I’ve always been heavier than average and haven’t experienced said “shaming” especially in a community that celebrates everything from twinks to otters to bears and whatever else. There’s someone out there for everyone.
I know what you mean! I feel like a lot of our community is actually a lot more accepting than what we’re made out to be, especially online. I love our community 🐻❄️🏳️🌈
@@WynterFyre uh you mean like millions of us already do? I don’t tolerate bigger guys, I prefer them myself. And Aside from apps, There’s literally leather bear bars, sports bars, etc full of all types of men. not everyone is chasing twinks nor is that even the narrative. I’ve been rejected for being too in shape and for not being a twink. It’s just preference. If you’re into chiseled muscle men, go for it. I’m not sure what your hang ups or reservations are lol. Relax and live your life man.
What an impactful episode! It's left me pondering whether things are truly on an upward trajectory. Consider the passengers on Atlantis cruises, eagerly embarking on their journey but perhaps feeling the pressure to conform to certain beauty standards, leading some to resort to extreme measures like starving themselves beforehand. Similarly, envision the Puerto Vallarta visitors, looking for the perfect tan before their vacation, turning to artificial methods like tanning beds or spray tans. It becomes clear that there's a great deal of unlearning that needs to take place. Thank you for shedding light on these issues and for prompting us to heighten our awareness of the subtle yet significant ways in which societal pressures can impact our lives.
That’s your experience. Many have felt body shaming. In fact, it’s quite common in the community, and the trite adage you’re using doesn’t debunk that.
60+ yrs ago, i went through the acne thing like Matt. My problem went from forehead to my ass cheeks front and back. I wouldn't take off my shirt..ever. Finally, at about age 19, it seemed to start to get better. To this day, at age 79, I look like a scarred burn victim. Maturity has made me accept the scars as part of who I am. I wept listening to Matt talk about his experiences. I had the same thing from my peers, but when and adult once said, " what the hell is wrong with your face," i was devastated. Forget your scars, Matt! They are just part of your life's journey.❤
I can agree I experience some body shaming, but I don't know if it's necessarily a gay thing rather than just a human condition. Similar to what is briefly mentioned in the video, a number of us (gay and straight) are going to Mexico in a month and everyone's crash dieting because they feel like they'll look terrible in a swimming suit! I do see body shaming in our community in re: to penis size, and I think it's because our culture is so often dependent on porn and sex. Until we start focusing more on the "inner" rather than the superficial "outer," (that includes ageism, too), it's not going to change.
I think if anything, gays are way more accepting. Look how long bears and twinks and all different types have been celebrated? I’m a big guy and I can honestly say LGBT people are far more accepting and welcoming.
Agree minus the ageism. At least in my experience, older men have always been highly revered even in media with less judgement compared to straight folks who many still commonly go for older
@@kaymillerfromTX Older gay men are ostracized by much of the gay community because they no longer fit the young and beautiful stereotype so many gay men want.
So many good ideas explored! As Reno says, I treat my body in a healthy way because I care about myself and health as I change - I'm doing it for others. Also, the notion of shining a light on shame can help get healthy discussion going and hopefully a satisfying consensus. Michael's mention of spending our social media currency on things we really are interested in is a very refreshing perspective. And surrounding oneself with others who appreciates them seems totally aligned with a healthy perspective. Finally, Matt is so right about being pulled down into a crab bucket. I've heard a philosophy expressed that rather than get down to lower levels, strive to lift yourself, and others, up.
Only speaking for my city/age group but I actually remember when many straight folks (not just ladies, though mostly) went to gay bars to chill and not feel judgement so I can’t say this is something I relate to but it seems “gay spaces” these days aren’t what I grew up at all.
Most of us have this one way or another, but as it was very well explained, it also depends on ourselves to try to improve it, even though it’s a constant process. We must learn to be kind to ourselves, and not perpetuate it! Shaming others because of their looks is so pathetic, empty, petty and stupid… I honestly feel sorry for them. I can’t say I have not said NO to people attractive to me that I haven’t been attracted to, but I also think I have given the opportunity to many guys that don’t fit in the standard western beauty standards. Hope this episode inspires many people out there!
I tried to fit in but im not enough motivated to built a "perfect" body or go to the "scene". Now im trying to find other gay men who want to be authentic. Fitting in is not my thing anymore being authentic is. When i was young i never wanted to be photographed. Looking back on my life i was ashamed to be myself. Now im getting more myself every day.
@Matt, as a fellow sufferer of cystic acne, I highly recommend emu oil (Pro Emu). Yes, emu oil is truly a thing. Make sure its Pro or other 100% brand. It should be like the color of jiz. (no joke) I have scars on temples and across top of back and down center of back. Won't make the scars fully disappear but lessons greatly. Takes a few months and you'll think nothing is happening, then one day you'll be like whoa. From YA to in my 40's I had acne issues. Zinc deficient only to find out later from doing my own health research. Both parents had acne issues, as did my older 2 brothers. I got the turbo version. Great podcast. Totally relate. I had 2 older bros and I was the runt of the litter. Could always count my ribs and still can. I recall being with a date on a beach in FL and someone said not directly to me of course, but loud enough for me and my date to hear, that I should put my shirt back on. That was the one and only time I attempted to go sans shirt. I had committed a trifecta; thin, pale and scarred. Arms are spindly so I'm more alluring with some clothes still on unless the lights are down low. haha Yet I had great legs when I was young. A mismatch. Parts...
Very important topic. Sadly, I think there isn’t really a way out of this on a societal level. What I find striking: if you’re interested in “average” people you barely find anything in online porn. It’s always these categories. People are either hunks or chubbies. And there isn’t much in between. That’s sad. The older I get, the more attractive I find “normal” people and the more I prefer charisma over trained bodies.
Agreed, it's a complex issue. It's interesting you mentioned the portrayal of people in media. We think there's definitely a disconnect between the diversity of real life and what's often represented. We appreciate your perspective on the value of 'normal' and charisma.❤
We're sorry to hear that you had to experience that kind of narrow-mindedness. Everyone deserves to be valued for who they are, not judged based on superficial criteria. You're deserving of someone who appreciates you for your uniqueness and treats you with respect.🥰🌈
I think one thing you miss out in the history lesson is the HIV crisis. In times we knew little about the Virus, many seem to have tried to look healthy to the extreme to ensure to everyone around they couldn't be infected. I guess it took the complete 90s to overcome that, but ever since I feel the "plastic faction" has lost ground to all other body and age types. I've come to the point where I noticed so many gay men have daddy issues - and as a gay man in my mid 40s I've been called daddy by the 20somethings and found some hot as hell daddies in their 60s - I'm not only happy now but also have a perspective for at least 20 years to come, likely more.
This is agreeable! The HIV crisis profoundly impacted perceptions of health and appearance within the 🌈 community. It's heartening to hear how you've found happiness and perspective amidst these challenges, embracing diverse body types and ages in your journey. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!💕
Mr D seems to be promoting making people uncomfortable as a virtue, which leads very easily the way of Louisa Musgrove. And a message on increasing diversity is all well and good but at best only half-complete without knowing where to draw the line. The Diversify! message unchecked will inevitably lead to shame over avoiding female bodies or women.
I always tell myself my body does everything I want and need it to do and start appreciating it a lot more. That’ll shake off any potential body shame for me. I also love my tattoos and made me feel so much more confident in my body
Nací con parálisis cerebral, que es un defecto de nacimiento. Cuando era pequeña siempre me recordaban que debía cerrar la boca para no babearme. Y como Michael se refería a nunca estar sin camisa, pero tengo parientes con barriguitas grandes y mi abuela era feliz con los niños grandes. cuando estaba confinado mentalmente me asignaban psicofármacos como litio y haldol y cosas así y teníamos muy poco espacio para ejercitarnos mental y físicamente entonces comencé a ganar peso de los 18 a los 25 y ahora que tengo 55 años. He ganado más peso por lo que me cuesta más perder peso así que dejé de preocuparme por lo que otras personas pensaran de mí.
Perfect episode. Matt you had sone gold at the end with the looking for evidence … I also loved Michael encouraging people to just express themselves even if it makes others uncomfortable… and Reno yes always to more compassionate curiosity! Thank you fellas!!!
Enjoyed this episode. Definitely feel a lot of body shame in my life. I still hate taking a photo and I constantly rip myself apart as a “joke” for others. That being said Matt and Michael sure do love being naked. 😂❤
10:58 😮4:21 I dated in the 90s boyfriends and all. Im a bottom and still got shamed, humiliated and bullied for being on the smaller side. By the late 90s I stopped dating forever. I got the message loud and clear . I basically got kicked out of the gay community
❤PPL always love PPL that love themselves. ❤ You WILL find your tribe.👌👌 We all will👍💪😎I think that we are ALL BEAUTIFUL when we walk in love. 💪💪💪💪💪we are not for everyone. 😎
I’ve always been heavier than average and haven’t experienced said “shaming” especially in a community that celebrates everything from twinks to otters to bears and whatever else. There’s someone out there for everyone.
I know what you mean! I feel like a lot of our community is actually a lot more accepting than what we’re made out to be, especially online. I love our community 🐻❄️🏳️🌈
@@WynterFyre uh you mean like millions of us already do? I don’t tolerate bigger guys, I prefer them myself. And Aside from apps, There’s literally leather bear bars, sports bars, etc full of all types of men. not everyone is chasing twinks nor is that even the narrative. I’ve been rejected for being too in shape and for not being a twink. It’s just preference. If you’re into chiseled muscle men, go for it. I’m not sure what your hang ups or reservations are lol. Relax and live your life man.
What an impactful episode! It's left me pondering whether things are truly on an upward trajectory. Consider the passengers on Atlantis cruises, eagerly embarking on their journey but perhaps feeling the pressure to conform to certain beauty standards, leading some to resort to extreme measures like starving themselves beforehand. Similarly, envision the Puerto Vallarta visitors, looking for the perfect tan before their vacation, turning to artificial methods like tanning beds or spray tans.
It becomes clear that there's a great deal of unlearning that needs to take place. Thank you for shedding light on these issues and for prompting us to heighten our awareness of the subtle yet significant ways in which societal pressures can impact our lives.
So true. Shame comes from within, and is then projected out.
That’s your experience. Many have felt body shaming. In fact, it’s quite common in the community, and the trite adage you’re using doesn’t debunk that.
60+ yrs ago, i went through the acne thing like Matt. My problem went from forehead to my ass cheeks front and back. I wouldn't take off my shirt..ever. Finally, at about age 19, it seemed to start to get better. To this day, at age 79, I look like a scarred burn victim. Maturity has made me accept the scars as part of who I am. I wept listening to Matt talk about his experiences. I had the same thing from my peers, but when and adult once said, " what the hell is wrong with your face," i was devastated. Forget your scars, Matt! They are just part of your life's journey.❤
Your kind words made my day 😊
Thank you for sharing your experience as well, I really resonated with it 💖
~ Matt
I can agree I experience some body shaming, but I don't know if it's necessarily a gay thing rather than just a human condition. Similar to what is briefly mentioned in the video, a number of us (gay and straight) are going to Mexico in a month and everyone's crash dieting because they feel like they'll look terrible in a swimming suit! I do see body shaming in our community in re: to penis size, and I think it's because our culture is so often dependent on porn and sex. Until we start focusing more on the "inner" rather than the superficial "outer," (that includes ageism, too), it's not going to change.
I think if anything, gays are way more accepting. Look how long bears and twinks and all different types have been celebrated? I’m a big guy and I can honestly say LGBT people are far more accepting and welcoming.
Agree minus the ageism. At least in my experience, older men have always been highly revered even in media with less judgement compared to straight folks who many still commonly go for older
@@kaymillerfromTX Older gay men are ostracized by much of the gay community because they no longer fit the young and beautiful stereotype so many gay men want.
So many good ideas explored! As Reno says, I treat my body in a healthy way because I care about myself and health as I change - I'm doing it for others. Also, the notion of shining a light on shame can help get healthy discussion going and hopefully a satisfying consensus. Michael's mention of spending our social media currency on things we really are interested in is a very refreshing perspective. And surrounding oneself with others who appreciates them seems totally aligned with a healthy perspective. Finally, Matt is so right about being pulled down into a crab bucket. I've heard a philosophy expressed that rather than get down to lower levels, strive to lift yourself, and others, up.
Thank you for sharing your experience 🙏 We appreciate hearing how you experienced the episode
Only speaking for my city/age group but I actually remember when many straight folks (not just ladies, though mostly) went to gay bars to chill and not feel judgement so I can’t say this is something I relate to but it seems “gay spaces” these days aren’t what I grew up at all.
Thank you for sharing your experience 🙏
Most of us have this one way or another, but as it was very well explained, it also depends on ourselves to try to improve it, even though it’s a constant process. We must learn to be kind to ourselves, and not perpetuate it! Shaming others because of their looks is so pathetic, empty, petty and stupid… I honestly feel sorry for them. I can’t say I have not said NO to people attractive to me that I haven’t been attracted to, but I also think I have given the opportunity to many guys that don’t fit in the standard western beauty standards. Hope this episode inspires many people out there!
We feel resonance with your share 😊 Thank you for always being such a great contributor to our comment section. We appreciate you Gabe!
I tried to fit in but im not enough motivated to built a "perfect" body or go to the "scene". Now im trying to find other gay men who want to be
authentic. Fitting in is not my thing anymore being authentic is. When i was young i never wanted to be photographed. Looking back on my life i was ashamed to be myself. Now im getting more myself every day.
Don't give up, you're doing amazing! 💪
@Matt, as a fellow sufferer of cystic acne, I highly recommend emu oil (Pro Emu). Yes, emu oil is truly a thing. Make sure its Pro or other 100% brand. It should be like the color of jiz. (no joke) I have scars on temples and across top of back and down center of back. Won't make the scars fully disappear but lessons greatly. Takes a few months and you'll think nothing is happening, then one day you'll be like whoa. From YA to in my 40's I had acne issues. Zinc deficient only to find out later from doing my own health research. Both parents had acne issues, as did my older 2 brothers. I got the turbo version.
Great podcast. Totally relate. I had 2 older bros and I was the runt of the litter. Could always count my ribs and still can. I recall being with a date on a beach in FL and someone said not directly to me of course, but loud enough for me and my date to hear, that I should put my shirt back on. That was the one and only time I attempted to go sans shirt. I had committed a trifecta; thin, pale and scarred. Arms are spindly so I'm more alluring with some clothes still on unless the lights are down low. haha Yet I had great legs when I was young. A mismatch. Parts...
Thank you for this suggestion, I appreciate it :) Also thank you for sharing your experience as well
~ Matt
@@GayMenGoingDeeper I find it odorless and doesn't stain anything. Skin will appreciate it. =>
Very important topic. Sadly, I think there isn’t really a way out of this on a societal level.
What I find striking: if you’re interested in “average” people you barely find anything in online porn. It’s always these categories. People are either hunks or chubbies. And there isn’t much in between. That’s sad. The older I get, the more attractive I find “normal” people and the more I prefer charisma over trained bodies.
Agreed, it's a complex issue. It's interesting you mentioned the portrayal of people in media. We think there's definitely a disconnect between the diversity of real life and what's often represented. We appreciate your perspective on the value of 'normal' and charisma.❤
I literally had someone tell me he only dates or hooks up with skinny guys.
We're sorry to hear that you had to experience that kind of narrow-mindedness. Everyone deserves to be valued for who they are, not judged based on superficial criteria. You're deserving of someone who appreciates you for your uniqueness and treats you with respect.🥰🌈
I think one thing you miss out in the history lesson is the HIV crisis. In times we knew little about the Virus, many seem to have tried to look healthy to the extreme to ensure to everyone around they couldn't be infected. I guess it took the complete 90s to overcome that, but ever since I feel the "plastic faction" has lost ground to all other body and age types. I've come to the point where I noticed so many gay men have daddy issues - and as a gay man in my mid 40s I've been called daddy by the 20somethings and found some hot as hell daddies in their 60s - I'm not only happy now but also have a perspective for at least 20 years to come, likely more.
This is agreeable! The HIV crisis profoundly impacted perceptions of health and appearance within the 🌈 community. It's heartening to hear how you've found happiness and perspective amidst these challenges, embracing diverse body types and ages in your journey. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!💕
You guys can bring Pastor Brandan Robertson on your show sometime.
gay men love hunks!!! but big men deserve respect & their bag too!!! i’m in
Mr D seems to be promoting making people uncomfortable as a virtue, which leads very easily the way of Louisa Musgrove. And a message on increasing diversity is all well and good but at best only half-complete without knowing where to draw the line. The Diversify! message unchecked will inevitably lead to shame over avoiding female bodies or women.
This was a great episode. I really appreciate you all discussing this topic.
We really appreciate your support 🙏
I always tell myself my body does everything I want and need it to do and start appreciating it a lot more. That’ll shake off any potential body shame for me. I also love my tattoos and made me feel so much more confident in my body
Your positivity is contagious! Keep shining. ✨
Nací con parálisis cerebral, que es un defecto de nacimiento. Cuando era pequeña siempre me recordaban que debía cerrar la boca para no babearme. Y como Michael se refería a nunca estar sin camisa, pero tengo parientes con barriguitas grandes y mi abuela era feliz con los niños grandes. cuando estaba confinado mentalmente me asignaban psicofármacos como litio y haldol y cosas así y teníamos muy poco espacio para ejercitarnos mental y físicamente entonces comencé a ganar peso de los 18 a los 25 y ahora que tengo 55 años. He ganado más peso por lo que me cuesta más perder peso así que dejé de preocuparme por lo que otras personas pensaran de mí.
Perfect episode. Matt you had sone gold at the end with the looking for evidence … I also loved Michael encouraging people to just express themselves even if it makes others uncomfortable… and Reno yes always to more compassionate curiosity! Thank you fellas!!!
we appreciate hearing how you experienced the episode 🤝
important issue to adress
Enjoyed this episode. Definitely feel a lot of body shame in my life. I still hate taking a photo and I constantly rip myself apart as a “joke” for others. That being said Matt and Michael sure do love being naked. 😂❤
This is a challenging thing to face but it seems like your willing to face it. Don't give up! 💪 and yes, we like being naked ;)
Gay men together forever 🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
Thank you for spreading such wonderful positivity. I see you on so many videos with this message of love. Gay men together, forever 🐻❄️💛🏳️🌈
@@Seanster96 Love you my dear Gay mates ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜
10:58 😮4:21 I dated in the 90s boyfriends and all. Im a bottom and still got shamed, humiliated and bullied for being on the smaller side. By the late 90s I stopped dating forever. I got the message loud and clear . I basically got kicked out of the gay community
That's a shame. Not everyone cares so much about that.
Sorry to read this. Be you. Some can be so cruel.
Give yourself permission to feel your way through this. Be gentle with yourself 💖
❤PPL always love PPL that love themselves. ❤ You WILL find your tribe.👌👌 We all will👍💪😎I think that we are ALL BEAUTIFUL when we walk in love. 💪💪💪💪💪we are not for everyone. 😎