to pass in Jerusalem, according to the things that are WRITTEN IN THE LAW of Moses. That we should eat-every man- the flesh of his own son, and every man the flesh of his own daughter.
GOLD TREASURE
Joshua 6:19
But all the silver and gold... are holy to YHWH; they shall go into the treasury
Nahum 2:9
Plunder the silver and gold
Numbers 31:50
An oblation for YHWH... jewels... gold
Joshua 6:24
.. only the silver, and the gold... put into the treasury of YHWH
Imagine reading a book that promotes slavery, homophobia and genocide, but thinking "they *actually saw god* and didn't die" is the part that's "theologically problematic."
I agree .
the Quran is really deplorable literature.
Does it make you feel better to pretend I wasn't talking about the Bible,@@TheFabulousSnowflake? Does it help stop you melting?
Of course the Bible has been changed, it was written and inspired by man!
One of the issues that I have with the whole concept of "Divine Inspiration for the Bible" is WHERE exactly is the Divine?
Is it in the original Authors? Is it in whoever Collected the writings, because many of the "Books" of the Bible are clearly written by multiple Authors (were all of them "Inspired")? Is it in the Editors, Dan talks about in this video? Is it in those who Compiled the various book into the text(s) we today call "The Bible"?
Or, could it possibly be in the recognition, by the hearers and readers who collectively recognised such texts as, somehow, "Inspired"?
Every word in the Torah was dictated to Moses by God Himself.
@@hrvatskinoahid1048 Does that include the verses in Deuteronomy where Moses dies, is burried and his burial place is forgotten?
@@michaelodonnell824 Rashi explains the verses fine.
Small question. When was the bible “finished?” Nicaea? Is everything else just a translation?
"When was the bible “finished?”
Which Bible? The one with 73 books in it? Or the one with only 66 books? Or the Eastern Orthodox Bible which has 81 books?
Rem acu tetigisti
*The “original” Bible*
This is the kind of thing I ask of people when they talk about “the original Bible,” or the “Bible before it was corrupted.”
And what if an author rewrote his scroll before disseminating it to anyone? Which is the original, “uncorrupted” version?
❤❤❤
The whole concept of angels resembles that of lesser gods and demigods in what Christians refer to as "pagan religions."
They're nonphysical beings with powers either of their own, or imbued by God.
They're very physical.
ANGELS/MESSENGERS (Serpents/dragons)
Judges 13:3 a man of god came unto me, and his countenance was like the countenance of an ANGEL of God, very terrible.
III Maccabees 6:18 From which two messengers, dreadful of form, came down..
Revelation of Zephaniah 6:8 I saw a great messenger... his teeth were outside of his mouth, like a bear... his body was like the serpents...
The Genius of the Few - by Christian O'Brien
pg 136 "Old Testament, the Hebraic term which is translated into English as 'angel' is mal'ak meaning 'a messenger' But an earlier expression for 'the angels' was 'ha'neshek' meaning 'the serpent'
pg 135,137 "the seniors were termed two-faced serpents" (arch angels) "The juniors were termed one-face serpents" (angels)
Books of Enoch the Prophet by RH Charles
pg 17 "Gabriel, one of the holy angels, is over paradise, and the serpents and the cherubim"
The Books of Enoch by Dr Edward Hammond
(2 Enoch, Slavonic secrets of Enoch)
pg 112 "I saw...guards... standing like serpents... and their teeth were sharp"
pg 16 "whenever they wished to, they assumed the like that of the sons of men"
The complete dead sea scrolls in English
(Testament of Amram)
pg 535 "I raised my eyes and saw one of them, his looks were frightening (like those of a vi)per, ..his appearance was like that of an adder."
The Legend of the Jews 1&2 by Louis Ginzberg
45 "Satan, the greatest of the ANGELS in heaven.
50 "the serpent was notable... like man he stood upright on two feet, and in height was equal to the camel"
51 "he approached the woman, knowing that women are beguiled easily"
54 "thou didst seek to cause the death of Adam, in order to espouse his wife"
62 "but the cunning accursed serpent (Satan) seduced me with the tree of desire and lusts, yea, he seduced the wife of my bosom"
71 "when god bestowed paradise upon the first pair of mankind, he warned them particularly against carnal intercourse with each other. But after the fall of Eve, Satan, in the guise of a serpent approached her, and the fruit of their union was Cain, the ancestor of all the impious generations... Cain's descent from Satan, who is the ANGEL Samael, was revealed in his Seraphic appearance. At his birth, the exclamation was wrung from Eve 'I have gotten a man through an ANGEL of the LORD'"
Genesis 4.1 and she conceived and bare Cain, and said I have gotten a man from the LORD
1 John 3:12 Cain, who was of that wicked one.
Nag Hammadi Scriptures (Gospel of Philip)
91 "and he was begotten in adultery, for he was the child of a serpent" (Eve's "LORD")
(Secret Book of John)
107 "He entered and beguiled Eve"
126 "The serpent instructed them to eat of the wickedness of sexual desire"
(Apocalypse of Adam)
82 "Then the GOD WHO CREATED US, created a son from himself and Eve."
(On the Origin of the World)
71 "they knew that they were naked, with regard to knowledge ... when they saw their MAKERS, they loathed them, since they were BEASTLY FORMS. They understood very much"
Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked.
Legends of the Jews 1&2
pg 53 "Adam slandered God, and uttered blasphemous against him"
Dragons and Dragon Lore by Ernest Ingersoll
158 "Grendel this monster grim was called... kin of Cain... of Cain woke that woeful race"
Books of Enoch
pg 126 "Sopanima was childless, for she was barren... yet she conceived, but Nir had... had not lain with her"
("Immaculate conception"🙄)
127 "the baby came from the dead Sopanima... Noah and Nir looked upon him, and saw that a seal of priesthood was on it's chest and it had an appearance of glory... 'behold, the LORD renews consecration along our bloodline, as is the desire of the Lord... they bestowed the... name Melchizedek.. Noah said... guard this child in secret... for men... will put him to death"
129-130 "the lord said to Michael... go down to earth, to Nir, and take MY CHILD who is with him, and set him in the garden of Eden to guard him... Melchizedek will be chief of priests.... and in 1070 years (Abraham) will find another Melchizedek... he will be priest and the first king in a town of (Jeru)Salem, after the fashion of this Melchizedek"
MOSES
Douay Rheims Bible Exodus
34:29 When Moses came down from the Mount Sinai... he knew not that HIS FACE WAS HORNED...
34:30 ... the children of Israel, seeing the FACE OF MOSES HORNED, were afraid to come near
34:33 He put a veil on his face
34:35 And they saw that the face of Moses when he came out WAS HORNED, but he covered his face again, if at any time he spoke to them.
The Book of Legends Sefer Ha-Aggadah
Pg. 64 "When Moses and Aaron stationed themselves in Pharaoh's presence, all the kings saw that the two seemed like ministering angels... their mouths, like a flame of fire. Seeing that, the fear of the two fell upon all of the kings"
Legend of the Jews 1&2
Pg. 480 "The burning bush appeared to Moses alone...THE COUNTENANCE OF MOSES DISTORTED"
Pg. 499 Within the Palace, Moses and Aaron...
The two men RESEMBLED ANGELS... their mouths emitted flames, when they opened them... his voice heweth out flames of fire"
Books of Enoch
Pg. 69 "Then... (Moses) talking with him, the other (Isrealites) went to those which had gone astray and began to kill them. They were AFRAID BECAUSE OF HIS APPEARANCE
JEHOVAH/YAHWEH/YHWH
Secrets of the serpent: In search of the sacred past. By Philip Gardiner pg 78
"On 1st century AD medallions which show JEHOVAH AS A SERPENT."
Secret Doctrine vol 1 by Blavatsky pg 73
"Jehovah's name in Hebrew should be one Ehad... JEHOVAH esoterically (as elohim) is also the SERPENT OR DRAGON."
Secret Doctrine vol 2 by Blavatsky pg 246
"The SERPENT to the (Yod) the poetical ideograph of JEHOVAH in the Kabalah"
The Books of Enoch: The complete set by Dr Edward Hammond pg 68 (book of dreams)
"His face was terrifying...then I saw the LORD standing before them, and his face was terrible. When they all saw him, they were frightened at his appearance. All of them were afraid and trembled.... 'we are unable to stand in our LORD'S presence, or look at him"
The Other Bible by William Barnstone pg 495-500 (second book of Enoch/ Book of Secrets)
"The Archangel Michael led Enoch before God's face, thus I saw the LORD'S face, but the LORD'S face is... awful, and very terrible"
Exodus 33:20 Thou canst not see my face.
33:22 .. I will cover thee with my hand
33:23 I will take away mine hand, and thou shall see my back parts, but my face shall not be seen.
FIRE-BREATHING DRAGON
Leviticus 9:24 and there came a FIRE out from before YHWH... when the people saw it...
Numbers 11:1 .. and the FIRE of YHWH burnt among them and consumed them...
Leviticus 10:2... and there went out a FIRE from YHWH, and devoured them...
Numbers 16:35 ...and there went out a FIRE from YHWH, and consumed the ... men
Psalms 18:8 there went up smoke out of his nostrils, and FIRE out of his mouth
II Samuel 22:9 there went up smoke out of his nostrils, and FIRE out of his mouth devoured
Ezekiel 21:31 I will blow against thee, in the wrath of my fire.
Psalms 97:3 a fire goeth before him and burneth up his enemies.
Joel 2:3 a fire devoureth before the them...
Zephaniah 1:18 the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy.
Psalms 29:7 the voice of YHWH flashes forth flames of fire.
Job 41:21 a flame goeth out of his mouth.
DRAGON WINGS
Deuteronomy 32:11 he spread his WINGS and caught them
But the problem lies not where you think.
Let’s go back in time to the year 850 BCE. There is a growing devotion to Y-H in the land of Isra’el but this devotion is at the top of society and there are gobs of polytheist sites. People are practicing whatever and it’s largely ok with everybody else. If Joe over in the corner is seeing pink dragons at the alter to Anubis, hey that’s just Joe taking a trip.
We get into the late 7th century and people do worry about the visions of the high priests of the prophets, but still the high priest is the mouthpiece of god and the king is his arms. But then that system vanishes and the power to speak god comes from the prophets like Ezekiel
Now I have said this before, Ezekiel is not a text for children, while these innuendoes of adult sex themes permeate the Bible, it’s a problem here in America because we are such sexual prudes. But the text of Ezekiel presents a number of problems from a mystical perspective and must be interpreted very cautiously.
So what kinds of problems does it create and for whom does it create.
The problem it creates is that Ezekiel describes a process of seeing god, his throne and gods chariot. In fact he is not just envisioning god’s throne he is seeing aspects of Mesopotamian belief, throne rooms in heaven, tears of Tammuz. Ezekiel does not tell you that or how the magick of lower Mesopotamian culture is influencing him but any reasonable mystic can see that it is.
And so after Ezekiel two forms of Jewish mysticism develop, Hekhalot and Merkavah mysticism in which the divine seeker has several magical landmarks. And we know people are doing this because stories about it are popping up in the Apocrypha and the Talmud.
And so, the key developing problem in that having returned to Jerusalem they are now in the domain of desert sages that travel between Arabia and the Dead Sea which later become the desert mystics.
Here is the problem, only the magick of the temple allows the high priest to commune with god (interpret that as you like). But Ezekiel’s mysticism allows anyone who puts in the effort can see god. When the temple was not around, this was not a big problem. Once the high priesthood is restored to the temple it is a problem because it undermines their authority of the Sanhedrin, And the text of the scrolls are being written by the scribes within the temple building itself.
And these threats appear to grow as the Bible is being written, because Jerusalem is becoming a crossroads for an empire that stretches over three continents. We know for instance there was an elephantine cult of Yahweh, but there were also desert cults and then there are the mysterious Y-H followers in Yathrib. In the time of 2nd century BCE some of these distal groups merged with Christian thought to form “Gnosticism”.
So why is it a problem,
What if I imagine Y-H to be a woman
What if I imagine the god to be a giant sword telling me to defeat all the Greeks
What if I imagine the god to be naked, telling me to start a nudist colony on the temple mound.
So then the high priest can say you did not see god you saw one of his messengers, or alternatively one of the Shaddayim or the Beliel gods. Most likely, in order to maintain their authority the visions of any sage will be delegated to visions of wicked beings.
That's Jesus
Jesus was a person, not an angel.
Another bad take. The septuagint is older than the masoretic text. You cannot argue that scribes added "angel" to the text, when the oldest text we have included the word angel, and the masoretic text, which doesn't include it, is somehow the more accurate or at least the closest to the original version.
The original text is to this day in all Torah scrolls.
@@hrvatskinoahid1048 thank you for stating the obvious. Doesn't change what I said. Septuagint is a direct translation of the Torah from Hebrew to Greek, and it's older than the Masoretic text. It's always been "angel of the Lord." To suggest it was added later as if it had always been omitted is nonsense.
@@cman04 You do not understand my comment. The Masoretic text is not original.
@@hrvatskinoahid1048 then we are saying the same thing. The OP is claiming that the word "angel" was added by the septuagint and other text, but you don't find it in the masoretic text, which he seems to believe is more accurate. It makes no sense.
You still can't explain why unrelated groups of manuscripts don't preserve the tradition of the Angel of the Lord in certain passages. We know very well that the Septuagint (and Second Temple Manuscripts) often adds or substitutes words for angel or distances the figure of God from that of humans
When you say "finished", when exactly did that happen?
I think that was sloppily worded by Dan, as the fact remains that the texts are STILL being rewritten, so-to-speak, as we still breathe.
Consider that angel is an “ angle “ of light aka a “ photon”. We are the light of the world, Jesus is the light of the world, The I am is the light of the world ( photon). Light comes from the Sun( Son ) of the Father to give life.
And with that in mind, I believe that these are OT Christophanies of YESHUA (Jesus) the Son before He came in the flesh, including the Ram in the Bush and on Mt. Sinai. John 1:18 says, "No man hath seen God at any time", and Colossians 1:15 says, "He is the image of the invisible God." John 1:1-2 says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God." Understanding the Word ELOHIM is so important in these instances. Shalom
You really ought to mention this is a theory and not at all a fact. Hope InspiringPhilosophy does a video on this soon
Yep, since the entire Bible is myth and not fact.
@@Ex_christian Oh the entire Bible? So Pontius Pilate didn’t exist? Herod didn’t exist? Caiaphas? Luke, Mark, Paul, Peter, John etc didn’t exist and are myths? Or do you mean events? Like the crucifixion of Jesus which many Scholars agree happened? Or His baptism by John the Baptist which many Scholars also agree happened? Maybe you’re talking about the Maccabees and the rebellion against the Seleucid Dynasty? Or maybe, just maybe you’re referring to the miracles that you refuse to believe happened.
@@Ex_christian So somehow, you have all these things the Bible accurately recorded yet you refuse to believe it because of God and His miracles.
@@dyad2285 and yet there is ZERO Demonstrable Evidence to back up what you said! The Bible is Myth! And make believe sly daddies!
You cannot directly see God because He radiates glory. When sinners see glory such as Daniel, John or the Roman soldiers at the tomb, they collapse. Moses captured some of that glory on his face and that is why he had to cover his face. In life, if I come too close to a bushfire, the radiant heat will kill me. Can you give a witness to where Hebrew scholars added "an angel" or is this just a claim you made up out of your head?
he literally explains it. the older texts say it was the lord, newer texts say an angel of the lord. its pretty simple to understand
God does not have a body or any form.
@@cloakedsquid No specifics are given. The Hebrew is the original.
Traditional Jewish sources mention scribal emendations. We are talking about very slight alterations.
But if it's the perfect and inerrant Word of God then there should be NO alterations whatsoever.
Question, isn't this Angel identified as Jesus? And would just continue to prove that Jesus is in fact God since that's what the Angel claims? I think it was in your video with a passage from Jude that you agreed said that is Jesus
The angel has a God and is a distinct being. Jesus also never identified himself as an angel. In fact Hebrews refutes the claim Jesus as an angel. Jesus also has a God above him
Identified by whom? There WAS no Jesus in the old testament stories
@@leom6343 I agree, but in Dan's video "Does the epistle of Jude say that Jesus is God" from 3-4 weeks ago, he acknowledges the claim that Jesus is the Angel of the Lord and that that's probably what Jude meant.
A post hoc invention of Greco-Roman Christian converts who knew little of the Hebrew Bible, but inserted their own “pagan” frameworks onto the superstructure of the texts.
@@Zypher. Jesus and the angel of the Lord still have a God above them. The angel of the Lord is just a messenger. Like a Phone, where you can send messages and the letter of Jude is just a small letter. Nowhere in the gospels it says Jesus is the angel of the Lord. In fact the angel comes to Mary and is identified as Gabriel.
It really doesn't matter if it was God or the angel of God that appeared to Moses.
If that's the case, it really doesn't matter what they said to Moses then.
@@alanb8884 how so? Anything said to Moses would either be God Himself or the angel of God. The angel of God can only ack/ speak with the authority of God. So even if it was an angel it would have only happened with God's permission
@@gabbygood6813you have many unstated assumptions, it’s impossible to even know where to start to critique your statement.
I suspect you haven’t read scholarly material.
The whole concept of angels resembles that of lesser gods and demigods in what Christians refer to as "pagan religions."
They're nonphysical beings with powers either of their own, or imbued by God.
@@benjamintrevino325 all power come from our Father. Alone we can do nothing
Maybe the ancients regarded this "angel" or messenger of the lord to be some kind of messaging system, like it's a functionary relaying messages in and out of the mortal realm and the divine realm, like a telephone.
If so, then passages like exodus 3, where it's the messenger of Yhwh in the first instance, but it's yhwh himself for the rest of the conversation makes more sense. Consider the following analogy:
The telephone rang (messenger attracted my attention), I answered and a voice from the telephone (messenger) told me to take off my shoes. I asked who was speaking and the voice came back with a chuckle saying "I will be what I am, I'm the god of your forefathers". A brief conversation followed, where the god told me what he wanted me to do.
That was a later development. There was much more communion between the divine realms and mortal realms in the past. It wasn’t as big of a deal as people make it now.
@@hardwork8395 Josephus and Philo say the angel is not God. Josephus even identified him as Gabriel
I agree. That's why he is called messenger. God uses him as an Instrument.
@@leom6343 both of those people you cited are thoroughly Hellenized Jewish thinkers who fit into the stereotypical trend exemplifying my point, to the T.
Earlier texts and thinkers, it is clear, did not think that way, as a rule. Those more ancient tended to be much closer to divine contact.
@@hardwork8395 hellenised Jews were more prone to be polytheistic but not even they believed the angel of the Lord is God himself. I agree that Jews were also polytheistic, but in the first century it mostly ended. Jesus for sure wouldn't have believed it.
And in my opinion, its clear in the bible itself that the angel of God and God are distinct beings where one is the God of the other.
Even in your video, you have to say this "most likely happened" because you can't prove it. You can show different manuscripts saying different things but so what? That has been one of my issues with the dead sea scrolls and translations based on them, and it is a big reason I am KJV only. When I say that, I mean either the 1611 Edition with old English or the Authorized Version. I fully trust the translators got it right.
So, you admit to being purposefully ignorant? That's cute. BTW - King James was a well known bisexual.
mote, meet beam.
@@pamelai2581 King James simply authorized the Bible be created. His personal life has no bearing on anything. I consider you personally ignorant as you just accept the ignorant teachings of people that admit they can't prove their claims.
@@johnmcgimpsey1825 That only applies to finding fault in fellow Christians.
@@jbutero1 The vast majority of Christians do not consider the KJV authoritative, and you criticize a lack of proof with a statement that is similarly not subject to being proven.
I think the bulk of gen-2kings was originally greek and no older than the original LXX. This is why it consists of dramatic narrative typical of greek literature, but absent from the prophets. Greek fingerprints include depictions of corporeal gods with anthropomorphic features to the twink-on-twink action of the David and Jonathan romance. Close inspection of certain passages, like when YHVH tries to kill Moses, show a sloppy back-translation from greek to Hebrew, where the text makes more sense in greek.