Of course a Berkeley company would make their coffee roaster fit inside a server rack. Can't wait to see combination datacenter/coffee roasters start to pop up.
@@DrDeFord Actually, maybe they can capture the heat from the servers and feed the roaster, reducing the amount of energy the roaster may otherwise consume.
Lease a Bellwether Roaster for as low as $1,150 a month for 60 months. At the end of your lease you have the option to purchase, or lease a new roaster and continue financing.
My local favorite roaster turned coffee shop owner just added one. I picked up some decaf and espresso roast. What I have tried is excellent! This machine in the hands of an experienced roaster is resulting in some great cups.
Fascinating. It seems kind of like a fridge-sized Ikawa roaster. I'm excited by the direction these smaller electric roasters seem to be leading toward: the decentralisation of wholesale coffee roasting with automated profiles set by peers, with the possibility of increasingly direct green coffee trade. I wonder if they'll make a domestic model (0.5-1 kg)?
Do you know the power consumption of this device? How long does it take to roast a batch? I would like to calculate the energy equivalent to a standard roasting machine.
ChePennyDK Just curious how growing a pair is going to get the world off of fossil fuel. Wind, solar and Nuclear can’t keep up with the ever evolving and growing energy needs of mankind. Coal, oil, LNG are still a much needed option for all of us. Just growing a pair solves nothing.
I just happen to have built a custom roaster myself and having gone through the challenges of getting sufficient heat from electrical sources, given the right design for optimal energy distribution I really think a 15-30 kg electric roaster is not impossible. Once again great video!
@@GermanMythbuster I see. thanks! (in case you answered for the 15-30kg roaster) 7kw is what other electric roasters use for 5-8kg. you need to improve a lot on the efficiency level, otherwise it won't roast properly. (improve in comparison to existing roasters)
In the interests of full disclosure; I design and make coffee roasters All props to the folks at Bellwether, it looks like they've done a great job. The golden fleece of roasting has been to be able to create that "smokeless" roaster. So far, all the units that I have encountered, leave their signature ABR (already been roasted) flavor on the final product. My many experiments with heating by electrical resistance, have always ended in frustration and failed heating units. To achieve your dream of roasters running strictly on electricity will also require elevated voltages, beyond what is commonly available now. So, I look forward to tasting some finished product.
Thanks for posting this James and good to see you during your visit to Bellwether. Thrilled to have your advisement on this machine! As you know I'll have one at my coffee venue in Denver, CO mid-February 2019 and another later that year in Breckenridge, CO. Happy to share my results with you or anyone else. The Denver location is at ~1,600 meters and the Breckenridge location is at ~2,900 meters. Curious about how air density will play a roll on the roasts and how to keep both roasters in sync with set recipes. Looking forward to the future of roasting.
Hey Steve, just wanted to check in to see if you were able to get one of these roasters set up? We're looking for something along these lines up here in Calgary and we're hoping to see some real-world feedback if anyone has experience.
+ electricity production is at most around 40% efficient, so electricity for heating makes little to no sense in terms of energy efficiency / emissions unless the vast majority of said electricity comes from emission-free sources
@3:30 I hope the localization of experience comes back. "This town has more citrusy coffee, hey go 2 miles down the road, they set up their machine to roast more chocolately flavors" ( I have no idea how roasting works). Everything tastes the same from place to place, I hope this distribution brings back some uniqueness.
naah, chocolatey or citrusey is more dependant on the green itself... the roaster job is to help shine and bring out the inherent attributes of the bean, which changes flavors depending on how and where it was grown and it's drying or washing process... from there on is about how clean, smokeyless, and well you can balance those bean flavors, but you can't invent what's not there
Thank you James for the great informative videos you make. In this video, the beans seems to be moving far quicker than the familiar speed inside traditional roasters. Did you notice any unusual damage to coffee beans?
Impressive design an enineering approach; using electricity seems pretty clean, it just cleans the roastery environment, however, electricity comes from burning fuels, among which: gas. So an electric roaster, just endorses the gas burning issue to the energy company. The electric roaster approach it is actually not (as claimed by the manufacturer) "emmisions free" but quite the oposite, more gas is needed to produce the electricity required to roast, compared to the gas burned by the roaster itself for the same quantity of beans. Efficiency is taxed everytime there is an energy transformation (fosil fuels to electricity and then to roaster's heat). Nonetheless, this roaster promotes convenience (no vents, no permits, no afterburnets, plug-n-play) which is true. Other sources of energy and higly efficient systems would be an important step towards not using or minimizing gas in shop or mid sized roasters; recirculation or recovery of heat to pre-heat or maintain base energetic requirements (cogeneration), alternatively burning the chaff (as they do when producing sugar with the sugarcane bagasse in sugar, panela and "bio" energy production). Thanks for your input :)
Well... it's as green as your electricity mix. So probably better to run this in Brazil or France than the US or Netherlands. But the entire point of going electric is that you can switch to renewable electricity a lot more easily than renewable gas. Asserting the electricity will just come from gas for the foreseeable future is at best pessimistic and at worst disingenuous. Some heat exchangers and heat pumps would be nice though.
Great video, James. I was wondering if you were familiar with Stronghold roasters, which roast coffee using convection, radiation, and conduction, also eliminating the need for a gas line. I discovered them at the New York Coffee Festival and they were showing their different size units, but I'm also intrigued by Bellwether, which operates on basically the same principle. I haven't done too much in-depth research into Stronghold, but I'm very interested and invested in the future of roasting away from using gas lines. I'd love to see Bellwether and other similar companies take off, and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with us!
All of you caffien heads out there....how disappointed will you be when you have to replace your heating element, which you will have to do, if you use your roaster on a regular basis. Unless these companies use tantalum based heat sources, operating at 460 V 3 phase, they will be inefficient and unreliable.
This could be very interesting. Not only on what you mentioned, but the fact that there are a lot of people who roast coffee, that in my personal opinion are not the most skilled in the world. This could allow the really great roasters to remotely roast coffee. The potential I see is a lot more coffee shops or distributors would be able to purchase green coffee and then set the roasting cycle based on the criteria created by an expert (who is either selling the green coffee, or receives a commission from the green coffee supplier) and allow more coffee shop to provide freshly roasted coffee than has been expertly roasted, rather than the sometimes poor quality roast that sometimes exist due either to a lack of top quality roasters in the local area or just an unwillingness by the coffee shop to pay the premium to hire a top quality roaster.
Do you ever roast your own beans? There's a few home roasters I saw on Amazon. The best coffee I ever had I harvested, processed and roasted myself. I lived in Kona for a while on a friend's coffee, papaya, banana plantation and learned about the whole process. The main thing is that any coffee loses half it's flavor after a week once it's been roasted. Only thing is finding a place that will sell unroasted beans 🫘 not in Hawaii.
Thanks for taking us along and keeping us up to date on this exciting venture! Did you get a chance to sample some of their end products? Any comments. Cheers😉
@@jameshoffmann of course cherry for cherry, the source/ origin is as important if not more than the roasting. Thx again for all your news on innovations in the coffee industry!
how do they get rid of the smoke? 1. afterburner 2. scrubber, 3. filter (all of these?) an afterburner takes a lot of energy and the air needs to be cooled down to roasting temp if it will be recycled back into the roasting chamber.
i think it will be interesting to see the affects this has on the coffee industry as a whole. if it happens that the roasting does indeed become more distributed, would that not cut out the need for independent roasters as coffee shops start dealing directly with the farms that supply the green beans. could it be that instead of purchasing and roasting coffee, then sending it to coffee shops, perhaps a new business forms which currates the raw beans and sells these to coffee shops alongside suggested roasting methods. however, i think a big factor in this is wether coffee shops actually go along with roasting coffee in store more frequently, i would love it but i also imagine the time and money it would take to properly train staff to roast coffee for particular tastes may prevent it from gaining mass appeal. i can more realistically see a higher number of speciality coffee shops roasting thier own coffee, but most just buying roasted coffee from an independent roaster such as today
I think you will see more of these DIY roasters in the marketplace. I don't think it will put much of a dent in the traditional craft roasting wholesaler.
It's the data aspect of this that really intrigues me. I'd be interested in seeing some machine learning applied to this to help roasters refine their coffee roasts.
A huge issue I have with our industry is the lack of consistency and precision inherit in coffee roasting. A temperature probe and some software on Mac isn't enough to make reliably consistent roasts. Do you think the technology that they're developing will help coffee roasting companies be more precise/make it easier to be precise?
Most artisan coffee roasters are luddites. Hell they roast coffee with technology from 1830. Real information and control, robs the artisan of his/her glamorous drama. Why change when every roast is an adventure and you "know" when to drop the load because your sphincter clenches.
While this roaster may not run on fossil fuels we still most consider the source of the mains/electricity. Only when fossil fuels are entirely removed from the chain should this (and other like devices) be considered a non-fossil fuel application. The electricity has to come from somewhere. What I like from this brief peek behind the curtain is that the Bellwether is regenerative to an extent. That's a huge plus in my book as it not only aids operating cost but can be used to help stabilize internal temps from batch-to-batch.
And negatively affects the flavor of the coffee. All roasters that redeposit roast chamber air do this. The only way to prevent this is to use this heated air on the aspiration side to the flame generating the heat. The temperatures created by an electrical resistance are insufficient to scrub the recycled effluent.
Would this kind of roasting still require the coffee to 'rest' a few days before grinding? I'm thinking of way into the future when smaller versions could be in homes.
This popped up in my feed and got me thinking about decentralized coffee roasting. Do you think you'll talk about home roasting & home roasting equipment?
Go Bears! Berkeley has a really great coffee scene. Obviously, Peet's started there, but there are some really cool little independent shops and roasters too. I would recommend Ruby's Roast for a roaster, and Gold Leaf Cafe and Artis for coffee shops.
Hey, that's my neck of the woods! If you come back, I'd love to say 'Hi' and am happy to offer any suggestions. I'm curious about the potential for automation. Given the greater number of sensors, and easier ability to control electric heat, do you think this will lead to more repeatable, or possibly automatable roasting? I know some of the smaller "desktop"-sized electric roasters have been trying to do such things, but I'm not sure what to expect since the green source is obviously a huge variable.
I have built roasters that were designed to be capable of unattended roasting. They are not. There are too many what if issues in a roast to assign control to a plc or ipc.
Still question the horizontal drum approach if bean to bean evenness and heat transfer efficiency are considered. So much is possible with mechanical agitation.
I've always wondered how much gas - burned or unburned enters the roasting chamber and into the product. These gases contain carcinogens and am curious how this aspect also plays into studies that allege "coffee causes cancer" - did California compare hot air roasted coffees with gas roasted coffees? Light roasted versus dark roasted? I suspect not. Let's just label all product.
No gas burner is 100% efficient. I think this is an area that Bellwether would do well to explore. My point is that I question wether studies into alleged 'cancer causing' properties of coffee - such as Acrylamide take into consideration the gas used to roast the coffee and / or the roasting level. Just as with any food, the extent to which it is cooked affects the level of of these compounds which are detected.
@@jameshoffmann How many roaster mechanics utilize a professional combustion analyzer? Using one of the devices allows the mechanic to dial in the quality of the air/gas mixture. Once this is properly set, you still will have byproducts of natural/propane gas combustion, that you CAN taste on the beans. Almost no one compares air roasted coffee to drum roasted coffee. The cardinal sin of not following the scaa formula is more rebellious than artisan roasters are willing to commit to. Almost all air roasting experience has been limited to the poorly made, STUPID (no controls) Sivetz (random spouting bed, not fluid bed), so who can blame them.
If you want to roast locally, what about a Bonaverde "Berlin"? The first generation works well but still has a lot of minor (mostly software) details that should be improved.
All of our electricity is still made by burning fossil fuels, so it will be a long time until small batch electric becomes an environmentally conscious thing to do.
@Nolan Takle lol, You're kidding yourself. 98% of global energy is made from non-renewables and it takes almost as much fossil fuel energy to build a solar panel or wind turbine as they produce. Even if you produce 99% of your energy from renewables in your little corner of the world it makes no difference to anything and can't be imitated by everyone else.
Kai Hendry cost of roasted coffee and a huge appetite for it is ultimately what drove me to roast my own coffee on the stove in Japan. Perhaps you should consider the same, but you have all those wonderful kopitiam in Singapore.
@@sugameltpastriescoffee7186 I'm familiar with Nylon, but their online stuff like Pappahleta is abysmal. I'm based in the East, so it's too painful to go out there. Also I think they sell their stuff for 20SGD for 250g like everyone else.
But if a number of shops all use these, is that more environmentally better than one location using their roasters at full capacity. Seems to me this isn’t nearly as efficient as it First looks.
And..........where does the electricity come from to power the Bellwether machine? As noted below (or above): From Burning Gas! Jeez, you probably all drive electric cars too.
Yes, but you have to understand that electricity from the grid and electricity from smaller machines or cars are extremely different. Power plants are made to produce power and make money, but that comes with harsh regulations and high end technology to greatly reduce their carbon footprint. even though the amount of CO2 produced from that power plant to roast coffee or charge an electric car is still significant, it is greatly less than the footprint what thousands of cars or thousands of roasters would make. Nothing is an absolute win, but we can advance in marginal growth and it’s closing minded mindsets like yours that is prolonging our advancement.
Were you able to explore Berkeley at all? I just graduated from UC Berkeley recently and Algorithm Coffee Co. on University was always worth the 20 minute bus ride from my apartment. Very interesting look into what Bellwether's doing! I had no idea they existed.
I really cant see how this machine will make roasting scene more eco-friendly. I dont think 80 x 3kg roaster would have less carbon footprint than a single 240kg gas-running classic roaster until a time where people produce %80 of electricity from renewable sources(which wont happen probably for another 30-40 years). preheating times alone will kill any argument about them being "eco-friendly". Lets assume a somewhat short preheating time of 15 min for this machine. It would make a total of 20 hours of empty running of these machines to match the capacity of a 240kg roaster. In a 240kg roaster, you could roast almost 8 tonnes of coffee before those machines even start roasting a single bean.
In general, most electricity is won by burning coal or using nuclear power plants, so it isn't environmentaly friendly either. Only way is to just source "green" electricity. In most parts of the world perhaps impossible.
The UK grid has had weeks at a time without coal. Your point regarding nuclear needs explaining. Most parts of the world have sunshine and/or winds, maybe use less electricity on windless cloudy days?
I’m not sure about your comments on the comparative environmental friendliness of this roaster. As most of the electricity on the grid comes from coal burning power plants, the higher electricity usage of this machine would actually be worse for the environmental than a similar size propane or NG roaster.
I think the idea is more future-oriented, or at least that's the ethos. He did allude to the future of roasting, after all. Provided that energy production is less fossil-oriented-- let's be clear: it'll need to be based around the resurgence of nuclear development at least for the foreseeable future-- then it holds that there is veracity in there having been foresight with a design _like_ the one depicted
What's the response time with how it reacts to changes in temperature? I don't know anything about roasting so this might not make sense. I know that with gas you can go from high to low super quickly but with electricity you kind of have to do more guessing with knowing when to shut it off. Does this question apply? lol
I have never experienced a time lag using electrical resistance heating. They also are easily controlable. They also have no toxic emissions. They don't last, they are unreliable. They have real limitations, you can't do large scale roasting, 5 - 6 lbs max for reasonable roast times.
I have always appreciated your avoidance of political issues...I find this video to be a departure of your normal presentations. My background is molecular biology and ecology. Apparently you don't clearly understand fossil fuels and sustainability.
where does electricity come from?????? (hint, not Solar cells). Take five steps back, and re-evaluate. How many child labor deaths are worth the cobalt that it took to make the batteries for a single industrial use solar unit? I can't fault fair trade coffee, but let's talk about fair trade minerals, If you wanna be honest. I like alternatives to "fossil fuels" if they do not cause more harm than good, (take look at nickle mining). I like you, Jim, you have an independent brain, you are actually one of the last of your kind.
I think this is a gimmick. The price of that thing must be astronomical. Think of the heat generated... None of it is vented outside. You're gonna need another AC unit just to keep up with it!
Regarding the heat, I think it's somewhat hinted at that it's much of it is not being vented from the unit during roasting. A quick Google search confirms the hot air is recirculated in the unit during roasting.
@@theungoliant9410 I presume it is let out into the room, however, I don't think that is what you were refering to before - you aren't going to need a 2nd AC to deal with a few litres of hot air, it's probably comparable to openning a preheated oven at home.
@@natfailsyoutube8163 lol maybe it's more than a few liters of hot air.. maybe the whole machine is a heat sink and will slowly radiate out all the heat stored. Maybe energy can neither be created nor destroyed. But whateves, I guess you schooled me..
@@theungoliant9410 I'm not trying to troll you, It seemed to me that you were comparing it to a roaster where air is heated, heats the beans and then is exhausted. Like trying to heat your home with all your windows open... anyway I don't much care about this device so yeah whatevs
The white blurred background that was very bright, and the redness on the skin. This made me feel very uncomfortable. Just saying. Love your videos by the way.
Electricity ??? I am afraid that is not a green alternative ,, 27% of world carbon footprint comes from electricity production & Wind and Solar are extremely expensive . If Bellweather is counting on the electrical angle it will sadly end up dissapointed.
true, BUT... if we switch to electric now, we can focus on efficient operation and other features we will need for the future. because energy will come from SOLAR power in the future and then it will be eco friendly and with way less carbon footprint.
Solar has noproven itself to be reliable , nor feasible and cost effective ,( just ask Germany ) not to mention the impact on the environment from solar use - Same goes for wind power ( Germany tied taht as well) . The world and our standard of living requires cheap energy not energy at any price . To switch over to electricity a ramping up of electrical producing plants will be required ,,which will mean more fossil fuels being burnt thus making the switch to electrical futile . There has been a Australian study on a possible mass switch to electric cars . The study concluded that after a 3 trillion dollars worth of investement an unimaginable nightmare of garbage waste , ( the discarded old cars ) the net gain in carbon footprint would be 3%. Not even close to what is needed. @@jpjay1584
Batteries need to be far more cost-efficient than they are at the moment for this tech to really take off. They would also need to operate more reliably. Panels need to get really good at harvesting energy even when it’s not sunny out. Not long now... I hope.
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Of course a Berkeley company would make their coffee roaster fit inside a server rack. Can't wait to see combination datacenter/coffee roasters start to pop up.
Heat is already a big issue in data centers; adding a coffee roaster would be the opposite of a good idea.
@@DrDeFord Actually, maybe they can capture the heat from the servers and feed the roaster, reducing the amount of energy the roaster may otherwise consume.
My favorite local coffee shop has one of these machines and i can confirm it makes a great cup of coffee.
It makes coffee too?!
keen to see a revisit of this video, James.
Hmm?
James, the knowledge, opinions and production quality of your videos are great. Keep it coming!
Lease a Bellwether Roaster for as low as $1,150 a month for 60 months. At the end of your lease you have the option to purchase, or lease a new roaster and continue financing.
My local favorite roaster turned coffee shop owner just added one. I picked up some decaf and espresso roast. What I have tried is excellent! This machine in the hands of an experienced roaster is resulting in some great cups.
Fascinating. It seems kind of like a fridge-sized Ikawa roaster.
I'm excited by the direction these smaller electric roasters seem to be leading toward: the decentralisation of wholesale coffee roasting with automated profiles set by peers, with the possibility of increasingly direct green coffee trade.
I wonder if they'll make a domestic model (0.5-1 kg)?
This is remarkable, thank you for this glimpse into the future of coffee roasting.
Do you know the power consumption of this device? How long does it take to roast a batch? I would like to calculate the energy equivalent to a standard roasting machine.
Doesn't really matter that much how many watts a machine use in the long run, the world just needs to grow a pair and ban all non green power tech!
@@ChePennyDK Just purchased my BC 3.5 propane gas roaster!
ChePennyDK Just curious how growing a pair is going to get the world off of fossil fuel. Wind, solar and Nuclear can’t keep up with the ever evolving and growing energy needs of mankind.
Coal, oil, LNG are still a much needed option for all of us.
Just growing a pair solves nothing.
I just happen to have built a custom roaster myself and having gone through the challenges of getting sufficient heat from electrical sources, given the right design for optimal energy distribution I really think a 15-30 kg electric roaster is not impossible. Once again great video!
wow!
what wattage are you thinking of?
@@jpjay1584 In the range of 7KW
@@GermanMythbuster I see. thanks! (in case you answered for the 15-30kg roaster)
7kw is what other electric roasters use for 5-8kg.
you need to improve a lot on the efficiency level, otherwise it won't roast properly. (improve in comparison to existing roasters)
In the interests of full disclosure; I design and make coffee roasters
All props to the folks at Bellwether, it looks like they've done a great job.
The golden fleece of roasting has been to be able to create that "smokeless" roaster.
So far, all the units that I have encountered, leave their signature ABR (already been roasted) flavor on the final product.
My many experiments with heating by electrical resistance, have always ended in frustration and failed heating units.
To achieve your dream of roasters running strictly on electricity will also require elevated voltages, beyond what is commonly available now.
So, I look forward to tasting some finished product.
I've had a few coffees from different cafes using these roasters and have been pretty well pleased so far
Thanks for posting this James and good to see you during your visit to Bellwether. Thrilled to have your advisement on this machine! As you know I'll have one at my coffee venue in Denver, CO mid-February 2019 and another later that year in Breckenridge, CO. Happy to share my results with you or anyone else. The Denver location is at ~1,600 meters and the Breckenridge location is at ~2,900 meters. Curious about how air density will play a roll on the roasts and how to keep both roasters in sync with set recipes. Looking forward to the future of roasting.
Hey Steve, just wanted to check in to see if you were able to get one of these roasters set up? We're looking for something along these lines up here in Calgary and we're hoping to see some real-world feedback if anyone has experience.
@@benmacdonald5625 Just installed one in Vancouver in February, currently with 68 operational units in the field with more deploying every week.
Imagine a smaller version in homes and workplaces.... Very interesting. 100% Japan will have these in the street, vending machine style.
One point to keep in mind is that in the US roughly 60% of electricity is made by burning natural gas
+ electricity production is at most around 40% efficient, so electricity for heating makes little to no sense in terms of energy efficiency / emissions unless the vast majority of said electricity comes from emission-free sources
@3:30 I hope the localization of experience comes back. "This town has more citrusy coffee, hey go 2 miles down the road, they set up their machine to roast more chocolately flavors" ( I have no idea how roasting works). Everything tastes the same from place to place, I hope this distribution brings back some uniqueness.
naah, chocolatey or citrusey is more dependant on the green itself... the roaster job is to help shine and bring out the inherent attributes of the bean, which changes flavors depending on how and where it was grown and it's drying or washing process... from there on is about how clean, smokeyless, and well you can balance those bean flavors, but you can't invent what's not there
Thank you James for the great informative videos you make. In this video, the beans seems to be moving far quicker than the familiar speed inside traditional roasters. Did you notice any unusual damage to coffee beans?
Impressive design an enineering approach; using electricity seems pretty clean, it just cleans the roastery environment, however, electricity comes from burning fuels, among which: gas.
So an electric roaster, just endorses the gas burning issue to the energy company. The electric roaster approach it is actually not (as claimed by the manufacturer) "emmisions free" but quite the oposite, more gas is needed to produce the electricity required to roast, compared to the gas burned by the roaster itself for the same quantity of beans. Efficiency is taxed everytime there is an energy transformation (fosil fuels to electricity and then to roaster's heat). Nonetheless, this roaster promotes convenience (no vents, no permits, no afterburnets, plug-n-play) which is true.
Other sources of energy and higly efficient systems would be an important step towards not using or minimizing gas in shop or mid sized roasters; recirculation or recovery of heat to pre-heat or maintain base energetic requirements (cogeneration), alternatively burning the chaff (as they do when producing sugar with the sugarcane bagasse in sugar, panela and "bio" energy production).
Thanks for your input :)
Well... it's as green as your electricity mix. So probably better to run this in Brazil or France than the US or Netherlands. But the entire point of going electric is that you can switch to renewable electricity a lot more easily than renewable gas. Asserting the electricity will just come from gas for the foreseeable future is at best pessimistic and at worst disingenuous.
Some heat exchangers and heat pumps would be nice though.
Was Bellwether not the name of the PMC in Deus Ex: Mankind Divided?
Great video, James. I was wondering if you were familiar with Stronghold roasters, which roast coffee using convection, radiation, and conduction, also eliminating the need for a gas line. I discovered them at the New York Coffee Festival and they were showing their different size units, but I'm also intrigued by Bellwether, which operates on basically the same principle. I haven't done too much in-depth research into Stronghold, but I'm very interested and invested in the future of roasting away from using gas lines. I'd love to see Bellwether and other similar companies take off, and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with us!
You should try Aillio from Taïwan
All of you caffien heads out there....how disappointed will you be when you have to replace your heating element, which you will have to do, if you use your roaster on a regular basis.
Unless these companies use tantalum based heat sources, operating at 460 V 3 phase, they will be inefficient and unreliable.
@@marinasantorelli7224 Thanks, I'll look into them!
future is always unpredictable, but would love to see it in our lab :D thanks for the video
This could be very interesting. Not only on what you mentioned, but the fact that there are a lot of people who roast coffee, that in my personal opinion are not the most skilled in the world. This could allow the really great roasters to remotely roast coffee. The potential I see is a lot more coffee shops or distributors would be able to purchase green coffee and then set the roasting cycle based on the criteria created by an expert (who is either selling the green coffee, or receives a commission from the green coffee supplier) and allow more coffee shop to provide freshly roasted coffee than has been expertly roasted, rather than the sometimes poor quality roast that sometimes exist due either to a lack of top quality roasters in the local area or just an unwillingness by the coffee shop to pay the premium to hire a top quality roaster.
Side note; liking the editing in your recent uploads
Do you ever roast your own beans?
There's a few home roasters I saw on Amazon. The best coffee I ever had I harvested, processed and roasted myself. I lived in Kona for a while on a friend's coffee, papaya, banana plantation and learned about the whole process. The main thing is that any coffee loses half it's flavor after a week once it's been roasted.
Only thing is finding a place that will sell unroasted beans 🫘 not in Hawaii.
I found out recently that Sip and Sonder coffee near Los Angeles International Airport roasts on a Bellwether. I am excited to go try it.
Thanks for taking us along and keeping us up to date on this exciting venture! Did you get a chance to sample some of their end products? Any comments. Cheers😉
@@jameshoffmann of course cherry for cherry, the source/ origin is as important if not more than the roasting. Thx again for all your news on innovations in the coffee industry!
how do they get rid of the smoke? 1. afterburner 2. scrubber, 3. filter (all of these?)
an afterburner takes a lot of energy and the air needs to be cooled down to roasting temp if it will be recycled back into the roasting chamber.
i think it will be interesting to see the affects this has on the coffee industry as a whole. if it happens that the roasting does indeed become more distributed, would that not cut out the need for independent roasters as coffee shops start dealing directly with the farms that supply the green beans. could it be that instead of purchasing and roasting coffee, then sending it to coffee shops, perhaps a new business forms which currates the raw beans and sells these to coffee shops alongside suggested roasting methods. however, i think a big factor in this is wether coffee shops actually go along with roasting coffee in store more frequently, i would love it but i also imagine the time and money it would take to properly train staff to roast coffee for particular tastes may prevent it from gaining mass appeal. i can more realistically see a higher number of speciality coffee shops roasting thier own coffee, but most just buying roasted coffee from an independent roaster such as today
I think you will see more of these DIY roasters in the marketplace.
I don't think it will put much of a dent in the traditional craft roasting wholesaler.
It's the data aspect of this that really intrigues me. I'd be interested in seeing some machine learning applied to this to help roasters refine their coffee roasts.
A huge issue I have with our industry is the lack of consistency and precision inherit in coffee roasting. A temperature probe and some software on Mac isn't enough to make reliably consistent roasts. Do you think the technology that they're developing will help coffee roasting companies be more precise/make it easier to be precise?
Most artisan coffee roasters are luddites.
Hell they roast coffee with technology from 1830.
Real information and control, robs the artisan of his/her glamorous drama.
Why change when every roast is an adventure and you "know" when to drop the load because your sphincter clenches.
While this roaster may not run on fossil fuels we still most consider the source of the mains/electricity. Only when fossil fuels are entirely removed from the chain should this (and other like devices) be considered a non-fossil fuel application. The electricity has to come from somewhere. What I like from this brief peek behind the curtain is that the Bellwether is regenerative to an extent. That's a huge plus in my book as it not only aids operating cost but can be used to help stabilize internal temps from batch-to-batch.
And you can almost always taste that redeposited effluent.
And negatively affects the flavor of the coffee. All roasters that redeposit roast chamber air do this.
The only way to prevent this is to use this heated air on the aspiration side to the flame generating the heat.
The temperatures created by an electrical resistance are insufficient to scrub the recycled effluent.
Just saw one of these in St. Petersburg, FL & it was super impressive & made delicious roast.
Ask if they need more help! I love this kinds of projects and would be a great opportunity to share and learn
Very interesting, I'm excited about this.
Would this kind of roasting still require the coffee to 'rest' a few days before grinding? I'm thinking of way into the future when smaller versions could be in homes.
This popped up in my feed and got me thinking about decentralized coffee roasting. Do you think you'll talk about home roasting & home roasting equipment?
Go Bears! Berkeley has a really great coffee scene. Obviously, Peet's started there, but there are some really cool little independent shops and roasters too. I would recommend Ruby's Roast for a roaster, and Gold Leaf Cafe and Artis for coffee shops.
Off topic question: what song is playing at the beginning?
What do you think about the future of aged coffee?
Im very curious. How much this machine will cost?
Electric roasters have been around forever, in fact I started roasting on an electric roaster and switched to a gas one because it is better!
Hey, that's my neck of the woods! If you come back, I'd love to say 'Hi' and am happy to offer any suggestions.
I'm curious about the potential for automation. Given the greater number of sensors, and easier ability to control electric heat, do you think this will lead to more repeatable, or possibly automatable roasting? I know some of the smaller "desktop"-sized electric roasters have been trying to do such things, but I'm not sure what to expect since the green source is obviously a huge variable.
I have built roasters that were designed to be capable of unattended roasting.
They are not.
There are too many what if issues in a roast to assign control to a plc or ipc.
They have the new version out how about a follow up?
Hi James, is there any further development on this roster? Are you able to give an update on progress or better yet do some tastings?
Still question the horizontal drum approach if bean to bean evenness and heat transfer efficiency are considered. So much is possible with mechanical agitation.
I've always wondered how much gas - burned or unburned enters the roasting chamber and into the product. These gases contain carcinogens and am curious how this aspect also plays into studies that allege "coffee causes cancer" - did California compare hot air roasted coffees with gas roasted coffees? Light roasted versus dark roasted? I suspect not. Let's just label all product.
No gas burner is 100% efficient. I think this is an area that Bellwether would do well to explore. My point is that I question wether studies into alleged 'cancer causing' properties of coffee - such as Acrylamide take into consideration the gas used to roast the coffee and / or the roasting level. Just as with any food, the extent to which it is cooked affects the level of of these compounds which are detected.
@@jameshoffmann How many roaster mechanics utilize a professional combustion analyzer?
Using one of the devices allows the mechanic to dial in the quality of the air/gas mixture.
Once this is properly set, you still will have byproducts of natural/propane gas combustion, that you CAN taste on the beans.
Almost no one compares air roasted coffee to drum roasted coffee.
The cardinal sin of not following the scaa formula is more rebellious than artisan roasters are willing to commit to.
Almost all air roasting experience has been limited to the poorly made, STUPID (no controls) Sivetz (random spouting bed, not fluid bed), so who can blame them.
Does James have any videos on roasting at home? Can’t seem to find his opinion on whether it’s a good idea or not! Thanks
He doesn't go there, nor is likely to as he owns a roasting operation, which is quite understandable.
Hey! I'm in Berkeley!
If you want to roast locally, what about a Bonaverde "Berlin"? The first generation works well but still has a lot of minor (mostly software) details that should be improved.
Certainly not as sophisticated ad the Bellwether but it's inside a home coffee machine. Not fridge-sized.
Nice! Thank you for share this with us.
So what is the opinion 5y later!?
I’d love your thoughts on home roasting and the ikawa home roaster.
All of our electricity is still made by burning fossil fuels, so it will be a long time until small batch electric becomes an environmentally conscious thing to do.
@Nolan Takle lol, You're kidding yourself. 98% of global energy is made from non-renewables and it takes almost as much fossil fuel energy to build a solar panel or wind turbine as they produce. Even if you produce 99% of your energy from renewables in your little corner of the world it makes no difference to anything and can't be imitated by everyone else.
I wish this thing was more affordable
Fun fact: you can roast coffee in a air popper for popcorn
Will this make coffee roasting cheaper ? I resent the price I’m paying for freshly roasted beans in Singapore.
Kai Hendry Where do you get your beans? Papa Palheta?
@@jameshoffmann they claim a Large $$ savings on their website about roasting, says their cost per pound is $1.67
Kai Hendry cost of roasted coffee and a huge appetite for it is ultimately what drove me to roast my own coffee on the stove in Japan. Perhaps you should consider the same, but you have all those wonderful kopitiam in Singapore.
Kai check out Nylon coffee if you haven't already, I always drop by their roastery whenever in Singapore. Love your AWS videos by the way!!!
@@sugameltpastriescoffee7186 I'm familiar with Nylon, but their online stuff like Pappahleta is abysmal. I'm based in the East, so it's too painful to go out there. Also I think they sell their stuff for 20SGD for 250g like everyone else.
But if a number of shops all use these, is that more environmentally better than one location using their roasters at full capacity. Seems to me this isn’t nearly as efficient as it First looks.
Watching this in 2020 the sight of a plane and the thought of travelling is making me very sad.
eyemall ears that world is forever gone, unfortunately
@@elck3 "forever gone"? weird take, vaccines seem to be close to distribution-ready so things might be back to normal within a year
What is the song featured?
And..........where does the electricity come from to power the Bellwether machine? As noted below (or above): From Burning Gas! Jeez, you probably all drive electric cars too.
Yes, but you have to understand that electricity from the grid and electricity from smaller machines or cars are extremely different. Power plants are made to produce power and make money, but that comes with harsh regulations and high end technology to greatly reduce their carbon footprint. even though the amount of CO2 produced from that power plant to roast coffee or charge an electric car is still significant, it is greatly less than the footprint what thousands of cars or thousands of roasters would make. Nothing is an absolute win, but we can advance in marginal growth and it’s closing minded mindsets like yours that is prolonging our advancement.
Love the channel. Hate the hype machine.
What is your opinion on the Aillio Roaster?
Were you able to explore Berkeley at all? I just graduated from UC Berkeley recently and Algorithm Coffee Co. on University was always worth the 20 minute bus ride from my apartment. Very interesting look into what Bellwether's doing! I had no idea they existed.
I really cant see how this machine will make roasting scene more eco-friendly. I dont think 80 x 3kg roaster would have less carbon footprint than a single 240kg gas-running classic roaster until a time where people produce %80 of electricity from renewable sources(which wont happen probably for another 30-40 years). preheating times alone will kill any argument about them being "eco-friendly". Lets assume a somewhat short preheating time of 15 min for this machine. It would make a total of 20 hours of empty running of these machines to match the capacity of a 240kg roaster. In a 240kg roaster, you could roast almost 8 tonnes of coffee before those machines even start roasting a single bean.
atugruls this is intended to roast small batches for cafes, not to match the capacity of large industrial roasters
If you're interested in gas free roasters you should check out Coffee Crafters Artisan fluid bed roasters.
In general, most electricity is won by burning coal or using nuclear power plants, so it isn't environmentaly friendly either. Only way is to just source "green" electricity. In most parts of the world perhaps impossible.
The UK grid has had weeks at a time without coal. Your point regarding nuclear needs explaining. Most parts of the world have sunshine and/or winds, maybe use less electricity on windless cloudy days?
I’m not sure about your comments on the comparative environmental friendliness of this roaster. As most of the electricity on the grid comes from coal burning power plants, the higher electricity usage of this machine would actually be worse for the environmental than a similar size propane or NG roaster.
I think the idea is more future-oriented, or at least that's the ethos. He did allude to the future of roasting, after all. Provided that energy production is less fossil-oriented-- let's be clear: it'll need to be based around the resurgence of nuclear development at least for the foreseeable future-- then it holds that there is veracity in there having been foresight with a design _like_ the one depicted
can you revisit?
Check out Milkbomb Ice Cream next time you’re in Berkeley
Is there an update video?
Omg there’s one of those at the cafe down the street from my house lol
have you ever had wood fire roasted coffee?
You should try the Roest roaster..
What's the response time with how it reacts to changes in temperature? I don't know anything about roasting so this might not make sense. I know that with gas you can go from high to low super quickly but with electricity you kind of have to do more guessing with knowing when to shut it off. Does this question apply? lol
I have never experienced a time lag using electrical resistance heating.
They also are easily controlable.
They also have no toxic emissions.
They don't last, they are unreliable.
They have real limitations, you can't do large scale roasting, 5 - 6 lbs max for reasonable roast times.
I have always appreciated your avoidance of political issues...I find this video to be a departure of your normal presentations. My background is molecular biology and ecology. Apparently you don't clearly understand fossil fuels and sustainability.
where does electricity come from?????? (hint, not Solar cells). Take five steps back, and re-evaluate. How many child labor deaths are worth the cobalt that it took to make the batteries for a single industrial use solar unit?
I can't fault fair trade coffee, but let's talk about fair trade minerals, If you wanna be honest.
I like alternatives to "fossil fuels" if they do not cause more harm than good, (take look at nickle mining).
I like you, Jim, you have an independent brain, you are actually one of the last of your kind.
I think this is a gimmick. The price of that thing must be astronomical. Think of the heat generated... None of it is vented outside. You're gonna need another AC unit just to keep up with it!
Regarding the heat, I think it's somewhat hinted at that it's much of it is not being vented from the unit during roasting. A quick Google search confirms the hot air is recirculated in the unit during roasting.
@@natfailsyoutube8163 what happens to the heat energy when the roast is done?
@@theungoliant9410 I presume it is let out into the room, however, I don't think that is what you were refering to before - you aren't going to need a 2nd AC to deal with a few litres of hot air, it's probably comparable to openning a preheated oven at home.
@@natfailsyoutube8163 lol maybe it's more than a few liters of hot air.. maybe the whole machine is a heat sink and will slowly radiate out all the heat stored. Maybe energy can neither be created nor destroyed. But whateves, I guess you schooled me..
@@theungoliant9410 I'm not trying to troll you, It seemed to me that you were comparing it to a roaster where air is heated, heats the beans and then is exhausted. Like trying to heat your home with all your windows open... anyway I don't much care about this device so yeah whatevs
The white blurred background that was very bright, and the redness on the skin. This made me feel very uncomfortable. Just saying. Love your videos by the way.
i sell chimneys and i not approve... 🤔
Electricity ??? I am afraid that is not a green alternative ,, 27% of world carbon footprint comes from electricity production & Wind and Solar are extremely expensive . If Bellweather is counting on the electrical angle it will sadly end up dissapointed.
true, BUT...
if we switch to electric now, we can focus on efficient operation and other features we will need for the future. because energy will come from SOLAR power in the future and then it will be eco friendly and with way less carbon footprint.
Solar has noproven itself to be reliable , nor feasible and cost effective ,( just ask Germany ) not to mention the impact on the environment from solar use - Same goes for wind power ( Germany tied taht as well) . The world and our standard of living requires cheap energy not energy at any price . To switch over to electricity a ramping up of electrical producing plants will be required ,,which will mean more fossil fuels being burnt thus making the switch to electrical futile . There has been a Australian study on a possible mass switch to electric cars . The study concluded that after a 3 trillion dollars worth of investement an unimaginable nightmare of garbage waste , ( the discarded old cars ) the net gain in carbon footprint would be 3%. Not even close to what is needed. @@jpjay1584
@@gioiosa54 sorry, but not true
well then the EPA is lying or you are deluded ,, see www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions@@jpjay1584
then eitehr the EPA is lying or you might not be in the know see ,, www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions@@jpjay1584
Look forward to the day when solar-powered roasting machines arrive.
Batteries need to be far more cost-efficient than they are at the moment for this tech to really take off. They would also need to operate more reliably. Panels need to get really good at harvesting energy even when it’s not sunny out.
Not long now... I hope.
but as far as solar and green goes it depends on batteries which, from my understanding, the production of is extremely bad for the environment
hopefully they get their power from renewables or it might be a wash for environmental impact
Extremely expensive machine.
Until engineers is able to invent a flux capacitor I’m sticking with natural gas and propane.