Stranded Again!? How Much More Range Can Tires Give You on an EV?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 22 июл 2022
- ( www.alltfl.com/ ) Check out our new spot to find ALL our content, from news to videos and our podcasts!
Tommy and Max embark on another range test in the Mini Cooper SE, this time with its stock summer tires! Will they make it without a rescue?
( / tflcar ) Visit our Patreon page to support the TFL team!
Watch more videos from TFL Studios:
The Fast Lane Truck ( / tfltruck )
The Fast Lane Car ( / tflcar )
TFLoffroad ( / tfloffroad )
TFLbike ( / @tflbike )
TFLnow ( / tflnow )
TFLclassics ( / tflclassics )
TFLtalk ( / tfltalk )
TFL Podcasts:
TFL Talkin' Cars Podcast ( anchor.fm/tfltalk-podcast )
TFL Talkin' Trucks Podcast ( tfltruck.libsyn.com/ )
#MINI #CooperSE #Range 
Авто/Мото
I totally got schooled on EV tire choice from a Motor Trend article “Mistakes to avoid when shopping for new EV tires” where the technical director for Michelin NA explained rolling resistance vs wear vs traction. EV’s need a solid carcass and a soft rubber to minimize deformation under the weight and torque but soft enough contact patch for grip. It’s the deformation that kills range.
This test aligns with what we've seen with our car. My wife and I have a 2017 Chevy Bolt with 76K miles on it. The OEM tires were Michelin Energy Saver A/S which were not only run flats but also had flat repair technology built in. But the primary reason they are were chosen was their superior range. And we usually saw that range when we first got the car. However, we began to notice that while the tires were decent in dry conditions, they were only fair in wet weather and as the tires got to the end of their life, they were downright dangerous. I nearly hydroplaned into oncoming traffic with them. So when we went to look for new tires at 40K miles, the Michelin Cross Climate 2s were a new tire then and although they weren't rated as an low rolling resistance tire, they were supposed to be a much better wet weather tire. We live in Tennessee where snow isn't as much of a problem but we do get it from time to time. We're now are 36K miles into these tires and the verdict is that the Cross Climate 2s are FAR better in the wet than the Energy Savers, which makes the car feel a lot safer in the rain. But what was the effect on range? When we got the Cross Climates, we were well into the life of the battery but now all Bolt owners are getting new batteries via the recall. When that happened, the car's computer reset the range to the expected 258 miles, but over the next two weeks, it realigned itself toward its range with the Cross Climate 2 to be about 233 miles, or a 9% difference. That's certainly livable for extra peace of mind and handling, especially in a car with a much larger battery than your Mini.
Impressive!
Michelin Energy Savers on the Bolt are not run flat. Self repairable, yes, but not run flat.
@@tommckinney1489 True. The self-repairing feature makes them run-flat-ish but that's not hard sidewalls that would run at 0 psi.
But you ran out of life of those tires for wet weather less tread... ?????
@@QuietStormX The OEM Michelin Energy Saves A/S tires were only fair in the wet when new. By the time the tires were worn, they were pretty awful and kinda unsafe. And I replace my tires when I'm supposed to. The Cross Climate 2s are far better in the wet (and snow!) but you give up about 9% of range, which we thought was a good tradeoff.
This lines right up with our Chevy Bolt. About a 10% reduction in range with the CrossClimate2 vs the stock eco tires.
BUT, the increased grip of the CrossClimate2 In all conditions, ESPECIALLY dry, can’t be ignored. It could truly be the difference between a near miss and a serious accident. I’ll take the extra grip over 25 miles of range every time.
I ran Bridgestone Ecopia tires on my gen 1 leaf and now my 2012 Rav4 Electric (38 PSI). Best low rolling resistance tire in my opinion.
I had a set of Michelin energy and got truely amazing range over the ecopia that I now have.
One very big drawback with the Michelin energy tyres, they are truely frightening in wet weather, with bugger all grip in the wet.
I had Michelin Energy tires on my Ford Focus electric. Good tire also.
Interesting test 👍 I'm on Hankook tyres here in the UK and can rely on 120 British miles through the milder months. There is even a UK RUclipsr who hyper miled to 170.
The compromise with the CrossClimate is good wet (rain, not snow) traction at the expense of rolling resistance. There are dedicated winter tires with very low rolling resistance, but wet braking is dicey
Thank you for proving that not modifying your car is the best way to use your car. My confirmation bais is approved. 👍 Good video TFL.
On a side note: those cross climates are a very good tire. When I need new winter tyres I might try them next.
Circumference math is funny, especially with tires. A new set of ALL-Weathers may have an extra 2/16ths of tread over a mostly used tire. Sounds like nothing . . . but the math comes out to just about 1% difference. 3/16 would difference would still give you a legal tire, but closer to 1.5%. A minute difference in the wheel could have accounted for the remqinder of the 2 miles difference.
Unsprung weight will get you too.
@@That-Guy_ excellent point. The boys should weigh the tyre and wheels just for fun.
Would a good compromise be to use the all terrain tires with the aerodynamic wheels?
Tire rubber mixture compounds is another factor key element.. Why is a new thing for A'muricans to understand such things since are already proved in various motorsport disciplines that have a racing calendar for full year like F1/WRC-Rally that face different climatic & weather changes.. Summer tires are best to get on hot period for grip on dry road surface because rubber mixture is specially developed & tested in hot temperatures, all-seasons can handle better in changing wet/slush slippery conditions and winter tires well for sand & mud or snow & ice mostly tested rubber mixtures to withstand in colder temperatures.. tires for EV's are no exception from these basic rules, must be swapped & replaced according to factory vehicle homologation specs and accordingly to climate changes and weather conditions.. So i give a short example how is the law in Europe since is the owner obligation to equip it's vehicle accordingly to climate changes.. if you have winter tires fitted on the car in summer time and while d riving get involved into an accident the fault is fully yours since you driven with a wrong equipped vehicle not just get a big ticket also must pay repairs for the other things damaged in that accident people property fences, other vehicle or if you hit a person that get to hospital, that person hospitalization costs for entire period it stay in hospital will be payed from your salary etc.. if is winter and you still not fit your car properly with winter tires but you drive as it is and also make accident, when police arrive on the spot is again your full fault & same things will apply..
some tyres arent available in some sizes.
@@petelattimer6808 👍
Exactly. It'd be a good idea to weigh the stock setup and the all season setup, weight of tire/wheel might be more than compound or tread pattern
Rolling resistance
Wow, excellent video guys. Great comparison. I would not have really believed there was that much added resistance to the all-weather tires.
Since you put the cross climates on I've been hoping for a test like this. I just wish you had used matching wheels. If someone is choosing all weather vs dedicated snow tires they are likely doing it so they don't have to keep a second set of wheels. Now I'm left wonderfully what difference the aero wheels make vs the tires themselves.
I was able to do 219 Wh/mi for 220 miles with an average speed of 60 mph in my 2022 Tesla Model 3 Performance with the 20” UberHeavy wheels and Pirelli PZ4 summer tires. Pretty incredible to that efficiency from a car with this much power.
Very interesting. I always thought it was a performance based summer tire. I will think about that the next time I have to replace them. I will look for a low rolling resistance summer tire. Thanks for the sharing the information of your experiments.
Impressive to see the boost in range just by using the stock wheel and tire combo.
The stock Eco tires on my E-Kona were unsafe in all conditions, because traction was completely inadequate. Even in eco mode the care would break traction, and any hard braking could overwhelm the ABS and skid the car even on dry roads. Had I kept the car, I would have replaced the tires with a decent all season tire.
I love Mini Coopers, but those standard wheels that come with the SE are ugly.
super ugly. They need a symmetrical aero wheel that looks dope not dopey.
tires suck too
Super high efficiency tires come at a cost however minimal or substantial.
As a rule they don't grip as well in corners and perform slightly less well in slick conditions.
Something to think about.
The SE has weak range but when I had the Bolt I changed from its stock tires to the Nokian WR G4 for better wet and winter traction. Well worth the approx 20-24 miles of range reduction that I noticed but again, it has enough range to make that trade off.
I went from 4.1miles/kwh on the stock tires to 3.8 on CrossClimate 2s. Not a scientific assessment but anyways I don't really mind sacrificing some for the harsh weather performance.
That's hardly a sacrifice at all. I've been trying to figure out what to put on my EV6 for the winter (Central Oregon).
I put Michelin on my Prius Prime and I love how it grips the road.
What's the weight difference between these two setups? I'm curious how much of a difference weight makes versus aero.
When the stock 215/50x17 michelin energy saver tires die on the Bolt euv (which I'm told doesn't take long), I plan to put on 205/65x15" bridgestone ecopia ep422+ tires, as wheels from a cruze, sonic, and buick encore fit the bolt, I want try a lighter whee/tire combo, and the ecopias worked very well on my Prius.
205/65x15" tires match the diameter of the stock size, and 205/60x16s are 0.2" taller.
Does the manual tell you if you can flat tow that car? that would be decent for a run around and tow behind a RV or bus.
That is a significant variation! I think it shows that we need low rolling resistance winter and all weather tires for EV's.
You guys have driven a lot of EV’s. How much does range drop on a cold, Boulder winter day (or night)? Thanks for the video!
15 to 25 percent
Seems like there's a few big variables that come in to play. Initial temperature of car (ie garage kept, ran recently, or has it been left off all night in the dead of cold and it has to burn energy bringing the battery up to temp), heating technology (double pane glass, heat pump vs resistive, large glass roof, etc), and surface (rain or snow on the ground independent of actual temperature adds a lot of rolling resistance).
I have seen the range on my 2018 LEAF (no battery management system) drop by half on a very cold day. I have a 75 mile round trip to my parents-in-law on a highway with a steep grade at the end. I should have had no problem with a leaf with a 150 mile range, but the car went into energy saving mode on the steep grade ont he way back and I made it home with only a few percent battery left.
I love the look of those factory wheels
It would be awesome if you test different kinds of all terrain tires or any offroad worthy tires on EVs. We do have a lifted Model 3 which used to have BFG Trailterrain but the range got a significant hit. Currently, we've moved on to the Yoko G015 which is a lot better (I mean, range-wise) than BFG Trailterrain. Most other tire reviewers only focused on road noise, traction, or design but it was extremely hard to find a reviewer focusing on the rolling resistance of the tires.
I saw a similar range drop on my Cooper SE switching to Continental all seasons. Unfortunately the change in handling was really the worst part though. How did handling change for yours?
The best that I've tried is Michelin energy, fantastic range in the dry but they were unsafe in the wet. I changed them to Bridgestone ecopia, which are much better in the wet, I feel safe driving in the wet.
Hello, thanks for review. What about the 16 inch wheels.. does it handle well and give feedback or it needs 17 or even 18 inch low profile tyres? I just ordered mine with classic 16 inch trim not sure if thats okay for sporty hotch hatch or I need to buy a new set. I do not care about the looks. Cheers
Aerodynamic wheels ,width of tread,circumference of the tires and weight difference between the different sets of tires all come into play, would like to see the Michelin tires on the aero wheels with the same test.
Interesting results, but I don't believe it is all due to the tire difference. I am curious if any preconditioning was done or when the battery was last charge in each test, as the BMW system actively engages pack cooling as needed - significantly impacting power consumed on the road. In all tests I have done with my i3 over a single charge, it was difficult to get consistent results even between each charge without changing anything on the car.
are some of these videos restricted by area nowadays? been trying to watch a few of the videos and seem unable to access some of them
I had to replace the OEM Good Years on my 2015 Volt...and....what was in stock and in my budget range...a private label Discount Tire Arizonian Silver all seasons....which knocked about 10 percent off of my EV range....I've read to give the tires some time to break in but I'm a little disappointed that it impacted my EV range.
Love it guys!!!!
I wonder how much the competing rims weigh in comparison to each other…
my winter setup with snow tires war about 4lbs/tire heavier. Rotational weight is probably as big a factor as resistance.
4.7 miles/kWh on the HIGHWAY! BMW is really getting a lot of performance from the i3 drivetrain and battery system!! Amazing
I3 uses motorcycle tires lol
What is the wheel and tire weight difference? should have weighted them.
Can you guys do a completely different/unique ev range test being city driving range test instead of the everyone does it highway range testing . Clearly that would be a multi day exercise but it would be great if we could see the range on a daily driving scenario vs highway only
I did a city driving range test in my EV and it took me 18 days haha. It's actually where an EV has the best efficiency so you can get a true max range. I achieved 5.25mi/kWh which was my best ever. I'd like to see them do a city test as well.
@@TheAdventureAuto It depends on the city. I’ve had three i3’s since 2014 (each battery size). Living and working in San Francisco, my driving is largely on city streets so I should be getting maximum range. However our extreme hills and four-way stops at nearly every block take a big toll. To the point that I routinely see significantly better range on freeways at posted limits.
You all should invest in a lift for your shop next. Do a video on the install/cost too.
What's the weight difference?
How about the thinnest summer tires that you can get , would they increase the range even more.
How easy is it to get those style rims for gasoline vehicles? Would be a nice efficiency bump, I think
You can buy these from a Mini dealer, won't be cheap tho 😂
Now swap tires to see if "aerodynamic" rims do anything... I would bet 90% of this gain was tire, 10% rim. And I am being generous.
U should try same wheels different tire. Something all season like most people would have.
Tommy, can you do a MINI App review and how it compares to the Tesla app?
So, I think you guys said the wheels were the same size? I wonder how true that was. You could have
measured the wheel circumference. Not saying they were different but it would have been interesting.
Yes measure and weigh the tyres to get all the facts project farm style.
@@FrankySilverFace “Is a $150k ev better than a $50k ev? Let’s find out!”
I wonder if the Cross Climate Plus would be different. The tread is not quite as deep.
Now imagine how much more range you'd have if you put on a set of high efficiency all season tires.
The 1st tires on car were off road tires and I think a larger diameter, then 2nd tires were stock. I don't think you'll get better mileage on larger tires not because they're off road cause they're bigger. Compare 35" tires than 37"s slower and takes more to get going.
I went from 30 to 34” tires when I changed trucks. The 34s make outstanding mpg on the interstate, but neighborhood, town, any start-stop sitiation quickly brings it down. From around 22 to 14 mpg difference. The thing weighs 4 tons, so there’s that as well.
The Cross Climate 2 is an “all weather” tire not off-road. They have some of the sticky rubber properties found in winter snow tires but try to balance overall characteristics for year-round use.
So tires can make a big difference, but how about wheels? Wonder what’s better for range, aerodynamic design wheels or lightweight wheels.
I know for track cars you want the lightest wheels you can get to improve handling, braking and acceleration. Wonder if it also improves range on EV’s.
Did anyone catch what the STOCK 🛞 tires model and brand are?
Hankook Ventus S1 Evo 3 205/45/17 my car runs the same ones
Not a fair comparison. What is the starting tread depth of each tire? Different wheels…
Quite a different result.
When the tire was off the car, you should have weighed both and taken a tape measure to measure circumference. I know aerodynamics play a big role, but I don’t know how to measure that. However, a lighter wheel/tire combo should make some difference…right?
Why do evs come with the ugliest wheels for the most part? The Ford Lightning is one exception.
Mostly for aerodynamics. It's an effective and relatively cheap way to increase range.
This is the reason we change wheels for different seasons
We get similar results in our SE with the stock (normal or Victory style) 16" rims and stock tires.
Typically 130-170 miles of range in green mode, the lower number being 95% highway, the latter number being 75% sub highway.
Similar experience with 16" Victory Spoke + stock tires, a great choice for a little extra comfort, mileage, and added buffer around curbs and pot holes. 17" look better, but these are more practical. I get 90-100 miles winter, 140 miles summer all in mid or sport. I like to throw it around and have lots of hills though, not very range friendly but it still does well. Could definitely see green mode and flat routes getting the numbers numbers easily above 150.
Pretty astounding that it beats EPA by >10% AT >60mph. Seems that BMW, like Porsche wants to be SURE their customers get at least the claimed range. Kudos to them, and THANK YOU to you for the update!!
20% mpg reduction with Crossclimates on 2016 Prius...
Why the difference?
Wish you would have put the same size cross climate tire on the same rim to do a correct comparison! The way u did it is not very accurate.
Good test. From what I’ve been seeing, wind has more impact than weight. Since the impact of wind resistance on a vehicle is an inverse square mathematical equation, I’d be interested in seeing a range test with speed variations. This means if you increase your speed by 25% r our resistance increases by 50%. I’d like to see a mileage loop done at 75, 70, 65, and 60 mph to see what impact it’d make on range. Maybe even the dreaded 55
Of course that begs the question, on a car already as good handling and as light as the MINI SE, wouldn't it be prudent to mount the lowest rolling resistance tires possible and really expose the utility of this BEST OF SHOW efficiency machine. According to Edmunds range testing loop, only the Hyundai Ioniq from 2020 (the car not the new bloated SUVs and luxury coupe) was more efficient among all the cars they've tested. It's better than Model 3, Niro, Kona, and Bolt. If the advantage is strictly from the smaller battery weight, then maybe that's telling us that the tremendous bloat we're seeing in the EV industry is it's Achilles Heel. Is the MINI SE being held back even with those sticky, grippy, compliant summer tires?
In order to achieve long range, you need to build much more expensive, and less efficient cars. Given that the double battery size you see in the new round of crossovers (Mach E, EV6, Ioniq 5, ID-4) vs. the MINI SE, the embodied carbon is much higher, thus messing up their low emissions credentials. See the Volvo and Polestar LCAs to see how the embodied carbon in these long range luxury EVs represents half the lifetime emissions of a comparable ICE model even when the EV is run on wind. If we're building EVs to meet the demands of a zero emissions future, large long range EVs (and even this MINI SE) aren't really the solution, as they're nowhere near zero emissions. They just seem that way to buyers.
Not supporting ICE with that statement. But our EVs aren't nearly good enough and they're trending each year towards much higher LCAs, especially with those EV pickups that the EV journalists keep pimping. Total hot mess for climate.
Sure, but how do you find low rolling resistance tires? Go by manufacturer marketing claims? We don't have a standardized rating system like Europe does. Unfortunately we can't use the Euro ratings for information because they have different compound formulations there vs here for the same model tire.
Do this route with your dad and Nathan in the car ....for science.....not trying to be mean.
Now we have to worry about the tires range and mileage on the EVs along with the battery charge % every 150 miles. Not for me. I will stick with my hybrid with 26 mpg in town and 23-24 mpg on highway and tires that will last 60-70k miles and the F150 has lots of power to boot. Thanks for the report though.
It's a choice to worry about those things, I drive my SE every day and never worry about it
It just came to my mind about the difference in air resistance that you have from us in lower altitudes. Air density is half as dense at 18,000 feet. It also varies based on temperature and humidity. Pilots need to calculate density altitude for takeoff distance, part of the V1 and rotate that you sometimes hear, so, any given day the effects of air density will affect performance of the vehicle, which Andre found out with the air diverter on the Lightning. Something to look into and report.
Cute, recharging your car with a Ford lightning. Better plan- heed the multiple warnings of low battery, in the unlikely event you run dead, have AAA tow you to a charger. I've had two EVs for over three and a half years never ran dead probably most EV drivers probably never run dead.
I never run out of battery charge.....
Here's my strategy.... I keep my battery charged through an alternator that is connected to a motor that provides constant power....
It's genius.
You guys should ditch the FAT POSER tires and install some narrow profile ones, the mileage would increase by 20%. Old VW's had the 5.60 -15, much less road resistance for the old 36 hp engine. Little shitters like the Mini don't need wide tires.
Look at how magnificent my best friend tommy is
I was wondering if the ugly wheels most EVs come with made enough difference and I guess they do.
Haven't finished vid and I guess 1-2%
Bring out the real ev, bring out the tesla!
That car would make a great golf cart.
basically when people swap to winter tires theyll be stranded in the freeze because they expected a range and it wont deliver.
Did you watch the video? The car beat the EPA rating on the less efficient tyres, how did it not deliver?
@@drewhender3999 didn't catch those standard tires are only good for summer, or places with zero snow. Those are capable of snow weather and will need to be swapped
@@Matthew-cp2eg Again I don't see your point, even with tyres that are decent in snow the car still beat the EPA range
@@drewhender3999 spelling tires with a Y shows you're not familiar with any snow states. Those are bald tires for snow and ice amd are dangerous
@@Matthew-cp2eg Pointing that out shows you are unaware other parts of the world spell it differently, it's tyres where I'm from. We get plenty of snow some years
The more videos you do on EV's the less I want to buy an EV.
who cares