Rocky's huge titanium fists were no different than two 18-wheeler Mack trucks. He wasn't called Rocky Mack for nothing. He was special. I get tears in my eyes just thinking about him. My god he was special.
Rocky was so strong. He hit a special heavy bag that weighed 600 lbs. He was special. Better than everyone else for sure. That's not all. Everyday he ran 25 miles and did 4000 sit-ups. He was head and shoulders above everyone else. My god he was special. One in a billion. Did i mention he was special.
Rocky ran 25 miles daily for 2555 (7 years) days nonstop. Keep in mind a marathon is 26.2 miles. That's not all. In addition to his daily 25 mile runs he'd also include sprinting uphill backwards and shadowboxed under water for an additional 2 hours. Rocky was superhuman and will forever be my Hero.
Rocky was so strong. He hit a special heavy bag that weighed 600 lbs. He was special. Better than everyone else for sure. That's not all. Everyday he ran 25 miles and did 4000 sit-ups. He was head and shoulders above everyone else. My god he was special. One in a billion. Did i mention he was special.
Best conditioned fighter who ever lived...great heart...power...stamina...chin of iron...ridiculous work rate...hurt you no matter where he hit you...never took a backward step...threw punches in bunches with KO written all over them...broke bone and blood vessels...pain meant nothing...he feared no man...champ from 52 to 56...49-0...43 KO's...a beast in the ring...and class outside of it...put The Rock in with anyone!
Quotes from the book Rocky Marciano: The Rock of his times 2005 author Russell Sullivan "One of the greatest champs ever." - Sonny Liston "Hardest puncher I ever fought." - Joe Louis "The one fighter who might have beaten me." - Muhammad Ali "My manager waited for him to retire before I dared fight him as a heavyweight." - Floyd Patterson The hardest puncher I ever saw in 50 years in boxing." - Don Turner, trainer for Evander Holyfield "Ali wouldn't have tried rope-a-dope on Marciano cause Marciano would have KOd him." - Joe Frazier "Hit harder than anyone I ever fought." - Ezzard Charles "Hit harder than anyone ever." - Jersey Joe Walcott "Like fighting an airplane propeller." - Archie Moore "Trained harder than anyone ever." - Don Turner, trainer "Hit you so hard it jar your kin folk in Africa." - Muhammad Ali "Broke blood vessels in my arm just hitting me. Took weeks for my arm to recover." - Roland LaStarza "One of the hardest punchers who ever lived." - George Foreman If that is not respect, I don't know what is
It's interesting how people who experienced watching him in real time don't hold him in the same high regard as folks later on in spite the multitude of great fighters who came on the scene after he quit (Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Lewis, Vitali, Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson, Wladimir, Ibeabuchi, Frazier, etc). All the professionals, managers, trainers, boxing writers and historians in the 50s, 60s and 70s only rated Rocky #7, #8, #9 and #10 Heavyweight, all-time. Funny how his status rises as fewer people remain who actually covered him when he fought. There's a lot of mythology with Marciano and a lot of selective memory about his career.
A Rocky fan wrote, *"Rocky was not only a credit to the sport of boxing but he was a credit to the human race."* Oh really? Is that why he was dishonorably discharged for felony assault and robbery and, after he quit boxing he abandoned his kids and wife to sleep with thousand and left them penniless. Some credit, he was a disgrace.
Ali fought both Foreman and Liston, and he said that when it came to George he just had to take the hits and wear big George down, in the case of Liston, he simply did not want to get hit at all. So for Ali it was certainly Sonny that hit harder. Foreman trained with Liston after the Olympics, preparing him for pro boxing. George said Sonny was the only man that had ever pushed him backwards with sheer strength alone. He also said that you were always really careful not to make Sonny mad! I think it is pretty safe to say that Sonny Liston hit harder than George Foreman.
37 year old Joe Louis had already been fighting *"17yrs"* with 68 fights and 96 fights before 2 million soldiers during his 4 year military service before facing the 184 lb light heavyweight. *Joe’s speed and punching power had all but evaporated, evidenced by him scoring only 2 KO's in his last 12 fights.* Louis was a sitting duck. By contrast, Marciano was just entering his prime. 40 year old cruiserweight Walcott had already been fighting *"22yrs"* with 68 fights before facing light heavyweight Rocky. Walcott had an abysmal 44% KO's. *Walcott being granted (6) title attempts in a (5½) year span (1947-12-05 to 1953-05-15) proves how shallow the so-called "Heavyweight" division was at that time. And (5) of his title opportunities came immediately after a loss!!!* This is important. *Giant Abe Simon put Walcott into retirement for 4 years 4 months, from 1940-02-12 to 1944-06-07.* Walcott wasn't even remotely prime when he fought Rocky. *Marciano himself said Walcott was only 90% @ 'The Marciano Tapes' #3.* Walcott's most notable victories include wins over light heavyweight Charles and light heavyweight Maxim. Charles lost 25 times and Maxim lost 29 times. *Walcott lost (20) times and was KO'd (6) times.* Light heavyweight Ezzard Charles had already been fighting *"15yrs"* with 95 fights before facing light heavyweight Rocky. Charles had the lowest ever 42% KO's. *Charles was factually showing traces of Lou Gehrig's disease against Walcott in 1951.* It's in Ezzard's biography 'Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life' by William Dettloff. *Charles lost (25) times and was KO'd (7) times.* 42 year old light heavyweight Archie Moore had already been fighting *"20yrs"* with 178 fights before facing light heavyweight Rocky. Archie said, *"Rocky Marciano was about 15 years younger than I was."* --@ Archie Moore Talks 2007TBears Wouldn't that put grandfather Archie in his mid 40's? *Moore Lost (23) times and was KO'd (7) times.* 179 lb light heavyweight Rocky Marciano only fought *"8yrs"* before he abruptly quit during his prime at only 31yrs of age. If you eliminate his secretive debut fight under the alias Rocky Mackjeanne, he actually fought *"7yrs"* bcz there was a 15 month gap between his 1st and 2nd fights. Read Mike Stanton to understand Rocky Mackjeanne vs. Les Epperson in Holyoke. Rocky Mackjeanne was shortened to Rocky Mack just before the fight. *You have to respect every competitor for stepping into the ring but after studying all of his opponents, and who they fought, my gut instinct also says light heavyweight Rocky Marciano is one of the biggest frauds in "Heavyweight" boxing history.*
Joe Louis' 8 fight winning streak which helped him become #1 ranked contender before he faced light heavyweight Rocky. Below is the (6) boxers ring-worn and washed (as evidenced by scoring only 2 KO's in his last 12 fights) Louis beat: #1) 196 lb Cesar Brian had an abysmal 36% KO's. Brian's career record of 49 wins 11 losses looks okay until ya see 25 of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians. #2) 191 lb Freddie Beshore had an abysmal 24% KO's. His career record was 28 wins 10 losses. 5' 9" Beshore was on a 4-fight losing streak before he faced Joe. *Why would Joe even consider fighting someone who had just lost 4 fights?* #3) 187 lb Omelio Agramonte. *Oh wow, oh my, i watched their entire fight and Joe looked terrible, absolutely terrible. What was Joe thinking? He should have stayed retired.* Omelio looked as if he only weighed 165 lbs. #4) 194 lb Andy Walker had an abysmal 17% KO's. His career record was 18 wins 20 losses. *It's clear as day what's going on here.* #5) 188 lb Omelio Agramonte -- *Why Twice? We all know why!* #6) 190 lb Lee Savold. Even the announcer said, *"Joe Louis reflexes are but a memory."* These two should have been retired. *They just pushed Louis through towards Marciano so everyone could fill their pockets with $$$.* Savold had a career 45 losses and was KO'd 12 times. #7) 197 lb Cesar Brian -- *Why Twice? We all know why!* #8) Jimmy Bivins weighed 151 vs. Morgan who weighed 146 in 1940. 5' 8.8" (1.75 m) 180 lb light heavyweight Bivins (vs. Louis) had an abysmal 27% KO's. *Yes Bivins was Hall of Famer. But he was a Hall of Famer @ light heavyweight, not Heavyweight. This is the "Heavyweight" division we're talking about right?* *Talk about bum-of-the-month-club WOW. It was obviously a predetermined carefully hand-picked set-up.* Boxing-elites, Italian-mafioso, and the IRS really needed Joe to be ranked #1 inorder to get their Louis vs. Marciano $$-SHOW-$$. The only loyalty the Italian-mob had was to $$$. Hey, they took 50% of Marciano's earnings and all ticket sales, all in all $2 Million. $2 Million in 1955 is equivalent to $21 Million today. *In May of 1950, the IRS finished a full audit of Louis's past returns and announced, that with interest and penalties, he owed the government more than $500,000. Louis had no choice but to return to the ring. The Louis camp negotiated a deal with the IRS under which 36yr old Louis would come out of retirement, with all his net proceeds going to the IRS. After boxing Joe ended up in the pro wrestling circuit and they still took his money. But that gig finished when Cowboy Rocky Lee lunged onto him with both feet, his boots colliding with Louis' torso. The crash cracked three of his ribs. It left him with a cardiac contusion and officially ended his stint as a wrestler. Children used to send him one dollar in the mail. In his biography he said a child walked up and handed him a dime. When Joe was broken physically and mentally the IRS finally stopped collecting. He lived with friends until he died.*
Marciano was named the 4th greatest Heavyweight of all-time by The Ring in 1994. Marciano was named the 7th greatest puncher of all-time by The Ring in 1997. Marciano was named the 9th greatest fighter of the 20th century by The Ring in 1999.
"I have always adhered to two principles. The first one is to train hard and get in the best possible physical condition. The second is to forget all about the other fellow until you face him in the ring and the bell sounds for the fight." -- Rocky Marciano
Quotes from the book Rocky Marciano: The Rock of his times 2005 author Russell Sullivan "One of the greatest champs ever." - Sonny Liston "Hardest puncher I ever fought." - Joe Louis "The one fighter who might have beaten me." - Muhammad Ali "My manager waited for him to retire before I dared fight him as a heavyweight." - Floyd Patterson The hardest puncher I ever saw in 50 years in boxing." - Don Turner, trainer for Evander Holyfield "Ali wouldn't have tried rope-a-dope on Marciano cause Marciano would have KOd him." - Joe Frazier "Hit harder than anyone I ever fought." - Ezzard Charles "Hit harder than anyone ever." - Jersey Joe Walcott "Like fighting an airplane propeller." - Archie Moore "Trained harder than anyone ever." - Don Turner, trainer "Hit you so hard it jar your kin folk in Africa." - Muhammad Ali "Broke blood vessels in my arm just hitting me. Took weeks for my arm to recover." - Roland LaStarza "One of the hardest punchers who ever lived." - George Foreman If that is not respect, I don't know what is
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less. Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less. Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less. Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less. Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less. Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents. Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck. Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-level resume. Problem is he was a natural middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. I thought this was the Heavyweight division? Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight champion? Even Marciano's best 3 opponents; Walcott-Charles-Moore lost (68) times and were KO'd (20) times. Marciano never faced an elite fighter in his prime. Name one, just one prime elite fighter Marciano beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Walcott Charles Moore were in their prime when they fought Marciano? Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs
During the deepest era in Light heavyweight history Gold Medalist Undisputed "Undefeated" HOF ATG GOAT Michael Spinks beat Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, and knocked out Yaqui Lopes and Marvin Johnson. Which was not easy to do in their primes. Michael also beat Heavyweight champion Larry Holmes to win the title, who was also undefeated. Michael Spinks is the most accomplished Light heavyweight in history. Light heavyweight Charles Lost (25) times and was KOd (7) times. Light heavyweight Moore Lost (23) times and was KOd (7) times. Can someone please explain why Charles and Moore ranks higher? Could it be because they fought little Marciano which automatically makes them immortal, even though they lost ""FORTY-EIGHT"" times and were ""KTFO-FOURTEEN"" times? All's i know is Michaels "0" at Light heavyweight holds "no" clout. Why? Because of his ""ONE"" loss vs. Mike Tyson? Don't make sense. There has to be a reason and I think we all know what that reason is!?
Liston expert, Paul Gallender, has solved the five major mysteries surrounding The Bear in his 2012 biography, 'Sonny Liston - The Real Story Behind the Ali-Liston Fights'. The author's 40+ years of research provide boxing fans with definitive answers to the five most asked questions about The Bear’s life and career: 1) When was Sonny born? 2) Was he murdered? If so, who did it, how, and why? 3) Was the Liston/Clay fight on the level? 4) Why did Sonny throw the Ali fight? 5) Was Sonny Liston as bad a person as the media said he was? The short answers are: 1) 1919 or earlier. 2) Yes, by mobsters, with a heroin overdose, because he didn’t throw the Wepner fight. 3) Yes. Footage from the event shows Ali in the ring asking his entourage, 'Did I hit him?' . Ali also told Nation of Islam minister Abdul Rahman that Liston 'laid down'. 4) So his wife and son wouldn’t be killed. 5) No. Sonny was a good man. Liston, the son of a tenant farmer, served two long terms in prison, where he is said to have learned to box. Although he gave his birth year as 1932, there is evidence that he might have begun his ring career as early as 1934, at the age of 17, under the name of Charles (“Sailor”) Liston. If that is true, he was 45 years old when he won the championship. -- Encyclopedia Britannica "That he fought in 1934 is no secret - even the Encyclopedia Britannica acknowledges it." -- Paul Gallender His sister, who he was extremely close to, and who remembered his birth - he was much younger than she was - said he was born the year after the Great War (WW1). Which would have made him 44 when he fought Ali the first time. watch this vid/documentary --(According To Gallender Sonny Liston Was 44 Yrs Old When He Fought Ali) --from Retro Boxing & Documentaries
Floyd Patterson wrote in Victory Over Myself: *“I loved Cus, but he was not going to let me fight the best because he was afraid I was going to lose. I decided a Champion had to face everyone, even if he loses, and I felt better despite the losses."* Ironically, even though he lost to Liston and never regained the title, he is still ranked in the top 20 heavyweights of all time precisely because he fired Cus, and fought real contenders, rolling up a record worthy of the Hall of Fame. After he fired Cus, Floyd faced: Muhammad Ali Sonny Liston Eddie Machen Henry Cooper Jimmy Ellis Oscar Bonavena Jerry Quarry George Chuvalo *"I decided a Champion had to face everyone, even if he loses."* (SOMETHING MARCIANO NEVER DID!!!!) *Marciano knew he'd have to eventually confront Cleveland Williams, Johansson, Patterson, Liston, Machen, Folley, Valdez, Cooper, Miteff, London, Mildenberger, Jones, Terrell, Chuvalo, Clay, Bonavena, Quarry, Martin, and Ellis just to name a few.* We could-a found out how Rocky would have done against all these guys had he not Up-n-Quit so abruptly during his prime after a measley (7) years while everyone else was fighting (15) to (25) years! For Pete's sake he was only 31 his last fight.
Fourteen months after Marciano fights Moore he calls the Patterson vs. Moore match ringside. *Marciano is flabbergasted at Patterson's blinding speed.* Patterson simply walked through everything Moore threw without blinking and KO’d Archie in 5. *Patterson destroyed Moore a lot easier and a lot sooner with less punches than Marciano did.* Marciano quickly realizes it would be pointless to make a comeback even though every sportswriter across America is begging him to come out of retirement. *Patterson's era was easily 5x better than Marciano's era.* Cleveland Williams, Johansson, Patterson, Liston, Machen, Folley, Valdez, Cooper, Miteff, London, Mildenberger, Jones, Terrell, Chuvalo, Clay, Bonavena, Quarry, Martin, and Ellis just to name a few would have simply walked through Walcott, Charles, Moore, Layne and LaStarza. Patterson himself *very easily* walked through Moore!
Light heavyweight Archie Moore started out fighting dozens of welterweight and middleweight nobodies. His record is so padded it's ridiculous. He'd be destroyed against light heavyweights Beterbiev, Bivol, Michael Spinks, Bernard Hopkins, Roy Jones Jr and Bob Foster. When Archie was middleweight how would he have done against other middleweights Sugar Ray Robinson, Carlos Monzon and Marvin Hagler? Heck, little low power Charles beat him 3 times, little Patterson obliterated him, and little Rocky smashed him. Every time Moore stepped-up in competition he got KO'd.
Muhammad Ali put Rocky Marciano in the hospital for an entire week after their ridiculous choreographed ballet sparing match. *"Rocky entered the hospital for dehydration, torn bicep and exhaustion."* - Peter Marciano .... I've seen a lot of Getty and Fight City images and Rocky looked absolutely terrible. He was only 45 years old, wearing a wig, had zero muscle tone and fat was hanging everywhere. That's not all. You could clearly see Ali was at least 6" taller! Don't believe for a second that Rocky was 5' 10". Rocky was actually 5' 9" (1.75 meters), according to Rocky Marciano's biographer John Cameron; his reach was 67 inches (1.70 meters)--incredibly short for Heavyweight; by way of comparison today's Bantamweights (115-118 lbs) average 67.7". There is no question that little Rocky was superbly conditioned by the standards of the day; however, at his average fighting weight of 183 lbs/83 kg, between 178 and 188, he was not incredibly lean and he was not dehydrated; he was, in other words, a natural light heavyweight.
Why didn't little 178 lb light heavy to 186 lb tiny cruiser with tiny flyweight reach Rocky clean out his division like Sonny Liston, Ali and Lennox did? *Little Rocky ducked the great Marty Marshall, Harold Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Bivins, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith, and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard just to name a few?* For 9 years from 1955 to 1964 Liston decimated his division. *There were 14 fighters at the top during Sonny’s time who flatly refused to fight him:* Hall of Fame undisputed Heavyweight Champion Joe Frazier (Joe accepted, his management said hell no, and vetoed it). Hall of Fame undisputed Heavyweight Champion Ingemar Johannson refused to fight Sonny. Bob Foster (light heavyweight Champion but fought for the Heavyweight title twice) refused. WBA Heavyweight Champion Ernie Terrell refused to fight Sonny. WBA Heavyweight Champion Jimmy Ellis refused to fight Sonny. Bob Baker declined too. So did Henry Cooper, who said: “I don't even want to see him walking down the street, let alone in a gym!” Karl Mildenberger declined as well. Jerry Quarry (his father refused to make the fight). Tommy Jackson refused. Doug Jones did too. Harold Carter did as well. So did Joe Erskine and Bob Cleroux. *That is 14 top fighters, who refused to fight Sonny Liston, including 4 Champions.* *Sonny is the most ducked fighter in boxing history. On the other hand little Rocky was "'NEVER'" ducked!!! Moore, Walcott and LaStarza repeatedly petitioned to fight Rocky for years!!! EVERYONE wanted to fight little Rocky bcz he couldn't hurt you the way Sonny could!!! All Facts!!! Rocky was a Quitter!!!*
Any *boxer that's on an undefeated 30+ or 40+ fight winning streak (especially during the 50s) has been brilliantly managed and well protected.* Italian Mafia soldier Frankie Carbo, the most powerful promoter in boxing, had his leash-n-collar around little Rocky. 25-0-Marciano fought *F-LEVEL* nobodies until he met 37-0-LaStarza who also fought *F-LEVEL* nobodies. After their fight Marciano continues with more *F-LEVEL* competition bcz his handlers were afraid to put him in with anyone who could pose much of a threat after coming so close to tasting defeat. Little Marciano's next opponent was *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman who had lost 8 of his last 9 fights. Everybody knew it was a gimme fight for an undefeated fighter. Then there was *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry who had a career record of 71 wins 68 losses. Marciano's 32nd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Keene Simmons who had a career 8 wins 8 losses. Marciano's 33rd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell who had a career 4 wins 17 losses. Marciano's 34th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Art Henri who had a career 13 wins 14 losses. Marciano's 35th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate who had a career 11 wins 14 losses. It's clear as day Mafia Boss Frankie Carbo and his associate Al Weill *padded and cherry-picked* Marciano's resume his entire *(but very short)* career. Marciano's career motto was: *"Fight No One and Quit While You Are Ahead"* Lewis Watson, the boxing writer and historian, speaks of the artificial puffing up of records against cherry picked competition, saying: *“Unbeaten records are fairly padded; you have to look if there are any notable victories coming against first rate competition."* BUT but many would say Marciano only defended his title against the #1 ranked contender. *Well that's very noble and honorable,, yet meaningless when those six #1 ranked opponents were 'Mediocre' at best.*
Get the hell outta here. Rocco was a beast that was tougher and could punch with both hands and never tired, he was5,'11 and could,ve put on more weight but around 185 no one could beat him and the big heavyweights would,nt land a flush punch on him and if they did he.could handle it.
Archie Moore went on a 21 fight streak before he faced Rocky Marciano. Moore's numbers may not lie, but numbers minus context can easily lead to distortion. So let's examine those 21 opponents (not in order). Bobo Olson 170 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS? Clinton Bacon 170 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS? Harold Johnson 170 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS? Harold Johnson (twice) 170 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS? Joey Maxim 174 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS? Joey Maxim (twice) 174 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS? Joey Maxim (thrice) 174 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS? Dogomar Martinez 175 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS? Sonny Andrews 177 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS? Rinaldo Ansaloni 178 lb WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS? Jimmy Slade 180 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS? Bob Dunlap 180 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS? Clarence Henry 184 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS? Toxie Hall 188 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS? Bert Whitehurst 186 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS? Frank Buford 199 lbs had a career record 22 wins 32 losses (F-level) with (two) 2% KOs Al Spaulding 210 lbs had a career 25 wins 27 losses (F-level) with an abysmal 24% KOs Leonard Dugan 209 lbs had a career 6 wins 2 losses (D-level) with an abysmal 25% KOs Bob Baker 209 lbs had a career 51 wins 16 losses (D-level) with an abysmal 29% KOs Nino Valdes 209 lbs had a career 48 wins 18 losses (D-level) with a low-power 51% KOs Nino Valdes 209 lbs (twice)
Floyd Patterson wrote in Victory Over Myself: “I loved Cus, but he was not going to let me fight the best because he was afraid I was going to lose. I decided a Champion had to face everyone, even if he loses, and I felt better despite the losses." Ironically, even though he lost to Liston and never regained the title, he is still ranked in the top 20 heavyweights of all time precisely because he fired Cus, and fought real contenders, rolling up a record worthy of the Hall of Fame. After he fired Cus, Floyd faced: Muhammad Ali Sonny Liston Eddie Machen Henry Cooper Jimmy Ellis Oscar Bonavena Jerry Quarry George Chuvalo "I decided a Champion had to face everyone, even if he loses" --SOMETHING MARCIANO NEVER DID!!! Marciano knew he'd have to confront Patterson, Machen, Folley, Valdez, Johansson, Cooper, Miteff, London, Mildenberger, Liston, Williams, Jones, Terrell, Chuvalo, Clay, Bonavena, Quarry, Martin and Ellis just to name a few. And that's the exact reason he decides to never make a comeback because he knew better. He tries to make lame excuses like, "I just didn't have the feeling or desire anymore." Give me a break.
Most opponents before the fight, of marciano dismissed him as a crude and limited opponent and were full of confidence of defeating him ,......but after the fight they realised how tough , hard and resilient and great a fighter he just really was, ...if eve there was,.... a more durable , tough persistent and hard hitting fighter than rocky ,...I have yet to see him ,....he simply outfought and outlasted everyone who.stepped into.ring the ring with him.....a true great
*5' 9" 184 lbs lmao.* So undefeated 245 lb Ibeabuchi wasn't durable, tough and persistent? Holmes and Ali wasn't durable, tough and persistent? Holyfield, Tua and Frazier wasn't durable, tough and persistent? How about Zhang, Foreman and the Klitschko brothers? *5' 9" 184 lbs lmao.*
Ike Ibeabuchi vs. David Tua threw 91 punches in round one according to CompuBox, 91 again in round two, and 95 in round three, obscene numbers for a Heavyweight. By the final bell, Ibeabuchi and Tua had combined to throw 1,730 punches, breaking the Heavyweight record set by Ali vs. Frazier III, when they combined for 1,591 punches - in 14 rounds, two rounds more than Ibeabuchi and Tua had to work with. Ike threw 975 punches, the most ever by a single Heavyweight. Both fighters had a brawling fight style, they were both 24 years old at the time of this epic battle and they were both undefeated going in to this fight. 226 lb Tua's record stood at 27-0 23 KO's while 236 lb Ibeabuchi's record stood at 16-0 12 KO's. This fight is the stuff that dreams were made of. Two Super Heavyweight warriors stood toe to toe exhibiting exceptional heart and endurance. Both boxers threw bombs and neither took a backward step. 21 months later, 245 lb Ibeabuchi confirmed that he was indeed the best up and coming Super Heavyweight on the planet by knocking out undefeated 26-0 quick and slick southpaw Chris Byrd. Ibeabuchi was now 20-0 with 15 KO's and only 26 years old. (Byrd would later become two-time Heavyweight champion). No Heavyweight of his generation possessed more ability. He was a prodigy. He had amazing power, fierce determination and no fear of anybody. He believed that he was the King, that nobody could beat him. He’d walk into the ring and you would almost have this vision of a bull coming at a matador with the steam coming out of the nostrils. *To claim Rocky Marciano's endurance was better than everyone else's endurance is not only absurd but laughable. And Super Heavyweights Ibeabuchi/Tua just proved it when they threw a record breaking 1,730 haymakers. The way Rocky fans go on and on about how he's the best conditioned fighter that ever lived is absolute nonsense. So Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Marvin Hagler, Manny Pacquiao, David Tua and Ike Ibeabuchi never trained? What a Joke. Little 184lb Rocky gets flattened by the 245lb prodigy Ibeabuchi 10 out of 10 times and that's not debatable!*
The International Boxing Club Of New York was the dominant promotional power in boxing. It controlled the sport at Madison Square Garden and other major arenas. It had contracts for regularly-scheduled fights on the emerging medium of television. And it had links to organized crime; most notably through Frankie Carbo. “Carbo,” Russell Sullivan explains, “established a well-organized centralized system of control over boxing. The system featured scores of managers who operated as front men for Carbo. Once a promising fighter arrived on the scene, one of Carbo’s managers would muscle in on his ownership. Fear and violence were the linchpins of Carbo’s system and the bedrock of his power. Directly or indirectly, he controlled scores of judges, officials, managers, promoters, and fighters. His power became such that no big match was made or title awarded without his acquiescence.”
Marciano could train 1000 years but prime Ali would still crush him. Since Marciano struggled with light heavyweight Charles who was a good boxer, but was smaller weaker and slower than Ali, what makes you think he'd do better against Ali?
In my opinion Rocky Marciano was greater than Mohammed Ali, Rocky was probably the greatest heavyweight of all time. An unrelenting battle tank with gloves who never got tired, Rocky is my favourite heavyweight boxer 😊.
In boxing, having an unbeaten record is considered a very significant achievement. Boxers with unbeaten records are highly regarded and seen as the best in the sport. Rocky Marciano's *"0"* meant everything. Without it he wouldn't be ranked top-20. Only *"ONE"* loss would have changed little Rocky's entire boxing legacy. Combined Wilder and Joshua only have 5 losses which is why they're being thrown under the bus. Wins and losses define a boxer. If Fury or Usyk attains a single loss their chances for top-10 will immediately vanish. Since so much emphasis is put on the perfect record and/or losses can someone please explain *why* Rocky's opponents CHARLES, WALCOTT, MOORE, SAVOLD, LOWRY, LAYNE, COCKELL, WILSON, SHKOR, WALLS, HENRI, SIMMONS, EATMAN, MUSCATO AND BESHORE *LOST ((411)) TIMES* AND THAT'S PERFECTLY FINE??? Charles Lost (25) times Walcott Lost (20) times Moore Lost (23) times Savold Lost (45) times Lowry Lost (68) times Layne Lost (17) times Cockell Lost (14) times Wilson Lost (27) times Shkor Lost (19) times Walls Lost (41) times Henri Lost (29) times Simmons (22) times Eatman (21) times Muscato (23) times Beshore (17) times *(and many more with double digit losses,, the list is too long)* WHY DIDN'T ALL MARCIANO OPPONENTS HAVE *""ZERO""* LOSSES IF THEY WERE SO GREAT??? if *"0"* is the only thing that matters then little Marciano's opponents were horrendous.. correct??? *It is worth noting that an unbeaten record does not mean that a boxer is the best, as there are many factors that can impact a fighter's record, such as the level of competition they have faced. There is no way to argue objectively that Marciano is the greatest. And that is due to not only his lackluster competition, but his wars against them.* *Can you imagine what Foreman in his prime would have done to little Charles and little Moore??? Is there anyone that Marciano beat that Ibeabuchi wouldn’t have beaten in a more convincing fashion??? If Foreman or Ibeabuchi fought Marciano the bookmakers would make Foreman and Ibeabuchi at least a -350 favorite.*
It's interesting how people who experienced watching Marciano in real time don't hold him in the same high regard as folks later on in spite the multitude of great fighters who came on the scene after he quit (Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, Klitschko's, etc.). There's a lot of mythology with Marciano and a lot of selective memory about his career. He was brilliantly managed to preserve his undefeated record. But the reality is heart and determination can only get you so far when you're sorely lacking in the physical tools the other greats have. Americans love to glamorize the underdog who gets it done in spite of their limitation, just look at the success of Stallone and his Rocky movie franchise, the movie Rudy, Hoosiers, etc. It is also interesting how the same people who want to consider Rocky the greatest Heavyweight because he was undefeated are reluctant to consider Mayweather the greatest pound for pound. Why is that? It's just flat lazy to look at 49-0 and conclude that he must be the best ever. Based on that, then you MUST consider Floyd Mayweather the greatest pound for pound fighter of all-time since he's 50-0,, right?
Mayweather was named "Fighter of the Decade" for the 2010s by the Boxing Writers Association of America (BWAA), a two-time winner of The Ring magazine's Fighter of the Year award (1998 and 2007), a three-time winner of the BWAA Fighter of the Year award (2007, 2013, and 2015), and a six-time winner of the Best Fighter ESPY Award (2007-2010, 2012-2014). In 2016, ESPN ranked him the greatest boxer, pound for pound, of the last 25 years. As of May 2021, BoxRec ranks him the greatest boxer of all time, pound for pound. Many sporting news and boxing websites, including The Ring, Sports Illustrated, ESPN, BoxRec, Fox Sports, and Yahoo! Sports, ranked Mayweather as the best pound-for-pound boxer in the world twice in a span of ten years. Since the existence of CompuBox, Mayweather is the most accurate puncher among professional boxers, having the highest plus-minus ratio in recorded boxing history. He has a record of 26 consecutive wins in world title fights (10 by KO), 23 wins (9 KOs) in lineal title fights, 24 wins (7 KOs) against former or current world titlists, 12 wins (3 KOs) against former or current lineal champions, and 5 wins (1 KO) against International Boxing Hall of Fame inductees. He was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame in the class of 2021. Mayweather is one of the most lucrative pay-per-view attractions of all time, in any sport. He topped the Forbes and Sports Illustrated lists of the 50 highest-paid athletes of 2012 and 2013, and the Forbes list again in both 2014 and 2015, as the highest-paid athlete in the world. In 2006, he founded his own boxing promotional firm, Mayweather Promotions, after leaving Bob Arum's Top Rank. He has generated approximately 24 million PPV buys and $1.67 billion in revenue throughout his career, surpassing the likes of former top PPV attractions including Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis and Oscar De La Hoya. In 2018, he was the highest-paid athlete in the world, with total earnings, including endorsements, of $285 million, according to Forbes. In November, 2021, Sportico released an all-time athlete earnings list, in which Mayweather ranked no. 6 of all time, totaling an inflation-adjusted $1.2 billion in his career.
Muhammad Ali is the only boxer to be named The Ring magazine Fighter of the Year six times, and was involved in more Ring "Fight of the Year" bouts than any other fighter. He was inducted into the Hall of Fame in its first year and held wins over seven other Hall of Fame inductees. Ali appeared on the cover of Sports Illustrated on 38 different occasions, second only to Michael Jordan's 46. He also appeared on the cover of Time Magazine 5 times, the most of any athlete. Ali was crowned Sportsman of the Century by Sports Illustrated and was named Athlete of the Century by USA Today. He was presented with the Presidential Citizens Medal by Clinton and received the Presidential Medal of Freedom from Bush. In 2015, Sports Illustrated renamed its Sportsman Legacy Award to the Sports Illustrated's Muhammad Ali Legacy Award. In June 2016, an amendment to the US draft laws were named after Ali, a proposal to eliminate the Selective Service System. The Muhammad Ali Boxing Reform Act was passed in 2000, to protect the rights and welfare of boxers in the United States. As a world champion boxer and pop culture icon, Muhammad Ali was the subject of numerous creative works including books, films, music, video games, TV shows, and other. Muhammad Ali was often dubbed the world's "most famous" person in the media. Several of his fights were watched by an estimated 2 billion viewers between 1974 and 1980, and his lighting of the torch at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics was watched by an estimated 3.5 billion viewers. He also wrote several bestselling books about his career, including The Greatest: My Own Story and The Soul of a Butterfly. When We Were Kings, a 1996 documentary about the Rumble in the Jungle, won the Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature. The 2001 biopic Ali garnered a Best Actor Oscar nomination for Will Smith for his portrayal of Ali. In 2002, Ali was honored with a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame for his contributions to the entertainment industry. His star is the only one to be mounted on a vertical surface, out of deference to his request that the name Muhammad-not be walked upon. Documentary filmmaker Ken Burns created the four-part documentary film Muhammad Ali, spanning over eight hours on Ali's life. Burns worked on the film from early 2016 and it was released in September 2021 on PBS. Dave Zirin, who watched an 8-hour rough cut of this documentary, called it "utterly outstanding" and said "the footage they found will blow minds."
44 Marciano opponents: We see their *entire-CAREER* record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers *complete resume* gives a more *accurate* evaluation how good, or how bad they are. Professional boxers can *easily* be *evaluated* using US school grades *A, B, C, D, and F.* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.* Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.* Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good *B-LEVEL* resume. Problem is *he was a natural middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight champion?* Even Marciano's *best 3 opponents Walcott-Charles-Moore lost (68) times and were KO'd (20) times.* Marciano never faced an elite fighter in his prime. *Name one, just one prime elite fighter Marciano beat?* Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. *Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Walcott Charles Moore were in their prime when they fought Marciano?* *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0 *WAY TOO MANY HOMELESS WALK-IN F-LEVEL BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR EASY $$$ OR BEING FORCED TO BY THE SICILIAN UNDERWORLD THAT CONTROLLED EVERY SINGLE FACET OF BOXING DURING THE 1950s* *EVEN LITTLE ROCKY HAD SICILIAN MAFIA BOSS CARBO IN HIS BACK POCKET PROTECTING HIM BECAUSE THEY WERE MAKING MILLIONS THROUGH HIM* *THEY DIDN'T LITERALLY CONTROL HIM BUT THEY DID TAKE 60% OF ALL HIS EARNINGS AND VERY CAREFULLY PADDED HIS RECORD AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE* The *entire* eastern seaboard was *Italian,* it was *all Italian.* Even the commissioner of boxing was Italian. Al Weill, Rocky's *mafioso manager* and *matchmaker* at the Garden *took* 50% and *all ticket sales* which pushed it closer to *60%.* Marciano had *no choice* but to *comply* or *no contract.* Enormous criminal empires had been built on the supply of illegal liquor during the Prohibition era. *Italian* Al Capone’s the most infamous among them. When prohibition came to an end in 1933, after more than a decade of lucrative and bloody endeavour for the Mob, *they needed* something *new.* Access to the machinery of *boxing,* a wilfully unfettered anarchy proved remarkably easy to acquire. *Boxing was now fertile ground for the Mafia.* *They controlled it all,* from the *trainers* and *managers* to the reporting *journalists,* with a combination of *intimidation* and financial backing ensuring *everybody* the mob *wanted* was under *their control.* *THE DAY AFTER RETIREMENT HE IMMEDIATELY ABANDONED HIS KIDS AND WIFE TO CONNECT WITH HIS UNDERWORLD FRIENDS WHO HELPED HIM START HIS LOANSHARKING BUSINESS*
I quite enjoyed the 100 Greatest Heavyweight series, and it got me thinking about how nice a boost "Time" tends to give to a fighters ranking. Rocky Marciano's All-Time ranking in 1962 " In December 1962, a Ring magazine poll of 40 boxing experts had Jack Dempsey rated the #1 Heavyweight of All-Time, with Joe Louis 2nd, Jack Johnson 3rd and Marciano 7th." In 1971 " In 1971, Nat Fleischer, boxing's most famous historian and also editor and founder of Ring magazine , named Marciano as the All-Time 10th Greatest Heavyweight Champion." But by 1998, despite the intervening years producing the likes of Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Klitschko's et al, " In 1998, Ring named Marciano as the 6th Greatest Heavyweight Champion ever." We float around to 2005, and " In 2005, Marciano was named the 5th Greatest Heavyweight of All-Time by the International Boxing Research Organization." We skip to the modern day, and he's just been bumped up to 3rd. Will he one day be Greater than Ali? Just find it an interesting aspect of boxing, that "0" carries a-lot of clout. Rocky fans always use his "0" as their main argument to prop him up. I suggest you research Marciano's opponents, analyze their records, review who he beat. For example have you even bothered to look at the guys LaStarza beat and their records before fighting Marciano? And regarding cherry picking quotes praising Marciano, you honestly don't think I could find twice as many narratives about the greatness of Prime Louis or Prime Ali or Prime Foreman or Prime Holmes or Prime Lennox or Prime Vitali or Prime Tyson or Prime Fury or Prime Ibeabuchi or Prime Frazier etcetera. I don't have a problem if Marciano is your favorite fighter, but you're heading down a slippery slope if you're trying to make the case for him being the best "Heavyweight" ever.
During the deepest era in Light heavyweight history Gold Medalist Undisputed "Undefeated" HOF ATG GOAT Michael Spinks beat Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, and knocked out Yaqui Lopes and Marvin Johnson. Which was not easy to do in their primes. Michael also beat Heavyweight champion Larry Holmes to win the title, who was also undefeated. Michael Spinks is the most accomplished Light heavyweight in history. Light heavyweight Charles Lost (25) times and was KOd (7) times. Light heavyweight Moore Lost (23) times and was KOd (7) times. Can someone please explain why Charles and Moore ranks higher? Could it be because they fought little Marciano which automatically makes them immortal, even though they lost ""FORTY-EIGHT"" times and were ""KTFO-FOURTEEN"" times? All's i know is Michaels "0" at Light heavyweight holds "no" clout. Why? Because of his ""ONE"" loss vs. Mike Tyson? Don't make sense. There has to be a reason and I think we all know what that reason is!?
Gypsy King Fury would keep little white Rocky at arm's length and force him back whenever he felt crowded. He'd jab, turn and bewilder him for as long as wanted, and if Fury felt so inclined, he'd walk him down Kronk style and smash out a stoppage. And none of this, "if he can't reach his head he'll go to the body", either. That's just bull****. Fury's lead would keep Marciano too far away as is. He ain't getting the opportunities to impose his workrate and definitely doesn't hit hard enough to stop him. Fury jabs him into oblivion. Heck, Fury can land 4 or 5 jabs a round and win the round. King Fury wins. Anyway he chooses.
I feel sorry for you, just like people who believe in god, there is no proof, rocky never lost, so you can't prove he would have ever lost little boy, tell your worthless mother she made a mistake
Quotes from the book Rocky Marciano: The Rock of his times 2005 author Russell Sullivan "One of the greatest champs ever." - Sonny Liston "Hardest puncher I ever fought." - Joe Louis "The one fighter who might have beaten me." - Muhammad Ali "My manager waited for him to retire before I dared fight him as a heavyweight." - Floyd Patterson The hardest puncher I ever saw in 50 years in boxing." - Don Turner, trainer for Evander Holyfield "Ali wouldn't have tried rope-a-dope on Marciano cause Marciano would have KOd him." - Joe Frazier "Hit harder than anyone I ever fought." - Ezzard Charles "Hit harder than anyone ever." - Jersey Joe Walcott "Like fighting an airplane propeller." - Archie Moore "Trained harder than anyone ever." - Don Turner, trainer "Hit you so hard it jar your kin folk in Africa." - Muhammad Ali "Broke blood vessels in my arm just hitting me. Took weeks for my arm to recover." - Roland LaStarza "One of the hardest punchers who ever lived." - George Foreman If that is not respect, I don't know what is
Marciano was named the 4th greatest Heavyweight of all-time by The Ring in 1994. Marciano was named the 7th greatest puncher of all-time by The Ring in 1997. Marciano was named the 9th greatest fighter of the 20th century by The Ring in 1999.
I don't think people quite understand why so many people love Rocky. Sure, He's undefeated, but people love Him because He was, and still is, a Hero to all people.
@@user-wi9se5ll3j I would agree. Archie was 41 years old. Jersey Joe was 39. Both had about 20 losses each. Joe Louis was 38 and had retired for two years prior. He came back into the ring to pay IRS taxes.
When "The President" Nigerian Ike Ibeabuchi met "The Tuamanator" Samoan David Tua the Nigerian got out to an insanely fast start, throwing 91 punches in round one according to CompuBox, 91 again in round two, and 95 in round three, obscene numbers for a Heavyweight. By the final bell, Ibeabuchi and Tua had combined to throw 1,730 punches, breaking the Heavyweight record set by Ali vs Frazier III, when they combined for 1,591 punches - in 14 rounds, two rounds more than Ibeabuchi and Tua had to work with. Ike threw 975 punches, the most ever by a single Heavyweight. Both fighters had a brawling fight style, they were both 24 years old at the time of this epic "tribal" battle, and they were both undefeated going in to this fight. 226lb Tua's record stood at 27-0-0 23KO's while 236lb Ibeabuchi's record stood at 16-0-0 12KO's. This fight is the stuff that dreams were made of. Two warriors stood toe to toe and gave it their all, showing exceptional heart and endurance. I try my best to envision light heavyweights Charles & Moore fightin "The Tuamanator" and always end up laughing. And "The President" would have walked through cruiserweights Marciano & Walcott as if they were invisible. Imagine penguin arms tryin to fight top-notch Super Heavyweights with 80" to 85" albatross wingspans and 40 to 90 pound weight advantages? 184 pounds give me a break, what a joke. Marciano was the best during his little post war era 3-generations ago but unfortunately he would not be relevant against today's top-notch Super Heavyweights similar to undefeated 270lb Joyce, undefeated 263lb Makhmudov, undefeated 248lb Sanchez, undefeated 247lb Hrgovic, undefeated 245lb Anderson and undefeated 275lb Fury just to name a few. And then there are so many other real-Heavyweights little Rocky couldn't handle similar to Ibeabuchi Lewis Bowe Vitali Ruddock Witherspoon Grant Bruno Holmes Ali Foreman Liston Tyson Tua Usyk Wladimir Ruiz Parker Ortiz Dokes Lyle Thomas Weaver Briggs Morrison Cooney and Wilder. I could easily list another 25.
Y'all fanboys treat little Marciano as if he were god himself. When he walked the earth shook. Society shouldn't care more about person X just because he was a good boxer. Marciano was no more important than everyday, hard-working people. He only defended his cruiserweight title 6 times. Against middleweight turned "Light" heavyweight Matthews. "Light" heavyweight Charles twice. "Light" heavyweight Moore. A very "unhealthy" Cockell. A very small 184 lb cruiserweight LaStarza. And washed cruiserweight Walcott who lost 20 times and was KOd 6 times... That's it? What's the big deal? What's so great about that? For a world champion title holder that's an extremely weak resume. It don't get no worse than that. And considering his opponents bodyweight it's downright embarrassing.
George said in an interview with Ring Magazine: “Sparring with Liston is the most dangerous thing that I ever did in my entire life. No matter what I tried against him, it was me who had to revert back to boxing. Nobody made me box like Sonny Liston did and that happened every time we worked together. He taught me many things, including the importance of the jab.” A good example of Sonny's sheer strength was an exercise he devised in training camp of loading an industrial sized wheelbarrow full of rocks, and wheeling it up and down a hill. Foreman, 19, and training with "the old man," could only carry one wheelbarrow for every 3 for Sonny: “His strength," said Foreman, "you just can't believe how strong he was!"
"I felt Floyd Patterson is a vastly improved fighter. He has potentialities of being a great fighter when he gets some experience. I felt confident I could beat him, but I also learned that youth can be too much," said Archie when he found his tongue. For the first time ever, the gaudy pitchman was guilty of astonishing understatement. What the sport needed next was some men good enough to take on the young and growing champ. The man most fitted for the assignment: Retired Champion Rocky Marciano. -- written by TheFightCity 1956. (See what's happening? All the sportswriters across America were trying their best to get Rocky to come out of retirement. But Rocky declined all their million dollar offers because he knew he'd have to face Patterson then Liston. Besides he was too busy living the fast life. He abandoned his kids and wife to sleep with thousands and his new business was loansharking)
What about washed-up 40 year old Louis and nobody cares about washed-up light heavyweights Charles Moore and Walcott. Authentic Heavyweights King Fury Ibeabuchi Lewis Bowe Vitali Ali Holmes Foreman Witherspoon Thomas Weaver Dokes Grant Povetkin Whyte Ruiz Parker Ortiz Wilder Wladimir Tua Tyson would have OBLITERATED those tiny light heavyweights.
Ali fought both Foreman and Liston, and he said that when it came to George he just had to take the hits and wear big George down, in the case of Liston, he simply did not want to get hit at all. So for Ali it was certainly Sonny that hit harder. Foreman trained with Liston after the Olympics, preparing him for pro boxing. George said Sonny was the only man that had ever pushed him backwards with sheer strength alone. He also said that you were always really careful not to make Sonny mad! I think it is pretty safe to say that Sonny Liston hit harder than George Foreman.
Southpaw 200 lb Cruiserweight Usyk is actually bigger than Ali. Joshua came in at 240 lbs, only an 18 lb weight advantage over Usyk 222 lbs 6'3.2" height 78.2" reach. Holyfield 218 lbs 6'2.5" height 78" reach. Michael Spinks 208 lbs 6' 2.5" height 76" reach. Ali 215 lbs 6'2.5" (passport) height 78" reach. And of course we mustn't forget 185 lb 5'10" Rocky with his famously shortest "ever" 67" inch bantamweight T-rex alligator arm reach.
During the deepest era in light heavyweight history Gold Medalist Undisputed Undefeated HOF ATG GOAT Michael Spinks beat Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, and knocked out Yaqui Lopes and Marvin Johnson. Which was not easy to do in their primes. Michael also beat Heavyweight champion Larry Holmes to win the title, who was also undefeated. Michael Spinks is the most accomplished light heavyweight in history. Light heavyweight Charles lost *("25")* times and was KO'd *("7")* times. Light heavyweight Moore lost *("23")* times and was KO'd *("7")* times.
One would think since Marciano was only 185 that he would at least have faster hands than the true Heavyweights right? But Maricano had the slowest hands I've ever seen on a boxer.
Fer two decades the Marciano's have been tryin to remove this article *@ THE ROCK Sports Illustrated Vault Aug\23\1993* but cannot bcz it's all factual!!! Many defamation lawsuits have been filed but all failed. *He was seriously messed up.* His friends tried to help but he refused. He caused his own demise through his insatiable desire for sex and money.
I don't see how Marciano's status moves up from being ranked 7th throughout the entire 1960s with the multitude of Great Heavyweights that came after him. The question is how does he stack up with the Mount Rushmore of Heavyweights? In my opinion too many Rocky fans don't do a deep drive into examining his career. That magical 49-0 is the shiny coin so many can not see beyond. LaStarza was one of Marciano's best opponents, he was 37-0. How many of y'all actually studied those 37 guys LaStarza fought? #37) Cesar Brion - 49 wins 11 losses with 36% KOs (C-level). Brian's career record looks okay until ya see how many of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians. Walter Hafer - 22 wins 26 losses with 26% KOs (F-level) Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs (F-level) Jackie Lyons - 32 wins 24 losses with 23% KOs 23% (F-level) Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs (D to F-level) Jimmy Carollo - 36 wins 17 losses with 16% KOs (D to F-level) Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs (F-level) Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs (D to F-level) Bill Weinberg - 44 wins 22 losses with 34% KOs (D-level) Gene Gosney - 14 wins 5 losses with 42% KOs (D-level) Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs (F-level) Mike Jacobs - 14 wins 16 losses with 12% KOs (F-level) Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs (F-level) Mel McKinney - 8 wins 10 losses with 5% KOs (F-level) Teddy Georges - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs (F-level) Oscar Goode - 43 wins 23 losses with 20% KOs (F-level) Tony Gangemi - 21 wins 18 losses with 26% KOs (F-level) Benny Rusk - 20 wins 17 losses with 27% KOs (F-level) Fred McManus - 18 wins 19 losses with 7% KOs (F-level) John Holloway - 2 wins 11 losses with 15% KOs (F-level) Claude McClintock - 1 win 9 losses with 0% KOs (F-level) Steve King - 21 wins 11 losses with 17% KOs (D to F-level) Jimmy White - 9 wins 17 losses with 11% KOs (F-level) Frankie Reed - 2 wins 14 losses with 0% KOs (F-level) Mike Belluscio - 15 wins 10 losses with 37% KOs (F-level) Luther McMillan - 13 wins 19 losses with 12% KOs (F-level) Fred Ramsey - 8 wins 12 losses with 28% KOs (F-level) Matt Mincy - 0 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs (F-level) Lorne McCarthy - 2 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs (F-level) Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs (D-level) Matt Mincy - 0 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs (F-level) Zeke Brown - 0 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs (F-level) Jim Johnson - 3 wins 22 losses with 7% KOs (F-level) Jimmy Dodd - 8 wins 12 losses with 22% KOs (F-level) Al Zappala - 20 wins 27 losses with 9% KOs (F-level) Zack Johnson - 3 wins 7 losses with 10% KOs (F-level) Dave Glanton - 1 win 13 losses with 7% KOs (F-level)
If 42 year old light heavyweight Moore and 38 year old cruiserweight Walcott could drop little white Rocky then the Tyson's, Foreman's, Klitschko's and Ibeabuchi's of the world woulda kilt him. How can a 185 pound man even be considered an ATG Super Heavyweight when he was barely cruiserweight?
Joe Louis said in Gods of War: *"It didn’t matter what stance Sonny Liston fought from, he was the best I ever saw.”* So which is it Joe? Liston was the best or Marciano was the best? *This is exactly why quotes are meaningless.* Yet Rocky fans constantly hang onto quotes as if it were life or death. *According to Marciano himself, Muhammad Ali would have won. Rocky said three boxers in his lifetime were a bridge too far for him, a young Joe Louis, Sonny Liston, and Ali. Louis for hand speed and power, Ali for pure speed, and Liston for technical excellence and pure brute strength.* - Rocky Marciano, Mike Stanton, Johnathan Eig and Fight City *"Marciano admitted he could not beat prime Louis, Ali and Liston."* - Monte D. Cox Boxing Historian When people focus on anecdotes and quotes and not actual facts (i.e. quality of opponents based on their records, quality of your record based on who you beat and when you beat them), it's just spin and propaganda. Marciano's era was not stacked with talent. If it were, the foundation of his record wouldn't be based on beating over the hill fighters. It's over with. Little Rocky's resume is complete and utter Horseshirt.
Fury would keep little Rocky at arm's length and force him back whenever he felt crowded. He'd jab, turn, and flummox him for as long as wanted, and if Fury felt so inclined, he'd walk him down Kronk style and grind out a stoppage. And none of this, "if he can't reach his head he'll go to the body", either. That's just bull****. Fury's lead would keep Marciano too far away as is. Rocky ain't gettin the opportunities to impose his work-rate and definitely doesn't hit hard enough to stop him. Fury jabs him into oblivion. Heck, Fury can land 4 or 5 jabs a round and win the round. King Fury Wins!!! Anyway he Chooses!!! *Fury is a titan amongst mere mortals. Generations of dna forged to create the perfect Super Heavyweight boxer. I'm grateful to see him in my lifetime. A focused Fury is boxing evolved to it's highest state ever.* Transport "The King" back to little Rocky's era and he woulda had 149 wins 0 losses with 100% KO's!!! *Seriously though, if little Rocky fought Fury he would need the use of a stepladder or Fury could fight on his knees.* *ALL HAIL THE GOAT KING FURY*
1946 *(Rocky's amateur bouts)* 1. April 15, 1946 Henry Lester *(L-DQ3)* 2. August 23, Frederic L. Ross KO-1 3. August 23, Richard Jarvis KO-1 4. August 23, Joe DeAngelis *(Loss-3)* 1947 5. January 17, Jim Connolly KO 1 6. Jan 17, Bob Girard *(Loss-3)* *1947-03-17 Professional Lee Epperson fights Amateur Rocky Mack aka Rocky Marciano. Then Rocky goes back to the amateurs Jan, Feb, March 1948.* 1948 *(Rocky's back to amateur bouts)* 7. Jan 26, Joe Sidlaskis KO-1 8. February Charlie Mortimer KO-3 9. February George McInnis TKO-1 10. March 1, Coley Wallace *(Loss-3)* 11. March Fred Fischera KO 12. March George McGinnis W-3 *1948-07-12 Professional Harry Bilazarian fights Rocky Marciano. Don Cuoco & Don Cogswell just started legal proceedings to remove the Rocky Mack fight vs. Lee Epperson bcz once Professional you cannot go back to the amateurs.* Louis Bravely fought *(17)* years...........Rocky only *(7)* years Walcott Bravely fought *(23)* years.......Rocky only *(7)* years Charles Bravely fought *(20)* years.......Rocky only *(7)* years Moore Bravely fought *(27)* years.........Rocky only *(7)* years Savold Bravely fought *(19)* years........Rocky only *(7)* years Matthews Bravely fought *(19)* years...Rocky only *(7)* years LaStarza Bravely fought *(14)* years.....Rocky only *(7)* years Cockell Bravely fought *(10)* years.......Rocky only *(7)* years Lowry Bravely fought *(16)* years.........Rocky only *(7)* years
Archie Moore is the only boxer in history to be ranked as #1 contender in 3 of the original 8 weight classes: middleweight in 1942, light heavyweight in 1950, heavyweight in 1955. Archie fought as a middleweight from 1935 to 1945, compiling a record of 70--9--5. Moore in his best years at light heavyweight went 79--10--3 from 1945 to his clash with Marciano in 1955. The 50s were all about the light heavyweights NOT the Heavyweights. Moore, Charles, Maxim, Bivins, Johnson, Pastrano, Marshall, Matthews etcetera fought back and forth amongst themselves 40 times. Besides light heavyweights Moore and Charles, another boxer that caused havoc for little Rocky was cruiserweight Walcott who lost to light heavyweights Charles 'twice', Fox 'twice', Maxim, Brothers, Taylor, AND middleweights Mays, Palmer, Ketchell. Journeyman Joe lost throughout his entire career, beginning, middle, end. At best Walcott was a C-level Journeyman. In summary Marciano's 3 best opponents were two light heavyweights and one Journeyman cruiserweight. To make matters worse Moore was factually 41 and Walcott was 38/39. And to all those claiming age does not matter then put Marciano at 41 and Moore at 31.
Gypsy King Fury would keep little white Rocky at arm's length and force him back whenever he felt crowded. He'd jab, turn and bewilder him for as long as wanted, and if Fury felt so inclined, he'd walk him down Kronk style and smash out a stoppage. And none of this, "if he can't reach his head he'll go to the body", either. That's just bull****. Fury's lead would keep Marciano too far away as is. He ain't getting the opportunities to impose his workrate and definitely doesn't hit hard enough to stop him. Fury jabs him into oblivion. Heck, Fury can land 4 or 5 jabs a round and win the round. King Fury wins. Anyway he chooses.
True Stout. You know your stuff. Moore fought at welterweight also., He was denied because of Jim Crow. That's why he kept moving up in weight. He couldn't get title shots until he moved up to Lt heavy. He was 37 when finally he got title fight. I noticed that most of the people that say Walcott wasn't old will tell you Loma was past it vs Haney. LOL.
@@louis-i5f Many Rocky fans compliment Rocky for giving black boxers an opportunity. Which is not true. Charles beat Walcott for the title that Joe Louis vacated. Then Walcott eventually took the title from Charles. Moore, Charles and Walcott already established themselves before they even fought little Rocky. Marciano didn't give anyone an opportunity.
@@Rowdy-r2d2-John.3.16 Many Rock fans give Marciano full credit for beating old men . They will scream and cry . "Walcott was in his prime." " Moore was in his prime."" Louis was on a 8 fight winning streak" He still was in prime." Giving Rock full credit for wins. They say that Holmes came after Ali so Holmes isn't liked because of that. Well Marciano followed the great Joe Louis . Doesn't same scrutiny apply to Marciano? Doesn't seem so. Double standards.
Yeah but Marciano was at a disadvantage in every other category. Height, weight, reach, experience. Why do you only focus on the only advantage he had?
Archie Moore had his first fight in 1935 against Billy Sims. His 2nd fight was against 148 lb welterweight 'Kid Pocahuntas', Archie weighed 148 also. Moore slowly worked his way up to the 160 lb middleweight division. He finally attained the 174 lb "Light" heavyweight championship after 17yrs in 1952, and he held that belt till 1962. So Moore was obviously moonlighting (gain 5 to 15 lbs,, lose 5 to 15 lbs) the heavyweight division for 10yrs. Moore had exactly 178 fights (20yrs) before he fought Marciano. Both Moore and Charles attained their HOF status as "Light" heavyweights NOT Heavyweights. Y'all really believe it was a glorious feat to win against blown-up "Light" heavyweights and washed senior citizens?
You don't like the fact that a white guy is considered the greatest heavyweight champ in history. Listen/read what Muhamad Ali said about Rocky Marciano. Case closed.
Hall of Fame All Time Great Heavyweight Champion Sonny Liston had not lost for 10 years before Ali, and didn’t lose again for 5 more. Sonny’s only loss before Ali was early in his career when Marty Marshall broke his jaw when Sonny was laughing at him. Liston fought on with a broken jaw, had it broken again in a second place, yet only lost by split decision. He twice destroyed Marty in rematches.
Gypsy King Fury would keep little white Rocky at arm's length and force him back whenever he felt crowded. He'd jab, turn and bewilder him for as long as wanted, and if Fury felt so inclined, he'd walk him down Kronk style and smash out a stoppage. And none of this, "if he can't reach his head he'll go to the body", either. That's just bull****. Fury's lead would keep Marciano too far away as is. He ain't getting the opportunities to impose his workrate and definitely doesn't hit hard enough to stop him. Fury jabs him into oblivion. Heck, Fury can land 4 or 5 jabs a round and win the round. King Fury wins. Anyway he chooses
Little 184lb cruiser Rocky was a great champion in his own era and a credit to the sport of boxing, however he boxed in a weak post war drained era where boxers from yesteryear ruled the roost. Since then, there has been so many other topnotch genuine authentic 220 to 290lb Heavyweights similar to: Zhang Fury Lewis Bowe Vitali Ibeabuchi Parker Anderson Hrgovic Sanchez Ruiz Joyce Whyte Holmes Ali Foreman Ruddock Witherspoon Grant Bruno Liston Tyson Tua Usyk Wladimir Ruiz Ortiz Dokes Lyle Thomas Weaver Briggs Morrison Cooney Wilder Joshua Usyk *I could "easily" list another Thirty!!!*
It's hilarious the way Marciano fans try to blame Patterson for ducking Marciano. Well if Marciano didn't up-n-cowardly-quit during his prime they definitely would have fought!!! Instead Marciano intentionally avoided Patterson's blinding speed to save-face.
@ 3: 27 the banner-caption or on-screen text reads; ARCHIE MOORE CLASSIC SPORTS At age 42, second oldest ever to fight for heavyweight championship (George Foreman, age 45 in 1994) Archie's age is no longer a mystery. Wiki recently removed 1916 and went with 1913 per family request. “My mother should know since she was there." -- Archie Moore Jul 20, 2020 - Archie Moore - BoxRec writes -- "Moore claimed he was born December 13, 1916, but his mother said he was born December 13, 1913. The U.S. Census record from 1920 seems to put an end to the mystery. "Archie L. Wright" is listed as a nephew in the household of Cleveland Moore and was three years and two months old on the date of the census" - January 2, 1920. So BoxRec says, "'Seems"' to put an "'end'" to the mystery." Who said it's the "'end'" ? BoxRec serves maybe two million folks. Wiki serves Billions and they say 1913. Archie's Mother and Archie's children say 1913 so they take precedent. Archie's mother did not fill out that census form, an uncle did who lived in a different state. Archie claimed he was born in 1916 in Collinsville, Illinois. But Archie's Mother told reporters numerous times, "Archibald was born in 1913 in Benoit, Mississippi" and that she was "never in Collinsville." December 13, 1913 was even written in his obituary by his children. "My mother should know since she was there." -- Archie Moore Says Billy Moore, Archie’s 68-year-old son who lives in San Diego, “My daddy was born in Benoit, Mississippi, and he was proud of it. If I heard him say it once, I heard him say it hundreds of times." @ BoxRec - Wikipedia --- 'Criticism of website' -very first sentence reads, ""BoxRec has been criticized for not keeping correct records for boxers, especially historic fighters"" Here's a perfect example of BoxRec's inaccuracies and why they're criticized...Walcott's actual record is 51-18-2 and he was KO'd (5) times...yet BoxRec shows ""49-20-1 KO'd (6) times""
So little white Marciano threw 100 punches in a round? Lol give me a break. Number one Marciano only weighed 185. So even if he threw 100 punches in a round what would that prove? Why compare a light heavyweight punch numbers to a true-Heavyweight. Only sik-minded fanboys would even try to compare.
Foreman, probably the most formidable puncher in boxing history said that Liston is the only man he ever faced that made him back-up and revert to boxing. Much bigger, stronger sluggers like Liston, Foreman and Ibeabuchi would knock little Marciano into tomorrow before he could get close enough to land any shots of his own. Watch footage of Foreman destroying Frazier twice and Liston destroying Patterson twice. That’s exactly what would happen to little Marciano if he met a prime Liston!!!
Great white hope Marciano battered Don Cockell, another light heavyweight masquerading as a Heavyweight. Rock was the biggest phony ever, how in the hell could boxing allow such deceit, they must legitimize his legacy so they brought out of retirement an OLD, RETIRED, AND COMPLETELY BROKE, JOE LOUIS, who was like fodder fed to a pitbull, kinda like when they fed Larry Holmes to an angry Mike Tyson, or allowed Ali to be served up to Holmes.
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less. Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less. Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less. Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less. Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less. Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents. Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the overwhelming majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume @ welterweight and middleweight. Matthews was a-natural lightweight, welterweight, middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?* *Even little 184lb cruiserweight Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!* IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0: D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE *In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine* Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little 184lb-cruiser Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
Zhang - 287 Joyce - 280 Fury - 277 Ngannou - 272 Briggs - 265 Ruiz - 265 Grant - 265 Makhmudov - 260 Lennox - 250 Parker - 250 Foreman - 250 Vitali - 250 Peter - 250 Joshua - 250 Whyte - 250 Ibeabuchi - 245 Kabayel - 245 Wladimir - 245 Anderson - 245 Hrgovic - 245 Sanchez - 245 Ruddock - 245 Bowe - 240 Ortiz - 240 Witherspoon - 235 Tua - 235 Dokes - 235 Bruno - 230 Morrison - 230 Cooney - 230 Wilder - 225 Thomas - 225 Usyk - 222 Lyle - 220 Holmes - 218 Ali - 218 Tyson - 218 Liston - 218 *Marciano - 184 with the shortest ever 67" flyweight reach* *Charles - 181 with the lowest ever 42% KO's* *Moore - 175 light heavyweight champion from 1952 to 1962* Rocky fans always knew his post war drained era had an expiration date and that time has arrived. He was never tested against genuine topnotch 200+lbs Heavyweights let alone authentic topnotch 224+lbs Super Heavyweights. But he went 49-0, yes he did, against who? Middleweights and light heavyweights masquerading as Heavyweights. Walcott was at least 40, Moore was at least 42, Charles factually had ALS and Louis was washed. *Rocky never fought an all-time great in his prime.* Heck, in my opinion today's light heavyweight phenom Artur Beterbiev would annihilate Marciano! Rocky was flat-footed wide open and never used the jab. *Rocky's era was undoubtedly without a doubt* *the absolute worst Heavyweight division in boxing history!*
Eldridge Eatman a 50/50 F-LEVEL diver had 22 wins 20 losses with an abysmal 22% KO's when he faced Rocky. *"Marciano hit Eatman with a right in the 3rd and Eatman went down, THOUGH IT DIDN'T APPEAR HE WAS HIT"* -- written by Providence Journal and BoxRec. That's not all. Eldridge had 1 win 8 losses going into his bout vs. Rocky who was 26-0. It doesn't make sense. Why would a 26-0 fighter fight an *F-LEVEL* diver with 1 win 8 losses? Bcz 'technically' Marciano had just lost to Roland LaStarza so Marciano's handlers (Carbo) were afraid to put him in with anyone who could pose much of a threat after coming so close to tasting defeat. So of course his next opponent had to be against the *F-LEVEL* diver Eatman. Everybody knew and it was a gimme fight for an undefeated fighter but what could you do against the Sicilian Mafia? During this time Rocky intentionally ducked many good fighters such as Marty Marshall, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Bivins, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard just to name a few. Then there was *C to F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry who had a career 71 wins 68 losses. Marciano's 32nd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Keene Simmons who had a career 8 wins 8 losses. Marciano's 33rd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell who had a career 4 wins 17 losses. Marciano's 34th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Art Henri who had a career 13 wins 14 losses. Marciano's 35th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate who had a career 11 wins 14 losses. *It's clear as day Mafia Boss Frankie Carbo & associate Al Weill padded and cherry-picked Marciano's resume his entire, but very short career.* Rocky fought nobody notable until Walcott who was at least 40 if not older. Walcott's age is discussed in his biography Chapter 9, page 71. He never had a birth certificate and had to create one in his mid 20's. Then there's light heavy Charles who already had symptoms of Lou Gehrig's disease. It's in his biography by William Dettloff. Then Rocky finishes his very short career against light heavyweight Moore who was 42 if not older. *IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0:* *TOO MANY D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN* *BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$.* *OR BEING MADE TO BY THE SICILIAN UNDERWORLD* *THAT CONTROLLED EVERY SINGLE FACET* *OF BOXING DURING THE 1950's!!!* *EVEN LITTLE ROCKY HAD SICILIAN MAFIA BOSS* *CARBO IN HIS BACK POCKET PROTECTING HIM* *BCZ THEY WERE MAKING MILLIONS THROUGH HIM.* *THE DAY AFTER HE RETIRED HE IMMEDIATELY* *ABANDONED HIS KIDS AND WIFE TO CONNECT* *WITH HIS UNDERWORLD FRIENDS WHO HELPED* *HIM START HIS LOANSHARKING BUSINESS.* *CRY AND SCREAM ALL YA WANT BCZ IT* *CANNOT EVER SWEEP IT UNDER THE CARPET!!!* *IT WAS REAL AND VERY WELL DOCUMENTED SO STOP LIVING IN DENIAL.*
If 178 to 184 lb tiny cruiser Rocky was *all-Powerful* why didn't he ever break any bones? *He never broke one rib, one nose, one eye-socket, one jaw or detached one retina.* If he did i assure you every single Rocky fan on the planet would be talking about it, right? Marciano catches lightning in a bottle ONE time vs. Walcott and his fans automatically assume he's the most powerful puncher that ever lived. Rocky never had 43 KO's, half were TKO's. Count them. There's a Huge difference between KO's and TKO's. LaStarza and Cockell were still standing, correct? Rocky's entire legacy has been built around that "one" lucky KO against a guy that was at least 40 years of age, if not older. *Just before Walcott gets KO'd where are both of his hands? They are at waist level. Why? Bcz he's worn out and his reflexes are shot. Father time waits for no one!* Roland LaStarza with all his supposed "Broken Bones" and "Ruptured Blood Vessels" only had minor surgery to remove tiny bone chips from his elbow just like David Tua did after his fight with Ibeabuchi. Elbow arthroscopy is a minimally invasive procedure. It's a common boxing injury yet y'all act as if both his arms were decapitated. Besides, Roland said, *"I already had elbow problems before i even fought Marciano."* (I have the article). Here's the newspaper article about Layne's tooth: *"Rex Layne lost a left upper tooth..the tooth broke at the gums when Marciano caught the Utahn in the mouth with a full right hand. Layne was taken immediately after the fight to a New York dentist to have the teeth X-rayed and also for treatment on a broken tooth." Layne's handlers said, "the tooth went out with the gum shield."* ...So, Rex only sustained *"ONE"* broken tooth!!! This is important. *If all of Layne's front teeth were sheared off at the gum's it would have been virtually impossible for Layne to fight Charles exactly 3 months later! Correct?* Folks break their teeth all the time skateboarding or slipping and falling on the ice. One broken tooth, what's the big deal?
The Marciano Tapes #6 @3:40 Marciano confesses Carmine Vingo hit the back of his head on the plywood flooring. *He said, "it so happened that Vingo hit his head on the flooring, and it sent him unconscious. He was paralyzed a little bit in his fingers and hands. There was a change in the ruling, from then on padding was put on the ring of the flooring."* Rocky's manager Al Weill said the same thing in Marciano's biography 'Unbeaten', *"Vingo hit his head on the flooring, then he went unconscious."* So after all this time it was the plywood flooring that partially paralyzed Vingo, not Marciano's punch. *It's no wonder Vingo said, "I WAS SLAUGHTERED FOR A CROWD" --source: The Saturday Evening Post by Carmine Vingo as told by Seymour Shubin* *Carmine Vingo's F-LEVEL opponents:* *1.* Barney Metten career record 6 wins 3 losses *F-LEVEL* *2.* Fred Ramsey career record 8 wins 12 losses *F-LEVEL* *3.* Earl Turner career record 2 wins 21 losses *F-LEVEL* (Turner's only purpose was padding records). *4.* George Washington career record 12 wins 33 losses *F-LEVEL* (Another paid diver). *5.* Joe Lindsay career record 28 wins 7 losses *C-LEVEL* (Vingo Loses). *6.* Freddie McManus career record 18 wins 19 losses *F-LEVEL* *7.* Tommy DiGiorgio career record 9 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL* *8.* Jimmy Walls career record 20 wins 41 losses *F-LEVEL* (Another Diver). *9.* Tommy DiGiorgio career record 9 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL* (SECOND time Vingo fights this guy. Why? We all know why). *10.* Johnny Williams career record 2 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL* *11.* Don Mogard career record 20 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL* *12.* Freddie McManus career record 18 wins 19 losses *F-LEVEL* (SECOND time Vingo fights this guy. Why? We all know why). *13.* Ernie Conyer career record 5 wins 9 losses *F-LEVEL* *14.* Ernie Conyer career record 5 wins 9 losses *F-LEVEL* (SECOND time Vingo fights this guy. Why? Isn't it obvious? To pad his fraudulent resume). *15.* Joe Modzele career record 18 wins 8 losses *D to F-LEVEL* (Another 183 lb light heavyweight moonlighting as Heavyweight, they were dime a dozen back then). *16.* George Washington career record 12 wins 33 losses *F-LEVEL* (Second time Vingo fights this diver. Vingo fought *FOUR* opponents *TWICE* within 16 bouts. The majority of his opponents had losing records. This is all to reminiscent of Roland LaStarza's resume). *17.* Al Robinson career record 0 wins 5 losses *F-LEVEL* (Vingo actually fights a debuting amateur (0-0-0) just before he faces Rocky. Why? Worst division in boxing history). *18.* Rocky Marciano career record 49 wins 0 losses *A-minus-LEVEL for extremely short 7 year career. In comparison Moore had 27 year career.* (Vingo was completely outclassed and never had a chance from the get-go. I saw their Getty Museum pics and Marciano didn't have a single mark on his face, his eyes were wide open and clear). All this time i was mislead into believing that Vingo was this twenty year old superstar being prepped to become the next Heavyweight champ. Instead he was prepped for *SLAUGHTER JUST TO PLEASE A CROWD* --Carmine Vingo *WHAT THEY DID TO VINGO WAS A TRAVESTY*
Moore was asked about Patterson after he lost and said, "He has potentialities of being a great fighter when he gets some experience." -- LOL Moore just got smashed by the 21yr old, what more experience does he need? Moore had plenty of experience, where did it disappear to?
A closer glance at Joe Louis 8 fight winning streak which helped him become #1 ranked contender before he faced Rocky Marciano. Below is the "SIX" (6) boxers Louis beat: #1) 196 lb Cesar Brian -- Decision -- Brian had an abysmal 36% KO's. Brian's career record of 49 wins 11 losses looks okay until ya see (25) of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians who helped pad his record. #2) 191 lb Freddie Beshore -- KO -- 28-10-1 Freddie had a featherfisted 24% KO's. #3) 187 lb Omelio Agramonte -- Decision -- I watched their entire fight and Joe's combinations were non-existent. Agramonte had a low-power 45% KOs. The announcer said Louis was supposed to fight Charles after the Savold fight but the Louis camp ducked the light heavyweight. #4) 194 lb Andy Walker -- TKO -- 17-8-7 B-level Andy was powderpuffer with 18% KO's. #5) 188 lb Omelio Agramonte -- Decision AGAIN -- Why Twice? What happened to LaStarza, Walcott or Charles again? #6) 190 lb Lee Savold -- KO -- Savold lost 45 fights and was KOd 12 times. Even the announcer said, "Joe Louis reflexes are but a memory." These two should have been retired. They just pushed Louis through towards Marciano so everyone could fill their pockets with money. #7) 197 lb Cesar Brian -- Decision AGAIN -- Why Twice? What happened to LaStarza, Walcott or Charles again? #8) 179 lb Jimmy Bivins -- Decision - 5' 9" career middleweight light heavyweight Bivins had 25 losses and was KOd 5 times. He also had an abysmal 27% KO's. Talk about bum-of-the-month-club, WOW. Notice the 5 decisions. A prime 24 year old (1938) speedy combination puncher Joe Louis would have easily accumulated 8 knockouts against those powder-puffers. It was obviously a predetermined carefully hand-picked set-up. So Joe comes outta retirement and takes the worst beating of his career from a light heavyweight (Charles) then he fights 6 stiffs and becomes #1 ranked contender. Joe looked like he was wadding through mud when he fought little Rocky. Boxing-elites, Italian-mafioso and the IRS really needed Joe to be ranked #1 inorder to get their Louis vs Marciano $$-SHOW-$$. The entire eastern seaboard was ruled by Italians. The only loyalty the Italian-mob had was to money. Hey they even took 50% of Marciano's earnings and all ticket sales, all in all $2 Million. $2 Million in 1955 is equivalent to $21 Million today. Norris, Carbo, Weill had complete control over Rocky. That's why he Quit. The Louis camp negotiated a deal with the IRS under which he would come out of retirement, with all his net proceeds going to the IRS. After boxing Joe ended up in the pro wrestling circuit and they still took his money. But that gig finished when Cowboy Rocky Lee lunged onto him with both feet, his boots colliding with Louis' torso. The crash cracked three of his ribs. It left him with a cardiac contusion and officially ended his stint as a wrestler. Children used to send him one dollar in the mail. In his biography he said a child walked up and handed him a dime. When Joe was broken physically and mentally the IRS finally stopped collecting. He lived with friends until he died.
Boxing Historian Monte Cox wrote: “Liston was made to be a fighter. His physical attributes bordered on the freakish. At six-foot, one-inch, he had an eighty-four inch reach-longer than that of all other champions with the exception of Primo Carnera. His neck was a massive eighteen inches. But the number that leaps off the page-the statistic that looks initially lik' a typo-is that which corresponds to his hands. When closed into a fist, they measured fifteen inches around, virtually twice the size of an average man’s. To contemplate the impact of a fist that large, delivered over a distance that great, from a man so determined to do damage, would give even the bravest opponent pause."
Y'all white Marciano lovers fail to ever mention Marciano's Forced retirement. Why? Because Marciano couldn't take the pain anymore from two confirmed nose surgeries, hand surgery, hundreds of stitches, chronic back pain and constant migraines cause his head was used as a Pinata constantly gettin smacked around,, here,, you hit me five times,, and I'll hit you back one time,, Duh. And all that talk about retiring for his family nonsense was simply a bull•••• publicity stunt because he immediately abandoned his family and left them penniless when he perished.
If ever anyone deserved their success this courageous athlete most certainly did. It's a brutal business that most of us wouldn't survive for a second.
Sure you would. Billions of people fight daily to survive. He never deserved anything. He committed felony assault and robbery when he was in the military.
Fer two decades the Marciano's have been tryin to remove this article *@ THE ROCK Sports Illustrated Vault Aug\23\1993* but cannot bcz it's all factual!!! Many defamation lawsuits have been filed but all failed. *He was seriously messed up.* His friends tried to help but he refused. He caused his own demise through his insatiable desire for sex and money.
What Marciano did to his family is unforgivable. During his retirement speech, and during his appearance on the Ed Sullivan show he said, "I want to spend more time with my family." *IT WAS ALL A LIE.* He immediately abandoned his kids and wife to sleep with thousands then left them penniless @ *Aug\23\1993 -- THE ROCK Sports Illustrated Vault*
Sonny had a-albatross 84″ reach. Little Rocky had a-stubby 67" reach. A 17″ reach advantage is a tall order to overcome, but when the man with the reach advantage is the most fearsome puncher in history it’s insurmountable. Marciano’s style was tailor made for Liston. Liston’s power and reach would have been too much for the plodding face first Marciano.
You're saying Marciano would undoubtedly lose to Liston? Sonny Liston 50 wins 4 losses little Rocky 49 wins 0 losses.. so mainly because of the 17 inch reach advantage Liston had on Marciano and the fact that Sonny was an extremely hard puncher, the 4 fights he lost was because the other boxers had a longer reach and also hit harder than him right?
As former boxer and boxing historian Liston would have trouble with Marciano! Liston was a solid fighter! 95% of Liston reputation was built off Cleveland Williams, Albert Wesphal and his 2 demolition jobs on Patterson! Granted Liston was ducked during his prime! Liston loses to a prime Frazier and Old or young Foreman! Liston was slow plodding and struggled with fighters with better hand speeds! Liston went my rounds with Mike Dejohn who was average at best! Anyone that claims Liston was huge indestructible monster should watch the 10 round fight with Journeyman Bert Whitehurst! This was Liston’s prime! Imagine Tyson or Lennox Lewis fighting this guy Bert Whitehurst! Liston on 2 occasions struggled to put him away! Liston was precursor to the The huge hype around Tyson! A time when America needed a bad man on the planet!
Rocky would of DESTROYED Sonny , He was a Coward and a Bully, Your big tough guy was too Afraid to come out and Finish getting his Beating like. A Man would when he Fought Ali
The decathlon is one of the best, if not the best test for speed/strength/endurance. The oldest any World or Olympic Champion has ever been is 32 (Roman Sebrle). This would leave one to believe that after 32 athletes will have started to decline- if not earlier. Boxers are only ever measured against their opponents, the best boxers that Marciano ever fought were undoubtedly past their prime. Marciano quit at 31 for a reason. A fighter is in his prime when he has the maturity and experience to go along with undiminished reflexes. Once his reflexes start to slide he's past-prime, simple as that. When his reflexes are gone he's a shot fighter. I can't recall seeing a fighter older than his early 30s that still had his reflexes fully intact.
And Rocky, good as he was with great power and a granite chin, would have been a first round knockout if he ever fought Iron Mike Tyson. Rocky was a slugger, Tyson was a boxer who was quicker, faster and stronger. I say this taking nothing away from Rocky.
im a mike tyson fan, but tyson is overrated, he was a pretty good boxer between 86 and 89, but not better than a foreman or jack jonhson@@robertscheinost179
Don't even try to compare slow moving Marciano to phenom Mike Tyson. There's easily a 30 lb weight difference and Iron Mike was 5x Faster. Little Rocky slowly shuffled forward similar to a little Turtle 🐢 and Mike rapidly moved forward like a Thoroughbred Racehorse 🐎
*According to Marciano himself, Muhammad Ali would have won. Rocky said three boxers in his lifetime were a bridge too far for him, a young Joe Louis, Sonny Liston, and Ali. Louis for hand speed and power, Ali for pure speed, and Liston for technical excellence and pure brute strength.* - Rocky Marciano, Mike Stanton, Johnathan Eig and Fight City *"Marciano admitted he could not beat prime Louis, Ali and Liston."* - Monte D. Cox Boxing Historian This information is HUGE and settles any debate as to who could beat who *!!!!*
Marciano said his best weight he ever fought at was, "186lbs." Tyson was 220lbs at his fastest & best. About 235lbs at his heaviest. Rocky didn't have the speed or footwork to keep Tyson away or the skill or technique to keep him off. And saying that Rocky was tough… well,, tough can get you killed in the ring against a super power puncher with superior skills. This fight wouldn't last 2 rounds with a prime Tyson. And a non-prime Tyson would still be heavier and stronger. Rocky never faced anyone of merit who was near their prime. You wouldn't want Tyson to be your first. Bigger, faster, stronger. With malicious intent. No way Rocky would beat a prime Iron Mike. Lee Epperson career record 0 wins 1 loss *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks career record 0 wins 1 loss *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone career record 0 wins 3 losses *F-LEVEL* John Edwards career record 1 win 2 losses *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman career record 1 win 6 losses *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson career record 4 wins 2 losses *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft career record 12 wins 8 losses *F-LEVEL* James Connolly career record 12 wins 9 losses *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian career record 15 wins 12 losses *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson career record 3 wins 10 losses *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell career record 4 wins 17 losses *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron career record 4 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato career record 7 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie career record 10 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard career record 20 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis career record 32 wins 14 losses *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio career record 9 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons career record 9 wins 22 losses *F-LEVEL* Art Henri career record 18 wins 29 losses *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls career record 20 wins 41 losses *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry career record 71 wins 68 losses *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) 71 wins 68 losses *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino career record 24 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) 24 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic career record 18 wins 12 losses *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman career record 22 wins 21 losses *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate career record 12 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold career record 104 wins 45 losses *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato career record 56 wins 23 losses *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson career record 56 wins 27 losses *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor career record 31 wins 19 losses *D-LEVEL* Fred Beshore career record 35 wins 17 losses *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans 18 wins 8 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Eddie Ross 19 wins 5 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bob Quinn 20 wins 4 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bernie Reynolds 53 wins 13 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.* Pat Richards 24 wins 9 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Carmine Vingo 16 wins 2 losses looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.* Don Cockell 66 wins 14 losses looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.* Harry Matthews 90 wins 7 losses is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight?* *Even Rocky's 5 best opponents: Charles, Moore, Walcott, Layne, LaStarza -- LOST (94) times and were KO'd (28) times!!!* There it is. Y'all are intelligent enough to make your own judgement about Rocky's *F-LEVEL* resume. Who did he fight? Walcott was 40, Moore 42, Charles had ALS and Louis was washed. To continue claiming he was the Greatest or even top 10 Greatest Heavyweight is absurd. It's no wonder Hall of Fame trainer Emanuel Steward said, *"Marciano was too small. He really wasn't a Heavyweight. 5' 10", exceptionally short arms, very clumsy, cut easy, had troubled balance. 188 lbs was just too small."* @ Emanuel Steward: Ali all time greatest, Klitschko number eight *"Name one, just one 'Prime' all time great boxer Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Walcott Charles Moore Louis was 'Prime' when they fought him?"*
Southpaw Usyk is 6' 3" 221-lbs with 78" reach. Prime Clay/Ali was 6' 2.5" (passport) 212-lbs with 78" reach. Holyfield was 6' 2.5" 218-lbs with 78" reach. Michael Spinks was 6' 2.5" 207-lbs with 76" reach. Mike Tyson was 5' 10" 220-lbs with 71" reach. David Tua was 5' 10" 240-lbs with 71" reach. And of course we mustn't forget 5' 10" 185-lb Marciano with the shortest ever 67" flyweight reach. Shocking isn't it. Those other small guys weren't so small after all. They already had the natural weight or natural height and reach advantage so they were able to assimilate into the Heavyweight division with few to no problems.. On the other hand little Marciano had some serious dwarfism problems going on with his reach. Simply put Marciano's bone structure was too short to assimilate effectively.
Little Marciano quit boxing at only 31 years of age! Larry Holmes fought till he was 52. Holmes was born in 1949. Ad 31 years to 1949 = 1980. Holmes had exactly *(39)* fights after 1980. How many more fights did little LH Archie Moore have after age 31? One hundred? One hundred fifty? How many fights did Louis have after the age of 31??? How many fights did Walcott have after the age of 31??? How many fights did Charles have after the age of 31??? *Well that pretty much sums up exactly why little Rocky never lost a fight.* I find it shocking how Rocky fans cannot understand this concept. Liston fought till he was 50 (or older). Foreman fought till he was 48. Little Rocky quit at only *((31))* bcz his younger brother, Peter, said, *"ROCKY WAS EMBARRASSED OF LOSING"* well for Pete's sake it's no wonder he never lost, *he was a "'QUITTER"'!!!!* Had he continued fighting like everyone else did he undoubtedly would have lost. Instead the little 184lb-cruiser avoided being embarrassed and severely punished by a younger and stronger boxer as has always happened in the history of boxing!
Fer two decades the Marciano's have been tryin to remove this article @ THE ROCK Sports Illustrated Vault Aug\23\1993 but cannot bcz it's all factual!!! Many defamation lawsuits have been filed but all failed. He was seriously messed up. His friends tried to help but he refused. He caused his own demise through his insatiable desire for sex and money.
Marciano retiring at 31 was his prerogative. Who’s to say for what reasons? 31 is kind of getting up there for a boxer. As for other fighters and their records, it varies. Joe Fraser totaled only 37 pro fights Mike Tyson totaled 56 Ali totaled 61 It varies across-the-board for all the fighters. From this list alone, with Marciano at 49, he fits right between Mike Tyson and George Fraser. 🤷🏻♂️
LEGEND'S ARE BORN FROM JUST REGULAR PEOPLE WITH. ...A HEART 💖💖💖💖💖 OF 🥇🥇🥇🥇 GOLD! I WISH 🙏🙏🙏 THIS DJ 🎧🎤🎶🎧🎶 KNEW HIM PERSONALLY! MY ITALIAN FRIENDS HAVE LOVED ME SOOO MUCH! ITALIAN HERITAGE IS MY PRIDE!💖💖💖💖
Zhang - 287 Joyce - 280 Fury - 277 Ngannou - 272 Briggs - 265 Ruiz - 265 Grant - 265 Makhmudov - 260 Lennox - 250 Parker - 250 Foreman - 250 Vitali - 250 Peter - 250 Joshua - 250 Whyte - 250 Ibeabuchi - 245 Kabayel - 245 Wladimir - 245 Anderson - 245 Hrgovic - 245 Sanchez - 245 Ruddock - 245 Bowe - 240 Ortiz - 240 Witherspoon - 235 Tua - 235 Dokes - 235 Bruno - 230 Morrison - 230 Cooney - 230 Wilder - 225 Thomas - 225 Usyk - 222 Lyle - 220 Holmes - 218 Ali - 218 Tyson - 218 Liston - 218 *Marciano - 184 with the shortest ever 67" flyweight reach* *Charles - 181 with the lowest ever 42% KO's* *Moore - 175 light heavyweight champion from 1952 to 1962* Rocky fans always knew his post war drained era had an expiration date and that time has arrived. He was never tested against genuine topnotch 200+lbs Heavyweights let alone authentic topnotch 224+lbs Super Heavyweights. But he went 49-0, yes he did, against who? Middleweights and light heavyweights masquerading as Heavyweights. Walcott was at least 40, Moore was at least 42, Charles factually had ALS and Louis was washed. *Rocky never fought an all-time great in his prime.* Heck, in my opinion today's light heavyweight phenom Artur Beterbiev would annihilate Marciano! Rocky was flat-footed wide open and never used the jab. *Rocky's era was undoubtedly without a doubt* *the absolute worst Heavyweight division in boxing history!*
5' 9" 184 lb Rocky's entire legacy is built around his endurance and punches thrown per round. To claim his endurance and punching prowess was better than everyone else's is utter nonsense. Super Heavyweights Ibeabuchi and Tua threw a record breaking 1,730 punches! *"6' 6" 285 lb Bakole holds the #2 and #3 spot in terms of most total punches thrown by a Heavyweight in a single round, he's thrown 147 in one round before." - ( @**1:20** Combat : Bakole vs Jared from CLIMAT RDC TV ).* It's incredible the way so many Rocky fans try to turn him into something that he was not. I've read hundreds of fabricated story's. *The best one being his punch was equivalent to a 44 magnum bullet. If that were true why didn't he kill all of his opponents? Everyone on planet earth can clearly see Rocky's punching power is overrated. He hit his opponents hundreds of times with little to no effect. Most of his opponents were fighting again the very next day (Ross) or only one month later. Walcott Charles Moore Layne Matthews etc. were all back in training several days later.*
No way Marciano could have dealt with Patterson’s evasiveness and tremendous speed. Marciano was small, short, slow, clumsy and easy to hit. Little Rocky got knocked down by ancient Archie and struggled for 9 to put the grandfather away. Only 14 months later Patterson walks through Moore without blinking in only 5. What Marciano sees convinces him to stay retired inorder to save face. Hey, Marciano is the one that "QUIT" after a measly 7 years. If he didn't🏃💨 away they undoubtedly would have fought!!! Moore didn't run away!!! Charles didn't run away!!! Joe Louis came out of retirement so he definitely didn't run away!!! Walcott came out of retirement so he definitely didn't run away!!! It's clear as day that Patterson's blinding speed and youth would have been too much for the Rock.
*EZZARD CHARLES WAS 100% FACTUALLY HANDICAPPED WITH LOU GEHRIG'S DISEASE WHEN HE FOUGHT MARCIANO TWICE IN 1954!!!* Ezzard said he first noticed the ailment in 1951, *"after a guy hit me, I didn't seem to be able to get away,"* he recalled, *"I didn't have the same coordination."* Ezzard himself, his family, Ezzard's trainer's Ray Arcel, Jimmy Brown, Chickie Ferrera and Bill Gore all said they noticed signs of ALS in 1951. *--William Dettloff’s book 'Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life'* There's no room for debate, too many reputable witnesses. If in doubt file defamation lawsuits against Ezzard, his family, his trainers and William Dettloff. (Renowned physicist Stephen Hawking lived with ALS for 55 years).
I'm sorry Heavyweight was only 175 lbs back then cuz it sure as hell ain't today. Today's Super Heavyweight world is laughing at Rocky's 49-0 which consisted mainly of natural middleweights masquerading as Heavyweights. *Fact.* He never fought one topnotch genuine 200+lbs Heavyweight. *Fact.* Don't matter how tough the little guy was, ain't no 184 lb man with flyweight reach gonna beat the Giants of modern times. It's no wonder Hall of Fame trainer Emanuel Steward said, *"Marciano was too small. He really wasn't a Heavyweight. 5' 10", exceptionally short arms, very clumsy, cut easy, had troubled balance. 188 lbs was just too small."* @ Emanuel Steward: Ali all time greatest, Klitschko number eight *If size doesn't matter why hasn't there been another 184 lb Heavyweight champion since Little Rocky's Little era 4 generations ago?*
Combined Walcott Charles Moore Louis already had 431 fights before they fought Rocky. Add the 96 fights Louis had during his 4 year military service, that's 527 fights not to mention Walcott and Louis retired for 6½ years. Those four were already ring worn and washed. Anyone that says otherwise is biased.
A good honest decent heavyweight legend, when you have that sort of will to win it doesn't matter who gets put in front of you you are there to win PERIOD!
little *flyweight-reach 184lb-cruiser Rocky's resume:* Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL* Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL* Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL* Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL* Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL* Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL* Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL* Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL* Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL* Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL* Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL* Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL* Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL* Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL* Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.* Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.* Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.* *Even little Rocky's best 3-opponents Charles Moore Walcott (two light heavy's & one cruiser) lost (68) times and were KO'd (20) times!* "In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably." --The Ring
Marciano handlers were afraid to put him in with anyone who could pose much of a threat after coming so close to tasting defeat vs. LaStarza. So his next opponent was *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman who had lost 8 of his last 9 fights. Everybody knew it was a gimme fight for an undefeated fighter. Then there was *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry who had a career 71 wins 68 losses. Marciano's 32nd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Keene Simmons who had a career 8 wins 8 losses. Marciano's 33rd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell who had a career 4 wins 17 losses. Marciano's 34th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Art Henri who had a career 13 wins 14 losses. Marciano's 35th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate who had a career 11 wins 14 losses. *It's clear as day Mafia Boss Frankie Carbo & associate Al Weill padded and cherry-picked Marciano's resume his entire (but very short) career.* Lewis Watson, boxing writer and historian, speaks of the artificial puffing up of records against cherry picked competition saying: “Unbeaten records are fairly padded; you have to look if there are any notable victories coming against first rate competition." *Who did little 184lb-cruiser Rocky fight? He fought nobody notable until Journeyman Walcott who was at least 40 if not older. Walcott never had a birth certificate, he created one in his mid 20s. It's all in his biography, Chapter 9 page 71. Then there was light heavyweight Charles who had symptoms of Lou Gehrig's disease in 1951. It's all in his biography by William Dettloff. Rocky quickly finished his very short career against light heavyweight Archie Moore who was at least 42 if not older. Some "Heavyweight" resume, sad.*
Fer two decades the Marciano's have been tryin to remove this article @ THE ROCK Sports Illustrated Vault Aug\23\1993 but cannot bcz it's all factual!!! Many defamation lawsuits have been filed but all failed. He was seriously messed up. His friends tried to help but he refused. He caused his own demise through his insatiable desire for sex and money.
If 42 year old light heavyweight Moore and 38 year old cruiserweight Walcott could drop little white Rocky then the Tyson's, Foreman's, Klitschko's and Ibeabuchi's of the world woulda kilt him. How can a 185 pound man even be considered an ATG Super Heavyweight when he was barely cruiserweight?
Could you imagine 41 year old light heavyweight Archie Moore busting up King Fury and Big George Foreman or any of the great Super Heavyweights? Yet little white Marciano had all he could handle and was floored with one glancing shot from the light heavyweight grandfather.
Rocky Marciano's record, 49-0, seeing that it looks and sounds so good. That is, until I take a peek at who he actually fought during his career. I feel, that boxing was more unskilled back then, the fighters looked so weak, and the Heavyweight division, in particular, so watered down due to many of the young American men being forced to serve in the Korean War. Marciano, though, seems to mean a lot to people, almost seeming like a symbol for some of them, and brings out some strong assumptions about his place in history. If you for one second question Marciano’s record, it’s as if you comitted some cardinal sin or something. Give me a break. He was a good fighter, but not that good. While I am fond of the Heavyweight division, I don’t really consider Marciano to be a true Heavyweight given his short stature, which, at 5’ 10” 185 lb, he would even be considered small for Cruiserweight in this day and age. However, Marciano’s good luck of fighting during the war years, which had to have had a dramatic effect on the pool of quality opponents to compete with. I mean, it hardly seems sporting that there were so few quality fighters to gauge Marciano’s talent. What’s even worse, Marciano’s career Heavyweight championship rein, a mere three years and 6 six fights, came about, luckily for him, after Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott, had aged beyond their prime, leaving Marciano free to beat up on the older warriors when they weren’t at their best. Probably, for many people, what I’m saying about Marciano, is a bitter pill to swallow, but if you look into his ring history very far, I’m sure most of you would come to the same conclusion. Marciano, at the age of 32, announced his retirement from boxing in April 1956. The announcement was a shock for many people, needless to say, for they figured that Marciano was going to hold onto the title for years to come, and had not seen a fighter quit while at the top. Perhaps the punishment from Moore, and his two ring wars with Charles, gave him a hint that he didn’t have much longer. Or possibly, Marciano might have been hearing the footsteps of the next heavyweight champion, Floyd Patterson, who was a young up and coming contender, with a 30-1 record at the time of Marciano’s retirement. Patterson would later win the vacant heavyweight title, stopping Archie Moore in the 5th round in November 1956, the same year that Marciano retired. Personally, I feel that Marciano was tremendously overrated as a fighter. He was good, yes, but he fought his toughest fights against fighters that were beyond their best years. So, when looking at his accomplishments, one must keep that in mind, otherwise you’re seeing a warped image of how good Marciano really was. Moreover, his ring record of 49-0, was largely built on fighting 2nd and 3rd tier fighters, opponents that were essentially ring fodder and were easily knocked out by decent fighters. The only decent fighters that he beat during his career were LH Moore, LH Charles, LH Matthews, Layne, Lastarza, and Walcott. Not too good, is it? The fact that the vast majority of his opponents were of marginal ability, along with the old age and ring wear of the ones that were good, and you get a beautiful record of 49-0. It looks good on paper, but it hardly means that you were the best.
Rocky Marciano is in my top 5 of the greatest heavyweights of all time. And even if you are 100% right about the quality/age of Rocky’s opponents, was that Rocky’s fault? You can only beat what is in front of you and Rocky certainly did that.
Had little Rocky had a normal duration boxing career like "EVERYONE" else did he would have had to face the likes of Patterson, Machen, Johansson, Liston, Cleveland, Folley, Valdez, Johansson, Cooper, Miteff, London, Mildenberger, Jones, Clay, Terrell, Chuvalo, Bonavena, Quarry, Martin and Ellis just to name a few. Instead he only dealt with "Light" heavyweights similar to Matthews, Lowry, Charles and Moore just to name a few. Little Marciano is damned lucky he "QUIT" when he did!!!
@@jamescokl3 No way , Rock barely beat old Walcott. Today Walcott wins 12 round ud. Marciano never beat Ted Lowry. His manager Al Weill made sure of that. Quarry and Chuvalo both said they would ko Marciano and that Marciano fought bums. I see Liston and Ali on that list . No way the Rock wins these bouts. Rocks new name would be pebbles.
Most people openly admit that the versions of Charles, Moore and Walcott that he fought were far from prime (The Joe Louis and Lee Savold fights really doesn't even deserve to be brought up). So it isn't the quality of Rocky's competition that his reputation is based on among the greats, it is that famous record 49-0. If Rocky's 49-0 record is the basis of his greatness then the fighters on that record should be the very best that were available. But by my reckoning that is the furthest thing from the truth. Infact when you look at the highest ranked fighters of the era, and then you look at his record, it's scandalous how many he didn't fight. Many of the ones he DID choose to fight are just as scandalous. Top fighters Marciano definitely should have fought that he didn't. *1)* Harold Johnson *2)* Oakland Billy Smith *3)* Yolande Pompey *4)* Curtis Hatchetman Sheppherd *5)* Clarence Henry *6)* Joey Maxim *7)* Marty Marshall *8)* Bob Satterfield *9)* Jimmy Bivins *10)* Lloyd Marshall *11)* Nino Valdes Those are just the definites, we could add many other names (like Tommy Jackson, Dan Bucceroni or even Bob Baker) that while not as good, are definitely better than some of the guys he DID fight that make up that "legendary" record. Guys like these; Lee Epperson (Career Record 0-1) Jimmy Weeks (Career Record 0-1) Gilbert Cardone (Career Record 0-3) John Edwards (Career Record 1-2) Bill Hardeman (Career Record 1-7) Humphrey Jackson (Career Record 4-3) Johnnie Pretzie (Career Record 10-14) Bob Jefferson (Career Record 3-10) Gilley Ferron (Career Record 4-13) Tommy DiGiorgio (Career Record 9-15) Artie Donato (Career Record 7-13) Harry Haft (Career Record 12-7) James Connoly (Career Record 12-9) Harry Bilazarian (Career Record 15-12) Joe Dominic (Career Record 18-12) Don Mogard (Career Record 20-16) Jimmy Walls (Career Record 21-41) Eldridge Eatman (Career Record 22-21) according to BoxRec and the Providence Journal, *"Marciano hit Eatman with a right in the 3rd round and Eatman went down, THOUGH IT DIDN'T APPEAR HE WAS HIT"* Not only did Eldridge take a-dive vs. Rocky but he had just lost 8 of his last 9 fights. Why would a 26-0 boxer fight an F-LEVEL diver who had just lost 8 fights? It's clear as day Mafia Boss Carbo and underboss Al Weill cherry picked and padded Rocky's resume! Marciano's 32nd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Keene Simmons who had a career 9 wins 22 losses. Marciano's 33rd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell who had a career 7 wins 16 losses. *(Harold had just lost 10 fights in a row before diving against Rocky)* Marciano's 34th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Art Henri who had a career 18 wins 29 losses. Marciano's 35th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate who had a career 12 wins 16 losses. Immediately *((same day))* after 170-lb diver Eddie Ross was supposedly KO'd by Marciano he drove from Rhode Island Providence to Quebec City Quebec -- 8 hr 15 min 465.9 mi via I-93 N inorder to fight 160-lb Billy Sparks.. ( *"Amazing recovery by Eddie Ross after being KO'd by Rocky Marciano the previous day."* --BoxRec and Providence Journal ) Inspect Eddie's resume, it's hilarious! None of these guys beat anyone of note! Many of these guys he even fought pretty far into his career when there were obviously alternatives. In light of this should this 49-0 record be as revered as it is to some?
Even if Marciano could have fought a prime Moore and a prime Charles he'd still be fightin light heavyweights who were both knocked out by middleweights Marshall and Booker. And even you wanna pretend they were in their primes the point is little Marciano still struggled with light heavyweights.
Y'all fanboys treat little white Marciano as if he were god himself. When he walked the earth shook. Society shouldn't care more about person X just because he was a good boxer. Marciano was no more important than everyday, hard-working people. He only defended his cruiserweight title 6 times. Against middleweight turned "Light" heavyweight Matthews. "Light" heavyweight Charles twice. "Light" heavyweight Moore. A very "unhealthy" Cockell. A very small 184 lb cruiserweight LaStarza. And washed cruiserweight Walcott who lost 20 times and was KOd 6 times... That's it? What's the big deal? What's so great about that? For a world champion title holder that's an extremely weak resume. It don't get no worse than that. And considering his opponents bodyweight it's downright embarrassing.
There are few heavyweight champions in the history of boxing that are better known for their losses than their wins. Jersey Joe Walcott's high profile losses is what elevated his status and built up his credentials, not his wins. During his peak championship years, Walcott scored 7 wins with 5 KO's. Only one of those KO's came against a ranked fighter, that being Ezzard Charles. During this time Walcott also lost 7 times and suffered 10 count KO's 3 times and a 9 count once. In total fights during this time Walcott's record was 7-7. In title fights he went 2-6 with 1 KO win and 3 KO losses. He fought 3 different men in his 8 title fights, was defeated by each of them twice, KO'd by two of them and only defeated one of them. In his overall career, Walcott had a 49-20-1 record and was KO'd 6 times (BoxRec). Based on these less than impressive stats it is difficult to consider him anymore than a good Journeyman. Walcott scored 32 KO's in 70 fights. 8 of them came against fighters who were winless. The only two ranked fighters Walcott ever KO'd was an off the floor 10th round win over Curtis Sheppard and the lightning in the bottle KO of Ezzard Charles. Walcott is a prime example of boxing historians rating a fighter higher than he deserves based on impressive losses. Walcott was winless in all 4 of his fights vs Louis/Marciano and was KO'd 3 times. The fact that Walcott was granted 6 title attempts in a 6 year span speaks volumes about how weak the heavyweight division must have been at this time. Five of these title opportunities came immediately after a Walcott loss. Had Walcott been fighting in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 2000's, there is no way he would have been granted this many opportunities after losing so many title attempts. Walcott should at best be remembered not as a great heavyweight champion, but a good C-level Journeyman. *If a fighter today had 20 losses and was KO'd 6 times he'd be considered F-level. Wilder and Joshua only have 5 losses between them yet they are already considered has-beens. But it's perfectly fine for Walcott Charles Moore to have 68 Losses. Lennox Lewis was KO'd 2 times and his top-10 ranking has suffered ever since. But it's perfectly fine for Walcott Charles Moore to have been KO'd 20 times!!! Double standard. If King Fury losses just "ONE" time his top-10 credibility will be in jeopardy forever. Double standard.
From the May/June 1957 British Edition of The Ring... Y'all can listen to why he actually retired in his own words @ The Rocky Marciano Archives, "Rocky Marciano reasons for retirement." ..Rocky explains that his wife had absolutely *"NOTHING"* to do with his retirement and he had *"ZERO INJURIES!!!"* Little 184lb cruiser Rocky was *"a-QUITTER"* plain and simple. He also quit on his own kids and wife!!! He said he retired for them but it was all a lie!!! He immediately abandoned them to sleep with thousands then left them penniless!!! '"He constantly had •••ies night and day...I carried a suitcase full of electric massagers and oils.'" -@ THE ROCK Sports Illustrated Vault | SI 1993/08/23
Another f,n jealous of rocky because he was,nt black, he beat everyone's ass. And he would beat all of your not so super big overweight terrible timing heavyweights of this era too.
The "Rock" had a great pro debut against the formidable Lee Epperson. It was a scheduled 4 round fight. Lee was rough and ready at 0-0 and after losing this fight he never fought again. He finished his pro career at 0-1.
@Boots_on_the_ground Big Lee was the first of many cream puffs to step into the ring with Marciano. Secondly, many of Marciano's "professional" fights were only scheduled for four rounds like an amateur bout would be.
@@PanchoBotas "Twelve-round fights are predominantly used when a world championship or other major title such as European or interim world title is on the line. In other circumstances, such as when a new boxer debuts or is still working their way up the ranks, the promoters of both fighters involved may agree that a shorter distance is appropriate. Many debutants begin with four-round fights and work their way up through six, eight and 10-rounders until they are ready for championship bouts." I guess you weren't aware of that. In the fight you refer to, it was Marciano's first fight, it was Epperson's first fight. Are you some kind of fool?
What Marciano did to his family is unforgivable. During his retirement speech, and during his appearance on the Ed Sullivan show he said, "I want to spend more time with my family." *IT WAS ALL A LIE.* He immediately abandoned his kids and wife to sleep with thousands then left them penniless @ *Aug\23\1993 -- THE ROCK Sports Illustrated Vault*
The 1950s was all about the Light heavyweights, not the Heavyweights. Light heavyweights Moore, Charles, Maxim, Bivins, Johnson, Pastrano, Marshall, Matthews, Haft, Lowry, Applegate, Jefferson, etc, fought back and forth amongst themselves 40+times. Besides Light heavyweights Charles and Moore, another boxer that caused havoc for little Marciano was Cruiserweight Walcott who lost to Light heavyweight's Charles 'twice', Fox 'twice', Maxim, Brothers, Taylor, AND middleweights Mays, Palmer, Ketchell. Overall Walcott Lost (20) times and was KOd (6) times. Walcott's most notable victories include wins over Light heavy Charles, Light heavy Maxim, and Light heavy Johnson. Charles Lost (25) times and was KOd (7) times. Maxim Lost (29) times and was KO'd (1) time. Johnson Lost (11) times and was KO'd (5) times. Journeyman Joe lost throughout his entire career, beginning, middle, end. He fought for the title 6 times and lost 5 times. Walcott is Not an ATG. At best he is a C-level Journeyman. In summary Marciano's 3 best opponents were 2 Light heavyweights and 1 Cruiserweight. To make matters worse Moore was factually 41yrs old, and Walcott was 39 when he intentionally took a dive for his last giant paycheck. *Rocky Marciano himself fought 2 *middleweights*, Eddie Ross and Harry Bilazarian.
Chuck Wepner who fought both Liston and Foreman said that compared to Liston, Foreman was Mr. Friendly. He said that getting hit by George was like getting hit by an incredibly strong man, getting hit by Sonny was like getting hit by a baseball bat. Wepner left the ring of the Liston fight looking like he had just been in a horrific car accident. The fight was stopped by ring doctor after the 9th round, Wepner had 6 massive cuts to his face that required the most ever 338 stitches[1] and was pouring blood everywhere, his left eye was swollen completely shut, his cheek as well as nose were broken. 1. Chuck describes his record 338 stitches -- 'Chuck Wepner interview with Tony Polito' @14:20 ( Liston expert, Paul Gallender said, "Sonny Liston was killed by the mobsters, with a heroin overdose, because he didn’t throw the Wepner fight")
The great white hope Marciano battered Don Cockell, another light heavyweight masquerading as a Heavyweight. Rock was the biggest phony ever, how in the hell could boxing allow such deceit, they must legitimize his legacy so they brought out of retirement an OLD, RETIRED, AND COMPLETELY BROKE, JOE LOUIS
Rocky's opponents Charles Walcott Moore Savold Lowry Layne Cockell Wilson Shkor Walls Henri Simmons Eatman Muscato & Besore Lost *(("'411'"))* times: Charles *(25)* Walcott *(20)* Moore *(23)* Savold *(45)* Lowry *(68)* Layne *(17)* Cockell *(14)* Wilson *(27)* Shkor *(19)* Walls *(41)* Henri *(29)* Simmons *(22)* Eatman *(21)* Muscato *(23)* Besore *(17)* *((411)) Losses and Rocky fans have the audacity to say today's Heavyweights are Bum's HAHAHAHA*
*"SHOW ME A HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION WITHOUT A LOSS AND I'LL SHOW YOU A FIGHTER THAT FOUGHT A LOT OF NOBODIES."* - Lennox Lewis *"NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF BOXING HAS A 185 LB MAN BEAT A PRIME TOP-NOTCH SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT BOXING CHAMPION."* - Ring Magazine
Rocky constantly gets praised for his *("0")* losses. That's not all. Rocky fans also praise Walcott's *(20)* losses, Charles's *(25)* losses and Moore's *(23)* losses. That's *(68)* losses? Why are they getting praised for *(68)* losses? Bcz they fought *(god)* Rocky. Louis lost to Schmeling and catches hell. Tyson lost to Buster Douglas and catches hell. Ali lost to Frazier and catches hell. Bowe lost to Holyfield and catches hell. Liston lost to Marty Marshall and catches hell. Lennox lost twice and catches hell. But Walcott Charles Moore lost *(68)* times and only catch Praise. Doesn't make sense. Or does it? Of course it makes sense, it's called two-faced biased double standard. Combined, Walcott Charles Moore lost *(68)* times and were KO'd *(20)* times. Had little Rocky never existed nobody would even be talkin bout Walcott Charles Moore. Truth is Marciano fans could careless about Walcott Charles Moore otherwise they would never denigrate and belittle other black fighters such as Liston Holmes Tyson. I've studied Marciano extensively and it just dawned on me that is exactly what's happening. Rocky fans always besmirch black fighters EXCEPT for Walcott Charles Moore. I've witnessed it hundreds of times, pure Hate for Liston Holmes Tyson, yet pure Love for Walcott Charles Moore.
I'm sorry Heavyweight was only 175 lbs back then cuz it sure as hell ain't today. Today's Super Heavyweight world is laughing at Rocky's 49-0 which consists mainly of natural middleweights masquerading as Heavyweights. *Fact.* He never fought one topnotch genuine 200+lbs Heavyweight. *Fact.* Don't matter how tough the little guy was, ain't no 184 lb man with flyweight reach gonna beat the Giants of modern times. It's no wonder Hall of Fame trainer Emanuel Steward said, *"Marciano was too small. He really wasn't a Heavyweight. 5' 10", exceptionally short arms, very clumsy, cut easy, had troubled balance. 188 lbs was just too small."* @ Emanuel Steward: Ali all time greatest, Klitschko number eight *If size doesn't matter why hasn't there been another 184 lb Heavyweight champion since Little Rocky's Little era 4 generations ago?*
Even if little white Marciano could have fought a prime Moore and a prime Charles he'd still be fightin light heavyweights who were both knocked out by middleweights Marshall and Booker. And even you wanna pretend they were in their primes the point is little Marciano still struggled with light heavyweights.
The decathlon is one of the best, if not the best test for speed/strength/endurance. The oldest any World or Olympic Champion has ever been is 32 (Roman Sebrle). This would leave one to believe that after 32 athletes will have started to decline- if not earlier. Boxers are only ever measured against their opponents, the best boxers that Marciano ever fought were undoubtedly past their prime. Marciano quit at 31 for a reason. It was because he grew weary of his training regimen.
Rocky fought everyone who was put in front of him and beat them all. And knocked out 43 o them. The reason he retired at 31 was because of his back injury. HIs style was tough on his back friend.
From the May/June 1957 British Edition of The Ring... Y'all can listen to why he actually retired in his own words @ The Rocky Marciano Archives, "Rocky Marciano reasons for retirement." ..Rocky explains that his wife had absolutely *"NOTHING"* to do with his retirement and he had *"ZERO INJURIES!!!"* Little 184lb cruiser Rocky was *"a-QUITTER"* plain and simple. He also quit on his own kids and wife!!! He said he retired for them but it was all a lie!!! He immediately abandoned them to sleep with thousands then left them penniless!!! '"He constantly had •••ies night and day...I carried a suitcase full of electric massagers and oils.'" -@ THE ROCK Sports Illustrated Vault | SI 1993/08/23
@@johnreidy2804 From the May/June 1957 British Edition of The Ring... Y'all can listen to why he actually retired in his own words @ The Rocky Marciano Archives, "Rocky Marciano reasons for retirement." ..Rocky explains that his wife had absolutely *"NOTHING"* to do with his retirement and he had *"ZERO INJURIES!!!"* Little 184lb cruiser Rocky was *"a-QUITTER"* plain and simple. He also quit on his own kids and wife!!! He said he retired for them but it was all a lie!!! He immediately abandoned them to sleep with thousands then left them penniless!!! '"He constantly had •••ies night and day...I carried a suitcase full of electric massagers and oils.'" -@ THE ROCK Sports Illustrated Vault | SI 1993/08/23
Louis bravely fought *(17)* years...........little Rocky only *7* years Walcott bravely fought *(23)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years Charles bravely fought *(20)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years Moore bravely fought *(27)* years.........little Rocky only *7* years Savold bravely fought *(19)* years........little Rocky only *7* years Matthews bravely fought *(19)* years...little Rocky only *7* years LaStarza bravely fought *(14)* years.....little Rocky only *7* years Cockell bravely fought *(10)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years Lowry bravely fought *(16)* years.........little Rocky only *7* years Louis fought *(69)* times.............little Rocky quit at *49* Walcott fought *(70)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49* Charles fought *(121)* times.......little Rocky quit at *49* Moore fought *(220)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49* Savold fought *(142)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49* Matthews fought *(103)* times.. .little Rocky quit at *49* LaStarza fought *(66)* times.......little Rocky quit at *49* Cockell fought *(81)* times..........little Rocky quit at *49* Lowry fought *(150)* times..........little Rocky quit at *49* Charles Lost *(25)* times and was KOd *(7)* times Moore Lost *(23)* times and was KO'd *(7)* times Walcott Lost *(20)* times and was KOd *(6)* times Savold Lost *(43)* times and was KO'd *(12)* times Lowry Lost *(68)* times and was KO'd *(3)* times Cockell Lost *(14)* times and was KO'd *(9)* times LaStarza Lost *(9)* times and was KO'd *(2)* times *Shocking isn't it? We never see these stats bcz they're always suppressed. Today's Genuine Super Heavyweights Zhang Bakole Joshua Fury Ruiz Parker Kabayel Itauma Jalolov Anderson Dubois only have a combined (15) losses yet they're already being thrown under the bus for eternity but it's perfectly fine for little Rocky's little light heavy opposition masquerading as little cruisers to have a combined ((684)) losses!!!* *HOW MANY LOSSES DID THE "'BEST"' HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONS OF ALL TIME HAVE:* Lewis --------- *2* Holmes ------ *6* Ali -------------- *5* Vitali ----------- *2* Foreman ---- *5* Tyson -------- *6* Wladimir ---- *5* Bowe --------- *1* Liston -------- *4* Louis --------- *3* Holyfield -- *10* Frazier ------- *4* Norton ------- *7* Tunney ------ *1* Dempsey --- *6* Johnson --- *11* *"SHOW ME A HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION WITHOUT A LOSS AND I'LL SHOW YOU A FIGHTER THAT FOUGHT A LOT OF NOBODIES"* -- Lennox Lewis
I come to feel that "Yeah, but what if" is disrespectful to Marciano's accomplishments in boxing. I didn't always feel that way about him. I've come to admire him greatly because he was a fellow working class man, and so was his father. All known heavyweight champions have lost at least one fight, and Marciano is no different in that regard. (I don't care whether the adult men combatants were fighting for prize money or not. A loss is a loss) However, you must give him respect for the record he had and the number of knockouts.
Hall of Fame Heavyweight Champion Sonny Liston was a muscular 6′2″ powerhouse weighing 220 lbs of pure brick. He had iron in either fist and could put an opponent on the mat quickly with either. Sonny was the most ducked fighter of all time. Even Joe Frazier’s team refused to fight him. Liston in his prime was the real deal. He was a great fighter.
Patterson's easy defeat of Archie Moore was most impressive at such a young age. He took Moore out a lot easier and a lot sooner than Marciano did. Also with much less effort and much less punches. Floyd Patterson still remains the youngest undisputed Heavyweight champion.
Different style of fighters. Joe Frazier gave muhammed Ali a run for his money for 3 grueling fights. Yet feel to foreman in not even 4 rounds twice. Than you have Muhammad Ali who not only defeated foreman but put him out of the spotlight for over a decade.
@@vikinghoodbluelighthouse2911 *When "The President" Nigerian Ike Ibeabuchi met "The Tuamanator" Samoan David Tua the Nigerian got out to an insanely fast start, throwing 91 punches in round one according to CompuBox, 91 again in round two, and 95 in round three, obscene numbers for a Heavyweight. By the final bell, Ibeabuchi and Tua had combined to throw 1,730 punches, breaking the Heavyweight record set by Ali vs. Frazier III, when they combined for 1,591 punches - in 14 rounds, two rounds more than Ibeabuchi and Tua had to work with. Ike threw 975 punches, the most ever by a single Heavyweight. Both fighters had a brawling fight style, they were both 24 years old at the time of this epic "tribal" battle and they were both undefeated going in to this fight. 226lb Tua's record stood at 27-0-0 23KO's while 236lb Ibeabuchi's record stood at 16-0-0 12KO's. This fight is the stuff that dreams were made of. Two Super Heavyweight warriors stood toe to toe exhibiting exceptional heart and endurance. Both boxers threw bombs and neither took a backward step.* ("The Tuamanator" would have obliterated light heavyweights Charles-n-Moore and "The President" woulda walked through little Marciano and Walcott as if they were invisible.) Marciano was good during his little post war era three generations ago but he would not be relevant against today's top-notch Super Heavyweights similar to: Undefeated 263lb Makhmudov Undefeated 248lb Sanchez Undefeated 247lb Hrgovic Undefeated 245lb Anderson Undefeated 275lb Fury just to name a few. And then there's so many other real-Heavyweights little Rocky couldn't handle similar to: Lewis Bowe Vitali Ruddock Witherspoon Grant Bruno Holmes Ali Foreman Liston Tyson Usyk Wladimir Ruiz Parker Ortiz Dokes Lyle Thomas Weaver Briggs Morrison Cooney Wilder *I could "easily" list another Twenty-Five!!!*
@@vikinghoodbluelighthouse2911 Soft spoken Lennox Lewis at his best was the total package. When he fought seriously he was pretty much untouchable. The last undisputed Super Heavyweight champion emerged as cream of the crop against some of the biggest punchers in Heavyweight history. Lewis avenged his only two defeats by knockout. He didn't make excuses for his only two losses, he said, "It's Heavyweights, you can get caught, but i won the rematches in style," and "Show me a Heavyweight Champion without a loss and i'll show you a fighter that fought a lot of nobodies." Lewis haters always say, "but he got knocked out twice ha-ha." Well i say, "Mike Tyson got knocked out FIVE times ha-ha, and Ali lost his best 30 years of retirement from having his faculties traumatized for an entire decade. Watching his head used as catchers mitt 100,000 times was ha-ha. IT'S NOT HOW YOU START IT'S HOW YOU FINISH." 57 year old Lennox is the GOAT. To hear him talk so clearly and eloquently after going up against 18 Heavyweight Champions is remarkable. *The 18 HW Champions Lewis faced: Vitali Klitschko, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Shannon Briggs, Frank Bruno, Tony Tucker, Hasim Rahman, Oliver McCall, Mike Weaver, Henry Akinwande, Tommy Morrison and Ray Mercer were later recognized as WBO champions, British HW champion Gary Mason, European HW champion Jean Chanet, Commonwealth HW champion Derek Williams, Canada HW champion Razor Ruddock, IBF/WBF HW champion Michael Grant, and WBC International HW champion David Tua...*[[ technically not all were 'World' champions but champions nonetheless ]].* Other notable mentions; *Olympic HW Silver medalist Riddick Bowe, Olympic HW Gold medalist Tyrell Briggs, Andrew Golota, Zeljko Mavrovic, Frans Botha and Phil Jackson* ..Name another Super Heavyweight with a better resume? Only person i can think of is Wladimir Klitschko. How many *"prime"* 200+lb HW Champions did 185-lb dwarfism-arms fight? *""ZERO""!!!!* Imagine little Marciano tryin to fight top-notch Super Heavyweights with 80" to 86" albatross wingspans and 40 to 90-lb weight advantages? Light heavyweight Ezzard Charles was definitely Marciano's toughest opponent and is the only person that took him 15 rounds even *with ALS!!!* *ESPN Ringside - Rocky Marciano @**35:01** Bert Sugar said, "His trainer, Ray Arcel said, that even now, at this stage in 51, and then on into the middle 50s, you could see the beginning, the traces of the disease, that would later claim his life, Lou Gehrig's disease in Charles."* *People forget when they talk about the fights between Marciano and Ezzard Charles that Charles was showing symptoms of ALS. William Dettloff’s book Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life documents that Charles first felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 1951 - before he battled Rocky Marciano, Charles was already suffering from the symptoms of ALS, (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis), also known as “Lou Gehrig’s disease.” It is notable when around the time Charles lost to Joe Walcott in 1951, Dettloff records that his family had noticed signs of what they would learn later was ALS.* *In summary:* Ray Arcel who loved Ezzard like a son, said, *"Charles had traces of ALS in 51."* Ezzard's own family members said, *"they noticed signs of ALS in 51."* Ezzard Charles (himself) said he, *"felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 51."* *Trying to deny the fact that Charles had weakness in his limbs (ALS) against Marciano in 1954 is not possible because the eye test does not lie. It happened and is well documented so it can never be swept under the carpet. That horrible Motor neurone gene presented itself in 1951 if not earlier. Ezzard Charles was only 53 when he passed - Rest easy champ.*
Marciano's style will play into Liston’s giant hands, as it will violate one of boxing’s holy grail rules and that is, “never slug with a bigger slugger.” Especially when that slugger’s name is Sonny Liston; simply put Liston does it all better than Marciano and also has height, weight and major reach advantage. I can see Liston’s jab being an even more formidable weapon than usual in this matchup, as he won’t have to go looking for Marciano. To put the concept of reach into perspective, you have Liston with a monster 84” reach compared to little Marciano’s 67” reach- this would be decisive. I would favour Liston in a big way. Rocky gets flattened faster than Floyd Patterson.
Sonny had an-albatross 84 inch reach. Rocky had a-stubby 67 inch reach. A 17 inch reach advantage is a tall order to overcome, but when the man with the reach advantage is the most fearsome puncher in history it’s insurmountable. Marciano’s style was tailor made for Liston. Rocky would get knocked into tomorrow before he could get close enough to land any damaging shots of his own. Liston’s power and reach would have been too much for the plodding face first style of Marciano.
So Marciano threw 100 punches in a round? Lol give me a break. Number one Marciano only weighed 185. So even if he threw 100 punches in a round what would that prove? Why compare a light heavyweight punch numbers to a true-Heavyweight. Only sik-minded fanboys would even try to compare.
Little white Marciano could train 1000 years but prime Ali would still crush him. Since Marciano struggled with light heavyweight Charles who was a good boxer, but was smaller weaker and slower than Ali, what makes you think he'd do better against Ali?
Could you imagine 41 year old light heavyweight Archie Moore busting up King Fury and Big George Foreman or any of the great Super Heavyweights? Yet Marciano had all he could handle and was floored with one glancing shot from the light heavyweight grandfather.
One would think since Marciano was only 185 that he would at least have faster hands than the true Heavyweights right? But Maricano had the slowest hands I've ever seen on a boxer.
I quite enjoyed the 100 Greatest Heavyweight series, and it got me thinking about how nice a boost *"Time"* tends to give to a fighters ranking. 1962: In December 1962, a Ring magazine poll of 40 boxing experts had Jack Dempsey rated the #1 Heavyweight of all-time, with Joe Louis 2nd, Jack Johnson 3rd and Marciano 7th. 1971: In 1971, Nat Fleischer, boxing's most famous historian and also editor and founder of Ring magazine , named Marciano as the all-time 10th greatest Heavyweight champion. 1998: Despite the intervening years producing the likes of Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, Klitschko's et al.," in 1998, Ring magazine named Marciano as the 6th greatest Heavyweight champion ever. 2005: We float around to 2005, and Marciano was named the 5th greatest Heavyweight of all-time by the International Boxing Research Organization. 2007: In 2007, Marciano was named the 4th greatest Heavyweight of all-time by ESPN behind (in order) Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, and Rocky Marciano. 2023: We skip to the modern day, and somehow he's been bumped up to 3rd. Will he one day be greater than Ali??? It's easy to see little Rocky's progression. The key is understanding *why?* Despite his perfect record against the weakest 'Heavyweight' division of all-time, Marciano was never close to being rated towards the top throughout the 60s and 70s. So why did he climb from *10th* in 71, *6th* in 98, to *4th* in 07??? Bcz the greatest boxing historian whoever lived and founder of The Ring Mr. Boxing himself Nat Fleischer died in 72. They all started passing away including Rocky in 69. That's when his fame really started to grow. *After his death is when all the sympathy articles begin to appear. Then it just grew and grew to the point where he could walk on water and beat every Super Heavyweight champion with ease. Little Rocky was so awesome that even Don Turner said, "Marciano could KO both Klitschko brothers at the same time!"* *Little Marciano was faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. The Italian infant of Krypton was Superman. He broke 1,247 bones, knocked out 4,679 teeth, and ruptured 792 blood vessels. I also know for a fact that little Rocky is god , because when he walked the earth shook.*
Wow you read in a book that since Marciano trained hard that means he couldn't lose right? Marciano had a strong desire to win? So i guess Frazier wanted Foreman to kick his butt right? Because Frazier had no desire to win....they all wanted to lose. Only Marciano had a desire to win right?
Marciano could train 1000 years but prime Ali would still crush him. Since Marciano struggled with light heavyweight Charles who was a good boxer, but was smaller weaker and slower than Ali, what makes you think he'd do better against Ali?
If 42 year old light heavyweight Moore and 38 year old cruiserweight Walcott could drop Marciano then the Tyson's, Foreman's, Klitschko's and Ibeabuchi's of the world woulda kilt him. How can a 185 pound man even be considered an ATG Super Heavyweight when he was barely cruiserweight?
Marciano said his best weight he ever fought at was, "186lbs." Tyson was 220lbs at his fastest & best. About 235lbs at his heaviest. Rocky didn't have the speed or footwork to keep Tyson away or the skill or technique to keep him off. And saying that Rocky was tough… well,, tough can get you killed in the ring against a super power puncher with superior skills. This fight wouldn't last 2 rounds with a prime Tyson. And a non-prime Tyson would still be heavier and stronger. Rocky never faced anyone of merit who was near their prime. You wouldn't want Tyson to be your first. Bigger, faster, stronger. With malicious intent. No way Rocky would beat a prime Iron Mike.
I think if Rocky Marciano was around today, those big talented, heavy weights today would’ve really beat him up and you know you would’ve had cuts and bloody noses. They went a few rounds and they would’ve stopped it no lake take a guy like Lennox Lewis he could’ve killed a guy like Rocky was with his bunches you know because he was just so big, but Rocky still did what he did. He just having to beat the year that he fought and he was heavyweight champion. He did have 49 fights with 49 wins and 43 knockouts and you have to respect that and don’t be calling him little Rocky or baby Rocky OK it’s disrespectful.
Here's the newspaper article about Layne's tooth: "Rex Layne lost a left upper tooth..the tooth broke at the gums when Marciano caught the Utahn in the mouth with a full right hand. Layne was taken immediately after the fight to a New York dentist to have the teeth X-rayed and also for treatment on a broken tooth." Layne's handlers said, "the tooth went out with the gumshield." ...so Rex only sustained ""ONE"" broken tooth!!! He fought Charles exactly 3 months later, so what's the big deal? Folks break their teeth all the time skateboarding or slippin-n-fallin on the ice.
Soft spoken Lennox Lewis at his best was the total package. When he fought seriously he was pretty much untouchable. The last undisputed Super Heavyweight champion emerged as cream of the crop against some of the biggest punchers in Heavyweight history. Lewis avenged his only two defeats by knockout. He didn't make excuses for his only two losses, he said, "It's Heavyweights, you can get caught, but i won the rematches in style," and "Show me a Heavyweight Champion without a loss and i'll show you a fighter that fought a lot of nobodies." Lewis haters always say, "but he got knocked out twice ha-ha." Well i say, "Mike Tyson got knocked out FIVE times ha-ha, and Ali lost his best 30 years of retirement from having his faculties traumatized for an entire decade. Watching his head used as catchers mitt 100,000 times was ha-ha. IT'S NOT HOW YOU START, IT'S HOW YOU FINISH." 57 year old Lennox is the GOAT. To hear him talk so clearly and eloquently after going up against 18 Heavyweight Champions is remarkable. The 18 HW Champions Lewis faced: Vitali Klitschko, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Shannon Briggs, Frank Bruno, Tony Tucker, Hasim Rahman, Oliver McCall, Mike Weaver, Henry Akinwande, Tommy Morrison and Ray Mercer were later recognized as WBO champions, British HW champion Gary Mason, European HW champion Jean Chanet, Commonwealth HW champion Derek Williams, Canada HW champion Razor Ruddock, IBF/WBF HW champion Michael Grant, and WBC International HW champion David Tua...*[[ technically not all were 'World' champions but champions nonetheless ]]. Other notable mentions; Olympic HW Silver medalist Riddick Bowe, Olympic HW Gold medalist Tyrell Briggs, Andrew Golota, Zeljko Mavrovic, Frans Botha and Phil Jackson. Name another Super Heavyweight with a better resume? Only person i can think of is Wladimir Klitschko. How many "prime" 200+lb HW Champions did 184 pound dwarfism-arms fight? ""ZERO""!!!! A small penguin actually has a longer wingspan than Rocky's 67" inch flyweight reach. Imagine penguin arms tryin to fight top-notch Super Heavyweights with 80" to 85" albatross wingspans and 40 to 90 pound weight advantages? 184 pounds give me a break,, what a Joke!
Mike Tyson was gifted with type II fast-twitch muscle fibers. He came out the gate sprinting like 220 pound Quarter 🐎 Horse, while little white 185 pound Marciano came out the gate shuffling forward like Little 🐢Turtle. 1980's 20yr old phenom Mike easily KO's Rocky 10 outta 10 times!
Little white 184 lb Marciano had a featherweight arm reach of 67" inches. Imagine penguin🐧arms Rocky trying to fight authentic Super Heavyweights with 50 to 80+ pound weight advantages and 80" to 85" arm reaches? What an embarrassment Rocky would have been today.
Rocky was a great fighter.However,I don’t think he was overrated.He and the heavyweights during & frankly, heavyweights before the Rock’s time,were small heavyweights.All one can do is fight the fighters of his time.I don’t think he would’ve gone undefeated if he fought at anytime that Jack Johnson was champion,up until the time he was champion because of the rules with the neutral corner.I think he would’ve been beaten by Jack Johnson & Jack Dempsey but would’ve also beaten them if they fought multiple times because he adjusted damn well in fights in which he had rematches in & left no doubt that he was thee man! I think an early Joe Louis would’ve gotten him but it’s hard to definitively say.Everyone else,after Joe Louis up until Rocky’s reign,whether in their prime or not,i think they would’ve gotten knocked out because his pressing style & how hard he hit was too overwhelming! He would’ve easily beaten Floyd Patterson & Johansson because they were also small with glass chins.From Sonny Liston on up,he would’ve had problems because of their size & and the boxing styles had changed,thanks to Ali..with a few exceptions…I think he would’ve beaten guys that may have been big,could punch but lacked stamina or the ability to gain a second wind,like Norton,Jimmy Ellis,Ernie Shavers,Leon Spinks,Tommy Morrison,Quarry,Terell,Cleveland Williams,Wilder,Frazier because he was a slow starter.He couldn’t be a slow starter with Rocky & rebound in my opinion…& a few others.The man could definitely fight! No doubt about it!
1950s were about the Light heavyweights "Not" the Heavyweights. Light heavyweights Moore, Charles, Maxim, Bivins, Johnson, Pastrano, Marshall, Matthews, Haft, Lowry, Applegate, Jefferson etc, fought back and forth amongst themselves 40+times. Besides Light heavyweights Charles and Moore, another boxer that caused havoc for little Marciano was Cruiserweight Walcott who lost to Light heavyweight's Charles 'twice',, Fox 'twice',, Maxim,, Brothers,, Taylor,, AND "middleweights" Mays,, Palmer,, Ketchell. Overall Walcott Lost (20) times and was KOd (6) times. Walcott's most notable victories include wins over Light heavy Charles, Light heavy Maxim, and Light heavy Johnson. Charles Lost (25) times and was KOd (7) times. Maxim Lost (29) times and was KO'd (1) time. Johnson Lost (11) times and was KO'd (5) times. Journeyman Joe lost throughout his entire career, beginning, middle, end. He fought for the title 6 times and lost 5 times. Walcott is "Not" an ATG. At best he is C-level Journeyman. In summary Marciano's 3 best opponents were two Light heavyweights and one Cruiserweight. To make matters worse Moore was factually 41yrs old and Walcott was 39 when he intentionally took a dive for his last huge paycheck. *Marciano even fought two "middleweights" Eddie Ross and Harry Bilazarian.
Hall of Fame Heavyweight Champion Sonny Liston was a muscular 6′2″ powerhouse weighing 220 lbs of pure brick. He had iron in either fist and could put an opponent on the mat quickly with either. Sonny was the most ducked fighter of all time. Even Joe Frazier’s team refused to fight him. Liston in his prime was the real deal. He was a great fighter.
Yes Bro 🙏 The Marfia isn't the Italian People. I've worked for Italian People here in Australia many years ago. And it didn't take long for me to see they were very generous of they were happy with your work effort.. Free Italian Beer make's me work harder ❤
Vitali Klitschko 6' 7½″ 250 lbs KOs 87% with 80" reach had 47 pro fights and only lost twice due to horrible cut and torn rotator cuff. He never hit the canvas and was never behind on judges scorecards after the 2nd round. Vitali had tremendous power, granite chin and great determination with PhD-intelligence. He would have been Huge factor in any decade.
If 42 year old light heavyweight Moore and 38 year old cruiserweight Walcott could drop Marciano then the Tyson's, Foreman's, Klitschko's and Ibeabuchi's of the world woulda kilt him. How can a 185 pound man even be considered an ATG Super Heavyweight when he was barely cruiserweight?
@@MORCOPOLO0817 cannot handle Truth? he was simply too small to be effective at Heavyweight today. He'd be lucky to be ranked in today's light heavyweight division. LH Beterbiev would annihilate little Rocky 10 out of 10 times!!!
@@Bobby.D.1776 You have been watching too many Mobster movies thinking the Mob would have fixed things for Rocky. He was as real as it comes not help from anyone. You obviously know nothing about him.
I quite enjoyed the 100 Greatest Heavyweight series, and it got me thinking about how nice a boost *"Time"* tends to give to a fighters ranking. 1962: In December 1962, a Ring magazine poll of 40 boxing experts had Jack Dempsey rated the #1 Heavyweight of all-time, with Joe Louis 2nd, Jack Johnson 3rd and Marciano 7th. 1971: In 1971, Nat Fleischer, boxing's most famous historian and also editor and founder of Ring magazine , named Marciano as the all-time 10th greatest Heavyweight champion. 1998: Despite the intervening years producing the likes of Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, Klitschko's et al.," in 1998, Ring magazine named Marciano as the 6th greatest Heavyweight champion ever. 2005: We float around to 2005, and Marciano was named the 5th greatest Heavyweight of all-time by the International Boxing Research Organization. 2007: In 2007, Marciano was named the 4th greatest Heavyweight of all-time by ESPN behind (in order) Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, and Rocky Marciano. 2023: We skip to the modern day, and somehow he's been bumped up to 3rd. Will he one day be greater than Ali??? It's easy to see little Rocky's progression. The key is understanding *why?* Despite his perfect record against the weakest 'Heavyweight' division of all-time, Marciano was never close to being rated towards the top throughout the 60s and 70s. So why did he climb from *10th* in 71, *6th* in 98, to *4th* in 07??? Bcz the greatest boxing historian whoever lived and founder of The Ring Mr. Boxing himself Nat Fleischer died in 72. They all started passing away including Rocky in 69. That's when his fame really started to grow. *After his death is when all the sympathy articles begin to appear. Then it just grew and grew to the point where he could walk on water and beat every Super Heavyweight champion with ease. Little Rocky was so awesome that even Don Turner said, "Marciano could KO both Klitschko brothers at the same time!"* *Little Marciano was faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. The Italian infant of Krypton was Superman. He broke 1,247 bones, knocked out 4,679 teeth, and ruptured 792 blood vessels. I also know for a fact that little Rocky is god , because when he walked the earth shook.*
Ring Magazine polled 40 boxing experts on who was the greatest Heavyweight of all-time in 1962. These are historians who were actually there when he reigned as champion and Marciano's highest ranking was 7th place. The overwhelming majority rated him lower like Nat Fleischer had him at # 10, Charley Rose and McCallum's survey of old-timers rated him at # 9. All these people were born in the late 1800s and passed away in the 1960s and 70s. Little 184lb Marciano is regarded by many as the greatest Heavyweight ever, best of the best. The question is how does he stack up with the Mount Rushmore of Heavyweights?? I don't see how his status remotely moves up with the multitude of great Heavyweights that came after him. All the professionals, trainers, managers, experts and historians who actually saw Rocky Marciano fight during the 50s and 60s thoroughly examined his career yet they barely ranked him top-10 Heavyweight, of all-time. *I trust Nat's opinion before y'all's gibberish casual diatribe.* Genius Nat Fleischer (1887-1972) was the founder, president, publisher and editor of The Ring, a monthly magazine devoted to boxing and professional wrestling. Fleischer is called Mr. Boxing, or in the cant of masters of ceremony, "Mr. Boxing, himself," an introduction uniting man and legend. Fleischer’s story in many ways is the story of boxing. His experience is unlike that of anyone else from boxing’s past and certainly no one will ever be able to make his claims in the future. In 1958 Fleischer wrote, “I have been on intimate terms with every heavyweight champion since James J. Corbett. I have seen almost every heavyweight championship bout in the past half century, and most of those in other divisions that reach across a stretch of many exciting years.” Fleischer in fact saw every heavyweight champion from Jim Jeffries and Jack Johnson to Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier from ringside, most of those from the first row. Possibly no one else in history can make that claim. Fleischer’s unique perspective demands respect from those who are interested in the history of boxing. Nat tended to just report the fights as he saw it from ringside and did not editorialize too much. Nat was well known for his ability to break down and describe the styles of fighters and the action that took place in the ring. Here are some descriptions of fighters there is film on so we can compare what Nat said of them to what we know from the films. We can then know that what he said about fighters whom we have little film on is also accurate. Of Joe Louis he penned, in the April 1939 Ring, “He sails in, crashes his blows to the body and head, gives the opposition little chance to get set for a counter-attack and wards off blows with the cleverness of a Jack Johnson. Only Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey compare to Joe Louis of today in all around ability...No human body can take the punishment that Jolting Joe dishes out once he goes after his prey. That has been proved conclusively in his last few contests.” In the Mar. 1942 Ring, after Louis' destruction of the 6'6" 250 pound Buddy Baer, Nat Said that “Not even in the second fight with Max Schmeling did the Detroit Destroyer show as much as he did against Buddy. Joe had everything. He was magnificent. He was a whirlwind on attack, a master of defense, a terror with his devastating punches.” In evaluating Rocky Marciano he wrote December 1955 Ring, “Those who believe that he lacks the necessary qualifications for gaining a niche in the fistic hall of fame as one of the greatest heavyweights of all time won’t argue that as a puncher, he takes his place alongside such greats as Jeffries, Louis and Dempsey. They limit his qualifications for greatness to the category of “hitting power”, strength and durability all of which Rocky possesses to a high degree but which are *insufficient to gain for him a place among the greats of the past.”* “Despite his crudeness, he can move about the ring at a pretty fast gate and can toss more punches than any heavyweight of recent years. But misses more frequently than any champion I’ve ever seen.” *“He has faced very few real punchers during his career.* The two best, Walcott and Moore- both thirty-eight at the time-had Rocky on the canvas. *Joe Louis is not included* since when he met Rocky, the Brown Bomber had long since lost his once devastating punch.” Besides putting out the highly regarded Ring-Fleischer has published Nat Fleischer's Ring Record Book and Boxing Encyclopedia.The Ring Record Book is the most comprehensive of all annual reference sources on boxing. Mainly in the interests of boxing, Fleischer has made 37 trips to Europe and has gone around the world six times, furiously writing all the while. He has 20 passports. Discounting entertainers, Fleischer is the most widely known U.S. private citizen abroad. He is enshrined in the Helms Hall of Fame in Los Angeles. Fleischer has refereed and judged more than 1,000 fights. All told, Fleischer has published 57 books of history, biography and instruction on boxing. Fleischer has a 268,800-word "bibliography" of boxing. Counting his articles for The Ring and serials and pieces he dashes off in an hour or so for foreign publications, it has been estimated that Fleischer has written 40 million words in his lifetime.
It's no wonder D'Amato didn't want his Floyd Patterson to go anywhere near him. Patterson was a smart boxer with good movement and speedy-fast hands but Liston was a monster, and it showed when they finally got in the ring together.. But Patterson did obliterate light heavyweight Archie Moore like a hot spoon going through butter. Grandfather Archie effortlessly dropped little Rocky and battered his face into hamburger. What a joke Marciano was, all hype. Only 185 pounds with dwarfism-arms LOL 😂
@@jdamsel8212 Little Rocky was 31yrs of age. Moore was at least 42 if not older. You forgot that part. Put little Rocky at 42+yrs of age and little light heavyweight Moore at 31. You forgot that part.
@@jdamsel8212 Moore wasn't flat-lined. Moore did an interview in the ring immediately after the fight and he was perfectly fine. Grandfather Moore was simply exhausted bcz of his age.
*Joe Louis' 8 fight winning streak which helped him become the #1 ranked contender before he faced 184 lb tiny cruiser Marciano. Below is the 6 opponents ring-worn and washed (as evidenced by scoring only 2 KO's in his last 12 fights) Joe beat:* *1.* 196 lb Cesar Brian had an abysmal 36% KO's. *Brian's career record of 49 wins 11 losses looks okay until ya see 25 of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians.* *2.* 191 lb Freddie Beshore had an abysmal 24% KO's. His career record was 28 wins 10 losses. *5' 9" Beshore was on a 4 fight losing streak before he faced Joe. Why would Joe even consider fighting someone who had just lost 4 fights? We all know why!* *3.* 187 lb Omelio Agramonte. *Oh wow, oh my, i watched their entire fight and Joe looked terrible, absolutely terrible. What was Joe thinking? He should have stayed retired. Omelio looked as if he only weighed 165 lbs.* *4.* 194 lb Andy Walker had an abysmal 17% KO's. His career record was 18 wins 20 losses. *It's clear as day what's going on here.* *5.* 188 lb Omelio Agramonte -- *Why Twice? We all know why!* *6.* 190 lb Lee Savold. Even the announcer said, *"Joe Louis reflexes are but a memory."* These two should have been retired. *They just pushed Louis through towards Marciano so everyone could fill their pockets with $$$.* Savold had a career 45 losses and was KO'd 12 times. *7.* 197 lb Cesar Brian -- *Why Twice? We all know why!* *8.* Jimmy Bivins weighed 151 vs. Morgan who weighed 146 in 1940. 5' 8.8" (1.75 m) 180 lb light heavyweight Bivins (vs. Louis) had an abysmal 27% KO's. *Yes Bivins was Hall of Famer. But he was a Hall of Famer @ light heavyweight, not Heavyweight. This is the "Heavyweight" division we're talking about right?* *Talk about bum-of-the-month-club WOW. It was obviously a predetermined carefully hand-picked set-up against featherfisted opposition.* *Boxing-elites, Italian-mafioso, and the IRS really needed Joe to be ranked #1 inorder to get their Louis vs. Marciano $$-SHOW-$$. The only loyalty the Italian-mob had was to $$$. Hey, they took 50% of Marciano's earnings and all ticket sales, all in all $2 Million. $2 Million in 1955 is equivalent to $21 Million today.*
The greatest heavy weight ever Clay might of thought he was the greatest but he would never of lived with Rocky who retired undefeated that is the class of a World Champion Clay never reached that class & no other world heavy weight Champion did either. Cheers Tippo. GB.
Sonny had an-albatross 84 inch reach. Rocky had a-stubby 67 inch reach. A 17 inch reach advantage is a tall order to overcome, but when the man with the reach advantage is the most fearsome puncher in history it’s insurmountable. Marciano’s style was tailor made for Liston. Rocky would get knocked into tomorrow before he could get close enough to land any damaging shots of his own. Liston’s power and reach would have been too much for the plodding face first style of Marciano.
It's interesting how people who experienced watching him in real time don't hold him in the same high regard as folks later on in spite the multitude of great fighters who came on the scene after he Quit (Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Klitschko's, Fury, etc.). There's a lot of mythology with Marciano and a lot of selective memory about his career. He was brilliantly managed to preserve his undefeated record. But the reality is heart and determination can only get you so far when you're sorely lacking in the physical tools the other greats have. Americans love to glamorize the underdog who gets it done in spite of their limitation, just look at the success of Stallone and his Rocky movie franchise, the movie Rudy, Hoosiers, etc. It is also interesting how the same people who want to consider Rocky the greatest Heavyweight because he was undefeated are reluctant to consider Mayweather the greatest pound for pound. It's just flat lazy to look at 49-0 and conclude that he must be the best ever. Based on that, then you MUST consider Mayweather the greatest pound for pound fighter of all-time since he's 50-0, right?
Maybe little white Rocky could have beaten that circus clown Jess Willard who was paraded around for 4 years without a single fight. Or maybe he could have even beat that other circus clown Primo Carnera who was daily alcoholic (like Andre the Giant) and 100% mafioso controlled. The ‘ambling alp’ was an awful boxer with gigantism or acromegaly (like Andre the Giant). He was promoted as a monster because of his size, but he was really clumsy and couldn`t punch with his full weight, he was completely exposed by Joe Louis who easily battered Primo into submission.
6' 4" 270 lb UFC Heavyweight Champion Francis Ngannou with 83" reach created the hardest punch ever measured. Ngannou recorded a punch of 129,161 units on a PowerKube which produced 93hp. The strongest men all around the World have tried to break his record that's stood since 2018.
Riddick Bowe 6' 5" 240 lbs KOs 73% with 81" reach had a career 43 wins 1 loss. At his peak he was an excellent fundamental boxer, had a great chin, power in both hands, could fight inside or out, and would have been a difficult test for any fighter who ever lived. Trainer Eddie Futch said, "Riddick had more untapped potential than any fighter he had ever known." Bowe was the undisputed Heavyweight Champ in 92 and won the Super Heavyweight silver medal @ the 88 Summer Olympics. Riddick is an ATG Hall of Famer. *Prime 'Big Daddy' Bowe manhandles tiny Rocky as if he were his Daddy!!!*
Larry Holmes made 20 defenses of the heavyweight title over a seven year reign and probably should have retired 48-0. Larry is considered to have the best jab in history. He could use it as an offensive weapon to make openings for his slashing right hand. Holmes possessed a rock-hard chin, huge heart and excellent stamina.
"What could be better than walking down any street and knowing you are the heavyweight champ of the world." - Rocky Marciano
Rocky's huge titanium fists were no different than two 18-wheeler Mack trucks. He wasn't called Rocky Mack for nothing. He was special. I get tears in my eyes just thinking about him. My god he was special.
Rocky was so strong. He hit a special heavy bag that weighed 600 lbs. He was special. Better than everyone else for sure. That's not all. Everyday he ran 25 miles and did 4000 sit-ups. He was head and shoulders above everyone else. My god he was special. One in a billion. Did i mention he was special.
Rocky ran 25 miles daily for 2555 (7 years) days nonstop. Keep in mind a marathon is 26.2 miles. That's not all. In addition to his daily 25 mile runs he'd also include sprinting uphill backwards and shadowboxed under water for an additional 2 hours. Rocky was superhuman and will forever be my Hero.
Rocky was so strong. He hit a special heavy bag that weighed 600 lbs. He was special. Better than everyone else for sure. That's not all. Everyday he ran 25 miles and did 4000 sit-ups. He was head and shoulders above everyone else. My god he was special. One in a billion. Did i mention he was special.
*Lmfao. That quote is a 100% Lie!!! Little Rocky said nobody even noticed him when he was walking around on the streets @ The Marciano Archives*
Best conditioned fighter who ever lived...great heart...power...stamina...chin of iron...ridiculous work rate...hurt you no matter where he hit you...never took a backward step...threw punches in bunches with KO written all over them...broke bone and blood vessels...pain meant nothing...he feared no man...champ from 52 to 56...49-0...43 KO's...a beast in the ring...and class outside of it...put The Rock in with anyone!
Quotes from the book Rocky Marciano: The Rock of his times 2005 author Russell Sullivan
"One of the greatest champs ever." - Sonny Liston
"Hardest puncher I ever fought." - Joe Louis
"The one fighter who might have beaten me." - Muhammad Ali
"My manager waited for him to retire before I dared fight him as a heavyweight." - Floyd Patterson
The hardest puncher I ever saw in 50 years in boxing." - Don Turner, trainer for Evander Holyfield
"Ali wouldn't have tried rope-a-dope on Marciano cause Marciano would have KOd him." - Joe Frazier
"Hit harder than anyone I ever fought." - Ezzard Charles
"Hit harder than anyone ever." - Jersey Joe Walcott
"Like fighting an airplane propeller." - Archie Moore
"Trained harder than anyone ever." - Don Turner, trainer
"Hit you so hard it jar your kin folk in Africa." - Muhammad Ali
"Broke blood vessels in my arm just hitting me. Took weeks for my arm to recover." - Roland LaStarza
"One of the hardest punchers who ever lived." - George Foreman
If that is not respect, I don't know what is
Resilient, relentless, swarming, durable, belief, tough, powerful,.....Unbeaten.....Rocky Marciano
ROCKY BEST😃🇮🇹
The Best Ever Left This World.Sad Day In Boxing History.😢
MARCIANO IS THE SINGLE MOST DESTRUCTIVE FORCE EVER SET LOOSE IN THE RING!
@@Maria.Isabella.Sancheznot close realistically but he was an atg.
"Why waltz with a guy for 10 rounds if you can knock him out in one?" - Rocky Marciano
Marciano carved a swath through the heavyweight division not seen before or since!
Rocky Marciano 🎵 simply the best , better than the rest 🎵
Wherever Marciano went, destruction followed
Not only did Rocky's big bones give him the ability to carry more weight, it was the main reason for his tremendous power.
That's bragging isn't it ? Anyway he only koed anyone worthwhile once in first round
It's interesting how people who experienced watching him in real time don't hold him in the same high regard as folks later on in spite the multitude of great fighters who came on the scene after he quit (Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Lewis, Vitali, Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson, Wladimir, Ibeabuchi, Frazier, etc). All the professionals, managers, trainers, boxing writers and historians in the 50s, 60s and 70s only rated Rocky #7, #8, #9 and #10 Heavyweight, all-time. Funny how his status rises as fewer people remain who actually covered him when he fought. There's a lot of mythology with Marciano and a lot of selective memory about his career.
Like Joe Louis Rocky was not only a credit to the boxing profession but he was and is a credit to the human race. Amen Rocky 🙏
A Rocky fan wrote, *"Rocky was not only a credit to the sport of boxing but he was a credit to the human race."* Oh really? Is that why he was dishonorably discharged for felony assault and robbery and, after he quit boxing he abandoned his kids and wife to sleep with thousand and left them penniless. Some credit, he was a disgrace.
Ali fought both Foreman and Liston, and he said that when it came to George he just had to take the hits and wear big George down, in the case of Liston, he simply did not want to get hit at all. So for Ali it was certainly Sonny that hit harder. Foreman trained with Liston after the Olympics, preparing him for pro boxing. George said Sonny was the only man that had ever pushed him backwards with sheer strength alone. He also said that you were always really careful not to make Sonny mad! I think it is pretty safe to say that Sonny Liston hit harder than George Foreman.
@@Studentofsweetsciencesuch a bad troll
37 year old Joe Louis had already been fighting *"17yrs"* with 68 fights and 96 fights before 2 million soldiers during his 4 year military service before facing the 184 lb light heavyweight. *Joe’s speed and punching power had all but evaporated, evidenced by him scoring only 2 KO's in his last 12 fights.* Louis was a sitting duck. By contrast, Marciano was just entering his prime.
40 year old cruiserweight Walcott had already been fighting *"22yrs"* with 68 fights before facing light heavyweight Rocky. Walcott had an abysmal 44% KO's. *Walcott being granted (6) title attempts in a (5½) year span (1947-12-05 to 1953-05-15) proves how shallow the so-called "Heavyweight" division was at that time. And (5) of his title opportunities came immediately after a loss!!!* This is important. *Giant Abe Simon put Walcott into retirement for 4 years 4 months, from 1940-02-12 to 1944-06-07.* Walcott wasn't even remotely prime when he fought Rocky. *Marciano himself said Walcott was only 90% @ 'The Marciano Tapes' #3.* Walcott's most notable victories include wins over light heavyweight Charles and light heavyweight Maxim. Charles lost 25 times and Maxim lost 29 times.
*Walcott lost (20) times and was KO'd (6) times.*
Light heavyweight Ezzard Charles had already been fighting *"15yrs"* with 95 fights before facing light heavyweight Rocky. Charles had the lowest ever 42% KO's. *Charles was factually showing traces of Lou Gehrig's disease against Walcott in 1951.* It's in Ezzard's biography 'Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life' by William Dettloff.
*Charles lost (25) times and was KO'd (7) times.*
42 year old light heavyweight Archie Moore had already been fighting *"20yrs"* with 178 fights before facing light heavyweight Rocky. Archie said, *"Rocky Marciano was about 15 years younger than I was."* --@ Archie Moore Talks 2007TBears
Wouldn't that put grandfather Archie in his mid 40's?
*Moore Lost (23) times and was KO'd (7) times.*
179 lb light heavyweight Rocky Marciano only fought *"8yrs"* before he abruptly quit during his prime at only 31yrs of age. If you eliminate his secretive debut fight under the alias Rocky Mackjeanne, he actually fought *"7yrs"* bcz there was a 15 month gap between his 1st and 2nd fights. Read Mike Stanton to understand Rocky Mackjeanne vs. Les Epperson in Holyoke. Rocky Mackjeanne was shortened to Rocky Mack just before the fight.
*You have to respect every competitor for stepping into the ring but after studying all of his opponents, and who they fought, my gut instinct also says light heavyweight Rocky Marciano is one of the biggest frauds in "Heavyweight" boxing history.*
Joe Louis' 8 fight winning streak which helped him become #1 ranked contender before he faced light heavyweight Rocky. Below is the (6) boxers ring-worn and washed (as evidenced by scoring only 2 KO's in his last 12 fights) Louis beat:
#1) 196 lb Cesar Brian had an abysmal 36% KO's. Brian's career record of 49 wins 11 losses looks okay until ya see 25 of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians.
#2) 191 lb Freddie Beshore had an abysmal 24% KO's. His career record was 28 wins 10 losses. 5' 9" Beshore was on a 4-fight losing streak before he faced Joe. *Why would Joe even consider fighting someone who had just lost 4 fights?*
#3) 187 lb Omelio Agramonte. *Oh wow, oh my, i watched their entire fight and Joe looked terrible, absolutely terrible. What was Joe thinking? He should have stayed retired.* Omelio looked as if he only weighed 165 lbs.
#4) 194 lb Andy Walker had an abysmal 17% KO's. His career record was 18 wins 20 losses. *It's clear as day what's going on here.*
#5) 188 lb Omelio Agramonte -- *Why Twice? We all know why!*
#6) 190 lb Lee Savold. Even the announcer said, *"Joe Louis reflexes are but a memory."* These two should have been retired. *They just pushed Louis through towards Marciano so everyone could fill their pockets with $$$.* Savold had a career 45 losses and was KO'd 12 times.
#7) 197 lb Cesar Brian -- *Why Twice? We all know why!*
#8) Jimmy Bivins weighed 151 vs. Morgan who weighed 146 in 1940. 5' 8.8" (1.75 m) 180 lb light heavyweight Bivins (vs. Louis) had an abysmal 27% KO's. *Yes Bivins was Hall of Famer. But he was a Hall of Famer @ light heavyweight, not Heavyweight. This is the "Heavyweight" division we're talking about right?*
*Talk about bum-of-the-month-club WOW. It was obviously a predetermined carefully hand-picked set-up.*
Boxing-elites, Italian-mafioso, and the IRS really needed Joe to be ranked #1 inorder to get their Louis vs. Marciano $$-SHOW-$$. The only loyalty the Italian-mob had was to $$$. Hey, they took 50% of Marciano's earnings and all ticket sales, all in all $2 Million. $2 Million in 1955 is equivalent to $21 Million today.
*In May of 1950, the IRS finished a full audit of Louis's past returns and announced, that with interest and penalties, he owed the government more than $500,000. Louis had no choice but to return to the ring. The Louis camp negotiated a deal with the IRS under which 36yr old Louis would come out of retirement, with all his net proceeds going to the IRS. After boxing Joe ended up in the pro wrestling circuit and they still took his money. But that gig finished when Cowboy Rocky Lee lunged onto him with both feet, his boots colliding with Louis' torso. The crash cracked three of his ribs. It left him with a cardiac contusion and officially ended his stint as a wrestler. Children used to send him one dollar in the mail. In his biography he said a child walked up and handed him a dime. When Joe was broken physically and mentally the IRS finally stopped collecting. He lived with friends until he died.*
Marciano is the single greatest fighter this sport will ever produce!
MARCIANO IS THE SINGLE MOST DESTRUCTIVE FORCE EVER SET LOOSE IN THE RING!
ROCKY PROVED THAT HEIGHT, WEIGHT, REACH, EXPERIENCE, DON'T MATTER!
"Rocky would often take a nap in the dressing room before a big fight. The kid had ice water in his veins." -- Rocky's manager Charlie Goldman
Marciano was named the 4th greatest Heavyweight of all-time by The Ring in 1994.
Marciano was named the 7th greatest puncher of all-time by The Ring in 1997.
Marciano was named the 9th greatest fighter of the 20th century by The Ring in 1999.
"In the ring, i never really knew fear." - Rocky Marciano
Marciano Magnificent Perfection
Wherever Marciano went, destruction followed
"I have always adhered to two principles. The first one is to train hard and get in the best possible physical condition. The second is to forget all about the other fellow until you face him in the ring and the bell sounds for the fight." -- Rocky Marciano
Quotes from the book Rocky Marciano: The Rock of his times 2005 author Russell Sullivan
"One of the greatest champs ever." - Sonny Liston
"Hardest puncher I ever fought." - Joe Louis
"The one fighter who might have beaten me." - Muhammad Ali
"My manager waited for him to retire before I dared fight him as a heavyweight." - Floyd Patterson
The hardest puncher I ever saw in 50 years in boxing." - Don Turner, trainer for Evander Holyfield
"Ali wouldn't have tried rope-a-dope on Marciano cause Marciano would have KOd him." - Joe Frazier
"Hit harder than anyone I ever fought." - Ezzard Charles
"Hit harder than anyone ever." - Jersey Joe Walcott
"Like fighting an airplane propeller." - Archie Moore
"Trained harder than anyone ever." - Don Turner, trainer
"Hit you so hard it jar your kin folk in Africa." - Muhammad Ali
"Broke blood vessels in my arm just hitting me. Took weeks for my arm to recover." - Roland LaStarza
"One of the hardest punchers who ever lived." - George Foreman
If that is not respect, I don't know what is
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-level resume. Problem is he was a natural middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. I thought this was the Heavyweight division? Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight champion?
Even Marciano's best 3 opponents; Walcott-Charles-Moore lost (68) times and were KO'd (20) times. Marciano never faced an elite fighter in his prime. Name one, just one prime elite fighter Marciano beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Walcott Charles Moore were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs
During the deepest era in Light heavyweight history Gold Medalist Undisputed "Undefeated" HOF ATG GOAT Michael Spinks beat Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, and knocked out Yaqui Lopes and Marvin Johnson. Which was not easy to do in their primes. Michael also beat Heavyweight champion Larry Holmes to win the title, who was also undefeated. Michael Spinks is the most accomplished Light heavyweight in history.
Light heavyweight Charles Lost (25) times and was KOd (7) times.
Light heavyweight Moore Lost (23) times and was KOd (7) times.
Can someone please explain why Charles and Moore ranks higher?
Could it be because they fought little Marciano which automatically makes them immortal, even though they lost ""FORTY-EIGHT"" times and were ""KTFO-FOURTEEN"" times? All's i know is Michaels "0" at Light heavyweight holds "no" clout. Why? Because of his ""ONE"" loss vs. Mike Tyson? Don't make sense. There has to be a reason and I think we all know what that reason is!?
Sum'1 hero got sparked lol
49-0 e z
Liston expert, Paul Gallender, has solved the five major mysteries surrounding The Bear in his 2012 biography, 'Sonny Liston - The Real Story Behind the Ali-Liston Fights'. The author's 40+ years of research provide boxing fans with definitive answers to the five most asked questions about The Bear’s life and career:
1) When was Sonny born?
2) Was he murdered? If so, who did it, how, and why?
3) Was the Liston/Clay fight on the level?
4) Why did Sonny throw the Ali fight?
5) Was Sonny Liston as bad a person as the media said he was?
The short answers are:
1) 1919 or earlier.
2) Yes, by mobsters, with a heroin overdose, because he didn’t throw the Wepner fight.
3) Yes. Footage from the event shows Ali in the ring asking his entourage, 'Did I hit him?' . Ali also told Nation of Islam minister Abdul Rahman that Liston 'laid down'.
4) So his wife and son wouldn’t be killed.
5) No. Sonny was a good man.
Liston, the son of a tenant farmer, served two long terms in prison, where he is said to have learned to box. Although he gave his birth year as 1932, there is evidence that he might have begun his ring career as early as 1934, at the age of 17, under the name of Charles (“Sailor”) Liston. If that is true, he was 45 years old when he won the championship. -- Encyclopedia Britannica
"That he fought in 1934 is no secret - even the Encyclopedia Britannica acknowledges it." -- Paul Gallender
His sister, who he was extremely close to, and who remembered his birth - he was much younger than she was - said he was born the year after the Great War (WW1). Which would have made him 44 when he fought Ali the first time.
watch this vid/documentary --(According To Gallender Sonny Liston Was 44 Yrs Old When He Fought Ali) --from Retro Boxing & Documentaries
This is absolutely beautiful and deserved way more than 45k views.
This story is inspiring, Rocky was truly the greatest of all time
Floyd Patterson wrote in Victory Over Myself:
*“I loved Cus, but he was not going to let me fight the best because he was afraid I was going to lose. I decided a Champion had to face everyone, even if he loses, and I felt better despite the losses."*
Ironically, even though he lost to Liston and never regained the title, he is still ranked in the top 20 heavyweights of all time precisely because he fired Cus, and fought real contenders, rolling up a record worthy of the Hall of Fame.
After he fired Cus, Floyd faced:
Muhammad Ali
Sonny Liston
Eddie Machen
Henry Cooper
Jimmy Ellis
Oscar Bonavena
Jerry Quarry
George Chuvalo
*"I decided a Champion had to face everyone, even if he loses."* (SOMETHING MARCIANO NEVER DID!!!!)
*Marciano knew he'd have to eventually confront Cleveland Williams, Johansson, Patterson, Liston, Machen, Folley, Valdez, Cooper, Miteff, London, Mildenberger, Jones, Terrell, Chuvalo, Clay, Bonavena, Quarry, Martin, and Ellis just to name a few.* We could-a found out how Rocky would have done against all these guys had he not Up-n-Quit so abruptly during his prime after a measley (7) years while everyone else was fighting (15) to (25) years! For Pete's sake he was only 31 his last fight.
Fourteen months after Marciano fights Moore he calls the Patterson vs. Moore match ringside. *Marciano is flabbergasted at Patterson's blinding speed.* Patterson simply walked through everything Moore threw without blinking and KO’d Archie in 5. *Patterson destroyed Moore a lot easier and a lot sooner with less punches than Marciano did.* Marciano quickly realizes it would be pointless to make a comeback even though every sportswriter across America is begging him to come out of retirement. *Patterson's era was easily 5x better than Marciano's era.* Cleveland Williams, Johansson, Patterson, Liston, Machen, Folley, Valdez, Cooper, Miteff, London, Mildenberger, Jones, Terrell, Chuvalo, Clay, Bonavena, Quarry, Martin, and Ellis just to name a few would have simply walked through Walcott, Charles, Moore, Layne and LaStarza. Patterson himself *very easily* walked through Moore!
Light heavyweight Archie Moore started out fighting dozens of welterweight and middleweight nobodies. His record is so padded it's ridiculous. He'd be destroyed against light heavyweights Beterbiev, Bivol, Michael Spinks, Bernard Hopkins, Roy Jones Jr and Bob Foster. When Archie was middleweight how would he have done against other middleweights Sugar Ray Robinson, Carlos Monzon and Marvin Hagler? Heck, little low power Charles beat him 3 times, little Patterson obliterated him, and little Rocky smashed him. Every time Moore stepped-up in competition he got KO'd.
Muhammad Ali put Rocky Marciano in the hospital for an entire week after their ridiculous choreographed ballet sparing match. *"Rocky entered the hospital for dehydration, torn bicep and exhaustion."* - Peter Marciano .... I've seen a lot of Getty and Fight City images and Rocky looked absolutely terrible. He was only 45 years old, wearing a wig, had zero muscle tone and fat was hanging everywhere. That's not all. You could clearly see Ali was at least 6" taller! Don't believe for a second that Rocky was 5' 10". Rocky was actually 5' 9" (1.75 meters), according to Rocky Marciano's biographer John Cameron; his reach was 67 inches (1.70 meters)--incredibly short for Heavyweight; by way of comparison today's Bantamweights (115-118 lbs) average 67.7". There is no question that little Rocky was superbly conditioned by the standards of the day; however, at his average fighting weight of 183 lbs/83 kg, between 178 and 188, he was not incredibly lean and he was not dehydrated; he was, in other words, a natural light heavyweight.
Why didn't little 178 lb light heavy to 186 lb tiny cruiser with tiny flyweight reach Rocky clean out his division like Sonny Liston, Ali and Lennox did? *Little Rocky ducked the great Marty Marshall, Harold Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Bivins, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith, and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard just to name a few?* For 9 years from 1955 to 1964 Liston decimated his division. *There were 14 fighters at the top during Sonny’s time who flatly refused to fight him:*
Hall of Fame undisputed Heavyweight Champion Joe Frazier (Joe accepted, his management said hell no, and vetoed it).
Hall of Fame undisputed Heavyweight Champion Ingemar Johannson refused to fight Sonny.
Bob Foster (light heavyweight Champion but fought for the Heavyweight title twice) refused.
WBA Heavyweight Champion Ernie Terrell refused to fight Sonny.
WBA Heavyweight Champion Jimmy Ellis refused to fight Sonny.
Bob Baker declined too.
So did Henry Cooper, who said: “I don't even want to see him walking down the street, let alone in a gym!”
Karl Mildenberger declined as well.
Jerry Quarry (his father refused to make the fight).
Tommy Jackson refused.
Doug Jones did too.
Harold Carter did as well.
So did Joe Erskine
and Bob Cleroux.
*That is 14 top fighters, who refused to fight Sonny Liston, including 4 Champions.*
*Sonny is the most ducked fighter in boxing history. On the other hand little Rocky was "'NEVER'" ducked!!! Moore, Walcott and LaStarza repeatedly petitioned to fight Rocky for years!!! EVERYONE wanted to fight little Rocky bcz he couldn't hurt you the way Sonny could!!! All Facts!!! Rocky was a Quitter!!!*
Any *boxer that's on an undefeated 30+ or 40+ fight winning streak (especially during the 50s) has been brilliantly managed and well protected.* Italian Mafia soldier Frankie Carbo, the most powerful promoter in boxing, had his leash-n-collar around little Rocky.
25-0-Marciano fought *F-LEVEL* nobodies until he met 37-0-LaStarza who also fought *F-LEVEL* nobodies. After their fight Marciano continues with more *F-LEVEL* competition bcz his handlers were afraid to put him in with anyone who could pose much of a threat after coming so close to tasting defeat.
Little Marciano's next opponent was *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman who had lost 8 of his last 9 fights. Everybody knew it was a gimme fight for an undefeated fighter.
Then there was *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry who had a career record of 71 wins 68 losses.
Marciano's 32nd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Keene Simmons who had a career 8 wins 8 losses.
Marciano's 33rd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell who had a career 4 wins 17 losses.
Marciano's 34th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Art Henri who had a career 13 wins 14 losses.
Marciano's 35th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate who had a career 11 wins 14 losses.
It's clear as day Mafia Boss Frankie Carbo and his associate Al Weill *padded and cherry-picked* Marciano's resume his entire *(but very short)* career. Marciano's career motto was: *"Fight No One and Quit While You Are Ahead"*
Lewis Watson, the boxing writer and historian, speaks of the artificial puffing up of records against cherry picked competition, saying: *“Unbeaten records are fairly padded; you have to look if there are any notable victories coming against first rate competition."*
BUT but many would say Marciano only defended his title against the #1 ranked contender. *Well that's very noble and honorable,, yet meaningless when those six #1 ranked opponents were 'Mediocre' at best.*
Get the hell outta here. Rocco was a beast that was tougher and could punch with both hands and never tired, he was5,'11 and could,ve put on more weight but around 185 no one could beat him and the big heavyweights would,nt land a flush punch on him and if they did he.could handle it.
49-0
Complete crock of shit ....
Are you ok? Did rocky touch you the wrong way or something?
Archie Moore went on a 21 fight streak before he faced Rocky Marciano. Moore's numbers may not lie, but numbers minus context can easily lead to distortion. So let's examine those 21 opponents (not in order).
Bobo Olson 170 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Clinton Bacon 170 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Harold Johnson 170 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Harold Johnson (twice) 170 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Joey Maxim 174 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Joey Maxim (twice) 174 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Joey Maxim (thrice) 174 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Dogomar Martinez 175 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Sonny Andrews 177 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Rinaldo Ansaloni 178 lb WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Jimmy Slade 180 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Bob Dunlap 180 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Clarence Henry 184 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Toxie Hall 188 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Bert Whitehurst 186 lbs WHERE'S THE HEAVYWEIGHTS?
Frank Buford 199 lbs had a career record 22 wins 32 losses (F-level) with (two) 2% KOs
Al Spaulding 210 lbs had a career 25 wins 27 losses (F-level) with an abysmal 24% KOs
Leonard Dugan 209 lbs had a career 6 wins 2 losses (D-level) with an abysmal 25% KOs
Bob Baker 209 lbs had a career 51 wins 16 losses (D-level) with an abysmal 29% KOs
Nino Valdes 209 lbs had a career 48 wins 18 losses (D-level) with a low-power 51% KOs
Nino Valdes 209 lbs (twice)
Identity bias.
Floyd Patterson wrote in Victory Over Myself:
“I loved Cus, but he was not going to let me fight the best because he was afraid I was going to lose. I decided a Champion had to face everyone, even if he loses, and I felt better despite the losses."
Ironically, even though he lost to Liston and never regained the title, he is still ranked in the top 20 heavyweights of all time precisely because he fired Cus, and fought real contenders, rolling up a record worthy of the Hall of Fame.
After he fired Cus, Floyd faced:
Muhammad Ali
Sonny Liston
Eddie Machen
Henry Cooper
Jimmy Ellis
Oscar Bonavena
Jerry Quarry
George Chuvalo
"I decided a Champion had to face everyone, even if he loses" --SOMETHING MARCIANO NEVER DID!!! Marciano knew he'd have to confront Patterson, Machen, Folley, Valdez, Johansson, Cooper, Miteff, London, Mildenberger, Liston, Williams, Jones, Terrell, Chuvalo, Clay, Bonavena, Quarry, Martin and Ellis just to name a few. And that's the exact reason he decides to never make a comeback because he knew better. He tries to make lame excuses like, "I just didn't have the feeling or desire anymore." Give me a break.
Most opponents before the fight, of marciano dismissed him as a crude and limited opponent and were full of confidence of defeating him ,......but after the fight they realised how tough , hard and resilient and great a fighter he just really was, ...if eve there was,.... a more durable , tough persistent and hard hitting fighter than rocky ,...I have yet to see him ,....he simply outfought and outlasted everyone who.stepped into.ring the ring with him.....a true great
*5' 9" 184 lbs lmao.* So undefeated 245 lb Ibeabuchi wasn't durable, tough and persistent? Holmes and Ali wasn't durable, tough and persistent? Holyfield, Tua and Frazier wasn't durable, tough and persistent? How about Zhang, Foreman and the Klitschko brothers? *5' 9" 184 lbs lmao.*
Ike Ibeabuchi vs. David Tua threw 91 punches in round one according to CompuBox, 91 again in round two, and 95 in round three, obscene numbers for a Heavyweight. By the final bell, Ibeabuchi and Tua had combined to throw 1,730 punches, breaking the Heavyweight record set by Ali vs. Frazier III, when they combined for 1,591 punches - in 14 rounds, two rounds more than Ibeabuchi and Tua had to work with. Ike threw 975 punches, the most ever by a single Heavyweight. Both fighters had a brawling fight style, they were both 24 years old at the time of this epic battle and they were both undefeated going in to this fight. 226 lb Tua's record stood at 27-0 23 KO's while 236 lb Ibeabuchi's record stood at 16-0 12 KO's. This fight is the stuff that dreams were made of. Two Super Heavyweight warriors stood toe to toe exhibiting exceptional heart and endurance. Both boxers threw bombs and neither took a backward step.
21 months later, 245 lb Ibeabuchi confirmed that he was indeed the best up and coming Super Heavyweight on the planet by knocking out undefeated 26-0 quick and slick southpaw Chris Byrd. Ibeabuchi was now 20-0 with 15 KO's and only 26 years old. (Byrd would later become two-time Heavyweight champion).
No Heavyweight of his generation possessed more ability. He was a prodigy. He had amazing power, fierce determination and no fear of anybody. He believed that he was the King, that nobody could beat him. He’d walk into the ring and you would almost have this vision of a bull coming at a matador with the steam coming out of the nostrils.
*To claim Rocky Marciano's endurance was better than everyone else's endurance is not only absurd but laughable. And Super Heavyweights Ibeabuchi/Tua just proved it when they threw a record breaking 1,730 haymakers. The way Rocky fans go on and on about how he's the best conditioned fighter that ever lived is absolute nonsense. So Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Marvin Hagler, Manny Pacquiao, David Tua and Ike Ibeabuchi never trained? What a Joke. Little 184lb Rocky gets flattened by the 245lb prodigy Ibeabuchi 10 out of 10 times and that's not debatable!*
*TWO HUNDRED EIGHTY SEVEN (287) POUND BIG BANG ZHANG vs. little 175 pound light heavyweight Archie Moore* HAHAHAHA😂😂😂😂😂LOLOLOL🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
*TWO HUNDRED EIGHTY SEVEN (287) POUND BIG BANG ZHANG vs. little 184 pound cruiser Rocky Marciano* HAHAHAHA😂😂😂😂😂LOLOLOL🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
--(Acute paranoid psychosis symptoms Marciano suffered)--@ '1993/08/23 THE ROCK - Sports Illustrated Vault | SI
The International Boxing Club Of New York was the dominant promotional power in boxing. It controlled the sport at Madison Square Garden and other major arenas. It had contracts for regularly-scheduled fights on the emerging medium of television. And it had links to organized crime; most notably through Frankie Carbo.
“Carbo,” Russell Sullivan explains, “established a well-organized centralized system of control over boxing. The system featured scores of managers who operated as front men for Carbo. Once a promising fighter arrived on the scene, one of Carbo’s managers would muscle in on his ownership. Fear and violence were the linchpins of Carbo’s system and the bedrock of his power. Directly or indirectly, he controlled scores of judges, officials, managers, promoters, and fighters. His power became such that no big match was made or title awarded without his acquiescence.”
Marciano could train 1000 years but prime Ali would still crush him. Since Marciano struggled with light heavyweight Charles who was a good boxer, but was smaller weaker and slower than Ali, what makes you think he'd do better against Ali?
Identity bias.
In my opinion Rocky Marciano was greater than Mohammed Ali, Rocky was probably the greatest heavyweight of all time.
An unrelenting battle tank with gloves who never got tired, Rocky is my favourite heavyweight boxer 😊.
In boxing, having an unbeaten record is considered a very significant achievement. Boxers with unbeaten records are highly regarded and seen as the best in the sport. Rocky Marciano's *"0"* meant everything. Without it he wouldn't be ranked top-20. Only *"ONE"* loss would have changed little Rocky's entire boxing legacy. Combined Wilder and Joshua only have 5 losses which is why they're being thrown under the bus. Wins and losses define a boxer. If Fury or Usyk attains a single loss their chances for top-10 will immediately vanish.
Since so much emphasis is put on the perfect record and/or losses can someone please explain *why* Rocky's opponents CHARLES, WALCOTT, MOORE, SAVOLD, LOWRY, LAYNE, COCKELL, WILSON, SHKOR, WALLS, HENRI, SIMMONS, EATMAN, MUSCATO AND BESHORE *LOST ((411)) TIMES* AND THAT'S PERFECTLY FINE???
Charles Lost (25) times
Walcott Lost (20) times
Moore Lost (23) times
Savold Lost (45) times
Lowry Lost (68) times
Layne Lost (17) times
Cockell Lost (14) times
Wilson Lost (27) times
Shkor Lost (19) times
Walls Lost (41) times
Henri Lost (29) times
Simmons (22) times
Eatman (21) times
Muscato (23) times
Beshore (17) times
*(and many more with double digit losses,, the list is too long)*
WHY DIDN'T ALL MARCIANO OPPONENTS HAVE *""ZERO""* LOSSES IF THEY WERE SO GREAT???
if *"0"* is the only thing that matters then little Marciano's opponents were horrendous.. correct???
*It is worth noting that an unbeaten record does not mean that a boxer is the best, as there are many factors that can impact a fighter's record, such as the level of competition they have faced. There is no way to argue objectively that Marciano is the greatest. And that is due to not only his lackluster competition, but his wars against them.*
*Can you imagine what Foreman in his prime would have done to little Charles and little Moore??? Is there anyone that Marciano beat that Ibeabuchi wouldn’t have beaten in a more convincing fashion??? If Foreman or Ibeabuchi fought Marciano the bookmakers would make Foreman and Ibeabuchi at least a -350 favorite.*
It's interesting how people who experienced watching Marciano in real time don't hold him in the same high regard as folks later on in spite the multitude of great fighters who came on the scene after he quit (Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, Klitschko's, etc.). There's a lot of mythology with Marciano and a lot of selective memory about his career. He was brilliantly managed to preserve his undefeated record.
But the reality is heart and determination can only get you so far when you're sorely lacking in the physical tools the other greats have. Americans love to glamorize the underdog who gets it done in spite of their limitation, just look at the success of Stallone and his Rocky movie franchise, the movie Rudy, Hoosiers, etc.
It is also interesting how the same people who want to consider Rocky the greatest Heavyweight because he was undefeated are reluctant to consider Mayweather the greatest pound for pound. Why is that? It's just flat lazy to look at 49-0 and conclude that he must be the best ever. Based on that, then you MUST consider Floyd Mayweather the greatest pound for pound fighter of all-time since he's 50-0,, right?
Mayweather was named "Fighter of the Decade" for the 2010s by the Boxing Writers Association of America (BWAA), a two-time winner of The Ring magazine's Fighter of the Year award (1998 and 2007), a three-time winner of the BWAA Fighter of the Year award (2007, 2013, and 2015), and a six-time winner of the Best Fighter ESPY Award (2007-2010, 2012-2014). In 2016, ESPN ranked him the greatest boxer, pound for pound, of the last 25 years. As of May 2021, BoxRec ranks him the greatest boxer of all time, pound for pound. Many sporting news and boxing websites, including The Ring, Sports Illustrated, ESPN, BoxRec, Fox Sports, and Yahoo! Sports, ranked Mayweather as the best pound-for-pound boxer in the world twice in a span of ten years.
Since the existence of CompuBox, Mayweather is the most accurate puncher among professional boxers, having the highest plus-minus ratio in recorded boxing history. He has a record of 26 consecutive wins in world title fights (10 by KO), 23 wins (9 KOs) in lineal title fights, 24 wins (7 KOs) against former or current world titlists, 12 wins (3 KOs) against former or current lineal champions, and 5 wins (1 KO) against International Boxing Hall of Fame inductees. He was inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame in the class of 2021.
Mayweather is one of the most lucrative pay-per-view attractions of all time, in any sport. He topped the Forbes and Sports Illustrated lists of the 50 highest-paid athletes of 2012 and 2013, and the Forbes list again in both 2014 and 2015, as the highest-paid athlete in the world. In 2006, he founded his own boxing promotional firm, Mayweather Promotions, after leaving Bob Arum's Top Rank. He has generated approximately 24 million PPV buys and $1.67 billion in revenue throughout his career, surpassing the likes of former top PPV attractions including Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis and Oscar De La Hoya. In 2018, he was the highest-paid athlete in the world, with total earnings, including endorsements, of $285 million, according to Forbes. In November, 2021, Sportico released an all-time athlete earnings list, in which Mayweather ranked no. 6 of all time, totaling an inflation-adjusted $1.2 billion in his career.
Muhammad Ali is the only boxer to be named The Ring magazine Fighter of the Year six times, and was involved in more Ring "Fight of the Year" bouts than any other fighter. He was inducted into the Hall of Fame in its first year and held wins over seven other Hall of Fame inductees.
Ali appeared on the cover of Sports Illustrated on 38 different occasions, second only to Michael Jordan's 46. He also appeared on the cover of Time Magazine 5 times, the most of any athlete.
Ali was crowned Sportsman of the Century by Sports Illustrated and was named Athlete of the Century by USA Today. He was presented with the Presidential Citizens Medal by Clinton and received the Presidential Medal of Freedom from Bush.
In 2015, Sports Illustrated renamed its Sportsman Legacy Award to the Sports Illustrated's Muhammad Ali Legacy Award. In June 2016, an amendment to the US draft laws were named after Ali, a proposal to eliminate the Selective Service System.
The Muhammad Ali Boxing Reform Act was passed in 2000, to protect the rights and welfare of boxers in the United States.
As a world champion boxer and pop culture icon, Muhammad Ali was the subject of numerous creative works including books, films, music, video games, TV shows, and other.
Muhammad Ali was often dubbed the world's "most famous" person in the media. Several of his fights were watched by an estimated 2 billion viewers between 1974 and 1980, and his lighting of the torch at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics was watched by an estimated 3.5 billion viewers.
He also wrote several bestselling books about his career, including The Greatest: My Own Story and The Soul of a Butterfly.
When We Were Kings, a 1996 documentary about the Rumble in the Jungle, won the Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature. The 2001 biopic Ali garnered a Best Actor Oscar nomination for Will Smith for his portrayal of Ali.
In 2002, Ali was honored with a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame for his contributions to the entertainment industry. His star is the only one to be mounted on a vertical surface, out of deference to his request that the name Muhammad-not be walked upon.
Documentary filmmaker Ken Burns created the four-part documentary film Muhammad Ali, spanning over eight hours on Ali's life. Burns worked on the film from early 2016 and it was released in September 2021 on PBS. Dave Zirin, who watched an 8-hour rough cut of this documentary, called it "utterly outstanding" and said "the footage they found will blow minds."
44 Marciano opponents: We see their *entire-CAREER* record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers *complete resume* gives a more *accurate* evaluation how good, or how bad they are. Professional boxers can *easily* be *evaluated* using US school grades *A, B, C, D, and F.*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.*
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.*
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good *B-LEVEL* resume. Problem is *he was a natural middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight champion?*
Even Marciano's *best 3 opponents Walcott-Charles-Moore lost (68) times and were KO'd (20) times.* Marciano never faced an elite fighter in his prime. *Name one, just one prime elite fighter Marciano beat?* Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. *Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Walcott Charles Moore were in their prime when they fought Marciano?*
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0
*WAY TOO MANY HOMELESS WALK-IN F-LEVEL BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR EASY $$$ OR BEING FORCED TO BY THE SICILIAN UNDERWORLD THAT CONTROLLED EVERY SINGLE FACET OF BOXING DURING THE 1950s*
*EVEN LITTLE ROCKY HAD SICILIAN MAFIA BOSS CARBO IN HIS BACK POCKET PROTECTING HIM BECAUSE THEY WERE MAKING MILLIONS THROUGH HIM*
*THEY DIDN'T LITERALLY CONTROL HIM BUT THEY DID TAKE 60% OF ALL HIS EARNINGS AND VERY CAREFULLY PADDED HIS RECORD AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE*
The *entire* eastern seaboard was *Italian,* it was *all Italian.* Even the commissioner of boxing was Italian. Al Weill, Rocky's *mafioso manager* and *matchmaker* at the Garden *took* 50% and *all ticket sales* which pushed it closer to *60%.* Marciano had *no choice* but to *comply* or *no contract.*
Enormous criminal empires had been built on the supply of illegal liquor during the Prohibition era. *Italian* Al Capone’s the most infamous among them. When prohibition came to an end in 1933, after more than a decade of lucrative and bloody endeavour for the Mob, *they needed* something *new.* Access to the machinery of *boxing,* a wilfully unfettered anarchy proved remarkably easy to acquire. *Boxing was now fertile ground for the Mafia.*
*They controlled it all,* from the *trainers* and *managers* to the reporting *journalists,* with a combination of *intimidation* and financial backing ensuring *everybody* the mob *wanted* was under *their control.*
*THE DAY AFTER RETIREMENT HE IMMEDIATELY ABANDONED HIS KIDS AND WIFE TO CONNECT WITH HIS UNDERWORLD FRIENDS WHO HELPED HIM START HIS LOANSHARKING BUSINESS*
I quite enjoyed the 100 Greatest Heavyweight series, and it got me thinking about how nice a boost "Time" tends to give to a fighters ranking.
Rocky Marciano's All-Time ranking in 1962
" In December 1962, a Ring magazine poll of 40
boxing experts had Jack Dempsey rated the
#1 Heavyweight of All-Time, with Joe Louis
2nd, Jack Johnson 3rd and Marciano 7th."
In 1971
" In 1971, Nat Fleischer, boxing's most
famous historian and also editor and founder
of Ring magazine , named Marciano as the
All-Time 10th Greatest Heavyweight Champion."
But by 1998, despite the intervening years producing the likes of Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Klitschko's et al, " In 1998, Ring named Marciano as the 6th Greatest Heavyweight Champion ever."
We float around to 2005, and " In 2005,
Marciano was named the 5th Greatest
Heavyweight of All-Time by the International
Boxing Research Organization."
We skip to the modern day,
and he's just been bumped up to 3rd.
Will he one day be Greater than Ali?
Just find it an interesting aspect of boxing,
that "0" carries a-lot of clout.
Rocky fans always use his "0" as their main argument to prop him up. I suggest you research Marciano's opponents, analyze their records, review who he beat. For example have you even bothered to look at the guys LaStarza beat and their records before fighting Marciano?
And regarding cherry picking quotes praising Marciano, you honestly don't think I could find twice as many narratives about the greatness of Prime Louis or Prime Ali or Prime Foreman or Prime Holmes or Prime Lennox or Prime Vitali or Prime Tyson or Prime Fury or Prime Ibeabuchi or Prime Frazier etcetera.
I don't have a problem if Marciano is your favorite fighter, but you're heading down a slippery slope if you're trying to make the case for him being the best "Heavyweight" ever.
During the deepest era in Light heavyweight history Gold Medalist Undisputed "Undefeated" HOF ATG GOAT Michael Spinks beat Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, and knocked out Yaqui Lopes and Marvin Johnson. Which was not easy to do in their primes. Michael also beat Heavyweight champion Larry Holmes to win the title, who was also undefeated. Michael Spinks is the most accomplished Light heavyweight in history.
Light heavyweight Charles Lost (25) times and was KOd (7) times.
Light heavyweight Moore Lost (23) times and was KOd (7) times.
Can someone please explain why Charles and Moore ranks higher?
Could it be because they fought little Marciano which automatically makes them immortal, even though they lost ""FORTY-EIGHT"" times and were ""KTFO-FOURTEEN"" times? All's i know is Michaels "0" at Light heavyweight holds "no" clout. Why? Because of his ""ONE"" loss vs. Mike Tyson? Don't make sense. There has to be a reason and I think we all know what that reason is!?
Gypsy King Fury would keep little white Rocky at arm's length and force him back whenever he felt crowded. He'd jab, turn and bewilder him for as long as wanted, and if Fury felt so inclined, he'd walk him down Kronk style and smash out a stoppage. And none of this, "if he can't reach his head he'll go to the body", either. That's just bull****. Fury's lead would keep Marciano too far away as is. He ain't getting the opportunities to impose his workrate and definitely doesn't hit hard enough to stop him. Fury jabs him into oblivion. Heck, Fury can land 4 or 5 jabs a round and win the round. King Fury wins. Anyway he chooses.
I feel sorry for you, just like people who believe in god, there is no proof, rocky never lost, so you can't prove he would have ever lost little boy, tell your worthless mother she made a mistake
Don't be fooled by his size or awkward style, Marciano was a beast.
Quotes from the book Rocky Marciano: The Rock of his times 2005 author Russell Sullivan
"One of the greatest champs ever." - Sonny Liston
"Hardest puncher I ever fought." - Joe Louis
"The one fighter who might have beaten me." - Muhammad Ali
"My manager waited for him to retire before I dared fight him as a heavyweight." - Floyd Patterson
The hardest puncher I ever saw in 50 years in boxing." - Don Turner, trainer for Evander Holyfield
"Ali wouldn't have tried rope-a-dope on Marciano cause Marciano would have KOd him." - Joe Frazier
"Hit harder than anyone I ever fought." - Ezzard Charles
"Hit harder than anyone ever." - Jersey Joe Walcott
"Like fighting an airplane propeller." - Archie Moore
"Trained harder than anyone ever." - Don Turner, trainer
"Hit you so hard it jar your kin folk in Africa." - Muhammad Ali
"Broke blood vessels in my arm just hitting me. Took weeks for my arm to recover." - Roland LaStarza
"One of the hardest punchers who ever lived." - George Foreman
If that is not respect, I don't know what is
Marciano was named the 4th greatest Heavyweight of all-time by The Ring in 1994.
Marciano was named the 7th greatest puncher of all-time by The Ring in 1997.
Marciano was named the 9th greatest fighter of the 20th century by The Ring in 1999.
ROCKY BEST😃🇮🇹
The Best Ever Left This World.Sad Day In Boxing History.😢
Marciano carved a swath through the heavyweight division not seen before or since!
MARCIANO=PERFECTION!
@@Samantha_Lavery_Medicitotal nonsense
I don't think people quite understand why so many people love Rocky. Sure, He's undefeated, but people love Him because He was, and still is, a Hero to all people.
Yeah, he's not the black communities champion, white, or Italian. He was the worlds champion
@user-wi9se5ll3j Yup. And you being a big fan should be able to tell us who his three best wins were against.
@@PanchoBotas Just my opinion Archie Moore, Joe Louis, and Jersey Joe Walcott.
@@user-wi9se5ll3j I would agree. Archie was 41 years old. Jersey Joe was 39. Both had about 20 losses each. Joe Louis was 38 and had retired for two years prior. He came back into the ring to pay IRS taxes.
@@PanchoBotas The U.S. treated Joe Louis like shit though
When "The President" Nigerian Ike Ibeabuchi met "The Tuamanator" Samoan David Tua the Nigerian got out to an insanely fast start, throwing 91 punches in round one according to CompuBox, 91 again in round two, and 95 in round three, obscene numbers for a Heavyweight. By the final bell, Ibeabuchi and Tua had combined to throw 1,730 punches, breaking the Heavyweight record set by Ali vs Frazier III, when they combined for 1,591 punches - in 14 rounds, two rounds more than Ibeabuchi and Tua had to work with. Ike threw 975 punches, the most ever by a single Heavyweight. Both fighters had a brawling fight style, they were both 24 years old at the time of this epic "tribal" battle, and they were both undefeated going in to this fight. 226lb Tua's record stood at 27-0-0 23KO's while 236lb Ibeabuchi's record stood at 16-0-0 12KO's. This fight is the stuff that dreams were made of. Two warriors stood toe to toe and gave it their all, showing exceptional heart and endurance.
I try my best to envision light heavyweights Charles & Moore fightin "The Tuamanator" and always end up laughing. And "The President" would have walked through cruiserweights Marciano & Walcott as if they were invisible.
Imagine penguin arms tryin to fight top-notch Super Heavyweights with 80" to 85" albatross wingspans and 40 to 90 pound weight advantages? 184 pounds give me a break, what a joke. Marciano was the best during his little post war era 3-generations ago but unfortunately he would not be relevant against today's top-notch Super Heavyweights similar to undefeated 270lb Joyce, undefeated 263lb Makhmudov, undefeated 248lb Sanchez, undefeated 247lb Hrgovic, undefeated 245lb Anderson and undefeated 275lb Fury just to name a few.
And then there are so many other real-Heavyweights little Rocky couldn't handle similar to Ibeabuchi Lewis Bowe Vitali Ruddock Witherspoon Grant Bruno Holmes Ali Foreman Liston Tyson Tua Usyk Wladimir Ruiz Parker Ortiz Dokes Lyle Thomas Weaver Briggs Morrison Cooney and Wilder. I could easily list another 25.
Y'all fanboys treat little Marciano as if he were god himself. When he walked the earth shook. Society shouldn't care more about person X just because he was a good boxer. Marciano was no more important than everyday, hard-working people. He only defended his cruiserweight title 6 times. Against middleweight turned "Light" heavyweight Matthews. "Light" heavyweight Charles twice. "Light" heavyweight Moore. A very "unhealthy" Cockell. A very small 184 lb cruiserweight LaStarza. And washed cruiserweight Walcott who lost 20 times and was KOd 6 times... That's it? What's the big deal? What's so great about that? For a world champion title holder that's an extremely weak resume. It don't get no worse than that. And considering his opponents bodyweight it's downright embarrassing.
George said in an interview with Ring Magazine: “Sparring with Liston is the most dangerous thing that I ever did in my entire life. No matter what I tried against him, it was me who had to revert back to boxing. Nobody made me box like Sonny Liston did and that happened every time we worked together. He taught me many things, including the importance of the jab.”
A good example of Sonny's sheer strength was an exercise he devised in training camp of loading an industrial sized wheelbarrow full of rocks, and wheeling it up and down a hill. Foreman, 19, and training with "the old man," could only carry one wheelbarrow for every 3 for Sonny: “His strength," said Foreman, "you just can't believe how strong he was!"
Ali made liston look like a clown in both fights
"I felt Floyd Patterson is a vastly improved fighter. He has potentialities of being a great fighter when he gets some experience. I felt confident I could beat him, but I also learned that youth can be too much," said Archie when he found his tongue. For the first time ever, the gaudy pitchman was guilty of astonishing understatement. What the sport needed next was some men good enough to take on the young and growing champ. The man most fitted for the assignment: Retired Champion Rocky Marciano. -- written by TheFightCity 1956.
(See what's happening? All the sportswriters across America were trying their best to get Rocky to come out of retirement. But Rocky declined all their million dollar offers because he knew he'd have to face Patterson then Liston. Besides he was too busy living the fast life. He abandoned his kids and wife to sleep with thousands and his new business was loansharking)
What about washed-up 40 year old Louis and nobody cares about washed-up light heavyweights Charles Moore and Walcott. Authentic Heavyweights King Fury Ibeabuchi Lewis Bowe Vitali Ali Holmes Foreman Witherspoon Thomas Weaver Dokes Grant Povetkin Whyte Ruiz Parker Ortiz Wilder Wladimir Tua Tyson would have OBLITERATED those tiny light heavyweights.
Ali fought both Foreman and Liston, and he said that when it came to George he just had to take the hits and wear big George down, in the case of Liston, he simply did not want to get hit at all. So for Ali it was certainly Sonny that hit harder. Foreman trained with Liston after the Olympics, preparing him for pro boxing. George said Sonny was the only man that had ever pushed him backwards with sheer strength alone. He also said that you were always really careful not to make Sonny mad! I think it is pretty safe to say that Sonny Liston hit harder than George Foreman.
Southpaw 200 lb Cruiserweight Usyk is actually bigger than Ali. Joshua came in at 240 lbs, only an 18 lb weight advantage over Usyk 222 lbs 6'3.2" height 78.2" reach. Holyfield 218 lbs 6'2.5" height 78" reach. Michael Spinks 208 lbs 6' 2.5" height 76" reach. Ali 215 lbs 6'2.5" (passport) height 78" reach. And of course we mustn't forget 185 lb 5'10" Rocky with his famously shortest "ever" 67" inch bantamweight T-rex alligator arm reach.
A great documentary of a great man. Rest in Peace Bro. Rest in Peace.
God bless you brother
During the deepest era in light heavyweight history Gold Medalist Undisputed Undefeated HOF ATG GOAT Michael Spinks beat Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, and knocked out Yaqui Lopes and Marvin Johnson. Which was not easy to do in their primes. Michael also beat Heavyweight champion Larry Holmes to win the title, who was also undefeated. Michael Spinks is the most accomplished light heavyweight in history.
Light heavyweight Charles lost *("25")* times and was KO'd *("7")* times.
Light heavyweight Moore lost *("23")* times and was KO'd *("7")* times.
what are your accomplishments little man? I feel sorry for your mother
One would think since Marciano was only 185 that he would at least have faster hands than the true Heavyweights right? But Maricano had the slowest hands I've ever seen on a boxer.
Identity bias.
Fer two decades the Marciano's have been tryin to remove this article *@ THE ROCK Sports Illustrated Vault Aug\23\1993* but cannot bcz it's all factual!!! Many defamation lawsuits have been filed but all failed. *He was seriously messed up.* His friends tried to help but he refused. He caused his own demise through his insatiable desire for sex and money.
Uh. Didn't he die in a plane crash? Lol how does dying in a plane crash equate "causing his own demise?
I don't see how Marciano's status moves up from being ranked 7th throughout the entire 1960s with the multitude of Great Heavyweights that came after him. The question is how does he stack up with the Mount Rushmore of Heavyweights? In my opinion too many Rocky fans don't do a deep drive into examining his career. That magical 49-0 is the shiny coin so many can not see beyond. LaStarza was one of Marciano's best opponents, he was 37-0. How many of y'all actually studied those 37 guys LaStarza fought?
#37) Cesar Brion - 49 wins 11 losses with 36% KOs (C-level). Brian's career record looks okay until ya see how many of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians.
Walter Hafer - 22 wins 26 losses with 26% KOs (F-level)
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs (F-level)
Jackie Lyons - 32 wins 24 losses with 23% KOs 23% (F-level)
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs (D to F-level)
Jimmy Carollo - 36 wins 17 losses with 16% KOs (D to F-level)
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs (F-level)
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs (D to F-level)
Bill Weinberg - 44 wins 22 losses with 34% KOs (D-level)
Gene Gosney - 14 wins 5 losses with 42% KOs (D-level)
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs (F-level)
Mike Jacobs - 14 wins 16 losses with 12% KOs (F-level)
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs (F-level)
Mel McKinney - 8 wins 10 losses with 5% KOs (F-level)
Teddy Georges - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs (F-level)
Oscar Goode - 43 wins 23 losses with 20% KOs (F-level)
Tony Gangemi - 21 wins 18 losses with 26% KOs (F-level)
Benny Rusk - 20 wins 17 losses with 27% KOs (F-level)
Fred McManus - 18 wins 19 losses with 7% KOs (F-level)
John Holloway - 2 wins 11 losses with 15% KOs (F-level)
Claude McClintock - 1 win 9 losses with 0% KOs (F-level)
Steve King - 21 wins 11 losses with 17% KOs (D to F-level)
Jimmy White - 9 wins 17 losses with 11% KOs (F-level)
Frankie Reed - 2 wins 14 losses with 0% KOs (F-level)
Mike Belluscio - 15 wins 10 losses with 37% KOs (F-level)
Luther McMillan - 13 wins 19 losses with 12% KOs (F-level)
Fred Ramsey - 8 wins 12 losses with 28% KOs (F-level)
Matt Mincy - 0 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs (F-level)
Lorne McCarthy - 2 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs (F-level)
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs (D-level)
Matt Mincy - 0 wins 11 losses with 0% KOs (F-level)
Zeke Brown - 0 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs (F-level)
Jim Johnson - 3 wins 22 losses with 7% KOs (F-level)
Jimmy Dodd - 8 wins 12 losses with 22% KOs (F-level)
Al Zappala - 20 wins 27 losses with 9% KOs (F-level)
Zack Johnson - 3 wins 7 losses with 10% KOs (F-level)
Dave Glanton - 1 win 13 losses with 7% KOs (F-level)
If 42 year old light heavyweight Moore and 38 year old cruiserweight Walcott could drop little white Rocky then the Tyson's, Foreman's, Klitschko's and Ibeabuchi's of the world woulda kilt him. How can a 185 pound man even be considered an ATG Super Heavyweight when he was barely cruiserweight?
He never lost so you can't prove he wouldn't have overcame all of them little boy
Brockton MA City of Champions. Born and raised
Joe Louis said in Gods of War: *"It didn’t matter what stance Sonny Liston fought from, he was the best I ever saw.”* So which is it Joe? Liston was the best or Marciano was the best? *This is exactly why quotes are meaningless.* Yet Rocky fans constantly hang onto quotes as if it were life or death.
*According to Marciano himself, Muhammad Ali would have won. Rocky said three boxers in his lifetime were a bridge too far for him, a young Joe Louis, Sonny Liston, and Ali. Louis for hand speed and power, Ali for pure speed, and Liston for technical excellence and pure brute strength.* - Rocky Marciano, Mike Stanton, Johnathan Eig and Fight City
*"Marciano admitted he could not beat prime Louis, Ali and Liston."* - Monte D. Cox Boxing Historian
When people focus on anecdotes and quotes and not actual facts (i.e. quality of opponents based on their records, quality of your record based on who you beat and when you beat them), it's just spin and propaganda. Marciano's era was not stacked with talent. If it were, the foundation of his record wouldn't be based on beating over the hill fighters. It's over with. Little Rocky's resume is complete and utter Horseshirt.
Fury would keep little Rocky at arm's length and force him back whenever he felt crowded. He'd jab, turn, and flummox him for as long as wanted, and if Fury felt so inclined, he'd walk him down Kronk style and grind out a stoppage. And none of this, "if he can't reach his head he'll go to the body", either. That's just bull****. Fury's lead would keep Marciano too far away as is. Rocky ain't gettin the opportunities to impose his work-rate and definitely doesn't hit hard enough to stop him. Fury jabs him into oblivion. Heck, Fury can land 4 or 5 jabs a round and win the round. King Fury Wins!!! Anyway he Chooses!!!
*Fury is a titan amongst mere mortals. Generations of dna forged to create the perfect Super Heavyweight boxer. I'm grateful to see him in my lifetime. A focused Fury is boxing evolved to it's highest state ever.*
Transport "The King" back to little Rocky's era and he woulda had 149 wins 0 losses with 100% KO's!!!
*Seriously though, if little Rocky fought Fury he would need the use of a stepladder or Fury could fight on his knees.*
*ALL HAIL THE GOAT KING FURY*
1946 *(Rocky's amateur bouts)*
1. April 15, 1946 Henry Lester *(L-DQ3)*
2. August 23, Frederic L. Ross KO-1
3. August 23, Richard Jarvis KO-1
4. August 23, Joe DeAngelis *(Loss-3)*
1947
5. January 17, Jim Connolly KO 1
6. Jan 17, Bob Girard *(Loss-3)*
*1947-03-17 Professional Lee Epperson fights Amateur Rocky Mack aka Rocky Marciano. Then Rocky goes back to the amateurs Jan, Feb, March 1948.*
1948 *(Rocky's back to amateur bouts)*
7. Jan 26, Joe Sidlaskis KO-1
8. February Charlie Mortimer KO-3
9. February George McInnis TKO-1
10. March 1, Coley Wallace *(Loss-3)*
11. March Fred Fischera KO
12. March George McGinnis W-3
*1948-07-12 Professional Harry Bilazarian fights Rocky Marciano. Don Cuoco & Don Cogswell just started legal proceedings to remove the Rocky Mack fight vs. Lee Epperson bcz once Professional you cannot go back to the amateurs.*
Louis Bravely fought *(17)* years...........Rocky only *(7)* years
Walcott Bravely fought *(23)* years.......Rocky only *(7)* years
Charles Bravely fought *(20)* years.......Rocky only *(7)* years
Moore Bravely fought *(27)* years.........Rocky only *(7)* years
Savold Bravely fought *(19)* years........Rocky only *(7)* years
Matthews Bravely fought *(19)* years...Rocky only *(7)* years
LaStarza Bravely fought *(14)* years.....Rocky only *(7)* years
Cockell Bravely fought *(10)* years.......Rocky only *(7)* years
Lowry Bravely fought *(16)* years.........Rocky only *(7)* years
Archie Moore is the only boxer in history to be ranked as #1 contender in 3 of the original 8 weight classes: middleweight in 1942, light heavyweight in 1950, heavyweight in 1955. Archie fought as a middleweight from 1935 to 1945, compiling a record of 70--9--5. Moore in his best years at light heavyweight went 79--10--3 from 1945 to his clash with Marciano in 1955.
The 50s were all about the light heavyweights NOT the Heavyweights. Moore, Charles, Maxim, Bivins, Johnson, Pastrano, Marshall, Matthews etcetera fought back and forth amongst themselves 40 times.
Besides light heavyweights Moore and Charles, another boxer that caused havoc for little Rocky was cruiserweight Walcott who lost to light heavyweights Charles 'twice', Fox 'twice', Maxim, Brothers, Taylor, AND middleweights Mays, Palmer, Ketchell. Journeyman Joe lost throughout his entire career, beginning, middle, end. At best Walcott was a C-level Journeyman.
In summary Marciano's 3 best opponents were two light heavyweights and one Journeyman cruiserweight. To make matters worse Moore was factually 41 and Walcott was 38/39. And to all those claiming age does not matter then put Marciano at 41 and Moore at 31.
Gypsy King Fury would keep little white Rocky at arm's length and force him back whenever he felt crowded. He'd jab, turn and bewilder him for as long as wanted, and if Fury felt so inclined, he'd walk him down Kronk style and smash out a stoppage. And none of this, "if he can't reach his head he'll go to the body", either. That's just bull****. Fury's lead would keep Marciano too far away as is. He ain't getting the opportunities to impose his workrate and definitely doesn't hit hard enough to stop him. Fury jabs him into oblivion. Heck, Fury can land 4 or 5 jabs a round and win the round. King Fury wins. Anyway he chooses.
True Stout. You know your stuff. Moore fought at welterweight also., He was denied because of Jim Crow. That's why he kept moving up in weight. He couldn't get title shots until he moved up to Lt heavy. He was 37 when finally he got title fight.
I noticed that most of the people that say Walcott wasn't old will tell you Loma was past it vs Haney. LOL.
@@louis-i5f Many Rocky fans compliment Rocky for giving black boxers an opportunity. Which is not true. Charles beat Walcott for the title that Joe Louis vacated. Then Walcott eventually took the title from Charles. Moore, Charles and Walcott already established themselves before they even fought little Rocky. Marciano didn't give anyone an opportunity.
@@Rowdy-r2d2-John.3.16 Many Rock fans give Marciano full credit for beating old men . They will scream and cry . "Walcott was in his prime." " Moore was in his prime."" Louis was on a 8 fight winning streak" He still was in prime." Giving Rock full credit for wins. They say that Holmes came after Ali so Holmes isn't liked because of that. Well Marciano followed the great Joe Louis . Doesn't same scrutiny apply to Marciano? Doesn't seem so. Double standards.
Yeah but Marciano was at a disadvantage in every other category. Height, weight, reach, experience. Why do you only focus on the only advantage he had?
Archie Moore had his first fight in 1935 against Billy Sims. His 2nd fight was against 148 lb welterweight 'Kid Pocahuntas', Archie weighed 148 also. Moore slowly worked his way up to the 160 lb middleweight division. He finally attained the 174 lb "Light" heavyweight championship after 17yrs in 1952, and he held that belt till 1962. So Moore was obviously moonlighting (gain 5 to 15 lbs,, lose 5 to 15 lbs) the heavyweight division for 10yrs. Moore had exactly 178 fights (20yrs) before he fought Marciano. Both Moore and Charles attained their HOF status as "Light" heavyweights NOT Heavyweights. Y'all really believe it was a glorious feat to win against blown-up "Light" heavyweights and washed senior citizens?
You don't like the fact that a white guy is considered the greatest heavyweight champ in history. Listen/read what Muhamad Ali said about Rocky Marciano. Case closed.
Hall of Fame All Time Great Heavyweight Champion Sonny Liston had not lost for 10 years before Ali, and didn’t lose again for 5 more. Sonny’s only loss before Ali was early in his career when Marty Marshall broke his jaw when Sonny was laughing at him. Liston fought on with a broken jaw, had it broken again in a second place, yet only lost by split decision. He twice destroyed Marty in rematches.
Gypsy King Fury would keep little white Rocky at arm's length and force him back whenever he felt crowded. He'd jab, turn and bewilder him for as long as wanted, and if Fury felt so inclined, he'd walk him down Kronk style and smash out a stoppage. And none of this, "if he can't reach his head he'll go to the body", either. That's just bull****. Fury's lead would keep Marciano too far away as is. He ain't getting the opportunities to impose his workrate and definitely doesn't hit hard enough to stop him. Fury jabs him into oblivion. Heck, Fury can land 4 or 5 jabs a round and win the round. King Fury wins. Anyway he chooses
You’re obviously poorly educated in boxing.
@@blackdavidfrostnDesMoinesfury is white too😂😂😂 and he's whipping everyone so?
Little 184lb cruiser Rocky was a great champion in his own era and a credit to the sport of boxing, however he boxed in a weak post war drained era where boxers from yesteryear ruled the roost. Since then, there has been so many other topnotch genuine authentic 220 to 290lb Heavyweights similar to:
Zhang
Fury
Lewis
Bowe
Vitali
Ibeabuchi
Parker
Anderson
Hrgovic
Sanchez
Ruiz
Joyce
Whyte
Holmes
Ali
Foreman
Ruddock
Witherspoon
Grant
Bruno
Liston
Tyson
Tua
Usyk
Wladimir
Ruiz
Ortiz
Dokes
Lyle
Thomas
Weaver
Briggs
Morrison
Cooney
Wilder
Joshua
Usyk
*I could "easily" list another Thirty!!!*
Marciano would whip most of these boxers, and the others would have a real tough night.
It's hilarious the way Marciano fans try to blame Patterson for ducking Marciano. Well if Marciano didn't up-n-cowardly-quit during his prime they definitely would have fought!!! Instead Marciano intentionally avoided Patterson's blinding speed to save-face.
I came up very early in boxing at age 8. My great uncle Doug owned a ring in Atlanta Ga. Marciano was always my hero!!!!!!!!
Miller weighs - 305
Zhang - 285
Bakole - 285
Teremoana - 285
Ruiz - 275
Briggs - 265
Grant - 265
Fury - 262
Jalolov - 253
Parker - 250
Foreman - 220/250
Vitali - 250
Peter - 250
Joshua - 250
Whyte - 250
Ibeabuchi - 245
Lennox - 245
Kabayel - 245
Wladimir - 245
Dubois - 245
Sanchez - 245
Ruddock - 245
Hrgovic - 245
Itauma - 240
Wardley - 240
Bowe - 240
Ortiz - 240
Witherspoon - 235
Tua - 235
Dokes - 235
Bruno - 230
Morrison - 230
Cooney - 230
Thomas - 225
Usyk - 223
Lyle - 220
Tyson - 218
Holmes - 218
Wilder - 218
Ali - 218
Liston - 218
Frazier - 206
Dempsey - 187
*Moore - 175 lb Light heavyweight champion from 1952 to 1962.*
*Charles - 181 lb Heavyweight champion with lowest ever 42% KO's.*
*Marciano - 184 lb Heavyweight champion with 67" flyweight reach.*
Little Marciano's era was undoubtedly the smallest and weakest Heavyweight division in boxing history and that's not even remotely debatable!
@ 3: 27 the banner-caption or on-screen text reads;
ARCHIE MOORE CLASSIC SPORTS At age 42, second oldest ever to fight for heavyweight championship (George Foreman, age 45 in 1994)
Archie's age is no longer a mystery. Wiki recently removed 1916 and went with 1913 per family request. “My mother should know since she was there." -- Archie Moore
Jul 20, 2020 - Archie Moore - BoxRec writes -- "Moore claimed he was born December 13, 1916, but his mother said he was born December 13, 1913. The U.S. Census record from 1920 seems to put an end to the mystery. "Archie L. Wright" is listed as a nephew in the household of Cleveland Moore and was three years and two months old on the date of the census" - January 2, 1920.
So BoxRec says, "'Seems"' to put an "'end'" to the mystery."
Who said it's the "'end'" ?
BoxRec serves maybe two million folks. Wiki serves Billions and they say 1913. Archie's Mother and Archie's children say 1913 so they take precedent. Archie's mother did not fill out that census form, an uncle did who lived in a different state.
Archie claimed he was born in 1916 in Collinsville, Illinois. But Archie's Mother told reporters numerous times, "Archibald was born in 1913 in Benoit, Mississippi" and that she was "never in Collinsville." December 13, 1913 was even written in his obituary by his children. "My mother should know since she was there." -- Archie Moore
Says Billy Moore, Archie’s 68-year-old son who lives in San Diego, “My daddy was born in Benoit, Mississippi, and he was proud of it. If I heard him say it once, I heard him say it hundreds of times."
@ BoxRec - Wikipedia --- 'Criticism of website' -very first sentence reads, ""BoxRec has been criticized for not keeping correct records for boxers, especially historic fighters"" Here's a perfect example of BoxRec's inaccuracies and why they're criticized...Walcott's actual record is 51-18-2 and he was KO'd (5) times...yet BoxRec shows ""49-20-1 KO'd (6) times""
So little white Marciano threw 100 punches in a round? Lol give me a break. Number one Marciano only weighed 185. So even if he threw 100 punches in a round what would that prove? Why compare a light heavyweight punch numbers to a true-Heavyweight. Only sik-minded fanboys would even try to compare.
Foreman, probably the most formidable puncher in boxing history said that Liston is the only man he ever faced that made him back-up and revert to boxing. Much bigger, stronger sluggers like Liston, Foreman and Ibeabuchi would knock little Marciano into tomorrow before he could get close enough to land any shots of his own. Watch footage of Foreman destroying Frazier twice and Liston destroying Patterson twice. That’s exactly what would happen to little Marciano if he met a prime Liston!!!
Great white hope Marciano battered Don Cockell, another light heavyweight masquerading as a Heavyweight. Rock was the biggest phony ever, how in the hell could boxing allow such deceit, they must legitimize his legacy so they brought out of retirement an OLD, RETIRED, AND COMPLETELY BROKE, JOE LOUIS, who was like fodder fed to a pitbull, kinda like when they fed Larry Holmes to an angry Mike Tyson, or allowed Ali to be served up to Holmes.
Thank you for this touching and excellent documentary on a great and worthy Champion.
Marciano opponents (not in exact order): *We see their entire "CAREER" record, not a partial record. Seeing a boxers complete resume gives a more accurate evaluation how good, or how bad they were. Professional boxers can easily be evaluated using grades A, B, C, D, and F which has been used in boxing for decades:*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see who he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.
Don Cockell - 66 wins 14 losses with 46% KOs looks okay until you see the overwhelming majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews - 90 wins 7 losses with 58% KOs is a good B-LEVEL resume @ welterweight and middleweight. Matthews was a-natural lightweight, welterweight, middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight. Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible "Heavyweight" opponents to be respected as a legitimate "Heavyweight" champion?*
*Even little 184lb cruiserweight Rocky's 5 best opponents: 3 light heavyweights and 2 cruiserweights -- Charles Moore LaStarza Layne Walcott -- LOST ((94)) times and were KO'D ((28)) times!!!*
IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0:
D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$...NUMBERS DO NOT LIE
*In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably--The Ring Magazine*
Name one, just one *"prime"* ATG fighter little 184lb-cruiser Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Charles Moore Walcott Louis were in their prime when they fought Marciano?
Zhang - 287
Joyce - 280
Fury - 277
Ngannou - 272
Briggs - 265
Ruiz - 265
Grant - 265
Makhmudov - 260
Lennox - 250
Parker - 250
Foreman - 250
Vitali - 250
Peter - 250
Joshua - 250
Whyte - 250
Ibeabuchi - 245
Kabayel - 245
Wladimir - 245
Anderson - 245
Hrgovic - 245
Sanchez - 245
Ruddock - 245
Bowe - 240
Ortiz - 240
Witherspoon - 235
Tua - 235
Dokes - 235
Bruno - 230
Morrison - 230
Cooney - 230
Wilder - 225
Thomas - 225
Usyk - 222
Lyle - 220
Holmes - 218
Ali - 218
Tyson - 218
Liston - 218
*Marciano - 184 with the shortest ever 67" flyweight reach*
*Charles - 181 with the lowest ever 42% KO's*
*Moore - 175 light heavyweight champion from 1952 to 1962*
Rocky fans always knew his post war drained era had an expiration date and that time has arrived. He was never tested against genuine topnotch 200+lbs Heavyweights let alone authentic topnotch 224+lbs Super Heavyweights.
But he went 49-0, yes he did, against who?
Middleweights and light heavyweights
masquerading as Heavyweights.
Walcott was at least 40,
Moore was at least 42,
Charles factually had ALS and Louis was washed.
*Rocky never fought an all-time great in his prime.*
Heck, in my opinion today's light heavyweight phenom Artur Beterbiev would annihilate Marciano! Rocky was flat-footed wide open and never used the jab.
*Rocky's era was undoubtedly without a doubt*
*the absolute worst Heavyweight division in boxing history!*
Eldridge Eatman a 50/50 F-LEVEL diver had 22 wins 20 losses with an abysmal 22% KO's when he faced Rocky. *"Marciano hit Eatman with a right in the 3rd and Eatman went down, THOUGH IT DIDN'T APPEAR HE WAS HIT"* -- written by Providence Journal and BoxRec.
That's not all. Eldridge had 1 win 8 losses going into his bout vs. Rocky who was 26-0. It doesn't make sense. Why would a 26-0 fighter fight an *F-LEVEL* diver with 1 win 8 losses?
Bcz 'technically' Marciano had just lost to Roland LaStarza so Marciano's handlers (Carbo) were afraid to put him in with anyone who could pose much of a threat after coming so close to tasting defeat. So of course his next opponent had to be against the *F-LEVEL* diver Eatman. Everybody knew and it was a gimme fight for an undefeated fighter but what could you do against the Sicilian Mafia?
During this time Rocky intentionally ducked many good fighters such as Marty Marshall, Johnson, Maxim, Pompey, Bivins, Satterfield, Valdez, Lloyd Marshall, Oakland Billy Smith and Curtis "Hatchetman" Sheppard just to name a few.
Then there was *C to F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry
who had a career 71 wins 68 losses.
Marciano's 32nd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Keene Simmons
who had a career 8 wins 8 losses.
Marciano's 33rd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell
who had a career 4 wins 17 losses.
Marciano's 34th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Art Henri
who had a career 13 wins 14 losses.
Marciano's 35th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate
who had a career 11 wins 14 losses.
*It's clear as day Mafia Boss Frankie Carbo & associate Al Weill padded and cherry-picked Marciano's resume his entire, but very short career.*
Rocky fought nobody notable until Walcott who was at least 40 if not older. Walcott's age is discussed in his biography Chapter 9, page 71. He never had a birth certificate and had to create one in his mid 20's. Then there's light heavy Charles who already had symptoms of Lou Gehrig's disease. It's in his biography by William Dettloff. Then Rocky finishes his very short career against light heavyweight Moore who was 42 if not older.
*IT'S CLEAR AS DAY WHY HE WENT 49-0:*
*TOO MANY D AND F-LEVEL AMATEUR WALK-IN*
*BOXERS TAKIN-DIVES AND PADDIN RECORDS FOR $$$.*
*OR BEING MADE TO BY THE SICILIAN UNDERWORLD*
*THAT CONTROLLED EVERY SINGLE FACET*
*OF BOXING DURING THE 1950's!!!*
*EVEN LITTLE ROCKY HAD SICILIAN MAFIA BOSS*
*CARBO IN HIS BACK POCKET PROTECTING HIM*
*BCZ THEY WERE MAKING MILLIONS THROUGH HIM.*
*THE DAY AFTER HE RETIRED HE IMMEDIATELY*
*ABANDONED HIS KIDS AND WIFE TO CONNECT*
*WITH HIS UNDERWORLD FRIENDS WHO HELPED*
*HIM START HIS LOANSHARKING BUSINESS.*
*CRY AND SCREAM ALL YA WANT BCZ IT*
*CANNOT EVER SWEEP IT UNDER THE CARPET!!!*
*IT WAS REAL AND VERY WELL DOCUMENTED SO STOP LIVING IN DENIAL.*
If 178 to 184 lb tiny cruiser Rocky was *all-Powerful* why didn't he ever break any bones? *He never broke one rib, one nose, one eye-socket, one jaw or detached one retina.* If he did i assure you every single Rocky fan on the planet would be talking about it, right?
Marciano catches lightning in a bottle ONE time vs. Walcott and his fans automatically assume he's the most powerful puncher that ever lived.
Rocky never had 43 KO's, half were TKO's. Count them. There's a Huge difference between KO's and TKO's. LaStarza and Cockell were still standing, correct?
Rocky's entire legacy has been built around that "one" lucky KO against a guy that was at least 40 years of age, if not older. *Just before Walcott gets KO'd where are both of his hands? They are at waist level. Why? Bcz he's worn out and his reflexes are shot. Father time waits for no one!*
Roland LaStarza with all his supposed "Broken Bones" and "Ruptured Blood Vessels" only had minor surgery to remove tiny bone chips from his elbow just like David Tua did after his fight with Ibeabuchi. Elbow arthroscopy is a minimally invasive procedure. It's a common boxing injury yet y'all act as if both his arms were decapitated. Besides, Roland said, *"I already had elbow problems before i even fought Marciano."* (I have the article).
Here's the newspaper article about Layne's tooth: *"Rex Layne lost a left upper tooth..the tooth broke at the gums when Marciano caught the Utahn in the mouth with a full right hand. Layne was taken immediately after the fight to a New York dentist to have the teeth X-rayed and also for treatment on a broken tooth." Layne's handlers said, "the tooth went out with the gum shield."* ...So, Rex only sustained *"ONE"* broken tooth!!!
This is important. *If all of Layne's front teeth were sheared off at the gum's it would have been virtually impossible for Layne to fight Charles exactly 3 months later! Correct?* Folks break their teeth all the time skateboarding or slipping and falling on the ice. One broken tooth, what's the big deal?
The Marciano Tapes #6 @3:40 Marciano confesses Carmine Vingo hit the back of his head on the plywood flooring. *He said, "it so happened that Vingo hit his head on the flooring, and it sent him unconscious. He was paralyzed a little bit in his fingers and hands. There was a change in the ruling, from then on padding was put on the ring of the flooring."* Rocky's manager Al Weill said the same thing in Marciano's biography 'Unbeaten', *"Vingo hit his head on the flooring, then he went unconscious."*
So after all this time it was the plywood flooring that partially paralyzed Vingo, not Marciano's punch. *It's no wonder Vingo said, "I WAS SLAUGHTERED FOR A CROWD" --source: The Saturday Evening Post by Carmine Vingo as told by Seymour Shubin*
*Carmine Vingo's F-LEVEL opponents:*
*1.* Barney Metten career record 6 wins 3 losses *F-LEVEL*
*2.* Fred Ramsey career record 8 wins 12 losses *F-LEVEL*
*3.* Earl Turner career record 2 wins 21 losses *F-LEVEL* (Turner's only purpose was padding records).
*4.* George Washington career record 12 wins 33 losses *F-LEVEL* (Another paid diver).
*5.* Joe Lindsay career record 28 wins 7 losses *C-LEVEL* (Vingo Loses).
*6.* Freddie McManus career record 18 wins 19 losses *F-LEVEL*
*7.* Tommy DiGiorgio career record 9 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL*
*8.* Jimmy Walls career record 20 wins 41 losses *F-LEVEL* (Another Diver).
*9.* Tommy DiGiorgio career record 9 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL* (SECOND time Vingo fights this guy. Why? We all know why).
*10.* Johnny Williams career record 2 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL*
*11.* Don Mogard career record 20 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL*
*12.* Freddie McManus career record 18 wins 19 losses *F-LEVEL* (SECOND time Vingo fights this guy. Why? We all know why).
*13.* Ernie Conyer career record 5 wins 9 losses *F-LEVEL*
*14.* Ernie Conyer career record 5 wins 9 losses *F-LEVEL* (SECOND time Vingo fights this guy. Why? Isn't it obvious? To pad his fraudulent resume).
*15.* Joe Modzele career record 18 wins 8 losses *D to F-LEVEL* (Another 183 lb light heavyweight moonlighting as Heavyweight, they were dime a dozen back then).
*16.* George Washington career record 12 wins 33 losses *F-LEVEL* (Second time Vingo fights this diver. Vingo fought *FOUR* opponents *TWICE* within 16 bouts. The majority of his opponents had losing records. This is all to reminiscent of Roland LaStarza's resume).
*17.* Al Robinson career record 0 wins 5 losses *F-LEVEL* (Vingo actually fights a debuting amateur (0-0-0) just before he faces Rocky. Why? Worst division in boxing history).
*18.* Rocky Marciano career record 49 wins 0 losses *A-minus-LEVEL for extremely short 7 year career. In comparison Moore had 27 year career.* (Vingo was completely outclassed and never had a chance from the get-go. I saw their Getty Museum pics and Marciano didn't have a single mark on his face, his eyes were wide open and clear).
All this time i was mislead into believing that Vingo was this twenty year old superstar being prepped to become the next Heavyweight champ. Instead he was prepped for *SLAUGHTER JUST TO PLEASE A CROWD* --Carmine Vingo
*WHAT THEY DID TO VINGO WAS A TRAVESTY*
Moore was asked about Patterson after he lost and said, "He has potentialities of being a great fighter when he gets some experience." -- LOL Moore just got smashed by the 21yr old, what more experience does he need? Moore had plenty of experience, where did it disappear to?
OUTSTANDING fighter.....
A closer glance at Joe Louis 8 fight winning streak which helped him become #1 ranked contender before he faced Rocky Marciano. Below is the "SIX" (6) boxers Louis beat:
#1) 196 lb Cesar Brian -- Decision -- Brian had an abysmal 36% KO's. Brian's career record of 49 wins 11 losses looks okay until ya see (25) of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians who helped pad his record.
#2) 191 lb Freddie Beshore -- KO -- 28-10-1 Freddie had a featherfisted 24% KO's.
#3) 187 lb Omelio Agramonte -- Decision -- I watched their entire fight and Joe's combinations were non-existent. Agramonte had a low-power 45% KOs. The announcer said Louis was supposed to fight Charles after the Savold fight but the Louis camp ducked the light heavyweight.
#4) 194 lb Andy Walker -- TKO -- 17-8-7 B-level Andy was powderpuffer with 18% KO's.
#5) 188 lb Omelio Agramonte -- Decision AGAIN -- Why Twice? What happened to LaStarza, Walcott or Charles again?
#6) 190 lb Lee Savold -- KO -- Savold lost 45 fights and was KOd 12 times. Even the announcer said, "Joe Louis reflexes are but a memory." These two should have been retired. They just pushed Louis through towards Marciano so everyone could fill their pockets with money.
#7) 197 lb Cesar Brian -- Decision AGAIN -- Why Twice? What happened to LaStarza, Walcott or Charles again?
#8) 179 lb Jimmy Bivins -- Decision - 5' 9" career middleweight light heavyweight Bivins had 25 losses and was KOd 5 times. He also had an abysmal 27% KO's.
Talk about bum-of-the-month-club, WOW. Notice the 5 decisions. A prime 24 year old (1938) speedy combination puncher Joe Louis would have easily accumulated 8 knockouts against those powder-puffers. It was obviously a predetermined carefully hand-picked set-up.
So Joe comes outta retirement and takes the worst beating of his career from a light heavyweight (Charles) then he fights 6 stiffs and becomes #1 ranked contender. Joe looked like he was wadding through mud when he fought little Rocky.
Boxing-elites, Italian-mafioso and the IRS really needed Joe to be ranked #1 inorder to get their Louis vs Marciano $$-SHOW-$$. The entire eastern seaboard was ruled by Italians. The only loyalty the Italian-mob had was to money.
Hey they even took 50% of Marciano's earnings and all ticket sales, all in all $2 Million. $2 Million in 1955 is equivalent to $21 Million today. Norris, Carbo, Weill had complete control over Rocky. That's why he Quit.
The Louis camp negotiated a deal with the IRS under which he would come out of retirement, with all his net proceeds going to the IRS. After boxing Joe ended up in the pro wrestling circuit and they still took his money. But that gig finished when Cowboy Rocky Lee lunged onto him with both feet, his boots colliding with Louis' torso. The crash cracked three of his ribs. It left him with a cardiac contusion and officially ended his stint as a wrestler. Children used to send him one dollar in the mail. In his biography he said a child walked up and handed him a dime. When Joe was broken physically and mentally the IRS finally stopped collecting. He lived with friends until he died.
little Rocky ? That is funny ! 😁😅❤
Boxing Historian Monte Cox wrote: “Liston was made to be a fighter. His physical attributes bordered on the freakish. At six-foot, one-inch, he had an eighty-four inch reach-longer than that of all other champions with the exception of Primo Carnera. His neck was a massive eighteen inches. But the number that leaps off the page-the statistic that looks initially lik' a typo-is that which corresponds to his hands. When closed into a fist, they measured fifteen inches around, virtually twice the size of an average man’s. To contemplate the impact of a fist that large, delivered over a distance that great, from a man so determined to do damage, would give even the bravest opponent pause."
Y'all white Marciano lovers fail to ever mention Marciano's Forced retirement. Why? Because Marciano couldn't take the pain anymore from two confirmed nose surgeries, hand surgery, hundreds of stitches, chronic back pain and constant migraines cause his head was used as a Pinata constantly gettin smacked around,, here,, you hit me five times,, and I'll hit you back one time,, Duh. And all that talk about retiring for his family nonsense was simply a bull•••• publicity stunt because he immediately abandoned his family and left them penniless when he perished.
If ever anyone deserved their success this courageous athlete most certainly did. It's a brutal business that most of us wouldn't survive for a second.
Sure you would. Billions of people fight daily to survive. He never deserved anything. He committed felony assault and robbery when he was in the military.
He also abandoned his wife and kids to sleep with thousands then left them penniless.
Fer two decades the Marciano's have been tryin to remove this article *@ THE ROCK Sports Illustrated Vault Aug\23\1993* but cannot bcz it's all factual!!! Many defamation lawsuits have been filed but all failed. *He was seriously messed up.* His friends tried to help but he refused. He caused his own demise through his insatiable desire for sex and money.
What Marciano did to his family is unforgivable. During his retirement speech, and during his appearance on the Ed Sullivan show he said, "I want to spend more time with my family." *IT WAS ALL A LIE.* He immediately abandoned his kids and wife to sleep with thousands then left them penniless @ *Aug\23\1993 -- THE ROCK Sports Illustrated Vault*
Sonny had a-albatross 84″ reach. Little Rocky had a-stubby 67" reach. A 17″ reach advantage is a tall order to overcome, but when the man with the reach advantage is the most fearsome puncher in history it’s insurmountable. Marciano’s style was tailor made for Liston. Liston’s power and reach would have been too much for the plodding face first Marciano.
You're saying Marciano would undoubtedly lose to Liston? Sonny Liston 50 wins 4 losses
little Rocky 49 wins 0 losses.. so mainly because of the 17 inch reach advantage Liston had on Marciano and the fact that Sonny was an extremely hard puncher, the 4 fights he lost was because the other boxers had a longer reach and also hit harder than him right?
As former boxer and boxing historian Liston would have trouble with Marciano! Liston was a solid fighter! 95% of Liston reputation was built off Cleveland Williams, Albert Wesphal and his 2 demolition jobs on Patterson! Granted Liston was ducked during his prime! Liston loses to a prime Frazier and Old or young Foreman! Liston was slow plodding and struggled with fighters with better hand speeds! Liston went my rounds with Mike Dejohn who was average at best! Anyone that claims Liston was huge indestructible monster should watch the 10 round fight with Journeyman Bert Whitehurst! This was Liston’s prime! Imagine Tyson or Lennox Lewis fighting this guy Bert Whitehurst! Liston on 2 occasions struggled to put him away! Liston was precursor to the The huge hype around Tyson! A time when America needed a bad man on the planet!
Rocky would of DESTROYED Sonny , He was a Coward and a Bully, Your big tough guy was too Afraid to come out and Finish getting his Beating like. A Man would when he Fought Ali
The decathlon is one of the best, if not the best test for speed/strength/endurance. The oldest any World or Olympic Champion has ever been is 32 (Roman Sebrle). This would leave one to believe that after 32 athletes will have started to decline- if not earlier. Boxers are only ever measured against their opponents, the best boxers that Marciano ever fought were undoubtedly past their prime. Marciano quit at 31 for a reason.
A fighter is in his prime when he has the maturity and experience to go along with undiminished reflexes. Once his reflexes start to slide he's past-prime, simple as that. When his reflexes are gone he's a shot fighter. I can't recall seeing a fighter older than his early 30s that still had his reflexes fully intact.
His body type and exceptional training reminds me of Tyson’s . They both had deadly power even when fighting much bigger men.
And Rocky, good as he was with great power and a granite chin, would have been a first round knockout if he ever fought Iron Mike Tyson. Rocky was a slugger, Tyson was a boxer who was quicker, faster and stronger. I say this taking nothing away from Rocky.
im a mike tyson fan, but tyson is overrated, he was a pretty good boxer between 86 and 89, but not better than a foreman or jack jonhson@@robertscheinost179
Don't even try to compare slow moving Marciano to phenom Mike Tyson. There's easily a 30 lb weight difference and Iron Mike was 5x Faster. Little Rocky slowly shuffled forward similar to a little Turtle 🐢 and Mike rapidly moved forward like a Thoroughbred Racehorse 🐎
*According to Marciano himself, Muhammad Ali would have won. Rocky said three boxers in his lifetime were a bridge too far for him, a young Joe Louis, Sonny Liston, and Ali. Louis for hand speed and power, Ali for pure speed, and Liston for technical excellence and pure brute strength.* - Rocky Marciano, Mike Stanton, Johnathan Eig and Fight City
*"Marciano admitted he could not beat prime Louis, Ali and Liston."* - Monte D. Cox Boxing Historian
This information is HUGE and settles any debate as to who could beat who *!!!!*
Marciano said his best weight he ever fought at was, "186lbs." Tyson was 220lbs at his fastest & best. About 235lbs at his heaviest. Rocky didn't have the speed or footwork to keep Tyson away or the skill or technique to keep him off. And saying that Rocky was tough… well,, tough can get you killed in the ring against a super power puncher with superior skills. This fight wouldn't last 2 rounds with a prime Tyson. And a non-prime Tyson would still be heavier and stronger. Rocky never faced anyone of merit who was near their prime. You wouldn't want Tyson to be your first. Bigger, faster, stronger. With malicious intent. No way Rocky would beat a prime Iron Mike.
Lee Epperson career record 0 wins 1 loss *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks career record 0 wins 1 loss *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone career record 0 wins 3 losses *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards career record 1 win 2 losses *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman career record 1 win 6 losses *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson career record 4 wins 2 losses *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft career record 12 wins 8 losses *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly career record 12 wins 9 losses *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian career record 15 wins 12 losses *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson career record 3 wins 10 losses *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell career record 4 wins 17 losses *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron career record 4 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato career record 7 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie career record 10 wins 13 losses *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard career record 20 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis career record 32 wins 14 losses *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio career record 9 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons career record 9 wins 22 losses *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri career record 18 wins 29 losses *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls career record 20 wins 41 losses *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry career record 71 wins 68 losses *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) 71 wins 68 losses *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino career record 24 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) 24 wins 15 losses *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic career record 18 wins 12 losses *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman career record 22 wins 21 losses *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate career record 12 wins 16 losses *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold career record 104 wins 45 losses *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato career record 56 wins 23 losses *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson career record 56 wins 27 losses *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor career record 31 wins 19 losses *D-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore career record 35 wins 17 losses *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans 18 wins 8 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Eddie Ross 19 wins 5 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bob Quinn 20 wins 4 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bernie Reynolds 53 wins 13 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.*
Pat Richards 24 wins 9 losses looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Carmine Vingo 16 wins 2 losses looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.*
Don Cockell 66 wins 14 losses looks okay until you see the majority of his career was at middleweight and light heavyweight. *By the time he faced Marciano he was suffering from severe glandular disorders that wreaked havoc with his physique. He was sallow-skinned, fat, and had a nasty boil on his neck.*
Harry Matthews 90 wins 7 losses is a good B-LEVEL resume until you see *he was a career middleweight moonlighting at light heavyweight.* Matthews weighed 130 lbs vs. Joey Parks who also weighed 130. *Shouldn't one have to beat credible Heavyweight opponents to be respected as a legitimate Heavyweight?*
*Even Rocky's 5 best opponents: Charles, Moore, Walcott, Layne, LaStarza -- LOST (94) times and were KO'd (28) times!!!*
There it is. Y'all are intelligent enough to make your own judgement about Rocky's *F-LEVEL* resume. Who did he fight? Walcott was 40, Moore 42, Charles had ALS and Louis was washed. To continue claiming he was the Greatest or even top 10 Greatest Heavyweight is absurd. It's no wonder Hall of Fame trainer Emanuel Steward said, *"Marciano was too small. He really wasn't a Heavyweight. 5' 10", exceptionally short arms, very clumsy, cut easy, had troubled balance. 188 lbs was just too small."* @ Emanuel Steward: Ali all time greatest, Klitschko number eight
*"Name one, just one 'Prime' all time great boxer Rocky beat? Failing to name even one proves my comment rings true. Show me any respected boxing publication or analyst that claims Walcott Charles Moore Louis was 'Prime' when they fought him?"*
Southpaw Usyk is 6' 3" 221-lbs with 78" reach.
Prime Clay/Ali was 6' 2.5" (passport) 212-lbs with 78" reach.
Holyfield was 6' 2.5" 218-lbs with 78" reach.
Michael Spinks was 6' 2.5" 207-lbs with 76" reach.
Mike Tyson was 5' 10" 220-lbs with 71" reach.
David Tua was 5' 10" 240-lbs with 71" reach.
And of course we mustn't forget 5' 10" 185-lb Marciano with the shortest ever 67" flyweight reach.
Shocking isn't it. Those other small guys weren't so small after all. They already had the natural weight or natural height and reach advantage so they were able to assimilate into the Heavyweight division with few to no problems..
On the other hand little Marciano had some serious dwarfism problems going on with his reach. Simply put Marciano's bone structure was too short to assimilate effectively.
Little Marciano quit boxing at only 31 years of age! Larry Holmes fought till he was 52. Holmes was born in 1949. Ad 31 years to 1949 = 1980. Holmes had exactly *(39)* fights after 1980. How many more fights did little LH Archie Moore have after age 31? One hundred? One hundred fifty?
How many fights did Louis have after the age of 31???
How many fights did Walcott have after the age of 31???
How many fights did Charles have after the age of 31???
*Well that pretty much sums up exactly why little Rocky never lost a fight.*
I find it shocking how Rocky fans cannot understand this concept. Liston fought till he was 50 (or older). Foreman fought till he was 48.
Little Rocky quit at only *((31))* bcz his younger brother, Peter, said, *"ROCKY WAS EMBARRASSED OF LOSING"*
well for Pete's sake it's no wonder he never lost,
*he was a "'QUITTER"'!!!!*
Had he continued fighting like everyone else did he undoubtedly would have lost. Instead the little 184lb-cruiser avoided being embarrassed and severely punished by a younger and stronger boxer as has always happened in the history of boxing!
Fer two decades the Marciano's have been tryin to remove this article @ THE ROCK Sports Illustrated Vault Aug\23\1993 but cannot bcz it's all factual!!! Many defamation lawsuits have been filed but all failed. He was seriously messed up. His friends tried to help but he refused. He caused his own demise through his insatiable desire for sex and money.
How many marbles did they have left on eventual retirement?
Marciano retiring at 31 was his prerogative. Who’s to say for what reasons? 31 is kind of getting up there for a boxer.
As for other fighters and their records, it varies.
Joe Fraser totaled only 37 pro fights
Mike Tyson totaled 56
Ali totaled 61
It varies across-the-board for all the fighters.
From this list alone, with Marciano at 49, he fits right between Mike Tyson and George Fraser. 🤷🏻♂️
LEGEND'S ARE BORN FROM JUST REGULAR PEOPLE WITH. ...A HEART 💖💖💖💖💖 OF 🥇🥇🥇🥇 GOLD!
I WISH 🙏🙏🙏 THIS DJ 🎧🎤🎶🎧🎶 KNEW HIM PERSONALLY!
MY ITALIAN FRIENDS HAVE LOVED ME SOOO MUCH! ITALIAN HERITAGE IS MY PRIDE!💖💖💖💖
Zhang - 287
Joyce - 280
Fury - 277
Ngannou - 272
Briggs - 265
Ruiz - 265
Grant - 265
Makhmudov - 260
Lennox - 250
Parker - 250
Foreman - 250
Vitali - 250
Peter - 250
Joshua - 250
Whyte - 250
Ibeabuchi - 245
Kabayel - 245
Wladimir - 245
Anderson - 245
Hrgovic - 245
Sanchez - 245
Ruddock - 245
Bowe - 240
Ortiz - 240
Witherspoon - 235
Tua - 235
Dokes - 235
Bruno - 230
Morrison - 230
Cooney - 230
Wilder - 225
Thomas - 225
Usyk - 222
Lyle - 220
Holmes - 218
Ali - 218
Tyson - 218
Liston - 218
*Marciano - 184 with the shortest ever 67" flyweight reach*
*Charles - 181 with the lowest ever 42% KO's*
*Moore - 175 light heavyweight champion from 1952 to 1962*
Rocky fans always knew his post war drained era had an expiration date and that time has arrived. He was never tested against genuine topnotch 200+lbs Heavyweights let alone authentic topnotch 224+lbs Super Heavyweights.
But he went 49-0, yes he did, against who?
Middleweights and light heavyweights
masquerading as Heavyweights.
Walcott was at least 40,
Moore was at least 42,
Charles factually had ALS and Louis was washed.
*Rocky never fought an all-time great in his prime.*
Heck, in my opinion today's light heavyweight phenom Artur Beterbiev would annihilate Marciano! Rocky was flat-footed wide open and never used the jab.
*Rocky's era was undoubtedly without a doubt*
*the absolute worst Heavyweight division in boxing history!*
Miller weighs - 305
Zhang - 285
Bakole - 285
Teremoana - 285
Ruiz - 275
Briggs - 265
Grant - 265
Fury - 262
Jalolov - 253
Parker - 250
Foreman - 220/250
Vitali - 250
Peter - 250
Joshua - 250
Whyte - 250
Ibeabuchi - 245
Lennox - 245
Kabayel - 245
Wladimir - 245
Dubois - 245
Sanchez - 245
Ruddock - 245
Hrgovic - 245
Itauma - 240
Wardley - 240
Bowe - 240
Ortiz - 240
Witherspoon - 235
Tua - 235
Dokes - 235
Bruno - 230
Morrison - 230
Cooney - 230
Thomas - 225
Usyk - 223
Lyle - 220
Tyson - 218
Holmes - 218
Wilder - 218
Ali - 218
Liston - 218
Frazier - 206
Dempsey - 187
*Moore - 175 lb Light heavyweight champion from 1952 to 1962.*
*Charles - 181 lb Heavyweight champion with lowest ever 42% KO's.*
*Marciano - 184 lb Heavyweight champion with 67" flyweight reach.*
Little Marciano's era was undoubtedly the smallest and weakest Heavyweight division in boxing history and that's not even remotely debatable!
5' 9" 184 lb Rocky's entire legacy is built around his endurance and punches thrown per round. To claim his endurance and punching prowess was better than everyone else's is utter nonsense. Super Heavyweights Ibeabuchi and Tua threw a record breaking 1,730 punches! *"6' 6" 285 lb Bakole holds the #2 and #3 spot in terms of most total punches thrown by a Heavyweight in a single round, he's thrown 147 in one round before." - ( @**1:20** Combat : Bakole vs Jared from CLIMAT RDC TV ).* It's incredible the way so many Rocky fans try to turn him into something that he was not. I've read hundreds of fabricated story's. *The best one being his punch was equivalent to a 44 magnum bullet. If that were true why didn't he kill all of his opponents? Everyone on planet earth can clearly see Rocky's punching power is overrated. He hit his opponents hundreds of times with little to no effect. Most of his opponents were fighting again the very next day (Ross) or only one month later. Walcott Charles Moore Layne Matthews etc. were all back in training several days later.*
No way Marciano could have dealt with Patterson’s evasiveness and tremendous speed. Marciano was small, short, slow, clumsy and easy to hit. Little Rocky got knocked down by ancient Archie and struggled for 9 to put the grandfather away. Only 14 months later Patterson walks through Moore without blinking in only 5. What Marciano sees convinces him to stay retired inorder to save face.
Hey, Marciano is the one that "QUIT" after a measly 7 years. If he didn't🏃💨 away they undoubtedly would have fought!!! Moore didn't run away!!! Charles didn't run away!!! Joe Louis came out of retirement so he definitely didn't run away!!! Walcott came out of retirement so he definitely didn't run away!!! It's clear as day that Patterson's blinding speed and youth would have been too much for the Rock.
The knock down looks similar to the same way Jersey Joe Walcot was knock out !?
What incredible chins all these men have !!!
*EZZARD CHARLES WAS 100% FACTUALLY HANDICAPPED WITH LOU GEHRIG'S DISEASE WHEN HE FOUGHT MARCIANO TWICE IN 1954!!!*
Ezzard said he first noticed the ailment in 1951, *"after a guy hit me, I didn't seem to be able to get away,"* he recalled, *"I didn't have the same coordination."* Ezzard himself, his family, Ezzard's trainer's Ray Arcel, Jimmy Brown, Chickie Ferrera and Bill Gore all said they noticed signs of ALS in 1951. *--William Dettloff’s book 'Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life'*
There's no room for debate, too many reputable witnesses. If in doubt file defamation lawsuits against Ezzard, his family, his trainers and William Dettloff. (Renowned physicist Stephen Hawking lived with ALS for 55 years).
I'm sorry Heavyweight was only 175 lbs back then cuz it sure as hell ain't today. Today's Super Heavyweight world is laughing at Rocky's 49-0 which consisted mainly of natural middleweights masquerading as Heavyweights. *Fact.* He never fought one topnotch genuine 200+lbs Heavyweight. *Fact.* Don't matter how tough the little guy was, ain't no 184 lb man with flyweight reach gonna beat the Giants of modern times. It's no wonder Hall of Fame trainer Emanuel Steward said, *"Marciano was too small. He really wasn't a Heavyweight. 5' 10", exceptionally short arms, very clumsy, cut easy, had troubled balance. 188 lbs was just too small."* @ Emanuel Steward: Ali all time greatest, Klitschko number eight
*If size doesn't matter why hasn't there been another 184 lb Heavyweight champion since Little Rocky's Little era 4 generations ago?*
Combined Walcott Charles Moore Louis already had 431 fights before they fought Rocky. Add the 96 fights Louis had during his 4 year military service, that's 527 fights not to mention Walcott and Louis retired for 6½ years. Those four were already ring worn and washed. Anyone that says otherwise is biased.
A good honest decent heavyweight legend, when you have that sort of will to win it doesn't matter who gets put in front of you you are there to win PERIOD!
little *flyweight-reach 184lb-cruiser Rocky's resume:*
Lee Epperson - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Weeks - 0 wins 1 loss with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilbert Cardone - 0 wins 3 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
John Edwards - 1 win 2 loss with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bill Hardeman - 1 win 6 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Humphrey Jackson - 4 wins 2 losses with 28% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Haft - 12 wins 8 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
James Connolly - 12 wins 9 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harry Bilazarian - 15 wins 12 losses with 35% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Bob Jefferson - 3 wins 10 losses with 0% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Harold Mitchell 4 wins 17 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gilley Ferron - 4 wins 13 losses with 17% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Artie Donato - 7 wins 13 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Johnny Pretzie - 10 wins 13 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Don Mogard - 20 wins 16 losses with 15% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Pete Louthis - 32 wins 14 losses with 35% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Tommy DiGiorgio - 9 wins 15 losses with 4% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Kenne Simmons - 9 wins 22 losses with 12% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Art Henri -18 wins 29 losses with 18% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Jimmy Walls - 20 wins 41 losses with 7% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Ted Lowry (twice) - 71 wins 68 losses with 30% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Gino Buonvino (twice) - 24 wins 15 losses with 10% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Joe Dominic - 18 wins 12 losses with 33% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Eldridge Eatman - 22 wins 21 losses with 22% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Willis Applegate -12 wins 16 losses with 13% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Lee Savold - 104 wins 45 losses with 50% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Phil Muscato - 56 wins 23 losses with 25% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Bill Wilson - 56 wins 27 losses with 51% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Johnny Shkor - 31 wins 19 losses with 42% KOs *F-LEVEL*
Fred Beshore - 35 wins 17 losses with 24% KOs *D-LEVEL*
Jimmy Evans - 18 wins 8 losses with 50% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Eddie Ross - 19 wins 5 losses with 72% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 10 debuting amateurs and 7 other opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bob Quinn - 20 wins 4 losses with 58% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 13 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Bernie Reynolds - 53 wins 13 losses with 49% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 30 opponents with 15 fights or less.*
Pat Richards - 24 wins 9 losses with 39% KOs looks okay until you see *he fought 20 opponents with 10 fights or less.*
Carmine Vingo - 16 wins 2 losses with 38% KOs looks good until you see *ALL 16 wins came against F-LEVEL opponents.*
*Even little Rocky's best 3-opponents Charles Moore Walcott (two light heavy's & one cruiser) lost (68) times and were KO'd (20) times!*
"In the old days, ringers could boost their income by fighting repeatedly. Padding your record against weak opponents can yield good results- the real stumblebums are the guys who make a career of losing. In small-time fights, the less-talented fighter often gets the bulk of the cash; he is, after all, providing a valuable service by losing so reliably." --The Ring
Marciano handlers were afraid to put him in with anyone who could pose much of a threat after coming so close to tasting defeat vs. LaStarza. So his next opponent was *F-LEVEL* Eldridge Eatman who had lost 8 of his last 9 fights. Everybody knew it was a gimme fight for an undefeated fighter.
Then there was *F-LEVEL* Ted Lowry
who had a career 71 wins 68 losses.
Marciano's 32nd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Keene Simmons
who had a career 8 wins 8 losses.
Marciano's 33rd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell
who had a career 4 wins 17 losses.
Marciano's 34th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Art Henri
who had a career 13 wins 14 losses.
Marciano's 35th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate
who had a career 11 wins 14 losses.
*It's clear as day Mafia Boss Frankie Carbo & associate Al Weill padded and cherry-picked Marciano's resume his entire (but very short) career.*
Lewis Watson, boxing writer and historian, speaks of the artificial puffing up of records against cherry picked competition saying: “Unbeaten records are fairly padded; you have to look if there are any notable victories coming against first rate competition."
*Who did little 184lb-cruiser Rocky fight? He fought nobody notable until Journeyman Walcott who was at least 40 if not older. Walcott never had a birth certificate, he created one in his mid 20s. It's all in his biography, Chapter 9 page 71. Then there was light heavyweight Charles who had symptoms of Lou Gehrig's disease in 1951. It's all in his biography by William Dettloff. Rocky quickly finished his very short career against light heavyweight Archie Moore who was at least 42 if not older. Some "Heavyweight" resume, sad.*
Fer two decades the Marciano's have been tryin to remove this article @ THE ROCK Sports Illustrated Vault Aug\23\1993 but cannot bcz it's all factual!!! Many defamation lawsuits have been filed but all failed. He was seriously messed up. His friends tried to help but he refused. He caused his own demise through his insatiable desire for sex and money.
If 42 year old light heavyweight Moore and 38 year old cruiserweight Walcott could drop little white Rocky then the Tyson's, Foreman's, Klitschko's and Ibeabuchi's of the world woulda kilt him. How can a 185 pound man even be considered an ATG Super Heavyweight when he was barely cruiserweight?
Could you imagine 41 year old light heavyweight Archie Moore busting up King Fury and Big George Foreman or any of the great Super Heavyweights? Yet little white Marciano had all he could handle and was floored with one glancing shot from the light heavyweight grandfather.
Rocky Marciano's record, 49-0, seeing that it looks and sounds so good. That is, until I take a peek at who he actually fought during his career. I feel, that boxing was more unskilled back then, the fighters looked so weak, and the Heavyweight division, in particular, so watered down due to many of the young American men being forced to serve in the Korean War.
Marciano, though, seems to mean a lot to people, almost seeming like a symbol for some of them, and brings out some strong assumptions about his place in history. If you for one second question Marciano’s record, it’s as if you comitted some cardinal sin or something. Give me a break. He was a good fighter, but not that good.
While I am fond of the Heavyweight division, I don’t really consider Marciano to be a true Heavyweight given his short stature, which, at 5’ 10” 185 lb, he would even be considered small for Cruiserweight in this day and age. However, Marciano’s good luck of fighting during the war years, which had to have had a dramatic effect on the pool of quality opponents to compete with. I mean, it hardly seems sporting that there were so few quality fighters to gauge Marciano’s talent.
What’s even worse, Marciano’s career Heavyweight championship rein, a mere three years and 6 six fights, came about, luckily for him, after Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott, had aged beyond their prime, leaving Marciano free to beat up on the older warriors when they weren’t at their best. Probably, for many people, what I’m saying about Marciano, is a bitter pill to swallow, but if you look into his ring history very far, I’m sure most of you would come to the same conclusion.
Marciano, at the age of 32, announced his retirement from boxing in April 1956. The announcement was a shock for many people, needless to say, for they figured that Marciano was going to hold onto the title for years to come, and had not seen a fighter quit while at the top.
Perhaps the punishment from Moore, and his two ring wars with Charles, gave him a hint that he didn’t have much longer. Or possibly, Marciano might have been hearing the footsteps of the next heavyweight champion, Floyd Patterson, who was a young up and coming contender, with a 30-1 record at the time of Marciano’s retirement. Patterson would later win the vacant heavyweight title, stopping Archie Moore in the 5th round in November 1956, the same year that Marciano retired.
Personally, I feel that Marciano was tremendously overrated as a fighter. He was good, yes, but he fought his toughest fights against fighters that were beyond their best years. So, when looking at his accomplishments, one must keep that in mind, otherwise you’re seeing a warped image of how good Marciano really was.
Moreover, his ring record of 49-0, was largely built on fighting 2nd and 3rd tier fighters, opponents that were essentially ring fodder and were easily knocked out by decent fighters. The only decent fighters that he beat during his career were LH Moore, LH Charles, LH Matthews, Layne, Lastarza, and Walcott. Not too good, is it?
The fact that the vast majority of his opponents were of marginal ability, along with the old age and ring wear of the ones that were good, and you get a beautiful record of 49-0. It looks good on paper, but it hardly means that you were the best.
Rocky Marciano is in my top 5 of the greatest heavyweights of all time.
And even if you are 100% right about the quality/age of Rocky’s opponents,
was that Rocky’s fault? You can only beat what is in front of you and Rocky
certainly did that.
Had little Rocky had a normal duration boxing career like "EVERYONE" else did he would have had to face the likes of Patterson, Machen, Johansson, Liston, Cleveland, Folley, Valdez, Johansson, Cooper, Miteff, London, Mildenberger, Jones, Clay, Terrell, Chuvalo, Bonavena, Quarry, Martin and Ellis just to name a few. Instead he only dealt with "Light" heavyweights similar to Matthews, Lowry, Charles and Moore just to name a few. Little Marciano is damned lucky he "QUIT" when he did!!!
@@jamescokl3 No way , Rock barely beat old Walcott. Today Walcott wins 12 round ud. Marciano never beat Ted Lowry. His manager Al Weill made sure of that. Quarry and Chuvalo both said they would ko Marciano and that Marciano fought bums. I see Liston and Ali on that list . No way the Rock wins these bouts. Rocks new name would be pebbles.
@@jamescokl3 Marciano and what army?
@user-vb4rc8tt6n maybe you're right.
@@louis-i5f ?????
Love this doc!! Very grateful ! Thank You!!
Most people openly admit that the versions of Charles, Moore and Walcott that he fought were far from prime (The Joe Louis and Lee Savold fights really doesn't even deserve to be brought up). So it isn't the quality of Rocky's competition that his reputation is based on among the greats, it is that famous record 49-0. If Rocky's 49-0 record is the basis of his greatness then the fighters on that record should be the very best that were available. But by my reckoning that is the furthest thing from the truth. Infact when you look at the highest ranked fighters of the era, and then you look at his record, it's scandalous how many he didn't fight. Many of the ones he DID choose to fight are just as scandalous.
Top fighters Marciano definitely should have fought that he didn't.
*1)* Harold Johnson
*2)* Oakland Billy Smith
*3)* Yolande Pompey
*4)* Curtis Hatchetman Sheppherd
*5)* Clarence Henry
*6)* Joey Maxim
*7)* Marty Marshall
*8)* Bob Satterfield
*9)* Jimmy Bivins
*10)* Lloyd Marshall
*11)* Nino Valdes
Those are just the definites, we could add many other names (like Tommy Jackson, Dan Bucceroni or even Bob Baker) that while not as good, are definitely better than some of the guys he DID fight that make up that "legendary" record. Guys like these;
Lee Epperson (Career Record 0-1)
Jimmy Weeks (Career Record 0-1)
Gilbert Cardone (Career Record 0-3)
John Edwards (Career Record 1-2)
Bill Hardeman (Career Record 1-7)
Humphrey Jackson (Career Record 4-3)
Johnnie Pretzie (Career Record 10-14)
Bob Jefferson (Career Record 3-10)
Gilley Ferron (Career Record 4-13)
Tommy DiGiorgio (Career Record 9-15)
Artie Donato (Career Record 7-13)
Harry Haft (Career Record 12-7)
James Connoly (Career Record 12-9)
Harry Bilazarian (Career Record 15-12)
Joe Dominic (Career Record 18-12)
Don Mogard (Career Record 20-16)
Jimmy Walls (Career Record 21-41)
Eldridge Eatman (Career Record 22-21) according to BoxRec and the Providence Journal, *"Marciano hit Eatman with a right in the 3rd round and Eatman went down, THOUGH IT DIDN'T APPEAR HE WAS HIT"* Not only did Eldridge take a-dive vs. Rocky but he had just lost 8 of his last 9 fights. Why would a 26-0 boxer fight an F-LEVEL diver who had just lost 8 fights? It's clear as day Mafia Boss Carbo and underboss Al Weill cherry picked and padded Rocky's resume!
Marciano's 32nd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Keene Simmons who had a career 9 wins 22 losses.
Marciano's 33rd fight was against *F-LEVEL* Harold Mitchell who had a career 7 wins 16 losses. *(Harold had just lost 10 fights in a row before diving against Rocky)*
Marciano's 34th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Art Henri who had a career 18 wins 29 losses.
Marciano's 35th fight was against *F-LEVEL* Willis Applegate who had a career 12 wins 16 losses.
Immediately *((same day))* after 170-lb diver Eddie Ross was supposedly KO'd by Marciano he drove from Rhode Island Providence to Quebec City Quebec -- 8 hr 15 min 465.9 mi via I-93 N inorder to fight 160-lb Billy Sparks.. ( *"Amazing recovery by Eddie Ross after being KO'd by Rocky Marciano the previous day."* --BoxRec and Providence Journal ) Inspect Eddie's resume, it's hilarious!
None of these guys beat anyone of note! Many of these guys he even fought pretty far into his career when there were obviously alternatives. In light of this should this 49-0 record be as revered as it is to some?
Even if Marciano could have fought a prime Moore and a prime Charles he'd still be fightin light heavyweights who were both knocked out by middleweights Marshall and Booker. And even you wanna pretend they were in their primes the point is little Marciano still struggled with light heavyweights.
Y'all fanboys treat little white Marciano as if he were god himself. When he walked the earth shook. Society shouldn't care more about person X just because he was a good boxer. Marciano was no more important than everyday, hard-working people. He only defended his cruiserweight title 6 times. Against middleweight turned "Light" heavyweight Matthews. "Light" heavyweight Charles twice. "Light" heavyweight Moore. A very "unhealthy" Cockell. A very small 184 lb cruiserweight LaStarza. And washed cruiserweight Walcott who lost 20 times and was KOd 6 times... That's it? What's the big deal? What's so great about that? For a world champion title holder that's an extremely weak resume. It don't get no worse than that. And considering his opponents bodyweight it's downright embarrassing.
Identity bias.
There are few heavyweight champions in the history of boxing that are better known for their losses than their wins. Jersey Joe Walcott's high profile losses is what elevated his status and built up his credentials, not his wins.
During his peak championship years, Walcott scored 7 wins with 5 KO's. Only one of those KO's came against a ranked fighter, that being Ezzard Charles. During this time Walcott also lost 7 times and suffered 10 count KO's 3 times and a 9 count once. In total fights during this time Walcott's record was 7-7. In title fights he went 2-6 with 1 KO win and 3 KO losses. He fought 3 different men in his 8 title fights, was defeated by each of them twice, KO'd by two of them and only defeated one of them.
In his overall career, Walcott had a 49-20-1 record and was KO'd 6 times (BoxRec). Based on these less than impressive stats it is difficult to consider him anymore than a good Journeyman.
Walcott scored 32 KO's in 70 fights. 8 of them came against fighters who were winless. The only two ranked fighters Walcott ever KO'd was an off the floor 10th round win over Curtis Sheppard and the lightning in the bottle KO of Ezzard Charles.
Walcott is a prime example of boxing historians rating a fighter higher than he deserves based on impressive losses. Walcott was winless in all 4 of his fights vs Louis/Marciano and was KO'd 3 times.
The fact that Walcott was granted 6 title attempts in a 6 year span speaks volumes about how weak the heavyweight division must have been at this time. Five of these title opportunities came immediately after a Walcott loss.
Had Walcott been fighting in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 2000's, there is no way he would have been granted this many opportunities after losing so many title attempts.
Walcott should at best be remembered not as a great heavyweight champion, but a good C-level Journeyman.
*If a fighter today had 20 losses and was KO'd 6 times he'd be considered F-level. Wilder and Joshua only have 5 losses between them yet they are already considered has-beens. But it's perfectly fine for Walcott Charles Moore to have 68 Losses. Lennox Lewis was KO'd 2 times and his top-10 ranking has suffered ever since. But it's perfectly fine for Walcott Charles Moore to have been KO'd 20 times!!! Double standard. If King Fury losses just "ONE" time his top-10 credibility will be in jeopardy forever. Double standard.
The more i investigate each one of white hype Rocky's opponents the more i realize just how undeniably pathetic and controlled his 49-0 actually was.
From the May/June 1957 British Edition of The Ring... Y'all can listen to why he actually retired in his own words @ The Rocky Marciano Archives, "Rocky Marciano reasons for retirement." ..Rocky explains that his wife had absolutely *"NOTHING"* to do with his retirement and he had *"ZERO INJURIES!!!"* Little 184lb cruiser Rocky was *"a-QUITTER"* plain and simple. He also quit on his own kids and wife!!! He said he retired for them but it was all a lie!!! He immediately abandoned them to sleep with thousands then left them penniless!!! '"He constantly had •••ies night and day...I carried a suitcase full of electric massagers and oils.'" -@ THE ROCK Sports Illustrated Vault | SI 1993/08/23
Another f,n jealous of rocky because he was,nt black, he beat everyone's ass. And he would beat all of your not so super big overweight terrible timing heavyweights of this era too.
The "Rock" had a great pro debut against the formidable Lee Epperson. It was a scheduled 4 round fight. Lee was rough and ready at 0-0 and after losing this fight he never fought again. He finished his pro career at 0-1.
Got a point?
@Boots_on_the_ground Big Lee was the first of many cream puffs to step into the ring with Marciano. Secondly, many of Marciano's "professional" fights were only scheduled for four rounds like an amateur bout would be.
@@PanchoBotas "Twelve-round fights are predominantly used when a world championship or other major title such as European or interim world title is on the line. In other circumstances, such as when a new boxer debuts or is still working their way up the ranks, the promoters of both fighters involved may agree that a shorter distance is appropriate. Many debutants begin with four-round fights and work their way up through six, eight and 10-rounders until they are ready for championship bouts." I guess you weren't aware of that. In the fight you refer to, it was Marciano's first fight, it was Epperson's first fight. Are you some kind of fool?
@@Boxrec297 Championship fights went 15 rounds until 1982.
What Marciano did to his family is unforgivable. During his retirement speech, and during his appearance on the Ed Sullivan show he said, "I want to spend more time with my family." *IT WAS ALL A LIE.* He immediately abandoned his kids and wife to sleep with thousands then left them penniless @ *Aug\23\1993 -- THE ROCK Sports Illustrated Vault*
Clay avoided Vietnam
Please do continue spouting your lies...
@@TejayLister Okay, Cassius Clay is the Greatest
@@user-wi9se5ll3j I'm not talking to you, you're correct.
@@Bobby.D.1776 gay
The 1950s was all about the Light heavyweights, not the Heavyweights. Light heavyweights Moore, Charles, Maxim, Bivins, Johnson, Pastrano, Marshall, Matthews, Haft, Lowry, Applegate, Jefferson, etc, fought back and forth amongst themselves 40+times.
Besides Light heavyweights Charles and Moore, another boxer that caused havoc for little Marciano was Cruiserweight Walcott who lost to Light heavyweight's Charles 'twice', Fox 'twice', Maxim, Brothers, Taylor, AND middleweights Mays, Palmer, Ketchell.
Overall Walcott Lost (20) times and was KOd (6) times. Walcott's most notable victories include wins over Light heavy Charles, Light heavy Maxim, and Light heavy Johnson. Charles Lost (25) times and was KOd (7) times. Maxim Lost (29) times and was KO'd (1) time. Johnson Lost (11) times and was KO'd (5) times.
Journeyman Joe lost throughout his entire career, beginning, middle, end. He fought for the title 6 times and lost 5 times. Walcott is Not an ATG. At best he is a C-level Journeyman.
In summary Marciano's 3 best opponents were 2 Light heavyweights and 1 Cruiserweight. To make matters worse Moore was factually 41yrs old, and Walcott was 39 when he intentionally took a dive for his last giant paycheck.
*Rocky Marciano himself fought 2 *middleweights*, Eddie Ross and Harry Bilazarian.
Chuck Wepner who fought both Liston and Foreman said that compared to Liston, Foreman was Mr. Friendly. He said that getting hit by George was like getting hit by an incredibly strong man, getting hit by Sonny was like getting hit by a baseball bat. Wepner left the ring of the Liston fight looking like he had just been in a horrific car accident. The fight was stopped by ring doctor after the 9th round, Wepner had 6 massive cuts to his face that required the most ever 338 stitches[1] and was pouring blood everywhere, his left eye was swollen completely shut, his cheek as well as nose were broken.
1. Chuck describes his record 338 stitches -- 'Chuck Wepner interview with Tony Polito' @14:20
( Liston expert, Paul Gallender said, "Sonny Liston was killed by the mobsters, with a heroin overdose, because he didn’t throw the Wepner fight")
The great white hope Marciano battered Don Cockell, another light heavyweight masquerading as a Heavyweight. Rock was the biggest phony ever, how in the hell could boxing allow such deceit, they must legitimize his legacy so they brought out of retirement an OLD, RETIRED, AND COMPLETELY BROKE, JOE LOUIS
But he throw the fight with Ali Sony work with the mob
He was a power packed technician, the best.
The GOAT
Rocky's opponents Charles Walcott Moore Savold Lowry Layne Cockell Wilson Shkor Walls Henri Simmons Eatman Muscato & Besore Lost *(("'411'"))* times:
Charles *(25)*
Walcott *(20)*
Moore *(23)*
Savold *(45)*
Lowry *(68)*
Layne *(17)*
Cockell *(14)*
Wilson *(27)*
Shkor *(19)*
Walls *(41)*
Henri *(29)*
Simmons *(22)*
Eatman *(21)*
Muscato *(23)*
Besore *(17)*
*((411)) Losses and Rocky fans have the audacity to say today's Heavyweights are Bum's HAHAHAHA*
*"SHOW ME A HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION WITHOUT A LOSS AND I'LL SHOW YOU A FIGHTER THAT FOUGHT A LOT OF NOBODIES."* - Lennox Lewis
*"NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF BOXING HAS A 185 LB MAN BEAT A PRIME TOP-NOTCH SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT BOXING CHAMPION."* - Ring Magazine
Rocky constantly gets praised for his *("0")* losses. That's not all. Rocky fans also praise Walcott's *(20)* losses, Charles's *(25)* losses and Moore's *(23)* losses. That's *(68)* losses? Why are they getting praised for *(68)* losses? Bcz they fought *(god)* Rocky. Louis lost to Schmeling and catches hell. Tyson lost to Buster Douglas and catches hell. Ali lost to Frazier and catches hell. Bowe lost to Holyfield and catches hell. Liston lost to Marty Marshall and catches hell. Lennox lost twice and catches hell. But Walcott Charles Moore lost *(68)* times and only catch Praise. Doesn't make sense. Or does it? Of course it makes sense, it's called two-faced biased double standard. Combined, Walcott Charles Moore lost *(68)* times and were KO'd *(20)* times. Had little Rocky never existed nobody would even be talkin bout Walcott Charles Moore. Truth is Marciano fans could careless about Walcott Charles Moore otherwise they would never denigrate and belittle other black fighters such as Liston Holmes Tyson. I've studied Marciano extensively and it just dawned on me that is exactly what's happening. Rocky fans always besmirch black fighters EXCEPT for Walcott Charles Moore. I've witnessed it hundreds of times, pure Hate for Liston Holmes Tyson, yet pure Love for Walcott Charles Moore.
I'm sorry Heavyweight was only 175 lbs back then cuz it sure as hell ain't today. Today's Super Heavyweight world is laughing at Rocky's 49-0 which consists mainly of natural middleweights masquerading as Heavyweights. *Fact.* He never fought one topnotch genuine 200+lbs Heavyweight. *Fact.* Don't matter how tough the little guy was, ain't no 184 lb man with flyweight reach gonna beat the Giants of modern times. It's no wonder Hall of Fame trainer Emanuel Steward said, *"Marciano was too small. He really wasn't a Heavyweight. 5' 10", exceptionally short arms, very clumsy, cut easy, had troubled balance. 188 lbs was just too small."* @ Emanuel Steward: Ali all time greatest, Klitschko number eight
*If size doesn't matter why hasn't there been another 184 lb Heavyweight champion since Little Rocky's Little era 4 generations ago?*
@Gregory_E_Rochette_BevoMillSTL He fought everyone who was available to him and beat them. He could have gone 60-0
🔥Paranoid psychoses--(symptoms Marciano suffered) @ 1993/08/23 THE ROCK - Sports Illustrated Vault | SI
Even if little white Marciano could have fought a prime Moore and a prime Charles he'd still be fightin light heavyweights who were both knocked out by middleweights Marshall and Booker. And even you wanna pretend they were in their primes the point is little Marciano still struggled with light heavyweights.
Identity bias.
The decathlon is one of the best, if not the best test for speed/strength/endurance. The oldest any World or Olympic Champion has ever been is 32 (Roman Sebrle). This would leave one to believe that after 32 athletes will have started to decline- if not earlier. Boxers are only ever measured against their opponents, the best boxers that Marciano ever fought were undoubtedly past their prime. Marciano quit at 31 for a reason. It was because he grew weary of his training regimen.
Rocky fought everyone who was put in front of him and beat them all. And knocked out 43 o them. The reason he retired at 31 was because of his back injury. HIs style was tough on his back friend.
@@johnreidy2804 That's incorrect ---- @ 'The Marciano Archives Reason for Retirement'
@@Bobby.D.1776 To the best of my knowledge it was a back injury friend
From the May/June 1957 British Edition of The Ring... Y'all can listen to why he actually retired in his own words @ The Rocky Marciano Archives, "Rocky Marciano reasons for retirement." ..Rocky explains that his wife had absolutely *"NOTHING"* to do with his retirement and he had *"ZERO INJURIES!!!"* Little 184lb cruiser Rocky was *"a-QUITTER"* plain and simple. He also quit on his own kids and wife!!! He said he retired for them but it was all a lie!!! He immediately abandoned them to sleep with thousands then left them penniless!!! '"He constantly had •••ies night and day...I carried a suitcase full of electric massagers and oils.'" -@ THE ROCK Sports Illustrated Vault | SI 1993/08/23
@@johnreidy2804 From the May/June 1957 British Edition of The Ring... Y'all can listen to why he actually retired in his own words @ The Rocky Marciano Archives, "Rocky Marciano reasons for retirement." ..Rocky explains that his wife had absolutely *"NOTHING"* to do with his retirement and he had *"ZERO INJURIES!!!"* Little 184lb cruiser Rocky was *"a-QUITTER"* plain and simple. He also quit on his own kids and wife!!! He said he retired for them but it was all a lie!!! He immediately abandoned them to sleep with thousands then left them penniless!!! '"He constantly had •••ies night and day...I carried a suitcase full of electric massagers and oils.'" -@ THE ROCK Sports Illustrated Vault | SI 1993/08/23
20th anniversary of the documentary of Rocky Marciano A Life Story
Louis bravely fought *(17)* years...........little Rocky only *7* years
Walcott bravely fought *(23)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years
Charles bravely fought *(20)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years
Moore bravely fought *(27)* years.........little Rocky only *7* years
Savold bravely fought *(19)* years........little Rocky only *7* years
Matthews bravely fought *(19)* years...little Rocky only *7* years
LaStarza bravely fought *(14)* years.....little Rocky only *7* years
Cockell bravely fought *(10)* years.......little Rocky only *7* years
Lowry bravely fought *(16)* years.........little Rocky only *7* years
Louis fought *(69)* times.............little Rocky quit at *49*
Walcott fought *(70)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49*
Charles fought *(121)* times.......little Rocky quit at *49*
Moore fought *(220)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49*
Savold fought *(142)* times.........little Rocky quit at *49*
Matthews fought *(103)* times.. .little Rocky quit at *49*
LaStarza fought *(66)* times.......little Rocky quit at *49*
Cockell fought *(81)* times..........little Rocky quit at *49*
Lowry fought *(150)* times..........little Rocky quit at *49*
Charles Lost *(25)* times and was KOd *(7)* times
Moore Lost *(23)* times and was KO'd *(7)* times
Walcott Lost *(20)* times and was KOd *(6)* times
Savold Lost *(43)* times and was KO'd *(12)* times
Lowry Lost *(68)* times and was KO'd *(3)* times
Cockell Lost *(14)* times and was KO'd *(9)* times
LaStarza Lost *(9)* times and was KO'd *(2)* times
*Shocking isn't it? We never see these stats bcz they're always suppressed. Today's Genuine Super Heavyweights Zhang Bakole Joshua Fury Ruiz Parker Kabayel Itauma Jalolov Anderson Dubois only have a combined (15) losses yet they're already being thrown under the bus for eternity but it's perfectly fine for little Rocky's little light heavy opposition masquerading as little cruisers to have a combined ((684)) losses!!!*
*HOW MANY LOSSES DID THE "'BEST"' HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONS OF ALL TIME HAVE:*
Lewis --------- *2*
Holmes ------ *6*
Ali -------------- *5*
Vitali ----------- *2*
Foreman ---- *5*
Tyson -------- *6*
Wladimir ---- *5*
Bowe --------- *1*
Liston -------- *4*
Louis --------- *3*
Holyfield -- *10*
Frazier ------- *4*
Norton ------- *7*
Tunney ------ *1*
Dempsey --- *6*
Johnson --- *11*
*"SHOW ME A HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION WITHOUT A LOSS AND I'LL SHOW YOU A FIGHTER THAT FOUGHT A LOT OF NOBODIES"* -- Lennox Lewis
I come to feel that "Yeah, but what if" is disrespectful to Marciano's accomplishments in boxing.
I didn't always feel that way about him.
I've come to admire him greatly because he was a fellow working class man, and so was his father.
All known heavyweight champions have lost at least one fight, and Marciano is no different in that regard. (I don't care whether the adult men combatants were fighting for prize money or not. A loss is a loss)
However, you must give him respect for the record he had and the number of knockouts.
Hall of Fame Heavyweight Champion Sonny Liston was a muscular 6′2″ powerhouse weighing 220 lbs of pure brick. He had iron in either fist and could put an opponent on the mat quickly with either. Sonny was the most ducked fighter of all time. Even Joe Frazier’s team refused to fight him. Liston in his prime was the real deal. He was a great fighter.
Patterson's easy defeat of Archie Moore was most impressive at such a young age. He took Moore out a lot easier and a lot sooner than Marciano did. Also with much less effort and much less punches. Floyd Patterson still remains the youngest undisputed Heavyweight champion.
Different style of fighters. Joe Frazier gave muhammed Ali a run for his money for 3 grueling fights. Yet feel to foreman in not even 4 rounds twice. Than you have Muhammad Ali who not only defeated foreman but put him out of the spotlight for over a decade.
@@vikinghoodbluelighthouse2911 Foreman would have done the same to little Marciano as he did to Frazier.
@@vikinghoodbluelighthouse2911 *When "The President" Nigerian Ike Ibeabuchi met "The Tuamanator" Samoan David Tua the Nigerian got out to an insanely fast start, throwing 91 punches in round one according to CompuBox, 91 again in round two, and 95 in round three, obscene numbers for a Heavyweight. By the final bell, Ibeabuchi and Tua had combined to throw 1,730 punches, breaking the Heavyweight record set by Ali vs. Frazier III, when they combined for 1,591 punches - in 14 rounds, two rounds more than Ibeabuchi and Tua had to work with. Ike threw 975 punches, the most ever by a single Heavyweight. Both fighters had a brawling fight style, they were both 24 years old at the time of this epic "tribal" battle and they were both undefeated going in to this fight. 226lb Tua's record stood at 27-0-0 23KO's while 236lb Ibeabuchi's record stood at 16-0-0 12KO's. This fight is the stuff that dreams were made of. Two Super Heavyweight warriors stood toe to toe exhibiting exceptional heart and endurance. Both boxers threw bombs and neither took a backward step.*
("The Tuamanator" would have obliterated light heavyweights Charles-n-Moore and "The President" woulda walked through little Marciano and Walcott as if they were invisible.)
Marciano was good during his little post war era three generations ago but he would not be relevant against today's top-notch Super Heavyweights similar to:
Undefeated 263lb Makhmudov
Undefeated 248lb Sanchez
Undefeated 247lb Hrgovic
Undefeated 245lb Anderson
Undefeated 275lb Fury just to name a few.
And then there's so many other real-Heavyweights little Rocky couldn't handle similar to:
Lewis
Bowe
Vitali
Ruddock
Witherspoon
Grant
Bruno
Holmes
Ali
Foreman
Liston
Tyson
Usyk
Wladimir
Ruiz
Parker
Ortiz
Dokes
Lyle
Thomas
Weaver
Briggs
Morrison
Cooney
Wilder
*I could "easily" list another Twenty-Five!!!*
@@vikinghoodbluelighthouse2911 Soft spoken Lennox Lewis at his best was the total package. When he fought seriously he was pretty much untouchable. The last undisputed Super Heavyweight champion emerged as cream of the crop against some of the biggest punchers in Heavyweight history.
Lewis avenged his only two defeats by knockout. He didn't make excuses for his only two losses, he said, "It's Heavyweights, you can get caught, but i won the rematches in style," and "Show me a Heavyweight Champion without a loss and i'll show you a fighter that fought a lot of nobodies."
Lewis haters always say, "but he got knocked out twice ha-ha." Well i say, "Mike Tyson got knocked out FIVE times ha-ha, and Ali lost his best 30 years of retirement from having his faculties traumatized for an entire decade. Watching his head used as catchers mitt 100,000 times was ha-ha. IT'S NOT HOW YOU START IT'S HOW YOU FINISH."
57 year old Lennox is the GOAT. To hear him talk so clearly and eloquently after going up against 18 Heavyweight Champions is remarkable.
*The 18 HW Champions Lewis faced: Vitali Klitschko, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Shannon Briggs, Frank Bruno, Tony Tucker, Hasim Rahman, Oliver McCall, Mike Weaver, Henry Akinwande, Tommy Morrison and Ray Mercer were later recognized as WBO champions, British HW champion Gary Mason, European HW champion Jean Chanet, Commonwealth HW champion Derek Williams, Canada HW champion Razor Ruddock, IBF/WBF HW champion Michael Grant, and WBC International HW champion David Tua...*[[ technically not all were 'World' champions but champions nonetheless ]].* Other notable mentions; *Olympic HW Silver medalist Riddick Bowe, Olympic HW Gold medalist Tyrell Briggs, Andrew Golota, Zeljko Mavrovic, Frans Botha and Phil Jackson* ..Name another Super Heavyweight with a better resume? Only person i can think of is Wladimir Klitschko.
How many *"prime"* 200+lb HW Champions
did 185-lb dwarfism-arms fight? *""ZERO""!!!!*
Imagine little Marciano tryin to fight
top-notch Super Heavyweights with
80" to 86" albatross wingspans
and 40 to 90-lb weight advantages?
Light heavyweight Ezzard Charles was definitely Marciano's toughest opponent and is the only person that took him 15 rounds even *with ALS!!!*
*ESPN Ringside - Rocky Marciano @**35:01** Bert Sugar said, "His trainer, Ray Arcel said, that even now, at this stage in 51, and then on into the middle 50s, you could see the beginning, the traces of the disease, that would later claim his life, Lou Gehrig's disease in Charles."*
*People forget when they talk about the fights between Marciano and Ezzard Charles that Charles was showing symptoms of ALS. William Dettloff’s book Ezzard Charles: A Boxing Life documents that Charles first felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 1951 - before he battled Rocky Marciano, Charles was already suffering from the symptoms of ALS, (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis), also known as “Lou Gehrig’s disease.” It is notable when around the time Charles lost to Joe Walcott in 1951, Dettloff records that his family had noticed signs of what they would learn later was ALS.*
*In summary:* Ray Arcel who loved Ezzard like a son, said, *"Charles had traces of ALS in 51."* Ezzard's own family members said, *"they noticed signs of ALS in 51."* Ezzard Charles (himself) said he, *"felt weakness in his limbs, and some numbness, in 51."*
*Trying to deny the fact that Charles had weakness in his limbs (ALS) against Marciano in 1954 is not possible because the eye test does not lie. It happened and is well documented so it can never be swept under the carpet. That horrible Motor neurone gene presented itself in 1951 if not earlier. Ezzard Charles was only 53 when he passed - Rest easy champ.*
@@vikinghoodbluelighthouse2911 little Marciano averaged only 184 pounds for seven years
Marciano's style will play into Liston’s giant hands, as it will violate one of boxing’s holy grail rules and that is, “never slug with a bigger slugger.” Especially when that slugger’s name is Sonny Liston; simply put Liston does it all better than Marciano and also has height, weight and major reach advantage. I can see Liston’s jab being an even more formidable weapon than usual in this matchup, as he won’t have to go looking for Marciano. To put the concept of reach into perspective, you have Liston with a monster 84” reach compared to little Marciano’s 67” reach- this would be decisive. I would favour Liston in a big way. Rocky gets flattened faster than Floyd Patterson.
Sonny had an-albatross 84 inch reach. Rocky had a-stubby 67 inch reach. A 17 inch reach advantage is a tall order to overcome, but when the man with the reach advantage is the most fearsome puncher in history it’s insurmountable. Marciano’s style was tailor made for Liston. Rocky would get knocked into tomorrow before he could get close enough to land any damaging shots of his own. Liston’s power and reach would have been too much for the plodding face first style of Marciano.
So Marciano threw 100 punches in a round? Lol give me a break. Number one Marciano only weighed 185. So even if he threw 100 punches in a round what would that prove? Why compare a light heavyweight punch numbers to a true-Heavyweight. Only sik-minded fanboys would even try to compare.
Little white Marciano could train 1000 years but prime Ali would still crush him. Since Marciano struggled with light heavyweight Charles who was a good boxer, but was smaller weaker and slower than Ali, what makes you think he'd do better against Ali?
Identity bias.
Could you imagine 41 year old light heavyweight Archie Moore busting up King Fury and Big George Foreman or any of the great Super Heavyweights? Yet Marciano had all he could handle and was floored with one glancing shot from the light heavyweight grandfather.
One would think since Marciano was only 185 that he would at least have faster hands than the true Heavyweights right? But Maricano had the slowest hands I've ever seen on a boxer.
Moore had 108 knockouts! 108.
Identity bias.
Thank you!
I quite enjoyed the 100 Greatest Heavyweight series, and it got me thinking about how nice a boost *"Time"* tends to give to a fighters ranking.
1962:
In December 1962, a Ring magazine poll of 40
boxing experts had Jack Dempsey rated the
#1 Heavyweight of all-time, with Joe Louis
2nd, Jack Johnson 3rd and Marciano 7th.
1971:
In 1971, Nat Fleischer, boxing's most
famous historian and also editor and founder
of Ring magazine , named Marciano as the
all-time 10th greatest Heavyweight champion.
1998:
Despite the intervening years producing the likes of Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, Klitschko's et al.," in 1998, Ring magazine named Marciano as the 6th greatest Heavyweight champion ever.
2005:
We float around to 2005, and Marciano was
named the 5th greatest Heavyweight of all-time
by the International Boxing Research Organization.
2007:
In 2007, Marciano was named the 4th greatest Heavyweight of all-time by ESPN behind (in order) Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, and Rocky Marciano.
2023:
We skip to the modern day,
and somehow he's been
bumped up to 3rd.
Will he one day be
greater than Ali???
It's easy to see little Rocky's progression. The key is understanding *why?* Despite his perfect record against the weakest 'Heavyweight' division of all-time, Marciano was never close to being rated towards the top throughout the 60s and 70s. So why did he climb from *10th* in 71, *6th* in 98, to *4th* in 07??? Bcz the greatest boxing historian whoever lived and founder of The Ring Mr. Boxing himself Nat Fleischer died in 72. They all started passing away including Rocky in 69. That's when his fame really started to grow.
*After his death is when all the sympathy articles begin to appear. Then it just grew and grew to the point where he could walk on water and beat every Super Heavyweight champion with ease. Little Rocky was so awesome that even Don Turner said, "Marciano could KO both Klitschko brothers at the same time!"*
*Little Marciano was faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. The Italian infant of Krypton was Superman. He broke 1,247 bones, knocked out 4,679 teeth, and ruptured 792 blood vessels. I also know for a fact that little Rocky is god , because when he walked the earth shook.*
Wow you read in a book that since Marciano trained hard that means he couldn't lose right? Marciano had a strong desire to win? So i guess Frazier wanted Foreman to kick his butt right? Because Frazier had no desire to win....they all wanted to lose. Only Marciano had a desire to win right?
Marciano could train 1000 years but prime Ali would still crush him. Since Marciano struggled with light heavyweight Charles who was a good boxer, but was smaller weaker and slower than Ali, what makes you think he'd do better against Ali?
Identity bias.
@@blackdavidfrost-n-margot727what's a bee sting to iron?
@siddiqgamesyt3354OMG so true, I'm Mexican but I don't say Julio Ceaser Chavez is the best pound 4 pound
🔥psychopath Rocky Marciano--@ 1993/08/23 THE ROCK - Sports Illustrated Vault | SI
If 42 year old light heavyweight Moore and 38 year old cruiserweight Walcott could drop Marciano then the Tyson's, Foreman's, Klitschko's and Ibeabuchi's of the world woulda kilt him. How can a 185 pound man even be considered an ATG Super Heavyweight when he was barely cruiserweight?
Identity bias.
Favourite Heavyweight Ever
Marciano said his best weight he ever fought at was, "186lbs." Tyson was 220lbs at his fastest & best. About 235lbs at his heaviest. Rocky didn't have the speed or footwork to keep Tyson away or the skill or technique to keep him off. And saying that Rocky was tough… well,, tough can get you killed in the ring against a super power puncher with superior skills. This fight wouldn't last 2 rounds with a prime Tyson. And a non-prime Tyson would still be heavier and stronger. Rocky never faced anyone of merit who was near their prime. You wouldn't want Tyson to be your first. Bigger, faster, stronger. With malicious intent. No way Rocky would beat a prime Iron Mike.
I think if Rocky Marciano was around today, those big talented, heavy weights today would’ve really beat him up and you know you would’ve had cuts and bloody noses. They went a few rounds and they would’ve stopped it no lake take a guy like Lennox Lewis he could’ve killed a guy like Rocky was with his bunches you know because he was just so big, but Rocky still did what he did. He just having to beat the year that he fought and he was heavyweight champion. He did have 49 fights with 49 wins and 43 knockouts and you have to respect that and don’t be calling him little Rocky or baby Rocky OK it’s disrespectful.
Here's the newspaper article about Layne's tooth: "Rex Layne lost a left upper tooth..the tooth broke at the gums when Marciano caught the Utahn in the mouth with a full right hand. Layne was taken immediately after the fight to a New York dentist to have the teeth X-rayed and also for treatment on a broken tooth." Layne's handlers said, "the tooth went out with the gumshield." ...so Rex only sustained ""ONE"" broken tooth!!! He fought Charles exactly 3 months later, so what's the big deal? Folks break their teeth all the time skateboarding or slippin-n-fallin on the ice.
Identity bias.
Soft spoken Lennox Lewis at his best was the total package. When he fought seriously he was pretty much untouchable. The last undisputed Super Heavyweight champion emerged as cream of the crop against some of the biggest punchers in Heavyweight history.
Lewis avenged his only two defeats by knockout. He didn't make excuses for his only two losses, he said, "It's Heavyweights, you can get caught, but i won the rematches in style," and "Show me a Heavyweight Champion without a loss and i'll show you a fighter that fought a lot of nobodies."
Lewis haters always say, "but he got knocked out twice ha-ha." Well i say, "Mike Tyson got knocked out FIVE times ha-ha, and Ali lost his best 30 years of retirement from having his faculties traumatized for an entire decade. Watching his head used as catchers mitt 100,000 times was ha-ha. IT'S NOT HOW YOU START, IT'S HOW YOU FINISH."
57 year old Lennox is the GOAT. To hear him talk so clearly and eloquently after going up against 18 Heavyweight Champions is remarkable.
The 18 HW Champions Lewis faced: Vitali Klitschko, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Shannon Briggs, Frank Bruno, Tony Tucker, Hasim Rahman, Oliver McCall, Mike Weaver, Henry Akinwande, Tommy Morrison and Ray Mercer were later recognized as WBO champions, British HW champion Gary Mason, European HW champion Jean Chanet, Commonwealth HW champion Derek Williams, Canada HW champion Razor Ruddock, IBF/WBF HW champion Michael Grant, and WBC International HW champion David Tua...*[[ technically not all were 'World' champions but champions nonetheless ]]. Other notable mentions; Olympic HW Silver medalist Riddick Bowe, Olympic HW Gold medalist Tyrell Briggs, Andrew Golota, Zeljko Mavrovic, Frans Botha and Phil Jackson.
Name another Super Heavyweight with a better resume? Only person i can think of is Wladimir Klitschko.
How many "prime" 200+lb HW Champions
did 184 pound dwarfism-arms fight? ""ZERO""!!!!
A small penguin actually has a longer wingspan than Rocky's 67" inch flyweight reach. Imagine penguin arms tryin to fight top-notch Super Heavyweights with 80" to 85" albatross wingspans and 40 to 90 pound weight advantages? 184 pounds give me a break,, what a Joke!
We all need Hero's to follow & look up to,& strive to be!🥰🤩✨🌌🌠🌠🌠 great people are gifts 🎁🎂🎁 FROM God!✨✨✨✨🎁Says, (** DJ.DEB.USA 5/19/2023
That is a GREAT Comment YOU typed ! Fist-filled with a Non-fiction approach ! Like Jack Webb used to say: Just the FACTS ! ❤❤❤
Mike Tyson was gifted with type II fast-twitch muscle fibers. He came out the gate sprinting like 220 pound Quarter 🐎 Horse, while little white 185 pound Marciano came out the gate shuffling forward like Little 🐢Turtle. 1980's 20yr old phenom Mike easily KO's Rocky 10 outta 10 times!
Little white 184 lb Marciano had a featherweight arm reach of 67" inches. Imagine penguin🐧arms Rocky trying to fight authentic Super Heavyweights with 50 to 80+ pound weight advantages and 80" to 85" arm reaches? What an embarrassment Rocky would have been today.
@blackDavidnMargotinDesMoines damn bruh did rocky knock u out n take ya girl?? U going hard on dude. 😅
Rocky was a great fighter.However,I don’t think he was overrated.He and the heavyweights during & frankly, heavyweights before the Rock’s time,were small heavyweights.All one can do is fight the fighters of his time.I don’t think he would’ve gone undefeated if he fought at anytime that Jack Johnson was champion,up until the time he was champion because of the rules with the neutral corner.I think he would’ve been beaten by Jack Johnson & Jack Dempsey but would’ve also beaten them if they fought multiple times because he adjusted damn well in fights in which he had rematches in & left no doubt that he was thee man! I think an early Joe Louis would’ve gotten him but it’s hard to definitively say.Everyone else,after Joe Louis up until Rocky’s reign,whether in their prime or not,i think they would’ve gotten knocked out because his pressing style & how hard he hit was too overwhelming! He would’ve easily beaten Floyd Patterson & Johansson because they were also small with glass chins.From Sonny Liston on up,he would’ve had problems because of their size & and the boxing styles had changed,thanks to Ali..with a few exceptions…I think he would’ve beaten guys that may have been big,could punch but lacked stamina or the ability to gain a second wind,like Norton,Jimmy Ellis,Ernie Shavers,Leon Spinks,Tommy Morrison,Quarry,Terell,Cleveland Williams,Wilder,Frazier because he was a slow starter.He couldn’t be a slow starter with Rocky & rebound in my opinion…& a few others.The man could definitely fight! No doubt about it!
RIP Robert Loggia
1950s were about the Light heavyweights "Not" the Heavyweights. Light heavyweights Moore, Charles, Maxim, Bivins, Johnson, Pastrano, Marshall, Matthews, Haft, Lowry, Applegate, Jefferson etc, fought back and forth amongst themselves 40+times.
Besides Light heavyweights Charles and Moore, another boxer that caused havoc for little Marciano was Cruiserweight Walcott who lost to Light heavyweight's Charles 'twice',, Fox 'twice',, Maxim,, Brothers,, Taylor,, AND "middleweights" Mays,, Palmer,, Ketchell.
Overall Walcott Lost (20) times and was KOd (6) times. Walcott's most notable victories include wins over Light heavy Charles, Light heavy Maxim, and Light heavy Johnson. Charles Lost (25) times and was KOd (7) times. Maxim Lost (29) times and was KO'd (1) time. Johnson Lost (11) times and was KO'd (5) times.
Journeyman Joe lost throughout his entire career, beginning, middle, end. He fought for the title 6 times and lost 5 times. Walcott is "Not" an ATG. At best he is C-level Journeyman. In summary Marciano's 3 best opponents were two Light heavyweights and one Cruiserweight. To make matters worse Moore was factually 41yrs old and Walcott was 39 when he intentionally took a dive for his last huge paycheck. *Marciano even fought two "middleweights" Eddie Ross and Harry Bilazarian.
Hall of Fame Heavyweight Champion Sonny Liston was a muscular 6′2″ powerhouse weighing 220 lbs of pure brick. He had iron in either fist and could put an opponent on the mat quickly with either. Sonny was the most ducked fighter of all time. Even Joe Frazier’s team refused to fight him. Liston in his prime was the real deal. He was a great fighter.
Yes Bro 🙏 The Marfia isn't the Italian People. I've worked for Italian People here in Australia many years ago. And it didn't take long for me to see they were very generous of they were happy with your work effort.. Free Italian Beer make's me work harder ❤
Vitali Klitschko 6' 7½″ 250 lbs KOs 87% with 80" reach had 47 pro fights and only lost twice due to horrible cut and torn rotator cuff. He never hit the canvas and was never behind on judges scorecards after the 2nd round. Vitali had tremendous power, granite chin and great determination with PhD-intelligence. He would have been Huge factor in any decade.
You look like Rocky bro cool,,😎🥊💥 🇺🇲👍🙏
If 42 year old light heavyweight Moore and 38 year old cruiserweight Walcott could drop Marciano then the Tyson's, Foreman's, Klitschko's and Ibeabuchi's of the world woulda kilt him. How can a 185 pound man even be considered an ATG Super Heavyweight when he was barely cruiserweight?
Identity bias.
@@MORCOPOLO0817 cannot handle Truth? he was simply too small to be effective at Heavyweight today. He'd be lucky to be ranked in today's light heavyweight division. LH Beterbiev would annihilate little Rocky 10 out of 10 times!!!
@@Bobby.D.1776 You have been watching too many Mobster movies thinking the Mob would have fixed things for Rocky. He was as real as it comes not help from anyone. You obviously know nothing about him.
I quite enjoyed the 100 Greatest Heavyweight series, and it got me thinking about how nice a boost *"Time"* tends to give to a fighters ranking.
1962:
In December 1962, a Ring magazine poll of 40
boxing experts had Jack Dempsey rated the
#1 Heavyweight of all-time, with Joe Louis
2nd, Jack Johnson 3rd and Marciano 7th.
1971:
In 1971, Nat Fleischer, boxing's most
famous historian and also editor and founder
of Ring magazine , named Marciano as the
all-time 10th greatest Heavyweight champion.
1998:
Despite the intervening years producing the likes of Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, Klitschko's et al.," in 1998, Ring magazine named Marciano as the 6th greatest Heavyweight champion ever.
2005:
We float around to 2005, and Marciano was
named the 5th greatest Heavyweight of all-time
by the International Boxing Research Organization.
2007:
In 2007, Marciano was named the 4th greatest Heavyweight of all-time by ESPN behind (in order) Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, and Rocky Marciano.
2023:
We skip to the modern day,
and somehow he's been
bumped up to 3rd.
Will he one day be
greater than Ali???
It's easy to see little Rocky's progression. The key is understanding *why?* Despite his perfect record against the weakest 'Heavyweight' division of all-time, Marciano was never close to being rated towards the top throughout the 60s and 70s. So why did he climb from *10th* in 71, *6th* in 98, to *4th* in 07??? Bcz the greatest boxing historian whoever lived and founder of The Ring Mr. Boxing himself Nat Fleischer died in 72. They all started passing away including Rocky in 69. That's when his fame really started to grow.
*After his death is when all the sympathy articles begin to appear. Then it just grew and grew to the point where he could walk on water and beat every Super Heavyweight champion with ease. Little Rocky was so awesome that even Don Turner said, "Marciano could KO both Klitschko brothers at the same time!"*
*Little Marciano was faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. The Italian infant of Krypton was Superman. He broke 1,247 bones, knocked out 4,679 teeth, and ruptured 792 blood vessels. I also know for a fact that little Rocky is god , because when he walked the earth shook.*
Ring Magazine polled 40 boxing experts on who was the greatest Heavyweight of all-time in 1962. These are historians who were actually there when he reigned as champion and Marciano's highest ranking was 7th place. The overwhelming majority rated him lower like Nat Fleischer had him at # 10, Charley Rose and McCallum's survey of old-timers rated him at # 9. All these people were born in the late 1800s and passed away in the 1960s and 70s.
Little 184lb Marciano is regarded by many as the greatest Heavyweight ever, best of the best. The question is how does he stack up with the Mount Rushmore of Heavyweights?? I don't see how his status remotely moves up with the multitude of great Heavyweights that came after him. All the professionals, trainers, managers, experts and historians who actually saw Rocky Marciano fight during the 50s and 60s thoroughly examined his career yet they barely ranked him top-10 Heavyweight, of all-time. *I trust Nat's opinion before y'all's gibberish casual diatribe.*
Genius Nat Fleischer (1887-1972) was the founder, president, publisher and editor of The Ring, a monthly magazine devoted to boxing and professional wrestling. Fleischer is called Mr. Boxing, or in the cant of masters of ceremony, "Mr. Boxing, himself," an introduction uniting man and legend. Fleischer’s story in many ways is the story of boxing. His experience is unlike that of anyone else from boxing’s past and certainly no one will ever be able to make his claims in the future.
In 1958 Fleischer wrote, “I have been on intimate terms with every heavyweight champion since James J. Corbett. I have seen almost every heavyweight championship bout in the past half century, and most of those in other divisions that reach across a stretch of many exciting years.” Fleischer in fact saw every heavyweight champion from Jim Jeffries and Jack Johnson to Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier from ringside, most of those from the first row. Possibly no one else in history can make that claim. Fleischer’s unique perspective demands respect from those who are interested in the history of boxing.
Nat tended to just report the fights as he saw it from ringside and did not editorialize too much. Nat was well known for his ability to break down and describe the styles of fighters and the action that took place in the ring. Here are some descriptions of fighters there is film on so we can compare what Nat said of them to what we know from the films. We can then know that what he said about fighters whom we have little film on is also accurate.
Of Joe Louis he penned, in the April 1939 Ring, “He sails in, crashes his blows to the body and head, gives the opposition little chance to get set for a counter-attack and wards off blows with the cleverness of a Jack Johnson. Only Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey compare to Joe Louis of today in all around ability...No human body can take the punishment that Jolting Joe dishes out once he goes after his prey. That has been proved conclusively in his last few contests.” In the Mar. 1942 Ring, after Louis' destruction of the 6'6" 250 pound Buddy Baer, Nat Said that “Not even in the second fight with Max Schmeling did the Detroit Destroyer show as much as he did against Buddy. Joe had everything. He was magnificent. He was a whirlwind on attack, a master of defense, a terror with his devastating punches.”
In evaluating Rocky Marciano he wrote December 1955 Ring, “Those who believe that he lacks the necessary qualifications for gaining a niche in the fistic hall of fame as one of the greatest heavyweights of all time won’t argue that as a puncher, he takes his place alongside such greats as Jeffries, Louis and Dempsey. They limit his qualifications for greatness to the category of “hitting power”, strength and durability all of which Rocky possesses to a high degree but which are *insufficient to gain for him a place among the greats of the past.”* “Despite his crudeness, he can move about the ring at a pretty fast gate and can toss more punches than any heavyweight of recent years. But misses more frequently than any champion I’ve ever seen.” *“He has faced very few real punchers during his career.* The two best, Walcott and Moore- both thirty-eight at the time-had Rocky on the canvas. *Joe Louis is not included* since when he met Rocky, the Brown Bomber had long since lost his once devastating punch.”
Besides putting out the highly regarded Ring-Fleischer has published Nat Fleischer's Ring Record Book and Boxing Encyclopedia.The Ring Record Book is the most comprehensive of all annual reference sources on boxing. Mainly in the interests of boxing, Fleischer has made 37 trips to Europe and has gone around the world six times, furiously writing all the while. He has 20 passports. Discounting entertainers, Fleischer is the most widely known U.S. private citizen abroad. He is enshrined in the Helms Hall of Fame in Los Angeles. Fleischer has refereed and judged more than 1,000 fights. All told, Fleischer has published 57 books of history, biography and instruction on boxing. Fleischer has a 268,800-word "bibliography" of boxing. Counting his articles for The Ring and serials and pieces he dashes off in an hour or so for foreign publications, it has been estimated that Fleischer has written 40 million words in his lifetime.
It's no wonder D'Amato didn't want his Floyd Patterson to go anywhere near him. Patterson was a smart boxer with good movement and speedy-fast hands but Liston was a monster, and it showed when they finally got in the ring together.. But Patterson did obliterate light heavyweight Archie Moore like a hot spoon going through butter. Grandfather Archie effortlessly dropped little Rocky and battered his face into hamburger. What a joke Marciano was, all hype. Only 185 pounds with dwarfism-arms LOL 😂
You forget the part where Rocky flatlined him and left Moore slumped on the ropes. Had to get helped to his feet by three dudes.
@@jdamsel8212 Little Rocky was 31yrs of age. Moore was at least 42 if not older. You forgot that part. Put little Rocky at 42+yrs of age and little light heavyweight Moore at 31. You forgot that part.
@@jdamsel8212 Moore wasn't flat-lined. Moore did an interview in the ring immediately after the fight and he was perfectly fine. Grandfather Moore was simply exhausted bcz of his age.
@siddiqgamesyt3354 It's better than treating little white Rocky as if he were god himself. Correct?
*Joe Louis' 8 fight winning streak which helped him become the #1 ranked contender before he faced 184 lb tiny cruiser Marciano. Below is the 6 opponents ring-worn and washed (as evidenced by scoring only 2 KO's in his last 12 fights) Joe beat:*
*1.* 196 lb Cesar Brian had an abysmal 36% KO's. *Brian's career record of 49 wins 11 losses looks okay until ya see 25 of his wins came against his fellow Argentinians.*
*2.* 191 lb Freddie Beshore had an abysmal 24% KO's. His career record was 28 wins 10 losses. *5' 9" Beshore was on a 4 fight losing streak before he faced Joe. Why would Joe even consider fighting someone who had just lost 4 fights? We all know why!*
*3.* 187 lb Omelio Agramonte. *Oh wow, oh my, i watched their entire fight and Joe looked terrible, absolutely terrible. What was Joe thinking? He should have stayed retired. Omelio looked as if he only weighed 165 lbs.*
*4.* 194 lb Andy Walker had an abysmal 17% KO's. His career record was 18 wins 20 losses. *It's clear as day what's going on here.*
*5.* 188 lb Omelio Agramonte -- *Why Twice? We all know why!*
*6.* 190 lb Lee Savold. Even the announcer said, *"Joe Louis reflexes are but a memory."* These two should have been retired. *They just pushed Louis through towards Marciano so everyone could fill their pockets with $$$.* Savold had a career 45 losses and was KO'd 12 times.
*7.* 197 lb Cesar Brian -- *Why Twice? We all know why!*
*8.* Jimmy Bivins weighed 151 vs. Morgan who weighed 146 in 1940. 5' 8.8" (1.75 m) 180 lb light heavyweight Bivins (vs. Louis) had an abysmal 27% KO's. *Yes Bivins was Hall of Famer. But he was a Hall of Famer @ light heavyweight, not Heavyweight. This is the "Heavyweight" division we're talking about right?*
*Talk about bum-of-the-month-club WOW. It was obviously a predetermined carefully hand-picked set-up against featherfisted opposition.*
*Boxing-elites, Italian-mafioso, and the IRS really needed Joe to be ranked #1 inorder to get their Louis vs. Marciano $$-SHOW-$$. The only loyalty the Italian-mob had was to $$$. Hey, they took 50% of Marciano's earnings and all ticket sales, all in all $2 Million. $2 Million in 1955 is equivalent to $21 Million today.*
Stupendo documentario ❤
The greatest heavy weight ever Clay might of thought he was the greatest but he would never of lived with Rocky who retired undefeated that is the class of a World Champion Clay never reached that class & no other world heavy weight Champion did
either.
Cheers Tippo. GB.
Sonny had an-albatross 84 inch reach. Rocky had a-stubby 67 inch reach. A 17 inch reach advantage is a tall order to overcome, but when the man with the reach advantage is the most fearsome puncher in history it’s insurmountable. Marciano’s style was tailor made for Liston. Rocky would get knocked into tomorrow before he could get close enough to land any damaging shots of his own. Liston’s power and reach would have been too much for the plodding face first style of Marciano.
It's interesting how people who experienced watching him in real time don't hold him in the same high regard as folks later on in spite the multitude of great fighters who came on the scene after he Quit (Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Klitschko's, Fury, etc.). There's a lot of mythology with Marciano and a lot of selective memory about his career. He was brilliantly managed to preserve his undefeated record. But the reality is heart and determination can only get you so far when you're sorely lacking in the physical tools the other greats have. Americans love to glamorize the underdog who gets it done in spite of their limitation, just look at the success of Stallone and his Rocky movie franchise, the movie Rudy, Hoosiers, etc. It is also interesting how the same people who want to consider Rocky the greatest Heavyweight because he was undefeated are reluctant to consider Mayweather the greatest pound for pound. It's just flat lazy to look at 49-0 and conclude that he must be the best ever. Based on that, then you MUST consider Mayweather the greatest pound for pound fighter of all-time since he's 50-0, right?
Maybe little white Rocky could have beaten that circus clown Jess Willard who was paraded around for 4 years without a single fight. Or maybe he could have even beat that other circus clown Primo Carnera who was daily alcoholic (like Andre the Giant) and 100% mafioso controlled. The ‘ambling alp’ was an awful boxer with gigantism or acromegaly (like Andre the Giant). He was promoted as a monster because of his size, but he was really clumsy and couldn`t punch with his full weight, he was completely exposed by Joe Louis who easily battered Primo into submission.
@@black_David_Frost295okay racist black boy……Tom Brady, Larry bird,babe Ruth, rocky Marciano……goats.
Listen Marciano was a wrecking machine.He beat the best of the era and Charles,Walcott and Louis were very very good fighters.
@@carlrballbro these first two comments made me lose braincells they're so stupid lol stupidly really is a disease
Identity bias.
6' 4" 270 lb UFC Heavyweight Champion Francis Ngannou with 83" reach created the hardest punch ever measured. Ngannou recorded a punch of 129,161 units on a PowerKube which produced 93hp. The strongest men all around the World have tried to break his record that's stood since 2018.
Riddick Bowe 6' 5" 240 lbs KOs 73% with 81" reach had a career 43 wins 1 loss. At his peak he was an excellent fundamental boxer, had a great chin, power in both hands, could fight inside or out, and would have been a difficult test for any fighter who ever lived. Trainer Eddie Futch said, "Riddick had more untapped potential than any fighter he had ever known." Bowe was the undisputed Heavyweight Champ in 92 and won the Super Heavyweight silver medal @ the 88 Summer Olympics. Riddick is an ATG Hall of Famer. *Prime 'Big Daddy' Bowe manhandles tiny Rocky as if he were his Daddy!!!*
And don't forget big bad bowe got knocked out in the first round in the Olympics by Lennox lewis
MARCIANO WAS A GLADIATOR. FIGHTING THE GREAT WALCOTT FOR THE TITLE TELLS ALL
WISH THEY MADE A MOVIE ABOUT ROCKY MARCIANO TODAY ...ABOUT HIS CHILDHOOD AND LATER YEARS.
Larry Holmes made 20 defenses of the heavyweight title over a seven year reign and probably should have retired 48-0. Larry is considered to have the best jab in history. He could use it as an offensive weapon to make openings for his slashing right hand. Holmes possessed a rock-hard chin, huge heart and excellent stamina.