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They 100% did it on purpose they made the video tiny and the chat HUGE. I even sent a message from the EMBED. Saying how they are embedding and it got instant deleted and then I was timed out for 30min and moments later perm banned. This was before asmon said anything. Why would they do that if they didnt know what they were doing was wrong and literally had mods ready to ban anyone that says anything.
1 they protected a known child predator and gave him a platform to hurt children and use it against them, then they start pushing NFT Crypto scams and now they have been using 3rd party sites to view bot and lie to sponsors because nobody watches them. Sad part is people still defend them its gross and pathetic. Your defending a org that not only knew what methodjosh was doing but worked to hide it and cover for him for years and now they are viewbotting to hurt other guilds and everyone trying to build a legit viewerbase. They have been doing this for years. Since BFA. They 100% did it on purpose they made the video tiny and the chat HUGE. I even sent a message from the EMBED. Saying how they are embedding and it got instant deleted and then I was timed out for 30min and moments later perm banned. This was before asmon said anything.
TY for saying the truth its sad they are fucking the community over again and again. Atleast u have balls for doing the right thing and thats why I always like your videos from the very start when you made content on 40man raiding in vanilla. and history of it.
TY for saying the truth its sad they are fucking the community over again and again. Atleast u have balls for doing the right thing and thats why I always like your videos from the very start when you made content on 40man raiding in vanilla. and history of it. Preach deserves respect for staying true to his morals and not be biased based on money and friendship. Same with asmon. You know they were trying to cover this up they even had mods in the chat ahead of time to instant ban anyone that said anything. I got banned for saying they were using embeds from the actual embed before asmon even said anything. They have been doing this for years, since BFA and they do it for MDI too.
Just dropping a comment to say enjoying the daily recap of the race/drama etc. I lost intrest in playing wow a long time ago and don't enjoy watching the race with all the crazy splits, gold loans etc, so listening to the recap in a 20min video is a good format for the hearing about the juicy parts.
1 they protected a known child predator and gave him a platform to hurt children and use it against them, then they start pushing NFT Crypto scams and now they have been using 3rd party sites to view bot and lie to sponsors because nobody watches them. Sad part is people still defend them its gross and pathetic. Your defending a org that not only knew what methodjosh was doing but worked to hide it and cover for him for years and now they are viewbotting to hurt other guilds and everyone trying to build a legit viewerbase. They have been doing this for years. Since BFA. They 100% did it on purpose they made the video tiny and the chat HUGE. I even sent a message from the EMBED. Saying how they are embedding and it got instant deleted and then I was timed out for 30min and moments later perm banned. This was before asmon said anything.
They 100% did it on purpose they made the video tiny and the chat HUGE. I even sent a message from the EMBED. Saying how they are embedding and it got instant deleted and then I was timed out for 30min and moments later perm banned. This was before asmon said anything. Why would they do that if they didnt know what they were doing was wrong and literally had mods ready to ban anyone that says anything.
TY for saying the truth its sad they are fucking the community over again and again. Atleast u have balls for doing the right thing and thats why I always like your videos from the very start when you made content on 40man raiding in vanilla. and history of it. Preach deserves respect for staying true to his morals and not be biased based on money and friendship. Same with asmon. You know they were trying to cover this up they even had mods in the chat ahead of time to instant ban anyone that said anything. I got banned for saying they were using embeds from the actual embed before asmon even said anything. They have been doing this for years, since BFA and they do it for MDI too.
Wasn't Blizzard saying they were going to be moving away from Mythic being tuned for the top guilds in the world to make it more accessible? Wouldn't that in theory make for an easier raid for these top guilds?
Yes, and now the RWF has to adjust. The one thing Blizz could do to make it better is cut back on splits somehow, either by making them completely unnecessary or making them impossible or inefficient
If so that is a good change, I like Preach been watching him since Ghost days but his mentality is utterly twisted due to his involvement. Mythic being doable for the normal raiding playerbase WITH EFFORT is something that must happen. Blizzard tuning for races decimated Mythic raid clears because nobody could do the damn thing leading to months of constant nerfs so the plebs could have a go. If it means the race is tiny so be it, that is a sign these players need something new to challenge themselves and should not expect the game to fuck everyone for their own benefit.
For what it's worth, both Echo and Liquid have spot on casters this time around. I default to rooting for Liquid just because I hang out in some of their streams more often than in Echo player streams, but I purely tune in to both events just for the casters because I love to watch all of them individually. Preach, AutomaticJak, Okaymage, Kalamazi, Naguura ..so many fun folks all in two mega stream events covering a gaming event is just a good time. I do agree splits are tedious to watch, but the casters really do the heavy lifting there and, for me, that's well worth it.
If these guilds are disappointed with the raid, it means blizz are doing it right, it's about time they stopped doing the raids for these 5 guilds, while mythic clearing raids keep dropping.
I mean its especially the case if its due to the amount of resources these guilds have. You can’t make any sort of MMO and then expect the people who have literal infinite gold, near infinite time to play, an endless pool of players to funnel gear from etc., and THEN make content that those people truly have to cut their teeth on. Its unrealistic to expect both of these things. Restricting the ability to do splits somehow would almost certainly impact the game negatively for people just trying to raid normally or even just lfg pug some bosses.
except it only for these x guilds you act like no others guild clear in in a week or 2 - 3 4 and keep clearing it it just the first week/2weeks only the top can clear it....
@@basvanderwerff2725 well in my oppinion if you are planning to be 6/9 M in first two weeks you are not casual guild and in my oppinion even those guilds prefer to have some progress rather than clearing whole tier in 3-4 weeks and then just re-clear for half year. But is is just my assupmtions as I am in world 400-500 guild so clearing Mythic in first 4 weeks does not apply to me.
from a viewers perspective the splits need to die to make the race interesting again. If I tune into a stream and see them just doing splits I will immediately be gone again.
R2WF would be much cooler if it wasnt so corporate. im sorry but i dont care of these "pros" arent happy with the 2-3 days of mythic prog. is some regular guild came through and got the firsy clear it would be so much better.
I know what they mean, but it is kinda funny to hear the complaint being "we did an unreasonable amount of prep to scrounge for gear and then beat the boss too quickly". Like, my brother in christ, you chose to do heroic splits. Blizz could consider doing some kind of contest mode for world first raiding to make the event an actual race. Why is exploiting the weekly loot lockout part of the world first race?
I feel like this whole blizzard needs to do something about the race to world first thing is just insane, this is not blizzards fault, look at the fucking ridiculous shit these guilds do now, they have teams and teams of people to finish the raid as fast as possible, the only reasonable solution that doesn't hurt 99.99999% of the player base is tournament realm, you get top 100 last tier and you qualify for the race to world first hosted on tournament servers. Could scale gear, do whatever you want.
They 100% did it on purpose they made the video tiny and the chat HUGE. I even sent a message from the EMBED. Saying how they are embedding and it got instant deleted and then I was timed out for 30min and moments later perm banned. This was before asmon said anything. Why would they do that if they didnt know what they were doing was wrong and literally had mods ready to ban anyone that says anything.
Even if tournament realm support for raiding was added, there’s 2 issues: 1. The raiders prefer progressing on their “real” characters. Fine maybe let’s ignore their opinion, then…2. There would just end up being 2 parallel races at the same time (live realm and tournament realm) and it’s almost certainly likely that the general playerbase, news publishers like wowhead, and sponsors/investors would deem the live realm as the more legitimate race. The live realm just has that mystical allure for the hyper competitive.
Splits are just not worth watching, real race is last 2, maybe 3 bosses so realistic a 2‐3 day event. Only way to make it interesting is if it was completely BLIND like FF14 ultimate, no PTR. With WoW level of production and established culture of RWF
Personally, given we live in times where people don't just play one game, not even just one MMO, it makes a lot of sense for Mythic to not be balanced around the 0.0000001% essentially just 3 Guilds. And I prefer that too.
The effort for splits is honestly just a personal choice at this time, it's not remotely fun to watch RWF, you just tune out until it's the day of prof of the last boss, it really takes away from the "world first" kills that other guilds got because in their eyes it doesn't count, only last boss does.
Liquid is definitely the better guild, if they didn't have to deal with so many set backs that are out of their hands, they would win almost every single race
Waiting for the video on the "fake viewers" since Echo had around 50% of embeded viewers around there kill, But i guess we won't hear anything about it :)
They 100% did it on purpose they made the video tiny and the chat HUGE. I even sent a message from the EMBED. Saying how they are embedding and it got instant deleted and then I was timed out for 30min and moments later perm banned. This was before asmon said anything. Why would they do that if they didnt know what they were doing was wrong and literally had mods ready to ban anyone that says anything.
I love mythic to be difficult, I love races going long (I did enjoy watching Jailer's raid for it's entirety). Nowadays I don't have time to get that cutting edge each tier nor to play wow, but I still understand what classes do and always learn boss mechanics before raid for world first to see what they are doing and it's really a blast for me. I hope this will never end man
The absolute best part is a big streamer pretending that a company during a release or event in any way shape or form has a impact on small streamers. The single thing that hurts small streamers are big streamers. There is a reason why some streamers move their streams to times where the big streamers is offline.
I´m assuming these split runs are just for feeding gear to specific caracters but how are they trading them over? Correct me if i´m wrong as i havent played wow in a long time but isent raid loot personal and unless u already got a higher ilvl peave of gear u cant trade it to another raid member so how are they trading the superior gear drops from alts over to the main caracters? Looks like the progress have sorted itself out as of writing this 6 guilds are at 7/9 top 3 of them ofc being Liquid, Echo and Method in that order. Btw if i were to be intrested in watching these live are there live casted streams going on for these teams or are they putting that together after a kill to not give away strategys? If so where can i find these live casting streams.
The problem with the RWF is 2 fold. You either design it for the extreme top end which compromises the mode for everyone else, or you don't and it's shorter, which has pros and cons, but splits need to die in a fire somehow. Immediate turn off at least from me
Splits are the entire reason I haven't even watched this race. I just can't care anymore now that Sloot has retired (the only person individually I watched).
I think this tuning is better for the health of the game. Not only do many of these players have a straight mechanical advantage compared to the average player, but they are doing 4-8 weeks of raid progress in 2 days. Tuning around that curve is impossible. For the drama I think that is on twitch to change the metric if they want. It would be dumb not to market yourself where and how you can.
JB had a clip where he lampooned that idea that players do not actually like races that are super quick which stands out to me given you said Aberrus was not memeroable which is funny since it was one of the more well banaced raids which led to a pretty balanced race. I would argue the worst raid was Vault given the that both Echo and Liquid were upset about the giga nerfs that came in to ensure raz was killed by before Christmas. Vault also was a nightmare of hot fixes and turret nerfs compared to Aberrus which was relatively was not riddled by the need to hotfixs or nerfs to the fights as the race went on. Then you have a situation during Sepulture in which the race was wildly not as fun and interesting to watch.
Heroic week was worse for the average player because of things around it like delayed lfr and delayed m+. The only way I want to go back to delayed mythic is if everything else comes out with heroic. Also the idea they wont do splits just because mythic isnt out is wild. This is gaming in the 2020s
RWF was cool the first few times but it quickly became rather boring. Especially when it became so formulaic as in -> stuck at wall til reset, do more splits, wall topples easily. Honestly this is for the best. The game needs to be fun for the majority of players which aren’t as skilled as top world guilds. If the event takes a hit as a result of that, then that’s a hit worth taking as it benefits the majority.
Turns out Smolderon is about 100x harder than all the other Mythic bosses. Maybe because it’s an Orange boss in an Orange arena, with Orange mechanics.
There can’t make choices to help world 1st if it effects the rest of the player base. Either world first deal with it or quit. There is not a good solution here in my opinion.
Liquid had a lot of time waiting for bug fixes so it certainly takes some take off the advantage and there might be more to come, admittedly they can M+ in that time but I'm sure they'd rather have just raided.
Liquid claim a boss is bugged/unkillable at least once every tier, and in 99/100 cases it's not true and then Echo kills the "unkillable" boss. Just because they claim that happened doesn't mean it's true.
Honestly ive only been keeping up with it cause of your awesome ways of keeping us informed here on youtube. I dont have the time to watch twitch near as often and tuning in and just watching the team do splits is incredibly boring. The interactions with you and the other announcers save it in alot of ways but unless blizz changes it back to having heroic week I will probably only ever tune in near the end if I have the time.
So this is a first for me watching world first race for wow raid. I'm a noob so judge me. But this split thing to me seems wild. I have ff14 brain rot so ignore me. I'd just like to see prog of the hardest fight right off the bat rather than running the lower level difficulties a bunch of times to get to the hardest fight. Give players the agency to tackle it without this extra work? Make it harder and so much more different than the original fight. Like I said I have ff14 brain rot. I going to compare them only in the aspect one engages me more than the other. I'm open to seeing others opinions on this. Is it entertaining to see people run heroic over and over again before getting into mythic? I guess same could be said about seeing people dying over and over to the same stupid mechanic in TOP. Tho that moment of moving to a new mechanic in a phase just seems so much more engaging than running splits. This is a difference in design philosophy, know I get that. I'm just wondering if wow players would like a different approach to raids rather than the one they have now?
The Problem is that in WoW there is a ultimate difficulty that drops high Ilvl gear and is balanced around having "full savage gear" until the endboss who requires ultimate gear. Imagine FF14 players get into a new raid, where a new normal/savage/ultimate tier opens up at the same time and you need savage gear to do ultimate. Thats why Split exists , because in the RWF you dont have organic time to gear for the Ultimate Bosses so you splitraid. If you dont splitraid you are undergeared for the final boss.
Many regular guilds rely on heroic gear to step foot and progress into mythic. Suppose you try to prevent splitting from ever happening (ex. Heroic gear only impacting heroic mode) and world first guilds push mythic from day 1, they’ll still finish the whole raid eventually. What about your average guild who can’t kill a single mythic boss without help from heroic gear? In general, most (if not all) “solutions” to throttle the top 0.1% end up punishing significant portions of the playerbase.
@@GerzhusTVFFXIV still has gear scaling to help people get clears later, it's just not strictly necessary to get the clear week 1 if you're skilled enough.
The problem in the race is that everyone blasts through everything but the last boss or two on day 1 of mythic. Then, the players and the viewers stare at the same thing day after day and people start checking out. If it is nothing but Fyraak for the next two weeks, it will be the opposite problem: there will be a nerf and whoever happens to pull the boss next wins....which is definitely the worst case scenario. (Raz) No perfect answers as always because everyone wants different things and simply making a wall "for more exposure" is equally silly as having everything fall over in 2 days
Maybe it's a bit callous, especially with what channel this is, I'm fine if Blizzard is making Mythic actually approachable to more of the playerbase. It just doesn't make sense to make content that an insignificant percentage of the playerbase ever experiences outside of streams. It's just a waste of development resources that could be used for the betterment of the rest of the playerbase. It'd suck to lose the RWF, but I'd be fine with it for the overall health of the game.
When will Echo removing their embeds on their site? They have multiple on the same site just farming viewers. I guess since you had to make such a heart felt video about the toxic behaviour of embedding streams. You must have brought it up to the org that pay for your time. It must be, I can't fantom the hypocrisy otherwise. On a more serious note. How is this not 100% twitch being a bad platform? They provide the embedding as a service. Both as a way to fully show your stream on external sites. But also use it as a sidebar plugin to show as supplement to your main content. Method seems to have been using it in a very much correct way. Where they own sites that provide wow content. The sites are still mainly the content you go to the page to view. They just have tier steam on which might interest the audience. Which in return can help them provide the website for free. The preach take would be warranted and not just virtue signaling if they had hidden elements on sites. That would be using embeds only for the purpose of faking views. I have thought of you as one of the grown up "influencers" but this take is feels like a vendetta or something. The take from Asmongold is very "company" bad. But failing to remember that there is only one thing that kills smaller streamers and that is bigger streamers just vacuuming all the viewers from a section when they go online. A company "gaining" algo points because they have sites related to what they stream during a event will in no way shape or form put a dent on a small streamers in the long term. Currently Echo is the only one with huge inflated numbers, close to 20% fake viewers. At the same time as TeamLiquid is boasting 105% real viewers >.>
best part is asmon literally cant criticise one of the groups that are embedding because one of the companies he has some form of ownership over has heavily sponsored them
They 100% did it on purpose they made the video tiny and the chat HUGE. I even sent a message from the EMBED. Saying how they are embedding and it got instant deleted and then I was timed out for 30min and moments later perm banned. This was before asmon said anything. Why would they do that if they didnt know what they were doing was wrong and literally had mods ready to ban anyone that says anything.
1 they protected a known child predator and gave him a platform to hurt children and use it against them, then they start pushing NFT Crypto scams and now they have been using 3rd party sites to view bot and lie to sponsors because nobody watches them. Sad part is people still defend them its gross and pathetic. Your defending a org that not only knew what methodjosh was doing but worked to hide it and cover for him for years and now they are viewbotting to hurt other guilds and everyone trying to build a legit viewerbase. They have been doing this for years. Since BFA. They 100% did it on purpose they made the video tiny and the chat HUGE. I even sent a message from the EMBED. Saying how they are embedding and it got instant deleted and then I was timed out for 30min and moments later perm banned. This was before asmon said anything.
Yea, i called this out in the chat, but got roasted instantly...But you are 100% right. I love watching the mythic raid...but the amount of splits is insane. Although I do understand it, it's not very heatlhy for the game, imho.
Crazy to think world of Warcraft and StarCraft were like 👌 this close to being warhammer games. Haha when you look into the to universes you really can start to see the similarities haha How was age of Sigmar tho? Did you like it?
Couldn't Blizzard do an EU first and an NA first, and then just see which guild used the least actual time, and crown world first based on that? As is, it will never be a fair race.
@@ac833 That's a good point. I would almost be willing to not have the event until Blizzard starts doing global releases. I bet if we look at actual play time from when the guilds got access, the World First wins would be different, and I find that sad. I get that Blizzard aren't doing the event per se, but I find it strange that they don't do more to support it, as it must surely be in their best interest. Could it be possible to just have the top guilds playing on NA servers for the race I wonder.
The global release has been addressed by the developers numerous times. It is a roadblock to your regular raiders all to accommodate the race between the top 2 guilds in the world. The developers are right to never make that tradeoff.
History has proven time and time again that people prefer when WoW is easier. Since late BfA Mythic+ has been too hard for most players. Since Legion Raiding has been too frustrating and time consuming for most players. More difficulty is better for the Hardcore, but not the majority who are “Hardcore Casual”. BfA and Shadowlands had major issues with their expansion systems. But I think what really made people turn away from the game and made the community so toxic is just how hard and not fun the actual relevant content is. So far Dragonflight hasn’t fixed that problem but hopefully 10.2 is different.
I understand fully why blizzard would change the raid philosophy. Tuning the raids for 50 something people who are raiding at this level isnt a good idea on a business and just game design level
you can rly see how bad those RFW Guilds rly are, when there are people dying to heroic mechanics in those 100 splitruns, but this time without using thier Rotation Bots.
u are not accusing method of doing the embed stuuf directly, but u kinda are lol i do understand embed stuff, its a markenting thing, its only a drama for doomers and stuff
I dont think I like Preach anymore; he just sounds like a mouthpiece for the 1% of the player base. Mythic balance shouldn't be designed for world first race. if RWF dies, so be it.
I like Preach. I think he's coming at it from the viewpoint of making it a big event. Sure it's probably exciting to be part of these things and getting sponsors and stuff for big productions, but expecting Blizzard to balance their game to make that event as long as possible for a few people instead of fair and fun for the majority of the playerbase is silly. Also splits are terrible and is truly a first world problem.
@@Levinsbun I like him as a person it's just hard to find a way to relate to him when it's always about high end stuff when he talks about wow. I am a hyper casual player so maybe its not for me tho.
I don't see a channel using a website they own to get views as any more of an advantage than a channel which has the capital to hire staff, a venue, editors, commentators...
“Make up that 24 hours” you complain about rampant fans but say shit like this. Pathetic. Global is an issue. But conflating it to 24 hours and it “forcing” echo to rush if it’s a short race is such a stupid statement
In any other realm of competition this kind of advantage would get acknowledge, but for some reason here we have to pretend it isn’t real or it gets seen as shitting on NA players and being bias towards EU. If 24 hours isn’t an advantage what about 36? What about 48? For the people that pretend that multiple hours head start is literally 0 advantage, how many hours have to go by before it is? What is EU started first, then Asia, then NA, would that not matter at all? Of course it would, if blizzard announced NA was starting last there would be a riot
@@Deronimo4you realize the na servers are down for longer on patch day than the EU servers on patch day right? Once they find out what is wrong with patch implementation on NA they can easily apply the patch in EU. Also it's not 24 hours because EU timezone is generally 9 hours ahead of the timezone liquid raids in. I'm not saying there isn't a time advantage but it's certainly not 24 hours. For it to be 24 hours EU servers would need to be up at like 6 PM GMT on Wednesday. They are up way sooner than that
Preach, there is no 24 hour "head start" thay fallacious argument has been debunked numerous times now. I csnt believe you're resprting to it, the obvious bias here is telling
They 100% did it on purpose they made the video tiny and the chat HUGE. I even sent a message from the EMBED. Saying how they are embedding and it got instant deleted and then I was timed out for 30min and moments later perm banned. This was before asmon said anything. Why would they do that if they didnt know what they were doing was wrong and literally had mods ready to ban anyone that says anything.
They 100% did it on purpose they made the video tiny and the chat HUGE. I even sent a message from the EMBED. Saying how they are embedding and it got instant deleted and then I was timed out for 30min and moments later perm banned. This was before asmon said anything. Why would they do that if they didnt know what they were doing was wrong and literally had mods ready to ban anyone that says anything.
If you like Mike's shirt in this video, check out our Dragonflight Band Merch available now! preachgaming.com/shop/ . T Shirts and Hoodies for each of the flights.
They 100% did it on purpose they made the video tiny and the chat HUGE. I even sent a message from the EMBED. Saying how they are embedding and it got instant deleted and then I was timed out for 30min and moments later perm banned. This was before asmon said anything. Why would they do that if they didnt know what they were doing was wrong and literally had mods ready to ban anyone that says anything.
1 they protected a known child predator and gave him a platform to hurt children and use it against them, then they start pushing NFT Crypto scams and now they have been using 3rd party sites to view bot and lie to sponsors because nobody watches them. Sad part is people still defend them its gross and pathetic. Your defending a org that not only knew what methodjosh was doing but worked to hide it and cover for him for years and now they are viewbotting to hurt other guilds and everyone trying to build a legit viewerbase. They have been doing this for years. Since BFA. They 100% did it on purpose they made the video tiny and the chat HUGE. I even sent a message from the EMBED. Saying how they are embedding and it got instant deleted and then I was timed out for 30min and moments later perm banned. This was before asmon said anything.
TY for saying the truth its sad they are fucking the community over again and again. Atleast u have balls for doing the right thing and thats why I always like your videos from the very start when you made content on 40man raiding in vanilla. and history of it.
TY for saying the truth its sad they are fucking the community over again and again. Atleast u have balls for doing the right thing and thats why I always like your videos from the very start when you made content on 40man raiding in vanilla. and history of it. Preach deserves respect for staying true to his morals and not be biased based on money and friendship. Same with asmon. You know they were trying to cover this up they even had mods in the chat ahead of time to instant ban anyone that said anything. I got banned for saying they were using embeds from the actual embed before asmon even said anything. They have been doing this for years, since BFA and they do it for MDI too.
Liquid is 7/9 within 10mins of posting this video.
Unless the last 2 are ridiculous then it’s an easy win for them
Just dropping a comment to say enjoying the daily recap of the race/drama etc. I lost intrest in playing wow a long time ago and don't enjoy watching the race with all the crazy splits, gold loans etc, so listening to the recap in a 20min video is a good format for the hearing about the juicy parts.
I’m glad people are realising it’s not worth it: splits are crazy behaviour and not something to be encouraged
I'm sure most folks in method are decent, but everytime there is some new drama with them, this can't be a coincidence anymore.
No idea why people would still join that guild tbh...
This is barely drama lol not even a big deal when they own the websites
1 they protected a known child predator and gave him a platform to hurt children and use it against them, then they start pushing NFT Crypto scams and now they have been using 3rd party sites to view bot and lie to sponsors because nobody watches them. Sad part is people still defend them its gross and pathetic. Your defending a org that not only knew what methodjosh was doing but worked to hide it and cover for him for years and now they are viewbotting to hurt other guilds and everyone trying to build a legit viewerbase. They have been doing this for years. Since BFA. They 100% did it on purpose they made the video tiny and the chat HUGE. I even sent a message from the EMBED. Saying how they are embedding and it got instant deleted and then I was timed out for 30min and moments later perm banned. This was before asmon said anything.
They 100% did it on purpose they made the video tiny and the chat HUGE. I even sent a message from the EMBED. Saying how they are embedding and it got instant deleted and then I was timed out for 30min and moments later perm banned. This was before asmon said anything. Why would they do that if they didnt know what they were doing was wrong and literally had mods ready to ban anyone that says anything.
TY for saying the truth its sad they are fucking the community over again and again. Atleast u have balls for doing the right thing and thats why I always like your videos from the very start when you made content on 40man raiding in vanilla. and history of it. Preach deserves respect for staying true to his morals and not be biased based on money and friendship. Same with asmon. You know they were trying to cover this up they even had mods in the chat ahead of time to instant ban anyone that said anything. I got banned for saying they were using embeds from the actual embed before asmon even said anything. They have been doing this for years, since BFA and they do it for MDI too.
Wasn't Blizzard saying they were going to be moving away from Mythic being tuned for the top guilds in the world to make it more accessible? Wouldn't that in theory make for an easier raid for these top guilds?
Everything post-sepulcher has been easier.
Yes, and now the RWF has to adjust. The one thing Blizz could do to make it better is cut back on splits somehow, either by making them completely unnecessary or making them impossible or inefficient
@@darklortyonly way to make them unnecessary or inefficient is if Mythic is HC difficulty which no one wants.
Bingo
If so that is a good change, I like Preach been watching him since Ghost days but his mentality is utterly twisted due to his involvement. Mythic being doable for the normal raiding playerbase WITH EFFORT is something that must happen. Blizzard tuning for races decimated Mythic raid clears because nobody could do the damn thing leading to months of constant nerfs so the plebs could have a go. If it means the race is tiny so be it, that is a sign these players need something new to challenge themselves and should not expect the game to fuck everyone for their own benefit.
22.47 really loud audio pop.
Take Care Headphone users
Splits honestly make me lose all interest in WoWs RWF. I just want to watch boss profession, not days of farming heroic. It's insanely boring.
For what it's worth, both Echo and Liquid have spot on casters this time around. I default to rooting for Liquid just because I hang out in some of their streams more often than in Echo player streams, but I purely tune in to both events just for the casters because I love to watch all of them individually. Preach, AutomaticJak, Okaymage, Kalamazi, Naguura ..so many fun folks all in two mega stream events covering a gaming event is just a good time. I do agree splits are tedious to watch, but the casters really do the heavy lifting there and, for me, that's well worth it.
If these guilds are disappointed with the raid, it means blizz are doing it right, it's about time they stopped doing the raids for these 5 guilds, while mythic clearing raids keep dropping.
I mean its especially the case if its due to the amount of resources these guilds have. You can’t make any sort of MMO and then expect the people who have literal infinite gold, near infinite time to play, an endless pool of players to funnel gear from etc., and THEN make content that those people truly have to cut their teeth on. Its unrealistic to expect both of these things. Restricting the ability to do splits somehow would almost certainly impact the game negatively for people just trying to raid normally or even just lfg pug some bosses.
@@Darksoul9669 100%
hot take, Blizzard should release hard mythic and nerf it after two weeks for casual Mythic raiders.
except it only for these x guilds you act like no others guild clear in in a week or 2 - 3 4 and keep clearing it it just the first week/2weeks only the top can clear it....
@@basvanderwerff2725 well in my oppinion if you are planning to be 6/9 M in first two weeks you are not casual guild and in my oppinion even those guilds prefer to have some progress rather than clearing whole tier in 3-4 weeks and then just re-clear for half year. But is is just my assupmtions as I am in world 400-500 guild so clearing Mythic in first 4 weeks does not apply to me.
from a viewers perspective the splits need to die to make the race interesting again. If I tune into a stream and see them just doing splits I will immediately be gone again.
Not to mention there is no competition due to the release difference. I’ve never watched but now it definitely feels like no point to do so….
R2WF would be much cooler if it wasnt so corporate. im sorry but i dont care of these "pros" arent happy with the 2-3 days of mythic prog. is some regular guild came through and got the firsy clear it would be so much better.
I know what they mean, but it is kinda funny to hear the complaint being "we did an unreasonable amount of prep to scrounge for gear and then beat the boss too quickly". Like, my brother in christ, you chose to do heroic splits.
Blizz could consider doing some kind of contest mode for world first raiding to make the event an actual race. Why is exploiting the weekly loot lockout part of the world first race?
I feel like this whole blizzard needs to do something about the race to world first thing is just insane, this is not blizzards fault, look at the fucking ridiculous shit these guilds do now, they have teams and teams of people to finish the raid as fast as possible, the only reasonable solution that doesn't hurt 99.99999% of the player base is tournament realm, you get top 100 last tier and you qualify for the race to world first hosted on tournament servers. Could scale gear, do whatever you want.
They 100% did it on purpose they made the video tiny and the chat HUGE. I even sent a message from the EMBED. Saying how they are embedding and it got instant deleted and then I was timed out for 30min and moments later perm banned. This was before asmon said anything. Why would they do that if they didnt know what they were doing was wrong and literally had mods ready to ban anyone that says anything.
@@AcidBombYT think you’re talking to the wrong dude
@danielschultz96 it's a copy pasta
@@KC-py5vq ah okay
Even if tournament realm support for raiding was added, there’s 2 issues: 1. The raiders prefer progressing on their “real” characters. Fine maybe let’s ignore their opinion, then…2. There would just end up being 2 parallel races at the same time (live realm and tournament realm) and it’s almost certainly likely that the general playerbase, news publishers like wowhead, and sponsors/investors would deem the live realm as the more legitimate race. The live realm just has that mystical allure for the hyper competitive.
Pretty funny to hear Asmon calling out people crushing content creators
Splits are just not worth watching, real race is last 2, maybe 3 bosses so realistic a 2‐3 day event. Only way to make it interesting is if it was completely BLIND like FF14 ultimate, no PTR. With WoW level of production and established culture of RWF
Personally, given we live in times where people don't just play one game, not even just one MMO, it makes a lot of sense for Mythic to not be balanced around the 0.0000001% essentially just 3 Guilds. And I prefer that too.
The effort for splits is honestly just a personal choice at this time, it's not remotely fun to watch RWF, you just tune out until it's the day of prof of the last boss, it really takes away from the "world first" kills that other guilds got because in their eyes it doesn't count, only last boss does.
i like how eu was king of raids until liquid came around.
Liquid is definitely the better guild, if they didn't have to deal with so many set backs that are out of their hands, they would win almost every single race
Liquid is same rodster of Compexity Limit and they were around for years so no
5 days ago, this was a very different race. Echo was still wondering if they were wasting their life playing, meanwhile in 'murica
Waiting for the video on the "fake viewers" since Echo had around 50% of embeded viewers around there kill,
But i guess we won't hear anything about it :)
Think they had 116k in chat and 180k views
They 100% did it on purpose they made the video tiny and the chat HUGE. I even sent a message from the EMBED. Saying how they are embedding and it got instant deleted and then I was timed out for 30min and moments later perm banned. This was before asmon said anything. Why would they do that if they didnt know what they were doing was wrong and literally had mods ready to ban anyone that says anything.
I love mythic to be difficult, I love races going long (I did enjoy watching Jailer's raid for it's entirety). Nowadays I don't have time to get that cutting edge each tier nor to play wow, but I still understand what classes do and always learn boss mechanics before raid for world first to see what they are doing and it's really a blast for me. I hope this will never end man
The absolute best part is a big streamer pretending that a company during a release or event in any way shape or form has a impact on small streamers.
The single thing that hurts small streamers are big streamers.
There is a reason why some streamers move their streams to times where the big streamers is offline.
I´m assuming these split runs are just for feeding gear to specific caracters but how are they trading them over? Correct me if i´m wrong as i havent played wow in a long time but isent raid loot personal and unless u already got a higher ilvl peave of gear u cant trade it to another raid member so how are they trading the superior gear drops from alts over to the main caracters?
Looks like the progress have sorted itself out as of writing this 6 guilds are at 7/9 top 3 of them ofc being Liquid, Echo and Method in that order. Btw if i were to be intrested in watching these live are there live casted streams going on for these teams or are they putting that together after a kill to not give away strategys? If so where can i find these live casting streams.
The problem with the RWF is 2 fold. You either design it for the extreme top end which compromises the mode for everyone else, or you don't and it's shorter, which has pros and cons, but splits need to die in a fire somehow. Immediate turn off at least from me
Genuinely think blizzard needs to make something seperate entirely for RWF raiders something on the same lines as Ultimates in FFXIV
Splits are the entire reason I haven't even watched this race. I just can't care anymore now that Sloot has retired (the only person individually I watched).
Love to see it. Design the game for the player base not the top 0.00001.
mythic is not 0.00001%........
The race to world first guilds are..... which is what is being discussed...@@basvanderwerff2725
They were referring to RWF guilds, not mythic raiders.
Just like with Fextralife I view embedding as no better than view botting
In the end it is all about the GBP sco will recieve with inflating the viewcount .
Mike, would love for you to have a frank discussion about the RWF with Ion if you get the chance.
I think this tuning is better for the health of the game. Not only do many of these players have a straight mechanical advantage compared to the average player, but they are doing 4-8 weeks of raid progress in 2 days. Tuning around that curve is impossible.
For the drama I think that is on twitch to change the metric if they want. It would be dumb not to market yourself where and how you can.
JB had a clip where he lampooned that idea that players do not actually like races that are super quick which stands out to me given you said Aberrus was not memeroable which is funny since it was one of the more well banaced raids which led to a pretty balanced race. I would argue the worst raid was Vault given the that both Echo and Liquid were upset about the giga nerfs that came in to ensure raz was killed by before Christmas. Vault also was a nightmare of hot fixes and turret nerfs compared to Aberrus which was relatively was not riddled by the need to hotfixs or nerfs to the fights as the race went on. Then you have a situation during Sepulture in which the race was wildly not as fun and interesting to watch.
Warning for headphone users at 22:47
Heroic week was worse for the average player because of things around it like delayed lfr and delayed m+. The only way I want to go back to delayed mythic is if everything else comes out with heroic.
Also the idea they wont do splits just because mythic isnt out is wild. This is gaming in the 2020s
??? Heroic is so easy lmao
Agree. I hated having a wasted week of no m+.
Waking up at 3 and the splits is personal preference. The general player base doesn’t care lol
Asmon of all people saying somebody is screwing up other people with the algorithm..The horrible irony of that.
RWF was cool the first few times but it quickly became rather boring. Especially when it became so formulaic as in -> stuck at wall til reset, do more splits, wall topples easily. Honestly this is for the best. The game needs to be fun for the majority of players which aren’t as skilled as top world guilds. If the event takes a hit as a result of that, then that’s a hit worth taking as it benefits the majority.
Just give mythic raids a fixed Ilvl debuff. No need for splits.
Turns out Smolderon is about 100x harder than all the other Mythic bosses.
Maybe because it’s an Orange boss in an Orange arena, with Orange mechanics.
why do you have hair here but not in the wow video from 4 days ago i am confued
race to world first splits!
Splits are ruining these world first races
Is the race to world first about who's the best at the game? Or is it about who can leverage their audience the best to funnel them gear?
If Method is doing the embed browser shit that Fextralife does, I'm NEVER watching Method again. That shit is obnoxious.
What Method is doing is absolutely fraudulent, Preach.
There can’t make choices to help world 1st if it effects the rest of the player base. Either world first deal with it or quit. There is not a good solution here in my opinion.
Liquid had a lot of time waiting for bug fixes so it certainly takes some take off the advantage and there might be more to come, admittedly they can M+ in that time but I'm sure they'd rather have just raided.
They’ll still be ahead as they used the extra time they had ahead to farm gear, I think the ilvl gap is still pretty significant
If a boss doesn't die in the first reset then gear farming is always the right choice
Liquid claim a boss is bugged/unkillable at least once every tier, and in 99/100 cases it's not true and then Echo kills the "unkillable" boss. Just because they claim that happened doesn't mean it's true.
@@billymays9296 It was confirmed it was bugged and have been fixed and then it was killed.
@SatansRoyalBoner that "extra" time is very little that it's barely noticeable. It's just preach and echo making excuses
Global release time is the only way I'll care about this any more.
Fyrakk day one. that comment sure age like milk in dessert :D
audio spikes at 22:47
Honestly ive only been keeping up with it cause of your awesome ways of keeping us informed here on youtube. I dont have the time to watch twitch near as often and tuning in and just watching the team do splits is incredibly boring. The interactions with you and the other announcers save it in alot of ways but unless blizz changes it back to having heroic week I will probably only ever tune in near the end if I have the time.
So this is a first for me watching world first race for wow raid. I'm a noob so judge me. But this split thing to me seems wild. I have ff14 brain rot so ignore me. I'd just like to see prog of the hardest fight right off the bat rather than running the lower level difficulties a bunch of times to get to the hardest fight. Give players the agency to tackle it without this extra work? Make it harder and so much more different than the original fight. Like I said I have ff14 brain rot. I going to compare them only in the aspect one engages me more than the other. I'm open to seeing others opinions on this. Is it entertaining to see people run heroic over and over again before getting into mythic? I guess same could be said about seeing people dying over and over to the same stupid mechanic in TOP. Tho that moment of moving to a new mechanic in a phase just seems so much more engaging than running splits. This is a difference in design philosophy, know I get that. I'm just wondering if wow players would like a different approach to raids rather than the one they have now?
The Problem is that in WoW there is a ultimate difficulty that drops high Ilvl gear and is balanced around having "full savage gear" until the endboss who requires ultimate gear. Imagine FF14 players get into a new raid, where a new normal/savage/ultimate tier opens up at the same time and you need savage gear to do ultimate. Thats why Split exists , because in the RWF you dont have organic time to gear for the Ultimate Bosses so you splitraid. If you dont splitraid you are undergeared for the final boss.
Many regular guilds rely on heroic gear to step foot and progress into mythic. Suppose you try to prevent splitting from ever happening (ex. Heroic gear only impacting heroic mode) and world first guilds push mythic from day 1, they’ll still finish the whole raid eventually. What about your average guild who can’t kill a single mythic boss without help from heroic gear?
In general, most (if not all) “solutions” to throttle the top 0.1% end up punishing significant portions of the playerbase.
People in FF14 do splits now too. Degen gamers will do anything for a competitive advantage.
@@guffelsnow? Ff14 statics have been splitting since stormblood.
@@GerzhusTVFFXIV still has gear scaling to help people get clears later, it's just not strictly necessary to get the clear week 1 if you're skilled enough.
The thing is, Sco was the best streamer for WoW, but he's gone now, so people either want asmon or they float
The problem in the race is that everyone blasts through everything but the last boss or two on day 1 of mythic. Then, the players and the viewers stare at the same thing day after day and people start checking out. If it is nothing but Fyraak for the next two weeks, it will be the opposite problem: there will be a nerf and whoever happens to pull the boss next wins....which is definitely the worst case scenario. (Raz) No perfect answers as always because everyone wants different things and simply making a wall "for more exposure" is equally silly as having everything fall over in 2 days
Returning the Heroic week would be good for the race but absolutely terrible for every player outside of the race, so they should not go back
Glad youre back buddy
Maybe it's a bit callous, especially with what channel this is, I'm fine if Blizzard is making Mythic actually approachable to more of the playerbase. It just doesn't make sense to make content that an insignificant percentage of the playerbase ever experiences outside of streams. It's just a waste of development resources that could be used for the betterment of the rest of the playerbase. It'd suck to lose the RWF, but I'd be fine with it for the overall health of the game.
Since when was the “head start” 24 hours? Resets are 12 hours apart and NA always gets extended maintenance so it’s less than that even
Whats the addon called?
When will Echo removing their embeds on their site? They have multiple on the same site just farming viewers. I guess since you had to make such a heart felt video about the toxic behaviour of embedding streams. You must have brought it up to the org that pay for your time. It must be, I can't fantom the hypocrisy otherwise.
On a more serious note. How is this not 100% twitch being a bad platform? They provide the embedding as a service. Both as a way to fully show your stream on external sites. But also use it as a sidebar plugin to show as supplement to your main content.
Method seems to have been using it in a very much correct way. Where they own sites that provide wow content. The sites are still mainly the content you go to the page to view. They just have tier steam on which might interest the audience. Which in return can help them provide the website for free. The preach take would be warranted and not just virtue signaling if they had hidden elements on sites. That would be using embeds only for the purpose of faking views.
I have thought of you as one of the grown up "influencers" but this take is feels like a vendetta or something. The take from Asmongold is very "company" bad. But failing to remember that there is only one thing that kills smaller streamers and that is bigger streamers just vacuuming all the viewers from a section when they go online. A company "gaining" algo points because they have sites related to what they stream during a event will in no way shape or form put a dent on a small streamers in the long term.
Currently Echo is the only one with huge inflated numbers, close to 20% fake viewers. At the same time as TeamLiquid is boasting 105% real viewers >.>
best part is asmon literally cant criticise one of the groups that are embedding because one of the companies he has some form of ownership over has heavily sponsored them
These videos being 24 hours behind the real world really ignores the point of the content.
Very low mic volume
How method has fallen
They 100% did it on purpose they made the video tiny and the chat HUGE. I even sent a message from the EMBED. Saying how they are embedding and it got instant deleted and then I was timed out for 30min and moments later perm banned. This was before asmon said anything. Why would they do that if they didnt know what they were doing was wrong and literally had mods ready to ban anyone that says anything.
1 they protected a known child predator and gave him a platform to hurt children and use it against them, then they start pushing NFT Crypto scams and now they have been using 3rd party sites to view bot and lie to sponsors because nobody watches them. Sad part is people still defend them its gross and pathetic. Your defending a org that not only knew what methodjosh was doing but worked to hide it and cover for him for years and now they are viewbotting to hurt other guilds and everyone trying to build a legit viewerbase. They have been doing this for years. Since BFA. They 100% did it on purpose they made the video tiny and the chat HUGE. I even sent a message from the EMBED. Saying how they are embedding and it got instant deleted and then I was timed out for 30min and moments later perm banned. This was before asmon said anything.
According to Maximum this raid looked to be the best raid tier since legion, really starting to doubt that😅
The duration of the race doesn’t determine the overall quality of the raid
@@ianhorne9594 hey let him think that 2 weeks of spilts is what defines the best tier
Bring back heroic week
rwf is so boring these days. 90% is watching split runs and maybe 1 day one might see an actual myth boss.
Yea, i called this out in the chat, but got roasted instantly...But you are 100% right. I love watching the mythic raid...but the amount of splits is insane. Although I do understand it, it's not very heatlhy for the game, imho.
Crazy to think world of Warcraft and StarCraft were like 👌 this close to being warhammer games. Haha when you look into the to universes you really can start to see the similarities haha
How was age of Sigmar tho? Did you like it?
Make 20-25 boss raids. Each with unique mechanics that have never been seen before for every raid that comes out.
Disable gear trading for the first week of any season?
Couldn't Blizzard do an EU first and an NA first, and then just see which guild used the least actual time, and crown world first based on that? As is, it will never be a fair race.
@@ac833 That's a good point. I would almost be willing to not have the event until Blizzard starts doing global releases. I bet if we look at actual play time from when the guilds got access, the World First wins would be different, and I find that sad. I get that Blizzard aren't doing the event per se, but I find it strange that they don't do more to support it, as it must surely be in their best interest. Could it be possible to just have the top guilds playing on NA servers for the race I wonder.
@@ac833 Yeah, something like that is clearly doable, quite frustrating that they just don't implement a solution.
Just release at the same time everywhere. It's that simple. If hardcore people want to login at 3am, let them.
@@darklortychanging the reset for every player is dumb. Time zones exist. Who want their reset in the middle of playing.
The global release has been addressed by the developers numerous times. It is a roadblock to your regular raiders all to accommodate the race between the top 2 guilds in the world. The developers are right to never make that tradeoff.
History has proven time and time again that people prefer when WoW is easier.
Since late BfA Mythic+ has been too hard for most players. Since Legion Raiding has been too frustrating and time consuming for most players.
More difficulty is better for the Hardcore, but not the majority who are “Hardcore Casual”.
BfA and Shadowlands had major issues with their expansion systems. But I think what really made people turn away from the game and made the community so toxic is just how hard and not fun the actual relevant content is. So far Dragonflight hasn’t fixed that problem but hopefully 10.2 is different.
I understand fully why blizzard would change the raid philosophy. Tuning the raids for 50 something people who are raiding at this level isnt a good idea on a business and just game design level
that just for the first kill.......
Just watch Mike quit casting the RTWF and then Blizzard immediately fixes it.
Lol, like what happened with most of WoW and the WW announcement
Boo-boo the game is not catering to my elitist mentality.
you can rly see how bad those RFW Guilds rly are, when there are people dying to heroic mechanics in those 100 splitruns, but this time without using thier Rotation Bots.
I feel like Smoldy and tyndral looking way harder than mike appreciated, am i wrong?
Nobody gives a shit about world 1st, years wasted arms racing against these 1% has damaged the game smh, boo hoo for them.
I mean, if thats there homepoage , why not promote the channel
u are not accusing method of doing the embed stuuf directly, but u kinda are lol
i do understand embed stuff, its a markenting thing, its only a drama for doomers and stuff
I dont think I like Preach anymore; he just sounds like a mouthpiece for the 1% of the player base. Mythic balance shouldn't be designed for world first race. if RWF dies, so be it.
I like Preach. I think he's coming at it from the viewpoint of making it a big event. Sure it's probably exciting to be part of these things and getting sponsors and stuff for big productions, but expecting Blizzard to balance their game to make that event as long as possible for a few people instead of fair and fun for the majority of the playerbase is silly. Also splits are terrible and is truly a first world problem.
@@Levinsbun I like him as a person it's just hard to find a way to relate to him when it's always about high end stuff when he talks about wow. I am a hyper casual player so maybe its not for me tho.
I am eager for more EU whining and tears.
no one cares if the game is easier for the top 0.5%. No one gives a crap. Esports in WoW is a joke.
First?
I don't see a channel using a website they own to get views as any more of an advantage than a channel which has the capital to hire staff, a venue, editors, commentators...
“Make up that 24 hours” you complain about rampant fans but say shit like this. Pathetic. Global is an issue. But conflating it to 24 hours and it “forcing” echo to rush if it’s a short race is such a stupid statement
Did Liquid not get a head start to farm gear? Go look at the ilvl difference and tell me that’s not an advantage.
I mean its the truth
What do you want? Him to not aknowledge facts?
Did Liquid get access to splits 24hours before Echo?
Answer: Yes
Wtf are you talking about
In any other realm of competition this kind of advantage would get acknowledge, but for some reason here we have to pretend it isn’t real or it gets seen as shitting on NA players and being bias towards EU.
If 24 hours isn’t an advantage what about 36? What about 48? For the people that pretend that multiple hours head start is literally 0 advantage, how many hours have to go by before it is? What is EU started first, then Asia, then NA, would that not matter at all? Of course it would, if blizzard announced NA was starting last there would be a riot
@@Deronimo4you realize the na servers are down for longer on patch day than the EU servers on patch day right? Once they find out what is wrong with patch implementation on NA they can easily apply the patch in EU. Also it's not 24 hours because EU timezone is generally 9 hours ahead of the timezone liquid raids in.
I'm not saying there isn't a time advantage but it's certainly not 24 hours. For it to be 24 hours EU servers would need to be up at like 6 PM GMT on Wednesday. They are up way sooner than that
The bias for echo is so apparent here LOL
Preach, there is no 24 hour "head start" thay fallacious argument has been debunked numerous times now. I csnt believe you're resprting to it, the obvious bias here is telling
imagine thinking you can debunk something as factual as the passage of time
Rofl that wasted money on hair transplant.
They 100% did it on purpose they made the video tiny and the chat HUGE. I even sent a message from the EMBED. Saying how they are embedding and it got instant deleted and then I was timed out for 30min and moments later perm banned. This was before asmon said anything. Why would they do that if they didnt know what they were doing was wrong and literally had mods ready to ban anyone that says anything.
They 100% did it on purpose they made the video tiny and the chat HUGE. I even sent a message from the EMBED. Saying how they are embedding and it got instant deleted and then I was timed out for 30min and moments later perm banned. This was before asmon said anything. Why would they do that if they didnt know what they were doing was wrong and literally had mods ready to ban anyone that says anything.
Baffled people are noticing just now, Sco has been embedding himself on wago ever since he bough the site.