Searching for the best B&W film stock - Part Two
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- The first 1000 people to click the link will get a free trial of Skillshare's Premium Membership: skl.sh/kylemcd...
Part two of my search for my favourite black and white film stock. In this video, I’m testing out Kodak TRI-X 400, Ilford Delta 400, and Rollei Superpan 200.
Film developed and scanned by Carmencita Film Lab: carmencitafilm...
►*DISCLAIMER*
Some of the links below are affiliate links, where I earn a small commission if you click on the link and purchase an item. The money I earn helps me make this type of content consistently.
GEAR USED IN THIS VIDEO(*these are affiliate links):
Pentax 67ii: ebay.us/ixwYvo
Pentax 67 105 f2.4: ebay.us/CSIAgT
Pentax 67 75mm f2.8: ebay.us/q96ZQC
Kodak Tri-X 400: ebay.us/GGES2E
Ilford Delta 400: ebay.us/IVu1zG
Rollei Superpan 200: ebay.us/80q7ws
My '35mm Film Photography Course' on Skillshare (FREE with this link): skl.sh/2JrGhFs
Videos on this channel are filmed using the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K: bhpho.to/2SWPBqO
And the Fuji X-T4: bhpho.to/3n91yYk
My go-to for music (FREE Trial with this link): bit.ly/35aQELa
►GEAR(*these are affiliate links):
My go-to medium format camera: ebay.us/GaK9Kp
My FAVOURITE medium format lens: ebay.us/m5PTvK
My favourite 35mm film camera: ebay.us/82WyVI
My favourite 35mm film lens: ebay.us/u0V817
The BEST medium format travel camera: ebay.us/FVcfWk
The film scanner that I use for my work: ebay.us/RwKM4c
Best entry-level film scanner: ebay.us/Qp3ZEz
The film camera that started it all for me: ebay.us/qewXkD
My go-to light meter: ebay.us/QIFXF0
My favourite film stock: ebay.us/orbudp
My favourite 645 medium format film camera: ebay.us/ydY4HK
Awesome strap for large cameras: ebay.us/pY8mV2
Rope style strap for smaller cameras (cheap but great!): amzn.to/33hrRDO
Camera I use to film my videos: bhpho.to/3gY9yak
Camera that I use for vlogging: bhpho.to/3n91yYk
The gear I use for RUclips: bit.ly/3j5vd1L
My favourite film cameras: bit.ly/3hm6MN6
Essential film photography accessories: bit.ly/34o3Uvt
→Instagram: bit.ly/2GuYV21
→Website: kmcdougall.com
→Podcast:
..................................
DISCLAIMER
Some of the links above are affiliate links, where I earn a small commission if you click on the link and purchase an item. The money I earn helps me make this type of content consistently.
After mentioning in the video that I'm going to stick with lab development for now... I then went ahead and ordered chemicals to develop at home. 😂 Don't listen to me.
It's for the best. Developing your own B&W just allows you so much more control over the entire imaging process, and you can use different developers/regimens which are optimal for different stocks, whereas a lab will tend to use only one middle of the road solution for everything (typically XTOL these days). Depending on which developer you use it can also save you a lot of money over the long run. Personally I tend to favour either DD-X or Pyrocat-HD; the latter is particularly good with Acros or T-Max films.
Well then, we'll be looking forward to your new series "testing 10 different developers on my favorite films to find out which one I like the most", and the follow up to that "trying different dilutions of my favorite developer to find out which I like best". Sounds like content for the next year or so. ;>
Awesome! I would just make sure you are using a dev intended for t-grain w/ t-max or Delta (xtol or dd-x. Xtol being the far cheaper of the two options). For cubic grain you can use just about anything. Hc-110 looks lovely. If you want better highlight control with more shadow detail you can dilute it down and agitate less. Rodinal is extremely sharp looking so based on your preferences probably not something you would personally like.
Have fun!
haha - sometimes the heart wins over the head :)
can recommend D76 and also Rodinal for Tri-x but the developer I've fallen in love with is Mörsch "Finol" (from a German Darkroom - Genius) - you just can't blow out the highlights with this and it's so easy to use
nearly all my bw pictures are with this combination (Tri-x at 250)
Nice! Don't forget that determining your own exposure index (E.I.) is a basic step in dialing in a new film. Exposure and development are merely two steps in one process: image formation.
New drinking game. Do a shot every time Kyle says “moving forward”.
or "i couldn't agree more" on the podcast :))
thats going to be the name of his new "zine"
Bro I had to get my stomach pumped bcuz of this comment.
I really like how Tri-X looks with Rodinal developer. If you do decide to do home development, I would recommend. Rodinal 1+100 semi-stand for 1 hour. The long slow cook really brings out the shadows and the minimal amount of developer eventually exhausts and doesn't blow out the highlights. Yet it has a punchy look. You don't need to be exact with the temperature just keep it near but under 20c or 68f. Give it a normal agitation at the half hour mark to keep the chemistry from settling.
Cool. Thanks for the suggestion.
Are you planning to try out Fomapan? Or is the price/quality ratio worse than over here in Europe. Might not be the most professional stock but still interesting
Foma films are mostly useful for testing whether a camera works or not, to be honest. At least here in Europe where they are super cheap. If they were much more expensive there would be little reason to use them.
@@heinerl.beisert5508 My point is mostly that it is too much of a pain to get good results with them when you can spend an additional 3€ to get a much more workable film
@@heinerl.beisert5508 I read no rude intent from your comment and had no such intent myself.
So interesting to see people discovering and testing these films. When TMax was released I was shooting and developing a couple dozen rolls of Tri-X per week as a sports photographer. We all HATED TMax. Primarily because we were shooting 400 speeds at night and often pushing them to 1600 or so. And TMax just went black in the shadows. I shot some on a vacation to San Francisco and liked it a little better in daylight. But it's been reformulated since then. I've got a 3 year old roll of 120 in the new formulation I need to shoot soon.
Enjoy your journey!
The allure with Superpan is that it is a film that can produce gorgeous B&W slides with reversal process. I LOVE Tri X. That is what I started 35 mm photography back in the day. Used to develop it and print it myself.
This test is useless, tri-X developed in lab chemicals will be a completely different look than developed at home, even tri-X developed in different dilutions of d-76 will look completely different. the Lab most likely uses T-Max or ilford ddx developers which are made for modern tabular grain films and will give a clean detailed, balanced look with those. But with home development and a developer like rodinal or D-76, you can make films like tri-x or HP5 look any way you like..
It would be interesting to know what chemistry the lab used. Otherwise one might be pretty confused with the results after changing the lab, or even if the lab decides to change the chemistry...
not to mention if the lab was dip and dunk vs. hand lab. I gave up on D+D and since the hand lab has given up, i've given up:) (on film)...
You should also try Rollei RPX 400. It’s a new emulsion based on the old Agfa APX 400 formula. It’s a classic black and white film like Tri-X or HP5+ but with a softer curve.
Tri-X is just great, has a nice look. It's just that for me the negatives always get really bowed while drying after developing which drives me crazy. Never happens with HP5, so I'm just using that and pushing or adding a bit more contrast in post.
Couldn’t agree more.
let hot water run in the shower and hang it in there to dry, it will help to dry it flat. The japanese found out long ago that film dries flat in the humid summers and curls in the dry winter :)
As soon as it's touch dry, so not sticky but not crispy, roll it emulsion out in another reel - dries flat. Works every time!
Just started my B&W journey with Ilford HP5 and I’m absolutely in love with it.
Definitely a nice film. Haven’t shot it in 120 yet but hopefully soon.
Tri-X is definitely my favourite B&W film.
It is so beautiful isn’t it
B&W material is a science in itself. It's not just the films. It's also what developer you choose, how much you dilute it, how long you develop it, what temperature the fluids have, how you agitate the film while developing. Ilford films react very much on these variables and can produce totally different results based on this. Kodak not so much, but still very apparent.
When you decide for a film, you need to test how to develop it to enhance the properties you like the most. Developing B&W film is not only technically very simple, it is a major tool in determining the outcome of your photography. You shouldn't give that to a lab. It's like you would, in the digital world, have "developing" a raw file being done by someone else than yourself.
Hmmmmm............Henry Cartier Bresson used only Tri-X sense it came out in 1940. He shot almost everything at1/125 and only adjusted the aperture. He was an absolute master. Lesson learned
Ilford FP4 is a classic you should definitely also check out Kyle.
On the list!
And try Ilford FP4+ with an X-1 green filter for superb skin tones!
@@The-Travel-Man Kyle's not really a portrait photogorapher, but ok...lol
After over 40 years, I can say that I am more an Ilford HP5 guy, but also dig Tri-X ... I just bought a 100' roll of Kentmere 400 ... so I am making a big commitment!!!
Kentmere 400 is a nice film for the money. I have a 100' roll. Looks very good processed in Caffenol CH. Cheers!
The delta 400 is really sharp minimal grain, so I would shoot digital for that.
Wow, Rollei looks absolutely amazing
Are you planning to try XP2?
Indeed!
I never shot fp4 but i just bought 3 rolls and i am super excited to try them! A friend of mine thinks they would fit my photos incredibly well.
" Moving Forward "
Moving forward
@@amosk24 forward Moving
😬
Interesting, Kyle. I love the sharpness and high contrast of the Ilford Delta so I will be shooting some of it soon. I do appreciate your comparisons. You're doing it for me and saving me a lot of money. Thanks. I look forward to Part Three.
*Ilford fp4 pushed to 800*
Am I the only idiot doing this? LOL
How does it look?
That's an interesting concept. I'd expect it be very grainy and very contrasty. How's that working for you?
@@painovoimaton I love it: high contrast, nice grain, shadows suffer a lot though. I normally shoot in city streets so it's no big deal. Also, hp5 pushed is great as well.
What do you shoot?
@@TrashTheLens grain is nice and very contrasty. I'd experiment with it first, obviously. It's not a look everyone loves but I like it lol
@@DecentGatsby yeah, that's the beauty of film: options, options, options :)
If you're looking for a 35mm film stock, i'd recommend kentmere 400 developed with either HC-110 or Dektol, depending on your contrast needs, but it's on the brink of being a higher contrast film (nowhere near JCH though) and it's actually relatively cheap as well, plus it'll reliably push to 1600. Cheers!
I dev and scan my own black and whites and my Go To films are FP4 and HP5. I actually find the slightly lower contrast and advantage when scanning. I figure I can always add contrast and punch later but its harder to take away. I've always loved the look of Tri-X but found when shot in bright conditions I can't seem to get a decent scan without insane amounts of contrast. The only times I tend to use it now are for very overcast days.
Love your channel, Kyle. So refreshing, so inspiring. A youtuber who takes nice photos, how’s that for a change? A photo-centric channel instead of the usual buy-this-camera-centric channel. Thanks for your videos.
HAHA -- there was this wonderful and also frustrating little DDR-car at 3:04 you took a photo of -- the "Trabant" !
( We had a yellow one....😆🤣)
Great Video as always .
Very informative and enjoyable presentation !
You should try Ilford Ortho Plus and also XP2
I always come back to your videos about film along with Andrew and Denae's. So much information, I went through 100' feet of HP5 and Fomapan 400. I just got 100' of Delta 100 to try out and looking at our video. Thanks for the wonderful resource.
I got the Delta 400 because I want less grain. I just picked up an Olympus Pen FT and half frame makes grain more apparent so hoping Delta balances things out. The wife isn't really a fan of grain, on her 35mm photos, so hopefully this is it.
I love Kodak Tri-X when I want that grain. I find in 100 ISO stocks, Foma 100 really looks great!
I started b/w photography 18 years ago using only tri-x for years as thats what was recommended in school as the "student film". Always developed in D76 at class. Having tried more than a handful of other b/w films I'd say tri-x is still my favorite, it just is black & white to me. I love delta 3200 also but for the money I'll just push some hp5 or tri-x instead at half the cost.
Same here. I was thinking back on this exact thing while watching these videos...how we were taught on Tri X and D76 as the "standard", back in the mid-90's.
Kyle I highly recommend Bergger Pancro 400 if you're looking for a clean and dynamic black and white film.
On the list!
the car weighs about 100kg :D
Well, as for obscure, try adox 50 HR (or CMS 20), rollei ortho 25 and spur 800 :)
CMS 20 isn't currently available in 120 though. An alternative is Agfa Copex Rapid. Shot at EI 25 and developed in SPUR Dokuspeed SL-N you get good tonality and mindblowing resolution. The developer isn't cheap though.
I used to love ortho 25 back when my main subject was landscapes, really high res, almost no grain, very contrasty!
Very, very enjoyable video.
If one is using a camera with a somewhat soft lens (such as older consumer roll film cameras) does something like Delta help mitigate that softness or are you better off to just roll with it and use a classic like Tri-X?
I'm not 100% on this, but I don't think it will help sharpen the image much, if at all. My thought is that a film image will never be sharper than the lens that took it. I'd say the Delta would more fully bring out a lens' resolution potential.
I like the distinct look tri-x gives me developed with rodinol.
I have been shooting TRI-X for decades. Well actually it was the first film I shot and printed in my dads darkroom when I was 13 or 14 so 1979ish. I have tested all the films over the years and I just love TRI-X grain and contrast. At this late stage I don't even think about trying another film. If it works it works right.
Yeah, I get the feeling like it will be one of my go-to's as well.
Shooting my first roll of B&W ever currently (Ilford Delta 100) and just hoping I get anything close to correct exposures 😂
just wondering if you've had a chance to shoot Bergger Pancro 400...it's my go to when shooting portraits
Not yet, but plan to!
Did you shoot the Tri-X at box speed? I tend to shoot it at 320. Some prefer it at 200.......
Yes, these were all mostly shot at box speed.
11:43 I laughed so hard when I heard a Trabant being called a "cool car". Only someone who didn't have that soapbox on wheels as family car could utter such blasphemy. ;)))
What can I say, I like the strange ones.
try out a brand called Shanghai gp3!
One day I'm going to steal that Ford Anglia and ruin all your future shots!
😂 Please dont!
Hey man! Why did you remove your latest video about X-T4?
Long story. Re-uploading a tweaked version today.
Great video
Would love to hear your opinion on the Fomapan film stocks!
Have one sitting here on my desk to try!
@@KyleMcDougall Alright, looking forward to see/hear your opinion then :)
The best b&w film stock is a matter of the photographers choice! I like Ilford's
XP2 and pan f. Both give me the wide latitude and contrasty prints that I work for. Both have extremely fine grain and produce extremely large prints per format.
Ilford XP2 is the best black and white film I’ve ever used. I’m a fan of Ilford Ortho too, but XP2 is incredible, and this is coming from someone who doesn’t really like to shoot black and white a lot.
I know I'm 1 year late to the party, but XP2 is not an ordinary BnW emulsion. It's a chromogenic film, like color negative films. Once developed in C41, there's no silver left on the film, it's just the dies (like in a color neg film). Or maybe you develop your XP2 in BnW chemistry, in that case don't listen to my rambling ^^
Isn't Rollei just one of the (old) Agfa stocks?
Yes. Apparently an old aerial surveillance film.
Adox CHS100ii is really good if you can get it. Would recommend trying it.
I agree, Delta 400 is way too sharp in 120. Great for what it was made for but too clinical form 90% of the things I usually shoot. But in 35mm I like to use it in a way it is not supposed to : with middle to low key scenes if you under-expose it a fair bit it turns black and middle greys zones into a grainy mushy mess that smoothes the transitions between them. It gives character and a completely different vibe to a film that otherwise is the best 400 iso if you need enhanced micro-contrast. Maybe a "Part three" with Delta 100, Tmax 100 and Fuji Across (1&2) ?
I think you would change your mind if you developed yourself and you werent shooting on 6x7. The neg size plays such a 'role' lol.. in choosing what you shoot.
For 35mm i dont ever use above 160.... i think you should try XP2!
These 2 episodes were really appreciated, thanks a lot man. I shot one roll of Tmax 400 and fell in love with it as well. Really enjoyable videos all over
Thanks, Bruno. Glad you enjoyed them!
Price has to be taken into consideration , Hp 5 keeps me skint T max would finish me
kodak super-xx
Given the cost of TriX today, the obvious option is HP5 or Kentmere. There wont be much difference.
So what's important to you in shooting...the visual or the technical side. Sometime one can blind the other.
@11.55 My bold conjecture is that there is just one house in the frame, not two and the car entered through the driveway on the right hand side. Just my speculation.
have you tried ilford pan f kyle?
Not yet, but I do have a roll here.
Please change the way you end your sentences. That vocal Frye drop off, makes it hard to listen to your videos.
Definitely check out acros ii as well, also Delta 3200 can be really fun if you don't mind some grain
I really love TriX 400, perfect for portraits, mystery or lomography
Love Superpan 200! It does awesome in flat light, low contrast; I also like that it compliments images with a lower overall intensity. Best for portraits and environmental portraits - makes people look great. I think your dev and scans are a bit blah. Too much heightened acuity with some film stocks that I think are meant more for landscape/ detail / graphic work, that appeals to sharpness addicts. Great reviews. Nice work.
hello how do you do film emulation on bmpcc 6k? answer please
Video coming soon.
@@KyleMcDougall Let's wait impatiently)
Hi Kyle! Beautiful video! I just wanted to ask you what preset/lut do you use for the B-roll to emulate super 16mm. Thank you so much!
Cheers. I use a DaVinci powergrade called Cineprint16
@@KyleMcDougall Piggybacking on Stefano's Question. Did you use the X-T4 or Blackmagic for those shots? Loving the film gate borders... Where did you get those?
All this navel gazing about the best or worst of this and that. Just go make photos. Thank you.
Great video! I'd love to see one, where you explain how you make these video sequences that look like they were shot on film. Like the shot at 2:43.
There are some labs in the UK that offer a range of developers, you may be interested in this as it means you have more control in the dev without having to purchase a large range of chemistry yourself. Zone imaging lab is one example.
Kyle, I was wondering - how do you get your 16mm-look on the section intro shots? I suppose you film them on your BMPCC or Fuji and color grade? We'd love to see more on your grading process :) . Cheers!
These were actually filmed on the X-T4 and then graded in DaVinci with a 16mm powergrade look. I can go into detail in a future vid possibly!
Try Agfa APX 400, I think you like it.
I’m pretty sure I’ve heard that Rollei Retro 400s, Superpan 200 and Rollei infrared are the same type of Agfa stock. Aviphot Pan 200 I think it is.
Interesting. I definitely saw that mentioned for both 400 and the Superpan.
Still interested in seeing some side by sides of ektar 100 desaturated. I've actually used NLP and selected black and white and had rather astonishing results. It definitely works for someone who shoots in color but wants some bw images from time to time.
Would be cool to see a video too pushing 1/2 stops with hp5, tri-x and t-max (assuming those seem to be some of your favourites)
Superpan 200, great film but needs specific development I found, great in TMax developer and surprisingly Adox Silvermax Developer. Also not a fan of Delta 400, but great if you need a clean sharp image. Tri-X is my hands down first choice in fast films. You can over/under expose then push pull no problems. It was the film that made me love film. Looking forward to the next video! Hopefully some RPX25 in the mix!
Thanks, Alex. Yeah, as mentioned in the vid, Tri-X is really nice, and I'm looking forward to experimenting with it more to start understanding it a bit better!
I've been shooting Superpan 200 a lot lately for contrast and red sensitivity. But I only have Rodinol and CineStill D96 at home. Might have to finally try TMax dev.
I think the car may have been parked before the wall was built.
Tri-X is my One True King.
Yep, quickly becoming my favourite!
Tri-x looks really like if Portra was B&W wow
Tri X, but not at the price it currently is - I've gone to Delta.
I still haven’t used Tri-X before. Thinking it’s time to give it a try🤘
My favorites are the TMax and Tri-X also 🙂 maybe you could try different speeds like TMax 100 or TMax P3200. If I remember correctly you didn't try the Ilford XP2 super 400. I think that's a bit like halfway of HP5 and Tri-X (and you can develop with C41). Nice video!
Cheers, Daniel. Haven't shot any XP2 yet, but I plan too.
Fantastic video. I've been experimenting with different B+W films too, albeit at a slower pace over the past couple of years. Will you be trying the Lomography B+W films? I've really enjoyed the Lomo Berlin and Potsdam films.
Yep! Waiting to get my hands on some.
If you like the midtones, and an overall flat image, you have to try Agfa APX 100 and 400.
They are really cheap, sharp and with low contrast.
Even if I don't post produce, except for a little exposure correction sometimes, i sense that with all of that gray they can be tweaked a lot.
Thanks for the recommendation. I'll put them on the list.
Great video as always! I actually really like the look of the Rollei Superpan 200. Might have to get some and do a video on it myself
Cheers. Worth trying out.
don't waste a lot of time “kodak tx 400 “
I like tri x for 400, Delta 100 for 100.
My best film for all time tmax 100
Loving these comparisons! I've also leaned in to color more as well, but on the few occasions I would always grab Tmax. I've definitely become more interested in the las year in B+W photography so I appreciate the thoughtful comparisons! Looking forward to a head to head Tri-x/Tmax comparison?! As always, great vid 👍
Thanks Jarrett. Looking forward to diving down this rabbit hole a little deeper.
No Fujifilm Acros II? Mama mia…
what's funny about digital/hybrid should be easier but it's not really. We used to pick a film and generally stick to it, and that depended mostly on the camera and the subject/what you liked to shoot/ISO since if it was 35 you weren't changing ISO mid roll, and if it was medium format well then you had options. But the basis was either the Henry Horenstein book or the Adams book The Negative, you did the film speed test and you worked out a developer for N, N+, N- based on the kind of lighting you preferred, grain, contrast, and that was it basically. In 35mm you can't change development mid roll so you tended to N- mostly- When I look at commercially developed film especially dip and dunk it is all over-developed and the negs are way too dense. And not great for scanning either. Hand development is really the only way and the consistency of doing your own, plus doing contact sheets which you don't need an enlarger for, is worth it to understand what film actually does. The hybrid process of scanning raw negs that have been processed by some other entity is just so random that (I feel) either you just standardize on what they give you for convenience and learn to meter to make the negs look good, or you DIY and be super consistent and have real control.
Thanks Robert. A lot to think about here. And yes, looking forward to getting into developing a bit with these films and seeing where it goes. For me, it's always been a balance between the tech and actually making the work. On one hand, if I use a certain film and like the look with the process that I'm using, then I just want to go and start making the work that I'm interested in. But at the same time, I'm obviously interested in exploring options and making sure that I'm using the best process that I can. We'll see where it goes.
@@KyleMcDougall "best" or "your" process might be interchangeable. I think about Lee Friedlander and he's used the same film/dev/paper combo for decades (assuming it wasn't discontinued-) and its wash rinse repeat ever since. Apart from the superwide days anyway. When we had less choice we didn't know we were lacking, it was just what was available. And time moved so much slower so standing at the sink washing film didn't seem like time wasted. It was just chores.
Here in this video we have Goldilocks doing picky film reviews....this film is to cold, this film is to hot....
*too, ....*too c'mon!
Great video Kyle ! Excited to see you’re bw photo project moving forward now that you are narrowing down the film choices!!
Thanks Matias. Looking forward to getting started on it once everything opens back up. Lockdown has slowed the process.
Did you try "unsharpening" the Delta 400?
I didn't.
A great informative video and nice photo's!
Thanks.
How did the car get there, I do not know .... how would I get a car there, rent a crane
Sounds like a good plan.
The car from 11:43 is from the GDR(Eastgerman), a "Trabant 601". It is lightly built and with two people in the front or rear you can lift it and move it sideways. Therefore, it is no wonder for me as a former East German that he can stand there like this.
another great video kyle!
I have a soft spot for kodak films so its always been tmax and tri-x for me!
Cheers!
Curious what’s the shipping like from the us to Spain. How much do you pay and do you worry about x rays?
About £20 with next day FedEx. Never had any issues with x rays.
I use Richard Photo Lab in the US and have never had a problem with xrays and I sometimes use the regular post to send the exposed film from the UK.
My favorite B&W right now has been Eastman Double X hand rolled from the Film Photography Project. It's Kodak motion picture film. It probably goes by other names too so you could find it elsewhere if needed.
That one's on the list as well!
@@KyleMcDougall I would recommend picking it up from northern film lab on eBay, they also offer a whole range of cine films that you may find interesting for experimentation
Hey Kyle Delta 400 in 35 actually does give you more pleasing grain especially developed in Rodinal or Ilford HC. In medium format within the same stock vs 35mm there can be differences in grain. Not to mention pushing or pulling to mitigate grain. My personal favorite is definitely FP4 in 35mm but I probably wouldn’t like it in medium format. What I like about FP4 is it’s flexible nature. Good luck on your quest!
Superpan 200/Retro 400 and Infrared 400 are all the same emulsion. The 400 "speed" is basically just push processing another step. The actual speed of all these are around ISO 50.