The description that you give for the contrast practice is helpful but tantalising. I am eagerly looking forward to more context and demos in the full version. ❣🤯❣
I see you playing along with TomPlay for some of your pieces, I've not heard of them before now. Are you able to talk about your experience with it as a practice/learning utility?
Thanks for sharing Daniel. That was awesome! Loved the bow floating and catching the string articulation bit. Perhaps can share a bit about the the bow index finger doing its part there.
Well you said it - index finger gets a little electric shock engagement. I would say however that I’m thinking of smacking the bow with my entire hand (so, via the wrist), the index being an extension of that and the captain of the ship. I don’t believe that the pronation of the forearm is the correct concept for the sorts of activations in general. Working from the wrist, via the index with a hanging feeling in the larger parts of the arm is a superior approach in my view. Technically some forearm pronation is happening under the hood, but I think it’s the wrong thing to imagine and enact.
@@DanielKurganov awesome take. 👍🏼 I would think if there is any pronation, it should be of the wrist and definitely agree it should not be of the whole arm. Pronating the wrist helps the index finger apply and regulate the required amount of force that translates to bow pressure for the intended articulation. So I think it’s a working in tandem sort of situation the pronation of the wrist and the index finger.
@@stephdan11 reality and imagery starts to conflict :) it’s actually not possible to pronate the wrist 🤣 but yes…it’s all there. In my upcoming course on right hand technique I get into the weeds on this and do feel I come out with something that satisfies imagery and reality…somewhat :)
@@DanielKurganov Dear Daniel, to clarify the terms: We agree to call the already pronated forearm used in violin playing 'neutral.' What we violinistically mean by 'pronated' forearm is actually a 'rotated' forearm. And as you rightly corrected your responder, neither the wrist nor the upper arm are capable of pronation.
@@ViolinClassUSA I think this confuses active pronation with passive alignment that appears to be pronation. In our ‘neutral bow hold on the string’ example, the forearm appears pronated because we have lifted our elbow using shoulder rotation, which of course rotates the hand as well. Try it: lift your elbow (upper arm) sideways from your body (abduction) with a limp hand, without activating any muscles in the forearm. Your palm will roughly face the floor, making the forearm appear pronated. However, no pronation has occurred. Pronation means that the pronation muscles (Pronator Teres, Pronator Quadratus) have been engaged, moving the distal end of the radius over the ulna. This is what happens when we turn a doorknob or use that kind of force to press into the stick. If that hasn't happened, it's not pronation. Interestingly, you can even turn a doorknob using only the muscles around the shoulder-it’s weird but possible. This demonstrates that the same observed effect (e.g., the palm facing the floor) can be achieved through different means. However to correctly identify the action or motion, we must trace it back to the muscles actually doing the work. My argument violinistically is that wrist flexion (hand going "down") is a more primary driver of great sound production than pronation. While both movements are distinct, they inevitably work together and both leverage the index finger. However, I believe the emphasis on their roles is often misplaced, with wrist flexion playing a more crucial part in achieving great, effortless sound. Similarly to the "vibrato goes below the pitch" line that great players utter (while not doing what they say in reality) I think many have become convinced that pronating force in the forearm is the primary driver of sound production while in reality the hand and even the index fingers own actions via intrinsic hand muscles is the key. I'll end with Abram Shtern's advice, which proves some kind of point (not sure what it is): "1st finger push down, thumb push up."
It’s difficult to put it into the necessary context without making the video much longer. The idea was this method of playing it slowly as I described, sensitive to certain sensations, before playing it in full tempo. This is meant as a sort of appetizer/quick tip, as I am releasing the whole video soon!
@@DanielKurganov I’ll look forward to it. Slow practice is a staple of good learning and any advice on how to make it more effective will be appreciated.
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I say you are the worl widw best violin player in the world!!!
I'm really looking forward to this class. Thank you so much 🙏
Thank you thank you thank you very much!!! 💐🌷 It's answering the mystery all this time.
Thank you again for another video Maestro Kurganov. 😊😊
Super super super lovely playing fantastic
Augustine violinist from Malaysia
Look forward to the full version! Very interesting
I always get re-inspired 😊
Amazing control
The description that you give for the contrast practice is helpful but tantalising. I am eagerly looking forward to more context and demos in the full version. ❣🤯❣
I see you playing along with TomPlay for some of your pieces, I've not heard of them before now. Are you able to talk about your experience with it as a practice/learning utility?
Thanks for sharing Daniel. That was awesome! Loved the bow floating and catching the string articulation bit. Perhaps can share a bit about the the bow index finger doing its part there.
Well you said it - index finger gets a little electric shock engagement. I would say however that I’m thinking of smacking the bow with my entire hand (so, via the wrist), the index being an extension of that and the captain of the ship. I don’t believe that the pronation of the forearm is the correct concept for the sorts of activations in general. Working from the wrist, via the index with a hanging feeling in the larger parts of the arm is a superior approach in my view. Technically some forearm pronation is happening under the hood, but I think it’s the wrong thing to imagine and enact.
@@DanielKurganov awesome take. 👍🏼 I would think if there is any pronation, it should be of the wrist and definitely agree it should not be of the whole arm. Pronating the wrist helps the index finger apply and regulate the required amount of force that translates to bow pressure for the intended articulation. So I think it’s a working in tandem sort of situation the pronation of the wrist and the index finger.
@@stephdan11 reality and imagery starts to conflict :) it’s actually not possible to pronate the wrist 🤣 but yes…it’s all there. In my upcoming course on right hand technique I get into the weeds on this and do feel I come out with something that satisfies imagery and reality…somewhat :)
@@DanielKurganov Dear Daniel, to clarify the terms: We agree to call the already pronated forearm used in violin playing 'neutral.' What we violinistically mean by 'pronated' forearm is actually a 'rotated' forearm. And as you rightly corrected your responder, neither the wrist nor the upper arm are capable of pronation.
@@ViolinClassUSA I think this confuses active pronation with passive alignment that appears to be pronation. In our ‘neutral bow hold on the string’ example, the forearm appears pronated because we have lifted our elbow using shoulder rotation, which of course rotates the hand as well. Try it: lift your elbow (upper arm) sideways from your body (abduction) with a limp hand, without activating any muscles in the forearm. Your palm will roughly face the floor, making the forearm appear pronated. However, no pronation has occurred.
Pronation means that the pronation muscles (Pronator Teres, Pronator Quadratus) have been engaged, moving the distal end of the radius over the ulna. This is what happens when we turn a doorknob or use that kind of force to press into the stick. If that hasn't happened, it's not pronation. Interestingly, you can even turn a doorknob using only the muscles around the shoulder-it’s weird but possible. This demonstrates that the same observed effect (e.g., the palm facing the floor) can be achieved through different means.
However to correctly identify the action or motion, we must trace it back to the muscles actually doing the work.
My argument violinistically is that wrist flexion (hand going "down") is a more primary driver of great sound production than pronation. While both movements are distinct, they inevitably work together and both leverage the index finger. However, I believe the emphasis on their roles is often misplaced, with wrist flexion playing a more crucial part in achieving great, effortless sound. Similarly to the "vibrato goes below the pitch" line that great players utter (while not doing what they say in reality) I think many have become convinced that pronating force in the forearm is the primary driver of sound production while in reality the hand and even the index fingers own actions via intrinsic hand muscles is the key.
I'll end with Abram Shtern's advice, which proves some kind of point (not sure what it is):
"1st finger push down, thumb push up."
When will you release the full version?
I didn’t really notice what your contrasts technique was in this post.
It’s difficult to put it into the necessary context without making the video much longer. The idea was this method of playing it slowly as I described, sensitive to certain sensations, before playing it in full tempo. This is meant as a sort of appetizer/quick tip, as I am releasing the whole video soon!
@@DanielKurganov I’ll look forward to it. Slow practice is a staple of good learning and any advice on how to make it more effective will be appreciated.
Of BRAZIL!🇧🇷
Very nice video thank you, may I ask wich e string do you prefer?
Jargar Forte!
Thank you! whose beautiful piece you're playing?
Eduard Lalo