Any answer from that company is now tainted by their gaslighting their customers and changing their website while scrubbing wayback machine to make everyone else look crazy.
@@dosdontWe really are. I always got Apple vibes but more insidious and am not happy at all. I'm also not a hater, I appreciate how their printer pushed the bar and others had to try and meet it.
They are a chinese company. The subscription would allow them to sell the printers cheaper to counteract the tariff and make up the revenue via subscription fees not subject to tariff. This is about control too. The CCP can brick all these printers remotely or use them to get on your network. Prusa is european. They actually enforce consumer rights there and can't steal your prints for themselves. IP theft is ingrained in chinese culture, they don't respect it in any way. For buying, look at printers not made by the CCP. Especially if you are investing in a business that cannot risk losses from bricked printers. Safeguard yourself. Don't let world wide depression and war brick your printing business. As consumers, we can actually make a difference by choosing to avoid chinese products whenever possible. We do not have to wait for a billionaire to do it for us.
It’s unfortunate you skipped the second paragraph of 7a, because it speaks volumes about Bambu Lab’s thought process. It basically says that they do not trust their customers and third party developers, even those that comply with Bambu’s guidelines, not being a bad faith actor. They do not trust us to know what is best for our own flows, hardware and networks. All of which can be easily solved by implementing an API ToS, session management control and limiting access to those who violate the terms. The arrogance of this company to declare that industry standard authorization, authentication and API management is not good enough for them, while at the same time implementing a piece of s*t software that was hacked in under 24h, is dumbfounding.
How about they simply can stop all together with this non-sense. Not only is making a product dependent on a vendor service illegal in the EU it is useless. They can offer a cloud solution, no issue there. Let the customer decide for themselves if it provides value or not. But that is not what they are doing. They are gatekeeping the machine.
Yep, they could have deployed known, secure liberties quickly and easily that are widely used. Instead they developed inhouse, some of the worse, incompetent "security" code I have ever seen. The kicker is they still gaslight us with claims this is all about make the printers secure.
The fact that they removed content from their website and then gaslighted their customer base is enough for me to never give them another dollar. Super shady.
2 little 2 late. Bambu has shown their true colors (and most likely underestimated the backlash); they care about their business (not their users). It is is called enshittification. I was considering a PS1, but I will stay with Prusa: a Prusa Core One it is.
This whole thing was nothing more than PR blunder, which was latched onto by RUclipsrs wanting to post clickbait videos. No offense to this channel, and I appreciate the host working to clear this up.
If it looks like a Duck, swims like a Duck and quacks like a Duck, it's probably a Duck. Far too often we've seen 'security' used as an excuse for anti-consumer practices. The promise not to lock down firmware downgrades gives me hope that Hanlons Law applies in this case though, but 'cloud first' has always bothered me. I'd much rather Home Assistant works with my printer than Bambu Handy, and I'd rather have the option to print directly from Orca slicer, than have to install Bambu Connect.
how else could they say it? nobody knows what will happen 20 years from now. none of their current models will have any of these crazy ass conspiracy things people claim.
@@jimmanis6717Easy, "We have no plans to restrict the use of third party filaments in any way." There is absolutely no good reason (for the consumer) for them to qualify any printers or lines by using a statement such as "For our current product line..."
Everybody seems to forget that "Cloud is only someone else's computer". Therefor using a cloud-based system, WHATEVER system, puts you at the mercy of the computer owner. Period. And if it is "free" you are grown up enough to know that free meals do NOT exist.
@@rccmhalfar the issue is they give no other option to use 3rd party software, when it was working before. They make you completely depend on cloud mode, forcing lan mode to the cloud. Who knows how secured their cloud is in China when the CCP can have full access to your data. Their private keys getting hacked obviously didn't make it more secure either. There is no need to pay to use your 3d printer, it all can be done locally and bambulab didn't left that insecure. Wait until they change their TOS again, they are willing to brick your printer if you dont update firmware for paid services.
if this bothers you, look into something else. They will not change their stance. Give them an inch, they will take a mile. If it isn't this, it'll be something else.
Thats a good decision in my opinion. You are one of the only people I have seen who aren't just switching to a different manufacture without knowing what's really going to happen.
@@minilathemayhem Why? Most of this is all fake rage for clicks, the amount of made up bullshit is hilarious. Nothing wrong with Bambu Labs just a lot of haters (the old school 3d printing community hates them because they prefer printers that take one month of fixing to work and make bad prints). They resent the living hell out of them.
"For our current product line. No." Translation: We are 100% planning on implementing these "features" in future patches to the software and systems. We just dont want you to be mad at us, so we've delayed their launch.
Additional part of the translation: We are also going to rename all of our printers and make incredibly minor cosmetic changes so that we can say "but we didn't break our promise" when we add these "features" in the future. Existing products will be banned from cloud services after that date for "being insecure".
I own two Bambu Lab (BL) printers and 12 others from various brands. I’ve been in the 3D printing industry since 2017, and I have full access to and control over all my printers. Some I’ve migrated to Klipper, while others came pre-installed with it. When people started comparing Bambu Lab printers to the "iPhones of 3D printing," I became concerned-and unfortunately, my worries were justified. BL has now "begun" blocking access to my printers, restricting my ability to modify or integrate other hardware or software with them. Next, I fear they’ll introduce subscriptions and other limitations. Worst of all, they might eventually deprecate these printers entirely, rendering them unusable. The idea of being forced to use their proprietary filaments or losing access altogether is unacceptable to me. At that point, these printers would just become expensive paperweights. Meanwhile, my trusty Ender 2 is still running strong with Klipper and various mods, achieving faster print speeds and greater flexibility. So, I’ve made my decision: I’m selling my two BL printers immediately. Thankfully, my instincts about the company were right-they are not trustworthy. Period. I’ll continue to explore other brands that offer more open systems without sacrificing quality. My next purchases will likely include the Creality K2, the Ender Hi, and the Ender 5 Max. Sorry for the rant!
They're more like Hewlett Packard printers that require an ink subscription to work and only take HP branded supplies. It's insidious. I'll never do business with companies like that.
I can "commit" to anything you want on a verge blog post too. It won't change anything in a court case saying "but you promised!" Cheap, Empty gestures.
Not in the US maybe, but in ex Norway it will. There was a statement made by Elon Musk on Twitter regarding one of the Model S battery. It was never realised and one customer "sued" Tesla and won. Tesla had to buy back the car for full price. If Bambu Labs change to much or "brick" a printer that would be a huge cost for them as they would need to buy back all of the printers in the EU and Norway.
Exactly. They don't even bother to keep their own words made on their own blog publicly, would they even try to honor these so-called ”public" commitments made in private communications and reported by a third party?
When they put it like that, it’ll be interesting to see what restrictions the H2D will have. I’ll wait to see what it brings to the table, but if it has more restrictions, it could produce gold out of horse manure and I would still not buy it.
@@jonwoodworker good one, wining on other people drama. Lately people are drama queens and hop on any exciting thing they are programmed to hop on, sadly, they only chose those things meaningless in their life. Instead focusing on things that really could change their life for better, they focus on so f pointless dramas and waste time on those.
Key answer in question 1: They commit to no subscriptions to use the printer on a home network. They were not asked and did not commit to not requiring a subscription to use their cloud service. And they have stated that certain features will not be available in lan mode. So, if you always want to have all the features your printer has, you have to use the cloud service, and that means you may have to pay a subscription in the future. During the Black Friday sale I was going to buy a P1S/AMS to replace my aging Prusa MK3S+/MMU3, but life got in the way. Things may change, but there's no way I would buy any Bambu printer given the current changes they are making.
I'm more surprised that their cloud printing services are currently free. There is a cost attached to maintaining servers and network bandwidth for file transfers so a lifetime of free cloud services after a one time purchase of a printer doesn't make any business sense to me. I have no need for cloud printing services so lan mode is perfectly fine for me.
Yes, I noticed that too. Unless all features are available on a LAN mode, I feel like the trust is spent and gone. Also, LAN mode comes with caveats as it is; it still requires to connect to the server every few months. Not acceptable - if the machine cannot exist as a standalone machine, then it can be broken at their end and you're left with a very expensive paperweight.
I have been 3D printing for 6 years, have had Creality, Anycubic, and most recently Bambu P1S. I love the P1S for it's ease of use and flawless prints out of the box, along with the seamless process from .stl file to printing. I was considering getting a 2nd Bambu printer but after this I will probably try another Anycubic or possibly Elegoo. I would never buy a machine of any type or brand that required a subscription to use something I paid for. That sounds like leasing a machine. Thanks for the update!
They specifically said no current lineup will ever have a subscription model did you even listen or read the article? So what do you think about anycubic being vulnerable to people setting your printer on fire remotely?
@@jimmanis6717 Companies lie. A lot. Like, a lot a lot. There isn't actually anything holding them to their word except for they themselves, and we've already seen how little Bambu thinks of their customer base.
@@jimmanis6717 I did listen to the entire video, I said I would not purchase any machine that requires a subscription. My P1S does not require a subscription. Did you read my reply? I have not purchased any other printers that connect to the internet yet, so being remotely set on fire is not a concern for me at this time.
So you won’t buy a Bambu lab machine because you dont want to pay a subscription? But they don’t require a subscription and claim they never will, soooooo what’s the reason then?
Get ready to tinker endless amounts of time before you actually print something you want. I found myself constantly trying to tweak/upgrade my Creality Ender v2. I spent more time printing parts for my Ender printer than making parts with my Ender printer.
@Jon-to6969 you can hardly compare an X1C to an Ender 2, of course you had to tinker with the Ender 2, 3d printing was such a niche hobby way back then. I've owned 3 printers since my Ender 2. Spend $1500 on a new Ender printer and it will print better, more reliably, and faster than an ancient Ender 2, probably on par with a Bambu printer. Or go the Prusa route, there are other quality printers out there besides the X1C.
Creality k1 user here. Consider a prusa. K1 the extruder is horrible and fillament loves to get stuck there. Maybe theyve fixed it, but id rather not buy a another replacement extruder.
"We will never require a subscription to control or print from our printers over a *home network*". I noticed the careful wording there. Subscriptions don't usually happen over a home network, they happen when it's cloud based...
They just really needed to just roll back all proposed changes ... For current models. They can take their future in any direction they choose but they should not have affected any current customers
I received my A1 Mini w/ AMS lite as a gift and I love it and will use the hell out of it. Great product so far. That said, this was also my first 3D printer ever. I will definitely be looking to another brand for my future needs. Hopefully, between then and now, enough time will lapse to see how this whole Bambu thing shakes out. Experience tells me, though, that once a company starts suggesting that they lock you in or pull shit adjacent to that, it is like a seed that cannot be unplanted. Time will tell...
There's a lot of..."For our current product line"...in their answers. Tells you everything you need to know about where they're going and what their intentions are, and it's not good. The only thing keeping this fiasco from completely ending Bambu right now (as it should, TBH) is the fact that their printers are really good. People have invested stupid amounts of money in these things for print farms and such, so Bambu figures it's okay to screw those people over now, thinking they won't just ditch their Bambu machines and use something else from now on because they've already made too big an investment. There is some seriously shady, sinister $hit going on here with Bambu.
And they're half-right. Those machines are a big investment; why would anyone want to ditch them? I almost got one; I'm saving up for one now (Gonna get a QIDI Plus 4 instead now). But... current users could keep the current firmware. Or if that's not an option, or features get locked out... there are options of third party firmware, and possibly replacement boards with new firmware. If I had one of those machines I'd be replacing the main control board asap. Cheap upgrade without scrapping the machine.
@@LordPhobos6502 - I think those kinds of 3rd-party mods will suddenly become very, very popular. It's a great machine, you've spent all that money on it, might as well just delete Bambu from the thing and run 3rd-party control boards and firmware and keep on trucking. A lot of people won't know how to do that and they'll feel stuck, but knowing the 3DP community, we'll probably start seeing how-to videos on YT about how to do it. The Qidi Plus-4 is a pretty nice machine. I really like what they've done with it. I hope it does well for you.
Honestly just took my printer offline and wont be updating the firmware. It works just as good. It's still the best printer I've ever owned. It'd be stupid of me to assume the company has my best intentions in mind, but it'd be doubly stupid of me to sell it for a lower quality product.
But what are you gonna do when that 1 year windows to sync yoir firmware with the authentication? Bambu has limited the amount of time that the 2 can't phone home. Most dont knkw this, and think an air gap will stop this. Sure, for maybe a year, then it will still lock you out and force you to go back online and connect with their cloud to get it printing again. I dont own anything Bambu for these type of reasons. Yet most of their fan boys don't even know this stuff.
@@danieljamesbinderystu2968 Why would you make stuff up? have to connect every year? you can unbox and fire up a brand new X1C in a completely internet free location and never access the "cloud" or any other internet. people like you need to get a life. this type of bull crap serves no purpose,
They didn’t have a choice but to respond. Yes, we are not all good. I am not getting Rid of my printer but I will not buy another Bambu printer. Many good open source companies.
"For our current printers, yes." Meaning: we will definitely be adding it at some point on newer printers. "It is reasonable for us to have some say in how it functions if it interacts with our cloud in some way." Meaning: WE decided to make cloud features essential to the full use of the printers. Therefore, we find it reasonable that we get to decide when and if to reduce their functionality and restrict how you operate the printer. You didnt decide to make the hardware function this way, we did, so we decide whats what. They REALLY want to be able to control our printers but these pesky western customers just arent towing the line, so they need to bide their time until they get what they want. They are holding a gun to our head claiming they wont pull the trigger, yet they get defensive and gaslight us when we notice they are slowly squeezing it and we tell them not to. They are also covering their butts in advance when they inevitably either discontinue support for older models, thus bricking them, or forcing updates that limit further functionality. They are sneakily saying that any future vulnerabilities enable them to do away with all their empty promises.
Don't use words you don't understand. bricking means something can't be fixed, not being supported like a 6year old phone is not bricking. and also explaining a stance they always had is not gaslighting, look up the word and it's origin, not what you think it means.
@@jimmanis6717I know the meaning of both those words, and I would say that Bambu made implied threats to brick machines of those who didn't fall in line, and telling someone that you are protecting them in order to get them to act against their own interests certainly seems to fall under the rubric of gaslighting customers to achieve compliance and acquiescence.
I don't know of any threats implied or otherwise to Brick a customers device, that would have lead to immediate lawsuits. could you point this out? And allowing you to keep your machine as it is and not update or update but retain full control is somehow gaslighting?
@ In one of their various positions on all this they suggested that failing to update to the new scheme could result in your being unable to use your printer. As I said, it was an implied, not explicit suggestion. Sorry, I'm not keeping a notebook of links to share with you, I didn't know that you would need my help to follow along. As for your poorly fashioned straw man, the gaslighting was in the effort to persuade us that they were saving us from some dubious threat in order to get us to line up for the Bambu knows best Kool-Aid. You know, that stuff you've been chugging all day. There is always a Quisling in every crowd, and they usually think they're the smartest guy in the room, but rarely are. I'm sorry you didn't receive proper levels of approval as a child, but being annoying now is not a cure for your past suffering and present angst. Have a nice evening, best wishes, I hope you feel better soon. TTFN.
So my thoughts are BL was ahead of the curve when it came to out of the box ease of use and other technolgy. However other companies are now catching up to BL in those areas and including features that BL doesn't currently have in some cases and at a better price point for what you get such as build plate size. Granted some of these manufacturers need to work on their QC, but that will continue to improve as well since the 3D market is so much more competitive now. So in my opinion BL knows this and is trying to ultimately lock people into their proprietary products to maintain market share. I don't blame them for wanting to do that, but in the end, I believe it will backfire. Sorry for the length of this post and I know lots of people will probably disagree which is perfectly cool. Happy printing to all regardless.
You are very gullible if you think corporations never lie. This is just the first phase in implementing subscriptions. Now is the time to get rid of your Bamboo printers and search for alternatives, it will be too late in 3 months.
I was sceptical before I bought my first Bambu in December. I can't see how I can trust them to buy more from them. My First and probably the last Bambu printer.
I was all but certain to purchase my first printer this quarter and it being a BL but I’ll be holding off a bit and looking at other brands now. Having my DJI drone stop me from going any further than 25m on my Christmas break because I needed to log in to my account was a bitter pill to swallow especially since on top of being a stuff around to figure out the hoops it wanted me to jump through I didn’t even have service at the time to be able to. It really woke me up to the fact that I don’t truly own my drone and DJI can disable it at any time.
At this point, I am really not sure wha bambulab can possibly do. I bought a full P1S AMS, and a carp ton of filament during black friday... and am already thinking of a second machine... Now, that second machine is on hold, and i am trying to make sure i tell the TON of people i told to buy a Bambu to also put that on hold. I have too many creative hobbies to want to add "keep the 3D printer running" as yet another, and that's what I like about my P2S! But, now that other manufacturers have seen the market for it, they would be fools to not be full steam on doing the same, so this is really a short term problem... for US! for bambulab... it's existential!! I'm a software dev, so i feel for the position they are in... but at the same time, I've ALWAYS bent over backwards to make sure my users are treated better than they could hope to get treated. Privacy, then honoring existing features rank at the TOP of that list! bambulab needs needs to convince me they feel the same!
I like your balanced approach to this. I have a P1S and don't use it for anything but printing. I use the Bambu slicer but use a variety of filaments (most are non BBL). If I bought a product and it stated that I needed a subscription to use it, then I would know what I was getting into and think hard about my choice based on that. If I bought a product and then a year later the manufacturer enforced a subscription, I'd be pissed. I guess what I will do for now is just reject any new firmware updates that appear on the printer until I have seen reports of whether they are safe to install.
very new to 3d printing, so i ask how can they know what filament youre using? i know ive seen tags and all, but if you can just respool to a bamboo spool, cant you just get around that?
bambulab was the first one to introduce rfid tag directly on their spool so the AMS can auto detect the type and then auto apply the profile (temp/speed/restriction of plate, etc), it can be disabled and is just a really qol and optional. You don't have to respool, just just remove the rfid and stick it on another spool of any brand, all bambu refill also have a rfid already on the roll
Sure you can for now. However, you can already see where this is going just like inkjet printers. Put a chip on the filament roll and you are locked down to their brand for supplies. Same thing happened to a popular shipping label printer. They added a chip to their paper roll. The label printer only works with their paper roll.
@@pazu8728and how easy for alternative suppliers to bypass that. From cloning chips to overlay pcbs, to drilling holes and feeding ink in from a bottle. I don’t see a way to effectively protect the current spool design in such a way. And anyway, Bambu have specifically said they won’t do that (for existing models). I also think the inkjet situation is a little different because those printers are sold at or below cost to be able to make the money on the backend with supplies.
but you trust BTT even though they have known they were going to be locked out of full control almost a year ago and sold the stuff to customers anyway?
I love my bambu printers! Im not gonna buy another one, but i love the ones i currently own. I print offline from an SD card anyway. I can slice with orca, so im not worried about them!
I wouldn't be surprised if Bambu Labs is in talks with HP. Build a good user experience, great hardware, sell it to "us HP" and let us do what we do best; Rip Off our customers.
these verbal commitments mean nothing. 'its natural for us to want a say in the security of our cloud service' - well why should print jobs sent from a local computer to a local printer over local wifi involve Bambu's cloud service in the first place? that was always a huge red flag, and now that people are seeing it for what it is an empty and unenforceable corporate commitment is not going to put the cat back in the bag.
I'm fine with it. The X1C is a great printer at a reasonable price. I knew I was getting a closed system. I believe them regarding their current line of printers and for future consumer models. I could very well see them offering an enterprise solution similar to Stratosys (who is suing them by the way for using a heated build plate and some stuff in Bambu Studio) where they would require their filaments and some kind of recurring maintenance contract, but that is normal in those environments. They know that would never fly for regular consumers.
I think the X1C is great. Its a straight forward appliance which works out of the box with zero tinkering. Bamboo Handy and Bamboo Studio are great. I have had zero issues with their filament. As I have had zero issues with the X1C I dont have zero experience to give sympathy for the chicken little argument many are making.
@@zz3709 Nothing new here. I can think of numerous items I have in my house which have basic control on the device but more expansive, fuller controls via an app. I am surprised that many of such devices offer app functionality at no cost.
I still don't have a clear answer to one question, can I use bambu studios with my printer in lan mode and not need to go through their internet sign in or security? It was not clear to me from the questions or answers on this particular point. I am a n00b to all this and I may have missed it
I just bought our first 3D printer, A1 Mini. I will NOT by another Bambulab printer! This should be a signal to ALL 3D printer companies that this is unacceptable. I bought into 3D printing because the concept of creating, manufacturing and tickering without limitations. When a company does a bait and switch routine the community needs to respond by boycotting the company to set an example to every other company debating on the doing the same. Prusa Core One here I come!
They deliberately waited until after the holidays when tons of people bought them for kids and themselves, then tried this. Probably waited for the majority of purchased units return windows to expire before making announcement.
I wanted to buy one... but I don't know what to do... maybe I'll stick to opensource Creality? QIDI will probably do the same right? They typically follow the in the shoes of Bambu
Genuinely asking: as someone who was considering buying my first 3D printer because Bambu seemed to finally be making the convenient, easy to use machines I've been waiting for, are they still worth buying from?
This! I was considering buying one this weekend. Then all of this went down. I've ask this question on the reddit. Everyone says "its a good product" "you just getting started this wont hinder you." but, what if I start digging deep into 3DP and I hit a roadblock because of a stupid update is what worries me as a FTC. I'm still on the fitz. I was waiting til the update officially drops to see what the masses still say.
Yea, me too. I cleaned out a workspace area just for a 3d printer. I set aside $2k for the X1C and a good selection of filliment plus some 4 bay dryers for storage and other accessories. Now, I am reading and researching other brands. I actually saw the K1 suggested as a good choice. Wow how things change un just a short time 😉
After researching and watching every video I could find on different 3D printers, I finally pulled the trigger on a BBL A1/AMS during the Black Friday sale. I could care less about the app, it's more of a gimmick than anything actually useful, but as far as I could tell BBL made really good, reliable 3D printers that just worked out of the box. That's exactly what I wanted. Now Bambu have pulled this crap and I really wish I hadn't bought mine. It's not because the machine isn't great...it really is. It has been almost flawless since I've owned it. It just makes me nauseous to see Bambu trying to tell people what they're "allowed" to do with the 3D printer they bought and own. Bambu are relying on people's apathy and the fact that they've already got your money for the 3D printer you just bought from them, so you'll likely just stay with them and do whatever they tell you to do, even if that means using the slicer they TELL you to use, forcing you to send all of your personal and print data through their Chinese servers, and eventually having to pay a subscription just to use your own printer. The only reason Bambu might get away with this is because their machines are excellent. If their machines were crap, nobody would care. They'd just go out and buy something else and forget Bambu altogether. So, Bambu printers are, in fact, excellent machines that will work right out of the box and produce epic quality prints every...single...time. They also typically cost less than a lot of competitors. Their app works (compared to competitors who can't seem to get that right). Their slicer is one of the best, right behind Orca. Their parts and support infrastructure are second to none in the 3D printing sphere. But if you buy one, just do so with the knowledge that Bambu will restrict or completely lock down anything you want to do that isn't Bambu. If you're okay with that, order a Bambu printer right now. The user experience is very, very good. If you think you should be able to use the products you want, print what you want using the slicer software that suits your needs, and not be dependent on Chinese cloud servers for authorization to use the machine you bought, then maybe look elsewhere.
I hope it works OK in the long run because I can't afford another printer with this speed and quality. I think we need to put a bounty out for a third party firmware, just in case.
Thanks for doing this video. I currently own a P1S and was very concerned about my future operability as I was considering adding an additional printer from BL for additional capacity, and am now hesitant to do that. I know that any future conditions that limited my connectivity and use of the printer would make me go another direction.
they already demonstrated what they are going for. they'll make more attempts to do proprietary things in every aspect possible after enough time passes. id say drop em and look into other printers for the near and far future.
Still nice words. There is no saying in to clarify the license agreement. Also the answers always looked overly specific into current models. It looks more like a Desaster or response than a response from the tech group. Thank you for your video and your part about he risks that are not answered.
Had they put this info in the original firmware announcement on the 16th they would have maybe saved some of the uproar. Thanks for sharing this update info.
You're missing the point. They didn't put this in the initial blog post because they had no intention of doing any of this without the backlash. That said, we've caught them flat out lying and stealth editing the blog posts so they can gaslight their customers, why are you defaulting to just trusting the word of the company who is blatantly lying to you?
@@kylequinn1963 No they never imagined people would go all conspiracy on them, it was something that has been talked about with developers and in their forums since last spring. Everyone is putting all of this crazy stuff out there that was never in their roadmap. And updating is not stealth editing. Prusa, creality etc. all have changed things on their sites.
..."for our current product line"... 😂😅😂😅 In unrelated news, next week Bambulab will release a new "generation 2" product line.... 😮 We hear you, Bambu. You are going to eff us over. This is the plan - it has and will not change. Eff you, customers.
When a consumer purchases a product, it is purchased with an advertised feature set and any change of that feature set by the manufacturer that is restricted after the sale is fraud/theft IMHO. Bambu is clearly changing the terms of sale *after* the sale. You purchase a product that can perform X, Y, and Z and now we are going to take Z away or restrict Y because of a flaw in our original design or because we want to take the company in a different direction. No sir, you fix that shit, plain and simple. If they want to start a different product line with different sales model (or a lease/rent relationship), then so be it. I am appalled that they are actually trying to implement this in its present iteration.. The consumer base, rightfully so, is at the castle gates with pitch forks and Bambu has the temerity to gaslight the users into accepting the updated terms -- that dog won't hunt. If I were to purchase a second printer or eventually replace my current printer, will it be another Bambu? Hell no, not after this charade -- unless they fire the people in their company who came up with this boneheaded idea and apologize to their consumers. Is it too little too late? Nah, it is just too much.
@@jimmanis6717 I can explain it for you, but cannot understand it for you -- I urge you to go back and watch the video and other videos on the matter. 😕
@@phil_in_florida so you have no clue, got it, just join in on the mob because that's cool. I have had my X1c for a long time, there isn't a single thing it came with that they have removed or blocked me from using, if anything the feature set has expanded, lots more profiles for 3rd party filaments, hotends and many other things.
@@jimmanis6717The issue here is not what they have done, but what they are proposing to change. I hope that you continue to enjoy your X1C (as I hope to continue to enjoy my Bambu product). You are correct in that they have expanded many features, and that is great. However, they are proposing firmware changes that will limit and restrict others which is an entirely different issue. These proposed changes are going to place an undue burden on others and break their work-flows (some workflows will be broken irreparably -- like using a Panda touch to control multiple machines, for example). In my case, the firmware will break Linux compatibility which currently works perfectly as it stands. In any case, happy printing.
I am having a lot of fun with my A1, however, I was concerned from the start at buying a Chinese made printer because I do not trust them much. Mine is in Lan only mode and has it's own router. I have only done one firmware upgrade and that was when I first got it six months ago. I was just about to start experimenting with 3rd party filaments. I hope that I have not made a bad choice by going with Bambu Labs. The printer has been flawless by the way. I am getting great results and love the features. Thank you for talking about this.
I own 2 and print offline with an SD. Im like you and have only done 1 update. I will keep mine but i wont buy another one. They are great machines though!
"You will own NOTHING and be happy"........ And be compliant! Ring a bell? I don't own a 3d printer but thought of getting one a while ago. Every single aspect of our lives is going digital through apps on devices. The software on the devices will never be "yours" just because you bought a product/device. Therefore a part (software) of that product will ALWAYS belong to the manufacturer so in the future we will NEVER 100% own anything and will have to comply to someone else's "TERMS" to get through life in everything we do. Bambu are stepping in that direction. Think about it, why is EVERYTHING being pushed to the "cloud"?
as just a hobby printer , I really don't mind. But i always use bambu studio anyhow, and after having tinkered way to many hours with enders and the like i'm just happy i now have a fire and forget printer in my X1
The instant they did this they became a "never buy" brand. Companies keep trying this, and they'll keep trying it if they're not terrified out of it. The behavior has to stop and if it requires one or more companies to fail so the others get a clue, so be it. Bambu is dead and will forever be dead to me.
"For our current product line" I worked for many years in consumer electronics, and I can tell you that all a manufacturer needs to do to make a "new product" is change the model number. This makes me sad. I really like how my X1C "just works" with minimal fiddling. That was the major selling point for me. While I will keep using my X1C, I cannot at this time commit to any future purchases beyond repair components. As always, greed will take down a company that was the golden child of a community.
I just wrote my own app to communicate with Bambu Connect using LAN mode, and the security is complete BULLSHIT! All you have to do is send a correctly formatted url and Bambu Connect loads the files just fine. Not just that but if BC is not already open then you must tell it to accept the file, tell it to search for a printer, choose the correct printer, even if there is only one, and tell it to send to the printer. If you decide to leave BC open and connected all the time you still must tell it accept the file and send it to the printer. So not only is it not secure at all but adds too many steps between the slicer and the printer. Hopefully using Bambu Connect when not in LAN mode does provide some security, but I'm not sure how it could. Once I get the program tidied up I'll post it to the forums.
If they aren't going to make these changes with the current printers than I will be happy and continue to use the printers I have. It sounds like they have plans going forward that they will force us to use their filament and some sort of subscription plan to use their future printers so I wouldn't purchase any more products like that. It really sucks because they make arguably the best 3D printer on the market and its allowed so many new users to get into 3D printing.
what they are discussing is a vending machine style device like has been shown in china and korea, you pay the machine and select an item and it prints it for you, so you don't have to own a printer. if that becomes popular than they will use a subscription and locked down filaments to prevent the owner from ripping people off by using el cheapo filament or other scams.
I'm quite certain that if nothing dramatically changes, I'll never buy a Bambu product again. I'll keep on using my X1C, though. It's a workhorse and the best printer I've ever had, but backstabbing their customers the way they do, like this, is very bad indeed. Let's just hope someone manages to port Klipper to the X1C soon ;)
@ The way Bambu treats their customers here, is backstabbing indeed. Not only me. And yes, I'm quite certain I understand how it all sums up. But hey, I don't want to step on the toes of bambu fanboys - keep up the good work and let the rest of us do the thinking ;)
@ I doubt there is any "thinking" going on under that fedora, if you have so much knowledge why haven't you flashed X1plus on there yet? Octoprint instead of klipper based but octo has many more features anyway.
@jimmanis6717 There's no reason to turn this into a personal attack me like that. I'll flash the printer with X1plus once I get home - I'm not, atm, because of a broken femur. The point is that the printer is already authenticating with the Bambu via its serial number and password. The slicer is also authenticated with Bambu via the Bambu username+password. The printer is behi nd NAT in at least 99% of the cases and the remaining 1% will know what they're doing. The printer doesn't support IPv6 either, so it won't be a problem if the ISP has open IPv6 into the network, like some have. The additional "security" by adding a hidden username+password or key to authenticate the client software with Bambu, is only to limit the users and Bambu knows this ve ry well. If this is indeed a security measure, then Bambu shouldn't have had the combined mental capacity to create their printers in the first place, so they know what they're doing. So please stop acting like an a-hole and do go on discussing the case if you have anything to say, but stick to facts and not telling people off just because they know more than you do.
I requested the cancelation of my order. Their response has been horrendous, and there's no trust left. Walking away with my wallet and never buying any BL products again.
I had the same experience and non sense crap or how I have to pay to ship back the printer I haven’t even received yet but supposedly shipped… Tell me your shady without telling me your shady. Not to mention the filiment and other parts I can’t return because it’s been more than 14 days 🤬
3 minutes into the video. I would also like to add Lan mode is a promise by the machine to not send/recive data. never trust a promise specially from bambu make sure you have your machine firewalled off or air gapped.
I started off with ultimaker and have a few creality printers. I am opening a business and was looking and bambu p1s printers but now probably going to stick with creality. I so far have had a great experience with creality, but i run dji for my drones and thats why i was looking at bambu polished system.
I've got a P1S that i've been working like crazy for the last few months. When BTT comes out with a replacement mainboard, I'll swap it. This affects my future decisions.
You don't need to replace the mainboard, just the firmware. There was not much motivation to hack the P1S before, because it did what we wanted and did it acceptably well. When the firmware update rolls out for the P1S, that will change. I expect a reverse engineered firmware to be released shortly thereafter. Maybe not much in the way of features, but just safeguards to protect the printer from Bambu's shenanigans.
I will say that the language they’re using here is exactly the same kind of language that Adobe was using before they shifted to Creative Cloud. If your files are stored in any way- even in transit- on a cloud server, they can see it, and they will probably secretly save it to train their AI models. I will never buy a 3D printer that does or threatens to ever lock me into using their subscription service, software, or filaments/ resin. This is the very first step into 3D printers going down the expensive, chipped path that companies like HP went with their desktop inkjets. Don’t stand for it now. Don’t stand for it ever. The only way they win is if we ALLOW them to railroad us like this.
With all the "not for existing products" caveats it sounds to me that BL is saying the new H2D is going to be "Bambu filament only, subscription based" printer.
I'm fine with companies being closed house IF they make that clear for the start and build from ground up. I have a problem when a company bases everything off others work with contributing anything back and then locks that down. I will not buy another BL printer and have moved away from there filaments. I'm currently looking at there RFID tags and seeing what can do done to replicate and if the key leak help with replicating tags. I'm quiet confident this can be achieved in the coming weeks either by myself or others and shared to the community
I have an A1 and have gone to LAN Only mode. I don't trust them to not stealth update my printer... Even if in the end it doesn't have any changes that affect me. It's my equipment and I will choose when and what gets updated to my printer. Far too often there are bugs introduced from what is by and large beta code. As for subscription services, no bloody way. I will definitely choose another option if I am forced to sub to use something. I don't NEED to 3D print... It's a hobby. So since I don't NEED to 3d print, I won't sub. It's not like having to pay for power or Internet. It's not a necessity for me.
Oh and I don't understand why sending a print to my printer, from my computer on the same network has suddenly slowed to a crawl. It should be slower coming from the cloud, shouldn't it? Something is fishy there...
Afraid I have to call BS on point #3. I have 2x P1S printers that have been in LAN only mode for a year that can not be discovered by either Orca Slicer or Bambu Slicer unless they are exposed to the internet. f I put them behind the router firewall (basically making them truly LAN only) I can not access the printers.
The printers are very user/beginner friendly. However my rule of thumb for all hardware and software is if there is a open source option with minimal sacrificing of functionality I'll choose that
Its sad, I recently bought a BL A1 and was amazed. It worked out of the box with an insane quality. My brother got an Artillery 3D printer (dont know the exact model) and he had much more issues with printing. I immediately cut the WLAN and switched to LAN only mode. I hope, that the internet does what it does best and there will be something like a jailbreak or CFW for the printer that again allows it being controlled etc. with different slicers. Its especially annoying, since I am currently creating some smaller things I maybe want to start a small buisness with. Dont get me wrong, I am not even thinking about them "stealing" my designs, since they arent that refined. But its about the principle. I will not send my data over to their server in any way shape or form. So I will keep on waiting and maybe people that are much smarter concerning things like that will have a solution.
My issue with this is... Why does developer mode require use of LAN only mode (which effectively eliminated any use of cloud services,? They can still secure access to their cloud services while still giving us access to developer mode options... They don't need to be in the lan only mode container... What happens on my side of the router firewall has absolutely zero impact on their secure cloud services. No matter how they spin it, they're taking away features by forcing you to choose between having your devices and software you choose not work, or having the ability to monitor my printer remotely or start prints with Bambu Handy not working. There's no technology reason for developer mode features to require the printer to be in lan only mode.
Exactly, the point was never security it was to force a cloud connection. Why they're doing that is for you to decide, but I think the community at large has already figured it out.
@@kylequinn1963 so nobody saw the Anycubic snake stuff? or the news about the so called third party apps trying to ping the cloud a million requests a second to fish for peoples passwords? I don't blame them for only wanting the cloud to be accessed by their software since the others showed they couldn't be trusted, one bad actor can and often does ruin it for everyone.
@@kylequinn1963 the thing is, I just want to be able to use the cloud services when I want to (like monitoring a print when I'm not home....) and the ability to control my printer any way I like. OrcaSlicer doesn't need cloud to send prints to the printer, as we've already seen it can send prints over the local network... The printer shouldn't need to be in lan ONLY mode to do that.
It took me quite a while to build enough trust in Bambu Lab to even order my 1st printer (A1 Combo). I fell in love with the whole ecosystem and just ordered my 2nd A1 Combo (delivery due 1/24). Unfortunately, with this new development, and subsequent "gaslighting" instead of 100% transparency by Bambu, my trust has taken a huge step down. I'm probably going to switch both printers to Lan Mode and not do any firmware updates until such time (and if) Bambu changes their terms and conditions to exclude them basically bricking my printers if I don't allow new firmware updates. (Doing this will already take away some of the features that helped me choose a Bambu printer) A huge part of why I chose the Bambu printer was open ended use of software, non Bambu filaments, networking abilities, etc. Now it seems that Bambu is starting down the slippery slope of limiting important parts of these freedoms, and quite possibly planning even more limitations down the road. The road to hell is paved with good intentions......how well does it get paved when the intentions are nefarious from the start?????? I was suggesting Bambu printers to other potentially new customers, but I have already informed those people to hold off and see where this is going. I will not recommend Bambu printers to anyone until I have that trust built back up by Bambu. Until then, I'll simply recommend one of the equally good newest competitor's printer. There are some really good ones out there now. Thanks for taking the time to share this latest news and your opinions with us!!!
I believe they will keep limiting their systems. Maybe not as fast as intended, because of the outcry, and their current lineup. As it stands tho I will not be buying a bambu printer again.
Remember that like a politician, no company can be held to their terms of service or promises, unless you have a $billion dollar legal fund to sue them. Lies and lies, they are preparing for a subscription revenue model.
Not using industry standards and not changing their strategy after the key is extracted makes them look like fools. I can not trust that anything they produce will actually be secure. Having the slicer/client retain a unique private key and have a public key on the printer is not hard. If security is really their focus.
Whether you agree with what Bambu have done or not they have not handled this situation well. I expect reaction from owners will depend a lot on how they use their printers, I have a stock machine and as long as I can slice and print thru Bambu Studio subscription-free I’m happy, for users that have 3rd party add ons etc or come from a background of tinkering I understand these changes could be a problem. Bambu need to learn from this. The other company that springs to mind is Sonos who have via their software updates disappointed many customers. Thanks for your considered run through you have gained a subscriber.
Any answer from that company is now tainted by their gaslighting their customers and changing their website while scrubbing wayback machine to make everyone else look crazy.
bzzzzzzzt wrong
The suspicions from a year ago have come true, Bambu can't be trusted and a lot of Bambu haters are laughing it up saying "I told you so"
Wowwwwwwww parasocial relationships with corporations is a bit much
@@dosdontWe really are. I always got Apple vibes but more insidious and am not happy at all.
I'm also not a hater, I appreciate how their printer pushed the bar and others had to try and meet it.
They are a chinese company. The subscription would allow them to sell the printers cheaper to counteract the tariff and make up the revenue via subscription fees not subject to tariff. This is about control too. The CCP can brick all these printers remotely or use them to get on your network. Prusa is european. They actually enforce consumer rights there and can't steal your prints for themselves. IP theft is ingrained in chinese culture, they don't respect it in any way.
For buying, look at printers not made by the CCP. Especially if you are investing in a business that cannot risk losses from bricked printers. Safeguard yourself. Don't let world wide depression and war brick your printing business.
As consumers, we can actually make a difference by choosing to avoid chinese products whenever possible. We do not have to wait for a billionaire to do it for us.
It’s unfortunate you skipped the second paragraph of 7a, because it speaks volumes about Bambu Lab’s thought process. It basically says that they do not trust their customers and third party developers, even those that comply with Bambu’s guidelines, not being a bad faith actor. They do not trust us to know what is best for our own flows, hardware and networks. All of which can be easily solved by implementing an API ToS, session management control and limiting access to those who violate the terms. The arrogance of this company to declare that industry standard authorization, authentication and API management is not good enough for them, while at the same time implementing a piece of s*t software that was hacked in under 24h, is dumbfounding.
@@bjrnsrensen8456 That's a great point. Thank you for bringing that up in the comments. I truly appreciate it.
Because it has nothing to do with security. If it was, IOT has already solved security. This was and is a lockdown move.
How about they simply can stop all together with this non-sense. Not only is making a product dependent on a vendor service illegal in the EU it is useless. They can offer a cloud solution, no issue there. Let the customer decide for themselves if it provides value or not. But that is not what they are doing. They are gatekeeping the machine.
Yep, they could have deployed known, secure liberties quickly and easily that are widely used. Instead they developed inhouse, some of the worse, incompetent "security" code I have ever seen. The kicker is they still gaslight us with claims this is all about make the printers secure.
Very CCP-like, wouldn't you say?
The fact that they removed content from their website and then gaslighted their customer base is enough for me to never give them another dollar. Super shady.
2 little 2 late. Bambu has shown their true colors (and most likely underestimated the backlash); they care about their business (not their users). It is is called enshittification. I was considering a PS1, but I will stay with Prusa: a Prusa Core One it is.
so true! no trust to bambu anymore
💯 Started saving for a Core One.
I wanted to get a p1S in the next few month, now I'm Not really sure.
Bambu löst a Lot of Trust
@@inu3344 I've been waiting over a year for the new Bambu printer, I bought a cheap Ender to learn on. Now I don't know what to do
Good Choice ; they look like a solid Machine ! Prusa are very reliable to !
I'll never trust them again. This is damage control for them.
it's bullshit research and don't believe click bait you tube
@@nicwilson58 No, believe Bambu and that's why they can't be trusted.
This whole thing was nothing more than PR blunder, which was latched onto by RUclipsrs wanting to post clickbait videos.
No offense to this channel, and I appreciate the host working to clear this up.
@@john2510 horseshit. They clearly gaslit and so have you.
If it looks like a Duck, swims like a Duck and quacks like a Duck, it's probably a Duck. Far too often we've seen 'security' used as an excuse for anti-consumer practices.
The promise not to lock down firmware downgrades gives me hope that Hanlons Law applies in this case though, but 'cloud first' has always bothered me. I'd much rather Home Assistant works with my printer than Bambu Handy, and I'd rather have the option to print directly from Orca slicer, than have to install Bambu Connect.
"Current line" interesting choice of words
how else could they say it? nobody knows what will happen 20 years from now. none of their current models will have any of these crazy ass conspiracy things people claim.
100% chance they require subscription or lock filament or something like that with wording it like that
Definitely some implications there, right??
How else would you say it to include all the products they currently sell?
@@jimmanis6717Easy, "We have no plans to restrict the use of third party filaments in any way."
There is absolutely no good reason (for the consumer) for them to qualify any printers or lines by using a statement such as "For our current product line..."
Everybody seems to forget that "Cloud is only someone else's computer". Therefor using a cloud-based system, WHATEVER system, puts you at the mercy of the computer owner. Period. And if it is "free" you are grown up enough to know that free meals do NOT exist.
It's free until they inevitably have feature based subscription service.
Lets admit it cloud solutions with budget printers is not commercially viable. The cost of their cloud service needs to be recouped somehow.
@@rccmhalfar they are recouping the cost though, by getting people to buy their printers.
@@rccmhalfar the issue is they give no other option to use 3rd party software, when it was working before. They make you completely depend on cloud mode, forcing lan mode to the cloud. Who knows how secured their cloud is in China when the CCP can have full access to your data. Their private keys getting hacked obviously didn't make it more secure either. There is no need to pay to use your 3d printer, it all can be done locally and bambulab didn't left that insecure. Wait until they change their TOS again, they are willing to brick your printer if you dont update firmware for paid services.
Definitely too little too late. We need to make an example out of them so no company ever tries to do this again.
Whew! Thank God they commit to all these things! I'm convinced they're perfect little angels now
Put purchase on hold until the ""dust" settles.
if this bothers you, look into something else. They will not change their stance. Give them an inch, they will take a mile. If it isn't this, it'll be something else.
Thats a good decision in my opinion. You are one of the only people I have seen who aren't just switching to a different manufacture without knowing what's really going to happen.
man, I would never trust anything they come up with after all this bullshit. just buy anything that is not bambu
I ordered a P1S about a week before all of this stuff happened. Little bit mad about it, and it's too late to cancel the order now lol.
@@minilathemayhem Why? Most of this is all fake rage for clicks, the amount of made up bullshit is hilarious. Nothing wrong with Bambu Labs just a lot of haters (the old school 3d printing community hates them because they prefer printers that take one month of fixing to work and make bad prints). They resent the living hell out of them.
"For our current product line. No." Translation: We are 100% planning on implementing these "features" in future patches to the software and systems. We just dont want you to be mad at us, so we've delayed their launch.
Additional part of the translation: We are also going to rename all of our printers and make incredibly minor cosmetic changes so that we can say "but we didn't break our promise" when we add these "features" in the future. Existing products will be banned from cloud services after that date for "being insecure".
That is reasonable from bambulab. They have the right to sell future products under new license
Your comment is 100% spot on. This is exactly what they plan to do with their next line up
@@minilathemayhem nah, my bet is on some industrial printer none of us are likely to ever see in person.
😂
I own two Bambu Lab (BL) printers and 12 others from various brands. I’ve been in the 3D printing industry since 2017, and I have full access to and control over all my printers. Some I’ve migrated to Klipper, while others came pre-installed with it.
When people started comparing Bambu Lab printers to the "iPhones of 3D printing," I became concerned-and unfortunately, my worries were justified. BL has now "begun" blocking access to my printers, restricting my ability to modify or integrate other hardware or software with them.
Next, I fear they’ll introduce subscriptions and other limitations. Worst of all, they might eventually deprecate these printers entirely, rendering them unusable. The idea of being forced to use their proprietary filaments or losing access altogether is unacceptable to me. At that point, these printers would just become expensive paperweights.
Meanwhile, my trusty Ender 2 is still running strong with Klipper and various mods, achieving faster print speeds and greater flexibility.
So, I’ve made my decision: I’m selling my two BL printers immediately. Thankfully, my instincts about the company were right-they are not trustworthy. Period.
I’ll continue to explore other brands that offer more open systems without sacrificing quality. My next purchases will likely include the Creality K2, the Ender Hi, and the Ender 5 Max.
Sorry for the rant!
They're more like Hewlett Packard printers that require an ink subscription to work and only take HP branded supplies. It's insidious. I'll never do business with companies like that.
@@schrodingersmechanic7622 Do you own any Apple products by chance?
Good rant! No need to be sorry
This is the first rational and intelligent video on this subject that I've seen recently. TY 👍👍
I can "commit" to anything you want on a verge blog post too. It won't change anything in a court case saying "but you promised!" Cheap, Empty gestures.
Not in the US maybe, but in ex Norway it will. There was a statement made by Elon Musk on Twitter regarding one of the Model S battery. It was never realised and one customer "sued" Tesla and won. Tesla had to buy back the car for full price.
If Bambu Labs change to much or "brick" a printer that would be a huge cost for them as they would need to buy back all of the printers in the EU and Norway.
Exactly. They don't even bother to keep their own words made on their own blog publicly, would they even try to honor these so-called ”public" commitments made in private communications and reported by a third party?
Lotta weasel room here; "...in our 'current' product line..."
When they put it like that, it’ll be interesting to see what restrictions the H2D will have. I’ll wait to see what it brings to the table, but if it has more restrictions, it could produce gold out of horse manure and I would still not buy it.
Sold my A1 yesterday. bought a Prusa.
I just sold my Prusa and bought 2 A1s for the same price. Doubling my working capabilities.
How much, what platform did you sell it on and how did you sell it so fast, as I am trying to do the same???? I haven't even taken it out the box.
@@josephsmith601 he didn't you'll never see someone say they bought a prusa without saying MK4s or whatever model.
@@jonwoodworker good one, wining on other people drama. Lately people are drama queens and hop on any exciting thing they are programmed to hop on, sadly, they only chose those things meaningless in their life. Instead focusing on things that really could change their life for better, they focus on so f pointless dramas and waste time on those.
If your use case is best served by it, more power to ya. I don’t know that anything has actually changed for you, other than outrage?
Key answer in question 1: They commit to no subscriptions to use the printer on a home network. They were not asked and did not commit to not requiring a subscription to use their cloud service. And they have stated that certain features will not be available in lan mode. So, if you always want to have all the features your printer has, you have to use the cloud service, and that means you may have to pay a subscription in the future.
During the Black Friday sale I was going to buy a P1S/AMS to replace my aging Prusa MK3S+/MMU3, but life got in the way. Things may change, but there's no way I would buy any Bambu printer given the current changes they are making.
Just keep using the prusa if it is still working YOU fully control the firmware and everything that printer can do.
I'm more surprised that their cloud printing services are currently free. There is a cost attached to maintaining servers and network bandwidth for file transfers so a lifetime of free cloud services after a one time purchase of a printer doesn't make any business sense to me. I have no need for cloud printing services so lan mode is perfectly fine for me.
@@WhoTnT Free is another word for bait.
Yes, I noticed that too. Unless all features are available on a LAN mode, I feel like the trust is spent and gone.
Also, LAN mode comes with caveats as it is; it still requires to connect to the server every few months. Not acceptable - if the machine cannot exist as a standalone machine, then it can be broken at their end and you're left with a very expensive paperweight.
You can bet your @ss it will be paywalled one day
I have been 3D printing for 6 years, have had Creality, Anycubic, and most recently Bambu P1S. I love the P1S for it's ease of use and flawless prints out of the box, along with the seamless process from .stl file to printing. I was considering getting a 2nd Bambu printer but after this I will probably try another Anycubic or possibly Elegoo. I would never buy a machine of any type or brand that required a subscription to use something I paid for. That sounds like leasing a machine. Thanks for the update!
They specifically said no current lineup will ever have a subscription model did you even listen or read the article? So what do you think about anycubic being vulnerable to people setting your printer on fire remotely?
@@jimmanis6717 Companies lie. A lot. Like, a lot a lot. There isn't actually anything holding them to their word except for they themselves, and we've already seen how little Bambu thinks of their customer base.
@@jimmanis6717 I did listen to the entire video, I said I would not purchase any machine that requires a subscription. My P1S does not require a subscription. Did you read my reply? I have not purchased any other printers that connect to the internet yet, so being remotely set on fire is not a concern for me at this time.
So you won’t buy a Bambu lab machine because you dont want to pay a subscription?
But they don’t require a subscription and claim they never will, soooooo what’s the reason then?
Totally get where you're coming from.
They missed the opportunity to ask about their Terms of service gaslighting, and why they changed it at the last minute
Yes, a very odd omission. That by itself is a deal breaker for me.
I've considering a Bambu X1C for about two weeks, but now I'm looking at Creality and Prusa instead
Get ready to tinker endless amounts of time before you actually print something you want. I found myself constantly trying to tweak/upgrade my Creality Ender v2. I spent more time printing parts for my Ender printer than making parts with my Ender printer.
@Jon-to6969 you can hardly compare an X1C to an Ender 2, of course you had to tinker with the Ender 2, 3d printing was such a niche hobby way back then. I've owned 3 printers since my Ender 2. Spend $1500 on a new Ender printer and it will print better, more reliably, and faster than an ancient Ender 2, probably on par with a Bambu printer. Or go the Prusa route, there are other quality printers out there besides the X1C.
Creality k1 user here. Consider a prusa. K1 the extruder is horrible and fillament loves to get stuck there. Maybe theyve fixed it, but id rather not buy a another replacement extruder.
Have a look at the QIDI Plus 4 and see what you think. It seems to me to be a decent replacemant for the x1carbon.
I would strongly advise get the x1c it prints flawlessly out the box no mods needed
"We will never require a subscription to control or print from our printers over a *home network*".
I noticed the careful wording there. Subscriptions don't usually happen over a home network, they happen when it's cloud based...
They just really needed to just roll back all proposed changes ... For current models. They can take their future in any direction they choose but they should not have affected any current customers
Remember all the past companies that made promises to the public, Google, Microsoft, Autodesk,etc and then they did what everyone thought they would.
I received my A1 Mini w/ AMS lite as a gift and I love it and will use the hell out of it. Great product so far. That said, this was also my first 3D printer ever. I will definitely be looking to another brand for my future needs. Hopefully, between then and now, enough time will lapse to see how this whole Bambu thing shakes out. Experience tells me, though, that once a company starts suggesting that they lock you in or pull shit adjacent to that, it is like a seed that cannot be unplanted. Time will tell...
There's a lot of..."For our current product line"...in their answers. Tells you everything you need to know about where they're going and what their intentions are, and it's not good. The only thing keeping this fiasco from completely ending Bambu right now (as it should, TBH) is the fact that their printers are really good. People have invested stupid amounts of money in these things for print farms and such, so Bambu figures it's okay to screw those people over now, thinking they won't just ditch their Bambu machines and use something else from now on because they've already made too big an investment. There is some seriously shady, sinister $hit going on here with Bambu.
And they're half-right. Those machines are a big investment; why would anyone want to ditch them?
I almost got one; I'm saving up for one now (Gonna get a QIDI Plus 4 instead now).
But... current users could keep the current firmware. Or if that's not an option, or features get locked out... there are options of third party firmware, and possibly replacement boards with new firmware.
If I had one of those machines I'd be replacing the main control board asap. Cheap upgrade without scrapping the machine.
@@LordPhobos6502 - I think those kinds of 3rd-party mods will suddenly become very, very popular. It's a great machine, you've spent all that money on it, might as well just delete Bambu from the thing and run 3rd-party control boards and firmware and keep on trucking. A lot of people won't know how to do that and they'll feel stuck, but knowing the 3DP community, we'll probably start seeing how-to videos on YT about how to do it.
The Qidi Plus-4 is a pretty nice machine. I really like what they've done with it. I hope it does well for you.
So what other printers are yall considering now? I was days away from purchasing.
Core One
QIDI Plus 4 looks good.
sv 08/06
@@LordPhobos6502 isn't that Chinese too? One fire to another?
Honestly just took my printer offline and wont be updating the firmware. It works just as good. It's still the best printer I've ever owned. It'd be stupid of me to assume the company has my best intentions in mind, but it'd be doubly stupid of me to sell it for a lower quality product.
But what are you gonna do when that 1 year windows to sync yoir firmware with the authentication? Bambu has limited the amount of time that the 2 can't phone home. Most dont knkw this, and think an air gap will stop this. Sure, for maybe a year, then it will still lock you out and force you to go back online and connect with their cloud to get it printing again. I dont own anything Bambu for these type of reasons. Yet most of their fan boys don't even know this stuff.
@@danieljamesbinderystu2968 Why would you make stuff up? have to connect every year? you can unbox and fire up a brand new X1C in a completely internet free location and never access the "cloud" or any other internet. people like you need to get a life. this type of bull crap serves no purpose,
I hope that will work out for you long term!
Excellent point!
@danieljamesbinderystu2968 how do you know this? Ive never heard that mentioned before
This is totally damage control they didn't really answer most of the questions in a way that satisfies
People like you would never be satisfied so it doesn't matter.
Thank you bamboo for making my decision for me! I'll be buying any other brand, but definitely not a bambu printer. ✌️
They didn’t have a choice but to respond. Yes, we are not all good. I am not getting Rid of my printer but I will not buy another Bambu printer. Many good open source companies.
"For our current printers, yes."
Meaning: we will definitely be adding it at some point on newer printers.
"It is reasonable for us to have some say in how it functions if it interacts with our cloud in some way."
Meaning: WE decided to make cloud features essential to the full use of the printers. Therefore, we find it reasonable that we get to decide when and if to reduce their functionality and restrict how you operate the printer. You didnt decide to make the hardware function this way, we did, so we decide whats what.
They REALLY want to be able to control our printers but these pesky western customers just arent towing the line, so they need to bide their time until they get what they want. They are holding a gun to our head claiming they wont pull the trigger, yet they get defensive and gaslight us when we notice they are slowly squeezing it and we tell them not to.
They are also covering their butts in advance when they inevitably either discontinue support for older models, thus bricking them, or forcing updates that limit further functionality. They are sneakily saying that any future vulnerabilities enable them to do away with all their empty promises.
Don't use words you don't understand. bricking means something can't be fixed, not being supported like a 6year old phone is not bricking. and also explaining a stance they always had is not gaslighting, look up the word and it's origin, not what you think it means.
Yes, but I understand every new printer will come with a condom and a large jar of Vaseline.
@@jimmanis6717I know the meaning of both those words, and I would say that Bambu made implied threats to brick machines of those who didn't fall in line, and telling someone that you are protecting them in order to get them to act against their own interests certainly seems to fall under the rubric of gaslighting customers to achieve compliance and acquiescence.
I don't know of any threats implied or otherwise to Brick a customers device, that would have lead to immediate lawsuits. could you point this out? And allowing you to keep your machine as it is and not update or update but retain full control is somehow gaslighting?
@ In one of their various positions on all this they suggested that failing to update to the new scheme could result in your being unable to use your printer. As I said, it was an implied, not explicit suggestion. Sorry, I'm not keeping a notebook of links to share with you, I didn't know that you would need my help to follow along. As for your poorly fashioned straw man, the gaslighting was in the effort to persuade us that they were saving us from some dubious threat in order to get us to line up for the Bambu knows best Kool-Aid. You know, that stuff you've been chugging all day. There is always a Quisling in every crowd, and they usually think they're the smartest guy in the room, but rarely are. I'm sorry you didn't receive proper levels of approval as a child, but being annoying now is not a cure for your past suffering and present angst. Have a nice evening, best wishes, I hope you feel better soon. TTFN.
"No plans"? Meaning "Probably have plans, but not immediately".
So my thoughts are BL was ahead of the curve when it came to out of the box ease of use and other technolgy. However other companies are now catching up to BL in those areas and including features that BL doesn't currently have in some cases and at a better price point for what you get such as build plate size. Granted some of these manufacturers need to work on their QC, but that will continue to improve as well since the 3D market is so much more competitive now. So in my opinion BL knows this and is trying to ultimately lock people into their proprietary products to maintain market share. I don't blame them for wanting to do that, but in the end, I believe it will backfire. Sorry for the length of this post and I know lots of people will probably disagree which is perfectly cool. Happy printing to all regardless.
Current product line = probably on the next thing
You are very gullible if you think corporations never lie. This is just the first phase in implementing subscriptions. Now is the time to get rid of your Bamboo printers and search for alternatives, it will be too late in 3 months.
I was sceptical before I bought my first Bambu in December. I can't see how I can trust them to buy more from them. My First and probably the last Bambu printer.
I love my A1. As long as there are no changes that negatively impact my experience or cost, i will continue to happily but warily use it
I was all but certain to purchase my first printer this quarter and it being a BL but I’ll be holding off a bit and looking at other brands now.
Having my DJI drone stop me from going any further than 25m on my Christmas break because I needed to log in to my account was a bitter pill to swallow especially since on top of being a stuff around to figure out the hoops it wanted me to jump through I didn’t even have service at the time to be able to. It really woke me up to the fact that I don’t truly own my drone and DJI can disable it at any time.
At this point, I am really not sure wha bambulab can possibly do. I bought a full P1S AMS, and a carp ton of filament during black friday... and am already thinking of a second machine... Now, that second machine is on hold, and i am trying to make sure i tell the TON of people i told to buy a Bambu to also put that on hold. I have too many creative hobbies to want to add "keep the 3D printer running" as yet another, and that's what I like about my P2S! But, now that other manufacturers have seen the market for it, they would be fools to not be full steam on doing the same, so this is really a short term problem... for US! for bambulab... it's existential!! I'm a software dev, so i feel for the position they are in... but at the same time, I've ALWAYS bent over backwards to make sure my users are treated better than they could hope to get treated. Privacy, then honoring existing features rank at the TOP of that list! bambulab needs needs to convince me they feel the same!
I like your balanced approach to this. I have a P1S and don't use it for anything but printing. I use the Bambu slicer but use a variety of filaments (most are non BBL). If I bought a product and it stated that I needed a subscription to use it, then I would know what I was getting into and think hard about my choice based on that. If I bought a product and then a year later the manufacturer enforced a subscription, I'd be pissed. I guess what I will do for now is just reject any new firmware updates that appear on the printer until I have seen reports of whether they are safe to install.
Just gonna keep using my fully open source and OWNER controlled Ender 3.
Rock on!
Good on you! Then you're not affected by any of the drama.
very new to 3d printing, so i ask how can they know what filament youre using? i know ive seen tags and all, but if you can just respool to a bamboo spool, cant you just get around that?
bambulab was the first one to introduce rfid tag directly on their spool so the AMS can auto detect the type and then auto apply the profile (temp/speed/restriction of plate, etc), it can be disabled and is just a really qol and optional.
You don't have to respool, just just remove the rfid and stick it on another spool of any brand, all bambu refill also have a rfid already on the roll
You might be new, but you are obviously 100% correct. Amazing you can see this but so many others can’t.
Sure you can for now. However, you can already see where this is going just like inkjet printers. Put a chip on the filament roll and you are locked down to their brand for supplies. Same thing happened to a popular shipping label printer. They added a chip to their paper roll. The label printer only works with their paper roll.
it is not the first one
@@pazu8728and how easy for alternative suppliers to bypass that. From cloning chips to overlay pcbs, to drilling holes and feeding ink in from a bottle.
I don’t see a way to effectively protect the current spool design in such a way. And anyway, Bambu have specifically said they won’t do that (for existing models).
I also think the inkjet situation is a little different because those printers are sold at or below cost to be able to make the money on the backend with supplies.
I was going to purchase a Bambu printer this week, until this madness. Researching alternative manufactures.
I bought one in the Black Friday sale. Not going to sell it…
I probably would not have bought it if this had happened before then
When BTT release their drop in replacement controller boards that run Klipper natively I'll be very interested. They have lost my trust.
I hope they call it the bandaid
When is that coming?
@@trickman2 Soon, I hope.
but you trust BTT even though they have known they were going to be locked out of full control almost a year ago and sold the stuff to customers anyway?
Very Very interested!!!
I love my bambu printers! Im not gonna buy another one, but i love the ones i currently own. I print offline from an SD card anyway. I can slice with orca, so im not worried about them!
I wouldn't be surprised if Bambu Labs is in talks with HP. Build a good user experience, great hardware, sell it to "us HP" and let us do what we do best; Rip Off our customers.
these verbal commitments mean nothing. 'its natural for us to want a say in the security of our cloud service' - well why should print jobs sent from a local computer to a local printer over local wifi involve Bambu's cloud service in the first place? that was always a huge red flag, and now that people are seeing it for what it is an empty and unenforceable corporate commitment is not going to put the cat back in the bag.
I'm fine with it. The X1C is a great printer at a reasonable price. I knew I was getting a closed system. I believe them regarding their current line of printers and for future consumer models. I could very well see them offering an enterprise solution similar to Stratosys (who is suing them by the way for using a heated build plate and some stuff in Bambu Studio) where they would require their filaments and some kind of recurring maintenance contract, but that is normal in those environments. They know that would never fly for regular consumers.
I think many would agree with you.
I think the X1C is great. Its a straight forward appliance which works out of the box with zero tinkering. Bamboo Handy and Bamboo Studio are great. I have had zero issues with their filament. As I have had zero issues with the X1C I dont have zero experience to give sympathy for the chicken little argument many are making.
For me this was never about being closed, but potentially being forced to be internet-connected at any time.
@@zz3709 Nothing new here. I can think of numerous items I have in my house which have basic control on the device but more expansive, fuller controls via an app. I am surprised that many of such devices offer app functionality at no cost.
I recently bought an x1c, best printer I've ever had. I'm considering another 1 or 2. I hope they keep their word as its a great product.
I still don't have a clear answer to one question, can I use bambu studios with my printer in lan mode and not need to go through their internet sign in or security? It was not clear to me from the questions or answers on this particular point. I am a n00b to all this and I may have missed it
I just bought our first 3D printer, A1 Mini. I will NOT by another Bambulab printer! This should be a signal to ALL 3D printer companies that this is unacceptable. I bought into 3D printing because the concept of creating, manufacturing and tickering without limitations. When a company does a bait and switch routine the community needs to respond by boycotting the company to set an example to every other company debating on the doing the same. Prusa Core One here I come!
They deliberately waited until after the holidays when tons of people bought them for kids and themselves, then tried this. Probably waited for the majority of purchased units return windows to expire before making announcement.
I wanted to buy one... but I don't know what to do... maybe I'll stick to opensource Creality? QIDI will probably do the same right? They typically follow the in the shoes of Bambu
Genuinely asking: as someone who was considering buying my first 3D printer because Bambu seemed to finally be making the convenient, easy to use machines I've been waiting for, are they still worth buying from?
This! I was considering buying one this weekend. Then all of this went down. I've ask this question on the reddit. Everyone says "its a good product" "you just getting started this wont hinder you." but, what if I start digging deep into 3DP and I hit a roadblock because of a stupid update is what worries me as a FTC. I'm still on the fitz. I was waiting til the update officially drops to see what the masses still say.
Yea, me too. I cleaned out a workspace area just for a 3d printer. I set aside $2k for the X1C and a good selection of filliment plus some 4 bay dryers for storage and other accessories.
Now, I am reading and researching other brands. I actually saw the K1 suggested as a good choice. Wow how things change un just a short time 😉
After researching and watching every video I could find on different 3D printers, I finally pulled the trigger on a BBL A1/AMS during the Black Friday sale. I could care less about the app, it's more of a gimmick than anything actually useful, but as far as I could tell BBL made really good, reliable 3D printers that just worked out of the box. That's exactly what I wanted. Now Bambu have pulled this crap and I really wish I hadn't bought mine. It's not because the machine isn't great...it really is. It has been almost flawless since I've owned it. It just makes me nauseous to see Bambu trying to tell people what they're "allowed" to do with the 3D printer they bought and own.
Bambu are relying on people's apathy and the fact that they've already got your money for the 3D printer you just bought from them, so you'll likely just stay with them and do whatever they tell you to do, even if that means using the slicer they TELL you to use, forcing you to send all of your personal and print data through their Chinese servers, and eventually having to pay a subscription just to use your own printer. The only reason Bambu might get away with this is because their machines are excellent. If their machines were crap, nobody would care. They'd just go out and buy something else and forget Bambu altogether.
So, Bambu printers are, in fact, excellent machines that will work right out of the box and produce epic quality prints every...single...time. They also typically cost less than a lot of competitors. Their app works (compared to competitors who can't seem to get that right). Their slicer is one of the best, right behind Orca. Their parts and support infrastructure are second to none in the 3D printing sphere. But if you buy one, just do so with the knowledge that Bambu will restrict or completely lock down anything you want to do that isn't Bambu. If you're okay with that, order a Bambu printer right now. The user experience is very, very good. If you think you should be able to use the products you want, print what you want using the slicer software that suits your needs, and not be dependent on Chinese cloud servers for authorization to use the machine you bought, then maybe look elsewhere.
All a storm in a teacup. "The sky was never falling."
I hope it works OK in the long run because I can't afford another printer with this speed and quality. I think we need to put a bounty out for a third party firmware, just in case.
Thanks for doing this video. I currently own a P1S and was very concerned about my future operability as I was considering adding an additional printer from BL for additional capacity, and am now hesitant to do that. I know that any future conditions that limited my connectivity and use of the printer would make me go another direction.
Why does it sound like Bambu wrote the questions in advance?
Or made up questions no one asked!
they already demonstrated what they are going for. they'll make more attempts to do proprietary things in every aspect possible after enough time passes. id say drop em and look into other printers for the near and far future.
Facts. It was likely their whole business model all along.
I don’t use orca that much, i have 3 machines from them. If i need more i’ll definitely buy another Bambu Lab machine. They made 3d printing fun again
Still nice words. There is no saying in to clarify the license agreement. Also the answers always looked overly specific into current models. It looks more like a Desaster or response than a response from the tech group. Thank you for your video and your part about he risks that are not answered.
Had they put this info in the original firmware announcement on the 16th they would have maybe saved some of the uproar. Thanks for sharing this update info.
You're missing the point. They didn't put this in the initial blog post because they had no intention of doing any of this without the backlash. That said, we've caught them flat out lying and stealth editing the blog posts so they can gaslight their customers, why are you defaulting to just trusting the word of the company who is blatantly lying to you?
@@kylequinn1963 No they never imagined people would go all conspiracy on them, it was something that has been talked about with developers and in their forums since last spring. Everyone is putting all of this crazy stuff out there that was never in their roadmap. And updating is not stealth editing. Prusa, creality etc. all have changed things on their sites.
No. Was waiting for the bigger format bamboo labs printer. Not willing to take a chance I’ll go with the K2 plus already have a 5S one.
I was interested in Bambu, but now i'll just get Flashforge Adventurer 5M
I'm considering the Prusa Core One because Bambu's very poor communications have confused many customers who are cancelling their orders.
I'm just never updating my A1 mini's firmware, I have no need to. I use LAN mode exclusively since the day it was setup.
As long as the firmware is not open source licensed and the printers don't get documentation on how to install unsigned firmware it will not be fixed!
..."for our current product line"... 😂😅😂😅
In unrelated news, next week Bambulab will release a new "generation 2" product line.... 😮
We hear you, Bambu.
You are going to eff us over.
This is the plan - it has and will not change. Eff you, customers.
When a consumer purchases a product, it is purchased with an advertised feature set and any change of that feature set by the manufacturer that is restricted after the sale is fraud/theft IMHO. Bambu is clearly changing the terms of sale *after* the sale. You purchase a product that can perform X, Y, and Z and now we are going to take Z away or restrict Y because of a flaw in our original design or because we want to take the company in a different direction. No sir, you fix that shit, plain and simple. If they want to start a different product line with different sales model (or a lease/rent relationship), then so be it. I am appalled that they are actually trying to implement this in its present iteration..
The consumer base, rightfully so, is at the castle gates with pitch forks and Bambu has the temerity to gaslight the users into accepting the updated terms -- that dog won't hunt.
If I were to purchase a second printer or eventually replace my current printer, will it be another Bambu? Hell no, not after this charade -- unless they fire the people in their company who came up with this boneheaded idea and apologize to their consumers. Is it too little too late? Nah, it is just too much.
Well said!
name 1 thing it came with that they took away?
@@jimmanis6717 I can explain it for you, but cannot understand it for you -- I urge you to go back and watch the video and other videos on the matter. 😕
@@phil_in_florida so you have no clue, got it, just join in on the mob because that's cool. I have had my X1c for a long time, there isn't a single thing it came with that they have removed or blocked me from using, if anything the feature set has expanded, lots more profiles for 3rd party filaments, hotends and many other things.
@@jimmanis6717The issue here is not what they have done, but what they are proposing to change. I hope that you continue to enjoy your X1C (as I hope to continue to enjoy my Bambu product). You are correct in that they have expanded many features, and that is great. However, they are proposing firmware changes that will limit and restrict others which is an entirely different issue. These proposed changes are going to place an undue burden on others and break their work-flows (some workflows will be broken irreparably -- like using a Panda touch to control multiple machines, for example). In my case, the firmware will break Linux compatibility which currently works perfectly as it stands. In any case, happy printing.
Restrictions are a company killer and I have changed my mind about buying a bambu lab product. I will be looking at Flash forge💖💖🙏🙏👍👍🙏🙏💖💖
i was planning to buy another bambu, but this issue held me back
I am having a lot of fun with my A1, however, I was concerned from the start at buying a Chinese made printer because I do not trust them much. Mine is in Lan only mode and has it's own router. I have only done one firmware upgrade and that was when I first got it six months ago. I was just about to start experimenting with 3rd party filaments. I hope that I have not made a bad choice by going with Bambu Labs. The printer has been flawless by the way. I am getting great results and love the features. Thank you for talking about this.
I own 2 and print offline with an SD. Im like you and have only done 1 update. I will keep mine but i wont buy another one. They are great machines though!
"You will own NOTHING and be happy"........ And be compliant! Ring a bell? I don't own a 3d printer but thought of getting one a while ago. Every single aspect of our lives is going digital through apps on devices. The software on the devices will never be "yours" just because you bought a product/device. Therefore a part (software) of that product will ALWAYS belong to the manufacturer so in the future we will NEVER 100% own anything and will have to comply to someone else's "TERMS" to get through life in everything we do. Bambu are stepping in that direction. Think about it, why is EVERYTHING being pushed to the "cloud"?
as just a hobby printer , I really don't mind.
But i always use bambu studio anyhow, and after having tinkered way to many hours with enders and the like i'm just happy i now have a fire and forget printer in my X1
The instant they did this they became a "never buy" brand. Companies keep trying this, and they'll keep trying it if they're not terrified out of it. The behavior has to stop and if it requires one or more companies to fail so the others get a clue, so be it. Bambu is dead and will forever be dead to me.
"For our current product line"
I worked for many years in consumer electronics, and I can tell you that all a manufacturer needs to do to make a "new product" is change the model number.
This makes me sad. I really like how my X1C "just works" with minimal fiddling. That was the major selling point for me. While I will keep using my X1C, I cannot at this time commit to any future purchases beyond repair components.
As always, greed will take down a company that was the golden child of a community.
I just wrote my own app to communicate with Bambu Connect using LAN mode, and the security is complete BULLSHIT! All you have to do is send a correctly formatted url and Bambu Connect loads the files just fine.
Not just that but if BC is not already open then you must tell it to accept the file, tell it to search for a printer, choose the correct printer, even if there is only one, and tell it to send to the printer. If you decide to leave BC open and connected all the time you still must tell it accept the file and send it to the printer.
So not only is it not secure at all but adds too many steps between the slicer and the printer.
Hopefully using Bambu Connect when not in LAN mode does provide some security, but I'm not sure how it could. Once I get the program tidied up I'll post it to the forums.
Cant wait! Sounds exciting!
If they aren't going to make these changes with the current printers than I will be happy and continue to use the printers I have. It sounds like they have plans going forward that they will force us to use their filament and some sort of subscription plan to use their future printers so I wouldn't purchase any more products like that. It really sucks because they make arguably the best 3D printer on the market and its allowed so many new users to get into 3D printing.
I think you and I are rowing in the same boat my friend!
what they are discussing is a vending machine style device like has been shown in china and korea, you pay the machine and select an item and it prints it for you, so you don't have to own a printer. if that becomes popular than they will use a subscription and locked down filaments to prevent the owner from ripping people off by using el cheapo filament or other scams.
I was gonna get an AMS for my P1S but that plan has been scrapped now.
I'm quite certain that if nothing dramatically changes, I'll never buy a Bambu product again. I'll keep on using my X1C, though. It's a workhorse and the best printer I've ever had, but backstabbing their customers the way they do, like this, is very bad indeed. Let's just hope someone manages to port Klipper to the X1C soon ;)
That would solve a lot of problems!
did they backstab you or did you just listen to people claiming they did? And there is already boards you can use with klipper.
@ The way Bambu treats their customers here, is backstabbing indeed. Not only me. And yes, I'm quite certain I understand how it all sums up. But hey, I don't want to step on the toes of bambu fanboys - keep up the good work and let the rest of us do the thinking ;)
@ I doubt there is any "thinking" going on under that fedora, if you have so much knowledge why haven't you flashed X1plus on there yet? Octoprint instead of klipper based but octo has many more features anyway.
@jimmanis6717 There's no reason to turn this into a personal attack me like that. I'll flash the printer with X1plus once I get home - I'm not, atm, because of a broken femur. The point is that the printer is already authenticating with the Bambu via its serial number and password. The slicer is also authenticated with Bambu via the Bambu username+password. The printer is behi
nd NAT in at least 99% of the cases and the remaining 1% will know what they're doing. The printer doesn't support IPv6 either, so it won't be a problem if the ISP has open IPv6 into the network, like some have. The additional "security" by adding a hidden username+password or key to authenticate the client software with Bambu, is only to limit the users and Bambu knows this ve
ry well. If this is indeed a security measure, then Bambu shouldn't have had the combined mental capacity to create their printers in the first place, so they know what they're doing.
So please stop acting like an a-hole and do go on discussing the case if you have anything to say, but stick to facts and not telling people off just because they know more than you do.
The verge is not a tech website, it's more of a news/ pop culture website
Hmmm... The site definitely seems to have a tech focus to me. It's full of phone, video cards, and google AI articles.
I requested the cancelation of my order. Their response has been horrendous, and there's no trust left. Walking away with my wallet and never buying any BL products again.
That's the response that they'll feel the most!
I had the same experience and non sense crap or how I have to pay to ship back the printer I haven’t even received yet but supposedly shipped… Tell me your shady without telling me your shady. Not to mention the filiment and other parts I can’t return because it’s been more than 14 days 🤬
@@adamhudson6812 chargeback. Even if it’s not approved, it still causes them a headache.
3 minutes into the video. I would also like to add Lan mode is a promise by the machine to not send/recive data. never trust a promise specially from bambu make sure you have your machine firewalled off or air gapped.
I started off with ultimaker and have a few creality printers. I am opening a business and was looking and bambu p1s printers but now probably going to stick with creality. I so far have had a great experience with creality, but i run dji for my drones and thats why i was looking at bambu polished system.
I've got a P1S that i've been working like crazy for the last few months. When BTT comes out with a replacement mainboard, I'll swap it. This affects my future decisions.
You don't need to replace the mainboard, just the firmware. There was not much motivation to hack the P1S before, because it did what we wanted and did it acceptably well. When the firmware update rolls out for the P1S, that will change. I expect a reverse engineered firmware to be released shortly thereafter. Maybe not much in the way of features, but just safeguards to protect the printer from Bambu's shenanigans.
I will say that the language they’re using here is exactly the same kind of language that Adobe was using before they shifted to Creative Cloud. If your files are stored in any way- even in transit- on a cloud server, they can see it, and they will probably secretly save it to train their AI models. I will never buy a 3D printer that does or threatens to ever lock me into using their subscription service, software, or filaments/ resin. This is the very first step into 3D printers going down the expensive, chipped path that companies like HP went with their desktop inkjets. Don’t stand for it now. Don’t stand for it ever. The only way they win is if we ALLOW them to railroad us like this.
Definitely! It's that slippery slope that allows them to gain momentum when people don't raise a fuss.
With all the "not for existing products" caveats it sounds to me that BL is saying the new H2D is going to be "Bambu filament only, subscription based" printer.
I'm fine with companies being closed house IF they make that clear for the start and build from ground up. I have a problem when a company bases everything off others work with contributing anything back and then locks that down. I will not buy another BL printer and have moved away from there filaments. I'm currently looking at there RFID tags and seeing what can do done to replicate and if the key leak help with replicating tags. I'm quiet confident this can be achieved in the coming weeks either by myself or others and shared to the community
Creality and others should take advantage of this situation and have a huge discount sale. 🙂
I have an A1 and have gone to LAN Only mode. I don't trust them to not stealth update my printer... Even if in the end it doesn't have any changes that affect me. It's my equipment and I will choose when and what gets updated to my printer. Far too often there are bugs introduced from what is by and large beta code. As for subscription services, no bloody way. I will definitely choose another option if I am forced to sub to use something. I don't NEED to 3D print... It's a hobby. So since I don't NEED to 3d print, I won't sub. It's not like having to pay for power or Internet. It's not a necessity for me.
Oh and I don't understand why sending a print to my printer, from my computer on the same network has suddenly slowed to a crawl. It should be slower coming from the cloud, shouldn't it? Something is fishy there...
Afraid I have to call BS on point #3. I have 2x P1S printers that have been in LAN only mode for a year that can not be discovered by either Orca Slicer or Bambu Slicer unless they are exposed to the internet. f I put them behind the router firewall (basically making them truly LAN only) I can not access the printers.
The printers are very user/beginner friendly. However my rule of thumb for all hardware and software is if there is a open source option with minimal sacrificing of functionality I'll choose that
Its sad, I recently bought a BL A1 and was amazed. It worked out of the box with an insane quality. My brother got an Artillery 3D printer (dont know the exact model) and he had much more issues with printing.
I immediately cut the WLAN and switched to LAN only mode.
I hope, that the internet does what it does best and there will be something like a jailbreak or CFW for the printer that again allows it being controlled etc. with different slicers.
Its especially annoying, since I am currently creating some smaller things I maybe want to start a small buisness with. Dont get me wrong, I am not even thinking about them "stealing" my designs, since they arent that refined. But its about the principle. I will not send my data over to their server in any way shape or form.
So I will keep on waiting and maybe people that are much smarter concerning things like that will have a solution.
My issue with this is... Why does developer mode require use of LAN only mode (which effectively eliminated any use of cloud services,? They can still secure access to their cloud services while still giving us access to developer mode options... They don't need to be in the lan only mode container... What happens on my side of the router firewall has absolutely zero impact on their secure cloud services. No matter how they spin it, they're taking away features by forcing you to choose between having your devices and software you choose not work, or having the ability to monitor my printer remotely or start prints with Bambu Handy not working. There's no technology reason for developer mode features to require the printer to be in lan only mode.
Exactly, the point was never security it was to force a cloud connection. Why they're doing that is for you to decide, but I think the community at large has already figured it out.
@@kylequinn1963 so nobody saw the Anycubic snake stuff? or the news about the so called third party apps trying to ping the cloud a million requests a second to fish for peoples passwords? I don't blame them for only wanting the cloud to be accessed by their software since the others showed they couldn't be trusted, one bad actor can and often does ruin it for everyone.
@@kylequinn1963 the thing is, I just want to be able to use the cloud services when I want to (like monitoring a print when I'm not home....) and the ability to control my printer any way I like. OrcaSlicer doesn't need cloud to send prints to the printer, as we've already seen it can send prints over the local network... The printer shouldn't need to be in lan ONLY mode to do that.
Let's see their response on the website's Terms of Service.
I won't believe a emailed response to a blog company.
It took me quite a while to build enough trust in Bambu Lab to even order my 1st printer (A1 Combo). I fell in love with the whole ecosystem and just ordered my 2nd A1 Combo (delivery due 1/24). Unfortunately, with this new development, and subsequent "gaslighting" instead of 100% transparency by Bambu, my trust has taken a huge step down. I'm probably going to switch both printers to Lan Mode and not do any firmware updates until such time (and if) Bambu changes their terms and conditions to exclude them basically bricking my printers if I don't allow new firmware updates. (Doing this will already take away some of the features that helped me choose a Bambu printer) A huge part of why I chose the Bambu printer was open ended use of software, non Bambu filaments, networking abilities, etc. Now it seems that Bambu is starting down the slippery slope of limiting important parts of these freedoms, and quite possibly planning even more limitations down the road. The road to hell is paved with good intentions......how well does it get paved when the intentions are nefarious from the start?????? I was suggesting Bambu printers to other potentially new customers, but I have already informed those people to hold off and see where this is going. I will not recommend Bambu printers to anyone until I have that trust built back up by Bambu. Until then, I'll simply recommend one of the equally good newest competitor's printer. There are some really good ones out there now. Thanks for taking the time to share this latest news and your opinions with us!!!
I believe they will keep limiting their systems. Maybe not as fast as intended, because of the outcry, and their current lineup. As it stands tho I will not be buying a bambu printer again.
Remember that like a politician, no company can be held to their terms of service or promises, unless you have a $billion dollar legal fund to sue them. Lies and lies, they are preparing for a subscription revenue model.
Not using industry standards and not changing their strategy after the key is extracted makes them look like fools. I can not trust that anything they produce will actually be secure. Having the slicer/client retain a unique private key and have a public key on the printer is not hard. If security is really their focus.
Whether you agree with what Bambu have done or not they have not handled this situation well. I expect reaction from owners will depend a lot on how they use their printers, I have a stock machine and as long as I can slice and print thru Bambu Studio subscription-free I’m happy, for users that have 3rd party add ons etc or come from a background of tinkering I understand these changes could be a problem. Bambu need to learn from this. The other company that springs to mind is Sonos who have via their software updates disappointed many customers. Thanks for your considered run through you have gained a subscriber.