this is polymetric not polyrhythmic. a polyrhythm is two different CONSTANT rates of notes played at varying speeds over the SAME duration. So playing 4 quarter notes evenly spaced on one limb while the other limb is playing 7 quarter notes on the other limb evenly spaced only at a faster tempo.
+Sam Tankersley I was just thinking this half way through, was like "wait a minute!" yeah this is a polymeter not rhythm, which are still cool and I love playing them but it's not polyrhythm.
+Sam Tankersley I agree. He would have to be playing septuplets on one limb and just 4/4 quarter notes on the other. I like to think of this as "7 feel", kind of like triplet feel. I still appreciate this video though, very thoroughly explained and well-performed.
Exactly why people keep putting out this misinformation is highly frustrating. It's a cross rhythmic phrase, only the first note of the 4 phrase and first note of the 7 phrase when heard in isolation can be thought of as a polyrhythm.
These little explanations about the details like why he counts "se" instead of seven and the way he counts with the left foot helps us to really understand how his mind works and how we can really do these more complex lines.
Reading some of these comments is why I choose to only play drums by ear. You guys turn drumming into a redundant numeric unappealing math equation! I much prefer making drumming fun and enjoyable. You guys have fun figuring out whether its 'truly' 7 over 4...I'll keep loving playing drums
-a polymeter is two different time signatures that eventually land on 1 together through a certain number of bars, essentially what this video is talking about the 7/8 pattern eventaully catching up with the 4/4 pattern -a polyrhythm is dividing the same bar by different numbers to create two differnet pulses within the same time signature. i.e a triplet is 3 over 2 because the three notes create a different pulse rather than the two that were there before
I don't play drums, but I've listened to a lot of irregular time signatures and polyrhythms in breakcore. Because of this, I kinda feel like I'm obligated to learn this. Thanks a lot for videos such as this.
Like said in some comments, it's a 4/4 over 7/8 polymeter, not a 4-7 polyrhythm. A x over y polyrhythm means a main pulse of x notes and a "sub-pulse" of y notes in only ONE bar. We should have heard quarter notes over septuplets here (which is much tougher to play...). It's a common mix up but it's kind of a pity to see this on such a channel ;-)
Leaving speed factor aside 4-7 polyrhythm needs 28 time slots and the video is correct. It should be pointed out that this video is about one way to fill the 28 slots. What you call polyrhythm is just another (the simplest/natural maybe). Hard to say which filling schema is tougher.
I'm afraid you're wrong. ;-) If I follow what you said, playing septuplets and playing 7 eighth notes could basically be the same thing (leaving speed factor aside)... which they really aren't... You precisely cannot think with the same number of slots for both rhythmic lines in a real 4o7 PR. That's the snag. While PM is roughly counting and moving accents, PR is far less intuitive. You have to 'play' both to see the huge practical and theoretical difference.
thanks for this comment! i had a septuplet swing stuck in my head this morning and then the 4/4 over 7/8 polymeter jumped into my brain and i couldnt get it out so i spent like an hour teaching myself to play it using hand tapping/vocal riffing but had no idea what a polymeter was and was pulling my brains out for ages trying to figure out wtf it was i was playing, i somehow pen and papered my way into googling "7 against 28 polyrhythm" which came up with this video, and then i heard it in the video and read the comments! learn somethin everyday i guess!
Your explanations have gotten significantly better. In your early videos you tend to go too fast, but you've gotten way better at breaking things down.
To me, franciscusrebro is correct. I think the key concept is if it is cyclic or not. A cyclic polymeter is a polyrhythm. A polymeter may not be cyclic and therefore not be a polyrhythm, as a succession of different time signatures, while a polyrhythm is always a polymeter. For example, here on the whole cycle of 4*7=28 quarter notes, seen as one bar, there will be IN ONE BAR a 7/4 time signature against a 4/4 time signature where the common value is a quarter note for the 7/4 and a septuplet for the 4/4.
I think we can assume that everyone gets that this video is polymetric and not polyrhythmic. That said, playing a true four against seven polyrhythm is not that hard (if I can do it, anyone can). You just have to subdivide your bar into 28 fast (say, sixteenth) notes. The four rhythm plays the first note of every group of seven- that is, 1, 8, 15, and 22. The seven rhythm plays the first note of every group of four- that is, 1, 5, 9, 13, 17, 21, and 25. They come together again on the 29th note, which is the 1 of the next bar. Draw a picture and try it slowly. Sounds complicated, but it's not really. If anyone wants to hear what a fairly complex polymeter (_not_ polyrhythm) sounds like, check out this 12 against 47 piece for double harp: soundcloud.com/scott-wallace-189088488/oops cheers from rainy Vienna, Scott
+Scott Wallace But in your example, you're not really playing 4 AGAINST 7. You're essentially playing continuous 16th notes across a bar of 7 beats...then throwing in a note on every seventh note of those 16th notes. these "thrown in" notes would be four evenly spaced hits along a bar of 7/4. That's also polyMETRIC. If you get to a point where you can play ONLY the seven down beats, and still play 4 evenly spaced notes underneath that, it would be a polyrhythm, and a hard one.(I still can't do it).
lastcupofsorrow1 Depends on what you mean by "really" playing a polyrhythm. I don't play the 16th notes, I just think them, until I can do it without thinking them. But what you say is true, too, : actually, polymetry and polyrhythm are two ends of a spectrum, depending on whether all the subdivisions (in this case 16ths) are present.
What you're describing is also not at all what a poly rhythm is. 4 against 7 is when 7 notes occur in the same period of time as the underlying pulse of 4 beats. It's better to just lock your self into the tempo of a whole note (4 beats) and apply a steady figure of seven in that amount of time. You can also learn the specific relationships between the poly 4 and 7 and count in half notes and use beat 3 of the 4 to align the 7, but the 7 and 4 have two completely out of sync sets of 16th notes so you can't think about it as aligning anything to the series of 7. A 4 against 7 polyrhythm implies that you going to count from the group of 4 (in other words, the majority of the rhythms are 4/4 or 4/8 or multiples) and apply the 7 on top, which would be impossible to internalize or use improvisationally if you tried to think about it as groups of 28 16th notes.
Thanks for this video. Generally I use a Roland 808 and I've been working real hard to actually play my odd signatures on the real drums. I'm not so quick with sticks, I'm a bassist and keyboardist (mostly analog polysynth). I won't use my leg to count, I'd get all bruised up. But you have clarified some hand and limb problems. I've been looking for this very lesson, and no one I know that could help me- has one iota of what I mean. Cause I hate that one and a two and e and all that shit. I don't play my bass for example counting like drum teachers, that'd throw me off my actual notes I'm playing. Thanks again!!! This.
Finally, something challenging from these guys! Sorry if I sound like an arrogant douchebag, but the advanced lessons these guys post are all I really watch for.
@SONORSQ2guy This is awesome feedback. I will definitely talk to our audio engineer and see what we can do. I know that RUclips changes the sound with their system, but maybe there is some more adjusting we can do on the hard files. Thanks!
I'm new to the theory of rhythm. So in this example the kick/snare and the hi hat patterns are different lengths but they divide the beat the same way ie. they are both played in 1/8 notes? How would you express 4 over 7 to mean the kicks/snare and hi hat patterns are the same in length and therefore divide the beat at different tempos. Secondly would it change the tempo of the music if in a song you keep the kick and snare the same throughout but instead of treating it as 7 divisions of a bar of 4 beats you treat it as 7 divisions of a bar of 7 beats. Then the hi hat playing 1/8 notes across 4 beats would slow wouldn't it? Probably doesn't make any sense, but thanks for any help you can give
Then try counting the beat out loud while playing.. In both pulses. Firts to 4 (every seventh 16th) and then to 7 (every fourth sixteenth). Then you'll get a more stable understanding of how the pulses relate to each other.
Dude this was veeeery helpful I really liked the chart form of showing the hits instead of the drum notation at 1:48 I learned it in a second!! I like drum notation for just about everything else but for explaining polyrhythms I think this is an easier way of conveying it to the people who aren't as notation savy as others, awesome lesson!
Wow I did this easily!! Compared to the previous 5/4 polyrhythm!!! Anyway, can u do crazy polyrhythm? Like, each of your limbs is doing a different beat? Maybe left hand at 4, right hand at 7, left foot at 5, right foot at 6? I don't know..... The kick might sound a bit messy....
@drumlessonscom Thanks for responding, maybe Victor can turn the Parallel Compressor channel down a little bit, so those drum tracks breath in a more natural way. RUclips has enough compression. Keep up the great work.
This is a polymeter, since they play separately. Polyrhythms squish one meter into the same space as another, polymeters play two separate time signatures at the same time while not restricting them into the same space.
I also think it is polymetric and not polyrhythmic, but great lesson anyway! But one thing: When you listen to the 7 beat pattern between Bass and Snare (10:46min) with the Ride at 200bpm and then to the same at 260bpm (11:30min) you will notice that the bass drum at count 5 and 6 is played a 16th note earlier than before (like it is still shown in the notes). Sounds still cool, but is a different beat!
Thanks for pointing that out. I was looking for that comment. Would be great to pin this answer or correct the video. I think a beginner will have a hart time to figure out what's going on, when he learns the groove. On the other hand, if one finds out by oneself, that's also a great lesson.
Lets split up a measure into 4 quarter notes at lets say 100 bpm, lets say you want to add another layer consisting of 5 notes. You can use an algorithm known as Metric Modulation to determine what tempo these notes must be at to fit in that bar of four quarter notes. newtempo/oldtempo=#ofnotesinnewmeasure/#ofnotesinoldmeasure so it would become: x/100=5/4 and use algebra to solve x=(5/4)*100 x=1.25*100 x=125 now your tempo for the 5 notes must be 125bpm to fit into that measure of 4
nice video - if you don't mind me offering up a suggestion - I would have liked to have just heard a simple 7 beats on one tom against 4 on another rather than a pattern.
I don't know why you guys are all upset. What he's teaching is technically a polymeter, but if you compress the whole phrasing down into one bar, it becomes a polyrhythm. If you saw the other video on the 4:3 polyrhythm what I'm saying would make a bit more sense. When he was showcasing the 4:3 polyrhythm, he was using 3 bars of 4/4 to explain it. If you just pretend that each beat or count is actually one 16th note, it turns into one bar of 3/4, and in this case, it turns into one bar of 7/4.
my bad. last drunken rant i made about this video's inaccuracies i think i claimed the intro to be in 15/16 were it should have been in 7/8, but i have drunkenly recounted and it seems it is actually in 2 bars of 7/8 and a bar of 15/8, or 29/8 all together. so those of you trying to learn from this video i apologize, but its even weirder than a had thought it to be in the first place. disregard the intro. it is not in 7/8. AND the music thats flashing is still often not what he's actually plaing
When you speed up the groove at 11.20 you change the kick pattern and you aren't playing what it says on the screen? You're playing the latter kick drums on the off 16th notes between the ride line...
@SONORSQ2guy Thanks, I feel the overabundance of compression takes away the dynamics, such as the ghost notes, which are as loud as the back beat IMO. But still great lesson.
Okay, I'm kinda confused. Can any drummer out there clarify this for me? This video is supposed to be about Polyrythms, but I'm hearing people saying it's a polymeter. I looked up the definition of a Polyrythm and it looked different from what he was doing. There were two different beats one using 8th notes and the other 1/4 notes, but the beat repeated itself every measure. In this video both beats seemed to be played using the same kind of beat and repeated after every so measure (at least that's what it seemed like). I'm not a drummer myself, but I do wanna gain knowledge on music theory and how every instrument works when it comes to writing songs. So is this a Polyrythm or polymeter? What is the difference? Finally how are both effectively used when writing a song?
Donnivan Kim In practice both polymeters and polyrhythms are called polyrythms. Not saying that's right, but that's reality. This is indeed a polymeter, and the difference comes mainly from a polymeter being two different times being played along side each other (so in this case a 4/4th and 7/th), while a polyrhythm is two beats that are played at the same time, due to a difference in tempo. Polymeter = two different time signatures where each beat takes the same amount of time, causing overlap. Polyrhythm = two different time signatures where each measure takes the same amount of time, one of the parts just has more notes in it, causing a repeat each measure. In general, what you'll hear the most are polymeters, polyrhythms are much harder than polymeters. The grooves from this video are pretty easy, and and intermediate drummer will be able to play them once they wrap their head around it. Polyrhythms on the other hand, other than the really basic ones require an extremely good sense of time, and are very rare in music. The only place I've ever encountered true polyrhythms in songs are in some progressive metal songs, though rare.
Kind of ridiculous that teachers with this level of production resource are still using incorrect terminology. 4 over 7 is a bit more complicated and would involve stretching 4 beats over the bar of 7. This is simply a 7/8 figure repeating against 4/4.
this is not a polyrhythm but it is a cool pattern. It's merely two layered time signatures. A true polyrhythm wold be playing seven beats within the space of four, this allows for 7/4 to exist within the main pulse of 4/4, allowing two pulses to shift between with common subdivisions of 16ths, triplets etc The space of four could be a phrase of four bars, four eighth notes, four triplet notes etc. Anyway, your beat is still awesome and a rad groove.
I'm writing a song with a part in 7/8 where there are 4th notes on the ride, that's seven 4th notes in 2 bars (looks like ||: . : . : . :|. : . : . : .||) and I was wondering if this kind of things had a name. So, if any drummer knows about this ?
don't want to diss drumlessonscom cause it's a great and useful site, specially in the balance between free and pay access. but this particular video is a bit confusing due to the grid in the beginning of the vid.
Finally at 13 minutes it actually begins to sound musical. Everything before that, albeit complex and dynamic, still sounds very choppy and disorienting. Thanks for the lesson though, it is definitely something worthy of practicing, to develop limb independence. 😃
great video. at 11:18 with your bell alternating pattern and around 12:40 with the HH groove your bass drum actually plays sixteenths instead of eighths. BD should be on counts "5 6" but it sounds like the ands of 4/5. Still sounds cool but not sure if you wanted that. Also, to the guy whining about polyrhythms- if you ever set foot out of America and tried to join a drum circle say in Africa or India and didn't know how to play a polyrhythm, you would be the laughing stock of all time. Polyrhythms are essential as drummers. Sure most people are content with just listening to a drummer play and they don't understand but polyrhythms separate the boys from men. Look up Tool/Danny Carey. Hopefully your ears won't bleed because they're too accustomed to Bieber's beats.
A polymeasure is when a measure is played against other with a different lenght under the same pulse. Because it doesn't fit the notated bar, it keeps "moving across" until it syncs at some point after an specific number of bars (for example: a 3/4 measure "inside" 4/4 bar will sync back after 4 bars of 4/4). On the other hand, a polyrhythm is playing different the subdivisions of the same beat at the same time (another example: on a 4/4 bar, each beat can be played dividing by 2 with one hand, and 3 on the other).
Counting eighth notes without the & of 4 is the same as seven time. Just replace the & with the 1 of the next bar. This just makes it easier for me personally, hopefully this will help someone.
Um, the final transcription is not what he’s playing in the bass drum. There is a syncopated kick - the 3rd kick of the measure is before what’s written. That isn’t a polyrhythm.
why you just dont even rename this video, since is it all WRONG? On the intro demonstration, he is not playing 4:7 polyrhythm, but a groove in 7/8 . The full lesson is a misinformation on what really a 4:7 polyrhythm is. Please, fix it or take it down!
Can you please write the entire beat in a single row, instead of showing every bar? I can't read THAT fast, and I personally find it easier seeing the entire thing while playing new stuff. Great video and great explanations otherwise! Keep 'em coming!
+nenissaK Basically, he's playing a 7/8 beat with the snare and the kick, which means there are 7 eighth notes in a measure, and it loops after counting to seven. But with the right hand, he's keeping quarter notes at a constant pace, playing on the 1, 3, 5, and 7 for the first of every two measures. But because there is no last eighth note in the measure, the pattern continues on to the 2, 4, and 6 of the next measure. While that is going on, the kick and snare still stay on the 7/8 pattern. After that, those two measures repeat: 1234567 1234567 Ride x-x-x-x-x -x-x-x-x-x- Snr: 0 0 0 0 Kck:bb bb bb bb Hope this makes sense
a true 4 over 7 polyRHYTHM would be one bar of 4/4 subdivided into septuplets (7 notes for each quarter note). One part of the polyrhythm would play 4 beats PER MEASURE, and the other part would play 7 beats per measure. If it were a true 7 over 4 polyrhythm, there would be one bar of 7/4 subdivided into sixteenth notes, (4 notes for each quarter note) . One part of the polyrhythm would play 7 beats per measure, and the other would play 4 beats per measure. This vid is an ex. of POLYMETER
Thank you very much for the video. Very good explanation. I already feel my "mental drumming" improving... =P Just messing with you, real good stuff, thanks ;) best wishes from Germany
I don't wanna be that guy, but 11:17 the written beat is not exactly what you're playing in the bass drum. They basically split the eighth note before count 5 and 6. So, a couple sixteenth notes in there. I'm sorry.
this is polymetric not polyrhythmic. a polyrhythm is two different CONSTANT rates of notes played at varying speeds over the SAME duration. So playing 4 quarter notes evenly spaced on one limb while the other limb is playing 7 quarter notes on the other limb evenly spaced only at a faster tempo.
+Sam Tankersley Thanks for that!
+Sam Tankersley I was just thinking this half way through, was like "wait a minute!" yeah this is a polymeter not rhythm, which are still cool and I love playing them but it's not polyrhythm.
+Sam Tankersley I agree. He would have to be playing septuplets on one limb and just 4/4 quarter notes on the other. I like to think of this as "7 feel", kind of like triplet feel. I still appreciate this video though, very thoroughly explained and well-performed.
Exactly why people keep putting out this misinformation is highly frustrating. It's a cross rhythmic phrase, only the first note of the 4 phrase and first note of the 7 phrase when heard in isolation can be thought of as a polyrhythm.
But it is, 14 beats over 4 a septuplets bars
Buts its upside down
So you all thinking fancy to me
These little explanations about the details like why he counts "se" instead of seven and the way he counts with the left foot helps us to really understand how his mind works and how we can really do these more complex lines.
Reading some of these comments is why I choose to only play drums by ear. You guys turn drumming into a redundant numeric unappealing math equation! I much prefer making drumming fun and enjoyable. You guys have fun figuring out whether its 'truly' 7 over 4...I'll keep loving playing drums
these are among my favorite polyrhythmic grooves...if you set it up in a certain way, it gives you this "I'm on the downbeat, I'm on the upbeat" vibe
-a polymeter is two different time signatures that eventually land on 1 together through a certain number of bars, essentially what this video is talking about the 7/8 pattern eventaully catching up with the 4/4 pattern
-a polyrhythm is dividing the same bar by different numbers to create two differnet pulses within the same time signature.
i.e a triplet is 3 over 2 because the three notes create a different pulse rather than the two that were there before
I don't play drums, but I've listened to a lot of irregular time signatures and polyrhythms in breakcore. Because of this, I kinda feel like I'm obligated to learn this.
Thanks a lot for videos such as this.
Like said in some comments, it's a 4/4 over 7/8 polymeter, not a 4-7 polyrhythm.
A x over y polyrhythm means a main pulse of x notes and a "sub-pulse" of y notes in only ONE bar. We should have heard quarter notes over septuplets here (which is much tougher to play...).
It's a common mix up but it's kind of a pity to see this on such a channel ;-)
That's right ;)
Leaving speed factor aside 4-7 polyrhythm needs 28 time slots and the video is correct. It should be pointed out that this video is about one way to fill the 28 slots. What you call polyrhythm is just another (the simplest/natural maybe). Hard to say which filling schema is tougher.
I'm afraid you're wrong. ;-)
If I follow what you said, playing septuplets and playing 7 eighth notes could basically be the same thing (leaving speed factor aside)... which they really aren't...
You precisely cannot think with the same number of slots for both rhythmic lines in a real 4o7 PR. That's the snag.
While PM is roughly counting and moving accents, PR is far less intuitive.
You have to 'play' both to see the huge practical and theoretical difference.
thanks for this comment!
i had a septuplet swing stuck in my head this morning and then the 4/4 over 7/8 polymeter jumped into my brain and i couldnt get it out so i spent like an hour teaching myself to play it using hand tapping/vocal riffing but had no idea what a polymeter was and was pulling my brains out for ages trying to figure out wtf it was i was playing, i somehow pen and papered my way into googling "7 against 28 polyrhythm" which came up with this video, and then i heard it in the video and read the comments!
learn somethin everyday i guess!
@@McBibz aaaaand i just realized your comment was 7 years ago LULW
Although I don't play drums this has really helped me get familiarised with polyrythems. Nice video
Your explanations have gotten significantly better. In your early videos you tend to go too fast, but you've gotten way better at breaking things down.
To me, franciscusrebro is correct. I think the key concept is if it is cyclic or not.
A cyclic polymeter is a polyrhythm. A polymeter may not be cyclic and therefore not be a polyrhythm, as a succession of different time signatures, while a polyrhythm is always a polymeter. For example, here on the whole cycle of 4*7=28 quarter notes, seen as one bar, there will be IN ONE BAR a 7/4 time signature against a 4/4 time signature where the common value is a quarter note for the 7/4 and a septuplet for the 4/4.
I think we can assume that everyone gets that this video is polymetric and not polyrhythmic. That said, playing a true four against seven polyrhythm is not that hard (if I can do it, anyone can). You just have to subdivide your bar into 28 fast (say, sixteenth) notes. The four rhythm plays the first note of every group of seven- that is, 1, 8, 15, and 22. The seven rhythm plays the first note of every group of four- that is, 1, 5, 9, 13, 17, 21, and 25. They come together again on the 29th note, which is the 1 of the next bar.
Draw a picture and try it slowly. Sounds complicated, but it's not really.
If anyone wants to hear what a fairly complex polymeter (_not_ polyrhythm) sounds like, check out this 12 against 47 piece for double harp:
soundcloud.com/scott-wallace-189088488/oops
cheers from rainy Vienna, Scott
+Scott Wallace But in your example, you're not really playing 4 AGAINST 7. You're essentially playing continuous 16th notes across a bar of 7 beats...then throwing in a note on every seventh note of those 16th notes. these "thrown in" notes would be four evenly spaced hits along a bar of 7/4. That's also polyMETRIC. If you get to a point where you can play ONLY the seven down beats, and still play 4 evenly spaced notes underneath that, it would be a polyrhythm, and a hard one.(I still can't do it).
lastcupofsorrow1
Depends on what you mean by "really" playing a polyrhythm. I don't play the 16th notes, I just think them, until I can do it without thinking them.
But what you say is true, too, : actually, polymetry and polyrhythm are two ends of a spectrum, depending on whether all the subdivisions (in this case 16ths) are present.
Your stuff is really good.
ELKWOOD DARROW
Thank you. It's fun. I'm now working on a 16 against 47 polymeter. Will take a while before it's fluent.
What you're describing is also not at all what a poly rhythm is. 4 against 7 is when 7 notes occur in the same period of time as the underlying pulse of 4 beats. It's better to just lock your self into the tempo of a whole note (4 beats) and apply a steady figure of seven in that amount of time. You can also learn the specific relationships between the poly 4 and 7 and count in half notes and use beat 3 of the 4 to align the 7, but the 7 and 4 have two completely out of sync sets of 16th notes so you can't think about it as aligning anything to the series of 7. A 4 against 7 polyrhythm implies that you going to count from the group of 4 (in other words, the majority of the rhythms are 4/4 or 4/8 or multiples) and apply the 7 on top, which would be impossible to internalize or use improvisationally if you tried to think about it as groups of 28 16th notes.
I am a mathematic teacher and ask myselve, if there are also rational rythms like 2.5/4. Or is it just a 5/8 ?
Thanks for this video. Generally I use a Roland 808 and I've been working real hard to actually play my odd signatures on the real drums. I'm not so quick with sticks, I'm a bassist and keyboardist (mostly analog polysynth). I won't use my leg to count, I'd get all bruised up. But you have clarified some hand and limb problems. I've been looking for this very lesson, and no one I know that could help me- has one iota of what I mean. Cause I hate that one and a two and e and all that shit. I don't play my bass for example counting like drum teachers, that'd throw me off my actual notes I'm playing. Thanks again!!! This.
Finally, something challenging from these guys! Sorry if I sound like an arrogant douchebag, but the advanced lessons these guys post are all I really watch for.
@SONORSQ2guy This is awesome feedback. I will definitely talk to our audio engineer and see what we can do. I know that RUclips changes the sound with their system, but maybe there is some more adjusting we can do on the hard files. Thanks!
I'm new to the theory of rhythm. So in this example the kick/snare and the hi hat patterns are different lengths but they divide the beat the same way ie. they are both played in 1/8 notes?
How would you express 4 over 7 to mean the kicks/snare and hi hat patterns are the same in length and therefore divide the beat at different tempos.
Secondly would it change the tempo of the music if in a song you keep the kick and snare the same throughout but instead of treating it as 7 divisions of a bar of 4 beats you treat it as 7 divisions of a bar of 7 beats. Then the hi hat playing 1/8 notes across 4 beats would slow wouldn't it?
Probably doesn't make any sense, but thanks for any help you can give
this dude is a good instructor. super easy to follow.
i'm a guitarist and i find this to be informative, very cool lesson
Thanks so much for all your videos. Very professional. Very helpful. Very well explained. Your polyrhythm videos have helped me heaps.
Then try counting the beat out loud while playing.. In both pulses. Firts to 4 (every seventh 16th) and then to 7 (every fourth sixteenth). Then you'll get a more stable understanding of how the pulses relate to each other.
Dude this was veeeery helpful I really liked the chart form of showing the hits instead of the drum notation at 1:48 I learned it in a second!! I like drum notation for just about everything else but for explaining polyrhythms I think this is an easier way of conveying it to the people who aren't as notation savy as others, awesome lesson!
Wow I did this easily!! Compared to the previous 5/4 polyrhythm!!! Anyway, can u do crazy polyrhythm? Like, each of your limbs is doing a different beat? Maybe left hand at 4, right hand at 7, left foot at 5, right foot at 6? I don't know..... The kick might sound a bit messy....
@drumlessonscom Thanks for responding, maybe Victor can turn the Parallel Compressor channel down a little bit, so those drum tracks breath in a more natural way. RUclips has enough compression. Keep up the great work.
This is a polymeter, since they play separately. Polyrhythms squish one meter into the same space as another, polymeters play two separate time signatures at the same time while not restricting them into the same space.
I also think it is polymetric and not polyrhythmic, but great lesson anyway!
But one thing: When you listen to the 7 beat pattern between Bass and Snare (10:46min) with the Ride at 200bpm and then to the same at 260bpm (11:30min) you will notice that the bass drum at count 5 and 6 is played a 16th note earlier than before (like it is still shown in the notes). Sounds still cool, but is a different beat!
Thanks for pointing that out. I was looking for that comment. Would be great to pin this answer or correct the video.
I think a beginner will have a hart time to figure out what's going on, when he learns the groove. On the other hand, if one finds out by oneself, that's also a great lesson.
Understanding that by definition this is a polymeter, is it still considered a polyrhythm since there are multiple rhythms being played?
Men, your videos had help me a lot!! Thanks and keep on!!
Lets split up a measure into 4 quarter notes at lets say 100 bpm, lets say you want to add another layer consisting of 5 notes. You can use an algorithm known as Metric Modulation to determine what tempo these notes must be at to fit in that bar of four quarter notes. newtempo/oldtempo=#ofnotesinnewmeasure/#ofnotesinoldmeasure
so it would become:
x/100=5/4 and use algebra to solve
x=(5/4)*100
x=1.25*100
x=125
now your tempo for the 5 notes must be 125bpm to fit into that measure of 4
This is a POLYMETER!
Man...that kit looks and sounds AMAZING! ...some uh those chrome/titanium/whatever silver cymbals would really set it off.
Wow... When played completely like at 12:56, its a very cool drum beat!
nice video - if you don't mind me offering up a suggestion - I would have liked to have just heard a simple 7 beats on one tom against 4 on another rather than a pattern.
Those Crush Acrylic drums sound great.
Very cool.Make more of these.
very well explained ! I love it!
greetings from austria !
Dave, your videos are my favourite! Good stuff!
the chart's wrong for the bass drum on the second two things he plays. But sounds cool, good lesson
I just played this, I love it! The only complaint is the sound is way overly compressed! I wish you guys would use less compression.
Is the distinction not merely a matter of scale? Thinking of the time it takes for one meter to catch up to the other as "one giant bar".
@GeneralMillss I agree...Don't worry though, he finally cut his hair and cleaned himself up :) Thanks for your comment! - Jared Falk
Nice drums sound
What is Arttu Wiskari doing behind the kit?
i m not getting the stuff sheet on the above link it shows page not found ,, will you help me out,
I don't know why you guys are all upset. What he's teaching is technically a polymeter, but if you compress the whole phrasing down into one bar, it becomes a polyrhythm. If you saw the other video on the 4:3 polyrhythm what I'm saying would make a bit more sense.
When he was showcasing the 4:3 polyrhythm, he was using 3 bars of 4/4 to explain it. If you just pretend that each beat or count is actually one 16th note, it turns into one bar of 3/4, and in this case, it turns into one bar of 7/4.
my bad. last drunken rant i made about this video's inaccuracies i think i claimed the intro to be in 15/16 were it should have been in 7/8, but i have drunkenly recounted and it seems it is actually in 2 bars of 7/8 and a bar of 15/8, or 29/8 all together. so those of you trying to learn from this video i apologize, but its even weirder than a had thought it to be in the first place. disregard the intro. it is not in 7/8. AND the music thats flashing is still often not what he's actually plaing
Awesome lesson!
What are these drumshells made of?
So awesome. Thanks for being so clear!
When you speed up the groove at 11.20 you change the kick pattern and you aren't playing what it says on the screen? You're playing the latter kick drums on the off 16th notes between the ride line...
Do they sell Casey drums at guitar center?
Took me a little bit to get down, I love this video!
4/4 over 7/4 Sounds pretty good to me. Almost a nice offbeat/djent style beat.
Awesome drum kit in the video! it looks like its made out of glass!
@SONORSQ2guy Thanks, I feel the overabundance of compression takes away the dynamics, such as the ghost notes, which are as loud as the back beat IMO. But still great lesson.
First of all freaking awesome kit. SecOnd that's not even possible
Okay, I'm kinda confused. Can any drummer out there clarify this for me? This video is supposed to be about Polyrythms, but I'm hearing people saying it's a polymeter. I looked up the definition of a Polyrythm and it looked different from what he was doing. There were two different beats one using 8th notes and the other 1/4 notes, but the beat repeated itself every measure. In this video both beats seemed to be played using the same kind of beat and repeated after every so measure (at least that's what it seemed like). I'm not a drummer myself, but I do wanna gain knowledge on music theory and how every instrument works when it comes to writing songs. So is this a Polyrythm or polymeter? What is the difference? Finally how are both effectively used when writing a song?
Donnivan Kim In practice both polymeters and polyrhythms are called polyrythms. Not saying that's right, but that's reality.
This is indeed a polymeter, and the difference comes mainly from a polymeter being two different times being played along side each other (so in this case a 4/4th and 7/th), while a polyrhythm is two beats that are played at the same time, due to a difference in tempo.
Polymeter = two different time signatures where each beat takes the same amount of time, causing overlap.
Polyrhythm = two different time signatures where each measure takes the same amount of time, one of the parts just has more notes in it, causing a repeat each measure.
In general, what you'll hear the most are polymeters, polyrhythms are much harder than polymeters. The grooves from this video are pretty easy, and and intermediate drummer will be able to play them once they wrap their head around it. Polyrhythms on the other hand, other than the really basic ones require an extremely good sense of time, and are very rare in music.
The only place I've ever encountered true polyrhythms in songs are in some progressive metal songs, though rare.
Kind of ridiculous that teachers with this level of production resource are still using incorrect terminology. 4 over 7 is a bit more complicated and would involve stretching 4 beats over the bar of 7. This is simply a 7/8 figure repeating against 4/4.
SERIOUSLY nobody understands polyrhythms
I was saying the same thing.
YOURE RIGHT
this is not a polyrhythm but it is a cool pattern. It's merely two layered time signatures. A true polyrhythm wold be playing seven beats within the space of four, this allows for 7/4 to exist within the main pulse of 4/4, allowing two pulses to shift between with common subdivisions of 16ths, triplets etc The space of four could be a phrase of four bars, four eighth notes, four triplet notes etc. Anyway, your beat is still awesome and a rad groove.
I'm writing a song with a part in 7/8 where there are 4th notes on the ride, that's seven 4th notes in 2 bars (looks like ||: . : . : . :|. : . : . : .||) and I was wondering if this kind of things had a name. So, if any drummer knows about this ?
god,the sound of the entire drum set...
good lesson well explained
my fave so far. lovin' these!!!! ahhhh!!!
to skip the prelude, start at 3:08. And to echo other comments that this isn't polyrhythm but polymeter, they're right, although this is still cool.
Cool! I get it now!
nice beat at the end
Checking wikipedia: Isn't this more of a polymeter rather than a polyrhythm?
don't want to diss drumlessonscom cause it's a great and useful site, specially in the balance between free and pay access. but this particular video is a bit confusing due to the grid in the beginning of the vid.
The 11:14 pattern is different from the previous one, it's still 7/8, only not the same partition of notes.
9:00: maps by the yeah yeah yeahs
Nope.. Not a Polyrhythm. Nice bloopers though ..lol
heyyy man ... thanks alot... you really helped me
Finally at 13 minutes it actually begins to sound musical. Everything before that, albeit complex and dynamic, still sounds very choppy and disorienting. Thanks for the lesson though, it is definitely something worthy of practicing, to develop limb independence. 😃
thanks a lot guys!!
great video. at 11:18 with your bell alternating pattern and around 12:40 with the HH groove your bass drum actually plays sixteenths instead of eighths. BD should be on counts "5 6" but it sounds like the ands of 4/5. Still sounds cool but not sure if you wanted that. Also, to the guy whining about polyrhythms- if you ever set foot out of America and tried to join a drum circle say in Africa or India and didn't know how to play a polyrhythm, you would be the laughing stock of all time. Polyrhythms are essential as drummers. Sure most people are content with just listening to a drummer play and they don't understand but polyrhythms separate the boys from men. Look up Tool/Danny Carey. Hopefully your ears won't bleed because they're too accustomed to Bieber's beats.
good comment.
can someone explain the difference between polymetric and polyrhythmic? i could google it but i'll let you show of your knowledge
A polymeasure is when a measure is played against other with a different lenght under the same pulse. Because it doesn't fit the notated bar, it keeps "moving across" until it syncs at some point after an specific number of bars (for example: a 3/4 measure "inside" 4/4 bar will sync back after 4 bars of 4/4).
On the other hand, a polyrhythm is playing different the subdivisions of the same beat at the same time (another example: on a 4/4 bar, each beat can be played dividing by 2 with one hand, and 3 on the other).
Awer Tyuiop Thanks a lot! So i'm guessing polyrhythms must be easyer to play, right?
***** At least, most of time. You just need a very good coordination to not confuse yourself. 😅
Awer Tyuiop truth is i'm just just asking 'cause i'm curious. I'm a bassist not a drumer 😁
***** Neither I. I'm a guitar player lol
I don't get it, what is this use for? Jazz? Or stuff? Can anybody tell me :)
It's used for anything you want. It's a drum loop
enchantrand-esque Oh yeah I got it, thanks :)
+Rizkita Milenia marine corps music
3:08 why you playin on your legs with that kit in front of you?
i wish i can do that. but it is difficult. u r awsome thanks alot
He's just playing a beat in 7/8
James Torres 4/7 isn't a time signature...so yeah. He says he's playing a 4 over 7 polyrhythm when he's just playing A rhythm in 7/8.
4/7 is a time signature look it up smarta$$
7/4 is a time signature. 4/7 isn't a time signature
did you even look it up? i bet u didnt cuz ur wrong
4/7 isn't a time signature. There's no such thing as a 7th note.
would this not be a polymeter not a polyrhythm?
Counting eighth notes without the & of 4 is the same as seven time. Just replace the & with the 1 of the next bar. This just makes it easier for me personally, hopefully this will help someone.
6:30 Did he speed up there?
Um, the final transcription is not what he’s playing in the bass drum. There is a syncopated kick - the 3rd kick of the measure is before what’s written. That isn’t a polyrhythm.
why you just dont even rename this video, since is it all WRONG? On the intro demonstration, he is not playing 4:7 polyrhythm, but a groove in 7/8 . The full lesson is a misinformation on what really a 4:7 polyrhythm is. Please, fix it or take it down!
Can you please write the entire beat in a single row, instead of showing every bar?
I can't read THAT fast, and I personally find it easier seeing the entire thing while playing new stuff.
Great video and great explanations otherwise! Keep 'em coming!
I understand everything but 9:32 can someone please explain?? thank you :)
+nenissaK Basically, he's playing a 7/8 beat with the snare and the kick, which means there are 7 eighth notes in a measure, and it loops after counting to seven. But with the right hand, he's keeping quarter notes at a constant pace, playing on the 1, 3, 5, and 7 for the first of every two measures. But because there is no last eighth note in the measure, the pattern continues on to the 2, 4, and 6 of the next measure. While that is going on, the kick and snare still stay on the 7/8 pattern. After that, those two measures repeat:
1234567 1234567
Ride x-x-x-x-x -x-x-x-x-x-
Snr: 0 0 0 0
Kck:bb bb bb bb
Hope this makes sense
Jack Riley
It was a joke about the quarter note beat but thanks anyway :p
you are correct.
Well .. at 11:17 he's not playing what's written, you can clearly hear the bass drum falling beetween the eights notes .
nice drum set.:)
Dave, you are a fabulous teacher.
Thank you for this lesson.
i think the number seven is the bane of all drummers. i have had the same issue for years
a true 4 over 7 polyRHYTHM would be one bar of 4/4 subdivided into septuplets (7 notes for each quarter note). One part of the polyrhythm would play 4 beats PER MEASURE, and the other part would play 7 beats per measure.
If it were a true 7 over 4 polyrhythm, there would be one bar of 7/4 subdivided into sixteenth notes, (4 notes for each quarter note) . One part of the polyrhythm would play 7 beats per measure, and the other would play 4 beats per measure.
This vid is an ex. of POLYMETER
Dam I got so exited that I was about to find a methodical way of working out that insane polyrhythm but no luck :(
Thank you very much for the video. Very good explanation.
I already feel my "mental drumming" improving... =P
Just messing with you, real good stuff, thanks ;)
best wishes from Germany
Reminds me of My Frailty by After the Burial.
I don't wanna be that guy, but 11:17 the written beat is not exactly what you're playing in the bass drum. They basically split the eighth note before count 5 and 6. So, a couple sixteenth notes in there.
I'm sorry.
Gabriel Durand-Hollis Yup. I heard that too. He should play what he writes or write what he's playin. I'm just sayin.
love it
Great!
this is...
what?
why you try to teach polymeters...
my brain hurts