@@Level2Jeffbut you don't even have the open mouth screaming face thumbnail! This is getting into red shirt Jeff levels of incompetence 😂. (Btw this is literally the first pi5 video I'm watching, I saw the others of yours there but I assume it's basically "goes faster, costs more", the thermals and graphs are actually really useful info. For my applications 10s of full power CPU would actually be plenty.)
I wonder how a passive heat pipe cooler would do. Looking at those heat sinks I think they will be limited a lot by horizontal conduction. I suspect a vapour chamber cooler slightly higher in profile than this unit would keep it moderately under the thermal limit even if passive. They aren't even that hard to make, CNC and some acetone would do the job.
@@zyeborm It still needs something that leads the heat away or it will overheat eventually. If relying solely on passive convection, the surface area needs to be big enough. A vapour chamber is good at distributing the thermal energy but that's all it does. The Pi5 is low power enough that it's within diminishing returns territory vs a plain aluminium heatsink, I think.
@@zyeborm A well-design passive, heat pipe cooler would work.. just take the fan off the 52Pi tower cooler on a regular rPi5 and you'll see, like I did. ☺️👍
I was surprised by how hot the pi5 gets. I was able to passively cool one to 40C despite the CPU running full out. The key was a 1"x1" chunk of aluminum to conduct the heat above the USB ports and then a big honking heat sink. I'm excited about the cm5, but with that power draw, it sounds like the old cm4 is better in a battery powered device.
Technically you can lower or limit the CPU clocks on the CM5 to match the power draw of CM4. And I assume it will still be faster (and thus, more efficient) than CM4, though I wish somebody put some numbers to this assumption.
Not too surprising, something similar happened in the transition from Raspberry Pi 4 to Pi 5. With RPi4, the word was that you‘re really probably gonna need cooling, although maybe you can get away without it. Then with RPi5 you need the cooling, no ifs ands or buts. Now we have the same clarity about the CM5.
@@playitlouder451 Not true. From the Wikipedia page International System of Units: "According to the SI Brochure, unit names should be treated as common nouns of the context language. [...] For example, in English and French, even when the unit is named after a person and its symbol begins with a capital letter, the unit name in running text should start with a lowercase letter (e.g., newton, hertz, pascal) and is capitalised only at the beginning of a sentence and in headings and publication titles. As a nontrivial application of this rule, the SI Brochure notes that the name of the unit with the symbol °C is correctly spelled as 'degree Celsius': the first letter of the name of the unit, 'd', is in lowercase, while the modifier 'Celsius' is capitalised because it is a proper name."
Hi Jeff, thank you for reviewing EDATEC's CM5 Active Cooler! We will be gradually releasing more products based on CM5, covering IPC, HMI, Mini-ITX motherboards, and we look forward to your review of them!
I tested both, as long as you have enough airflow (I had my 140mm Noctua blowing at lower speed), it won't throttle. At least not at the default 2.4 GHz clock!
@@Level2Jeff If you have the time and curiosity, can you limit the CM5 to the power draw of CM4 ? And test if it's still faster (and thus, more efficient), given the same thermal constraints ?
@@Winnetou17 I did test underclocking to 2.0 GHz (no lower than that), but didn't have my power monitor plugged in at that time, so I don't have numbers. Should've done that lol. I do have some numbers for underclocking the Pi 5 on my blog: www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/overclocking-and-underclocking-raspberry-pi-5
That looks linked to it less efficient but slightly powerful which have more energy goes to heat Unfortunately passive cooling is very inefficient compared to active cooling which just needs very little amount of airflow to have great improvement ( if loading was not constantly high over time, a larger heatsink with bigger heat capacity might still be able to store them before goes throttle ) Cm5 cluster : no problem just give everyone a heatsink and one system fan for all
What does this mean for homeassistant yellow users? They have said the cm5 is compatible with HA Yellow. Does it need to be cooled? Any way to cool it in there?
Did the CM4 cooler on the CM5 fit in the case with the case fan? Really surprised (actually not) that the CM5 heat sink doesn't fit in the case with its fan. Disappointing.
It shouldn't be a problem, just may not be all that worthy while - you can set a throttle back temperature on the 4 and 5 (definately on the 3) with the temp_soft_limit if you want to keep it cooler, and even hard throttled the Pi5 was faster than the 4 so while you may not get the same performance uptick as you'd like it should feel much snappier to use.
Normal activity is fine-it's bursty and the SoC can keep from throttling normally. But if you do video transcoding, or push it for more than 10-30 seconds at a time, I'd worry a little more.
Hello Jeff! We are designing an expansion board based on the CM5, featuring rich functionalities and ease of use-perfect for makers and developers. We’d be happy to send you a sample for unboxing and review to share your experience. Would you be interested? Looking forward to hearing from you! 😊
This title isn't clickbait. Come on Jeff, you can't do more than that.
Thumbnails are where it's at, though!
"I added a heatsink to the CM5, you WON'T BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENED (to the graph)"
@@SamSkjord Well played!
@@Level2Jeffbut you don't even have the open mouth screaming face thumbnail! This is getting into red shirt Jeff levels of incompetence 😂.
(Btw this is literally the first pi5 video I'm watching, I saw the others of yours there but I assume it's basically "goes faster, costs more", the thermals and graphs are actually really useful info. For my applications 10s of full power CPU would actually be plenty.)
"THIS CM5 ALMOST BURNED MY HOUSE DOWN!"
dunno man I'm not a fan (pun intended) of active cooling for a raspi
Very good
People are cowardly these days, never intending their puns. You sir are a cut above most. Own your puns people!
Keep adding copper or aluminum until you no longer need a fan.
It does make you wonder where they hide the cooling in cell phones.
After some oscillating, I agree with you
I want a liquid cooled CM5 cluster. Might have to dust off the CNC mill and make some little water blocks, because why not? 🤔
I wonder how a passive heat pipe cooler would do. Looking at those heat sinks I think they will be limited a lot by horizontal conduction.
I suspect a vapour chamber cooler slightly higher in profile than this unit would keep it moderately under the thermal limit even if passive.
They aren't even that hard to make, CNC and some acetone would do the job.
@@zyeborm It still needs something that leads the heat away or it will overheat eventually. If relying solely on passive convection, the surface area needs to be big enough. A vapour chamber is good at distributing the thermal energy but that's all it does. The Pi5 is low power enough that it's within diminishing returns territory vs a plain aluminium heatsink, I think.
@@zyeborm
A well-design passive, heat pipe cooler would work.. just take the fan off the 52Pi tower cooler on a regular rPi5 and you'll see, like I did. ☺️👍
I was surprised by how hot the pi5 gets. I was able to passively cool one to 40C despite the CPU running full out. The key was a 1"x1" chunk of aluminum to conduct the heat above the USB ports and then a big honking heat sink. I'm excited about the cm5, but with that power draw, it sounds like the old cm4 is better in a battery powered device.
Technically you can lower or limit the CPU clocks on the CM5 to match the power draw of CM4. And I assume it will still be faster (and thus, more efficient) than CM4, though I wish somebody put some numbers to this assumption.
@@Winnetou17 that's a good point, and yes, it would be interesting to see it verified. Just seems wrong to have all that CPU and not use it. :-)
Not too surprising, something similar happened in the transition from Raspberry Pi 4 to Pi 5. With RPi4, the word was that you‘re really probably gonna need cooling, although maybe you can get away without it. Then with RPi5 you need the cooling, no ifs ands or buts. Now we have the same clarity about the CM5.
71 fahrenheit is 21.67 Celsius.
agree to a degree ;-)
google put a translation link on this comment. The only thing that changes is that it capitalizes Fahrenheit which I guess it assumes is German?
@@blahblahblahblah2933 Units named after a person are capitalized. Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit in this case. Also Watt, Ampere, Volt, Celcius, Joule
@@playitlouder451 Not true. From the Wikipedia page International System of Units: "According to the SI Brochure, unit names should be treated as common nouns of the context language. [...] For example, in English and French, even when the unit is named after a person and its symbol begins with a capital letter, the unit name in running text should start with a lowercase letter (e.g., newton, hertz, pascal) and is capitalised only at the beginning of a sentence and in headings and publication titles. As a nontrivial application of this rule, the SI Brochure notes that the name of the unit with the symbol °C is correctly spelled as 'degree Celsius': the first letter of the name of the unit, 'd', is in lowercase, while the modifier 'Celsius' is capitalised because it is a proper name."
love the paper graph
Hi Jeff, thank you for reviewing EDATEC's CM5 Active Cooler! We will be gradually releasing more products based on CM5, covering IPC, HMI, Mini-ITX motherboards, and we look forward to your review of them!
Would love to see the io dev board with the case fan blowing down onto either no cooler, or the CM4 passive cooler on that graph as well.
If Rpi could have made the case a little taller to use that case fan and passive heat sink could possibly keep it at, what 50° C?
the cm4 cooler plus the fan in the IO board case would probably be enough aswell. not sure.
I wonder if direct die with no fan would be just enough to prevent throttling.
Hi Jeff, why not using a 52pi ventirad ?
I wonder if the CM4 heatsink would fit in that case with the fan it comes with, and if so what the thermals THEN would be
Does it need the heatsink? Or will it avoid throttling with just a fan pointed at it?
I tested both, as long as you have enough airflow (I had my 140mm Noctua blowing at lower speed), it won't throttle. At least not at the default 2.4 GHz clock!
@@Level2Jeff If you have the time and curiosity, can you limit the CM5 to the power draw of CM4 ? And test if it's still faster (and thus, more efficient), given the same thermal constraints ?
@@Winnetou17 I did test underclocking to 2.0 GHz (no lower than that), but didn't have my power monitor plugged in at that time, so I don't have numbers. Should've done that lol.
I do have some numbers for underclocking the Pi 5 on my blog: www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/overclocking-and-underclocking-raspberry-pi-5
That looks linked to it less efficient but slightly powerful which have more energy goes to heat
Unfortunately passive cooling is very inefficient compared to active cooling which just needs very little amount of airflow to have great improvement ( if loading was not constantly high over time, a larger heatsink with bigger heat capacity might still be able to store them before goes throttle )
Cm5 cluster : no problem just give everyone a heatsink and one system fan for all
0:07 Is the CM5 module working properly on the DeskPi Super6C board?
Did you test the case fan? Did any of these work in the case?
The weight of the CM5 heat sink is probably too much for the connectors. Hence the need to attach back to the carrier board.
I'm interested but, still waiting Risc-V based solutions, projects.
Wouldn't some good cooler paste improve the effect of all the options compared to the pads? Thanks.
you gotta Fonz it, no leather jacket required ...
What does this mean for homeassistant yellow users? They have said the cm5 is compatible with HA Yellow. Does it need to be cooled? Any way to cool it in there?
get the Frore AirJet to cool it
Did the CM4 cooler on the CM5 fit in the case with the case fan?
Really surprised (actually not) that the CM5 heat sink doesn't fit in the case with its fan. Disappointing.
Does the Pi CM5 official passive cooler also work on them CM4?
I was going to swap my cm4 in my ClockworkPi uConsole to a CM5, but now I worry that it may overheat. :\
It shouldn't be a problem, just may not be all that worthy while - you can set a throttle back temperature on the 4 and 5 (definately on the 3) with the temp_soft_limit if you want to keep it cooler, and even hard throttled the Pi5 was faster than the 4 so while you may not get the same performance uptick as you'd like it should feel much snappier to use.
And Raspberry Pi mentions you can underclock (to say, 2.0 GHz) to save on power and thermals, while still being about 2x faster than CM4
@@Level2Jeffoh nice! Thanks!
What load will they take without a load of heatsinks and fans ?
Normal activity is fine-it's bursty and the SoC can keep from throttling normally. But if you do video transcoding, or push it for more than 10-30 seconds at a time, I'd worry a little more.
Thermal mass does not increase cooling capacity..
Increased surface increasing coiling capacity... The added mass only acts as a larger buffer.
nice!
Ok Jeff, you need to slow down… I only have an hour a day to watch RUclips.
J/K.
Ha! Well I kept all these videos nice and short so you can fit them in a half hour!
Hello Jeff! We are designing an expansion board based on the CM5, featuring rich functionalities and ease of use-perfect for makers and developers. We’d be happy to send you a sample for unboxing and review to share your experience. Would you be interested? Looking forward to hearing from you! 😊
I’ve sent an email hope you have a chance to check it. If convenient, I look forward to your reply. Thank you so much! 😊
The fan turns on when the board is off and turns off when the board is on ?! Classic British engineering.
Pi is trash. Their node choice sucks for efficiency and software support also sucks
You know the subscribe button works the other way too 😂