HMS Lord Clive - Guide 168
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- The Lord Clive class, monitors of the Royal Navy, are toady's subject.
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Pinned post for Q&A :)
Good Morning Drach, I've sent you an important email on the Nemi ships around Monday, could you please take a look at it as you as you have time? Thank you very much.
How often was naval gun itself good, but itʼs mounting was bad or inadequate? You said this for 5.25 gun on KGV and as I know also for Nelsonʼs 16 inch guns.
Im sure you have been asked this multiple times before so dont reply if its too tedious
How much time do you usually spend when making one of these videos?
How do you think the naval part of WOI Mediterranean sea would go if Italy actually joined the Central powers, instead of the Entente(Austria gave them their claims or something like that). I understand this is a big topic, just wondering about the general strategy which the Entente and the Central Powers would most likely pursue, what kind of strategies would be executed etc.
Drachinifel hello,
many thanks for your great videos. For the dry dock, I would love to know:
what was the fuel consumption of a ww2 battleship?
best wishes
Monitor: Gets up to 8 knots on trial.
Britain: Hold up, we got a badass over here
technically 7 knots maximum speed ?
Ship: Hold my questionable structural integrity
Hopefully the war is still there when it arrives.
You forgot the guys who below with the poles rowing the ship as a galley badass raming Roman Empire Ship of the line! Also we are pirates so we got a badass Parrot Who is our Captain!
5:22 That's not a torpedo bulge, that's a torpedo love handle.
You're not wrong lmfao
The ship is sensitive about that. It prefers the term dad bod
The ship is sensitive about that. It prefers the term dad bod
They would flood some of those to increase the elevation thus range.
@@jzsbff4801never heard of it on Monitors in WWI but in WWII one of the battleships providing shore bombardment on D-Day did flood some compartments on one side to get extra elevation on the guns to get them to fire further. Another place they might be remembering this from is the game “Ace Combat 7” where an antagonist does a similar thing for the same reason. Why this works should be obvious: flooding the compartments induces a list, causing one side to rise higher. If it’s done right this is the side facing the shore, so the guns facing the shore are now higher up and thus have a higher elevation and longer range.
That drydock picture is one of the craziest things I've seen. "Does this torpedo bulge make me look fat?"
jnelchef does my 15in gun make me look skinny? hahahaha!
I believe that the Cougeous/Furious class were based on a monitor/light cruiser hybrid in fact Lord Fisher may have cooked up the idea for them in his shed! It was the obscene under water bulges on the monitor that gave it away.
"No, it makes you look EXTRA THICC."
Broad beamed.
@@raykisner8538 The main purpose of the bulge was to reduce the draught and provide stability
"So, in classic British, 'patched up in the back of a shed' style".
You have to wonder where the world would be without a man and his shed.
@@bigblue6917 According to Drach (a few months ago), the man must be wearing a 'flat cap'.
(i may have mis-remembered this phrase).
The early 20th century Colin Furze!
Oh and dont forget the rail road added. I wonder if it was live steam? Brilliant!
Is there an armory somewhere in Britain that's full of old big naval guns for blokes to tinker with in their sheds?
"the shells had to moved by light rail" ok, that is the first time I broke out laughing over the description of a warship.
Are you new to this channel? Its quite a frequent occurrence for me:-)
_"The next Green Line ammunition train is now arriving. Doors will open on the left."_
I'm developing a strange addiction to fighting hotels, round battleships and battleship calibre destroyers... Oh, let's not forget:
hat tip to the Surcouf.
Yes and battleships that are also carriers.
I’m still hoping for the day when he covers those “U-cruisers” that Nazi Germany started to build but then cancelled, the ones with 4x5” guns in a pair of actual turrets.
And a part of me is very sad that Germany didn’t look at the Surcouf and think “we can do better than *those* guys”, because the idea of a submarine that more closely resembles the Admiral Graf Spee in armament is one that I find *most* awesome.
@@willrogers3793 Surcouf and the U-Cruisers strike me as the most wonderfully Diesel-Punk thing ever, like something you'd see in an alternate history game or movie
@@willrogers3793 They also made some prototype amphibious submarines.
im on a research binge for the destroyer with battleship calibered guns, what video is this of drach's? also yes I AM reviving a year old comment thread
The British man and his shed.
Wife: what did you do today, dear.
Husband: I was in the shed and I just knocked up a couple of monitors for the Royal Navy.
Wife: that's nice dear.
Husband: got one up to 8 knots. Surprised all them who were sailing their little boats in the boating pond.
When I read this, I use Monty Python "pepperpot" voices.
I also added a model railway on it too
@@Welshman2008 I like your style
We rule the world when it comes to designers complete with a bottle of malt whiskey, two pipes, some pipe baccy, a pen and a fag packet!
@@longi625 If it works why change it
Ship designers: "So, how big shall the new guns for the monitors be?"
Admiralty: "Yes!"
I think in this case "probably" is more accurate 😂
" YES,YES ! "
You've got a heck of a backlog. I just want to say thank you for being the ONLY person doing this Calibre of naval history content on RUclips. We give you so many topics because you're the best!
Oh, the 'light rail' munitions train discussion had me in stitches...
In all likelihood they were just repurposed mine carts pushed by hand, the rails being provided for positive guidance on a potentially slippery deck.
Picture one of those small "scale " size trains that the guy sits on top of the locomotive to run it around , with little flat cars with shot and shell .
I'm a train driver in civvy street... That means I could have had a career in the Royal Navy and kept my skill base after all!
HMS Belfast had a rail system for delivering heavy AA ammunition, now sadly removed. Otherwise visiting children could be given a ride on it, then fired out of a 4" gun for the entertainment of all present.
@hognoxious WOW, Great to know .
The Royal Artillery Museum at Fort Nelson near Portsmouth (UK) has an 18" gun on a railway carriage. While not exactly as fitted to Furious or the monitors, nor yet as fitted to Yamato or Musashi it does give a very good idea of the size of the weapon. "Sodding (other emphases are available) enormous" covers it quite well. For the reading types Reeman's HMS Saracen is a rollicking good yarn about a monitor in WW1 and WW2. Well worth finding a copy..
Love reading Douglas Reeman
Last time I was this early Curious, Spurious and Outrageous were still considered and excellent idea
Outrageous would be a truly splendid name for a totally over the top battleship. Nobody tell World of Warships for heaven's sake - the imaginary Russian BBs already there are too much by far already.
@@Kamina1703 I don't think they go back that early, sadly. Not sure I'd want the Kamchatka on my team!
@@vipertwenty249 They do have Mikasa....
@@vipertwenty249 ah but if they did, imagine the joy of attacking it with Japanese torpedo boats!
@@bartfoster1311 No need for Japanese torpedo boats - the Grimsby fishing fleet should do just fine and they'll shoot their own side! :-)
There's an interesting article on Wikipedia which has some details about operations involving the Clive class monitors. Sharpe fans would be gratified to know there was a HMS Sir John Moore and a HMS General Craufurd. More surprising was that there was also a HMS Marshal Ney (which, it turns out, had a sister ship called HMS Marshal Soult).
The guns from Marshal Ney going to equip the monitor Erebus and saw action right up to the end of 1944.
I recall asking a question about the 18" Wolfe Class guns many moons ago. Thank you for answering... In more detail than I thought was available!
Always like the monitors, for some odd reason. Such a unique and specific ship design, and somewhat overlooked.
Quite like the namesake for the type.
@hognoxious Ha, already done and read that long ago ... loved his stories, and would re-buy them if I could, just add to my collection. I also liked his Bolitho books under Alexander Kent pen name.
Good thing the single gun design never caught on. Have an image of a 32 inch Krupp railway gun roaming the Atlantic with the Bismarck as a light escort.
awsome !!
A ship armed with the Dora gun would probably sink herself from the recoil.
@@bkjeong4302 YES or they only get one shot as the gun goes back and over the side into the sea !
@@TOMAS-lh4er ohh no doubt the weight and recoil would sink such a ship
@@bkjeong4302 yes it would no doubt sink itself but it's something the KM probably thought of
A train on a warship ?
For those schoolboys who can't decide between being a train driver or a sailor....
Loooooooool
5:35 I'm still struggling to believe the torpedo bulges are real, it looks like a hovercraft in that pic
It actually puts me in mind of the Russian Circular Warships, AKA The Battle-Blins of Doom
I think they're designed like that in order to maintain a shallow draft.
I knew about them , But I never thought they were so big ! I wonder if they were extra large just on those ships ?
On some ships they do get a bit excessive. There was one from an earlier video that looked like someone tried to save money by mounting a destroyer on a spare heavy cruiser keel they had lying around.
I think it makes them look like a large breed dog as a puppy that hasn't grown into their feet yet.
@@christopherconard2831 YES , thats funny
"Man Overboard!" BONK!!! "Never mind..."
'Man overb- Oh wait...'
he will be fine, only a minor concussion
Always one of my favorite ways to get at those Artillery aficionados...ARMY: Behold the firepower of our 15 cm artillery! NAVY: (snicker).
Actually the army was using railway guns with ex navy battleship barrels on them. Having said that they did originally belong to the Royal Navy. But the total lack of ocean got to much for the navy and they left them for the army to play with. 'Oh thanks.' Said the army. 'Just what we wanted.'
Albeit the ships that were supposedly the best for fire support (battleships) were neither designed for or particularly suitable for this role (due to costing too much to be built just for secondary roles).
Thats clever, " snicker "
The French pre-dreadnoughts called. They wanted you to know they think this is a very silly design. :)
@EnglishXnXproud that's a bit below the belt... No pun intended but that French admiral was a bit stupid to not let his ships join the Royal Navy
First time I ever heard of RN monitors was reading "HMS Saracen" in the mid 60s. On the flap of the dustcover was a short piece on HMS Roberts, which, at the time, was the last surviving monitor.
Steve Valley I too read that book perhaps a “Readers Digest” version. As I remember the story was a fine one that I enjoyed very much.
a Douglas Reeman book, wasn't it ? I used to have almost the whole series. I remember his descriptions and technical details of the ships being pretty good. ( personally, i found the "troubled captain finds new love" thing he repeated so much a bit annoying)
@@kommissarkillemall2848 yes, it was one of Reeman's. As for the romantic angle, it was the 60s. I remember the hot scene in the book. There was a hot scene in Jan de Hartog's "The Captain" as well. I found "Saracen" in the library at school. I would have been about 13 when I read it, and wondered if the librarian knew that bit was in there.
I would love to see a modern take on this concept.
Also, I recommend the book "HMS Saracen" by Douglas Reeman. It's about an old monitor in WWII now captained by a man who served on her in WWI.
Second that recommendation.
The USMC has been begging for a gunfire support platform for years. Various ideas have been floated. One I remember was taking all the 5"/38 twin turrets in storage and mounting 8 of them on a fleet replenishment ship hull. Another wanted proposed the same thing but using 2 of the triple 8" semiauto turrets from the Des Moines class cruiser. The latest experiment was firing a bunch of MLRS vehicles on the deck of an amphibious support ship (which actually worked quite well).
My own idea was to take a couple Perry Class frigates out of mothballs, strip off the ASW and helicopter stuff and mount some 5"/38s or and extra armor. A 6000 ton frigate should be able to handle the armament of a WW2 destroyer at twice the tonnage.
Wow, I thought the preview pic for this video was one where someone had photoshopped a turret from Star Wars onto the ship, but nope, turns out the mad lads did it in WW1.
IT DOES ,look like the upper part of that 2 legged destroyer in star wars
@Jangus Roundstone It does look like the current "Rail Guns " BIG !!
First cats, now sheds. You sir are the best! You made it interesting.
My great grandfather served on HMS Sir John Moore in 1916. We have his naval records somewhere. While Jutland was going on, he was somewhere in the north sea attacking Zeppelin pens. He was in the navy from 1912 to 1932, and served on some very famous ships such as HMS Royal Oak and HMS Ark Royal (I). For whatever reason, we've always called Sir John Moore 'his' ship.
Oh look, another Prince Eugen. Ships named after him served in the British, German, Italian and Austro-Hungarian navies.
dont forget US navy good sir, at the day she sunk Printz Eugene, officially was USS Printz Eugene
Not too surprising considering that the British Royal family was, at the time, at least half German nobility and who in turn were by marriage related to most of Europe's other Royal Houses . No coincidence that the Battenberg family changed name to Mountbatten
The good ol' Prince had a ship in every port.......
Prince Eugene was actually french, but the french king Louis XIV thought he was too short, scrawny and ugly to ever amount to much as a soldier, and refused to give him a command. So Prince Eugene moved to Austria and joined the army of the Holy Roman Empire, rose to be a general, and combining with the Duke of Marlborough spent the rest of his career beating the French.
Being shelled by a naval gun when you are more than twenty miles from the sea must have been a terrifying experience.
Yeah just ask the Iraqis. They were getting shelled by over the horizon 16” salvos in desert storm.
I can just imagine the few health and safety officers in the audience autistically screeching after hearing how those 18 inchers were mounted
_"REEEEE you can't do that, it's dangerous!"_
"Yes we can - we did - and it worked"
Meanwhile at a German shore battery:
“Sir! Our counterfire has been successful! The Lord Clive is turning away!”
“Excellent work!”
“Oh no...”
“What is it?”
“She’s turned to expose her starboard side.”
“Oh, shi-BOOM”
"Now witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational Monitor!"
Shell sails over their heads enroute to the target - a railway bridge
"Welcome to the Navy: here's your small gauge railway system to feed the guns."
I've read a little about the utility and work done by the small gauge railway systems used to supply the troops in trenches during WWI, I never imagined that the same sort of system would have naval applications. Did they have to put the rolling stock under cover while the 18" gun fired to keep the blast effects from sending them all over the place?
I believe that in the 1970s, some Royal Navy anti submarine frigates had a small railway track on deck to convey ammunition to the Limbo depth charge mortar mounted on the quarterdeck.
@@alexandermonro6768 IIRC, mine rails in the US Navy were standard gauge (4ft 8.5nches
It was just a hand pushed cart running on rails in the deck from the magazine hatch to the gun - nothing so grandiose as a trench railway.
I'm amazed at what you come up with on this site. This proves truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.
I had no idea these ships even existed! Thank you!
it's too bad I watch these in the morning, because "However" would be a great drinking game......
Saw the video being uploaded 3 minutes ago...
The last time I was this early, Razatvensky was calling one of his ships a Harlot
@Drachinifel I was curious if you would cover the WWII developments of guided anti-ship munitions (such as the Fritz X, Hs 293, ASM-N-2 Bat)...?
Otherwise, excellent video as always.
Imagine the disaster if Wile E. Coyote had one of these!
He wanted one but they weren't in the ACME catalogue...
YOU KNOW we will get to see him go off a cliff in it!!
it would be a scene something along the lines of
fires and blows bridge off somehow, leaving him smoking holding an ouch sign or somesuch then in the chaos from the lack of controls it will sail right off the edge of a waterfall to the rocks below
@@artbrann Like hommer simpson " DOOOO"!
Very interesting! I would love to see an episode describing the damage / results achieved by these monitors.
Peter Frise my Grandfather was in the Royal Army Engineers . these guns gave tremendous amount of support to the troops. The Engineers would request fire support and the amount of blasting out anything in the way was blown up with great intense explosion. these type of ship gave the Germans lots of worrying and anxiety when they were there.
SEE '"Big Gun Monitors" for details of all RN Kaiser and Hitler War monitors www.amazon.com/Big-Gun-Monitors-Construction-Operations/dp/1591140455
I was looking at the cover picture and thought what a neat battleship, until I noticed the monstrosity at the stern.
Honestly, I heard nothing about this ship. And at first, I thought this video was another "By Jove" off-season April Fools video.
And as you go to bed after uploading, I wake up for work and am happy to see this
It's fantastic that so many photographs were taken of these, and the other lost, ships of the past. History has been helped immeasurably by photography.
I do love a Monitor.....thanks D.
I absolutely love Monitors, another ship class that's been consigned to the history books.
I love the lesser known odd ball ships. A ship with its own model train set might be my new favorite.
Sorry, it was just a push cart on rails (to make sure the pitching and rolling didn't send it over the side
I would like to hear about being on the receiving end of one of these barrages.
Dead men tell no tales.
OH LOOK INCOMING MAIL! ENGLISH MORNING RAG NEWSPAPERS! Great we need toilet paper! Thanks Tommies!
Well, you would probably just hear a screaming sound from somewhere in the distance and then become a crater the size of a football field
We are being fired upon by the General Nuisance.
And people say the Bob Semple tank was a bodged up job....
Imagine if they'd strapped an 18 inch gun to it. Now that's a Big Bob.
@@bificommander Good news: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_General_Wolfe_(1915)
Great video! A very example of building a ship to suit a very specific purpose. The British had the idea of somehow getting these ships into the Baltic and using them against Kiel but the threat of U-boats curtailed that idea.
At least one of the gun barrels served and was used for testing as a railway mount at Shoeburyness, untill the 80.s I bereave it is in a museum now.
Thank you for the video of the MONITOR CLASS of ships. Many questions were answered and included some surprises.
Douglas Reeman wrote a nice fiction book about a WW II monitor off the coast of N. Africa. Good stuff.
Good video. Got me to thinking whether the modern navy might take some cues from this. The type 45's cost a billion pounds each. How about some relatively low tech low cost monitors for fire support? Built like a brick outhouse with, say, six fourteen inch guns in two triple turrets fore and aft. Rocket boosted munitions with seeker warheads and half ton bursting charge or area submunitions. Would be perfect for long range shore bombardment, and even for ship to ship under the right circumstances.
I know we’re talking about monitors but why is the subject so toady?
Because, as at Gallipoli, they could be used to support amphibious operations.
@asuka "toady"... "amphibious"
*woooosh!*
Scrapped in the early 1920s you say? Like any good Call of Cthulhu GM my mind immediately jumped to, "And the party of investigators steal the silly thing."
What an odd duck. Never heard of it before. Thanks for the education!
4:00 that is some stunning photography for the period
Well, I guess it's nice that those guns left over from "Furious" weren't totally wasted...but DAMN!?!
You know your speed is bad when some merchantmen are outrunning you. They didn't need the speed, but I can't help but note the ship has the displacement of a small cruiser while the shaft horsepower is comparable to a Flower Class.
If Top Gear had to bodge together a bombardment ship...
I enjoyed this one VERY much! Leaning (even) more towards amusing than usual, not counting the ships' cats episode. Still informative. Who knew?!
Thank you. I love learning about ship classes I knew existed in broad terms, but learning the details and actual names for them.
Also, I love that hull design because I'm a sucker for clever engineering (or is it naval architecture in this case?) for very specific circumstances.
I got a documentary recommendation for Drach and anyone else who likes archival footage of submarines: The German War Files. The narrator is essentially a drier version of Drachinifel, and the focus tends to be on the logistical and political aspects. Sadly, there doesn't seem to be any content on other ship types, but there is a ton of other series within the German War Files covering planes, panzers, and artillery. Note that the videos you find on RUclips have the music excessively loud.
I have always had a soft spot for Monitors and was pleased when I saw it was coming up from you. To be honest I thought they were for defence of our shores not the attack of the other fellas. I hadn't realised also that there were so many. My Library only had two or three (interesting :-) editions of Janes Fighting Ships. That was in my teens, I wonder how many now? Probably much less.
I would love to see a picture of that ship at sea , with the rear end down in the water more than the bow, just like an LA low rider !
@@TOMAS-lh4er Pictures show her on an even keel after the addition of the 18 inch gun
I've got a bit of a odd question @drachinifel, do you know anything about the use of ground loop indicators in anti-submarine warfare? Some time ago I was exploring aitkengall(?) Near North Berwick at the mouth of the Forth Estury, a old hush-hush radar installation, and found a panel marked ground loop indicator and a channel that dropped well over 100ft down to below sea level.
Ground loop indicators are used at traffic barriers and traffic lights, and any rear engined car owner will attest to them not being overly sensitive! So I thought they'd be no use in something as deep as the forth, but maybe we had a way of doing it, or maybe the sheer mass of a sub will trip one regardless of a few hundred feet distance!
Its bugged me for years, would be nice to know a answer, it's being developed now so I've no chance of a return visit.
As will many a motorcycle riders! The number of times I've had to instruct a motorist to move closer and trigger the loop!
The problem isn't exactly with detecting. It is with tuning - the more easy to activate you make the loop, the more "false alarms" you will have (people don't always stay perfectly in lane, you can guard against it, but then loop might not pick up a scooter). Not to mention you needed back then to constantly watch. But military could do it. Just like they did to UB-116 in Scapa Flow, or in Sydney when the attack on Sydney Harbour was first detected by a loop - the problem of course was that "anything" (theoretically, loop was properly maintained, so in reality chances of surface vessel activating it on accident were remote) could have triggered it, so the warning was ignored. Those are 2 major instances where the loops were very useful - Wikipedia doesn't have much more (if you want: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-submarine_indicator_loop ), but don't exactly translate civilian loops on the military ones. I might have to ask a friend who used to work on de-magnetizing ship of Polish Navy - it's possible he will know something else.
I think you're thinking about MAD (magnetic anomaly detection)? Which is used in ASW planes and helicopters still today to find submarines. ruclips.net/video/tMXOKUUX3Wg/видео.html
I seem to recall a story about a scooter rider who araldited a load of neodynium magnets to the underside of the plastic bodywork (fairing) in order to solve ths problem. Apparently it did work, but he needed to regularly clear random bits of metal it had collected on his travels.
I'm not sure you're talking about a radar installation at all. It sounds like the old ASDIC experimental, testing and development station on the Forth, which, for some reason which entirely escapes me, apparently recruited opera singers ( in the early days of submarine detection by what is now called SONAR ) for testing purposes.... no doubt so that if an enemy ever armed an underwater opera singer with a torpedo, the Royal Navy would be able to find him, or indeed, her, and sink him/her with depth charges. What a shame the Germans used U boats instead, don't you think?
Cool! I've been waiting for this one. Here's some more info, from an article in "Warship" magazine #12 by I.L.Buxton, 1979.
- Early in 1917 Charles Lillicrap, a young constructor who had designed the first British monitors in November 1914, was called in to examine the feasibility of installing the 18" turret in an Abercrombie class monitor. His calculations, dated 21st March 1917, showed that replacing the present turret with the 18" turret would add 440tons extra weight - technically feasible although considerable reconstruction would be necessary to accommodate the larger turret. This plan was not proceeded with.
- Instead, two of the 18" guns were offered to Vice Admiral Reginald Bacon, in command at Dover. Bacon conceived the idea of shipping the guns & their mountings across the channel lashed to the bulges of monitors for installing inside the Palace Hotel at Westende, whence they could bombard the U-boat & destroyer base at Bruges. Westende was still in German hands at the time, but it was hoped that the forthcoming "Third Ypres" offensive would advance far enough in conjunction with a seaborne landing west of Ostende to capture the area. As things turned out, the offensive floundered to a halt in the Flanders mud in September, so this plan also had to be shelved. Bacon had already come up with an alternative plan to mount the guns on a CD (Coast Defence) mounting positioned aft on board the monitors.
- W.H. Gard, one of the Assistant DNC's, arranged for Lillicrap and a new assistant constructor, K.H. Watkins, to work up the detailed design, including alternative mounting positions and ballasting arrangements. The only place to fit the mounting without removing the 12" turret was abaft the funnel but, in order to provide adequate structural support beneath the mounting, it would need to be sited abaft the engine room. The huge trimming moment due to the concentrated load about 100' aft of amidships would increase the draft aft to about 14', seriously reducing the freeboard to only about 4'. Various proposals were examined to reduce the trim, including water ballast forward. The most satisfactory solution was found to be closing up watertight the after inboard bulge compartments, which were normally open to the sea. It was calculated that the resulting drafts would be 9' 2½" forward and 11' 10½" aft, with a displacement of 6645 tons. This figure assumed that 645 tons had been added to a basic condition of 6000 tons at a level draft of 10'. This draft was the designed condition, no attempt having been made to check whether it represented the monitor's current condition. In fact two year's service had added several hundred tons to the monitor's weight, so they all had a trim by the stern of a foot or more. The result was that, as finally converted, the ship's drafts became 8' 9" forward & 13' 2" aft, displacing 6850 tons. Not only was freeboard aft now dangerously reduced, but the bulge was fully submerged, increasing the risk of a distance-controlled explosive motor boat riding over the bulge and exploding against the main hull proper. A heavy steel rail was built up on top of the bulge to prevent this happening.
- Meanwhile approval had been given to convert Furious fully to an aircraft carrier. This meant a third gun was now available. Orders went to Elswick on 23rd September 1917 for the three CD mountings for delivery between March and May 1918. Loading was at a fixed angle of 10° but firing was only possible between 22° and 45°. Traverse was 10° on either side of the mounting centre-line. Only the mounting itself trained, the shield being fixed to the deck. Powered loading was used but the ammunition supply parties were not so fortunate, all movement being done by muscle power. Total ammunition stowage was for 60 shells and 72 full charges (equivalent to 61 supercharges). The total weight of the mounting was 384 tons, including the gun. The maximum firing loads (including the dead load of the mounting) were estimated to be 460 tons force vertically and 675 tons horizontally on the forward support and 400 tons vertically on the sliding after support.
- Internally there were many changes. The after half of the upper deck was given over to stowage for the 18" shells & their transporters plus the structural supports for the mounting, consisting mainly of partial transverse bulkheads of ½" & 1" thickness, extended right down to the double bottom, cramping the officer's accommodation space on the main deck. The warrant officers were moved to upper deck cabins, where the crew berthing was increased for the new complement of 278.
- The three monitors chosen for conversion were those with the three most senior commanding officers, Lord Clive, Prince Eugene, & General Wolfe. The plan was to take the first two vessels in hand at Portsmouth Dockyard in December 1917, fit the extra supports in January and ship the mountings in March. After trials they would return to service in May, while the third ship began its conversion. The amount of work to be done turned out to be underestimated and there were also troubles with labour shortages and strikes. The first gun was actually mounted in the third ship, General Wolfe, on 9th July 1918. Trials were carried out successfully off the Isle of Wight on 7th August. Clive returned to Portsmouth on 16 AUgust 1918 for her missing gun, which was shipped on 7 September, trials being carried out hurriedly on 13th October. Eugene arrived at Portsmouth on 19th October moving into No.14 dock for final modifications, but the war was over before she could receive her gun.
- The longst range used in the gun's few weeks active service was 36,000 yards which, allowing for wind and other ballistic corrections, would require an 8crh projectile with supercharge. Only eight shoots against the enemy were carried out by Wolfe and one by Clive, with a total of 85 rounds. These rounds were probably Hadfield's APC 4crh modified with ballistic caps, since only two HE 8crh had been delivered by the end of September, when stocks ashore & afloat amounted to 452 APC, 487 CPC and 2 HE. Both ships supported the Allied offensive of September 1918, taking as targets canal bridges inland from Ostende.
Bacon was ex-Director of Naval Ordnance and after retiring pre-war had been Managing Director of Coventry Ordnance Works. In 1914, COW was developing a 15-inch Siege Mortar that the Army didn't want to know anything about. In 1915, Churchill presented an astonished Army Council with a 15-inch Siege Howitzer, a supply of shells and Colonel Bacon, RM to command the battery. After proving himself fit on the Western Front, Bacon took over the celebrated Dover Patrol. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BL_15-inch_howitzer and ruclips.net/video/b9ZBwk8KwVc/видео.html
I wanted to learn more about these monitors and low and behold Drach delivers.
Read HMS Saracen as a kid back in the 70’s, now I build 1/350 scale model warships, and am working on HMS Roberts. Amazing ships, of course you can google them and see plenty of the completed models. Cheers.
Fascinating! I knew little of these.
Thanks very much for creating this video.
An ideal use for one of these sold as surplus. Add a stern wheel, replace armament with a gingerbread deck house and a steam calliope. Is an armored showboat. The hull form really reminds me of a Mississippi river boat
i always wait with anticipation of your videos , dont every change your way of doing them . i would love to see your library it must be massive for the obscure ships you find out about
You are one of the best speakers on the Internet .
Years ago I read a novel by Phillip McCutchen(?) in which the action took place aboard a monitor ship. I thought it was a figment of the authors imagination. Still learning. Thank you. Narragansett Bay.
Interesting when you consider that one of the ships that Prince Eugene was named after an Austrian general. While the Brits were fighting this nation at that time.
He did fight alongside Marlborough.
@@johnegan7622 nevertheless he was general of the Habsburgs
"...patched up in the back of a shed style" is sometimes where you find the best ideas and occasionally awesome results. In the Lord Clive … not so much.
Monitors made another appearance during WWII and during the Vietnam War the USN modified some large landing craft to utilize single 5"/38 cal mounts like those found in the WWII Fletcher class ships and called them 'Riverine Monitors.'
Another issue you almost touched on was that in some cases, the bigger land artillery pieces simply couldn't get into position because the whole western front had been pounded into a mud pit.
They need one of them Dyn-O-Mite guns. No flash and barely any report to make them chaps from the Lazy Boy Empire think they’re being shelled by Aloha himself.
I believe one of the 18-inch monitors also engaged a set of lock gates at extreme range and scored a hit.
I cannot remember which one.
B
2:03 the name of prince Eugene is for the same person that prinz Eugen?
Yes, Prince Eugene of Savoy. The Italian light cruiser Eugenio di Savoia is also named for him.
Prince Eugene spent a good part of his military life fighting alongside John Churchill, duke of Marlborough , the two were one of the finest command teams Europe has seen and the two men were good friends as well. So Prince Eugene has ended up with fine reputation in at least 3 countries.
@@Vonstab I'm going to assume he was a close relative to the British Royal Family as well
@@weldonwin Most of the European royalty were closely related. Wilhelm II, George V, and Nicholas II's wife were all the grandchildren of Queen Victoria.
Marc Besalduch An Austrian-Hungarian dreadnought was also named after Prince Eugene. One of the greatest generals in history.
Here's a question for Drydock. "What year did they start using turbine engines in big ships? How did that happen?" I had a friend who served on the Midway down in the engine room. I asked him "How did you guys fuel that thing?" He said "Fuel oil."
Just a wee correction: the Paris gun was 210 mm in caliber, not 8" (203 mm). Also, the largest "long guns" used by land forces in WW1 were around 6" or 150-155 mm caliber, not 4"; these included the German 15 cm K 16, the British BL 6-inch gun Mk XIX, and the French Canon de 155mm GPF. Britain also had the smaller BL 60-pounder 5" gun, which was built in greater numbers and soldiered on into WW2. Admittedly, the large majority of field guns were either c. 3" (the French 75, the British 13 pounder etc.) light field guns or howitzers of various calibres designed for trench warfare.
So,mwhat's the longest range a British warship has fired its guns at Belgian railway bridge in peace time? I'll accept targets in other countries as well.
It's not a railway bridge, but we're planning on hitting EU headquarters in Brussels as soon as the ship's ready!
;)
Heh heh the Irony I was just reading about the Elephant & the Castle on Wednesday (mainly HMS General Wolfe) man that 32km shots with the 15" B (cover name for the 18" iirc) is crazy to think of. ,
Also of class of ships monitors that is I was reading about was the HMS Severn & HMS Mersey which where used to attack the SMS Königsberg in early 1915 also among the attack was the cruisers HMS Highflyer & HMAS Poineer.
btw thinking Great War era how about a review of the AE.2 & AE.1 submarines of the RAN?
The Combat Commission great idea would love that to be covered
They were Brazilian River monitors that the RN scooped up, did a fine job supporting the Belgians. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humber-class_monitor
Reminds me of a bass-ackwards VICTORIA: Big gun aft and small guns forward.
I can just imagine the amusing tea-table conversations amongst the fleet captains. "My ship has a railway track, and it's guns are so big that utmost care must be taken in their use lest they tear ship apart".
Thanks for this, it’s a class of warship I never knew existed.
Monitors are not just overlooked, the non naval historian has most likely never heard of them. Love the firing only at a high elevation.
This is fucking fantastic. If it’s stupid but it works. It’s not stupid.
Naval gunfire support is an amazing asset to have when the need arises. Accurate, fast and big.
I love the way you say 'clawsss"
A minor point - Eugene is actually pronounced "Yevgeny" (hard G)
Last I was this early, quit immediately followed quirt in the OED
Are those torpedo bulges, or is this one of those round Russian ships?
That's where I'd seen it before.😊👍
Is that a torpedo bulge, or are you just happy to see me.
yes
All of that ship to support 1-2 lousy turrets? That was a waste. Sounds like an easy posting 🚣
Nice one. Thanks.
The HMS Abercrombie you showed was the WW2 version. The WW1 unit had far less top hamper.
David Budka time travelling got the right name wrong era. oh well the Germans are in for treat when that ship blasts them with WW2 guns!
Gorrammit, now I want the job of running a train on a ship.
This is the best example of "if it's stupid and it works, it's not stupid" that's ever sailed I believe...
Seriously though.....the most useful things battleships ever really did in the end was provide gunfire support to ground targets.
We started wars over their building, they smashed into each other in near pointless engagements.....
Love it! "Oh big gun...what? Your going to throw it away? Bloody expensive, I know, give the army some help so we can concentrate on blowing up floaty things. Recycling, not a new idea at all!