Thanks for sharing your perspective from the Bible. I also appreciate your humble way of teaching. This is a difficult topic but I found your presentation clear and easy to follow. - Jonathan
Hi, would you consider if their is any merit to the following thoughts in Timothy: Childbearing as Paul says to Timothy, my true child in the faith Tim 1:2, Tit 1:4 and to the church of Galatia 4:19 that Paul is in labor again until Christ is born in them. And that since Jesus sent His apostles out 2 by 2 now that husband's and wives are both true children of God, that a couple is most suited to evaliglize to their neighbors and build up whole families of gentiles into christian families. They can of course preach to Individuals, but to bring in families women connect personally. Like you pointed out the letter is to conduct ourselves in our daily lives in the world as representatives of God's house. Men who are given strong hands are not to fight but to pray and praise God publicly - that is what gets strong men noticed. Beautiful woman are not to use their body for seductive sway, but for respectible service. That is what gets beautiful women noticed. He explained how to worship in Corinthians, like you said in another video. 1 person preaching is okay, Jesus did it. Paul preached unil people fell asleep. However, they both also met with small groups those that were willing to hang around after confusing things were said and He would ask questions and reveal their heart issues. So, it's like in Corinthians when smaller groups come together and speak in an orderly way as God's patient, gentle, humble, wisdom leads. Not many people are doing this today, but that doesn't mean they didn't then. Also, i do think in Corinthians it says women are not supposed to bring their marrigage problems or questions up for the whole church, which is destructive to marrigages and invites gossip into the church. A man was sleeping with his Father's wife and people were speaking pridefully possibly in the church. This did not gloryify her husband, but rendered her husband very exposed. It's a wonder murder did not occur. She had not left the church, but only the son and women might have still been inclined to talk and Paul could been reminding them to guard against being stumbeling blocks agsinst adultery and the talk which ignites more of that being guarded agsinst and importantace of keeping the church worship gathering a clean and godly place for the Spirit of God to work on healing that sin amongst them while individual homes delt with issues more quitely, at least for the smameful speaking not to be brought up during worship.
I think key to the misunderstanding that Gods order in creation means that men now rule over women is flawed. God made both Adam and Eve in His image. After they sinned, Genesis reads 'your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you'. Genesis 3:16 Men being in charge and abusive was part of sin entering. Jesus died to restore Eden, so to speak. Galatians 3, 25, but now that faith has come.... For in Christ you are all (speaking to all believers) SONS of God. Through faith. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female; for you are all ONE in Christ Jesus".
The context is church authority. Not generic men ruling over generic women. God does assign roles, it's modern liberalism and feminism that want to tear down roles and gender and pretend we're all just interchangeable blobs with no real distinctions or purposes. Adam was created first, Eve was created as a helper. She sinned first, being deceived, Adam sinned willingly. He was held responsible. Scripture defines women as a weaker sex, and in some ways they are. If men have the role/responsibility of maintaining God's commands in church leadership, even though they fail, it's still their role. They aren't doing this because God thinks they are "better" (insert modern gender wars theory), but because God is allowed to make mankind in his own image, split between two sexes, and then tell each what they ought to do and how they ought to behave. Women "keeping silent" is not a "role", it's just a respectful posture of behavior in church. The issue is not a gender war, it's not about skills and abilities and comparing who can "learn more" or whether women have capabilities in teaching or leading, because of course they do and of course they can. This isn't a "glass ceiling" that must be broken to stick it to those old patriarchy men! It's taking scripture at its word and doing things as God said to.
I am not convinced by this exposition. It is too neat, and makes it sound as if the meaning and interpretation of 1 Tim 2 is patently and obviously about female magicians, and that everything should therefore be filtered through this lens.Amongst other things it doesn't explain the wider status of women in society. For instance, if woman were "equal" why was their testimony inadmissible in a Jewish court? Why did Jesus not appoint women among the Twelve? Why moreover were no women selected to be deacons in Acts 6? Dr Bartlett only looks at these type of problematic passages out of the corner of his eye, never head on.
The Jewish court was ruled by the Sanhedrin. Who followed the Talmud. The Talmud said hideous things about women. The Talmud is satanic. The Talmud defends pedophilia. And treats women as less than beasts. Jesus appointed 12 disciples because no one would accept the witness of women saith the Talmud. The Talmud said 100 women could not equal one man as witness testimony. Jesus had the 12 men to be his initial witnesses. The disciples who were influenced by the oral Talmud of the Jews didn’t believe the women who declared Jesus resurrection. Also it was appropriate as the men slept out in the open often. God said He would put enmity between the seed of the woman and the seed of Satan . And the Jews of the synagogue of Satan hated women. Phoebe was a deaconess. The male bias of the Bible translators changed deacon to servant only in her case.
Great thoughts! This passage addresses a church in a Roman city, and as such, doesn't really speak to issues like Jewish court proceedings, but specifically, to Ephesus which was highly influenced by the Artemis cult which taught that women didn't need men. (They also argued that women were created before men, believed Artemis never married and that Artemis could help save them during childbirth.) Likewise, Jesus appointing only men and acts 6 are separate issues than this passage and should be addressed separately. Cliff notes version: 12 Disciples: This is an argument from silence. (What scripture doesn't say.) Jesus didn't appoint women among the 12, instead he appointed only men. Specifically, he appointed free, Jewish men. If we are to use the basis of what he *excluded* as a means of determining who can be a leader in the church, then we should also not allow gentiles or slaves to be leaders within the church, as these were also excluded by Jesus. Acts 6: While no women were chosen for these 7 positions, no prohibition is given, either. We do know that both men and women helped choose, though (verse 3a) and that women were later referred to as deacons in other parts of scripture. (Romans 16) So, while men were chosen for these roles, there is no reason to conclude that ALL women are excluded going forward. Jewish court: Much of what Jesus argued with the pharisees about in the Gospels was in regards to extra laws and rabbinic interpretations that he disagreed with. To hold Jewish court as having equal weight with what scripture teaches is to misconflate their judicial system as being entirely correct. Some other questions to consider: Why does Paul never command men to have authority over women? (1 cor 7 is the exception, and the wife is given the same authority over her husband) Why did Jesus commend Mary for sitting at his feet (a traditional position for a rabbi's disciple) with the men, instead of working with the women? Why does Proverbs 31 describe a woman who works, teaches (verse 26) and runs business affairs? Why are there "exceptions" of women leaders/prophets throughout scripture from exodus through acts? (Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Junia) Why does Paul use gender-inclusive Greek pronouns when describing the gifts of teaching (Romans 12, 1 Cor 12)?
Jesus said that we should take heed that no man deceive us. Everyone would do well to not believe the false teachers of this organization. In 1Tim 2:13-14, the Apostle Paul gives the real reasons for forbidding women to teach or have authority over men. And those reasons certainly weren’t the perversions given in this video. He says: 1 Timothy 2:13-14 KJVS [13] For Adam was first formed, then Eve. [14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Paul points us back to GOD’s creation. Which is GOD’s order from the beginning, the man is the head of the woman. The woman (Eve) was able to tell the serpent what GOD said concerning the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, only because the man told her. The woman wasn’t created until after GOD had given the man the commandment. Thus showing GOD’s will, even for us today. Seeing that GOD doesn’t change, neither should we in this matter. At time stamp 14:00 this man says that Paul’s enduring principle is a contradiction because it doesn’t apply to the whole of society. The man in this video totally ignores the fact that GOD’s Word in this passage is being addressed to His people, not the secular world. Additionally, it’s obviously expected that the fallen world would not abide by this enduring principle, seeing that it’s the nature of the world to be in rebellion against GOD. It’s not hard to see the deception being put forth here. Furthermore, Paul points out that the woman was deceived, but the man was not deceived. Being led by one who is prone to being deceived is certainly not wise. And definitely not GOD’s way. In Isaiah 3:12, GOD shows the sad state of His people when women rule over and lead them. *Isaiah 3:12 KJVS [12] As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths. You see, even from the beginning GOD purposes for the man to lead and teach the woman, not the other way around. 1 Corinthians 14:37 KJVS [37] If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. You’ve been warned. Ezekiel 33:7
Umm you are wrong about your interpretation of Isaiah 3:12...so God let a band of infants to mislead Judah and Jerusalem? And God let women rule them? I think you need to go back and read who were the rulers of Judah and Jerusalem at that time and who were their oppressors...to believe at face value that infants oppressed them is silly. It just shows you don't understand the context of what was written down.
@@Xxxquick33xxX You miss the fact that the oppression by children, and the ruling of women is a part of Judah’s prophesied judgment from GOD, because of their disobedience. Just read back from chapter 2. Note: Because of the rejection of GOD’s way, we see the same conditions in this society today. The children oppress, and the women rule.
Hi Rob, I would suggest you understand this text in light of the culture and female cult of Artemis in Ephesus in Paul's day. The subject is not so much women, but false teachings which were being spread. Please research this and be a good Berean.
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All this confirms my own independant research. Than you very much.
Thanks for sharing your perspective from the Bible. I also appreciate your humble way of teaching. This is a difficult topic but I found your presentation clear and easy to follow. - Jonathan
Jesus is Lord of Lords and I thank Him for breaking the curse over humanity from the fall, by dying on the cross for us. ❤
Hi, would you consider if their is any merit to the following thoughts in Timothy:
Childbearing as Paul says to Timothy, my true child in the faith Tim 1:2, Tit 1:4 and to the church of Galatia 4:19 that Paul is in labor again until Christ is born in them.
And that since Jesus sent His apostles out 2 by 2 now that husband's and wives are both true children of God, that a couple is most suited to evaliglize to their neighbors and build up whole families of gentiles into christian families. They can of course preach to Individuals, but to bring in families women connect personally. Like you pointed out the letter is to conduct ourselves in our daily lives in the world as representatives of God's house.
Men who are given strong hands are not to fight but to pray and praise God publicly - that is what gets strong men noticed. Beautiful woman are not to use their body for seductive sway, but for respectible service. That is what gets beautiful women noticed.
He explained how to worship in Corinthians, like you said in another video. 1 person preaching is okay, Jesus did it. Paul preached unil people fell asleep. However, they both also met with small groups those that were willing to hang around after confusing things were said and He would ask questions and reveal their heart issues. So, it's like in Corinthians when smaller groups come together and speak in an orderly way as God's patient, gentle, humble, wisdom leads. Not many people are doing this today, but that doesn't mean they didn't then.
Also, i do think in Corinthians it says women are not supposed to bring their marrigage problems or questions up for the whole church, which is destructive to marrigages and invites gossip into the church. A man was sleeping with his Father's wife and people were speaking pridefully possibly in the church. This did not gloryify her husband, but rendered her husband very exposed. It's a wonder murder did not occur. She had not left the church, but only the son and women might have still been inclined to talk and Paul could been reminding them to guard against being stumbeling blocks agsinst adultery and the talk which ignites more of that being guarded agsinst and importantace of keeping the church worship gathering a clean and godly place for the Spirit of God to work on healing that sin amongst them while individual homes delt with issues more quitely, at least for the smameful speaking not to be brought up during worship.
I think key to the misunderstanding that Gods order in creation means that men now rule over women is flawed. God made both Adam and Eve in His image. After they sinned, Genesis reads 'your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you'. Genesis 3:16
Men being in charge and abusive was part of sin entering. Jesus died to restore Eden, so to speak. Galatians 3, 25, but now that faith has come.... For in Christ you are all (speaking to all believers) SONS of God. Through faith. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female; for you are all ONE in Christ Jesus".
The context is church authority. Not generic men ruling over generic women.
God does assign roles, it's modern liberalism and feminism that want to tear down roles and gender and pretend we're all just interchangeable blobs with no real distinctions or purposes.
Adam was created first, Eve was created as a helper. She sinned first, being deceived, Adam sinned willingly. He was held responsible. Scripture defines women as a weaker sex, and in some ways they are. If men have the role/responsibility of maintaining God's commands in church leadership, even though they fail, it's still their role. They aren't doing this because God thinks they are "better" (insert modern gender wars theory), but because God is allowed to make mankind in his own image, split between two sexes, and then tell each what they ought to do and how they ought to behave.
Women "keeping silent" is not a "role", it's just a respectful posture of behavior in church.
The issue is not a gender war, it's not about skills and abilities and comparing who can "learn more" or whether women have capabilities in teaching or leading, because of course they do and of course they can. This isn't a "glass ceiling" that must be broken to stick it to those old patriarchy men! It's taking scripture at its word and doing things as God said to.
I am not convinced by this exposition. It is too neat, and makes it sound as if the meaning and interpretation of 1 Tim 2 is patently and obviously about female magicians, and that everything should therefore be filtered through this lens.Amongst other things it doesn't explain the wider status of women in society. For instance, if woman were "equal" why was their testimony inadmissible in a Jewish court? Why did Jesus not appoint women among the Twelve? Why moreover were no women selected to be deacons in Acts 6? Dr Bartlett only looks at these type of problematic passages out of the corner of his eye, never head on.
The Jewish court was ruled by the Sanhedrin. Who followed the Talmud. The Talmud said hideous things about women. The Talmud is satanic. The Talmud defends pedophilia. And treats women as less than beasts. Jesus appointed 12 disciples because no one would accept the witness of women saith the Talmud. The Talmud said 100 women could not equal one man as witness testimony. Jesus had the 12 men to be his initial witnesses. The disciples who were influenced by the oral Talmud of the Jews didn’t believe the women who declared Jesus resurrection. Also it was appropriate as the men slept out in the open often. God said He would put enmity between the seed of the woman and the seed of Satan . And the Jews of the synagogue of Satan hated women. Phoebe was a deaconess. The male bias of the Bible translators changed deacon to servant only in her case.
Great thoughts!
This passage addresses a church in a Roman city, and as such, doesn't really speak to issues like Jewish court proceedings, but specifically, to Ephesus which was highly influenced by the Artemis cult which taught that women didn't need men. (They also argued that women were created before men, believed Artemis never married and that Artemis could help save them during childbirth.) Likewise, Jesus appointing only men and acts 6 are separate issues than this passage and should be addressed separately.
Cliff notes version:
12 Disciples:
This is an argument from silence. (What scripture doesn't say.) Jesus didn't appoint women among the 12, instead he appointed only men. Specifically, he appointed free, Jewish men. If we are to use the basis of what he *excluded* as a means of determining who can be a leader in the church, then we should also not allow gentiles or slaves to be leaders within the church, as these were also excluded by Jesus.
Acts 6:
While no women were chosen for these 7 positions, no prohibition is given, either. We do know that both men and women helped choose, though (verse 3a) and that women were later referred to as deacons in other parts of scripture. (Romans 16) So, while men were chosen for these roles, there is no reason to conclude that ALL women are excluded going forward.
Jewish court:
Much of what Jesus argued with the pharisees about in the Gospels was in regards to extra laws and rabbinic interpretations that he disagreed with. To hold Jewish court as having equal weight with what scripture teaches is to misconflate their judicial system as being entirely correct.
Some other questions to consider: Why does Paul never command men to have authority over women? (1 cor 7 is the exception, and the wife is given the same authority over her husband) Why did Jesus commend Mary for sitting at his feet (a traditional position for a rabbi's disciple) with the men, instead of working with the women? Why does Proverbs 31 describe a woman who works, teaches (verse 26) and runs business affairs? Why are there "exceptions" of women leaders/prophets throughout scripture from exodus through acts? (Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Junia) Why does Paul use gender-inclusive Greek pronouns when describing the gifts of teaching (Romans 12, 1 Cor 12)?
Jesus said that we should take heed that no man deceive us.
Everyone would do well to not believe the false teachers of this organization.
In 1Tim 2:13-14, the Apostle Paul gives the real reasons for forbidding women to teach or have authority over men. And those reasons certainly weren’t the perversions given in this video.
He says:
1 Timothy 2:13-14 KJVS
[13] For Adam was first formed, then Eve. [14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Paul points us back to GOD’s creation. Which is GOD’s order from the beginning, the man is the head of the woman. The woman (Eve) was able to tell the serpent what GOD said concerning the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, only because the man told her. The woman wasn’t created until after GOD had given the man the commandment. Thus showing GOD’s will, even for us today. Seeing that GOD doesn’t change, neither should we in this matter.
At time stamp 14:00 this man says that Paul’s enduring principle is a contradiction because it doesn’t apply to the whole of society. The man in this video totally ignores the fact that GOD’s Word in this passage is being addressed to His people, not the secular world. Additionally, it’s obviously expected that the fallen world would not abide by this enduring principle, seeing that it’s the nature of the world to be in rebellion against GOD.
It’s not hard to see the deception being put forth here.
Furthermore, Paul points out that the woman was deceived, but the man was not deceived. Being led by one who is prone to being deceived is certainly not wise. And definitely not GOD’s way.
In Isaiah 3:12, GOD shows the sad state of His people when women rule over and lead them.
*Isaiah 3:12 KJVS
[12] As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.
You see, even from the beginning GOD purposes for the man to lead and teach the woman, not the other way around.
1 Corinthians 14:37 KJVS
[37] If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
You’ve been warned.
Ezekiel 33:7
Umm you are wrong about your interpretation of Isaiah 3:12...so God let a band of infants to mislead Judah and Jerusalem? And God let women rule them? I think you need to go back and read who were the rulers of Judah and Jerusalem at that time and who were their oppressors...to believe at face value that infants oppressed them is silly. It just shows you don't understand the context of what was written down.
@@Xxxquick33xxX
You miss the fact that the oppression by children, and the ruling of women is a part of Judah’s prophesied judgment from GOD, because of their disobedience.
Just read back from chapter 2.
Note: Because of the rejection of GOD’s way, we see the same conditions in this society today.
The children oppress, and the women rule.
@@roblane5699 Yeah! When Deborah was chosen by God, He was so unbiblical!
Hi Rob, I would suggest you understand this text in light of the culture and female cult of Artemis in Ephesus in Paul's day. The subject is not so much women, but false teachings which were being spread. Please research this and be a good Berean.