Nice explanation. Another advantage of your 12V setup is there are 4 PSU, so a PSU fail is less likely to dim the whole works. 💡 Look at strut pipe clamps to anchor the controller to the pipe
Well - that depends on how you look at it. The 4 PSU's in the 12v tree each have 25% of the tree connected and the other 75% of the tree is not connected to that particular PSU. So, if the PSU were to go out, "dimming" wouldn't happen, simply 25% of the tree would stop working. The 5V tree is similar in that it has 2 PSU's - so 50% would go out. The PSU's don't provide equal power to all pixels to back one another up. The strap on the 5V tree/controller box has served me well!
Thank you so much for your video. I already have a 12v mega tree and I am planning to add a second mega tree. I am debating whether or not to use 5v pixels or 12v pixels. I heard that 5v pixels has a lower failure rate. Based on our two megatrees, which one is having more pixel failure, the 5v or the 12 v. Thanks.
that's a highly debatable discussion. Pixel quality has more to do with the manufacturer and the type of pixel rather than the voltage. We have had a lot of 5V Rextin pixels that are exceptionally reliable (I believe I've replaced 3 or 4 in 3 years out of around 15k). That 5v tree was also originally made with cheap 5v pixels from (Ali) that had constant failures and all needing replaced beginning of 2nd year. 12V pixels can highly vary as well. We've had really good luck with YPS Improved pixels (1 or 2 replaced out of around 10k in first season) and with VLS pixels (1 was bad out of the box but a new string was sent immediately) - and I know their manufacturer is, probably, the best. We also discuss some other pixels we have hands on in some of our other videos - so feel free to check them out, comment, and I'll do my best to respond!
Thank you so much Charlee for the very good explanation. Ive seen your other video explaining the features of each type of pixels that you are usng. My goal for next year is to have more time to enjoy my show as opposed to fixing pixels every day and sometimes going to the roof which I hate and can only do on weekends. My plan was to use your model of using 32 ports daisy chained smart receivers with 5v pixels. I will be using 150 pixels per string/per port. Can i do that without power injecting? I dont really want to do power injection. I am currently using 5v LED strip 420 pixels for my window and 5v 540 pixels for my garage outline. I'm not using power injection for both. What is the max pixels at 30% brightness I can go without power injecting 5v pixels. I'm inspired by the performance of your 5v pixel and I heard someone from Australia using 5v that he has not fixed any in 4 years. If you were to do it all over gain which type of pixels do you use @@CharleesProps
@@randybaron5190 you're welcome but the people typing are either Kristy or Thom.... Charlee is our German Shepherd. As we say.... "we have 2 boys and couldn't name it after 1, so Charlee it is!"
@@randybaron5190 To touch on the rest.... 5V is a lot of work. The amount of 5v pixels before you need power balancing varies between manufacturers - having largely to do with wire gauge. Many that you can buy from more "reputable" sellers sell 5v with larger gauge wire - allowing you to stretch the number of pixels where you don't see color loss (even at 30%) to 100 maybe 200. Rextins are about 50-70 pixels needing balancing. This year almost all of our additional pixels were 12V YPS improved version. They are a little more but pretty darn reliable. The difference is just a couple pixels per 5k - practically nothing to mention. You could do the receivers daisy chained - but consider, instead, the cost of the receivers vs the 5v / 12v improved pixels.
Thank you very Thom. I already ordered 7k of 5volts yesterday. I missed your video of the YPS 12 volts improved version. I would like to try that on my next order. It’s always good to get opinion from someone who has direct experience. Thank you for your valuable advice.
The purpose of the 12v tree was to be simple and straight forward - no power injection/balancing, no worries about a pixel going out and causing failures elsewhere. 1 string = 1 port. We did have issues with pixels and, particularly, some of the Xconnect ends getting water in. That means that I would have 1 string with issues rather than large amounts of the tree. Our 5v tree did have issues 1 year and it would wipe out 25% of the tree every time it had an issue.
There's nothing to stop you using 5v or 12v with either method. The voltage is irrelevant. Voltage only comes into it when working out power injection or balancing.
That's true. You can port pack with 12v but you would need to power balance/inject. This video is meant to show the 2 polar mindsets of 5v vs 12v that exist - 5v tends to port pack because of the inherent need to inject/balance at a much lower pixel threshhold; 12v tends to use a lot less pixels per port and not worry, at all, about injection/balancing.
Voltage drop is going to be worse at 5v. 12v pixels draw less current. therefore have less voltage drop. If you were going to use less ports, that require power injection, 12v would be better.
12V pixels, for typical WS2811, actually draw more current because they're actually a 5v pixel that are individually dropped to 5v using either a resistor or a regulator. This doesn't apply to native 12v pixels (like EVO and 8208's) - but most 12v pixels are this way. This, in part, is why the 5V pixels actually take less power. Further, the wire size and length of extension will play a big part of the voltage drop through resistance in the lines.
@@CharleesProps I empirically tested a friends Alitove 5V (qty 50) vs my Rextin 12V (qty 50) WS2811's. The 12v Rextin drew 1/2 the current and the Rextins had higher illumination output. I was surprised. Best I can tell Rextin uses LEDs with two PN junctions in series, which is what Worldsemi says to use for 12v.
Correction, they say to use 3, not two. Also, the WS2811 have a constant current circuit in the chip itself, which drives the LEDs. The datasheet calls for resistor on the VDD for both 5V and 12V. There is an additional resistor for 12V that helps with constant current circuit, and it is only on the Red LED.
Are you factoring current draw at 12v vs current draw at 5v? Light output of the pixels will have more to do with the batch, the chip, and the diffuser than much anything else - all things considered equal. Almost all of our 5v pixels are Rextin (about 95%). I've had pixels from the same manufacturer but different batches look different. We have worked with thousands of 12v pixels from a variety of companies. All but the DUO and EVO's are rated at 0.06A ea at 100%. That includes 5v. The difference being that amperage draw on 12v pixels is the same at 12v. So, a 300W PSU on 5v can power around twice as many lights as a 12V psu can on those factors (that's not the exact math).
The center base was a fixture (free) from a store that went out of business. It's a large plate steel with a welded gusseted steel "nut" and a threaded pipe. Our center pipe then sleeves over that pipe. There's a unistrut that bolts to that pipe, then to some brackets I welded to the steel plate, then out to the modified round haybale feeder.
So it looks like your 12V tree is built using a triangle truss. I was thinking about doing the same thing. Could you post some pictures or make a video of that setup? And, how do you like it compared to the pole style setup?
The 12V tree is built on an antenna truss and also meant to be, other than the stakes, non intrusive and not permanent. It's extremely stable, to the point that I climb it to get the strips up. I will create a video as I am beginning setup of that tree starting today.
Yes, this video shows the 2 general extremes of how 5v and 12v can be tackled. There are many variances in between and neither are right, wrong, nor difinitive!
@@CharleesProps Hello, I'm very happy to have found your videos . I'm waiting for all my stuffs (12 v Strings and components) to be received from China and USA (Falcon F16V5) and will assembled with a trampoline base already bought; It is the first time that I see trees with such kind of diy base as mine. Here in Quebec Canada we have a lot of snow in Christmas Time on the ground so it is a must to install the base tree at 2 feet from the ground. I follow you for sure.
Nice explanation. Another advantage of your 12V setup is there are 4 PSU, so a PSU fail is less likely to dim the whole works.
💡 Look at strut pipe clamps to anchor the controller to the pipe
Well - that depends on how you look at it. The 4 PSU's in the 12v tree each have 25% of the tree connected and the other 75% of the tree is not connected to that particular PSU. So, if the PSU were to go out, "dimming" wouldn't happen, simply 25% of the tree would stop working. The 5V tree is similar in that it has 2 PSU's - so 50% would go out. The PSU's don't provide equal power to all pixels to back one another up.
The strap on the 5V tree/controller box has served me well!
Thank you.
Thank you so much for your video. I already have a 12v mega tree and I am planning to add a second mega tree. I am debating whether or not to use 5v pixels or 12v pixels. I heard that 5v pixels has a lower failure rate. Based on our two megatrees, which one is having more pixel failure, the 5v or the 12 v. Thanks.
that's a highly debatable discussion. Pixel quality has more to do with the manufacturer and the type of pixel rather than the voltage.
We have had a lot of 5V Rextin pixels that are exceptionally reliable (I believe I've replaced 3 or 4 in 3 years out of around 15k). That 5v tree was also originally made with cheap 5v pixels from (Ali) that had constant failures and all needing replaced beginning of 2nd year.
12V pixels can highly vary as well. We've had really good luck with YPS Improved pixels (1 or 2 replaced out of around 10k in first season) and with VLS pixels (1 was bad out of the box but a new string was sent immediately) - and I know their manufacturer is, probably, the best.
We also discuss some other pixels we have hands on in some of our other videos - so feel free to check them out, comment, and I'll do my best to respond!
Thank you so much Charlee for the very good explanation. Ive seen your other video explaining the features of each type of pixels that you are usng. My goal for next year is to have more time to enjoy my show as opposed to fixing pixels every day and sometimes going to the roof which I hate and can only do on weekends. My plan was to use your model of using 32 ports daisy chained smart receivers with 5v pixels. I will be using 150 pixels per string/per port. Can i do that without power injecting? I dont really want to do power injection. I am currently using 5v LED strip 420 pixels for my window and 5v 540 pixels for my garage outline. I'm not using power injection for both. What is the max pixels at 30% brightness I can go without power injecting 5v pixels. I'm inspired by the performance of your 5v pixel and I heard someone from Australia using 5v that he has not fixed any in 4 years. If you were to do it all over gain which type of pixels do you use @@CharleesProps
@@randybaron5190 you're welcome but the people typing are either Kristy or Thom.... Charlee is our German Shepherd. As we say.... "we have 2 boys and couldn't name it after 1, so Charlee it is!"
@@randybaron5190 To touch on the rest.... 5V is a lot of work. The amount of 5v pixels before you need power balancing varies between manufacturers - having largely to do with wire gauge. Many that you can buy from more "reputable" sellers sell 5v with larger gauge wire - allowing you to stretch the number of pixels where you don't see color loss (even at 30%) to 100 maybe 200. Rextins are about 50-70 pixels needing balancing. This year almost all of our additional pixels were 12V YPS improved version. They are a little more but pretty darn reliable. The difference is just a couple pixels per 5k - practically nothing to mention.
You could do the receivers daisy chained - but consider, instead, the cost of the receivers vs the 5v / 12v improved pixels.
Thank you very Thom. I already ordered 7k of 5volts yesterday. I missed your video of the YPS 12 volts improved version. I would like to try that on my next order. It’s always good to get opinion from someone who has direct experience. Thank you for your valuable advice.
why u on 12v megatree u have to connect one string per connect? u cant connect all 1 port for the show?
The purpose of the 12v tree was to be simple and straight forward - no power injection/balancing, no worries about a pixel going out and causing failures elsewhere. 1 string = 1 port. We did have issues with pixels and, particularly, some of the Xconnect ends getting water in. That means that I would have 1 string with issues rather than large amounts of the tree. Our 5v tree did have issues 1 year and it would wipe out 25% of the tree every time it had an issue.
understand thank you
There's nothing to stop you using 5v or 12v with either method. The voltage is irrelevant.
Voltage only comes into it when working out power injection or balancing.
That's true. You can port pack with 12v but you would need to power balance/inject. This video is meant to show the 2 polar mindsets of 5v vs 12v that exist - 5v tends to port pack because of the inherent need to inject/balance at a much lower pixel threshhold; 12v tends to use a lot less pixels per port and not worry, at all, about injection/balancing.
Voltage drop is going to be worse at 5v. 12v pixels draw less current. therefore have less voltage drop. If you were going to use less ports, that require power injection, 12v would be better.
12V pixels, for typical WS2811, actually draw more current because they're actually a 5v pixel that are individually dropped to 5v using either a resistor or a regulator. This doesn't apply to native 12v pixels (like EVO and 8208's) - but most 12v pixels are this way. This, in part, is why the 5V pixels actually take less power. Further, the wire size and length of extension will play a big part of the voltage drop through resistance in the lines.
@@CharleesProps I empirically tested a friends Alitove 5V (qty 50) vs my Rextin 12V (qty 50) WS2811's. The 12v Rextin drew 1/2 the current and the Rextins had higher illumination output. I was surprised. Best I can tell Rextin uses LEDs with two PN junctions in series, which is what Worldsemi says to use for 12v.
Correction, they say to use 3, not two. Also, the WS2811 have a constant current circuit in the chip itself, which drives the LEDs. The datasheet calls for resistor on the VDD for both 5V and 12V. There is an additional resistor for 12V that helps with constant current circuit, and it is only on the Red LED.
Are you factoring current draw at 12v vs current draw at 5v? Light output of the pixels will have more to do with the batch, the chip, and the diffuser than much anything else - all things considered equal. Almost all of our 5v pixels are Rextin (about 95%). I've had pixels from the same manufacturer but different batches look different.
We have worked with thousands of 12v pixels from a variety of companies. All but the DUO and EVO's are rated at 0.06A ea at 100%. That includes 5v. The difference being that amperage draw on 12v pixels is the same at 12v. So, a 300W PSU on 5v can power around twice as many lights as a 12V psu can on those factors (that's not the exact math).
@CharleesProps Yes. Almost half the current draw @12v with 12v pixels. I will do a video. Again, I was surprised too.
Could you please add a link to the Amazon pixels you use?
Heres a link to the last ones we bought from Amazon. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AU6UG5C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&th=1
What is the base frame made of?
The center base was a fixture (free) from a store that went out of business. It's a large plate steel with a welded gusseted steel "nut" and a threaded pipe. Our center pipe then sleeves over that pipe. There's a unistrut that bolts to that pipe, then to some brackets I welded to the steel plate, then out to the modified round haybale feeder.
So it looks like your 12V tree is built using a triangle truss. I was thinking about doing the same thing. Could you post some pictures or make a video of that setup? And, how do you like it compared to the pole style setup?
The 12V tree is built on an antenna truss and also meant to be, other than the stakes, non intrusive and not permanent.
It's extremely stable, to the point that I climb it to get the strips up.
I will create a video as I am beginning setup of that tree starting today.
That would be great! I look forward to watching it when it comes out!@@CharleesProps
A simple 5V tree works well.
Yes, this video shows the 2 general extremes of how 5v and 12v can be tackled. There are many variances in between and neither are right, wrong, nor difinitive!
Great video.
On the 12V tree with 32 strings, how many pixels per string?
The 12v tree is 32 strings of 115 each.
@@CharleesProps Hello, I'm very happy to have found your videos . I'm waiting for all my stuffs (12 v Strings and components) to be received from China and USA (Falcon F16V5) and will assembled with a trampoline base already bought; It is the first time that I see trees with such kind of diy base as mine. Here in Quebec Canada we have a lot of snow in Christmas Time on the ground so it is a must to install the base tree at 2 feet from the ground. I follow you for sure.