I've had my '91 S4 since 2010 and am glad to see that others besides me are finally recognizing the tremendous value in these cars. It puts a smile on my face EVERY time I get behind the wheel!
I just bought '95 RHD, Manual, 928 GTS UK version - One of only 44 in the country (probably less than that after the amount that were scrapped) Going to spend £3-6k on it then sit on it for a few years and sell it. I was very fortunate I got one of the last one off the production line. Thanks or the vid, confirmed all my thoughts.
Great video and good information on the current market, I have a pristine 1987 944 N/A in the original Guards red paint ( over 100 hours of restoration in the paint alone) 67K miles on matching engine and transaxle with some nice Lindsey Racing performance bits and the Rasant chip. I love this car !
What is your thought on 1995 Porsche 968 coupe? Is it worth buying know or waiting 3 more years? Would you modify it to be more friendly during all season's daily driver (as your only car, that you will be driving and fixing, say next 15 years)?
Underrated. I passed on the 95 coupe about 4yrs ago for $15,000. Had 60K miles, guards red, champagne interior. Was mint. Their prices are rising along with 944s. But they built very few 968s. I would not put any money in a 944NA. So its down to a 951/S or 968. Tough call. But 968 for the same price is compelling just b/c of the numbers game. I prefer the coupes to cabs -- I too many cabs on the market -- built twice as many cabs as coupes anyway -- and the cab just introduces needless complexity and weight like a 944S2 Cab. I also dont like that the folded down cab top doesnt sit all the way inside the car. Its bulky in the back even with a tonneau cover. If you can find a 968 in a jelly bean color thats the ticket. Rubystone, Mint, anything unusual. It was the jelly bean years at PCNA so they are out there if you are patient. Depending on the premium, it might be worth the investment. But any good 968 with low to mid-low miles and exc condition is a solid bargain that won't lose money. Youl always get out what you have into it. They bottomed long ago and are only going to go up over time. The Variocam engine is one of Porsche's best. Instant power unlike the 951. I loved my 951. Id like to have another. But I think even Id try to find a 968 just on its unique 928 front end and low production count. Less than 2,500 coupes made it to North America.
I sold my 85 S because I couldn't stand the dog-leg shift pattern. I miss the actual car, in a beautiful Garnet Red with sport seats. I wish it had been an automatic.
35% of production (roughly) were 5 psd cars...surprising I know, but production numbers of the 5 Spider were far higher than most people think. The only Year where that was an exception was 1978... 90% of that model year was manual transmission! Shockingly only 10% of those 78's were automatic and yes the internal components of the auto were sourced from Mercedes and placed in a Porsche specific casing!
I own an '85 928 and had a 79 Euro Spec 928. While AT 928s are more commonplace, the 5 speed really transforms the driving experience. With the auto, it is a relaxed grand tourer. With the 5 speed, it is a far more aggressive car. The best model in terms of bang/buck is probably the 86.5. It has all the underpinnings of the s4 but in an s body. The '85-86 models have a 4 valve/cylinder motor same as the s4, just a little lower on power(290 vs 326 hp) It is easy to bump the hp on the 85 to 86 models to be actually higher than the s4 because the s3(85-86 models) has a hotter cam, but they had to limit the revs because stock it gets fuel starved at high rpm. Fix that issue by swapping in an 87 fuel pressure regulator and it will make up the HP differential plus a bit.
All excellent points. Mostly comes down to styling. I prefer the S4+ but thats only my eyes doing the talking. If I found a cherry garage queen 86 or prior I would give it due diligence and take a look at it.
ChrisWorldTV Hi Chris loved your video I brought a928s in January 2014 $7,500 Aus and have been offered 4 times that amount for it already but will be keeping it for a while longer yet
What do you think about 928S 5 speed manual 1982? The same thing as for S4? I have same toughts like you about S4 but about 928S i am little bit sceptical. Thanks for your answer. Thumbs up!
The S4 and later I thoroughly dig. I think its the kind of car that looks better in person than in photos. I feel the same way about my Cayman. It looks a little odd in 2D.
Admittedly not an expert on Strosek. My guess is it will appeal to a more narrow audience so assessing value might be more difficult. But to the right buyer the exclusivity might matter. If it was done to a high standard, has paperwork, and such, you are probably in good shape. The overall condition of the car itself will still command the main bucks so whatever is attached to it should be as good or better.
I have an opportunity to get a '79 928 manual. For $2k. Seller is upfront about it needing a head gasket. Would it be worth getting since it's the old 4.5L?
No idea how much head gaskets cost. Admittedly $2K is cheap risk for an early 928 manual. At worst you could probably part it out for that if you wanted to bother yourself with that albatross. I still tend to follow the "buy the nicest example you can afford" because of all the hidden what-ifs. But if you are mechanically inclined this might be the car for you. Again, $2K isnt $20K. If you could live with flushing $2K down the sink at the calculated risk of finding a cheap fixer upper that will save you countless thousands, it may be a risk you are willing to take.
@@ChrisWorldTV Well, it turns out the hedge gasket was the only thing they were upfront about. It was missing the radiator, AC components, and entire air intake system. I passed on it.
Unless you're a Porsche Master Tech, these project cars can quickly go down the rabbit hole and spiral out of control. Always best to pay for a car someone else already fixed b/c its pennies on the dollar for you.
Whats with these dumb prices I can buy 928s all day long from $2000-$5000. A s4 no more then 7k- 11k. The only ones that go for over 20 grand is the gts or late gt. The 928 will never be worth alot like the 911 lol. The gts will be the only one worth alot.
+Jason DiLeone - $2k-$5k buys you junk. High mileage, thrashed interiors, thrashed engine compartments. Check out Bring a Trailer website, do a search there for 928 and see what nice cars go for now. They are escalating.
Excellent video. But 5 years have gone and the prices haven't gone up. Meanwhile the aircooled 911, 964 and 993 prices have become astronomical. Guess the 928 predictions weren't correct. But that's good...it's a great car and can be bought cheaper.
This car is underrated, all things come and go and this one is going to make a big comeback. The design scares some people off yet trends come back as history teaches us. Prices are acceptable now, they will explode soon. I had a 924 till a year ago, had to sell it due to moving and no garage to work on it. If only I had the money to buy a 928... 2 Years ago there was 2-3 decent video's on youtube featuring a 928. Now reviews start popping up en masse.
The revised model will arrive in 2024 Porsche 928 Nardone. A modern version of the 928. There will only be 8 available, and the price is a whopping $500,000... I don't like the headlamps. They are not part of the vehicles body. The mechanism that holds the lamps together are pieces of metal. They look like satellite dishes. I think the headlamps are very ugly. They look like satellite dishes. 😮🤢
1985-86 S"3" is actually one of the rarest of all the 928 variants. It had the 5 liter 32 valve 288 hp motor with the original design front and rear (& imho better looking) bumpers & lights. This was virtually the same engine that was used in the S4. Less than 10k were produced for the world market in those 2 years. 85-86 cars were also the first to be fitted with the much better Borg Warner 5 speed manual transmission. With only 12% of 928's fitted with the manual transmission, the 85-86 32 valve 5 speed is a very rare car indeed. P.S. 89-91 GT's were the only manual alternative to the S4 automatic, & 2,078 were built in those 3 yrs as per (the smallest slice of) this videos pie chart... Manual 85-86 S3's production numbers would be even less at roughly 1,200 when applying the above mentioned figures to math.
When I was 24 I bought my first Porsche in 1985, a used 924 Turbo that cost me $25 thousand. Wow, I loved it. The 928 was the car that first made me a Porsche freak. I bought my first new Porsche, a 911 in 1988 and skipped over entirely the 928. Over the years I've owned 9 911s, a Cayenne and 2 Macans. I finally bough a 928 this summer - an '89, red GT with only 16 thousand miles on it. Cost me $88 thousand dollars and there's not a thing about it that doesn't appear like a brand new car. Everything is mint. I put another $15 thousand into the parts and service it needed and I was blown away when I first drove it. It looks big but drives like a smaller sports car. I'm only going to drive it every other day during the summer months to keep the mileage down.
Although I agree with your evaluation, I think you miss the mark slightly by focusing primarily on the S4 for appreciation. I see a lot of upside for the "OB" models ('78-9), which are considered "purer" styling and have much more '70s flair, which was the era they were designed. The design & styling was much further beyond anything else offered at that time, and while the 928 was still great in the late '80s and '90s, that gap with the competition had narrowed considerably. The early cars were shocking when you saw them on the road; the later cars were merely admired. Another huge factor is how easy it is for a typical enthusiast to work on his own car. Although it's not impossible to work on a later 928, the earliest ones are vastly easier to wrench on in your own garage, and a bit more forgiving. You do NOT want a timing belt to break on any car, but while it's possible to recover from that in an early 928, it's going to be disastrous in anything '85+ "Buy the best example you can afford" should be the 928 mantra. Deferred maintenance is a killer and you'd be underwater quickly if someone GAVE you a car that needed engine or transmission work. Likewise, restoring those beautiful leather interiors can end up costing more than you paid for the car. There's even a few pieces of plastic interior trim that can quickly add up to thou$ands!Personally, I see more up-side in an early 5-speed than a later automatic. It really does make it a different car. The best combination, IMHO, is a '78 5-speed, RoW (Euro) with no sunroof or rub-strips, with that wild "pascha" interior and in a funky '70s color (i.e., not red, black, or silver... too common). Look for unusual, original, and striking color combos.For more than a decade, we've seen 928s neglected and deteriorating, and now that the rising tide is starting to lift these, they are positioned to really appreciate.
Hopefully, you will. Just save for one. My x gave me a 1987 928 as a gift, in th summer of 1993. One day he asked to borrow it in which he totaled it drunk driving. Now 30 years later, I saved enough to buy one next week. Jun 21 2023. I can't wait.
Great video! It's about time that people recognize the car for what it really is: the last hand built car that rolled off the Porsche factory assembly line. Bought my GTS in 2003 with 100 kmls, needed nothing and was given to me for € 14k. Now 14 years later and at 155 kmls it is still as enjoyable and solid. I drive it whenever possible and it is a true daily driver even after 25 years (MY 1992). With correct maintenance and preventive maintenance this car is just great. But you either work on them on your own and you know what you are doing, or you will encounter two problems: finding a shop that has a clue about this car and sufficient funds to keep it in good shape. If you think about buying one, go to the Rennlist 928 forum. Great people and experts that know this car inside and out (before you make a decision on buying one IMHO).
yep always loved the typical porsche but when the 928s turned up! dont even car how they run... they are sizeable sleek and very fab pretty tall people can own one and annalog sweet.
Other than the gearbox, what makes a GT is the higher compression pistons and hotter cams. The GT came with hotter cams than the S4 or GTS, the profile resemble the cam profiles used on the 85-86 32 valve cars. Hence why people would buy 85-86 cams, have them modified to be installed in a S4 or GTS head. With the right tune and exhaust worth about 30 HP gain maybe more. The GT did suffer from using soft valve springs (I think they are the same ones used on the S4 and GTS) that would result in the lifters chewing up the nose of the more aggressive cam profile. The fix is to use 944 S2 stiffer valve springs. If you find a GT with a S4 motor its practically a manual S4 and would really hurt the value. The engine VIN used on the GT was different than the S4. Also the GT engines were supposedly more carefully assembled! The problem with the 85-86 32 valve cars despite having hotter cams is the smaller diameter exhaust and intake valves, which you can not swap in S4/GT/GTS valves since the head design is different. The 87-95 valves are shorter if I remember correctly. Many 928 aficionados say that the 85-86 32 valve cars were test years for the 32 valve design, not many production street cars back then had a 4 valve head... AS for THE GTS, in the 928 circles some believe that it was the reason why the 928 died. 928s always had problems with their oiling system design. It got worse when the cylinder bore size increased and when they went with twin cam design. The oil sump is too short for 8 quarts of oil (remember all 928s are wet sump design vs dry sump on the same era 911s). This design caused a lot of oil churning in the crankcase resulting in the oil not being able to drain back to the sump from the heads at high RPM, overfilling them all the way to the top of the cam cover, then that would result in the intake sucking some oil from the oil breather tubes coming from the cam covers reducing power output since now your fuel/air mixture is mixed with engine oil. There is always a puddle of oil in the bottom of the intake. This also results in the failure of #2 and #6 rod bearings during aggressive driving at high RPM, like on a track day due to reduced amount of remaining oil in the sump. If anything the reliability of the engine went down when they came out with 32 valve engines. More electric stuff like sensors to go wrong and more oil burning issues due to increased engine displacement and volume in the wider heads. There is actually a kit out there called the oil pan spacer to help in moving the oil in the sump away from the crankshaft to reduce this oil churning. Obviously this will get the already low oil pan closer to the ground. When the GTS first came out in 92, they tried to fix the problem (now the 5.4 liter has a bigger stroke crankshaft getting closer to the oil in the short sump) by changing the crankcase breather design, but it failed. It made everything worse, there is detail discussion about this on 928 Rennlist forum. The GTS model is well known to consume 1 quart of oil every 500-800 miles, many discussions out there on how to "patch" this problem. For comparison a GT or S4 may consume 1 quart of oil in 2,500-3000 miles...What Porsche did that is the main cause for this high oil consumption on the GTS is they did NOT drill the oil drain back holes behind the oiling ring in the piston ring groove (all 8 of them). This resulted in the oil not being able to drain back and end up in it burning on top of the piston, building up carbon deposit to the point that it would increase compression significantly. This caused pinging making a $100,000 car un-driveable. Its been said that back in the day on the autobahn at high speeds/RPMs a GTS with a full tank of gas would run out of oil before using all the fuel in the tank! To fix this problem properly (getting to the pistons to drill the 8 missing oil drain back holes on each piston) a full tear down of the engine is required. As a result a lot of engines were replaced for the GTS models under warranty, either for sever pinging or detonation making the car un-driveable or failed connecting rod due to running out of oil or added stress from pinging and detonation. The replacement engines had the same problem because Porsche never added the missing oil drain back holes on the piston, so it was never fixed. Most GTS owners hate talking about this subject out of fear of bringing the value of their car down. Almost all got into a GTS without knowing these problems before hand. I suspect that there are a few 928 GTS out there that do not have the original matching numbers engine. The other models before the GTS still have the same short sump problem but they have the shorter stroke crankshaft and they DO have all the oil drain back holes behind the oil ring on the pistons drilled like it should be on any piston with an oiling ring. Also if you look up Porsche Technical bulletin 9401 it talks about changing spaghetti thin connecting rods used on the 92-93 and some of the 94 928 GTS models. These R1 rods are known to bend into an S shape for being weak to handle stock power and torque, more of a problem on the manual GTS since they can reach higher RPMs more often due to nature of the way some like to drive a manual. The cheap fix for Porsche was to slightly reinforce the bottom of the rod neck, designated as R2 rods. Still a weak design but it can handle the engine power fine. You just can't add a turbo kit or supercharger like people do with the S4 or GT models. I'm sure Porsche had to change some engines due to the R1 rods failing, hence coming up with R2 rods close to end of production. They never did make this a recall. But its due to these short comings of the GTS engine that people think it contributed to bad sales. Most new owners buying these are not aware of these problems. In 928 circles a 93 or early 94 is less desirable than a late 94 or 95 due to this connecting rod issue. Few years ago the price difference was about $10,000 between a late 94 and a 93. As a quick visual check on a 94 GTS for sale add, if it originally came with cup I wheels like the 92-93 models, it will have the R1 connecting rods. If it originally came with cup II wheels its more than likely to have the reinforced R2 connecting rods like all the 95 models short of checking the engine VIN. In either case all 928 GTS engines need a full tear down/rebuild regardless of miles to drill the missing oil drain back holes on each piston (and to change the R1 rods to R2 rods per the Technical Bulletin if a 92-94 car). Also the oil breather setup should be changed back to a S4/GT setup to maintain stock look and better crankcase breathing. There are aftermarket oil/air separator and crankcase vacuum pumps to help with crank case pressure if decided to go with a better than stock solution. The problem with this GTS piston problem is many things can go wrong during an engine rebuild and there are not many 928 mechanics that qualify to do a careful disassembly and rebuild of a 928 engine. The only thing that made a GTS better than the S4 or GT IMO was the rear bulged out quarter panels, it completes the 928 wide stance and matches perfectly to the already wide looking front fenders. The aero mirrors are a nice touch as well to the updated look, read somewhere on rennlist that they supposedly add 3 mph to the top speed. I do agree with you that the best buy for the 32 valve cars is the S4 model, they are robust, have non of the weak engine problems of the GTS and you can install supercharger or turbo kits without worrying about the engine failing mechanically. The earlier 87-88 928 S4s are more raw than the 89-91 models. Less electronics, no airbags (90-91 had airbags), less sound deadening, more likely to find one with rear AC delete (slightly lighter due to these). Also as a last note the automatic transmissions are more robust than the manual transmission cars as long as all the oil doesn't leak out from aging seals. The manual transmissions are known to lose their gear teeth when you start adding power and beating on it. Not a problem for the Mercedes sourced automatic transmission, you just have to keep up with 25,000-50,000 mile oil changes. The manuals do not shift very well and the feel is very mushy, an old Honda civic shifts much better, which is reason why I think most people just ordered an automatic. The shifting is just not crisp and smooth like it should be. I'm sure if it shifted like a 944 or 911 they would have sold more manuals...
At 9:42 "much more integrated...graceful,...".....Uh, no.....One individuals vision of the 928, ruined by another guys idea to "improve" the looks......Lets all see how much better it can look...NO, those beautiful taillights absolutely fucked up, "improved", with the "newness"......when will the design houses learn?.....The first versions,..without the bean-counters interference, or regulatory meddling.....will be the best style.....not the later tweakers who seem bent on "improving" someone elses vision...
996TT (911 Turbo) prices are still absurdly low, less than 1/2 of new MRSP price, for no good reason, since the 996 Turbo model does not have the IMS bearing issue existing on all 996 models. I do agree the 928's have potential to increase in value significantly .. into 6 figures within next 15-20 years.
Actually the 78-82 cars were slugguish dogs, unlike the movie indicated. You want a fast 928 you need an S4, GT, GTS. Even my 1986 928S got blown away by a Honda Civic Si or Elantra Turbo. Sad.
Chris, GREAT in-depth video! I am seriously considering swapping my pristine '87 944 for a 928. I'm looking for either an early manual example or a late '80's auto. The later manuals are as rare as hen's teeth. Thank you for your info and thoughts. It's really helping to inform me of my decision!
I totally agree with your point of view, I bought my 1988 928 S4 in 2014, I drove it for about 10.000 km since and it is such an incredible car even compared to many of the sports car that are sell nowadays. Apart from that, it is indeed a bargain and an incredible value for money.
Bought a 87 S4 in 1993, still have it in 2021: rock solid, fast, smooth, stunningly beautiful, a head-turner: so glad not to have a 911, too many of them everywhere. Great family car too, when the kidd were young. Puts a smile and a grin on my face each time I take it for a spin.
I can buy an 87 46k miles clean all records current owner has only put 2000 miles in 5yr comes with new dash and pod front seats were redone 15k l know it's a exellent deal working to come up with funds one of my favorite cars 87 especially
just checked what 928s are going in the UK and a really clean one is going for up to 60000 sterling, and higher mileage examples as low as 10000. does this work out similar to the US market?
84 Euro, 4.7 320hp (ZZZ ROW cars) , the 16v motors sound better! and there more reliable because the belts dont destroy the motor like a 32v when they fail, The 84 came with the 4sp Auto, the 84 also has the original body and personally I prefer that older body over the newer ones as its in the movies like Scarface,Weird.. Science,Risky Business.. So basicly the S2 has the best Gearbox, Best sounding motor and similar power (320hp from the 4.7 16v) and that pure original Body without the soft Aero look of s4. You also must note..besides the S1,S2,S3 original body being the one shown in all the movies, its also is a MUCH older car, and therefore now harder to find a good one! So IMO that makes all the OB ( original body) cars the pick, I just feel the reliable 4.7 16v with 320hp ,and its engine note is better than the 32v 5.0litre, Plus the S2 had 4sp Auto is the pick of the litter overall
These days very few cars are labelled as pure GT cars. They're usually just called "sports cars" or "luxury sports cars", with the only real brands making grand tourers being Aston Martin and Bentley. Everyone else is making sports cars that can work as GTs. The 928, though, it a grand tourer in the purest sense. It wasn't meant to lap the Nürbugring as fast as possible, or be as light and flashy as possible. It was meant to go on very long road trips at very high speeds in comfort. That's it. The 911 Turbo was a more exciting car, but the 928 offered the same performance just in a different package. No pendulum oversteer, no flat-six howl, no turbo lag. It was just a calm, sonorous V8 roar and neutral handling with no surprises. I love the 928s, and I think most people don't because they don't look as exciting, and don't offer the hair-on-fire thrills that a 911 would. They're missing out on a fantastic automobile. Not to mention these things will last forever if maintained. (I once met an owner who had to get rid of his 928 track car after 400,000 miles) If you can handle the running costs and follow the maintenance schedule religiously, they're pretty much bulletproof.
I have a clean 1980 928 with around 50,000 miles that lives in my garage. I'm hoping that as the "S4" models go up, maybe the 80 will go up a little too. At least people are talking about 928's now. When I bought mine 15 years ago I parked it in my driveway the UPS guy told me he once saw one at a junk yard and always wondered what kind of car it was . I bought it because I love the car and never really thought it would be worth too much in my lifetime. Maybe that's changing.
My grandpa has a manual '85 928 s with less than 100k miles in perfect shape, bought new in Germany with full leather interior and lots of extras like A/C and stuff and he wants to sell it for 12000€, is it a fair price? Im telling him just to wait a bit more. Sad thing is that he had a 930 turbo before that, but ended up selling it because he got scared of it, if he had kept it...I would be the happiest man on earth, the 928 is just too big
@@billystutz55 if you buy make sure get the best sample or dont even get it. only the nice samples are good ones if you see fix up etc crappy ones do not buy it . they will coast you more than the car and yet still will be crap and not original.
There's a few in my town in Long Island. This guy has a mint guards red 928 S4 in stick. Most of them are auto though. A local dealer not far away has a red S4 but in auto. Another guy here has a black 928 GTS O_o
My father favorite car and i think ferrari heh but Porsche must do sport cars not like family cars the name is so big my father knows all about this cars he is 70year old knows everythink about this cars ..i,m sad that Porsche do like family cars not like sportcars anymore ...why......i think this very bad for Porsche why they dont wanna do good cars because name is so big and Porsche could be like Ferrari...but not now ...and i think that nazi think hits to Porsche but it.s only car and very good one and Mercedes is now the one but it never beat the name Porsche ;) i think Judish agree me cars dont do nothing and i think most of all were judish who make those cars ;) i think so
Rarity also effects supply and demand for replacement parts and finding a mechanic familiar with the cars. Personally I would rather buy something new and more common like an M2 or something.
Chris, listening to the production right now. I have owned 12 really nice 928's at once and I'm down to 8 right now. Great job on the facts. Actual US sales just over 26,000, GTS production for the US was ONLY 406 from 93-95. No 1992 GTS were imported to the US. I have the only one currently registered in the US! The very last US GTS (#77) had a window sticker of $183,xxx! It had every thing custom you could imagine.
I have an '88 S4 5-speed track car, a '91 GT garage queen and an '07 FJ. Do I win? ;) Aside from appreciating values, what the 928 and FJ also share is build quality. Build quality is legendary for both vehicles, IMO. Chris, well researched videos! I'm going to take a look at some of your other automotive picks...
Great presentation, I completely agree with your analysis. I will however make a couple of side points, I'm not arguing mind you, lol. I feel that the market for the 944 Turbo (951) Is set to take off quicker than the 928 in general ( I am speaking to a specific model like the S4) The production numbers on the 951 are relativity low and they for the most part are 5 speed cars,. I feel the manual transmission coupled with the really pretty good performance numbers of the 951 will cause it to climb in price before the 928. Of course this is pure speculation as you stated and of course I may be a bit biased as I own a 951, lol. Part of the reason I say this is also that the starting point is lower therefore I think (speculation again) it may have more room to grow. Just subbed by the way.
Would be interesting to know what my 928 is worth. My insurance company cannot seem to tell me. I have a '85 928 S2 Euro spec 310+ hp right hand drive 4 speed auto. Full books and 134 000 km's on the clock ( 83000 miles )
Hi (and thanks for the vid) I bought my mint 2 owner -89 S4 (170t kms) in 2015. Paid 18 k€ (in Finland) and now have a deal with my insurance company about the worth of 25k€
S2 is underrated. Didnt build many either. You do get the Turbo body. I still prefer the Turbos for long-term asset retention just because of their performance and provenance -- real or perceived.
Listening to your market evaluation... $30k would get you a decent driver (high miles) GTS or THE NICEST S4 on the market. You can get really decent driver (or local show) S4's for just under $20k! That said, desireabilty is not there for the 928 and I don't see it coming back any time soon. It's been undervalued for 20 years! That's why I started collecting them! The ones to buy are the '78 and GTS! After that those the S4! Up till last year I had all four model years of GTS! Sold my GTS in January of 2016.
No way in my area will $30K buy the nicest S4 on the market. Perhaps 2-3yrs ago. Maybe not even $35K depending on the listings. In fact I gave up looking, having passed on dozens if not hundreds. Im talking cars in the 50-70K mile range, cosmetically nearly perfect, interior nearly perfect, local concours or show winner with documentation and receipts back to the original owner. A car that needs next to nothing and has been a second or third car for every previous owner. If you have one of these for $30K in your fleet, Im sure one of the channel followers will offer you cash for it. Heck I even might! As for GTSs, the only ones Im seeing for less than $50-60K are either roached out or almost 100K miles (or more). You are smart to have a bunch of them. They are undervalued but rising. The chance to get in while the getting is good will come to and end. Probably sooner than folks realize too.
ChrisWorldTV...you are not looking in the right places then! You give me $30k or even $70k and I'll find you a super sweet automatic S4 and GTS and pocket the leftovers. I could barely sell my near perfect 58k mile '94 GTS for $40k a year ago... six months ago it made two flips and got up to $50k and I can assure you neither the dealer who bought it nor the flipper made even close to 10%... last sale took it to $50k. About market correct.
Nobody said they weren't. I merely provided my favorites based on price/availability. Its no longer an investment collectible however if the market has already accounted for it. You don't buy after the run-up (GTS manuals).
ChrisWorldTV A major engine boost came in 1985 with the 5.0 32 valve not 1987 with 288hp up from 240hp not as powerful as the 1987 316hp engine but was lighter and still had the desirable old body style vs the 1987 lexus 300SC rear end. Don't get me wrong, all 928s are great cars but collectors go with the first and last year's and the rare ones. I should've included the 1987 and 91GT. Nice video ☺
I've been looking into these cars on and off. Many people consider them the poor mans Porsche to the 911. I'm seriously thinking of buying into one I've seen an auto 1988 for less than $13,000 with high mileage but good condition local to me on the market. I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking these cars were awesome in their day.
I've had my '91 S4 since 2010 and am glad to see that others besides me are finally recognizing the tremendous value in these cars. It puts a smile on my face EVERY time I get behind the wheel!
I had a 1978 Manual until last year, and now have a 1984 Manual.... fantastic car and fantastic noise!
I just bought '95 RHD, Manual, 928 GTS UK version - One of only 44 in the country (probably less than that after the amount that were scrapped) Going to spend £3-6k on it then sit on it for a few years and sell it. I was very fortunate I got one of the last one off the production line. Thanks or the vid, confirmed all my thoughts.
One of my favorite cars. We are currently restoring a 85' 928S and also have two 87' S4's. Great cars!
Great video and good information on the current market, I have a pristine 1987 944 N/A in the original Guards red paint ( over 100 hours of restoration in the paint alone)
67K miles on matching engine and transaxle with some nice Lindsey Racing performance bits and the Rasant chip. I love this car !
Best looking car ever made, bar none. IMHO.
I had the 928 1983 before
And now I have the 911 sc 1984
To me I love the v 8 928 is trong and fast morthen the 911.
What is your thought on 1995 Porsche 968 coupe?
Is it worth buying know or waiting 3 more years?
Would you modify it to be more friendly during all season's daily driver (as your only car, that you will be driving and fixing, say next 15 years)?
Underrated. I passed on the 95 coupe about 4yrs ago for $15,000. Had 60K miles, guards red, champagne interior. Was mint. Their prices are rising along with 944s. But they built very few 968s. I would not put any money in a 944NA. So its down to a 951/S or 968. Tough call. But 968 for the same price is compelling just b/c of the numbers game. I prefer the coupes to cabs -- I too many cabs on the market -- built twice as many cabs as coupes anyway -- and the cab just introduces needless complexity and weight like a 944S2 Cab. I also dont like that the folded down cab top doesnt sit all the way inside the car. Its bulky in the back even with a tonneau cover. If you can find a 968 in a jelly bean color thats the ticket. Rubystone, Mint, anything unusual. It was the jelly bean years at PCNA so they are out there if you are patient. Depending on the premium, it might be worth the investment. But any good 968 with low to mid-low miles and exc condition is a solid bargain that won't lose money. Youl always get out what you have into it. They bottomed long ago and are only going to go up over time. The Variocam engine is one of Porsche's best. Instant power unlike the 951. I loved my 951. Id like to have another. But I think even Id try to find a 968 just on its unique 928 front end and low production count. Less than 2,500 coupes made it to North America.
I miss my 928 s4 stick...car was phenomenal
I sold my 85 S because I couldn't stand the dog-leg shift pattern. I miss the actual car, in a beautiful Garnet Red with sport seats. I wish it had been an automatic.
why would anyone want an auto sports car?
You clearly haven't driven the 928 in auto, it was made for it. If you want to drag race row the shifter. This car is a high speed cruiser.
35% of production (roughly) were 5 psd cars...surprising I know, but production numbers of the 5 Spider were far higher than most people think. The only Year where that was an exception was 1978... 90% of that model year was manual transmission! Shockingly only 10% of those 78's were automatic and yes the internal components of the auto were sourced from Mercedes and placed in a Porsche specific casing!
I own an '85 928 and had a 79 Euro Spec 928. While AT 928s are more commonplace, the 5 speed really transforms the driving experience. With the auto, it is a relaxed grand tourer. With the 5 speed, it is a far more aggressive car. The best model in terms of bang/buck is probably the 86.5. It has all the underpinnings of the s4 but in an s body.
The '85-86 models have a 4 valve/cylinder motor same as the s4, just a little lower on power(290 vs 326 hp) It is easy to bump the hp on the 85 to 86 models to be actually higher than the s4 because the s3(85-86 models) has a hotter cam, but they had to limit the revs because stock it gets fuel starved at high rpm. Fix that issue by swapping in an 87 fuel pressure regulator and it will make up the HP differential plus a bit.
All excellent points. Mostly comes down to styling. I prefer the S4+ but thats only my eyes doing the talking. If I found a cherry garage queen 86 or prior I would give it due diligence and take a look at it.
ChrisWorldTV Hi Chris loved your video I brought a928s in January 2014 $7,500 Aus and have been offered 4 times that amount for it already but will be keeping it for a while longer yet
such a great sounding car
What do you think about 928S 5 speed manual 1982? The same thing as for S4? I have same toughts like you about S4 but about 928S i am little bit sceptical. Thanks for your answer. Thumbs up!
Funny you post this video because I have been looking a this car for a while now, idk if I can really get into the looks of it though
The S4 and later I thoroughly dig. I think its the kind of car that looks better in person than in photos. I feel the same way about my Cayman. It looks a little odd in 2D.
sick car
There Is No Substitute....
It was also in Weird Science...
I'm glad I found you
and Im glad we found each other. Woof.
k9cop14 i
Oh and never seen any of the movies I'm a car nut before I was born
Hello, nice video! Do you think it is a good value to go with a nice 928 STROSEK, 1984 66000km for 20000€?
thank you
Admittedly not an expert on Strosek. My guess is it will appeal to a more narrow audience so assessing value might be more difficult. But to the right buyer the exclusivity might matter. If it was done to a high standard, has paperwork, and such, you are probably in good shape. The overall condition of the car itself will still command the main bucks so whatever is attached to it should be as good or better.
I have an opportunity to get a '79 928 manual. For $2k. Seller is upfront about it needing a head gasket. Would it be worth getting since it's the old 4.5L?
No idea how much head gaskets cost. Admittedly $2K is cheap risk for an early 928 manual. At worst you could probably part it out for that if you wanted to bother yourself with that albatross. I still tend to follow the "buy the nicest example you can afford" because of all the hidden what-ifs. But if you are mechanically inclined this might be the car for you. Again, $2K isnt $20K. If you could live with flushing $2K down the sink at the calculated risk of finding a cheap fixer upper that will save you countless thousands, it may be a risk you are willing to take.
@@ChrisWorldTV Well, it turns out the hedge gasket was the only thing they were upfront about. It was missing the radiator, AC components, and entire air intake system. I passed on it.
Unless you're a Porsche Master Tech, these project cars can quickly go down the rabbit hole and spiral out of control. Always best to pay for a car someone else already fixed b/c its pennies on the dollar for you.
Does anyone know if the S4 came with aluminum door skins and hood?
Yes, aluminum doors, fenders, and hood. The quarters and top are steel.
This was my dream car until I finally had the chance to own one. 1987 Porsche 928 s4, worst car I ever owned and it took me owning one to say that...
let me guess you bought the crappy one lol and you could not maintenance bec you think it was like toyota lol
Whats with these dumb prices I can buy 928s all day long from $2000-$5000. A s4 no more then 7k- 11k. The only ones that go for over 20 grand is the gts or late gt. The 928 will never be worth alot like the 911 lol. The gts will be the only one worth alot.
+Jason DiLeone - $2k-$5k buys you junk. High mileage, thrashed interiors, thrashed engine compartments. Check out Bring a Trailer website, do a search there for 928 and see what nice cars go for now. They are escalating.
Excellent video. But 5 years have gone and the prices haven't gone up. Meanwhile the aircooled 911, 964 and 993 prices have become astronomical. Guess the 928 predictions weren't correct. But that's good...it's a great car and can be bought cheaper.
This car is underrated, all things come and go and this one is going to make a big comeback. The design scares some people off yet trends come back as history teaches us.
Prices are acceptable now, they will explode soon. I had a 924 till a year ago, had to sell it due to moving and no garage to work on it. If only I had the money to buy a 928...
2 Years ago there was 2-3 decent video's on youtube featuring a 928. Now reviews start popping up en masse.
The revised model will arrive in 2024 Porsche 928 Nardone. A modern version of the 928. There will only be 8 available, and the price is a whopping $500,000... I don't like the headlamps. They are not part of the vehicles body. The mechanism that holds the lamps together are pieces of metal. They look like satellite dishes. I think the headlamps are very ugly. They look like satellite dishes. 😮🤢
1985-86 S"3" is actually one of the rarest of all the 928 variants. It had the 5 liter 32 valve 288 hp motor with the original design front and rear (& imho better looking) bumpers & lights. This was virtually the same engine that was used in the S4. Less than 10k were produced for the world market in those 2 years. 85-86 cars were also the first to be fitted with the much better Borg Warner 5 speed manual transmission. With only 12% of 928's fitted with the manual transmission, the 85-86 32 valve 5 speed is a very rare car indeed. P.S. 89-91 GT's were the only manual alternative to the S4 automatic, & 2,078 were built in those 3 yrs as per (the smallest slice of) this videos pie chart... Manual 85-86 S3's production numbers would be even less at roughly 1,200 when applying the above mentioned figures to math.
Norm Sallitt , I have a 1980 928S Euro with the 4.7 with 310 hp
Norm Sallitt I have number 0052, the 52nd 928 built. It's a VERY rare 5 speed no sunroof.... and it's only got 70k miles on it.
Norm Sallitt sweet, I own an 86
When I was 24 I bought my first Porsche in 1985, a used 924 Turbo that cost me $25 thousand. Wow, I loved it. The 928 was the car that first made me a Porsche freak. I bought my first new Porsche, a 911 in 1988 and skipped over entirely the 928. Over the years I've owned 9 911s, a Cayenne and 2 Macans. I finally bough a 928 this summer - an '89, red GT with only 16 thousand miles on it. Cost me $88 thousand dollars and there's not a thing about it that doesn't appear like a brand new car. Everything is mint. I put another $15 thousand into the parts and service it needed and I was blown away when I first drove it. It looks big but drives like a smaller sports car. I'm only going to drive it every other day during the summer months to keep the mileage down.
Although I agree with your evaluation, I think you miss the mark slightly by focusing primarily on the S4 for appreciation. I see a lot of upside for the "OB" models ('78-9), which are considered "purer" styling and have much more '70s flair, which was the era they were designed. The design & styling was much further beyond anything else offered at that time, and while the 928 was still great in the late '80s and '90s, that gap with the competition had narrowed considerably. The early cars were shocking when you saw them on the road; the later cars were merely admired. Another huge factor is how easy it is for a typical enthusiast to work on his own car. Although it's not impossible to work on a later 928, the earliest ones are vastly easier to wrench on in your own garage, and a bit more forgiving. You do NOT want a timing belt to break on any car, but while it's possible to recover from that in an early 928, it's going to be disastrous in anything '85+ "Buy the best example you can afford" should be the 928 mantra. Deferred maintenance is a killer and you'd be underwater quickly if someone GAVE you a car that needed engine or transmission work. Likewise, restoring those beautiful leather interiors can end up costing more than you paid for the car. There's even a few pieces of plastic interior trim that can quickly add up to thou$ands!Personally, I see more up-side in an early 5-speed than a later automatic. It really does make it a different car. The best combination, IMHO, is a '78 5-speed, RoW (Euro) with no sunroof or rub-strips, with that wild "pascha" interior and in a funky '70s color (i.e., not red, black, or silver... too common). Look for unusual, original, and striking color combos.For more than a decade, we've seen 928s neglected and deteriorating, and now that the rising tide is starting to lift these, they are positioned to really appreciate.
I am fully agree with you!!!
The 928 has been my dream car since I was a kid, since the moment I saw a picture of one. If only I could afford one. Thanks.
Hopefully, you will. Just save for one. My x gave me a 1987 928 as a gift, in th summer of 1993. One day he asked to borrow it in which he totaled it drunk driving. Now 30 years later, I saved enough to buy one next week. Jun 21 2023. I can't wait.
Great video! It's about time that people recognize the car for what it really is: the last hand built car that rolled off the Porsche factory assembly line. Bought my GTS in 2003 with 100 kmls, needed nothing and was given to me for € 14k. Now 14 years later and at 155 kmls it is still as enjoyable and solid. I drive it whenever possible and it is a true daily driver even after 25 years (MY 1992). With correct maintenance and preventive maintenance this car is just great. But you either work on them on your own and you know what you are doing, or you will encounter two problems: finding a shop that has a clue about this car and sufficient funds to keep it in good shape. If you think about buying one, go to the Rennlist 928 forum. Great people and experts that know this car inside and out (before you make a decision on buying one IMHO).
awesome video. I'd love to see a 944 video.
Fantastic machine! Great Porsche for long rides!
yep always loved the typical porsche but when the 928s turned up! dont even car how they run... they are sizeable sleek and very fab pretty tall people can own one and annalog sweet.
Other than the gearbox, what makes a GT is the higher compression pistons and hotter cams. The GT came with hotter cams than the S4 or GTS, the profile resemble the cam profiles used on the 85-86 32 valve cars. Hence why people would buy 85-86 cams, have them modified to be installed in a S4 or GTS head. With the right tune and exhaust worth about 30 HP gain maybe more. The GT did suffer from using soft valve springs (I think they are the same ones used on the S4 and GTS) that would result in the lifters chewing up the nose of the more aggressive cam profile. The fix is to use 944 S2 stiffer valve springs. If you find a GT with a S4 motor its practically a manual S4 and would really hurt the value. The engine VIN used on the GT was different than the S4. Also the GT engines were supposedly more carefully assembled!
The problem with the 85-86 32 valve cars despite having hotter cams is the smaller diameter exhaust and intake valves, which you can not swap in S4/GT/GTS valves since the head design is different. The 87-95 valves are shorter if I remember correctly. Many 928 aficionados say that the 85-86 32 valve cars were test years for the 32 valve design, not many production street cars back then had a 4 valve head...
AS for THE GTS, in the 928 circles some believe that it was the reason why the 928 died. 928s always had problems with their oiling system design. It got worse when the cylinder bore size increased and when they went with twin cam design. The oil sump is too short for 8 quarts of oil (remember all 928s are wet sump design vs dry sump on the same era 911s). This design caused a lot of oil churning in the crankcase resulting in the oil not being able to drain back to the sump from the heads at high RPM, overfilling them all the way to the top of the cam cover, then that would result in the intake sucking some oil from the oil breather tubes coming from the cam covers reducing power output since now your fuel/air mixture is mixed with engine oil. There is always a puddle of oil in the bottom of the intake. This also results in the failure of #2 and #6 rod bearings during aggressive driving at high RPM, like on a track day due to reduced amount of remaining oil in the sump. If anything the reliability of the engine went down when they came out with 32 valve engines. More electric stuff like sensors to go wrong and more oil burning issues due to increased engine displacement and volume in the wider heads. There is actually a kit out there called the oil pan spacer to help in moving the oil in the sump away from the crankshaft to reduce this oil churning. Obviously this will get the already low oil pan closer to the ground.
When the GTS first came out in 92, they tried to fix the problem (now the 5.4 liter has a bigger stroke crankshaft getting closer to the oil in the short sump) by changing the crankcase breather design, but it failed. It made everything worse, there is detail discussion about this on 928 Rennlist forum. The GTS model is well known to consume 1 quart of oil every 500-800 miles, many discussions out there on how to "patch" this problem. For comparison a GT or S4 may consume 1 quart of oil in 2,500-3000 miles...What Porsche did that is the main cause for this high oil consumption on the GTS is they did NOT drill the oil drain back holes behind the oiling ring in the piston ring groove (all 8 of them). This resulted in the oil not being able to drain back and end up in it burning on top of the piston, building up carbon deposit to the point that it would increase compression significantly. This caused pinging making a $100,000 car un-driveable. Its been said that back in the day on the autobahn at high speeds/RPMs a GTS with a full tank of gas would run out of oil before using all the fuel in the tank! To fix this problem properly (getting to the pistons to drill the 8 missing oil drain back holes on each piston) a full tear down of the engine is required. As a result a lot of engines were replaced for the GTS models under warranty, either for sever pinging or detonation making the car un-driveable or failed connecting rod due to running out of oil or added stress from pinging and detonation. The replacement engines had the same problem because Porsche never added the missing oil drain back holes on the piston, so it was never fixed. Most GTS owners hate talking about this subject out of fear of bringing the value of their car down. Almost all got into a GTS without knowing these problems before hand. I suspect that there are a few 928 GTS out there that do not have the original matching numbers engine. The other models before the GTS still have the same short sump problem but they have the shorter stroke crankshaft and they DO have all the oil drain back holes behind the oil ring on the pistons drilled like it should be on any piston with an oiling ring.
Also if you look up Porsche Technical bulletin 9401 it talks about changing spaghetti thin connecting rods used on the 92-93 and some of the 94 928 GTS models. These R1 rods are known to bend into an S shape for being weak to handle stock power and torque, more of a problem on the manual GTS since they can reach higher RPMs more often due to nature of the way some like to drive a manual. The cheap fix for Porsche was to slightly reinforce the bottom of the rod neck, designated as R2 rods. Still a weak design but it can handle the engine power fine. You just can't add a turbo kit or supercharger like people do with the S4 or GT models. I'm sure Porsche had to change some engines due to the R1 rods failing, hence coming up with R2 rods close to end of production. They never did make this a recall. But its due to these short comings of the GTS engine that people think it contributed to bad sales. Most new owners buying these are not aware of these problems. In 928 circles a 93 or early 94 is less desirable than a late 94 or 95 due to this connecting rod issue. Few years ago the price difference was about $10,000 between a late 94 and a 93. As a quick visual check on a 94 GTS for sale add, if it originally came with cup I wheels like the 92-93 models, it will have the R1 connecting rods. If it originally came with cup II wheels its more than likely to have the reinforced R2 connecting rods like all the 95 models short of checking the engine VIN. In either case all 928 GTS engines need a full tear down/rebuild regardless of miles to drill the missing oil drain back holes on each piston (and to change the R1 rods to R2 rods per the Technical Bulletin if a 92-94 car). Also the oil breather setup should be changed back to a S4/GT setup to maintain stock look and better crankcase breathing. There are aftermarket oil/air separator and crankcase vacuum pumps to help with crank case pressure if decided to go with a better than stock solution. The problem with this GTS piston problem is many things can go wrong during an engine rebuild and there are not many 928 mechanics that qualify to do a careful disassembly and rebuild of a 928 engine.
The only thing that made a GTS better than the S4 or GT IMO was the rear bulged out quarter panels, it completes the 928 wide stance and matches perfectly to the already wide looking front fenders. The aero mirrors are a nice touch as well to the updated look, read somewhere on rennlist that they supposedly add 3 mph to the top speed.
I do agree with you that the best buy for the 32 valve cars is the S4 model, they are robust, have non of the weak engine problems of the GTS and you can install supercharger or turbo kits without worrying about the engine failing mechanically. The earlier 87-88 928 S4s are more raw than the 89-91 models. Less electronics, no airbags (90-91 had airbags), less sound deadening, more likely to find one with rear AC delete (slightly lighter due to these).
Also as a last note the automatic transmissions are more robust than the manual transmission cars as long as all the oil doesn't leak out from aging seals. The manual transmissions are known to lose their gear teeth when you start adding power and beating on it. Not a problem for the Mercedes sourced automatic transmission, you just have to keep up with 25,000-50,000 mile oil changes. The manuals do not shift very well and the feel is very mushy, an old Honda civic shifts much better, which is reason why I think most people just ordered an automatic. The shifting is just not crisp and smooth like it should be. I'm sure if it shifted like a 944 or 911 they would have sold more manuals...
At 9:42 "much more integrated...graceful,...".....Uh, no.....One individuals vision of the 928, ruined by another guys idea to "improve" the looks......Lets all see how much better it can look...NO, those beautiful taillights absolutely fucked up, "improved", with the "newness"......when will the design houses learn?.....The first versions,..without the bean-counters interference, or regulatory meddling.....will be the best style.....not the later tweakers who seem bent on "improving" someone elses vision...
Woohooo......I have an '89 928S4 clean White with tan interior. 99K miles.😄
I invested in an early 84 s model last year. Manual trans with 65k miles. Great car with great value appreciation potential. Great video Chris!
996TT (911 Turbo) prices are still absurdly low, less than 1/2 of new MRSP price, for no good reason, since the 996 Turbo model does not have the IMS bearing issue existing on all 996 models. I do agree the 928's have potential to increase in value significantly .. into 6 figures within next 15-20 years.
Have my eye on a 86 928S right now. Black on black with a 5speed. Guy wants $12,500 for it....
If it passes the smell test is in good shape and hasnt been roached out, go for it. Service records would help.
ChrisWorldTV
Agreed... thanks for the input!
Actually the 78-82 cars were slugguish dogs, unlike the movie indicated. You want a fast 928 you need an S4, GT, GTS. Even my 1986 928S got blown away by a Honda Civic Si or Elantra Turbo. Sad.
S4 prices in 2024 havent really budged in 7 years. Still can get a good S4 under 20K
Chris,
GREAT in-depth video! I am seriously considering swapping my pristine '87 944 for a 928. I'm looking for either an early manual example or a late '80's auto. The later manuals are as rare as hen's teeth. Thank you for your info and thoughts. It's really helping to inform me of my decision!
Good luck in your search.
What do you think of the 86.5? old body style with S4 running gear and brakes.
It's the GTS of the old-style body. Then again I might be biased :-)
I totally agree with your point of view, I bought my 1988 928 S4 in 2014, I drove it for about 10.000 km since and it is such an incredible car even compared to many of the sports car that are sell nowadays.
Apart from that, it is indeed a bargain and an incredible value for money.
Bought a 87 S4 in 1993, still have it in 2021: rock solid, fast, smooth, stunningly beautiful, a head-turner: so glad not to have a 911, too many of them everywhere. Great family car too, when the kidd were young. Puts a smile and a grin on my face each time I take it for a spin.
You should've adjusted the MSRP for inflation. Great video otherwise
I'm too late now, it's 2021. I can't find one for less than $20K.
I can buy an 87 46k miles clean all records current owner has only put 2000 miles in 5yr comes with new dash and pod front seats were redone 15k l know it's a exellent deal working to come up with funds one of my favorite cars 87 especially
47k and had a new dash and seats naa not good deal at all that is not a good sample.. if it was good it should not been in that condition.
This car is going around pretty cheap here in Poland.
just checked what 928s are going in the UK and a really clean one is going for up to 60000 sterling, and higher mileage examples as low as 10000. does this work out similar to the US market?
84 Euro, 4.7 320hp (ZZZ ROW cars) , the 16v motors sound better! and there more reliable because the belts dont destroy the motor like a 32v when they fail, The 84 came with the 4sp Auto, the 84 also has the original body and personally I prefer that older body over the newer ones as its in the movies like Scarface,Weird.. Science,Risky Business..
So basicly the S2 has the best Gearbox, Best sounding motor and similar power (320hp from the 4.7 16v) and that pure original Body without the soft Aero look of s4.
You also must note..besides the S1,S2,S3 original body being the one shown in all the movies, its also is a MUCH older car, and therefore now harder to find a good one! So IMO that makes all the OB ( original body) cars the pick, I just feel the reliable 4.7 16v with 320hp ,and its engine note is better than the 32v 5.0litre, Plus the S2 had 4sp Auto is the pick of the litter overall
These days very few cars are labelled as pure GT cars. They're usually just called "sports cars" or "luxury sports cars", with the only real brands making grand tourers being Aston Martin and Bentley. Everyone else is making sports cars that can work as GTs. The 928, though, it a grand tourer in the purest sense. It wasn't meant to lap the Nürbugring as fast as possible, or be as light and flashy as possible. It was meant to go on very long road trips at very high speeds in comfort. That's it. The 911 Turbo was a more exciting car, but the 928 offered the same performance just in a different package. No pendulum oversteer, no flat-six howl, no turbo lag. It was just a calm, sonorous V8 roar and neutral handling with no surprises. I love the 928s, and I think most people don't because they don't look as exciting, and don't offer the hair-on-fire thrills that a 911 would. They're missing out on a fantastic automobile. Not to mention these things will last forever if maintained. (I once met an owner who had to get rid of his 928 track car after 400,000 miles) If you can handle the running costs and follow the maintenance schedule religiously, they're pretty much bulletproof.
I have a clean 1980 928 with around 50,000 miles that lives in my garage. I'm hoping that as the "S4" models go up, maybe the 80 will go up a little too. At least people are talking about 928's now. When I bought mine 15 years ago I parked it in my driveway the UPS guy told me he once saw one at a junk yard and always wondered what kind of car it was . I bought it because I love the car and never really thought it would be worth too much in my lifetime. Maybe that's changing.
My grandpa has a manual '85 928 s with less than 100k miles in perfect shape, bought new in Germany with full leather interior and lots of extras like A/C and stuff and he wants to sell it for 12000€, is it a fair price? Im telling him just to wait a bit more.
Sad thing is that he had a 930 turbo before that, but ended up selling it because he got scared of it, if he had kept it...I would be the happiest man on earth, the 928 is just too big
928 s4 prices are keep going up and i wonder in 5 years where will be at?
Thats my question! I debating between a 928 S4 and a 944 Turbo, 2 very different cars but I can't decide!
@@billystutz55 i have them both . great cars.
@@billystutz55 if you buy make sure get the best sample or dont even get it. only the nice samples are good ones if you see fix up etc crappy ones do not buy it . they will coast you more than the car and yet still will be crap and not original.
There's a few in my town in Long Island. This guy has a mint guards red 928 S4 in stick. Most of them are auto though. A local dealer not far away has a red S4 but in auto. Another guy here has a black 928 GTS O_o
My father favorite car and i think ferrari heh but Porsche must do sport cars not like family cars the name is so big my father knows all about this cars he is 70year old knows everythink about this cars ..i,m sad that Porsche do like family cars not like sportcars anymore ...why......i think this very bad for Porsche why they dont wanna do good cars because name is so big and Porsche could be like Ferrari...but not now ...and i think that nazi think hits to Porsche but it.s only car and very good one and Mercedes is now the one but it never beat the name Porsche ;) i think Judish agree me cars dont do nothing and i think most of all were judish who make those cars ;) i think so
ah Chris, how the world has changed.
According to the 928 Registry, there were 406 GTS's sold in North America between the 1993-'95 model years. 77 were sold in '95.
Interesting video, I agree with most of your views. Picked up and S4 last year and it is an amazing car.
Rarity also effects supply and demand for replacement parts and finding a mechanic familiar with the cars. Personally I would rather buy something new and more common like an M2 or something.
I don't know people don't think of 928's when they think porsche. Not sure these will every go up in value like the old 911's.
Chris, listening to the production right now. I have owned 12 really nice 928's at once and I'm down to 8 right now. Great job on the facts. Actual US sales just over 26,000, GTS production for the US was ONLY 406 from 93-95. No 1992 GTS were imported to the US. I have the only one currently registered in the US! The very last US GTS (#77) had a window sticker of $183,xxx! It had every thing custom you could imagine.
Ive seen the window sticker on that GTS you are referring to.
Most reviews bore me. I buy the sound, the drive, not the waffle! Drive the f car for the whole review, talk little!
911 Turbo has come down and the other 2 have gone up
yup now these goes up
This car is going around pretty cheap here in Poland.
I have a 89 S4 and a 07 FJ. Im heading over to watch that video now.
I have an '88 S4 5-speed track car, a '91 GT garage queen and an '07 FJ. Do I win? ;)
Aside from appreciating values, what the 928 and FJ also share is build quality. Build quality is legendary for both vehicles, IMO.
Chris, well researched videos! I'm going to take a look at some of your other automotive picks...
91928gt You only win if you have a Quigley too. 😜😊🤙
Great presentation, I completely agree with your analysis. I will however make a couple of side points, I'm not arguing mind you, lol. I feel that the market for the 944 Turbo (951) Is set to take off quicker than the 928 in general ( I am speaking to a specific model like the S4) The production numbers on the 951 are relativity low and they for the most part are 5 speed cars,. I feel the manual transmission coupled with the really pretty good performance numbers of the 951 will cause it to climb in price before the 928. Of course this is pure speculation as you stated and of course I may be a bit biased as I own a 951, lol. Part of the reason I say this is also that the starting point is lower therefore I think (speculation again) it may have more room to grow. Just subbed by the way.
Sorry I should proof read more closely, that should have read I am NOT speaking to a specific model like the S4. My mistake.
Do you think it's too late to buy an NSX? 90s model
Would be interesting to know what my 928 is worth. My insurance company cannot seem to tell me. I have a '85 928 S2 Euro spec 310+ hp right hand drive 4 speed auto. Full books and 134 000 km's on the clock ( 83000 miles )
$25-27K?
Hi (and thanks for the vid) I bought my mint 2 owner -89 S4 (170t kms) in 2015. Paid 18 k€ (in Finland) and now have a deal with my insurance company about the worth of 25k€
I own an 87 S4. Top speed at the salt flats was 171-172
Wld you consider also 944 S2 or still opt for the 944 Turbo, knowing Turbos will drive appreciation in the future??
S2 is underrated. Didnt build many either. You do get the Turbo body. I still prefer the Turbos for long-term asset retention just because of their performance and provenance -- real or perceived.
my dad has a gt and it is such a nice motorway cruiser
Listening to your market evaluation... $30k would get you a decent driver (high miles) GTS or THE NICEST S4 on the market. You can get really decent driver (or local show) S4's for just under $20k! That said, desireabilty is not there for the 928 and I don't see it coming back any time soon. It's been undervalued for 20 years! That's why I started collecting them! The ones to buy are the '78 and GTS! After that those the S4! Up till last year I had all four model years of GTS! Sold my GTS in January of 2016.
No way in my area will $30K buy the nicest S4 on the market. Perhaps 2-3yrs ago. Maybe not even $35K depending on the listings. In fact I gave up looking, having passed on dozens if not hundreds. Im talking cars in the 50-70K mile range, cosmetically nearly perfect, interior nearly perfect, local concours or show winner with documentation and receipts back to the original owner. A car that needs next to nothing and has been a second or third car for every previous owner. If you have one of these for $30K in your fleet, Im sure one of the channel followers will offer you cash for it. Heck I even might! As for GTSs, the only ones Im seeing for less than $50-60K are either roached out or almost 100K miles (or more). You are smart to have a bunch of them. They are undervalued but rising. The chance to get in while the getting is good will come to and end. Probably sooner than folks realize too.
ChrisWorldTV...you are not looking in the right places then! You give me $30k or even $70k and I'll find you a super sweet automatic S4 and GTS and pocket the leftovers. I could barely sell my near perfect 58k mile '94 GTS for $40k a year ago... six months ago it made two flips and got up to $50k and I can assure you neither the dealer who bought it nor the flipper made even close to 10%... last sale took it to $50k. About market correct.
@@pcar928fan i agree w Chris on this.
The 78, (85-86 5.0 32v), and 95 GTS with manual transmissions are collectibles Please do your research before uploading to RUclips.
Nobody said they weren't. I merely provided my favorites based on price/availability. Its no longer an investment collectible however if the market has already accounted for it. You don't buy after the run-up (GTS manuals).
ChrisWorldTV A major engine boost came in 1985 with the 5.0 32 valve not 1987 with 288hp up from 240hp not as powerful as the 1987 316hp engine but was lighter and still had the desirable old body style vs the 1987 lexus 300SC rear end. Don't get me wrong, all 928s are great cars but collectors go with the first and last year's and the rare ones. I should've included the 1987 and 91GT. Nice video ☺
Had a 87 and. 83. Miss them both
Love the videos keep them coming, love your opinions about all things. I would be quite keen to hear your take on the Trump victory.
Your wish is my command.
metafora 3.5 years later no question complete depreciation bottom out. #winning?
Killer car I love the 928
3 years too late!!!
928 not 9 20 8
Love my dogleg GTS.. Best GT EVER
Rare shark. You got in when the getting in was good.
I heard there going up in price right now
lol yup up up and up
I've been looking into these cars on and off. Many people consider them the poor mans Porsche to the 911. I'm seriously thinking of buying into one I've seen an auto 1988 for less than $13,000 with high mileage but good condition local to me on the market. I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking these cars were awesome in their day.
lovem3 the 928 was more expensive than the 911 so how poor man's 911?
The 944 was the "poor" or affordable entry Porsche. The performance of the 928 even matched the 911
the only Porsche is a 911, its the only porsche
paul hunter lol you obviously don't own Porsche's.
lol bugs mehhhh . 1st own few porches and come back talk.
356: sad car noises
@@Gorilla_Jones no one does unless its a 911
@@SAMMYJR00777 actually i had a 924 it was crap