Mother of Oxford High School Shooter Faces Novel Prosecution | Jennifer Crumbley Case Analysis
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- This video answers the question: Can I analyze case of Jennifer Crumbley?
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Breaking news: Mother found guilty of involuntary manslaughter on 4 counts just minutes ago.
How about stop buying guns for 15 year old kids period!!!
Why?
@@KingfishStevens-di9ji give us one good reason why kids should have guns
@@KingfishStevens-di9jicuz they arnt responsible enough clearly!
Cars have an age limit so should guns!
@deltapapashootingexperience What element in the sentence "...buying guns for..." don't you understand?
There are more 15 year olds that can handle fire arms than these outliers like Crumbley . If they are handled by a responsible parent or guardian it really is no problem
Figuratively speaking, Mom and Dad loaded the gun and Ethan pulled the trigger.
Is it figurative? Seems literal.
I disagree with that.
@@kaleblavender6093who cares
@@redlamb You care.
And the school that’s had him every day for years isn’t to be held account at all? What about his bullies? What about the politicians and society that has created an environment that makes him feel like an outsider? How far do we go?
For me, the most SHOCKING part of the entire trial was when she said if she could get a do over, she wouldnt do anything differently! Mind boggling!!! 🤯 Biggest slap in the face for those parents!
Isn't that what the Captain of the Titanic said as it sank beneath him: "If I could do it all over again, I'd still steam through an iceberg field in complete darkness again"...?
I have had waves (ha) of hyper fixation on Titanic and have never heard this. iIRC, his last words heard by a credible witness who survived were basically relieving crew of their duties to save themselves as per the rules of the sea@@craigfinnegan8534
Maybe this was a joke and it went over my head if so I'm sorry (it's the autism) lol
I think she mental too.
@@craigfinnegan8534yes he did !
I was wondering where I'd heard that at.
I think failing to inform the school that he had access to a gun- after seeing the disturbing picture- in addition to ignoring his request for therapy proves that these parents are guilty. This could have been prevented.
I legitimately do not believe they thought that drawing was disturbing. They've been ignoring warning signs for so long, this was just another day at the office. In their minds, the school was completely overreacting. That's why she laughed and said, try not to get caught. it was all a joke to her.
He journaled things but did he actually ask his parents for help? The parents didn’t see the journals so they shouldn’t have been admitted.
@@bethanywhite877she said on the stand she didn’t know about journal but James said they knew he was keeping one in police interview. She ignored the drawings that to most parents would raise many questions. She also failed to share information about the gun or the demons ect with the school.
@@bethanywhite877 Maybe they didn’t see the journal but he wrote that when he asked for therapy he was laughed at.. I believe by his mother.
@@lindseym3810 was he telling the truth?
Everyone who has children in school can read between the lines here. We deal with these types of parents all the time. They don’t care how much damage their precious little babies cause. They resist any attempt to prevent this damage because they are oppositional defiant types themselves. They know all the little gaps in the system and exploit them. They get guns for their kids because they won’t be told what to do. When disaster strikes, they take no responsibility. In years past their kids were just bullies. Now they are often killers.
Lots of assumptions. Good thing you're not on the jury.
Exactly. Ethan pleaded guilty and expressed that he’s a terrible person but his parents are determined to avoid responsibility. When asked, on the stand, if she was a bad mother, Jennifer said “no.” Jennifer texted someone, “We’re fucked.” Guess what, Jennifer: Those 4 dead kids, their families, and your own son are more fucked. Selfish creature. Affair; horses; ski patrol; and whatever the hell that app was for her to satisfy her fetish. Enjoyed 2 Halloween parties while her son was home despondent because plans with his one friend had fallen through. Rrrrr! We’ve all made our mistakes as parents and if we could go back and do better we would. According to Jennifer she wouldn’t change a single thing…
@@motherofcats2712They could’ve suspended him immediately and sent him home.
That’s called narcissism. They’re f’n everywhere.
@@motherofcats2712if it walks and quacks like a duck…
She didn't just have "indications" of mental illness. Ethan was literally asking her for mental help and she ignored it. That in itself is pretty damning.
How do you know he actually asked? He did a video the night before saying sorry to his parents because they trusted him because he made them trust him. He was manipulative and even the school was shocked by him they never thought it would be him. He fooled everyone.
@@sheamccorkle7689and in court he made a statement that he was a liar and had lied to his parents and that it was no one else's fault but his own.
Well she was just found guilty
@@fadedglory1045 exactly that should have been admissible if the journal was that his mom never even saw I’m not sure why it was relevant.
@sheamccorkle7689 Ethan wrote in his journal that he told his mom and she laughed about it. It was read to her during her trial and she confirmed that it took place that way. So the evidence comes straight from her own mouth
If you knew someone was having auditory hallucinations AND visual hallucinations AND tortures animals AND named his pet after a serial killer AND is experiencing insomnia AND is passing out/fainting AND is making drawings saying something along the lines of bloods everywhere the voices won’t stop, AND amnesia. Would you think it’d be a good idea to give that person access to a firearm?
Crazy to even think about it.
Absolutely not!!
The boy needed help and didn't get it. That's where I would find the parents at fault. Being crappy parents is not illegal, and most of the time, the parents of even the most rotten kid still see him as their sweet child. This is just another way of getting more fodder for the profit based prison system.
No question, Jennifer and James failed Ethan on every level.
I total agree. While he was waiting for his trial, he received more attention from the wonderful people in the court system than from his own parents. They were truly trying to help him.
How many parents failed their children? No one could forsee their child being a school shooter.
LOL. The people from the court system are using him to bring on new ways to put people into prison. They don't care about Ethan. @@JoyceJohansen
I am curious. In what ways did the "wonderful people' in the court system help Ethan?@@JoyceJohansen
Ethan had a YT channel. On it he was smiling and playful. He joked around with his parents in the kitchen as they made dinner. They laughed together and teased one another.
SHE WAS FOUND GUILTY AND I AGREE WITH THE JURY!
Yea that’s why females shouldn’t be judges . Too emotional
I can’t believe he was allowed to return to school that day. And not even a search of his bag or locker. It boggles my mind. This could have been prevented 😢
In my opinion, the school failed to supply basic safety to students entrusted to their care. That is gross negligence and the entire system and school should be held equally accountable.
@@takethenextturn8775 Maybe not equally accountable but definitely accountable. This was a massively bad judgment call. There ought to be stricter rules for handling kids who are acting dangerous, and the schools are the first line of defense.
They kept him at the school because they were worried he would commit self-harm if they sent him home. They wanted Jennifer or her husband to come get him to make sure there was an adult with them. Unfortunately Ethan ended up using the gun in other people.
I think both parents were in such a rush to get back to their busy day (horses and fireman waiting etc.) that they could not be bothered about their son and his needs. The saddest part was when they showed his messages to his mom and he asked "can you at least reply to my messages?". How sad for that child.😢
@@Momz0r It's sad, but ultimately he's the murderer. Plenty of people have sucky parents, but they don't go on killing sprees.
buying a gun for child with mental health issues, what could possibly go wrong.
The behavior of both parents was irresponsible and negligent. The mother's texts to her son seemed to make light of serious behaviors that would have been obviously abnormal to most parents.
Exactly. The "learn how to not get caught" is complicity to me.
The school officials were even more stupid than the parents.....
Indeed
@@jeffrey501greenExactly. They should have checked his bag. Ethan himself said he thought that the school was going to find the gun
In the police report the school admitted they said HE WAS NOT A RISK and asked Ethan if he wanted to stay. This is a cover up for the school.
A gun as a gift to a troubled teen is absolutely ridiculous. Or a teen, period.
Play video games but there is no need for a teenager to have their own handgun.
If you buy a gun for your 15 year-old and they kill someone with it, in my opinion you are automatically complicit.
exactly... 15 yo child doesn't need a gun anyway and if he is mentally unstable, it's completely ridiculous to give it to him. This was just overall completely irresponsible and dangerous.
There’s a time and place. This wasn’t it. My brothers got shotguns for Christmas when I was young and they were teens. They went out hunting with my father often and wanted their own guns. When they weren’t hunting they were locked in a gun safe. But for the most part yes you do not need to buy a teenager a gun and this is just absolutely ridiculous given his mental issues
Thankfully the jury was more rational than Dr. Grande this time.
Dr Grande does suggest laws requiring parents to secure firearms. If those laws were in place then I think this conviction would be more logical.
You say this but offer no explanation or examples of the flaws in his rationale 🙄
@@jamais412 I did, but in comments I made when the video was released. I came back and made this comment after the result. If that's inconvenient for you, given that I don't care in the slightest about convincing you you're going to have to cry into your pillow about it.
'Failure to hug' is a pretty dismissive title for this video. Four families will never have the chance to hug their loved ones and the lives of seven additional families have been horrifically altered because of the failures of these parents. You can disagree with the verdict without minimizing the horrors this family and their child inflicted on a community.
@TeaandTacos, I agree. I think he titles them that way to get clicks.
I don't read it that way. I think he's more so just attempting to show that she is to blame because she quite literally didn't even try to do the bare minimum for her child. They're all freaks, her, her husband, and her son. They look like some sort of Texas Chainsaw background actors.
He does seem too flippant in this particular video.
Parents really need to be held accountable in America for their children.
Absolutely
Black parents too?
@@KingfishStevens-di9ji Every parent is responsible for their own child, everywhere
@@KingfishStevens-di9ji it's not a race issue. It's an American issue.
Totally agree for underage children. If there were some criminal statutes related to punishing Parents in some way for their children's actions, I think it would force parents to at least notice and understand their kids more. They need to learn how to be kids Parents NOT friends. Parents are suppose to raise future healthy, happy adjusted adults, not future mental cases.
Why is the right to own guns in the USA more importantant than the right to go to school without the fear of getting shot??
Amen
Exactly!!
Because there's a gun lobby but no school kid lobby.
@@Libbathegreat Sadly true 😪!!
Completely agree. I live in Australia. The 'right to bear arms' is non-existent here. I hope that the US changes the laws someday.
"Failure to Hug" is disrespectful click-bait. You can do better than that. There's an enormous difference between not hugging your son and willfully arming a child that you know to be suffering hallucinations and potentially dangerous. I'm glad that the jury had a less clouded view than yours and did indeed find her guilty on all counts.
Well, tell that to the prosecution who told the mother she should have hugged him lol.
Both parents are guilty of being completely irresponsible for allowing their troubled underage son to have a firearm. That alone should be a law with mandatory prison time , but I doubt it is .
In MA that's exactly what would have happened.
Ok. When do we apply your law theory to black 13 year olds parents 100 times over and over each month?
@@KoopyspappyAdam Lanza murdered his mother before going to shoot up Sandy Hook and his father wasn’t really involved. The huge difference here is Adam was an adult but still, considering his mental health issues, it was irresponsible for him to have access to a firearm however his mother surely paid the price for that when the last thing she saw in this world was the cold, empty eyes of the boy she had brought into the world as he killed her.
@@dhardy6654 Race has nothing to do with the laws. Stop trolling hate speech.
@@KoopyspappyHis mom was his first victim. Also, he was 20 years old. Where do you draw the line?
Prosecutions case in a nutshell:
1) Parents bought a handgun for their minor child. This is 💯 illegal. Period. A crime.
2) Parents failed to lock up the handgun. Negligent. Criminal negligence, based on the laws.
3) Parents did those things whilst knowing their minor child was mentally unstable, prone to violent/destructive outbursts at home, and was abusing alcohol.
4) The parents attempted to flee from law enforcement.
Multiple crimes were committed by the parents that led directly to the murders of 4 kids. The charges against them are valid and independent of their son’s.
Actually buying the gun is not illegal. I thought it was as well and was floored when I actually read the law! They can buy it (he couldn't since not 21) but since he's under 18 he was limited to only being able to use it for target practice at a range, etc. Once 18 I'm not 100% sure how much access he'd get and if it would then officially be his. But as far as Ethan Crumbley being gifted a gun, that wasn't illegal. Also Michigan law didn't require guns to be locked up at that time. They are now (due to that shooting) but at the time it wasn't required. So those 2 laws at least weren't broken.
What trial did you watch? There was absolutely no testimony regarding how Ethan got the gun on the day of the shooting or if it was locked up or not. There was no testimony about violent or destructive outbursts.
Abusing alcohol? Was that in the trial? Fleeing the law was also not proven. You may have read internet comments but clearly not watching the trial on these 2 points
@@TammyD123the gun was not locked up
@@irenegriffin3050he wasn't taking the gun to a range. He had the gun illegally
These parents Chose to not pay attention to their troubled teen . Mom was an alcoholic. And they bought him a gun…. What could go wrong 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
Well, the jury just announced their verdict...GUILTY
bad verdict...
As a parent myself, these parents make me sick.
Both parents are responsible for securing firearms and ammunition in their house.
Michigan has no law for securing weapons in the home.
I di not think the prosecution ever actually proved the gun was not locked up. They inferred it. They inferred a whole lot of things. But evidence of it. Not so much
@@susiecredeur6969well, they didn't before, but that's changing as of this year. Look it up, they're finally bringing in new legislation.
From my understanding the gun was put in a secure spot but Ethan was able to find the gun as well as the ammunition. The problem for the prosecution is that they never put in evidence that tells How Ethan was able to get the secure gun. It’s possible that the parents put the gun in a place that they believe to be secured only for Ethan to search out said gun, and find said gun without the parents even knowing.
@@linkjourney422 They said it was in dads nightstand drawer. The other two were locked in a safe
I'm glad Dr. Grande wasn't on the jury. She deserved to be found guilty.
As soon as she heard there was a shooting she immediately knew it was her son. I think that shows she knew what her son was capable of.
You pointed out some explanations. Explanations do not exclude negligence. She knew her son had several significant loses, was more socially isolated, wasn’t doing his homework, and then…THAT drawing with those words! Cumulative information was held by Mom. She was not required to go back to work. She was negligent in getting an immediate assessment of her son’s wellness based on all she knew and the counselors strong recommendation. She was grossly negligent.
nah, his parents are both guilty. they neglected a serious mental health problem in their child and laughed it off even with evidence showing his potential violence. they then buy an unstable child a gun and he carries it around in his backpack. the parents are informed of issues at school and again they shrug it off and return to horse riding and cheating. the house sounded lonely with a significant amount of child neglect. they gave the kid the murder weapon knowing he was nuts. the blood of all those people are on that families hands.
🎯
yeah this is actually the first time i heavily disagreed with his analysis.
@@1120TaylorLautner same! He’s usually spot on, but it’s very clear he didn’t watch the case if he thinks that the affair was the major case cracker. That the affair wasn’t even supposed to be admitted at all in the trial, it is decided the last minute they wanted to call the boyfriend as a witness because the mother had been texting him in the two hours between the time she met with the school the time the son did it
@@1120TaylorLautnerYeah, and I take a lot of issue with the point that they're holding her to a higher standard than the professionals (the counselors) who cleared him. The counselors observed him for several minutes, maybe an hour, but she lived with him and knew about the gun. She was working off much more information than they were.
Guilty on all counts of involuntary manslaughter. The father doesn't stand a chance.
I think both parents should be held accountable.
Both parents are responsible 100 💯👍 Percent
Nope
@jaspajones7045 go on, why not...
Let's take a look shall we...
She lied repeatedly to avoid having her kid removed from school or to get him seen.
She was too busy getting her rocks off with her affair fella.
🎯
@@killerrabbit2693 don’t forget these parents Chose to buy their troubled teen son a gun. And mom was at least earlier on in life a Full on alcoholic
@@jaspajones7045 Don’t be stupid. The combination of what he drew/wrote and his plausible access to a gun is all she needed to know in order to understand that Ethan was extremely dangerous.
She obviously wasn’t certain that the gun was secured, since she lied about its whereabouts. She therefore knew that it was well within the realms of possibility that Ethan could have got it.
Maybe mom should have taken his mental health seriously. Maybe mom should have mentioned the gun to the school…
This kid had never been in trouble, young boys say all kinds of crazy stuff.
@@KingfishStevens-di9jiof course you know all about young boys
mental health professionals said he was okay
@@acmartialarts2227 yes I was one for many years, you'll grow up someday kid.
@@KingfishStevens-di9ji He tortured birds at his house and kept the head of one in a glass jar, he was drinking heavily at home, and he was having scary hallucinations. This was NOT a "boys will be boys" scenario. He was seriously disturbed.
Don't agree with you Dr Grande, he was texting them saying he needed help and wanted someone to come home with him, begging for his mother to at least text him back, he sent her 30 something texts and she ignored every one but had her phone out taking selfies of her on her horse at the same time he was texting her. With the state of how things have been going with kids, its time parents be held accountable for the lack of parenting they do
She was just found guilty on all 4 counts.
I can’t get past the parents looking at the blueprints to his plan to murder and did not take immediate action.. to get him the mental health care he’s needed for a while. They gave him a gun knowing he was a very troubled boy and had hallucinations/ severe depression. If she cared half as much about Ethan as she did her horses.. things could have been different.
I believe one of the reasons (not the only one) was that she did not want to spend the money for mental health counseling. She did not even have him on her insurance plan.
Instead of intensive therapy and medication they got him a gun and took him to target practice. The parents seem to have zero concern for what was going on with their son and innocent people paid for their negligence with their lives.
I guess the jury did not agree with Dr. Grande
He's overthinking it. It's a commonsense case. He always seems to side with gunowners.
Mom was just found guilty of 4 counts of involuntary manslaughter.
Blatant negligence in my opinion
mental health professionals said he was okay
. Kids say crazy random things, its part of growing up and maturing
You mean the school counsellor who feared he was suicidal? @@KingfishStevens-di9ji
@@KingfishStevens-di9ji They did NOT say he was okay. They recommended therapy within 48 hours, and they didn't even know about his hallucinations or his gun.
@@nightwithoutstars9415 They did, and the school took no action. Why aren't school faculty being charged?
Do you think if he talked to a therapist for an hour this all wouldn't have happened?@@nightwithoutstars9415
I feel she is responsible for not securing that firearm. She should have been charged w negligence at least. But nothing? I disagree with you on this one. She knew he had that gun . Why would she even allow him to have a gun. Same for the father. They were negligent and helped cause this.
And they never told the school about the gun, if they had, the back pack would've been searched....gross negligence
You need the evidence, there was very little.
She was found GUILTY, so they got it right.
@@melvynobrien6193 no she was not charged with anything.
Crazy that Jennifer knew they had a powerful weapon, didn’t know where it was and was called into the school because there was something wrong that might very easily involve their gun and didn’t even think it might be a good idea to check in his bag.
I think she discovered the gun missing after the school visit. And she said multiple times that the gun/shooting were a thing between the child and father. She probably paid no attention to it.
sorry, doc. guilty on all counts!
That isn't the testimony. The counselor testified that he felt he was a danger to himself and they were required to get mental health care ASAP. The suggestion was that day.
😮
Wrong. The parents were given 48 hours to get him mental help. Even if they did get him mental help it is no guarantee that the school shooting wouldn't have happened.
The counselor didn't say Ethan should not remain in school that day.
A few years ago, a second-grader chewed a PopTart into the shape of a gun, and the school suspended him for 2 days.
There is a place between gross overreaction and ignoring obvious warning signs that a school should be able to achieve.
The councilor was inconsistent in his testimony. The final thing he said during cross was that he thought it would be good for him to stay at school and be among peers.
There are text messages from Ethan to his mother when he was home alone seeing and hearing things, begging her to come home. Those texts went unanswered, and evidence was shown in court of Jennifer sitting on her horse just moments after Ethan’s texts.
She also laughed at him when he asked her for help later. She chose to look the other way when he was drinking, too. I heard on News Nation that the parents locked Ethan out of the residence the night before the shooting because he was having hallucinations. I think the parents just didn't want to be bothered with him, so that's why they left him at school instead of taking him home the day of the shooting.
@@nightwithoutstars9415$$$ they Had no insurance on him it would be out of pocket and mental illness treatment is verrrrry expensive. That was their reason for ignoring. Freaking narcissists who valued the horses mire
That's because it was an ongoing joke .. she saw him close the door he was saying was closing by itself.
@fadedglory1045 she lied. It was actually being of his psychotic break. He tried to get help. Once it was blown he was writing his writings and video taping what he would do. By then it was too late.
The Jury did a good job. She is a TERRIBLE mother.
which has nothing to do with the charge being appropriate...it will be overturned, believe that. 2A lawyers have been tearing it apart.
Millions of people are bad parents. That doesnt make them responsibile for their childrens crimes. This is an injustice
Well that's stating the obvious. As horrible as this is, it's cases like this that save lives by bringing attention to parents who push firearms onto minors. I personally think it's messed up to push handguns onto minors. Hunting rifles and shotguns, fine but pistols? Are teenagers half-crazed by hormones, brain development, and social media? If you're that much of a gun nut that you need to indoctrinate your child into handgun worship, what they do with it should be 100% your responsibility.
@@SuiGenerisMan I'd like to see the empirical evidence it saves lives to overcharge and make a political example of defendants. I also like how anti-gun people take this stand now, but never would they be in favor overcharging or politically prosecuting anyone for any others laws.
But being a terrible mother isnt a crime. And I agree she was a horrible mother. But legally speaking, she didn't commit a crime.
Guilty - did they gifted their son a gun ? Yes!
Did they ensure he was mentally and emotionally stable to have such an item? No!
Is a gun a tool like a knife ? No!
Did they ensure he did not have access to bullets? Did they ensure he did not have unsupervised access to the gun? No!
she is guilty. but a gun is a tool, like a knife. the issue i see is you dont gift a child a gun, and just let them carry it. my children have guns, but they arent allowed to just carry them. they dont even get access to them until i take them to the range, and after when i they clean them. letting him just carry it, and take it too school is highly irresponsible.
@@ThatZenkiS14I guess you could say a gun is a tool for killing living beings and possibly target shooting
@@ThatZenkiS14A knife has many uses. A gun is for killing, which they do much more easily and quickly than a knife does. When the number one cause of death in US children is by guns, you know your country has a problem.
@@ThatZenkiS14 anything that is not our hands are tools. With that being said it is not like a knife which is not always used to injure or kill someone.Hence it is a weapon or tool of destruction destruction!
@@LYVwithLYN that analogy is the reason i said that, guns are not always used to kill/injure other people. that is one use for sure, however they also use for hunting. they are used for just sport, which would be mainly target shooting, skeet shooting etc. even when you buy one for self defense its still a high likely hood that you never actually use it for that purpose, or you only ever use it at the range. instead in that situation it mainly gives you just peace of mind.
the guns that come to mind as actual weapons of destruction. would things like the 50 cal barrett, any vehicle mounted machine gun, or hand carry lmg. as they have no other practical use but to inflict as much harm and damage to people and property. but we cant own those anyway, which do not think is a bad thing.
but to me thats just like a knife, considering its main use was for hunting, and protection and as an eating utensil.
i dislike that we as black people, mainly see it as just a weapon to do harm. even though i completely understand why. it use to be a tool we used to protect our neighborhoods. however due to poverty, it because simply a tool to kill. its for that reason ive taught my children how to shoot, and respect firearms. they see the as tools for sport, instead of a gangster accessory. any talk of using it towards people is discouraged by me, until they get older then ill teach them the self defense side of it.
if more of us as humans taught our kids that way, and monitored them. keep stuff out of their reach, i believe the mindset would change and people would do more thinking that reacting.
These parents failed this child horribly. They are as guilty as if they held the gun and committed the murders themselves. I feel the charges should be a lot harsher.
How is ignoring his mental state, not gross negligence...? They never told the school they had bought him a new gun at that last school meeting, even if she thought he was suicidal not about to commit homicide, she should've questioned where the gun was at that time. She had the pieces to the puzzle, and the school did not. To me, putting aside all of the information given to discredit her, she had a responsibility to her son to make sure he was safe given the drawing he drew that morning. She did not even question the where abouts of that gun. BAM, guilty! That would be my vote as a juror.
This is so sad for the 15 year old child who will become an adult in prison.
Glad you're not a juror then. It's not illegal for them to buy their kid a gun even tho it should be that's congresses fault for having terrible gun laws. And the mental health professionals didn't see it so how was she? She's a bad parent but you can't just convict someone based on laws that should be in place but aren't.
The decision of guilt needs to be based on laws, not your personal morals. People can be morally responsible for things they are not legally responsible for.
Like they said, even the professionals didnt see it so why expect her to? Imo that sets a bad precedent if we expect every parent to be a mental health expert and also have the money for therapy for their kids.
Maybe she got him a gun for a reason.
Hey some folks mess up and cover up instead of man up.
I feel bad for the fact that this child was shaped by these people . He was very much crying out for help . The only help he got from his parents was help that moved him closer to destroying multiple lives including his own.
And she is guilty .
I think the part about professionals not noticing anything is a bit absurd: they took the drawing pretty seriously (for a drawing or whatever it was) and if they had information she had about him hearing voices and having a gun, they would certainly be alerted. Both parents deliberately hid these facts from them.
@carnifaxx, I agree. Had Jennifer Crumbley been upfront with the school about Ethan's drinking and her husband medicating him with drugs and their decision to leave guns laying around, the school probably would've called CPS on her.
"school shootings are low probability events". There were 38 school shootings in 2023 and 51 in 2022. Close to once a week.
38 out of 115,000 schools in the country.
Dr. Grande, you said that mental health pros couldn't tell he needed immediate help, and therefore his parents shouldn't be held to a higher standard than those professionals. What you're forgetting is that his parents had access to information that the school counselor and administrators did NOT have. The parents KNEW there were guns at home. They also KNEW he had a history of hallucinations and they had locked him out of the residence the evening before the shooting because he was having hallucinations. The school also didn't know that Ethan had a drinking problem and that the parents were giving him drugs at home. Had they known all this, they probably would've just called CPS to handle it. Don't know how the jury will decide, but I hope they find her guilty. I think you're overall wrong about her in this case, Dr. G., and you were wrong about the George Zimmerman case, too.
Such an underrated comment! I wish I could give you a thousand likes.
If they are charging him as an adult, how the fuck is she responsible? It’s literally one or the other
@@pigs6486daaaaaaamn I haven’t even considered that angle… how tf can they even be saying “he’s your responsibility due to his age obviously” and at the same time, “due to his age he is old enough to be held responsible as an adult would and pay with consequences similar to what an adult would obviously” sounds like we just have a deep incarceration problem going on in America. Wonder why we have more people incarcerated than any other country on earth by a vast vast margin. It’s because everyone they get in their courtrooms has to pay money in the end. It’s our most successful business in America hundreds of years running.
@@pigs6486if you give an adult raving lunatic on a street a gun and then he does a mass shooting, you think you bear no responsibility?
they locked him out of the house because he was having hallucinations?!!! OMG that's sick!!! What the hell!
I'm so glad Dr. Grande was wrong about his "no guilty" assessment on this case.
I'm glad they found her guilty. Coming from someone who's parents had no desire to be involved in raising her, I can tell you that it's important for parents to pay attention.
A parent is responsible for their child, period. These 2 "parents" ran for a reason, they knew they had F'd up royally and 4 were dead.
If that gun hadn't been bought and made available, no one would be dead. BOTH parents are responsible, its their kid.
The school not searching the back pack..............FFS what would it have cost? Or the parent searching it.........
Too much hopeless stupidity and non caring.
He totally should've been searched.
I've watched the entire trial. The jury asked a question today whether they can take Ethan's account of what happened into account. The judge said no because Ethan did not appear at his mom's trail as a witness. That is troublesome to me as far as a guilty verdict goes. I am almost sure that out of 12 people, at least one will have reasonable doubt. I vote that Jennifer IS GUILTY. Just seeing her demeanor, hearing her flippant answer of "I wouldn't do anything differently", leads me to believe she is a self centered, narcissistic person who doesn't really care about anyone but herself and her needs. Ethan asked for help numerous times (not directly) and IF you were a parent paying attention, you would have seen it. I feel bad for Ethan as so many people failed him, and the tragedy of the Crumbley family caused the death of 4 innocent people. It's time that we really look into the family of these damn school shooters and start holding people accountable who should be doing their job properly!! The school is partly responsible too imo....
How in the World did these two parents allow this clearly disturbed young person to have such a deadly weapon. This mother was only concerned with her horses, and affair. She and her husband hired a private attorney but allowed their son to be represented by assigned counsel. She didn't even have this boy on her medical insurance while spending 20K on her horses. They failed to secure the firearm and fled. What more do you need to hear, other than that She testified that she would not have done anything differently. Enough with these people and their guns
Yes saying she wouldn’t do anything differently is bizarre - I didn’t think the jury would like that. She came across completely unlikeable and dishonest
How did the school not send him home or check his bag. ? Really? Why were they not terrified of that picture?
Well said. It's horrifically negligent. I am devastated for the innocent dead but I don't believe the child, 15 at the time, should be put away without any hope of parole, he needs to be in a psychiatric facility for many years with doctors helping to erase the damage his parents have done. There are many child victims in this case, the parents and school are responsible and we need to either ban guns or insist in parental accountability and give schools way more power and security. We guard banks a million times better than we guard our kids and that's a sad indictment of how we got here.
Failure to HUG??? Failure to respond to the needs of a little boy whom she, basically, abandoned: left him until late at night - most nights, failure to respond to his pleas for her to come home because it was dark and late and he was alone and afraid. All because she was obsessed with her affair and her hobby, horses. Son was not the perpetrator, he was her victim. I sincerely believe she purchased gun in hopes he would commit suicide. What parent fleas when their 15-year old son was in serious trouble.
This attitude right here is why this country is going down the shitter. The psycho who shot up at school is at fault. Not his parents or anyone else. Unbelievable that so many people actually genuinely feel this way. It’s sad tbh. People these days look to place blame anywhere other than the evil person that actually committed the heinous crime. Blaming shit like parents, institutional racism, “mental health”, etc are all cop outs for people afraid to face the fact that there are just bad eggs out there and there’s really nothing that can be done about it.
@@nickbk4418yes but this was a literal child whose brain is not near fully formed. The parents’ brains are fully formed. They do hold accountability whether one thinks they should be found guilty or not. While he is responsible wholly for the shooting itself, they fed into it. They facilitated the environment for this crime and failed to take seriously what Ethan seemed to know was very serious. With the way things are these days, parents need to stop thinking “it could never happen to me” and understand that no one is exempt from life’s atrocities. We are in the shitter because immature, degenerates are having kids and we as a society do not take child rearing more seriously.
@@nickbk4418. “psychopaths” as you say, are born with different brains biologically, but their brains are only activated into things like violence and hatred of others due to their environments. So the lesson here is be nice to kids, trust them if they say something is wrong, and don’t activate their psychopathic rage.
She was grossly negligent and is guilty.
Guilty of being a bad parent yes. But since there's not laws restricting kids gun access in the house she's not guilty of manslaughter
Wrong. Not Guilty.
@@julianjolts5050they bought a minor a weapon enough said
@@julianjolts5050 there are laws restricting children's access to weapons.
@@julianjolts5050 there are also laws restricting adult's access to weapons.
I personally knew four of the victims out of 10 from the Santa Fe high School shooting in texas. I am just lucky enough to have gone to church with them. This is the second time I have known someone in a mass shooting event as I knew a survivor from a grocery store shooting in Las Vegas several years earlier. In the case of Santa Fe the parents are doing everything they can to keep their son in a mental institution instead of facing justice. They need to be held accountable for their weapons being used in the murder of others yet, NO JUSTICE!
There will be a Time in America where everybody knows somebody who has been a victim of a mass shooting!
This is 💔!!! I am SO sorry for your loss and trauma!!! 😭
Damn, that’s horrible.
Thankfully though the Santa Fe shooter isn’t ever going to be released though
@@RB01.10 let's hope not... For those of us who live here we know that he was in his right mind prior to the incident with no mention of mental illness and now he is feigning insanity and unable to coherently speak to legal officials. It angers many of us that he is sitting up nice and cozy eating zoom zooms and wham whams while others continue to mourn and wait for justice.
She told the Court that after the fight on 29th November over his grades that they took his phone away - not true - then she said “I know we took the shooting range away and we took his gun away (!)”. Then denied saying they took the gun away. Her son told the judge at his trial that he gave his father money to buy him the gun and that the gun was easily accessible - contradicting his parents' claims that the gun was securely stored. "It was not locked," Ethan Crumbley said in court.
These parents failed Ethan terribly. He begged for help and now 4 people are dead and his life is basically over. I find it difficult to hold parents responsible for children's actions but in this case they could have prevented this and helped Ethan get mental help.
It will be interesting to watch the trial of James, the father who bought his son the gun.
I'll be interested if they don't drop his charges if she's found not guilty.
Jennifer bought the bullets though
@@SuzeeQueinOH big deal. I own several firearms and they're not locked away. I keep them accessible. Never an issue.
@@KingfishStevens-di9jido you have a deranged homicidal teenager living with you?
@@KingfishStevens-di9ji Do any of your children experience delusions, assuming you have any and if so, do you think it's ok for an unstable child to have access to your firearms?
I think she’s guilty because there were plenty of warning signs and they refused to take him home. The school should’ve done better and checked his backpack and referred him for emotional behavioral testing although the parents probably wouldn’t have consented.
Thankfully twelve Michigan jurors disagree.
We should not trivialize negligence. Look at the lives it has taken.
She didn't have time to worry about what was going on in her sons life. She was too busy servicing her boyfriend to take care of her kid!
Many married people have affairs. Doesn't mean you know your kids gonna kill anyone. She def is negligent as a parent. But not involuntary manslaughter.
Servicing her boyfreind🙄. Wow.
And taking care of her horses.
@@denisehoose5162i feel like if this was a man or she was black/brown you would be singing a completely different tune
@@poindextertunes yup
Doc. There were 340 school shootings in 2023. Where did you get the idea that they are uncommon?
Have you ever heard of math?
wildly misrepresented. You've fallen for the media drama.
I was 17 when Columbine happened. Same age as the perpetrators. I am neurodivergent with severe mental health conditions but I have always lived in countries with strict gun laws. The more things change the more they stay the same. Later in life, I found out about Brenda Spencer who shot up the Grover Cleveland Elementary school in 1979 in San Diego. I don't like Mondays either. I tend to stay home in bed on Mondays away from people. All I know is that people keep shooting up schools, colleges and universities in America.
@@cliffthecoolcat Math? OK. Doing the math... they might be uncommon in Europe. But _not_ the good 'ole USA.
@@mvpfocus Dr. Grande is in the. US and uses standard US math.
They not only failed but they were complicit!
He had 90 drawings if guns on schoolassignments in his backpack alone, there where texts and journalentries and he at least one night Was so "worked up" that JC gave him Melatonin and he slept in their bed... I can't believe she knew nothing about his mental struggles.
In my eyes she knew and ignored it willfully
His pictures weren’t enough to make anyone think he had a mental problem? The text was fairly telling, though.
You must’ve forgot childhood but I remember a lot of weird looking kids as a kid. They’re growing and they won’t look the same as adults
That drawing on the math worksheet was so alarming I don’t know how anyone wasn’t afraid for Ethan’s mental health.. a gun “blood everywhere” a drawing of a man w holes and blood coming out. He practically showed them all his plans for that afternoon.
Judging a book by its cover? You gotta be a god fearing christian. Amirite??
@@shitmandood exactly too many ''adults' er people of adult age try to evaluate children as grown ups. They're kids, they're unpredictable.
Yip Ethan don't do it....sent from mom after the fact
Bro, you are out of your mind. How tf do you see a drawing depicting murder with the weapon you bought him and not actually mention that weapon to anyone? It is disingenuous to say that this prosecution just willy nilly "opens the door to prosecute parents" when we both know that the circumstances in this case are fairly unique in their degree of gross negligence. The threat of violence was more than reasonably foreseeable. Why didn't you mention that if the school knew about his access to a weapon, they certainly would have treated the situation differently.
Think about it -
Boy recently gets gun. -
Boy draws a picture him using said gun to murder people. - family insists he stay, doesn't mention said gun.
Same day boy murders people with gun.
It's not rocket science Todd.
@Chrispycryptic, Amen. I hear ya. Totally agree.
I think that the good doctor should have put off posting about this case as he made during jury deliberations. She has now been found guilty. I guess a follow up might be appropriate.
Basically this 'mother' took better care of her horses than her own son. If, after the gift of hindsight, she wouldn't do anything differently only proves that she was negligent. There were several instances where she could have intervened and changed the outcome of this act of murder.
Exactly. This is the one school shooting that pretty clearly was preventable.
I think she hoped (even subconsciously) that he'd shoot himself when they left the gun unsecured. A weird kid who was an inconvenience.
Now look doc. I agree with you that this may not meet the IM charge, but there is no question both parents have responsibility. He is under age, they gifted him a weapon illegally, They were too busy to be bothered with him or his toys, They ran, ...... Good grief.....do u really think they have no resposability for their child at All????? I'm not saying she needs to go to jail for murder, but the parents were complicit. There has to be some repercussion for that. A lot of people are too busy to parent properly. They need to know if is imperative they seek help if they are unequiped or uninterested.
I know, right? Why should we be concerned if the burden of proof was not met? A message has been sent! A scapegoat has been identified!
Now be very careful in everything you do.
Where there’s smoke there’s fire, a child left to his own devices needing professional help and the unconditional love from the parents which was considerably lacking 🌵
The psychiatrist in Ethan’s trial stated that Ethan was emotionally a feral child, due to his parents exceptional emotional neglect
Parents need to be held responsible for allowing children to have any access to firearms. Maybe next time you’ll think twice before you buy a gun. Take accountability for the good and the bad.
Yeah hide all sharp objects, hide flammable liquids, car keys etc. No way anyone can predict what a 15 year old boy is going to do. I'd bet my left one this kid was a habitual video gamer.
@@KingfishStevens-di9ji ... I don't think sharp objects or poisons or etc was the issue,, A FREAKIN PISTOL was the issue and what kind of parents buy a 15 year old kid a gun? Maybe if the family lives out in the country and it's a .22 rifle or a .410 shotgun, that sounds logical but buying a kid a pistol when they live in town is simply stupid....
@@KingfishStevens-di9ji I've played video games my whole life and never once attempted to kill someone, because I was taught to respect the consequences of my actions.
@@micnorton9487 I owned a 16 gauge shotgun at 13 years old, there are youths that attend shooting groups hunt clubs ya know? A 410 shotgun is far deadlier than most pistol rounds. A 22 rifle is deadlier than a 25 or 32 caliber pistol.
@@illeagle9560 These video games are far too violent for children. Violence in violence out. Some children have a hard time distinguishing fantasy from reality.
While I'm not sure I stand on charging the parents with involuntary manslaughter, I can agree with charges against parents when their underage children commit crimes with easily accessible guns. They were definitely NOT great parents, and DO have some responsibility over this tragedy, but am still out on the involuntary manslaughter. That said, testifying in her own defense likely screwed her; that almost always goes against the defendant.
Myself and many kids were raised in a home with easily accessible firearms, never an issue. This kid was sick and nobody realized how sick, even mental health professionals said he was okay
@@KingfishStevens-di9ji😂😂😂😂😂😂 you think the world is like when you were a kid?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@KingfishStevens-di9ji the counselor at the school thought he had suicidal ideation. What mental health professionals do you speak of?
Testifying was definitely a mistake. She's a very unlikable person. Whether or not it's right to be judged on how likable you are, it's a fact of life.
@@poindextertunes Many kids are raised in households with firearms, to this very day.
I’m so glad you were wrong on your view of the verdict. I did watch all of the trial. Thanks for all of your analyses.
How many parents at that school texted their kid "don't do it" when they heard there was a shooting...one. They knew
Even if the jury comes back non guilty or mistrial- the face that Jennifer Crumbley has already suffered so many consequences makes me feel that some justice has been served. She will have a hard time working again. making friends, losing the 100+ lbs she gained and she has practically lost her relationship with her son. (maybe she doesnt care about that one) So, there is a silver lining as this huge change of lifestyle for Jennifer MAY cause other parents to think twice about how they store their firearms
She can be sued civally too
Sadly you don't know life in the US. If she walks she will be a HERO to every gun nut raising the next Adam Lambert. If she loses, she will be the next cause celeb from prison bc that WITCH will never blame anyone for her fate but EARTH. So we will ALLL hear from her... smfh. We live in a strange timelines. 😢😮
She was found guilty for the four deaths .
@@mrwdpkr5851 Nice 👌
Yeah I'm sure that will go over well with the families of the victims who died because of her actions
Hi Dr. Grande. We need to agree to disagree. As an LCSW, I feel that the verdict is correct because Ethan
states that he asked his parents for help in his journal. No, they had no idea what he was going to do - but he DID ask for help and instead of getting their son help - they purchased him a weapon days before the shooting. I say GUILTY.
And for me the verdict is total bulshit. She was find guilty of involuntary manslaughter, but she did'nt do anything to kill that teenagers. It was her son who kill tehm. Of course she neglected her child, didn't secure the gun properly, ignore the school, and meny otehr mistakes, but she didn't kill anyone.
@sessionswithsharo
LPC totally guilty and many in this community dropped the ball. Not the school but many others where are the grandparents and the family unit my heart breaks for Ethan and the families of the victims
If I were on a jury, the problem that I think I would have is that she texted the firefighter that she thought her son was going to do something dumb. The firefighter asked where the firearm was, and rather than actually securing it (or having her husband do so), she lied about where it was. To me, that says she had a reasonable expectation that something bad was about to happen, but failed to do anything about it.
SHE WAS FOUND GUILTY!
Grande...A parent who either BUYS a gun for a minor or leaves their weapons UNSECURED should ABSOLUTELY be prosecuted as if they pulled the trigger! You need to get in the real world on this one.🤔👊🏿
Wow. I grew up in the 80's. My dads revolver was in his closet. My brother and I knew where it was. We didn't kill anyone.
Many parents take their kids to the gun range and/or hunting. No one can read their kids minds. When a teenager commits suicide should the parents be held accountable for murder?
@@angiejorah I was in H.S. in the '80's and the school parking lot was full of trucks with guns in 'em and we didn't have any shootings either. All those guns belonged to MINORS.
@@angiejorah Wow. Do you have mental health problems that would make you want to use the gun to shoot up a school? If not, don't compare yourself to Ethan. Calm down. No one is coming for your gun. We want accountability for those who are negligent with theirs.
@@angiejorah No need to read Ethan's mind. He drew them a picture after telling them he was hallucinating.
She’s guilty. She had additional info on his risk level, was negligent
It's illegal to buy a 15 yr old a firearm & they bought it for him for Christmas. Her bf told her day of it wasn't safe for her to have it in her car aft drawing. She never checked/tried to secure it
As a foreigner I wish I could understand why this phenomenon is so common in the US like in no other country. I hope you can make a video analyzing that! For example, I live in Chile in South America and there’s also a lot of mental health problems. But the difference is that here people tend to attempt against their own life not against others in those situations, not massively and specially not kids. I’ve thought that maybe the amount of media attention that logically these type of tragedies attract somehow “popularize” or opens this type of response as an option? Maybe there’s a very profound need for attention that these kids think the media response will fill? There also seems to be a lot of anger associated with the school system? Is it cultural or race related? I just cant wrap my head around the reason behind WHY a massive shooting becomes an option to cope or as a respond to mental health problems.
It is also not like in the U.S. here in Germany - I'm sure it's because of our gun laws. Are Chile's gun laws more comparable to the U.S. or Germany/Europe, do you know?
The USA has no gun laws. So you have these people having no respect for the fact that guns are a dangerous weapons. I once spoke to someone from Tennessee, and she said she knew someone who was gifted an AR-15 for helping his buddy move. No need to sign paperwork, get certified for gun safety, or take a course. They just hand out these things like candy in the USA and that disturbs me.
The US has twice as many guns in private hands as there are people. Gun culture is glorified and our laws are overly permissive. It makes things like this tragically inevitable. Yes, mental health is also sorely neglected, but that's the case in many countries.
It's cultural. Americans love their g*uns more than they love their children. They'd rather offer their 'thoughts and prayers" rather than simply put their weapons down.
She is guilty AF. If she’s acquitted, then this jury needs to be a tad more educated.
Mean
No, no she’s not you can’t let anger over a situation influence you as a juror. She’s guilty of being a shitty mom, the only way I’d say she was guilty is if there was proof he said to her he was going to shoot up the school and she did nothing nor notify anyone regarding the matter or encouraged the behavior, that’s not the case the school and his parents failed him but he did the action and she wasn’t aware of how dangerous he really was or how ill he really was.
The mother commented 100% involuntary manslaughter, also! She KNEW her child was seeing ghosts and hearing stuff, and yet she did not take this seriously. She seems to have a very flipping attitude about other children being killed.
and your comment, committed involuntary manslaughter on grammar...maybe its just your flippant attitude
flippant?
@@poindextertunes look it up
Every kid that has ever lived at one point or another has thought they saw a ghost
If Ethan was hearing voices, why is he not in a psych ward? Something like that just doesn't go away.
If the parents are not found guilty. The families of the victims should sue them both for wrongful deaths.
James and Jennifer ain't got a pot to piss in, so the families wouldn't get any money.
Both parents should DEFINITELY go to jail!🔒
Dr. Grande,
I am from Michigan and I've watched this whole trial. I have been waiting for you to do this one. It's a tough one, and precedent setting as well. I predict it will be a hung jury / mistrial.
Thank you for this one!
Love from Canada
Not tough at all, the parents are being railroaded. No way can you predict what a 15 year old boy is going to do. I was one, if my parents knew 1/4th the stuff that I did, I would have been in trouble. He drew a disturbing picture, Many kids do. Big deal. This was absolutely unpredictable.
@@KingfishStevens-di9ji I think the words HELP ME and BLOOD EVERYWHERE .with a drawing of a person with gunshot wounds was a fairly good indication something terrible was going to happen without intervention...and it did. They may not have known the exact course events would take but they had ample warning, they were just too preoccupied with their own lives they couldn't let an inconvenience like their son's mental health get in the way.
He also begged for help asking to go to hospital or therapist and they didn't take him seriously. Infact, she laughed at him and his dad gave him pills and told him to suck it up. They left him alone in the house when he was littler, like 8, 9 while they went bar hopping. They told him if there was an emergency to go to the neighbors and use their phone. He was neglected his whole life most likely.
What i wanted to ask the parents was why they got him the gun? Were they gun collectors? Did they have other guns apart from this one? If not, why suddenly buy one?
Plus their son was seeing things and they shrugged it off as pranks. He was asking for help for a while but wasn't taken seriously.
This was so preventable
I think the manager of the gun shop verified the purchase of 4 different guns. I believe they were separate perchases, but I'm not sure over how much time.
Guilty on all 4 counts of involuntary manslaughter.
This time I have to disagree. After seeing Dr.G Explains (YT channel), (psychologist & body language expert) how Jennifer Crumbley sat back,leisurely when she & her husband were talking w/police about what their son had done. The father put his head in his hands & looked genuinely broken, upset, sorry. JC, on the other hand, sat back, texting !! And , on the stand, when asked if she'd do anything differently, unbelieveably, she casually replied "No, I wouldn't." NO?!?! If you had a chance to do something different so things wouldn't have turned out the way they did, you wouldn't ???
She shot herself in the foot w/that statement.She ignored pleas for help from her son.