Totaly agree! the map has a story in its setting, but also a meta-story in its gameplay changes. Very charming! De_Inferno is my all time favourite official map since Source.
CS fans: NOO! This three pixel gap in the wall is too dark! Enemies are too hard to see! Valve MUST fix this immediately! TF2 fans: ah yes, the enemy can shoot through my spawn in this 17 year old map, splendid, I shall wait patiently for 7 eons for a patch, I love this game
Any other valve game fan: "complains about something" A guy that has literally no other game: Its time to mention tf2 in this even thought it has nothing to do with the conversation, gotta say how abandoned and mistreated it is because tf2 is the only thing that matters What 7 years without an update does to a kid What only having one game does to a kid
Changing water pump into a single small pot is like the only change that really feels odd and disappointing, it makes very little sense now, everything else got some environmental storytelling to it or is pretty subtle and subdued without ruining what was there originally.
I dunno a lot of these feel like helping casual players too, like the barrels reducing visibility of enemies and etc, something more experienced player may be more savvy and prepared for than a casual.
Why do you care about the aesthetics of maps? Layout and gameplay matter way more. What do you define as "quirky"? Yes, you could say poor visibility in a competitive game is "quirky" but that doesn't mean it's a good design philosophy.
Wait till you realize that alot of pros, wannabepros and even semi casual players use very low/competitive settings, stretched 4:3 resolution for less input delay and more fps for better gameplay.. so.. in short, they couldnt care less about the new details valve had to offer for them...
Glad you covered this topic , ever since cs2 came out i feel like the player models blend too much with the overall environment no matter the map . Honestly I think they need to work on player models rather than maps for better visibility.
0:08 Ugh, it hurts man. This was "my" counter strike (Not that I ever stopped playing, I still play to this day, but the memories of this era is still incredibly vivid and still what I think of when people say "Counter Strike") and brother, it hurts realizing that so much time has passed, lol.
Idk if you know, but they removed the seagulls from the map. I didn't mention it in the video because the update happened after I had already finished it, but apparently it looked to similar to a flashbang. 🤷♂️
@@LEDs im not that updated on cs news, so map changes would mostly go under my radar, tho as a mapper, i see changes made to maps that i play often in other source games, but mostly all i find are silly mistakes that normal player would never find, but a mapper would in a matter of seconds
@@puskamuha9000 You just told the person with the skill set to make the maps you 'need experience for' to not talk about the thing they would literally be responsible for creating. Mappers absolutely have just as much say in map design as the people who play the game with that map. You sound ridiculous. literally gonna tell mappers not to make maps since they don't know the game and literally nobody gonna be left to make maps for your game at that rate.
That's what happened with CS:GO the maps would release full of life, detail, color. And slowly all of that would be plucked away to make the maps more "competitive"
My old mapping community i just rekindled with, this was one of the heaviest thing we mostly agreed on. It becomes so easy to become distracted in something thats meant to be competitive in reflex and skill. If this game was some longer drawn out conflict in rounds, as the round time is reduced so much from older versions of the game it really matters. As a mapper id say make contentious decisions when designing. Its too easy to be swept into the camp of more details these days but keep your maps use case, ie deathmatch maps could have more detail but timer constraint on maps like de_ should be simpler in design practices.
I've been playing recently with a modified longer timer and it gives you the opportunity to experience the game at a slower pace which helps to appreciate the maps more and tiny details don't matter as much.
Just like all visual assets in video games, maps are a work of art. As long as the originals are preserved, I don't mind them being updated to be less clutered.
As someone who has been playing a lot of the new CS2 inferno maps I honestly couldn't tell a difference between the the visibility on the older and new version, I play on 1080p and I still had no trouble discerning enemies from backgrounds, these changes don't alter much in my opinion and just seems like busy work for Valve when they have other things to worry about then if a milk crate needs to be removed.
I feel like most of the changes are rather minuscule and don't harm the visuals. In fact for most of these I highly doubt that if you never showed me the before and after I would even notice the changes aside from "library". As for the windows removal I don't think the window even looked good anyways but it is an odd removal since it's really not even part of the problem presented.
I think all the maps that is in the competitive pool needs to be kept simple and competitive. They are definitely going in the right direction with all these changes. For more visually appealing maps I think we need to wait until they release a new operation. That’s usually when those types of maps gets their time in the spotlight, and since they are made to play casually most people don’t care about stuff like player visibility or weird clipping
Appreciate you covering the topic! was a good watch. and yeah, reading all the backlash to the post was very interesting 😅main motive is that CS maintains that balance between map design and competitive gameplay
Level designer here, I prefer to map on Goldsrc. In fact all of these new technologies are not truly level design related. Very little has been done to improve the workflow of a level designer, it's all about details now. Unfortunately details can never make up for a lack of level design, and this is why fundamentally most popular Counter-Strike maps started on Goldsrc. I recognize that the charm of CS comes from working within the creative limitation of Goldsrc, so my new CS2 map is actually a ported Goldsrc map and I am doing what I can in order to preserve the real charm of it all. In art, less is always more, and simple is always better than complicated.
I think the complaints about detail being removed are absurd. I doubt they'd be thinking about those spots or details if it was like that from the start. All that's taking people out of the game, are themselves. To complain on Twitter. There's nothing "unimmersive" about a single wall out of many not being packed with distracting objects. Kudos to Valve for all these changes! Even ones like windows being removed. It's not just about players not being directly obscured- it's about being able to quickly parse everything that's onscreen. Surrounding clutter adds just that teeny bit of extra time for your brain to interpret things. Even more-so for some autistic people (*like me*) who can struggle deciphering and navigating cluttered, visually-noisy environments. I consider this an accessibility win with zero downside to anyone. I personally struggle with most modern games due to this and wish more games gave the slightest of a damn.
It's not that black and white. A wall isn't either "detailed" or "not detailed." Some parts can be extremely detailed with no gameplay implications, while others need to be thought about carefully. Counter-Strike has always tried to look real, so it only makes sense to make maps look as real as they can.
Maybe a hot take but here we go: For official tournaments and in premier mode, each map should have a set of default agents with good visibility for that specific map theme to avoid these issues popping up as much in general. No green agents hiding in a bush in a random corner. Then for the more casual modes let people use whatever agents they want. Hopefully this would mean less changes needed to the map details themselves for visibility in competitive scenarios, though I think realistically whatever the art style there will always be case where changes might have to be made for visibility.
I think these nerd games aka supercompetitives should just have maps consisting of white textures for the walls, grey for the floor, color for team games, and have players be colored hitboxes holding hypredetailed Strange Unusual cherry blossom AWP with gigascope customs. That way no one can complain about visibility and so they can leave the detailing of maps to games that actually need it because they’re not so focused about the competitive aspect and would just put some damn rim lighting on their characters…ahem…
A tactical shooter is based on real life scenarios. Real life does not have boards covering up barrels to help with "visibility". They're just a bunch of crybabies blaming a map feature on their bad playing :)
@@gui18bif counter-strike isn't about realism it's a game. Getting shot because you can't see the enemy might be realistic but it's not fun. go play arma if you want "realism".
Counter strike being realistic lmao, these people are delusional. Oh yeah, real life scenario 5 x 5 with weapons that take 10 shoots to kill you, that's a real life scenario for you there
yeah there is potential in that idea. the problem is, that these spots are often an accident. it would be way better if there was a clear intentional spot, where that kind of mechanic is part of the map. additionally, the maps in this game are like 20 years old, so i think this gimmick should only be added to new maps
I think the problem with CSGO 2 is part of why tf2 works well. The CSGO character are using much monotone shades of color, which blends in extremely easily with background that has much more shade in the area, its similar to a camoflage effectiveness in a deeply vegetated area. The right balance to make someone stand out yet not make it feel empty is crucial. So to make sure that it feels like you're in a forest but yet making you spottable is the main goal. Translating that to the map, i think the detail isnt the problem but rather how well the detail hides the player. Since some detail can still let player be easy to spot nonetheless
And with TF2, being noticed usually doesn't mean instant annihilation (unless you face a sniper), which is why running around with unusual effects doesn't ruin the experience
Hey LED, You should refrain from deleting comments that point out you using Wolfcl0ck's footage at 0:34 without his permission. Instead, you should record your own footage or get footage from someone else (make sure you have their permission this time!)
@@M.F.Hafizhan You missed the point, it's not about legality, using someone else's work without crediting or giving permission is quite distasteful. It's even worse that LED deleted Wolfcl0ck's comment and blocked him so he couldn't speak about it.
I used one second of his footage, and it falls under fair use. I would've credited him if he asked nicely, but he decided not to do that, and instead left a very hateful comment both here and on Steam. I will not tolerate that kind of behavior on my channel.
@@LEDs Refer to my reply to M.F.Hafizhan. Whether someone asks nicely or not doesn't determine whether you give that person credit or get their permission to use their work. The comment wasn't hateful either, it was aggressive and he did come across as angry, sure, but he was justified because it was his work. Wolfcl0ck is the type of person who hates it when you use his work without permission, that's how he is and you should respect that. You deleting his comment was a not a good look because it makes it look like you're trying to hide something. What was even the point of that, actually?
I think those final parts you talk about around 5:12 were more to guide players in the right direction, instead of with regards to visibility. For example, the cubby outside of boiler appeared just large enough to crouch in, when in reality was completely clipped off. It seems that by making the cubby shorter, this eliminates any confusion for newer players who think they can crouch underneath it.
I feel the real takeaway here is that artpassing is wasted on competitive games cause comp players dont care at all and would much rather play in the grayboxed level before any artpassing was done.
One big point to make. Over-detailing in games is becoming an accessibility issue. I'm visually impaired, and in newer games I often have issues where I can't see what's going on amid all the details. It's much harder for me to play something like Halo MMC's new graphics vs the original graphics option for this reason. It's also difficult because any accessibility feature you add in options to increase readability will be an advantage for people who don't necessarily need it, which will lead to community backlash over it becoming optimal play to have it enabled.
I think that the game needs to balance the player visibility more but keep the style of the maps intact. some clutter can be seen as bad but I think as long as important sightlines have decently flat walls and a contrasting colour on them you can keep geometry detail.
Tf? Detailed? Most of them damn window r disaligned from both sides, i mean like the outdoor side of a window is small and upper and the inner one is large and lower, same for balconies and lots other stuff that could be fckd up. I mean like did u even notice that there is no gahdamn door leading to those?? Is it some kinda non Euclidian spaces or what?! And same for nuke like there a lot of pipes r disaligned asf i mean once with an yellow valve in the middle and other loads of those "give no shit" from developers all around the game
I think way Valve's handling changes so far is completely fine. All the changes still make sense in the context of the world and there's no part of the map's design that is only justifiable in a competitive context. If it doesn't undermine the art direction and doesn't look out of place I see no reason to complain about anything that provides a better gameplay experience. Detail for detail's sake doesn't make a game better, but being able to see the guy who's capable of one-shoting you certainly does.
I hate when crybabies on Reddit takeover and force valve to change unnecessary stuff to only have them say it was better before and valve is left scratching their head. As a map maker myself, while feedback is appreciated and I am always open to them, I’ve come to realize that most people that provide feedback don’t know anything about maps and I rarely do make changes on feedback.
It's ultimately your map and your choice, and there are certain quirks/gimmicks that can be erased if one listens too closely to what others have to say.
Some of these changes are good but others just remove the little details i like about CS maps. Especially now that we have Source 2, the goal is to make the maps look really good and not outdated like Source 1 CS. I like the celler room and balcony change though.
On one end I'm not fan of mp maps being sterelized in videogames, on the other hand CS has been doing this for years already. A good example is the classic traffic cone kill in Halo 3, whereas recently in Infinite most props have been removed from maps. Interactive detail can help to mix up gameplay. For CS it allows for players to use the environment in more creative ways, standing on crates, crouching on backgrounds etc. It may feel unfair and it might be, but maybe it's just part of the game to also be aware of your environments too. Pretty sure similar cases have happened irl. Of course, then there are things like hiding in a dark corner never to be seen, which is rather overpowered. I guess for CS it's a bit hard to say, while competitive is a core gameplay of CS, and comp match making was officially added on GO, I think CS wasn't meant to be such originally. But what do I know.
@@LEDs I think players do similar things on all games, be hiding in a corner of a doorframe or standing on top of something. I think the best way to put it is like playing Spy in TF2, taking advantage of the environment to sneak around and surprise enemies. I think it's a matter of how easy is to pull off vs how fair is it. Hiding in a bad lit corner is not the same to be exposed while jumping on top of a box. Hiding in plain sight can be weighted on CS by map asymmetry (easy for CTs but not for TS, etc) bit still a controversial take. At best make geometry and detail a different color I'd think.
Good video, but the reason for switching to source 2 was more that source 1 was older than a sizeable chunk of the player base. The engine was a mess and horrible to work with, and would break frequently. The bonus is allowing for more detail 😁
In my opinion the detail shouldn't have been removed. I am not 100% on that, for example the wooden panel in Library is fine, but casing the barrel so people can't climb is damaging to gameplay and tactics. Also the rail WAS on CS:GO and nobody actuly cared. I rly think that people are ranting on everything in CS2 just because there is nothing else to rant about. Subtick is fine for gunplay but the >ANIMATIONS< are off. Maps are ok and, unless you're blind and can't see the fifference between dark blue/dark brown and middle gray you should not be the one complaining :/. CS2 is amazing. What I think Valve should focus on is, in this order, Anti-cheat, Matchmaking, removed maps, visual feedback for hitting/missing(for better info's) and subtick animations
I feel like the problem is a kind of inherent part of the genre. Realism is not a good artstyle for many things, in terms of player recognition it will always be worse than more simplistic artstyle [like what tf2 has] where the enemies can have brightly coloured clothes and so on. But irl ofc both sides want to look invisible. games are about fun interactions and mechanics. If rdr2 has shrinking horse testicles it doesn't mean every game has to go for that direction. So, how does the detail and all of this complexity contribute to thee gameplay? There are ways to have a complex looking maps where seing the enemy may not be the easiest, but not for a very seriously competitive game.
I’m late to the discussion here but if competitive players solely cared for how a map plays and how well it runs then they’d be playing on untextured maps with bare bones lighting. But that makes for a dreadful experience when viewing tournaments and for casual players where visuals do matter more. The reason why details exist above and out of the level where they don’t affect gameplay is to make the viewing experience better
I like more minimalistic designs. I think it does have too much details. It feels more like Source 2 grapchics showcase then actual Counter-Strike. Back then Valve did the same thing on Ancient becouse there was too many rock models that was on the floor. Then got update, removed a lot (sure it looked worse) but you got a lot more fps.
In other words: no, it is not too pretty. Actually the comp scene is too sensitive for gameplay elements not established in the narrow meta of the game. This has been seen observed and critized in SSBM community where traditional glorification of horizontal maps like final destination which favors specific gameplay and essentially leaves potential of many characters unrealized. Multiple leagues recently have allowed more diverse stage options: even Poke Floats. This also has affected TF2 at some 2014-ish point; Valve apparently had taken some feedback from some pro TF2 players about weapon balances. Valve then buffed Phlog and Short Circuit based on their feedback, resulting in a catastrophe on Quick Play servers with 12v12 people. The pros had given honest feedback to valve with their own experience which is 6v6 and highlander. There mass spam isn't an issue and matches are highly organized. Takeaway is that comp usually narrows down freedom of expression to a minimum and should be taken as a side dish and not the main course.
Less is more. But - you could go valorant's route of removing all details away from sight lines. And that would make stuff boring quickly. There should be details in sightlines, but they shouldn't be super hard to see like those before barrels. And could be not in frequent areas.
These are good changes imo, makes the map more readable and helps playablity without just removing all detail and compromising the visuals, more doesn't always mean better, also gameplay > visuals for any game imo
Gameplay > visuals, but also more clutter doesn't mean better visuals. IMO the only odd change to Inferno here was the fountain. Not because the wall is too flat or plain, but because the cubby that replaced the fountain just looks weird to me. I'd rather a mostly flat wall at that point.
They can add as much details as they want outside the playable space. Yes it's nice that the game looks "good" now but the core of counter-strike is a tactical shooter.
It seems like most competitive cs players don't like it when there are hiding spots and would rather the game devolve into reflex based reactions in an environment where the players are easy to see. It's why all the maps are so overly bright, any properly dark areas with actual grit to them are not deemed "competitive"
Situations where you cant see your opponent clearly, like dark spots, blending in, etc are often unintentional and are left in without thought. This causes these situations to feel like your opponent had an unfair advantage or feel more random because they didn't consciously make a decision based on being hard to see. The problem with dedicated spots on a map is that one-way vision while being able to damage your opponent is too strong of an advantage that isnt fun to fight. And if it was something as simple as a spot on a map, it wouldn't be earned with any real effort, you simply just go there. One-way smokes in CS:GO arent too different from this and were hated for the same reasons. Not much effort, too strong, not fun to fight against. It feels undeserved for someone who plays a lot because they dont really require you to outsmart your opponent or outplay them with your mechanics.
@@surdukks2219 Depends on the player. Some people just like to goof around casually. I remember back in the old version of Train, there was a dark corner next to the stairs. Everyone from my team was dead and there were like 5 guys going around in a group searching for me. I stood in the dark spot facing away from the stairs so that my gun wouldn't poke out. Then I heard footsteps, I waited for a bit and poked out of the dark spot. To my surprise it was the entire enemy team in a conga line snooping around trying to find me. Their situational awareness was so bad I managed run up behind them and stab all 5 of them with a knife. Everyone had a laugh about how ridiculous it was. Good times.
@@hpp676 Yea I get that having silly or broken maps with cool little spots you can go to is fun, insersion 2 for example was a very fun map. But current 5v5 CS is a competitive mode where you try to win, which means things like that can be frustrating. "casual players" who complain about "sweaty tryhards" often neglect the fact that for the people that try to win, its a very fun game to try your best at and feels very rewarding. But i definitely think competitive maps have so much unexplored potential, most of the current pool is just a variation of a dust2 3lane map. Nuke is a very unique map that breaks the mold, and very fun for both casual and more sweaty players.
The desire for Source 2 was for better optimization and netcode. I'd rather be playing 1.6 maps than have water reflections that tank FPS and extinguishing mollies stuttering.
I really don't like how people use the word immersion as if it means realism. Half-life is very immersive and so was CS 1.6, because it feels like you your self are running around on those maps planting bombs and shooting enemies, you forgot that it's just a game where you're controlling a character - it really has nothing to do with realism.
I disagree. Keep the clutter. But I’m not a pro gamer so I don’t really care about player visibility due to clutter. They just made these maps uglier and less fun to play in
I disagree with this. Nobody seems to understand the accessibility angle on this. (Or they just refuse to.) I'm autistic and personally struggle with modern games, casual or not, due to excessive detail. Not just stuff directly obscuring things, but clutter surrounding objects can make it harder to see. I can hold my own to some extent against, as an example, unreasonably hard modded Hollow Knight bosses like Any Radiance once you remove the visual clutter through mods, but struggle with even vanilla content due to all the particle effects, glowing, etc in that game. I'll get hit by slow, "obvious" things or lose track of myself because i effectively go partially blind when my brain can't interpret visually chaotic segments of the screen. It's frustrating and disheartening seeing everyone tossing negativity towards these changes that i wish every game would do, while insulting dismissing people who asked for it.
I agree with this video. The Library and Balcony changes are perfect as no detail was lost but it enhanced the gameplay, where shrinkage of the inlets (for a lack of better words) only serves to remove/decrease detail while not noticeably increasing gameplay.
I feel like the "issue" with the spot by Banana was that the backdrop was too dark, so maybe they could've just added a light to reduce the contrast instead of shrinking it
I am still mad they removed csgo from my hard drive and made access to it way harder, hence effectively breaking and killing one of the best games I honestly cannot understand why big companies act like that: valve killing csgo and tf2, google trying to kill youtube, mojang trying to kill minecraft I really don't want internet to devolve like this
In an interview not too long ago, Valve actually explained why: Because they knew the CS community is too stubborn and wouldn't bother trying CS2 too much. So, the only way to get them to play it is to force them to. And CS2 overall is supposed to end up being an overall update to CSGO so either way you'd end up with this. As for TF2, they're not trying to kill it, they just stopped bothering to support it. And given it went on for over a decade before the final proper update being the Jungle Inferno one, that's still FAR longer than most games get.
@@gimok2k5 yeah some people would want to continue playing the game they like instead of a barely functioning replacement and valve can't have that because it would drop the skin market and gambling revenue imagine thinking this is a good argument
@@gimok2k5 I get it, but that is such a lame excuse to push out an objectively inferior in almost every way product cs2 being so bad really doesn't help with the players being stubborn, does it? all the commonly mentioned reasons aside, I personally really enjoyed community servers, but they were barely alive(browser being spammed, good servers almost empty) after lockdown due to neglect from valve for decades cs2 is the nail in the coffin for them as for tf2, that is true and the game is full of content(hard to add more things that would fit, but not yet impossible), but there is still a lot devs should do and reapetedly mismange it
@@richardvlasek2445 Knowing the CS community: It is. Because I am 100% they would not touch CS2 for several YEARS simply because it's not CSGO. And considering how pissy some people act shows that Valve did the correct thing because all those people wouldn't play CS2 at all.
If someone genuinely cares about immersion in CS then they should go play a different game. Valve could replace every single map with a dev graybox version and I would not care in the slightest. Of course they would never do that because of player count and viewership reasons, but for me personally I wouldn't care.
most people wouldn't care, the gameplay loop is what's important and the graphics are just sugar on top. just look at the best-selling video game of all time minecraft
@@xandii4694 I disagree, I think most experienced players wouldn't care but a lot of casual players would stop playing. Little Jimmy that plays an hour a week probably wouldn't like staring at gray walls.
yes and its literally only to showcase how cool their new graphics engine is literally the same thing when they ported 1.6 maps to source and just showered them with breakable windows and random physics props littered everywhere to convince people to play the new (inferior) product of course back then we didn't have cadres of weirdos that dedicate most of their online presence to crying about people who like competing in videogames
I love the details they added when making the changes, instead of just removing parts they gave it a story and a reason to be different
Same, while they don't/can't do this in every case, it's incredible how they did it with Library and Balcony
Totaly agree! the map has a story in its setting, but also a meta-story in its gameplay changes. Very charming!
De_Inferno is my all time favourite official map since Source.
CS fans: NOO! This three pixel gap in the wall is too dark! Enemies are too hard to see! Valve MUST fix this immediately!
TF2 fans: ah yes, the enemy can shoot through my spawn in this 17 year old map, splendid, I shall wait patiently for 7 eons for a patch, I love this game
Any other valve game fan: "complains about something"
A guy that has literally no other game: Its time to mention tf2 in this even thought it has nothing to do with the conversation, gotta say how abandoned and mistreated it is because tf2 is the only thing that matters
What 7 years without an update does to a kid
What only having one game does to a kid
The change at 3:25 is one I'm a little bitter about. It was a really nice fountain before
Yeah, I'm still torn about that change
Looks the same lol
Changing water pump into a single small pot is like the only change that really feels odd and disappointing, it makes very little sense now, everything else got some environmental storytelling to it or is pretty subtle and subdued without ruining what was there originally.
I feel tired of all the maps being designed for pros only. As a more casual player I find quirky maps fun.
Next thing you know they're turning every wall orange to help pros
I dunno a lot of these feel like helping casual players too, like the barrels reducing visibility of enemies and etc, something more experienced player may be more savvy and prepared for than a casual.
Why do you care about the aesthetics of maps? Layout and gameplay matter way more. What do you define as "quirky"? Yes, you could say poor visibility in a competitive game is "quirky" but that doesn't mean it's a good design philosophy.
Wait till you realize that alot of pros, wannabepros and even semi casual players use very low/competitive settings, stretched 4:3 resolution for less input delay and more fps for better gameplay..
so..
in short, they couldnt care less about the new details valve had to offer for them...
@@saad_vigod, i hate metagaming.
Glad you covered this topic , ever since cs2 came out i feel like the player models blend too much with the overall environment no matter the map . Honestly I think they need to work on player models rather than maps for better visibility.
0:08 Ugh, it hurts man. This was "my" counter strike (Not that I ever stopped playing, I still play to this day, but the memories of this era is still incredibly vivid and still what I think of when people say "Counter Strike") and brother, it hurts realizing that so much time has passed, lol.
I hope they wont remove more and more details, it really kills the looks of the map, especially if youre a mapper yourself
Idk if you know, but they removed the seagulls from the map. I didn't mention it in the video because the update happened after I had already finished it, but apparently it looked to similar to a flashbang. 🤷♂️
@@LEDs im not that updated on cs news, so map changes would mostly go under my radar, tho as a mapper, i see changes made to maps that i play often in other source games, but mostly all i find are silly mistakes that normal player would never find, but a mapper would in a matter of seconds
stay a mapper then and dont say anything about cs if you arent experienced PLEASE
@@puskamuha9000 You just told the person with the skill set to make the maps you 'need experience for' to not talk about the thing they would literally be responsible for creating. Mappers absolutely have just as much say in map design as the people who play the game with that map. You sound ridiculous. literally gonna tell mappers not to make maps since they don't know the game and literally nobody gonna be left to make maps for your game at that rate.
That's what happened with CS:GO the maps would release full of life, detail, color. And slowly all of that would be plucked away to make the maps more "competitive"
My old mapping community i just rekindled with, this was one of the heaviest thing we mostly agreed on. It becomes so easy to become distracted in something thats meant to be competitive in reflex and skill. If this game was some longer drawn out conflict in rounds, as the round time is reduced so much from older versions of the game it really matters. As a mapper id say make contentious decisions when designing. Its too easy to be swept into the camp of more details these days but keep your maps use case, ie deathmatch maps could have more detail but timer constraint on maps like de_ should be simpler in design practices.
I've been playing recently with a modified longer timer and it gives you the opportunity to experience the game at a slower pace which helps to appreciate the maps more and tiny details don't matter as much.
Please make longer videos, doesnt matter cs2 or tf2, we like both
Yeah man same
When I make a video, I go until I feel like I've said what has needed to be said, so some videos are longer than others
Just like all visual assets in video games, maps are a work of art. As long as the originals are preserved, I don't mind them being updated to be less clutered.
As someone who has been playing a lot of the new CS2 inferno maps I honestly couldn't tell a difference between the the visibility on the older and new version, I play on 1080p and I still had no trouble discerning enemies from backgrounds, these changes don't alter much in my opinion and just seems like busy work for Valve when they have other things to worry about then if a milk crate needs to be removed.
Yeah, most of us probably didn't even notice until now, but it's worth pointing out since this kind of stuff matters to a lot of people
I feel like most of the changes are rather minuscule and don't harm the visuals. In fact for most of these I highly doubt that if you never showed me the before and after I would even notice the changes aside from "library". As for the windows removal I don't think the window even looked good anyways but it is an odd removal since it's really not even part of the problem presented.
Maybe whoever put it there in the first place decided that they didn't like it so they took it away? Who knows
I think can find a balance between gameplay and visual details. For everything that was removed from De_inferno, the map still looks really good.
I think all the maps that is in the competitive pool needs to be kept simple and competitive. They are definitely going in the right direction with all these changes. For more visually appealing maps I think we need to wait until they release a new operation. That’s usually when those types of maps gets their time in the spotlight, and since they are made to play casually most people don’t care about stuff like player visibility or weird clipping
5:18 "A crouching terrorist is pretty difficult to see"
Appreciate you covering the topic! was a good watch. and yeah, reading all the backlash to the post was very interesting 😅main motive is that CS maintains that balance between map design and competitive gameplay
Valve: declutters inferno for gameplay
Player model skins: 👁️👄👁️
4:46 captions say “Valve was able to PERVERSE” when @LED said “Valve was able to PRESERVE”
Fixed, thanks
Level designer here, I prefer to map on Goldsrc. In fact all of these new technologies are not truly level design related. Very little has been done to improve the workflow of a level designer, it's all about details now. Unfortunately details can never make up for a lack of level design, and this is why fundamentally most popular Counter-Strike maps started on Goldsrc. I recognize that the charm of CS comes from working within the creative limitation of Goldsrc, so my new CS2 map is actually a ported Goldsrc map and I am doing what I can in order to preserve the real charm of it all. In art, less is always more, and simple is always better than complicated.
There is a certain charm to GoldSrc knowing how much of the mapping consists of world geometry and limited texture fidelity.
I think the complaints about detail being removed are absurd. I doubt they'd be thinking about those spots or details if it was like that from the start. All that's taking people out of the game, are themselves. To complain on Twitter. There's nothing "unimmersive" about a single wall out of many not being packed with distracting objects.
Kudos to Valve for all these changes! Even ones like windows being removed. It's not just about players not being directly obscured- it's about being able to quickly parse everything that's onscreen. Surrounding clutter adds just that teeny bit of extra time for your brain to interpret things. Even more-so for some autistic people (*like me*) who can struggle deciphering and navigating cluttered, visually-noisy environments. I consider this an accessibility win with zero downside to anyone.
I personally struggle with most modern games due to this and wish more games gave the slightest of a damn.
It's not that black and white. A wall isn't either "detailed" or "not detailed." Some parts can be extremely detailed with no gameplay implications, while others need to be thought about carefully. Counter-Strike has always tried to look real, so it only makes sense to make maps look as real as they can.
Maybe a hot take but here we go:
For official tournaments and in premier mode, each map should have a set of default agents with good visibility for that specific map theme to avoid these issues popping up as much in general. No green agents hiding in a bush in a random corner. Then for the more casual modes let people use whatever agents they want. Hopefully this would mean less changes needed to the map details themselves for visibility in competitive scenarios, though I think realistically whatever the art style there will always be case where changes might have to be made for visibility.
I think these nerd games aka supercompetitives should just have maps consisting of white textures for the walls, grey for the floor, color for team games, and have players be colored hitboxes holding hypredetailed Strange Unusual cherry blossom AWP with gigascope customs.
That way no one can complain about visibility and so they can leave the detailing of maps to games that actually need it because they’re not so focused about the competitive aspect and would just put some damn rim lighting on their characters…ahem…
bro out here making source film maker team fortress 2 meme animations and still has the balls to call games other people like "nerd games" lmaoo
A tactical shooter is based on real life scenarios. Real life does not have boards covering up barrels to help with "visibility".
They're just a bunch of crybabies blaming a map feature on their bad playing :)
@@gui18bif right! either you go realistic (and boy, mouse aim is not realistic) or they go gaming and forget the realistic aspect.
@@gui18bif counter-strike isn't about realism it's a game. Getting shot because you can't see the enemy might be realistic but it's not fun. go play arma if you want "realism".
Counter strike being realistic lmao, these people are delusional. Oh yeah, real life scenario
5 x 5 with weapons that take 10 shoots to kill you, that's a real life scenario for you there
i really hate sacrificing map quality for competitive gameplay.
Hot take: comp games should let you use your surroundings like shadows or props as covers
yeah there is potential in that idea. the problem is, that these spots are often an accident. it would be way better if there was a clear intentional spot, where that kind of mechanic is part of the map. additionally, the maps in this game are like 20 years old, so i think this gimmick should only be added to new maps
I love the way you get in depth into mechanics while keeping up a fast paced fun energy in your videos. Huge fan of your work man, keep it up!
I appreciate that!
I think the problem with CSGO 2 is part of why tf2 works well.
The CSGO character are using much monotone shades of color, which blends in extremely easily with background that has much more shade in the area, its similar to a camoflage effectiveness in a deeply vegetated area.
The right balance to make someone stand out yet not make it feel empty is crucial. So to make sure that it feels like you're in a forest but yet making you spottable is the main goal. Translating that to the map, i think the detail isnt the problem but rather how well the detail hides the player. Since some detail can still let player be easy to spot nonetheless
And with TF2, being noticed usually doesn't mean instant annihilation (unless you face a sniper), which is why running around with unusual effects doesn't ruin the experience
Hey LED, You should refrain from deleting comments that point out you using Wolfcl0ck's footage at 0:34 without his permission. Instead, you should record your own footage or get footage from someone else (make sure you have their permission this time!)
Eh, seems like fair use to me
@@M.F.Hafizhan You missed the point, it's not about legality, using someone else's work without crediting or giving permission is quite distasteful. It's even worse that LED deleted Wolfcl0ck's comment and blocked him so he couldn't speak about it.
I used one second of his footage, and it falls under fair use. I would've credited him if he asked nicely, but he decided not to do that, and instead left a very hateful comment both here and on Steam. I will not tolerate that kind of behavior on my channel.
@@LEDs Why not take the footage out then?
@@LEDs Refer to my reply to M.F.Hafizhan. Whether someone asks nicely or not doesn't determine whether you give that person credit or get their permission to use their work. The comment wasn't hateful either, it was aggressive and he did come across as angry, sure, but he was justified because it was his work. Wolfcl0ck is the type of person who hates it when you use his work without permission, that's how he is and you should respect that.
You deleting his comment was a not a good look because it makes it look like you're trying to hide something. What was even the point of that, actually?
I think those final parts you talk about around 5:12 were more to guide players in the right direction, instead of with regards to visibility. For example, the cubby outside of boiler appeared just large enough to crouch in, when in reality was completely clipped off. It seems that by making the cubby shorter, this eliminates any confusion for newer players who think they can crouch underneath it.
This is exactly why I don't play competitive games. The nitpicking is insane
I feel the real takeaway here is that artpassing is wasted on competitive games cause comp players dont care at all and would much rather play in the grayboxed level before any artpassing was done.
One big point to make. Over-detailing in games is becoming an accessibility issue. I'm visually impaired, and in newer games I often have issues where I can't see what's going on amid all the details.
It's much harder for me to play something like Halo MMC's new graphics vs the original graphics option for this reason.
It's also difficult because any accessibility feature you add in options to increase readability will be an advantage for people who don't necessarily need it, which will lead to community backlash over it becoming optimal play to have it enabled.
I love how versatile source is
I like how the map changes actually have an environmental reason to them, not just directly removed
True, up until the most recent patch
@@LEDs oof
if they want to see players let them just install config that makes whole map white and players pink
some props are hidden on lower directx levels
Or a white texture pack, so those no life dorks can finally have true competitive experience.
If they could they would, but they can't
You tell me man...
There's still a ton of details, I don't see any problem with these changes.
I think that the game needs to balance the player visibility more but keep the style of the maps intact. some clutter can be seen as bad but I think as long as important sightlines have decently flat walls and a contrasting colour on them you can keep geometry detail.
Tf? Detailed? Most of them damn window r disaligned from both sides, i mean like the outdoor side of a window is small and upper and the inner one is large and lower, same for balconies and lots other stuff that could be fckd up. I mean like did u even notice that there is no gahdamn door leading to those?? Is it some kinda non Euclidian spaces or what?! And same for nuke like there a lot of pipes r disaligned asf i mean once with an yellow valve in the middle and other loads of those "give no shit" from developers all around the game
I think way Valve's handling changes so far is completely fine. All the changes still make sense in the context of the world and there's no part of the map's design that is only justifiable in a competitive context. If it doesn't undermine the art direction and doesn't look out of place I see no reason to complain about anything that provides a better gameplay experience.
Detail for detail's sake doesn't make a game better, but being able to see the guy who's capable of one-shoting you certainly does.
I'm on the side of gameplay over graphics. As long as I can see important details (i.e. enemies) clearly, it's good.
I hate when crybabies on Reddit takeover and force valve to change unnecessary stuff to only have them say it was better before and valve is left scratching their head. As a map maker myself, while feedback is appreciated and I am always open to them, I’ve come to realize that most people that provide feedback don’t know anything about maps and I rarely do make changes on feedback.
It's ultimately your map and your choice, and there are certain quirks/gimmicks that can be erased if one listens too closely to what others have to say.
great video! nice work, i love the topics you choose
Some of these changes are good but others just remove the little details i like about CS maps. Especially now that we have Source 2, the goal is to make the maps look really good and not outdated like Source 1 CS.
I like the celler room and balcony change though.
On one end I'm not fan of mp maps being sterelized in videogames, on the other hand CS has been doing this for years already.
A good example is the classic traffic cone kill in Halo 3, whereas recently in Infinite most props have been removed from maps. Interactive detail can help to mix up gameplay.
For CS it allows for players to use the environment in more creative ways, standing on crates, crouching on backgrounds etc. It may feel unfair and it might be, but maybe it's just part of the game to also be aware of your environments too. Pretty sure similar cases have happened irl.
Of course, then there are things like hiding in a dark corner never to be seen, which is rather overpowered.
I guess for CS it's a bit hard to say, while competitive is a core gameplay of CS, and comp match making was officially added on GO, I think CS wasn't meant to be such originally. But what do I know.
I like that argument you bring up of players having to learn their environments. That adds an extra element of complexity to this whole situation
@@LEDs I think players do similar things on all games, be hiding in a corner of a doorframe or standing on top of something. I think the best way to put it is like playing Spy in TF2, taking advantage of the environment to sneak around and surprise enemies.
I think it's a matter of how easy is to pull off vs how fair is it. Hiding in a bad lit corner is not the same to be exposed while jumping on top of a box.
Hiding in plain sight can be weighted on CS by map asymmetry (easy for CTs but not for TS, etc) bit still a controversial take. At best make geometry and detail a different color I'd think.
nooooo i cant use weird janky angles that arent fun to fight its too sterile
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 People's attention span has been decreasing I see.
@@XradicalDso you want me to reread all the dumb noskill shit you just said? no way bro.
Good video, but the reason for switching to source 2 was more that source 1 was older than a sizeable chunk of the player base. The engine was a mess and horrible to work with, and would break frequently. The bonus is allowing for more detail 😁
Yeah, it basically just makes everything better (once all of the bugs are ironed out!)
Pretty sure the bullet holes aren't 3d. They use parallax occlusion
You're correct, I just said 3D because they appear that way. If you shoot the corner of a wall and look from the side, it starts to look all wonky
A chess board is only 8x8 but it provides nearly unlimited possibilities.
In my opinion the detail shouldn't have been removed.
I am not 100% on that, for example the wooden panel in Library is fine, but casing the barrel so people can't climb is damaging to gameplay and tactics.
Also the rail WAS on CS:GO and nobody actuly cared.
I rly think that people are ranting on everything in CS2 just because there is nothing else to rant about.
Subtick is fine for gunplay but the >ANIMATIONS< are off. Maps are ok and, unless you're blind and can't see the fifference between dark blue/dark brown and middle gray you should not be the one complaining :/.
CS2 is amazing. What I think Valve should focus on is, in this order, Anti-cheat, Matchmaking, removed maps, visual feedback for hitting/missing(for better info's) and subtick animations
I feel like the problem is a kind of inherent part of the genre. Realism is not a good artstyle for many things, in terms of player recognition it will always be worse than more simplistic artstyle [like what tf2 has] where the enemies can have brightly coloured clothes and so on. But irl ofc both sides want to look invisible.
games are about fun interactions and mechanics. If rdr2 has shrinking horse testicles it doesn't mean every game has to go for that direction. So, how does the detail and all of this complexity contribute to thee gameplay?
There are ways to have a complex looking maps where seing the enemy may not be the easiest, but not for a very seriously competitive game.
I’m late to the discussion here but if competitive players solely cared for how a map plays and how well it runs then they’d be playing on untextured maps with bare bones lighting. But that makes for a dreadful experience when viewing tournaments and for casual players where visuals do matter more. The reason why details exist above and out of the level where they don’t affect gameplay is to make the viewing experience better
Yup, and Valve keeps removing more and more detail from this map, with the recent update being a huge blow to banana and mid.
I like more minimalistic designs. I think it does have too much details. It feels more like Source 2 grapchics showcase then actual Counter-Strike. Back then Valve did the same thing on Ancient becouse there was too many rock models that was on the floor. Then got update, removed a lot (sure it looked worse) but you got a lot more fps.
This is why competitive games are for terrible
vending machines on nuke wont bust...
whats the difference on the fountain at 3:44?
The water level was lowered to “improve bomb visibility,” according to the patch notes.
In other words: no, it is not too pretty. Actually the comp scene is too sensitive for gameplay elements not established in the narrow meta of the game.
This has been seen observed and critized in SSBM community where traditional glorification of horizontal maps like final destination which favors specific gameplay and essentially leaves potential of many characters unrealized. Multiple leagues recently have allowed more diverse stage options: even Poke Floats.
This also has affected TF2 at some 2014-ish point; Valve apparently had taken some feedback from some pro TF2 players about weapon balances. Valve then buffed Phlog and Short Circuit based on their feedback, resulting in a catastrophe on Quick Play servers with 12v12 people.
The pros had given honest feedback to valve with their own experience which is 6v6 and highlander. There mass spam isn't an issue and matches are highly organized.
Takeaway is that comp usually narrows down freedom of expression to a minimum and should be taken as a side dish and not the main course.
No. No it is not. It's beautiful
The maps should have the original vision and a separate version for pro play plus edits/changes.
It would've been really easy to make the seagulls a toggleable option instead of outright removing them.
Valve used to do that and called the competitive version "se" (eg : dust2_se) but they realized that maintaining both versions can be challenging
It's not just a competitive, but a spectator sport also
there was no issue with inferno
Less is more.
But - you could go valorant's route of removing all details away from sight lines. And that would make stuff boring quickly. There should be details in sightlines, but they shouldn't be super hard to see like those before barrels. And could be not in frequent areas.
These are good changes imo, makes the map more readable and helps playablity without just removing all detail and compromising the visuals, more doesn't always mean better, also gameplay > visuals for any game imo
Gameplay > visuals, but also more clutter doesn't mean better visuals. IMO the only odd change to Inferno here was the fountain. Not because the wall is too flat or plain, but because the cubby that replaced the fountain just looks weird to me. I'd rather a mostly flat wall at that point.
2:40 ?????
They can add as much details as they want outside the playable space. Yes it's nice that the game looks "good" now but the core of counter-strike is a tactical shooter.
answer: it's not
If it were up to pros, all details and color would be taken out.
immersion or gameplay both comes 3rd if performance isn't enjoyable.
cmon people will find anything to blame to not blame their own skill
They need to remove the birds and particles
I don't play CS, and I don't really see a reason to while it's so focused on comp.
Big money
isn’t it kind of a feature if you can “hide” in certain spots? Seems like it could just be reducing competitive strategies instead of improving them?
That is a valid point
It seems like most competitive cs players don't like it when there are hiding spots and would rather the game devolve into reflex based reactions in an environment where the players are easy to see. It's why all the maps are so overly bright, any properly dark areas with actual grit to them are not deemed "competitive"
Situations where you cant see your opponent clearly, like dark spots, blending in, etc are often unintentional and are left in without thought. This causes these situations to feel like your opponent had an unfair advantage or feel more random because they didn't consciously make a decision based on being hard to see.
The problem with dedicated spots on a map is that one-way vision while being able to damage your opponent is too strong of an advantage that isnt fun to fight. And if it was something as simple as a spot on a map, it wouldn't be earned with any real effort, you simply just go there.
One-way smokes in CS:GO arent too different from this and were hated for the same reasons. Not much effort, too strong, not fun to fight against. It feels undeserved for someone who plays a lot because they dont really require you to outsmart your opponent or outplay them with your mechanics.
@@surdukks2219
Depends on the player. Some people just like to goof around casually. I remember back in the old version of Train, there was a dark corner next to the stairs.
Everyone from my team was dead and there were like 5 guys going around in a group searching for me. I stood in the dark spot facing away from the stairs so that my gun wouldn't poke out. Then I heard footsteps, I waited for a bit and poked out of the dark spot. To my surprise it was the entire enemy team in a conga line snooping around trying to find me.
Their situational awareness was so bad I managed run up behind them and stab all 5 of them with a knife. Everyone had a laugh about how ridiculous it was. Good times.
@@hpp676 Yea I get that having silly or broken maps with cool little spots you can go to is fun, insersion 2 for example was a very fun map. But current 5v5 CS is a competitive mode where you try to win, which means things like that can be frustrating. "casual players" who complain about "sweaty tryhards" often neglect the fact that for the people that try to win, its a very fun game to try your best at and feels very rewarding.
But i definitely think competitive maps have so much unexplored potential, most of the current pool is just a variation of a dust2 3lane map. Nuke is a very unique map that breaks the mold, and very fun for both casual and more sweaty players.
Changes looks fine to me
old players would definitely prefer having less in a map for instance i loved the old csgo inferno
Valve continues to remove stuff from the map, the most recent case being an entire building and arch structure
Old players still play 1.6.
When will Counter-strike have more than 10 devs working on this series since cs 1.0 beta Is everyone concern
I feel like the complaints about Valve's changes are a bit overblown. Most of these details still look fine and nice.
The desire for Source 2 was for better optimization and netcode. I'd rather be playing 1.6 maps than have water reflections that tank FPS and extinguishing mollies stuttering.
Perhaps I'm biased toward aesthetics
I also like aesthetics, just as long as I get them at little to no performance cost
cs entire appeal is that anyone in the eastern block can run that shit
My pc would love that
like ppl say, if you let competitive players decide how a map looks, it would be devoid of all personality in the name of "balance"
That's why we must find the proper balance
@@LEDs The words "proper balance" reminds me of the topic of fair use and what it actually means.
Jeez man.
unknowledgeable tf2 fan complains about how the biggest competitive fps tries to be competitive
in other words, the sky is blue
All this time I thought that Inferno was Spanish... 😱
i feel removing these details harm the maps feel. if you remove all of the small details the maps lose the lived in feel that some of them have.
people whine about decluttering then also whine about visual noise for some other game
The revision to maps because "player visibility" sounds like a skill issue.
"omg this map is so bad terrorist in that position is literally invisible"
Sounds like skill issue to me
I know I'm late, but.
For people with ADHD, its easy to get distracted by virtually any detail.
no, no its not
I think we should return to the SE versions just more extreme... a devbox/1.6 style map and an artistic casual version...
I really don't like how people use the word immersion as if it means realism. Half-life is very immersive and so was CS 1.6, because it feels like you your self are running around on those maps planting bombs and shooting enemies, you forgot that it's just a game where you're controlling a character - it really has nothing to do with realism.
I disagree. Keep the clutter. But I’m not a pro gamer so I don’t really care about player visibility due to clutter. They just made these maps uglier and less fun to play in
I disagree with this. Nobody seems to understand the accessibility angle on this. (Or they just refuse to.) I'm autistic and personally struggle with modern games, casual or not, due to excessive detail. Not just stuff directly obscuring things, but clutter surrounding objects can make it harder to see. I can hold my own to some extent against, as an example, unreasonably hard modded Hollow Knight bosses like Any Radiance once you remove the visual clutter through mods, but struggle with even vanilla content due to all the particle effects, glowing, etc in that game. I'll get hit by slow, "obvious" things or lose track of myself because i effectively go partially blind when my brain can't interpret visually chaotic segments of the screen.
It's frustrating and disheartening seeing everyone tossing negativity towards these changes that i wish every game would do, while insulting dismissing people who asked for it.
@@littleboyred1 Play tf2 it doesn't have clutter and has a distinctive color palette
@@ziphy_6471 Lost interest in that game over time but yeah for the most part it's got very good visibility.
CSGO was the right balance. CS2 maps have tooooo much
As someone who's too much of s perfectionist and loves some high quality detailing I see this as a stupid argument:c
I agree with this video. The Library and Balcony changes are perfect as no detail was lost but it enhanced the gameplay, where shrinkage of the inlets (for a lack of better words) only serves to remove/decrease detail while not noticeably increasing gameplay.
I feel like the "issue" with the spot by Banana was that the backdrop was too dark, so maybe they could've just added a light to reduce the contrast instead of shrinking it
I am still mad they removed csgo from my hard drive and made access to it way harder, hence effectively breaking and killing one of the best games
I honestly cannot understand why big companies act like that: valve killing csgo and tf2, google trying to kill youtube, mojang trying to kill minecraft
I really don't want internet to devolve like this
In an interview not too long ago, Valve actually explained why:
Because they knew the CS community is too stubborn and wouldn't bother trying CS2 too much. So, the only way to get them to play it is to force them to. And CS2 overall is supposed to end up being an overall update to CSGO so either way you'd end up with this.
As for TF2, they're not trying to kill it, they just stopped bothering to support it. And given it went on for over a decade before the final proper update being the Jungle Inferno one, that's still FAR longer than most games get.
@@gimok2k5 yeah some people would want to continue playing the game they like instead of a barely functioning replacement and valve can't have that because it would drop the skin market and gambling revenue
imagine thinking this is a good argument
@@gimok2k5 I get it, but that is such a lame excuse to push out an objectively inferior in almost every way product
cs2 being so bad really doesn't help with the players being stubborn, does it?
all the commonly mentioned reasons aside, I personally really enjoyed community servers, but they were barely alive(browser being spammed, good servers almost empty) after lockdown due to neglect from valve for decades
cs2 is the nail in the coffin for them
as for tf2, that is true and the game is full of content(hard to add more things that would fit, but not yet impossible), but there is still a lot devs should do and reapetedly mismange it
@@richardvlasek2445 Knowing the CS community: It is. Because I am 100% they would not touch CS2 for several YEARS simply because it's not CSGO.
And considering how pissy some people act shows that Valve did the correct thing because all those people wouldn't play CS2 at all.
It's cos they knew cs2 wasn't good enough to get players to leave csgo. They blame the players but I blame the game and content.
If someone genuinely cares about immersion in CS then they should go play a different game.
Valve could replace every single map with a dev graybox version and I would not care in the slightest. Of course they would never do that because of player count and viewership reasons, but for me personally I wouldn't care.
most people wouldn't care, the gameplay loop is what's important and the graphics are just sugar on top. just look at the best-selling video game of all time minecraft
@@xandii4694 I disagree, I think most experienced players wouldn't care but a lot of casual players would stop playing. Little Jimmy that plays an hour a week probably wouldn't like staring at gray walls.
based jimmy
@@Yes-jw8cp No.
@@Nick-ij5nt My pc would love if the graphics on CS2 were like CS 1.6
Who tf is immersed in Counter Strike
nice
I fck hate inferno, cant even play it on my pc
Meta slaves trying not to ruin the fun for everybody else challenge: (Impossible)
I hate counter strike competitive players. Change all the textures to grey boxes aside from the characters then you have true competitive for them.
yes and its literally only to showcase how cool their new graphics engine is
literally the same thing when they ported 1.6 maps to source and just showered them with breakable windows and random physics props littered everywhere to convince people to play the new (inferior) product
of course back then we didn't have cadres of weirdos that dedicate most of their online presence to crying about people who like competing in videogames
>comp crybabies keep ruining it for everyone else!
>no you cant play to win, thats like, sweaty and not fun
God forbid someone have fun in a competitive game
No, it's perfect. Details shouldn't have to be sacrificed so sweaty tryhard competitive players get an extra 2 fps.
my whigga thats the entirety of cs