Got to say I am with Chris on the demo mode issue. If the equipment / software is on the bike when it leaves the factory, arrives at the showroom and still on the bike when I ride it away after paying for it then it's mine and I shouldn't have to pay more to "unlock" a feature that is on the vehicle I already own. Seems like the start of a slippery slope into paid subscriptions to use bike features (which is probably coming anyway tbf).
Absolutely agreed! This monthly payment scheme for features like heated steering wheel, adaptive damping and such is already a thing on cars. Sure, on a leasing deal it would make more sense, but I would never agree to pay a monthly fee to use hardware/software on a vehicle that I have payed for in full.
Thing is if they where mechanical parts you wouldn’t think twice about paying extra. It’s just a change in the times that we now pay for software. Intellectual property, just like this video on RUclips. Someone has to pay for extras like quickshifter and rally mode too(development costs for the software, and if they had to put extra mechanical bits on the bike), and if it is more cost effective to only make the one physical bike. Only charge the people that want them, offers cheaper pricing for those that don’t want the extras too.
I really like how you guys cut to the studio throughout the review, it’s adds another dynamic to the video that makes this channel feel even more premium
with Chris on the demo mode, I had this issue with a car and they forgot what I had activated and not - it's an encouragement to break codes on the bike and breach the warranty. It's on the bike, it's mad as one dealer might activate it or another may not.
Absolutely. And it's super important that KTM got Al to discuss a price for the bike that's not actually the price of the one he rode. That's the scam. He spent a bunch of time saying that it's not much more expensive than the Yamaha, but that's not actually true, once customers pay for the quick shifter and rally mode and all the rest of the stuff he liked about it. It's like the useless "dry weight" figures that manufacturers started using. It's a way to get reviewers to talk about numbers that are lower than the customer actually gets. It's not an oversight that KTM haven't released pricing of those upgrades. They will wait until all the reviewers gush about the value of the bike, then tack on a bunch more after the fact. I commend all the other manufacturers for including features with the bike rather than trying to sneak them in later. I hope KTM's approach does not take over the market.
Waiting for KTM 890 Adventure vs. Yamaha 700 Tenere vs. Aprilia Tuareg 660 vs. Husqvarna Norden 901 vs. BMW 850 GS Adventure vs. Honda XL 750 Transalp vs. Moto Morini X-cape 650 vs. Ducati Desert X. It would be the biggest and the best test of Adventure bikes ever....
Don't forget MV's Lucky Explorer. It looks like they may actually have a legit competitor this time. Very interested to see it directly compared to the Ducati and KTM.
Looks great and like they moved the standard a little more into the Adventure R realm. Spy shy shots from earlier in the year had a 3rd 890 Adventure wearing 17" rims also. The "travel" section on the Katoom site also teasing a Stage 4, 5 and 6 with 2 new models released this month and another in January. Just a prediction for the Sport tourer version as well!
So in a couple of years you'll probably be able to pay a 3rd party £200 to chip the bike and unlock all the features. Sounds like an own goal from KTM as they've saved a bit on simplifying production cost within the model by including all the hardware but I'd rather pay dave-o (pasty-leg) down the road than them to unlock the kit they've already given me.
Expect that will 'lock out' some if not all of the features. There are simply not enough bikes sold to justify the research and cost of creating such a chip, which not all owners will even buy.
Paying to unlock features is gross. It's like BMW charging extra for heated seats or whatever it was. The tech is already in the car/bike but you have to unlock it. Nah.
My view on the demo mode: Eventually someone will find a hack for it to get it all unlocked at a fraction of the price, in which case, you'll be glad all the equipment is already on the bike. For KTM the hardware seems like the minor part of the costs, but they still need to recoup R&D. They could either increase the price of the whole bike and offer it as standard, but then you get people that "don't need all these gizmos" calling it an expensive bike. Alternative then is to offer a bike with no gizmos, one with all gizmos, but what if someone only wants some gizmos? Clearly for KTM the variability in production seemed to be a much bigger cut in their profit margins than the extra cost to put all the hardware on all bikes, sell the bike at the lower cost, and have these as paid addons. Imo it's a win win. In base trim this bike is still leagues above a T7 World Raid so you really can't complain for it's value, and whilst KTM does go overboard with gizmos, their "Tech packs" for ~400 quid are generally not a bad deal for all the added functionality. QS, lean sensitive ABS and TC, various engine management controls for 400 quid probably go a lot further for riding enjoyment than say 400 quid on an endcan, yet noone is picking on companies for putting god awful exhaust on their bikes as stock that you "have to" get rid of. In fact KTM is pretty good with stock exhausts as far as sound goes.
For me personally, I’d factor the cost of any rider aids in to the price of the bike and simply pay for it at outset. That said, KTM dealers often do deals. I got the Tech Pack on my Gen 3 SDR as a promotion, so you never know, could be a moot point if you shop around.
I'm using my ATAS in the crappy weather and it's fantastic but as a daily it can be a pain in the ass in heavy traffic. This looks like a cracking alternative. It looks a lot better. But still not as good as a Norden.....
Having to pay "extra" for "extras" you can choose to your preference is surely better than the old way of doing it. Making 3 different bikes, for examply a "S" model, and "R" model and an "RS" model. What you have on demo mode is the "RS" version, it's then up to you whether you want that, the "S" model, or the "R" model. You get what you pay for.
When Chris brought the idea of Enduro bikes, I think the 890 is still a bit too heavy, but that being said, a 690 would sort of describe an Enduro bike replacement properly. That one can carry some luggage, it's still fun on the road and way more capable off-road just because of the weight. Put a little rally tower on top and you have your wind protection sorted. Obviously on a road it won't be as fun as the 890, but it's much closer to a true 50/50 than an 890... In my opinion, of course.
That's my whole point with the new Zero motorcycle batteries which have the ability to give you even more range but only if you buy the app! It is there on the bike already and especially when talking electric, you are carrying around extra weight that you don't need unless you want to pay for it! Bit like buying wheely luggage but only being able to carry it until you pay extra for the use of the wheels!
I’ve just bought a 2022 890 Adventure and whilst part of me wishes I’d waited for the new version you have as a bike it’s superb and the deal I got frankly not worth more for capability I wouldn’t use. Over the T7 World Raid it’s got much more grunt but above all lower centre of gravity and better electronics. I’m a 5’8” shortarse but even with the seat on the higher setting and tip toes it’s perfectly manageable. Yes, the Buster Gonad look is a little quirky but not to the point of being a deal breaker. Plus protection that my Africa Twin didn’t have.
100% agree you don’t need anymore power than the 105 of the 890 but couldn’t be without the 1290 adventure power now I’ve had it 🤣 Top video as always chaps 👍🏼👍🏼
How is the fun factor of this new 890 compared to the big bikes you tested a while back, like the Ducati MS V4s and KTMs 1290 SAS? For me, I love the power of my 1290 SAS because it puts a huge grin on my face.
I dont like paying to unlock a featurw that i have physical access to and given a trial of on something that is "mine". This had been goin on for over a decade woth software like video games. What assurance is there that if i purchase the upgrade then sell the bike, it doesnt get switched off and the new owner has to pay again? Happened to a tesla owner not too long ago. And if that was a dealer or manufacturer's mistake... that doesnt leave one woth confidence that they can sell a vehocle stating it has the full suite of gadgets working.
I remember every spec sheet warrior freaking out about the DL1000 "totally exposed" oil cooler. Now that same group is ecstatic the plastic fuel cell is right next to the crankcases?!?
This subject needs a poll or mass debate lol .. I got to say Chris is right ,on the extras being fitted but locked unless you pay the extra . It just sounds wrong ! I know it means Ktm,s production line only have to produce one bike instead of having customers order different specification machines, so from the manufacturer pov it makes sense . But from a customers point of view … the cost of the r&d has already been included whether or not the owner pays for the upgrades , Also what if a system that’s installed crashes and causes a problem and that it’s not a system you have paid for or unlocked??? Just my 2 penny’s worth
so do you want to buy a base model without any extras and then fork out the cash for whatever you want without trying it ?? aka Sure you can get a QS and blipper for this bike.... but none of the new bikes have it as standard so if you want it on yours its a 300 quid assembly and 2 hours in the workshop before you get to try it...... and then you hate it...... sounds reasonable ehh 😆
I test rode one of these earlier today and what a brilliant bike !!! Coming from a Motocross background the size of it was daunting at first but It rides very light and is very easy to throw around ! Masses of power put a massive smile on my face unfortunately I was only riding around Hemel Hempstead and not in Europe 😅
Looks nice but then my local dealer won't recognise a breakdown, total oil loss or brake failure are OK apparently, the demo mode is disgusting, will they make a loss putting it on if it's not purchased? Also KTM love to massively discount new bikes after a few months. If you must have one wait until second hand and get one with all the toys already unlocked.
So if you like those electronics and at 1500 miles you have to budget another lump of money to cover them. How does that work for people who finance their bikes? Can they go back and put this in the finance plan or must they dig into their pockets for the cash?
The tech is already on the bike; you finance the bike and have a set payment as you leave the dealership and the demo mode expires…. So you now rack up a credit card, refinance, pay more interest, or pay in full to reinstate the packages! It creates negative emotions for many, especially if they are on a budget. Why not just market the bike at a set price and you take it or leave from the start. Plus, I wonder if someone can just hack the software. I’m sure it’s all been budgeted for profit since it’s already on the bike. KTM makes their money regardless if you purchase the extra package. I’m sure everyone’s interpretation is KTM just makes more money if riders decide to purchase the tech packages after the demo is over.
easy solution...... figure inn the cost when you get the bike....... its called planing your personal economy..... life isnt fair...... if you cant afford it..... dont cry when they repo it because you damn sure knew how much it costs
Husky Norden you get most of the equipment electronics, you only have to pay for the Explorer pack maybe heated grips and seat. But it’s not that expensive. Plus it looks better.
the R version seat costs here about 120eur. Suspension upgrade to 250-260mm will be from 1500-2500eur and give far better results than the oem of the R version. We have been telling many customers from the beginning, that in reality, the standard 890 is the way to go (its just the color scheme sometimes, if one does not like it, then get some stickers...).
Nice review fellas! I bought a new 890 R in Jan of 2021, and love the thing. While there have been some minor issues with it (dealer broke some parts under the tank and it sat for 4 months) it's been a great all-around bike. If you could have only one bike, this would make a great choice. I'm lucky enough to also have a 2015 BMW S1000RR for the twisty bits. Sadly I've only got a little over 5,000mi on it (aforementioned dealer issues and had to cut my 2022 riding vacation short due to the Kung Flu), but they've been good miles, riding in the Colorado mountains and a trip to Moab (that one cut short). VERY memorable. I'm returning to riding dirt after being off it since '91 (but still riding sportbikes the whole time), so, I'm going slow and re-learning my skills so I don't FUBAR myself (I'm 58) or the bike. It's FAR more capable than I am in the dirt, so, that's a good thing as I can grow to get better. There are lots of aftermarket parts for it and you can literally add 1/2 the purchase price in farkles (...or so I'm told...LOL), though adding some of them are a TOTAL PITA. Like getting to the wiring inside the headlight nacelle to power the GPS (WTF KTM? Why not have them accessible without pulling that f@cker apart?), putting the Power Parts folding levers on, getting the cat out to do a cat-delete pipe, and changing the handlebars if you've got REAL handguards (it interferes with the dash then). But, I've finally got it ALMOST where I want it (the Sargent seat is a TOTAL gamechanger), just putting in the Rottweiler airbox and I should be good. All in all, it's the perfect all-rounder, highly recommended!
I don't like the idea of things being on the bike that you have to pay extra for. If it costs money to put it on the bike then why are they putting it on the bike for it to potentially never be activated? Are people that do pay to unlock these features covering the cost of putting them on bikes where they aren't being activated?
The demo mode makes it easier and cheaper (for KTM and dealers) to get it, previously you had to go back to the dealer and wait for an hour to install it. Now it’s just to unlock it and done.
Have to agree with Chris, if it’s already on the bike why should you have to pay extra for it ? Rode a KTM for two years and when I went to change to the new model it was costing me an extra thousand pounds to get the full electronic package unlocked. Robbery ! Walked away and got the BMW s1000r for a far better deal with no hidden extras.
I agree with Chris. Nobody buys a standard GS, BMW just offers it so that the price of entry sounds artificially cheap. The same with KTM. Just make the best bike you can with everything on it for a fair price. It will cost more, but owners can't complain when they're getting the actual bike that they want.
Wait until the next incarnation of the 790 is released, imagine how good that will be and you only have to wait 12 months, considering this is the third version of the 790 in 3 years and the original 790 was a banger bike. KTM and BMW are marketing geniuses, the Apple of motorcycles.
When you do a ktm middleweight test, please take 2023 790 890 890R. Just wondering if the 790 will be as much spot in the middle as the 890 and at the other hand if one will regret forever not spending the money for the R suspension, even on road. Thanks. You are the best, especially on considering the fun part of biking
If you decide you don't want to enable the extra 'demo' features that KTM have disabled, can you opt to have all the kit that is not then being used to be removed before delivery? What is the point of carrying around any extra weight of redundant equipment?
The KTM is not going to loose money, with the bike if the owner doesn't want to pay for the modes/parts, the price already covers for all the parts and software installed , KTM is only charging for the parts and software for the second time.
Regarding demo mode - for me it is fine. I'm an IT guy so I do understand it. It is like having a computer but you must buy a program. You can't say that I already bought a computer so every program should be included. Besides, I bet that it is cheaper to do it this way (for KTM), vs making different assembly for each version.
The difference is that the upgrades fitted to the KTM are mainly driven by hardware, the managing software is not really where the development costs lay for most of the features. It's like buying a car with a V8 installed in it but only 4 cylinders work if you don't pay for the upgrade. The costs have been incurred by the manufacturer in the engines development, production and installation but the customer is prevented from its use. In fact it has cost more to add the software restrictions and 'demo' mode.
@@WestCoastVisitor I would kind of disagree and say the price is in the software. The hardware is on most bikes by now. (drive by wire, gyro sensors, ABS sensors). But immagine how much work goes into making it work on 2 wheels as well as KTM has done. I can only compare the normal ABS from the T7 and to a 690 Enduro I tried. The KTM was so much better there is not even a comparison, makes the Yamaha feel like stone age tech. What makes the difference is the software imo, and how well KTM has figured out these systems. But I would still say it should just be on the bike as standard. And it was kind of a stupid marketing move when you look at all the outrage. The funny thing is that there would have probably been no outrage at all if there was no demo mode and the rider aids to be purchased without testing like it has been until now. The demo mode thing really rubbed people in the wrong way, because now they are actually taking away stuff which hurts psychologically I guess, before you just bought it extra and it seemed fine for people.
@@gbner9991 Speaking as a firmware software engineer for a hardware manufacturer I can say that the costs for developing most of that software was not on the same level as the costs of design and manufacture of, say, the quickshifter. Remember that the software development cost is a single expense and has a negligible cost for its replication, the manufactured items required are a cost per bike...times many thousand. The software is not on the same level as computer games or office products. The issue for KTM is not paying for the cost of the software, it is paying for the functionality which is mostly achieved by the equipment that is installed on each bike and which is not activated.
I see your point guys. I also can totally agree on it. Thing is that at the same time I’m super pleased that they didn’t make a car manufacturer trick with for example having you to pay for heated seat in a subscription model…
@@m4tblz I'm sure many would say that the heating elements are already in the seat so the manufacturing costs aren't the issue, what you are paying for is the software which switches the heating elements on and off. ;)
A bike IS suspension- brilliant suspension often means brilliant bike. I had a few early Multistrada’s, one had Ohlins and it was SO much a better bike than the non ohlins…
I don’t t see anything wrong with KTM’s pricing structure. If they included all the electronics in the purchase price, people would just complain that they’d prefer to have the bike without the gadgets for less money. Sure it’s already on the bike, but to me that’s a pretty smart way to keep everyone happy with a simple update at the dealer if an option is wanted. You want QS? Boom, you got it. You don’t…great, you didn’t have to pay for it.
I'd probably have an 890 if KTM didn't also make the 690/701, which was a better fit for me (I've already got a 500lb'ish Tarmac focused ADV bike in the Multistrada, what I wanted was a lightweight dirt focused ADV bike and the 690 platform is the best starting point for that IMO).
It's a terrific bike, they clearly have listened to customer feedback and resolved any issues. Compare that to Honda with the much anticipated Trans Alp which isn't at all the bike most customers were hoping for. On the subject of Demo mode you could argue back and forth all day. On the 790 some features were standard fitment others not present at all, to have cruise control required ramp time at the dealers and addition of an upgraded component. To save this hassle KTM built in the components and software but required a fee to enable them. Although this was quite a substantial sum most dealers would offer the package for half price and even KTM itself would do a promo where it was free. I can see the points for those who argue on both sides regarding giving it then holding it to ransom, which does seem rather exploitative. However I'm sure when you look at other manufacturers prices for fitting things like a quick shifter and heated grips, you're already well in excess of the price of enabling the full package. I own the 2021 model 890 Adventure R I had the full package enabled for half price, along with the heated seats and a Remus exhaust. I'm very happy with the bike and delighted with the deal the dealership gave me. At least now others can try before they buy, so they know what suits their needs best. Those buying it second hand can also choose what suits them.
Having to pay extra for capabilities all ready loaded on the bike I just paid a pile of money for is BS. This is why I won’t ever buy a KTM. But then again, I like to ride my bikes not fix them.
The fact that the premium aids are already on the bike means that KTM doesn't need to make a base model bike. This can tremendously reduce manufacturing costs and time. You can buy the base model, and save up the money for the rider aids later on. I think that's fantastic.
You guys were in my little town of Valado dos Frades. Hope you enjoyed your stay in Portugal. A little side note, would you recommend the 890 Adventure for someone who never done offroad? I have a Kawasaki Versys 650 but i'm looking at KTM at the moment and i'm almost sold to it
Great review, I would be very tempted by the bike...if only I could ride off-road! I'm with Chris on the matter of payment to access functionality - it's a bit like having a 4 slot toaster but only being able to use 2 unless you pay extra (I was going to use a female-based 2 slot analogy, but thought that might be too crude 😉)
The funny thing is there would have probably been no outrage at all if you just had to buy the electronic suite extra without testing as it has been until now. The demo mode really rubbed people in the wrong way. Probably because now they are really making it apparent that the stuff is already on the bike and it's actively taking those features away 2 weeks after you just spend 14.000€ on a bike. I feel like the marketing department kind of messed up on this one. This bike seems basically the best middle weight ADV bike at the moment (at least most reviewers seemed to feel that way) and they managed to cloud that with this stupid demo-mode debacle.
have you tested the ducati desert x? if yes how would you compare this to the desert x or the triumph 900 rally pro? (looking into buy 1 of the 3... other options are acceptable too, since i do a lot of kms on road but want a bike that i can explore offroad and not worry about it)
It's not new that KTM(and BMW) charge extra for certain features. Only difference is now you can try before buy. I'd rather be able to check it out, than just buying it and not knowing if I want those features. I have owned a 1290 Adventure S for 2 years and haven't purchased the Teck Pack. It is a better position than paying more for the bike and not using the features.
Do you think there is such a big diffrence between 2022 and 2023 model. Is it worh to pay more to 2023? We can buy 2022 with too many accessories really needed on bike.
As an owner of an 2022 890 adventure standard... having adjustable front is super nice update. I don't have it & the rebound is way too low for my fat a**
100% with chris on this. It annoys me intensely that I have to pay to unlock something that's already on the bike. I have to unlock stuff I'm not interested in just to get a quick shifter for example. I've bought 7 new ktm's over the years. I have a GT in the garage and this is making me shy away from a new Super adventure. Not a good move KTM. Your client base is older with these models and we don't like have our pants pulled down. Not by you anyway. Why can't you be more like Porsche? sell the base model and then spec what you want. I'll have bigger wheels and a parking camera as I'm shit at parking. The base car is all I will ever need. The off road capability is pointless in the UK anyway. Off road in the Peak District is more like hard enduro. There's no open trails as per the test. Top video as ever chaps.
Turn the bike off and having the same settings should be the default, but legal reasons. Costs more to make different specs, so make 1 bike with the option to unlock features, some may not want X thing and another might. So paying for the RnD is a thing.
There’s no way ktm haven’t already factored the tech packs into the bike when sold in stock form It’s just them saying by the bike for a profit then come back and give us another grand
There is a big difference between a bike you have to live with and pay for if you f it up, and a freebie fun session where you don't care if you overdo it.
As with all subscriptions, in next few years i can already see that 'base' 990 will come as A2 license spec. "Just pay few more grand to unlock 890 performance, its good value ! " :D
Reliability is always the elephant in the room - do you guys have any thoughts on that. Or would I be heading into a world of "Inherent Austrian Joy"...a dark world.
I understand where ktm are maybe coming from with the demo option electrics etc, but it's bullshit. If it costs too much to produce them on the bike for free, then why put them on the bike when no one uses them in the first place? Surely it would be more cost effective on their end making them separate add ons... doing this way is punishing the rider for buying the bike by rubbing their noses in it saying haha, you have this but you can't use it. If I bought a new ktm I'd strip them separate parts and send them back to ktm for money off the bikes overall cost. Honda's Transalp gives you the extras as all separate add ons, why not do the same?
Already felt like we were being scammed with the old payment model of unlocking stuff that’s already on it from the factory. This is just a new level of scam. Never defend a companies shady tactics.
Got to say I am with Chris on the demo mode issue. If the equipment / software is on the bike when it leaves the factory, arrives at the showroom and still on the bike when I ride it away after paying for it then it's mine and I shouldn't have to pay more to "unlock" a feature that is on the vehicle I already own. Seems like the start of a slippery slope into paid subscriptions to use bike features (which is probably coming anyway tbf).
Absolutely agreed!
This monthly payment scheme for features like heated steering wheel, adaptive damping and such is already a thing on cars.
Sure, on a leasing deal it would make more sense, but I would never agree to pay a monthly fee to use hardware/software on a vehicle that I have payed for in full.
Motorcycles by EA sports.
It’s in the DLC.
How long before you can buy an "unlock kit" and that voids your warranty?
Will need enough social credits for it
Thing is if they where mechanical parts you wouldn’t think twice about paying extra. It’s just a change in the times that we now pay for software. Intellectual property, just like this video on RUclips. Someone has to pay for extras like quickshifter and rally mode too(development costs for the software, and if they had to put extra mechanical bits on the bike), and if it is more cost effective to only make the one physical bike. Only charge the people that want them, offers cheaper pricing for those that don’t want the extras too.
I really like how you guys cut to the studio throughout the review, it’s adds another dynamic to the video that makes this channel feel even more premium
Yes i feel they're returning to the go pro + studio edits now which is great. They used to do it more often several years ago.
Agreed
That windscreen looks like it could open a giant beer bottle.
@Michael Parkinson it’s a rain funnel.
Or a giant can of whoop arse
Styled on a ladie's furry bit!
I mean, but if it works to give you nice clean air with good protection... Who cares?
Can I have that beer bottle?😉
with Chris on the demo mode, I had this issue with a car and they forgot what I had activated and not - it's an encouragement to break codes on the bike and breach the warranty. It's on the bike, it's mad as one dealer might activate it or another may not.
Absolutely. And it's super important that KTM got Al to discuss a price for the bike that's not actually the price of the one he rode. That's the scam. He spent a bunch of time saying that it's not much more expensive than the Yamaha, but that's not actually true, once customers pay for the quick shifter and rally mode and all the rest of the stuff he liked about it.
It's like the useless "dry weight" figures that manufacturers started using. It's a way to get reviewers to talk about numbers that are lower than the customer actually gets. It's not an oversight that KTM haven't released pricing of those upgrades. They will wait until all the reviewers gush about the value of the bike, then tack on a bunch more after the fact.
I commend all the other manufacturers for including features with the bike rather than trying to sneak them in later. I hope KTM's approach does not take over the market.
@@yumpbalump Good Point about the ''Dry Weight'' And often an oversight by Customers, As if we don't need fuel to ride the Bike..WTH!
Waiting for KTM 890 Adventure vs. Yamaha 700 Tenere vs. Aprilia Tuareg 660 vs. Husqvarna Norden 901 vs. BMW 850 GS Adventure vs. Honda XL 750 Transalp vs. Moto Morini X-cape 650 vs. Ducati Desert X. It would be the biggest and the best test of Adventure bikes ever....
...and the yellow forgotten one win?
Don't forget MV's Lucky Explorer. It looks like they may actually have a legit competitor this time. Very interested to see it directly compared to the Ducati and KTM.
Why no tiger 900
Looks great and like they moved the standard a little more into the Adventure R realm. Spy shy shots from earlier in the year had a 3rd 890 Adventure wearing 17" rims also. The "travel" section on the Katoom site also teasing a Stage 4, 5 and 6 with 2 new models released this month and another in January. Just a prediction for the Sport tourer version as well!
So in a couple of years you'll probably be able to pay a 3rd party £200 to chip the bike and unlock all the features. Sounds like an own goal from KTM as they've saved a bit on simplifying production cost within the model by including all the hardware but I'd rather pay dave-o (pasty-leg) down the road than them to unlock the kit they've already given me.
Expect that will 'lock out' some if not all of the features. There are simply not enough bikes sold to justify the research and cost of creating such a chip, which not all owners will even buy.
Paying to unlock features is gross. It's like BMW charging extra for heated seats or whatever it was. The tech is already in the car/bike but you have to unlock it. Nah.
My view on the demo mode:
Eventually someone will find a hack for it to get it all unlocked at a fraction of the price, in which case, you'll be glad all the equipment is already on the bike. For KTM the hardware seems like the minor part of the costs, but they still need to recoup R&D. They could either increase the price of the whole bike and offer it as standard, but then you get people that "don't need all these gizmos" calling it an expensive bike.
Alternative then is to offer a bike with no gizmos, one with all gizmos, but what if someone only wants some gizmos? Clearly for KTM the variability in production seemed to be a much bigger cut in their profit margins than the extra cost to put all the hardware on all bikes, sell the bike at the lower cost, and have these as paid addons.
Imo it's a win win.
In base trim this bike is still leagues above a T7 World Raid so you really can't complain for it's value, and whilst KTM does go overboard with gizmos, their "Tech packs" for ~400 quid are generally not a bad deal for all the added functionality.
QS, lean sensitive ABS and TC, various engine management controls for 400 quid probably go a lot further for riding enjoyment than say 400 quid on an endcan, yet noone is picking on companies for putting god awful exhaust on their bikes as stock that you "have to" get rid of. In fact KTM is pretty good with stock exhausts as far as sound goes.
Great review as always.
Kudos to Diogo Guerra, from Off Road Off Course, for a banger router!
Have you ever seen a bigger improvement in looks to a model in one gen update?
I like the banter with Chris being included in the review. It makes the video more interesting so thank you. Keep up the good work guys
For me personally, I’d factor the cost of any rider aids in to the price of the bike and simply pay for it at outset.
That said, KTM dealers often do deals. I got the Tech Pack on my Gen 3 SDR as a promotion, so you never know, could be a moot point if you shop around.
I bought a new 1290SDR, I got £1000 off list and all the electric packages thrown into the deal
The manufacturers want us used to recurring payments at least as much as actually charging at the moment. It's an investment in future income.
I'm using my ATAS in the crappy weather and it's fantastic but as a daily it can be a pain in the ass in heavy traffic. This looks like a cracking alternative. It looks a lot better. But still not as good as a Norden.....
Having to pay "extra" for "extras" you can choose to your preference is surely better than the old way of doing it. Making 3 different bikes, for examply a "S" model, and "R" model and an "RS" model.
What you have on demo mode is the "RS" version, it's then up to you whether you want that, the "S" model, or the "R" model. You get what you pay for.
When Chris brought the idea of Enduro bikes, I think the 890 is still a bit too heavy, but that being said, a 690 would sort of describe an Enduro bike replacement properly. That one can carry some luggage, it's still fun on the road and way more capable off-road just because of the weight. Put a little rally tower on top and you have your wind protection sorted. Obviously on a road it won't be as fun as the 890, but it's much closer to a true 50/50 than an 890... In my opinion, of course.
If only all reviews had that much humour but all the facts and someone who actually ride the bike how it was intended very good and entertaining
That's my whole point with the new Zero motorcycle batteries which have the ability to give you even more range but only if you buy the app! It is there on the bike already and especially when talking electric, you are carrying around extra weight that you don't need unless you want to pay for it! Bit like buying wheely luggage but only being able to carry it until you pay extra for the use of the wheels!
I’ve just bought a 2022 890 Adventure and whilst part of me wishes I’d waited for the new version you have as a bike it’s superb and the deal I got frankly not worth more for capability I wouldn’t use. Over the T7 World Raid it’s got much more grunt but above all lower centre of gravity and better electronics. I’m a 5’8” shortarse but even with the seat on the higher setting and tip toes it’s perfectly manageable. Yes, the Buster Gonad look is a little quirky but not to the point of being a deal breaker. Plus protection that my Africa Twin didn’t have.
Glad you decided to buy a bike ASAP. There will always be newer versions. Life is short. Enjoy your rides.
100% agree you don’t need anymore power than the 105 of the 890 but couldn’t be without the 1290 adventure power now I’ve had it 🤣
Top video as always chaps 👍🏼👍🏼
My Dragster RR has 140h.p....love it all!
How is the fun factor of this new 890 compared to the big bikes you tested a while back, like the Ducati MS V4s and KTMs 1290 SAS? For me, I love the power of my 1290 SAS because it puts a huge grin on my face.
I dont like paying to unlock a featurw that i have physical access to and given a trial of on something that is "mine". This had been goin on for over a decade woth software like video games. What assurance is there that if i purchase the upgrade then sell the bike, it doesnt get switched off and the new owner has to pay again? Happened to a tesla owner not too long ago. And if that was a dealer or manufacturer's mistake... that doesnt leave one woth confidence that they can sell a vehocle stating it has the full suite of gadgets working.
For demo mode my take is I don’t mind the soft features…but I do slightly resent h/w features being fitted but unusable.
Agree with Chris, if it has the bits on the bike already then set the price as such. It's a slippery slope toward paid subscriptions for it
I remember every spec sheet warrior freaking out about the DL1000 "totally exposed" oil cooler. Now that same group is ecstatic the plastic fuel cell is right next to the crankcases?!?
This subject needs a poll or mass debate lol .. I got to say Chris is right ,on the extras being fitted but locked unless you pay the extra . It just sounds wrong !
I know it means Ktm,s production line only have to produce one bike instead of having customers order different specification machines, so from the manufacturer pov it makes sense . But from a customers point of view … the cost of the r&d has already been included whether or not the owner pays for the upgrades ,
Also what if a system that’s installed crashes and causes a problem and that it’s not a system you have paid for or unlocked??? Just my 2 penny’s worth
so do you want to buy a base model without any extras and then fork out the cash for whatever you want without trying it ?? aka Sure you can get a QS and blipper for this bike.... but none of the new bikes have it as standard so if you want it on yours its a 300 quid assembly and 2 hours in the workshop before you get to try it...... and then you hate it...... sounds reasonable ehh 😆
I test rode one of these earlier today and what a brilliant bike !!! Coming from a Motocross background the size of it was daunting at first but It rides very light and is very easy to throw around ! Masses of power put a massive smile on my face unfortunately I was only riding around Hemel Hempstead and not in Europe 😅
Looks nice but then my local dealer won't recognise a breakdown, total oil loss or brake failure are OK apparently, the demo mode is disgusting, will they make a loss putting it on if it's not purchased? Also KTM love to massively discount new bikes after a few months. If you must have one wait until second hand and get one with all the toys already unlocked.
Buy a Husqvarna Norden 901 £350 quid more and you get the quick shifter and cruise control standard.
So if you like those electronics and at 1500 miles you have to budget another lump of money to cover them. How does that work for people who finance their bikes? Can they go back and put this in the finance plan or must they dig into their pockets for the cash?
how you choose to pay for your bike is hardly a KTM issue..... life isnt fair so if you cant afford it.... tough luck
The tech is already on the bike; you finance the bike and have a set payment as you leave the dealership and the demo mode expires…. So you now rack up a credit card, refinance, pay more interest, or pay in full to reinstate the packages! It creates negative emotions for many, especially if they are on a budget. Why not just market the bike at a set price and you take it or leave from the start.
Plus, I wonder if someone can just hack the software. I’m sure it’s all been budgeted for profit since it’s already on the bike. KTM makes their money regardless if you purchase the extra package. I’m sure everyone’s interpretation is KTM just makes more money if riders decide to purchase the tech packages after the demo is over.
easy solution...... figure inn the cost when you get the bike....... its called planing your personal economy..... life isnt fair...... if you cant afford it..... dont cry when they repo it because you damn sure knew how much it costs
I hate the software unlock model as well. If the hardware is there, then it should be activated from the factory.
Husky Norden you get most of the equipment electronics, you only have to pay for the Explorer pack maybe heated grips and seat. But it’s not that expensive. Plus it looks better.
the R version seat costs here about 120eur.
Suspension upgrade to 250-260mm will be from 1500-2500eur and give far better results than the oem of the R version.
We have been telling many customers from the beginning, that in reality, the standard 890 is the way to go (its just the color scheme sometimes, if one does not like it, then get some stickers...).
@Teeth_44 spam?
Can you actually extend the travel of the forks? Or you need to buy a whole new front end?
@@timsalabimbombassa internals will be changed. since they are 43mm forks, they weigh also less and have more comfortable flex in them.
Nice review fellas! I bought a new 890 R in Jan of 2021, and love the thing. While there have been some minor issues with it (dealer broke some parts under the tank and it sat for 4 months) it's been a great all-around bike. If you could have only one bike, this would make a great choice. I'm lucky enough to also have a 2015 BMW S1000RR for the twisty bits. Sadly I've only got a little over 5,000mi on it (aforementioned dealer issues and had to cut my 2022 riding vacation short due to the Kung Flu), but they've been good miles, riding in the Colorado mountains and a trip to Moab (that one cut short). VERY memorable. I'm returning to riding dirt after being off it since '91 (but still riding sportbikes the whole time), so, I'm going slow and re-learning my skills so I don't FUBAR myself (I'm 58) or the bike. It's FAR more capable than I am in the dirt, so, that's a good thing as I can grow to get better. There are lots of aftermarket parts for it and you can literally add 1/2 the purchase price in farkles (...or so I'm told...LOL), though adding some of them are a TOTAL PITA. Like getting to the wiring inside the headlight nacelle to power the GPS (WTF KTM? Why not have them accessible without pulling that f@cker apart?), putting the Power Parts folding levers on, getting the cat out to do a cat-delete pipe, and changing the handlebars if you've got REAL handguards (it interferes with the dash then). But, I've finally got it ALMOST where I want it (the Sargent seat is a TOTAL gamechanger), just putting in the Rottweiler airbox and I should be good. All in all, it's the perfect all-rounder, highly recommended!
Where can I buy the WD‐farty that Chris was using?
I don't like the idea of things being on the bike that you have to pay extra for. If it costs money to put it on the bike then why are they putting it on the bike for it to potentially never be activated? Are people that do pay to unlock these features covering the cost of putting them on bikes where they aren't being activated?
With Chris. Don't put it on the bike if you want to cut costs.
The demo mode makes it easier and cheaper (for KTM and dealers) to get it, previously you had to go back to the dealer and wait for an hour to install it. Now it’s just to unlock it and done.
Have to agree with Chris, if it’s already on the bike why should you have to pay extra for it ? Rode a KTM for two years and when I went to change to the new model it was costing me an extra thousand pounds to get the full electronic package unlocked. Robbery ! Walked away and got the BMW s1000r for a far better deal with no hidden extras.
I agree with Chris. Nobody buys a standard GS, BMW just offers it so that the price of entry sounds artificially cheap. The same with KTM. Just make the best bike you can with everything on it for a fair price. It will cost more, but owners can't complain when they're getting the actual bike that they want.
Maybe substitute the track test for strapping a bag and touring/camping overnighter as its more likely what riders of all rounders want to know.
Wait until the next incarnation of the 790 is released, imagine how good that will be and you only have to wait 12 months, considering this is the third version of the 790 in 3 years and the original 790 was a banger bike.
KTM and BMW are marketing geniuses, the Apple of motorcycles.
I think the demo mode is a bit of a con. On the flip side, I wonder what the dealer would charge to fit the accessories if they weren’t on the bike?
When you do a ktm middleweight test, please take 2023 790 890 890R. Just wondering if the 790 will be as much spot in the middle as the 890 and at the other hand if one will regret forever not spending the money for the R suspension, even on road. Thanks. You are the best, especially on considering the fun part of biking
Boys, please, please, do that do-it-all test. Some of us only have space for / can have 1 bike at a time. That would be super appreciated
If you decide you don't want to enable the extra 'demo' features that KTM have disabled, can you opt to have all the kit that is not then being used to be removed before delivery? What is the point of carrying around any extra weight of redundant equipment?
From what I understand, there's nothing to actually physically change. It's purely electronic based
Never going to support a company that electronically locks features that are already on the bike.
So ktm are bringing back the 790duke and adventure I wonder how competitively pried they will be and will it effect used prices
Great review, stunning route 👍. Be interested to hear what you think of this compared to a Ducati Dessert X (ignoring the cost difference)
Do you have a GPX for the route you did....? Was that on the stock tyres?
The KTM is not going to loose money, with the bike if the owner doesn't want to pay for the modes/parts, the price already covers for all the parts and software installed , KTM is only charging for the parts and software for the second time.
Regarding demo mode - for me it is fine. I'm an IT guy so I do understand it. It is like having a computer but you must buy a program. You can't say that I already bought a computer so every program should be included. Besides, I bet that it is cheaper to do it this way (for KTM), vs making different assembly for each version.
The difference is that the upgrades fitted to the KTM are mainly driven by hardware, the managing software is not really where the development costs lay for most of the features. It's like buying a car with a V8 installed in it but only 4 cylinders work if you don't pay for the upgrade. The costs have been incurred by the manufacturer in the engines development, production and installation but the customer is prevented from its use. In fact it has cost more to add the software restrictions and 'demo' mode.
@@WestCoastVisitor I would kind of disagree and say the price is in the software. The hardware is on most bikes by now. (drive by wire, gyro sensors, ABS sensors).
But immagine how much work goes into making it work on 2 wheels as well as KTM has done. I can only compare the normal ABS from the T7 and to a 690 Enduro I tried. The KTM was so much better there is not even a comparison, makes the Yamaha feel like stone age tech. What makes the difference is the software imo, and how well KTM has figured out these systems. But I would still say it should just be on the bike as standard. And it was kind of a stupid marketing move when you look at all the outrage. The funny thing is that there would have probably been no outrage at all if there was no demo mode and the rider aids to be purchased without testing like it has been until now. The demo mode thing really rubbed people in the wrong way, because now they are actually taking away stuff which hurts psychologically I guess, before you just bought it extra and it seemed fine for people.
@@gbner9991 Speaking as a firmware software engineer for a hardware manufacturer I can say that the costs for developing most of that software was not on the same level as the costs of design and manufacture of, say, the quickshifter. Remember that the software development cost is a single expense and has a negligible cost for its replication, the manufactured items required are a cost per bike...times many thousand. The software is not on the same level as computer games or office products. The issue for KTM is not paying for the cost of the software, it is paying for the functionality which is mostly achieved by the equipment that is installed on each bike and which is not activated.
I see your point guys. I also can totally agree on it. Thing is that at the same time I’m super pleased that they didn’t make a car manufacturer trick with for example having you to pay for heated seat in a subscription model…
@@m4tblz I'm sure many would say that the heating elements are already in the seat so the manufacturing costs aren't the issue, what you are paying for is the software which switches the heating elements on and off. ;)
A bike IS suspension- brilliant suspension often means brilliant bike. I had a few early Multistrada’s, one had Ohlins and it was SO much a better bike than the non ohlins…
Every piece of technology is already on the bike, it means that you already paid for it, so the extra pay after 1.5k km is a scam.
I don’t t see anything wrong with KTM’s pricing structure. If they included all the electronics in the purchase price, people would just complain that they’d prefer to have the bike without the gadgets for less money.
Sure it’s already on the bike, but to me that’s a pretty smart way to keep everyone happy with a simple update at the dealer if an option is wanted. You want QS? Boom, you got it. You don’t…great, you didn’t have to pay for it.
What a thing. Imagining some Talon rims, big tail tidy and factory plastics
I'd probably have an 890 if KTM didn't also make the 690/701, which was a better fit for me (I've already got a 500lb'ish Tarmac focused ADV bike in the Multistrada, what I wanted was a lightweight dirt focused ADV bike and the 690 platform is the best starting point for that IMO).
Gas Gas 700 for nearly £2k less than those,you'd be mad not to buy red
It's a terrific bike, they clearly have listened to customer feedback and resolved any issues. Compare that to Honda with the much anticipated Trans Alp which isn't at all the bike most customers were hoping for. On the subject of Demo mode you could argue back and forth all day. On the 790 some features were standard fitment others not present at all, to have cruise control required ramp time at the dealers and addition of an upgraded component.
To save this hassle KTM built in the components and software but required a fee to enable them. Although this was quite a substantial sum most dealers would offer the package for half price and even KTM itself would do a promo where it was free. I can see the points for those who argue on both sides regarding giving it then holding it to ransom, which does seem rather exploitative. However I'm sure when you look at other manufacturers prices for fitting things like a quick shifter and heated grips, you're already well in excess of the price of enabling the full package.
I own the 2021 model 890 Adventure R I had the full package enabled for half price, along with the heated seats and a Remus exhaust. I'm very happy with the bike and delighted with the deal the dealership gave me. At least now others can try before they buy, so they know what suits their needs best. Those buying it second hand can also choose what suits them.
Having to pay extra for capabilities all ready loaded on the bike I just paid a pile of money for is BS. This is why I won’t ever buy a KTM. But then again, I like to ride my bikes not fix them.
The fact that the premium aids are already on the bike means that KTM doesn't need to make a base model bike. This can tremendously reduce manufacturing costs and time. You can buy the base model, and save up the money for the rider aids later on. I think that's fantastic.
yup
You guys were in my little town of Valado dos Frades. Hope you enjoyed your stay in Portugal. A little side note, would you recommend the 890 Adventure for someone who never done offroad? I have a Kawasaki Versys 650 but i'm looking at KTM at the moment and i'm almost sold to it
Price the modes into the bike; the demo mode/1.5km bait is an insult.
Great review, I would be very tempted by the bike...if only I could ride off-road!
I'm with Chris on the matter of payment to access functionality - it's a bit like having a 4 slot toaster but only being able to use 2 unless you pay extra (I was going to use a female-based 2 slot analogy, but thought that might be too crude 😉)
The funny thing is there would have probably been no outrage at all if you just had to buy the electronic suite extra without testing as it has been until now. The demo mode really rubbed people in the wrong way. Probably because now they are really making it apparent that the stuff is already on the bike and it's actively taking those features away 2 weeks after you just spend 14.000€ on a bike. I feel like the marketing department kind of messed up on this one. This bike seems basically the best middle weight ADV bike at the moment (at least most reviewers seemed to feel that way) and they managed to cloud that with this stupid demo-mode debacle.
Nah, the same outrage was there when you used to have to buy the "unlock-dongle".
spot on Chris, you should have all functions available all the time!! they have already sold you the tech locking you out is bollocks!
Problem with the old model, is it came with the wrong wheels, 19/17"combo would have been better, as the re -released 790 should come with?
If you do a ‘do it all’ test including track, you should also include MX track.
Tell us about the reliability though.... 😞
What would you choose out of this 890 Adventure R or the latest 1290 Super Adventure R?
have you tested the ducati desert x? if yes how would you compare this to the desert x or the triumph 900 rally pro? (looking into buy 1 of the 3... other options are acceptable too, since i do a lot of kms on road but want a bike that i can explore offroad and not worry about it)
It's not new that KTM(and BMW) charge extra for certain features. Only difference is now you can try before buy. I'd rather be able to check it out, than just buying it and not knowing if I want those features. I have owned a 1290 Adventure S for 2 years and haven't purchased the Teck Pack. It is a better position than paying more for the bike and not using the features.
105hpnis enough for almost everything.. but two up with luggage.. then it starts to lack power. I do notice that on my tuned SMT already..
Do you think there is such a big diffrence between 2022 and 2023 model. Is it worh to pay more to 2023? We can buy 2022 with too many accessories really needed on bike.
As an owner of an 2022 890 adventure standard... having adjustable front is super nice update. I don't have it & the rebound is way too low for my fat a**
Do manufacturers set up the suspension to suit the rider's weight on these launches?
100% with chris on this. It annoys me intensely that I have to pay to unlock something that's already on the bike. I have to unlock stuff I'm not interested in just to get a quick shifter for example. I've bought 7 new ktm's over the years. I have a GT in the garage and this is making me shy away from a new Super adventure. Not a good move KTM. Your client base is older with these models and we don't like have our pants pulled down. Not by you anyway.
Why can't you be more like Porsche? sell the base model and then spec what you want. I'll have bigger wheels and a parking camera as I'm shit at parking. The base car is all I will ever need.
The off road capability is pointless in the UK anyway. Off road in the Peak District is more like hard enduro. There's no open trails as per the test.
Top video as ever chaps.
Turn the bike off and having the same settings should be the default, but legal reasons.
Costs more to make different specs, so make 1 bike with the option to unlock features, some may not want X thing and another might.
So paying for the RnD is a thing.
really enjoyed your review! keep up the great work!
Which bike, Norden 901 or 890 Adventure?
Great review. 😊You loved the Norden 901 too. So which is better and why??
I was thinking the same thing…I’d love to see a comparison of the two.
There’s no way ktm haven’t already factored the tech packs into the bike when sold in stock form
It’s just them saying by the bike for a profit then come back and give us another grand
There is a big difference between a bike you have to live with and pay for if you f it up, and a freebie fun session where you don't care if you overdo it.
I always wondered. Can you not just unlock the paywall tech with an ecu flash?
@44_Teeth I've got a suprise for you as well. Choke on it. See you next tuesday
22.19 in, which Roman temple did those stones come from for that wall. i thought it was another Balbeck for a second
Where exactly was the route near Lisbon as it is awesome
As with all subscriptions, in next few years i can already see that 'base' 990 will come as A2 license spec. "Just pay few more grand to unlock 890 performance, its good value ! " :D
I hate the low down fuel tanks but I'm sure that's just me.
Reliability is always the elephant in the room - do you guys have any thoughts on that. Or would I be heading into a world of "Inherent Austrian Joy"...a dark world.
My only thought on the demo mode, 1500km, you're barely out of break in period, so will it really be tested / enjoyed??
money no option, would you take this 890 or ducati desert x ?
Did KTM just adopt the LCD and software from the Norden 901?
I understand where ktm are maybe coming from with the demo option electrics etc, but it's bullshit. If it costs too much to produce them on the bike for free, then why put them on the bike when no one uses them in the first place? Surely it would be more cost effective on their end making them separate add ons... doing this way is punishing the rider for buying the bike by rubbing their noses in it saying haha, you have this but you can't use it. If I bought a new ktm I'd strip them separate parts and send them back to ktm for money off the bikes overall cost. Honda's Transalp gives you the extras as all separate add ons, why not do the same?
how long before demo mode becomes a yearly prescription service?
After being in bed for a day being as sick as a dog THIS has cheered me right up!
Cheers for that, Gr8 vid. Spoke to my KTM dealer in Devon who said the 990 SMT parallel twin will be out nxt year, if its as good as this puppy .... x
Is this in the same class as the ducati x ? 🤔
Already felt like we were being scammed with the old payment model of unlocking stuff that’s already on it from the factory. This is just a new level of scam. Never defend a companies shady tactics.
Is the switchgear lighted?
great. so the question now is: this one or the norden? what you think about this? thank you from italy