These changes would be hot. Range is definitely what holds Wii Fit Trainer back. So hard to contest things with these hitboxes. Your ideas are pretty sensible and not over the top too!
It's interesting to see how many of these are pretty similar changes to what we ended up going with in Smash Rebuffed's WFT way back in the Smash 4 days where mods were way more popular. Jab1, essentially identical, unifying the hitboxes to frame 4, adding the extra hitboxes to the leg, and we had made the foot ones far larger so that only two of them covered the whole leg, but pushed them back into the trainer so that the effective range was only slightly better, but interior coverage became way more reliable. I had a couple times in Smash 4 where Captain Falcon in particular could stand right in the middle of the foot hitbox and punish you for the move whiffing. It was pretty dumb. Jab3 was a cursed move however, it felt like nearly every change we tried it was still really really bad at grounding shorties. We even tried giving Jab1 and 2 a semispike angle to reflect what we saw in the Smash Ultimate trailers at the time and it did a lot of good but it was straight up cursed man. Still, way better than vanilla WFT in terms of reliability so it was a huge win. Uptilt was a change that can't really be made on ult's wft now because of the animation change, we essentially just made it frame 4, and cut down on endlag so the trainer's arm would cause the hitbox to interpolate from the floor to above them, and cut way down on endlag to turn it into a formidible combo starter and an integral tool for handling shorties. We didn't go the route of making the arm intangible however, since having that fast, noncommital combo starter that swept from the floor upwards was really, really strong. Shorties were way easier after that, let me tell ya. Ftilt, we had that frontwards hitbox as well, and ended up calling it the "Kirby bopper". We pretty much lined it up to the same height and range as Jab1's Kirby bopper but left it out the whole time so it'd just be a consistent range that would hit players. We paid careful attention to letting it still be crouched as a weakness on the front. On the back, we did try your change before but it just wasn't very reliable as a move for it, so we switched to 3 hitboxes on the back of them from the floor up, matching the range their foot's at with reasonable amounts of disjoint to make it very reliable, and easy to time a shield on without having to know that the foot's going to be swinging for a few frames and all of that. Didn't make a major difference balance wise besides punishing players inside WFT overall and getting shorties easier. Nearly every regular move you can do outranges it even still (especially after all the hitbox buffs we gave every character) Dtilt I've always felt was disappointing. One of the biggest things was that back in Smash 4, they'd already fully rolled out by frame 7 of the animation iirc but it hit on frame 10, making it slow and reactable as hell. We also made the hitboxes go out further than WFT's hurtboxes and made the move knock players away from the trainer for good spacing. After that, it was a great move between the Uptilt and Ftilt buffs we had. Wii Fit's aerials despite being some of the character's best moves needed some huge changes though. Fair's hitboxes were one of our biggest and most deliberated changes for the character. We ended up making a big line of 5 hitboxes from arm to foot, the crotch one being really special because it had the front side's angle and it was close enough to the backside to make a huge, really cool header cancel mindgame where you could cover high or low recoveries with the ball on a whim if you were very, very precise. So pretty much you got 3 higher hitboxes to play with, and two spike ones in the legs. We didn't see a problem with it since all of the interior ones didn't really come out of the hurtbox that far so it only affected the ball and any players inside you. It became easily the keystone move of the entire moveset with a ton of things to practice and get good with. Bair we just threw out the whole thing and started over. We only used 3 hitboxes, with the tip being strongest, and the one in WFT's chest being weakest, left it for 2 frames, then had late hitboxes that were the same size but much weaker. It behaved a lot better than before and for some reason, hitstun and angles somehow provided a weak bair to upsmash setup that I could never figure out how to pull off in training mode haha. Our hitstun was higher than vanilla though, so that contributed a lot. Uair we actually ended up nerfing the disjoint but provided a lot of lower coverage to land with to compensate. It wasn't a big nerf but we decided a big disjoint in the air was pretty unbalanced after all of our other buffs and retooled it. It was still really good and had some interesting uses while falling onto opponents. With Dair, we didn't really change much other than make the hitboxes spherical and similarly placed to Falcon and sped it up a ton. It worked out really well. The smashes in general we made the same exact hitbox edits to pretty much. Dsmash we actually closed in with a middle hitbox. All in all I think for a vanilla balance you did a great job, definitely make sure Ftilt behaves well on the back side though, the swinging foot ide never worked as well as I wanted it to with 4's animation
Oh wow I didn't know this was a thing, would have loved to try it back in smash 4! Also imo dtilt is kinda underrated in Ultimate; it deals heavy damage for a tilt, two frames, pushes away shielding opponents to make it safer on shield, and acts as a low profile. I often opt for dtilt over ftilt in many cases nowadays because it's just a lot more consistent as a punish option since it doesn't have any blindspot issues. Also yeah jab combo is kinda a mess as a whole, but after the buffs to both jab 1 and 3 it's pretty much just jab 2 holding it back from being almost 100% consistent.
Haha, the mod isn't *entirely* dead yet, and as soon as Ultimate modding is safe for online play we'll be back for more moveset shenanigans Dtilt definitely has its uses, primarily that big chunk of damage but it still had a ton of issues, especially the hitbox placement compared to the hurtboxes on the legs being t h i c c I just thought it was really interesting how in a vacuum a lot of the changes were really really similar
Awesome video as always. Maybe it's just me though but I don't really want her hitboxes to be that good, I like it as a gimmick. However, some moves can certainly be improved without changing the fact she has weird hitboxes. Especially the change for f-tilt has to be implemented, I read the smash 4 one was actually better. Looking forward to the next video!
I've been experimenting with WFT's hitbox placements myself on Smashboards, and I found myself nodding in agreement with pretty much every changes you've made. Personally I think FAir could do with a hitbox on WFT's other foot as well, since she makes a stomping motion with her left leg that looks forceful enough to do damage. That way she has a quick attack against opponents below her if she cannot use DAir in time. Her UpSmash might also work with a wider horizontal hitbox that is placed onto her feet just before WFT completes the Dancer pose, akin to Marth/Lucina's UpSmash move, but less exaggerated. Small changes to her frame data and positioning may also give WFT a bigger advantage, such as having WFT stand forward instead of backwards during Jab 3, thrusting forward a little when using DTilt, and having FAir and NAir activate slightly earlier. Granted I'm no expert in balance, so take what I post with a grain of salt, but nevertheless I thoroughly enjoyed watching your videos and how you play as WFT.
I like that stomping hitbox idea on her forward aerial. Also what do you mean by standing forward during jab 3 instead of backwards? She's forwards as far as I can tell.
@@k-leb4671 Her Jab 3 when she lunges makes her stand back in position with her left foot that is behind her, instead of her other foot that is in front of her, which would make her stand closer to her opponent instead of away.
Imo the Forward Air should also have a hitbox on the other foot based off of the animation that Wii Fit does. It would help it hit grounded fighters since I always found it weird whenever I used it against one and it didn't hit
1:06 Wait, I am very confused here. How are you counting overlapping hitboxes? I'm not seeing any pattern to the numbers. I definitely don't understand the hitbox visuals in this game.
I agree with all these changes except for Up Smash. The hitbox on the knee makes her unbalanced and favors the right side. But the other changes make so much sense, don't know why they aren't in the game already
Yeah that's understandable, although it's pretty much the same principle as fsmash. The move itself is already slightly unbalanced to begin with anyway, but it probably would make it kind of annoying to keep track of yes
Hi, i'm here cuz a Wii fit who can't play neutral just killed me with a forward smash that hit air. Fuck that hitbox lol. fucking swordie range on that shit.
She is powerful as fuck. You just have to use the proper moves. Forward tilt is so fucking fast and powerful. Your hitboxes are making it broken. Your changes are only for people who are ass at the game.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Please. Nintendo, listen to this man!
These changes would be hot. Range is definitely what holds Wii Fit Trainer back. So hard to contest things with these hitboxes. Your ideas are pretty sensible and not over the top too!
Can't tell you how many fsmashes I've whiffed on Jigglypuff and Squirtle because of the nonsense hitbox.
The f-tilts are even more infuriating on low profile chracters
It's interesting to see how many of these are pretty similar changes to what we ended up going with in Smash Rebuffed's WFT way back in the Smash 4 days where mods were way more popular.
Jab1, essentially identical, unifying the hitboxes to frame 4, adding the extra hitboxes to the leg, and we had made the foot ones far larger so that only two of them covered the whole leg, but pushed them back into the trainer so that the effective range was only slightly better, but interior coverage became way more reliable. I had a couple times in Smash 4 where Captain Falcon in particular could stand right in the middle of the foot hitbox and punish you for the move whiffing. It was pretty dumb.
Jab3 was a cursed move however, it felt like nearly every change we tried it was still really really bad at grounding shorties. We even tried giving Jab1 and 2 a semispike angle to reflect what we saw in the Smash Ultimate trailers at the time and it did a lot of good but it was straight up cursed man. Still, way better than vanilla WFT in terms of reliability so it was a huge win.
Uptilt was a change that can't really be made on ult's wft now because of the animation change, we essentially just made it frame 4, and cut down on endlag so the trainer's arm would cause the hitbox to interpolate from the floor to above them, and cut way down on endlag to turn it into a formidible combo starter and an integral tool for handling shorties. We didn't go the route of making the arm intangible however, since having that fast, noncommital combo starter that swept from the floor upwards was really, really strong. Shorties were way easier after that, let me tell ya.
Ftilt, we had that frontwards hitbox as well, and ended up calling it the "Kirby bopper". We pretty much lined it up to the same height and range as Jab1's Kirby bopper but left it out the whole time so it'd just be a consistent range that would hit players. We paid careful attention to letting it still be crouched as a weakness on the front. On the back, we did try your change before but it just wasn't very reliable as a move for it, so we switched to 3 hitboxes on the back of them from the floor up, matching the range their foot's at with reasonable amounts of disjoint to make it very reliable, and easy to time a shield on without having to know that the foot's going to be swinging for a few frames and all of that. Didn't make a major difference balance wise besides punishing players inside WFT overall and getting shorties easier. Nearly every regular move you can do outranges it even still (especially after all the hitbox buffs we gave every character)
Dtilt I've always felt was disappointing. One of the biggest things was that back in Smash 4, they'd already fully rolled out by frame 7 of the animation iirc but it hit on frame 10, making it slow and reactable as hell. We also made the hitboxes go out further than WFT's hurtboxes and made the move knock players away from the trainer for good spacing. After that, it was a great move between the Uptilt and Ftilt buffs we had.
Wii Fit's aerials despite being some of the character's best moves needed some huge changes though. Fair's hitboxes were one of our biggest and most deliberated changes for the character. We ended up making a big line of 5 hitboxes from arm to foot, the crotch one being really special because it had the front side's angle and it was close enough to the backside to make a huge, really cool header cancel mindgame where you could cover high or low recoveries with the ball on a whim if you were very, very precise. So pretty much you got 3 higher hitboxes to play with, and two spike ones in the legs. We didn't see a problem with it since all of the interior ones didn't really come out of the hurtbox that far so it only affected the ball and any players inside you. It became easily the keystone move of the entire moveset with a ton of things to practice and get good with.
Bair we just threw out the whole thing and started over. We only used 3 hitboxes, with the tip being strongest, and the one in WFT's chest being weakest, left it for 2 frames, then had late hitboxes that were the same size but much weaker. It behaved a lot better than before and for some reason, hitstun and angles somehow provided a weak bair to upsmash setup that I could never figure out how to pull off in training mode haha. Our hitstun was higher than vanilla though, so that contributed a lot.
Uair we actually ended up nerfing the disjoint but provided a lot of lower coverage to land with to compensate. It wasn't a big nerf but we decided a big disjoint in the air was pretty unbalanced after all of our other buffs and retooled it. It was still really good and had some interesting uses while falling onto opponents.
With Dair, we didn't really change much other than make the hitboxes spherical and similarly placed to Falcon and sped it up a ton. It worked out really well.
The smashes in general we made the same exact hitbox edits to pretty much. Dsmash we actually closed in with a middle hitbox.
All in all I think for a vanilla balance you did a great job, definitely make sure Ftilt behaves well on the back side though, the swinging foot ide never worked as well as I wanted it to with 4's animation
Oh wow I didn't know this was a thing, would have loved to try it back in smash 4!
Also imo dtilt is kinda underrated in Ultimate; it deals heavy damage for a tilt, two frames, pushes away shielding opponents to make it safer on shield, and acts as a low profile. I often opt for dtilt over ftilt in many cases nowadays because it's just a lot more consistent as a punish option since it doesn't have any blindspot issues.
Also yeah jab combo is kinda a mess as a whole, but after the buffs to both jab 1 and 3 it's pretty much just jab 2 holding it back from being almost 100% consistent.
Haha, the mod isn't *entirely* dead yet, and as soon as Ultimate modding is safe for online play we'll be back for more moveset shenanigans
Dtilt definitely has its uses, primarily that big chunk of damage but it still had a ton of issues, especially the hitbox placement compared to the hurtboxes on the legs being t h i c c
I just thought it was really interesting how in a vacuum a lot of the changes were really really similar
Awesome video as always. Maybe it's just me though but I don't really want her hitboxes to be that good, I like it as a gimmick. However, some moves can certainly be improved without changing the fact she has weird hitboxes. Especially the change for f-tilt has to be implemented, I read the smash 4 one was actually better. Looking forward to the next video!
There's something very meditative about watching Wii Fit Trainer's animations looping in slow-motion.
I never even considered the FSmash or USmash changes, those would be amazing. The Ftilt change has to happen though ugh
I've been experimenting with WFT's hitbox placements myself on Smashboards, and I found myself nodding in agreement with pretty much every changes you've made.
Personally I think FAir could do with a hitbox on WFT's other foot as well, since she makes a stomping motion with her left leg that looks forceful enough to do damage. That way she has a quick attack against opponents below her if she cannot use DAir in time.
Her UpSmash might also work with a wider horizontal hitbox that is placed onto her feet just before WFT completes the Dancer pose, akin to Marth/Lucina's UpSmash move, but less exaggerated.
Small changes to her frame data and positioning may also give WFT a bigger advantage, such as having WFT stand forward instead of backwards during Jab 3, thrusting forward a little when using DTilt, and having FAir and NAir activate slightly earlier.
Granted I'm no expert in balance, so take what I post with a grain of salt, but nevertheless I thoroughly enjoyed watching your videos and how you play as WFT.
I like that stomping hitbox idea on her forward aerial.
Also what do you mean by standing forward during jab 3 instead of backwards? She's forwards as far as I can tell.
@@k-leb4671 Her Jab 3 when she lunges makes her stand back in position with her left foot that is behind her, instead of her other foot that is in front of her, which would make her stand closer to her opponent instead of away.
Wiifit forward tilt has an amazing hitbox tho!
Now if Only Pit could get such hit box buffs like this
Imo the Forward Air should also have a hitbox on the other foot based off of the animation that Wii Fit does. It would help it hit grounded fighters since I always found it weird whenever I used it against one and it didn't hit
OK am not alone who think her dash grab is a joke of a move thx god.
Let's all send this video to Nintendo, maybe there's a chance!!!
These would be so good! The only kinda concern I have is that some soccer ball cancels won't work the same as they used to
1:06
Wait, I am very confused here. How are you counting overlapping hitboxes? I'm not seeing any pattern to the numbers. I definitely don't understand the hitbox visuals in this game.
I agree with all these changes except for Up Smash. The hitbox on the knee makes her unbalanced and favors the right side. But the other changes make so much sense, don't know why they aren't in the game already
Yeah that's understandable, although it's pretty much the same principle as fsmash. The move itself is already slightly unbalanced to begin with anyway, but it probably would make it kind of annoying to keep track of yes
I kinda like a little bit of asymmetry. It means positioning with up-smash is a tad more important.
None of this will ever happen but it’s cool to think of ideas lol
If Wii fit Trainer got these changes i would cry lmao.
Darel Linares of joy or sadness
Hate it when forward smash doesn't hit Pichu or Squirtle when they are bury. This vid fix it all. :)
Down smash
@@WrecklezzENT or dtilt, should kill Pichu or Squirtle at about 60% on ledge
With deep breathing of course
1:54 invisible hitbox
Hi, i'm here cuz a Wii fit who can't play neutral just killed me with a forward smash that hit air.
Fuck that hitbox lol. fucking swordie range on that shit.
WiiFit isn't good (MidTier-ish) so eh
Also, 0:11: Ha, nice, she has an ass hitbox
If wii fit isn't good then why wouldn't the character deserve some hitbox buffs?
@@ideallyinvy Not sayin she wouldn't, i love her. It's just her hitboxes are hilariously janky 10/10
I will always main WFT no matter what
y e s
She is powerful as fuck. You just have to use the proper moves. Forward tilt is so fucking fast and powerful. Your hitboxes are making it broken. Your changes are only for people who are ass at the game.
This tbh
Wii fit is already nasty stop this
Highly agree
Noo Wii fit needs this to murder the people who replaced her