I'm pretty sure I will never do anything close to this precision. But I sit here intrigued, captivated, absorbed, fascinated, and entertained by the level of experience, expertise, and knowledge of your work. I have manually machined hundreds of parts and pieces but watching you is awesome!!!
Thank you again for sharing not only your machining but most importantly your thoughts on how to solve difficult problems in subtractive manufacturing.
Ah, another one of these Swiss cheese oil and gas parts. Those fittings are similar to cone and thread fittings, which as you said are used for very high pressures. The taper on the tubing is slightly less than 60 degrees, so the two surfaces theoretically intersect along a single circular line, allowing for very high sealing pressures with relatively low torque. These are typically rated for up to 60,000 psi, but some specialty fittings can handle up to 150,000 psi.
Man I was just checking your channel yesterday thinking he hasn't made a video in a while. Glad to see you're still at it. I was Mfg. Mngr. at W.L. Doffing Co. for a little over a decade and not too many people do what we do much less bring it to this audience. Love your content. At WLD I was spoiled. I had a team of tool and cutter grinders and a nice EDM Dept. We would grind the Autoclave tools to do the thread minor and floor angle and top chamfer in one shot and on the narrow angle intersecting holes, drill up to the intersection and burn the bottom out on the Sinker EDM with a Teflon guide bushing. Please do not think twice about repeating yourself with content. Every part poses it's own unique challenges and it's entertaining/educational to hear your thought process on getting past those challenges. Our community needs more people like you Dude! Thank you.
Watching this channel for a while and judging from the parts Edge Precision is regularly asked to make, my impression is that this style of engineering is very prevalent in the oil drilling industry. 🙂
@@mattgregory1239 It seems like that you see this as something wrong or abnormal? Walking into the golden tower where the technical draftsman (CAD Guys ... for the young puppies) live and asking: "Are you drunk?", or "REALLY?!" is absolutely normal. That process is called "giving feedback", "active exchange" or simply "teamwork". (Hehehehehe) My apologies for the joke, but nobodies perfect and the process of working together with the designer(that back an forth with the taste of working with absolutely clueless people) is usually something normal, simply part of the job and even life itself. And especially with prototypes: $hit happens. Hey, and today we have phones to call back immediately and ask if he or she was drunk!:) I am talking about company internal madness, not external contract work, here. Which of course, every single mistake gets billed, the one (more cost) or the other way (takes longer):)
And this is what keeps me coming back to your channel. I always walk away learning something new and for that I am very grateful, thank you. Can’t wait to see the machining process.
Welcome back and please don`t be concerned as to repeating one`s self task wise. As all you work iI find is first class, well thourght out and inspiring to me anyway. To be honest that's all that concerns me, as to my learning curve. My tasks are in no way whatsoever or in any way so complicated or interesting as your task always are. The most complex of mine are just a few holes, a few pins or spindles required upon my modeling interests as to materials employed, well much of what is in Brass, titanium rod and white metal. There again I may attempt to modify a milling cutter or grind a tool from a small section of a TIG welding tungsten rod or even attempt to regrind an insert that has been chipped or to a form required. Finding all you do is so fascinatingly interesting. Thank you, take care too.
You sir are a machining master.. I have a very complicated love/hate relationship with machining fiddly stuff like that.. on one hand I love it when things work out as planned and makes me think I'm a genious.. on the other hand when my plan fails I just want to cry.. huge respect for taking such work!!
All that I want is information, to learn something new. When you pop up, I turn up the volume. My thinking is very unique, your experience, your intellect, is well absorbed sir. Thank you..
Hello, every time I see your projects I think about how free engineers feel knowing that there are people like you to do their crazy things. The comment among my colleagues is, we have another god level machining video to enjoy. thanks totally.
Really nice plan, and great thoughts! Consider radially surfacing the 5deg port bottom with a square end mill. Custom ground is better but ive got away with it when lead times on tooling where bad
My plan would be to drill and plug the straight hole through hole first as you could use a pin punch to drive the sacrificial rod pieces back out if necessary. All good fun.
I've done something similar more than a decade ago on a deep drilling machine, IMSA 1250 BBLL (made in Italy), and the part was half of a mould (German automotive client); you brought back memories with that intersection at 6:00 don't remember if they were Ø8mm or Ø12mm, but it was quite a nightmare because I had one shot only without breaking any parts inside (talking about more than 1mt x 1mt x 0.6mt of 1.2738 or 1.2311 steel). Managed to do so with, if I recall properly, aluminum rods I've previously turned to have a bit of initial slack till three quarters of the length and then pushed it with force for it to fit as the last part was precise, with the very last part slightly bigger than the drilled hole. The back of the aluminum rod had an internal thread to pull it out. Very low feed and spindle speed during the intersection as it was cutting soft and hard material in an unsupported manner...
I was thinking the holes would be drilled in the other order - but then realised that would leave the support rod end still inside the part with no way to remove it. I am not a smart man. Thanks for the videos. Stay safe out there.
Very awesome to see you, Mr. Peter, love your content.!❤ will you be showing the drilling operations on that part?? Would love to see how those rods work down the holes. HOW”S MEXICO GOIN😊??
Thanks for doing another great video Peter! I know you dont like to add feeds and speeds but i will appreciate if you could add some for the gun drills because i never gun drilled before. I know they differ upon the conditions and would like to get this details if possible.
That is a very interesting part to fabricate. The next video should be a good one. I like the way you solve the various problems the part presents. KOKO!
Some interesting parts there. I would not like the pressure with the what ifs - (i.e. ruining the expensive, already partially machined parts and Titanium). The planning and experience of anticipating any potential problems, thanks to your great brain, will no doubt make it just a bit of a challenge for you. Can't wait to see the machining !
For us up and coming: when you get a job like this, how much lead time do you tell the customer? With setup and grinding form tools is it weeks? Or do you have open terms as long as you are making progress? Very insightful, thank you as always for the wisdom
If concerned you could always drill and tap a hole into the large face pocket stock that will be removed later when you mill the feature. Use this hole to secure a narror piece of flat bar that you have slotted a bit over your rod diamter to allow room for the angle of the holes. Have one or two setscrews perpendicular to the slot across where you can pinch and hold the rod tight. I am sure one narrow slotted clamp could be designed to accommodate both holes to hold the rod secure. This would ensure the rod is just held in place and no chance of it rotating and still have easy removal afterwards.
I run into those fittings on waterjets, those intersections are pretty nasty, i hate having to make deep intersections at a good cross angle much less that shallow. Always great to see a video from you, cant wait to see more on this. Btw i wonder if a little superglue would be adequate to hold the fillers, then do the final bore to remove any residues
Hadn't even thought of the coolant trying to push the rods out, I was just wondering if the drill was going to end up spinning the drill rod when it made contact. I imagine your solution will avoid both of those problems. A few of these features would cause me some stress on their own. Combining them on a part that was provided and that the customer already has money into would keep me up at night.
You have probably got it any way but clamp rod ends together or in a specialy machined end plate extension, to stop roration -jamming when maching. Always interesting stuff thanks.
Nice video. Really like how you thinking and planning it. How you have to take in to account so many factors. I was thinking if you drill the longer hole first, put sacrificial part in it, and drill the angle hole. But the you will may endup with part of that rod stuck inside. Btw, I had recurring job with 2 intersecting holes, that alway give me some issues. Then I saw your video on sacryficial part, and use that idea. It killed many birds with one stone. Can hold part better (part is 0.150 x .130) and hole are clean (no secondary scraping necessary), so thank you very much for sharing the knowledge
I think if I put a kind of bend/kink some ware in the rod. So when I drive it in the friction should be enough to hold it in place. If for some reason that doesn’t work maybe a short straight knurl on the last say 1/2” to grab on to the top of the hole. I don’t really know yet, but I would like to keep it as simple as possible.
Wonderful content Peter. I recognize your challenges and love and learn your fixes. I don't own a fifth axis so I would have to build a fixture first for all the angled holes and I'm not sure if have the z reach on my machines to clear the part from the drills. And it would be a tight butt exercise. Coolant? Please don't jam, please don't dwell on the inserted rod, kind of deal. I know you worry a bit if all goes well but repeating an extra part on the Mazak helps to vary a little along and maybe still make money on the parts. In a conventional manner it's more high risk. I would certainly start with extra stock and add one or two to the amount to deliver (depending on the size of the order and the presumed risk for not succeeding on the first one). Thank you Peter! (How does your remodelled car behave and the milled anvills?)
I am thinking some sort of endcap to act as a guide bushing for the gun drill to get it started on location, and an end cap with the drill rod attached to it with some sort of jacking screws / wrench flats to remove after the op. Maybe there is some way to utilize some of the required hole locations with sacrificial undersize taps to hold the cap. It would definitely would take some planning. Good luck. Cool part.
I will be starting the gun drills with a starting pilot hole. I did think about what you’re talking about. But for two parts it’s to much work I decided. Besides the rods to plug the holes come out at different angles that would not allow the end guide plate to just be jacked off without first removing them.
It could. But it may be hard to remove them after. But that does give me an idea. Because there is a larger drilled hole where the rods go in at the parts face. So I could do something in that material that gets machined away there. Such as drilling a hole for a small pin in that area.
Kinda curious, whats your stance on customer supplied stock or in this case customer supplied parts where this is already turned and now you have to work on it? These parts seem like it would be a breeze for you to have made from raw in like 2 setups and know everything is true to itself.
I had thought to drill and ream with a tapered reamer. Then split it with a fine jeweler saw a little. Then drive a tapered pin in the end to hold it in place. Or maybe even knurl the end for a slight interference fit would also work.
@@EdgePrecision maybe use a countersunk screw and a thread to expand the rod. Is definitely easier to remove than a tapered pin, and doesn't scratch up the surface of the bore if you use a knurled end.
@@Roetz40 The top of these holes have a larger hole. So if there is any damage to the top of the hole. It will be machined away. So damage to the top of the hole would not be a problem. So a straight knurl on the end of the rod might be a good way. Just drive the rod into the hole with about 1/2” sticking out. Then to get it out use the slide hammer with the vise-grip pliers to pull it out.
Nice challenge! Do you have an endoscopic camera to look at these intersections once finished? WIthout these drill rods that you plan to use, i would also expect quite serious problems with "push over burrs". With the rods it should be way better. Would be extremely interesting to see the intersections. But: What if the intersections will be in need of deburring? Deburring done by the guys of centerline? :)
Yes the deburr guys here have a lot of experience at this. These parts are simple compared to some they do. And yes we have scopes to go into the holes.
at 7:01 I don't quite understand argument for drilling shorter angled hole first. In my opinion it would create more misalignment issues for long hole which after meeting with short one, should continue straight for some time still, which could not be happening. If you drill long one first, then put sacrificial filler rod into it and then drill short one to meet in the middle, its misaligning would not be as impactful. Other than that, both are relatively to each other meeting same way, so it should not matter which one first to drill. At least thats my unprofessional opinion :). Cheers!
I’m thinking about putting a short straight knurl on the top end of the rods. Then driving them into the hole with about 1/2” protruding to pull them out.
Thats a really good idea, to fill the holes again with some material, but i would fear that these rods are spining inside the holes, when the drill hit them - did i miss it, or did u plan to use some loctite or something else to fix them? I really wish you, that this strategie is working.
A Gun drills feed very slow. I think if I bend the rod so I have to hammer it lightly into the hole. There will be enough friction holding the rod to prevent it from spinning. Also with a gundrill once the drill starts into the rod. The drills tip (different than a twist drill) will actually keep the rod from spinning.
@@EdgePrecision Yea i use those gun drills (in my language it is called "Einlippenbohrer" what translate to "one lip drill") almost every day too. Its great on machines what have enough coolant pressure. Yes bending the rods at the front end sounds also like a good idea. Im very exited for the nxt video. Is there a special reason u have this 3 jaw chuck in use? Just to save the more expensiv soft jaws for the 4 jaw chuck? Or do you need room for the milling operation?
The 4-jaw is large in diameter. So for clearance on the machines milling spindles face it requires long tools to reach a smaller diameter part. So I put that smaller chuck to get the spindle closer to the part with shorter tools. The milling spindles face is almost 12” in diameter. This is one shortcoming of this type of machine.
@@EdgePrecision I operate some integrex i-200 and -250 machines, which have a similiar layout like yours, so i know the problem. We mostly just change the chuck for smaller parts, but because we use powerclamping and unlike you, i mostly make no single parts, so the work to change one or both chucks is better paid per part.
On this machine if you have a large diameter chuck you have clearance problems with the milling spindle and the chuck face/OD/jaws. When you are milling or turning on the OD of a smaller diameter part. The milling spindles face is almost 12" in diameter. So with the B axis at 90 degrees (Like a vertical Mill) you will hit the chuck with the spindle unless you use long tools. So to avoid having to use excessively long tools for smaller diameter parts. I put a smaller chuck extended out like you see here. Also if you intend to tip the B axis tool back towards the tailstock end of the machine it gives more clearance for the B axis spindle on the left upper end with the machine's enclosure. This is just the nature of this style of machine.
If I bend the rod just right I think there will be enough friction to stop it from rotating. A gun drill feed much slower than a twist drill. Though as a back up I have thought to drill a hole for a small pin off center in the pins holes wall intersection to keep it from rotating. I do have material where the larger holes at the face of the part. We will see. An EDM machine is doable but is much more complicated to align the part to the drill. Unless you have a 5 axis EDM machine. I have never seen such a machine. Maybe it exists. But I have never heard of one.
I assume you are referring to an out of round situation. What I do is indicate it so I have it running the same on each pare of jaws. That avarages out the error.
@@EdgePrecision , not just out of round, the OD was so bad so there was no point to put indicator on it. It had really rough surface (not machined before), a lot of low and high spots. So I decide to measure distance from the end of chuck to jaw and make it the same on each pare. I’ve always worked on 3 jaw hydraulic chuck and just bought new 4 jaws and just started using it, so I thought maybe there is better way to do it
It was originally called SpaceClaim. I have been using it for many years se ve it first came out. I prefer it to other softwares. But that may be because I’m just use to it.
Does the customer even allow recast? I often find myself machining things that would be nice to EDM but am not allowed per customer specifications.@@EdgePrecision
I don’t think the gun drill will leave burs big enough to cause a problem. There feed rate is very low compared to a normal twist drill. Usually only about .0004” per rev.
Use a tail stock with a flat face or another chuck to grab the end. That part ain't going anywhere when milling that way. Save you messing about with clamps.
@EdgePrecision I've made an extension for the tailstock for jobs like this, gives me about 20" so there is clearance. Works for all kind of things, also can attach a chuck for getting things really true when needed.
@@richiejbhoy1888 all that might work on a lathe with turret milling spindles. But on this mill/turn machine you can’t get the spindle down anywhere close to centerline with the tailstock moved in. Its Y axis and spindle will hit the tailstock. I plan to mill the OD with the endmill parallel to the turning spindle’s centerline using the C axis. Also I can’t do the end work as well.
It's just the software I have used for many years and I'm use to it. Actually the software that I use was originally called SpaceClaim before Ansys bought it. It has certain things I like (Or maybe I am use to) over say Fusion or SolidWorks. It's not really a parametric (Though it can be) software. There is no rebuilding or say a tree of sketches required so you just model on a solid but you can use a sketch but once you extrude or cut with it it is no longer there. But you can define the model with dimensions, also if you make a drawing of your model/part if you change a dimension on the drawing it updates the model. If that makes sense. You can also just change the model by moving things without any problem. There is no going back and changing sketches and having rebuild errors because the sketches are no longer there. Other software's do the same thing just in a different way. Like I said I have been using it for the last 15-20 or so years (I think).
It's nice to see another machinist taking things to the turbo autist level that normies can never achieve. People like us are the cobalt binder of society.
What's with the designs. who designs this stuff. do they even have any experience making anything like this or is it just wishful thinking. do they think you can do anything?
I say the same thing,some of these engineers sit in front of the computer with a cad software and design anything any shape they like not thinking about the machining side of things.
they have to pay for designing such difficult parts! there has to be consequences for the burden of their inexperience . Otherwise they will not learn and continue to be an exorbitant expense until they are finally fired.
Some parts need to have certain features . in the old days they would do a few zig zag holes to make the connections , and plug the technological holes . But now we can do more intricate parts . Of course stupid designs do exist.
*Abstract* This video discusses the planning and challenges involved in milling titanium and 174 pH stainless steel parts. The speaker focuses on workholding strategies to ensure part stability during machining, especially when milling a keyway feature. A major challenge arises from intersecting gun-drilled holes with minimal drill support due to shallow angles. The solution involves a novel technique of inserting drill rod as temporary support during the drilling process. Additionally, the video covers the design and manufacturing considerations for custom tooling needed to create specific part features, such as undercuts and high-pressure ports. The operational order is outlined, and the video concludes by highlighting the key challenges and previewing the upcoming setup and machining demonstration. *Summary* *Introduction* * Speaker will not repeat previously made content. * Aims to provide new, valuable information for viewers. *Job Introduction* * Two titanium parts, two 174 pH stainless parts to be milled. * Concerned about existing chuck holding strength for part shape. * Plans to add clamping system across flange as well as continue chucking. * Planning stage of job, focus on gun drilling process due to potential issues with hole intersections. * Will push drill rod as support during intersecting drills. *CAD Model Examination (174 pH part)* * 00:04:00 Plans to remove OD to form key shape. * 00:04:30 Counterbore and holes on part end likely done with chuck as-is. * 00:05:00 Plans to mill OD near flange with long end mill while rotating C-axis, then square sides later. * 00:05:30 Concerned about manual chuck holding power during the process, will add clamps. * 00:06:00 Issue due to intersecting gun-drilled holes at a slight angle with little support for drill tip. * 00:07:00 Plan to drill short hole, insert drill rod, then drill other hole. Rod should support intersection point. * 00:08:00 Same logic for other intersecting holes * 00:08:30 Special tools needed for autoclave engineering ports: * Threaded port with a tapered area for conical tube tip to create high-pressure metal-metal seal. * Will make end mill to create 5-degree taper in part as per specs. * 00:10:00 Some ports have closed tolerances and will be bored later, other features are straightforward * 00:10:30 Intersecting hole arrangement causes complexity. Must drill in correct order to avoid breaking drills. *CAD Model Continued* * 00:11:00 Further detailing of how intersecting angled holes create issues * 00:11:30 Unsure of customer's plan for high-pressure sealing at other end of part. * 00:12:00 Small angled holes near ports are for leak detection * 00:12:30 Blue holes are for a spanner wrench * 00:12:30 First operation will be on part face with keyway milling * 00:13:00 Five axis machine better for angled holes, simplifies positioning using offsets etc. * 00:13:30 Will first drill holes where orange slugs appear in model, then support with drill rod, then drill remaining intersecting holes. * 00:14:00 High-pressure coolant at 1500 PSI may push out support rods * 00:14:30 Potential solutions for holding support rods (bending, banding, etc) being considered. *Pulling out support rods* * 00:15:00 Plan to leave drill rod slightly exposed for removal * Will use vice grips attached to a slide hammer to extract * Believes friction, combined with a bent rod shape, will prevent coolant from dislodging them *Additional Tooling Needed* * 00:15:30 Part has a pocket with an unknown function * 00:16:00 Requires custom tool due to undercut feature * Speaker drew up design for a cutter, to be ground * Option to purchase this type of tool maybe exists but grinding is easier in this case *Operational Order* * 00:16:30 First operations will focus on milling both parts on one end * Parts then flipped, chucked on new diameters, and aligned using keys (internal or external) to establish reference point * 00:17:00 Work continues on the opposite end: ports, various holes *Key Challenges and Wrap-up* * 00:17:30 The main challenge is intersecting holes causing insufficient drill support (risk of breakage) * This is due to the very shallow angles of intersection * 00:18:00 Next video will cover setup, programming, and the actual machining process Disclaimer: I used gemini ultra 1.0 (2024.02.08) to summarize the video transcript. This method may make mistakes in recognizing words and it can't distinguish between speakers.
Watched many videos from this guy, super talented. But please clean up that workshop, looks like a bomb 💣 has gone off. You must work alone I guess. Great content otherwise
Had to laugh when you said “straight forward” . That part is a beast to us mortal machinists 🙂
I'm pretty sure I will never do anything close to this precision. But I sit here intrigued, captivated, absorbed, fascinated, and entertained by the level of experience, expertise, and knowledge of your work. I have manually machined hundreds of parts and pieces but watching you is awesome!!!
Thank you again for sharing not only your machining but most importantly your thoughts on how to solve difficult problems in subtractive manufacturing.
This is nearly unreal what you are able to do. Thanks for sharing your skills.
Ah, another one of these Swiss cheese oil and gas parts. Those fittings are similar to cone and thread fittings, which as you said are used for very high pressures. The taper on the tubing is slightly less than 60 degrees, so the two surfaces theoretically intersect along a single circular line, allowing for very high sealing pressures with relatively low torque. These are typically rated for up to 60,000 psi, but some specialty fittings can handle up to 150,000 psi.
I still don't see why the holes need to be at those weird angles.I'd sack those engineers for making life so difficult.😂
Seeing how you are going to handle the intersecting holes is really helpful. Charles
Man I was just checking your channel yesterday thinking he hasn't made a video in a while. Glad to see you're still at it. I was Mfg. Mngr. at W.L. Doffing Co. for a little over a decade and not too many people do what we do much less bring it to this audience. Love your content. At WLD I was spoiled. I had a team of tool and cutter grinders and a nice EDM Dept. We would grind the Autoclave tools to do the thread minor and floor angle and top chamfer in one shot and on the narrow angle intersecting holes, drill up to the intersection and burn the bottom out on the Sinker EDM with a Teflon guide bushing. Please do not think twice about repeating yourself with content. Every part poses it's own unique challenges and it's entertaining/educational to hear your thought process on getting past those challenges. Our community needs more people like you Dude! Thank you.
I hope we get to see you grinding the tools and making these parts! Appreciate all the content you put out, always things to learn!
I always love it when you receive a drawing/model from a designer who has never made anything in their lives. Anything can be done in SOLIDWORKS
In this case I had to model the parts from their drawings. There were no provided models.
@@EdgePrecision even more classic. I hope that gets added to the quoting process
@@mattgregory1239 - Whether it's specific charge or not, an experienced machinist considers that in their total bid/invoice for the job.
Watching this channel for a while and judging from the parts Edge Precision is regularly asked to make, my impression is that this style of engineering is very prevalent in the oil drilling industry. 🙂
@@mattgregory1239 It seems like that you see this as something wrong or abnormal?
Walking into the golden tower where the technical draftsman (CAD Guys ... for the young puppies) live and asking: "Are you drunk?", or "REALLY?!" is absolutely normal. That process is called "giving feedback", "active exchange" or simply "teamwork". (Hehehehehe)
My apologies for the joke, but nobodies perfect and the process of working together with the designer(that back an forth with the taste of working with absolutely clueless people) is usually something normal, simply part of the job and even life itself. And especially with prototypes: $hit happens. Hey, and today we have phones to call back immediately and ask if he or she was drunk!:)
I am talking about company internal madness, not external contract work, here. Which of course, every single mistake gets billed, the one (more cost) or the other way (takes longer):)
And this is what keeps me coming back to your channel. I always walk away learning something new and for that I am very grateful, thank you. Can’t wait to see the machining process.
Welcome back and please don`t be concerned as to repeating one`s self task wise. As all you work iI find is first class, well thourght out and inspiring to me anyway. To be honest that's all that concerns me, as to my learning curve. My tasks are in no way whatsoever or in any way so complicated or interesting as your task always are.
The most complex of mine are just a few holes, a few pins or spindles required upon my modeling interests as to materials employed, well much of what is in Brass, titanium rod and white metal.
There again I may attempt to modify a milling cutter or grind a tool from a small section of a TIG welding tungsten rod or even attempt to regrind an insert that has been chipped or to a form required.
Finding all you do is so fascinatingly interesting. Thank you, take care too.
Most well explained machining channel on the Net. Legend
I don't mind you going over something you've done previously. You are an incredible machinist.
This is triggering my machining anxiety🤣. It is however great to see a true expert working.
Hi Peter, another involved plan. Really enjoy your take on how to. I hope the filler rod doesn't spin, the bend will be enough. Good luck.
You sir are a machining master.. I have a very complicated love/hate relationship with machining fiddly stuff like that.. on one hand I love it when things work out as planned and makes me think I'm a genious.. on the other hand when my plan fails I just want to cry.. huge respect for taking such work!!
Really cool that you share this. I hope you show grinding the special tools as well.
All that I want is information, to learn something new. When you pop up, I turn up the volume. My thinking is very unique, your experience, your intellect, is well absorbed sir. Thank you..
Good to see you back. Water jets use a metal to metal taper seal like that. They run from 40 to 900000 psi.
Great content. The jobs you show are interesting and I can usually learn an interesting tip
next level job! look forward to seeing the machining
Hello, every time I see your projects I think about how free engineers feel knowing that there are people like you to do their crazy things.
The comment among my colleagues is, we have another god level machining video to enjoy.
thanks totally.
This is a good birthday gift. Thanks!
Nice to see people that understand the forces in play... some people would just go with it and not understand why a drill was detonating
Thanks Peter, very good info.
Impressive part, especially those long holes which meet eachother.
Really nice plan, and great thoughts! Consider radially surfacing the 5deg port bottom with a square end mill. Custom ground is better but ive got away with it when lead times on tooling where bad
My plan would be to drill and plug the straight hole through hole first as you could use a pin punch to drive the sacrificial rod pieces back out if necessary.
All good fun.
I've done something similar more than a decade ago on a deep drilling machine, IMSA 1250 BBLL (made in Italy), and the part was half of a mould (German automotive client); you brought back memories with that intersection at 6:00 don't remember if they were Ø8mm or Ø12mm, but it was quite a nightmare because I had one shot only without breaking any parts inside (talking about more than 1mt x 1mt x 0.6mt of 1.2738 or 1.2311 steel). Managed to do so with, if I recall properly, aluminum rods I've previously turned to have a bit of initial slack till three quarters of the length and then pushed it with force for it to fit as the last part was precise, with the very last part slightly bigger than the drilled hole. The back of the aluminum rod had an internal thread to pull it out. Very low feed and spindle speed during the intersection as it was cutting soft and hard material in an unsupported manner...
Great plan. Can't wait to see action 😊
Fascinating! Thank you.
Glad to see you doing good
I was thinking the holes would be drilled in the other order - but then realised that would leave the support rod end still inside the part with no way to remove it. I am not a smart man. Thanks for the videos. Stay safe out there.
Very awesome to see you, Mr. Peter, love your content.!❤ will you be showing the drilling operations on that part?? Would love to see how those rods work down the holes. HOW”S MEXICO GOIN😊??
Another possibility for holding in the drill rod would be to super glue them in. After the machining a soak in acetone would dissolve the glue.
Mind blown!🤯
Welcome back.. been waiting
What an interesting part I will be most interested is seeing how all the machining works.
Good morning brad this video are educational about machine shop...
Good to hear your alive Peter. Give us an update on Mexico when you’ve chance
Thanks for doing another great video Peter! I know you dont like to add feeds and speeds but i will appreciate if you could add some for the gun drills because i never gun drilled before. I know they differ upon the conditions and would like to get this details if possible.
That is a very interesting part to fabricate. The next video should be a good one. I like the way you solve the various problems the part presents. KOKO!
Some interesting parts there. I would not like the pressure with the what ifs - (i.e. ruining the expensive, already partially machined parts and Titanium). The planning and experience of anticipating any potential problems, thanks to your great brain, will no doubt make it just a bit of a challenge for you. Can't wait to see the machining !
thanks for the video, we are waiting for the continuation.
For us up and coming: when you get a job like this, how much lead time do you tell the customer? With setup and grinding form tools is it weeks? Or do you have open terms as long as you are making progress? Very insightful, thank you as always for the wisdom
hi ,Pete nice job 😀
If concerned you could always drill and tap a hole into the large face pocket stock that will be removed later when you mill the feature. Use this hole to secure a narror piece of flat bar that you have slotted a bit over your rod diamter to allow room for the angle of the holes. Have one or two setscrews perpendicular to the slot across where you can pinch and hold the rod tight. I am sure one narrow slotted clamp could be designed to accommodate both holes to hold the rod secure. This would ensure the rod is just held in place and no chance of it rotating and still have easy removal afterwards.
I run into those fittings on waterjets, those intersections are pretty nasty, i hate having to make deep intersections at a good cross angle much less that shallow. Always great to see a video from you, cant wait to see more on this. Btw i wonder if a little superglue would be adequate to hold the fillers, then do the final bore to remove any residues
Hadn't even thought of the coolant trying to push the rods out, I was just wondering if the drill was going to end up spinning the drill rod when it made contact. I imagine your solution will avoid both of those problems.
A few of these features would cause me some stress on their own. Combining them on a part that was provided and that the customer already has money into would keep me up at night.
You have probably got it any way but clamp rod ends together or in a specialy machined end plate extension, to stop roration -jamming when maching. Always interesting stuff thanks.
What about welding something to the end of the sacrificial rod that will keep it located/not spin. Also will help to get it out.
Nice video. Really like how you thinking and planning it. How you have to take in to account so many factors. I was thinking if you drill the longer hole first, put sacrificial part in it, and drill the angle hole. But the you will may endup with part of that rod stuck inside. Btw, I had recurring job with 2 intersecting holes, that alway give me some issues. Then I saw your video on sacryficial part, and use that idea. It killed many birds with one stone. Can hold part better (part is 0.150 x .130) and hole are clean (no secondary scraping necessary), so thank you very much for sharing the knowledge
Lovely to see your thought process on parts - Any plan on how to hold the drill rod in place? Or is that of little concern?
I think if I put a kind of bend/kink some ware in the rod. So when I drive it in the friction should be enough to hold it in place. If for some reason that doesn’t work maybe a short straight knurl on the last say 1/2” to grab on to the top of the hole. I don’t really know yet, but I would like to keep it as simple as possible.
At first seeing these holes i thought wtf. But as you explaining it seems sooooo easy 😂😂 nooot
Wonderful content Peter. I recognize your challenges and love and learn your fixes. I don't own a fifth axis so I would have to build a fixture first for all the angled holes and I'm not sure if have the z reach on my machines to clear the part from the drills. And it would be a tight butt exercise. Coolant? Please don't jam, please don't dwell on the inserted rod, kind of deal. I know you worry a bit if all goes well but repeating an extra part on the Mazak helps to vary a little along and maybe still make money on the parts. In a conventional manner it's more high risk. I would certainly start with extra stock and add one or two to the amount to deliver (depending on the size of the order and the presumed risk for not succeeding on the first one). Thank you Peter! (How does your remodelled car behave and the milled anvills?)
I am thinking some sort of endcap to act as a guide bushing for the gun drill to get it started on location, and an end cap with the drill rod attached to it with some sort of jacking screws / wrench flats to remove after the op. Maybe there is some way to utilize some of the required hole locations with sacrificial undersize taps to hold the cap. It would definitely would take some planning. Good luck. Cool part.
I will be starting the gun drills with a starting pilot hole. I did think about what you’re talking about. But for two parts it’s to much work I decided. Besides the rods to plug the holes come out at different angles that would not allow the end guide plate to just be jacked off without first removing them.
If that is a standard autoclave iscar sell a tool that does thread, 5° flat and the 60° all in one.
"it's pretty convenient to do on a five axis machine"
Classic :-)
Great see that you are still making the engineers look good. would Loctite bearing lock work for holding plug rods?
It could. But it may be hard to remove them after. But that does give me an idea. Because there is a larger drilled hole where the rods go in at the parts face. So I could do something in that material that gets machined away there. Such as drilling a hole for a small pin in that area.
Kinda curious, whats your stance on customer supplied stock or in this case customer supplied parts where this is already turned and now you have to work on it? These parts seem like it would be a breeze for you to have made from raw in like 2 setups and know everything is true to itself.
Ждём продолжения.
good vieo Peter
Good grief, that looks like a nightmare. You sir, are a wizard.
Could you use an epoxy or low melting point solder in the c’bores to hold the drill rod in place? It may be difficult to clean out afterwards though.
Reminded me of the old adage: 7 P's
Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance😊
Just out of curiosity, won't it be easy to 3d print such intricate parts ?
Make a cap that fits over the end to hold the rod in place?
Considering the slugs:maybe cut one end open with a band saw and drive a wedge in there once they're inserted?
I had thought to drill and ream with a tapered reamer. Then split it with a fine jeweler saw a little. Then drive a tapered pin in the end to hold it in place. Or maybe even knurl the end for a slight interference fit would also work.
@@EdgePrecision maybe use a countersunk screw and a thread to expand the rod. Is definitely easier to remove than a tapered pin, and doesn't scratch up the surface of the bore if you use a knurled end.
@@Roetz40 The top of these holes have a larger hole. So if there is any damage to the top of the hole. It will be machined away. So damage to the top of the hole would not be a problem. So a straight knurl on the end of the rod might be a good way. Just drive the rod into the hole with about 1/2” sticking out. Then to get it out use the slide hammer with the vise-grip pliers to pull it out.
Nice challenge! Do you have an endoscopic camera to look at these intersections once finished? WIthout these drill rods that you plan to use, i would also expect quite serious problems with "push over burrs". With the rods it should be way better. Would be extremely interesting to see the intersections. But: What if the intersections will be in need of deburring? Deburring done by the guys of centerline? :)
Isn't that what interns are for?
:-)
Yes the deburr guys here have a lot of experience at this. These parts are simple compared to some they do. And yes we have scopes to go into the holes.
at 7:01 I don't quite understand argument for drilling shorter angled hole first. In my opinion it would create more misalignment issues for long hole which after meeting with short one, should continue straight for some time still, which could not be happening. If you drill long one first, then put sacrificial filler rod into it and then drill short one to meet in the middle, its misaligning would not be as impactful. Other than that, both are relatively to each other meeting same way, so it should not matter which one first to drill. At least thats my unprofessional opinion :). Cheers!
I miss your video❤❤❤❤
How are you planning to stop the drill rod from rotating when the gun drill hits it? Just hoping the bend will be enough to stop it from rotating?
I’m thinking about putting a short straight knurl on the top end of the rods. Then driving them into the hole with about 1/2” protruding to pull them out.
@@EdgePrecision good thinking
Surprised you didn’t use a plug with a center in it to use the tail stock when you mill the key feature.
I plane to mill the stock around the OD with the endmill parallel to the part rotating the C axis. So that means no tailstock can be used.
Are those holes that come at an angle into the threads incase there is oil in the holes so you can still thread the fitting into it.
They are some kind of high pressure fluid passages.
Thats a really good idea, to fill the holes again with some material, but i would fear that these rods are spining inside the holes, when the drill hit them - did i miss it, or did u plan to use some loctite or something else to fix them? I really wish you, that this strategie is working.
A Gun drills feed very slow. I think if I bend the rod so I have to hammer it lightly into the hole. There will be enough friction holding the rod to prevent it from spinning. Also with a gundrill once the drill starts into the rod. The drills tip (different than a twist drill) will actually keep the rod from spinning.
@@EdgePrecision Yea i use those gun drills (in my language it is called "Einlippenbohrer" what translate to "one lip drill") almost every day too. Its great on machines what have enough coolant pressure.
Yes bending the rods at the front end sounds also like a good idea. Im very exited for the nxt video.
Is there a special reason u have this 3 jaw chuck in use? Just to save the more expensiv soft jaws for the 4 jaw chuck? Or do you need room for the milling operation?
The 4-jaw is large in diameter. So for clearance on the machines milling spindles face it requires long tools to reach a smaller diameter part. So I put that smaller chuck to get the spindle closer to the part with shorter tools. The milling spindles face is almost 12” in diameter. This is one shortcoming of this type of machine.
@@EdgePrecision I operate some integrex i-200 and -250 machines, which have a similiar layout like yours, so i know the problem. We mostly just change the chuck for smaller parts, but because we use powerclamping and unlike you, i mostly make no single parts, so the work to change one or both chucks is better paid per part.
Holding in double chuck. What is the benefits?
On this machine if you have a large diameter chuck you have clearance problems with the milling spindle and the chuck face/OD/jaws. When you are milling or turning on the OD of a smaller diameter part. The milling spindles face is almost 12" in diameter. So with the B axis at 90 degrees (Like a vertical Mill) you will hit the chuck with the spindle unless you use long tools. So to avoid having to use excessively long tools for smaller diameter parts. I put a smaller chuck extended out like you see here. Also if you intend to tip the B axis tool back towards the tailstock end of the machine it gives more clearance for the B axis spindle on the left upper end with the machine's enclosure. This is just the nature of this style of machine.
Won't the drill rods twist with the drill and crack the cutting edge? What about sinker EDM?
If I bend the rod just right I think there will be enough friction to stop it from rotating. A gun drill feed much slower than a twist drill. Though as a back up I have thought to drill a hole for a small pin off center in the pins holes wall intersection to keep it from rotating. I do have material where the larger holes at the face of the part. We will see. An EDM machine is doable but is much more complicated to align the part to the drill. Unless you have a 5 axis EDM machine. I have never seen such a machine. Maybe it exists. But I have never heard of one.
Can I ask you a question. What you do when OD of a stock is really really bad. How u cantering it on 4 jaw chuck?
I assume you are referring to an out of round situation. What I do is indicate it so I have it running the same on each pare of jaws. That avarages out the error.
@@EdgePrecision , not just out of round, the OD was so bad so there was no point to put indicator on it. It had really rough surface (not machined before), a lot of low and high spots. So I decide to measure distance from the end of chuck to jaw and make it the same on each pare. I’ve always worked on 3 jaw hydraulic chuck and just bought new 4 jaws and just started using it, so I thought maybe there is better way to do it
Rather you than me!!
Can you comment on using Ansys software?
It was originally called SpaceClaim. I have been using it for many years se ve it first came out. I prefer it to other softwares. But that may be because I’m just use to it.
I am expecting an interesting drilling process!!!!!!
May be use EDM drill?
Interested if edm drill would move of target
@@thomashoffmann4504 Depends on the intensity of fluid flow through the tube.
But to get the angles you would need a 5axis EDM drill or a lot of fixturing for that machine. And it would take longer with EDM.
Does the customer even allow recast? I often find myself machining things that would be nice to EDM but am not allowed per customer specifications.@@EdgePrecision
@@danielgrebner8412 Sometimes they won't let you thinking it changes materials characteristics.
My biggest fear would be the drill rod removal, burrs can really hang u up.
I don’t think the gun drill will leave burs big enough to cause a problem. There feed rate is very low compared to a normal twist drill. Usually only about .0004” per rev.
Use a tail stock with a flat face or another chuck to grab the end. That part ain't going anywhere when milling that way. Save you messing about with clamps.
The tailstock will get in the way for the milling strategy I plan to use and also doing the end holes in the part.
He was planning on milling the od in XC
@EdgePrecision I've made an extension for the tailstock for jobs like this, gives me about 20" so there is clearance. Works for all kind of things, also can attach a chuck for getting things really true when needed.
@@SUMOCAT86 I'm fully aware of that.
@@richiejbhoy1888 all that might work on a lathe with turret milling spindles. But on this mill/turn machine you can’t get the spindle down anywhere close to centerline with the tailstock moved in. Its Y axis and spindle will hit the tailstock. I plan to mill the OD with the endmill parallel to the turning spindle’s centerline using the C axis. Also I can’t do the end work as well.
Why does that part have to go to 2 shops? Couldn't the first shop finish the job? Why not give it to you for all the ops?
It isn’t I’m in the same shop they were turned on the lathe.
@@EdgePrecisionGotcha. When you said "supplied to me" I understood it incorrectly. Thanks.
Why use Ansys
It's just the software I have used for many years and I'm use to it. Actually the software that I use was originally called SpaceClaim before Ansys bought it. It has certain things I like (Or maybe I am use to) over say Fusion or SolidWorks. It's not really a parametric (Though it can be) software. There is no rebuilding or say a tree of sketches required so you just model on a solid but you can use a sketch but once you extrude or cut with it it is no longer there. But you can define the model with dimensions, also if you make a drawing of your model/part if you change a dimension on the drawing it updates the model. If that makes sense. You can also just change the model by moving things without any problem. There is no going back and changing sketches and having rebuild errors because the sketches are no longer there. Other software's do the same thing just in a different way. Like I said I have been using it for the last 15-20 or so years (I think).
@@EdgePrecision great
It's nice to see another machinist taking things to the turbo autist level that normies can never achieve. People like us are the cobalt binder of society.
What's with the designs. who designs this stuff. do they even have any experience making anything like this
or is it just wishful thinking. do they think you can do anything?
I say the same thing,some of these engineers sit in front of the computer with a cad software and design anything any shape they like not thinking about the machining side of things.
they have to pay for designing such difficult parts! there has to be consequences for the burden of their inexperience . Otherwise they will not learn and continue to be an exorbitant expense until they are finally fired.
Some parts need to have certain features . in the old days they would do a few zig zag holes to make the connections , and plug the technological holes . But now we can do more intricate parts . Of course stupid designs do exist.
*Abstract*
This video discusses the planning and challenges involved in milling
titanium and 174 pH stainless steel parts. The speaker focuses on
workholding strategies to ensure part stability during machining,
especially when milling a keyway feature. A major challenge arises
from intersecting gun-drilled holes with minimal drill support due to
shallow angles. The solution involves a novel technique of inserting
drill rod as temporary support during the drilling
process. Additionally, the video covers the design and manufacturing
considerations for custom tooling needed to create specific part
features, such as undercuts and high-pressure ports. The operational
order is outlined, and the video concludes by highlighting the key
challenges and previewing the upcoming setup and machining
demonstration.
*Summary*
*Introduction*
* Speaker will not repeat previously made content.
* Aims to provide new, valuable information for viewers.
*Job Introduction*
* Two titanium parts, two 174 pH stainless parts to be milled.
* Concerned about existing chuck holding strength for part shape.
* Plans to add clamping system across flange as well as continue chucking.
* Planning stage of job, focus on gun drilling process due to potential issues with hole intersections.
* Will push drill rod as support during intersecting drills.
*CAD Model Examination (174 pH part)*
* 00:04:00 Plans to remove OD to form key shape.
* 00:04:30 Counterbore and holes on part end likely done with chuck as-is.
* 00:05:00 Plans to mill OD near flange with long end mill while rotating C-axis, then square sides later.
* 00:05:30 Concerned about manual chuck holding power during the process, will add clamps.
* 00:06:00 Issue due to intersecting gun-drilled holes at a slight angle with little support for drill tip.
* 00:07:00 Plan to drill short hole, insert drill rod, then drill other hole. Rod should support intersection point.
* 00:08:00 Same logic for other intersecting holes
* 00:08:30 Special tools needed for autoclave engineering ports:
* Threaded port with a tapered area for conical tube tip to create high-pressure metal-metal seal.
* Will make end mill to create 5-degree taper in part as per specs.
* 00:10:00 Some ports have closed tolerances and will be bored later, other features are straightforward
* 00:10:30 Intersecting hole arrangement causes complexity. Must drill in correct order to avoid breaking drills.
*CAD Model Continued*
* 00:11:00 Further detailing of how intersecting angled holes create issues
* 00:11:30 Unsure of customer's plan for high-pressure sealing at other end of part.
* 00:12:00 Small angled holes near ports are for leak detection
* 00:12:30 Blue holes are for a spanner wrench
* 00:12:30 First operation will be on part face with keyway milling
* 00:13:00 Five axis machine better for angled holes, simplifies positioning using offsets etc.
* 00:13:30 Will first drill holes where orange slugs appear in model, then support with drill rod, then drill remaining intersecting holes.
* 00:14:00 High-pressure coolant at 1500 PSI may push out support rods
* 00:14:30 Potential solutions for holding support rods (bending, banding, etc) being considered.
*Pulling out support rods*
* 00:15:00 Plan to leave drill rod slightly exposed for removal
* Will use vice grips attached to a slide hammer to extract
* Believes friction, combined with a bent rod shape, will prevent coolant from dislodging them
*Additional Tooling Needed*
* 00:15:30 Part has a pocket with an unknown function
* 00:16:00 Requires custom tool due to undercut feature
* Speaker drew up design for a cutter, to be ground
* Option to purchase this type of tool maybe exists but grinding is easier in this case
*Operational Order*
* 00:16:30 First operations will focus on milling both parts on one end
* Parts then flipped, chucked on new diameters, and aligned using keys (internal or external) to establish reference point
* 00:17:00 Work continues on the opposite end: ports, various holes
*Key Challenges and Wrap-up*
* 00:17:30 The main challenge is intersecting holes causing insufficient drill support (risk of breakage)
* This is due to the very shallow angles of intersection
* 00:18:00 Next video will cover setup, programming, and the actual machining process
Disclaimer: I used gemini ultra 1.0 (2024.02.08) to summarize the
video transcript. This method may make mistakes in recognizing words
and it can't distinguish between speakers.
This might be more impressive than the part at hand.
Хм, не простая деталька.
Watched many videos from this guy, super talented. But please clean up that workshop, looks like a bomb 💣 has gone off. You must work alone I guess.
Great content otherwise