The reason this is my personal favorite poem is that I relate to a broader, or alternate interpretation that the context is not exclusively death, but more broadly, old age. In that way, it can be read as a warning, or more inspirationally, a carpe diem rally, to maximize the time you have left. Live passionately. Use it or lose it. Being close to age 50, I think about this poem when I don’t feel up to going for a run.
I appreciated the distinction between poem observing what people do versus advising them what to do, but I have always felt it was both. He notes that the most iconic "good", "wild" etc. men are that way and therefore we should all try to be like them. Similarly, I feel his father has not gone gentle through his whole life and therefore should not change at the door of death. And we should not go gentle through our lives, which even when we are young, are a passage to death. I have loved this poem all my life but still learned from this thoughtful lecture.
Once I met a very old patient at a Swansea nursing home. Around 1998 I asked him who was the man in the painting on his sideboard. “That’s Dylan “ he said. He told me they were friends in school days. I was utterly fascinated by his stories and the painting. I came into work one night and the painting had gone. I found out later that the matron had put it in storage because she thought I might take it. True story
I agree that the 'curse, bless me' line is an indication of his past relationship with his father who both cursed and blessed him, meaning that he wanted his father back as he was no matter whether he was angry or proud of his son.
This was just read at my grandmother's funeral today. While listening i attached the meanings to my grandma and gives it this meaning to me. the good night, for me, is the end of the party, the end of smiling and laughing and connecting with others. She was fiercely loving, witty joyful to be around and even on the last day she had she laughed with what energy she had with anyone who came to see her. She never lost her kindness even though she was dealing with stage 4 cancer. No matter what happens to us in life, we should try as hard as we can to not give up on our next chance of love and laughter.
The best rendition i have heard of this Poem, is Michael Sheen by a country Mile. However what i find sad is that the Poem is telling his father to no go Gentle and to fight the dying of the light. Yet only a few years later he himself passes away way before his time barely reaching 40 years old, like the Universe spoke to Dylan
I think this is also about regret. Wise men regretting not forking lightning, good men regret not having significant deeds, grave men not appreciating the life as they were living it.
I like your lecture on Dylan Thomas poem but would like to add this quote from the New York Times Opinion page, published Oct 5, 1989. "I spent many hours with Dylan Thomas arranging a series of poetry readings at the Roerich Museum in New York city. He told me on one memorable night at the White Horse Tavern in Greenwich Village that this poem was not about his father nearing death, but about his rapidly failing eyesight. "Rage, Rage Against the Dying of the Light" referred to his father's approaching blindness. However Thomas repeated several times, "Let people make of it as they please." The letter was from Robert J. Gibson, East Hampton, L.I., Sept 23, 1989. I think this makes sense, especially since Thomas senior died in Dec. 1952, and the poem was written in 1947. It is still a great lecture, and I very much appreciate it being UTube. Thank you Dr. Barker.
+April Dauenhauer I've heard that story too. As it's said by Thomas himself it has to be acknowledged but may I suggest that the greater possibility is that he was just joking while having a drink in pub. I think we sometimes have a tendency to bestow more seriousness on the utterances of others than we would on ourselves. I'm talking of Gibson doing so here, not yourself. What I would ask is how the line "Rage, rage against the dying of the light"-meaning "Be very upset about your failing eyesight" would fit into the rest of the poem. I would suggest that at the very least it would make the poem less powerful, for death is surely worse than blindness, and less universal, we all die we do not all go blind before we die. That said, it is certainly not impossible to read the poem as being about his father's encroaching blindness. If readers prefer that reading who is to discourage them? On the other hand, I prefer to imagine Thomas mischievously joking away that the poem is only about his dad's literal blindness and has no other metaphorical resonance, and being taken seriously. I could of course be wrong.
4th stanza-- "and learned too late they grieved it on it's way" has always been my favorite line and has always meant to me, "they, at last, realized they were the cause of their own suffering."
Could those words also mean that in the process of loving life, at the very same time they also missed some essential quality of life, or indeed failed to address more meaningful, deeper issues in their quest for pleasure……….they may have missed the real essence of life, perhaps love for others? Or their pleasure may have been tainted with a constant fear of life’s brevity? Thus they “learned to late they (had) grieved it on its way”?
In the Davies and Maud Phoenix edition of Collected Poems 1934-53 it is written: Introducing it at the University of Utah 18 April 1952 he began to talk in a soft voice about his father, who he said, had been a militant atheist, whose atheism had nothing to do with whether there was a god or not, but was a violent and personal dislike for God. He would glare out of the window and growl: 'It's raining, blast Him!' or 'The sun is shining - Lord what foolishness!' He went blind and was very ill before he died. He was in his eighties, and he grew soft and gentle at the last. Thomas hadn't wanted him to change . . .
The son’s frustration fits perfectly into the form of villanelle. The way he conveys how dying men ought to resist death is actually not quite cogent. The repeated lines effectively show the son’s frustration and that he actually has no good reasons to ask his father not to accept his fate. He could only repeat his desire of not letting his father die by saying the same thing over and over again. The fact that the four kinds of man can interchange in different situations somehow indicates the ignorance to his selfish desire of asking his father not to die. In particular, the line “Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray” is actually quite disturbing as I imagine a dying sick old man is forced to wake up and fight against death.
That was a very good lecture. I have a different reading of the phrase "sad height." When someone is sick and dying they are often propped up in a bed on a pile of pillows. Its a sad height because its a pathetic sight. This reading would make it a better line than he gives it credit for.
Dr barker's analysis is a terrific delineation of the tone, structure, and meaning behind one of Thomas's most famous poems. The structural insight into the villanelle style is especially useful for those studying the English literature IGCSE this year. I also like the way he integrates contextual information to support the often ambitious meanings in the poem. Overall, a great analysis and easy to follow.
I so much enjoyed this lecture and Dr. Barker's explanation of a wonderful poem, and the following afterwards occurred to me. As "Goodnight" is the relevant farewell when departing in the evening - into the darkness, here synonymous with death - this may explain the poet's choice of the word "good" in describing the night; a foreshadowing and emphasis of the theme of the poem. Also, I noticed that - presumably by design rather than happenstance - the types of men featured begin with 'w' in the alternate 2nd and 4th stanzas, and 'g' in the alternate 3rd and 5th stanzas. I may or may not be correct, but such thoughts arising confirm the endless fascination with this poem and the brilliance of its construction.
Kay Jenkins That "goodnight" "good night" thing is so, so obvious, and I don't think the idea of goodnight as farewell ever occurred to me before until I read this post. That sounds as if I'm being sarcastic and I'm really not. I still love this piece. As to your comment on alliteration in the names, for me Thomas seems to have been tuned to the sounds of words in a near superhuman way and I don't think any observation of the way word sounds work in his writing is redundant. (I nearly went for wasteful there, but thought it a bit much.) My favorite of his is "The force that through the green fuse drives the flower," which is as much fun to say as any collection of words in English that I'm aware of. Thank you.
I have the same understanding as you that "good night" means "farewell", "adios", "checking out", "bye-bye", or in the context of this poem, "death". BTW, here is a link to Dylan Thomas himself reading the poem -- ruclips.net/video/1mRec3VbH3w/видео.html -- he leaves a slight pause between "good" and "night", which I think was intentional to keep things a bit ambiguous and to give Dr. Barker something to ponder :).
I like the idea that the poems pattern is observation, observation, observation, command. I like the tone transition that would entail. "Dad, look at these men fighting for their lives, you need to do so too!"
I first came to this poem through the beautiful setting of it by Stravinsky. Thomas died when he was on his way to Los Angeles to collaborate with Stravinsky on an opera, loosely (or poetically) planned to somehow be on the subject of atomic war. A great loss to the world of art that it never happened! So the only words by Thomas which Stravinsky ever wound up setting to music were the words of this poem, and his setting was done as a tribute to Thomas. The song is called In Memoriam Dylan Thomas. After that I started reading a lot of Thomas -- bought his Complete Works. I completely fell in love with the "music" of all of Thomas's poems -- the technicolor, almost violent, *sounds* -- I think that "green" and "forked" are two of his most favorite words, right? -- let alone the images. I think that another reason why this is one of the most popular of Thomas's poems is that, ironically, it is one of the *easiest* of his works to understand. (The other "easy" one is In My Craft or Sullen Art.) Not that it's obvious or immediate or doesn't require some effort; just that most of the others are *very* much harder, even! (I also bought A Reader's Guide to Dylan Thomas ... which was a big help.) I will say that just about every one of his poems leaves lasting images in the mind ... even when you have no idea what those images convey or how they fit together. I like what you said (I'd have to search your whole video for the exact words) that it's not all about *what* he says, it's also about *how* he says it. It's poetry, after all ... and poetry (and all the arts) can be very seductive. An excellent English teacher I had pointed out that Keats's line "Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty" is meant ironically. Thanks for a great service to poetry and its audience and potential audience.
Many thanks for your reply. I think you are right about this being one of the easiest of his works to understand. I don't actually believe that his work always does convey images that fit together in a coherent fashion, which is not to say that it never does. He has the line, "The force that through the green fuse drives the flower," which is one of my favorite in all poetry, the sound of it is, to use possibly pretentious synesthesia, delicious. More often than not I think Thomas is most interested in producing that kind of acoustic, which is great when you are in the mood for it, not so much when you are not. This acknowledgment almost makes his work exempt from a lot of analysis. Except when we are in the mood to analyze, of course.
My interpretation of the poem seams to differ slightly from yours. The dying of the light is most probably death but it could also be interpreted as hopelessness or despair. The opening 3 lines are what Dylan wants the reader (or his father) to understand, but in order for him to understand that these sentences are true he must make sure that this also applies to him (his father). So he identifies four types of men which he feels that every man can identify himself as and then tells the reader (or father) why they should not go into hopelessness/death. The Wise men should not want to die because their intelligent thoughts are useful to the world. Their thoughts could "fork lightning"/insight to other people. The Good men should not die because their good deeds (frail deeds) could create good things (green bay). The Wild men should not die because they could still enjoy life. The Grave men (those in hopelessness/on their deathbed) should not die because them simply living is a good enough chance to change things. The last line is probably the most personal line where he directly adresses his father. The "sad height" i think is a reference to his pride/stubbornness, that he refuses to listen (possibly because of his military mindset). But he wants him to not be indifferent towards life/death but to either curse(feel anger) or bless(happiness). He wants his father to feel what it is to be alive and he wants him to lust for life.
I'd read it differently. In general I think that one shouldn't read "good night" or "dying of the light" as Death, but rather understand them as a "passive retirement" enforced on you by the circumstances of life itself or by the society. The message of the poem, then, would be: Do Not Give Up! Do Not Retire! Do Not Let Life Break You! But let me take it step by step. - 1. stanza: the second line, "Old age should burn and rave at close of day;" tells you that you shouldn't accept "retirement" before your old age leaves you no choice. Old age should burn ... at close of day, not something else. In other words: Do not accept that "good night", fight against attempts to put out your light. - 2. stanza: I do not think that "Wise Men" refers to educated men, nor to clever men; I think it refers to men who understand life. I also think that the second line explains how they know that "dark is right". "their words had forked no lighting" is in my opinion a way of saying that others do not care anymore about what they say: their "words" do not have to be a scientific miracle or of academic importance, it could be as simple as loosing the ability to threaten others effectively. Now, "wise men" are people who know this and see it coming. - 3. stanza: here I agree up to one point. I do not think that he means that "Good Men" cry because of missing opportunities but because of the malevolence of the real world which is destroying their "frail deeds", or its ignorance which does not understand to value their "frail deeds". I also do not think that he means weak by "frail", but rather characteristics/features which require attention and care, like beauty or love for instance ... - 4. stanza: "Wild Men" - others than "Wise Men" - learn too late! Therefore they grieve when they understand that one can not keep flying with "the sun" for ever. Singing could also refer to bragging. "They grieve it on its way" refers in my opinion to them having learned, too late, that the sun is flying with or without them, so they grieve their loss after they've fallen from their grace. - 5. stanza: I think that with "Grave Men" he refers to men which although old and near death, despite their "blinding" life experience can still inspire and enjoy. - 6. stanza: I've got one point to make here. "Curse, Bless me ..." means that he doesn't care what his father may think about his "payer", he prays it anyway. I know it sounds unusual, but Chinese has a similar way of building words using two opposite adjective to refer to the noun they are used to describe: for example the characters for tall+short together refer to height, or big+small together refer to size ... Anyway, I enjoyed your interpretation. Thank you.
As a Hungarian poet, I thank you for this beauty. The English language if you are listening to it generally, or in any kind of professional language, does not show any beauty....by the end of your lecture I felt as I could hear you in Hungarian, becasuse you are speaking so beautifully the English language.....this is the case where the langueges crossing or reaching each other. I love to translate poem and I did understood you....My favorite Hungarian great poet is Attila Jozsef, he was fantastic. Thanks again, Violet from Hungary. And, as an intelligence expert, Gordon Thomas is also a great joy, he is so so clever and he is very honest in everything.
A wonderful explanation of a complicated poem in simple words to a dying man by his son. You have given me much to ponder regarding my life with those I love. Thank you greatly.
Dr. Barker, I love these lectures. I've listened to several of them - a couple several times (because after listening, of course, your mind continues to chew on the subject and I go back to relisten in light of my thoughts. Thank you for sharing these in this fashion. (just so you know your reach, I'm on the West Coast of Canada).
Thank you for this insightful talk on Thomas's classic poem. In my 40's, I have found more interest in poems, which I avoided in my younger years. It seems that a poem can put the reader more precisely in the mindset of an author than prose, perhaps because poems include an element of music.
Yes, something similar happened to me in my 40's too. I think by then I was just willing to put in that extra bit of time to work out what was going on in poems I had previously avoided. While what you say maybe true it's important to note that to get the reader precisely inside a writer's own mindset isn't always what a writer is trying to do when writing a poem. Often it is, but not always. For an obvious example of what we call a "persona poem" check out the lecture on Browning's "My Last Duchess".
Very helpfull video !! I have a different interpretation of the second stanza though !!! For me "because their words have forked no lightning" means that even though those men were wise and said things important for humanity, even they couldn't beat the darkness(death, absurdity of human existence etc etc) ! Of course, being the wisest among us, those men are aware of their inability to exist forever (something that most of us usually tend to ignore), and they express their rage through their work
Mycroft lectures are exceptional! These lectures have made me appreciate poetry like never before... I would like to request a lecture on Mending Wall by Robert Frost if possible. Thanks loads :)
Thank you. And yes, it would certainly be the right time for an evaluation of “Mending a Wall”, particularly as the poem’s phrase “good fences make good neighbours” is often used as with positive connotations by people who don’t seem to realize that the narrator of the poem that phrase comes from considers those who use such a phrase to be rather obtuse.
To me it makes the best sense to construe the "sad height" as the culmination of one's life, the edge of the precipice before one drops into the abyss of nothingness.
In answer to your question, I believe the poem is a prescription for all of us, not an observation. Your thought- provoking interpretation brought tears to my eyes until the end. I don't agree that it was selfish of Thomas not to allow his father to go peacefully. I do not want someone to hold my hand when I'm dying and tell me it's ok to die; in fact, I cringe when people tell me they expressed such sentiments to a dying family member. My mother, at 103, did not go peacefully; and, perhaps selfishly, I did not want her to die - perhaps because I do not believe in an afterlife. I do thank you for your intelligent, excellent presentation and for reminding me that this is, indeed, my favorite poem.
And many thanks for your comment. I certainly share your sentiments about the afterlife. And would be as revolted as yourself at the, God is waiting for you set. I think what I was getting at is the idea that sometimes people have just had enough and they are at ease with their passing, their raging and fighting is over, and they are just in too much pain to continue. Often, all too often, this is the case. And Dylan, in this poem, shows the reluctance of those left behind to let this be so. So I'd stand my my assertion that the poem is as much about the emotions of the son, as it is advice to the dying. I'd have to say though, a good rage first is probably the best initial reactions to the appearance of the dying of the light in almost all circumstances.
@@mycroftlectures Thank you for your kind reply, Dr. Barker. Yes, I agree it is as much about Dylan Thomas' own emotions as it is about how his father is actually feeling. I think I must come to terms with that about myself. I do agree that the last thing one wants is to see someone they love suffering in pain. The bottom line, I guess, is that it's a tough call. Thanks again for your intelligent and thorough analysis!
4th stanza--I had never realized how important were the words "caught" and "sang". I have always taken the phrase in altogether-- "who caught and sang the sun in flight". I never wondered what was meant by "caught" or "sang". "Caught" seems very definitive and possessive, whereas I am sure I always have felt it to mean "grasp tenuosly" or "hent". I have never wondered what was meant by "sang" but yes, it must absolutely mean "laud, "glorify" or "explain". Bravo again sir!
Some great points here. I am always fascinated by the specifics of word choice in poetry. (And theatre incidentally, where line readings can change whole passages and hence a whole play). Some criticize this attention as pedantic, but as poetry is the shortest and surely the most specific of written artistic endeavors, the close examination of "Why use that word over that word? What is achieved by putting the words in this order?" seems to me exactly what a poet is doing anyway in a poem's construction, (at least, I am), and attention paid to it is the relevant homage of the enthusiast. I mention all this in acknowledgement of your clear interest in the reverberations of the well chosen word, which we plainly share. Many thanks for your comments.
This poem is definitely an encouraging poem. The poem explores human’s helplessness which is associated with their growing old and approaching toward death. The poem might actually have discussed some aspect of death and dying, however, it might be more apparent that the poem is about the life and how people should live their lives when examined closer. Thomas encourages all people who are confronted with dying and death to sharing their passion for live and wage a war against death, even if he knows that people of all sorts - wise, good, and wild men - in the end have inevitably to cave in it. The repetition of the line ‘Rage, rage against the dying of the light’ highlights human being’s struggle to survive and fight against death. The speaker claims that human being should not surrender to death, rather, we have to fight against death. All sort of people might have regret about the ways they lived their lives, and all the things or events that they did not do so far. People should fight against death with every fiber of their being in order to make more impacts of their lives. In fact, Thomas might urge people to diminish their fear of aging, dying, and death, to live their lives to its full extent and to achieve the greatest degree of self-value even though they learn that there is an end of life. We all realize that death must finally come in our entire life. However, the speaker of the poem encourages us fight against the death and dying, but not to mutely accept that kind of so-call ‘fate’. People should have their active to live on no matter any circumstance and age.
I truly despise the academic approach to analyses of poems, because as scientific, structured and objective a they may seem, the underlying factor in all poetry is emotion, which can never be objective. The passion is what counts. And I can find no poem Mir passionate, no poem more emotional, no poem more relatable, no poem more insightful, than this one. While your insight into it is great, I believe personally that the value carried by it is much simpler than that. It is in fact as simple as it gets. Brutally straightforward. Fuck death. That's all there is to it. No grandiose prescription on life, it's values, fate, or your place in it. No matter who you are, what you do, what you have done, and what time you have left, fuck death. Everyone, regardless of circumstance, should fight in their dying moments until they are killed, but never surrender. This is the sole position standing in direct opposition of "this is the way the world ends, not with a bang, but a whimper." No matter what, never whimper. No matter what, do everything in your power to make sure you bang. No matter how I die, even if I'm in a hospital bed, about to pass of old age, I'll be doing it kicking and screaming, with all the strength I have left. Even if all I have power to do, is to make my eyes burn. Because fuck death. That's the grand truth of this poem, from which all other sub points may be derived, but without which no further point can make sense.
The first time I read this poem, I found it pretty confusing. I only caught that it was about death. After a bit of research, I found myself at this video. This poem has definitely left an impact on my life. It's helped me realize that the one thing that's fair to all men is death. I don't really think it's possible to be satisfied with everything we've done at the end of our life. We're bound to have regrets. However, I want to be someone who leaves a positive impact on the world. I want my words to have meaning. It isn't possible for one person to change the world, but it is possible to leave a good feeling to those around you. It also helped me realize that even though I'm bound to have regrets at the end of my life, I want to have as few as I can. I want to do things I love. I want to do things that can benefit others and the community around me. I want to tell people what's on my mind and when. I will read this poem for years to come. I believe I will take something different from it each time.
Beautiful delightful and informative presentation worthy of a beautiful poem and deserving of high praise. Thank you ever so much. I couldn't but wonder why Dylan did not take heed of his wise counsel when it came to the manner of his own death. But for alcohol, we might've had many more years of beautiful poetry.
Ok. That was a very nice lecture. It was interesting to learn about the form, and to hear an interpretation of why the poem is so effective and so famous.
I do love your preference for "gentle" over the grammatically correct "gently". I had never considered the possible reference to the gentleman doing what was "correct".
When my dad was dying, at one point he was in extreme pain. My nephew and I were trying to help hm. My nephew and I looked at each other and said, at the same time, “F Dylan Thomas”. We both started laughing.
I can imagine exactly the same thing. While his words may be inspirational for some, many, there comes a time when to go gentle into whatever night awaits is the best and most hopeful thing to do.
Thank you so much, Dr. Baker. You made this very easy to understand for someone that finds it hard to understand poetry. You nailed it for me. Glad to have come across this video!
I am new to poetry and Dylan Thomas and started looking into it based on a recommendation of my aunt. I fell upon your video when trying to understand it. THANK YOU SO MUCH for taking the time to make this, I found it fantastically interesting and helpful
I see the last lines of the second, third, fourth and fifth stanza as being observations of actions - on a surface level. But the more times I read the poem, the more it seems to me, that for Thomas they were lamentations, not for the men, but for his father. They are something he would be screaming in his head in his grief.
I like the way simple adjectives “Good”, “Wild” and “Grave” were used to describe different men, no matter what they did in their lives, these men are linked with the metaphors mostly at the end of a line. The use of active verbs makes a great contradiction with one dying man, usually the mean is weak and death comes to him. I think if he goes into that good night, this is actually a fight back to death.
It almost seems as though this poem is Thomas dealing with his perception of his father as being mediocre. He seems to be saying "Hey pops, all these other people who failed managed to recognize their smallness in the world once they were leaving it. You, however, are resigned to your fate. How are you ok with this? Curse me, bless me, do anything, but do it with the passion of man who realizes life is precious and fleeting for God's sake!"
I have to say, I think that that's an excellent rendering, in the simplest terms, of what's being said. Couldn't have put it better myself. Perhaps, if I may venture an extra thought, the only bit I'd add is this idea I maintain that the poem is as much about the son's desperate fear of losing the father, as it is about his advice to the father on how best to leave our lives. I do particularly like you final sentence here, "Curse me, bless me, do anything, but do it with the passion of man who realizes life is precious and fleeting for God's sake!"
I am analytical, and to have a poem taken apart and explained is so lovely. I knew it was a beautiful poem, but this lecture made me see different aspects of it. I will always see it differently. Well done, you.
Many thanks. I must confess to a slight but definite irritation with people who claim that close analysis of poetry is done by people who don't like poetry and should be avoided. The logic of this position states that those NOT looking closely at a piece of poetry enjoy and appreciate that piece of poetry more than those to DO look closely at it. If someone has not looked closely at something, (anything), why would they have the arrogance to claim they appreciate that something more than someone who has the interest and takes the time to look at that thing closely? A minor peeve. Thanks for your comment.
mycroftlectures I have taught math, and I always tried to give my students all ways of looking at a problem, so everyone could learn to solve it. I would wait for them to have the aha moment, and there is great joy to be had in opening up a new idea for someone. You have that gift. Thanks again.
I thought Thomas is saying that despite the fact that these men might have regrets about how they lived their lives, and the things that they didn’t do, they still “rage, rage against the dying of the light.” Even they fight off death with every fiber of their beings, perhaps even more so because they felt that they led ineffectual lives, and want more time to make an impact.
The first time I came across this poem was when I watched the movie "Interstellar" in 2014. It was recited by Michael Caine to tell the main characters not to give up on saving the Earth. It was cool and it gave me goosebumps which I really like this poem. I like the poem as it spreads positive feelings for me that it is life affirming that we should live our life to the fullest and do not go without a fight. This is important life lesson that we should not sit there and wait for the end and we should make use of life to the fullest. "Do not go gentle into that good night" and "Rage, rage against the dying of the light" are my two best sentences in the poem. No wonder the poet used these 2 lines a lot in the villianelle. I like "Rage, rage against the dying of the light" particularily the most because it gave the readders a sense of power to feel angry and to fight against death. On whether Dylan Thomas was observing the ways that wise men, good men, wild men and grave men or that he was instructing them what should be done when they faced death, the way I see it is that the 3,4,5 stanza had two meanings. Thus, he was both observing them and telling his dying father to be like them. What I mean is that because how can it be that the wise men had no words that were important, the good men cried that they had no better opportunities, unless they were being modest. But still, given their qualities in life, they still rage against death. He compared his father with these men. "Look at these people, they had lived life to their fulliest and still they fought against death. You, my father, be like them. Rage against death." So the last sentences "Do not go gentle into that good night" and "Rage, rage against the dying of the light" of each stanza which involved the good, wild, grave men , I believe, it was addressing to his father too. I imagine that in this poem, the poetic persona was crying in his eyes as his dying father was lying on the bed. He used examples to tell his father not to give up and he could rise up to talk to him. Although it was like inhumane for a dying father to keep on living if he had bad health issues, it was only human nature that the loved ones do not want them to go away. So in this poem, if we cut out the part where the poet was addressing to his father, it was a heart-felt, and full of life poem. The questions I had concerned about the poem were that what do you mean that he was breaking the iambic pentameter? (I undertsand the part about the good men. wild men, grave men were interchangeble). Can you explain more? And what is his intention of writing this poem? I understand what the poet actually said in the poem with your help but is it the same as what he wants to write? Or it is up to us to interpret this poem?
Alex. To answer your question "I understand what the poet actually said in the poem with your help but is it the same as what he wants to write?" How would we honestly know what someone WANTED to write? They may even go so far as to us specifically what they WANTED to write but that would not necessarily mean they succeeded in their endeavors. What is there for us to discuss is what the poet actually wrote. The actual words on the page are there for us to examine and enjoy. For students and teachers the "poet's intention" way of examining a poem is very problematic. Students have to not only guess what the poet intended, they have to guess what the teacher guesses the poet intended. And that can get further and further away from the words on the page that the poet actually wrote. All that can be good fun of course, but for me, the words of any piece of literature are what most matters in entertaining and appreciative analysis.
Thank you for your making your analysis of “Do not go gentle…” It was so personal and humble. There was so much for me to disagree with, and has given me food for thought on essential life issues for the remainder of my days of breath.
I am genuinely impressed by Thomas’s use of metaphors throughout the poem to show how inevitable - and hence invincible - a force death is and how little, if any, effect human agency has in evading it. I am also very much inspired by the ways in which he played with the poetic form (as a villanelle) and words to illustrate the importance of keeping up a fighting spirit, which I believe he saw as the worth of being a human. Most of the metaphors of life and death used in the poem are about nature: wave/ bay; sun (dawn/ dusk); light/ night (except that light can also mean candle light). These metaphors highlight the fact that death is a force of nature against which humans have no chance of winning whatsoever - it is a losing battle essentially. Although I may have gone a little too far, I tend to think that the lines of the first stanza, all of which end with death (i.e. ‘night’ / ‘close of night’ / ‘the dying of the light’), make an effect in explaining death as imminent and as a matter of course - A life ends with death, so is a line. Thomas observed that because death is so invincible, life so brief, and human so fragile, our deeds against death are ‘frail’ - simply quite useless. And with this cruel fact in mind, people of all sorts - wise, good, and wild men - lament their tragic fates. That being said, Thomas believed humans should not give up so quickly and so easily. Rather, humans should put up a good fight like those wise and grave men even though they know they are destined to lose - perhaps, I guess, for the solace of mind. The line ‘Rage, rage against the dying of the light’ is repeated throughout the poem - as a feature of villanelle. And I think such repetition makes the line very much like a slogan chanted in a movement - a rebellion - to incite people. And in order to emphasise the importance of keeping up a good fighting spirit, Thomas had made an exaggeration - a lie even - by saying that even the dying blind can still see and be happy if they put their minds to it - ‘Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay’. Surely I have the greatest respect for Thomas’s well-intended encouragement: Humans may not evade death, but we can choose our manner of dying, which is not to surrender to death so easily; and I quite agree with him (though he didn’t quite explicitly say it in the poem) that life is too brief and we need to live hard in order that we don’t regret too much on our deathbeds. That being said, I’ll have to admit that I have a rather different attitude towards death. As reflected in the poem, death is a matter of course. In this light, why shouldn’t we gracefully embrace it rather than to desperately struggle against it? As one of my favourite novel characters - Albus Dumbledore from Harry Potter - once says, ‘Death is but another great adventure.’
To answer the final question. The poet, and his father, apparently don't see death as "but the next great adventure," as we are told the "well-organized mind," should do, by see it as "the dying of the light," "the end". Theists believe something extra happens to a human being when it dies, those who are not theists don't believe that, or at least would ask for some verifiable evidence on existence after death before forming an opinion on it. I've often noted what a massive difference this can make in the way people respond to literature. For example, if you honestly, honestly, believe that you are going to another life or an afterlife when you die, your reaction to the end of life must be very different from those who believe that after death there is nothing. (As in "no thing.") Thus your response to the way a character responds to a loved one's death or awaits their own death will change. That 's what we call "reader response" in one of its rawest forms. Our emotional response to the poem depends on already held beliefs of our own. I would add, that when we deal with death, theism in general perhaps, many have a tendency to read things into the poem that aren't there, or can't be made to be seen there in the words the poet wrote. I have read responses to this poem for instance that don't say, as you say "I have a rather different attitude towards death," but say that the poem says things about death that the words of the poem simply can't be read as having said. It is important to note, the obvious fact, that other writers don't always share the same beliefs as us, and can have voiced beliefs directly opposite to our own. This is a good observation, by the way. "The line ‘Rage, rage against the dying of the light’ is repeated throughout the poem - as a feature of villanelle. And I think such repetition makes the line very much like a slogan chanted in a movement - a rebellion - to incite people." Ps I'd like to add to this something I say in another comment, and in part in the video. The idea that the "night" of "Do not go gentle into that good night," is "good" may suggest that Thomas believes in an afterlife or another life by virtue of the very fact that he claims that that night would be "good." For the afterlife or other life to be either good or bad it would surely have to exist in the first place. To counter this, I would suggest that the end of life could be considered to be good if that life was so agonizing at the point of death that the no thing of death would be preferable. As I type this I am inclined to believe that the line "Do not go gentle into that good night," certainly suggests a theistic belief in something after death to me.
Amazing lectures! Just in response to that last thought: though I understand how the "good night" could associate itself to a theistic afterlife, I think it wouldn't make as much sense for the poem to then encourage a rageful, raving, rebellious attitude towards it. I think, as you touch on in this same comment, lots of people have different ideas about death, but even among the most faithful believers in a good afterlife, most people tend to still generally treat death as a negative, dreaded event. It feels like the night is "good" ironically, or "poetically", or mabe he even means it overly politely, like referring to someone as the "good man" when you dont mean it haha.
I have just come across this interpretation of this poem. My interpretation of the line “And you, my father, there on the sad height, Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears I pray” would be that he’s angry at his father in the moment of his death(sad height....pinnacle of his death) curse, (curse word eg FFS) bless me now with your fierce tears I pray( give me your blessing/acceptance before you die I’m begging you) Eg FFS dad can’t you even say something kind to me on your deathbed you angry old bugger.
Nice. I'm not sure I agree with it as the most likely or obvious reading, but this does not matter as it certainly makes sense as a reading, and goes us a 'getting more for our money' way of looking at the line, which I always like. Thanks.
Very interesting lecture that sparked some thoughts, perhaps divergent. I am wondering if the simplest interpretation of the poem is that the anger and rage is Thomas's own rage against death, and he wishes to project that anger onto his dying father, perhaps to legitimise the angry emotions he is feeling himself. This was partly prompted by hearing a different lecture on the poem where the lecturer, by slip of the tongue, let slip the phrase "Bless me, father", which as I understand it, is what Catholics say at the start of confession: "Bless me, father, for I have sinned". Since the two come so close together "And you, my father ... Curse, bless me" that I wonder if there is indeed a confessional element. He knows, perhaps that the anger he feels is irrational, and to an extent selfish, and he wants his father to "Bless" him by cursing the coming darkness - if his father were to rage against it, then the rage he feels will not seem so bad. I had not thought of it that way before - but as you have said, it's impossible to know what the poet really meant, and there may be alternative interpretations - but it seems to be that's what it says to me at the moment.
+Iain Strachan Hi Iain. Yes, that's exactly how I see it myself. And this is a reading that I haven't heard elsewhere either. In these Mycroft lectures I've tried to select poems that I feel I can add something beyond what appears as the usual reading, and here it is the idea, that you express very concisely, that what we are reading is not so much intended as inspiring instruction to the dying father, but as the son's anger and desperation at his own loss.
Maybe he saw his father as all of the type of men mentioned in the poem. Perhaps also a way for Thomas to remind himself not to be weak in the way he observed his father.
I interpreted the poem in a similar but slightly different way. Wise men when they die exolt their words of wisdom on anyone who would listen. Therefore they don't go quietly. Good men regret what they haven't done. Therefore they do go quietly and Dylan Thomas is telling them to fight for more good deeds. Same with the Wild men. They learned too late they are going to die, however because they lived life to the fullest they have no cares in the world and if they die oh well and he is telling them to fight on. Grave men almost seem to be "happy" when the end is near and he is telling them to fight. His father he, the author, doesn't want to die. In a selfish way he is saying that look at how these others go. Only the wise men don't go quietly by spreading wisdom to any who will listen, he doesn't understand (from an emotional and psychological perspective) how good men, wild men, and grave men can just accept the end without fighting for more. So in their ends the Good Men want to do more good deeds and are regretful they didn't. The Wild Men went out the only way they knew how. Wild (drinking, gambling, women etc) The Grave Men (serious and I agree with this) went out happy. They know they went out with glory they can see that the end is a better place than were they are now. This means their eyes get big, they have 1 more moment where they are at peace, where they finally don't have to be serious and go out Happy. I think the poet doesn't want those close to him to die. He is explaining how each one does and only that the Wise men go out without going gentle into that good night. Good men, wild men, serious men all accept the inevitability of their death with regret, not caring, and happiness. This confuses him. Why would a good man have regrets at the end. Why would a wild man not care (he can't be wild when he is dead) and why is the serious man happy? He is selfishly telling those men to fight on. They don't want to. I think his father was the serious man. The one who accepted death and was happy when "life" was over. He didn't have to be serious any more and for, what looked like the first time in his life, was finally happy. Dillon cannot understand this and as a grieving son wants his father to continue to fight on. So in my opinion, The Wise men are arrogant to think that their wisdom will carry on. The Good men, Regret of their Virtue the did good deeds but was it enough Wild Men, didn't have time to reflect on their life, they just lived and played hard and didn't realize until it was too late that they die and poof they are gone. the Serious Men, they had time to reflect and they had some virtues, some hedonistic tendencies, some Wisdom, but unlike the others they were at peace with what they did/didn't do. So he is being selfish saying look at the wise men they don't go quietly, why are all the rest of you? Fight, Damn it Fight. What, I think, he fails to realize is that only the serious men (they understood the risks, didn't take many, had accomplished things, missed on others but had a fulfilling life are at peace and when they reflect on their life on their death bed their eyes light up like meteors and they are happy/at peace). I believe this is how his father went out. I am sad that you are at the height and death is inevitable but stay with me because I don't want you to go.
The poem is a good piece. I like the word choice of the poem such as the 'curse-bless' at the last stanza. I think the persona of the poem is so desperate. He knows his father doesn't have a religion, still he wants to meet his father in the afterlife by bless or curse. However, his father is atheistic, which means his father would believe there would be nothing left after death but ash and dust. His father forces him to admit the truth that they are not going to meet again at heaven or hell, or wherever the place. It touches my heart when I read that because the different religious beliefs would suggest different 'afterlives'. This suggest that if your love ones and yourself don't share a same faith, it is quite confused and helpless to face the afterlife issue, since nobody has a clue but it suggests the separation would be forever. Another thing that interests me is that the interchangeable 'men' at every stanza. I am thinking if it is necessary for a good men to be contributive to the world and make changes? Even though for other men written in the poem, it seems to me like the description of making changes to the world are not the necessary and sufficient conditions for being a good man. So I would like to know why the characteristics of those men are chosen to be written in the poem, but not other features like good man should have good moral standards.
I wish I had had a teacher like you when I was young! The clarity and spirit of your lecture is wonderful. The manner in which you present your various possible interpretations of words and phrases is highly commendable. Without wishing to appear "superior", your accent(s) is(are) down-to-earth, authentic and adds something special to the realm of poetry and poetic interpretation. You come across very well on the screen, particularly with close-ups, rather than the longer shots where you are at a distanced, off-putting angle to the camera. I find your final reading of the poem "flat". If you compare it with Richard Burton's version, you will get the South Welsh MUSICALITY of Thomas's poem. Don't forget the South Welsh era of Chapel orators with whom Thomas would have been more than familiar. From Burton's version I also think you will get a close approximation to the question you bring up in your lecture as to how the last lines of the stanzas should be spoken/interpreted. The very punctuation of the stanzas "Good men, the last wave by, ....", leads one to perceive that these people rage, while in the final stanza Thomas actually addresses his father and "Rage, rage ... is no longer descriptive but, rather, a command. Burton, with his majestic voice, makes this interpretation, I believe. I now very much look forward to follow your poetry channel wit great interest. Many thanks.
The good doctor each time reciting substituted "old men" for "old age" and "burn and rage" for "burn and rave." Been trying to memorize and noticed that.
I love your answer to, "What as the poet thinking when he wrote this?" Which was ,"I don't know I'm not a mind reader!" I started laughing! Love it. I'm a writer too, and on occasion, people will take my writing to mean something entirely different than what I was thinking about. This one comment made my day! I totally relate.
Fascinating talk, this. I appreciate your insight into this legendary poem. Couple questions and observations: Regarding "grave men" - I could understand as "serious," but could this designation also refer to the "evil" man, men of death, of the grave? Seems a bit more fitting, relative to "wild" and "good" men, no? The "evil" man sees their truth so fiercely that they blaze like meteors - crashing their reality in others. Meteor is an interesting word here in that it can be seen as an inert mass of the cosmos, but relative to the human experience (especially when referenced in light of death), "meteor" suggests destruction - acts typically signatures of "evil" men who would most certainly rage against death not necessarily for guilt (as they are blind) but for more affirmation to prove what they see. Regarding advice to one experiencing the passing of a loved one - I fully agree that it IS selfish advice to the mourner, witnessing death actually taking its toll. But perhaps this too is an observation as it feels like the natural gear shift for ones we truly love to kick and scream from being taken away. However, by removing the specific context of a young man experiencing his fathers death, this could be exceptional advice to those not in the immediate presence of death's bed via debilitation, sickness or injury. We are all dying as we age, thus should we not rage against the impartial cruelty of time's passage? Passivity, conformity and acceptance of expectation all but resign us to the kind of regret one would seethe in rage over if one was cognizant of this revelation in the final moments. Live life! We don't set the terms of death, but can choose how we meet it with the life that led to it. Finally, "And you, my father," - it actually DOES seem like an accusation on repeat readings. There's good men, wild men, grave men and then there's you. However, upon an initial reading after some time away from the poem, the welling emotion of "And you, my father," fills me with sympathy in an odd way, akin to breaking the fourth wall. I feel like I am now speaking those words, rather than the author to his father. I am now the one suddenly taking my own father and I out of time and space, removed from everything and everyone, to recognize our unique relationship and to fight tooth and nail to maintain it. Thank you once again for your discourse and your candor. The internet is redeemed ever so slightly with this type of content. The sort which rages against the dying of the light.
Thank you very much for this. Both for the praise and the extra analysis. I'm always grateful when someone adds a few extra possible "sides" to a poem I have known for a long time and yet hadn't previously contemplated. I think what you say in the second and third paragraphs is wonderfully well put and observed, especially what you say about "removing the specific context of a young man experiencing his father's death, this could be exceptional advice to those not in the immediate presence of death's bed via debilitation, sickness or injury." Though the poem IS specifically an address to the poet's father, it doesn't HAVE to be read by us as such. And when we don't read it this way, or just this way, there is sound advice there for us all. In the first paragraph, I like what you say about "men of the grave" a lot too.The grave or "evil" man who sees their truth so fiercely that they blaze like meteors - crashing their reality in others. To read grave men as "men OF the grave" and not "men NEAR the grave" as I do, seems to me a stretch, but certainly not something stretched to breaking point, and the extension of the idea works very profitably for an alternative reading of the stanza to mine. VERY profitably, actually. Given time I may even prefer it. Yours is one of those comments I think it would be very useful for students of the poem to read to take on board these alternative and equally enlightening, (I like to think), readings, I apologize for taking so long to reply.
Would everyone stop being so erudite. To me, at age 64, it means, GO OUT WITH A BANG and be remembered for the small good works you have done in your life on Planet Earth.
This is a great analysis of the poem without any of the context of the relationship Dylan had with his father. Would it be more complete if the history of their relationship had been included? Maybe. But there is something to be said for death of the author. A work can and does exist by itself. Love this channel.
I think rather it's a younger man not totally understanding the final chapter of all life. I think he was in that first or second stage of grief: anger and denial of the finality which comes to us all.
I like this poem a lot as even though you won't read it to your dying one, but it reflects how you should never surrender to death so in a way, this poem is not about his father's death but to state his way of life? There is the lack of fear of death and defeat in his tone throughout the poem with his choice of words. Or maybe there is fear and denial but he is telling people to triumph over the fear, and the grief. Yes our entire life i's just closer to death everyday, "dying of the light" and it is inevitable. But we cannot admit defeat and succumbs over it, we cannot choose the easier path no matter how tempting it is.
Wow, it seems like a lot of thought was put into this lecture... I'm really feeling your passion for the subject. I particularly liked that you took some time to clarify how these lines don't always have one clear interpretation. So good!
Really i have a lot of extra to add to these, for 22:00 it feels to me how it's almost a play with the word gentle. Frail deeds might refer to how humbly they think of the good deeds they may have performed in life, green bays may refer to bays that have green water, shallow , not yet deep water full of life, in other words, the youth. It becomes then a regret that they cannot live longer, that they cannot be thr ones to stir the water in a dance in the life of these grandchildren perhaps. It works well when paired with the idea of forked lightning in the previous stanza too. To fork no lightning, to not achieve a breakthrough academic acomplishment is just as daunting to the wise man as what it really means is to not reach the eureka or climax of their research. For the lightning to end before it forks, or in other words to end without having achieved a satisfactory conclusion as lightning normally ends after it forks, not simply as a straight streak, at least as an idea here. Both have the theme of being just short of what they wanted to be. A wise man should not resign to death when there is research still uncloncluded, a good man should not be so content with death when they have not filled their kin with all the virtue and moral fiber they have spent their life performing.
Wow! Some great stuff there. I very much appreciate the fact that I can still get to hear new interpretations of lines in work I had not considered. I particularly like the lightning one and "the theme of being just short of what they wanted to be." I also like the idea that it is not Dylan but the men themselves who consider their deeds "frail." I hope that this is a comment many others get to read as it shows some useful additional readings to the ones I put forth. Thank you. Andrew Barker
All great poems give context over to the reader. As the feelings of the reader change so can the way, and the meaning of the poem change. That ability to give simplicity in the many complexities of life make this one of the great poems. I have read it many times and feel that no two readings are the same. Whether the rage is observed, demanded or reflected in how the reader is feeling can change how we read, feel an portray it. That is its power. Its beauty. Please do not analyse too much. Simply absorb it. Feel it. Love it. Never give up. I rage.
First when I read it, I could get some broad meaning .But after listening to Dr Barker, I could get immersed in his detailed analysis. Thank you very much, Excellent poem.
The reason this is my personal favorite poem is that I relate to a broader, or alternate interpretation that the context is not exclusively death, but more broadly, old age. In that way, it can be read as a warning, or more inspirationally, a carpe diem rally, to maximize the time you have left. Live passionately. Use it or lose it. Being close to age 50, I think about this poem when I don’t feel up to going for a run.
I appreciated the distinction between poem observing what people do versus advising them what to do, but I have always felt it was both. He notes that the most iconic "good", "wild" etc. men are that way and therefore we should all try to be like them. Similarly, I feel his father has not gone gentle through his whole life and therefore should not change at the door of death. And we should not go gentle through our lives, which even when we are young, are a passage to death. I have loved this poem all my life but still learned from this thoughtful lecture.
Once I met a very old patient at a Swansea nursing home. Around 1998 I asked him who was the man in the painting on his sideboard. “That’s Dylan “ he said. He told me they were friends in school days. I was utterly fascinated by his stories and the painting. I came into work one night and the painting had gone. I found out later that the matron had put it in storage because she thought I might take it. True story
That's a wonderful story. Your keen interest got you pegged as a potential thief!
Yes, far better to have it hidden away. 😞
I agree that the 'curse, bless me' line is an indication of his past relationship with his father who both cursed and blessed him, meaning that he wanted his father back as he was no matter whether he was angry or proud of his son.
This was just read at my grandmother's funeral today.
While listening i attached the meanings to my grandma and gives it this meaning to me.
the good night, for me, is the end of the party, the end of smiling and laughing and connecting with others. She was fiercely loving, witty joyful to be around and even on the last day she had she laughed with what energy she had with anyone who came to see her.
She never lost her kindness even though she was dealing with stage 4 cancer.
No matter what happens to us in life, we should try as hard as we can to not give up on our next chance of love and laughter.
The best rendition i have heard of this Poem, is Michael Sheen by a country Mile.
However what i find sad is that the Poem is telling his father to no go Gentle and to fight the dying of the light.
Yet only a few years later he himself passes away way before his time barely reaching 40 years old, like the Universe spoke to Dylan
I think this is also about regret. Wise men regretting not forking lightning, good men regret not having significant deeds, grave men not appreciating the life as they were living it.
I like your lecture on Dylan Thomas poem but would like to add this quote from the New York Times Opinion page, published Oct 5, 1989. "I spent many hours with Dylan Thomas arranging a series of poetry readings at the Roerich Museum in New York city. He told me on one memorable night at the White Horse Tavern in Greenwich Village that this poem was not about his father nearing death, but about his rapidly failing eyesight. "Rage, Rage Against the Dying of the Light" referred to his father's approaching blindness. However Thomas repeated several times, "Let people make of it as they please." The letter was from Robert J. Gibson, East Hampton, L.I., Sept 23, 1989.
I think this makes sense, especially since Thomas senior died in Dec. 1952, and the poem was written in 1947.
It is still a great lecture, and I very much appreciate it being UTube. Thank you Dr. Barker.
+April Dauenhauer I've heard that story too. As it's said by Thomas himself it has to be acknowledged but may I suggest that the greater possibility is that he was just joking while having a drink in pub. I think we sometimes have a tendency to bestow more seriousness on the utterances of others than we would on ourselves. I'm talking of Gibson doing so here, not yourself. What I would ask is how the line "Rage, rage against the dying of the light"-meaning "Be very upset about your failing eyesight" would fit into the rest of the poem. I would suggest that at the very least it would make the poem less powerful, for death is surely worse than blindness, and less universal, we all die we do not all go blind before we die. That said, it is certainly not impossible to read the poem as being about his father's encroaching blindness. If readers prefer that reading who is to discourage them? On the other hand, I prefer to imagine Thomas mischievously joking away that the poem is only about his dad's literal blindness and has no other metaphorical resonance, and being taken seriously. I could of course be wrong.
4th stanza-- "and learned too late they grieved it on it's way" has always been my favorite line and has always meant to me, "they, at last, realized they were the cause of their own suffering."
Could those words also mean that in the process of loving life, at the very same time they also missed some essential quality of life, or indeed failed to address more meaningful, deeper issues in their quest for pleasure……….they may have missed the real essence of life, perhaps love for others? Or their pleasure may have been tainted with a constant fear of life’s brevity? Thus they “learned to late they (had) grieved it on its way”?
In the Davies and Maud Phoenix edition of Collected Poems 1934-53 it is written: Introducing it at the University of Utah 18 April 1952 he began to talk in a soft voice about his father, who he said, had been a militant atheist, whose atheism had nothing to do with whether there was a god or not, but was a violent and personal dislike for God. He would glare out of the window and growl: 'It's raining, blast Him!' or 'The sun is shining - Lord what foolishness!' He went blind and was very ill before he died. He was in his eighties, and he grew soft and gentle at the last. Thomas hadn't wanted him to change . . .
The son’s frustration fits perfectly into the form of villanelle. The way he conveys how dying men ought to resist death is actually not quite cogent. The repeated lines effectively show the son’s frustration and that he actually has no good reasons to ask his father not to accept his fate. He could only repeat his desire of not letting his father die by saying the same thing over and over again. The fact that the four kinds of man can interchange in different situations somehow indicates the ignorance to his selfish desire of asking his father not to die.
In particular, the line “Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray” is actually quite disturbing as I imagine a dying sick old man is forced to wake up and fight against death.
i love this poem and i love his interpretation or understanding of the poem and the writer.
That was a very good lecture. I have a different reading of the phrase "sad height." When someone is sick and dying they are often propped up in a bed on a pile of pillows. Its a sad height because its a pathetic sight. This reading would make it a better line than he gives it credit for.
Dr barker's analysis is a terrific delineation of the tone, structure, and meaning behind one of Thomas's most famous poems.
The structural insight into the villanelle style is especially useful for those studying the English literature IGCSE this year. I also like the way he integrates contextual information to support the often ambitious meanings in the poem. Overall, a great analysis and easy to follow.
I so much enjoyed this lecture and Dr. Barker's explanation of a wonderful poem, and the following afterwards occurred to me.
As "Goodnight" is the relevant farewell when departing in the evening - into the darkness, here synonymous with death - this may explain the poet's choice of the word "good" in describing the night; a foreshadowing and emphasis of the theme of the poem.
Also, I noticed that - presumably by design rather than happenstance - the types of men featured begin with 'w' in the alternate 2nd and 4th stanzas, and 'g' in the alternate 3rd and 5th stanzas.
I may or may not be correct, but such thoughts arising confirm the endless fascination with this poem and the brilliance of its construction.
Kay Jenkins That "goodnight" "good night" thing is so, so obvious, and I don't think the idea of goodnight as farewell ever occurred to me before until I read this post. That sounds as if I'm being sarcastic and I'm really not. I still love this piece. As to your comment on alliteration in the names, for me Thomas seems to have been tuned to the sounds of words in a near superhuman way and I don't think any observation of the way word sounds work in his writing is redundant. (I nearly went for wasteful there, but thought it a bit much.) My favorite of his is "The force that through the green fuse drives the flower," which is as much fun to say as any collection of words in English that I'm aware of.
Thank you.
mycroftlectures I enjoyed your response - thank you - and will now follow up on the further poem you mention, with interest.
I have the same understanding as you that "good night" means "farewell", "adios", "checking out", "bye-bye", or in the context of this poem, "death". BTW, here is a link to Dylan Thomas himself reading the poem -- ruclips.net/video/1mRec3VbH3w/видео.html -- he leaves a slight pause between "good" and "night", which I think was intentional to keep things a bit ambiguous and to give Dr. Barker something to ponder :).
I like the idea that the poems pattern is observation, observation, observation, command. I like the tone transition that would entail. "Dad, look at these men fighting for their lives, you need to do so too!"
I first came to this poem through the beautiful setting of it by Stravinsky. Thomas died when he was on his way to Los Angeles to collaborate with Stravinsky on an opera, loosely (or poetically) planned to somehow be on the subject of atomic war. A great loss to the world of art that it never happened! So the only words by Thomas which Stravinsky ever wound up setting to music were the words of this poem, and his setting was done as a tribute to Thomas. The song is called In Memoriam Dylan Thomas.
After that I started reading a lot of Thomas -- bought his Complete Works. I completely fell in love with the "music" of all of Thomas's poems -- the technicolor, almost violent, *sounds* -- I think that "green" and "forked" are two of his most favorite words, right? -- let alone the images.
I think that another reason why this is one of the most popular of Thomas's poems is that, ironically, it is one of the *easiest* of his works to understand. (The other "easy" one is In My Craft or Sullen Art.) Not that it's obvious or immediate or doesn't require some effort; just that most of the others are *very* much harder, even! (I also bought A Reader's Guide to Dylan Thomas ... which was a big help.) I will say that just about every one of his poems leaves lasting images in the mind ... even when you have no idea what those images convey or how they fit together.
I like what you said (I'd have to search your whole video for the exact words) that it's not all about *what* he says, it's also about *how* he says it. It's poetry, after all ... and poetry (and all the arts) can be very seductive. An excellent English teacher I had pointed out that Keats's line "Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty" is meant ironically.
Thanks for a great service to poetry and its audience and potential audience.
Many thanks for your reply. I think you are right about this being one of the easiest of his works to understand. I don't actually believe that his work always does convey images that fit together in a coherent fashion, which is not to say that it never does. He has the line, "The force that through the green fuse drives the flower," which is one of my favorite in all poetry, the sound of it is, to use possibly pretentious synesthesia, delicious. More often than not I think Thomas is most interested in producing that kind of acoustic, which is great when you are in the mood for it, not so much when you are not. This acknowledgment almost makes his work exempt from a lot of analysis. Except when we are in the mood to analyze, of course.
My interpretation of the poem seams to differ slightly from yours. The dying of the light is most probably death but it could also be interpreted as hopelessness or despair. The opening 3 lines are what Dylan wants the reader (or his father) to understand, but in order for him to understand that these sentences are true he must make sure that this also applies to him (his father). So he identifies four types of men which he feels that every man can identify himself as and then tells the reader (or father) why they should not go into hopelessness/death.
The Wise men should not want to die because their intelligent thoughts are useful to the world. Their thoughts could "fork lightning"/insight to other people.
The Good men should not die because their good deeds (frail deeds) could create good things (green bay).
The Wild men should not die because they could still enjoy life.
The Grave men (those in hopelessness/on their deathbed) should not die because them simply living is a good enough chance to change things.
The last line is probably the most personal line where he directly adresses his father. The "sad height" i think is a reference to his pride/stubbornness, that he refuses to listen (possibly because of his military mindset). But he wants him to not be indifferent towards life/death but to either curse(feel anger) or bless(happiness). He wants his father to feel what it is to be alive and he wants him to lust for life.
Very thoughtful
I love this
This is what I interpreted as well ❤
it's the magic the gathering person, Cool!
I buy this interpretation more than the good professor on screen.
I did find his explanation of the villanelle to be useful and well explained.
Thank you Andrew Barker for a lucid lecture. You are a super guide in the land of English poetry. Hans Vles, Middelburg, The Netherlands.
Well Dr. Andrew Baker, definitively your wise words have forked a lightning on me. Thank you.
I'd read it differently.
In general I think that one shouldn't read "good night" or "dying of the light" as Death, but rather understand them as a "passive retirement" enforced on you by the circumstances of life itself or by the society.
The message of the poem, then, would be: Do Not Give Up! Do Not Retire! Do Not Let Life Break You!
But let me take it step by step.
- 1. stanza: the second line, "Old age should burn and rave at close of day;" tells you that you shouldn't accept "retirement" before your old age leaves you no choice. Old age should burn ... at close of day, not something else. In other words: Do not accept that "good night", fight against attempts to put out your light.
- 2. stanza: I do not think that "Wise Men" refers to educated men, nor to clever men; I think it refers to men who understand life. I also think that the second line explains how they know that "dark is right". "their words had forked no lighting" is in my opinion a way of saying that others do not care anymore about what they say: their "words" do not have to be a scientific miracle or of academic importance, it could be as simple as loosing the ability to threaten others effectively. Now, "wise men" are people who know this and see it coming.
- 3. stanza: here I agree up to one point. I do not think that he means that "Good Men" cry because of missing opportunities but because of the malevolence of the real world which is destroying their "frail deeds", or its ignorance which does not understand to value their "frail deeds". I also do not think that he means weak by "frail", but rather characteristics/features which require attention and care, like beauty or love for instance ...
- 4. stanza: "Wild Men" - others than "Wise Men" - learn too late! Therefore they grieve when they understand that one can not keep flying with "the sun" for ever. Singing could also refer to bragging. "They grieve it on its way" refers in my opinion to them having learned, too late, that the sun is flying with or without them, so they grieve their loss after they've fallen from their grace.
- 5. stanza: I think that with "Grave Men" he refers to men which although old and near death, despite their "blinding" life experience can still inspire and enjoy.
- 6. stanza: I've got one point to make here.
"Curse, Bless me ..." means that he doesn't care what his father may think about his "payer", he prays it anyway.
I know it sounds unusual, but Chinese has a similar way of building words using two opposite adjective to refer to the noun they are used to describe: for example the characters for tall+short together refer to height, or big+small together refer to size ...
Anyway, I enjoyed your interpretation.
Thank you.
I wish that I had you for a teacher ,86 years ago, no I won't go gently into the light 🎉love you.
As a Hungarian poet, I thank you for this beauty. The English language if you are listening to it generally, or in any kind of professional language, does not show any beauty....by the end of your lecture I felt as I could hear you in Hungarian, becasuse you are speaking so beautifully the English language.....this is the case where the langueges crossing or reaching each other. I love to translate poem and I did understood you....My favorite Hungarian great poet is Attila Jozsef, he was fantastic. Thanks again, Violet from Hungary. And, as an intelligence expert, Gordon Thomas is also a great joy, he is so so clever and he is very honest in everything.
A wonderful explanation of a complicated poem in simple words to a dying man by his son. You have given me much to ponder regarding my life with those I love. Thank you greatly.
Dr. Barker, I love these lectures. I've listened to several of them - a couple several times (because after listening, of course, your mind continues to chew on the subject and I go back to relisten in light of my thoughts. Thank you for sharing these in this fashion. (just so you know your reach, I'm on the West Coast of Canada).
Thank you for this insightful talk on Thomas's classic poem. In my 40's, I have found more interest in poems, which I avoided in my younger years. It seems that a poem can put the reader more precisely in the mindset of an author than prose, perhaps because poems include an element of music.
Yes, something similar happened to me in my 40's too. I think by then I was just willing to put in that extra bit of time to work out what was going on in poems I had previously avoided. While what you say maybe true it's important to note that to get the reader precisely inside a writer's own mindset isn't always what a writer is trying to do when writing a poem. Often it is, but not always. For an obvious example of what we call a "persona poem" check out the lecture on Browning's "My Last Duchess".
Very helpfull video !! I have a different interpretation of the second stanza though !!! For me "because their words have forked no lightning" means that even though those men were wise and said things important for humanity, even they couldn't beat the darkness(death, absurdity of human existence etc etc) ! Of course, being the wisest among us, those men are aware of their inability to exist forever (something that most of us usually tend to ignore), and they express their rage through their work
Mycroft lectures are exceptional! These lectures have made me appreciate poetry like never before...
I would like to request a lecture on Mending Wall by Robert Frost if possible.
Thanks loads :)
Thank you. And yes, it would certainly be the right time for an evaluation of “Mending a Wall”, particularly as the poem’s phrase “good fences make good neighbours” is often used as with positive connotations by people who don’t seem to realize that the narrator of the poem that phrase comes from considers those who use such a phrase to be rather obtuse.
Thank you Dr. Barker...these lectures are gems and much appreciated
To me it makes the best sense to construe the "sad height" as the culmination of one's life, the edge of the precipice before one drops into the abyss of nothingness.
Dr.Barker, I sincerely hope you continue to do more of these lectures. They are brilliant.
Thank you. Much appreciated. More are planned.
In answer to your question, I believe the poem is a prescription for all of us, not an observation. Your thought- provoking interpretation brought tears to my eyes until the end. I don't agree that it was selfish of Thomas not to allow his father to go peacefully. I do not want someone to hold my hand when I'm dying and tell me it's ok to die; in fact, I cringe when people tell me they expressed such sentiments to a dying family member. My mother, at 103, did not go peacefully; and, perhaps selfishly, I did not want her to die - perhaps because I do not believe in an afterlife. I do thank you for your intelligent, excellent presentation and for reminding me that this is, indeed, my favorite poem.
And many thanks for your comment. I certainly share your sentiments about the afterlife. And would be as revolted as yourself at the, God is waiting for you set. I think what I was getting at is the idea that sometimes people have just had enough and they are at ease with their passing, their raging and fighting is over, and they are just in too much pain to continue. Often, all too often, this is the case. And Dylan, in this poem, shows the reluctance of those left behind to let this be so. So I'd stand my my assertion that the poem is as much about the emotions of the son, as it is advice to the dying. I'd have to say though, a good rage first is probably the best initial reactions to the appearance of the dying of the light in almost all circumstances.
@@mycroftlectures Thank you for your kind reply, Dr. Barker. Yes, I agree it is as much about Dylan Thomas' own emotions as it is about how his father is actually feeling. I think I must come to terms with that about myself. I do agree that the last thing one wants is to see someone they love suffering in pain. The bottom line, I guess, is that it's a tough call. Thanks again for your intelligent and thorough analysis!
4th stanza--I had never realized how important were the words "caught" and "sang". I have always taken the phrase in altogether-- "who caught and sang the sun in flight". I never wondered what was meant by "caught" or "sang". "Caught" seems very definitive and possessive, whereas I am sure I always have felt it to mean "grasp tenuosly" or "hent". I have never wondered what was meant by "sang" but yes, it must absolutely mean "laud, "glorify" or "explain". Bravo again sir!
Some great points here. I am always fascinated by the specifics of word choice in poetry. (And theatre incidentally, where line readings can change whole passages and hence a whole play). Some criticize this attention as pedantic, but as poetry is the shortest and surely the most specific of written artistic endeavors, the close examination of "Why use that word over that word? What is achieved by putting the words in this order?" seems to me exactly what a poet is doing anyway in a poem's construction, (at least, I am), and attention paid to it is the relevant homage of the enthusiast. I mention all this in acknowledgement of your clear interest in the reverberations of the well chosen word, which we plainly share. Many thanks for your comments.
Wow! If only I had such wonderful teachers how much more I could have appreciated literature. Thank you for sharing this video.
This poem is definitely an encouraging poem. The poem explores human’s helplessness which is associated with their growing old and approaching toward death. The poem might actually have discussed some aspect of death and dying, however, it might be more apparent that the poem is about the life and how people should live their lives when examined closer. Thomas encourages all people who are confronted with dying and death to sharing their passion for live and wage a war against death, even if he knows that people of all sorts - wise, good, and wild men - in the end have inevitably to cave in it. The repetition of the line ‘Rage, rage against the dying of the light’ highlights human being’s struggle to survive and fight against death. The speaker claims that human being should not surrender to death, rather, we have to fight against death. All sort of people might have regret about the ways they lived their lives, and all the things or events that they did not do so far. People should fight against death with every fiber of their being in order to make more impacts of their lives. In fact, Thomas might urge people to diminish their fear of aging, dying, and death, to live their lives to its full extent and to achieve the greatest degree of self-value even though they learn that there is an end of life. We all realize that death must finally come in our entire life. However, the speaker of the poem encourages us fight against the death and dying, but not to mutely accept that kind of so-call ‘fate’. People should have their active to live on no matter any circumstance and age.
I truly despise the academic approach to analyses of poems, because as scientific, structured and objective a they may seem, the underlying factor in all poetry is emotion, which can never be objective. The passion is what counts. And I can find no poem Mir passionate, no poem more emotional, no poem more relatable, no poem more insightful, than this one.
While your insight into it is great, I believe personally that the value carried by it is much simpler than that. It is in fact as simple as it gets. Brutally straightforward.
Fuck death.
That's all there is to it. No grandiose prescription on life, it's values, fate, or your place in it. No matter who you are, what you do, what you have done, and what time you have left, fuck death. Everyone, regardless of circumstance, should fight in their dying moments until they are killed, but never surrender. This is the sole position standing in direct opposition of "this is the way the world ends, not with a bang, but a whimper." No matter what, never whimper. No matter what, do everything in your power to make sure you bang.
No matter how I die, even if I'm in a hospital bed, about to pass of old age, I'll be doing it kicking and screaming, with all the strength I have left. Even if all I have power to do, is to make my eyes burn. Because fuck death.
That's the grand truth of this poem, from which all other sub points may be derived, but without which no further point can make sense.
The first time I read this poem, I found it pretty confusing. I only caught that it was about death. After a bit of research, I found myself at this video. This poem has definitely left an impact on my life. It's helped me realize that the one thing that's fair to all men is death. I don't really think it's possible to be satisfied with everything we've done at the end of our life. We're bound to have regrets. However, I want to be someone who leaves a positive impact on the world. I want my words to have meaning. It isn't possible for one person to change the world, but it is possible to leave a good feeling to those around you. It also helped me realize that even though I'm bound to have regrets at the end of my life, I want to have as few as I can. I want to do things I love. I want to do things that can benefit others and the community around me. I want to tell people what's on my mind and when. I will read this poem for years to come. I believe I will take something different from it each time.
Me too.
love this channel.Dr Barker really gives a clear idea bout the poems.
Beautiful delightful and informative presentation worthy of a beautiful poem and deserving of high praise. Thank you ever so much.
I couldn't but wonder why Dylan did not take heed of his wise counsel when it came to the manner of his own death. But for alcohol, we might've had many more years of beautiful poetry.
Ok. That was a very nice lecture. It was interesting to learn about the form, and to hear an interpretation of why the poem is so effective and so famous.
I do love your preference for "gentle" over the grammatically correct "gently". I had never considered the possible reference to the gentleman doing what was "correct".
When my dad was dying, at one point he was in extreme pain. My nephew and I were trying to help hm. My nephew and I looked at each other and said, at the same time, “F Dylan Thomas”. We both started laughing.
I can imagine exactly the same thing. While his words may be inspirational for some, many, there comes a time when to go gentle into whatever night awaits is the best and most hopeful thing to do.
i like this bloke ! I am a (published) poet but i am always learning, always, always learning
Hope you keep making more videos explaining more poems, your explanation is really helpful and illuminating
Thank You Dr.Barker
Thank you so much, Dr. Baker. You made this very easy to understand for someone that finds it hard to understand poetry. You nailed it for me. Glad to have come across this video!
Ah, the wonder of an intelligent lecture. Thank you very much, Dr Barker.
I am new to poetry and Dylan Thomas and started looking into it based on a recommendation of my aunt. I fell upon your video when trying to understand it. THANK YOU SO MUCH for taking the time to make this, I found it fantastically interesting and helpful
Glad to have been of help.
I think of this poem as,
Do not just live for the sake of it. Make something good out of it.
Yep.
I see the last lines of the second, third, fourth and fifth stanza as being observations of actions - on a surface level. But the more times I read the poem, the more it seems to me, that for Thomas they were lamentations, not for the men, but for his father. They are something he would be screaming in his head in his grief.
He is most strongly pushing Mankind to fight against destiny...no matter how you have lived your life do it
I like the way simple adjectives “Good”, “Wild” and “Grave” were used to describe different men, no matter what they did in their lives, these men are linked with the metaphors mostly at the end of a line.
The use of active verbs makes a great contradiction with one dying man, usually the mean is weak and death comes to him. I think if he goes into that good night, this is actually a fight back to death.
I have to ask how.
Wonderful experience! I feel this is asks us to saviour every moment of our lives.
Amazing dr. Barker! Thanks a lot.
It almost seems as though this poem is Thomas dealing with his perception of his father as being mediocre. He seems to be saying
"Hey pops,
all these other people who failed managed to recognize their smallness in the world once they were leaving it. You, however, are resigned to your fate. How are you ok with this? Curse me, bless me, do anything, but do it with the passion of man who realizes life is precious and fleeting for God's sake!"
I have to say, I think that that's an excellent rendering, in the simplest terms, of what's being said. Couldn't have put it better myself. Perhaps, if I may venture an extra thought, the only bit I'd add is this idea I maintain that the poem is as much about the son's desperate fear of losing the father, as it is about his advice to the father on how best to leave our lives. I do particularly like you final sentence here, "Curse me, bless me, do anything, but do it with the passion of man who realizes life is precious and fleeting for God's sake!"
I am analytical, and to have a poem taken apart and explained is so lovely. I knew it was a beautiful poem, but this lecture made me see different aspects of it. I will always see it differently. Well done, you.
Many thanks. I must confess to a slight but definite irritation with people who claim that close analysis of poetry is done by people who don't like poetry and should be avoided. The logic of this position states that those NOT looking closely at a piece of poetry enjoy and appreciate that piece of poetry more than those to DO look closely at it. If someone has not looked closely at something, (anything), why would they have the arrogance to claim they appreciate that something more than someone who has the interest and takes the time to look at that thing closely? A minor peeve. Thanks for your comment.
mycroftlectures I have taught math, and I always tried to give my students all ways of looking at a problem, so everyone could learn to solve it. I would wait for them to have the aha moment, and there is great joy to be had in opening up a new idea for someone. You have that gift. Thanks again.
I thought Thomas is saying that despite the fact that these men might have regrets about how they lived their lives, and the things that they didn’t do, they still “rage, rage against the dying of the light.” Even they fight off death with every fiber of their beings, perhaps even more so because they felt that they led ineffectual lives, and want more time to make an impact.
The first time I came across this poem was when I watched the movie "Interstellar" in 2014. It was recited by Michael Caine to tell the main characters not to give up on saving the Earth. It was cool and it gave me goosebumps which I really like this poem. I like the poem as it spreads positive feelings for me that it is life affirming that we should live our life to the fullest and do not go without a fight. This is important life lesson that we should not sit there and wait for the end and we should make use of life to the fullest. "Do not go gentle into that good night" and "Rage, rage against the dying of the light" are my two best sentences in the poem. No wonder the poet used these 2 lines a lot in the villianelle. I like "Rage, rage against the dying of the light" particularily the most because it gave the readders a sense of power to feel angry and to fight against death.
On whether Dylan Thomas was observing the ways that wise men, good men, wild men and grave men or that he was instructing them what should be done when they faced death, the way I see it is that the 3,4,5 stanza had two meanings. Thus, he was both observing them and telling his dying father to be like them. What I mean is that because how can it be that the wise men had no words that were important, the good men cried that they had no better opportunities, unless they were being modest. But still, given their qualities in life, they still rage against death. He compared his father with these men. "Look at these people, they had lived life to their fulliest and still they fought against death. You, my father, be like them. Rage against death." So the last sentences "Do not go gentle into that good night" and "Rage, rage against the dying of the light" of each stanza which involved the good, wild, grave men , I believe, it was addressing to his father too.
I imagine that in this poem, the poetic persona was crying in his eyes as his dying father was lying on the bed. He used examples to tell his father not to give up and he could rise up to talk to him. Although it was like inhumane for a dying father to keep on living if he had bad health issues, it was only human nature that the loved ones do not want them to go away. So in this poem, if we cut out the part where the poet was addressing to his father, it was a heart-felt, and full of life poem.
The questions I had concerned about the poem were that what do you mean that he was breaking the iambic pentameter? (I undertsand the part about the good men. wild men, grave men were interchangeble). Can you explain more? And what is his intention of writing this poem? I understand what the poet actually said in the poem with your help but is it the same as what he wants to write? Or it is up to us to interpret this poem?
Alex. To answer your question "I understand what the poet actually said in the poem with your help but is it the same as what he wants to write?" How would we honestly know what someone WANTED to write? They may even go so far as to us specifically what they WANTED to write but that would not necessarily mean they succeeded in their endeavors. What is there for us to discuss is what the poet actually wrote. The actual words on the page are there for us to examine and enjoy. For students and teachers the "poet's intention" way of examining a poem is very problematic. Students have to not only guess what the poet intended, they have to guess what the teacher guesses the poet intended. And that can get further and further away from the words on the page that the poet actually wrote.
All that can be good fun of course, but for me, the words of any piece of literature are what most matters in entertaining and appreciative analysis.
Yes! And because they were merely wise but had not really lived they most certainly "do not go gentle..." Bravo Andrew.
Thank you for your making your analysis of “Do not go gentle…”
It was so personal and humble.
There was so much for me to disagree with, and has given me food for thought on essential life issues for the remainder of my days of breath.
this is the best explanation i've ever heard.
Extremely interesting interpretation of this poem, it has helped shed a different light on some of the parts of this poem for me, thank you
You are greatttt
SUBSTANTIAL ANALYSIS AND FELT APPRECIATION, THANK U!
sir, your lectures are very helpful. please continue to do more.
Thank you. Hoping for many more lectures.
I am genuinely impressed by Thomas’s use of metaphors throughout the poem to show how inevitable - and hence invincible - a force death is and how little, if any, effect human agency has in evading it. I am also very much inspired by the ways in which he played with the poetic form (as a villanelle) and words to illustrate the importance of keeping up a fighting spirit, which I believe he saw as the worth of being a human.
Most of the metaphors of life and death used in the poem are about nature: wave/ bay; sun (dawn/ dusk); light/ night (except that light can also mean candle light). These metaphors highlight the fact that death is a force of nature against which humans have no chance of winning whatsoever - it is a losing battle essentially.
Although I may have gone a little too far, I tend to think that the lines of the first stanza, all of which end with death (i.e. ‘night’ / ‘close of night’ / ‘the dying of the light’), make an effect in explaining death as imminent and as a matter of course - A life ends with death, so is a line.
Thomas observed that because death is so invincible, life so brief, and human so fragile, our deeds against death are ‘frail’ - simply quite useless. And with this cruel fact in mind, people of all sorts - wise, good, and wild men - lament their tragic fates. That being said, Thomas believed humans should not give up so quickly and so easily. Rather, humans should put up a good fight like those wise and grave men even though they know they are destined to lose - perhaps, I guess, for the solace of mind.
The line ‘Rage, rage against the dying of the light’ is repeated throughout the poem - as a feature of villanelle. And I think such repetition makes the line very much like a slogan chanted in a movement - a rebellion - to incite people.
And in order to emphasise the importance of keeping up a good fighting spirit, Thomas had made an exaggeration - a lie even - by saying that even the dying blind can still see and be happy if they put their minds to it - ‘Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay’.
Surely I have the greatest respect for Thomas’s well-intended encouragement: Humans may not evade death, but we can choose our manner of dying, which is not to surrender to death so easily; and I quite agree with him (though he didn’t quite explicitly say it in the poem) that life is too brief and we need to live hard in order that we don’t regret too much on our deathbeds. That being said, I’ll have to admit that I have a rather different attitude towards death. As reflected in the poem, death is a matter of course. In this light, why shouldn’t we gracefully embrace it rather than to desperately struggle against it? As one of my favourite novel characters - Albus Dumbledore from Harry Potter - once says, ‘Death is but another great adventure.’
To answer the final question. The poet, and his father, apparently don't see death as "but the next great adventure," as we are told the "well-organized mind," should do, by see it as "the dying of the light," "the end". Theists believe something extra happens to a human being when it dies, those who are not theists don't believe that, or at least would ask for some verifiable evidence on existence after death before forming an opinion on it. I've often noted what a massive difference this can make in the way people respond to literature. For example, if you honestly, honestly, believe that you are going to another life or an afterlife when you die, your reaction to the end of life must be very different from those who believe that after death there is nothing. (As in "no thing.") Thus your response to the way a character responds to a loved one's death or awaits their own death will change.
That 's what we call "reader response" in one of its rawest forms. Our emotional response to the poem depends on already held beliefs of our own.
I would add, that when we deal with death, theism in general perhaps, many have a tendency to read things into the poem that aren't there, or can't be made to be seen there in the words the poet wrote. I have read responses to this poem for instance that don't say, as you say "I have a rather different attitude towards death," but say that the poem says things about death that the words of the poem simply can't be read as having said. It is important to note, the obvious fact, that other writers don't always share the same beliefs as us, and can have voiced beliefs directly opposite to our own.
This is a good observation, by the way.
"The line ‘Rage, rage against the dying of the light’ is repeated throughout the poem - as a feature of villanelle. And I think such repetition makes the line very much like a slogan chanted in a movement - a rebellion - to incite people."
Ps
I'd like to add to this something I say in another comment, and in part in the video.
The idea that the "night" of "Do not go gentle into that good night," is "good" may suggest that Thomas believes in an afterlife or another life by virtue of the very fact that he claims that that night would be "good." For the afterlife or other life to be either good or bad it would surely have to exist in the first place. To counter this, I would suggest that the end of life could be considered to be good if that life was so agonizing at the point of death that the no thing of death would be preferable.
As I type this I am inclined to believe that the line "Do not go gentle into that good night," certainly suggests a theistic belief in something after death to me.
Amazing lectures! Just in response to that last thought: though I understand how the "good night" could associate itself to a theistic afterlife, I think it wouldn't make as much sense for the poem to then encourage a rageful, raving, rebellious attitude towards it. I think, as you touch on in this same comment, lots of people have different ideas about death, but even among the most faithful believers in a good afterlife, most people tend to still generally treat death as a negative, dreaded event. It feels like the night is "good" ironically, or "poetically", or mabe he even means it overly politely, like referring to someone as the "good man" when you dont mean it haha.
3rd stanza again--I don't see it as a lack of opportunity but as a shrinking into complacency from endless opportunities.
Interesting take.
That was an amazing well constructed lecture and it really did make me appreciate the poem to a much higher degree!
I have just come across this interpretation of this poem. My interpretation of the line “And you, my father, there on the sad height, Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears I pray” would be that he’s angry at his father in the moment of his death(sad height....pinnacle of his death) curse, (curse word eg FFS) bless me now with your fierce tears I pray( give me your blessing/acceptance before you die I’m begging you)
Eg FFS dad can’t you even say something kind to me on your deathbed you angry old bugger.
Nice. I'm not sure I agree with it as the most likely or obvious reading, but this does not matter as it certainly makes sense as a reading, and goes us a 'getting more for our money' way of looking at the line, which I always like. Thanks.
Very interesting lecture that sparked some thoughts, perhaps divergent. I am wondering if the simplest interpretation of the poem is that the anger and rage is Thomas's own rage against death, and he wishes to project that anger onto his dying father, perhaps to legitimise the angry emotions he is feeling himself.
This was partly prompted by hearing a different lecture on the poem where the lecturer, by slip of the tongue, let slip the phrase "Bless me, father", which as I understand it, is what Catholics say at the start of confession: "Bless me, father, for I have sinned". Since the two come so close together "And you, my father ... Curse, bless me" that I wonder if there is indeed a confessional element. He knows, perhaps that the anger he feels is irrational, and to an extent selfish, and he wants his father to "Bless" him by cursing the coming darkness - if his father were to rage against it, then the rage he feels will not seem so bad.
I had not thought of it that way before - but as you have said, it's impossible to know what the poet really meant, and there may be alternative interpretations - but it seems to be that's what it says to me at the moment.
+Iain Strachan Hi Iain. Yes, that's exactly how I see it myself. And this is a reading that I haven't heard elsewhere either. In these Mycroft lectures I've tried to select poems that I feel I can add something beyond what appears as the usual reading, and here it is the idea, that you express very concisely, that what we are reading is not so much intended as inspiring instruction to the dying father, but as the son's anger and desperation at his own loss.
Maybe he saw his father as all of the type of men mentioned in the poem. Perhaps also a way for Thomas to remind himself not to be weak in the way he observed his father.
I interpreted the poem in a similar but slightly different way. Wise men when they die exolt their words of wisdom on anyone who would listen. Therefore they don't go quietly.
Good men regret what they haven't done. Therefore they do go quietly and Dylan Thomas is telling them to fight for more good deeds. Same with the Wild men. They learned too late they are going to die, however because they lived life to the fullest they have no cares in the world and if they die oh well and he is telling them to fight on. Grave men almost seem to be "happy" when the end is near and he is telling them to fight.
His father he, the author, doesn't want to die. In a selfish way he is saying that look at how these others go. Only the wise men don't go quietly by spreading wisdom to any who will listen, he doesn't understand (from an emotional and psychological perspective) how good men, wild men, and grave men can just accept the end without fighting for more.
So in their ends the Good Men want to do more good deeds and are regretful they didn't.
The Wild Men went out the only way they knew how. Wild (drinking, gambling, women etc)
The Grave Men (serious and I agree with this) went out happy. They know they went out with glory they can see that the end is a better place than were they are now. This means their eyes get big, they have 1 more moment where they are at peace, where they finally don't have to be serious and go out Happy.
I think the poet doesn't want those close to him to die. He is explaining how each one does and only that the Wise men go out without going gentle into that good night.
Good men, wild men, serious men all accept the inevitability of their death with regret, not caring, and happiness. This confuses him. Why would a good man have regrets at the end. Why would a wild man not care (he can't be wild when he is dead) and why is the serious man happy? He is selfishly telling those men to fight on. They don't want to.
I think his father was the serious man. The one who accepted death and was happy when "life" was over. He didn't have to be serious any more and for, what looked like the first time in his life, was finally happy. Dillon cannot understand this and as a grieving son wants his father to continue to fight on.
So in my opinion, The Wise men are arrogant to think that their wisdom will carry on.
The Good men, Regret of their Virtue the did good deeds but was it enough
Wild Men, didn't have time to reflect on their life, they just lived and played hard and didn't realize until it was too late that they die and poof they are gone.
the Serious Men, they had time to reflect and they had some virtues, some hedonistic tendencies, some Wisdom, but unlike the others they were at peace with what they did/didn't do.
So he is being selfish saying look at the wise men they don't go quietly, why are all the rest of you? Fight, Damn it Fight.
What, I think, he fails to realize is that only the serious men (they understood the risks, didn't take many, had accomplished things, missed on others but had a fulfilling life are at peace and when they reflect on their life on their death bed their eyes light up like meteors and they are happy/at peace).
I believe this is how his father went out. I am sad that you are at the height and death is inevitable but stay with me because I don't want you to go.
The poem is a good piece. I like the word choice of the poem such as the 'curse-bless' at the last stanza. I think the persona of the poem is so desperate. He knows his father doesn't have a religion, still he wants to meet his father in the afterlife by bless or curse. However, his father is atheistic, which means his father would believe there would be nothing left after death but ash and dust. His father forces him to admit the truth that they are not going to meet again at heaven or hell, or wherever the place. It touches my heart when I read that because the different religious beliefs would suggest different 'afterlives'. This suggest that if your love ones and yourself don't share a same faith, it is quite confused and helpless to face the afterlife issue, since nobody has a clue but it suggests the separation would be forever.
Another thing that interests me is that the interchangeable 'men' at every stanza. I am thinking if it is necessary for a good men to be contributive to the world and make changes? Even though for other men written in the poem, it seems to me like the description of making changes to the world are not the necessary and sufficient conditions for being a good man. So I would like to know why the characteristics of those men are chosen to be written in the poem, but not other features like good man should have good moral standards.
who came here because of Interstellar raise your hand
I wish I had had a teacher like you when I was young! The clarity and spirit of your lecture is wonderful. The manner in which you present your various possible interpretations of words and phrases is highly commendable. Without wishing to appear "superior", your accent(s) is(are) down-to-earth, authentic and adds something special to the realm of poetry and poetic interpretation. You come across very well on the screen, particularly with close-ups, rather than the longer shots where you are at a distanced, off-putting angle to the camera.
I find your final reading of the poem "flat". If you compare it with Richard Burton's version, you will get the South Welsh MUSICALITY of Thomas's poem. Don't forget the South Welsh era of Chapel orators with whom Thomas would have been more than familiar. From Burton's version I also think you will get a close approximation to the question you bring up in your lecture as to how the last lines of the stanzas should be spoken/interpreted. The very punctuation of the stanzas "Good men, the last wave by, ....", leads one to perceive that these people rage, while in the final stanza Thomas actually addresses his father and "Rage, rage ... is no longer descriptive but, rather, a command. Burton, with his majestic voice, makes this interpretation, I believe.
I now very much look forward to follow your poetry channel wit great interest. Many thanks.
So very glad that I have found these lectures - they are excellent - thank you.
Well done. Cheers!
Now I appreciate Interstellar more
I totally disagree with his overall interpretation, but it was useful to listen and I'm grateful to whoever uploaded it.
Einfach-klasse (Simply the Best) piece of teaching of heard in years. Gud on ya mate;)
The good doctor each time reciting substituted "old men" for "old age" and "burn and rage" for "burn and rave." Been trying to memorize and noticed that.
thanks for helping me enjoy this!
Thank you so much for making this video. It helped me tremendously in understanding this beautiful poem.
Great piece of information. I am very grateful Dr. Barker. Keep blessed all the time x
It's pretty much confusing,thanks for making it a bit simpler,sir❤
Thank you for this. I am making an effort to learn about poetry from scratch and this helped me build confidence that understanding is possible.
I love your answer to, "What as the poet thinking when he wrote this?" Which was ,"I don't know I'm not a mind reader!" I started laughing! Love it. I'm a writer too, and on occasion, people will take my writing to mean something entirely different than what I was thinking about. This one comment made my day! I totally relate.
Thank you so much! Learning how to read and catch the meaning of a poem !
Fascinating talk, this. I appreciate your insight into this legendary poem. Couple questions and observations:
Regarding "grave men" - I could understand as "serious," but could this designation also refer to the "evil" man, men of death, of the grave? Seems a bit more fitting, relative to "wild" and "good" men, no? The "evil" man sees their truth so fiercely that they blaze like meteors - crashing their reality in others. Meteor is an interesting word here in that it can be seen as an inert mass of the cosmos, but relative to the human experience (especially when referenced in light of death), "meteor" suggests destruction - acts typically signatures of "evil" men who would most certainly rage against death not necessarily for guilt (as they are blind) but for more affirmation to prove what they see.
Regarding advice to one experiencing the passing of a loved one - I fully agree that it IS selfish advice to the mourner, witnessing death actually taking its toll. But perhaps this too is an observation as it feels like the natural gear shift for ones we truly love to kick and scream from being taken away. However, by removing the specific context of a young man experiencing his fathers death, this could be exceptional advice to those not in the immediate presence of death's bed via debilitation, sickness or injury. We are all dying as we age, thus should we not rage against the impartial cruelty of time's passage? Passivity, conformity and acceptance of expectation all but resign us to the kind of regret one would seethe in rage over if one was cognizant of this revelation in the final moments. Live life! We don't set the terms of death, but can choose how we meet it with the life that led to it.
Finally, "And you, my father," - it actually DOES seem like an accusation on repeat readings. There's good men, wild men, grave men and then there's you. However, upon an initial reading after some time away from the poem, the welling emotion of "And you, my father," fills me with sympathy in an odd way, akin to breaking the fourth wall. I feel like I am now speaking those words, rather than the author to his father. I am now the one suddenly taking my own father and I out of time and space, removed from everything and everyone, to recognize our unique relationship and to fight tooth and nail to maintain it.
Thank you once again for your discourse and your candor. The internet is redeemed ever so slightly with this type of content. The sort which rages against the dying of the light.
Thank you very much for this. Both for the praise and the extra analysis. I'm always grateful when someone adds a few extra possible "sides" to a poem I have known for a long time and yet hadn't previously contemplated. I think what you say in the second and third paragraphs is wonderfully well put and observed, especially what you say about "removing the specific context of a young man experiencing his father's death, this could be exceptional advice to those not in the immediate presence of death's bed via debilitation, sickness or injury." Though the poem IS specifically an address to the poet's father, it doesn't HAVE to be read by us as such. And when we don't read it this way, or just this way, there is sound advice there for us all.
In the first paragraph, I like what you say about "men of the grave" a lot too.The grave or "evil" man who sees their truth so fiercely that they blaze like meteors - crashing their reality in others. To read grave men as "men OF the grave" and not "men NEAR the grave" as I do, seems to me a stretch, but certainly not something stretched to breaking point, and the extension of the idea works very profitably for an alternative reading of the stanza to mine. VERY profitably, actually. Given time I may even prefer it. Yours is one of those comments I think it would be very useful for students of the poem to read to take on board these alternative and equally enlightening, (I like to think), readings, I apologize for taking so long to reply.
Very nicely done ...Thank you!
Would everyone stop being so erudite. To me, at age 64, it means, GO OUT WITH A BANG and be remembered for the small good works you have done in your life on Planet Earth.
This was me and moms saying just go out with a bang and not give up let em work for it
Mom was 65
This is a great analysis of the poem without any of the context of the relationship Dylan had with his father. Would it be more complete if the history of their relationship had been included? Maybe. But there is something to be said for death of the author. A work can and does exist by itself. Love this channel.
I think rather it's a younger man not totally understanding the final chapter of all life. I think he was in that first or second stage of grief: anger and denial of the finality which comes to us all.
I like this poem a lot as even though you won't read it to your dying one, but it reflects how you should never surrender to death so in a way, this poem is not about his father's death but to state his way of life? There is the lack of fear of death and defeat in his tone throughout the poem with his choice of words. Or maybe there is fear and denial but he is telling people to triumph over the fear, and the grief. Yes our entire life i's just closer to death everyday, "dying of the light" and it is inevitable. But we cannot admit defeat and succumbs over it, we cannot choose the easier path no matter how tempting it is.
Wow, it seems like a lot of thought was put into this lecture... I'm really feeling your passion for the subject. I particularly liked that you took some time to clarify how these lines don't always have one clear interpretation. So good!
No passionn just pedantic.
Really i have a lot of extra to add to these, for 22:00 it feels to me how it's almost a play with the word gentle. Frail deeds might refer to how humbly they think of the good deeds they may have performed in life, green bays may refer to bays that have green water, shallow , not yet deep water full of life, in other words, the youth. It becomes then a regret that they cannot live longer, that they cannot be thr ones to stir the water in a dance in the life of these grandchildren perhaps. It works well when paired with the idea of forked lightning in the previous stanza too. To fork no lightning, to not achieve a breakthrough academic acomplishment is just as daunting to the wise man as what it really means is to not reach the eureka or climax of their research. For the lightning to end before it forks, or in other words to end without having achieved a satisfactory conclusion as lightning normally ends after it forks, not simply as a straight streak, at least as an idea here. Both have the theme of being just short of what they wanted to be. A wise man should not resign to death when there is research still uncloncluded, a good man should not be so content with death when they have not filled their kin with all the virtue and moral fiber they have spent their life performing.
Wow! Some great stuff there. I very much appreciate the fact that I can still get to hear new interpretations of lines in work I had not considered. I particularly like the lightning one and "the theme of being just short of what they wanted to be." I also like the idea that it is not Dylan but the men themselves who consider their deeds "frail." I hope that this is a comment many others get to read as it shows some useful additional readings to the ones I put forth. Thank you. Andrew Barker
A gorgeous reading and wonderful lecture.
Words Forked no lighting...these wise men have left some things unsaid..or unresolved... plausible?
Thanks for the explanation, very insightful.
The first and only lecture that really explains the meaning of this poem. Thank you.
By the way, Andrew Barker is a copy of Dylan Thomas!
You are awesome, man!
All great poems give context over to the reader. As the feelings of the reader change so can the way, and the meaning of the poem change. That ability to give simplicity in the many complexities of life make this one of the great poems. I have read it many times and feel that no two readings are the same. Whether the rage is observed, demanded or reflected in how the reader is feeling can change how we read, feel an portray it. That is its power. Its beauty. Please do not analyse too much. Simply absorb it. Feel it. Love it.
Never give up. I rage.
First when I read it, I could get some broad meaning .But after listening to Dr Barker, I could get immersed in his detailed analysis. Thank you very much, Excellent poem.
Think for yourself.