It seems to me that antihero isn't sufficient for Penguin because it implies that the character is morally imperfect but doesn't get across the fact that s/he is on balance, bad by the lights of the itended audience. Walter White is net-bad, as far as I'm concerned. He's not just an anti-hero. He's actively evil, even if we can understand how he got there. To me, an antihero is the inverse of this: someone who is a net good, but lacks the characteristics that would identify him unambiguously as such.
@icowrich I see where you're coming from here, (and this is a point I probably should of included in the video) but to me An anti-hero can be anywhere from doing a net good, to being actually genuinely evil.
i think there's probably more utility to mine out of this idea than you give it credit for. walter white is an antihero but i think it's also fair to call him a villain protagonist- the story hinges on his amoral villainy in a way that isn't so for another antihero like don draper. for a character like light yagami, i think "villain protagonist" is probably more apt than "antihero"- it speaks to his unrepentant evil, & implies a reversal of traditional morality in the perspective of the story; i think it's very fair to call L a "hero-antagonist"
I suppose you could argue that the point of saying "villain protagonist" is to emphasize that the character you're seeing is a protagonist in narrative role only, while being directly compared to the antagonist in terms of morality. However, the reason that term is redundant is precisely because the term "anti-hero" isn't a moral denomination; it is a narrative denomination. An anti-hero could be relatively close to the hero in morality - only have some "questionable" characteristics - or they could be much closer to the villain; with the only unquestionable part of their anti-hero status is that they aren't the villain narratively. In either case, they're still an anti-hero; and by extension, so are Walter White and the Penguin. "Villain protagonist" doesn't really add anything to that; it only takes away from the moral ambiguity of the anti-hero that invites you to actually think about what sets them apart from the hero and villain alike.
This channel is my new favourite. Thanks for recommending, RUclips!
My favourite classic comic book villain is Society
Mr society's first appearance was in democratective comics #41
she pro on my tag till i ist
It seems to me that antihero isn't sufficient for Penguin because it implies that the character is morally imperfect but doesn't get across the fact that s/he is on balance, bad by the lights of the itended audience. Walter White is net-bad, as far as I'm concerned. He's not just an anti-hero. He's actively evil, even if we can understand how he got there. To me, an antihero is the inverse of this: someone who is a net good, but lacks the characteristics that would identify him unambiguously as such.
@icowrich I see where you're coming from here, (and this is a point I probably should of included in the video) but to me An anti-hero can be anywhere from doing a net good, to being actually genuinely evil.
Counter-argument: Venom is a classic anti-hero, but he still eats people until the story curbs him into co-operating with Spiderman.
Bet this guy would be the villain protag in a lecture hall
I like this walt character. Please keep him in your lore!
The skyler scene 👌
It's been weeks and I can't shake the penguin accent, it aint WOIKIN Vik.
🐧
i think there's probably more utility to mine out of this idea than you give it credit for. walter white is an antihero but i think it's also fair to call him a villain protagonist- the story hinges on his amoral villainy in a way that isn't so for another antihero like don draper. for a character like light yagami, i think "villain protagonist" is probably more apt than "antihero"- it speaks to his unrepentant evil, & implies a reversal of traditional morality in the perspective of the story; i think it's very fair to call L a "hero-antagonist"
I suppose you could argue that the point of saying "villain protagonist" is to emphasize that the character you're seeing is a protagonist in narrative role only, while being directly compared to the antagonist in terms of morality.
However, the reason that term is redundant is precisely because the term "anti-hero" isn't a moral denomination; it is a narrative denomination. An anti-hero could be relatively close to the hero in morality - only have some "questionable" characteristics - or they could be much closer to the villain; with the only unquestionable part of their anti-hero status is that they aren't the villain narratively. In either case, they're still an anti-hero; and by extension, so are Walter White and the Penguin.
"Villain protagonist" doesn't really add anything to that; it only takes away from the moral ambiguity of the anti-hero that invites you to actually think about what sets them apart from the hero and villain alike.
bro pre-ordered a comment
Facts
@@GhostRider1X1 Daily reminder not to pre-order video games.