What usually works for me is find the root note then attempt to sing or hum the intervals as arpeggios while playing them as well. This works most of the time for more open voicings and adds a bit of ear training as well. Then I run the voicings around the circle of fourths/fifths to make it stick. I do still struggle with rootless and lower register voicings though. Thanks for the tips!
For me its always root, and top voice, but the most important thing is hearing the function, and quality of the chord. Context and the limitation of possibilities are key.
I learned a technique from Keyboard Player magazine back in the 80's which has served me very well. You first make an educated guess based on the obvious notes that you can hear (obviously you're going to have to be sure of the bass note whether it be a solo piano piece or an ensemble piece with a bassist), and your knowledge (hopefully of the basic chord type). Then, to see whether a particular note is in the voicing, you play that note along the with the voicing on the recording many times, before playing the voicing without playing that note. If the note is in there your ear will have been drawn to it and you should be able to tell if it's present. This way you can put together the exact voicing. The tricky thing is that pianists may weight the voices in such a way that certain notes aren't easily heard, so this really helps with that. Two other things that are worth mentioning are a) sometimes it's helpful to pick out a note in the previous chord that you can hear easily (I'm talking about the inner voices) and then use that to see whether that note moves to the note you suspect might be there by listening to the first chord moving to the second and b) sometimes overtones can make you think a note is there but it isn't.
For the past week or so, I've been practicing hearing the nuts and bolts of voicings by playing an arbitrary 3 or 4 note voicing and trying to mentally isolate each note. That way, I'm hearing one note at a time and ignoring all the others. It's a cool effect once you get it, because it really is like hearing somebody play the notes one at time. However, it takes a couple minutes and some focus for sure. One tip is to play the entire voicing and shortly after, release all the notes besides the one you're trying to hear. This will make that note pop out. Do it will all the notes and then try ignoring the other notes one at a time.
Due to a seris of unfortunate events involving money I had to leave performance school, I'm very happy and pleased to be able to pick up where I left off in these lessons you've been posting. Peace and love.
This is great! I feel like we don’t talk a lot about transcribing chords. But yeah, finding the top and bottom note first I think is the idea, and if you know if it’s a major, minor or whatever chord then you fill in the blanks I guess. Starting with just left hand voicings helps a lot and it’s a great training before transcribing two-hand voicings
you can find any shape mostly from 4th on, until 10th in left hand. On right hand even more. It is then about hearing techniques or having music theoretical hypothesis to start with, not hand shapes. It is about common chord types and voicings as well.
Well heck this is helping! I've just started transposing some of Tigran H latest and there is so much crunch and so low on keyboard etc it was throwing me. It's making it simpler. Thanks.
Finally, there’s only one other teacher on RUclips that teaches hand grid positions. I use and teach it to my students too! I think his name is new jazz something like that!
@@subzero9724 You know the sad thing about RUclips is that you could be talking to someone who has more musical experiences or just more life experiences in general. And not know it.. And a person who’s been around the block a few times could perhaps even open up your eyes to new things and shed light 💡 on a subject and help you reach that next level! 🎹 But you have to have an open mind, and be willing to try something different! The great Oscar Peterson used Hannon and a few other technique building exercises and there’s no denying that he was an incredible musician with a virtuoso technique. Now that’s not to say that all things are created equal and that you’ll get the same mileage out of Hannon than another person who has a different musical aptitude or background or whatever. But it’s something that doesn’t get enough attention. Listen, I’ll keep it real, I’m 55 yrs old and I been playing around 45 years, I did Hannon and Czerny years ago and I kinda can relate to what you said, in that you can never divorce technique from musicality or the music will lack soul. HOWEVER.. There is a point to be made about being able to accurately reproduce the music in your head and translate it to your finger’s. Because it won’t matter how many ideas and language you have in your head if you can’t reproduce it due to not having enough technical facility to transmit it to the Keyboard.. And after learning hundreds of tunes, playing countless gigs and teaching dozens of students I started to notice certain patterns in musicians. And so now we have ventured into the realm of muscle memory, Hand positions(shapes and GRIDS) digital finger dexterity and having a base of musical knowledge that can be retrieved automatically in EVERY key. For example the physical mechanism needed to play in the key of C Maj is functionally similar to playing in the key G Maj. Likewise the finger mechanisms needed to play fluently in the key of D Maj similar to playing in the key of A Maj, Ditto for the parallel minor keys: Cmaj-Amin, Gmaj-Emin, so forth and so on. The sooner you realize that music is all about patterns and associations, hand positions 🤚 ✋ 🖐 coupled with the right type of ear training, these three things taken together is extremely powerful. But I’m in the process of writing a book that is going to radically change how music is taught. For example if I taught you a jazz standard say Autumn Leaves in Bb maj(Gmin) I would teach you how to play it in ANY key by first teaching you the ear training, muscle memory; hand grid positions and Roman Numerals NECESSARY to transpose it fluently through ALL keys.. After a while learning songs in this manner you would eventually be able to hear songs and after a couples time’s listening to it be able to play all the tunes with a similar structure ALMOST INSTANTLY. If you become comfortable doing this as a drill your technique will grow by leaps and bounds as you are not hung up on trying to maneuver around the piano and therefore your mind is freed up to just play, improvise, write, compose and produce big results in an organized efficient manner. If I had known all this when I first started then I would have progressed MUCH faster than I did. For a quick example go listen to C-Dubs muscle memory Exercises in all keys, it’s really mind blowing. You can thank me later! 😁 Good night and if you have any questions feel free to ask..
@@km-vl4fy The book will probably be ready somewhere around, toward the end of the year because me and my drummer had to take a little Hiatus for a bit because of Covid because I had a few family members to pass away from complications of this dreadful disease.. And it kind of got me down, (I lost five family members to covid this year alone ALREADY!!) Even a couple that I warned but they wouldn’t listen..😞 but life happens and you must go on.. Listen, don’t be discouraged you will be learning complete songs and all the info(theory and ear training) needed to transpose these songs into ANY key you like! The method utilizes common chord progressions like: 2-5-1, 6-2-5-1, 7-3-6, cool chord voicings and a neat little trick that will have you playing rootless voicings ALMOST instantly!! We dissect common jazz tunes and discuss how understanding song structures saves times because like I said these patterns occur over and over again in other jazz tunes. I only spend my time teaching people who have positive attitudes. I will be Frank here, after doing something for 45 years I think I would have learned how to AVOID pitfalls and roadblock’s. Don’t listen to anyone being negative about something that they haven’t experienced or don’t have knowledge of. I pretty sure you know why I’m writing this. Smdh.. 🤔 Listen, I don’t claim to be the best jazz pianist that ever lived but yes I can play very well and I’m proud of my accomplishments because to be honest I grew up around some very competitive musicians who didn’t want to share the information with other people and so like I said if I can help someone learn these things faster and in a more profound way then that makes me happy. Once you see the course and work through a few songs you’ll see what I’m talking about. This course covers Jazz, R&B, Neo Soul and some gospel etc. of course I can’t cover all genres. But the information contained in it is applicable across the board. I’m getting my website overhauled to include the new materials. Whereas formerly it was just me and my band, now it will include excerpts from my book. I cover lots of other info of course(it’s NOT a small book) but it’s proprietary information and I can’t give it all away because someone else might steal my ideas.. I believe I have stumbled on the easiest way to learn music!! In fact if you are not happy with your progress I will refund you your money!!!! Now right now so far I’m only making this available as a digital download. I might do some hardbacks later on depending on how the digital downloads go. I also discuss my ideas on transcribing, why you should do it yourself instead of copying someone else’s(unless it to cross check your own work of course).I have perfect pitch and I will describe in the book how I developed it and why I think relative pitch is more important but ALSO how you can use it to find root movements WITHOUT an instrument. Watch me, In real time learn songs from scratch and how I can hear a song and tell you the key and the chord progressions involved all using just your ear alone👂 However, all I can say is that it’s revolutionary!!
I usually like to listen to where the tension notes are, like the dissonances. Like notes that are a minor 2nd apart have gotten very easy for me, followed by tritones, then major 2nds. This is only after I've identified the lowest note, and the highest note
A lot of books break down types of voicing but some also show that the way you find more possibilities is by combining them. Jason Lyon's Compendium of Jazz Voicings basically uses your approach. He calls the piano a big band under your fingers.
My method is: 1. Bass Note 2. Top Note 3. Theoretical Function (3rd and 7th) 4. Singing possible / likely tensions and checking if they are there. Ex. 9 or 13 in Ionian. I find it’s much easier to hear if a note is being played if you can sing it first.
There are so many apps in the Play Store there are games like ear training games inside of apps that teach you how to play an instrument Apple Store also and there are so many RUclips videos about this very subject that you just boiled down in one video good job
For me its always the top and bottom note then filling in whats in the middle.. the more ear training you do the easier it becomes i feel.. like knowing that you change 2 notes to go from a minor to a dominant .. knowing where that tension is.. knowing your 6th chords as well ✨🙏🏾
Do you have an album out or something? I love the way you play and your musical preferences in regards to voicing choice and types of jazz. Keep up the great work, I feel like lessons like this aren’t very easy to come by when you leave this channel.
I'm real surprised. I thought id the melody notes first, its scale second, then apply the circle of 5ths to predict possible chords. Still, some of my favorite artists like Stevie W. switch keys for flavor. Who knows where to go?
I have a question - first of all, thanks for making this! I found it on a search for this exact subject. I am a guitarist and experienced transcriber but I don't have a lot of experience transcribing acoustic piano voicings, and one thing that often stumps me is overtones....I suppose trying to transcribe with an acoustic piano in front of me might help, but say if there's a big low C played in a held out chord, then my ears might hear a higher C and a higher G and I have trouble parsing out whether this is being played or I'm just hearing the overtones. When transcribing guitar voicings I don't have this problem to the same extent because I'm more so aware of the physical limitations of the instrument, + more aware of how overtones will sound out in different contexts, just because it's my instrument. Piano is so much less limited, Bill Evans might be playing a 10 note chord or a 6 note chord ....hope you get what I'm driving at. Any tips on distinguishing overtones/harmonics from 'played' tones?
Do you know of any good recordings to get into transcribing voicings? Is the best way to do it to keep transcribing regular single-line solos and get really good at that first?
Sometimes if I know the exact voicing of a chord before the chord I’m trying to transcribe, I’ll try to hone my ears to hearing just a specific voice and follow that voice through
wonder if jazz pianists improvised voicings on the fly. I am thinking of improvised harmony in general. It's often about note-by-note solo improvisations but more rarely about comping
Play like Jimmy Swaggart. Play with four other pianists and keyboard players who know all the adds, voicings, and extensions. Then work that important note with one finger while the band fills in the rest.
@@Ricocase There's a few out there, been using anthemscore for hard parts with decent success, tried only on piano pieces not sure it works on stuff with distortion
Pure VooDoo. Gimmee MIDI, or AutoTune, audio to midi, A10 is a warthog, Find an Italian who knows Sol-Feg-io.I trained them (my ears) to always stay on the side of my head. Stop saying honestly then playing beautiful music. Then you say "in the other hand;' OK I give up.
My method is: 1. Bass Note 2. Top Note 3. Theoretical Function (3rd and 7th) 4. Singing possible / likely tensions and checking if they are there. Ex. 9 or 13 in Ionian. I find it’s much easier to hear if a note is being played if you can sing it first.
Almost feels like highway robbery getting lessons like this for free. Amazing as usual!
What usually works for me is find the root note then attempt to sing or hum the intervals as arpeggios while playing them as well. This works most of the time for more open voicings and adds a bit of ear training as well. Then I run the voicings around the circle of fourths/fifths to make it stick.
I do still struggle with rootless and lower register voicings though. Thanks for the tips!
Sure thing! Yeah I definitely think singing voicings is a really fantastic ear training exercise in general. I’m glad you wrote that suggestion.
Same here!
Thank you very much, confirm my thoughts. For me no problem with pop songs in general, 1940s to 1960s jazz have complex harmony.
For me its always root, and top voice, but the most important thing is hearing the function, and quality of the chord. Context and the limitation of possibilities are key.
You're very right men 👍
Hearing the function EUREKA
This!!
I learned a technique from Keyboard Player magazine back in the 80's which has served me very well. You first make an educated guess based on the obvious notes that you can hear (obviously you're going to have to be sure of the bass note whether it be a solo piano piece or an ensemble piece with a bassist), and your knowledge (hopefully of the basic chord type). Then, to see whether a particular note is in the voicing, you play that note along the with the voicing on the recording many times, before playing the voicing without playing that note. If the note is in there your ear will have been drawn to it and you should be able to tell if it's present. This way you can put together the exact voicing. The tricky thing is that pianists may weight the voices in such a way that certain notes aren't easily heard, so this really helps with that. Two other things that are worth mentioning are a) sometimes it's helpful to pick out a note in the previous chord that you can hear easily (I'm talking about the inner voices) and then use that to see whether that note moves to the note you suspect might be there by listening to the first chord moving to the second and b) sometimes overtones can make you think a note is there but it isn't.
Your lessons are always so great, and they’re free too! One of the best channels on youtube.
Thanks really appreciate that!
Not many videos on this subject and you explained it very concisely & succinctly- bookmarked for future reference!
Thanks glad it helped!
For the past week or so, I've been practicing hearing the nuts and bolts of voicings by playing an arbitrary 3 or 4 note voicing and trying to mentally isolate each note. That way, I'm hearing one note at a time and ignoring all the others. It's a cool effect once you get it, because it really is like hearing somebody play the notes one at time. However, it takes a couple minutes and some focus for sure. One tip is to play the entire voicing and shortly after, release all the notes besides the one you're trying to hear. This will make that note pop out. Do it will all the notes and then try ignoring the other notes one at a time.
I do this too
Due to a seris of unfortunate events involving money I had to leave performance school, I'm very happy and pleased to be able to pick up where I left off in these lessons you've been posting. Peace and love.
your teachings change me completly
Really glad to hear they're helpful, Delious. Appreciate your comment!
More videos like that can help US
Go forward
Well done
Thanks I'm glad to hear that
This is great! I feel like we don’t talk a lot about transcribing chords. But yeah, finding the top and bottom note first I think is the idea, and if you know if it’s a major, minor or whatever chord then you fill in the blanks I guess. Starting with just left hand voicings helps a lot and it’s a great training before transcribing two-hand voicings
you can find any shape mostly from 4th on, until 10th in left hand. On right hand even more. It is then about hearing techniques or having music theoretical hypothesis to start with, not hand shapes. It is about common chord types and voicings as well.
Well heck this is helping! I've just started transposing some of Tigran H latest and there is so much crunch and so low on keyboard etc it was throwing me. It's making it simpler. Thanks.
Finally, there’s only one other teacher on RUclips that teaches hand grid positions. I use and teach it to my students too! I think his name is new jazz something like that!
@@subzero9724 You know the sad thing about RUclips is that you could be talking to someone who has more musical experiences or just more life experiences in general. And not know it..
And a person who’s been around the block a few times could perhaps even open up your eyes to new things and shed light 💡 on a subject and help you reach that next level! 🎹
But you have to have an open mind, and be willing to try something different!
The great Oscar Peterson used Hannon and a few other technique building exercises and there’s no denying that he was an incredible musician with a virtuoso technique. Now that’s not to say that all things are created equal and that you’ll get the same mileage out of Hannon than another person who has a different musical aptitude or background or whatever. But it’s something that doesn’t get enough attention.
Listen, I’ll keep it real, I’m 55 yrs old and I been playing around 45 years, I did Hannon and Czerny years ago and I kinda can relate to what you said, in that you can never divorce technique from musicality or the music will lack soul.
HOWEVER.. There is a point to be made about being able to accurately reproduce the music in your head and translate it to your finger’s. Because it won’t matter how many ideas and language you have in your head if you can’t reproduce it due to not having enough technical facility to transmit it to the Keyboard.. And after learning hundreds of tunes, playing countless gigs and teaching dozens of students I started to notice certain patterns in musicians. And so now we have ventured into the realm of muscle memory, Hand positions(shapes and GRIDS) digital finger dexterity and having a base of musical knowledge that can be retrieved automatically in EVERY key.
For example the physical mechanism needed to play in the key of C Maj is functionally similar to playing in the key G Maj. Likewise the finger mechanisms needed to play fluently in the key of D Maj similar to playing in the key of A Maj, Ditto for the parallel minor keys: Cmaj-Amin, Gmaj-Emin, so forth and so on. The sooner you realize that music is all about patterns and associations, hand positions 🤚 ✋ 🖐 coupled with the right type of ear training, these three things taken together is extremely powerful. But I’m in the process of writing a book that is going to radically change how music is taught. For example if I taught you a jazz standard say Autumn Leaves in Bb maj(Gmin) I would teach you how to play it in ANY key by first teaching you the ear training, muscle memory; hand grid positions and Roman Numerals NECESSARY to transpose it fluently through ALL keys.. After a while learning songs in this manner you would eventually be able to hear songs and after a couples time’s listening to it be able to play all the tunes with a similar structure ALMOST INSTANTLY.
If you become comfortable doing this as a drill your technique will grow by leaps and bounds as you are not hung up on trying to maneuver around the piano and therefore your mind is freed up to just play, improvise, write, compose and produce big results in an organized efficient manner. If I had known all this when I first started then I would have progressed MUCH faster than I did.
For a quick example go listen to C-Dubs muscle memory Exercises in all keys, it’s really mind blowing. You can thank me later! 😁
Good night and if you have any questions feel free to ask..
@@mrquick6775 that sounds interesting, the c dubs exercises are ace. how can one find your book once it's finished?
@@km-vl4fy Give me your email address and soon as it’s ready I’ll shoot you a notice!
@@km-vl4fy The book will probably be ready somewhere around, toward the end of the year because me and my drummer had to take a little Hiatus for a bit because of Covid because I had a few family members to pass away from complications of this dreadful disease.. And it kind of got me down, (I lost five family members to covid this year alone ALREADY!!) Even a couple that I warned but they wouldn’t listen..😞 but life happens and you must go on..
Listen, don’t be discouraged you will be learning complete songs and all the info(theory and ear training) needed to transpose these songs into ANY key you like! The method utilizes common chord progressions like: 2-5-1, 6-2-5-1, 7-3-6, cool chord voicings and a neat little trick that will have you playing rootless voicings ALMOST instantly!! We dissect common jazz tunes and discuss how understanding song structures saves times because like I said these patterns occur over and over again in other jazz tunes.
I only spend my time teaching people who have positive attitudes. I will be Frank here, after doing something for 45 years I think I would have learned how to AVOID pitfalls and roadblock’s. Don’t listen to anyone being negative about something that they haven’t experienced or don’t have knowledge of. I pretty sure you know why I’m writing this.
Smdh.. 🤔
Listen, I don’t claim to be the best jazz pianist that ever lived but yes I can play very well and I’m proud of my accomplishments because to be honest I grew up around some very competitive musicians who didn’t want to share the information with other people and so like I said if I can help someone learn these things faster and in a more profound way then that makes me happy. Once you see the course and work through a few songs you’ll see what I’m talking about.
This course covers Jazz, R&B, Neo Soul and some gospel etc. of course I can’t cover all genres. But the information contained in it is applicable across the board.
I’m getting my website overhauled to include the new materials. Whereas formerly it was just me and my band, now it will include excerpts from my book. I cover lots of other info of course(it’s NOT a small book) but it’s proprietary information and I can’t give it all away because someone else might steal my ideas.. I believe I have stumbled on the easiest way to learn music!! In fact if you are not happy with your progress I will refund you your money!!!! Now right now so far I’m only making this available as a digital download. I might do some hardbacks later on depending on how the digital downloads go.
I also discuss my ideas on transcribing, why you should do it yourself instead of copying someone else’s(unless it to cross check your own work of course).I have perfect pitch and I will describe in the book how I developed it and why I think relative pitch is more important but ALSO how you can use it to find root movements WITHOUT an instrument. Watch me, In real time learn songs from scratch and how I can hear a song and tell you the key and the chord progressions involved all using just your ear alone👂
However, all I can say is that it’s revolutionary!!
I usually like to listen to where the tension notes are, like the dissonances. Like notes that are a minor 2nd apart have gotten very easy for me, followed by tritones, then major 2nds. This is only after I've identified the lowest note, and the highest note
Fr biggest help that I’ve used as well, tbh hearing 4ths and fifths on top of those dissonances down low is the hardest
A lot of books break down types of voicing but some also show that the way you find more possibilities is by combining them.
Jason Lyon's Compendium of Jazz Voicings basically uses your approach. He calls the piano a big band under your fingers.
My method is:
1. Bass Note
2. Top Note
3. Theoretical Function (3rd and 7th)
4. Singing possible / likely tensions and checking if they are there. Ex. 9 or 13 in Ionian.
I find it’s much easier to hear if a note is being played if you can sing it first.
Great job !
Very interesting & very useful info Noah. Thank you
You’re the best
Thanks, Ricardo!
There are so many apps in the Play Store there are games like ear training games inside of apps that teach you how to play an instrument Apple Store also and there are so many RUclips videos about this very subject that you just boiled down in one video good job
Thanks Jacob I was doing my best to make it easy and as little time as possible for you all!
For me its always the top and bottom note then filling in whats in the middle.. the more ear training you do the easier it becomes i feel.. like knowing that you change 2 notes to go from a minor to a dominant .. knowing where that tension is.. knowing your 6th chords as well ✨🙏🏾
Do you have an album out or something? I love the way you play and your musical preferences in regards to voicing choice and types of jazz. Keep up the great work, I feel like lessons like this aren’t very easy to come by when you leave this channel.
Love it!
Superb!!
I find I try to mentally arpeggiate what I'm hearing. Definitely bottom and top note right off the bat though, as you suggest.
Thank you I feel less stupid. I always play basslines and melodies by ear but I struggled with chords
I'm real surprised. I thought id the melody notes first, its scale second, then apply the circle of 5ths to predict possible chords. Still, some of my favorite artists like Stevie W. switch keys for flavor. Who knows where to go?
I have a question - first of all, thanks for making this! I found it on a search for this exact subject. I am a guitarist and experienced transcriber but I don't have a lot of experience transcribing acoustic piano voicings, and one thing that often stumps me is overtones....I suppose trying to transcribe with an acoustic piano in front of me might help, but say if there's a big low C played in a held out chord, then my ears might hear a higher C and a higher G and I have trouble parsing out whether this is being played or I'm just hearing the overtones. When transcribing guitar voicings I don't have this problem to the same extent because I'm more so aware of the physical limitations of the instrument, + more aware of how overtones will sound out in different contexts, just because it's my instrument. Piano is so much less limited, Bill Evans might be playing a 10 note chord or a 6 note chord ....hope you get what I'm driving at. Any tips on distinguishing overtones/harmonics from 'played' tones?
Do you know of any good recordings to get into transcribing voicings? Is the best way to do it to keep transcribing regular single-line solos and get really good at that first?
Sometimes if I know the exact voicing of a chord before the chord I’m trying to transcribe, I’ll try to hone my ears to hearing just a specific voice and follow that voice through
Love you much
wonder if jazz pianists improvised voicings on the fly. I am thinking of improvised harmony in general. It's often about note-by-note solo improvisations but more rarely about comping
This video is going into my playlist that falls under ear training
Play like Jimmy Swaggart. Play with four other pianists and keyboard players who know all the adds, voicings, and extensions. Then work that important note with one finger while the band fills in the rest.
Hahahahahahahahahaha! 👏👏 👏👏👏👏👏👌 That made my day! Thanks
@@ThePianoMan1953 Glad you liked. Forgot to mention he plays a Bosendorfer, they play a Baldwin.
@@tzodearf2596 😀 Cut the man some slack, will ya! His eyes are just filled with tears!! I wonder if they know, "Cry Me a River"?
I use melodyne to check the actual voicings
noah with no glasses 👀
Or just cheat and use software hehe
That works? Which program?
@@Ricocase There's a few out there, been using anthemscore for hard parts with decent success, tried only on piano pieces not sure it works on stuff with distortion
Pure VooDoo. Gimmee MIDI, or AutoTune, audio to midi, A10 is a warthog, Find an Italian who knows Sol-Feg-io.I trained them (my ears) to always stay on the side of my head. Stop saying honestly then playing beautiful music. Then you say "in the other hand;' OK I give up.
Because you are not "straight "scribing 😁 what? it's 2022..
Ok i'll see my self out..
Seventhstring. The software is called transcribe. This is an increíble useful tool.
My method is:
1. Bass Note
2. Top Note
3. Theoretical Function (3rd and 7th)
4. Singing possible / likely tensions and checking if they are there. Ex. 9 or 13 in Ionian.
I find it’s much easier to hear if a note is being played if you can sing it first.