Mylar vs Hide Banjo Heads: A Side by Side Comparison
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- Опубликовано: 31 янв 2020
- I have run Renaissance heads on my banjos for almost two decades, and I thought this year it was time for some experimentation with real hide heads. I ordered a Menzies head mounted by John Balch and wanted to provide everyone with a side-by-side comparison of the two heads.
If you want more information about John Balch, his amazing music and his hide heads please visit: www.hidebanjoheads.com
If you want access to exclusive content for this, and hundreds of other videos and topics related to banjo, old-time music and acoustic ephemera, please consider joining my Patreon campaign: / tomcollins 
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I listened to this video without watching and every time I heard the tone that I liked, I looked up at what head was on. Always was the hide head.
Nice!
THAAAANK YOUUUU.
When I was listening to your explanation I was like damn. That sounds so tedious. BUT I’m so grateful you took this time. Thank you!
Hahahah! You're welcome! Yeah, it took awhile to set this up...but I love doing this kind of stuff, so it didn't feel like a chore. Good luck!
I must say, your comparison of skin to mylar is very well done.
Many folks attempt to offer comparisons of a particular aspect of a musical instrument, and many introduce it in a way that might involves completely different base instruments. Apples and persimmons don’t cut it.
Well done, and very nice tone! I’m gonna get one of those skin heads for me.
Thanks for the comment, Mark! This video took a lot of time to create, and I'm glad folks have appreciated it. The one issue is that it's really impossible to tune both heads exactly the same due to variations in thickness. This is as close as I could get! I think it does offer a good snapshot of both heads in action though. Let me know how you like the skin head! I think they're worth it for sure. Best, Tom
Ok, I'm convinced! With a mellow banjo played over the scoop by a mellow player, there's no need for a hide head. Mylar sounds mellow enough, but has the timbral overtone sizzle built in to its EQ. Cheers!
Great post Tom, informative and accessible. I like the idea of the hide giving the instrument more variation - or personality - from day to day.
Excellent presentation. Very well done, thanks. A lot of work has gone into this.
Thanks banjoman44! Yes, this took many hours to create. Thanks for watching, Tom
I was looking for a comparison and this is by far the best thing I've found. Excellent work. Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed!
This is incredibly informative. Thank you!
Glad it was useful, KurzesSpiel!
Thanks Tom! - about time someone did this
The Mylar sounds livelier more energetic, 'lighter/thinner not as thick as the hide head - some of those peak/louder higher notes on the Mylar are slightly jarring compared to the hide head. I should note I'm 65 and my hearing is not what it used to be. (I play an Ome open back with a Silverspun tonering - and renaissance head - I have considered a hide head in the past , even emailed John Balch - still considering it after this video)
Great post. Nice observations. Cheers!
I think you do really well with your videos man! It's not everyday i see people on youtube really obsessed with clawhammer banjo as much as i am who can give such a professional delivery with their clawhammer banjo stuff! I just bought a Remo high fiber head... i haven't installed it yet because i like the dirt patterns from my rambling days! But Alas!!! i want that plunky sound! Anyway! keep up the good stuff! P.S. the Hide is more resonant and plunky but the Mylar is more precise (no overtones after the note) yet sometimes more high pitch like you said.
Thanks, Tim!
i was (for decades) a complete and exclusive hide user on drums
along with only old drum shells from wood that was laying on the ground of a lake for two hundred years and the strings of my snare where rolled on the thighs of thaitian virgins😜
spend a fortune and had always
„guilty conscience „
for being such a gear junky!
it always felt wrong!
maybe something went wrong in my childhood🤕
these days, i’m 68, i just use what i get and try to make it sound „ good“ (like remo ambassador heads , the cheapest)
(but i’m not immune for relapse🤒 when i see those beautiful ome banjos!)
ah btw.
i don’t hear a big difference between the two skins!
you play these banjos so beautifully it gets me with plastic or hide!
thanks a lot 🙏
I've now got two vintage banjo variants, one is a 50's soviet germany banjolele, the other is a 1920's (I was told) English banjolin. After I buy a banjitar I've had my eye on (east Germany again) I'll be sending all 3 into him to get them worked on!
They've all got adorable 5" drums!
awesome! Those old banjos have so much character. Thanks for the comment.
I think it can depend on the mood a person is in to what sounds a person is wanting to bring out also. Some days I like a plunky and some days I'm liking a punch or bright sound.
Thank you for doing this
i am considering adding a new banjo with a natural head, calf maybe. i like the hide sound better, it is richer, sharper and seems to have some banjo twang which is what i am looking for! great video. thanks for taking the time to do this it has reassured me to give hide a try!
Glad it was useful to you. Good luck, and let me know how it goes with a natural head!
I much prefer the hide head. A well-seasoned hide head won't change much. I live in the Northwest and my RB--00 has stabilized well over the years and I rarely need to mess with it.
It's certainly stabilized over the last few days. I've loving the sound and the look. Thanks for your post!
Hey folks! I'm very curious to know what you guys hear when you listen to the comparison. Post your thoughts below! I read every single comment, and love to respond to viewers thoughts and questions.
This was a great comparison. Hearing them side by side, over and over, let us really hone in on the differences. The 4th string sounds way better with the skin head, IMO. Just fuller, and more organic. (I guess saying it sounds more "organic" is just the flip side of your description of the mylar head as "plastic" sounding, come to think of it!) I put a hairy goatskin head on a banjo I have that has an all-wood Atlas pot and a carbon fiber neck, and I love it on that. I'm a big "stuffer" of banjos and I don't need to stuff that to get the sound I love. It's my current favorite for playing alone or with one or two other musicians. In a band setting, or a big jam, I have a Remo Renaissance head on my main, utility banjo, and am perfectly happy with that head in that situation. I guess I need both!
Hilarie! Thanks so much for watching. I refer folks to your fantastic vids often. Yeah, that 4th string. Whew. Makes me want to play everything in double C.... Agree on the "organic"....and maybe "woody"? I've been an "anti-stuffer" for years, but have recently been putting all sorts of odd things in my banjos to change the tone a bit. Who says a leopard can't change its spots! I get why folks stuff now, and I think the Balch head has given me what I was striving for: bold, bell-like tone without the super-duper high tinkly bits. Agree that the Ren heads are awesome. So glad they're available, and will always keep them as an option. As always, I'm a huge fan of yours. Thanks for posting!!
With my sound equipment: almost no difference in sound, timbre and overtones between the two heads...
Wow, I didn't think there'd be that much of a difference, but the hide head sounds so much better!
Also, lovely arrangement and performance of Soldier's Joy!
Thanks so much!
It’s all about the skin heads for tone. Got three brooks banjos. All 3 with goat skin. Incredible tone.
Totally agree with your conclusion.The goat head on my open back ( Romero #12303) for no good reason decided to split - just went bang in the night. I replaced it today with a fresh Renaissance I had laying around. It's a touch on the bright side but you know I'm hearing some neat undertones coming through that I kind of like - didn't get that with with the hide. More than likely be going for a natural head again but either way I'm going to miss the one off staining pattern of the old head. Thank you for your uploads - 'top drawer' stuff : )
Sounds like you had it fairly tight. Since that was in March? Maybe you had the heat on a lit high? Excessive heat on an already tight skin head with cause it to become even tighter.
I'm a guitarist rather than banjo player (so far anyway; thinking of taking it up, but for now time restraints are stopping me) I think the hide head sounds expansive. I could see preferring the focus of the mylar as well, especially in an ensemble, but as a solo instrument, the hide's openness makes a place for mystery to happen. I like that.
Wow. Yes. So much yes. David, you got great ears. Hope you take up banjo!! We need you! Great post. I agree with you 100%. Mystery. That's what it is. Of course, the Ren head is no slouch with that assertive, throaty focus. It's a win/win. Thanks so much for your insight.
I put a mute under my plastic head to knock down bad overtones. Try different items to discover what sounds best. Each banjo is different so would the mute type be under the head.
Helpful video - thanks. Have you tried a Fiberskyn head? How did it compare to the real hide head in this video? I'd also love to hear a sound comparison between Remo Weatherking and Remo Fiberskyn heads... or even your take on how the thee head types differ in sound, and which is best for recording.
The hide head sounds warmer, which I believe would be great for solo playing, but it would probably not fare well in an ensemble, as the added brightness of the Mylar head helps it cut through the mix
Nice thoughts! Mylar also is more consistent season to season. If I were traveling a bunch, or playing outside a lot, I think I'd stick with mylar. Cheers! Tom
hey tom! ever think about doing a video on how you tighten your banjo heads? ive recently bought and installed a balch head and im terrified of over tightening it. it sounds great, but i feel like i might be missing out on the correctly dialed in tone that this head can give me. thanks!
Hi Michael! Yes. I'm planning on doing some banjo setup stuff this winter for Patreon.
In this setup the ren. head sounds flatter and rounder to me. The hide sounds tinnier and warblier... if that's a thing. I own a Balch Stern head and it can sounds great, it gets especially warm and plunky with a loose head tension. Nonetheless, I have a renaissance head on my primary banjo. I think it's good to have both and to also set them up to sound how you want them too. I must admit, I don't use conventional head tensions, I like them loose.
Beautiful
I agree with virtually everything you say about skin and mylar heads. I wonder how long that vellum had been on your banjo and whether it settled after a while, because I thought it sounded a bit noisy and not as clean as the mylar. I love vellum, and though many will argue the point, I think it has more of the tone that I value. I thought on the video it just sounded a bit "new".
Yes...brand spanking new head. Has it settled over the years? Well...I couldn't be sure as I've changed the tuning and tension so much to find its happy place (which changes seasonally!!). A moving target for sure. And I dropped my fly tying scissors onto the head and they went into it like a hot knife into butter....so there's a superglued hole in there now. Too many variables...but it is richer and more musical than the Renaissance to my ears. It's a subjective topic at the end of the day. Horses for courses!
Wow! The buttery tone of that hide head is awesome. Thinking of trying one on my Ome wizard. I may have missed it, but could you specify which head you purchased? Thanks.
I purchased the Menzies head from John Balch. I love the Ome Wizards! Thanks for watching.
For me, the Mylar head seemed brighter, particularly on the high notes. The hide head was definitely fuller, richer. Both sounded great, but I started listening with my eyes closed to avoid bias and I preferred hide.
I have to say i prefer the mylar. I like that top end tingely sound.
For me thats one of the hallmarks of banjo that attracts me to it. Te hide sounded to my ears slightly dampened ... but each to their own
Yup, Totally. You'll get that high frequency response, and sparkle, if you use a mylar head. It can be super beautiful. Glad we have a choice!
Hide had a softer sound. Not less volume, just softer. The plastic one was crisp. To me, change wouldn’t matter, but to a serious player I could see how any variable would be annoying.
Nice observation, blueroad123. There is a "feathery" quality to the hide sound. Thanks for posting!
Great video
Thanks!
The fourth string is so controlled and well-packaged. Not sure how to describe it, exactly. The hide head sounds... and this might make no sense too... more like a drum! Like the resonance of a conga (after the hand attack).
Oohhh! Yeah! I agree. It's "woody" in that conga way.
I have a Carver fretless banjo that I put together myself. I just soaked the goat skin it came with and tacked it on. While I’m sure it would not pass Tom’s quality test, it is certainly good enough for me. Of course, when I play outside in rain or humidity the sound of the banjo is like beating a wet blanket, but I just use a hair dryer on the head and it’s good to go.
Hey! That sounds great! I love DIY solutions, and the banjo is certainly built for tinkerers. Hair dryers are a time tested solution for soggy heads. Incandescent lightbulbs used to be used too. Thanks for posting!
I slowly cranked my goat hide head as tight as it would go and left it like that. It hasn't given me any troubles or noticeably changed over the past two years. Sheep (vellum) would not be able to do that, though, from what I've heard from others.
I like hide heads a lot, but I’ve had two bust in the middle of the night. Neither heads were overly tightened. I also have had terrible luck with them at summer festivals. They sound great, but I’m sticking with my Renaissance. I want to play my banjo, not fuss with the head. PLEASE do report back after a summer festival where high humidity persists. It can be a maddening experience.
Thanks for the interesting video!
Good point! I'll definitely be reporting back. Stay tuned!
Did you have Goat or Sheep (vellum) heads? I've had great results from goat. It's supposedly more stable than vellum.
James Peterson they were both goat.
You can set one banjo up with a plastic head and use it for your summer banjo and another one with a hide head.
If it's some and you tighten then heads too much, and then there's excessive heat, they're going to pop. It's leather. When you're not playing, you need to lay the bridge down to reduce pressure on the leather head, If it's really hot (heat wave), loose it up with a 1/4 turn on the hook nuts all the way around.
Hey, what brand is that banjo of yours with the star in the scoop and how much did it cost? It is one of the most beautiful banjos I've seen in my opinion.
Hey Frodo Baggins! That's an Ome Omega. I think Ome makes about 1-2 per year. They're just incredible instruments, with inlay done by the legendary Glenn Carson. I'm not sure what the retail is on them now...you'll have to check with your Ome dealer on that. They're heirloom instruments that sound great and play easy. Highly recommended!
@@FretlessFury thanks for the info Tom, , I'll look into them
I put headphones on and had the same opinion you did..was thinking the Hide head had a richer fuller sound..
I agree, Cameron. Headphones help a lot. What really amazes me is that the hide head can compete in volume. I had written them off as naturally quiet, but it's clear that they can sing with the modern materials. Thanks for your post!
The hide definitely gives more texture to the sound, and what I would imagine is the more authentic sound. I could be wrong. I don't know much about banjos 😅.
Hahaha! I agree with ya for sure. After almost 25 years with the banjo I still feel like a student ... learning new things all the time. At the end of the day you just gotta trust your ears. Thanks for the comment!
I prefer the Renaissance head myself. I've played them for years. I also have a number of older banjos with hide heads that I just love also. I think that each and every banjo has a different sound than any other.
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Wonderful comparison video! I like the sound of both the Mylar and the goat skin with a preference for the goat skin but, unfortunately, do not trust that I could handle the variable nature of goat skin on my instruments. That brings up the question of Fiberskin heads. I've recently ordered a custom Pisgah and am toying with the idea of Fiberskin. Tom? Do you have thoughts to share? (Thanks very much!)
Hey Carole! Glad you found the video interesting. You know, I've had not-so-great experiences with fiber skin heads. They always sound muted to me. I think they were a nice option when plastic frosted heads were dominant, but now that we have Renaissance heads, I think fiber skin is a little outdated. Of course, everyone's ears are different, and you need to chase the sound you want. If you're looking for a muted "plunk", fiber skin might be the ticket!
@@FretlessFury Thank you, Tom......I really appreciate your input! I missed Fiddle Hell last November due to an unexpected hospital visit and will be missing this year, as well, in order to afford the Pisgah. Have you ever taught at Maine Fiddle Camp? It's a wonderful program.....
Hi Tom,
As something different I just bought an SS Stewart Thoroughbred from about 1897. It has a Fiberskyn head, so do you think skin would be best for it? It is from Bernunzio and the say “ it plays very very well” so with a period bridge from Joel Hooks ( on its way ) we shall see. It is 11.5” so I hope the odd size will be OK.
Cheers
The Roger
I had a Gold Tone banjo ukulele an I changed the head to a his one.
Nice, Sue! My 1924 Gibson banjo uke wears a hide head and it sounds super nice. Banjo ukes are notorious for being harsh, and I find that the hide head mellows it out a bit.
Someone may have already asked, but what about hide vs. Fiberskyn?
Dan....that's a hell of an idea! I'll see what I can do! Best, Tom
Well, i think the hide sounds a little less damped, slightly echoey.
Yeah, I hear more overtones in the hide. This could be desirable or not, depending on your taste. Thanks for the comment.
A very good review.
On my banjo hide and mylar sound much more different. But the gospel message stays the same: mylar = more clear & responsive, including the rich overtones. Hide is mellow, "plunky", but a bit less "rich tones". The varying humidity response of a natural hide could be a nasty issue.
Thanks for this carefully recorded comparancy
Tom's opinion on the "plastic" sounding mylar head: i strongly disagree !
Remo and 5star e.o. make very excellent, balanced and rich sounding (drum)heads.
Yup, that's totally valid and I don't disagree! Thanks for stopping by and giving a listen!
Yes, I hear you! Horses for courses....and the beauty is everyone hears a little differently. Glad we have so many choices as banjo players! Best to you, Tom
Actually, I like the Renaissance better. To my ears, I couldn't hear everything evenly with the hide one. The Ren was much more clear. Of course, THIS is why there are different types of heads...personal preference.
Nice post! Yes, I agree. Different tones for different ears. One of the reasons I love the banjo so much!
fentonjames I like it more too. I think hide is really best for old minstrel era styles. It seems from my experience hide doesn’t suit well to projecting certain tones on more colorful pieces. I really like the hide though too.
I have John Balch heads on three of my banjos, two from Chuck Lee and the other an Ome. They all, in my opinion, sound better than with plastic heads. I have one banjo that I prefer with an Elite head, it’s a Ramsey Tubaphone.
It also depends on each banjo. Iv got a old vega that's sounds wonderful with a regular coated remo head. How you got one tightened depends too.
Mylar: bright with good color. Function over Form.
Hide: muddy. Form over Function.
If you want to be cool, Hide.
If you want good sound, Mylar.
Hmmmm...I don't think that really comes into play here, especially after doing some blind tests here in the studio. This comment is off the mark.
@@FretlessFury Wish, I had been in the studio, I might agree. I can only go with what I heard hear on RUclips.
I agree the hide head sound a little better. For me the bassier notes were richer. For the ethical reasons you mentioned I would never buy one though. I`ve gone kind of soft on the critters in my old age. Great tune BTW and playing!
Hey Dan, I totally understand where you're coming from with your ethical concerns. Thanks for watching, and commenting!
Don't worry about the animals. The cow's dead and doesn't need its skin anymore...
The Plastic Banjo head holds tune better, big plus.
It's an advantage no doubt! Thanks for chiming in.
@@FretlessFury Also the Plastic Banjo head as a much crisper sound than the Natural Skin Head. Plastic Banjo Heads are made essentially like Drum Heads & they make a drum dial:ruclips.net/video/E7u8-rS4Asg/видео.html you can use to tune the head more evenly.
I prefer the hide head but there's no way I could bring myself to stretch animal skin over my banjo so I'll stick to man made. It's not like I can really play well anyway.
I totally respect that choice! Incidentally, the heads I use are sourced from places where the animals live happy lives and are well cared for. There are no chemicals used, and the hides themselves would otherwise go to waste. This still does not in any way take away from your excellent point, although I would add that plastic heads have their own ethical and environmental costs. It's a tricky, and nuanced subject, and I don't think there is any one right way to think about it. Cheers to you! Tom
to me the hide head has more depth and sounds better to my ear. All my banjo's have Renaissance heads.
I think the rotation of your body could be a big factor.
The mic is 18" away and off-axis to the bridge, which helps to mitigate slight variations in position. I think the bottom line for me is that in the room the heads sound very different. The video illustrates that real well I think.
@@FretlessFury Great video! I always enjoy your stuff and I've learned a ton.
I was finally able to sit down with headphones and watch/ listen through a few times totally agree with your assessment as well as all the comments above. I recently moved from Ren heads to hides on my two main players and really enjoy the warmth and roundness they've added to the tone.
But to tag on to Mike on the Mandolin's comment, I noticed the slight variation in body position relative to the mic my second time through that might be contributing to what I'm hearing as more "airy-ness" in the recording on the hide head side. Not so much in the instrument but the sound of the recording itself, if that makes sense. As dynamic and sensitive as the banjo can be, I've found that changes in my posture or the direction I'm facing in the room affect the overall sound of the "room".
Just the observations of a long time stereo nerd and aspiring banjo player. And again, amazing video as always. Thanks for all you do!
@@jasonelliott8253 Hey Jason, Thanks for your comment. A perfect consistency in posture would not be possible due to the fact that I had to change heads, strings, retune etc between takes. I did tape the floor, and measure 18" from bridge to mic in an attempt to get my positioning consistent between takes. Mic positioning is a big deal in recording, and could account for the difference in sound, but I can confirm that the recording reflects what I'm hearing in the room, including the "airiness" you describe. The transients are softer with the goat hide too, which could account for it sounding more "distant". I'm actually surprised folks are picking up on the minute change in posture before pointing out that these are completely different performances, which is the real flaw of the comparison. Until I hire staff, unearth a cloning device, and invent a time continuum disruptor, we'll have to settle for this imperfect comparison.
@@FretlessFury Thanks for the reply. And to be clear, my previous comment was not a knock on the quality of the recordings but just the observation of an audiophile that used to do a lot of critical listening to all kinds of stuff just for the fun of it.
All of your content is top notch and this one is especially good for a bunch of reasons, but mostly because it does such a good job of showcasing the differences between the two heads. Not an easy thing to do while trying to keep all the possible variables in check, especially without the help of some next level sci-fi technology.
Your descriptions above and in the video are very similar to what I've heard since switching to hides. My two banjos are quite different, 11" Tubaphone and 12" Dobson, but the hides have done the same kinda magic to their respective voices. It'd be hard to go back to plastic, but we'll see how things fare once the weather starts to change.
I look forward to hearing how things go with your setup as time goes on.
Thanks again and keep up the great work!
To anyone else trying to hear the difference: hide the banjo and label with your hand, close your eyes and try to guess.
Definitely prefer the sound of the skin. It's a richer sound.
Me too, Jim! Thanks for the comment.
I’ll take the plastic head any day.
A lot of folks agree, Native. I do like the fact that they're impervious to the elements. For travel, you can't beat plastic.
Raw hide just sounds better.
I agree! Thanks for watching!
@@FretlessFury you just convinced me that I need to replace my mylar head. Thanks for the comparison!
I steered away from hide heads...
Hey, I'm not trying to cow you into going hide.
A plastic head is approved by the animal community for sure.
Totally! Nice to have options, and Renaissance heads sound so good.
golden age of Banjos... unless you're left handed.
There's never been a better time to be a left handed banjo player, Rebecca! With so many wonderful builders, you can commission anything you like. I've had many southpaws over the years, and they've all managed to find exquisite instruments. Good luck in your search!
It seems more natural and ethical to have a hide-head rather than a mylar-head on your banjo. Leather will biodegrade safely without damaging our planet. At least with hide-heads, much less of the beautiful creatures harvested for their bodily resources will be wasted.
On the plus-side, the hide-head had a pleasant, and very rich tone, not over emphasizing the highs or the lows. It's more expensive to buy, but it is more costly to Earth? I think we can all agree it is not.
This was my thought too, Jason. Awesome post!
Helps the local economy also.
He's smaller in one clip.
I don't hear any different.
I feel like the Mylar gives a really clear clean tone, but the hide add something that the Mylar doesn't. It almost feels like there is a bit more resonance or reverbyness, it also has a much less sharp attack and a warmer tone. The hide definitely feels more like what a banjo should sound like (in my head). But the Mylar also does have a nice sharpness and brightness that the hide doesn't.