Pastor READS Helaman from the Book of Mormon
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Pastor Jeff is reading the Book of Mormon for the first time! In this video, he reacts to the book of Helaman.
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Hello Saints! My name is Jeff McCullough and I'm a Christian Pastor.
This channel is devoted to fighting criticism with curiosity as I invite dialogue between Christians and Latter-day Saints. Are Mormons christians? What do christians and Latter-day Saints agree and disagree about? Join me as I compare and contrast the lifestyle, culture and beliefs of Mormonism and the rest of the Christian community.
If you enjoyed this video, you might enjoy a video he made exploring Latter-day Saint sites in Salt Lake City, Utah: • Pastor's REACTION to L...
#LatterDaySaints #bookofmormon #mormonism
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No that I finished Helaman, is there anything I should keep in mind as I prepare to read 3 Nephi?
3 Nephi is a continuation of the Easter story
It is my favorite book in the Book of Mormon. So much hope and joy and being able to see how much our Savior Jesus Christ loves us!
I think you know the answer to this. 😉
Mostly that this is the seminal book in the book of Mormon where Jesus visits the nephites and lamanites. I know you're not reading the book of Mormon for conversion but I would invite you to read this with prayer as it is a very sacred experience.
I’m Mexican In Mexico Spaniards try to erased our culture and traditions from the past , here in North America most native Americans knew about the white beard God that came and healed, teach , the people of this continent , in other cultures they call him or named differently but is same person because the teachings and heritage is the same, in Mexico we name him Quetzalcoatl, and the Book of Mormon is the only one that talks about this encounter, some tribes , some cultures and we Mexicans when they talk or read about the Book of Mormon are very familiar. Jesus Christ actually after his resurrection visit the American continent and is found in 3 nephi ….. also the ancient people in America built temples , pyramids, and knew very well the stellar system and knew about stars and heavens not only until 1400 , I would I invite you to study our culture, ancient people were very smart
While I appreciate Pastor Jeff's reading of the Book of Mormon, I felt he missed the mark with only a cursory reading of the Book of Helaman. From a doctrinal perspective there are many important gems and prophesies about the role of Jesus Christ as Son of God, Redeemer, Creator, just to name a few. Anybody seeking to build a relationship with Jesus Christ and know more about his mission would do well to study these scriptures carefully.
Here are just a few:
Reference --> Chapter & Verse --> Text
1-Centrality of Scripture, Helaman 3:29: "Yea, we see that whosoever will may lay hold upon the word of God, which is quick and powerful, which shall divide asunder all the cunning and the snares and the wiles of the devil, and lead the man of Christ in a strait and narrow course across that everlasting gulf of misery which is prepared to engulf the wicked."
2-Christ, Atonement, Helaman 5:9 "O remember, remember, my sons, the words which king Benjamin spake unto his people; yea, remember that there is no other way nor means whereby man can be saved, only through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ, who shall come; yea, remember that he cometh to redeem the world."
3-Christ, Son of God, Helaman 5:12 "And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation..."
4-Christ, Coming of, Helaman 14:12 "And also that ye might know of the coming of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and of earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and that ye might know of the signs of his coming..."
5-Christ, Resurrection of, Helaman 14:15-17 "For behold, he surely must die that salvation may come; yea, it behooveth him and becometh expedient that he dieth, to bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, that thereby men may be brought into the presence of the Lord."
Seriously, these are the key points
I totally agree that while he covered the skeleton, he left out the heart and substance of the book of Helaman. Why doesn’t that catch his attention? It seems intentional to skip over the meat and nit pick more trivial issues. Overall, I was disappointed. I guess he told us that he is not looking for truth, but is showing us what an Evangelical sees using an extremely narrow lens.
He’s fighting it so hard.
Thank you for sharing this! My thoughts exactly
@@shireecox122he sure is. 😅 The sad part about it is the truth is right in front of him. Hopefully he finds the truth before it’s too late.
I love and admire Jeff, but in all honesty this series is super hard for me to watch. It is like watching him giving us tour of the Louvre museum and he only talks about the architecture of the building and how its different from The Metropolitan Museum of Art and ignores the Mona Lisa, Venus de Milo, and The Raft of the Medusa.
I appreciate his efforts, and I get that he is not going to have the same insight and love for it that I do, so I get it. But its a little hard to watch.
My thoughts exactly
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
As an ex member of recent it’s very helpful for me.
I can't believe there are so many critical comments of what Jeff is doing on this channel. He has visited your temples, visited your ward buildings, appeared on multiple LDS RUclips channels, and is studying your Scriptures. IMO he is being fair and his purpose is very honorable. I don't see very many of the hosts from the LDS channels studying other faiths and visiting their houses of worship. Just because he's not interested in converting doesn't mean he isn't being fair.
Agreed! Mormons won’t study any other doctrine other than their own cause they are conditioned from birth to believe their church is true lol which is totally false! I learned that the hard way! The Bible is all you need!
LDS believe they are the only true restored church, of course they're going to find it offensive he doesn't have the "burning in his bosom", and is just pointing out the differences.
@@1820Vision _(sigh)_ Chalk it up to the nature of the internet. Don’t get so distracted by the negative comments that you lose sight of the many who are appreciative. Hearing the different POV is honestly fascinating. And anyone seeking to follow Christ has my support, no matter what sect of christianity they belong to.
The problem is our LDS friends are very sensitive.
They love it when we agree with them but hate it when we disagree with their beliefs and will say stuff like " I don't feel the spirit"
They base their beliefs on feelings and when it doesn't align with theirs , that's where they draw the line.
If someone doesn't see it from their perspective, they get confused and wanna criticize for not "having an open heart and asking God to reveal if it's true" etc etc
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I've been a subscriber since near the inception of your channel. What seemingly began as genuine curiosity about LDS beliefs has transformed over time to be subtle attacks. Your review of the Book of Mormon seems to only point out things that appear to contridict mainstream Christianity beliefs. I enjoyed your channel more when you pointed out similarities as well as differences. Back then it didn't seem you had a secret agenda to discredit the beliefs of Latter-day Saints. There is SO much amazing doctrine and scripture in Helaman that was completely ignored. I often questioned what your motive was for reading the Book of Mormon if you weren't going read it with an open heart and willingness to ask God of it's authenticity. It saddens me to think you might be doing this to make LDS people question their beliefs, rather than as an opportunity to bring people closer to Christ by sharing some of the most profound doctrines discussed in the Book of Mormon.
He is a pastor secure in his faith. He is not trying to convert. I as a Protestant have learned a lot from watching him, he points out things that most Protestants/evangelicals WOULD point out and then proceeds to ask so he can try to understand the lds stance.
Respectfully, LDS and Protestants really are different, so of course he will at times seem skeptic to you, when reading completely different doctrine. Just as passionate and secure you feel about your faith, so does Pastor Jeff about his.
LDS leadership, roughly since Gordon Hinkley became president, has tried to present itself as mainstream and more palatable to both Protestants/Evangelicals and Catholics. This is even more true today with Russell Nelson now presiding. He went to Rome when the new LDS Temple was opened there and really kissed up to Pope Francis while he was there. Even going so far as to refer to Francis as "His Holiness". This was very odd because that's a religious title and it's basically an acknowledgement Francis' ecclesiastical authority. I'm pretty sure Francis never referred to Nelson as "The Prophet."
It would seem that your disappointment is based on the fact that Pastor Jeff is not converting to your cult. Just because certain LDS doctrines are amazing to you, does not make them true. And if they blatantly go against the revealed word of God ( John 1:1-5) there is not a chance that Pastor Jeff or myself will embrace those false doctrines.
@@markwellsfry9843 False doctrines HAVE to sound amazing, or they don't scratch those itching ears.
@@BrendonKing
What? True doctrine doesn't sound amazing?
Greetings Pastor Jeff. I am a Latter-day Saint. I have been following your Series intently since its inception. As you have said before and you say here, " I'm not reading the Book of Mormon to determine if it is true nor am I reading the Book of Mormon to nitpick and find all of its problems..." I must say I find this rather disingenuous. I infer from the first part of that statement that you have already made up your mind that the Book of Mormon is a work of fiction and therefore there is no reason to explore whether it is or is not. Then you very politely and very subtly proceed to do exactly what you said you weren't doing in the second part of that statement, which is to point out how it differs from the Bible stating as you do "I have a problem" with this part or that, making it clear to all why you reject the authenticity of the Book of Mormon. If you don't believe it is at least possible that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God and that the Book of Mormon is exactly what it posits itself to be, and you are not trying to find out, please correct me if I am wrong, that makes this series at best clickbait, vitue signaling or at worse a seemingly ionncuos way for you to dicourage others from sincerely investigating for themselves what you believe to be a false religion. As for myself, I was blessed to have been raised by two athiest that did not incumber me with the traditions of creedal Christianty leaving me free to investigate Joseph Smith and The Book of Mormon without having to unlearn any untruths or dissapoint my family who would have been equally disapointed with any religion I chose. Remember, the Lord warned us to beware of false Prophets not that there will be no more Prophets. May God bless you Pastor Jeff.
My take is that Pastor Jeff is courting Latter-day Saints in order to help us see “the error of our ways” so that we might be converted to the “true gospel” aka mainstream Christianity, and he does so by kindly and respectfully (mostly - his Melissa Dougherty video was a bridge too far - way too far) exploring our doctrine. He does this with the purpose of comparing and contrasting. He hopes that the compare and contrast method will help us to see the “truth “.
Your sentence about the Lord warning us against false prophets, not that there will be no more prophets, is profound.
My favorite doctrine is how non believers are cursed with becoming ... Africans. Genius. Seriously though, don't you know Smith was a freemason?
He does seem to be leaving out most references to Jesus and most of the doctrine instead focusing on the historical parts.
@@ryanorionwotanson4568
He was made one for a day I wouldn't say he was a full freemason
@@MRRANDOMZ11 he used freemason rites in the priesthood stuff... At the same time... If he was low level, that just shows he was taking orders and had no idea what the end goal was
You know, it would be cool if you and a LDS scholar read the Bible together and discussed it! It was cool to see your perspective on the book of Helaman. Thank you for being so respectful towards my religion, I really admire that about your videos.
So, you want two people that have zero Biblical understanding to read the Bible together? What do you think is going to come from that?
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Pastor Jeff, have you noticed your Book of Mormon reading videos have changed? The curiosity seems to have faded. This video barely felt different from those where people just try to point out what's wrong with our church. Others have commented that you completely skipped over the doctrinal content in the book - especially all that talks about Christ.
You said you were reading as a mainstream Christian would, but I highly doubt that none of the verses about building on the rock of Christ would stand out at all.
It's frustrating that your tagline is fighting criticism with curiosity, when all you did in this video was criticize. If you're going to do that, it's only fair that you make these videos alongside someone who can respond to your criticisms. Otherwise it just feels like you're trying to destroy our faith instead of understand it.
@@mewannabethe thing that seems most suspicious to be is that Jeff mentions for the first time (that I've noticed) that if you pay enough money you can have a Zoom call with him. Part of me thinks he knew he was ruffling feathers with this video and that people would be more likely to want to discuss it with him over Zoom.
That might be overthinking it, but it just seems like his recent videos have a different agenda than before.
@@andevious4743Alma 1: 4-5.
@@andevious4743 Why in the world would this video ruffle any feathers?? Why are LDS so very sensitive to having their beliefs challenged? If you truly BELIEVE in your church, this video shouldn't even be a blip on your radar. Maybe it's making you face some doubts?
@@peaceful525I'm sorry you misunderstood my comment. I have no problem with people challenging my beliefs. That doesn't ruffle feathers in the least. I also don't think LDS are always sensitive to having our beliefs challenged, simply because it happens quite frequently. To generalize everyone of our faith with that hyperbole seems unfair, by the way.
My comment was geared towards feeling that Jeff's approach in his videos has changed, and is now somehwat misleading from his original mantra. If you watch the first two Book of Mormon videos he did, he takes extra time to point out things that align with his faith and adheres to "fighting criticism with curiosity." I don't feel it's been like that the last few videos. Especially when, from my biased viewpoint, the Book of Helaman has much more Christian doctrine that was skipped. Jeff focuses much more on the points he feels "proves" our religion wrong. He doesn't have anyone to respond to his points, so it is basically a critical video of our church disguised as a video about curiosity.
If he wants to attack our beliefs, go right ahead. But to do a bunch of videos where he gains out trust and then shift suddenly felt a little like a wolf in sheep's clothing to me. It felt especially frustrating in this video where it seemed he knew he was saying things that people would want to talk to him and clarify, and then at the end of the video he says if you pay him enough money you can Zoom call with him. That rubbed me the wrong way, not that he had a critique of my religion.
In LDS doctrine, "Hell" is often symbolically depicted as a place of suffering,. Hell can refer to Spirit Prison from the Plan of Salvation. Hell is also more loosely used in Mormon culture to refer of a terrible state of being. In this sense, Hell is not being cast into a physical place, but it is rather a seemingly inescapable state of crippling pride, regret, resentment, squandered opportunity, an unwillingness to change, cowardice, jealousy, etc. This is a state experienced by those who do not repent and engage with the atonement of Jesus Christ. It is not a place, but a natural consequence of being.
It doesn't matter what hell means to a mormon. Mormons know absolute zero about the truth of the Bible.
I love this. Something to use on my mission in a month. It's not necessarily a place, but a description of being separated from our Heavenly Father.
Hell has also two different definitions. There is the hell of being cut off from God’s presence eternally which only the Sons of Perdition experience, and the hell of the soul in sin (which is everyone who is not yet in exalted state).
Well actually, we do believe in outer darkness.
Im just wondering as a recent follower of christianity part of the LDS church, is it possible Satan or Lucifer could repent for his sins and be accepted again by God or is he eternally damned, or does he just choose he will never accept God for all of eternity?
Some commentary from an LDS perspective on your commentary:
1) The experience of Nephi and Lehi in the prison: We don’t see the day of Pentecost as the moment where the Holy Ghost first came into play, we see that as when the GIFT of the Holy Ghost was first given, which is the blessing to have the constant companionship of the Spirit of the Lord. The Holy Ghost was clearly active among mankind before then though, for example when it was revealed to Peter that Jesus was the Christ, or in this case where a large group of people had a spiritual experience but did not receive the Holy Ghost’s constant companionship after the fact. So Evangelicals and LDS people may not differ on this account as much as you think.
2) Dark oaths and covenants from Satan: You are correct, nothing to do with Temple covenants. You’ll get a lot more info on this in 3rd Nephi and Ether, but essentially it’s secret conspiracies to harm others for personal gain, where each member of the conspiracy will lie to protect the others on pain of death if they do betray the other members of the conspiracy.
3) Women: yes there are fewer women mentioned, but this is a consequence of how the Book of Mormon was written. Most of the book is an abridgment by Mormon of hundreds of years of records rather than a translation of original documents and traditions (as in most of the Bible), and so for the most part we only get a 10,000 ft view of things except when Mormon “zooms in” as it were on some sermon or event, which unfortunately means we don’t see as much of the women. Note that we DO see a lot of one woman in particular, Sariah, in the portion of the BofM that is a raw document/record.
4) Heliocentrism: Mormon is writing around 400 AD, so the knowledge of Heliocentrism is not quite so early, but science in the new world was totally divorced from the old world at this point so it’s not incredibly surprising that aspects of technology might have improved faster in one place than the other. In addition, 4th Nephi covers a roughly 300 year Nephite golden age of peace before Mormon’s time, and it would be only natural for science to advance a fair bit during that golden age.
5) Damnation: We typically understand damnation in a more technical sense than the fire and brimstone common to mainstream Christianity. In our view, one who is “damned” is one who is stuck. They cannot grow or progress. In this sense, all who do not reach the celestial kingdom are “damned” because they are stuck where they are and cannot continue their growth to become more like our Heavenly Father. So even if the Telestial and Terrestial kingdoms are actually good places, there’s still going to be some serious regret or even misery within them.
Just to show a difference in thought within LDS circles. I disagree with your assertions around damnation particularly. I think it's common assumptions and interpretations by us saints, currently. But one that doesn't necessarily match up with what we know about the telestial and terrestial kingdoms in D+C. There's no mention of regret and misery within them in the scriptures that mention them. The only place/state that is mentioned in negative horrible terms is outer darkness and the intermediate hell between mortality and the final placement into a kingdom for those who've done evil and can still be redeemed to some degree of glory in the telestial kingdom.
@@bluedreams517 I agree with both you and @nathanielblanchard7975. I think the Hell that is talked about in the Book of Mormon is the Hell or Spirit Prison in the Spirit World. That is where those who have not relied on the Lord's Atonement and repented of their sins in this lifetime will go to pay for those sins themselves. And it will be horrible but it won't last forever. Eternal punishment is God's punishment but eternal does not mean endless. I don't think I'll share here what I think damnation means. And besides - we know so very little about the afterlife. I guess really we know quite a bit but there are gaps and questions. I earnestly look forward to further knowledge when I reach the other side.
“I converted to Mormonism when I was 22, and was a strong believer. After about 25 years as an LDS member, I began to study the New Testament. I came across the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles that I couldn't reconcile with LDS beliefs. The first thing that rocked my Mormonism was reading in Mathew about the man that died and his brother married his wife then they died and was married to 7 brothers, who was she married to in Heaven? Then the highest authority of all, Jesus Christ says she was married to none of them, because there is no marriage in Heaven. A core belief of the LDS is "marriage for time and all eternity" when you are married and "sealed" in an LDS temple, which I had been. If you aren't married in heaven then the temple is a lie. Then I learned the similarities between LDS temple rituals and the freemasons, and Joseph Smith was a mason. I kept reading and there was more, but that is where the beginning of the end of Mormonism was for me. Now, I am a bible believing Christian and so much happier than I ever was as a Mormon.”
Correct me where I'm wrong here but where do you get that the gift of the Holy Ghost is only after the day of Pentecost. In Deuteronomy 34:9 it says, "Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom; for Moses had laid his hands upon him". That sounds like conferring the gift of the Holy Ghost to me. Additionally, in Isaiah 44:3 the Lord promises Jacob (Israel) that He will "pour my spirit upon *thy seed*." Compare that with Acts 2:17 where God says, "I will pour out of my Spirit upon *all flesh*" It seems to me that the day of Pentecost was the point of out of the spirit to the world at large, not the pouring out of the spirit/giving the gift of the Holy Ghost for the first time to anyone. Any insight into this?
@@loudogg73 I mean fair enough, it probably wasn’t the first time it was given to ANYONE, just the first time it was available to everyone. Similar to (and possibly an alternate interpretation of the scriptures you shared) the conferment and holding of the greater “Melchizedek” priesthood by the ancient prophets even when it was not available to the population at large back then as it is now.
The Book of Mormon is TRUE, and I will not deny that! While reading from it when I am depressed about the world, sad, scared, or need answers it has always been there for me! When I read its pages I feel so peaceful and loved! The Holy Ghost has born witness to me that it is true over and over again. Jesus Christ is at the very center of its pages, and I feel so blessed to have read it, and feel of the saviors love for me!!
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart
Abish is a woman who factors very prominently in the book of Alma. Alma probably has the most mention of women.
Abish and King Lamoni and the Queen is one of my favorite stories.
In the Old Testament there are people with the names "Abishai" and "Abishag."
Abish is a mix of two Maya words "ahua" and "bix" ahua means Lord and bix is a part of a standard greating "how are you?" Or "are you well? " Would both start "bix" x is sh sound
@@BrianTerrill Gus Portokalos: Of course! Kimono is come from the Greek word himona, is mean winter. So, what do you wear in the wintertime to stay warm? A robe. You see: robe, kimono. There you go!
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
We can all nitpick what this man is doing. But I have to say, for someone willing to explore for himself and get a first hand experience of things a lot of members have never experienced is absolutely astounding.
I came back to church after leaving at 16. 6 months before my Eagle Scout. And came back at 24. I had never read the Book of Mormon growing up. But my single mother made sure we where at church every Sunday and scouts on Wednesday. We rarely missed church and it’s hard to even remember ever not going. I served a mission in Gilbert Arizona at 26. Got my mission call 3 days before my 26th birthday. I read the Book of Mormon one time or so before I left. Gaining a fairly good understanding of it. I did as instructed at the end, expecting for the heavens to open and receive my testimony before I left so I could be prepared. And lo and behold, I didn’t lol
I felt like I was missing a huge part of my testimony. And I would pray often to gain my testimony, not for myself, but so I could use to strongly testify that this was the word of God, “ANOTHER” testament of Jesus Christ. I read the Book of Mormon serval more times. Challenging my self to read through it, then pray and ask God, as instructed. I believe it was on the 4th time. Because I thought 3rd was the charm lol.
We went to the Gilbert temple every transfer as a mission. I got into the mission a couple transfers before it opened. On my 4th time reading I said I would prepare this transfer to take my honest question to the temple.
We went to the temple as usual and I finished the Book of Mormon before the temple and saved the last chapter until we finished the endowment session, and where in the celestial room.
That day, in my own way, the Lord answered my prayers, in his own way, with a testimony of the Book of Mormon that I could never deny. My mind was opened to a testimony that with the conviction I received, changed the lives off all that was meant to hear it, that I was sent their for.
Even though I fell away again. My testimony has never wavered of what I know to be true. And harder than ever, am making my way back into the fold again.
It wasn’t until after my mission that I received a testimony of the savior. As I became the one in need of him. When I was the one sent to them, I guess I was thier testimony of him. Idk lol. But I now also have a strong testimony that he lives.
Id like to leave who ever is reading, my testimony.
Id like to give you my testimony. Through fervent prayer and diligent efforts, I know this is the one true living church. I know Joseph was called to be a prophet of God and restored the lords church on the earth again, so his children would know of the love he has for them, in these trying times. I know the Book of Mormon is true, I’ve read it, studied and planted a seed in my heart to watch it grow. I experimented like unto a seed so I could know of it’s fruits. To know if it be a good seed. I prepared my heart ❤️ and soul to know of this great knowledge and the Lord showed unto me his great love and many great things because of it. It has taught me the plan he has for me. And the duty I have for others. I know that Jesus Christ is the son of God. I know that he suffered an incomprehensible amount of pain for me, and for you. That he has provided a way for us to live him again. And that way is through obedience, patience and long suffering. I’m truly grateful for my life and my family, friends and the wonderful experiences I’ve been given.
In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. 🙏
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss you’re negativity is not welcomed here. There is only one judge and you ant it 😂
@@MoonmanSpacejam
What is Gospel?
John 18:
37Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
God is truth which is Gospel.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
But.......
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
And the heart can deceive.
Jeremiah 17:
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
How can we test the truthfulness of Gospel?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
God makes the Gospel simple and testable for our protection. Things that are different are not the same. True Christianity bares all three witnesses of God (1Father, logos, logic, reasonable) (2Jesus, body, archaeology, tangible) (3Holy Ghost, soul, feeling, spiritual) The truth shall set you free but leaving the Pharaoh is hard since the first step is always the desert.
Mathew 22:
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
What is fiction and why? Joseph Smith's "translated"/defiled Bible along with other made up scripture is in opposition to the truth since the Bible was never lost. 1,000 manuscripts of the Old Testament oldest of which date to the Dead Sea Scrolls year 150 Before Christ. There are 5,800 manuscripts of the New Testament some of the oldest being found in the Bodmer Papyri year Anno Domini 150. Thats right, the oldest New Testament manuscript dates to just 50 years after the Apostles first gave the word and validates the mainline Bibles of today! Unless of course one believes Joseph Smith set those 6,800 manuscripts right with his vandalised text.
"King James Bible"
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
"Joseph Smith Translated Bible"
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.
Which one is correct the one that is backed up by the Dead Sea Scrolls and Bodmer Papyri? Or the one that strips our LORD and Saviour of deity reducing him to a demigod and the Trinity to a polytheistic orgy?
Revelation 1:
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
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Elder Holland admission the Book of Abraham doesn't match archaeology evidence.
ruclips.net/video/goRh2amv60A/видео.html
Test of a Prophet: The Bible vs. Joseph Smtih
ruclips.net/video/FrqkaKz_SSg/видео.html
The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon
ruclips.net/video/2AVksae-Frk/видео.html
LDS Mormon Prophet Russell Nelson Book of Mormon Seer Stones & Hat Translation Explained
ruclips.net/video/DG181zFA5YM/видео.html
@@Jozeemoss again. You’re being rude and you’re statements are not something I’d be interested in hearing. Honestly. I’ve met many people like you in my mission that just want to argue about my beliefs. You’re just looking for contention. Write you’re own post and comment is on the video. I’m not here to listen to you belittle me
Thank you for that powerful testimony of the Book of Mormon, the Church, and the Savior. I needed that today!
So question. Just because you don’t see it in the Bible, does that make it not true or wrong?
@@jacobsamuelson3181...does the Church have several break off groups or denominations as well? Community of Christ, FLDS, Rigdonites, just to name a few. All of them believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, all of them reference the Book of Mormon. So, it's not just protestants that have denominations.
The protestant denominations ALL agree on the nature of the Godhead, ie. the Trinity. They might disagree on secondary issues like the mode of baptism or the actual presence of Jesus at the sacrament (holy communion) but they are secondary in nature. Just wanted to share this as it is commonly misunderstood that all the protestants are fighting each other. It's only in that 1st vision video you share that makes it seem that way.
Didn't Brigham Young teach fervently about plural marriage, yet current LDS read D&C132 and completely dismiss that plurality of wives message. I think LDS are just as susceptible of disagreeing on different gospel topics based on what is in scripture or what a particular prophet said...kind of like in Fiddler on the Roof, right!
If this is a dealbreaker, why carry on reading the Book of Mormon? Seems like these videos are purposely for having people not to believe. Joseph Smith must have been the smartest theologian since the time of the apostles of yesterday to create such a book with the limited time BOM was put together. Seems to me the Holy Ghost had his hands in this BOM than someone randomly making this up. I’m being humbled to see the point of view instead of being a skeptic like Jeff respectively!!!
Yes if Joseph Smith is a false prophet, then the Book of Mormon is the most deceiving book that the Devil has made. On the other hand, no man without the power of God can translate this book. In my own experience, I know that the power of God has been manifested in every detail of this book. I indeed know that this Book is true and the Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God.
@@blenderesque708 not trying to be disrespectful towards Jeff but he knows his content will last on the interest for years to come. He knows anyone considering the Lds faith but has concerns about joining; they would be able to see his video commentaries and be persuaded to not join. It’s subtle and genius. The name “HELLO SAINTS” is a double entredre, a play on words. Not meant for Lds members but Bible believing Christians thinking about joining the LDS. He’s clearly not joining so why continue with these videos unless there is a hidden agenda? I believe this thought has crossed his mind at least once, and if not, he’s being ignorant about the future outcome of his actions with these videos.
The smartest theologian of all time???
Have you read the original edition of the Book of Mormon? Are you reading the same book I’m reading?
@@harryhenderson2479 to know the Bible, which JS didn’t know fully, and gather all these concepts of doctrine from old to New Testaments and randomly create a book based on these concepts to which no man has ever done since the beginning, testifying of Jesus Christ, which is an amazing feat that could only be done by the power of god because satan is not that clever nor would he testify of Jesus Christ that would bring people to him, so yes to me JS must’ve been a prophet or smartest theologian that ever existed. Any theologian trying to prove JS wrong, let him do the same thing with limited resources and time, and if any theologian can do this then I’ll become a skeptic but until then I stand on JS being a prophet!!!
@@anthonymagee5725 most of the concepts in the book are completely unoriginal. Have you read other similar books from his time? Have you researched other “prophets” from his time? If not, I’ll compile a list for you to look up.
I used to put God in a tiny mental box along with his Works in my head. I believe God can only do the things that were contained in that box. Then I became an atheist because God became so small in my own head then how could he be in the world? Wasn't until I came to him one last time with an open heart and an open mind that he revealed himself to me. I am once again in his flock I know that God is infinite. You're going to have a hard time in 3rd Nephi keeping God in a tiny mental box.
The addition of the sounds effects when you are highlighting. Its subtle and awesome. Im sure its not easy. Good job an making everything more entertaining over time. Thanks for all you do , and your peaceful approach.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I thought for sure you would point out the awesome scripture (one of my favorites) in Helaman 5:
12 And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation; that when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty storm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless wo, because of the rock upon which ye are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build they cannot fall.
The name of Christ was unknown at the time of the alleged writing of Helaman. It is alleged to be from BC. It kind of disproves the authenticity of the Book of Mormon.
@Artycloughiii you are assuming that the prophets of the Old Testament did not know the name of their Redeemer
@@jessekoeven3757 that’s what the text reveals. Incidentally, Christ is the Greek name. The Book of Mormon also uses the term Christian, hundreds of years before Christ. This is one way we know that the Book of Mormon is a product of the 19th century. How easy would it have been for the Jews to accept Jesus had their been revelation about his name.
@@Artycloughiii I would have to politely disagree, we believe that Joseph Smith translated the ancient text into words that made sense for our day, so whatever name they referred to Christ was then translated to the name Christ. For example they didn't say the actual word "sword" in the ancient BOM culture, but whatever word was used to represent "sword" was then translated to the closest thing that would make sense for us as readers. Whatever name they used for Christ during this BC time period still means Christ at the end of the day. That statement of yours does nothing to be honest to disprove the BOM.
@Artycloughiii wrong use of "their", this is used to denote possession. You are looking for "there".
Also, the Book of Mormon is shorter than the Bible. According to some studies the Bible has approximately 2900 men and 170 women or if removing potential duplicates 137 women to 1563 men. Conversely, there are approximately 188 unique to the Book of Mormon names (not including names in both the Book of Mormon and the Bible). There are approximately 3 named women (excluding Bible characters). There are groups of women or women that are not named that are mentioned (the wives of the sons of Lehi, the Lamanite daughters, the wife of King Lamoni, the mothers of the Stripling warriors, etc.). While the Bible does have more named females than the Book of Mormon, it is a longer book and based on the way the Book of Mormon was transcribed, it generally summarizes events and does not go into great depth. This is not a historical record. Mormon took elements off history and will go into detail on certain parts, but he isn't giving a full narrative of everyone.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
The Holy Spirit manifests Himself in the Old Testament too, such as:
1 Samuel 10:10
1 Samuel 19:20
1 Kings 19:11-12
And I’m sure there are more, but I don’t have time at the moment to look.
No one is denying the Holy Spirit existed in the OT. I'll do you one better even in Genesis 1:2
Genesis 1:2
[2] The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. (ESV)
The Holy Spirit did not act in the function of Comforter until after Acts 2.
Pastor Jeff, I just watched your Stick of Joseph interview. I wanted to let you know that I LOVE your Book of Mormon videos! I look forward to each and every one of them! I'm a little disappointed that you are only doing two more of them, but that is your choice. I guess all of us were hoping you would believe the Book of Mormon, but again that is your choice. I love your excitement as you relay what you have learned. Sorry you have been getting a lot of negativity recently. You are doing a lot of good and we really appreciate it! Most Pastors would probably refuse to even look. We appreciate your fairness and respectful tone. Keep up the good work! May God bless you!
I think it is very important that you read the book of Mormon with a humility and openness that it could be true. I know Jeff isn't going for that, but honestly i think hes not ready for it yet. With love,
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_GeoguessrAnd you have sincerely read it and asked God wanting to know and He told you it's false or you're just assuming?
@gordianknot9595 eternal truth is spiritually discerned, because we are spirits first. Our physical senses can be deceived more easily than our spiritual, if we are in tune with the holy ghost.
@gordianknot9595 Brigham young never said Adam was the father of our spirits. All I said was that I don't think Jeff is ready to read the book of Mormon.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
While there was some skipped spiritual content, I was really glad that Pastor Jeff mentioned the story of Samuel the Lamanite and how he was a Prophet of God and how the Lamanites became more righteous than the Nephites and the pride cycle that is so reminiscent and a significant message throughout the Book of Mormon. Also, he told those and other stories accurately from Heleman. And with each thing he mentioned that to him might be a flaw he also included possible explanations for them, which he didn't have to do. This is more than we could typically expect from those outside our faith if we're being honest.
But I do hope Pastor Jeff will see the spiritual power that is within the pages of this book which message was meant for our day to help bring people to Jesus Christ and His message of hope and love.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@Jozeemoss I invite you to read it for yourself and ask God with a sincere heart if it is true. You would say the same to someone who says the New Testament or Bible is fiction. We believe in the Bible - both the Old and New Testament - because the Holy Spirit witnessed to us it is true. So it is the same with the Book of Mormon which supports the Bible. It is a 2nd witness to the world that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. Just like the Bible, the Book of Mormon is meant to bring us closer to God, strengthen our testimony of Jesus Christ, help bring us to repentance, to be baptized in His name, recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost, and to live His gospel just as it was taught at the beginning of Christianity in the Bible.
@@josephine79 I invite you to test your prophet since the heart can deceive.
Jeremiah 17:
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Deuteronomy 18:
21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
@@josephine79 Do your prophet's pass the test?
@Jozeemoss The witness of the Holy Spirit, the Bible, the existence of the Book of Mormon, and many prophesies fulfilled have told me that yes, they do. Every Prophet in their own dispensation throughout the Bible and Book of Mormon were doubted by most people during their time to be Prophets of God because of the people's limited understanding, misunderstandings, false information, half truths, disbelief that a Prophet of God could be in their midst, absence of desire to believe and follow them, mistakes they make (which all Prophets do), and many other reasons.
If you or anyone would be interested in learning some of Joseph Smith's prophesies fulfilled, Joseph Smith's story, and a couple other profound stories, I have shared a few videos below.
But I recommend reading the Book of Mormon and of Joseph Smith's life from legitimate sources, listening to talks online by modern day Prophets of our church, and asking God sincerely if these are Prophets of God and if the Book of Mormon is true.
ruclips.net/video/BBAVZj62wVY/видео.htmlsi=Kuljy28NdsVfRNcT
ruclips.net/video/1xVw6PsSinI/видео.htmlsi=0UGF06vBNqF54Dip
ruclips.net/video/75D5UEPwP-Y/видео.htmlsi=Quj2IQnG8tGtY-2-
I'm disappointed that Jeff didn't mention the story about Nephi predicting that the chief judge was murdered by his brother. When the five witnesses ran to confirm the truth of Nephi's statement, they found him Just as Nephi said. This story has rich symbolism about how the death of Christ fulfills the witness of the five book of the Law of Moses.
These videos should be so much more than reading through the basic story and only stopping to point out things that are "problematic".
His readings won't please everyone especially. He's not there to preach or teach from the BoM - there are plenty of other resources for that. He is simply reacting to it as a Protestant and pointing out differences and similarities as he sees them. He's not doing this to affirm your beliefs. He is interested in what you believe, but does not believe them, at least he has not expressed that he believes them.
@@AaronGeller I doubt he believes them.
@AaronGeller The thing is, I'm not expecting him to affirm my beliefs. If anything, I'm expecting him to try to undermine them. That being said, it's not too much to ask try to appreciate the Book of Mormon on its own terms, or at least as important literature. I don't believe in the Bagavahd Gita, nor the Iliad, nor Beowulf, but I can appreciate a good story that has cultural importance to a large group of people. Jeff doesn't seem to have that in him. At least, if he does, he is choosing not to show it.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Be careful calling the word of God a fiction. There are many that would say the same of the Bible. You shouldn't stoop to that level.
Thanks as always, Jeff!
Since you asked about the supporting beliefs around “those who did good” versus those who did not and how they pertain to the kingdoms of glory…
Simply put…
Celestial = Being in the presence of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost to guide us. Bound together with their constant influence.
Terrestrial = Being in the presence of the Savior, Jesus Christ, at some times and in some forms and with the ability to be guided by the Holy Spirit as we choose.
Telestial = Similar to the way we know God now, we can be in the presence of the Holy Spirit to guide us.
Outer Darkness = In the “dark” as to the light of the Godhead. Where none dwell. Where none govern. Left with the criminality of those there to survive on our own.
Going back to the relationship of our Father in Heaven and His Son, you will read where the Father tells the people of Nephi that He has glorified the Son “in His name.” This is important because we can be glorified in the name of Son as we keep covenants and keep His commandments.
If we do this we have been promised joy. The kind that comes from being faithful and enduring and we can enter into the presence of the Son.
Those who confess Christ and believe can live with Him in His glory. They are those who have done “good.”
If we confess Christ but do not value Him we cannot expect His power in this life or the next. We cannot expect to be guided by the Holy Spirit.
Those who believe in eternal truths but not Christ or His teachings will not be given this joy. “Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ.” And in the next life as we understand His glory and goodness and power, we will want to be with Him. But we cannot until we follow.
So if we weren’t faithful or chose not to follow, that will be the source of our misery.
As to outer darkness or the degrees by which we are able to associate with the Savior and others, it will vary depending upon our wisdom; knowledge, faith and experiences.
Celestial glory is to know the Savior but also live with our Heavenly Father again. It’s to not just have the Spirit of the Holy Ghost to guide us.
To know of God’s glory later after choosing not to partake would be damnation. Our progress will have stopped, or will have been “damned.” And that would be the torment of any of us not to be able to partake because we are partitioned off and away.
You have spoken absolute unbiblical nonsense. Repent!
@@beheadedforthewitnesofjesu3445What?
@@saragroves4103 ,...Everything that was stated here is unbiblical nonsense. Mormonism is a 100% false manmade abomination. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the truth, the gospel, nor the Christianity of the Bible. It is the religion/cult of the accursed of God, of the spiritually dead and blind. Repent, and learn what the truth, the Goepel, and the Christianity of the Bible actually is.
@@beheadedforthewitnesofjesu3445 That kind of comment runs completely against the spirit of what Pastor Jeff is trying to accomplish with his channel. He's trying to build bridges so he can share the gospel truth as he understands it with people who he knows have different beliefs. And I think that's how anyone who considers themselves a Christian should try to share the gospel with other denominations. No one can bring another person to the truth by attacking them; that approach just causes others to stop listening.
@@markhenshaw2151 ,...Yes, I understand. This is because the truth I provided for your edification, is the opposite of the unbiblical nonsense jeff has presented. Jeff is not a Christian and has no Biblical understanding. Like the mormons, he is completely Biblically illiterate.
He appears to only be building a bridge for the fake christians that are deceived by him into the Godless cult of mormonism.
First off, I have attacked no one. Second, the preaching of the truth of the Bible (as I have done) is an offence to those who are outside the kingdom of God. This is why they will stop listening. The last thing any human wants is the truth. The ungodly will only listen to and believe lies and what is false. It is only the few who Jesus came to save that will listen to and hear the truth.
Also, no one can bring another to the truth, only Jesus can do this. A Christian simply presents the truth and gives a warning as I have done.
You lost me 3 seconds into the preview when you set up the argument for anachronism.
Maybe just admit that the anachronisms in the BoM are actually there but that in spite of that, you still believe in the book.
@@peaceful525 oh there are plenty of anachronisms. It’s just that the list is growing shorter by the year, either because they can be explained by the functional equivalent translation approach or because of archaeological/anthropological discovery.
The problem is Jeff here is arguing items that can already be checked off the list. I’ve got no time for that.
Keep it up Pastor Jeff! As I’ve been studying Romans recently I’ve thought about your videos a lot and how in your words we can, “talk past each other”. I feel like I can understand better now how evangelicals see those words as opposed to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I feel like I’m able to understand evangelical theology better and it feels less hollow than I previously thought. I hope you’re maybe discovering the same thing for us too.
As far as the heliocentric model. I don’t think I would personally make the argument that the Bible has lost those portions of truth. The Book of Mormon is only a small portion of the Nephite and Lamanite history. I think a Book of Mormon prophet might have seen the world in a vision. Similar to Moses’ vision in the Pearl of Great Price, “And it came to pass that Moses looked, and beheld the world upon which he was created; and Moses beheld the world and the ends thereof, and all the children of men which are, and which were created; of the same he greatly marveled and wondered.”
Or like how Nephi sees the birth of Jesus in vision in 1st Nephi.
That’s my own personal opinion though. 🙂
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Eternal damnation is more expressive and works more in the hearts of men. D&C 19 is wonderful in explaining exactly that concept
If something is complimentary to the Bible, is it copied? If there was nothing similar to the Bible and everything new, would it be consistent with the doctrine of Christ?
Thank you for using the full name of the Church at points in your videos! I'm using this video as part of my daily scripture study.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss God's word is powerful and I find solace in all His word including The Holy Bible and the Book of Mormon.
@@vendingguy47
How do you test a prophet?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Jesus Christ died for Our Sins According to the scriptures and that he was Buried and that he Rose again the third day praying for everyone everyday God Bless You All 🙏
You’re reading it like a Jewish rabbi reads the New Testament.
Open your heart.
Open his heart to what?
@@AaronGeller false doctrine.
@@BrendonKingclassic Brendon
I just found this series and now I’m going through and listening to all of them
“I converted to Mormonism when I was 22, and was a strong believer. After about 25 years as an LDS member, I began to study the New Testament. I came across the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles that I couldn't reconcile with LDS beliefs. The first thing that rocked my Mormonism was reading in Mathew about the man that died and his brother married his wife then they died and was married to 7 brothers, who was she married to in Heaven? Then the highest authority of all, Jesus Christ says she was married to none of them, because there is no marriage in Heaven. A core belief of the LDS is "marriage for time and all eternity" when you are married and "sealed" in an LDS temple, which I had been. If you aren't married in heaven then the temple is a lie. Then I learned the similarities between LDS temple rituals and the freemasons, and Joseph Smith was a mason. I kept reading and there was more, but that is where the beginning of the end of Mormonism was for me. Now, I am a bible believing Christian and so much happier than I ever was as a Mormon.”
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@strozha777 I read this book called Biblical Mormonism it goes over all sorts of things like that you should check it out!
I love listening to your analysis of the Book of Mormon! Most of my life, the Book of Mormon has been a "privileged" document, so we were always taught to approach the study of it with the faith, or assumption, it was true. Reading it with that bias is expected I guess, but it certainly made me unaware of the fair criticisms of the Book.
Hearing your feedback makes me think there's more to consider beyond just reading and praying - hearing out the criticisms, weighing the probabilities, trying to resolve the abundance of anachronisms have to be part of the process. If it stands up to muster than great, but if it doesn't we have to be prepared to follow truth wherever it lead us, even if its away from what we want to be true.
@@jeremysmith9694following Jesus without an oppressive religious system should be championed, not mocked ❤
@@jeremysmith9694 feelings can be quite deceiving
Hi! I think you're attitude is something we should all strive for. The Bible says that Jesus is the truth and we know that truth and lies cannot mix.
If you're interested learning more about why Protestants are skeptical of LDS claims, I would encourage you to search "The changing world of Mormonism" by Utah lighthouse ministries. It's written by people who used to be a part of the LDS faith but decided that they couldn't stay out of a similar desire to what you've just expressed (the need to follow God and truth wherever it leads).
While investigating stuff like this can be extremely emotionally taxing, I want you to know that God will be with you every step of the way. He loves you. He died for you. He wants you to worship him in spirit yes, but also in truth.
I'm going to pray a prayer right now for you. You're not alone in this
It should be available for free online
@@jeremysmith9694 if you have always lived in weather that’s always hot. Year round. You won’t ‘feel’ hot. It’s just all you know.
Either that or often people claim they are fine and they love their situation, even if it’s terrible. I deal with DV victims for a job and hear this quite often. Not saying the correlation is exactly the same, but the point remains that the church has felt oppressive to many, and others not.
Whether it’s good or bad can be subjective to the member even if it’s truly bad. Why is it bad? Because it’s a false gospel, with a belief in a false character of God and Jesus. Therefore, it’s bad. These are the beliefs of those skeptical on the outside looking in and those like myself, who’ve left after it being all I ever knew (born and raised in it) and finally see it for what it really is.
Appreciate you, sir. Thanks for sharing your insights. You inspire me to spend more time in the scriptures. 🙂
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I have a cross reference of Helaman 12: 15 when Joshua and his people were warring to conquer the land of the Canaanites in Joshua 10: 12-15 When the Moon and the Sun stood still.
Helaman 12:15 at first glance may look like it supports a heliocentric model (which is false), but not at all if you review the scripture in depth, and in context. Back up to the start of Chapter 12 and read through as “The Lord chastens His people” and “The nothingness of men is compared with the power of God”. Our nothingness is declared “less than the dust of the earth” since the dust (which is normally still) will move at the command of God. Hills and mountains (normally still) will tremble and quake or become smooth by His voice. The whole earth (normally still) will shake and the foundations (normally firm) rock by the power of His voice. And IF He tells the earth (normally still) to move, it moves. And IF he tells the earth (normally still) to go back, then it obeys and it then appears to man that the sun (normally rotating above the Earth) stands still…but in that case it is rather the earth (normally still) that God caused to move and not the sun. Continuing, if God says to waters (normally wet) to be dried, it is done. If God tells a mountain (normally fixed) to fall on a city, it is done. But we are less than the dust, for God gives us commands and we fail to obey time and time again. It is a wonder that despite our rebellion and despite our great sin, God loved us enough to die for us so we could be reconciled back to Him!
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss - The Book of Mormon, like the Bible, is true. Jesus Christ is the Word of God (Rev 19:13). The Bible does not mention the word "Bible" nor does it pretend that God's words would be limited to just 66 scrolls of scripture. The earlier Ethiopian Christian Bible has 89 books...and that was compiled based on what was available to them 1800 years ago. Jesus Christ was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and that certainly included the lost sheep of the 10 lost tribes of Israel scattered across the earth. They too heard His voice.
Matthew 15:24
“But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
John 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
John 21:25
"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."
Very nicely done. You brought some interesting, thoughtful questions, but I don't know enough to respond.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I love that you are reading the Book of Mormon to get an understanding of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. What is so awesome is you are not being critical and actually studying it as a pastor. Discussions that are kind between different religions are good to watch because its a coming together to find common ground.
I do appreciate the respectful conversation which Pastor Jeff encourages. I have a fuller understanding of both faiths.
I was feeling that way and I felt like I was learning a lot from his perspective and where he is coming from. Lately, he just seems more hostile than curious.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Jeff, I'm interested what's going through your mind as you are reading the Book of Mormon. Who wrote it? How did we get it? Is it from God? Is it from the mind of Joseph Smith, and if so - how?
Protestants believe that Joseph Smith wrote The book of Mormon. They do not believe it is from God. They do believe that the stories within the book of Mormon came from Joseph Smith's imagination. Protestants do not see the book of Mormon as being incapable of having been written by a young Joseph Smith in the same way they do not see the Quran as a document that an uneducated Muhammad could not have written.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Another great addition to the collection Pastor Jeff! Thanks again for your respectful manner. One trend I am seeing that has caught my attention especially in the last few installments. It seems that your quest for understanding is starting to morph a bit into spending more time explaining how the Latter-Day Saint doctrine is incorrect. It seems now your emphasis is to show how your interpretation of the scriptures is correct. Don't get me wrong, I find it fascinating - and don't see anything malicious in it. But maybe you should change the stated objective of your channel from understanding another groups belief system to comparing it to your own? Either way, I enjoy the content and am so glad that you're engaging with these two groups. Look forward to the next one!
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
You have to be very careful because if your testimony is not very well rooted in the true gospel he can and will persuade you, with his softness and niceness to go the other way. Be careful people. Let’s spent precious time listening to our prophet and apostles instead. Just saying. Heavenly Father knows what to do and how to it. And when to do it.
I have filled him with the spirit of God, Ex. 31:3.
Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied, 1 Sam. 10:10.
Spirit of God came upon Saul, 1 Sam. 11:6.
Spirit of God was upon the messengers, 1 Sam. 19:20.
Spirit of God came upon Zechariah, 2 Chr. 24:20.
Spirit of God hath made me, Job 33:4.
Spirit of the Lord God is upon me, Isa. 61:1.
Numbers 11:24-29. God puts his spirit upon all the elders and they begin to prophesy. Moses approves and prays that all God’s children will receive that spirit and be prophets.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Copy/paste/repeat
@@Jozeemoss
@@EastValleySheds
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
They way the binary "heaven and hell" was explained to me in seminary: Anything that is not eternal progression is damnation. Damnation is the cessation of progress. Everybody will end up in a kingdom of glory, but only those in the highest level of the celestial kingdom aren't damned.
And as far as the heliocentric model of the solar system, I've learned never to underestimate what ancient cultures knew. There's an arrogant Western attitude that only we understand reality, and previous generations were ignorant. Ancient Sumerians knew the Earth revolved around the sun. Abraham knew it. Moses knew it. If ancient people knew it, it was because the prophets taught it, while the "learned" of their day mocked the idea.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss Considering their fictitious nature, Christ's parables must be offensive to you (unless your standard isn't consistent).
@@cognitiveresonance339
Things that are different are not the same. Parables and prophecies are not the same and cannot be compared.
How do you test a prophet?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Hi Jeff. I have enjoyed your videos and appreciated the perspective you have shared about your beliefs and thoughts about what you are learning. However, I was sad to hear your comment that you were not reading the Book of Mormon to find out if it was true. In my mind, I would think that this would be a primary reason for anyone reading a book that claims to be another testament of Jesus Christ and that declares that he still lives. I would be interested in better understanding why you wouldn’t explore with this goal in mind or want to understand how a book that focuses so much on the mission of Jesus Christ could come to be.
Again, thank you for your curiosity and conversations. I always enjoy seeing your posts.
What I love about the Book of Helaman is the foreshadowing of today’s political world. This is why I love the BoM (which is what tethers me to stay active in the church more than anything else), because it gives me guidance specifically relating to what I must deal with in my lifetime.
The Bible is in (almost) every Christian church; but the teachings of the BoM further my understanding of God and JC, and additionally helps me get through daily life in my lifetime.
To answer his question on eternal happiness vs. eternal sadness, this is not binary but knowing what you achieved vs. what you could have achieved depending on the choices you made in this life.
Jeff's first Mistake: 10:15 to 11:30. Like the Jews who crucified Jesus, Jeff thinks his interpretation of scripture must be the right one and anything that deviates from his is a "deal breaker." It never occurs to him that he might be wrong. That God just might have "poured out" His Holy Spirit on His children prior to Jesus. His pride, like that of the first century Jews, is his downfall.
Just how does one spell Pharisee correctly?
Wait, and you think Joseph Smith’s story is credible?
@@harryhenderson2479You obviously have not investigated the Book of Mormon. The evidence for its authenticity as a Hebrew narrative is overwhelming. I am an attorney. I am not stupid. There is no other credible explanation other than the one Joseph and the witnesses gave. These witnesses who saw the plates, saw the angel, and wrote the text as he translated it were not part of some grand conspiracy to fool people. And, if you believe the Bible, like I do, you also believe in talking donkey's (Old Testament story), so seeing an angel and receiving the plates is really not that strange, given what is in the Bible.
4:38 There’s another book that mentions a future book. . . it happens in Revelation. I’m surprised that you would say that it does not happen in the Bible.
"I'm not reading the Book of Mormon to know if it's true..." nice so you've made up your mind beforehand that it's not true and still believe the Eternal God of Heaven and Earth doesn't have more words to give us than the Bible. Interesting... Good to know. We believe that as we live up to the light and knowledge we've received, God will give us more light and knowledge. I hope that one day you might open your heart and mind to the fact that there were other prophets called of God apart from those called in the land of Jerusalem. :) The Book of Mormon is true and I know it's true and I will never deny it. It testifies of Christ and it's His book.
As an evangelical I believe the Bible is infallible. As I understand the LDS church only agrees with it in so long as it agrees with the Book of Morman thus making the Bible fallible. If it lies or in incorrect about one thing how can one except any of it?
I think it is useful for Pastor Jeff to make his intent clear. In the same way that I, as a converted Latter-day Saint, would never read the Quran with an eye toward potentially converting to Islam, Jeff believes we aren’t “true” Christians and is not looking to examine The Book of Mormon or the doctrine of our Church through the lens of asking “could this be true?” The conversations we are engaging in with him are probably best had if we each understand the other’s genuine position. That’s not to say I wouldn’t love to see something he comes across as he continues to learn touch his heart and lead him to embrace the Church. I’m just saying I don’t feel surprised that he’s not reading to uncover truth; he’s reading strictly in order to compare and contrast.
@@nofamenofortune I personally don't believe limiting God or defending limiting God is rather useful or inspiring in any way.
@@SeanLaytonI’m not defending him limiting God. You and I agree that limiting God is why mainstream Christianity fails to uncover the further light and knowledge God desires to give us. But Jeff being clear about his purpose (which he says is NOT to discover the truth of The Book of Mormon) gives greater clarity to what his audience can expect from his channel.
Pastor Jeff is a Christian, indwelled by the Holy Spirit. If the BoM is true, do you lack the faith to believe that Jeff will come to that conclusion?
The concept of Heaven and Hell and saved and damned can seem a little confusing at first. Sometimes anything outside of Celestial glory and therefore outside of the presence of God the Father is spoken of as being damned because you're stopped from progression, you are damned in a way because you fall short of perfection or becoming like God and joint heirs with Christ. On the other hand, anything out of Hell itself is salvation through Christ because you are saved from Hell and complete eternal damnation. Everyone in the Telestial and Terrestrial worlds will be humbled repentant people who at some point before the final judgment have bowed their knees and their tongues have confessed that Jesus is the very Christ When reading the Book of Mormon you have to see it both ways because both ways are true. The plan of salvation with its three kingdoms of glory, and they are all glorious because all three are salvation through Christ, gives us insight into the application of God's perfect mercy and perfect justice.
I have wanted to say something to you for some time now. I am a little nervous because I am not always the best with words and I want to make sure I get this right. I listened to one of your videos where you described what your vision of heaven will be like. I believe it was in a discussion on temple marriage and how you did not see the need because in your doctrine we return to God without family relationships intact. Anyway, your description of heaven was exactly what we know the Terrestrial Kingdom to be. Even your explanation of the requirement to get there was pretty spot on to LDS doctrine of the Terrestrial Kingdom. What the Lord is trying to tell the world through His restored Gospel is that there is much more available. God, our Heavenly Father, wants to give us ALL that He has.
The Book of Mormon is so beautiful. I have enjoyed listening to your videos as you read through it. And even though you are giving a highly water down version, I feel the greatness in the purpose of the stories and faith of those who came before me. There are so many people presented in its pages that I have truly come to love. One thing I love about the Book of Mormon is how very present Jesus Christ is in the lives and events of the people of the Americas. It truly is Another Testament of Jesus Christ. And though it is true that few women get mentioned by name, there is definitely a presence of the women throughout the book. Several times in the book prophets mention the difficulty of writing on the gold plates but that they did so to make sure the records would be preserved. They did write other things on other materials but those they know would not stand the test of time. I am sure with the difficulty of writing on the plates it just wasn't worth it to write a comprehensive list of all the righteous mothers of the 2000 stripping warriors. :)
I know I am going long but just one more thing. We have no idea what the extent of knowledge the people of the Book of Mormon had about the universe. The concept of the universe is mentioned more than once and you have to remember that the one writing is a prophet of God. No matter what the general consensus of the population of people around him he would have been able to receive truth about the sun and the planets from God himself. The idea that a prophet knows more than the local scientists does not bother me, rather it comforts me. I am so grateful for a living prophet today.
I think you’d enjoy connecting with Anthony Sweat and reading through the Doctrine and Covenants. Just putting that out there…!
Nice try at trying to explain away the "power" of the priesthood as some amorphous ethereal omnipresent thing. Yes Christ did many things for the good of mankind but He never took away mankind's agency even through His suffering and death and resurrection, which is what you sound like you are referring to. The only one who wants mankind to believe that everything was done for them and that they, as God's children, have nothing else to do is lucifer, that evel, vile father of all lies. We, as God's children will always have our agency to folllow Christ or not, if we follow Him we must obey His commandments and do His will as He did His Fathers will. Else what is a statement of belief but mere words with no substance.
Jeff, If you don't think that God could or would pour out his Spirit to people upon the earth until after Christ came, does that mean you think God is a changeable God? That he treated the people before Christ came different than he does those after he came?
As far as the scientific understanding, that has varied throughout history just as it does today. We believe Abraham was a great prophet who understood many spiritual and scientific things like the stars and how the earth revolves around the sun.
I think the structure of the statement "surely it is the earth that turns around the sun" seems to show that there was indeed a wide consensus among these people that it was the other way around and the narrator wanted to correct that false point of view, because somehow he came to know the correct cosmology unlike many others at that time.
In any case, I think we've grossly underestimated how much people in ancient times knew and there is evidence of that in metallurgy and construction, and other things we see in archeology that we just can't explain how they did it or that we are surprised even existed that far back in the past.
Geo-centric view of universe came from 6th Century BC Greek. Thay was AFTER Nephi left.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr There were pockets of individuals who believed in a heliocentric model, but were largely passed off as weirdos.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Yep, so I don't see how a culture with a looser grasp of science would be more inclined to embrace such a radical idea back in those days.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I've been rereading the book of Mormon and I bought this set called "the Book of Mormon made easier". I listen to the audio book while reading and highlighting in my physical book. They also do great references to the Bible and comparisons to the messages in the Bible vs the Book of Mormon
Hey Pastor Jeff! You said you wanted an explanation from a Latter-day Saint regarding the binary presented when prophets in the Book of Mormon speak on the afterlife.
The way this is viewed among Church scholars is that the BoM peoples had a binary understanding of the afterlife (same as the ancient Jews they descended from would have had), and the information regarding the three kingdoms of glory is something that came as later revelation, both at least to Paul (as detailed in our understanding of 1 Corinthians 13, although how much of what he understood is unclear) and in much greater detail to Joseph Smith now recorded in D&C 76.
Essentially, it doesn't fit into the three kingdoms because they didn't even have that concept back then. Some may view "eternal damnation" as not having "increase" (which is identified in D&C 132 (I think) as being part and parcel of celestial glory), but it seems more to me that they BoM people didn't need to understand the three kingdoms of glory, and thus never did, as it doesn't seem to have been much of a stumblingblock for them.
The interesting thing about anachronisms in anthropology is it still requires belief. Incontrovertible evidence is hard to come by, so sincere truth seeker is left to accumulate as much evidence as possible and make a choice of belief. If you’re a skeptic, it’s belief against positive evidence ever being found or you assume the current evidence is sufficient to justify your confidence.
The question you have to consider for yourself at that point is what is motivating me to make that choice in belief, since it’s still a choice. Especially if I’m not an expert in the field, trusting (or distrusting) in anthropologic anachronisms exposes my underlying bias.
At this point I’m not aware of any incontrovertible evidence to dispute the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. It’s almost like it was designed to remain in the realm of choice. I don’t have a reason to “harden my heart” yet because the spiritual evidences outweigh the lack of physical evidences.
For me it’s more about what BoM conveys as a 2nd witness of Christ and that He is the only model we should follow for spiritual progression and that salvation is only possible through him.
2 Nephi 25:29 “the right way is to believe in Christ”
2 Nephi 9:41 “there is none other way save it be by the…Lord God”
Mosiah 3:17 “there shall be no other name given nor any other way nor means whereby salvation can come unto the children of men, only in and through the name of Christ”
Alma 11:40 “he shall come into the world to redeem his people; and salvation cometh to none else”
Helaman 5:9 “remember that there is no other way nor means whereby man can be saved, only through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ”
I learn more about Him from the BoM that only enhances and deepens my love and devotion to the same savior taught in the New Testament.
When you read about miracles and Spiritual things happening that are difficult to believe only the spirit can give you witness that it is of God. The Bible and the Book of Mormon aren't in competition. Rather it's The old testament, The new Testament, And another testament. What is it a testament of? It's a testament of Jesus Christ.
23:49 Yes this means they who have Done Evil are CAST OUT to Outer Darkness.
Those who have Done Well will be rewarded with LIFE ETERNAL in one of the Different Degrees of Glory💪🏽
WHAT A LOVING GOD OUR HEAVENLY FATHER IS🙏🏽
The absolute fact is, it is all you deceived mormons who are those who have done evil. You are going to all be cast into the lake of fire/outer darkness. Repent!
@@beheadedforthewitnesofjesu3445Friend, it's actually true. Pray about it with a sincere and open heart.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Always appreciate your videos and perspectives Jeff, and good work keeping all those names and sons straight! It can be confusing sometimes.
Regarding the heavenly eternal life and damnation of hell... this explanation may seem a little silly, but I think it still illustrates it well. Yes, we do believe in the 3 degrees of glory of heaven though it's not addressed specifically in the Book of Mormon. Think of it like this though, as a parent, would you go to any of your kids and say, "Son/daughter, I want you to do your best and get that third place medal. I know you can do it!" No, of course you wouldn't, because you want your kids, all of them to achieve that 1st place trophy. And yes, there is still that 2nd and 3rd place medal, but you don't want them to focus on those, you want them to focus on the highest honor because you know that they will have done their absolute best and will be so incredibly happy when they achieve it and you'll be so excited and happy for them as well.
The great thing about the celestial kingdom is there is not a limit to one first place winner, there can be as many first place winners as are willing to give it their absolute best. But that doesn't mean that all the rest who came up a little short in their efforts are worthy of eternal damnation. That wouldn't be just and we of course know that God is merciful and just. Anyway, this is why I think there is the main focus on eternal life. Of course there is always the warning of eternal damnation for those who outright rebel and are unrepentant. The conditions of this mortal probation must be made known for those who choose good and those who choose evil.
For those who are not members of the Lords' church, if they never hear of it, or if they know of it yet reject it in life, there is provision for them to be taught the fulness of the gospel in the spirit world. This is where Jesus went after His crucifixion where He "taught them that were dead". The spirit world is divided into two parts, paradise and spirit prison. (Remember, Jesus didn't ascend to heaven until after He had talked with Mary, then returned to His disciples who could then touch/handle Him) Those authorized servants who have entered into the rest of the Lord, paradise, go to those in spirit prison and teach them. (The thief on the cross must already have been baptized as well as have been a priesthood holder, but had sinned, yet confessed to Jesus who could then forgive which is why he could join Jesus in Paradise) This way no one is forgotten or left behind and no one can claim the excuse that they did not know. Then, after having been taught in full, they can accept or reject the gospel there. Just as when we do ordinance work for the dead, they'll be told in the spirit world their baptism or endowment, etc has been done and they can accept or reject it. Now if they accept, they can move forward in their eternal progress and fulfill that eternal potential of gaining eternal life. If they reject it, then they have no claim on the atonement of Jesus Christ and must pay for their own sins, suffering even as Jesus suffered. Once they have paid for their own sins, they will be released into the telestial kingdom. Eternal damnation is reserved for murderers and those who had accepted the gospel, received that testimony of light and truth and then turned and rejected it and denounced it publicly, also known as the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. These are the sons of perdition. If you like, you can read more about the conditions for each degree of glory as well as hell or outer darkness in Doctrine & Covenants 76. The 3 degrees of glory are lightly touched on in 1 Corinthians 15:40-42 where it talks about bodies celestial and terrestrial and "so also is the resurrection of the dead" where we can receive a celestial body, terrestrial body, etc. ;)
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss it's a good thing then the Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price aren't fiction, because they're scripture and history revealed by the power of God. 😄
@@robertbarrett487
What is Gospel?
John 18:
37Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
God is truth which is Gospel.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
But.......
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
And the heart can deceive.
Jeremiah 17:
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
How can we test the truthfulness of Gospel?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
God makes the Gospel simple and testable for our protection. Things that are different are not the same. True Christianity bares all three witnesses of God (1Father, logos, logic, reasonable) (2Jesus, body, archaeology, tangible) (3Holy Ghost, soul, feeling, spiritual) The truth shall set you free but leaving the Pharaoh is hard since the first step is always the desert.
Mathew 22:
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
What is fiction and why? Joseph Smith's "translated"/defiled Bible along with other made up scripture is in opposition to the truth since the Bible was never lost. 1,000 manuscripts of the Old Testament oldest of which date to the Dead Sea Scrolls year 150 Before Christ. There are 5,800 manuscripts of the New Testament some of the oldest being found in the Bodmer Papyri year Anno Domini 150. Thats right, the oldest New Testament manuscript dates to just 50 years after the Apostles first gave the word and validates the mainline Bibles of today! Unless of course one believes Joseph Smith set those 6,800 manuscripts right with his vandalised text.
"King James Bible"
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
"Joseph Smith Translated Bible"
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.
Which one is correct the one that is backed up by the Dead Sea Scrolls and Bodmer Papyri? Or the one that strips our LORD and Saviour of deity reducing him to a demigod and the Trinity to a polytheistic orgy?
Revelation 1:
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
What ancient Egyptian Sounlike Like - and how we know
ruclips.net/video/J-K5OjAkiEA/видео.html
The Lost Book of Abraham: Investigating a Remarkable Mormon Claim
ruclips.net/video/hcyzkd_m6KE/видео.html
Elder Holland admission the Book of Abraham doesn't match archaeology evidence.
ruclips.net/video/goRh2amv60A/видео.html
Test of a Prophet: The Bible vs. Joseph Smtih
ruclips.net/video/FrqkaKz_SSg/видео.html
The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon
ruclips.net/video/2AVksae-Frk/видео.html
LDS Mormon Prophet Russell Nelson Book of Mormon Seer Stones & Hat Translation Explained
ruclips.net/video/DG181zFA5YM/видео.html
@@Jozeemoss
What is the Gospel of Jesus Christ? Simply this: Have faith in Jesus Christ. Sincerely repent of your sins. Be baptized in His name for the remission of sins. Remain faithful to His commandments enduring faithful to the end of your days. That’s it. And there is nothing in the Book of Mormon that is counter to that Gospel.
Have you ever written a book?? Because I have and I can tell you that it’s no simple task! Especially a fiction! In a fraud or lie, it’s so hard to keep everything straight as opposed to the truth. Here’s the truth:
Joseph was reported by several eyewitnesses to have translated the Book of Mormon within 85 days. Take off approximately 10 days because of other events such as moving to another location to avoid harassment and thieves and that leaves 75 actual working days. He had to have translated no less than 6.25 large parchment pages, handwritten, per day to accomplish this.
It took me a couple years to plan out my fantasy book. I had to draw out a map because I kept getting lost in my own world. I had to write out genealogies to keep things straight and organized, bio descriptions of many main characters all which I referenced regularly. It took me 6 months to write my book and I had to start over 3 times. Then once written, I had to edit it 4 times and there were still mistakes I missed. And I hold a higher education level, by 8 or 9 grades, than Joseph Smith.
Joseph was 10 years younger than me at 23, when he started translating. Never referred to any notes. Never started over once. Never looked at a map and never made a mistake on directions people were traveling within the narrative. (That’d be a huge and easy mistake to detect if it were a fraud) Never asked where he left off when they started translating again. No editorial mistakes.
Joseph, a grade school education level farm boy, would also have had to have been expertly skilled in Chiasmus. Chiasmus is an ancient Near Eastern writing style found in the Bible and other ancient texts in which a list of ideas is presented in a deliberate order and then repeated in reverse around a central focal point. But this wasn’t discovered in the Book of Mormon for over 130 years. How did the “expert” critics miss that? Not only are chiasmus found within several chapters, but the Book of Mosiah within the Book of Mormon is written in a complex chiasmus structure that spans 29 chapters! So you tell me, how did a poor, ill-educated farm boy who never had college level education in ancient languages or civilizations and never left the United States write out several original chiasmus so correctly?!? And of which was not discovered for over 130 years?! And this is just one example of the complexity of the Book of Mormon.
People also like to take issue with Joseph Smith being a prophet as well as all those who followed him right up to the current day prophet who is Russel M Nelson. They claim that he can’t be a prophet because he doesn’t follow a standard of what they think or believe a prophet should be. Ok, great.
CHALLENGE: In your search for truth, at least be honest and consistent. Let’s look at a couple examples and see how Biblical prophets stand up to the test.
Complaint: Joseph and other church leaders practiced polygamy.
In the Bible it is clear that prophets in some instances had multiple wives, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob among others. If you hold that Joseph, Brigham and others can’t be prophets of God because they practiced polygamy, then those Biblical prophets also fail your prophet standard.
Complaint: Priesthood authority limited; was not given to blacks. (Note: not by Joseph Smith)
Oh, yes, Moses (or God if you like) restricted priesthood authority to the Levite bloodline. Only the Levites, sons of Aaron could officiate in the office of the priest.
If you hold that Joseph, Brigham and others can’t be prophets of God because they restricted priesthood authority, then Moses in particular fails your prophet standard.
Adding to the Bible!
Oh yes, people Love to point this one out.
“Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:”
Ok, well, what about this one (people seem to forget)
“Deuteronomy 4:1 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the Lord God of your fathers giveth you.
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.”
Does that mean that anything added beyond what Moses was commanded to write is all false? Fiction? Or is it simply referring to that particular book of scriptures: Deuteronomy... Revelation...
The Bible isn't a book, it's a library of books, songs, genealogies, histories, commandments, and more!
But I digress. Let’s go back to Revelation 22:18. God commands and warns that no one shall add to this book. Or consequences: God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.
CHALLENGE: If Joseph Smith added to the Bible in violation of that command and warning… Where are the plagues as consequence to that violation?
Joseph was shot to death, true. A bullet is not a plague. Second, God does stir up angry mobs through fear, anger, or hatred.
You could point to when the Saints were settling the Utah valley that a swarm “plague” of crickets came in threatening to destroy their crops… but then something happened. Seagulls came in and just like a miracle, ate up all the crickets sparing the Saints from starvation.
Now, are you going to tell me that the early Mormon pioneers who believe in additional scripture, as provided through Joseph Smith, were being punished by God through a plague of crickets… but then what… the devil was able to overpower the judgement of God and the plague of crickets He sent to punish them? Really? Or did God have a change of heart?
@@Jozeemoss
People also claim the Bible is complete and perfect and they don’t need or believe in further revelation from God or scripture. Well… let’s look at that! Would you agree that those who wrote the scriptures of the Bible were called, authorized and inspired to do so? Would you also agree that if they referenced something in their writing, that it too must also be authentic; meaning that what they reference is also true revelation inspired of God? You can see many examples of this, even Jesus Christ Himself referenced passages of scripture. So if you agree that this is all correct, what about these books and passages referenced by the prophets of God?
book of the Wars of the Lord (Num. 21:14)
book of Jasher (Josh. 10:13; 2 Sam. 1:18)
book of the acts of Solomon (1 Kgs. 11:41)
book of Samuel the seer (1 Chr. 29:29)
book of Gad the seer (1 Chr. 29:29)
book of Nathan the prophet (1 Chr. 29:29; 2 Chr. 9:29)
prophecy of Ahijah (2 Chr. 9:29)
visions of Iddo the seer (2 Chr. 9:29; 12:15; 13:22)
book of Shemaiah (2 Chr. 12:15)
book of Jehu (2 Chr. 20:34)
sayings of the seers (2 Chr. 33:19)
an epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, earlier than our present 1 Corinthians (1 Cor. 5:9)
possibly an earlier epistle to the Ephesians (Eph. 3:3)
an epistle to the Church at Laodicea (Col. 4:16)
and some prophecies of Enoch, known to Jude (Jude 1:14)
Where are they? They’re mentioned in the Bible in such a way that it is evident they were considered authentic and valuable by those prophets who sited or referenced them… Why are they not included in the Bible?
People Love to claim there is no archeological evidence in the US of the events described in the Book of Mormon. What I LOVE to point out is there is a Ton of archeological evidence in the heartland and much of the work was already done by expert archaeologists and historical experts who are Not members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So, no bias can be claimed there. Sorry.
There’s DNA evidence, burial mounds, artifacts, clothes, weapons, armor such as breast and head plates, stones inscribed with block Hebrew dating back long before Columbus. The carbon dated timeline of what is known as the Hopewell culture fits perfectly within the Nephite timeline by a few decades. The geometric complexity of the thousands of ancient cities found in the heartland show highly educated people that rivaled that of the early Egyptians. A temple site, thousands of years old, found in Tennessee matches that of ancient Egypt. The Nephites were familiar and educated in Egyptian language and customs. And all of this has been well and expertly documented.
Other temple sites have been discovered and all have ramps, because it is a violation of the law of Moses to go up by steps. “Exodus 20: 26 Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.”
An alter was discovered in Ohio of stacked, unhewn stone that, again, observes the law of Moses, “Exodus 20:25 And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.” And the alter discovered in Ohio matches exactly a Hebrew alter in the Negev desert at the temple of Arad. Hundreds of smelting sites have also been discovered. If the Indians were just ancient savages, how is it smelting sites for complex metal work have been discovered within the Book of Mormon timeline?
Here’s just one video that covers a small percentage of the archaeological evidence available.
ruclips.net/video/rHVh3bDYGRE/видео.html
So you tell me… how did Joseph Smith manage to write such a complex and wisdom filled “fiction” at the inexperienced and poorly educated age of 23 and how did he pull off such a fraud so as to place millions of pieces of evidence and thousands of ancient city sites as documented extensively all over the heartland of North America and then make the carbon dating match his mythical fairy tale timelines, noting that carbon dating technology is something that he couldn’t possibly conceive of and wasn’t invented until almost 100 years after he was killed?
Yeah, I’ve seen so many of those anti Mormon videos and pages and they’re quite honestly lazy and feeble attempts to denounce and attack what they don’t want to or are afraid to understand. I don’t find any of it impressive or enlightening. Frankly, they’re disingenuous. And one of their favorite tactics to try to “disprove” the Book of Mormon is the take things said by current or previous church leaders’ way out of context. That’s dishonesty or you could even say, “bearing false witness.”
Thanks for another informative video, Jeff. It was easy to see that you put in some work to be able to understand the intricacies of the storyline. Nice job! I would have loved to have heard some of your thoughts on some of the truths taught in Helaman that Latter-day Saints consider to be precious. For example, Helaman 5:12; Helaman 3:28-30; and Helaman 14:13.
As you read 3 Nephi, in addition to discussing storyline and how different aspects align or do not align with your perspectice (which I find very informative, by the way), it may be helpful for you to also pause and discuss some of the truths that we Latter-day Saints hold dear to our hearts, such as what is taught in 3 Nephi 9:13-18; 11:10-17; and all of 3 Nephi 12-14.
One other thought: As you continue studying the Book of Mormon, I think it can be helpful to periodically ask yourself where this all could have come from if it was not from God. Joseph Smith, a man with very little formal education in his early twenties living in frontier America in the 1800s, does not seem capable of producing a book with so many intricate details on his own. If he didn't do it, who did? And why would they write a book that is intended on helping people follow Jesus Christ? If you're interested, Elder Tad R. Callister's October 2017 general conference talk ("God's Compelling Witness: The Book of Mormon") addresses some of these questions. It's a great read. www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2017/10/gods-compelling-witness-the-book-of-mormon?lang=eng
“I converted to Mormonism when I was 22, and was a strong believer. After about 25 years as an LDS member, I began to study the New Testament. I came across the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles that I couldn't reconcile with LDS beliefs. The first thing that rocked my Mormonism was reading in Mathew about the man that died and his brother married his wife then they died and was married to 7 brothers, who was she married to in Heaven? Then the highest authority of all, Jesus Christ says she was married to none of them, because there is no marriage in Heaven. A core belief of the LDS is "marriage for time and all eternity" when you are married and "sealed" in an LDS temple, which I had been. If you aren't married in heaven then the temple is a lie. Then I learned the similarities between LDS temple rituals and the freemasons, and Joseph Smith was a mason. I kept reading and there was more, but that is where the beginning of the end of Mormonism was for me. Now, I am a bible believing Christian and so much happier than I ever was as a Mormon.”
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Also reading 3 Nephi 11 and what happens next is historical miracle. Wonderful! About the writing of Moroni 10:3-5! I personally know this is true.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
One thing I noticed in mainstream Christianity is that they tend to always almost every passage in the scripture that's a bit deep, point out someone's heart's status towards the gospel how the are changed to righteousness. Rather than understanding that heaven is a house of ORDER. One explaination is "one cannot be saved unless he or she does it" "one cannot obtain a particular blessing unless he obeys it"... Meaning being saved or exalted in the Highest cannot be obtained only by just being "good" "righteous" "we ACCEPTED Jesus in our hearts completely" very common in their teachings, but you know I am not against it it is absolutely true and good but please keep in mind that even Jesus Himself says no one can enter the Kingdom only by being good or calling lord lord, but he who doeth the will of the Father. I don't think He would teach us the proper way to pray or baptize etc if people can just come up with their own ideas of how to be saved.So please pastor Jeff explore how God does it in order. I know to many its challenging to be good or to accept Jesus into their lives but I disagree that on them hangs our salvation. We need living prophets to interpret the scriptures for us
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I really appreciate the fresh view and perspective he offers. It is refreshing and groundbreaking what he is doing with this channel.
Though I'm not sure I totally understand his hangup with the Acts-like outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Is it really hard to believe that this could happen prior to the coming of Christ? I know there's probably no precedent in the Bible but doesn't mean it couldn't happen right?
Also, astronomy... if there's anything we know about the ancients in America, it's that they knew their stars and studied them. A lot. We are continually finding abandoned evidence of this, even in the Mississipian area with the mound builders. As he will come to read though, ancient knowledge was lost due to (spoiler alert!) major cultural extinction events. Not to mention the devastation that occurring from european colonization, decimating native populations. It's no wonder some knowledge and truth was lost.
Saludos desde Lima -Perú , que Dios te beniga a ti y tu familia.
Just a quick note, watching your other videos have been a great experience being a member my whole life and just coming home from my mission. I just wanted to say that when you have those problem spots (which like you i have too) I push by having faith or trust in what i am reading. I believe that God wouldn't give me something to read without helping me understand that it is his workings. I hope you can find that same trust that what you are reading has something true and not focus or even point out that there are "problem sections".
Thanks you for your videos, and can't wait to see what you think and feel about the rest of the Book Of Mormon.
"...not focus or even point out that there are "problem sections". Wow. Please think on why this is very problematic.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Thank for sharing the BOM. I no longer consider myself LDS. I love that you are trying to see value in the BOM because I believe it testifies of Jesus and that to me makes it good. God be with you as you share your prospective.
As far as your observation about oaths and covenants, you nailed it on the head! And that is why I’m out. The scriptures, made it abundantly clear first Isaiah, then taking seriously the Book of Mormon, we are the ones reading it. It is meant to awaken LDS to our awful situation.
Adam Abraham and all the ancients knew the true nature of the universe. We say the sun goes up and down too, doesn't mean we literally believe it.
When it comes to questions about passages that seem to refer to a binary heaven/hell -- I believe that a lot of those passages are meant NOT to refer to the three tiers of glory, but are meant to refer to the spirit world. The spirit world is a place where spirits are meant to reside after death but before the millennium and final judgment. It is only after the final judgment that we are sent to the different tiers of glory. The spirit world contains a system much closer to a binary heaven/hell. With spirit paradise being the place that good acts/people go, and spirit prison being the place where evil acts/people go. While this may be confusing when scripture is phrased in ways such "an everlasting good place" or "an everlasting misery", most people kind of interpret these as our time spent in the spirit world (and by extension, everyone's respective spirt paradise/prison designation) will be so long that in our human comprehension it would seem everlasting.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemossalright man, you clearly don’t get the point of this channel. I’m not even a memeber of the LDS church anymore, I was just answering a moment of confusion that Pastor Jeff had from one of the passages
@@harley69
Born and raised in the church. Read the Book of Mormon through plenty, graduated from seminary, even got a mission call. Didn't go because I didnt then and still don't believe in putting works before faith. The doctrine that I would be preaching was not logical or tangible. Faith is logical, faith is tangible in the natural world, as well as the giving you a confirmation through the spirit. The only witness that is preached from the LDS church is the spiritual while leaving the other two of the three witnesses of our LORD out. Faith/Gospel is Logical, Tangible & Spiritual. Only a cult would say do blind works and call it faith when actually it is prideful arrogance. Faith is enlightenment not blindful obedient action.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
@@Jozeemoss again, you clearly don’t get the point of the channel. I don’t care if you were part of the church - you still don’t respect it as a religion, which again, IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS CHANNEL
@@harley69
Unfortunately if it is salvation only after all we can do then all are damned to hell.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death;
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Every one is under the penalty of death since all have sinned. No amount of works pays for sin. Works does not gain access to heaven. Before Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us came the only way to redeem sin was to sacrifice animals in our place.
Leviticus 17:
1¶And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2Speak unto Aaron, and unto his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them; This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded, saying,
3What man soever there be of the house of Israel, that killeth an ox, or lamb, or goat, in the camp, or that killeth it out of the camp,
4And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer an offering unto the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD; blood shall be imputed unto that man; he hath shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people:
5To the end that the children of Israel may bring their sacrifices, which they offer in the open field, even that they may bring them unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest, and offer them for peace offerings unto the LORD.
6And the priest shall sprinkle the blood upon the altar of the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and burn the fat for a sweet savour unto the LORD.
The good news is God, even though all of us are worthy of death he is rich in mercy and provided the ultimate sacrifice by offering himself to pay for all our sin. The same way a judge can let criminal go if someone pays the fine. That is why Jesus said "John 19:30 It is finished:" transaction complete.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Salvation is though saving faith which produces works. A false profession of faith does not produce works. And works put before saving faith does not produce saving faith. The order matters. If the first of the ten Commandments is broken
Exodus 20:
3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
then salvation is in jeopardy. Works don't matter if it's for made up Gods that cannot save. Only a cult would say do blind works and call it faith when actually it is prideful arrogancy. Faith is enlightenment not blindness.
Helaman Chapter 3 is a great example of why the Book of Mormon was written by Ethiopian Jews in Ethiopia. The migration Northward is back North to Egypt. Many verses are a rebuttal to Jeremiah 44 where Jeremiah explicitly warns of going to Egypt. It's fascinating to see this once you know. I tend to feel a little sorry for those that have no clue what I'm talking about.
When Helaman 3 says the migration is North to a "treeless" land. That's Egypt. The description of Egypt is complicated by attempting to describe the oasis of the Nile Delta. The "cement" construction is the stone buildings we can still see in Egypt today. The Timber that is shipped is Cedar from Lebanon. It is well known that Egypt used timber shipped from Lebanon.
Why does Helaman 3:6 explain and define what a "desolation" is? If you read Jeremiah 44 you'll see the strong warning to not go to Egypt. Jeremiah says Jerusalem is a "desolation" and Egypt will become the same. This is one reason why Lehi did not stay in Egypt but continued on, up the Nile, to Ethiopia. In Helaman 3 we see they are returning to Egypt and it is necessary to rebut Jeremiah 44.
Helaman 3:12 describes the people of Ammon. These migrants are obviously coming from modern day Jordan. It is a known fact that the Bible defines the Ammonites and where they come from. Once you see the Book of Mormon was written by Ethiopian Jews, all the puzzle pieces fall perfectly into place.
Elephants? Ethiopia has elephants, America does not.
I think that we on were never mentioned much but throughput early historians were common. But we read of quite a few y in the Book of Mormon what about the mothers of the sons of Hellman and many others . Those on the American continent were very skilled in knowledge of the earth as found in their history. Just because the bible does not mention something doesn’t mean God can and did reveal that which he chooses to whom He chooses to others of his people. carol
Regarding your reference to Helaman 12:25-26. "And I would that all men might be saved.
But we read that in the agreat and last day there are some who shall be cast out, yea,
who shall be cast off from the presence of the Lord; Yea, who shall be consigned to a
state of endless misery, fulfilling the words which say: They that have done good shall
have everlasting life; and they that have done evil shall have everlasting damnation".
Doctrine and Covenants 76:103 says the telestial inhabitants are the liars, sorcerers,
adulterers, and whoremongers.
Have you talked to Jerod Halverson?
17:30 Concerning loosing and binding things on earth and heaven. If Jesus was only talking about loosing oneself from sin and binding oneself to him, why did Jesus say, “whatever you bind?” And “whatever you loose?” Shall be bound or loosed in Heaven. Last time I checked, the word “ whatever” was more inclusive than one or two things.
Also, if Jesus’ words to Peter have nothing to do with spiritual power outside being forgiven, why did he say them in Matthew 18 in association with casting people out of the church in verse 17 and asking “for anything” in the name of the Lord in verse 19?
This scripture is mostly important to Latter-day Saints because we believe that Jesus allowed certain contracts we make on earth to survive beyond this world.
Will you be reading pearl of Great Price and Doctrine and Covenants after the BOM?
Curious: How are finances and organization handled in the church you pastor Jeff? Is there leadership that you work with? Seems that someone has asked you to tow the line more. This video comes across more like you’re trying to reassure evangelicals that you’re still playing for the team.
so unless he sheds tears, finds truth and meaning in the BOM hes not being sincere? I'm sure your of the opinion that if someone reads the BOM and doesn't receive confirmation of its truthfulness the reader didn't read it it correctly. your not curious about anything, you came here to accuse. you ever wonder why less than 1% of living humans on the earth are Mormon?
24:00 Outer darkness is reserved for those who, even after having a perfect knowledge of God, reject Him (the Sons of Perdition). The Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial Kingdoms are all degrees of glory and are peaceful. Outer darkness is beneath them all.
In our faith, the saying "whatsoever thou shalt bind on Earth shall be bound in Heaven and whatsoever thou shalt loose on Earth shall be loosed in Heaven" is the sealing power.
For us, it's the power by which we are sealed together as families, but it's so much more than that as you will see later. It gets pretty wild what Nephi does with this power.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss However, it's not fiction. That's what makes it so amazing.
@@richardjohansen5371
What is Gospel?
John 18:
37Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
God is truth which is Gospel.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
But.......
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
And the heart can deceive.
Jeremiah 17:
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
How can we test the truthfulness of Gospel?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
God makes the Gospel simple and testable for our protection. Things that are different are not the same. True Christianity bares all three witnesses of God (1Father, logos, logic, reasonable) (2Jesus, body, archaeology, tangible) (3Holy Ghost, soul, feeling, spiritual) The truth shall set you free but leaving the Pharaoh is hard since the first step is always the desert.
Mathew 22:
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
What is fiction and why? Joseph Smith's "translated"/defiled Bible along with other made up scripture is in opposition to the truth since the Bible was never lost. 1,000 manuscripts of the Old Testament oldest of which date to the Dead Sea Scrolls year 150 Before Christ. There are 5,800 manuscripts of the New Testament some of the oldest being found in the Bodmer Papyri year Anno Domini 150. Thats right, the oldest New Testament manuscript dates to just 50 years after the Apostles first gave the word and validates the mainline Bibles of today! Unless of course one believes Joseph Smith set those 6,800 manuscripts right with his vandalised text.
"King James Bible"
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
"Joseph Smith Translated Bible"
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.
Which one is correct the one that is backed up by the Dead Sea Scrolls and Bodmer Papyri? Or the one that strips our LORD and Saviour of deity reducing him to a demigod and the Trinity to a polytheistic orgy?
Revelation 1:
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
What ancient Egyptian Sounlike Like - and how we know
ruclips.net/video/J-K5OjAkiEA/видео.html
The Lost Book of Abraham: Investigating a Remarkable Mormon Claim
ruclips.net/video/hcyzkd_m6KE/видео.html
Elder Holland admission the Book of Abraham doesn't match archaeology evidence.
ruclips.net/video/goRh2amv60A/видео.html
Test of a Prophet: The Bible vs. Joseph Smtih
ruclips.net/video/FrqkaKz_SSg/видео.html
The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon
ruclips.net/video/2AVksae-Frk/видео.html
LDS Mormon Prophet Russell Nelson Book of Mormon Seer Stones & Hat Translation Explained
ruclips.net/video/DG181zFA5YM/видео.html
The binary afterlife is how the olden day prophets spoke. When we die, we go to heaven (paradise) or hell (spirit prison) to wait for resurrection and the last judgement. After final judgement there is mercy for most. The everlasting part of hell is the regret people will feel as a torment. God's mercy and goodness is generous, but it cannot remove that.
Jeff LOVE your videos! Curious - when you read the BOM do you ever think “wow that’s an amazing verse” and then think about it later that week? For example Helaman 5:12 an LDS favorite. You didn’t mention it so I was curious as to what you though about it? As well as other favorite LDS versus. Wondering what your favorite OT and NT versus are and if you’re loving some new BOM too?
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Ex Mormon here Pastor Jeff !!! I appreciate you!! You came into my journey of realizing how I’m saved by Grace & how there are no “rituals” to get you into heaven. You helped me realize how free Gods love is , Jesus is Lord!!!!
It’s a lot of negative, negative, negative. You could use some balance. I had to take a break from the videos. I just tried popping back in. You’re summarizing to an audience that already knows the story. Maybe your approach could be different in future books. I appreciate the trying to understand, but you’re not quite there. It sounds like soft-spoken arguing without touching on interesting/positive points and doctrine. Intellectually you can argue anything.
On the contrary. Listening to him explain what he is reading is a great way to gauge his understanding of the reading. I like to hear his take even though his staunch Protestant stance and “deal breakers” are frustrating.
I don’t mean to be negative saying he is negative. It’s a positive thing in a way what he is doing. I wonder if I said instead, would Pastor Jeff find it interesting for a Jew to read the New Testament for the first time, but present it like “Then there was this Saul character persecuting Christians. I haven’t found any historical accounts of someone with that name putting Christians in jail, but anyway, he falls to the ground, hears a voice speak to him that says he is Jesus. Saul goes blind for a few days, has his sight restored by a man named Ananias…I had to stop here. This sounds pretty scientifically impossible, and I can’t recall any story like this in the Torah…”? Or would it be more interesting to hear a viewpoint like “I’m not sure how I feel about this character who is a strict Jew trying to do the right thing being called evil. I’ll have to think on that. I do like the way Ananias treats Saul. I would think a man of God would do such a thing. It reminds me of this verse…”?
On heliocentrism, most Latter Day Saints believe that the Nephites/Laminates were participating in Mayan civilization along with the surrounding city states. The ancient Maya understood that the Earth and other planets orbited the sun. This is evident by the Mayan venusian calendar which accurately calculated the true orbit of venus long before kepler and gallileo. Some people claim that the maya believed that the earth was the centre of everything however that claim is false and is not backed up by Mayan artefacts. If the ancient Maya truly believed the earth was at the centre, then our ancestors wouldn't have taken the time to calculate the true orbit of venus around the sun.
While the Church doesn't hold an official theory as to where the Book of Mormon took place, if it did happen within Mayan influence, then heliocentrism is the world view that the Nephites would have both had, and used to interpret what parts of the old testament that they had. (For example the sun standing still for Joshua)
Except the Mayan civilization didn't believe in heliocentrism. They believed the Earth was fixed and immovable, and that it lay at the center of the universe. Furthermore they believed the sky was held up by four jaguars, each holding up a single corner of the sky.
That said, they were pretty good at geometry.
At first glance Helaman 12:15 appears to describe heliocentrism, but not at all if you review the scripture in depth, and in context. Back up to the start of Chapter 12 and read through as “The Lord chastens His people” and “The nothingness of men is compared with the power of God”. Our nothingness is declared “less than the dust of the earth” since the dust (which is normally still) will move at the command of God. Hills and mountains (normally still) will tremble and quake or become smooth by His voice. The whole earth (normally still) will shake and the foundations (normally firm) rock by the power of His voice. And IF He tells the earth (normally still) to move, it moves. And IF he tells the earth (normally still) to go back, then it obeys and it then appears to man that the sun (normally rotating above the Earth) stands still…but in that case it is rather the earth (normally still) that God caused to move and not the sun. Continuing, if God says to waters (normally wet) to be dried, it is done. If God tells a mountain (normally fixed) to fall on a city, it is done. But we are less than the dust, for God gives us commands and we fail to obey time and time again. It is a wonder that despite our rebellion and despite our great sin, God loved us enough to die for us so we could be reconciled back to Him!
You asked for more perspective on what he was saying about heaven and hell. I think if you go back to Alma 40 when Alma is talking about the afterlife he shows a good example of ongoing revelation. He brings up some questions he still has, but he teaches some things he has learned. Most of what he learned deals with the spirit world which is the part of the Plan of Salvation that happens between death and the final judgement/resurrection and eventually the kingdoms of glory. A lot of the revelation that we believe about the kingdoms of glory came much later through more modern prophets and it is recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants. As a result I feel like the people in the Book of Mormon are often referring to the spirit world (spirit paradise and spirit prison aka heaven and hell) when they talk about the after life. I wonder if that is what Mormon was referring to in the verses you asked about.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Helaman 12:25-26. To answer your two questions:
a) how to reconcile doctrine of multiple heavens with the binary saved/damned language? 2 Corinthians 12:2. You can have a "third heaven" while still making a distinction between heaven(s) and hell. Both can be true.
b) what is the "everlasting damnation" in these verses? Hell. Also the resurrection of the wicked (Daniel 12:2; John 5:29). Helaman isn't talking about any of the kingdoms of heaven.
You asked for thoughts regarding Helaman 12:26. Here is the way I understand it:
They that have done good shall have everlasting life (eternal exaltation/progression); and they that have done evil (have not repented) she'll have everlasting damnation (a harsh sounding word to our ears but simply means stopped from the privilege of progressing--a Telestial and Terrestrial existence).
Hello again Pastor Jeff! Great video as always. In answer to your question about He 12: 25-26, here it is speaking about the duality of the immediate afterlife, what we call paradise and spirit prison. The reason that the reward is called everlasting life and the punishment is called everlasting damnation is because it is synonymous with using God in that sentence. It can be read and should be understood as saying "They that have done good shall have God's (blessings); and they that have done evil shall have God's (punishments)." This is wonderfully explained in D&C 19: 10-12 -
10. For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore-
11. Eternal punishment is God’s punishment.
12. Endless punishment is God’s punishment.
So this is not referring to the state that we will be in after the final judgement where we are resurrected to one of the degrees of glory, but to the state of our souls as we await resurrection in the Spirit World. Hope this helps, thank you again for your insights and curiosity! I have loved learning more about your beliefs and doctrines.
The bom is a 100% false manmade fraud. It has absolute zero basis in truth or reality. Only the accursed of God are deceived by it. Repent!
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss To make God small is blasphemy.
Proverbs 21:21
Whoever pursues righteousness and love finds life, prosperity and honor.
@@TheDrewStroyer @kasondow
What is Gospel?
John 18:
37Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
God is truth which is Gospel.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
But.......
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
And the heart can deceive.
Jeremiah 17:
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
How can we test the truthfulness of Gospel?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
God makes the Gospel simple and testable for our protection. Things that are different are not the same. True Christianity bares all three witnesses of God (1Father, logos, logic, reasonable) (2Jesus, body, archaeology, tangible) (3Holy Ghost, soul, feeling, spiritual) The truth shall set you free but leaving the Pharaoh is hard since the first step is always the desert.
Mathew 22:
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
What is fiction and why? Joseph Smith's "translated"/defiled Bible along with other made up scripture is in opposition to the truth since the Bible was never lost. 1,000 manuscripts of the Old Testament oldest of which date to the Dead Sea Scrolls year 150 Before Christ. There are 5,800 manuscripts of the New Testament some of the oldest being found in the Bodmer Papyri year Anno Domini 150. Thats right, the oldest New Testament manuscript dates to just 50 years after the Apostles first gave the word and validates the mainline Bibles of today! Unless of course one believes Joseph Smith set those 6,800 manuscripts right with his vandalised text.
"King James Bible"
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
"Joseph Smith Translated Bible"
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.
Which one is correct the one that is backed up by the Dead Sea Scrolls and Bodmer Papyri? Or the one that strips our LORD and Saviour of deity reducing him to a demigod and the Trinity to a polytheistic orgy?
Revelation 1:
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
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Elder Holland admission the Book of Abraham doesn't match archaeology evidence.
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Test of a Prophet: The Bible vs. Joseph Smtih
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The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon
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@@Jozeemoss Looks like my response was deleted for no reason. Sad really. That at least affirms my initial reaction which was to not engage with you in the first place. Have a wonderful day!
So God pouring out His Spirit doesn’t fit into your narrative? Oh well. God can pour out His Spirit on whoever He wants, when He wants, right?
You don't believe that. You have to have the Gift of the Holy Ghost bestowed or granted to you by the laying on of hands, and only after being baptised in the LDS faith.
So no, God can't pour His spirit out on whoever He wants, whenever He wants in LDS theology.
@ 21:18 Thanks for explaining the phenomenological understanding or description of things by prophets. I've often thought of that idea but didn't know it's name. This is what I believe happened when they saw things like dark skin as a curse by God on those who did things like go naked, exposing their skins more to the sun for generations.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Interesting deal breaker moment as it was that kind of relationship that God attempted to establish on mount Sinai with the children of Israel and Moses and they feared it and rejected it.
9:50 the Holy Spirit did touch people before acts 2. Elijah described it as a still small voice that happened after the fire and earthquake etc. All of Israel had had experiences in different dispensations with the Holy Spirit or they would never have been converted to the prophets. The gift of the Holy Ghost is dispensed at various times and even Adam and others practiced the outpouring of the Holy Ghost from time to time.
It was not a constant companion to the believers like you understand in the LDS faith. The comforter is left with believers after the Ascent, permanently.
@@BrendonKing according to evangelical interpretation ☺️
Pastor Jeff you should read the following books "Jesus the Christ" and " A marvelous work and a wonder" both by LDS writers for a more in depth knowledge of Mormon doctrine ❤️
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I see a few things from the Book of Helaman.
First - the spiritual state of the Nephites and Lamanites.
The Nephites became very wicked (4:11-13; 22) whereas the Lamanites became a
righteous people, even exceeding that of the Nephites (6:1). In the 86th year, the
Nephites are still in their great wickedness while the Lamanites strictly observed
the commandments of God (13:1). But with all of this, the skin color of the Nephites
did not become dark and the skin color of the Lamanites did not become white.
Second - signs.
Helaman 14 mentions signs of Christ's birth and death. I couldn't find any signs
mentioned of his resurrection.
I would like to hear you break down the chiasmas in Alma 36. If you know what a chiasmas. Is?
Do you really think Joseph Smith made this up? Maybe you could interview John Welsh at BYU
We will all be judged by the words of God. Wither it is from the stick of Judah, or from the stick of Jesse. The teachings that are in this book help us get closer to God. Another testament of Jesus Christ.
If we tend to rely on our own understanding. we subsequently deny the testifying power of the Holy Ghost. this tendency is set on by Pride in the heart. when we are humble and seek the scriptures with REAL intent, the spirit will reveal the truth of it. I am not discouraged in Pasters Jeff's assessment of the what he calls a "deal breaker" I would advise a different approach to searching the scriptures. I would advise a prayerful mindset while searching scripture. Search... Ponder... and pray.
I'm an active member of the LDS church and I love The Book of Mormon, but I have had complicated thoughts/feelings about it for a couple of years. I love Helaman and 3 Nephi, so I'm excited to listen to your analysis.
I appreciate what pastor Jeff is doing, but it is becoming more apparent to me that his perspective is based purely on the philosophies and understandings of men. While he uses the Bible, his understanding is from the teachings of men.
I am reminded of what we were taught by a living prophet last October:
These incomparable privileges follow those who seek the support of heaven to help them overcome this world. To this end, I extend to members of the entire Church the same charge I gave to our young adults last May. I urged them then-and I plead with you now-to take charge of your own testimony of Jesus Christ and His gospel. Work for it. Nurture it so that it will grow. Feed it truth. Don’t pollute it with false philosophies of unbelieving men and women. As you make the continual strengthening of your testimony of Jesus Christ your highest priority, watch for miracles to happen in your life.
I don’t see this channel as a spiritually nutritious source to build a testimony of the truth. This is an Evangelical learning more about our Church, but not seeking for truth. While it is not all bad, there are a lot of contaminants and pollutants.
If you are struggling with your testimony, I would encourage you to follow the counsel given by James 1:
5If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
I deal breaker? Wait he doesn’t believe any of the prophets before had the spirit of God pour out on them? I don’t understand his logic here at all, kind of silly.
Damnation means a lack of progression. One who is damned is not moving forward, improving themselves, or increasing in any way. As we turn away from God, naturally our progress towards Him reverses.
Joseph Smith once explained hell as a state of mind, wherein one is constantly reminded of their failure to meet their potential as a literal heir and son or daughter of God. All those should've/could've/would've's we've been told to ignore? Yeah, those become impossible to ignore if you choose not to take advantage of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
Ultimately we go where we're comfortable. If we spend our earthly experience striving to be like God & Jesus, we'll naturally want to be with them and feel comfortable around them. If, on the other hand, we scoff at every good thing here, who's to say we'd suddenly change our minds? Alma and Amulek make it pretty clear that who we are (personality, intellect, attitudes) when we die persists in the next world/life.
@23:13 regarding your understanding of Helamen 12 verse 26, The Terrestrial and Telestial kingdoms are not a state of endless misery and everlasting damnation, they are state’s living with ‘a’ member of the Godhead. Everlasting life = to dwell with a member of the Godhead (in a degree of glory) God the Father in the Celestial Kingdom, God the Son in the Terrestrial kingdom or God the Spirit or the Holy Ghost in the Telestial kingdom). Thus, many mansions/rooms in “In my Fathers’ house”..
everlasting damnation= outer darkness (not a kingdom of glory)