What a great time to be alive! RUclips is full of fascinating new things to study such as art, music and computer science tutorials! We'll be never bored to live our lives ever again. Thanks!
I would like to add a quick note about lenses because I think it was confusing in this video - the focal length of the lens itself doesn't change perspective at all, only distance of the object does. There could be some lens distortion of course, but from the point of perspective there is no difference. The confusing part comes from mixing angle of view with framing. Where you drew cubes on the scale of wide-long lenses, you kept framing the same, so basically you put the camera closer with wide lens and farther away with long lens. A more realistic example would have been one cube with different cropping. Long lenses produce flat images because they zoom in so much that spectacular convergence is out of the frame. Feng zhu has a great video on this topic, or check out some photography tutorials. If you have a camera try photographing the same object from the same position with different focal length, then crop in the wider shot to match the longer. It will be very close.
It was about time someone did a video about rotating objects in perspective. I've been searching for a good tutorial about the topic for ages but to no avail. Thank you very much for doing a video on this topic!
Thank you!!!!! And finally someone tackles perspective and include the lens types. Took me a while but I taught myself about them, learned how to identify them looking at photography and movie stills and it was a game changer. Photography tutorials on lenses help dramatically.
This is such a great summary of camera angles. I love that you covered perspective, rotating your subject, distortion and effect of different lens on your subject. A lot to learn but a very good starting point in creating a storyboard or from the imagination.
These perspective tutorials are all very useful ! my only problem is since your talking over pre recorded footage sometimes it's hard to tell what part of your drawing your talking about although it might just be me
That is exactly what is missing from all these "learn to draw in perspective" tutorials that only show you how to draw perfectly 90 degrees angle shapes. Need to wrap my head around these concepts, doing rotations in 2pt perspectives is a lot to process for my brains!
Great tutorial!The explanation for lens lenght is often brushed over and it actually is essential to understand perspective. Also kudosa for the relaxing background music
I arrogantly thought I would find the box exercise trivial. I DID NOT! Great little exercise that’ll keep working at, thanks for the upload and the whole series.
I really can't express in simple words how thankful I am for your existence I feel so appreciative holy shit please please never stop uploading those videos and if you need to u can take a break just don't ever get sick of it
Boy, I've seen this topic explained wrongly or needlessly complicated a ton. Thanks for this sleak tutorial for rotating forms. It's what I needed to draw objects rotated out of the main VP grid.
SO helpful holy shit i was struggling to create a rectangular prism at my own selected perspective but this was hella helpful i understood what to do after the first page
this series is pure gold.. Im making screen shots and posting on Pintrest so Ill have those for ref when I practice if you don't mind. Mentioning your YT user name and linking the relevant video always. This is top quality stuff thank you
this is such a great tutorial. with the ellipses rotation exercise, im a little confused how you find your vanishing points though... would you be able to explain?
Hi James. Helpful video :) I've just figured out what's happening with the rotating boxes exercise. I'm assuming the panning camera would also be rotating in order to keep the box center frame each time? And the y and x axes of the graph represents the side and top planes respectively? Also, could I just substitute the camera for an eye level? Cheers!
6:45 I don't understand. placing another rotated object in perspective can be done by establishing viewing angle and moving vanishing points in sync.At the beginning of the video you show an ellipse method for 1 point. So what exactly are you doing at 6:45? how do you know this box fits in that scene based on the information there?
I’ve been studying your videos, a few months now. You discuss technical terms very fast.. I don’t know all these definitions. Also, you move fast.. understandably you wouldn’t want your videos to be boring. I’d recommend adding documents for reference (Google Docs is free/shareable).. like dude, I had to screenshot a lot of info. u displayed. Maybe if u had a book? Like Scott Robertson. You have more than enough, talent my friend. I’d buy your book.
Hey james, could you maybe give a list of the resources and/or books that you've found most useful in your studies so far? Your lessons are very crisp, and easy to follow. You're doing a great job with them!
I'll be making a new video on it. It's a complicated subject but once you get the hang of it it'll become super intuitive. Another solution (albeit cost prohibitive) is to get your hands on the different camera lenses and play around with them yourself
This is one of the better perspective tutorials. _However_, it still does not cover what I've been seeking for awhile, now. I cannot seem to find any one who does! Are there techniques to draw just a simple box but tilted on the *other* two axis. Every perspective tutorial I find always has the bottom of the box parallel to the ground, as if everything is always in complete "order". How do you draw more "chaotic" things in proper perspective; such as if the box is thrown through the air and spins at different angles? Any info on this would be most welcome!
watch the previous video (part 4) on rotation of forms, also I'll be releasing a video on the foundation patreon where I talk about objects rotated in all different angles.
when you create an ellipse to rotate a cube or form, does that ellipse need to be a perfect circle? and by this i don't mean that it will look like a real circle on paper, but instead that it is a real circle accurately drawn in perspective. I think it would make sense that you would have to rotate around a perfect circle (in perspective,) but then how do you efficiently draw that perfect circle in perspective? I know that there is a long method for how to create perfect circles in perspective, but I was wondering if there is a simple way to freehand a perfect circle in perspective with pretty solid accuracy? Or do ppl just eyeball it after years of practicing drawing perfect circles in perspective the hard way?
hey james. I like your channel and its entertaining to watch. However I would have loved seeing more help and insight regarding how to "place" the camera in my mind. how does it relate with vanishing points etc. when im drawing extreme angles i just have to rely on reference. there is no way for me currently to construct a complicated scene or a room.
hey bud, i think the video for next week will help because we're going to design a set, place a camera within that set, and then create illustrations from said camera
Awesome video! Quick question: When you're turning the boxes at 1:52, are some of the boxes in 1 point perspective and others two or are all 1 or two point?
nice perspective demonstration, looking forward for advanced perspective demonstration especially when y want to create new planes and y want to Define a custom rotation axis for that plane (custom Axis means not lying on one of the 3 vps of the box vanishing lines in picture plane)
I just saw this video, so not sure if this video you speak of has been made, already, but I have been searching and searching for information on techniques to draw just a simple box but tilted on the OTHER two axis. Every perspective tutorial I find *always* has the bottom of the box parallel to the ground, as if everything is always in complete "order". How do you draw more "chaotic" things in perspective, such as if the box is thrown through the air and spins at different angles? If anyone has found good info on this, I would love if you shared it, please!
I understand the concept of Wide/Long angle lenses , yet in your video when you made the transition from wide angle lens boxes to the long angle lens boxes you raised the Horizon line extremely higher ! , and as far as i know the HL stays the same it doesn't move up or down , and if you are talking about convergence and how much vanishing points are placed far from each other then we should have seen an opposite effect to your transition where the long lens on the left and the wide lens on the right , What is your take on that ?
I know your comment is 4 years old, but i was just thinking the same thing. Even with the wide angle lense shot, if the horizon remained the same, you should still see the top of the vehicle. He also raised the horizon but didn’t mention it. It confused me
But are you just guessing it now? At 6:43, as well as in the sketches in some of your other videos, there seems to be no thought process anymore to the rotating.
The perspective and angles are easier, I just watch such videos to marvel at peoples skills of drawing automobiles. No matter how much I practice I suck at drawing them.
yes, so long as you are rotating the object and not tilting it, all the vanishing points will be on the horizon line. Tilting or sloped planes like rooftops will converge to a point above the HL
When you’re eyeballing or guessing the perspective how do you do it? Is it rough and just ‘good enough’ or is it super accurate? I can draw quite well and can sketch single objects without vanishing lines/points but struggle with larger scenes and usually end up putting in the vanishing arrays in to clean things up and fix the drawing (or if the angle is hard I won’t bother trying to guess I’ll just set up vanishing point guidelines). Thanks in advance to anyone who has the answer :)
Generally they're just going "good enough". You can see it often, when an artist hasn't overlaid a perspective grid. Having enough experience will allow them to eyeball it, so it looks good enough to the viewer, even though when you put in your own perspective grid over their art, it might be *slightly* off. Just experience, really. For example, in the final scene of this video, take a look at the guidelines for the dumpster in the right-hand image. The 3 vertical lines do not converge to a single vanishing point (either the left line is drawn at too extreme an angle, or the right line is drawn not extreme enough), but once all the details are drawn in, you don't really notice it, and the drawing looks fine.
@@hsmileyface7398 thanks for taking the time to respond! Thanks, I think because I tried draw a box I had the impression that you should be aiming for near perfect perspective and these guys were just freaks at it. Wasted a lot of time getting really hung up on it :s
Hi, I have a question. Krenz cushart seems to use a different method of 'rotation' - he divides a square into 16 units, etc. to find the precise angle of rotation. Your method uses cylinders, and just rotating within it, very interesting. Are both these methods interchangeable? Or do they have different purposes?
Didn’t you also change the level of the horizon in the wide angle shot? I’m confused because even if you use a wide angle lense, if the horizon/eye level remains the same, shouldn’t you still be able to see the top of the vehicle like in the first drawing?
I did change the camera level as well. Not sure why I did that since this is pretty old now, but that's the kind of low budget content you get here on the tube
Great video! Nonetheless, I am having a lot of difficulty with drawing the ellipse that represents a circle in perspective in your first exercise. In Scott Robertson's book, he shows a technique which uses iteration to achieve this, but I feel this technique is lacking because iterating with a felt tip pen is not very practical. Is there possibly another way I could visualise this problem to draw the circle in perspective?
Have a look at the third part of this series and see if that helps! In practical terms, the ellipse needs to hit each of the four midpoints of the box we've created in one point perspective. I think creating a lot of boxes in various perspectives and fitting ellipses onto each face will help you strengthen this skill. And if you still need help just head over to discord and message me directly!
most 3d modeling programs will allow you to change your lens. If you have the opportunity as well, try to get your hand on a camera and lenses (or just look up photos) it makes it a lot easier to understand
![Twenty One Pilots - “The Line” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E2Rj2gQAyPA/mqdefault.jpg)
"any of the 3D modeling programs"...opens up minecraft
Not a bad idea to be honest...especially when you put multiple blocks together to create a complex form
You just gave me an idea!
Unironically a not too shabby idea, considering you can actually change the "lens" in the settings lol
Yeah!!
i mean yea but you cant rotate a cube
What a great time to be alive! RUclips is full of fascinating new things to study such as art, music and computer science tutorials! We'll be never bored to live our lives ever again. Thanks!
Art ☺️ music ☺️
Computer science 😰🤢🤮
well, it would be true if our job doesn't take away all of our time
Aye bruh
TheMexart I guess you got time now.
@@fourhead6651 lol i see what u mean
I would like to add a quick note about lenses because I think it was confusing in this video - the focal length of the lens itself doesn't change perspective at all, only distance of the object does. There could be some lens distortion of course, but from the point of perspective there is no difference. The confusing part comes from mixing angle of view with framing. Where you drew cubes on the scale of wide-long lenses, you kept framing the same, so basically you put the camera closer with wide lens and farther away with long lens. A more realistic example would have been one cube with different cropping. Long lenses produce flat images because they zoom in so much that spectacular convergence is out of the frame. Feng zhu has a great video on this topic, or check out some photography tutorials. If you have a camera try photographing the same object from the same position with different focal length, then crop in the wider shot to match the longer. It will be very close.
It was about time someone did a video about rotating objects in perspective. I've been searching for a good tutorial about the topic for ages but to no avail. Thank you very much for doing a video on this topic!
Thank you!!!!! And finally someone tackles perspective and include the lens types. Took me a while but I taught myself about them, learned how to identify them looking at photography and movie stills and it was a game changer. Photography tutorials on lenses help dramatically.
The camera lens thing I didn't expect to be so useful, but drawing with a wider lense makes a composition look much more dynamic!
He lost me fast. But I'm grateful
he literally sounds like my math teacher. He's going too fast...
One of the apects of perspective that often gets left out or brushed over in many tutorials.
Great job explaining it.
This is such a great summary of camera angles. I love that you covered perspective, rotating your subject, distortion and effect of different lens on your subject. A lot to learn but a very good starting point in creating a storyboard or from the imagination.
These perspective tutorials are all very useful ! my only problem is since your talking over pre recorded footage sometimes it's hard to tell what part of your drawing your talking about although it might just be me
agreed! I haven't had as much time to do the tutorials traditionally, but I'm going to take two weeks for the next video
That is exactly what is missing from all these "learn to draw in perspective" tutorials that only show you how to draw perfectly 90 degrees angle shapes.
Need to wrap my head around these concepts, doing rotations in 2pt perspectives is a lot to process for my brains!
Great tutorial!The explanation for lens lenght is often brushed over and it actually is essential to understand perspective. Also kudosa for the relaxing background music
I arrogantly thought I would find the box exercise trivial. I DID NOT! Great little exercise that’ll keep working at, thanks for the upload and the whole series.
I really can't express in simple words how thankful I am for your existence
I feel so appreciative holy shit
please please never stop uploading those videos and if you need to u can take a break just don't ever get sick of it
I'll be making videos for a long time to come, dont worry!
1:10 when you rotate in xz plane you create a new set of VPs that are unique from the previous rotation
Boy, I've seen this topic explained wrongly or needlessly complicated a ton.
Thanks for this sleak tutorial for rotating forms.
It's what I needed to draw objects rotated out of the main VP grid.
Look at you even uploading on thanksgiving what a saint
I was literally just studying lens lengths last night too
I don't bow to no turkey!
@@moderndayjames -Greeks in 1821
these are the best tutorials out there for fundamentals
SO helpful holy shit i was struggling to create a rectangular prism at my own selected perspective but this was hella helpful i understood what to do after the first page
Best MDJ video I've seen. Great job!
this series is pure gold.. Im making screen shots and posting on Pintrest so Ill have those for ref when I practice if you don't mind. Mentioning your YT user name and linking the relevant video always.
This is top quality stuff thank you
thanks so much!
at 5:00 you are raising the camera level, you only had to make the downwards lines parallel. Same at 8:00 you have a different stationary point.
I used to pray the rosary but now i just watch all these perspective videos in series.
That is one tiny dumpster...or a really huge van. Love your videos, no beating around the bush and awesome content!
That's what I was thinking, the dumpster is too close to the van and it ruins the scale
very helpful, thank you! I was reading How to draw by Scott Robertson and watching your video give me more information about how it's applied.
krentz cushart's technique is amazing
The clock method really helped me - far more than it should have. I'm somewhat embarrassed that I didn't think of such a simple perspective before.
His techniques are da best
Gonna watch this again! And practice! ❤ very helpful
Finally! I will be able to draw the swag red amongus wearing Jordans!
best tutorial I found so far.
So good, amazing to artists everywhere thanks for uploading
this is such a great tutorial. with the ellipses rotation exercise, im a little confused how you find your vanishing points though... would you be able to explain?
i love your videos, they are very educative in some of the most important subjects in art: perspective and anatomy. Keep it up!
Hi James. Helpful video :) I've just figured out what's happening with the rotating boxes exercise. I'm assuming the panning camera would also be rotating in order to keep the box center frame each time? And the y and x axes of the graph represents the side and top planes respectively? Also, could I just substitute the camera for an eye level? Cheers!
thank you so much for describing the process so detail!very grateful!
My mind is blown
6:45 I don't understand. placing another rotated object in perspective can be done by establishing viewing angle and moving vanishing points in sync.At the beginning of the video you show an ellipse method for 1 point. So what exactly are you doing at 6:45? how do you know this box fits in that scene based on the information there?
I’ve been studying your videos, a few months now. You discuss technical terms very fast.. I don’t know all these definitions. Also, you move fast.. understandably you wouldn’t want your videos to be boring. I’d recommend adding documents for reference (Google Docs is free/shareable).. like dude, I had to screenshot a lot of info. u displayed. Maybe if u had a book? Like Scott Robertson. You have more than enough, talent my friend. I’d buy your book.
Yeah I'm going to redo all these old videos, I don't think they're very good! I like the idea of including documents as well
Mind... blown!
Hey james, could you maybe give a list of the resources and/or books that you've found most useful in your studies so far? Your lessons are very crisp, and easy to follow. You're doing a great job with them!
Thank you! Check the discord server for a list of books
40 seconds in and my brain isn't working anymore
He's knows what he's talking about but he's not a good teacher
Have an exam next week, this would be a really usefull tip for me.
THIS IS SO NICE !! Thank you so much for such an interesting content, this helps a lot! i m taking notes
Today I can say I'm very thankful for these vids! :)
Idk why but I can’t wrap my brain around it.
I'll be making a new video on it. It's a complicated subject but once you get the hang of it it'll become super intuitive.
Another solution (albeit cost prohibitive) is to get your hands on the different camera lenses and play around with them yourself
@@moderndayjames I have been taking pictures of a rubix cube and making the vp. Its helping. And your videos are really helpful. Thank you.😁
Pencil know the struggle
thank you so much I was looking for an explanation on that you're an angel
When he starts the detailed drawings in these videos I had to change the video speed to 0.5 for easier learning.
man, you are awesome, this video is the answer of my long waited question. Thanks a lot.
This is one of the better perspective tutorials. _However_, it still does not cover what I've been seeking for awhile, now. I cannot seem to find any one who does! Are there techniques to draw just a simple box but tilted on the *other* two axis. Every perspective tutorial I find always has the bottom of the box parallel to the ground, as if everything is always in complete "order". How do you draw more "chaotic" things in proper perspective; such as if the box is thrown through the air and spins at different angles? Any info on this would be most welcome!
watch the previous video (part 4) on rotation of forms, also I'll be releasing a video on the foundation patreon where I talk about objects rotated in all different angles.
Thank YOU... MUCH appreciated.!!
Simple and effective videos.
THIS HAS BEEN IN TIME LAPSE ALL ALONG?
No wonder I’ve messed up while trying to match your pace.
Yeah its sped up. This is just a taste of his gumroad videos
I think I’m slowly starting to get it!
when you create an ellipse to rotate a cube or form, does that ellipse need to be a perfect circle? and by this i don't mean that it will look like a real circle on paper, but instead that it is a real circle accurately drawn in perspective. I think it would make sense that you would have to rotate around a perfect circle (in perspective,) but then how do you efficiently draw that perfect circle in perspective? I know that there is a long method for how to create perfect circles in perspective, but I was wondering if there is a simple way to freehand a perfect circle in perspective with pretty solid accuracy? Or do ppl just eyeball it after years of practicing drawing perfect circles in perspective the hard way?
Fantastic lessons on your channel, thank you. I'll be committing some time to learning from you.
Thank you James. Very helpful
infinitely useful. Thank you.
I should really learn perspective because I'm having trouble with that
this is pure gold
Amazing! Thanks so much for sharing with us
I love your channel! Thanks for this kind of videos, they are super helpful for an aspiring animator~
In the rotating cube exercise, how do you know where the vanishing points are for each cube?
hey james. I like your channel and its entertaining to watch. However I would have loved seeing more help and insight regarding how to "place" the camera in my mind. how does it relate with vanishing points etc. when im drawing extreme angles i just have to rely on reference. there is no way for me currently to construct a complicated scene or a room.
hey bud, i think the video for next week will help because we're going to design a set, place a camera within that set, and then create illustrations from said camera
sounds awesome :)
Powerful course 👏👏👏
Tell me, please, from which part of "Star Wars" is this composition taken?
This was super helpful!
This is so hard.
Awesome video! Quick question: When you're turning the boxes at 1:52, are some of the boxes in 1 point perspective and others two or are all 1 or two point?
in this case all 2 points i think since between the violet and the green one is no cube from straight front.. i think...
Love the tutorial but gee how do you draw your lines so effortlessly without the vanishing points!
nice perspective demonstration, looking forward for advanced perspective demonstration especially when y want to create new planes and y want to Define a custom rotation axis for that plane (custom Axis means not lying on one of the 3 vps of the box vanishing lines in picture plane)
I just saw this video, so not sure if this video you speak of has been made, already, but I have been searching and searching for information on techniques to draw just a simple box but tilted on the OTHER two axis. Every perspective tutorial I find *always* has the bottom of the box parallel to the ground, as if everything is always in complete "order". How do you draw more "chaotic" things in perspective, such as if the box is thrown through the air and spins at different angles? If anyone has found good info on this, I would love if you shared it, please!
Check marshall vandruff perspective series
Thank you for taking the time (quickly, even!) to reply! I will take a look. :)
I understand the concept of Wide/Long angle lenses , yet in your video when you made the transition from wide angle lens boxes to the long angle lens boxes you raised the Horizon line extremely higher ! , and as far as i know the HL stays the same it doesn't move up or down , and if you are talking about convergence and how much vanishing points are placed far from each other then we should have seen an opposite effect to your transition where the long lens on the left and the wide lens on the right , What is your take on that ?
I know your comment is 4 years old, but i was just thinking the same thing. Even with the wide angle lense shot, if the horizon remained the same, you should still see the top of the vehicle. He also raised the horizon but didn’t mention it. It confused me
would "isometric perspective" be the same as euclidean space? if not What would be the difference?
I don't know why seeing you sketching vehicle makes me wanna play GTA
amazing craft, thanks!
But are you just guessing it now? At 6:43, as well as in the sketches in some of your other videos, there seems to be no thought process anymore to the rotating.
OH MY GOD!!!! THANK YOU SOOOOOO MUCH!
The perspective and angles are easier, I just watch such videos to marvel at peoples skills of drawing automobiles. No matter how much I practice I suck at drawing them.
Amazing super helpful thank you so much !
Are all those new VPs on the same horizon line James? Thanks!
yes, so long as you are rotating the object and not tilting it, all the vanishing points will be on the horizon line. Tilting or sloped planes like rooftops will converge to a point above the HL
When you’re eyeballing or guessing the perspective how do you do it? Is it rough and just ‘good enough’ or is it super accurate? I can draw quite well and can sketch single objects without vanishing lines/points but struggle with larger scenes and usually end up putting in the vanishing arrays in to clean things up and fix the drawing (or if the angle is hard I won’t bother trying to guess I’ll just set up vanishing point guidelines). Thanks in advance to anyone who has the answer :)
Generally they're just going "good enough". You can see it often, when an artist hasn't overlaid a perspective grid. Having enough experience will allow them to eyeball it, so it looks good enough to the viewer, even though when you put in your own perspective grid over their art, it might be *slightly* off. Just experience, really.
For example, in the final scene of this video, take a look at the guidelines for the dumpster in the right-hand image. The 3 vertical lines do not converge to a single vanishing point (either the left line is drawn at too extreme an angle, or the right line is drawn not extreme enough), but once all the details are drawn in, you don't really notice it, and the drawing looks fine.
@@hsmileyface7398 thanks for taking the time to respond! Thanks, I think because I tried draw a box I had the impression that you should be aiming for near perfect perspective and these guys were just freaks at it. Wasted a lot of time getting really hung up on it :s
Hi, I have a question.
Krenz cushart seems to use a different method of 'rotation' - he divides a square into 16 units, etc. to find the precise angle of rotation.
Your method uses cylinders, and just rotating within it, very interesting.
Are both these methods interchangeable? Or do they have different purposes?
Didn’t you also change the level of the horizon in the wide angle shot? I’m confused because even if you use a wide angle lense, if the horizon/eye level remains the same, shouldn’t you still be able to see the top of the vehicle like in the first drawing?
I did change the camera level as well. Not sure why I did that since this is pretty old now, but that's the kind of low budget content you get here on the tube
Lol your content is top notch. I’ve learned tons from your videos. Thanks for cleaning that up for me, and I appreciate the response
Excelente ejmplo hermano. Muy bueno.
This video helped a lot
how do you know every box is the same volume?
Awesome! Really Helpfull Thank you!
Good job
Wowow thanks for sharing
Great video! Nonetheless, I am having a lot of difficulty with drawing the ellipse that represents a circle in perspective in your first exercise. In Scott Robertson's book, he shows a technique which uses iteration to achieve this, but I feel this technique is lacking because iterating with a felt tip pen is not very practical. Is there possibly another way I could visualise this problem to draw the circle in perspective?
Have a look at the third part of this series and see if that helps! In practical terms, the ellipse needs to hit each of the four midpoints of the box we've created in one point perspective. I think creating a lot of boxes in various perspectives and fitting ellipses onto each face will help you strengthen this skill. And if you still need help just head over to discord and message me directly!
moderndayjames thanks! I have to say, you're a cool guy
why thank you very much you're a pretty cool guy yourself ;]
me: learning 3d so i dont have to do technical drawing from the ground up ever again
all what i need
Really helpfull material! Thanks!
Where do you find the information on how tings look with specific film lenses?
A lot of the resources I use on the channel are from books, but this particular video was done with a lot of exploration using 3D software!
Thank you!
true
What program you use to distinguish between long lense and short lense?
most 3d modeling programs will allow you to change your lens. If you have the opportunity as well, try to get your hand on a camera and lenses (or just look up photos) it makes it a lot easier to understand
@@moderndayjames thanks for advice. Thank you for noticing♥️♥️
first after being un unlisted
how didyou draw fig on 0 sek? what proportions did you use? sorry for my english
wide lense gang