When I first started working in computers. Most cables I did was 50 pin scsi cables and others. We not only have a vice. We also had a proper cable tool. Fun times. Fun times.
I've got a set of 40 pin crip pliers, somewhere. Haven't used them in a couple of decades since my own TRS-80 days. I'll take a look and if I can find them I'll send them to you. I think I've got a bag of 40 pin edge connectors somewhere too. I'll never use them, but you retro stuff, might come in handy
Some things to know about early TRS-80 Model 1 ribbon cable issues. The original TRS-80 Model 1 (1977) was not shielded at all from radio interference emissions, neither the main unit nor the ribbon cable but shortly after it’s release the FCC began requiring computer manufacturer include shielding in their computers and peripherals to limit RF interference. So if I believe that the very earliest TRS-80 Model 1 cables were not shield unlike the broken cable shown here. Another issue they had was that metal use on cable contacts and edge connectors on the expansion unit and main unit were such that they were known to oxidize and require periodic cleaning of the edge connectors by rubbing the contacts with a eraser eraser end of a pencil. This led to owners at the time replacing the ribbon cables with gold plated versions which didn’t oxidize. Also, keep in mind that on TRS-80 Model 1’s the expansion unit ribbon cables are not attached to the edge connectors with the best connection/grip and bad connections/disconnections were not uncommon with even a little movement of the main unit which of course could cause your machine to lockup/crash. This was one of the reasons some people nicknamed them Trash-80’s, that and the fact that prior to RadioShack entering the computer business, they had a reputation for schlocky products, and apparently selling personal computers wasn’t enough at first to change the reputation. Of course many TRS-80 Model 1 owners and Tandy corp itself hated the nickname.
In a pinch (pun intended), I've made up ribbon cables using a G clamp or F clamp and a couple of small pieces of wood to spread the load. It worked ok as long as I was careful to apply even pressure. But a vice is a lot easier to use if you've got access to one.
I remember in the days of parallel and serial ports, floppy drives, IDE and SCSI, I did a lot of this sort of crimping with a vise (vice). The card edge connectors are pretty easy because they're big and stable. But after a while, you break so many of the flimsy IDE and SCSI connectors that it's just worth buying the official tool. They're not that expensive, about $25. I bought mine at Fry's but obviously that's not an option anymore with Fry's evaporating. They should be easy to find online though; look for "IDC crimping tool".
I was a Tandy Service Center manager in the 1980's... Here is some of things i saw back then with that cable... like you said the cable can and does fail.. if the cable is good and you still have problems it is the edge connectors on the CPU and expansion unit..they are tin/lead so they corrode easily..what we used back in the day is a pencil eraser and scrub both sides on the CPU and expansion unit... Better still at the time you could buy edge card connectors that you could solder to the computer edge card that would give you gold connections that you could plug your cable into...not very appealing to look at but much more reliable... Here is some trivia that you may be interested in.. the warranty stickers on TRS computers: manufacture stickers were black with white text service center stickers were white with black text (has the words Radio Shack in the text) .sometimes you will see a 4 digit number written on them starting with a 7 this is the service center number that performed the service... I have also seen red stickers with black text (has the words Radio Shack in the text) but i am not sure what they were used for... Also we used battleship grey locktight on a screw head as a backup warranty seal
You might be the only guy in the world who still cares about a 40 pin IDE cable, they're almost worthless these days. I've got a whole box of these somewhere in the back of my garage, plus a ton of other old connectors from SCSI ribbons to FDD and external multimedia cables, if you need something specific from that age (XT to Pentium III era) post the specs here and I'll search for it, shipping costs for something like that should be reasonable even from this far away (EU).
I do as well, for older hard drives and retro PC builds, even when they're technically useless nowadays it still feels wrong just cutting them up, but they make somewhat good breakout cables for RasPis
You can still find them new online by the bucket full, or buy IDC ends and ribbon cable and make your own. I made a bunch, cut to length for my retro PCs this last year. :-) No worries cutting up old IDE cables for now. We're good.
Thanks for a very informative video. Is the buffered cable required because of the model of the EI or the model 1 or both? If you have an older serial number model 1 will it work with a newer EI unit? Thanks again, saving this one for reference.
TRS-80 model I, level II BASIC, with a cassette drive for storage was my highschool's first computer, and my first exposure to computers. If I'd known then what I know now, I'd have sold my car, saved up and bought an IBM
How do you connect that sort of terminal to linux? I know you said that there was a lot of documentation you had to read through; could you point me to it?
Those cables are "fun". I'd love to be able to say it's the worst design choice in an early/mid 8 bit, but...no. T/S 1000 keyboard, CBM Serial implementation on the C64 for disk access, the IBM PC use of the 8088, and the Intel 80186 all come to mind. But it's up there on that list for sure...
Do you have a tech doc of level 1? I have a clone which I started my adventure with Z-80 assemebler many years ago and was not able to do much on it because of the lack of tech doc. I/O registers, ROM, video documentations. I know only alittle about the machine hardware. video was accessing the RAM on lower priority than Z-80 which was causing flickering at the moment of writting to Video RAM. I saw many years ago a site with soft for TRS but I have not mirrored it and I am not sure it is still available. Moreover it had TRS soft without any information about the model.
Y'all only have ~2 days before #OcTandy rolls out, but I guess it's the best for the last :) (unless October will be.... #Octivetti? Olivetti October? I don't know. Darn I really need to get a Olivetti M24)
I wonder, hypothetically, if you could split all 40 wires and then wrap all the wires in a braided shield of some sort. I imagine it woulden't work at all.
Split the wires to get some shielding around them? I'd rather go buy copper foil from a stained-glass supply house and solder it into a tube that could just pass the whole cable through it. If you laminated it afterwards, you'd likely even have a long-lasting shield.
@@absalomdraconis I've had this issue with tying up my point-point soldering on protoboards. Even if you shield it from outside interference, if you bundle the wires together, you'll get cross-talk between them, which can just make it worse. I know that LPT and serial cables just have their wires loose inside the braid, but they only have a limited number of signal wires. This connector is the entire system bus. Best idea, I found, is to at least bundle the address and data lines separately.
If you're going through the trouble of splitting each of the 40 wires, I'd just salvage an 80-pin ATA-133 cable instead. The extra ground wires between each signal wire are to reduce cross-talk.
Back in the 1980s 3M made IDC cables and connectors, and they even made a round flat cable. It curled up the edges and had a black outer jacket or sleeve. I only recall using it once for a project at work, but it worked out better than a regular flat cable would have. There were also flat cables with twisted pairs, used them in larger disk drive cabinets and such.
@@bobblum5973 You can still get IDC connectors, even card edge ones at Digi-Key, Mouser, etc, the only issue is finding the specific pin count you need. Oddball sizes tend to be harder to find. As for rounded cables, It depends on what it's used for. The issue arises in this case, because the MEM & I/O strobes, and the address lines are sending constantly, and these cause cross-talk with the data bus. Twisted pair is the best method, as the second wire in the pair always acts as a shield for the first wire. In that case, you can bundle them as closely as you like.
40-pin ribbon cable (single color, like Gray) is often MARKED for Pin 1 (Red Line) or in this Video, the Black ribbon cable has a White Line to mark Pin 1. The Card Edge connectors have an ARROW for Pin 1 (many are numbered). YES, he installed Card Edge Backwards, against the 40-pin ribbon cable index.
@@bradleyhove4177 Not always. Often, it depends on whether or not you have the tools and know-how. I never buy network cables either, because I have bulk Cat5e cable, RJ-45's, and the crimping tool on hand, and can make my own far cheaper. Most people don't have these, and will just buy whatever length they need, paying whatever they have to.
I just realized, and this is not to be mocking in any way, but your voice reminds me a bit of Kermit the frog. I'm sorry if this offends you but I just realized this.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
1:09 All the Accursed Farms content om the sidebar shows me you are also a man of taste.
That cut towards your thumb at the end! You made me so anxious! But cool video and grats on getting the expansion connected!
When I first started working in computers. Most cables I did was 50 pin scsi cables and others. We not only have a vice. We also had a proper cable tool. Fun times. Fun times.
Me: oh, I hope he says to use a bench vice.
Uses bench vice.
Me: *whew*
I've used an old hard drive and the floor to compress the ends on. And pliers. A vice almost seems like cheating.
Keep your Richard in a bad habit.
@@nickwallette6201 I think AvE has been a bad influence on you ;P
@@BlackEpyon keep yer stick on the ice
the new cable actually looks better with the machine than the original one did lol
I love old stuff & always find your videos entertaining!
That’s a damn gorgeous Tandy setup. We definitely need to see this setup in more videos.
I learned how to write programs in Z-80 assembly language and many other things with my TRS-80. Great machines to learn programming with.
I've got a set of 40 pin crip pliers, somewhere. Haven't used them in a couple of decades since my own TRS-80 days. I'll take a look and if I can find them I'll send them to you. I think I've got a bag of 40 pin edge connectors somewhere too. I'll never use them, but you retro stuff, might come in handy
Another great video! Looking forward to Octandy:)
i have set ide connectors with a hammer in the past works fine as long as you are carefull and only tap lightly
Some things to know about early TRS-80 Model 1 ribbon cable issues. The original TRS-80 Model 1 (1977) was not shielded at all from radio interference emissions, neither the main unit nor the ribbon cable but shortly after it’s release the FCC began requiring computer manufacturer include shielding in their computers and peripherals to limit RF interference. So if I believe that the very earliest TRS-80 Model 1 cables were not shield unlike the broken cable shown here. Another issue they had was that metal use on cable contacts and edge connectors on the expansion unit and main unit were such that they were known to oxidize and require periodic cleaning of the edge connectors by rubbing the contacts with a eraser eraser end of a pencil. This led to owners at the time replacing the ribbon cables with gold plated versions which didn’t oxidize.
Also, keep in mind that on TRS-80 Model 1’s the expansion unit ribbon cables are not attached to the edge connectors with the best connection/grip and bad connections/disconnections were not uncommon with even a little movement of the main unit which of course could cause your machine to lockup/crash. This was one of the reasons some people nicknamed them Trash-80’s, that and the fact that prior to RadioShack entering the computer business, they had a reputation for schlocky products, and apparently selling personal computers wasn’t enough at first to change the reputation. Of course many TRS-80 Model 1 owners and Tandy corp itself hated the nickname.
I think you can shield it with aluminium foil and attach/solder it to the ground pin.
Soldering to aluminium might produce the same problem all over again.
Could also use an 80-pin ATA-133 cable, since every other wire was ground, but doing up the ends will be a PITA.
In a pinch (pun intended), I've made up ribbon cables using a G clamp or F clamp and a couple of small pieces of wood to spread the load. It worked ok as long as I was careful to apply even pressure. But a vice is a lot easier to use if you've got access to one.
I remember in the days of parallel and serial ports, floppy drives, IDE and SCSI, I did a lot of this sort of crimping with a vise (vice). The card edge connectors are pretty easy because they're big and stable. But after a while, you break so many of the flimsy IDE and SCSI connectors that it's just worth buying the official tool. They're not that expensive, about $25. I bought mine at Fry's but obviously that's not an option anymore with Fry's evaporating. They should be easy to find online though; look for "IDC crimping tool".
You could use the 80 pin IDE cable for this and retain the shielding.
I was a Tandy Service Center manager in the 1980's...
Here is some of things i saw back then with that cable...
like you said the cable can and does fail..
if the cable is good and you still have problems it is the edge connectors on the CPU and expansion unit..they are tin/lead so they corrode easily..what we used back in the day is a pencil eraser and scrub both sides on the CPU and expansion unit...
Better still at the time you could buy edge card connectors that you could solder to the computer edge card that would give you gold connections that you could plug your cable into...not very appealing to look at but much more reliable...
Here is some trivia that you may be interested in..
the warranty stickers on TRS computers:
manufacture stickers were black with white text
service center stickers were white with black text (has the words Radio Shack in the text) .sometimes you will see a 4 digit number written on them starting with a 7 this is the service center number that performed the service...
I have also seen red stickers with black text (has the words Radio Shack in the text) but i am not sure what they were used for...
Also we used battleship grey locktight on a screw head as a backup warranty seal
You might be the only guy in the world who still cares about a 40 pin IDE cable, they're almost worthless these days. I've got a whole box of these somewhere in the back of my garage, plus a ton of other old connectors from SCSI ribbons to FDD and external multimedia cables, if you need something specific from that age (XT to Pentium III era) post the specs here and I'll search for it, shipping costs for something like that should be reasonable even from this far away (EU).
neat! i always need ribbon cables for stuff i build, 40pin is pretty good for that.
I do as well, for older hard drives and retro PC builds, even when they're technically useless nowadays it still feels wrong just cutting them up, but they make somewhat good breakout cables for RasPis
You can still find them new online by the bucket full, or buy IDC ends and ribbon cable and make your own. I made a bunch, cut to length for my retro PCs this last year. :-) No worries cutting up old IDE cables for now. We're good.
If you haven't got a vice, mole grips work fine.
I like this new video format!
A pair of adjustable pliers (such as those sold by Channel-Loc) works also...
Thanks for a very informative video. Is the buffered cable required because of the model of the EI or the model 1 or both? If you have an older serial number model 1 will it work with a newer EI unit? Thanks again, saving this one for reference.
I like this channel so much I am saving the episodes for later.
When I needed cabled for my kaypro 2x, I found them from a small company known as cabledepot
TRS-80 model I, level II BASIC, with a cassette drive for storage was my highschool's first computer, and my first exposure to computers.
If I'd known then what I know now, I'd have sold my car, saved up and bought an IBM
One video production suggestion: if you're working on black or dark cables and connectors, use a lighter color background for better contrast.
you could probably use foil tape if you want to shield it
How do you connect that sort of terminal to linux? I know you said that there was a lot of documentation you had to read through; could you point me to it?
Those cables are "fun". I'd love to be able to say it's the worst design choice in an early/mid 8 bit, but...no. T/S 1000 keyboard, CBM Serial implementation on the C64 for disk access, the IBM PC use of the 8088, and the Intel 80186 all come to mind. But it's up there on that list for sure...
Do you have a tech doc of level 1?
I have a clone which I started my adventure with Z-80 assemebler many years ago and was not able to do much on it because of the lack of tech doc. I/O registers, ROM, video documentations. I know only alittle about the machine hardware. video was accessing the RAM on lower priority than Z-80 which was causing flickering at the moment of writting to Video RAM.
I saw many years ago a site with soft for TRS but I have not mirrored it and I am not sure it is still available. Moreover it had TRS soft without any information about the model.
Now I'm waiting for IBMarch
Y'all only have ~2 days before #OcTandy rolls out, but I guess it's the best for the last :) (unless October will be.... #Octivetti? Olivetti October? I don't know. Darn I really need to get a Olivetti M24)
Wow! This is true nature activism
Well, that was enough to get me to go out and purchase a vise!
They can be really helpful!
I have a 40p IDEC crimper. Thats 40+ years old.
Great job! :-)
What happened to Druaga1?
Investigating soundtracks now.
He's out smoking.
Interesting video :)
next cool video
How to download windows 2000 in a win 7 pc?
Yo how's everyone here? ☺
I wonder, hypothetically, if you could split all 40 wires and then wrap all the wires in a braided shield of some sort. I imagine it woulden't work at all.
Split the wires to get some shielding around them? I'd rather go buy copper foil from a stained-glass supply house and solder it into a tube that could just pass the whole cable through it. If you laminated it afterwards, you'd likely even have a long-lasting shield.
@@absalomdraconis I've had this issue with tying up my point-point soldering on protoboards. Even if you shield it from outside interference, if you bundle the wires together, you'll get cross-talk between them, which can just make it worse. I know that LPT and serial cables just have their wires loose inside the braid, but they only have a limited number of signal wires. This connector is the entire system bus. Best idea, I found, is to at least bundle the address and data lines separately.
If you're going through the trouble of splitting each of the 40 wires, I'd just salvage an 80-pin ATA-133 cable instead. The extra ground wires between each signal wire are to reduce cross-talk.
Back in the 1980s 3M made IDC cables and connectors, and they even made a round flat cable. It curled up the edges and had a black outer jacket or sleeve. I only recall using it once for a project at work, but it worked out better than a regular flat cable would have.
There were also flat cables with twisted pairs, used them in larger disk drive cabinets and such.
@@bobblum5973 You can still get IDC connectors, even card edge ones at Digi-Key, Mouser, etc, the only issue is finding the specific pin count you need. Oddball sizes tend to be harder to find.
As for rounded cables, It depends on what it's used for. The issue arises in this case, because the MEM & I/O strobes, and the address lines are sending constantly, and these cause cross-talk with the data bus. Twisted pair is the best method, as the second wire in the pair always acts as a shield for the first wire. In that case, you can bundle them as closely as you like.
40-pin ribbon cable (single color, like Gray) is often MARKED for Pin 1 (Red Line) or
in this Video, the Black ribbon cable has a White Line to mark Pin 1.
The Card Edge connectors have an ARROW for Pin 1 (many are numbered).
YES, he installed Card Edge Backwards, against the 40-pin ribbon cable index.
Though in this case it doesn't change anything about the wiring itself, it would just be for aesthetic and completeness purposes
$45 USD for a buffered cable? I could build one myself from scratch for cheaper.
You could say that about almost any product over $10
@@bradleyhove4177 Not always. Often, it depends on whether or not you have the tools and know-how. I never buy network cables either, because I have bulk Cat5e cable, RJ-45's, and the crimping tool on hand, and can make my own far cheaper. Most people don't have these, and will just buy whatever length they need, paying whatever they have to.
I just realized, and this is not to be mocking in any way, but your voice reminds me a bit of Kermit the frog. I'm sorry if this offends you but I just realized this.
Why would anyone want a trash 80?