Agreed, the T is the worst letter. I did have a center line in the top half at one point in the design process, but because of the middle horizontal line, it looked weird either way, so I chose to just do it this way.
the industry standard practice for really homogeneous segments now is to make a hollow white plastic cavity with a diffuse foil glued to the front. the cavity in combination with the partial reflectance of the foil allows the light to spread evenly without the need for any resin filler.
A layer or two of clear filament works as an internal diffusor. Then you just need a little air gap from it to the actual front surface "output" diffusor (which is also a couple of layers of clear filament).
I love the Art Nouveau style you used for the segments! I never realized that most displays omit serifs but adding them in almost gives it a sort of 20th century theater or carnival vibe. I would love to see more
Really enjoy the segment design. Very unique and the serifs are such an excellent touch. It's like a perfect combination of illuminated manuscript and stained-glass window
@@drgenio2006Yes, LEDs are cheap enough to place several of them on one segment, reducing the brightness of each one but maintaining the overall brightness due to the quantity.
You could wire the data-in lines for your 'extra' LEDs in parallel (just take the data-out line from one to go to the next segment) if you wanted to argue with anyone that insists it's not a 'true' 20 segment display. Super fun project, thanks for posting!
Very cool project Ben! Love the shape that you landed on for the segments. Not sure I've ever seen serifs in a segmented display before and it's a really nice touch.
dude, this is amazing! if you want full diffuse light, you need 3 layers with space in between... 0,2mm wall, 0,2mm space, 0,2mm wall, 0,2mm spase, 0,2mm wall, than the led :)
The problem is with the spaces. You need infill to separate the spaces and that will show up as shadows, as he explained in the video. However, I think that it might not be such a bad thing, if the right infill is chosen. Would have to experiment.
@@SuperBoppy no infill needet :) i know that, because i had a hack of a time to figer out how to make my rgb-slotcover perfekt, there i needet an perfect diffusor layer. overhangs in his case will work out fine. but what he has done is freaking amazing! love it!
Awesome! I love that it even looks beautiful when it's not turned on 😮 I always put a neutral density filter in front of a segmented display to hide the segments, but in this case that's like putting blinds in front of a beautiful painting!
Hi Ben 👋Great video and great result! Last year, we needed to built 10 pretty large segmented displays on a limited budget for a client. We opted for lasercutting the segments out a sheet of multiplex, and laying 1 long RGB pixel strip on the inside edge of the segments. No soldering, no fuzz, just 1 long LED strip. Created some plastic inserts for the segments to diffuse the light, and finished with a final sheet of matte Plexiglas on top. Took about 1 hour to laser cut and assemble one (without 3D-printing diffusers). If something would ever break, just replace the single RGB strip, so we shipped them with a spare roll.
This is incredible, I loved the Gothic styling of the font. I've never seen a multisegment display that looked anything like that! Only thing I can say about the font is that the 'T' is hard to recognize without a lot of context. Maybe another vertical segment through the top section would make it and the 'W' easier to see?
Here is what I think. . . Shut up and take my money!!!! These are the most amazing displays I have ever seen. Reminds me of stained glass. Well done mate!!
for getting a more diffuse lighting, you could try changing the thickness of the clear plastic so that it is thicker when it is closer to the led and thinner the further it gets from the led
Pretty neat design! Also: once you've tried using a solder paste stencil + reflow for SMT soldering, it makes assembling boards by hand much easier (and easier/faster than THT soldering). PCBWay and JLC both offer stencils for about ~$6 extra -- just make sure to select the smallest usable sheet size + small buffer (eg. 300x400mm), otherwise shipping can get pretty pricey.
For those with single color printers this can be done by printing the face surface clear and inserting a filament change command to change it to the black part. The elements would be empty and the translucent parts printed separately and inserted.
Pausing to say that Fran Blanche made some really huge 7 segment displays. She needed them for something I think and couldn't find what she needed. IIRC they were about 8 inches tall. (20CM for metric folks) I just had a thought about the uneven lighting. You would print translucent white directly above the LED and clear around that. This would decrease the light in the bright spot.
Looks great, fantastic font, love all retro displays. For increased contrast I put window tint or ND filters over my 8 segment display to help it in bright conditions.
After some experiments I settled on using a single continuous layer of white PETG printed on a textured bed as the diffuser, with black PETG walls separating individual segments. With right density of LEDs in the back it gives a very even distribution of light with no darker spots and no light absorption by the extra plastic. Continuous sheet of the white plastic on front softens the boundaries between segments, what IMHO looks a bit better than crisp edges. Plus, there is no plastic waste on filament changes, and with manual filament swap such a design can be printed on any printer. I prefer SMD LEDs. With lower height, the display can be thinner than with with TH.
Wow, Ben, the end product is spectacular! My only criticism would be two additional elements in the middle to make letters "I", "i", "l" and number "1" with better proportional spacing. But otherwise, absolutely beautiful design and execution.
I haven't tested thoroughly but I did some tinkering with clear recently as well. I used 100% hilbert curve infill at .12 layers. Shining the LED across the layers (hopefully that makes sense?) resulted a nice diffusion with no hot spots. The catch is I had to roughly double the number of LEDs to get the same light spread
Hey, I did a lot of 7seg 3D printing with RGB LEDs. Here is what I learned: You want the inside of the segment to be WHITE - this gives WAY better light scattering than black, which eats away all your light. Either print black (to avoid light bleeding) and paint the inside white, or look for kexcelled3d K5 White Shade PETG which perfectly shades light. Some matte white filaments might also work. Regular white bleeds too much light. Also, use WHITE soldermask on the PCB and consider leaving exposed HASL (copper) spots around the LED as light reflectors. For the front face a thin white layer as you did it is actually not a bad idea and I like the white front face of the display. I actually use an acrylic sheet with a thin white decor foil stuck on as a front face. This looks really nice as you can't even see the outline of unlit segments anymore. (I added a video to my profile)
Thank you for the suggestions! All of those sound really interesting. I should have thought of doing the inner segment walls in white PETG. And the white solder mask would have been an easy change to make.
Way back in grade school I was doodling on graph paper and came up with a segmented display design that could display all the digits, and A through Z both in caps and lower case, that only needs 17 segments. Basically 3x2 boxes with segments around each box, where a 7-segment display uses 2x1 boxes.
Started messing with Leds and am currently making a board for the first time. Your design theme would look good as a programable stained glass effect panel. Used not just for fonts.
I love this stuff! It was really cool that you started with 7 before getting into the more complicated version. I'll be building this with my 10 year old son. Thanks! Looking forward to future efforts. Any nixie tube thoughts? I looked at some of your other videos and have project ideas. Subscribed!
I made my own DSKY from scratch and for the warning lights (the left side) I had a similar problem to yours with the hot spot. I tried a few solid/printed methods; different infill patterns, sideways or vertical, etc... what I eventually found to be the best solution is to use two SMT neopixels at the back, then an open space for about 3cm, and then a piece of roscoe diffuser, then a labelling layer (laser printed on overhead projector transparency) and then front acrylic sheet. No hot spots at all, and it's quite bright. :D
I like it, very inspiring. If you add some depth, I have found that a good tip to adopt from photography lighting is to double diffuse. I have added little diffuse 3d printed globes to LEDs then stuck those into slightly larger lanterns. The air gap between diffusion methods helps a lot, but predictably hits brightness a little bit.
I took apart a backlit LCD that used a piece of white plastic as a diffuser, and it had a weird bubble shape towards the LEDs to reduce the hot spots. The bubbling was convex, so directly in front of the LED the plastic was thicker making the light dimmer, but further from the LED the plastic would get thinner and more light would pass through, resulting in a perfectly even light source across an area. I imagine a similar shape could be used to reduce the hotspots that you are getting in the segments, but your limits will come down to the layer height of the 3D printer
I did something similar a while ago, I 3D printed the dark outlines of the segments then I used a 3D pen to fill in the segments with clear filament, it defused nicely
Wowow! 3d printing content inspiring as usual, but creating the font was an especially interesting process!! It gives me kind of a steampunk vibe and if you’ve seen Arcane I feel like it could be the Times New Roman of Piltover 👀🤩
Regarding the light diffusion, I've actually been doing quite a bit of testing, since I wanted even better light diffusion than you got in yours. The basic gist of what I found out is: 1. Use white PETG, but not just any white will do, you need one where it's not fully opaque to allow for control of how much light to block/diffuse depending on number of layers, as well as it not being too transparent, since that would require using many more layers to achieve the same effect. 2. Air is your friend. Basically you don't want any infil or perimiters touching the LEDs themselves, and the distance from the LED "point-of-light" (where it's light is concentrated from, more easily visible on thru-hole mounted LEDs) will allow you finer control over diffusion rate. My simple testing setup consisted of: - A single LED (same model as you used, WS2812B), thru-hole mounted. - A black PETG box covering the LED back/bottom (in your case, your PCB acts as the back/bottom cover), as well as the sides. This was done to prevent light bleeding out where I didn't want it, and other light from bleeding in. - A "reflector" backing plate, which was just a 4 layer (0.2mm layer height) plate that the LED pokes through, to help light bounce around more. (might be worth testing with more reflective surface, or covering it with aluminium tape) - A "diffuser" box, which goes inside the black box. This one consists of 2 perimiters and 2-6 bottom layers (no top layers). The diffusion testing can then be easily tested by tweaking the following parameters: - How deep the "diffuser" box is, mine was mest at around 10mm. - How many bottom layers are used when printing the "diffuser" box (which will actually be the front of the diffuser) Since the resulting box will surround the LED in white PETG (the "diffuser" walls combined with the "reflector"), light will bounce around much more, producing a more even light spread. The "diffuser" itself will, depending on the different settings, help reduce the LED "hot-spot". NOTE: diffusing light will always reduce the total brightness, so it's a balancing act between how much space you have to work with and how even you want the light to be. NOTE #2: Apart from the bottom (actually the front) of the "diffuser" box, the sides and "reflector" could easily be covered by a much more reflective surface (such as aluminium tape), since that will bounce the light around much more effectively. It does seem easier to find good white filament for use as diffusers, when going with PLA, since any PLA marked for "Lithophane" should work.
Top project! That has so many possibilities. I like your font. It had never dawned on me that 7 segment displays can’t do all the letters as I have only really seen them doing numbers. Unless you include rude words on a calculator when you turn it upside down 😂
GREAT video! Please do the follow-up. Wonderful content! One of my biggest challenges with these type of displays has been the diffuser. I see that also caught you up a bit... I'll be super interested to know if you are able to solve this issue.
To make the light distribution more homogeneous, I recommend making the spot directly above the LED thicker and maybe gradually decreasing its thickness the closer you get to the sides
Good job. For future projects something 1-wire and easy to reflow like the WS2812B-2020. According to latest datasheet decoupling capacitor is not needed. I like these because they are easy to design with and code for.
I have experimented with something similar. It was a custom lighting on my bike helmet using LEDs in a 3D printed housing that conforms to the helmet shape. And also blinkers and tail lights for a velomobile. For any of that I did not need to achieve perfectly uniform light on the surface but it did produce some relevant experience. - One way would of course be to increase the distance from the LED to the front surface. The LEDs have a cone of space in front where something like 80% of the light is going. If you just make a 1.5-2mm thick clear PETG surface, then some air space behind it and then the LED, the surface will be iluminated more evenly. The big downside is that the display ends up much thicker. - Another way would be to use varying thickness of the front diffuser. You could print draw it in CAD and print it so that right in front of the LED there is 3mm of clear PETG (so probably 15 layers if using 0.2mm layer height) and in circles around the axis of the LED it gets thinner the further away from the LED you get. Each interface between layer and between extrusion lines scatters the light at least partially in other directions. So the thicker center print should send more of the center of the LEDs light cone sideways than the thinner further parts that see less flux of light. I would also switch solid infill of that part to concentric if the slicer can do it so that it results in circles centered on the LED. But if not then the usual rectilinear is fine. It should be noted that when working with the same amount of LEDs per segment achieving mor uniform distribution will inevitably result in dimmer center. And quite possibly some of the light hitting the front surface now will end up elswhere so the segment will have less light output overall. So the challenge is finding the right compromise between percieved brightness and uniform looking surface.
Nice job! Check out "light pipes" - designing a conduit of plastic that effectively spreads the light from a point source out over a larger surface. These are used in a lot of commercial devices you can find around the home.
I dont know if anyone mentioned this yet, but for better light distribution on the segments, you could always try to either paint or somehow make it so the walls inside each segment is white, bouncing more light around. I understand why you'd want a black separation to reduce bleed between segments, but adding a layer of white on each side or simply painting it white would allow the LED's light to bounce around more instead of being absorbed by the walls, which would help both uniformity and coverage. Might not be a huge difference, but it should definitely help from my experience.
Thanks! I actually use it all the time for arudino stuff. Obviously I use a desktop with a larger screen for CAD work and video editing, but for writing a few lines of code in my workshop, its perfect.
Really like it! Would actually buy something like this (with an ESP32 for Home assistant), or at least get in on a group buy of the PCBs. Ideally they'd be surface mount so can all be assembled at the supplier, and would be great to have easy wall mounting features (e.g. keyhole shaped holes for hanging on screws). The connectors between the displays could be edge mounted so you could literally plug one display into the next. Also would be handy to get an idea of how you could print with single filament printers
Thanks! Yes I'm going to swap out the arduino nano for an ESP32 and send it data over bluetooth or wifi. I've already implemented a scrolling feature to display longer messages since posting this.
Epoxy with Microballoons does a pretty good job of diffusing light. I think the segments are beautiful to look at, but extremely difficult to actually read, which makes them less useful in than they would otherwise be. Additionally, the way that diffusers talk about performance is basically how far the diffuser has to be from two points of light in order to make it impossible to distinguish the two points. It’s a ratio - e.g. a ratio of 4 : 1 would mean that the diffuser has to be 4 times further from the LEDs than the LEDs are from each other. You could significantly improve the diffusion of this project (without adding a huge amount of 3d printing time and material) if you just extend the black portion of the segments further up in your model. That would provide two benefits I can think of off the bat. First, it would improve the uniformity of your diffusion, which will make them look better. Second, it would allow you to have a hollow cavity where the LEDs are mounted, which would probably make assembly much easier as the exact position of the LEDs would no longer matter.
the manufacturing approach is fascinating, to try doing as much as possible in the 3d print. to me it seems like it would be easier, faster, more effective and more economical to use a sheet of frosted acrylic in front of the segment frame. i haven't done the research or tried it myself though, so maybe this approach is kind of nonsense. very cool result!!
I think it is amazing and could be a really nice eyecatcher! I would love to see a followup video and maybe to get the gerber files in any way to order some by myselfe 😁.
I love that font look and agree the uneven distribution adds something good. I wonder if you could add a flickering characteristic that would look like they were lit with candles?
Wow Ben, that's a really good and beautiful segmented typeface! I have to admit i'm team add more segments, because the T is a real strange duckling. The middle segment would be so useful. I read your reactions that you tried it in the designing phase, and I believe you. Maybe go back after a while and have another go? I thought, maybe, make the middle segments extra slender? hollow? We have to find a way, can you imagine seeing this typeface everywhere instead of the 8 segment?
I think I said 2.54mm - given that 1 inch = 25.4mm, I believe that's .1". But I do have a bad habit of switching between metric and imperial units without explaining or giving the equivalent.
Dude, you gotta make a downloadable font based on the 20-segment display. The look of the finished displays look Ozian, like the design language shares a lot of DNA with the Wicked musical.
You can simplify multiple leds per segment issue by running the set of leds for that segment with their data in pins parallel, and keeping just one of the data out pins to the next segment. In my experiments it works fine upto about 10 in parallel before they start to lose data
Nice font selection. I'll likely use different construction methods to do something similar on a larger scale for my project. At around 11:30 you compare the 5mm through-hole LEDS to 5050 SMD packages with a misleading statement about their light dispersion.While there is usually some diffusion in the epoxy to make the pixel appear to fill the circle(and mix the RGB light ) when it's viewed head on, and this does create some side spill of light, the majority of photons actually remain MORE focused on axis by -by far- than any flat window surface mount LED. The hemisphere is literally a focusing lens to project most of the light forward better, and that narrow beam contributes to the hot spot seen. The visible side glow you describe as a useful contributor is merely a weak artifact that happens to be visible when it stands alone, not very helpful in nost light guide applications.
Looks great for a first attempt, you could definitely refine it better. Pouring resin would be so much better at diffusing light. And I think you could make a more refined segment design
If you're going to make a better case for it, try adding a sheet of smoked perspex or similar in front of it. It helps with the contrast. I made a copy of Ivan Miranda's 7 segment clock a while back the white segments were terrible. I ended up just coving the segments with some over-head projector (acetate?) sheets that had been printed completely black in a laser printer and the difference was night and day.
There might be potential in better light distribution if the segments are printed as kind of Fresnel lenses, like the glass covers of a car light beam.But that requires lots of experimentation with different layouts for each segment.
It's got a bit of an art nouveau look, I like it. Would like a version that doesn't require a multimaterial printer though, by separating the segments and the border. That should also significantly speed up printing, since you wouldn't have all the color swaps.
For the difusing part, I've always thought ( but have never tried) that a two layer diffuser would work better. Now i'm not talking about 2 printed layers, but like 2 translucent sheets. Maybe print one with x printed layers, and an extruded lip, and then the other part separately. Sure you could print it all at once, but the bridging would probably mess up the lighting, thats why I would want the 2 parts to be printed separately. The extruded lip would act as a spacer between the two parts.
This just jumped into my head at the end of the video and might not be a good idea at all. You could try playing with the thickness of the segments to even out the light. Make them a little thicker right over the light, and a little thinner further away from the light. It might act to even it out.
I like the font overall, but the "T" really stands out and makes things a little harder to read at a glance
I would have added one more central segment in the top section to be able to center the "T" and the "I"
@@damiensorel6300 Yes. And the T, and the ! and possibly other characters that could use centering as well :)
Agreed, the T is the worst letter. I did have a center line in the top half at one point in the design process, but because of the middle horizontal line, it looked weird either way, so I chose to just do it this way.
@@benmakeseverything Yeah, understandable. It's a really good final product though!
@@benmakeseverything I think that would have been way less weird, or at least way more readable. That T really doesn't look like a T.
The font you came up with really has an elfic art deco vibe, it's warm and comfy.
Art nouveau
@NathanK97 you're absolutely right!
@@NathanK97 Yeah, I was gonna say it reminded me of Alphonse Mucha.
ARt Deco => Made by dwarves
Art Nouveau => made by elves
the industry standard practice for really homogeneous segments now is to make a hollow white plastic cavity with a diffuse foil glued to the front. the cavity in combination with the partial reflectance of the foil allows the light to spread evenly without the need for any resin filler.
I'd be interested in what sort of foil to look for.
A layer or two of clear filament works as an internal diffusor. Then you just need a little air gap from it to the actual front surface "output" diffusor (which is also a couple of layers of clear filament).
I love the Art Nouveau style you used for the segments! I never realized that most displays omit serifs but adding them in almost gives it a sort of 20th century theater or carnival vibe. I would love to see more
Totally agree with that beautiful Art Nouveau look!
Ye OIde Display
I would love to see a version with more segments that introduce a more normal M and T configuration. I think that would look amazing.
Really enjoy the segment design. Very unique and the serifs are such an excellent touch. It's like a perfect combination of illuminated manuscript and stained-glass window
I think the imperfect light spread acts to add more charm to these displays, add to that the art-deco look, especially with the color set to amber.
it could be improved by dimming the "fill in" LEDs so you get that imperfect light but you still get a clear separation of segments
@@drgenio2006Yes, LEDs are cheap enough to place several of them on one segment, reducing the brightness of each one but maintaining the overall brightness due to the quantity.
Just like the old projection digit displays!
You could wire the data-in lines for your 'extra' LEDs in parallel (just take the data-out line from one to go to the next segment) if you wanted to argue with anyone that insists it's not a 'true' 20 segment display. Super fun project, thanks for posting!
Good point! That would have made the code easier too.
Very cool project Ben!
Love the shape that you landed on for the segments.
Not sure I've ever seen serifs in a segmented display before and it's a really nice touch.
dude, this is amazing! if you want full diffuse light, you need 3 layers with space in between... 0,2mm wall, 0,2mm space, 0,2mm wall, 0,2mm spase, 0,2mm wall, than the led :)
The problem is with the spaces. You need infill to separate the spaces and that will show up as shadows, as he explained in the video. However, I think that it might not be such a bad thing, if the right infill is chosen. Would have to experiment.
@@SuperBoppy no infill needet :) i know that, because i had a hack of a time to figer out how to make my rgb-slotcover perfekt, there i needet an perfect diffusor layer. overhangs in his case will work out fine. but what he has done is freaking amazing! love it!
Wow! Love how the 20 segment display looks like a unique piece of art!! It kinda looks like stained glass art. Great job, Ben :D
Awesome! I love that it even looks beautiful when it's not turned on 😮
I always put a neutral density filter in front of a segmented display to hide the segments, but in this case that's like putting blinds in front of a beautiful painting!
Hi Ben 👋Great video and great result! Last year, we needed to built 10 pretty large segmented displays on a limited budget for a client. We opted for lasercutting the segments out a sheet of multiplex, and laying 1 long RGB pixel strip on the inside edge of the segments. No soldering, no fuzz, just 1 long LED strip. Created some plastic inserts for the segments to diffuse the light, and finished with a final sheet of matte Plexiglas on top. Took about 1 hour to laser cut and assemble one (without 3D-printing diffusers). If something would ever break, just replace the single RGB strip, so we shipped them with a spare roll.
This is incredible, I loved the Gothic styling of the font. I've never seen a multisegment display that looked anything like that!
Only thing I can say about the font is that the 'T' is hard to recognize without a lot of context. Maybe another vertical segment through the top section would make it and the 'W' easier to see?
This is pretty awesome! Definitely interested in making one of those 20-segment versions you cooked up, I think they look pretty neat!
Here is what I think. . . Shut up and take my money!!!! These are the most amazing displays I have ever seen. Reminds me of stained glass. Well done mate!!
for getting a more diffuse lighting, you could try changing the thickness of the clear plastic so that it is thicker when it is closer to the led and thinner the further it gets from the led
Pretty neat design! Also: once you've tried using a solder paste stencil + reflow for SMT soldering, it makes assembling boards by hand much easier (and easier/faster than THT soldering). PCBWay and JLC both offer stencils for about ~$6 extra -- just make sure to select the smallest usable sheet size + small buffer (eg. 300x400mm), otherwise shipping can get pretty pricey.
For those with single color printers this can be done by printing the face surface clear and inserting a filament change command to change it to the black part. The elements would be empty and the translucent parts printed separately and inserted.
Really cool project from both a typographers and makers perspective
You have every right to be proud as they look awesome, a part 2 would most welcome !
Pausing to say that Fran Blanche made some really huge 7 segment displays. She needed them for something I think and couldn't find what she needed. IIRC they were about 8 inches tall. (20CM for metric folks)
I just had a thought about the uneven lighting. You would print translucent white directly above the LED and clear around that. This would decrease the light in the bright spot.
Looks great, fantastic font, love all retro displays. For increased contrast I put window tint or ND filters over my 8 segment display to help it in bright conditions.
Looks awesome! Live the font you came up with!
Thanks for making it open source! I'm about to order 50 pcb's for me and other folks from my makerspace :D Can't wait to start soldering
The verdict: Liked and subscribed! Awesome work! And great entertainment for me!
After some experiments I settled on using a single continuous layer of white PETG printed on a textured bed as the diffuser, with black PETG walls separating individual segments. With right density of LEDs in the back it gives a very even distribution of light with no darker spots and no light absorption by the extra plastic. Continuous sheet of the white plastic on front softens the boundaries between segments, what IMHO looks a bit better than crisp edges. Plus, there is no plastic waste on filament changes, and with manual filament swap such a design can be printed on any printer.
I prefer SMD LEDs. With lower height, the display can be thinner than with with TH.
The font combined with the bright spots really adds to a cool midcentury marquee vibe.
I agree: don't try and make them light up evenly, this looks way cooler. Outstanding design.
Wow, Ben, the end product is spectacular! My only criticism would be two additional elements in the middle to make letters "I", "i", "l" and number "1" with better proportional spacing. But otherwise, absolutely beautiful design and execution.
In a better timeline this art nouveau 20 segment display became the standard. I love it.
I haven't tested thoroughly but I did some tinkering with clear recently as well. I used 100% hilbert curve infill at .12 layers. Shining the LED across the layers (hopefully that makes sense?) resulted a nice diffusion with no hot spots. The catch is I had to roughly double the number of LEDs to get the same light spread
Love the font. Cool idea
I liked it , really interested by a part 2 !
Hey, I did a lot of 7seg 3D printing with RGB LEDs. Here is what I learned: You want the inside of the segment to be WHITE - this gives WAY better light scattering than black, which eats away all your light. Either print black (to avoid light bleeding) and paint the inside white, or look for kexcelled3d K5 White Shade PETG which perfectly shades light. Some matte white filaments might also work. Regular white bleeds too much light. Also, use WHITE soldermask on the PCB and consider leaving exposed HASL (copper) spots around the LED as light reflectors.
For the front face a thin white layer as you did it is actually not a bad idea and I like the white front face of the display. I actually use an acrylic sheet with a thin white decor foil stuck on as a front face. This looks really nice as you can't even see the outline of unlit segments anymore. (I added a video to my profile)
Thank you for the suggestions! All of those sound really interesting. I should have thought of doing the inner segment walls in white PETG. And the white solder mask would have been an easy change to make.
Way back in grade school I was doodling on graph paper and came up with a segmented display design that could display all the digits, and A through Z both in caps and lower case, that only needs 17 segments. Basically 3x2 boxes with segments around each box, where a 7-segment display uses 2x1 boxes.
Great Project! I love the Font Style!
Started messing with Leds and am currently making a board for the first time. Your design theme would look good as a programable stained glass effect panel. Used not just for fonts.
I love this stuff! It was really cool that you started with 7 before getting into the more complicated version. I'll be building this with my 10 year old son. Thanks! Looking forward to future efforts. Any nixie tube thoughts? I looked at some of your other videos and have project ideas. Subscribed!
I made my own DSKY from scratch and for the warning lights (the left side) I had a similar problem to yours with the hot spot. I tried a few solid/printed methods; different infill patterns, sideways or vertical, etc... what I eventually found to be the best solution is to use two SMT neopixels at the back, then an open space for about 3cm, and then a piece of roscoe diffuser, then a labelling layer (laser printed on overhead projector transparency) and then front acrylic sheet. No hot spots at all, and it's quite bright. :D
Great project, yes, a follow up video would be great.
I like it, very inspiring. If you add some depth, I have found that a good tip to adopt from photography lighting is to double diffuse. I have added little diffuse 3d printed globes to LEDs then stuck those into slightly larger lanterns. The air gap between diffusion methods helps a lot, but predictably hits brightness a little bit.
I'm always amazed of what people come up with. 👍
Love the font! Very cool idea. Gonna make one myself.
The back to the future Delorian display needed more than seven segments because it needed to have the letters for the month.
I took apart a backlit LCD that used a piece of white plastic as a diffuser, and it had a weird bubble shape towards the LEDs to reduce the hot spots. The bubbling was convex, so directly in front of the LED the plastic was thicker making the light dimmer, but further from the LED the plastic would get thinner and more light would pass through, resulting in a perfectly even light source across an area. I imagine a similar shape could be used to reduce the hotspots that you are getting in the segments, but your limits will come down to the layer height of the 3D printer
I did something similar a while ago, I 3D printed the dark outlines of the segments then I used a 3D pen to fill in the segments with clear filament, it defused nicely
Wowow! 3d printing content inspiring as usual, but creating the font was an especially interesting process!! It gives me kind of a steampunk vibe and if you’ve seen Arcane I feel like it could be the Times New Roman of Piltover 👀🤩
This is insanely cool. Look into flip-dot technology, those are even cooler imo
Super awesome, I love this font! Check out the black-ish "LED acrylic" (from many places, including Adafruit). It helps with the on/off contrast.
Great video, love the font style in the final piece very bioshock 😃
Regarding the light diffusion, I've actually been doing quite a bit of testing, since I wanted even better light diffusion than you got in yours.
The basic gist of what I found out is:
1. Use white PETG, but not just any white will do, you need one where it's not fully opaque to allow for control of how much light to block/diffuse depending on number of layers, as well as it not being too transparent, since that would require using many more layers to achieve the same effect.
2. Air is your friend. Basically you don't want any infil or perimiters touching the LEDs themselves, and the distance from the LED "point-of-light" (where it's light is concentrated from, more easily visible on thru-hole mounted LEDs) will allow you finer control over diffusion rate.
My simple testing setup consisted of:
- A single LED (same model as you used, WS2812B), thru-hole mounted.
- A black PETG box covering the LED back/bottom (in your case, your PCB acts as the back/bottom cover), as well as the sides. This was done to prevent light bleeding out where I didn't want it, and other light from bleeding in.
- A "reflector" backing plate, which was just a 4 layer (0.2mm layer height) plate that the LED pokes through, to help light bounce around more. (might be worth testing with more reflective surface, or covering it with aluminium tape)
- A "diffuser" box, which goes inside the black box. This one consists of 2 perimiters and 2-6 bottom layers (no top layers).
The diffusion testing can then be easily tested by tweaking the following parameters:
- How deep the "diffuser" box is, mine was mest at around 10mm.
- How many bottom layers are used when printing the "diffuser" box (which will actually be the front of the diffuser)
Since the resulting box will surround the LED in white PETG (the "diffuser" walls combined with the "reflector"), light will bounce around much more, producing a more even light spread. The "diffuser" itself will, depending on the different settings, help reduce the LED "hot-spot".
NOTE: diffusing light will always reduce the total brightness, so it's a balancing act between how much space you have to work with and how even you want the light to be.
NOTE #2: Apart from the bottom (actually the front) of the "diffuser" box, the sides and "reflector" could easily be covered by a much more reflective surface (such as aluminium tape), since that will bounce the light around much more effectively.
It does seem easier to find good white filament for use as diffusers, when going with PLA, since any PLA marked for "Lithophane" should work.
I’d love to build/buy one of these, very cool design. Just needs a wooden case but that’s easy enough.
Top project! That has so many possibilities. I like your font. It had never dawned on me that 7 segment displays can’t do all the letters as I have only really seen them doing numbers. Unless you include rude words on a calculator when you turn it upside down 😂
Wow that came out so stinking good!
You should really try to make each segment a different color and go for a stained glass window look, this is just too cool
Great demo project!!
Well Done. Nicely presented. Merry Christmas.
GREAT video! Please do the follow-up. Wonderful content! One of my biggest challenges with these type of displays has been the diffuser. I see that also caught you up a bit... I'll be super interested to know if you are able to solve this issue.
To make the light distribution more homogeneous, I recommend making the spot directly above the LED thicker and maybe gradually decreasing its thickness the closer you get to the sides
Congratulation, awesome project! Lots fantastic work.
Good job. For future projects something 1-wire and easy to reflow like the WS2812B-2020. According to latest datasheet decoupling capacitor is not needed. I like these because they are easy to design with and code for.
I have experimented with something similar. It was a custom lighting on my bike helmet using LEDs in a 3D printed housing that conforms to the helmet shape. And also blinkers and tail lights for a velomobile. For any of that I did not need to achieve perfectly uniform light on the surface but it did produce some relevant experience.
- One way would of course be to increase the distance from the LED to the front surface. The LEDs have a cone of space in front where something like 80% of the light is going. If you just make a 1.5-2mm thick clear PETG surface, then some air space behind it and then the LED, the surface will be iluminated more evenly. The big downside is that the display ends up much thicker.
- Another way would be to use varying thickness of the front diffuser. You could print draw it in CAD and print it so that right in front of the LED there is 3mm of clear PETG (so probably 15 layers if using 0.2mm layer height) and in circles around the axis of the LED it gets thinner the further away from the LED you get. Each interface between layer and between extrusion lines scatters the light at least partially in other directions. So the thicker center print should send more of the center of the LEDs light cone sideways than the thinner further parts that see less flux of light. I would also switch solid infill of that part to concentric if the slicer can do it so that it results in circles centered on the LED. But if not then the usual rectilinear is fine.
It should be noted that when working with the same amount of LEDs per segment achieving mor uniform distribution will inevitably result in dimmer center. And quite possibly some of the light hitting the front surface now will end up elswhere so the segment will have less light output overall. So the challenge is finding the right compromise between percieved brightness and uniform looking surface.
Nice job! Check out "light pipes" - designing a conduit of plastic that effectively spreads the light from a point source out over a larger surface. These are used in a lot of commercial devices you can find around the home.
Why is this channel so underrated?
I dont know if anyone mentioned this yet, but for better light distribution on the segments, you could always try to either paint or somehow make it so the walls inside each segment is white, bouncing more light around.
I understand why you'd want a black separation to reduce bleed between segments, but adding a layer of white on each side or simply painting it white would allow the LED's light to bounce around more instead of being absorbed by the walls, which would help both uniformity and coverage. Might not be a huge difference, but it should definitely help from my experience.
Loved the Cyberdeck cameo, it always makes me happy to see makers actually using their projects after they're done.
Thanks! I actually use it all the time for arudino stuff. Obviously I use a desktop with a larger screen for CAD work and video editing, but for writing a few lines of code in my workshop, its perfect.
Really like it! Would actually buy something like this (with an ESP32 for Home assistant), or at least get in on a group buy of the PCBs. Ideally they'd be surface mount so can all be assembled at the supplier, and would be great to have easy wall mounting features (e.g. keyhole shaped holes for hanging on screws). The connectors between the displays could be edge mounted so you could literally plug one display into the next. Also would be handy to get an idea of how you could print with single filament printers
Thanks! Yes I'm going to swap out the arduino nano for an ESP32 and send it data over bluetooth or wifi. I've already implemented a scrolling feature to display longer messages since posting this.
Genuinely cool idea. Thank you.
Epoxy with Microballoons does a pretty good job of diffusing light. I think the segments are beautiful to look at, but extremely difficult to actually read, which makes them less useful in than they would otherwise be.
Additionally, the way that diffusers talk about performance is basically how far the diffuser has to be from two points of light in order to make it impossible to distinguish the two points. It’s a ratio - e.g. a ratio of 4 : 1 would mean that the diffuser has to be 4 times further from the LEDs than the LEDs are from each other. You could significantly improve the diffusion of this project (without adding a huge amount of 3d printing time and material) if you just extend the black portion of the segments further up in your model. That would provide two benefits I can think of off the bat. First, it would improve the uniformity of your diffusion, which will make them look better. Second, it would allow you to have a hollow cavity where the LEDs are mounted, which would probably make assembly much easier as the exact position of the LEDs would no longer matter.
It's a very clever and good looking design! i really like it
Really cool!! Like this font and wanna try myself, thx for making this!
Version 2 (or 3 or???) needs an upper center vertical segment. Awesome! Love it.
I love to see a more refined design, I like the artdeco look!
I've found that having the led 23mm behind the the translucent surface works best. It's all about the distance to get good diffusion,
the manufacturing approach is fascinating, to try doing as much as possible in the 3d print. to me it seems like it would be easier, faster, more effective and more economical to use a sheet of frosted acrylic in front of the segment frame. i haven't done the research or tried it myself though, so maybe this approach is kind of nonsense. very cool result!!
I think it is amazing and could be a really nice eyecatcher! I would love to see a followup video and maybe to get the gerber files in any way to order some by myselfe 😁.
I love that font look and agree the uneven distribution adds something good. I wonder if you could add a flickering characteristic that would look like they were lit with candles?
Cool project. I've had good results using vellum as a diffuser.
Posy would be proud!
Definitely you must show this to Posy, especially this progressing segment ligthning (even if it wasn't intentional).
woow, you take 7 segment to new level
Wow Ben, that's a really good and beautiful segmented typeface! I have to admit i'm team add more segments, because the T is a real strange duckling. The middle segment would be so useful. I read your reactions that you tried it in the designing phase, and I believe you. Maybe go back after a while and have another go? I thought, maybe, make the middle segments extra slender? hollow? We have to find a way, can you imagine seeing this typeface everywhere instead of the 8 segment?
@9:09 breadboards have 0.1" spacing. While 2.5mm will work over a decent distance, it's still better to call it what it is.
I think I said 2.54mm - given that 1 inch = 25.4mm, I believe that's .1". But I do have a bad habit of switching between metric and imperial units without explaining or giving the equivalent.
Dude, you gotta make a downloadable font based on the 20-segment display. The look of the finished displays look Ozian, like the design language shares a lot of DNA with the Wicked musical.
I'll try to see if I can export the sketches as a svg file and figure out some way to convert that to a font.
You can simplify multiple leds per segment issue by running the set of leds for that segment with their data in pins parallel, and keeping just one of the data out pins to the next segment. In my experiments it works fine upto about 10 in parallel before they start to lose data
That's a great design, very legible
These look so cool.
I just can't stop imagining them made out of stained glass for some reason.
Nice font selection. I'll likely use different construction methods to do something similar on a larger scale for my project.
At around 11:30 you compare the 5mm through-hole LEDS to 5050 SMD packages with a misleading statement about their light dispersion.While there is usually some diffusion in the epoxy to make the pixel appear to fill the circle(and mix the RGB light ) when it's viewed head on, and this does create some side spill of light, the majority of photons actually remain MORE focused on axis by -by far- than any flat window surface mount LED. The hemisphere is literally a focusing lens to project most of the light forward better, and that narrow beam contributes to the hot spot seen. The visible side glow you describe as a useful contributor is merely a weak artifact that happens to be visible when it stands alone, not very helpful in nost light guide applications.
Ok, I didn't know that, interesting. I was just going by my own subjective observations.
Looks great for a first attempt, you could definitely refine it better. Pouring resin would be so much better at diffusing light. And I think you could make a more refined segment design
That resulting font tickles so much my love for fonts. Now I i need to find a project to apply this to
The T is very tastefully done for the restrictions of the build
Whoa, that's a neat font
If you're going to make a better case for it, try adding a sheet of smoked perspex or similar in front of it. It helps with the contrast. I made a copy of Ivan Miranda's 7 segment clock a while back the white segments were terrible. I ended up just coving the segments with some over-head projector (acetate?) sheets that had been printed completely black in a laser printer and the difference was night and day.
There might be potential in better light distribution if the segments are printed as kind of Fresnel lenses, like the glass covers of a car light beam.But that requires lots of experimentation with different layouts for each segment.
It's got a bit of an art nouveau look, I like it. Would like a version that doesn't require a multimaterial printer though, by separating the segments and the border. That should also significantly speed up printing, since you wouldn't have all the color swaps.
Great work!
For the difusing part, I've always thought ( but have never tried) that a two layer diffuser would work better. Now i'm not talking about 2 printed layers, but like 2 translucent sheets. Maybe print one with x printed layers, and an extruded lip, and then the other part separately. Sure you could print it all at once, but the bridging would probably mess up the lighting, thats why I would want the 2 parts to be printed separately. The extruded lip would act as a spacer between the two parts.
They look like stained glass windows of an art nouveau storefront, very cool.
This just jumped into my head at the end of the video and might not be a good idea at all. You could try playing with the thickness of the segments to even out the light. Make them a little thicker right over the light, and a little thinner further away from the light. It might act to even it out.
Brilliant, thank you. I would love a follow-up.