HOW TO DIY: MEASURE LS PUSHROD LENGTH-CHEAP & EASY!
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- Опубликовано: 26 фев 2021
- STEP BY STEP-HOW TO-MEASURE LS PUSHROD LENGTH-WHY DO YOU NEED TO MEASURE? WHEN DO YOU NEED TO MEASURE? WHAT CHANGES THE REQUIRED LENGTH? HOW CAN I MEASURE AT HOME WITH NO SPECIAL TOOLS? WHAT CAN GO WRONG IF THE LENGTH IS WRONG? CHECK OUT THIS 10-MINUTE TECH (ACTUALLY 11 MIN OR SO) ON HOW YOU CAN QUICKLY AND EASILY (YOUR FIRST TIME) MEASURE FOR PROPER PUSHROD LENGTH ON YOUR LS!
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Thanks for all the great content Richard, these are very helpful door answering questions I get from customers at the machine shop.
Some of the comments are truly amazing. Thank you Richard. You're a life saver.
Love your content, always learn something despite doing this for decades! Keep up the good work
I love these videos. Sometimes back to basics is great to watch
I am currently rebuilding my L92 and you are helping me a lot. I wish you all the best.
So many people need this info, and have no clue they need it or why they need it or why length may change... Well described for laymen.
I used the old comp cam video with you in it from years ago. Thanks for the videos.
Good tips in every video
You’re the LS 👑
Excellent video! straight forward and don't need an adjustable pushrod.
Thanks Richard! Very informative and needed!
Great content as always Richard! I learned something
thanks man. im from uk and im leasrnign this as i want to venture into the V8 worls and i always wondered about pushrod legnths
all the other videos i seen on this topic sucked very well explained sir thank you
Thank you so much Mr. Holdener. I've spent all day read and watching videos trying to figure this out. Everyone just says tighten till snug and don't explain further. I work construction installing up to 300 pound glass by hand so my grip makes "snug" different. Your video made it so much easier and clear. Wish I would have seen it this morning instead of 9pm. Lol
I'm the same I power lift and do mechanics my snug is a snap
this is a great video. I don't see many on pushrod length
That’s the way I’ve always done it. I have an adjustable push rod to measure and I’ve done both ways and get the same measurement.
Man! I needed this video for my Hemi build! Thank you
Okay . After watching.. maybe not lol
I use the two finger method as well 💪🏻 works very well
cool, video richard. Never seen it done like that before
I actually needed this. Been building up an LR4 as my COVID project, and I'm nearly at the stage for doing this. Thanks Richard.
Dang not bad for two weeks
@@brettcombs774 took a moment to get the joke, I'm definitely stealing that!
Its claimed the 2007 Classic LR4 has gen 4 C-Rods
@@AustinRBa lol I figured someone would clue in.
Excellent video Richard
Your a life saver fam thanks 👍🎉
Great information!!
Great tutorial
good demo doing this now
I've used this method countless times
Thanks for the video
Fantastic....thank you for doing this video..you explain things well and at the perfect pace..so the guy who put 14 -7.5 pushrods in my ls and 2 - 7.4 under the other 2 rockers is wrong...had a brand new cam put in..a good one! And he says cam is different so it's ok to use 14 of one and 2 of other..I just had a bad feeling all the way home....I asked a few guys and they all scratched there heads..i now have to bring engine to machine shop because it just can't be right like this..If anyone knows,you do...thanks
they should all be the same
I use a length checker and go 1 ¼ turns and order that length from the checker pushrod.
IMO stay away from the short travel lifters. They're noisy and you don't need them to go to 8k rpm.
Think i may have given you a little inspiration for this vid on a live stream lol, cheers!
Thanks Richard..!!!
Thanks for this great video. My ls swap wont start and I think the push rods are too long, will be following your step by step procedures and will see how it does. 👍👍
good luck
Great content
Not dealing with this style rocker yet, mine is still apart, this video made it ridiculously easy to check them. Add in a felt tip sharpie to double check contact and I should be golden.
the pattern won't change on an LS like it does with an adj rocker (like BBC or SBC), adjustment is in the pushrod length
Hi Richard, love your work. However, throughout the video, I see that the rocker pedestal (Tray) is upside down. Should it not be the right way up (with the writing not upside down) or doesn't matter?
Thanks once again
Hello Richard! Love your content great information. Currently putting together an early 6.0 with 317 heads. Going with the sloppy stage 3 kit from speedway and nobody can seem to give me even an estimate on what pushrods to order. I’m changing the cam without removing the heads so factory lifters an so on. It’s a very low mileage motor so hoping the lifters will survive. I figured if anyone could give me their recommendations and estimate on what length to go with it would be you. I intend to test them like you did here but I’d hate to have to order 3 different sets just to make sure I have the correct ones on hand lol
THE PUSHROD LENGTH MIGHT NOT CHANGE WITH THAT CAM UNLESS THEY CHANGED THE BASE CIRCLE
I think it would be helpful to explain what the spec should be and how to figure out what size pushrod you actually need
Sorry to be offtopic but does anybody know a trick to log back into an instagram account..?
I was dumb lost my account password. I would appreciate any tricks you can give me!
@Casen Damien Thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and Im in the hacking process atm.
Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
@Casen Damien it did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. Im so happy:D
Thank you so much you really help me out!
@Eric Rogelio Glad I could help =)
Richard you are gifted with boost
This was making me frustrated! Thank you! 👍🏽
Is less than a 1/4 turn not enough????
My engine seems to lack power (in my opinion) and was wondering if maybe the valves arent open "far enough".
Thanks Richard!!
Pretty cool.
I have an L99 camaro just got a cam kit ss1 vvt done by gpi, ill be doing install.. head gasket is .040 and pushrods are 7.400 would that be any issues? Is it because the cam lobes are shorter? it should be fine
This is how I've always measured pushrod length. It's way easier than using the "tool" and trying to get it right. I've used the tool and cost myself a fortune buying different sizes because I was wrong on the length at 100 bucks a pop.
Removing spark plugs, turning motor over to close each valve to loosen the bolts....ain’t nobody got time for that. In the hundreds of times I’ve removed rockers, I’ve never done that and never had threads pull out. I never even considered that. But now I know it, the next time I loosen rockers, it’s gonna pull the threads out. Thanks Richard. Ignorance WAS BLISS. lololololol
More so common practice, on some engines you can't get away with it as easily.
I never do it either and I never will. I’ve pulled 100s of LS rockers with stock and aftermarket springs and never stripped one out. Crack em loose with a ratchet and run em out with a 1/4” impact. Put em in the same way.
Like you said it’ll probably happen to me now though lol
I always enjoy your tech . Not apples to apples but on my Harleys one is a SS 124 the other is a SS 143 and both have some work done to them . I use limiters in the lifters , I wondered if running a bit longer push rod might do that . I have heard that you can used solid lifter roller on hydraulic roller lifter on some high end builds not that I ever had one lol and set the lash pretty close and quiet. I like running solid lifters as I use to try to tune the engine a bit by the lash
16 camaro ss stock cam stock rockers only thing changed out was the trunions (CHE) why my stock fitment change? Need help alot of chatter on idle should I go with a shorter or longer pushrods. pushrod stock length is 7.850 should I go to 7.825 lmk thank you
I watched the entire video. I heard you talk about a safety range for preload. But I did not hear what the safety range actually is for the number of turns.
At the very end he said 1/2 to 1 1/2 turns
@@frankssawdustfactory3872 thanks, I stopped watching about 5 seconds too soon 😅
Hey richard love all your videos.. i have a question on rocker ratio..i run a spec class l/s engine 6.2..can i change to a L/S 7 rocker on the intake side 1.8 ratio can i expect to pick up any power ?? IF so how much appox..
YOU CAN'T DO THAT
Did I miss where you said how much each turn equals length I’m only getting a 1/4 turn on a factory rebuild but probably close to .020 decked between heads and block deck
Thanks dad!
Been doing it like this for years...never had a problem
Just finshed see your video, hear is an improvment to your meathod. The only differance is that you figure out the thread pich. Then after you set the zero lash.
you mark with a paint marker one of the hex sides of the bolt. and a paint mark on the cyl. head. now you start counting number of full turns. remove wrench and then count # of flats of the bolt past the one turn mark.
Hears the math part
since the LS is a modern eng. we know the thread pitch is metric. If the therad pich is 1.5mm then every turn equals a length of 1.5 mm, also each flat past the full turn equals 1/6 of a turn.
using 1.5 mm per turn ÷ 1/6 = [ 1.5 ÷ 6 ] = 0.25 mm per flat.
With your meathod and some math you can get a very close to acurate measurement.
Your fan always...
no need for math my way
Greetings from South America. Richard.. I would like see a Test with BTR Cams, like Stage 1, Stage 2, Truck Norris and "Torque Cam". In my Country, there are lots and lots of Trucks. It would be an incredible Test. Thanks again.
It would be an interesting Test in 6.0 an 6.2 Ls Engines, with V2 BTR Cams.
THE BTR TRUCK CAM TEST VIDS ARE ALREADY UP
It's like he knows what questions I will have...🤔
Zero lash and fingertip tight with a nut driver seem to be two very different settings for me. Once I feel like I have zero lash(lifter, pushrod, rocker, and valve tip all touching) I can still turn the bolt another half turn- full turn, just barely using my two finger tips and the nut driver. 🤷🏻♂️
You're too strong, get her indoors to do it
Great explanation! I see how this works with no special tools, but it looks like it would work even better in concert with an adjustable pushrod, what do you think? Thanks!
lots of different ways
Yes, mathematically you can find the precise length of pushrod using the pushrod length checker. Then knowing your lifter manufacturer's recommended preload, will give you an exact value when integrating that into the equation.
There's a Katech video on youtube showing how to use the tool.
Also, I'm trying to figure out my pushrods.
-2005 lq4
Decked heads(not much came off
-Ls9 flat top pistons
-tsp stage 2 low lift truck cam(112 LSA)
-high performance .550 lift springs
-ls7 style lifter
-stock rocker arms but upgraded to trunions
-brian tooley 7.4 in length pushrods.
Worried that with the head work, the pushrods might be too long. I see on the head that some was shaved off but only a couple spots so I can't imagine it being much? What do you think?
watch the measure your pushrod video-its easy
Video is good to check if you have the wrong size.
Is there a chart for what pushrod lenghts would work if you were spec'ing an engine to build but dont actually have yet? Or is this a find out as you assemble type of part?
If you know the deck height of your block and surface height of the head along with lifter height, a knowledgeable person could calculate what size will work for an application. Personally, I’d only do that if I have a engine at a machine shop already assembling it. They could easily take those measurements and I’d order a set same day, this method or an adjustable pushrod are the easy ways to check once it’s already assembled.
Do more ls nos builds
Question for you i put my motor together and had a noisy valve train in the car dynoed at 320 whp, after doing some digging i had about .160 preload and with your method about 1 1/4 turns. The truck ran pretty good just seemed noisy. I put new pushrods in and my preload is closer to .80 about half a turn with your method. Does this seem about right? Also Do you think it was floating the valves before and have i gained any power?
less preload should not change noise and will not greatly change power
Another awesome vid Professor! How do you translate, let's say.....2.5 turns to bottom out rocker, and ordering the correct pushrod?
Wanting to change 2.5 turns to 1.5 turns equals what length change?
MEASURE THE NUMBER OF TURNS PER INCH ON THE ROCKER BOLT
1 full turn= .079... so I would subtract 80 tho from what you currently have and that should put u at 1.5 turns... remember to check other pushrods or even better all... often I see/hear of 20 thousands difference in lengths... so I split the difference on mine. 1-1/16 turn to 1.5 turns.
What Rod length should I use on a 454 a 6.135 or 6.385 rod with correct piston for each Rod to keep my compression ratio at 10:00 to 1:00 it will be a street and strip driven big block roughly 500 plus horse roughly 550 on the torque would there be any advantage for me to run a longer rod? Maybe you guys could do a segment or show same engine same compression ratio different Rod length and see the difference it makes and how the engine performs
YOU WON'T SEE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE TWO
So am i getting from this to buy a pushrod length set thats longer and shorter then my stock set and see which one turns less seems like a pushrod length checker would be much easier to use
No that's not the point he's just giving examples. If you install the stock 7.4 push rods and you get more than a turn and a half or so they're too long, use common sense to figure out how long. Same thing if you don't have to turn it much.
Imo 1 full turn to a turn and a half is the spot for ls7 lifters, a little more or less will work too.
The difference in this vid between the 7.4 and 7.5 was a full turn, so you could say 1 turn is roughly 0.100 inches. IIrc the travel of a ls7 lifter is 0.170 and anywhere between 0.075 to 0.125 is the sweet spot, roughly. Hydraulic lifters have a little fudge room lol
My 5.3 had 7.385 pushrods stock with the active fuel management. I have since rebuilt the motor and installed a Howard’s rattler cam and am running ls7 lifters. Im running 7.400 inch pushrods now. I did the turn method and as far as I can remember I’m right inside the threshold. Seems to be some ticking in the valve cover after 30k miles. Any thoughts here y’all.
HOW MANY TURNS
Good evening works with sbf stock rockers also.
any bolt down, non adj
Hello. im trying this myself and having some issues. 99 ls1 ls7 lifters, texas speed ls roller rockers. question is , when i snug it for 0 lash and start counting turns to seat it and i am definitely on the backside of the cam and i see the valve spring compressing does that mean the pushrod is too long?
once you get to zero lash-then tighten them-either lifter or the spring will compress
So would push rods being a little to long cause a lifter tick also? I just did a cam in my car and went up to 7.425 since i was told the base circle was smaller but now i have a lifter tick. Its not bad but can hear it in the cab when the radio and ac is off.
longer does not usually cause that
doing heads cam on my ls7. heads are milled .025 with a bar stage 4 v2 cam. 7.800 is the stock length and the length of the hardened pushrods BTR sent with the kit. Seems like I have about 3/4 to a full turn from 0 lash to tight. can the piston touch the valves with too long of a pushrod? thanks!
pushrod length does not change p-v
I have a 2002 4.8 that I have an ls9 cam in it, I’m going to do this measuring method after I get the lift errs pumped up. Does it matter what kind of pushrods you use?
you won't be very happy with that cam in that motor-requires a lot of change to the timing gear, harness to make it work and it will be down on power through most of the curve
what is the safe zone? My engine doesnt start after installing a stage 3 turbo summit racing cam and I have about 1 and 3/4 of a turn to get the bolt tight. Stock ls3 heads, stock pushrod length, stock rocker arms and stock lifters
i would go shorter
How would you determine the number of turns you need if you were using lifters that were not stock LS lifters? What if it is a Morel lifter that recommends 0.060 preload? Clear as mud.
then you need to be spot on with the pushrod length 1/4-1/2 turn
What if I'm using johnson 2110 lifters. I know people set the preload to 35 +/-10
I'm guessing I don't use the same "safety range"? So I'm confused about the preload and length of the pushrods with these lifters.
this method is for stock (std travel) lifters
I recently put my LS LQ4 together with 7.4 p.rods and I only get 3/8 turn to tight. Would dry lifters and fresh engine build cause it to be loose until engine gets some heat in it? Or do I need a 7.425 set of push rods?
they need to have oil
So you no longer use the factory torque spec you just stop when the rocker bottoms out and it’s set? Between.5 and 1.5 turns
22lbs ft is what it takes to set it at the bottom.
It so simple!🙂
Zero lash is taking out the up and down of the push rod correct? What about the turning of push rod ? At what force of trying to turn the push rod is to much ?
YOU ARE SPLITTING HAIRS THERE-AT ZERO LASH, THERE WILL BE NO MOVEMENT AND IT WILL BE DIFFICULT OR IMPOSSIBLE TO ROTATE THE PUSHROD
So, with OEM Rail, OEM Rockers & OEM Fasteners (OEM thread pitch) on OEM Heads on OEM Deck Height....
*From Zero Lash, 1 'turn' of Lash = (roughly) 1/10 of an inch ?* _(2 1/4 turns on the 7.5" vs. 1 1/4 turns on the 7.4")._
How many actual turns does the +/- include for the 'Safe Zone' ? You mentioned 'Safe Lengths' from 7.35 to 7.45 _(for this combo),_ so if 1 turn = 1/10, 1/2 turn should be roughly 5/100 ?
Would this mean that the +/- range would be 2 1/4 turns (7.4) *+/- 1/2 turn* ? So *1 3/4 turn--to--2 3/4 Turns = Safe Range* ? (+ 1/2 turn for 7.35, - 1/2 turn for 7.45 ?).
Would be cool if u did a dyno of stock heads with the rocker boss ported out.
why eliminate the rocker boss?
@@richardholdener1727 It's a really common thing people do when porting factory cathedral port heads in the forums. But their are no dyno numbers of before and after that I could find. Would also see the dyno numbers with the bowl cleaned up and the valve guide boss cleaned up. Basically just some light head work to factory heads that most guys could do in their garage.
HEY DUDE, if im gonna do a cam swap and need to change my springs anyways, how much mor cost am i looking at if i get my heads milled enough to jump compression .5 to maybe even 1.0 more compression
SO like goin from 9.5 % on stock LM7 to 10 .5
whata is a typical head milling like this cost?
so i dont get rookie ripped off ....
is pushrod length only thing to worry about goin from 9.5 to 10.5 compression?
is that doable on87octane or am i lokking at 92 octane?
no on 87, don't mill more than .030, check pushrod length
@richard Holdener
when doing this procedure on a new engine with new lifters, would you soak the lifters/pump them up by hand prior to doing this turn method?
yes-that is one way
@@richardholdener1727 okay cool guy. How about the most efficient/right way? You’re on here to teach/inform people aren’t you?
Hey Richard, gotta 6.0 ls build. Almost done. Put the 243 heads on it shaved .008 to clean them up. Put a stock pushrod in for test and got a solid turn and 1/8th of a turn. So figured stock size was good. Ordered 11/32 thick 7.4 long btr pushrods and I get one full turn and 1/2 turns. But it compresses the spring jist ever so slightly? Best to send it back and get 7.350? Or is that slight spring compression normal
why 11/32? length is fine-make sure your lifters aren't already partially compressed
@Richard Holdener not really sure lol first build and figured one step up might be considered better? Also figured it wouldn't hurt I guess. But thanks for all the info you put on here, has helped tremendously. I guess I can throw them all in, throw a starter on it and do a compression check. If the valves are closed it should hold compression.
If you knew the thread pitch and the rocker ratio you could actually calculate what the length value is from the turns.
1.25 mm per thread is the pitch on the rocker arm bolt
Today I ran a test on the pushrod checker at 7.450 I get half a turn on the preload on 7.475 I get 3/4 of a turn and at 7.5 I get one full turn a preload what pushrod to go with???
ANY OF THOSE WILL WORK
Here's an idea for a video (I didn't see one in your library). Mild-moderate LS cam, LS6 or similar valve springs with stock and then hardened pushrods. Is there any difference below 5500-6000 rpm?
THERE ISN'T
@@richardholdener1727 Figured that would be the case. So is it fair to say that for an LQ4 in my van that I use for towing that if the stock pushrods turn out to be the right length with the new cam installed it's not a necessity to change them?
I have a question 🙋♂️. I have new LS3 crate 6.0. I bought a new cam/springs set. 624/.624 lift pretty much Max lift for valve piston clearance. I have a set of comp cam pro mag roller rockers 1.8. Knowing the 1.8 will give me more lift. How do I compensate the pushrod to give me the same lift as a 1.7. Roller rocker.
you can't change pushrod length and make any change in lift. don't use the 1.8 rockers-use stock. the lift is not what determines p-v clearance-its duration
@@richardholdener1727 thank you.
I just installed new lifters and factory length push rods. Is this method still accurate, or do lifters need to be pressurized first?
THEY NEED OIL
In your older video you said 7.5" pushrods made the most power. Here you say it is outside of the "safe" rage of 1/2 to 1-1/2 turns. What do we do?
THE PUSHROD LENGTH CAN OBVUOUSLY CHANGE FOR DIFFERENT MOTORS, HAS THE BLOCK BEEN DECKED, OR THE HEADS BEEN DECKED, WHAT IS THE DEPTH OF THE LIFTER BEING USED, ETC... THE PUSHROD LENGTHS GIVEN WERE ON THAT MOTOR -YOU MIGHT GET AWAY WITH 2 TURNS (THATS WHY I CALL IT A DANGER ZONE AND NOT A DANGER POINT)
I ordered 7.4’s to go with my BTR Stage 4 v1 truck cam bc everyone said that the stock pushrod length was fine. I then ordered ls7 lifters bc I read they were a better design but now after using this method to check pushrod length I’m getting 1 5/8 to 1 3/4 turns. Should I go with a 7.35 instead? I did not realize that the ls7 lifters cup sets up higher until after I bought them
SEE HOW IT RUNS-THAT IS GETTING CLOSE
@@richardholdener1727 will do thank you
Check out 187 customs video on ls pushrod length. I think both ways are good options.
LOTS OF WAYS TO CHECK
BTR stage 2 cam, LS7 lifters with 7.4” pushrods and my valvetrain is noisey! Do I need longer pushrods? HELP!!!
easy to measure as shown in the video-how many turns past zero lash are you
I'm having a hard time understanding how a 'longer' push rod could take more turns to get to the bottom of the lifter. It would seem that it would bottom out sooner?
more turns to bottom out the rocker on the stand because it is farther away with a longer pushrod
I’m hoping somebody can give me some insight. I got a lq9 I just built out in my f body camaro. Tick stage 3 polluter cam. 799 head with .010 off and .040 head gaskets, pac 660 springs. Got a set of 7.4 pushrods in it. I’m hoping the push rods are to long and not the cam being to big. But the motor will not turn over with the rocker arms tightened down. Any insight? Thanks in advance
p-v clearance? and don't force it
@@richardholdener1727 I really appreciate the reply. I’m measuring pushrods today but I’m guessing it’s piston to valve as well. I appreciate it again you the man keep the great videos coming!!
What is the max vtc for the Skunk2 ultra 1 cams for a stock k20z4?
no idea on p-v for that
richard would too long pushrods also cause a pac 1218 spring to break? its an elgin ss2 cam with summit lifters and stock pushrods
unlikely
thanks for the reply. found out that they are too short. rocker still has movement after being fully tightened
How much does that extra 360° turn equate to pushrod length? [eg: when ordering shorter pushrods]
You can determine that by using the TPI of the bolt, and calculating what one rotation is in distance.
Hey Richard need help. I have a 5 3 with Bryan tooley stage 2 torque cam morel ls7 lifters ls9 head gaskets. This may sound like a dumb question. When I first check the pushrod length I get 1 1/8 turn after zero lash. Then I cycle the engine and recheck it changes I have less turns after zero lash. As of now I got a 1/8 of turn. So am I suppose to rotate the motor are the lifters bleeding out the oil and thats why I am getting differant measurements. Hope this make sense.
you are compressing the lifter and they might not pump back up without oil pressure
So is that normal for them to not pump back up? And bleed out like that?
What would be your best guess for pushrod length?
If I have a 7.400 rod and want another 3/4 turn, what does that equate to rod size? Or what does quarter turn equate to?
try 7.450
@@richardholdener1727 i ordered a set. I'll let you know. Thanks!
Hey brother i got a question what size push rods would i need if i put on a set of 205 trick flow heads and a btr stage 4 cam on a 4.8
you need to measure
@richardholdener1727 10-4 thank you brother for getting back in touch with me