A really great experience wandering thru this place . Self guided tours are only $10 and well worth it . Did you see yesterday's video ? ruclips.net/video/lMSfzmYlqpA/видео.html
TheDailyWoo I do get the notices. Just almost always half an hour to almost late in my place. I just end up refreshing your channel when I get the chance
NOLADEEJ mine too I went to the 25th anniversary and met quite a few of the actors and stand ins truly a life-changing experience Tim robbins and morgan freeman did not attend the event
My grandma had a heart attack in her office on her desk in that prison, she worked there 27yrs. I would never step foot in there..thanks Adam for showing me what it looks like. I live an hour from Mansfield in columbus. Beautiful place in the summer.
Ah, my old stomping grounds. I actually had something turning a light on and off on request in one cell, and - in the upstairs sick room- my group witnessed a figure breaking a flashlight beam that had been placed on the ground and shined across the floor. Amazing location.
When I walk those cells you still don’t feel safe. I was still thinking, ok these bars are not going to hold if I trip and fall. Great place and during October gets turned into a haunt too.
I have several friends that worked there , back in the '70s. The movie was very tame in comparison to the stories told to me, and what I remember reading in the paper.
ADAM I LITERALLY LIVED RIGHT UP THE ROAD FROM THERE. Mansfield is my home town!!!!! i want to cry right now this is so amazing!!!!! i lived there for 18 years of my life!!!!! i’m so happy! 😭😭😭
The level of detail and quality craftsmanship found in historic buildings constructed for societies "less than desirable" individuals, never ceases to amaze me. Unfortunately, most of these architectural gems are vanishing from the landscape. Instead of preservation or repurposing, they're bulldozed. All in the name of progress. (Ex: Kirkbride state hospitals)
OSR was set to be bulldozed as well. Then Castle Rock decided to film Shawshank there. The wrecking ball was there ready to go when they rolled up the start filming.
I was here in 1983 as a young man, and it was worse than you can think. It was around x mas and the cell house did not have any heat, you could see your breath in your cell. But for the bug dust and thats what we called it, he was cigarette tobacco , they gave you one a month. Craziest place iv ever had to stay .
Why is it whenever I watch a new Woo vid I automatically give it a thumbs up before watching? Oh that's right,it's because no one,and I mean NO ONE does vlogs better than Adam the Woo!!!
@@Parakeet2008 They have ghost tours there around October every year. They do them all at night but it doesn't need to be dark to experience the paranormal. I was nearly pushed down a set of steps going to the ground floor and when I turned around to cuss out my brother, no one was there and my brother was farther ahead with my parents. You can definitely do ghost tours.
@0:26 lol It’s good to see you back in the Midwest my brother I’m actually on the road right now. Final destination New Castle Indiana! I’m about to enjoy this video. I know this place very well
I hate scary movies, but I went on the guided tour and then by myself through the entire prison again. Was there over 5 hours and nothing scary happened, even when I was alone in the main prison part (maybe they would let me stay overnight?) It was so beautiful. Shawshank Redemption is one of my favorite movies and it was a dream to be in this place (as a visitor).
Most old prisons like this one usually have not only the tours but most have overnight stays as well. I went to Brushy Mountain Prison in Petros, Tennessee in April 2023. It was also built in 1896 and in operation till 2009. They have overnight stas there. This prison is difference from others. Since Petros was a coal mining town, limestones were dug up and that is what the prison is made of. Imagine, no heating in the winters and the limestone soaking in that cold weather. The story goes that prisoners hung their blankets on the bars and then pushed their mattress up against the blankets to keep the cold air out of their cells. In case your wondering, the most infamous prisoner that stayed there was James Earl Ray.
the rose to "Helen" in the pink bathroom is from when a warden's wife, named Helen, one day was reaching up top a shelf & accidently dropped a firearm that went off shooting her in the chest, later killing her! >> just some more wisdom and history from this place
It's been such a long time since I've seen those movies. I think I need to rewatch them and introduce them to my son. Gonna have to add this place to my bucket list. Thanks for sharing!!!
I'd be tempted to pull the planks of the floor up where the x was. Just to satisfy my curiosity. It's always great when you and your sister team up. She needs a channel!
Adam , we have been there , Amazing place . Haunted , my wife's hair and neck was yanked in the Shower . Scared the heck out of her .. AT 12:14 In the cell block we heard a voice at the same time , that was the first event we had there. Highly recommend this place for a visit ..
That place is amazing. The bottom floor looks like a hotel lobby or prestigious, boarding school. I read it closed its doors back in 1990... You were the only ones there? Great video, Adam. You and your sister have a typical, sibling relationship . COOL
Welcome back to the midwest/east coast. I always feel that your best work is done on this side of the country. Plus, we get to see you enjoying hanging with family.
Such a cool place. I was there overnight in 2015, and I think some of the former inmates still linger. Definitely spooky, but worth well worth it. Thank you Shawshank Redemption for saving it
So happy seeing you in Ohio! I grew up about 40 minutes away from the reformatory in Upper Sandusky, which also has a couple filming locations from Shawshank Redemption
Lipstick Zombie I was thinking the same thing. I bet the beauty was lost on the inmates. If I were locked up in there, perhaps it would be the same for me.
I love spooky old prisons - prisons, hospitals & asylums oh my... I want one of those Christmas tree ornaments! I collect weird tree ornaments :) my fave is a pickle one I got from Germany at Epcot 😬🎄
The pickle is actually a German Christmas game your supposed to find the pickle in the tree and you get to open your gift early I do this with my family every year
What a gorgeous Chapel n the beautiful tiles n floors n stairways that have been refurbished are totally awesome!!! It is amazing how they built even institutions back in the day!!! Used great wood, tile,glass, columns, n murals,.. it was a much more beautiful era, even in the prison buildings!!!
@@have-a-wonderful-day yes it is Haunted! I never seen a man on fire. But in its history someone was set ablaze! But, the place is very popular even before Shawshank Redemption was shot here. Because it's haunted
@@have-a-wonderful-day there was a woman when its was a boys reform school that was killed in the early teens 1913-1919 near the back steps and stuffed behind a trash bin or a laundry bin! She has been seen hanging around!
We went there in 2017 and a lot of that cased stuff was not there and it looks like they have cleaned up quite a bit since. If you ever go again, there is the best and sweetest little bed and breakfast in the town over called Lucas. It was called The Summer House. The family was so nice and the food was amazing. They sent us to dinner over down the road from the scene where he finds the box next to the old tree. The tree and been destroyed in a storm, not even a year before we were there but the restaurant had one of the best steaks I've ever eaten in my life. We had taken a history trip in our plane for two weeks ( 2 countries, 11 cities in two weeks ) and this was one of our last stops and probably one of our favorite ones because of that B&B.
I did 3 years in that hell hole and I never heard anything about an electric chair as it was a first offender joint. That chair must have come from OP ( Ohio Pen ) when it was torn down. There was no death row at OSR.
The tobacco you spoke of Bugs dust[4:10] came in a cloth pull string pouch and was like ground tree bark that you rolled with papers not a chewing product.
Hi Adam the woo, I just received the cute t shirt I ordered the one called "Only Woo can prevent camera fires", thank you for the quick shipment! I hope to order one for a friend next time. I enjoyed your visit to the old prison in Ohio. Nice to see you with your Sister in tow!
I missed this one. I guess it was because my mom was in the hospital at the time . What a awesome place to visit though. Just by the first look , I would have never guessed it was a prison though . I think it's the prettiest prison or Reformatory I've ever seen . Thanks Adam and your sweet sister for sharing it with us. I never knew about this place . Very cool !!
You were in my backyard!I was talking to a man who was a barber in the active prison, and he told me that while he was cutting someone's hair, another prisoner came in and stabbed and killed the man he was barbering-needless to say, he found another job!
I remember pulling up there at 18 yrs. Old in the back of a deputy sheriffs car on a rainy day at 9:45 am entered the sallyport and went into the intake section of the prison and put into the bullpen.... 4 months later sent off to lancaster prison (gladiator school) or the hill as we called it !!! Was a brutal time in both .... lost some won some . Very dangerous conditions for all . I recall on commissary day we would go in groups of 7 to 9 men strapped with (hawks) knives".... as we called them . Lots of blood shed during those times and the roaches were in the millions.
My buddy ran a haunted house there. All this is new to me. It was all falling apart at the time. He did show me the mock tunnel they left there from shaw shank.
I went here 4 years for a self guided tour. This place is huge and really cool. Adam , you should check out the Trans-Alleghaney Lunatic Asylum in Weston,W.V. It is amazing !
Great tour, Adam. I would love to visit there. Love to see it all renovated. Glad you wore one of your shirts. I'm waiting for mine I ordered yesterday in Green and Red.
My grandpa worked here as a teacher when I was a kid in the 80s. So cool to me to watch these shows. I can remember spending the night at their house and asking Grandma where papaw was that night and she would say" he's working at the state penitentiary". Like it was normal. I had no idea it was so creepy and old and bad. 🥺. His name was Eugene Jennings Geary. If anyone wants to look him up and confirm
A really great experience wandering thru this place . Self guided tours are only $10 and well worth it . Did you see yesterday's video ? ruclips.net/video/lMSfzmYlqpA/видео.html
TheDailyWoo I do get the notices. Just almost always half an hour to almost late in my place. I just end up refreshing your channel when I get the chance
will you still be in ohio for the next couple of days
Very cool in there. 😎 Great to see your sister again. 😊
you should go to cedar point it's only a hour north
TheDailyWoo one of my favourite movies is The shawshank redemption and Morgan Freeman I think is a great actor
Never before has the phrase, "It's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there" been more appropriate.
Hi Georgie
if I went down I would its no one there
People with short wave radio"s asking a billion stupid questions and bumping into walls
Shawshank is by far one of my all time favorite movies!!
Watch castle rock. so good
I don't blame you there. It's one of my favorites too
Jerry Arnett mine too. I’m obsessed with the movie and I want to see this place so badly!
Yes it’s so good! My cabins up by the prison so it’s fun just exploring
NOLADEEJ
mine too I went to the 25th anniversary and met quite a few of the actors and stand ins truly a life-changing experience Tim robbins and morgan freeman did not attend the event
My grandma had a heart attack in her office on her desk in that prison, she worked there 27yrs. I would never step foot in there..thanks Adam for showing me what it looks like.
I live an hour from Mansfield in columbus. Beautiful place in the summer.
Ah, my old stomping grounds. I actually had something turning a light on and off on request in one cell, and - in the upstairs sick room- my group witnessed a figure breaking a flashlight beam that had been placed on the ground and shined across the floor. Amazing location.
Splorin Ryan cool, I want to do a ghost hunt some time.
That's awesome.
Glad to see your sis traveling with you! Enjoyed your tour of the reformatory! Am eager to see where you go next!! Thank you Adam.
Another great production from RUclips's undisputed king of content!
Awesome to see you back in my state Adam. Enjoy the videos. And enjoy your time here!
When I walk those cells you still don’t feel safe. I was still thinking, ok these bars are not going to hold if I trip and fall. Great place and during October gets turned into a haunt too.
O-H-I-O!!!!!!!! Glad you are back in the best state.
THAT'S WHERE THEY GOT THE NAME G.T.O........
MEANS " GOING TO OHIO !👍😁
I have several friends that worked there , back in the '70s. The movie was very tame in comparison to the stories told to me, and what I remember reading in the paper.
ADAM I LITERALLY LIVED RIGHT UP THE ROAD FROM THERE. Mansfield is my home town!!!!! i want to cry right now this is so amazing!!!!! i lived there for 18 years of my life!!!!! i’m so happy! 😭😭😭
The level of detail and quality craftsmanship found in historic buildings constructed for societies "less than desirable" individuals, never ceases to amaze me.
Unfortunately, most of these architectural gems are vanishing from the landscape. Instead of preservation or repurposing, they're bulldozed. All in the name of progress.
(Ex: Kirkbride state hospitals)
I love the look of the "Brooks was here" room and "Red was too"
I love even the outside look. Then there is Brook's Room & Reds? I just love that style!
OSR was set to be bulldozed as well. Then Castle Rock decided to film Shawshank there. The wrecking ball was there ready to go when they rolled up the start filming.
I talked to a guy who happened to be an extra in “The Shawshank Redemption”. He played one of the prisoners.
What he told?
I was here in 1983 as a young man, and it was worse than you can think. It was around x mas and the cell house did not have any heat, you could see your breath in your cell. But for the bug dust and thats what we called it, he was cigarette tobacco , they gave you one a month. Craziest place iv ever had to stay .
Why is it whenever I watch a new Woo vid I automatically give it a thumbs up before watching? Oh that's right,it's because no one,and I mean NO ONE does vlogs better than Adam the Woo!!!
Good morning Adam! Happy to see you with your sister. That sketchy tattoo machine will give me nightmares. Fascinating old place. Thanks for sharing.
The shank was one of the best, there is no turning back now Red.
Your sense of humor is priceless, Adam! Glad you did the vlog with your Sister.
Oh... one of the most haunted places in the US! Can't wait to watch this one!
LadyDragonsblood I would love to do some ghost hunting there at night. But I do not know if they would let us. 👻👻👻👻😁😁😁😁
Really it's hunted? Not good scary
Barbie Leefe .. Old news
@@Parakeet2008 They have ghost tours there around October every year. They do them all at night but it doesn't need to be dark to experience the paranormal. I was nearly pushed down a set of steps going to the ground floor and when I turned around to cuss out my brother, no one was there and my brother was farther ahead with my parents. You can definitely do ghost tours.
Bullshit. Ghosts aren't real.
@0:26 lol It’s good to see you back in the Midwest my brother I’m actually on the road right now. Final destination New Castle Indiana! I’m about to enjoy this video. I know this place very well
It looks amazing Jay! I could definitely spend the better part of a whole day exploring it. How you doing up there buddy?
forget indian pacers lost go to the prison
As a Columbus Ohio native I am absolutely invested in this video! Thanks for sharing I always wanted to visit there.
I hate scary movies, but I went on the guided tour and then by myself through the entire prison again. Was there over 5 hours and nothing scary happened, even when I was alone in the main prison part (maybe they would let me stay overnight?) It was so beautiful. Shawshank Redemption is one of my favorite movies and it was a dream to be in this place (as a visitor).
Most old prisons like this one usually have not only the tours but most have overnight stays as well. I went to Brushy Mountain Prison in Petros, Tennessee in April 2023. It was also built in 1896 and in operation till 2009. They have overnight stas there.
This prison is difference from others. Since Petros was a coal mining town, limestones were dug up and that is what the prison is made of. Imagine, no heating in the winters and the limestone soaking in that cold weather. The story goes that prisoners hung their blankets on the bars and then pushed their mattress up against the blankets to keep the cold air out of their cells.
In case your wondering, the most infamous prisoner that stayed there was James Earl Ray.
the rose to "Helen" in the pink bathroom is from when a warden's wife, named Helen, one day was reaching up top a shelf & accidently dropped a firearm that went off shooting her in the chest, later killing her! >> just some more wisdom and history from this place
I only lived a few steps from this place never seen the inside of it always wondered what it looked like this is cool
Way cool and interesting. Nice to see your sister. Safe travels.😎
Just want to say Thanks. Today of all days its good to have a friend like you out there... you make things a bit better..
Thanks Adam! Safe travels.
Yay we are from Mansfield, England. Ohio's twinned UK town. Great video again Adam.
Glad to see you were let out with just time served. Rock on.
Great Video Adam, And its nice to see you have your sister with you. You both work good together.
Your Shawshank vlog remains one of my all-time favorites
Wow on that ornament. Nothing says Christmas quite like prison.
Been here a couple of times...for the regular tour and decorated as a haunted house in the fall....both are awesome.
This place's going into my bucket list.
Nice to meet you, Sister The Woo!
What a great surprise. I've been there, and shawshank is my #1 movie. Even have a rita Hayworth tat! Thank you!
It's been such a long time since I've seen those movies. I think I need to rewatch them and introduce them to my son. Gonna have to add this place to my bucket list. Thanks for sharing!!!
I'd be tempted to pull the planks of the floor up where the x was. Just to satisfy my curiosity. It's always great when you and your sister team up. She needs a channel!
RhettyforFun yes she does
The light shines through the windows making the X. The X is the center of the building.
some place I would never get to myself , through the lens of AdamTheWoo's Camera , Thank you
Very cool! Thanks for sharing. Glad you are getting some family time. Have fun. Take care.
Adam , we have been there , Amazing place . Haunted , my wife's hair and neck was yanked in the Shower . Scared the heck out of her .. AT 12:14 In the cell block we heard a voice at the same time , that was the first event we had there. Highly recommend this place for a visit ..
Thanks for the tour Adam really interesting place.
Really enjoyed the sibling humour today. A very impressive place to visit.
Any eerie feelings? Many paranormal experiences documented from there. Awesome vid!
Who's where from Mr Beasts video lol
guilty
me
Shawshank broughte here
What how did you know?😂😂
Me
THXS Im obsessed with OSR..In the past year been there 8 times. Just cant get enough. TY!!
Very Awsome video Ghost Adventures also went there. Safe travels
Love that Adam is wearing his own shirt lol. We need a bttf font adam the woo shirt!
That place is amazing. The bottom floor looks like a hotel lobby or prestigious, boarding school. I read it closed its doors back in 1990... You were the only ones there? Great video, Adam.
You and your sister have a typical, sibling relationship . COOL
It's still open. I just left there today
And there were2 people there a woman and man
This would be a great hotel looks like it is in great shape! Nice B&B location.
Omg no! It's haunted! 😬 They do offer overnight stays and they sound creepy as heck!
Welcome back to the midwest/east coast. I always feel that your best work is done on this side of the country. Plus, we get to see you enjoying hanging with family.
Such a cool place. I was there overnight in 2015, and I think some of the former inmates still linger. Definitely spooky, but worth well worth it. Thank you Shawshank Redemption for saving it
Bullshit
Glad to see you doing what you do best .
Prayers
So happy seeing you in Ohio! I grew up about 40 minutes away from the reformatory in Upper Sandusky, which also has a couple filming locations from Shawshank Redemption
Haha
Your sisters reaction to you about the shower tap was funny as heck. My brother and I have the same back and forth.
Such beautiful architecture. 👍
Personal E-mail It is a surprisingly beautiful to be a prison.
Lipstick Zombie I was thinking the same thing. I bet the beauty was lost on the inmates. If I were locked up in there, perhaps it would be the same for me.
Looks like a nice day trip for the summer! Something I'd love to tour.
Great time to come to Ohio. We are having great weather.
I love spooky old prisons - prisons, hospitals & asylums oh my... I want one of those Christmas tree ornaments! I collect weird tree ornaments :) my fave is a pickle one I got from Germany at Epcot 😬🎄
Did you ever go to the Michigan loonie bin in Traverse City? I did some work there and experienced all kinds of paranormal
Weird is good
The pickle is actually a German Christmas game your supposed to find the pickle in the tree and you get to open your gift early I do this with my family every year
@@Texhoover I love that!
Great vlog Adam. "Get busy living or get busy dying".
What a gorgeous Chapel n the beautiful tiles n floors n stairways that have been refurbished are totally awesome!!! It is amazing how they built even institutions back in the day!!! Used great wood, tile,glass, columns, n murals,.. it was a much more beautiful era, even in the prison buildings!!!
What a huge and amazing place! Thanks for the tour Adam!
This place did look abandoned in 2013, so good to see Faith again, and those little skits y'all did were so cute. Shawshank is a great movie, love it!
That place is haunted with the man that set himself on fire. And yes the chair does move at times
Wow how do you know that?
@@have-a-wonderful-day yes it is Haunted! I never seen a man on fire. But in its history someone was set ablaze! But, the place is very popular even before Shawshank Redemption was shot here. Because it's haunted
@@have-a-wonderful-day there was a woman when its was a boys reform school that was killed in the early teens 1913-1919 near the back steps and stuffed behind a trash bin or a laundry bin! She has been seen hanging around!
@@Chgojerr that is sad. Sis she scary looking
@@have-a-wonderful-day I don't believe so, not like looking at a corpse. However, she does look human like
Great time! We did it last summer after we did the NFL Hall of Fame in nearby Canton. I was amazed to see the room that Crooks and Red stayed in.
We went there in 2017 and a lot of that cased stuff was not there and it looks like they have cleaned up quite a bit since. If you ever go again, there is the best and sweetest little bed and breakfast in the town over called Lucas. It was called The Summer House. The family was so nice and the food was amazing. They sent us to dinner over down the road from the scene where he finds the box next to the old tree. The tree and been destroyed in a storm, not even a year before we were there but the restaurant had one of the best steaks I've ever eaten in my life. We had taken a history trip in our plane for two weeks ( 2 countries, 11 cities in two weeks ) and this was one of our last stops and probably one of our favorite ones because of that B&B.
Love seeing your sis! Great classic Woo-these are the best when you are traveling around!
Thank You Adam for sharing this video. It was really informative. 😁❤️💕😍😇
Who is here from mrbeast's latest video ?
Mee
Me
meee. but I thought it was fully abandoned
Haha me
Meeee!
very cool place. MOST impressive!
I did 3 years in that hell hole and I never heard anything about an electric chair as it was a first offender joint. That chair must have come from OP ( Ohio Pen ) when it was torn down. There was no death row at OSR.
Adam the woo love your sister. She is very funny. Love you too. Keep up the great work. Thank you so much
I can imagine this place in its heydays. Very impressive place.
The tobacco you spoke of Bugs dust[4:10] came in a cloth pull string pouch and was like ground tree bark that you rolled with papers not a chewing product.
Hi Adam the woo, I just received the cute t shirt I ordered the one called "Only Woo can prevent camera fires", thank you for the quick shipment! I hope to order one for a friend next time. I enjoyed your visit to the old prison in Ohio. Nice to see you with your Sister in tow!
I missed this one. I guess it was because my mom was in the hospital at the time . What a awesome place to visit though. Just by the first look , I would have never guessed it was a prison though . I think it's the prettiest prison or Reformatory I've ever seen . Thanks Adam and your sweet sister for sharing it with us. I never knew about this place . Very cool !!
You are in my neck of the woods!! Stop by for a Mt Dew!!
They need a page for people that spent time there
We live 35vmins away Adam it an awesome place 2 go thank you very much for sharing your video awesome job
By far the best and most interesting video you've done in a long time! Keep these videos coming!
Wow, this was another great video Adam the Woo from The Daily Woo.
very beautiful video . America is great country in the world . I wish one day visit shawshank
You were in my backyard!I was talking to a man who was a barber in the active prison, and he told me that while he was cutting someone's hair, another prisoner came in and stabbed and killed the man he was barbering-needless to say, he found another job!
Wow not good I would have left too
I’ve been waiting for this one from you. 👍🏼
thank you for the tour. thumbs up
LOVE the prisons. Great to see your sister again! Great vlog!
Adam!! If you went through Fort Wayne you should've stopped at Coney Island Weiner Stand or Clara's Pizza, taken a walk around downtown!
Thank you for the video Adam !
I remember pulling up there at 18 yrs. Old in the back of a deputy sheriffs car on a rainy day at 9:45 am entered the sallyport and went into the intake section of the prison and put into the bullpen.... 4 months later sent off to lancaster prison (gladiator school) or the hill as we called it !!! Was a brutal time in both .... lost some won some . Very dangerous conditions for all . I recall on commissary day we would go in groups of 7 to 9 men strapped with (hawks) knives".... as we called them . Lots of blood shed during those times and the roaches were in the millions.
Hey my guy 137 327 I did 4 years there 84 to 88 hopefully this finds you in a good point in life
Thanks for taking us to yet another cool place, Adam! I have been following your adventures for years :)
Tbey really fixed this place up.. looks brand new! ;)
My buddy ran a haunted house there. All this is new to me. It was all falling apart at the time. He did show me the mock tunnel they left there from shaw shank.
From cleveland and have driven by - but moved down to southern ohio so I'll have to stop by when I go up north for a visit. Hope you had fun
I went here 4 years for a self guided tour. This place is huge and really cool. Adam , you should check out the Trans-Alleghaney Lunatic Asylum in Weston,W.V. It is amazing !
Great tour, Adam. I would love to visit there. Love to see it all renovated. Glad you wore one of your shirts. I'm waiting for mine I ordered yesterday in Green and Red.
I had that "toy train" too (1:23). It was built from the Strombecker DeWitt Clinton model train wood kit from the 1940s and 50s.
My grandpa worked here as a teacher when I was a kid in the 80s. So cool to me to watch these shows. I can remember spending the night at their house and asking Grandma where papaw was that night and she would say" he's working at the state penitentiary". Like it was normal. I had no idea it was so creepy and old and bad. 🥺. His name was Eugene Jennings Geary. If anyone wants to look him up and confirm
From the outside it looks like a mansion or a castle but the inside gives a really creepy feeling.
Absolutely love ur videos. The best vlog. Not filled with negativity
DO YOU THINK THERE IS ANY LEAD PAINT IN THERE?