USS New Mexico - Guide 290
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- The New Mexico class, battleships of the United States Navy, are today's subject.
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Pinned post for Q&A :)
Could you tell us about the sinking of USS Panay?
If USS Arizona wasn't at Pearl on December 7th 1941, then which US battleship would have suffered her fate?
what did the soviet navy do in ww2 other then get sunk by the luftwaffe?
do you think the idea of the standard type battleships is a better idea than just making battleships with sometimes radically different designs?
and on that note, do you have any easy ways for us to tell each american standard type battleship appart?
You say New Mexico had 8 underwater torpedo tubes. How effective were underwatertorpedotubes and why were they phased out?
Watching a WW1 era standard battleship with its broad hull and casemate gun portholes fire off a guided anti ship missile is very odd
Like a ship from the age of sail with a great big steel turret in the middle of it
My summary of USS New Mexico: So slow the game is usually over by the time you make it to cap.
At least it's only a T6, not as many fast BBs there and most have shit guns, armor or both. Colorado is so much more painful because once you get past T6 almost every ship can do at least 28kts while you're stuck at 21.
Slow but they look so “good”!
My highest win rate ship at 68%w/r on 348 battles
Her only real weakness is that she's slow though. Her guns are accurate and have good pen, her secondaries are respectable for a T6, as is her AA, and she turns on a dime.
Atleast the turrets don't need wd40
Love how USS Mississippi signposts naval history. She fired the last salvo from one big gun capital ship against another at Surigao Strait, and in her test ship guise, completed the first successful intercept by a seaborne SAM. It’s a shame we couldn’t afford to preserve her when offered.
I agree completely but even in the states we have limited room to berth or budget for massive warships in perpetuity. There are many I believe should have been preserved, Big E at the top of the list. Problem is everyone can list a dozen ships easily and as it is we have museums sinking both financially and literally. Still a shame so many were nuked as the admiral hipper was the biggest Kriegsmarine representative still afloat and many others deserved preservation.
As least Hipper went out proving that the Kriegsmarine knew how to build some tough ships. Still cannot think of a single large German warship to suffer catastrophic detonation from 1914 to 1945, even when hit by enormous firepower far exceeding the designed protection of the ships in question. I am sure a destroyer or two must have exploded at some point, but nothing like HMS Hood or the battlecruisers at Jutland.
@@genericpersonx333 The most Underwhelming Heavy Cruiser Class that exceeds the Treaty limits
@@Colonel_Overkill I agree. It's a crying shame that America wastes the ship's she has and hasn't kept ones that wouldn't have been a problem (unlike all the other major powers post both world wars whom either lost. Or won... But owed 6 decades worth of debt to the USA.)
It boggles my mind that all the Iowa class have been kept (all of which are struggling for money to keep them going and all of which didn't actually accomplish much). Yet Texas is probably the world's most tragically neglected warship.
All in the world's most Powerful/richest country.
Very confusing for us in the rest of the world. I know that the UK only paid the us back for war debt in the last 10/15 years. But I'd have taken another 5 years on my taxes if only we could have kept Warspite :(.
@@genericpersonx333 also it's a destroyer, they practically have no armor to speak of unless you're building the really big ones so anything can make magazine detonations happen
No one realized the USS Mississippi is the first missile Battleship in the world, 30 years or so before Iowa refit.
wrt the main armament, in my reading, it was head of BuOrd, Admiral Strauss, previously known for being the father of the superimposed turrets on the Kearsarge and Virginia classes, that was advocating for the 14". As Drac said, Strauss maintained that engagements would always be at 12,000 yards or less. At that range, the 14" could penetrate well enough, and, being lighter, more could be carried. In a newspaper article speculating whether the Tennessees would have 16" rather than 14", there was some FUD injected into the debate, claiming the 16" had an alarmingly high wear rate, and claims that the British 15"/42 also had a very short service life, while the 14" had an excellent service life. Strauss held the line on the 14", until the summer of 1916. Jutland made it clear his 12,000 maximum engagement range was unrealistic, and, that summer, Daniels announced, with the agreement of the General Board, the next class, the Colorados, would be armed with 16" guns. In his annual report in the fall of 16, Daniels said this decision was made "over the objection of some officers". Strauss requested sea duty. There was no movement on his request for sea duty for a month or two. Late that year, in Congressional testimony, Strauss, again, rolled out his talking points for the 14", publicly pushing back on the decision made months before by Daniels and the General Board. President Wilson moved the next day to appoint then head of the Indian Head test range, Ralph Earle, as head of BuOrd, and Strauss was given command of the Nevada. The SecNav annual reports from 15-16 and newspapers of the same period made for some fascinating reading about this debate.
There seems to be a history of people in BuOrd pushing on very odd ideas and statements.
really a weird time when you find debates on the design of battleships in the local paper. Imagine the scandal the Zimwalt would have caused with its completely useless guns because the navy can't/won't buy ammo for it
It is ironic that while Strauss was really wrong about the 14'' gun, the 14'' gun remained about as small a battleship gun as one could have and still be considered dangerous at the end of the battleship era. The often less-heralded lesson of Jutland was that even smaller battleship guns were dangerous to all battleships even at long ranges if you let enough of them hit. It really took massive improvements in fire-control, improvements that didn't become properly commonplace until the early 1940s, for the smaller-gunned battleships to be consistently outranged in typical engagements, and even then, an Italian 12.6'' or German 11'' shell could still make very expensive, if not necessarily fatal, holes in one's battleship. Not even Yamato would want a dozen 14'' shells smacking into it as there was a lot of useful stuff outside of the armor resistant to 14'' fire. The USN probably should have just gone to 16'' to start with, but 14'' at least kept the USS New Mexico a viable battlewagon right up to the end.
@@Ironclockwork Hence why some people pronounce it as "BuOdd" 😏
@@AsbestosMuffins in a newspaper article on the decision to go to 16", the long running debate was recapped, with the note that the Navy had the same argument when it went from 12" to 14". Soon after the decision was made on the Colorados, there was discussion of changing the New Mexicos and Tennessees to 16". A Navy spokesman was quoted that the New Mexicos were too far along and such a change would have been prohibitively expensive. The barbettes on the Tennessees, from what I have found, were the same diameter as those on the Colorados, 32 feet. The twin 16" turret is slightly lighter than the triple 14", and the part of the 16" turret that extends down into the barbette is 6 inches smaller in diameter, so seems to me the 16" turret should fit a Tennessee fine. Neither California nor Tennessee had been laid down yet. I wonder how close they came to issuing a change order on the Tennessees to go to 16"? What probably made their decision was that the guns and turrets were on order and there would probably be cancellation charges if they made the change. Would they have made the same decision if they knew of the dispersion problems those tripe 14" mounts would suffer? Imagine the impact on the Washington Treaty. With 16" guns, the Tennessees would have been regarded as "post-Jutland", so, with them and Maryland, the US would have it's three "post" ships, and West Virginia and Colorado would be broken up. If the US completed West Virginia and Colorado, it would have five "post" ships, so the Japanese would demand to complete Tosa, to be it's third "post" ship, meeting the 5:5:3 ratio, while making a good argument they could built one ship over treaty limit, because of Hood. Then the UK would need to build four Nelsons for parity.
"it ain't much, but it's honest work" - this class' history
Mississippi actually fired the last salvo of a battleship firing against another battleship in history, and Idaho was the only American battleship to ever empty her magazine in a single exercise so they have some records to display.
At long last the most visually appealing and honestly beautiful of the whole Standard line of battleships The NEW MEXICO-CLASS
@@willemsma in my opinion both configurations even with the cage masts the New Mexico-class still had that beauty to them that made them stand out and made me fall in love with them. And even after their rebuilds they still maintained the lines and beauty. I know some say beauty is in the eye of the beholder but these ships maintained that beauty. Just my personal opinion anyway hope that makes some sense
I'm quite surprised that you missed the 1930's refit of the class which removed their cage masts and replaced them with a lower tower type forward superstructure (quite unlike the refits of earlier ships). Also, though New Mexico and Idaho were mainly employed in shore bombardment, Mississippi did participate in the Battle of the Surigao Strait. So, their careers weren't quite as boring as they may have first appeared.
I had a section in there about the 1930s updates, but as you can see the timing was already a bit tight 😀
As Mississippi only got off a single salvo, again for time reasons I went with 'mostly' shore bombardment to leave room for Surigao without have to add that section as well. 😀
@@Drachinifel Indeed. I missed some of that. (as usual, the devil is always in the details) Thanks for the clarification.
@@Drachinifel “leave room for surigao” battle of surigao strait video confirmed 😳,jk 😆but seriously I enjoyed your battle cover videos like cape north and matapan, and with so many eyes in samar, videos about the less known battles of layte will be a breath of fresh air if the opportunity is present of course.
@@Drachinifel I truly don't believe that you would have had even 1% of your viewerbase complain that such a video was one or two minutes longer 🙂
@@florida5135
I doubt anyone would complain. And if they do. Keelhual the lubbers.
USS New Mexico (BB-40) is my favorite warship simply because I'm from New Mexico so I'm very happy for the Warship guide. Thank you.
As a New Mexican and a huge battleship fan this was THE ship guide I have been waiting for
My favorite of the American dreadnoughts! Partly because I volunteer at a military museum where we have a 24" highly detailed model of late '45 USS Idaho, my home state!
My father was a marine and served on both the Idaho and the New Mexico prior to WW II. I grew up in NM and have seen the NMs bell.
Been waiting for this one - one of my favorites as well - something about the layout / look of them is what I think of when I hear the word “Battleship”. Real shame one this class not kept as a Museum. Wish World of “Wierdships” would add more of the real ships into game Idaho would be good as it had 5 inch singles… Thanks Drach - made my day when I saw this post this morning! 👍
I think of a queen Elizabeth class. Still a super dreadnought i suppose 🤣🤣
I agree, the New Mexicos and the California's had a great asthetic to them. The clipper bow, the triple turrets, and even the hull casement gun emplacements gave them the iconic look of power.
I love USS Texas as well, the turret farm gives her the appearance of raw power. I'm so glad she was saved as a museum ship. It gives us a fantastic look at the super-dreadnoughts .
0:43 makes your point better than anything one could type.
I have a toy battleship from my younger years and I’m pretty darn sure it’s New Mexico or one of the Sisters Ships.
I've whined at WoW several times about incorporating the Swayback Maru (CA-26 USS Salt Lake City) as a premium. Could have John Wayne as the skipper. One of his movies has him reporting for duty with a broken arm injured in an attack on the Swayback on Dec 7th. (Never happened, but Hollywood. don'tcha know). Hey they've given us ships of greater bogosity over the years, and the Swayback actually saw service.
Wake up this morning for another morning of Trucking from Albuquerque, and USS New Mexico has me wondering, are you following me?
My great uncle worked as a steamfitter at the Bremerton shipyards of the US Navy. Only met him twice as a boy, he being then in his 70' s in 1959.
He talked of these great ships gliding through the fog and mist of the Puget Sound.
He painted pictures with words.
Slow as they may be by WWII, the Standards were graceful ladies of the sea.
It's ironic that the ships that were part of the "standard" type post refit all ended up very different
Some finished looking much as they did at the beginning of the war while others were so extensively rebuilt post Pearl Harbor that in profile they looked much like the South Dakota though with two superimposed 14" turrets forward and two aft. Much of the same electronic fit and four twin 5"/38 mounts per side along with new rangefinders. The only thing they really lacked was being reengined to achieve 27 knots or better. Doing that would have delayed them an additional year or more.
Indeed, it a reminder that "Naming Conventions" are often less conventional than we think. Only commonality of the "Standards" to start with was they had to be capable of operating at 21 knots, the dictated fleet "standard," for long periods of time to ensure a consistent speed for the Line of Battle when drawing up operational plans. In theory, Standards could actually be individually faster than 21 knots if the designers thought it feasible within their allowed budgets, but no designers found it worthwhile.
@@robertf3479 There were 4 ships out of the Standards that got that "standard" refit template: Nevada, Tennessee, California, and West Virginia. In addition to the South Dakota style superstructure, all 4 of them had large torpedo bulges than any of the other Standards received...which rendered them too wide to fit in the Panama Canal, and also reduced their top speed slightly to around 20-20.5 knots.
My grandfather served on USS New Mexico from 1924 to 28.
The New Mexico has always been my favorite standard BB from the era, particularly after the refits. It gave them what I think is the classic outline of the 2nd World War US battleship. They're everything that represents US battlewagons (Pre-SoDak) - hulking, slow and filled with guns.
Based on the Patreon poll, I see that most people heard your desire to cover this class, Drach :)
Yes, as soon as we knew New Mexico was his favorite the voting was overwhelming :)
Speaking as someone from Mississippi, it is a tragedy that our namesake battleship was not preserved as a museum.
Lord knows we've contributed enough to the Navy through Ingalls that we ought have our own museum ship in Biloxi.
Why? How many museum BB’s do we need? We have LOTS, especially compared to the UK. America, an embarrassment of riches.
@@CorePathway We have LOTS because we are the greatest naval power the world has ever seen. And Mississippi was a major contributor to the US Navy during the Second World War, so yeah, our namesake battleship ought have been preserved.
I'm assuming that there wasn't a lot of interest since USS Mississippi wasn't really a battleship anymore and was rendered rather ugly by her conversion to a gun and missile testbed.
Would have been great to have the Alabama, Mississippi and Texas today. Kind of a modern battleship row of museum ships on the gulf coast. Mississippi and Alabama would have been close enough that you could tour both in a day or two and do some compare and contrast.
Douglas Fairbanks Jr was stationed on the USS Mississippi early in his naval service. It was before she was recalled to the Pacific after the Pearl Harbor attack.
Ah yes, the New Mexico class. The battleships that looked at the Queen Anne's Mansions on their british cousins and went: "Hmmm... What if we had that, but better looking?"
My wife's grandfather re-upped right after Pearl Harbor, and spent the entire war aboard USS New Mexico. Somewhere around here we have a tea tray he made from a copy of that iconic photo of New Mexico riding at anchor off Fujiyama.
Thank you Drach - from Albuquerque, New Mexico. 👍🏻
And from Socorro NM, Drach.
My Dad served on her during the Second World War . Thank you for this Five Minute Guide.
Mine too.
My dad served on the New Mexico during WWII. He was in one of the main 3 gun turrets. They were hit by Kamikazis several times late in the war. One hit the bridge, killing the captain and 20+ others.
MY Uncle Anthony "Butch" Carpenetti was lost 12th may 45 on his AA BATTERY. Was GM2nd class...My family had 5 brothers serving,4 Navy ++1 Army. Leo was the Army,lent to 1st Marines on some hill on Okinawa lost..Shame I only seen images of Butch and Leo,family never got over it..Salute...
One of those killed on 12 May 1945 aboard USS New Mexico was Lieutenant General Herbert Lumsden. He was the most senior British Army combat fatality of World War II.
In the Pacific war of WW2 battleship on battleship was uncommon. As in it happened twice. The big guns were extensively used for shore bombardment. Where the 14” vs 16” gun armament was an academic exercise.
At last, YOUR favorite! Thank you.
What’s sad is there were opportunities to preserve at least 2 of the 3 ships, and even some interest, but not sufficient interest from anywhere they could be berthed at
Suggestion, Can you do an episode on oilers and how they replenish underway.
One of my favourite looking battleships post refit
The New Mexico, turning into Old Mexico by the time it gets to the cap point
I hated playing that ship. The game was over before I got anywhere important.
My NROTC unit has the helm of the New Mexico
beautiful ships
IMO their subsequent refit which replaced the cage masts with towers made them the finest looking battleships in the US Navy.
Something about the lattice masts I find very pleasing, though I understand the structural reasons they didn't persist and I certainly wouldn't want to be on top of one during a gun battle or heavy seas... 😂
Beautiful class of ships, I enjoyed being on board after WW2
One of the barrels of the Mississippi sits behind the Wind Creek casino in Bethlehem, PA in a parking lot, on display.
Not the Sands anymore?
@@WALTERBROADDUS nope. They changed ownership.
Thank you so much for this channel, it is super informative
My grandfather was Fire Control 1st class on BB42 USS Idaho "The Mighty I" from 42-46. I've found a few videos online of her in a floating drydock and doing the dirty work on Iwo Jima, always fascinated by her. Thank You.
My father served on the USS Mississippi as an anti aircraft gunner’s mate from 1943 through the end of the war.
Thank you Drach, the New Mexico is one of my favorites IRL and in WoWS Legends, as well as the California, as she's pretty much as close to a USS Second Ammendment as you can get.
At a antique store I found a photo of a sailor taken aboard one of the new mexicos before their retrofits and I believe it is the uss mississippi
My Grandfather was on the Mississippi as a Gunner's Mate. 1917 to 1919, I believed.
They got a lot of mileage out of those ships. Imagine a 1915 ship being used to test missles. When they commissioned the Sopwith Camel was the premiere naval fighter.....
Thank you, Drachinifel.
Achievement Unlocked: Incremental Improvement. Description: covering all of the standard class battleships built for the US navy
Is it just me or do the standards LOOK faster than they are? It must be the bow.
They look fast if you see the clipper bow from an angle where the length-to-beam ratio isn’t obvious (and if you don’t pay too much attention to the size of the funnels).
WHAT? No mention of poor Lieutenant General Herbert Lumsden, the most senior death in the British Army, whom met his fate on the bridge of New Mexico?
Too many details, too little time. Have to do a Wdnesday video on them at some point 😀
I wonder if Drach would do a segment on HMS Zubian. What an interesting ship, the result of welding two damaged WW1 Tribal class destroyers together to create a new "Frankenship", which turned out to be very successful. My bad if he's already done it.
As I recall, this has happened twice, and I too, would love to hear the details.
One of the commanders of the USS Mississippi you may have heard of before...one Raymond Ames Spruance...
If you haven't done so yet, I would like a review of the Virginia class battleships, those ones were kinda odd, given they tried fitting 12 and 8 inch guns in the same turret.
My grandfather was on her in ww2.
Could you please consider a different tack and give short biographies on influential admirals such as Fisher, Wemyss, Keyes etc.
You mean 5 minute guides to Admirals? That would be fun to see! maybe every other guide should be just tat for a while, there's alot of admirals to cover so it could go on for a long time. I question whether it is what he wants to donin a 5 minute guide though. Guess we'll see.
Couldn’t have said it better myself!
It's interesting how ditching the basket masts suddenly made the whole ship look more modern.
Quick and dirty. Thank you, Drach
What a beautiful boat
As far as I can tell, USS Mississippi was the longest in-commission battleship in US Navy history, from 1917 to 1954, although as is pointed out, it was not used as a battleship post-World War II but nonetheless remained in commission. Later this year or into next, the navy will commission a new USS Idaho, the first such named vessel since USS Idaho BB-42 was decommission in 1947
In WOWS the New Mexico is still my most played ship in standard matches all these years later despite not using it anymore lol.
Asuggestion for a future guide - HMS Manxman. And by the way thanks for the HMCS Cerberus previously.
I notice you didn't mention that Idaho's secondary armament after refit was unique among all battleships in having 5"/38s in single instead of twin turrets.
Great video about a great class of American ship, well built, economical to run, with many new features in gunnery control. PLUS They looked great!
My dad was assigned to the USS Idaho BB42 in the 1927/1928 era as a fireman. I have one of his training certificates from the Idaho. After he left the navy, he enlisted in the army and was honorably discharged on 5 December 1941 and was thirty years old at the time. He tried to go back in after 7 December, but they said he was too old... So, he joined the Texas National Guard and became a mortar platoon sergeant. 36th Division, 143rd Infantry, company D. He passed away at a veteran's hospital in 1992.
Morning coffee and Drachinifel makes for the start of a good Saturday morning.
Those old cage masts added a nice filigreed touch to the design. Very classy.
My great grandfather served on this ship during ww2 in the Navy
The old battleships were too slow to work with the carriers, but useful for shore bombardment and distant convoy cover.
I think you'd enjoy the story of the New Mexico at the scrap yard.
Excellent presentation!
Man, I was waiting for you to make this guide, I always thought she was identical to the Tennessee.
Can anyone explain how the superstructure/masts were configured like this, as opposed to the earlier and later tripod masts?
I've wanted these ships as Rare BB for AL so I can have the complete Standard chorus line.
Only an 8 minute video for the most aesthetically pleasing warship in history??!?!?
The Pearl Harbor raid was the best thing that ever happened to the U. S. defense industries. Penny-pinching went the way of the T-Rex.
Have you ever done a story on what is called the second Pearl Harbor? This is where a group of LST's were tied up in one of the lochs, waiting to go out to what I think is the invasion of Saipan, and one ship started on fire, blew up, and started a chain reaction on several of the other LST's. I remember my late father talking about that. He mentioned that he was in one of the ships further down the line, and when the captain of his LST saw what was happening, he got the engines started and pulled the LST out of the line.
More bang for the buck
Do you plan to make a long episode about the us standard battleship
My favorite class of American battleships.
I can sympathise with the people who wanted 16 inch guns. Battleships were all about concentration of force, and you get more concentrated force from eight big guns than from twelve smaller ones.
Nice video…. Thanks for sharing!
A solid improvement on the Pennsylvania class
I understand why older ships like the New Mexico didn't see a full conversion to missile ships but why not newer units like Iowa or the South Dakotas? I had a crewman from the Iowa tell me that if they were ever hit by an Exorcet that they would just be out scraping and painting the next day. After the loss of the Moskova to a single hit, I don't see why they aren't discussing building capital ships with battleship grade armor.
It's really cheap to upgrade the warheads on the missiles.
The battle between warhead and armor is over, warhead won.
See Yamato and Tirpitz if you need more evidence. And those were sunk without either guided weapons and nuclear weapons.
@@mikespangler98 the battle between arms and armor never ends. Its an endless cycle. There are videos on youtube of old ships taking a dozen of hits from harpoons in live fire exercises and still floating. Armor has been abandoned on anything less than a CVN due to expense not because it lacks value for protection.
@@madrabbit9007 Wrong, we don't place heavy armor on warships because fitting an AP warhead to a missile is extremely simple. In fact, we still use high pen weapons on land that can smash through anything you stick on a ship, they simply aren't programed to target ships though, because we can't armor ships effectively with current armoring tech. Maybe someday an armoring type will come about where a mach 4 multi ton block of steel can be stopped by it but since we can't float such armor right now, we use unarmored ships with subdivisions designed to contain damage.
@@kyleheins how well did that work for the Moskva?
@@madrabbit9007 The videos of ships taking multiple hits are of target ships stripped of normal flammable contents such as weapons, fuel, and personnel supplies. Extended fires are one of the most dangerous effects of a hit, and can lead to progressive watertight breakdowns. The ships are "still floating", but would be completely battle ineffective.
Please do USS Mississippi and the problems the navy had with turrets exploding
do a more extensive bit on the USS Mississippi!
7:33 idk why but a ww1 era battleship firing a missile looks cursed af
I know you want to keep these short, but the scrapping of New Mexico and Idaho resulted in the so-called Battle of Newark Bay. It could be worth a brief mention somewhere down the line. I do not know if you have any videos associated with the politics of scrapping.
If, as a thought hypothetical, big gun battleships were suddenly in vogue or somehow needed for surface warfare, do you think any navy would have the capacity to manufacture the big guns at fairly short notice?
Awesome thanks
Fascinating!
I can't remember but have you done a video on the advantages and disadvantages of turbo-electric drive Vs Steam turbines
Drach!!!
please do USS North Carolina
Okay, the Lemnos and Kilkis are dying to have a video, you know they are.
Did it finally turn up in the queue or did you feel compelled to just have to do it now? I remember you talking on this subject in the past.
Thank you sir. A nifty little class of ships sorely handicapped by a cheap Congress, a cheaper Navy, and the somewhat boring nature of the Standard class battleships.
I wish we had a cheap Congress. Today we're spending $4 billion on destroyers that don't do the job they were designed for.
sadly we couldn't build even one of these today.
Interesting
Commenting so the AI overlord may grant Drach favor and bless this channel.
I am interested in two class of US ships though they may me too new/ Adams class Destroyer and the Pegasus Hydrofoil