The best way to measure your own pride is to ask God to let you know when you are prideful and for Him to give you a humble heart. Be ready though because some of it will be tough. The result will be a true estimation of yourself in the eyes of God.
You have to agree with Dr Kreeft. He summed it up beautifully. Last weeks gospel reading was ask, seek, knock. Our priest told us not to be disappointed if our answer isn't revealed in prayer right away because it is God who is persistent in that reading, not us. Sometimes the story has to unfold a bit longer before the answer is revealed.
I thank God that I was raised partially in a Baptist church where the preacher was very clear that all sin, even the smallest lie, deserves eternal damnation. I suspect it’s because of that I never once took the so called “Problem of Evil” seriously. What could possibly happen to us that would not be better than we deserve? But I understand people who take pride in thier misery, who need to feel persecuted, and who distain all tradition, need a different answer. I have stumbled on one they might bear. It is this, we concede I assume that a life devoid of suffering would be worse than one with some suffering, yes? I could not stand a paradise with no conflict or struggle, no pain and no sacrifice. What sort of life would that be? Certainly not the one God is preparing us for. It will be more than this life but not less. There will be no struggle between good and evil perhaps but there are struggles between greater and lesser goods. There is beauty in rivalry that brings out the best in us. And in suffering for those who bear it nobly. Indeed human life seems a parody of itself without sone suffering. We grant that and we grant that free will inevitably will result in sone suffering. But there is too much sone say. To this I reply, what sort of suffering seems just right? If you think it’s the right kind of suffering, is it really suffering? If it seems like there might always be a point, would you not then find a part of yourself missing? Would it really be possible to hate evil as one is supposed to if we always knew it would or even could come to good? Is life not enriched by seemingly pointless suffering? I think it is. What else would people complain about? What else could drive them to thirst after righteousness? Seemingly pointless suffering, especially when it is someone else’s suffering can be an extremely beneficial thing for a man. Therefore, if we acknowledge that suffering can be for good and only seem evil, then we ought to acknowledge that this good would not be so complete and perfect if the meaning of suffering was always clear. It would defeat the purpose entirely. Therefore it is because the suffering is meaningful that it feels meaningless. But, you may say, if we cannot knw whether the evil has a point or not, why should we suppose it does? To that I say, don’t suppose that it does. But also don’t suppose this poses an actual objection to God’s love. There is no evil you could percieve which you could ever be sure was pointless, especially since the more clearly it appears to be pointless., the more good it might be doing.
“If your deepest desire is to follow the will of God, you will go to heaven no matter how badly you follow on that..” is this accurate? I hope so... but I’m not certain of this statement.
@@Stevenson1776 of course they won't suffer in heaven....lol the whole point of heaven is that there's no suffering. And what a silly comment about atheism...have you ever heard of an atheist suicide bomber?
@@ElrondHubbard_1 Your sentence is incomplete, but "you'd rather never" doesn't make sense if there's nothing next. It's not like non-existence can do things like self-reflection.
Yes I have a problem understanding why God created a world which is a Hell for the animals. And another problem as to why as Christians we do not extend our love to animals by not eating them , thereby not contributing to the horrors of factory farming and the slaughterhouse.
In the modern world with factory farming there's no virtuous eating. You eat avocado? Great, you're "contributing" to slave-like labor in South America, leading innocent humans to an early grave. Soy? Same, but in Asia. If anything, eating meat can in some cases be less brutal to life, though it is certainly still problematic. In any case, unless you personally grow all your fruits, we're all contributing to the horrors of industrial food production.
Second Maccabees, offerings and prayers of atonement for the sins of the dead. Matthew 5 to pay the last penny that is owed. First Corinthians where each man's work is revealed by fire, if it survives he receives a reward, if it is burned up he suffers, but he is still saved.
I always see it as being implied in the bible. Also heaven is a place free of sin. We all sin so we must be purified before entering heaven. Fully reject sin so that our soul no longer desires it.
There is no clear answer as to why animals suffer??? Unfortunately, and despite good intentions, some apologists seem to come across like Voltaire's Pangloss or the companions of Job, whom Job rightly criticized--- "Will ye speak wickedly for God? and talk deceitfully for him? Will ye accept his person? will ye contend for God?" (13:7) False or sugar-coated theodicies only feed the atheistic delusion and provide an entrepôt for God-haters seeking the destruction of souls. As useful as some Thomistic lines of thought may be, , the complexities of Aquinas are apt to be misperceived by popular culture, to the effect, "Why not say (as some slanderously claim that we say) 'Let us do evil that good may result?" (Romans 3:8). For the non-believer the problem of evil is not an academic issue. Their encounter with evil, whether in scripture, or current events, or personal experience is a source of deep-seated doubt which may, ironically, animate their conscience against truth. This is, after all, the reasoning for the phrase "the problem" of evil for it is indeed an insurmountable "problem" of conscience for many. Aquinas and others may offer some insight, but "miserable comforters are ye all" (Job 16:2) is the reply to such theodicies most often heard, if social media is any indication of popular sentiment. In a treatise on the problem of evil, one must as the saying goes call a spade a spade, "even very dark, and no brightness in it" (Amos 5:20). Human history is a horror story. All evil is gratuitous, or it is not evil in the strict sense, as Aquinas notes. If it is not pointless, cruel, vindictive, and without meaning then it would not be evil. Evil deprives, consumes, and destroys and provides no rational conclusion. Evil admits of no exit except to heap-up or hollow-out additional evil. Mankind chose, and with each moment of a violated conscience continues to choose, to "know" evil. This is an intimate and experiential knowledge, as in Adam "knew" his wife and bore children. It is immersive, taught in real time, is as unforgiving as mathematics, and is as pointless as childhood leukemia. A recovered drug addict might acknowledge as much, for the knowledge of evil is a lesson better left unlearned. This is the lesson from which Man is still reeling, the epigraph of his assigned textbook the Bible, and the horror of history culminating in the Cross of Christ. Indeed, it is the miracle of the triune God alone that He can call a universe into being from nothing, command light to shine in the darkness, and transform death into life, but the goodness of God does not, has never, and will never require evil.
What you said is very good indeed friend, thinking about human traficking these days and the realistic implications it brings truly makes me feel helpless, reading Job and how the Bible actually addresses the problem brings me comfort, but I still feel somewhat deeply anguished that someone right now does not share the same freedom as I have and is being physically abused in ways I don't even wish to think about.
It's pretty weird, in my opinion, to assume a good argument against athiesm would de facto be a good argument for Christianity. I'm pretty certain too that no one here will agree.
Most atheists don't deny the existence of god, rather they believe insufficient evidence exists to justify belief. Religious people selfishly and sanctimoniously persing their own personal salvation are an unedifying and unconvincing spectacle.The problem of evil is not evidence either way.
@@TruePT yes that is true but did God have to? That is the question that needs asking. Yes God can bring good out of evil but can't he also bring good out of good? Isn't it more holy and beautiful for good to come from good and not from suffering? I respect what you sayin but just personally for me this kind of talk is too dualistic to be true. It sounds like you're saying that there are two conditions for the good life. God and suffering but that is just false view. You need one thing and one thing only and that God who is love IMO.
@@haidersalam2406 Suffering is always gonna be here, and we won’t always be able to deal with it by just believing in God. We have to carry our cross, just like Jesus. And for me it’s actually more beautiful for God to bring good out of evil.
So it seems like Dr. Kreeft has two main responses to the problem of evil. 1. God would rather see us suffer than have pride and 2. God is good so we need these sufferings. This isn't a terribly compelling answer since it implies that being dead is better than being prideful. If so, why create humans knowing they'll be prideful if pride is worse than existence?
I think there’s more to it in his response, but if I were to respond to your question, I think it’s because our earthly life isn’t the ultimate goal : it’s Heaven, i.e. everlasting life with God and His saints.
@@Win5ton67 So to be clear, the answer to the problem of evil is that it all doesn't really matter because our earthly life is so insignificant? That seems very strange since suffering on earth is real and yet it seems like the response is that God just doesn't care because it's heaven that's important.
@@tomandrews1429 I was answering more specifically to the question : "Why create humans knowing they'll be prideful if pride is worse than existence?" As for the problem of evil in general, the classical answer is that if evil exists, then God exists necessarily. It's not the other way around. To put it briefly, the mere reality of evil supposes the existence of an ultimate good. That's precisely why the lack of goodness in a think (evil) is even intelligible to us. But this is confronting the problem of evil more on the metaphysical side of things than of the moral one. I'd say first and foremost that suffering is a mystery, and there's full an answer to give here on earth. All we know is that it's for a reason and that God is precisely He who create a greater good out of the evil He permits. One could also have a look at the Old Testament story of Job, but one should meditate and contemplate, more than anything else, the suffering and the sacrifice of Christ, the Son of God, on the Cross out of love for each one of us. In short took all of our suffering and our faults on Himself, and did so in order to save us.
@@Win5ton67 A few questions based on your response: "All we know is that it's for a reason and that God is precisely He who create a greater good out of the evil He permits." I'd first like to stop using the word evil, and just substitute it with suffering. 1. How do you know that God always creates a greater good out of suffering? For example, if some poor child dies of starvation and nobody knows or cares, what is the greater good that can come out of that? 2. How do you know that greater good couldn't be achieved without the suffering? 3. If you can't be sure about why God allows suffering, how can you be sure that God is the ultimate good? Is it possible that the reasons for the suffering would prove God to not be good?
Isaiah 45:7 KJV clearly states: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." GOD MAKES EVIL! It's in the bible. Christians need to STOP arguing that God is GOOD. That is BLASPHEMOUS NONSENSE!
"if your deepest desire is to follow the will of God, then you'll go to heaven no matter how badly you follow it"....ok then so parents who try to beat the devil out of their kids, suicide bombers, anyone who has a "bad" interpretation of their holy book and acts on it will go to heaven....but a kind, caring person who doesn't believe in God will be punished for eternity......good to know.
Very funny...you are complaining that a kind, caring person who doesn't believe in God will go to hell is UNFAIR and UNJUST....Yet the whole Atheist SYSTEM itself is unfair...Because according to you people...Good and loving people who die will just disappear like a Garbage in the universe...There is no heaven and hell.... 😁😁😁😁
@@nakkadu i don't believe in that garbage.... I believe in Justice and the Justice of God is my STANDARD....if you have no Standard of right and wrong, then Don't complain about Injustice..... Your Atheistic system compels you to believe in ultimate Injustice.... 🙄
@@nakkadu if you have a Standard, then you got no choice , but to believe in PERFECT Justice and PERFECT righteousness, which are all Attributes of God... You don't buy a Twisted Meter stick if you want a Straight line.... You buy a PERFECT straight Meter Stick, to make a Straight line...
Like Jesus, this old man uses the word 'heart' as if the heart is meant to convey emotion. When in fact a hearts sole purpose is to pumps blood throughout the body via the circulatory system, supplying oxygen and nutrients to the tissues and removing carbon dioxide and other wastes
"If your deepest desire is to follow the will of God, then you'll go to heaven no matter how badly you follow it" Yikes. Good job casually hand-waving away the personal responsibility as well as the suffering caused by those who were abusing others in the name of their god.
The best way to measure your own pride is to ask God to let you know when you are prideful and for Him to give you a humble heart. Be ready though because some of it will be tough. The result will be a true estimation of yourself in the eyes of God.
You have to agree with Dr Kreeft. He summed it up beautifully. Last weeks gospel reading was ask, seek, knock. Our priest told us not to be disappointed if our answer isn't revealed in prayer right away because it is God who is persistent in that reading, not us. Sometimes the story has to unfold a bit longer before the answer is revealed.
That's a good point. Love your name, by the way.
Awesome
What do you think of Peter Kreeft's response to the problem of evil?
It has to be completed: needed to deserve heaven.
@@berengerberenger6234 Are you saying that the only people who can be in heaven are those who deserve it?
@@ironymatt none of us deserve heaven
@@Jess_ica2927 This I know. That's why I asked the question of @Berenger Berenger, since his comment appears to state such.
I honestly didn't hear much of a response, most of the video was about other topics.
Peter Kreeft in a powder blue suit 😍 I always say he is Thomas Aquinas and Mr. Rogers rolled into one. 👔👞📿
I thank God that I was raised partially in a Baptist church where the preacher was very clear that all sin, even the smallest lie, deserves eternal damnation. I suspect it’s because of that I never once took the so called “Problem of Evil” seriously. What could possibly happen to us that would not be better than we deserve?
But I understand people who take pride in thier misery, who need to feel persecuted, and who distain all tradition, need a different answer. I have stumbled on one they might bear. It is this, we concede I assume that a life devoid of suffering would be worse than one with some suffering, yes? I could not stand a paradise with no conflict or struggle, no pain and no sacrifice. What sort of life would that be? Certainly not the one God is preparing us for. It will be more than this life but not less. There will be no struggle between good and evil perhaps but there are struggles between greater and lesser goods. There is beauty in rivalry that brings out the best in us. And in suffering for those who bear it nobly. Indeed human life seems a parody of itself without sone suffering. We grant that and we grant that free will inevitably will result in sone suffering. But there is too much sone say. To this I reply, what sort of suffering seems just right? If you think it’s the right kind of suffering, is it really suffering? If it seems like there might always be a point, would you not then find a part of yourself missing? Would it really be possible to hate evil as one is supposed to if we always knew it would or even could come to good? Is life not enriched by seemingly pointless suffering? I think it is. What else would people complain about? What else could drive them to thirst after righteousness? Seemingly pointless suffering, especially when it is someone else’s suffering can be an extremely beneficial thing for a man. Therefore, if we acknowledge that suffering can be for good and only seem evil, then we ought to acknowledge that this good would not be so complete and perfect if the meaning of suffering was always clear. It would defeat the purpose entirely. Therefore it is because the suffering is meaningful that it feels meaningless.
But, you may say, if we cannot knw whether the evil has a point or not, why should we suppose it does? To that I say, don’t suppose that it does. But also don’t suppose this poses an actual objection to God’s love. There is no evil you could percieve which you could ever be sure was pointless, especially since the more clearly it appears to be pointless., the more good it might be doing.
“If your deepest desire is to follow the will of God, you will go to heaven no matter how badly you follow on that..” is this accurate? I hope so... but I’m not certain of this statement.
But be careful how you define 'desire', as PK says. It doesn't just mean 'want'.
According to that suicide bombers go to heaven then.
@@Stevenson1776 of course they won't suffer in heaven....lol the whole point of heaven is that there's no suffering. And what a silly comment about atheism...have you ever heard of an atheist suicide bomber?
3:26 What's really hard is when you do think about yourself and then start to compare yourself to them.
I the more I watch Dr Peter Jeremy's he reminds me of JP11!!!!...God bless you -love watching you from New Zealand 🤗
Helpful Discussion, Thank You.
Then the Benedictines would say work in itself can be a prayer
Being honest, there was much talk and no answer. Maybe you will only discover after death, but if life finishes here then everything is very unfair.
If there's nothing next, you'd rather never have been?
@@ElrondHubbard_1 Your sentence is incomplete, but "you'd rather never" doesn't make sense if there's nothing next. It's not like non-existence can do things like self-reflection.
Thanks much for this video.
I too always saw cats as girls and dogs as boys when I was young. I thought I was the only one!!! 😃😃😃
Thank goodness Tasmania is back on the wall
Yes I have a problem understanding why God created a world which is a Hell for the animals. And another problem as to why as Christians we do not extend our love to animals by not eating them , thereby not contributing to the horrors of factory farming and the slaughterhouse.
In the modern world with factory farming there's no virtuous eating.
You eat avocado? Great, you're "contributing" to slave-like labor in South America, leading innocent humans to an early grave. Soy? Same, but in Asia.
If anything, eating meat can in some cases be less brutal to life, though it is certainly still problematic.
In any case, unless you personally grow all your fruits, we're all contributing to the horrors of industrial food production.
Where do Scriptures speak of Purgatory? Granted they don't detail Heaven all that much, but did I miss something?
Second Maccabees, offerings and prayers of atonement for the sins of the dead. Matthew 5 to pay the last penny that is owed. First Corinthians where each man's work is revealed by fire, if it survives he receives a reward, if it is burned up he suffers, but he is still saved.
@@willhoie4550
1 Corinthians, what verse? Didn't see anything in Matthew 5 either. Can you be more specific? Thanks.
I always see it as being implied in the bible. Also heaven is a place free of sin. We all sin so we must be purified before entering heaven. Fully reject sin so that our soul no longer desires it.
Really the best!
Wow... opening the reality of Man today.
There is no clear answer as to why animals suffer???
Unfortunately, and despite good intentions, some apologists seem to come across like Voltaire's Pangloss or the companions of Job, whom Job rightly criticized--- "Will ye speak wickedly for God? and talk deceitfully for him? Will ye accept his person? will ye contend for God?" (13:7) False or sugar-coated theodicies only feed the atheistic delusion and provide an entrepôt for God-haters seeking the destruction of souls. As useful as some Thomistic lines of thought may be, , the complexities of Aquinas are apt to be misperceived by popular culture, to the effect, "Why not say (as some slanderously claim that we say) 'Let us do evil that good may result?" (Romans 3:8). For the non-believer the problem of evil is not an academic issue. Their encounter with evil, whether in scripture, or current events, or personal experience is a source of deep-seated doubt which may, ironically, animate their conscience against truth. This is, after all, the reasoning for the phrase "the problem" of evil for it is indeed an insurmountable "problem" of conscience for many. Aquinas and others may offer some insight, but "miserable comforters are ye all" (Job 16:2) is the reply to such theodicies most often heard, if social media is any indication of popular sentiment. In a treatise on the problem of evil, one must as the saying goes call a spade a spade, "even very dark, and no brightness in it" (Amos 5:20). Human history is a horror story. All evil is gratuitous, or it is not evil in the strict sense, as Aquinas notes. If it is not pointless, cruel, vindictive, and without meaning then it would not be evil. Evil deprives, consumes, and destroys and provides no rational conclusion. Evil admits of no exit except to heap-up or hollow-out additional evil. Mankind chose, and with each moment of a violated conscience continues to choose, to "know" evil. This is an intimate and experiential knowledge, as in Adam "knew" his wife and bore children. It is immersive, taught in real time, is as unforgiving as mathematics, and is as pointless as childhood leukemia. A recovered drug addict might acknowledge as much, for the knowledge of evil is a lesson better left unlearned. This is the lesson from which Man is still reeling, the epigraph of his assigned textbook the Bible, and the horror of history culminating in the Cross of Christ. Indeed, it is the miracle of the triune God alone that He can call a universe into being from nothing, command light to shine in the darkness, and transform death into life, but the goodness of God does not, has never, and will never require evil.
What you said is very good indeed friend, thinking about human traficking these days and the realistic implications it brings truly makes me feel helpless, reading Job and how the Bible actually addresses the problem brings me comfort, but I still feel somewhat deeply anguished that someone right now does not share the same freedom as I have and is being physically abused in ways I don't even wish to think about.
It's pretty weird, in my opinion, to assume a good argument against athiesm would de facto be a good argument for Christianity. I'm pretty certain too that no one here will agree.
How can the death of one person be like the sky, spread over everything. Cs lewis, @5:03
By saying that we need the suffering, aren’t you saying that starving children need to starve?
Apparently it's for their own good.
Oops, I mean Dr Peter Kreeft!
When I was a kid I thought the Ec Cum Spirit was 220 years old.
God is a *MONSTER* if there are NO Animals in Heaven. Animals are *INNOCENT* 😇 from any SIN, yet they SUFFER anyway.
Most atheists don't deny the existence of god, rather they believe insufficient evidence exists to justify belief.
Religious people selfishly and sanctimoniously persing their own personal salvation are an unedifying and unconvincing spectacle.The problem of evil is not evidence either way.
“If God is a loving God, all the sufferings we get, we need”. Sounds like Stockholm Syndrome. Humans have an amazing ability to rationalize.
It’s more like God bringing good out of evil. Kinda like the Crucifixion.
@@TruePT Wow!!! Perfectly put!!!! GOLD REFINED IN THE FIRE!!! God bless you❤✌
@@TruePT yes that is true but did God have to? That is the question that needs asking. Yes God can bring good out of evil but can't he also bring good out of good? Isn't it more holy and beautiful for good to come from good and not from suffering? I respect what you sayin but just personally for me this kind of talk is too dualistic to be true. It sounds like you're saying that there are two conditions for the good life. God and suffering but that is just false view. You need one thing and one thing only and that God who is love IMO.
@@haidersalam2406 Suffering is always gonna be here, and we won’t always be able to deal with it by just believing in God. We have to carry our cross, just like Jesus. And for me it’s actually more beautiful for God to bring good out of evil.
@@TruePT "Suffering is always gonna be here"
Thanks to God's design. How "loving" he is.
So it seems like Dr. Kreeft has two main responses to the problem of evil. 1. God would rather see us suffer than have pride and 2. God is good so we need these sufferings. This isn't a terribly compelling answer since it implies that being dead is better than being prideful. If so, why create humans knowing they'll be prideful if pride is worse than existence?
" is it better being dead than being prideful? " beautifully well placed!
I think there’s more to it in his response, but if I were to respond to your question, I think it’s because our earthly life isn’t the ultimate goal : it’s Heaven, i.e. everlasting life with God and His saints.
@@Win5ton67 So to be clear, the answer to the problem of evil is that it all doesn't really matter because our earthly life is so insignificant? That seems very strange since suffering on earth is real and yet it seems like the response is that God just doesn't care because it's heaven that's important.
@@tomandrews1429 I was answering more specifically to the question : "Why create humans knowing they'll be prideful if pride is worse than existence?"
As for the problem of evil in general, the classical answer is that if evil exists, then God exists necessarily. It's not the other way around. To put it briefly, the mere reality of evil supposes the existence of an ultimate good. That's precisely why the lack of goodness in a think (evil) is even intelligible to us. But this is confronting the problem of evil more on the metaphysical side of things than of the moral one. I'd say first and foremost that suffering is a mystery, and there's full an answer to give here on earth. All we know is that it's for a reason and that God is precisely He who create a greater good out of the evil He permits. One could also have a look at the Old Testament story of Job, but one should meditate and contemplate, more than anything else, the suffering and the sacrifice of Christ, the Son of God, on the Cross out of love for each one of us. In short took all of our suffering and our faults on Himself, and did so in order to save us.
@@Win5ton67 A few questions based on your response:
"All we know is that it's for a reason and that God is precisely He who create a greater good out of the evil He permits."
I'd first like to stop using the word evil, and just substitute it with suffering.
1. How do you know that God always creates a greater good out of suffering? For example, if some poor child dies of starvation and nobody knows or cares, what is the greater good that can come out of that?
2. How do you know that greater good couldn't be achieved without the suffering?
3. If you can't be sure about why God allows suffering, how can you be sure that God is the ultimate good? Is it possible that the reasons for the suffering would prove God to not be good?
Isaiah 45:7 KJV clearly states:
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." GOD MAKES EVIL! It's in the bible. Christians need to STOP arguing that God is GOOD. That is BLASPHEMOUS NONSENSE!
re animal suffering. Wise people I have read all say there are no dogs and cats in heaven. I hope they are wrong.
They are wrong, TRUST ME ON THAT ONE!
"if your deepest desire is to follow the will of God, then you'll go to heaven no matter how badly you follow it"....ok then so parents who try to beat the devil out of their kids, suicide bombers, anyone who has a "bad" interpretation of their holy book and acts on it will go to heaven....but a kind, caring person who doesn't believe in God will be punished for eternity......good to know.
Very funny...you are complaining that a kind, caring person who doesn't believe in God will go to hell is UNFAIR and UNJUST....Yet the whole Atheist SYSTEM itself is unfair...Because according to you people...Good and loving people who die will just disappear like a Garbage in the universe...There is no heaven and hell.... 😁😁😁😁
@@pinoysarisari7374 correct....one life, one chance, embrace it
@@nakkadu i don't believe in that garbage.... I believe in Justice and the Justice of God is my STANDARD....if you have no Standard of right and wrong, then Don't complain about Injustice.....
Your Atheistic system compels you to believe in ultimate Injustice.... 🙄
@@pinoysarisari7374 I do have a standard of right and wrong stop making stuff up.
@@nakkadu if you have a Standard, then you got no choice , but to believe in PERFECT Justice and PERFECT righteousness, which are all Attributes of God...
You don't buy a Twisted Meter stick if you want a Straight line....
You buy a PERFECT straight Meter Stick, to make a Straight line...
Like Jesus, this old man uses the word 'heart' as if the heart is meant to convey emotion. When in fact a hearts sole purpose is to pumps blood throughout the body via the circulatory system, supplying oxygen and nutrients to the tissues and removing carbon dioxide and other wastes
You must be fun at parties
It’s not meant to be taken literally.
"If your deepest desire is to follow the will of God, then you'll go to heaven no matter how badly you follow it"
Yikes. Good job casually hand-waving away the personal responsibility as well as the suffering caused by those who were abusing others in the name of their god.