Hi. I'm a fan of the Idol Es girls over here. One of the girls in the anouncement stream (specificly Lala) said that Meica05 doesn't have to pay for her IP because she was always the owner even when she join the company a couple of months back.
The revenue share for a year is an amicable move. They're already doing that while under Idol, so it won't really change anything. Also, the value of the IP goes way beyond the model itself, since the social media accounts, designs, songs and other content goes with it.
Honestly it'd be nice if thay could become the norm industry wide for when companies and talents part on good terms. I feel like itd be a win for everyone, corporate would get to milk the ip for some final bucks on the way out without needing to provide any support (free money) and the talent keeps all their work. Not like the company is getting much use out of the IP after the talent leaves normally since that's pretty much the biggest taboo in the industry to re-use a model. (Obviously it'd be nice if they could get them for free but that seems rather unreasonable of an ask for a corprate entity, especially considering the investment involved.)
@@Sham_Seer After prism project just giving up the rights since SONY was going to just shut it all down. And IDOL corp doing this for active VTubers IP that are not going to go dormant but were picked up by BRAVE, this is a fair move. This should be industry normal.
I want being able to BUY the IP rights this way to be the standard going forward, Prism just giving it away was RARE and only possible cause SONY did not plan to come back to the project. Many VTUBERS cant afford it right up front, so being able to share for a year works out well those on a budget to share it for a year.
Manager has different meanings in and out of an agency. Agency Manager is in part a supervisor and part a connections person, like getting an invite for VCR ARK. This is assuming they're not some power tripping asshole or negligent. Indie Manager is more an assistant to handle merch/etc
The issue is people don't understand how businesses work. A vtuber is effectively a sales representative. Sales reps build a client base that brings in income to the company but when a rep leaves or gets fired they arent legally allowed to take clients with them. Vtubers are the same thing.
Here's the thing. In case of vtubing, the product that the company sold, is heavily reliant on the sales representative's identity. Not necessarily hinges on the product's inherent value. The client would probably buy even garbage, if its associated with the "sales rep". Vtubing is closer to music industry than manufacturing and retail. You can't just copy paste a logic from somewhere else one to one. It doesn't work like that.
@@antonioscendrategattico2302 it is the case. look at any other entertainer. they have to both sell their tickets and albums as well as make the music. movie and Tv is the same.
@@gurugurumawaru7869 except that it does. look at reality TV. the agency builds the persona for the actor to then sell as themselves and do various marketing to sell their persona. once they quit or get fired they have to rebrand a bit to be different but similar to the previous presona.
and yet most people run after the vtuber, not the company. you still can sell the merch but people notice it when someone else takes the model and uses it.
Meica gained so much fame because of an incident that happened even before she was Meica, before being Meica, she was a Vtuber called Hina Misora on WACTOR, on december she started a "hiatus" (it wasnt a hiatus), so about 4 - 3 months later there was an announcement about her Termination of contract, but WACTOR literaly Doxed her, puting so many personal info, literaly everyone was like: 😐😐😐, even herself, so she becamed Meica arround April 2023, and thats how she gained so much subscribers :)
6:43 that goes for talents who can pay the full price but, given their channel value, i would assume it was not cheap. So leasing out the IP like a rent to own apartment wasnt so bad.
Mini timestamps~ 00:00 Preface 00:44 Rin Penrose's announcement 24:15 Frozen -Horse- Rima _(noticed in __24:56__)_ 29:14 Fuyo Cloverfield's announcement 36:12 Rima Popsicle _(Frozen 2)_ As a watch-y stream I think it's fine to leave it as it is? But I feel I could still expand it. Let me know if you'd like it expanded at least a bit more. Definitely not as expounded as LTT WAN Show's but that's a heckuva different stream than a watch-along kind.
the whole point of "idol only got her like 13k subs" is a bit dishonest, it gave her more than that, connections is the most important, collabs and merch that wouldnt have been possible beforehand are basic examples, others could be expos or sponsors, granted all their help disappears after she leaves, but the connections remain
The revenue share thing reminds me of early Lightmotif(german Vtuber management) which basically paid for models upfront and then the Vtuber owns the moddel at the point when they paid back the initial cost via revenue sharing.
those models alone are likely large 4 digit cost, that's not including everything else included in an IP, such as merchandising rights, music, and social media
The thing Rima missed Is that all of them, except for Meica who owns the IP and only would need to repay the model updates and other works for her stream, all the girls of Idol created there are IP property of Idol and the main value of the company. So when the merge happened, Brave did not buy the agency per se, but the girls IP. For Brave/Idol to allow the girls to give them those IPs by rebuying it, It Is ok and very unexpected but surely I believe the now dead contract of Idol kinda protected the girls IP in a way and Brave, being cool even with that risk of buying "partially nothing", also as good business profesionalism allowed. So It Is a very different Situation than the closing of VTuber agencies by Sony, so very different cases and contexts. Since Brave has just adquired Idol, I see it logical to that year rev cut in the agreedment for the girls to be them who retain the IP after leaving the agency.
Also, and this is just my speculation, I'm guessing the new contract with Brave could mean she could lose the ownership of her IP (not immediately necessarily, tho it could be, but maybe under specific circumstances, i.e: "you f'ed up, now your IP is ours and you get terminated") so yeah, not worth the risk and a good thing is she still can collab with the idol girls
This is gonna be a big hit for idol, The only person remaining I could think of that could keep it from dropping into irrelevancy is lisa. She’s the only one I can think of that has the true idol spirit that will keep peoples attention
@@rafresendenrafresenden.1644 maybe so, but she’s still the biggest one out of anyone in that company right now, anyone who is going to keep that company afloat it’s going to be her
Rin was their biggest player, with her gone idolEn future isn't looking too bright. The girls are good, but they don't carry any of the weight that idolEn first Gen carried.
I can see why many companies don't let you keep the IP. Imagine a talent leaving Holo with the IP and they become some monster who says racist shit or other things. Guess who the IP is tied to? Holo. So they'll get shit for it.
All of first Gen has left IDOL were as gen 2 are now staying along for the ride. I like Rin and Juna but the true favorites are in Gen 2 and the Spanish ones. First Gen besides Rin rarely saw a stream from them this year so I wonder why
Brave purchased idol at a set value based on acts. All acts that wish to stay had to sign a new contract. On debut the spanish girl stated that she retained ownership of her IP and that her and idol had more of a partnership deal.
When you go indie or are an indie you dont have no revnue split the split is just different. You are an independent contractor or an independent sales representative attempting to sell yourself to people. You still have to pay a split to youtube/twitch and your team. Manager/artist/merchandiser. The main thing is you get to decide the groups you work for. The groups being sponsors and collab partners. Keeping in mine for an american content creator to make 50k+ usd annually you need 3m+ views a month which isn't very common for most content creators. Keep in mind you need less views if you are in a country with a weaker currency than america.
It is possible the models worth has inflated due to the value of the channel and IP being much higher, so it’s probably not an equivalent value of getting an indie model.
The revenue share needs more details. Are they required to stream x amount of time for a week over a year or can they just not stream for a year and then they get the IP?
I think the Keeping IP side of things, was a wieght in favour of leaving now, the talents that are leaving are all scouted type talents that have very solo tendancies so the ability to leave with IP was a big plus it would have been interesting to see how they would have been without IP but i think Fuyo, rin and katta would have left anyway. after all im pretty sure the talenbts staying execpt the ones from encore wont be able to take there IP with them when they leave
It makes sense that enya ignis would stay because they joined idol for the corporate support and is still active on PL acount and just joined. Rin will probably succeed very well as an indie.
@@braddl9442that’s what I was thinking? I was really confused when she said she’d prefer to pay up front, considering that would be every asset, the model, the channel itself… etc etc. I don’t know how well off corpo vtubers tend to be, but I’d imagine that most people wouldn’t be able to pay ALL of that upfront as IDOL said lol
For me rins best content is scripted videos, so maybe its a diffference in content creation preference. Either way look forward to her... especially right after the year split is up
honestly i really just think youre reading too far into this. they both seemed to have already wanted out since agency life wasnt right, and it was a great deal to do so since they could keep their ips and followings
Im not saying it wasn’t a good deal for them it definetly was, but we have way too little info to judge that as so many things depends on what the percentage cut is, do they need to stream a minimum amount, can they just take a 6 month hiatus and call it quit, is there a cap on revenue share and other legalities. analyzing those things is what I find interesting
13:00 I'm not a lawyer but wouldnt that depends on her entry contract? if her entry contract transfer all IP rights to Idol it would be the same as any other talents but i dont think she would sign a contract like that.
not anymore! but yes, idol was founded in israel and their first generation (which is now known as Genesis under the idol EN branch) was actually idol HE: Origin
Hi. I'm a fan of the Idol Es girls over here. One of the girls in the anouncement stream (specificly Lala) said that Meica05 doesn't have to pay for her IP because she was always the owner even when she join the company a couple of months back.
Ty for confirming this. We were wondering on that. I’ll pin this
RIn left for the same reason as Aqua did. Corporate life isn't for them anymore. No one need to be blamed or demonized.
The revenue share for a year is an amicable move. They're already doing that while under Idol, so it won't really change anything. Also, the value of the IP goes way beyond the model itself, since the social media accounts, designs, songs and other content goes with it.
Honestly it'd be nice if thay could become the norm industry wide for when companies and talents part on good terms. I feel like itd be a win for everyone, corporate would get to milk the ip for some final bucks on the way out without needing to provide any support (free money) and the talent keeps all their work.
Not like the company is getting much use out of the IP after the talent leaves normally since that's pretty much the biggest taboo in the industry to re-use a model. (Obviously it'd be nice if they could get them for free but that seems rather unreasonable of an ask for a corprate entity, especially considering the investment involved.)
When you consider the cost of an IP, its a good deal actually.
@@Sham_Seer After prism project just giving up the rights since SONY was going to just shut it all down. And IDOL corp doing this for active VTubers IP that are not going to go dormant but were picked up by BRAVE, this is a fair move. This should be industry normal.
I absolutely love rin’s showmanship
You mean bin?
@@brandoncolon1160No, it’s 🅱️in.
I want being able to BUY the IP rights this way to be the standard going forward, Prism just giving it away was RARE and only possible cause SONY did not plan to come back to the project. Many VTUBERS cant afford it right up front, so being able to share for a year works out well those on a budget to share it for a year.
Manager has different meanings in and out of an agency.
Agency Manager is in part a supervisor and part a connections person, like getting an invite for VCR ARK. This is assuming they're not some power tripping asshole or negligent.
Indie Manager is more an assistant to handle merch/etc
The issue is people don't understand how businesses work. A vtuber is effectively a sales representative. Sales reps build a client base that brings in income to the company but when a rep leaves or gets fired they arent legally allowed to take clients with them. Vtubers are the same thing.
That's not really the case when the sales rep is also the product.
Here's the thing. In case of vtubing, the product that the company sold, is heavily reliant on the sales representative's identity. Not necessarily hinges on the product's inherent value. The client would probably buy even garbage, if its associated with the "sales rep". Vtubing is closer to music industry than manufacturing and retail.
You can't just copy paste a logic from somewhere else one to one. It doesn't work like that.
@@antonioscendrategattico2302 it is the case. look at any other entertainer. they have to both sell their tickets and albums as well as make the music. movie and Tv is the same.
@@gurugurumawaru7869 except that it does. look at reality TV. the agency builds the persona for the actor to then sell as themselves and do various marketing to sell their persona. once they quit or get fired they have to rebrand a bit to be different but similar to the previous presona.
and yet most people run after the vtuber, not the company.
you still can sell the merch but people notice it when someone else takes the model and uses it.
Meica gained so much fame because of an incident that happened even before she was Meica, before being Meica, she was a Vtuber called Hina Misora on WACTOR, on december she started a "hiatus" (it wasnt a hiatus), so about 4 - 3 months later there was an announcement about her Termination of contract, but WACTOR literaly Doxed her, puting so many personal info, literaly everyone was like: 😐😐😐, even herself, so she becamed Meica arround April 2023, and thats how she gained so much subscribers :)
6:43 that goes for talents who can pay the full price but, given their channel value, i would assume it was not cheap. So leasing out the IP like a rent to own apartment wasnt so bad.
Mini timestamps~
00:00 Preface
00:44 Rin Penrose's announcement
24:15 Frozen -Horse- Rima _(noticed in __24:56__)_
29:14 Fuyo Cloverfield's announcement
36:12 Rima Popsicle _(Frozen 2)_
As a watch-y stream I think it's fine to leave it as it is? But I feel I could still expand it. Let me know if you'd like it expanded at least a bit more. Definitely not as expounded as LTT WAN Show's but that's a heckuva different stream than a watch-along kind.
the whole point of "idol only got her like 13k subs" is a bit dishonest, it gave her more than that, connections is the most important, collabs and merch that wouldnt have been possible beforehand are basic examples, others could be expos or sponsors, granted all their help disappears after she leaves, but the connections remain
The revenue share thing reminds me of early Lightmotif(german Vtuber management) which basically paid for models upfront and then the Vtuber owns the moddel at the point when they paid back the initial cost via revenue sharing.
those models alone are likely large 4 digit cost, that's not including everything else included in an IP, such as merchandising rights, music, and social media
The thing Rima missed Is that all of them, except for Meica who owns the IP and only would need to repay the model updates and other works for her stream, all the girls of Idol created there are IP property of Idol and the main value of the company. So when the merge happened, Brave did not buy the agency per se, but the girls IP. For Brave/Idol to allow the girls to give them those IPs by rebuying it, It Is ok and very unexpected but surely I believe the now dead contract of Idol kinda protected the girls IP in a way and Brave, being cool even with that risk of buying "partially nothing", also as good business profesionalism allowed. So It Is a very different Situation than the closing of VTuber agencies by Sony, so very different cases and contexts. Since Brave has just adquired Idol, I see it logical to that year rev cut in the agreedment for the girls to be them who retain the IP after leaving the agency.
They definitely bought idol it was announced and it came with the managers so its not just the ips
@@RimaEvenstarHighlights yeah but the real value was not only, or mainly, the admin body and logo, but the VTubers
You don't know anything about agencys so stop acting like it I used to own an agency and you know nothing @Deimos4500
To be fair, working for a company helps with stalkers, legal, and youtube issues "typically".
Not really surprised in Meica05 not wanting to get involved with another Japanese company after what happened with the last one (Wactor).
Yea
Also, and this is just my speculation, I'm guessing the new contract with Brave could mean she could lose the ownership of her IP (not immediately necessarily, tho it could be, but maybe under specific circumstances, i.e: "you f'ed up, now your IP is ours and you get terminated") so yeah, not worth the risk and a good thing is she still can collab with the idol girls
@@Lohpezhoh yea
Meica was the biggest talent in WACTOR, then she went on twitch and then joined idol! So her ip before idol was HUGE
¡Brotecitos, a mi!
This is gonna be a big hit for idol, The only person remaining I could think of that could keep it from dropping into irrelevancy is lisa.
She’s the only one I can think of that has the true idol spirit that will keep peoples attention
Lisa is too chill for that to work
@@rafresendenrafresenden.1644 maybe so, but she’s still the biggest one out of anyone in that company right now, anyone who is going to keep that company afloat it’s going to be her
Rin was their biggest player, with her gone idolEn future isn't looking too bright. The girls are good, but they don't carry any of the weight that idolEn first Gen carried.
K-son said Cover offered to sell her avatar for a mill US. So... just throwing that out there.
NO WAYYYY
I can see why many companies don't let you keep the IP. Imagine a talent leaving Holo with the IP and they become some monster who says racist shit or other things. Guess who the IP is tied to? Holo. So they'll get shit for it.
Why would they get blamed for something a former employee did AFTER they left?
All of first Gen has left IDOL were as gen 2 are now staying along for the ride. I like Rin and Juna but the true favorites are in Gen 2 and the Spanish ones. First Gen besides Rin rarely saw a stream from them this year so I wonder why
Out of first gen idol it’ll only be Nikki and noone left from idolEN first gen.
@@JuhanLiiv1547 I like Nikki. I've seen her stream plenty this year and enjoy tuning in
Fuyo was a vtuber for several years before she became fuyo…….she was great and will always be great
Yea
Brave purchased idol at a set value based on acts. All acts that wish to stay had to sign a new contract. On debut the spanish girl stated that she retained ownership of her IP and that her and idol had more of a partnership deal.
Fuyo was a vtuber for several years before she became fuyo…….she was great and will always be one of my favorite vtubers under any persona
Really?
Who was Fuyo before being Fuyo?
When you go indie or are an indie you dont have no revnue split the split is just different. You are an independent contractor or an independent sales representative attempting to sell yourself to people. You still have to pay a split to youtube/twitch and your team. Manager/artist/merchandiser. The main thing is you get to decide the groups you work for. The groups being sponsors and collab partners. Keeping in mine for an american content creator to make 50k+ usd annually you need 3m+ views a month which isn't very common for most content creators. Keep in mind you need less views if you are in a country with a weaker currency than america.
rare seeing such an amicable split on both sides.
32:55 curious as well
It is possible the models worth has inflated due to the value of the channel and IP being much higher, so it’s probably not an equivalent value of getting an indie model.
The revenue share needs more details. Are they required to stream x amount of time for a week over a year or can they just not stream for a year and then they get the IP?
Yay for bin benrose
I think the Keeping IP side of things, was a wieght in favour of leaving now, the talents that are leaving are all scouted type talents that have very solo tendancies so the ability to leave with IP was a big plus it would have been interesting to see how they would have been without IP but i think Fuyo, rin and katta would have left anyway. after all im pretty sure the talenbts staying execpt the ones from encore wont be able to take there IP with them when they leave
part of me is speculating, Idol let itself be aquired because Rin put in a notice.
It makes sense that enya ignis would stay because they joined idol for the corporate support and is still active on PL acount and just joined. Rin will probably succeed very well as an indie.
Hey Rima, I'm sure you are aware that Pierre got his YT channel back, but I thought I would post this here.
19:41 office politics. yeah makes sense
the IP is not the same as the model
There is more to it then that. There is the MERCH rights. The Social media rights etc. The right to use it in the future for your own profits.
@@braddl9442that’s what I was thinking? I was really confused when she said she’d prefer to pay up front, considering that would be every asset, the model, the channel itself… etc etc. I don’t know how well off corpo vtubers tend to be, but I’d imagine that most people wouldn’t be able to pay ALL of that upfront as IDOL said lol
For me rins best content is scripted videos, so maybe its a diffference in content creation preference. Either way look forward to her... especially right after the year split is up
She mentioned that she was pretty solitary and mainly talked to managers/didn’t collab a lot with the other girls, so being indie was the best fit.
The thumbnail PLEASE 😭
Rip meica
wow she gained 9k subs in 1 day
Plot twist: Rin, Juna, Fuyo, Fen Riru (former Pochi) and whatever is Yuko's new identity will form their own agency!
Just a joke, but would be funny 😁
LOL would love that to see a new collab with rye and them(rye if Yuko pl)
10 days and her sub count went up by 18k
honestly i really just think youre reading too far into this. they both seemed to have already wanted out since agency life wasnt right, and it was a great deal to do so since they could keep their ips and followings
Im not saying it wasn’t a good deal for them it definetly was, but we have way too little info to judge that as so many things depends on what the percentage cut is, do they need to stream a minimum amount, can they just take a 6 month hiatus and call it quit, is there a cap on revenue share and other legalities. analyzing those things is what I find interesting
i wonder why LOL
13:00 I'm not a lawyer but wouldnt that depends on her entry contract? if her entry contract transfer all IP rights to Idol it would be the same as any other talents but i dont think she would sign a contract like that.
Israeli Agency...?
not anymore!
but yes, idol was founded in israel and their first generation (which is now known as Genesis under the idol EN branch) was actually idol HE: Origin
24:36 a quarter-mil subs in a quarter of a year? I hope the Penrose Gambit pays off.