Hey everyone. I noticed I lost my train of thought a lot times (that's why you write a script dummy) and sort of just trailed off and left some sentences unfinished. I also forgot to make a few points that are important for the message I'm trying to send across. I am absolutely not saying loft seeker is the only method to deliver missiles in WRCS mode and that direct seeker doesn't work in this mode. What I'm saying is that WRCS is designed specifically for the loft seeker and only calculates release solutions for the loft seeker, which has a significantly longer range than direct seeker. As such, using direct seeker and following the commande cues correctly in WRCS mode WILL result in your missiles coming short of the target. You can absolutely extend the range of your missile with direct seeker by lofting it and get relatively reliable results at reasonable ranges, but that automatically means you need to pull up further than what's commanded by the WRCS. That means you are actually guessing how far to pull up. WRCS cues is practically useless for you at that point. Yesi through practice you can develop the necessary muscle memory to reliably pull up to the correct angle at any given range, just like how people do iron bombing by using Mk.I Eyeball. But the whole point of the WRCS is to remove the guess work out of this whole endeavour and provide reliable release solutions each time, with minimal practice. And this is exactly why I made the argument that teaching new comers that they shouldn't use loft seeker with WRCS mode, simply because you think they don't work or Heatblur changed some code, when in reality you simply are not employing them correctly, is the wrong lesson here. Instead learn the correct method, practice with it and teach that. That's it.
I have to say mate that this is a far better explanation of the Shrikes than pretty much everything I’ve watched so far. Nice work, no cuff too tough. Personally, I was getting thoroughly fed up of every other video on RUclips showing slightly different tactics to the same ‘delivery method’ and still getting hits. Yet when I try to replicate the results, I would ALWAYS fall short in the direct mode. I was also sick and tired of seeing threads stating the same regurgitated info “The shrikes were awful, just accept it”, but then I’d see all these tutorials which showed all this success. Something for me wasn’t adding up. I tried the WRCS mode with the loft seeker yesterday actually after 2 hours of failing with the Direct seeker. First attempt I got all 4 shrikes to hit. However until watching your video and listening to your explanation, I didn’t understand why. Nor did I realise how to fire at further ranges without the ‘pull up’ que (which I now understand Information relating to range) great explanation, great demo, even with the accidental successes and good to see a longer video that showed side by side comparisons of how the seekers work differently while attacking the same target.
Ok I see I was missing the step about using the indexer. I was just pointing up and firing thinking that I had to figure out just how far out to be at a given altitude. Now I want to go back and give it a try again.
Christian, I didn't hear you mention it in the video, so pardon me if you did. But you do realize you have to Boresight the Shrike to the target for accurate Loft delivery. Accuracy will depend on how good your Boresight was.
@@m0rt171 Sure, no problem. The way a SHRIKE is delivered depends more on the aircraft than the missile. You have to realize that the SHRIKE had a very simple interface from the aircraft, meaning you can't give it information like many modern missiles (including HARM). Mostly just discrete lines as the tone for instance when the seeker head acquired the signal (like Sidewinder). So accurate delivery required the computer on the F-4 to make the correct calculations. To do this the aircrew entered the target area altitude. During the missile delivery the aircraft knows how high it is above the ground. These two numbers give you Height Above Target (HAT). The aircraft then needs to point the missile directly at the target on the ground. This gives the depression angle from Horizontal. With depression angle and HAT you have a right triangle and the aircraft computer can now calculate slant range and downrange distances. That is the Boresight. Now the aircraft knows when to release the missile during the pull up (loft) maneuver. The aircraft knows the SHRIKE is going to fly a dumb ballistic path so it is important that the aircraft releases the missile at just the right pitch so it is at the correct location in 3D space when target acquisition attempts start. Any errors in entered Target area altitude input by the pilot, aircraft altitude barometric errors, Boresight too long or short, pulling too fast pitch through the release angle, minor SHRIKE release timing, etc, will result in errors of missile position with respect to target position at the start of post launch acquisition. Does that make sense to you?
Hey everyone.
I noticed I lost my train of thought a lot times (that's why you write a script dummy) and sort of just trailed off and left some sentences unfinished.
I also forgot to make a few points that are important for the message I'm trying to send across.
I am absolutely not saying loft seeker is the only method to deliver missiles in WRCS mode and that direct seeker doesn't work in this mode.
What I'm saying is that WRCS is designed specifically for the loft seeker and only calculates release solutions for the loft seeker, which has a significantly longer range than direct seeker. As such, using direct seeker and following the commande cues correctly in WRCS mode WILL result in your missiles coming short of the target.
You can absolutely extend the range of your missile with direct seeker by lofting it and get relatively reliable results at reasonable ranges, but that automatically means you need to pull up further than what's commanded by the WRCS. That means you are actually guessing how far to pull up. WRCS cues is practically useless for you at that point.
Yesi through practice you can develop the necessary muscle memory to reliably pull up to the correct angle at any given range, just like how people do iron bombing by using Mk.I Eyeball. But the whole point of the WRCS is to remove the guess work out of this whole endeavour and provide reliable release solutions each time, with minimal practice.
And this is exactly why I made the argument that teaching new comers that they shouldn't use loft seeker with WRCS mode, simply because you think they don't work or Heatblur changed some code, when in reality you simply are not employing them correctly, is the wrong lesson here.
Instead learn the correct method, practice with it and teach that.
That's it.
Very helpful video. Would like to see some more Phantom tutorials from you. Thanks!
I have to say mate that this is a far better explanation of the Shrikes than pretty much everything I’ve watched so far. Nice work, no cuff too tough.
Personally, I was getting thoroughly fed up of every other video on RUclips showing slightly different tactics to the same ‘delivery method’ and still getting hits. Yet when I try to replicate the results, I would ALWAYS fall short in the direct mode. I was also sick and tired of seeing threads stating the same regurgitated info “The shrikes were awful, just accept it”, but then I’d see all these tutorials which showed all this success. Something for me wasn’t adding up. I tried the WRCS mode with the loft seeker yesterday actually after 2 hours of failing with the Direct seeker. First attempt I got all 4 shrikes to hit. However until watching your video and listening to your explanation, I didn’t understand why. Nor did I realise how to fire at further ranges without the ‘pull up’ que (which I now understand Information relating to range) great explanation, great demo, even with the accidental successes and good to see a longer video that showed side by side comparisons of how the seekers work differently while attacking the same target.
Ok I see I was missing the step about using the indexer. I was just pointing up and firing thinking that I had to figure out just how far out to be at a given altitude. Now I want to go back and give it a try again.
Christian, I didn't hear you mention it in the video, so pardon me if you did. But you do realize you have to Boresight the Shrike to the target for accurate Loft delivery. Accuracy will depend on how good your Boresight was.
Can you elaborate on this? How do you boresight a shrike?
@@m0rt171 Sure, no problem. The way a SHRIKE is delivered depends more on the aircraft than the missile. You have to realize that the SHRIKE had a very simple interface from the aircraft, meaning you can't give it information like many modern missiles (including HARM). Mostly just discrete lines as the tone for instance when the seeker head acquired the signal (like Sidewinder). So accurate delivery required the computer on the F-4 to make the correct calculations. To do this the aircrew entered the target area altitude. During the missile delivery the aircraft knows how high it is above the ground. These two numbers give you Height Above Target (HAT). The aircraft then needs to point the missile directly at the target on the ground. This gives the depression angle from Horizontal. With depression angle and HAT you have a right triangle and the aircraft computer can now calculate slant range and downrange distances. That is the Boresight. Now the aircraft knows when to release the missile during the pull up (loft) maneuver. The aircraft knows the SHRIKE is going to fly a dumb ballistic path so it is important that the aircraft releases the missile at just the right pitch so it is at the correct location in 3D space when target acquisition attempts start. Any errors in entered Target area altitude input by the pilot, aircraft altitude barometric errors, Boresight too long or short, pulling too fast pitch through the release angle, minor SHRIKE release timing, etc, will result in errors of missile position with respect to target position at the start of post launch acquisition. Does that make sense to you?
Seems Either Way you do it they aren't reliable in any way.
Ooooh drama!
aslo u didnt even activate the WRCS needles in the first run
Because you don't have to. It's useful, but not required.
tbh between both of you gusy videos i think its pretty clear that neither of the modes are perfect and neither are You or Alpen