Also fun fact (not a joke like my other comment), the holy roman empire was a mess, one might see it as a country, but it was all mainly really small countries (or even considered tribes), search the holy roman empire map for images, I assure you that its a mess
@hildebrandgotenland4823 until the german tribes made the rome angry. It's a bit more....complex. Some Germans wants to live with rome, some doesn't want to. Some romans doesn't care if germans aren't from rome and are actually happy to let them live as roman citizens but some Roman politicians wants power and fame so they'll just wage an unnecessary war against any non romans (Germans, Gauls, and even Eastern Empires such as Parthia)
@@H-tr1od I wouldn't say that they "discriminate" them. Quite the contrary. Highest ranks of Roman military used to be held by people of Germanic origin. We have people like Flavius Ricimer, a patrician and magister militum, de facto the ruler of Western Empire.
@@vigilerif you are from the western world, pls dont Talk for the hole Region! In North afrika or Levion they had no influen in anatolia and greeks the same, the greeks, but they had the same culture some how
@@bekirarslan1443 Everyplace the Romans controlled - they had influence (and those places are still influenced today). If you study Roman history and the methods they used, they would kidnap all the sons of the kings they defeated, and then educate those they kidnapped and Romanized them...and often, those educated princes would return to their own lands and that's how Roman culture dominated: in North Africa, in the Levant, in Germany, in Spain...even in Persia. Nearly everywhere where there are roads, aqueducts, even the school systems are designed from the Roman model. The Romans were SO successful that other kingdoms stole Roman methods and still use those methods today. I've lived all throughout Europe, Turkey, Iraq (and Middle East) and saw Romanization EVERYWHERE. Just to show you how foolish you are, here is a list of the hundreds of cities in Turkey that the Romans built, but you say the Romans had no influence?! LOL!!! Now, go study and learn something: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Roman_towns_and_cities_in_Turkey
Audacity? It was named Holy, because of the role of the pope and in honor of the church and Roman because Rome was part of it, when it was founded. Yes, the actual city of Rome was included in the HRE. And finally Empire is just a weird translation of the German word „Reich“, which actually translates to Realm. Same with German Empire in 1871, in German it was always called German Realm (Reich), not Empire (Imperium).
@@junbog No, I’m German and know the terms. Kaiserreich is a retrospective term and was never the official name of the country. It was always called Deutsches Reich from 1871 on. Kaiserreich was a colloquial term and did not stand automatically for an Empire with colonies, which came later for Germany
It wouldnt surprise me at all. Some American soldiers experienced the same during The Battle of the Hürtgenwald... "Where are my legions-Germanicus?!!😢
One of the main reasons was also the infrastructure. In Gallia they could conquer a leader and his small town, which was the center of a tribal area and it was theirs. in Germania however, you didn't have these structures yet. If you defeated a tribe, it wasn't over and guerillia wars as in 9 AD made Rome despair. It was not conquerable.
The Germanic tribes had major infrastructure and resources the Romans wanted to exploit. The only difference was that the Germans infrastructure was only exploitable by traversing hundreds of miles of dense swamp forest where the Roman phalanx was incapable of attacking or defending. The Romans inability to develop a new battle strategy is why they could t conquer Germania.
For sure it was conquerable. The Romans did with Druso and kept Germania for 20 years. The problem was the Roman arrogance and thirst of resources that made the Illiric peoples as well as the German ones in a condition of rebellion.
No not really it would’ve eventually happened under Roman rule, problem was infrastructure and the resources there, their was not enough motivation to conquer it which they’ve could have done, if three legions were annihilated in Britain there would be no Roman Britain most likely
@@enriqueperezarce5485 well, I’ve played both, I don’t remember whether there’s diplo points in Imperator Rome but I know they’re in Europa Universalis IV, it could be either I suppose if that mechanic is in Imperator Rome
I love reading an alternative history author Harry Turtledove who writes about what ifs in history. One of his books focused on Rome NOT having made any of the mistakes against the Germans that they did and they actually integrated their lands into the Roman Empire. In that alternative history Rome extended their borders to eastern Poland and into Ukraine joining with the Crimea area they actually had taken over from the Greeks. This created a much more powerful empire where the ferocity of the German warriors was harnessed into Roman Legions and Rome was able to survive as an empire into the 20th century susscessfully fending off Huns, Mongols Persians and assimilating the Slavs as well. The Roman Empire thus having secured their north and east was able to invade the Arabian peninsula and assimilate the arabs into the empire thus preventing the rise of Islam.
Do you recall what explanation he gave for the empire being able to prevent the spread of Islam? It feels like an odd choice, given how Christianity spread within the empire despite some emperors' best efforts to contain it.
@@rhett3185Well I do not think I was able to represent every nouance that Turtledove presented but he has a PHD in History of the Mediterranean and Roman and Byzantine eras. To my eyes he presented very plausible outcomes. Don't forget though this is fiction.
@@thanassisveggos627 i think itd be more realistic to say if arabian were eventually assimilated within roman empire, it would end up increasing muslim converts in the 600th ad
One of the major reasons the Germanic Tribes (primarily the Visigoths) were able to bring down the Roman empire was because Roman identity had changed significantly around the 4th & 5th centuries AD. I remember reading that half of the Roman legions/army were of Germanic ancestry when Rome fell in 476AD. Many soldiers were sympathetic to the tribes and saw Rome as the oppressor. Many Roman soldiers simply turned their back and allowed the city to be plundered.
Actually one could argue that the germanic identity also changed, while it's true that the sack of Rome in 410 AD was due to the poor management of foederati (federated allies) many germanic tribes at this point were highly Romanized, and more often than not did these barbarian kingdoms expand on Roman grounds due to internal issues in Rome such as civil war (i.e Vandal occupation of Africa) that is not to say the Romans took it lying down however as when they had moments of stability, territory was reclaimed (i.e campaigns of Majorian)
the Roman empire was in a long decline from the 3rd century onwards. their policy of integrating foederati brought many Germanic princes and warriors into their legions. by the 5th century the number of foederati was impressive. coupled with the slow collapse of Roman institutions and the pressure from the Huns moving westwards it is no wonder the Germanic tribes took over almost all of western Rome.
@@StarJes1 I was always think as an immediate afterthought of ancient or even medieval Europeans, the land they inhabited was almost entirely untamed/uncultivated. Their environment was just pure, raw nature.
Germania had the largest forest of Europe in that time, it was sometimes very thick as a jungle, its name was Hercynian Forest, today's Black Forest is a remnant of the ancient large forest. Even the Roman sources speak about these lands as mysterious and full of danger, many tales and rumors were born about it, because the Romans had less information about the people living in those forests. Of course the trade was going on between these regions, but still it was a bit of gray area for the Romans and definitely the Scandinavian part.
Not entirely. There simply were no towns and infrastructure to controll the area properly, so it was a constant forest guerillia war. All great powers lost to guerillia tactics.
@@hildebrandgotenland4823Yh but that also proves it wasn’t really worth it. There’s no towns or infrastructure so you can’t definitively beat them and even if you could, it will take years and there’s not really any great taxes or plunder to reap from the region to recoup the losses afterwards. Much easier to use the convenient large rivers to border the crazy shit covered barbarians in and go and subjugate another wealthy Eastern kingdom. Also since we’re in the area might as well recruit a few thousand cavalry for the auxiliaries to take to Asia.
@@dylanmorgan2752 True, but "crazy shit covered barbarians" is neither true, nor shows that you have any objective or advanced historical knowledge. These "barbarians" had cleaning tools, even for their ears and did wash themselves just as any other people. So you shouldn't use such pejorative descriptions.
@@hildebrandgotenland4823 It was comedic use of hyperbole from the stereotypical perspective of a Roman author of the day. To the Roman’s they were simply bearded, smelly, uncivilized brutes with strange gods who like banging drums and blowing horns in the forest. No need to take it seriously or personally. I’m a Celtic Briton and we were represented as long haired spear chuckers who fuck our sisters and live in huts made from poo. There’s a shred of truth in every stereotype but just because I don’t always acknowledge the positives doesn’t mean I’m unaware of their existence.
Rome theoretically conquered Germania. After the humiliation by Arminius, the Romans took revenge and annihilated the Germanic tribes that helped Arminius, but at the end Germanicus retired because of the reasons mentioned on the video
@@jonasmollghin9719 You have to thank technology like firearms and the likes for their empire to expand to that height, alongside THEM[the bri'sh] being the pioneers of the industrial revolution. The mongol empire existed in an era where *none* of that technology existed, hence, logistics were a nightmare to do so. The mongol empire was. just. BUILT DIFFERENT.
The one emperor who seemed to be fairly able to fix part of the problem was Marcus Aurelius. His idea was cut though the area of eastern Europe along the Dneiper and another river between the Black sea and Baltic sea. These two rivers almost meet in approximately the middle of the continent. If he had succeeded, it would have had three effects. It would shorten the frontier of the empire by hundreds of miles. It would have been a far more defensible border along two major rivers. Also, it would have given the empire access to farmland and other natural resources. He failed because he died of a plague that swept through the empire at this time and basically destroyed any chance of anyone doing this.
9 A.D. Battle of the Teutoburger Wald (Forest). Where Heerman (Arminius) and the Germanic Ghost Warriors anihilated the 17th, 18th & 19th Roman columns, along with their auxiliaries. Fierce battling over three days & two nights, led to the deaths of 30,000+ Roman soldiers. The Germanic people protected their land from the invader.
Rome suffered much worse defeats in the past, it still had over 60,000 men in Gaul or Italy ready or to enlist more auxiliaries, the Germans liked being Romans but the Romans wanted to Romanize too quickly, they could have reconquered everything and Germanicus was practically doing it again but internal disagreements plus the low value of the territory stopped everything
I feel like calling the romans a simple invader and the actions of that traitor as protection leaves out many details. For one, it is not that germania unilaterally hated the Empire, as seen with factions such as Segesties, and Germanic warriors such as Arminius' brother Flavius, proving to the Empire's policy of adaptation and adoption, Arminius acted in name of germania but not speaking for every German, heck, not even speaking for every member of his own tribe given the fact that he was later assassinated not by Romans but by his own countrymen Additionally, Roman occupation and dominion would not be a total subjugation as many would be led to believe but rather a slow process of vassalization and romanization, if Germania would look anything like Gallia, then if teutoburg was avoided, things such as infrastructure development and urbanization would have been not just probable but basically ordained Arminius claims to be loyal to his homecountry and home gods, but I feel like it is failed to be mentioned that the romans did not practice large scale religious pursicutions save for Christianity in its failings to venerate the Roman pantheon in the first few centuries of the empire, the empire would have no qualms in seeing the gods of germania still worshiped. The Romans, contrary to popular belief, didn't force people to surrender their culture, but rather would encorage romanization over many years through things such as military service (of which many germanic warriors would find employment until the end of the western empire) introduction of Roman way of life such as the building of Roman cities, etc. In conclusion: Arminius delenda est
In Tacitus' Germania he described Germany as being relatively devoid of natural resources like gold or silver, and also not notably good for growing wheat. So, there was no insensitive for the Romans to conquer Germany.
@@hansmeier3287 The Roman invasion in to Germany took place from 12 BC - AD 16 and Tacitus wrote Germania in 98 AD. my point was that as far as the romans knew Germany was not worth the trouble of conquering.
@@hansmeier3287the Romans focused on the Border areas as a way to protect their more profitable lands. There were debates in Roman society regarding the natural borders for their Empire and they realized that the Rhine served as a Natural border and created fortificarions and camps all accross said River. Same thing happened with the Danube which was another natural border. This wasn't like today where you had demarcated lines but natural features were used as a way to show what area was inside Rome.
True. Germania didn't have considerable resources like gold and silver useful to Romans. They were conquering germania by diplomatic means but after that fell Romans never invaded germania because costs were heavier than gains. They would have conquered it if they had wanted to but no considerable gain.
Another problem was that conquering many smaller tribes was more tedious than conquering one big kingdom because with the large kingdom you can just beat one huge army and they surrender while the many smaller tribes need individual defeats
Short answer, they tried. During the time of Augustus Caesar, Germanía was in the process of becoming a province and became somewhat of a province being called germanía magna in the empire. Rome experienced some success even the mixing of German peoples (who at the time where in tribes and the common person did not speak nor understand Roman, there was a communication barrier, there was a cultural barrier as the Roman’s considered the Germanic tribes as barbaric and considered the people barbarians, the word barbarian comes from the Roman’s only hearing bar bar bar among foreigners and foreign languages) there is a famous example the empire actually took in a little boy named arminius, he was taken and adopted at a young age from a Germanic tribe and brought up in Rome, he and his brother served in the military, they served in the campaigns of the east at the time. Arminuis was then stationed in germanía as a way to bridge the divide between Rome and the Germanic tribes, and he led three legions which is roughly around 15,000 soldiers to there death in teutoburg forest which would see Roman legions go in to the forest in three columns getting trapped inside going on a several day ambush that we’d leave almost to no survivors as everyone was literally killed off by the Germanic tribes constantly harassing and ambushing the Roman’s. This would lead to Augustus going into a little depression at the almost near end of his life over the loss of three legions and would print him to realize that Germanía can not be conquered and that Rome could not civilize it. Much of Rome was also based on how profitable a province would be. The empire could only function on if it was constantly gaining recourses from it province and germanía wasn’t with worth the cost of becoming a province. Similar to how Gaul costed alto of money to maintain but provided almost nothing on terms of being profitable to the empire. There have also been stories of the Roman soldiers who had been on campaigns to Germanía under germanicus who saw the bones of there fallen brothers and predecessors and the scattered remains of the three legions (15,000 men) just scattered at tuetoborg, showing the horrific death of the ambush of the Roman soldiers who died. So germanía didn’t become a Roman province as it wasn’t worth it and not deemed necessary to be brought in to the empire considering the loss of life and the loss of a lot of a lot of resources with minimal to no gain.
The real reason though was there was no economic benefit to holding on to Germania, it was just a net loss for them. Better to pull back and go after more civilised and richer parts of the world (Persia)
They weren’t lol. When the romans actually tried to fight them, Roman general germanicus went into germania and annihilated and massacred germanic tribes without any problems. If rome wanted to conquer germania they would have no problems in doing so, But germania was just a useless land to conquer without resources.
There were more than a dozen Battlestars in the Colonial Fleet-In the early days of the First Cylon War, there were initially 12 Battlestars-One for each colony of man-But as the war went on, loads more Battlestars were built, massive shipyards-Crunching out military hardware. Because the Cylons had ramped up their military production, so did 12 Colonies. The 12 Colonies became one massive war economy, and a military draft was enacted-The war is why the colonies became united, at the war’s start each planet had an independent government.
Fun fact: Roman's were freak out of the Germania dense forest. A forest with spirits and monsters and scary stuff😅. Apparently Roman's had cut down almost all their wild forest, so this was a new and unknown environment for them. They did not know how to navigate and how to survive in this environment. Plus what you said. 😅
Usually you push until you reach natural bariers to end and create a sensible defensive frontier. Romans did have that on Rein river and alpine mountains. Germany is quite open. They would have to reach odra river and sudet mountains which was crazy hard to do. Best example is to see what Hadrian did and tried to do after Trajan conquests.
Someone said, "Rome conquered all areas that were worth conquering." Germania had no cities, only little tribal villages, with an average of 10 huts. Unlike the Celts, they had no economy or gold. They could have gone back in after Varus's disaster and gone all Julius Ceasar on the Germanians, killing millions and enslaving millions more, but what would they have gained by doing that? Trees...
Completely virgin land to be invested into by building roads, cities and ports. Also a good source of timber on the short term. They didn't need to conquer all of it anyway, just reach the rhine and chill. Conquering Germania made more sense than the Brittania.
Romans had the tendency to conquer and advance already existing civilizations they found most intriguing. For instance, the Celts, Gauls, Celtiberians, Carthagenians, especially Greeks, and etc. They lost interest in Germania and Ireland probably because they weren't as united, pretty, or useful to them. Those civilizations helped influence/shape their empire even more than Etruscans. Basically the Etruscans was their first foundation that they liked and borrowed. It's like the equivalent of an artist taking references from several sources in order to shape their style of art. Not to mention the already existing Greek colonies in Sicily and small pockets of Italy, which is why they had similar Gods/temples
@@constantinethecataphract5949 they had all the timber they wanted. Britainia didn't make much sense either - which was why Rome left, but it made more sense than Germania because of the Tin mines in Cornwall and gold mines in Wales - Tin was useful to rome because it was used to make Bronze (Even if Rome was an iron age civilsiation)
Forests for sure. It is hard to keep the nice square phalanx formation when marching through a forest. A batch of thrown Roman pilum effective in open battle (javelin designed to penetrate a shield hard to remove... making enemy shields useless) ... In a forest however the enemy can duck behind a tree - if they see a swarm of pilum flying through the air in their direction.
However Rome did establish puppet states in Germania, Scotland, Balkans, and Scandinavia, meaning that they had a good bit of control and influence in those areas.
In south america, Alonso de Ercilla made a story about Pedro de Valdivia adopting a mapuche kid and training him into the arts of war, this kid now a man, defected to the indigenous side and overwhelmed the crown tercios, slaying Pedro de Valdivia. That kid was Lautaro. Everything was a retelling of the story of the roman general Varus and his prodigy, Arminius (Hermann). A true renaissance man, Alonso de Ercilla rebuilt hispanic history into the topics of the classics.
Not exactly, it was the Germanic tribes along with the Goths, Huns, and Parthians/Persians(I think). Goths are technically considered Germanic, but they were not actually from what is considered Germania at the time as they migrated from the east to what is now north of Macedonia and Bulgaria.
@@rhett3185Then go ahead and read about the Gothic language. It’s strangely similar to even modern day German. Some people argue like as if Germanic tribes vanished and Germans suddenly appeared out of nowhere
Rome's fall had a LOT to do with Roman corruption, nepotism, favoritism, cronyism... There was so much corruption in Rome that it might as well have just suicided...though technically you are correct, had Rome actually kept its corruption and treasonous people in check: they'd not have fallen as they did. Of course, that's just one opinion...but history books are full of stories of their corruption and traitors...
@@RundfunkerOnline I agree with you, I believe most Europeans are more connected (due to migrating in and out of various hot-spots) than modern historical consensus appears to suggest, that being, we are all very different and separate. the language families themselves hold the key to deciphering the truth of European history imo.
The real reason was it wasn’t worth it. Much of Roman territory was just as hostile with difficult terrain and warlike people, but there was actual economic gain to be had there, unlike in Germania.
Short answer: They were able to conquer Germania once but they were not able to maintain control for multiple reasons (for example the power structure of the tribes were too decentraliced to control them -> a few tribes submit to the empire, some others go into the resistance.
I live in a village in germany they had a base from 70 bc to 79bc, my theory is they had good points, but at 79 bc, versuvius erupted, i think the ash probably blocked the sun here is not much sun anywhere, so the crops from the romans did not grow anymore so they did leave. The barbarian guys did know that smoking meat did conserve it. The romans idk really if they did some art of ham like that.
Germans became culturaly and religiously romans, although the people at the time probably did not identify themselves as german as this was a name that was well known in the roman world. They were franks and if the ancient stories are believed they share common ancestory as the romans.
Rather the nobility cosplaying as romans beccause the pope preffered them over Byzanz and France. The people rather didnt gave a fuck and called themself germans or what ever their region was called.
Plus the Rhine was easier to defend than open country. The Limes EAST of the Rhine ultimately couldn’t hold whereas the Rhine did. Romans also had swift moving river boats to move troops to problem areas. I am writing this in long-term Roman territory near Speyer, Germany, or what the Romans would have called Noviomagus [Speyer], Germania Superior, WEST of the Rhine and therefore easily defended.
I come from one of the countries that was never conquered by the Romans. They even built two walls to keep my ancestors out, and Emperor Hadrian's wall marked where the Roman Empire ended.
Actually, the Picts and Caladonians were conquered by the Romans under Legatus Agricola, the difference being that Caledonia was never occupied like Gallia or Britannia, due to the lack of incentive. Also at one point, the Antonine wall marked where the Empire ended, at least for a time
@davethompson3326 What I've learnt is that, in order to repel the eastern tribes, Rome hired Germans to watchdog their borders. As time passed, Germans became large portion of the army. Eventually,the German commander declared the abjugation of the Roman emperor. That was the last chapter of one of the greatest empire.
It was mainly the landscape. The gorilla tactics of the Germanians also made it difficult for the Romans, who were very good at conventional warfare and sieges.
The Germans were quite funny at the time, they were defeated, massacred, enslaved and forcibly conscripted for centuries, they were superior in nothing, everything they learned they learned From the Romans, there was no currency, there were no written laws, there were huts, there were no roads, they were Primitive, Arminius himself was Roman by education, there is no reason or reason to be proud of that people who were not a people Seeing that there was a tribe and some spanned via the history of the Romans, we can say almost everything and populed Germans coming from Scandivavia or from Asian steps.
It seems that prosperity and wealth have made its course through the south of Europe in the early centuries and has nestled itself upwards throughout the northwest/ northern of Europe. The Romans were a crazy rich empire and they had all the resources to beat the German tribes…
Rome would have needed a second caesar with an environment similar to what sprouted the first one. a general with loyal troops and incredible military skill, able to singlehandedly fabricate a claim and execute a multi year strategy to subjugate an entire cultural group just as means of advancing in a meritocratic system to allow for his eventual takeover of said system.
during the imperial era? Exceptional Roman generals like that would have been assassinated long before they even get ahold of a legion. Unless ofcourse if it's the emperor that the praetorians haven't decided to kill yet.
Probely would had caused an early and a much bigger east imigration of the germanics. The slavs also would had developed much more south or even in western asia parts, beccause the east imigration of the germanics would had been much more brutal. For reference, the germanics temporarly imigrated a territory simular to the Kaiserreich and a good chunk beyond, for example the goths reached into modern Ukrain.
Ahhaha cope, and nice "we" larper. The Romans are extinct, the great Germanic warriors of the Sciria, Gothia, Vandalia and Lombardia made sure of that.
Something we often struggle to understand from our contemporary viewpoint is how useless land often was back then. People often see a mess of disunited tribes and say "oh why weren't they conquered, it's free land," but that's just it. Land was never in short supply, people were. Vast land without many people or many resources (such as Germania) would be of almost no use to the Romans, not to mention the cost of maintaining control.
Germanicus proved Rome could conquer Germania, but it was less about whether they could and more about whether they wanted to. The current border was relatively defensible and the actual benefits of controlling Germania were minimal outside of prestige. In hindsight the move to conquer Germania might have paid off, as controlling the region would mitigate the migratory invasions that occasional sprung from Germania and other eastern regions; however, at the time, while migratory invasions were a pain, they weren’t the existential threats by any means.
They could’ve technically conquered it, but governing and sustaining it was untenable so it was deemed not worth conquering. Only defending against from the Rhine, and for future conquests down the line if it becomes worth invading.
@@rhett3185 eh, Gallia didn’t differ much from Germania, and Rome handled it pretty smoothly. There was a sense of Celto-Germanic identity in times of crisis, but their actual national identity was relatively weak when compared to that of the Latins or Greeks; just like the galls, I’d expect some fierce resistance at first, with a couple Vercingetorix-like figures trying in vain to drive Rome out, but it being ultimately quelled after a couple decades of rule. If Rome can manage to hold Germania for 50 or so years, I believe the province would be relatively easy to maintain. Rome had the potential to expand far past their borders in our time, but the status quo of limited expansion set by Augustus and his immediate successors effectively established a semi-permanent Roman border to maintain.
Ceasar said it himself, but covered it up to continue his war effort. But these days due to the romantinisation of rome, mostly in countrys like Italy, spain and America for some reason, these facts are overshadowered by half washed storys about Victory. Also, such thinks as the roman revange on the leaders durring Teutoburg overshadow often such facts. Starngely people act like as if this was a Roman victory against all of Germania, while most tribes, even when the romans marched threw their territory, had no clue about what happend over the last years further west. In the end a lot of tribes probely didnt even knew about it until infiltrating major roman citys. To me its funny how people that love rome that much, judge Otakus in the same breath for the same stuff they do them self.
Wrong. The Roman and Hellenic languages came from Northern Europe. Culture and civilisation in Europe comes from the Indo-European Aryan strata, which is higher in North Europeans. It’s why North Europe is more advanced.
Northern Europe has been slighlty more advanced only in the last 300 years. And still today Italians and Spanish live 2 years more than Germans on average. Northern Europe is literally the place on Earth with the shortest period of high development. The Egyptian, the Greeks, the Romans were ruling when northern europeans were still hunter-gatherers @BellBeakerBloke
@@marcoac-sx6lq there’s no such thing as Romans or Greeks without European genes that came from the North North Europe has been more advanced for 1500 years
I watched 3 documentaries last night on the revenge for Teutumberg forests and Germanicus (ironic name lol) almost conquered Germania but was called back in like 16 or 17 ad in favor of going the diplomatic route
I’m surprised that they couldn’t break the German Barbarians will but we’re talking about ROME here a nation that has deafeated Carthage Hannibal and more but they can’t even defeat some barbarians I khow the terrain was difficult but still
Terrain is always a huge morale booster. If your forces know the land and have peace of mind they can retreat and regroup easily, it is almost impossible to conquer them. It’s a major reason a lot of barbarians bordering Rome worshipped nature and forests because it protected them in real time unlike Roman Gods who were more abstract and constantly needed priests and sects to tell them how to live. Roman armies retreating was dishonorable and triggered loses in popularity while barbarians retreating was just another Tuesday in their culture that further enhanced trust in their Forests protectors.
No we just go to writings and evidence from the Roman’s and Greeks mainly because they write most of the stuff down the Germans didn’t, the name also comes from the Gauls giving it to the Germans not Roman’s
Was Hamburg ever conquered by the romans? It’s seems my hometown Oldenburg was but they didn’t get that far. I live in Hamburg now. My uncle lives in cologne. I think that was Roman city
Actually, Rome conquered Germany for some period of time so your point is wrong they control it just not for a long time but it’s like Mesopotamia you know it wasn’t controlled for all time or like Anatolia - It was controlled like partially only but we still think it’s fully conquered.
Not only that, but another reason was that the Roman military did actually make a lot of money for Rome through conquest and pillaging as was typical for that time but Germania similar to Ireland was just not valuable. It wasn’t really much money there so there was really no point in invading it. It’s not like the Romans needed the territory and there was no money to be made in Germania
another part of the reason why Rome didn't conquer Germania was because of Augustus' will that expressed his wishes for the Roman Empire to not expand past its natural borders that had been achieved during pax augusta, which Tiberius, the succeeding emperor, followed through with. When Germanicus was sweeping through Germania for Arminius, and massacreing the germanian tribes, Tiberius ordered him back.
Fighting Germans for Rome it's like Fighting Amazighs north Africans leading by Carthage... it takes all Roman effort forces and resources ... Rome would never undertake such a reckless act for a poor, uncivilized region lacking any ambition to build a civilized empire. According to their belief, such a region would not pose a direct threat to the empire as long as the empire did not attempt to conquer it. This is in stark contrast to North Africa, led by Carthage, which had boundless ambitions to conquer Europe due to its conflict with Rome and to establish a military and commercial empire that controlled all shores of the Mediterranean from west to east. Therefore, I admire the Roman Empire and how their cunning enabled them to defeat a formidable military and commercial power like the Carthaginian alliance, despite the darker aspects such as slavery and the brutality of the Colosseum.
Correct me if I’m wrong but another large part of Germania tribes is it’s not like 10 tribes or something all working together, no it was like 50 different tribes none of them working together, all different from each other and all operating differently, so it wouldn’t have been one large push, you’d have to take one tribe at a time and they determined it just not worth the effort of the long drawn out campaign, basically conquering that one single territory would have been like 100 different wars
Fierce Resistance is a broad generalization, no Germanic tribes WANTS to be Rome. The infighting between the Senate during the early days of the Empire (Julius Caesar) just further worsen their ability to expand Roman Influence & has been on a decline since. This is why we had so much Germanic Legions in Rome, because the Germanic tribesmen WANTS to serve Rome, sure some of them dont, but this alone shows just how complex the situation is.
Battle of Varus was also a big fact why they dont put more effort in it! It was too hard to get it for what they would have get from it ! (The land wasnt really usefull or nice for them, they dont really wanted it).
But even on the cusp of a new aeon, an archetype may spawn offspring - or rather, it may con tinue to change according to its nature and particular mode of time.
Lets not forget that Rome might have taken it during the time of Emperor Tiberius. But he became so afraid of the succeses of Germanicus that he called him back. But he was very succesfull and might have changed world history if he wasnt called back.
Germans create the HRE
Romans: NOW you want to be Roman? NOW?!
XD It's a bit more complex in fact Germanic tribes often wanted to be part of Rome. But Rome also made mistakes and made the Germans angry.
😂😂😂
Ah yes the Hostage Rescue Team
Also fun fact (not a joke like my other comment), the holy roman empire was a mess, one might see it as a country, but it was all mainly really small countries (or even considered tribes), search the holy roman empire map for images, I assure you that its a mess
@hildebrandgotenland4823 until the german tribes made the rome angry. It's a bit more....complex. Some Germans wants to live with rome, some doesn't want to. Some romans doesn't care if germans aren't from rome and are actually happy to let them live as roman citizens but some Roman politicians wants power and fame so they'll just wage an unnecessary war against any non romans (Germans, Gauls, and even Eastern Empires such as Parthia)
Rome: *still kicking it in the East until 1453.
Some Germans in the 9th century: You know, I'm something of a Roman myself.
Lazy 🥱
They weren’t Romans because they didn’t get permission from tribune Aquila.
@@Vienic2a fellow Historia Civilis fan I see
🤣🤣🤣 best comment
That's exactly the reason why they invented that thing "byzantine" and why they start to say that byzantine were not Romans
Germans BEFORE Rome fell: Let's destroy the hated Roman enemy.
Germans AFTER Rome fell: We love Rome so much, let's be Romans.
Just like the romans of the 5th century had little in common with the romans of the time of Augustus, the same is true for the germanics.
Not quite. They firstly settled in Roman Empire as socii (alies) of Rome
That's bullshit the Germanics simply won from rome and so owned it. Seems like al you roman supporters still cant accept the fact you lost big time.
Not really, germans apparently wanted to assimilate into rome but romans discriminated them
@@H-tr1od I wouldn't say that they "discriminate" them. Quite the contrary. Highest ranks of Roman military used to be held by people of Germanic origin. We have people like Flavius Ricimer, a patrician and magister militum, de facto the ruler of Western Empire.
Then after the roman empire fell, Germany nobility be like: let's romanticizes Roman empire
😂😂😂
Roman culture is contagious
@@Ajaylix We're still using Roman methodology is nearly everything we do today...even the way the evils of subjugation via politics is executed...
@@vigilerif you are from the western world, pls dont Talk for the hole Region! In North afrika or Levion they had no influen in anatolia and greeks the same, the greeks, but they had the same culture some how
@@bekirarslan1443 Everyplace the Romans controlled - they had influence (and those places are still influenced today). If you study Roman history and the methods they used, they would kidnap all the sons of the kings they defeated, and then educate those they kidnapped and Romanized them...and often, those educated princes would return to their own lands and that's how Roman culture dominated: in North Africa, in the Levant, in Germany, in Spain...even in Persia. Nearly everywhere where there are roads, aqueducts, even the school systems are designed from the Roman model. The Romans were SO successful that other kingdoms stole Roman methods and still use those methods today. I've lived all throughout Europe, Turkey, Iraq (and Middle East) and saw Romanization EVERYWHERE. Just to show you how foolish you are, here is a list of the hundreds of cities in Turkey that the Romans built, but you say the Romans had no influence?! LOL!!! Now, go study and learn something: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Roman_towns_and_cities_in_Turkey
Byzantium was what was left of Rome, it went east not west. HRE only shares the name and not even most of Italy.
The audacity of Germany creating a Holy Roman Empire! Hahahaha
Audacity? It was named Holy, because of the role of the pope and in honor of the church and Roman because Rome was part of it, when it was founded. Yes, the actual city of Rome was included in the HRE. And finally Empire is just a weird translation of the German word „Reich“, which actually translates to Realm. Same with German Empire in 1871, in German it was always called German Realm (Reich), not Empire (Imperium).
@@RundfunkerOnline No it was a Kaiserreich (Empire)
@@junbog No, I’m German and know the terms. Kaiserreich is a retrospective term and was never the official name of the country. It was always called Deutsches Reich from 1871 on. Kaiserreich was a colloquial term and did not stand automatically for an Empire with colonies, which came later for Germany
@@RundfunkerOnline Wir hatten einen Kaiser also waren wir ein Kaiserreich
@@RundfunkerOnline Es hieß nicht Kaiserreich als Stattsname aber es war EIN KAISERREICH
Guess that’s the reason we cut trees
It becomes hotter
You think that romans 2 thousand years ago cared@@TFSIChristmas
@@Jamal_DanielsIdiots!
@@TFSIChristmasbruh
@@Jamal_Daniels ofc I’d do the same those times. Today, I don’t think so.
The trees are speaking German
dont tell me they also made a tunnel underground
@@Attrishnait might seem crazy what im about to say
Trees have funny mustache
"Ach du Scheiße"
-The trees (37 B.C)
It wouldnt surprise me at all. Some American soldiers experienced the same during The Battle of the Hürtgenwald...
"Where are my legions-Germanicus?!!😢
Guerilla warfare’s been a bitch to fight since way back basically.
One of the main reasons was also the infrastructure. In Gallia they could conquer a leader and his small town, which was the center of a tribal area and it was theirs. in Germania however, you didn't have these structures yet. If you defeated a tribe, it wasn't over and guerillia wars as in 9 AD made Rome despair. It was not conquerable.
That and a lot of the resources there weren’t useful or were already in the empire in large quantities
The Germanic tribes had major infrastructure and resources the Romans wanted to exploit. The only difference was that the Germans infrastructure was only exploitable by traversing hundreds of miles of dense swamp forest where the Roman phalanx was incapable of attacking or defending. The Romans inability to develop a new battle strategy is why they could t conquer Germania.
@@thevault5828 So it was a major infrastructure, bit it lacked a certain quality and good overview around it.
This isnt true. Some gallic polities were ruled by olligarchies, some by kings, some by vote of the eldest males of the tribe"republic", etc
For sure it was conquerable. The Romans did with Druso and kept Germania for 20 years.
The problem was the Roman arrogance and thirst of resources that made the Illiric peoples as well as the German ones in a condition of rebellion.
It’s cuz they didn’t have enough Diplo points to convert their culture to Roman or Gallic
No not really it would’ve eventually happened under Roman rule, problem was infrastructure and the resources there, their was not enough motivation to conquer it which they’ve could have done, if three legions were annihilated in Britain there would be no Roman Britain most likely
@@enriqueperezarce5485I believe he was trying to make a joke about the game Europa Universalis IV lol
@@Quarrenn17 I didn’t see the last part I was tired but is that really Europa, I looked back thought it was Imperator Rome
@@enriqueperezarce5485 well, I’ve played both, I don’t remember whether there’s diplo points in Imperator Rome but I know they’re in Europa Universalis IV, it could be either I suppose if that mechanic is in Imperator Rome
@@Quarrenn17 oh thx for telling me then.
I love reading an alternative history author Harry Turtledove who writes about what ifs in history. One of his books focused on Rome NOT having made any of the mistakes against the Germans that they did and they actually integrated their lands into the Roman Empire. In that alternative history Rome extended their borders to eastern Poland and into Ukraine joining with the Crimea area they actually had taken over from the Greeks. This created a much more powerful empire where the ferocity of the German warriors was harnessed into Roman Legions and Rome was able to survive as an empire into the 20th century susscessfully fending off Huns, Mongols Persians and assimilating the Slavs as well. The Roman Empire thus having secured their north and east was able to invade the Arabian peninsula and assimilate the arabs into the empire thus preventing the rise of Islam.
Do you recall what explanation he gave for the empire being able to prevent the spread of Islam? It feels like an odd choice, given how Christianity spread within the empire despite some emperors' best efforts to contain it.
Very interesting, but I’m not sure that’s how it would go down even in a made up, what-if scenario.
if this were really true, the world would be really better
@@rhett3185Well I do not think I was able to represent every nouance that Turtledove presented but he has a PHD in History of the Mediterranean and Roman and Byzantine eras. To my eyes he presented very plausible outcomes. Don't forget though this is fiction.
@@thanassisveggos627 i think itd be more realistic to say if arabian were eventually assimilated within roman empire, it would end up increasing muslim converts in the 600th ad
One of the major reasons the Germanic Tribes (primarily the Visigoths) were able to bring down the Roman empire was because Roman identity had changed significantly around the 4th & 5th centuries AD. I remember reading that half of the Roman legions/army were of Germanic ancestry when Rome fell in 476AD. Many soldiers were sympathetic to the tribes and saw Rome as the oppressor. Many Roman soldiers simply turned their back and allowed the city to be plundered.
Actually one could argue that the germanic identity also changed, while it's true that the sack of Rome in 410 AD was due to the poor management of foederati (federated allies) many germanic tribes at this point were highly Romanized, and more often than not did these barbarian kingdoms expand on Roman grounds due to internal issues in Rome such as civil war (i.e Vandal occupation of Africa) that is not to say the Romans took it lying down however as when they had moments of stability, territory was reclaimed (i.e campaigns of Majorian)
Kind of like America today
the Roman empire was in a long decline from the 3rd century onwards. their policy of integrating foederati brought many Germanic princes and warriors into their legions. by the 5th century the number of foederati was impressive. coupled with the slow collapse of Roman institutions and the pressure from the Huns moving westwards it is no wonder the Germanic tribes took over almost all of western Rome.
TRAITORS.
*Germanic tribes, German people didn't exist back then
But damn, it's sad how much of the Black Forest and other forests are gone now
Imagine what the forests looked like back then.
@@12Gauge223fr, europe had large forests, but its all almost gone cuz people cut em down. Maybe the size of brazils rainforest who knows
@@StarJes1 I was always think as an immediate afterthought of ancient or even medieval Europeans, the land they inhabited was almost entirely untamed/uncultivated. Their environment was just pure, raw nature.
Maybe a little less so for the medieval period and the Mediterranean however.
Germanic tribes
> German people
Germania had the largest forest of Europe in that time, it was sometimes very thick as a jungle, its name was Hercynian Forest, today's Black Forest is a remnant of the ancient large forest.
Even the Roman sources speak about these lands as mysterious and full of danger, many tales and rumors were born about it, because the Romans had less information about the people living in those forests. Of course the trade was going on between these regions, but still it was a bit of gray area for the Romans and definitely the Scandinavian part.
Basically if the Roman’s didn’t conquer it it was because it was not worth it
Not entirely. There simply were no towns and infrastructure to controll the area properly, so it was a constant forest guerillia war. All great powers lost to guerillia tactics.
@@hildebrandgotenland4823Yh but that also proves it wasn’t really worth it. There’s no towns or infrastructure so you can’t definitively beat them and even if you could, it will take years and there’s not really any great taxes or plunder to reap from the region to recoup the losses afterwards.
Much easier to use the convenient large rivers to border the crazy shit covered barbarians in and go and subjugate another wealthy Eastern kingdom. Also since we’re in the area might as well recruit a few thousand cavalry for the auxiliaries to take to Asia.
@@dylanmorgan2752 True, but "crazy shit covered barbarians" is neither true, nor shows that you have any objective or advanced historical knowledge. These "barbarians" had cleaning tools, even for their ears and did wash themselves just as any other people. So you shouldn't use such pejorative descriptions.
They didn't need to conquer all of it. They just needed to reach the Rhine.
@@hildebrandgotenland4823 It was comedic use of hyperbole from the stereotypical perspective of a Roman author of the day. To the Roman’s they were simply bearded, smelly, uncivilized brutes with strange gods who like banging drums and blowing horns in the forest. No need to take it seriously or personally. I’m a Celtic Briton and we were represented as long haired spear chuckers who fuck our sisters and live in huts made from poo. There’s a shred of truth in every stereotype but just because I don’t always acknowledge the positives doesn’t mean I’m unaware of their existence.
Thank you for my daily dose of thinking about the roman empire
I only think about the holy roman empire
@@Damiaanos21 Have you memorized all the duchies yet?
Rome theoretically conquered Germania. After the humiliation by Arminius, the Romans took revenge and annihilated the Germanic tribes that helped Arminius, but at the end Germanicus retired because of the reasons mentioned on the video
That's not conquering and phyrric victory.
And cherusci wasn’t annihilated
@@vladtheimaplertepes Yes, in the battle of Idistaviso.
@@italianguy1273 That was a phyrric victory.
Hannibal was betrayed by his father in law.
Italian cope at its peak
No they didnt. Germanicus only conquered a small part of Germania. The western part.
Also the Germanic tribes that helped Arminius werent annihilated.
It's question from the category "Why didn't Rome conquered the universe?" Pretty hilarious on my taste.
Or "why didn't people live everywhere?"
Well, they actually had the chance and the will to conquer Germania, it's the least stupid question in this category.
Meanwhile the mongols: we were on the verge of greatness. We were THIS. CLOSE!
@@theemperorofman1186The British Empire where way closer.
@@jonasmollghin9719 You have to thank technology like firearms and the likes for their empire to expand to that height, alongside THEM[the bri'sh] being the pioneers of the industrial revolution.
The mongol empire existed in an era where *none* of that technology existed, hence, logistics were a nightmare to do so.
The mongol empire was. just. BUILT DIFFERENT.
"Bro just cut off the trees like would anything go wrong?" *teenage mutant ninja turtles intro playing in the background*
You know how many trees in germany that that would take decades upon decades
@@eternal_riftz8801well if they started earlier and maybe hired some local kids
@@nickkaraoke2128 regardless you need manpower, Resources, Money to fund the project but whos to say they wont get raided by germanic tribes
The one emperor who seemed to be fairly able to fix part of the problem was Marcus Aurelius. His idea was cut though the area of eastern Europe along the Dneiper and another river between the Black sea and Baltic sea. These two rivers almost meet in approximately the middle of the continent. If he had succeeded, it would have had three effects. It would shorten the frontier of the empire by hundreds of miles. It would have been a far more defensible border along two major rivers. Also, it would have given the empire access to farmland and other natural resources. He failed because he died of a plague that swept through the empire at this time and basically destroyed any chance of anyone doing this.
This would mean conquering and assimilating millions of people.
Britain was tough. This would have been ten times harder.
Not much to rule and tax in Germania and that's the main motivation for Roman conquests.
what was the difference to Britannia?
@@embreis2257 Romans eventually withdrew from Britannia because of the same reasons
@@animetv6364 your sense of 'eventually' took almost 400yrs for the Romans to do^^
You should do a 20 second Ted Talk and let the world know the truth.
amazing that u mentioned the forested part. There is a map showing how densely forested was germany at roman times. This answers the question
9 A.D. Battle of the Teutoburger Wald (Forest). Where Heerman (Arminius) and the Germanic Ghost Warriors anihilated the 17th, 18th & 19th Roman columns, along with their auxiliaries. Fierce battling over three days & two nights, led to the deaths of 30,000+ Roman soldiers. The Germanic people protected their land from the invader.
Rome suffered much worse defeats in the past, it still had over 60,000 men in Gaul or Italy ready or to enlist more auxiliaries, the Germans liked being Romans but the Romans wanted to Romanize too quickly, they could have reconquered everything and Germanicus was practically doing it again but internal disagreements plus the low value of the territory stopped everything
After teutoburg we defect Germans a lot times for centuries.
You have to study much more then you think
I feel like calling the romans a simple invader and the actions of that traitor as protection leaves out many details.
For one, it is not that germania unilaterally hated the Empire, as seen with factions such as Segesties, and Germanic warriors such as Arminius' brother Flavius, proving to the Empire's policy of adaptation and adoption, Arminius acted in name of germania but not speaking for every German, heck, not even speaking for every member of his own tribe given the fact that he was later assassinated not by Romans but by his own countrymen
Additionally, Roman occupation and dominion would not be a total subjugation as many would be led to believe but rather a slow process of vassalization and romanization, if Germania would look anything like Gallia, then if teutoburg was avoided, things such as infrastructure development and urbanization would have been not just probable but basically ordained
Arminius claims to be loyal to his homecountry and home gods, but I feel like it is failed to be mentioned that the romans did not practice large scale religious pursicutions save for Christianity in its failings to venerate the Roman pantheon in the first few centuries of the empire, the empire would have no qualms in seeing the gods of germania still worshiped. The Romans, contrary to popular belief, didn't force people to surrender their culture, but rather would encorage romanization over many years through things such as military service (of which many germanic warriors would find employment until the end of the western empire) introduction of Roman way of life such as the building of Roman cities, etc.
In conclusion: Arminius delenda est
Herman. bitte
@@Agostino-h7v After teutoburg the Roman went into germania and killed/burned everything to the ground all the way to the river Elbe
"I fear no man, but that thing, its scares me..."
-Rome about Germans
In Tacitus' Germania he described Germany as being relatively devoid of natural resources like gold or silver, and also not notably good for growing wheat. So, there was no insensitive for the Romans to conquer Germany.
So why did the Romans try for decades?😂😂😂
Funny that Germany turned out to be a really good place to grow crops.
@@hansmeier3287 The Roman invasion in to Germany took place from 12 BC - AD 16 and Tacitus wrote Germania in 98 AD. my point was that as far as the romans knew Germany was not worth the trouble of conquering.
@@hansmeier3287the Romans focused on the Border areas as a way to protect their more profitable lands. There were debates in Roman society regarding the natural borders for their Empire and they realized that the Rhine served as a Natural border and created fortificarions and camps all accross said River. Same thing happened with the Danube which was another natural border. This wasn't like today where you had demarcated lines but natural features were used as a way to show what area was inside Rome.
True. Germania didn't have considerable resources like gold and silver useful to Romans. They were conquering germania by diplomatic means but after that fell Romans never invaded germania because costs were heavier than gains. They would have conquered it if they had wanted to but no considerable gain.
this guys great at history. i've learned so much
the germans have always been able to stand their ground and be formidable opponents
Russians kicked down their door. Germans should be thankful for Americans and British because the Russians would probably still rule Germany.
Only with surprise on their side… 1805, 1917/8 & 1944/5 disagree strongly 💥
@@iLovettGolfmust be tough fighting the world huh
@@seansean250 a foolish endeavour, isn’t it?
@@iLovettGolf context is needed lol
الان از اول تا آخرش دیدم و به نظرم لایو مفیدی بود ممنون آقا پوریا
Asterix and obelix played the most important role
They were gauls bro...
@@sliferskydragon9798
1) dc
2) it was a joke
*Obelix
Roma conquered Galia (Wales)
Damn forgot about Asterix completely until I read this comment. My childhood
Germans always been the toughest soldiers! ⚡⚡☠️☠️
Vril force baby
Arminius and his men defeated the Roman’s so badly that they didn’t retrieve or bury their dead and wounded soldiers.
who was Arminius?
@@TheHippyHoppyHippo Check The Battle of the Teutoburger Forest. It's aaabsolutely sick! :o
Another problem was that conquering many smaller tribes was more tedious than conquering one big kingdom because with the large kingdom you can just beat one huge army and they surrender while the many smaller tribes need individual defeats
Short answer, they tried. During the time of Augustus Caesar, Germanía was in the process of becoming a province and became somewhat of a province being called germanía magna in the empire. Rome experienced some success even the mixing of German peoples (who at the time where in tribes and the common person did not speak nor understand Roman, there was a communication barrier, there was a cultural barrier as the Roman’s considered the Germanic tribes as barbaric and considered the people barbarians, the word barbarian comes from the Roman’s only hearing bar bar bar among foreigners and foreign languages) there is a famous example the empire actually took in a little boy named arminius, he was taken and adopted at a young age from a Germanic tribe and brought up in Rome, he and his brother served in the military, they served in the campaigns of the east at the time. Arminuis was then stationed in germanía as a way to bridge the divide between Rome and the Germanic tribes, and he led three legions which is roughly around 15,000 soldiers to there death in teutoburg forest which would see Roman legions go in to the forest in three columns getting trapped inside going on a several day ambush that we’d leave almost to no survivors as everyone was literally killed off by the Germanic tribes constantly harassing and ambushing the Roman’s. This would lead to Augustus going into a little depression at the almost near end of his life over the loss of three legions and would print him to realize that Germanía can not be conquered and that Rome could not civilize it. Much of Rome was also based on how profitable a province would be. The empire could only function on if it was constantly gaining recourses from it province and germanía wasn’t with worth the cost of becoming a province. Similar to how Gaul costed alto of money to maintain but provided almost nothing on terms of being profitable to the empire. There have also been stories of the Roman soldiers who had been on campaigns to Germanía under germanicus who saw the bones of there fallen brothers and predecessors and the scattered remains of the three legions (15,000 men) just scattered at tuetoborg, showing the horrific death of the ambush of the Roman soldiers who died. So germanía didn’t become a Roman province as it wasn’t worth it and not deemed necessary to be brought in to the empire considering the loss of life and the loss of a lot of a lot of resources with minimal to no gain.
The real reason though was there was no economic benefit to holding on to Germania, it was just a net loss for them. Better to pull back and go after more civilised and richer parts of the world (Persia)
I always wondered what is the fuss between Romans and Germanic tribes
You explained nicely! Thanks
Professional yapper right here
@@nuno_alex505 people are going to talk about history in the comment section of a history video...
They weren’t lol. When the romans actually tried to fight them, Roman general germanicus went into germania and annihilated and massacred germanic tribes without any problems. If rome wanted to conquer germania they would have no problems in doing so, But germania was just a useless land to conquer without resources.
Rome was sick of dealing with that -20 public order per turn from cultural differences.
Germans are always strong
Today they are weak and full of LGBT.
Until they lose, which happens a lot.
@@thomasbravadoRome lost a lot too. The similarity between both of them was that they never gave up.
@@thomasbravadoGermanic peope defeated the Romans. They took over many Roman provinces and even sacked Rome a couple of times
Were.
There were more than a dozen Battlestars in the Colonial Fleet-In the early days of the First Cylon War, there were initially 12 Battlestars-One for each colony of man-But as the war went on, loads more Battlestars were built, massive shipyards-Crunching out military hardware. Because the Cylons had ramped up their military production, so did 12 Colonies.
The 12 Colonies became one massive war economy, and a military draft was enacted-The war is why the colonies became united, at the war’s start each planet had an independent government.
Fun fact: Roman's were freak out of the Germania dense forest. A forest with spirits and monsters and scary stuff😅. Apparently Roman's had cut down almost all their wild forest, so this was a new and unknown environment for them. They did not know how to navigate and how to survive in this environment. Plus what you said. 😅
Usually you push until you reach natural bariers to end and create a sensible defensive frontier. Romans did have that on Rein river and alpine mountains. Germany is quite open. They would have to reach odra river and sudet mountains which was crazy hard to do. Best example is to see what Hadrian did and tried to do after Trajan conquests.
Someone said, "Rome conquered all areas that were worth conquering." Germania had no cities, only little tribal villages, with an average of 10 huts. Unlike the Celts, they had no economy or gold.
They could have gone back in after Varus's disaster and gone all Julius Ceasar on the Germanians, killing millions and enslaving millions more, but what would they have gained by doing that? Trees...
Completely virgin land to be invested into by building roads, cities and ports. Also a good source of timber on the short term.
They didn't need to conquer all of it anyway, just reach the rhine and chill.
Conquering Germania made more sense than the Brittania.
Romans had the tendency to conquer and advance already existing civilizations they found most intriguing. For instance, the Celts, Gauls, Celtiberians, Carthagenians, especially Greeks, and etc. They lost interest in Germania and Ireland probably because they weren't as united, pretty, or useful to them. Those civilizations helped influence/shape their empire even more than Etruscans. Basically the Etruscans was their first foundation that they liked and borrowed. It's like the equivalent of an artist taking references from several sources in order to shape their style of art.
Not to mention the already existing Greek colonies in Sicily and small pockets of Italy, which is why they had similar Gods/temples
Nah Celts and Germans were same.
Skill issue
@@constantinethecataphract5949 they had all the timber they wanted. Britainia didn't make much sense either - which was why Rome left, but it made more sense than Germania because of the Tin mines in Cornwall and gold mines in Wales - Tin was useful to rome because it was used to make Bronze (Even if Rome was an iron age civilsiation)
@@vladtheimaplertepesHuts? Bu ncj of BACKWARDS😂🇮🇩
Forests for sure. It is hard to keep the nice square phalanx formation when marching through a forest. A batch of thrown Roman pilum effective in open battle (javelin designed to penetrate a shield hard to remove... making enemy shields useless) ... In a forest however the enemy can duck behind a tree - if they see a swarm of pilum flying through the air in their direction.
Is no one gonna talk about how Rome doesn't have pannonia in the map?
For some reason I always see modern borders in every type of map idk why
However Rome did establish puppet states in Germania, Scotland, Balkans, and Scandinavia, meaning that they had a good bit of control and influence in those areas.
In south america, Alonso de Ercilla made a story about Pedro de Valdivia adopting a mapuche kid and training him into the arts of war, this kid now a man, defected to the indigenous side and overwhelmed the crown tercios, slaying Pedro de Valdivia. That kid was Lautaro. Everything was a retelling of the story of the roman general Varus and his prodigy, Arminius (Hermann). A true renaissance man, Alonso de Ercilla rebuilt hispanic history into the topics of the classics.
But the Romans would pay dearly fornot doing so as the Germans eventually were the main enemy force to destroy the Romans!!
Not exactly, it was the Germanic tribes along with the Goths, Huns, and Parthians/Persians(I think). Goths are technically considered Germanic, but they were not actually from what is considered Germania at the time as they migrated from the east to what is now north of Macedonia and Bulgaria.
@@rhett3185Then go ahead and read about the Gothic language. It’s strangely similar to even modern day German. Some people argue like as if Germanic tribes vanished and Germans suddenly appeared out of nowhere
Rome's fall had a LOT to do with Roman corruption, nepotism, favoritism, cronyism... There was so much corruption in Rome that it might as well have just suicided...though technically you are correct, had Rome actually kept its corruption and treasonous people in check: they'd not have fallen as they did. Of course, that's just one opinion...but history books are full of stories of their corruption and traitors...
@@RundfunkerOnline I agree with you, I believe most Europeans are more connected (due to migrating in and out of various hot-spots) than modern historical consensus appears to suggest, that being, we are all very different and separate. the language families themselves hold the key to deciphering the truth of European history imo.
As a ck3 player the roman empire’s mistakes hurt my soul.
The real reason was it wasn’t worth it. Much of Roman territory was just as hostile with difficult terrain and warlike people, but there was actual economic gain to be had there, unlike in Germania.
They did NOT conquer Germania. They only tried to. Mind the difference.
“Germenia” got me off guard 💀
Cuz they got that dog in them
Even later on the vikings became a bodyguard for the Roman's ❤
Befriend your enemies and betray your allies
Germany:"And i took that seriously"
I am happy that Italy did not eat me in that time 😥🫣😂
Why did Rome conquer the world?
This guy: just naming all the countries they fought
Short answer: They were able to conquer Germania once but they were not able to maintain control for multiple reasons (for example the power structure of the tribes were too decentraliced to control them -> a few tribes submit to the empire, some others go into the resistance.
They did conquer Germania, several times, it just cost too much to keep it.
I live in a village in germany they had a base from 70 bc to 79bc, my theory is they had good points, but at 79 bc, versuvius erupted, i think the ash probably blocked the sun here is not much sun anywhere, so the crops from the romans did not grow anymore so they did leave. The barbarian guys did know that smoking meat did conserve it. The romans idk really if they did some art of ham like that.
England and Wales: Why u left me🤨
Also Wallachia
I mean the fact that they once lost 10% of the imperial Army is crazy also even julius caesar himself was unable to fully conquer
And then they became the holy romans
No, we remained Germans, but conquered Rome, since 410.
@@hansmeier3287GAYRMANY😁🇮🇩
Germans became culturaly and religiously romans, although the people at the time probably did not identify themselves as german as this was a name that was well known in the roman world. They were franks and if the ancient stories are believed they share common ancestory as the romans.
Rather the nobility cosplaying as romans beccause the pope preffered them over Byzanz and France. The people rather didnt gave a fuck and called themself germans or what ever their region was called.
Plus the Rhine was easier to defend than open country. The Limes EAST of the Rhine ultimately couldn’t hold whereas the Rhine did. Romans also had swift moving river boats to move troops to problem areas. I am writing this in long-term Roman territory near Speyer, Germany, or what the Romans would have called Noviomagus [Speyer], Germania Superior, WEST of the Rhine and therefore easily defended.
There might be a failed painter there that time also
Calling the romans as subhuman 😂
I come from one of the countries that was never conquered by the Romans. They even built two walls to keep my ancestors out, and Emperor Hadrian's wall marked where the Roman Empire ended.
Actually, the Picts and Caladonians were conquered by the Romans under Legatus Agricola, the difference being that Caledonia was never occupied like Gallia or Britannia, due to the lack of incentive. Also at one point, the Antonine wall marked where the Empire ended, at least for a time
Germania was dirt poor and did not have anything to offer that’s probably the main reason
sad roman fan girl ⬆️
Napoleon couldn't disagree more
in the time of Napoleon was Germany changed.
no big forests
big agriculture
still not fully united
New Generals and Tacticians entering the war board got them tweaking specifically Arminius, Atilla, and Alaric I
On the other hand, Germans easily infiltrate Roman territory.
And that triggered the fall of Rome.
Don't say it easy; it took them almost 3 centuries after Varus's disaster to grow and develop into a respectable force that could conquer the Romans.
By the time that happened, Rome was already in lob term struggles versus the Goths, the Huns and in the East.
@davethompson3326
What I've learnt is that, in order to repel the eastern tribes, Rome hired Germans to watchdog their borders.
As time passed, Germans became large portion of the army.
Eventually,the German commander declared the abjugation of the Roman emperor.
That was the last chapter of one of the greatest empire.
Not really true, the inner Roman crisis in the past 150 years triggered and weakened it.
@@davethompson3326The Goths are a germanic tribe.
It was mainly the landscape. The gorilla tactics of the Germanians also made it difficult for the Romans, who were very good at conventional warfare and sieges.
In the end the Germans where superior in the Grandsheme of things just look at modern Europe😊
This doesn't make sense.
@@henryneubert7798 it does
@@arishemghoul9571 Okay, thanks 👍
Germany is actually way behind in a lot of areas in technology and project management. Their entire public sector is from the Middle Ages.
The Germans were quite funny at the time, they were defeated, massacred, enslaved and forcibly conscripted for centuries, they were superior in nothing, everything they learned they learned From the Romans, there was no currency, there were no written laws, there were huts, there were no roads, they were Primitive, Arminius himself was Roman by education, there is no reason or reason to be proud of that people who were not a people Seeing that there was a tribe and some spanned via the history of the Romans, we can say almost everything and populed Germans coming from Scandivavia or from Asian steps.
It seems that prosperity and wealth have made its course through the south of Europe in the early centuries and has nestled itself upwards throughout the northwest/ northern of Europe.
The Romans were a crazy rich empire and they had all the resources to beat the German tribes…
Rome would have needed a second caesar with an environment similar to what sprouted the first one. a general with loyal troops and incredible military skill, able to singlehandedly fabricate a claim and execute a multi year strategy to subjugate an entire cultural group just as means of advancing in a meritocratic system to allow for his eventual takeover of said system.
That's it
during the imperial era? Exceptional Roman generals like that would have been assassinated long before they even get ahold of a legion. Unless ofcourse if it's the emperor that the praetorians haven't decided to kill yet.
Germanik could make it.
Probely would had caused an early and a much bigger east imigration of the germanics. The slavs also would had developed much more south or even in western asia parts, beccause the east imigration of the germanics would had been much more brutal.
For reference, the germanics temporarly imigrated a territory simular to the Kaiserreich and a good chunk beyond, for example the goths reached into modern Ukrain.
I would imagine the mountains in modern-day Switzerland woulda been a big issue too 😅
ooga booga, germans together strong 🦧
„mE rOmaN bE cArEfuL I can’t beat a bunch of tribes 🤓“
@@lucabo1201Barabars😁🇮🇩
Everyone remember the defeat at Teutoburg forest, Arminius' victory over Varo, but mostly forget the revenge, taken by Germanicus amd Tiberius
We did attempt but someone decide to do le funny stab...also germany wasn't that interesting in term of resource
Ahhaha cope, and nice "we" larper. The Romans are extinct, the great Germanic warriors of the Sciria, Gothia, Vandalia and Lombardia made sure of that.
Something we often struggle to understand from our contemporary viewpoint is how useless land often was back then. People often see a mess of disunited tribes and say "oh why weren't they conquered, it's free land," but that's just it. Land was never in short supply, people were. Vast land without many people or many resources (such as Germania) would be of almost no use to the Romans, not to mention the cost of maintaining control.
Varus, Varus, give me back my legions!
Ah yes, I walk the halls of my small hovel echoing Augustus’s words.
Germanicus proved Rome could conquer Germania, but it was less about whether they could and more about whether they wanted to. The current border was relatively defensible and the actual benefits of controlling Germania were minimal outside of prestige. In hindsight the move to conquer Germania might have paid off, as controlling the region would mitigate the migratory invasions that occasional sprung from Germania and other eastern regions; however, at the time, while migratory invasions were a pain, they weren’t the existential threats by any means.
They could’ve technically conquered it, but governing and sustaining it was untenable so it was deemed not worth conquering. Only defending against from the Rhine, and for future conquests down the line if it becomes worth invading.
@@rhett3185 eh, Gallia didn’t differ much from Germania, and Rome handled it pretty smoothly. There was a sense of Celto-Germanic identity in times of crisis, but their actual national identity was relatively weak when compared to that of the Latins or Greeks; just like the galls, I’d expect some fierce resistance at first, with a couple Vercingetorix-like figures trying in vain to drive Rome out, but it being ultimately quelled after a couple decades of rule. If Rome can manage to hold Germania for 50 or so years, I believe the province would be relatively easy to maintain. Rome had the potential to expand far past their borders in our time, but the status quo of limited expansion set by Augustus and his immediate successors effectively established a semi-permanent Roman border to maintain.
@@bigbo1764 Gallia was much easier to control and it had better and more developed trade networks already in place even before Roman conquest.
Unlike what most people say, germania wasnt anything barbaric like we imagine.
Ceasar said it himself, but covered it up to continue his war effort. But these days due to the romantinisation of rome, mostly in countrys like Italy, spain and America for some reason, these facts are overshadowered by half washed storys about Victory.
Also, such thinks as the roman revange on the leaders durring Teutoburg overshadow often such facts. Starngely people act like as if this was a Roman victory against all of Germania, while most tribes, even when the romans marched threw their territory, had no clue about what happend over the last years further west. In the end a lot of tribes probely didnt even knew about it until infiltrating major roman citys.
To me its funny how people that love rome that much, judge Otakus in the same breath for the same stuff they do them self.
They liked clear borders
"cultural differences". Back then, southern Europe ruled over northern Europe.
Wrong. The Roman and Hellenic languages came from Northern Europe. Culture and civilisation in Europe comes from the Indo-European Aryan strata, which is higher in North Europeans. It’s why North Europe is more advanced.
Northern Europe has been slighlty more advanced only in the last 300 years. And still today Italians and Spanish live 2 years more than Germans on average. Northern Europe is literally the place on Earth with the shortest period of high development. The Egyptian, the Greeks, the Romans were ruling when northern europeans were still hunter-gatherers @BellBeakerBloke
@@BellBeakerBloke lies
@@arishemghoul9571 everything I said was accurate
@@marcoac-sx6lq there’s no such thing as Romans or Greeks without European genes that came from the North
North Europe has been more advanced for 1500 years
I watched 3 documentaries last night on the revenge for Teutumberg forests and Germanicus (ironic name lol) almost conquered Germania but was called back in like 16 or 17 ad in favor of going the diplomatic route
First Reich: Holy Roman Empire
Second Reich: German Empire
Third Reich: Second German Empire
First Reich: 😐
Second Reich:😑
Third Reich:💀
First reich was actually 😄
the third reich was the third german realm, not the second
I’m surprised that they couldn’t break the German Barbarians will but we’re talking about ROME here a nation that has deafeated Carthage Hannibal and more but they can’t even defeat some barbarians I khow the terrain was difficult but still
Terrain is always a huge morale booster. If your forces know the land and have peace of mind they can retreat and regroup easily, it is almost impossible to conquer them. It’s a major reason a lot of barbarians bordering Rome worshipped nature and forests because it protected them in real time unlike Roman Gods who were more abstract and constantly needed priests and sects to tell them how to live. Roman armies retreating was dishonorable and triggered loses in popularity while barbarians retreating was just another Tuesday in their culture that further enhanced trust in their Forests protectors.
Actually they did, the campaigns of Germanicus, revenge for Teutoburg, saw the coalition of Arminius brought to ruin, their lands reduced to ash
It was conquered 😂😂😂😂 otherwise it wouldn't ne called Germania😊😊😊
No we just go to writings and evidence from the Roman’s and Greeks mainly because they write most of the stuff down the Germans didn’t, the name also comes from the Gauls giving it to the Germans not Roman’s
No, Rome never conquered the Germans, but ironically the Germans did conquer Rome, multiple times in fact.
Lombardia was the best italy!
@@Ungehorsamactually, post Teutoburg, Rome did conquerer Germania, but failed to have any long term occupation due to the orders of Emperor Tiberius.
Was Hamburg ever conquered by the romans? It’s seems my hometown Oldenburg was but they didn’t get that far. I live in Hamburg now. My uncle lives in cologne. I think that was Roman city
Just useless area
Actually, Rome conquered Germany for some period of time so your point is wrong they control it just not for a long time but it’s like Mesopotamia you know it wasn’t controlled for all time or like Anatolia - It was controlled like partially only but we still think it’s fully conquered.
Not only that, but another reason was that the Roman military did actually make a lot of money for Rome through conquest and pillaging as was typical for that time but Germania similar to Ireland was just not valuable. It wasn’t really much money there so there was really no point in invading it. It’s not like the Romans needed the territory and there was no money to be made in Germania
another part of the reason why Rome didn't conquer Germania was because of Augustus' will that expressed his wishes for the Roman Empire to not expand past its natural borders that had been achieved during pax augusta, which Tiberius, the succeeding emperor, followed through with. When Germanicus was sweeping through Germania for Arminius, and massacreing the germanian tribes, Tiberius ordered him back.
Fighting Germans for Rome it's like Fighting Amazighs north Africans leading by Carthage... it takes all Roman effort forces and resources ... Rome would never undertake such a reckless act for a poor, uncivilized region lacking any ambition to build a civilized empire. According to their belief, such a region would not pose a direct threat to the empire as long as the empire did not attempt to conquer it. This is in stark contrast to North Africa, led by Carthage, which had boundless ambitions to conquer Europe due to its conflict with Rome and to establish a military and commercial empire that controlled all shores of the Mediterranean from west to east. Therefore, I admire the Roman Empire and how their cunning enabled them to defeat a formidable military and commercial power like the Carthaginian alliance, despite the darker aspects such as slavery and the brutality of the Colosseum.
Correct me if I’m wrong but another large part of Germania tribes is it’s not like 10 tribes or something all working together, no it was like 50 different tribes none of them working together, all different from each other and all operating differently, so it wouldn’t have been one large push, you’d have to take one tribe at a time and they determined it just not worth the effort of the long drawn out campaign, basically conquering that one single territory would have been like 100 different wars
So TREES, FORESTS were the readon--beside warriorness and size and rotten cold weather! At last a fuller picture.
Fierce Resistance is a broad generalization, no Germanic tribes WANTS to be Rome.
The infighting between the Senate during the early days of the Empire (Julius Caesar) just further worsen their ability to expand Roman Influence & has been on a decline since.
This is why we had so much Germanic Legions in Rome, because the Germanic tribesmen WANTS to serve Rome, sure some of them dont, but this alone shows just how complex the situation is.
Battle of Varus was also a big fact why they dont put more effort in it! It was too hard to get it for what they would have get from it ! (The land wasnt really usefull or nice for them, they dont really wanted it).
Massive resources are required to take and hold a hostile area. The empire must be in prime condition to accomplish it.
But even on the cusp of a new aeon, an archetype may spawn offspring - or rather, it may con tinue to change according to its nature and particular mode of time.
Lets not forget that Rome might have taken it during the time of Emperor Tiberius. But he became so afraid of the succeses of Germanicus that he called him back. But he was very succesfull and might have changed world history if he wasnt called back.
From the map it's like they made Mediterranean Sea their own swimming pool.
Romans conquered the alps, deserts in Iberia and Africa, but some trees up north were too much