What Happened to the Old Greek Flag?
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- Опубликовано: 16 дек 2022
- What did happen to the former flag of Greece? Find out here!
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#Greece #flags #interesting
Quick note, in the video I made an offhand comment about Alexander not really being Greek as he was from Macedonia. As many of you have pointed out, this is quite anachronistic, as in this period Alexander WAS categorically Greek as the separation between today's Greece and North Macedonia can only be dated to the coming of the Slavs. Clearly this rubbed a lot of people the wrong way but please be assured the comment was made through my own ignorance rather than any political motivation to sow dissent.
Now you said it right
Good going Hill : D
You have to change it. You really do. It's like saying that Leonidas is not Greek because whatever....
I almost wrote the most racist, homophobic and toxic comment but I saw this
Why haven't you changed your comment on the video you can most certainly edit what you said....
What do you mean by " Alexander was Macedonian rather than Greek ? " . Macedonia was a region of the ancient greek world as much as Laconia or Attica or Thessaly UPD: Check pinned comment . OP doing justice
@@russell3521 Ancient Olympic games determine you to be ignorant
they were considered more barbarian, since many of their regions were still majority thracian, mygdonian, paeonian and epirote, and alexander was half epirote which were very much called barbarians even if they were hellenized
The Ancient Hellenic World is Not the Nation State That Greece is. For example Karthago was a Hellenic but does That make Zeni El Abidine Ben Ali an Nationalistic Greek Hero?
@@kalterverwalter4516 after the death of alexander there was the birth of the hellinistic kingdoms of syria egypt etc where Greek was spoken as the major language of governing something that would continue after the conquest of rome and till the end of bysantine or eastern roman empire this regions would have Greek culture and Greek as the main language most of the times
@@Mokokopi No they would have Greek as the Administrative language before or was abolished. And That happened around 700.
Saying Alexander wasn't Greek because he was from Macedonia is like saying Pericles wasn't Greek because he was Athenian.The Greek Macedonian region exists till this day.Nice video but just wanted to mention that part.
And the Ancient Greeks did not view them as Greek.
@@myrddinemrys1332 learn history bro
@@Imperator_Gr You learn history bro. Along with your Golden Dawn mates.
@@myrddinemrys1332 lol golden dawn does not exist, it is banned thankfully but I guess that as hard as it is for them to open a book as it is for you to learn history
@@myrddinemrys1332 and by ancient greeks you mean precisely 2~ athenian orators
who also considered the epirotes and the spartans barbarian
When you say that Alexander was Macedonian rather than Greek, it's a little misleading because the country Greece didn't exist until 1830. In ancient times the area we now call Greece was a collection of city states. Greece existed as a concept though, just like Italy existed as a concept before the country of Italy was formed. Athens, Sparta, Macedon and other regions were considered Greek because had common ancestry, language and culture.
Yeah Alexander, had he lived in modern times, would have been considered Greek. Not Macedonian. He was ethnically Greek and not Slavic like the modern Macedonians are.
I don't think anyone would say that Plato wasn't Greek.
@@Sobchek141 Macedon might not have been popular with Athens or Sparta during the Persian wars, but it was still factually part of Classical Greece. Not to forget Alexander united the Greek city states and spread Hellenism across Western Asia, kicking off the Hellenistic period from 323 BCE until 146 BCE when Graecia was incorporated into Rome.
@@Sobchek141 Athens and Sparta literally went to war multiple times, with each other and against other Hellenic city states, sometimes with Macedon as an ally. They also had their own cultures and languages too, but they were distinctly Greek languages and Greek cultures.
@@Sobchek141 really like to sound smart but you're not. You're choosing to ignore large amounts of very significant and obvious evidence. I am beyond feeling angry, I just feel sorry for you people.
Alexander himself visited Troy to pay homage to his ancestors and claimed he was a descendant of Achilles
by saying alexander is not greek, but macedonian, you are begging balkaners to start a 3rd world war in the comments.
ancient macedonians were hellenic, not slavic.
As someone who is Macedonian we're not claiming he wasn't Greek btw. We're claiming that we're descendants of his civilization along with the Slavs that showed up in the region. Melting pot of sorts. It's worth pointing out that the Greeks at the time looked down on them heavily as half barbarians. Phillip and his son did a number to Athenian pride lmao.
@@bcvetkov8534 First, some Athenian sources looked down on Macedonia at a time when there was conflict between them or later on after Philip and Alexander had destroyed any prospects of Athens rising again, and of course there was always the issue of Greeks from city-states (especially Athens, again) looking down on Greek tribal-states, like Macedon. For example, Thucydides in his history at some point calls Macedonians 'barbarians,' but he also refers in that way about the Moloseans and Thesprotians (Epirot Greek-speaking tribal states) in the same passage? Why take Thucydides comment literally for one group and not the other?
Second, I am Macedonian as well, from Greece (and a Cretan from the other side of the family, but that is beside the point here). Why are you, a Slav-Macedonian, a 'Macedonian' and me just a Greek-Macedonian? Even if we disregard where the region got its name -- and the history behind it -- why is it alright for one group/country to monopolize the name and traditions of a region that is split among others? Especially when it only holds a small part of that region and effectively its population is comparable to just the population of the metropolitan area of the capital of the aforementioned region in the other country.
On a final note, I was going to let this slide because it's a childish superficial argument, but I keep hearing about it by various propaganda accounts, so it should be answered out of principle. The claim that, yes, we are Slavs but out ancestors intermixed with the people living in the region so we are kind of (ancient) 'Macedonian' too makes no sense. First, even if that was true -- and it is partly to the degree that people have always inter-mixed, it's only normal -- this does not change the character, history, and the identity of Ancient Macedon in any way. What is more, when Slavic population settled in the Haemos peninsula (i.e., the Balkans) there were no more ancient Macedonians, Athenians, Lacedaemonians, etc. There were only Romans. Sure most of them were Greek-speaking (even if they called their language 'Roman' and descended from those ancient communities among others), but that did not change who they were, and they were Romans. Third, there are modern Italians, Turks, Albanians, and other Bulgarians, who certainly had Greek-speaking ancestors, as there are many modern Greeks who almost certainly have ancestors from other ethnicities/communities/groups. What does that have to do with one country trying to monopolize and appropriate the name and history of a region of which, again, it holds only a very small percentage and that has included so many other people in its recent history, not to mention the absurd fabricated narratives used?
These are rhetoric questions and I am sure you know the answers. You and your fellow compatriots are free to identify as you please to the point where your actions interfere or violate the identity of others. Your freedom stops where mine begins, and so does mine to yours.
@@bcvetkov8534 it is very easy to understand that they were Greeks from their names, the Slavs do not have such names
In Greek the word" Barbarian- Βάρβαρος" is not an ethnicity characteristic,"Allophylos- Αλλοφυλος"is the word they used to describe non greeks, learn history! Kyro Gligorov your ex prime minister told them truth about your origins back in the 90's
@@bcvetkov8534 That was the original argument but then everything got out of control and Greece's idiots were fighting Macedonia's idiots.
Besides the only semi-legitimate Greek concern was whether it gave North Macedonians some basis for a future claim on Greek Macedonia. Still a bit silly since that's exactly the kind of thing that the EU is supposed to make impossible and unnecessary.
At the time of Alexander's reign Macedonia was a mostly hellinized entity in terms of religion and culture. The most common language was Greek, they worshipped greek gods and they were taking part in the Olympics for more than a century. Great video besides that.
Yeah if you go and actually do the research you come to that conclusion you have to do some real mental gymnastics to actually have done the research and still come to the conclusion that Alexanders empire wasn't Greek
Alexander's Empire was Greek but Macedonia wasn't. Not before Phillip II anyway. The Ancients viewed them as more civilised barbarians.
@@amazing.r.5789 Bruh he spread the Greek language and culture and still is not a Greek empire?
@@kostasperdikis2256 λέω πως ο μέγας Αλέξανδρος καί η αυτοκρατορία του ήταν ελληνική μπορεί όπως το έγραψα να ακούστηκε διαφορετικά.
@@myrddinemrys1332 It was the Athenians, they were a Hellenic tribe on the fringe of the Greek world, still Greek regardless.
4:13 Ah yes, the famous Slav Alexandrovich the Great, he even lived in Greece before the rest of the slavs came to europe.
Slavs formed in europe, but i get what you mean.
@@figaroo4816 olmost 1000 years later...
@@pop-n-rock expanison happened 1000 years later yes. Im not denying alexander was greek, as a slav myself.
@@figaroo4816 you are right
Ah yes, the modern Greeks who are "grandsons of Socrates and Plato", even though they're actually assimilated (greekized): Arvanites (Albanians), Aromanians (Vlachs), Slavs etc. In 1923, this "Greek" population was enriched with refugees from Asia Minor such as: Karamanlides (christianized Seljuks), Georgians (Laz), Armenians, Arab christians and others, who were counted as "Greeks" just because they were adherents of greek orthodoxy and the Ecumenical Patriarchate.
True story: when I was in Greece specifically on the island of Mykonos I saw the old greek flag along with the American flag.
Mykonos*
@@Ralampos *Meeconoze
@@CinCee- Maqawoza
@@kaydenschmayden mükoonoss
@@kaydenschmayden Žjeptå
1:05 it isn't a fire starter, it is the 4 Betas (Basileus Basileon Basilei Boithei) meaning "King of Kings, help the King!"
@@joshadams8761 who’s that
Another version says that the 4 Betas mean "the king of kings who reigns in the reigning (city), (Βασιλεύς Βασιλέων, Βασιλευούσι Βασιλεύων) the epithet of Constantinople. However, it was never a Greek flag, it was the personal feudal banner of the Palaiologos family, and certainly the eastern Roman empire it was not a Greek state, although from one point onwards the Greek language was dominant in it.
@@TRASH78246 *Βασιλεύς Βασιλέων Βασιλευούση Βασιλεύων
Αυτή η έκδοση όμως είναι από αργότερα εποχή, απ'όσο ξέρω.
Ο σταυρός συμβολίζει τους Έλληνες χριστιανούς. Πράγματι η σημαία αυτή ήταν το λάβαρο των Παλαιολόγων, αλλά η βυζαντινή σημαία ήταν ο δικέφαλος αετός σε κίτρινο φόντο. (χρησιμοποιείται και σήμερα από την ελληνική εκκλησία, καθώς επίσης και την αθλητική ομάδα ΑΕΚ).
Σε κάθε περίπτωση είναι μεγάλη ανακρίβεια να πεις ότι το Βυζάντιο δεν ήταν ελληνικό κράτος. Έχει όλα τα χαρακτηριστικά ενός ελληνικού κράτος, ιδίως από τη βασιλεία του Ηρακλείου και ύστερα. Θα ήταν σαν να λες ότι η Κύπρος δεν είναι ελληνικό κράτος. Ή ότι η οθωμανική αυτοκρατορία δεν ήταν τουρκικό κράτος. Ή ότι η Αγία Ρωμαϊκή Αυτοκρατορία δεν ήταν γερμανικό κράτος. Ή ότι τα Σκόπια δεν είναι σλαβικό αλλά "μακεδονικό" κράτος. Η ονομασία ενός κράτος συχνά είναι τίτλος του και δεν αποκαλύπτει την πραγματική του φύση. Οι Έλληνες μέχρι και τον 20ό αιώνα αποκαλούνταν και Ρωμιοί, μην ξεχνάς. Στην Τουρκία ακόμη και σήμερα η ελληνική κοινότητα αναφέρεται ως "Ρουμ" ενώ οι ντόπιες ελληνικές διάλεκτοι "Ρούμτζα", Ρωμέικα. Οι Πόντιοι Έλληνες αποκαλούν Ελλάδα μόνο τη Στερεά Ελλάδα, ως περιοχή, ενώ όλες τις ελληνικές επαρχίες τις θεωρούν "Ρωμανία" (γνωστό ποντιακό ρητό, η Ρωμανία κι αν πέρασε, ανθεί και φέρει κι άλλον). Τέλος, ο ελληνισμός μέχρι και σήμερα αποκαλείται και Ρωμιοσύνη σε παραδοσιακά τραγούδια.
What a beta flag
@@TRASH78246 palaiologos was Greek. Other dynasties and emperor's may not be Greek but he was
Μην Παραχαράζετε την ιστορία, η ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ είναι ελληνική! ☀️🇬🇷
Νομίζω έχεις δίκαιο user-tw4hi4lh5t
So, long as a Macedonian draws breath and a Greek flag doesn't fly in Skopje. Macedonia is not Greek.
@@bcvetkov8534 You clearly don't even know history, just because a fake country has the name DOSENT mean is Macedonia lmfaoo, history itself says it's Greek (HELLENIC), Only skopjans claim it's not Greek, and guess what, is pointless no one listens to their fake information so keep crying about it. Also Skopje has like 10% of ancient Greek Macedonian land 😂 💀, Slavs who came in 600 AD have nothing to do with ancient Macedonians.
@@bcvetkov8534
But Slavs like the idea of being Greek so where is the problem if a Greek flag flies in Skopje ? They put up Greek statues in the center of Fyrom and they insist on having a new name which the Greeks use for centuries...even if they take half of the name only.
Ναι
I like to imagine that the modern greek flag is just the old flag zoomed out.
Based Compatriot
thats how i always thought of it 😂
In ancient Greece they did not have a flag. But they had a symbol, Hellios - the sun of Vergina. You find this symbol in excavations from the Mycenaean period to the Hellenistic period. it exists in buildings and works of art. The most famous works with Hellios is the amphora found in Sparta 600 bc is in the Louvre museum. Wall painting on the island of Mykonos 780bc. In Mycenae in ceramic 2000bc and the best known of all in Vergina the gold urn of Philip 336bc
4:14 Alexander the Great was Greek in the region of Macedonia
So you are saying every gay person on Earth is Greek ?
@@supermavro6072 Oh ...I feel your pain here. I understand my poor child.
Maybe that's the more precise way of saying it.
@@jellyfish0311 Ο Μεγας Αλεξανδρος και η Μακεδονια ειναι Ελληνικη
Saying Alexander was Macedonian not Greek is like saying Los Angeles is California not USA.
hahahah exactly! Another Monkeydonian or Albanian or Turk. It's always one of those uploading videos from Alibaba HIstory. I definitely bypass + his voice very irritating!
Ok. Now something about my country's flag (Iceland) makes more sense to me. The thing is that back in about 1913 Icelanders became keen on having a proper flag and after a bit of debate decided on a flag that was a white Nordic cross on a blue background (sort of a reverse of the Finnish flag). The Danish King vetoed that on the grounds that it was too similar to the Greek flag, and added a red cross inside the white one. The similarity to the Greek flag never made sense to me until I saw this video.
7:27 Macedonia was a greek city state like athens or sparta,
saying alexander was not greek is like saying Plato was Athenian not greek, or Pythagoras was Ionian, not greek
Aristotle was born in Halkidiki which is Macedonia. It's like saying Aristotle is not Greek. Plus he was a teacher of Alexander. We wouldn't be doing this convo if our neighbour slavs didn't have an identity crisis and their politicians brainwashed them for years. Obviously, they thought Greek history is fancier so they just wanted a piece of it. But we all know the truth and we will teach our children the truth also.
@@Estelleeeeee hellas belive i fake history 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The old flag is still used (unofficially). However, certain army divisions still have variations of the old flag as their banner
Bro my neighbour flied the junta flag and almost got arrested another one flew the golden dawn flag and nothing happened wtf is going on?
@@lightwinggrtheone1185 lmao 😂
@@lightwinggrtheone1185 bro a lot of people use the junta flag like it’s our current one with darker blue, it’s almost the same.
@@lightwinggrtheone1185 There is no Junta flag. It's the same flag, the cross or the cross and the stripes altering no matter the system of goverment. It's just that the current flag was more or less our Navy flag, and it finally prevailed - somehow logical since Greece has the bigger merchant fleet than any other country and it was our trademark to the furthest place on the planet.
@@miltospep21 The land flag, which I think is what you are referring to, is not a 'junta flag.' In fact, it was the Junta who initially chose the 'sea flag' as the sole national flag replacing the 'land flag.' I am not sure what the other users means by 'junta flag.' Maybe he means the 'land flag' as you also mistakenly assumed or he may refer to a banner/flag with a symbol of the junta -- a phoenix with a soldier standing at the front. Even if flags like the latter -- not to mention a flag of the neo-Nazi golden dawn -- are inappropriate and disturbing, I doubt that anyone would get 'arrested' for flying one -- although they should probably called-out by their neighbours. There is freedom of expression in Greece. Neither far-left or far-right symbols are illegal no matter how disgusting what they represent are (assuming that either don't 'call out' for violence).
Alexander the Great was an Ancient Greek. He was ethnically, culturally, linguistically, and religiously an Ancient Greek. No disrespect to North Macedonia (amazing country btw), but the Macedonians of North Macedonia and Pirin (Bulgarian) Macedonia are south Slavic peoples. The Slavic migration to the Balkans took place in the 6th and 7th Centuries, ie Centuries after Alexander the Great had died. Alexander the Great wasn't Macedonian in the 🇲🇰 sense. He was a Greek Macedonian. Alexander the Great was born in Pella, Macedon in the contemporary region of Greek Macedonia.
@@user-Prometheus Whether you like it or not, Macedonia also refers to a geographical region in the Southern Balkans. A lot the geographical region is not in contemporary Greece. But I'm not going to get into a debate about the Macedonian naming dispute.
Thank you for saying my country is amazing. I appreciate it. I have no beef with Greece honestly. Greeks are cool people. Their civilization was sick. Byzantines based af. Common hatred of the Ottomans. The claim/argument is that were descendants of Alexander along with the Greeks. We're not denying we're Slavic at all. We're saying we're also descendants of Alexander and his civilization too. So post Slavic migration a lot intermarriage and the area became a melting pot.
Macedonians were Greek as Spartans were Greek as Epirots were Greek as Ionians were Greek !!!
Im not greek and I also get annoyed by this lol
Are Albanians also Greek? They are the descendants of Epirus.
@@nomanor7987 of course not, we are not brown like albanians are, so they are not greek
@@nomanor7987 ask Pyrhus what language he spoke, certainly not Albanian
I found the Slavic Makedonski
I believe that it wasn't the Scandinavian flags that were an inspiration for the Greek flag, I think it was the flag of England. Great Britain was an ally of Greece and the English flag is also the cross of Saint George.
The cross of Saint George was a trend in heraldry: the Republic of Genoa, Aragon, Sardinia, Barcelona, Milan, Bologna, Rhineland-Palatinate, Georgia... It does not necessarily imply a direct relationship with England
NORDIC. NOR-DIC. NOT SCANDINAVIAN. NORDIC.
Actually greece didn't start from the nordics the first Thracian flag was like Britain's but it was blue and white only .i guess greece took inspiration on that
@@jes3dNor this Dick hahaha gottem
Alexander the Great was Greek.
Macedonians were a Hellenic people. The best prof of this was that they were allowed to participate at the Olympic Games. None greek we’re not allowed to participate, unless you were a Roman emperor
You should perhaps make a video on the various revolutionary flags from the Balkans, there is something special about them since they are packed full of (partly ancient) symbolism (despite not being in line with conventional vexillology). My favourite ones are the flag of the Greek Island of Hydra and the banner of Karadjordje during the first Serbian uprising.
As a Bulgarian proudly subscribed to your channel, I am really fond of this Idea
hey there
Perhaps...
From the comments i asume i was the only one who thought the "Alexander Was Macedonian" part was a joke. Idk but to me it definitely sounded like he said it on purpose.
He was Macedonian. Macedonians are Greeks. Macedonia is a region in Greece. Someone whose from the Péloponnèse is Greek. Very simple concept really. Countries tend to have regions, and Macedonia is one. Also no, it was not very obvious that it was a joke
We are already looking on that and we will talk with the production team. We apologize in his behalf for the mistake.
Judging by his tone he believes the ancient Macedonians "were not greek".
@@TheMrPeteChannelOn behalf of the channel we apologize for this misstatement. The necessary suggestions and corrections were made by the production team.
Cool video, although I couldn't help but notice one unfortunate comment. The kingdom of Macedonia was one of the ancient Greek kingdoms 😉
Phillip and Alexander conquered the cities and towns. They aren't Greek. They changes the name to NORTHEN Macedonia. Let it go, please.
@@macfain2000 Excuse me but ancient Macedonia is a greek kingdom, and after the collapse of yugoslavia, a new country called macedonia was formed, but Greece asked to Macedonia to change the name because it wasn’t in the "cultural area" of Macedonia, they accept and it’s like that the Northern Macedonia is called like that
@@royaumedegustavie6268 actually it goes a lot deeper than that, before Yugoslavia collapsed Tito wanted to keep his people decided so he tried to convince today’s North Macedonians that they were separate from Serbia and that’s how the idea of a separate nationality was made, Tito did not care at all if Macedonia was Greek or not. Then after the breakup of Yugoslavia, North Macedonia did not just accept to change their flag and name and it was a dispute between those countries until they agreed to the name”North Macedonia” and the flag here: 🇲🇰 which pleased neither side.
This is a video explaining everything much better ruclips.net/video/NhYw5tR3BsY/видео.html
@@royaumedegustavie6268 Whilst it was Yugoslavia.... their leader Tito encouraged the people in that region to believe that they were descendants of Alexander and the ancient kingdom of Macedon. It was a deliberate lie by Tito for political reasons.
Alexander the Great was not a Bulgarian. He was just as Greek as you are Dutch/Frisian.
Macedonian = Greek.
Northern Macedonian = West Bulgarian.
The modern flag of Greece is a plagiarism - it's a copy of the flag of the 17th century English East India Company. Do a google image search and you'll see. The flag of the company featured the english red cross of St. George on a white background (in the canton, the upper left angle) and alternating red and white stripes. After the Greeks stole this design, they repaint it to blue and white, which comes from the coat of arms of Bavaria, since Greece was led by the king Otto Friedrich Ludwig von Bayern
The founders of the Macedonian kingdom came from the Argead dynasty. They originated from Argos in Peloponnese. That makes it a Greek kingdom. Use correct sources please.
I've always liked the aesthetic of all the Greek flags
4:17 Macedonia is Greek, you should have known that. Macedonia is actually the region of Greece I was born and raised in.
The ancient Macedonians of Alexander were Greeks,the people of the country of north Macedonia came to those lands almost 600 years after Alexander died.
Turks came to Balkan but we still aren't Turks
The firestarters on the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantine) flag are the Greek letter Β (Βασιλεύς Βασιλέων Βασιλεύει Βασιλεύουσα) meaning King of Kings Reigns in the Kingly/Reigning City.
There were a few variations including a two headed eagle at the center of the flag and other flags having the two headed eagle on yellow or red background (The one with the black two headed eagle on yellow background is still used today as the formal Greek orthodox church flag).
The Ottomans adopted the vertical crescent moon flag design after the fall of Constantinople (1453) based on the old city of Byzantium (later Constantinople) insignia.
As for the “of course he is Macedonian rather than Greek” I will totally agree with that statement as the Hellenic world back then was identified by the city state or kingdom you hailed from, so we had: Athenians, Spartans, Corithians, Ilians, Achaeans, Tegeans, Aetolians, Thespians, Thebans, Thessalians, Macedonians etc.
It was the Hellenic (Greek) language and culture that was spread by Alexander the Great and that era and kingdoms after it were named Hellenistic (not Macedonic) for a reason.
Macedonia is Greece. It's a region in Greece. North Macedonia is not where he was from.
I personally like the old flag that had the big white cross on a blue background that was used until the current one
Something about the current flag literally hurts my eyes. Might be all the stripes
Hello Hilbert. You seemed to be reading my mind at the start of the video.
At university, I was discussing Greek history with my friend from there. I mentioned that I was interested in shield designs. I said I had painted the hoplon of the officer for Cretan archers with a trireme. She could not believe an English bloke would know about any of this. I said my friend even had model triremes and fought wargame naval battles. Her suggestion for an ancient Greek symbol was a snake coiled round a stick like a medic might show as a symbol today. The flag had by this time been forgotten.
Thank you for completing my conversation almost forty years on, since when the design seems to have stabilised on my favourite one.
Fun fact the stripes spell out the “slogan “ from the Greek revolution ε-λευ-θε-ρια ή θα-να-τος
Freedom/Liberty or Death if I'm not mistaken
@@chrismc410 yup, freedom or death
This is a later apocryphal story that tries to rationalize the number of the stripes. Many revolutionary flags used this motto, but when they did they either placed the whole phrase on the flag, or the main two words without conjunctions, or simply the initials. By the way, when the full motto 'Liberty or Death' was used in Greek it was literally written as 'Either (Or) Liberty, Or Death' (in Greek the same conjunction 'Η'/'η' is used for both either and or). For example, see the symbols of the Friendly Society which instigated the revolution. Most people avoid to point this out because in the full moto the syllables don't add up to nine and break the narrative.
There is absolutely no proof that the number of the stripes had any specific meaning other than it looked aesthetically better with that number considering that the stripe touching the right edge of white cross had to be blue and the first one right after the canton had to be white to provide contrast (and readability) for the flag.
@@daes9401 Damn , I took it for granted as a fact but it seems like the proof is not as rock solid as i had thought .
Μοττο, όχι σλόγκαν, αν και δεν είμαι σίγουρος για την διαφορα
4:13 lmfaooo nah bros tripping so hard how tf does a channel with 420k subs know nothing about history *sigh*
1:03 LMFAOOO
Hilbert: *says Alexander the Great wasn't Greek*
Hoo boy, prepare for some _spicy_ comments
He is already under this procedure , but thank you for commenting. Please subscribe for more content.
4.13 Tf I thought you were doing actual research on the subject
4:14 Macedonian IS Greek.
4:12 "But of course [Alexander] was Macedonian, not Greek."
That was such an embarrassing statement, if you want to make history-related videos please make sure you know at least the basics.
They weren’t really seen as properly Greek at the time in the sense that they were as civilised as the rest of the Greek city-states, but retrospectively, it’s easier to think of them as Greek.
@boracm9928 They were Greeks and seen as Greeks, otherwise Macedonians would not participate in the Olympics Games.
@@BoraCM because they were seen as more backwards in comparison with the rest of greece doesnt mean they werent greek. It isnt "easier" to think of them as greek, they were greek
@@auto952 I’ve done some more research, and I agree with you now. It seems they held similar religious beliefs, and spoke a similar language to, the rest of the Greeks further South. This contrasts with the Thracians, who did not share these similarities. That’s what I gleaned, anyway.
@@BoraCM u mean they spoke a greek dialect and they followed the greek religion, so they were greek
- The colors (blue white with the cross of Saint George) derive from the Eastern Roman Navy Warflag ( White with blue cross and En tou Nika) sating to Constantine the Great
- The modern Greek Flag stripes derive from the navy flag with phlamoulon (banner) see here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_flags_and_insignia#/media/File:Byzantine_Banner_4.png
- Old Greek Flag (white cross, blue background) derives from the Doukas Family Heraldry dating to 1100
- 4B = "Basileùs basiléon basileuónton basileúei" (King of Kings ruling over the kings)
This comment! 👏
Greek pronunciation tip : ai is read as ε (e)
4:12 Macedonians ARE Greeks. Alexander the Great was Greek. Don't try to change history.
@@user-Prometheus ααα.
Speaking of flags : every time I see a Greek flag I can not help but being confused by seeing the flag of my native country, Uruguay.
From afar they do look kind of the same, although they are very different.
Greetings from Toronto.
That flag is the battle flag of St. Michael. The same flag was used by French kings and a variation of that flag became the flag of Quebec.
No. Is Saint George slaying the Dragon. Greek here answering.
"Near to the East, in a part of ancient Greece, In an ancient land called Macedonia, Was born a son to Philip of Macedon, The legend his name was Alexander" - Alexander the Great by Iron Maiden
i always thought the ancient area of macedon was actually more south than the current territory of north macedonia. i see old macedonia as a greek state for sure.
You're missing something. Ancient Macedonia EXPANDED northwards and conquered Pelagonia, Paeonia and other places that are now in North Macedonia, so the term 'Macedonia' did not remain fixed in the area of Pella, Vergina and Thessaloniki, where it originally emerged. There is in fact ancient Macedonian archaeology in N. Macedonia. The following places did fall under the rule of Kingdom of Macedon: Heraclea Lynkestis (now Bitola), Lychnidos (now Ohrid), Stymbara (now the village of Čepigovo, Municipality of Prilep), Stobi (near Gradsko), Bylazora (near Sveti Nikole) etc.
@@longingforthesouth9198 awesome reply
It makes sense that Greece would turn their navy flag into the national flag as it is a mostly maritime country that makes most of its money through maritime trade and tourism.
A few comments on the video you bothered to make about my country's flag.
1) Alexander of course was Greek, he had a Greek name (as did his father and all the Macedonians of the time), he spoke Greek, he believed in greek gods, and his mother was of course from the most ancient Greek tribe from the region of Epirus. The ancient Macedonians themselves, self-defined as Greeks and it would be for good, not to confuse them with today's Slavo-Macedonians who came to the region in the Middle Ages.
2) The colors of the flag were among the many used during the revolution of 1821, among them a tricolor red-white-black (roughly like the Imperial German) with a red cross or the club of Hercules in the middle of it. One that was close to the current Albanian flag (red with a black double-headed eagle), one that was the same as the current flag of ...Georgia!!!! and many more. The colors that were finally chosen were those of the candidate king of Greece, the Bavarian Otho, and were those of his homeland (blue-white).
3) The design of the flag now, has a very interesting history. During the revolution (but also for some time after) three political parties had been formed in Greece, depending on which great power of those that supported Greece, each one had aligned itself with. The French, Russian and English parties. The proposal for the design of the flag was made by the leader of the "English" party Mavrokordatos, and it was of course the design of the English (attention here, not of Britain but of England, the one with the balanced red cross on a white background), with changed colors. The English design with other colors was also chosen for the merchant fleet flag, while a design based on that of the British East India Company was chosen for the navy flag!
References:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_England
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/British_East_India_Company_flag.svg/1920px-British_East_India_Company_flag.svg.png
www.navalaction.com/flagsgb (look for the Red Ensign Wide)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Greece#Revolutionary_flags
Basically we just realised the new flag was cooler so we kept it
Loving these flag rundown vids! I've been obsessed with vexillology of late, and these scratch that itch very nicely. :)
Saying Alexander the Great was Macedonian rather than Greek is like saying George Washington was Virginian rather than American.
Alexander the Great was Greek
If Alexander wasn't greek then why would his uncle Perdiccas III be allowed to participate in the Panhellenic games?
Alexander was a greek paternally by his father Phillip which by tradition his family were Argivine Greeks and maternally by his mother Olympias, as she was a Molossian Greek from the same family as Pyrrhus of Epirus and he is a greek.
Inb4 *They didn't dilute their wine*
important mistakes: 1) Alexander was Greek by ethnicity. the term Macedonian does not refer to ethnicity but to localism of Greek kimgdom. With the same way Pericles was Athenian and Leonidas Spartan but all of them Geeks 2) blue white was the colors that ancient Athenian Democratic state uses.3) Yes one of the many byzantine flags was this with cross and saint george. Other was golden cross and purple background with 4 Beta greek letters..But the most famous was variations of the dable head eagle (used almost from all east Europe. now) . There was many athers like flag of Pontus or flag with crescent of emblem of Byzantion site which pass to Arabs now
4) The modern flag of Greece it existed as navy flag with various variations in the number of stripes at the same time as the others you mention from 1807.
Alexander the great on entering a conquered city would declare " I am Alexander from Macedon, king of the Greeks" He would say that in GREEK !
Alexander was Macedonian, not Greek. Really? That’s so misleading the least I could do was to unsubscribe!
I'm very sorry to state it, but in my opinion this wasn't as well written script as we're used by you...
The specification for the current flag were written by the National Assembly in 1822 almost a decade before international recognition of Greece, it just happened to have a different use, it wasn't just popular with Greeks outside of Greece. It was used as a naval ensign.
The blue one with the blue cross' intended use was of a civil ensign but it's official status was revoked by Kapodistrias government in 1828 and the striped one was used after that both as a naval ensign, a civil ensign and a flag by civilians.
You're Junta timeline was a bit off... They took control in 1967, so they're the reason for the removal of the crown at that time.
Lastly, calling Alexander not Greek because he was Macedonian is absurd.
You yourself said that Greece wasn't a unified entity. He and his ancestors were speaking Greek, believed to the Olympians and were taking part in the Olympics, the fact that the Macedonian state structure was different than the Athenian one doesn't make them less Greek.
It's ok I already answered to him and he has some homework to do.
I think an interesting video idea would be about dissecting the flags in the book you mentioned, as always great content!
OK, let's settle it once and for all: Macedonia was a Greek Kingdom and Alexander the Great was Greek. He and his people spoke Greek and nothing else than Greek, they wrote Greek, they worshiped Greek gods, their names were Greek and they had the exclusive right of Greeks of taking part to the Olympic games. Alexander's teacher was Aristotel himself, his teachings to Alexander were Greek-centered to the point that his quote to him "πας μη Έλλην βάρβαρος" ("every non-Greek is a barbarian") has survived. Aristotel gave Alexander Homer's Iliad as his graduation gift. Alexander saw Achilleas as his role model. Alexander recognizes himself as Greek, made wars in the name of Greece and settled peace treaties written in stone in the name of Greece! Alexander's first trophies of his wars against Persia were given to Athens as a sign that he revenged the Persian Empire for the destruction of the city of Athens at 480 B.C. He instituted cities in his mother language (how funny: Greek...) that spread Greek language and culture throughout the hole known world of the time. This era was named "Hellenistic", it's in your history books, it's not a conspiracy of the Greeks, it's open knowledge. When Romans expanded found a world unified under a Greek culture and language up to the point that Roman were just spoken for matters of the state and Greek for every other reason.
And after all these you have the nerve coming here and saying that Macedonian and Greek are not the same?... Why not take it further? Peloponissians are not Greeks, they are Peloponissians! Londoners are not English, they are Londoners! Texans are not Americans!
Have you even heard just once the people north of the one and true Greek Macedonia that claim to be "Macedonians"? They speak Bulgarian, a tribe arriving in the peninsula 1000 years after Alexander the Great... They don't even understand what Macedonia, Alexander or Filippos means in their language unless they are given a Greek dictionary. Their land is not even situated where ancient Macedonia lied. Their land was called Paionia in antiquity and they were under Macedon rule under their expansion. More than half of the Ancient world was under Macedonian rule then but I don't see any Egyptians claiming to be Macedonians!
And here is where the issue lies: peoples with no historical achievements tend to grab what lies around and show it as their own.
Just be true to yourself. If Macedonia is seen as something other than Greek, isn't it's existence meteoric? An historic paradox? If it was a dominant civilization what happened to them? Where was its "separate" language and where was it lost? What has it done since then?
There is no such thing as a non-Greek Macedonia my friend. Try Academia since you never set foot on Pella or Dion to see what Macedonia was all about...
You are a bit confused about Greece and Macedonia. To help you understand lets say that Alexander was the first who united all Greek regions sometimes easily and sometimes by force to one united nation just like the 50 stars of your flag. Before him every city was a state. I mean Washington was joined 100 years later than New york . Does it mean they were not Americans?
I wonder if the Greek tradition of painting church domes blue is older than the flag, or is it the other way around? I could imagine the numerous white-blue churches as an inspiration for the choice of colours (perhaps being reinforced by sources from the Greek antiquity, like Athena and Achilles).
The white buildings on some Greek islands appear much later in the first quarter of the 20th c. At the time there was a public ordinance in some regions/islands for buildings to be painted over with lime (which is white) for sanitary reasons. Much later, in the post-war era, there was a promotion to paint the roofs of some houses in the islands blue for a tourist promotion. This was in the 50s during the Greek 'economic miracle.' This trend was later promoted heavily by the Junta in the late 60s, early 70s for nationalistic/propaganda reasons (i.e., using the 'national colours' to promote the actions and narratives of the regime). The white building with the blue roof has become part of the tourist aesthetic on some islands since the 50s and it has effectively stuck. Especially, since many islands continue to depend heavily on tourism.
Before that buildings had the colour of the stone they were built from. Keep in mind than in previous centuries buildings in the Aegean did not try to stand out and were predominantly not placed at the coast. Almost all inhabited areas -- except some port towns in larger islands -- were inland to avoid the notice of pirates. If you go to some less popular islands today you will notice that old (traditional) buildings are made of unpainted stone, while popular islands like Thera/Santorini are almost uniformly white (and blue).
The blue/white designs come from the coat of arms of Bavaria, since Greece was ruled by the king Otto Friedrich Ludwig von Bayern. The bavarian coat of arms looks a bit like a blue/white checkerboard (google for it) and was included in the early coat of arms of Greece in the 19th c. And the flag of Greece is a copy of the flag of the 17th century English East India Company (google for it, too). The flag of the company featured the english red cross of St. George in the canton (upper left angle) and alternating red and white stripes. There were different versions of the flag with 9 to 13 stripes in total. The Greeks stole this design and repaint it to blue and white.
Great view, I never really knew the history of the Greek flag
My man almost had an aneurysm trying to pronounce Palaiologos.
4:20 Macedonia was as Greek as any other city state at that time so Alexander was Greek
Personally, I think the old one is way better
both greek flags actually coexist, but the simpler one has just 'lost groung'
1:49 Sepah (Sipah) is the old Persian name (still using in different context) by which army called.
Alexander the great was Greek how many times shall we repeat this
At least it didn't vanish
"History" with Hilbert
*proceeds to claim that Alexander the Great was not Greek but Macedonian*
I've watched your videos for some time. I've missed this one and just found it on new year's eve. I am Greek and interested in flags (Vexillology) quite a bit, so I was quite surprised and eager when I noticed it. I am beyond disappointed on how casually you just spat out unfounded fabrications without a second thought, and I did see the comment you pinned with a retraction, if that's what you would call it. A lot of countries and people have extreme ultranationalist narratives with absurd claims, but usually are based on some basic historical reality (and in most European countries today are kept at the fringe). There are even some Greeks making some in their comments bellow who (rightly) were angered by your comment in the video, but then go on and make absurd claims of their own. Nevertheless, no matter any absurd and ahistorical connections they make connecting Greek antiquity with modern Greece, there is the undisputed fact of the various Greek-speaking states and communities (both city and tribal-states, like Athens and Macedonia correspondingly) that actually existed in antiquity across the Greek peninsula, the Aegean, Anatolia, Southern Italy, and around the Mediterranean and the Black Sea.
The Slav-Macedonian ultra-nationalist narratives enjoy the rare honour of being almost completely fabricated. A bit over a century ago almost all the Slavs of Ottoman Macedonia identified as (ethnic) Bulgarians with some (mainly educated and bilingual ones) considering themselves Romans (i.e. Greeks). They called their language Bulgarian and were part of the Orthodox (Roman-Rum) community of the Ottoman Empire. With the rise of modern Balkan Christian nationalisms the vast majority of them came to identify as Bulgarians and you can find pictures of them from the late 19th, early 20th c. holding pictures of the Bulgarian Tsar (which was at the time a national symbol akin to a flag or banner). These are more or less the historical realities beyond later imagined and constructed narratives or identities. I am not denying the existence of the modern Slav-Macedonian people or separate identity as it developed over the course of the 20th c., especially under communist Yugoslavia. But I strongly opposed the fabricated narratives that have been formed and the attempts to monopolize and appropriate the history and name of an ancient Greek kingdom that happens to have given its name to the region they and their ancestors have lived in along with many other communities and groups.
Think of it this way. Forget all the different narratives and where the region gets its name for a minute. Why would you promote -- which is what you essentially did here with one smirk comment -- the attempts to monopolize the name and history of a region by one state (no matter what state that is)? Especially when the aforementioned state only includes a small part of that region in its actual territory (around 10%) and its overall population is only a fraction of the region's population -- the majority of which lives in another state and is ethnically different. What I am trying to say is that there is no middle ground here. I am not criticizing you for calling Slav-Macedonians 'Macedonians,' this is a common albeit unfortunate trend. But your comment, besides utterly ignorant and unnecessary shows criminal negligence in promoting ultranationalist fabrications in a very controversial issue. And this from a respected channel and content creator who deals primarily with historical issues!
I am a graduate student in history (Modern Europe) and I understand that nobody can be an expert in so many fields, even in their own discipline. However, the casual way that you made the comment and the complete ignorance that is showed is staggering. I would strongly advise you to re-upload or just delete the video until you can make it properly. There are actually some inaccuracies on the details for the post-war era as well (around the period of the Junta). I am not telling you to retract, although you kind half-heartedly did. Only to re-upload the video without half-arsed comments that peddle fabricated narratives -- excuse my French.
P.s. Although there are many apocryphal stories that have been made up about the 'Greek colours,' the educated guess is that they were chosen to contrast the various banners and flags flown by the Ottomans which were mostly red and Green. Also, I believe it's important to clearly say that the (modern) Greek flag was the naval ensign when you introduce it. This can provide a logical connection (and understanding) why this specific flag was used extensively out of the country in an era when travel (and trade) in the Mediterranean was made primarily with ships. Also, I don't think you name the short-lived (merchant) civil ensign with the inverted colours. On a final note, in the original declaration about the flag, the 'land flag' was square, this why the canton on the 'sea flag,' that is the naval ensign in English terminology, is square to this day. The infantry War Flags of the Hellenic (Greek) Army use this pattern with the addition of Saint George in the middle of the cross. (After all, a 'Greek Cross' has arms of equal length.) I apologize if you found my rant too 'strong.'
You should make a video of your own.
This is cool
Hello Hilbert, thank you for posting another interesting video!
Pointing out the obvious, i would kindly like to remind you that an in depth research is much needed before creating your content.
To be more specific:
1) Around 1:00 you are showing an Eastern Roman flag (Palaiologian dynasty of the 14th century) claiming that includes some "firestarters". Those "firestarters" are called πυρεκβόλα = flamethrowers and they are resembling the Greek letter Βήτα - Víta (the sound of the letter B in Greek has the sound of V). They are the acronyms of the phrase: "Βασιλεύς Βασιλέων, Βασιλεύων Βασιλευόντων" meaning "King of Kings ruling over the kings/rulers", although some historians provide alternative interpretations of the 4 B.
2)Around 4:13 you are referring to Alexander the Great: "although of course he is Macedonian rather than Greek" and you continue "but this doesn't seem to have stopped the idea...". I enjoy watching the content you are creating for quite some time and you gave me the impression of an intelligent and highly educated person.....
In case you need your viewers to post comments in order to boost your channel's YT ranking please don't follow Kings & Generals dubious methods by creating flame wars between Greeks and peasant bulgarian speakers of the North Pseudomakedonski diaspora in the comments section (they use phrases like Alexander wasn't Greek but at the end he was Greek to fire them up).
You can politely ask for our support like History March YT does in such a clever way: Please leave a comment as a sacrifice to the algorithm.
To cut the story short the flag with the white cross on the blue background was the first standard Hellenic flag with the white color representing the land forces of the Greek independence rebels and the blue the naval forces. In present times the Hellenic Navy is using it.
Thank you again for your excellent videos (that require hours of research, narration, graphics creation and editing- we really appreciate it!!!)
I am looking forward for the next!
Ancient Macedonians were ethnic Greeks. Aristotle being the private tutor of Alexander the Great.
Saying that Alexander is from Macedonia and not from Greece is like saying someone is from California and not from the US
Alexander was Greek. Macedonia was a region of ancient Greece like Peloponisos, Crete and others. That is why they participated at the Olympic games who only Greek citizens were allowed to participate. They worshipped Greek gods and talked greek language. The wannabe slavo Macedonians came to these places about 1000 years after Alexander. Please do not misinform people at social media. Thank you.
4.13...The entire regionof Macedonia in norther Greece is suddenly enraged !!!
nah that's ALL OF GREECE
A history of the flags of Iraq/Mesopotamia would be interesting to cover.
Fascinating
You should also include the Greek flag of Cyprus 1821. It is of great historical importance.
Why do you make a deliberate distinction between ancient Macedonia and Greece? Ancient Macedonians were certainly Hellenic people's, and while the views of what was and wasn't Greek varied from community to community, and even what a Greek or Hellenic identity could be varied vastly, by modern standards or the Macedonians certainly fit into the category of Greek or Hellenes. Especially following Phillip II and Alexander where it is nearly undisputed that Macedonia was a part of Greece.
It just seems like a weird thing to point out, almost like something someone conflating modern northern Macedonia with ancient Macedonia would accidentally do.
The sicilian flag and all the other flags where the head with the 3 legs appears would be a very interesting topic
the way I ran to the comments when he said that alexander the gteat wasn't greek but macedonian 💀
It's a beautiful flag.
NOTIFICATION GANG RISE UP!
Alexander and
his father Philip had taken part in the Olympics and both had won busts . Their language was the Greek, as it was the language of the Spartans,the Cretans,the Corinthians ect. All those were separate kingdoms,but didn’t stop them from being Greek.Alexander burned Babylon as revenge to the Persians burning Athens....
Great video. You seem like a well to do guy and you got a sub from me 👍
We are working on it, thank you for commenting.
Bozo really said Alexander was Macedonian and not Greek hahah
4:16 yo wtf are you serious? Macedonians are Greeks, Macedonia was a Greek state like Athens and Sparta. Study history more
"Pythagoras was Ionian, not Greek"
"Leonidas was Sparta, not Greek"
Saying Alexander wasn't Greek its insane inaccuracy...
only someone who lacks of a basic history degree would say that Macedonians were not Dorian Tribe and therefore Hellenic.
The old flag just looks so much nicer
I was early on the Italian flag video too, I don't even have notifications on, I'm just lucky LOL
This flag we have today its just a blue and white version of the flag of the British East India company.
This flag was proposed after Kapodistrias death by Alexander Mavrokordatos to show that we were English supporters.More like another english protectorate as it came to be...
I subscribed and took it back when I heard you saying that Alexander was not Greek
i love Greece