I thought it would be a good idea to end the year with the story of my Gibson ES175. Here's the video on my cheap Jazz guitar: ruclips.net/video/bIQiWfeWLA4/видео.html
I love ❤❤❤❤ that guitar. Probably because of my association with other players who have used it. For me, it’s the guitar of choice for 1950’s jump blues!
I should not like to play a stolen instrument . That's the only problem with your ES 175 . I do like P90 on my ES 150 and humbuckers on my 69 Byrdland . Each one has his voice and I feel they are complementary , adding different and various and subtle nuances . About stolen instrument my only bad experience is about the wandre doris I lended long time ago to a french/ german fellow ( HARALD GLASS ).....before he disapeared with the guitar . They call it FRENCH / GERMAN friendship !!!!!!
@@jean-lucbersou758 Any instrument that is more than 50 years old has a very high chance of having been stolen at some point. You can't know unless you speak to the original buyer, and that is not very likely.
@@JensLarsen Curious answer .....and I don't understand the " is not very likely " . You may have a bill and garantee papers , the foam number and know the origine of the instrument . The french law consider that if you buy a stolen thing you make harbour or conceal ( generally thing that seems low prices good affairs ) . Another main thing is to contract insurance .policy while being vigilant .
@@jean-lucbersou758 How much experience do you have with buying vintage guitars? Old guitars have often had a few owners, so you are unlikely to be talking to whoever bought it new. If you buy a guitar from the 50s or 60s then you can't expect to get receipts and guarantee papers. That is almost never the case, and you can check serial numbers if it has been listed as stolen but that doesn't go back to the 80s which leaves a 30 to 40 year gap of unknown. It's not like ordering from Thomann or Andertons 🙂
A very long time ago, a very wise guitarist pulled my wife to the side and advised her to never allow me to part with my ‘67 S400 CES. It has lived with me since '69. The wife has been with me since '76. I am going to keep them both.
@S. E. Schule Hey friendo, just a heads up but that comment that starts with telegram me is a scam bot. It has nothing to do with this channel, you see em on lots of videos all pretending to be from the host. Best to just ignore or report them. Don’t hand over any money. Not sure if you know this or not but be safe and have a good rest of the year. Peace!
I've had a similar experience. To my ear, semi-hollow bodies and even some solid guitars (specifically the Parker Fly) are FAR LESS trouble in bands where some charts are swing, others bossa, or funk, and especially rock. The hollow bodies just don't have enough flexibility to handle those styles. Thanks for the video. It was very affirming for me.
I did the opposite: when I was working as a musician for pop artists I used an archtop because I thought i looked badass. It was kind of trendy at the time. Yes the sound engineers did not appreciate that then I started to play Jazz and then I got a nylon string Godin
You never fail to address very interesting topics in a refreshing way. I never thought about using a semi-hollow for jazz until I purchased a D'Angelico Kurt Rosenwinkel. I didn't know who he was, but also never saw a semi-hollow with a spruce top for a lefty like myself. The sustain is addictive and useful even for copying legato saxophone lines. Thanks Jens for sharing your perspective, I'll be keeping this semi too!
Keep the 175 forever, you'll be glad you did. I think it sounds beautiful. Sometimes you just need more than one guitar. SO play the Ibanez or 335. I have many guitars and really enjoy picking up one I haven't played for a while and enjoying the difference. Different guitars make you play different things in a different way. That's a good thing!
@@JensLarsen Jens, I seem to recall Grant Green sounding awesome with single coil 😉.. anyway, there are various instruments and setups that are suitable for Jazz, but IME a Strat is not one of them! 😂 Luckily they said you’re in…🥳 You must’ve played your bum off. 👏 Happy Holidays!❄️⛄️
In the late 1980s I auditioned for a jazz / studio music program with a *Squire* Stratocaster. Every other kid in the waiting room had a jazz box. I was accepted but chose to attend engineering school instead. I never stopped playing but I often wonder how my life might have unfolded had I taken that other path. At the time my friends were rockers and several of them make a good living today as musicians. I had read an article in Guitar Player about Will Lee being a sessions player in New York and thought that sounded cool. I'm happy you went down the other road Jens!
I will never be able to play like Jens, but I can enjoy his stories, watch these cool videos and wait for more old band footage/concerts!! I need to drink beer with Jens! You are FAMOUS in Cincinnati!
I have a good Strat and ES 335 but I've often wondered what it would be like to have an ES 175. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experiences re this Jens. 😃
The 175 was the first jazz guitar I initially wanted, but settled for an Epiphone 335 which served me well. I now play an Ibanez artcore expressionist af95 which I'm happy with. Just a little wider body than a 335 and no feedback issues.
I was surprised about your feelings regarding your ES-175, but after you explained your reasoning, it made perfect sense to me. When I was playing in the 70s and 80s, I would have considered an ES-175 as useless due to feedback and lack of sustain. Now I have a 2016 175 that is a jazz player’s dream. That guitar inspires me.
These story of your guitars videos are great, I remember the Epiphone one. I always laugh at the whole "what is a jazz guitar" thing. I would say the answer is whatever you play jazz on. For me that is a jazzmaster à lot of the time these days
@@bassyey it's true. Never really caught on for jazz as we know, although there are photos of Joe Pass with one. For me you can get great tones, particularly on the rhythm circuit or the neck pick-up
@@frankvaleron I agree! Too bad the only expensive models come with that circuit. I'm saving for one. Fender shouldn't really name a guitar "Jazzmaster" without that circuit! I always see those models with just HH and they call them Jazzmaster. To me it's a package of the shape and the proper circuit.
@@bassyey Mine is a limited edition Squier classic vibe of the first jazzmaster, the 1958. It was very reasonably priced and is a pretty authentic recreation from the research I did. And it has the circuit and the proper fender jm pickups. So don't rule out the classic vibe stuff
My audition was with a 1972 Gibson SG. Later I did get a 335 (1980 model) and loved playing it but always wanted to get a 175, which later I could finally afford. However I felt the same thing, that I could not get a modern singing tone out of the 175, though it was a 1970 double hum bucker and played beautifully, and after I put flatwound strings on it, it was even more dead. So I use the 335 the most for my jazz playing, but do get out the 175 now and then. I typically use 11s, using the neck pickup with anywhere from 1 to 4 on the tone pot. Add to that a bit of reverb and delay and it is a very nice experience for my ears. I use a 60 watt Fender Supersonic tube amp, which is typically way more power than I need for jazz gigs, but gives me the overhead I need for the clean articulate sound I want. I used to have a Twin, but that amp is for a younger, stronger man, so eventually I had to sell it.
I bought and played an 1958 ES175 in the late 80's for my studies in music. From what I remember it sounded and played great but it has been too long now to know if that was really the case, after spending the following 30 years of playing on dozens of other guitars and progressing as a guitarist. In 2012 I bought a brand new ES175 and I totally struggled with it. No sustain and that dead feeling (or thunk) when I played it. Sold it with frustrated disapointment. In 2013 I bought a brand new Ibanez PM200 and was blown away the second I played it. Easy action, great sustain and the pick-up (designed by PM and the Ibanez team) sounds like a dream, with no feedback live. The workmanship on this guitar is flawless. Top quality...and I am still loving it to this day.
About pick attack: After years of upgrading guitars by swapping pickups, I bought a PRS SE Custom 22 (solidbody, maple neck) right after that model got discontinued. The stock neck pickup was everything I thought I didn't want: It wasn't "articulate," it was pillowy and diffuse. Then I took it to a jazz rehearsal, and - wow! Its soft attack blends beautifully with other instruments. This has changed my whole ear. Guitar has always been an outlier in jazz, as a pizzicato party-crasher in a genre defined by legato wind instruments. The more we can soften our attack, the more welcome we sound. This is why jazz guitar's '70s fusion generation jumped on chorus FX and choruslike dual delays - they soften attack. Someone once wrote that a 175 has been "the sound of recorded jazz guitar for decades." I think of its "thunk" as "bark," plus some chirp from all the maple. It's a beautiful sound in its own right. But as someone who grew up with rock music and solidbodies, I'm with Jens: I want more sustain.
I always say that a P90'd hollowbodied guitar is more like a marimba or xylophone, whereas a humbuckered one is more like a glockenspiel or vibes. Different strengths for different things.
@@JensLarsen Yes, if any of your folks have destroyed their rotator cuffs, know that there is hope -- knives, saws, ingenious inventions, and hope. But be prepared for your Deltoid muscle to have to learn everything you knew, almost from scratch.
For what it's worth, I think the ES-175 sounds beautiful especially on your chord melody passage of Wine and Roses at 5:20. So deliciously old school, so clear but sweet… I think you're right to keep it in the stable for when you have to play a little bit more old school than is usual for you ;D
Hi Jens lack of sustain is caused by lack of gain from P90 pickups. Simply add a boss G7 Graphic pedal and you will fix all problems. Also stand closer to your amp to get the guitar to inter react with your amp.
I have a 1947 Gibson ES150, all original, and she often asks me why I don't play her more often these days (I can hear her from inside her case). The explanation I give is that i've been temporarily kidnapped by my ukulele but it doesn't carry much weight and she has a way of making me feel very guilty. She is after all beautiful in every sense of the word, a joy to play, and if I ever contemplated selling her, I know she would skin me alive!
A suggestion for the students out there: since guitars are so freaking expensive nowadays, a good compressor pedal evens out attack and bumps up sustain, and in general just makes guitars sound "better," clean or dirty, chords or notes. For my money, the best budget clean tone hack is a compressor, get you one and sound 12.45% more pro instantly ;). I can highly recommend the Keeley Compressor plus pedal and FMR RNC (it's a studio unit, but small enough to gig with). Both are available under $200, the Keeley can be found for ~$100 used all day, and it can take batteries. Both are very transparent, yet the dynamic shaping is powerful. I personally sold my much more valuable EH Blackfinger, gig with the Keeley, and just leave it on all the time. I don't know how prevalent outboard compressors are amongst jazzers, but it's an incredibly important effect that isn't all that widely understood by non-sound-guy types. Obviously if you can get the perfect guitar for your taste, that's the way to go, but even still, that guitar will be compressed at some point in any commercial recording. It behooves any musician to learn what compression does and how to use it, barring that, there's also the method of twiddling the knobs until it sounds good.
I ONLY play my vintage Gibson. Thanks for this video (and all the ones I get thanks to my Patreon subscription.) After owning a Strat I inherited a 1969 ES-330TD with the P-90's. A teacher I had many years ago told me to get a Polytone Minibrute amp for it and that combination creates what I think is the definitive "jazz guitar sound." Due to a physical limitation (several broken arms doing dumb kid stuff when I was younger) I have some limited motion in my fretting hand/arm and anything thicker than a thinline causes discomfort for extended playing. I guess I am fortunate that the sound I get is the one I like because I'm out of luck if I want to sound different.
I turn the tone down to 1. Plus, I always used combination nails and flesh or one or the other for different tones. Recently I cut the nails and I'm a flesh only guy now. I can still get attack by picking closer to the bridge. Good to hear you like semi-hollow-body. I was thinking it would be great to play a hollow-body. Your opinion helps me think in terms of that maybe not being important. BTW, I've gone through all these things you've mentioned. It seems it's probably universal for certain types of players to eventually run into these things. Great video!
Hi Jens. I frequently modify my guitars and I think non-destructive modifications like a pickup change and/or an arch top bridge which features a modern steel tuneomatic would definitely add a more modern flavour.
Timely video as i just bought an epiphone casino for $500 with P90s. The 335 version with humbuckers- have to turn down the treble to get the tone and then it sounds muddy! The P90s sounded better balanced. But now I'll have to relisten. I had an ES 175 as my first guitar for 30 years. Had the same issues you talk about and always had feedback. I have a Yamaha silent guitar fitted with a Kent Armstrong jazz pickup that actually sounds amazing. This guitar is essentially a stick! So a lot is in the pick up. BUT the guitar i am truly searching for is the one that makes me play better !!! Maybe for xmas???? Thanks for all your vids. I'm not the same player i was much due to your lessons.
Absolutely agree: most recorded jazz guitar tones (of good players at least) have quite a bit of treble, so just dialing back "tone" or treble on the amp won't give anyone a usable jazz guitar sound.
After years of also playing a strat with flats when I finally got an es175 with humbuckers, a whole new world of sustain opened up to me. I also love how it plays so I'm thinking that your suspicions about the p90s might be correct. I personally do roll the tone down because I like that warm more muffled sound. I still think the articulation sounds pretty strong.
It’s a sweet thunky swing machine for sure. And given its origin story, gives new meaning to “hot” jazz. Thanks for sharing, and nice that the original owner didn’t want it back. Very cool. 🚨🚔
My dream jazz guitar sound is the old Jim Hall’s smoky p90 sound. The tone of making me feel like being in a purgatory between “coming out” or “not quite coming out” is just right for smoky jazz tone, but if someone playing smoking jazz runs, the purgatory feels very frustrating😊
My ES 175 has humbuckers and I must say it took me 10 years to set the distance from strings to get the sweet tone. My tone is always on 10. Volume max 6 Played in Deluxe Reverb. Killer jazz tone, and I like it percussive but it has sustain too.
Very recognisable. I keep going back and forth between a hollow body with flat wounds, a semi-hollow with round wounds and a strat with round wounds. You could make them sounds more similar (round wounds or half rounds on the hollow, flats on the semi). But i guess it makes more sense to have every guitar do its own thing. If I could only have one (and that would make live easier and make you focus just on the music) I might be looking more for a compromise. I guess I would then still stick with the round wound 11's on the semi and play around with the tone. That in itself covers a lot of ground. Or a good strat.
I also own an ES175 1959 reissue and I agree with your comments, especially about sustain. While I do enjoy playing it, you are correct about its limitations. What are your opinions about the more expensive Gibson solid-tops like the L5 etc. which Wes Montgomery played? There's a big difference in the sound, but also in the price which is why a lot of people own the ES175. Gibson no longer makes them and they're now extremely expensive collector's items. I later discovered Ed Bickert, who proved you can play fantastic jazz on a Fender Telecaster, which I also own.
I have a 1964 ES-175D, the one with dual humbuckers. I lucked into owning it, my parents bought it for me used as a deal when I was a kid. I no longer play jazz; I decided I’m more into rock and blues, and play mainly a Strat. But I can’t get rid of the Gibson, and recently used it recording some retro rockabilly and R&B sounds. I still love the guitar.
I am playing my two Hofners and one with a Dearmond Rythmn Chief 1000 and 012. Flats. It's my bread and butter guitar for Indie Rock(Folk). I play it with a good amount of treble and a bit reverb and it fits for that
The story about your Sheraton helped me get a nice used one from a pawn shop a while back. The Sheraton I got ended up being an 80’s model. I didn’t do the pick up swap and I’m glad because very recently our family home burned and I lost all of my gear. Fortunately, some of my friends and family come together and got me playing again on a Chinese made fake strat (actually sounds good) and an off brand acoustic.
Changing out the bridge top piece to a Tuneomatic improves sustain and smoothens out thunk. This should drop right on. P-90`s translate the acoustic properties of these guitar designs better than buckers. Happy New Year.
Ha, thunk. I didn't know there was a name for that percussive pick attack. For a while I was trying desperately to get thunk out of my Parker Fly. To me it's the quintessential element of jazz guitar sound. But I can also see it becoming old if you hear it all the time .
Hey I think your es’s sustain “problem” is the wooden bridge, I suspect you could find a tom style or brass abm bridge that would fit, it would be also completely reversible. Sometimes a wooden bridge can make that “thunk” sound, but not always.
Agreed sir, I have a '56 ES225T,with the stock steel trapeze bridge/tailpiece,and the sustain is amazing. I also have my mother's '52 L50,with a steel tailpiece, but what appears to be the same wooden bridge,as Mr.JL's ES175. The 175,suddenly appears to be a hybrid of the L50/ES225...? My 2c. Cheers
My 175 also has a history of being stolen (while in the possession of a previous owner). It was taken from Canada across the border to the USA and pawned. Thankfully it was recovered, however, unfortunately the thieves damaged the label to render the serial number unreadable.
I think the pickup is very important but there’s no way you want to ruin a vintage Gibson by replacing the P90. I have a couple of Ibanez hollow body boxes and they both have Super 58 hum buckers in them which sound really good in a smooth way when picking. I never roll off the tone either, that sounds too old fashioned to me
Jim Hall's ES-175 was originally owned by Howard Roberts and many of Howard's early recordings were made with that guitar. I really like Howard's tone on those recordings as it has a certain acoustic quality that appeals to me.
I currently use a Carvin telecaster strung up with flatwounds-I was recently told by one of my professors at music school that I should swap to a semi-hollow or hollow body guitar when playing for the big band or combos. Feels a bit sad to me but I guess I could give it a shot
Technically the craftsman ship and the electronics have certainly improved. But i did love the sound from the ES175 (i guess its the player not the guitar :-) ) .. also the latest L5-CeS is simply stupendous. Two Humbuckers as u know. Nice vide Jens.
This, to me, is the biggest problem with not just jazz guitar, but jazz as a whole. And that is, there are lingering traditions in the genre that players are often expected to adhere to to be considered a "legit" jazz musician. This is the case with the whole "Hollow-body guitar with heavy guage flatwounds and tone rolled down" thing. I had a jazz guitar teacher in college who told me I had to use that setup to get a real jazz guitar tone. I told him I prefer 9 guage strings but he said I had to use heavy guage flats. After many years of forcing myself to play jazz with heavy guage flats I finally decided to switch to La Bella 9 guage flats on my hollow-body. The tone is just fine and they're much more comfortable so I play better and therefore sound better! I've also been playing around a lot with my strat for jazz. A tone I really like is the strat with 9 guage roundwound strings, neck pickup, tone down to about 3, into a tube screamer with the level all the way up and gain all the way down (the way SRV used it), into my Fenders Hot Rod Deluxe set to the "magic 6" settings. Not a traditional jazz guitar setup at all, but it actually sounds really nice for even traditional, straight ahead jazz. Point is, don't think you have to adhere to certain traditions just because someone else said you should. It's art. Experiment and try different things.
Excellent video! Sidenote: Do people also know that there are jazz players that play a Spanish Flamenco guitar with nylon strings? My point? Jazz is not made by the guitar but by the player🙂
These big jazz boxes were designed for chording to support a big band and not for soloing. Replace the bridge with a metal or bone saddle and you'll get more sustain.
Hey Jens, I'm curious if you ever tried using a compressor on that instrument to address the sustain and pick noise problems you were having. is that something you would recommend another guitarist try if they are having the same issue?
I play an old 65 es 335 because that's the one that the stars aligned for as far as purchasing wise. I really like the big broad sound of a 175 with the humbucker though especially with some nice reverb a la Kreisburg. I loved Jim Halls sound with the P90 the performance of God Bless The Child with Sonny Rollins is sublime. The sound is like pure water droplets. I guess it's in the fingers as well.
A good way to get more sustain out of the 175 would be less about the pickups in my opinion, and more about the bridge. You might add a nice tone pros tune-o-matic bridge to replace the original wood bridge, this would also allow for roundwound strings too, which would also add sustain, but you might like flats only. Either way the bridge would definitely make a difference you could notice immediately. I have an old ES-330 which is a thinline hollow body from 1962, with 2 P90's and a tune-o-matic bridge, and it sustains really well. You should definitely give it a try.
That P-90 ES-175 sounds really great. I've found that irritating pick-attack sound mainly comes from the actual pick. Different pick styles and materials have a big effect on the sound.
Sadly, not every Gibson ES-175 will play or respond the same way and there can be differences between them. I have run into a few from the 1970’s and 1990’s that were incredible and actually had longer sustain (and far better harmonics) than others. Sadly, I’ve run into a few from the early 2000’s that just had very little sustain to them and a significant number of wolf notes. Some slightly smaller-body hollow bodies that might be a kinder choice are a Schecter Jazz Elite (discontinued), Ibanez AKJVD90 (discontinued), Ibanez LGB30 or LGB300. If you don’t mind a little more work and a slightly heavier, larger body, the IYV IJZ-500 is worth picking up. Typical modifications I would recommend is replacing the tuning machines with locking tuning machines, and the strap buttons with strap locks. In the case of the IYV, replacing the bridge would also be a recommendation. Hope this helps.
🎵Steve Howe from Yes has played a 175 for years! In contrast Herb Ellis, surely one of the archetypal jazz guitarists also played one. Two different players, two different styles same guitar. I guess the sound truly is with the player and in the fingers! 🎵
Why don't you use a Compressor that guitar? It should be able to fix the sustain and pick attack issues, and that may also address the thunk, and possibly the mids. I have an old ES-175 with a single humbucker in the neck position. I flipped it around so the pole positions are towards the bridge. This is a common "mod" to help get a little brighter/clearer tone. The guitar sounds great, not thunky, and no harsh pick attack.
Compressors feel very strange to play with since they ruin the dynamic response of the instrument, maybe it is because I started on classical guitar that I don't like that, but I have yet to play with a compressor and not have it feel like an dynamics-cage. I also very much suspect that it will give a lot of feedback issues since that is already difficult with that guitar.
I had the same reflex. A compressor is what i use to add sustain but I agree with jens that you’re playing in a dynamics-cage. Perfect way to describe it.
@@JensLarsen I also started on Classical guitar, and it is by far the main guitar I play. I usually hate Compressors, as they destroy all the dynamic articulation I've spent years developing, and is a main component of my playing style. I almost never use a Compressor on my electric guitar playing. But, having said all that, a good, light Compressor may be the perfect thing to get that particular guitar to sound like what you want. 🤷
I've noticed the same thing on my hollow-body Inspired By J.L. Casino. No sustain. It has great tones, but if you're waiting for the note or chord to linger as you prepare for the next movement, the note pretty much just dies.
Early jazz guys definitely had some brightness in their sound. Check out Barry Galbraith's "Nina Never Knew" from his album "Guitar and the Wind". Beautiful sound. Seems like some guys turned down the tone but not all. Listening to Jim Hall's Stella By Starlight recording - definitely a thunky sound. Not much sustain there and a lot of attack. It's cool but I seem to like a bit more than that. Mundell Lowe's guitar moods seems to have pretty beautiful sustain. Lots of good sounds in the paradigm and I can't ever decide what I like most!
I noticed you hang all of your guitars. I’ve had luthiers tell me nicer guitars should always be kept in their case when not in use. What do you think?
The Ibanez vintage artists more enjoyable . With the block it gives the sustain and sweetness of a note with pliability of sound . However the pre Gibson Epiphone Zephyr is hollow and ply that does as much but feedback management can be a issue . The P 90 is a prime example that P 90s are not created the same as the zephyr was modded with a clear bobbin 90 that must be very early example and the E Note on G string 10 fret sustains with a sweet spot that will hold for as long as you want it to or until the finger does not coerce with vibrato and body pickup / amp placement and the string no longer vibrates with inadvertent release . Of all other examples of P90 equipped hollow body and semi we have yet to hear any similarity to the one fitted into the Zephyr the 175 is still a classic .A rare P90 exists that will make it a entirely different instrument without doubt . .
It think the base of the bridge can still be the same wooden construction, it's just the material the strings rest on benefits from being harder. It may do nothing, a lot of what you hear about materials altering guitar tone etc. is without basis. But I think there is something to the material the contact points with the strings are made from. Softer materials absorb more string vibration giving a duller tone with less sustain. I have not verified this, I've just heard it many times and it kind of makes sense. It's non destructive too, as you can keep your original bridge.
@@JensLarsen Another factor may be that over time the feet of the bridge, no longer exactly match the contour of the top. On manufacture they are shaped to match the arch top. Over time as the arch moves, the feet of the bridge don't and the acoustic coupling between the strings and the body is less sound.
Great subject matter here, the never ending unsolvable (debate) about which guitar is right for who/what. I have no dog anywhere near this hunt but I'm wondering if anyone advised you with regard to the tonal and sustain changes you can affect with bridge modifications...? BTW, I LOVE DOGEARS, just sayin' 😂😎 Thanks for daring to go there (Here)!
Yep, sustain or not sustain is very, very relative. Relative to what? To the musical style you are playing at the time; to the acoustical characteristics of the place you are playing; to the atmosphere (busy, relaxed, …) you want to get in that particular musical part; to structure and characteristics of the ensemble you are playing with (are there pad keyboards, strings, or horns?). And a lot of more things to consider. I’m an amateur guitarist and a professionally trained luthier, and along the years I could see in color and action some guitars that played extremely well under certain circumstances, but really really bad in others. Specially when acoustics is important, as with flat top and even with semi-hollows. Many people evaluate guitar tone playing alone in a predictable situation, as in their own living room. On those situations, almost everyone prefers guitars with plenty of sustain. It fills the room with splendorous harmonics specially if is a really well built guitar. In stage with a band or even in recording studios, things may be very different. I saw a lot of “shy instruments” pay themselves in such situations.
I have a Godin LG with Seymour Duncan's (I bought when I knew nothing). I recently put flat wounds on it. I never use it but am not 2illing to get rid of it. Any tips for settings to give that a nice warm jazz sound?
Thanks for your point of view. 2 years ago I was wondering to buy a Gibson Es-175 or any Gibson Jazz guitar but my shopmusical seller advise me not to buy that because for its 50s-60s big neck. What do you think about the neck? Do you think is it comfortable? It seems that you prefer your Ibanez instead a vintage Gibson
Great video (how come the prior owner gave up on the guitar)??? But great points; to each their own wrt. guitars. In the 1980s I wanted to be Frank Zappa, so I got me a Gibson SG from 1964. It is one of my life's big failures that I sold it a few years later, but I seriously NEVER got to really like it. Heavily distorted it was ok, but clean it was "meh", and it was uncomfortable to play and impossible to keep in tune. So I bought a Westone Rainbow 1 semi hollow. A fabulous 335 style guitar that just felt right from day one (still does). So this is really so much a matter of individual taste. Have other guitarists tried your 175, and said "wow, fantastic instrument"? Or do others also appear a bit disappointed with it? All that being said, it is actually strange that the Stratocaster is such a rare sighting in jazz. Happy New Year/Godt Nytår!
Hollow bodies and semi-halla bodies and wood bridges is all reduce sustain. Humbuckers don't sustain more than single coils. They are just louder and have different frequency. The more the energy stays in the string the more sustain. So to maximize sustain you want to have the heaviest immovable guitar body, bridge, frets, whatever. And so hollow body guitars and somehow though body guitars tend to vibrate more, And it's easier to lose the energy from the string into the guitar body. The effect is not massive because the string rests on the bridge and the frets and the nut, all of which are very hard. But if those items rest on materials that are easy to vibrate, then you will lose more energy from the string into them.
Cool guitar, I studied jazz in music college with a solid body guitar shaped like an SG with dimarzio neck pickup and it sounds great for jazz as well as blues and funk. Only a few years ago I bought an archtop- epiphone joe pass model that I realy like and I play it much more now than the SG style guitar.It has some sustain cause I put round wound strings and it has humbuckers.Tge only problem that in bass notes it feedbacks (on clean channel).do you get that problem on the ES175?
I'm so glad you kept the p-90 on the vintage 175, because it has a certain sound and does that well, not to mention the fact that this is the original setup from the 50's. (Also, you've got the same guitar there as Bill Frisell's original, which he sold long ago and then recently got back ruclips.net/video/u4HGTWj3DDo/видео.html ). I have a 60's Epiphone Sorrento that I put a vintage-style p-90 in just to get that sort of sound. But I also play ES 335 and am a big fan of Dan Balmer's 80's Ibanez Artist (semi-hollow) sound, the semi-hollow can do that more modern sound so well! (ruclips.net/video/DibJxNuNzcs/видео.html)
I have a 51 ES125, and while it is a beautiful sounding and playing guitar, I have similar frustrations with sustain. One other issue is that my ES125 has no cutaway, so anything beyond the G on the 15th fret means I have to change my thumb positioning, plus the fact that I dont have that high D.
Hey Jens thanks for making a great lessons. Today, I have a question about making jazz lesson videos. I have my own website and I am selling my lesson video to students. If I play some Jazz standards, what do I have to do for copyright? For example, if I play guitar solo over autumn leaves, do I have to pay for copyrights? Is it legal?
That is incredibly complicated, it depends on where you publish and what you use. If you are using the melody you have to be careful, and it will vary from country to country.
Very nice I’ve always wanted a degree in guitar, but now at 51 I’ll just stick to my guitar lessons lol I love jazz I play a Gibson les paul And I really love it. Keep up the great work, I love your videos 👍
I thought it would be a good idea to end the year with the story of my Gibson ES175.
Here's the video on my cheap Jazz guitar: ruclips.net/video/bIQiWfeWLA4/видео.html
I love ❤❤❤❤ that guitar. Probably because of my association with other players who have used it. For me, it’s the guitar of choice for 1950’s jump blues!
I should not like to play a stolen instrument . That's the only problem with your ES 175 . I do like
P90 on my ES 150 and humbuckers on my 69 Byrdland . Each one has his voice and I feel they
are complementary , adding different and various and subtle nuances . About stolen instrument
my only bad experience is about the wandre doris I lended long time ago to a french/ german
fellow ( HARALD GLASS ).....before he disapeared with the guitar . They call it FRENCH / GERMAN friendship !!!!!!
@@jean-lucbersou758 Any instrument that is more than 50 years old has a very high chance of having been stolen at some point. You can't know unless you speak to the original buyer, and that is not very likely.
@@JensLarsen Curious answer .....and I don't understand the " is not very likely " . You
may have a bill and garantee papers , the foam number and know the origine of the instrument . The french law consider that if you buy a stolen thing you make harbour or
conceal ( generally thing that seems low prices good affairs ) . Another main thing is to
contract insurance .policy while being vigilant .
@@jean-lucbersou758 How much experience do you have with buying vintage guitars?
Old guitars have often had a few owners, so you are unlikely to be talking to whoever bought it new.
If you buy a guitar from the 50s or 60s then you can't expect to get receipts and guarantee papers. That is almost never the case, and you can check serial numbers if it has been listed as stolen but that doesn't go back to the 80s which leaves a 30 to 40 year gap of unknown.
It's not like ordering from Thomann or Andertons 🙂
A very long time ago, a very wise guitarist pulled my wife to the side and advised her to never allow me to part with my ‘67 S400 CES. It has lived with me since '69. The wife has been with me since '76. I am going to keep them both.
Yes, I indeed 🙂
I did add a subscription to your link though not sure how it will work
@S. E. Schule
Hey friendo, just a heads up but that comment that starts with telegram me is a scam bot. It has nothing to do with this channel, you see em on lots of videos all pretending to be from the host. Best to just ignore or report them. Don’t hand over any money.
Not sure if you know this or not but be safe and have a good rest of the year. Peace!
@@thomasharris7881 That is very good to know. Thanks for the heads up!
K lmk
As a guitar player who hasnt even started learning Jazz yet,i love dropping by and hearing your stories and teaching Jens
Thank you, Nick! That is really great to hear!
I've had a similar experience. To my ear, semi-hollow bodies and even some solid guitars (specifically the Parker Fly) are FAR LESS trouble in bands where some charts are swing, others bossa, or funk, and especially rock. The hollow bodies just don't have enough flexibility to handle those styles. Thanks for the video. It was very affirming for me.
Glad you like it!
I did the opposite: when I was working as a musician for pop artists I used an archtop because I thought i looked badass. It was kind of trendy at the time. Yes the sound engineers did not appreciate that then I started to play Jazz and then I got a nylon string Godin
We all need to find out own way :) Happy new year Mikko!
You never fail to address very interesting topics in a refreshing way. I never thought about using a semi-hollow for jazz until I purchased a D'Angelico Kurt Rosenwinkel. I didn't know who he was, but also never saw a semi-hollow with a spruce top for a lefty like myself. The sustain is addictive and useful even for copying legato saxophone lines. Thanks Jens for sharing your perspective, I'll be keeping this semi too!
Keep the 175 forever, you'll be glad you did. I think it sounds beautiful. Sometimes you just need more than one guitar. SO play the Ibanez or 335. I have many guitars and really enjoy picking up one I haven't played for a while and enjoying the difference. Different guitars make you play different things in a different way. That's a good thing!
As I said in the video, it is not for sale, and it has it's place in what I do for a living, it just is not my own music 🙂
@@JensLarsen Jens, I seem to recall Grant Green sounding awesome with single coil 😉.. anyway, there
are various instruments and setups that are suitable for Jazz, but IME a Strat is not one of them! 😂 Luckily they said you’re in…🥳
You must’ve played your bum off. 👏
Happy Holidays!❄️⛄️
I have a 1952 ES-175 that I just bought this month. I love it so much!
Great! Congrats 👍
In the late 1980s I auditioned for a jazz / studio music program with a *Squire* Stratocaster. Every other kid in the waiting room had a jazz box. I was accepted but chose to attend engineering school instead. I never stopped playing but I often wonder how my life might have unfolded had I taken that other path. At the time my friends were rockers and several of them make a good living today as musicians. I had read an article in Guitar Player about Will Lee being a sessions player in New York and thought that sounded cool. I'm happy you went down the other road Jens!
80s Squiers made in Japan are great and even better than some Fenders.
Great story Jens. Can't wait to see and hear what you come up with in 2023.
The ES175 does sound beautiful! Perfect explanation of the sustain and attack "issue" though. Still, not a bad problem to have 🙂
Thanks! Yes, it sounds great! :)
I will never be able to play like Jens, but I can enjoy his stories, watch these cool videos and wait for more old band footage/concerts!! I need to drink beer with Jens! You are FAMOUS in Cincinnati!
I have a good Strat and ES 335 but I've often wondered what it would be like to have an ES 175. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experiences re this Jens. 😃
Always great to see you at the premiere Kevin :) Thank you!
@@JensLarsen Thanks Jens. It's fun to be here and say 'Woooo !!'
The 175 was the first jazz guitar I initially wanted, but settled for an Epiphone 335 which served me well. I now play an Ibanez artcore expressionist af95 which I'm happy with. Just a little wider body than a 335 and no feedback issues.
This was awesome, really cool to see your personal relationship with each guitar!
Glad you enjoyed it, Ross!
I was surprised about your feelings regarding your ES-175, but after you explained your reasoning, it made perfect sense to me. When I was playing in the 70s and 80s, I would have considered an ES-175 as useless due to feedback and lack of sustain. Now I have a 2016 175 that is a jazz player’s dream. That guitar inspires me.
These story of your guitars videos are great, I remember the Epiphone one. I always laugh at the whole "what is a jazz guitar" thing. I would say the answer is whatever you play jazz on. For me that is a jazzmaster à lot of the time these days
Thanks Frank! :)
Jazzmaster was made with jazz in mind. I mean, is the name not enough for people? lol.
@@bassyey it's true. Never really caught on for jazz as we know, although there are photos of Joe Pass with one. For me you can get great tones, particularly on the rhythm circuit or the neck pick-up
@@frankvaleron I agree! Too bad the only expensive models come with that circuit. I'm saving for one. Fender shouldn't really name a guitar "Jazzmaster" without that circuit! I always see those models with just HH and they call them Jazzmaster. To me it's a package of the shape and the proper circuit.
@@bassyey Mine is a limited edition Squier classic vibe of the first jazzmaster, the 1958. It was very reasonably priced and is a pretty authentic recreation from the research I did. And it has the circuit and the proper fender jm pickups. So don't rule out the classic vibe stuff
Plus one for Christian miller videos! Have you considered new design arch top guitars like Ken Parker's? Oh yeah, hope you have a good new year! 👍🏼
My audition was with a 1972 Gibson SG. Later I did get a 335 (1980 model) and loved playing it but always wanted to get a 175, which later I could finally afford. However I felt the same thing, that I could not get a modern singing tone out of the 175, though it was a 1970 double hum bucker and played beautifully, and after I put flatwound strings on it, it was even more dead. So I use the 335 the most for my jazz playing, but do get out the 175 now and then. I typically use 11s, using the neck pickup with anywhere from 1 to 4 on the tone pot. Add to that a bit of reverb and delay and it is a very nice experience for my ears. I use a 60 watt Fender Supersonic tube amp, which is typically way more power than I need for jazz gigs, but gives me the overhead I need for the clean articulate sound I want. I used to have a Twin, but that amp is for a younger, stronger man, so eventually I had to sell it.
I bought and played an 1958 ES175 in the late 80's for my studies in music. From what I remember it sounded and played great but it has been too long now to know if that was really the case, after spending the following 30 years of playing on dozens of other guitars and progressing as a guitarist. In 2012 I bought a brand new ES175 and I totally struggled with it. No sustain and that dead feeling (or thunk) when I played it. Sold it with frustrated disapointment. In 2013 I bought a brand new Ibanez PM200 and was blown away the second I played it. Easy action, great sustain and the pick-up (designed by PM and the Ibanez team) sounds like a dream, with no feedback live. The workmanship on this guitar is flawless. Top quality...and I am still loving it to this day.
About pick attack: After years of upgrading guitars by swapping pickups, I bought a PRS SE Custom 22 (solidbody, maple neck) right after that model got discontinued. The stock neck pickup was everything I thought I didn't want: It wasn't "articulate," it was pillowy and diffuse. Then I took it to a jazz rehearsal, and - wow! Its soft attack blends beautifully with other instruments. This has changed my whole ear. Guitar has always been an outlier in jazz, as a pizzicato party-crasher in a genre defined by legato wind instruments. The more we can soften our attack, the more welcome we sound. This is why jazz guitar's '70s fusion generation jumped on chorus FX and choruslike dual delays - they soften attack.
Someone once wrote that a 175 has been "the sound of recorded jazz guitar for decades." I think of its "thunk" as "bark," plus some chirp from all the maple. It's a beautiful sound in its own right. But as someone who grew up with rock music and solidbodies, I'm with Jens: I want more sustain.
Nice video. It's good that the guitar found you. Adopting guitars is always good. XD
Very true 🙂 Thanks Andres
I always say that a P90'd hollowbodied guitar is more like a marimba or xylophone, whereas a humbuckered one is more like a glockenspiel or vibes. Different strengths for different things.
That was fun. My kid lent me his Sheraton. As my shoulder recovers -- which is coming along great -- I'll give it a go.
Great that you are getting better! 🙂 Have fun with the Sheraton!
@@JensLarsen Yes, if any of your folks have destroyed their rotator cuffs, know that there is hope -- knives, saws, ingenious inventions, and hope. But be prepared for your Deltoid muscle to have to learn everything you knew, almost from scratch.
For what it's worth, I think the ES-175 sounds beautiful especially on your chord melody passage of Wine and Roses at 5:20. So deliciously old school, so clear but sweet… I think you're right to keep it in the stable for when you have to play a little bit more old school than is usual for you ;D
I totally agree!
Hi Jens lack of sustain is caused by lack of gain from P90 pickups. Simply add a boss G7 Graphic pedal and you will fix all problems. Also stand closer to your amp to get the guitar to inter react with your amp.
Lol, I have always wondered why I've never seen you play the 175 in any vids. This is a great video, and your 175 is remarkable.
I have a 1947 Gibson ES150, all original, and she often asks me why I don't play her more often these days (I can hear her from inside her case). The explanation I give is that i've been temporarily kidnapped by my ukulele but it doesn't carry much weight and she has a way of making me feel very guilty. She is after all beautiful in every sense of the word, a joy to play, and if I ever contemplated selling her, I know she would skin me alive!
A suggestion for the students out there: since guitars are so freaking expensive nowadays, a good compressor pedal evens out attack and bumps up sustain, and in general just makes guitars sound "better," clean or dirty, chords or notes. For my money, the best budget clean tone hack is a compressor, get you one and sound 12.45% more pro instantly ;). I can highly recommend the Keeley Compressor plus pedal and FMR RNC (it's a studio unit, but small enough to gig with). Both are available under $200, the Keeley can be found for ~$100 used all day, and it can take batteries. Both are very transparent, yet the dynamic shaping is powerful. I personally sold my much more valuable EH Blackfinger, gig with the Keeley, and just leave it on all the time. I don't know how prevalent outboard compressors are amongst jazzers, but it's an incredibly important effect that isn't all that widely understood by non-sound-guy types. Obviously if you can get the perfect guitar for your taste, that's the way to go, but even still, that guitar will be compressed at some point in any commercial recording. It behooves any musician to learn what compression does and how to use it, barring that, there's also the method of twiddling the knobs until it sounds good.
THANKS, JENS!
I think an enveloper would fix the amp exploding. You could set it up so that you could overdrive the everything but the thunk? Could work.
Thanks! I don't want the thunk, and the problem is not the amp exploding, it is the feedback.
@@JensLarsen ah I see *shrug*
A few years back while on vacations in the netherlands i visited that guitar shop 😁 i recognized that street immediately
Well, actually there were 3 shops in that street next to each other and this one closed in '99 so you may not have been there :)
@@JensLarsen Oh ok, i was there in 2018 - seems i was mistaken 😁
I ONLY play my vintage Gibson. Thanks for this video (and all the ones I get thanks to my Patreon subscription.) After owning a Strat I inherited a 1969 ES-330TD with the P-90's. A teacher I had many years ago told me to get a Polytone Minibrute amp for it and that combination creates what I think is the definitive "jazz guitar sound." Due to a physical limitation (several broken arms doing dumb kid stuff when I was younger) I have some limited motion in my fretting hand/arm and anything thicker than a thinline causes discomfort for extended playing. I guess I am fortunate that the sound I get is the one I like because I'm out of luck if I want to sound different.
I turn the tone down to 1. Plus, I always used combination nails and flesh or one or the other for different tones. Recently I cut the nails and I'm a flesh only guy now. I can still get attack by picking closer to the bridge. Good to hear you like semi-hollow-body. I was thinking it would be great to play a hollow-body. Your opinion helps me think in terms of that maybe not being important. BTW, I've gone through all these things you've mentioned. It seems it's probably universal for certain types of players to eventually run into these things. Great video!
Hi Jens. I frequently modify my guitars and I think non-destructive modifications like a pickup change and/or an arch top bridge which features a modern steel tuneomatic would definitely add a more modern flavour.
@Jens_Larsen. nice. How do I claim?
Timely video as i just bought an epiphone casino for $500 with P90s. The 335 version with humbuckers- have to turn down the treble to get the tone and then it sounds muddy! The P90s sounded better balanced. But now I'll have to relisten. I had an ES 175 as my first guitar for 30 years. Had the same issues you talk about and always had feedback. I have a Yamaha silent guitar fitted with a Kent Armstrong jazz pickup that actually sounds amazing. This guitar is essentially a stick! So a lot is in the pick up. BUT the guitar i am truly searching for is the one that makes me play better !!! Maybe for xmas???? Thanks for all your vids. I'm not the same player i was much due to your lessons.
Absolutely agree: most recorded jazz guitar tones (of good players at least) have quite a bit of treble, so just dialing back "tone" or treble on the amp won't give anyone a usable jazz guitar sound.
After years of also playing a strat with flats when I finally got an es175 with humbuckers, a whole new world of sustain opened up to me. I also love how it plays so I'm thinking that your suspicions about the p90s might be correct. I personally do roll the tone down because I like that warm more muffled sound. I still think the articulation sounds pretty strong.
I know it's not the sound your looking for but that 50s 175 with a P90 sounds heavenly to me.
Which is perfectly fine 🙂
It’s a sweet thunky swing machine for sure. And given its origin story, gives new meaning to “hot” jazz. Thanks for sharing, and nice that the original owner didn’t want it back. Very cool. 🚨🚔
Glad you like it 🙂
Amazing insights. Thank you for sharing! This is a video I've watched many times.
Glad it was helpful!
My dream jazz guitar sound is the old Jim Hall’s smoky p90 sound. The tone of making me feel like being in a purgatory between “coming out” or “not quite coming out” is just right for smoky jazz tone, but if someone playing smoking jazz runs, the purgatory feels very frustrating😊
My ES 175 has humbuckers and I must say it took me 10 years to set the distance from strings to get the sweet tone.
My tone is always on 10.
Volume max 6
Played in Deluxe Reverb.
Killer jazz tone, and I like it percussive but it has sustain too.
Very recognisable. I keep going back and forth between a hollow body with flat wounds, a semi-hollow with round wounds and a strat with round wounds. You could make them sounds more similar (round wounds or half rounds on the hollow, flats on the semi). But i guess it makes more sense to have every guitar do its own thing. If I could only have one (and that would make live easier and make you focus just on the music) I might be looking more for a compromise. I guess I would then still stick with the round wound 11's on the semi and play around with the tone. That in itself covers a lot of ground. Or a good strat.
I also own an ES175 1959 reissue and I agree with your comments, especially about sustain. While I do enjoy playing it, you are correct about its limitations. What are your opinions about the more expensive Gibson solid-tops like the L5 etc. which Wes Montgomery played? There's a big difference in the sound, but also in the price which is why a lot of people own the ES175. Gibson no longer makes them and they're now extremely expensive collector's items. I later discovered Ed Bickert, who proved you can play fantastic jazz on a Fender Telecaster, which I also own.
I have a 1964 ES-175D, the one with dual humbuckers. I lucked into owning it, my parents bought it for me used as a deal when I was a kid. I no longer play jazz; I decided I’m more into rock and blues, and play mainly a Strat. But I can’t get rid of the Gibson, and recently used it recording some retro rockabilly and R&B sounds. I still love the guitar.
Don’t sleep on that bridge pickup! Surprisingly versatile instrument.
I am playing my two Hofners and one with a Dearmond Rythmn Chief 1000 and 012. Flats. It's my bread and butter guitar for Indie Rock(Folk). I play it with a good amount of treble and a bit reverb and it fits for that
I think you should have been playing a Gretsch. the maple body and neck are great. Great sustain and note clarity.
I agree with you completely on turning down the tone knob for jazz. It’s not the way to go in my opinion.
The story about your Sheraton helped me get a nice used one from a pawn shop a while back. The Sheraton I got ended up being an 80’s model. I didn’t do the pick up swap and I’m glad because very recently our family home burned and I lost all of my gear. Fortunately, some of my friends and family come together and got me playing again on a Chinese made fake strat (actually sounds good) and an off brand acoustic.
That is a crazy story! Glad you had your family to save you!
Very informative. I sometimes dream about arctop, but my semihollownis more suited for my playingstyle. And thanks for the explosive amp.
Changing out the bridge top piece to a Tuneomatic improves sustain and smoothens out thunk. This should drop right on. P-90`s translate the acoustic properties of these guitar designs better than buckers. Happy New Year.
Op mijn 1953 es 175 heb ik een dogear humbucker van Seymour Duncan gezet , dus zonder er in te hoeven zagen, en dat klinkt heel goed
Ha, thunk. I didn't know there was a name for that percussive pick attack. For a while I was trying desperately to get thunk out of my Parker Fly. To me it's the quintessential element of jazz guitar sound. But I can also see it becoming old if you hear it all the time .
Hey I think your es’s sustain “problem” is the wooden bridge, I suspect you could find a tom style or brass abm bridge that would fit, it would be also completely reversible. Sometimes a wooden bridge can make that “thunk” sound, but not always.
Agreed sir,
I have a '56 ES225T,with the stock steel trapeze bridge/tailpiece,and the sustain is amazing.
I also have my mother's '52 L50,with a steel tailpiece,
but what appears to be the same wooden bridge,as Mr.JL's ES175.
The 175,suddenly appears to be a hybrid of the L50/ES225...?
My 2c.
Cheers
My 175 also has a history of being stolen (while in the possession of a previous owner). It was taken from Canada across the border to the USA and pawned. Thankfully it was recovered, however, unfortunately the thieves damaged the label to render the serial number unreadable.
this was very helpful. thank you
You're welcome!
I wish you a brave New Year !
I think the pickup is very important but there’s no way you want to ruin a vintage Gibson by replacing the P90. I have a couple of Ibanez hollow body boxes and they both have Super 58 hum buckers in them which sound really good in a smooth way when picking. I never roll off the tone either, that sounds too old fashioned to me
No, I certainly wasn't planning to 🙂
Jim Hall's ES-175 was originally owned by Howard Roberts and many of Howard's early recordings were made with that guitar. I really like Howard's tone on those recordings as it has a certain acoustic quality that appeals to me.
I own a 1980 HR Fusion. HR is God. IMHO
I currently use a Carvin telecaster strung up with flatwounds-I was recently told by one of my professors at music school that I should swap to a semi-hollow or hollow body guitar when playing for the big band or combos. Feels a bit sad to me but I guess I could give it a shot
Technically the craftsman ship and the electronics have certainly improved. But i did love the sound from the ES175 (i guess its the player not the guitar :-) ) .. also the latest L5-CeS is simply stupendous. Two Humbuckers as u know. Nice vide Jens.
This, to me, is the biggest problem with not just jazz guitar, but jazz as a whole. And that is, there are lingering traditions in the genre that players are often expected to adhere to to be considered a "legit" jazz musician. This is the case with the whole "Hollow-body guitar with heavy guage flatwounds and tone rolled down" thing. I had a jazz guitar teacher in college who told me I had to use that setup to get a real jazz guitar tone. I told him I prefer 9 guage strings but he said I had to use heavy guage flats. After many years of forcing myself to play jazz with heavy guage flats I finally decided to switch to La Bella 9 guage flats on my hollow-body. The tone is just fine and they're much more comfortable so I play better and therefore sound better! I've also been playing around a lot with my strat for jazz. A tone I really like is the strat with 9 guage roundwound strings, neck pickup, tone down to about 3, into a tube screamer with the level all the way up and gain all the way down (the way SRV used it), into my Fenders Hot Rod Deluxe set to the "magic 6" settings. Not a traditional jazz guitar setup at all, but it actually sounds really nice for even traditional, straight ahead jazz. Point is, don't think you have to adhere to certain traditions just because someone else said you should. It's art. Experiment and try different things.
Excellent video! Sidenote: Do people also know that there are jazz players that play a Spanish Flamenco guitar with nylon strings? My point? Jazz is not made by the guitar but by the player🙂
These big jazz boxes were designed for chording to support a big band and not for soloing. Replace the bridge with a metal or bone saddle and you'll get more sustain.
Eef Albers' solo during the outro of "Zeg eens Aaa" still gives me goose bumps. Also, Peer Dellen?
No it wasn't Peer Dellen. He was around a lot longer than that shop
Hey Jens, I'm curious if you ever tried using a compressor on that instrument to address the sustain and pick noise problems you were having. is that something you would recommend another guitarist try if they are having the same issue?
I have tried compressors, but that doesn't really work and gives you some other problems with loss of dynamic range and feedback 🙂
I play an old 65 es 335 because that's the one that the stars aligned for as far as purchasing wise. I really like the big broad sound of a 175 with the humbucker though especially with some nice reverb a la Kreisburg. I loved Jim Halls sound with the P90 the performance of God Bless The Child with Sonny Rollins is sublime. The sound is like pure water droplets. I guess it's in the fingers as well.
Your editor is really good.
Thanks! I'll let him know 🙂
A good way to get more sustain out of the 175 would be less about the pickups in my opinion, and more about the bridge. You might add a nice tone pros tune-o-matic bridge to replace the original wood bridge, this would also allow for roundwound strings too, which would also add sustain, but you might like flats only. Either way the bridge would definitely make a difference you could notice immediately. I have an old ES-330 which is a thinline hollow body from 1962, with 2 P90's and a tune-o-matic bridge, and it sustains really well. You should definitely give it a try.
That P-90 ES-175 sounds really great. I've found that irritating pick-attack sound mainly comes from the actual pick. Different pick styles and materials have a big effect on the sound.
Well, my other guitars don't have it so it is certainly not only the pick 😁
Sadly, not every Gibson ES-175 will play or respond the same way and there can be differences between them. I have run into a few from the 1970’s and 1990’s that were incredible and actually had longer sustain (and far better harmonics) than others. Sadly, I’ve run into a few from the early 2000’s that just had very little sustain to them and a significant number of wolf notes.
Some slightly smaller-body hollow bodies that might be a kinder choice are a Schecter Jazz Elite (discontinued), Ibanez AKJVD90 (discontinued), Ibanez LGB30 or LGB300.
If you don’t mind a little more work and a slightly heavier, larger body, the IYV IJZ-500 is worth picking up. Typical modifications I would recommend is replacing the tuning machines with locking tuning machines, and the strap buttons with strap locks. In the case of the IYV, replacing the bridge would also be a recommendation. Hope this helps.
It's astonishing how you can make them sound so similar, apart from attack and sustain! Kudos on the comics 😂
🎵Steve Howe from Yes has played a 175 for years! In contrast Herb Ellis, surely one of the archetypal jazz guitarists also played one. Two different players, two different styles same guitar. I guess the sound truly is with the player and in the fingers! 🎵
Absolutely
Why don't you use a Compressor that guitar? It should be able to fix the sustain and pick attack issues, and that may also address the thunk, and possibly the mids.
I have an old ES-175 with a single humbucker in the neck position. I flipped it around so the pole positions are towards the bridge. This is a common "mod" to help get a little brighter/clearer tone. The guitar sounds great, not thunky, and no harsh pick attack.
Compressors feel very strange to play with since they ruin the dynamic response of the instrument, maybe it is because I started on classical guitar that I don't like that, but I have yet to play with a compressor and not have it feel like an dynamics-cage. I also very much suspect that it will give a lot of feedback issues since that is already difficult with that guitar.
I had the same reflex. A compressor is what i use to add sustain but I agree with jens that you’re playing in a dynamics-cage. Perfect way to describe it.
@@JensLarsen I also started on Classical guitar, and it is by far the main guitar I play. I usually hate Compressors, as they destroy all the dynamic articulation I've spent years developing, and is a main component of my playing style. I almost never use a Compressor on my electric guitar playing. But, having said all that, a good, light Compressor may be the perfect thing to get that particular guitar to sound like what you want. 🤷
I've noticed the same thing on my hollow-body Inspired By J.L. Casino. No sustain. It has great tones, but if you're waiting for the note or chord to linger as you prepare for the next movement, the note pretty much just dies.
Early jazz guys definitely had some brightness in their sound. Check out Barry Galbraith's "Nina Never Knew" from his album "Guitar and the Wind". Beautiful sound. Seems like some guys turned down the tone but not all. Listening to Jim Hall's Stella By Starlight recording - definitely a thunky sound. Not much sustain there and a lot of attack. It's cool but I seem to like a bit more than that. Mundell Lowe's guitar moods seems to have pretty beautiful sustain. Lots of good sounds in the paradigm and I can't ever decide what I like most!
Have you experimented with a compressor pedal for more sustain with the P90?
I have tried compressors, but that doesn't really work and gives you some other problems with loss of dynamic range and feedback 🙂
The Exploding Amp - at last!
Thank you 😁
I noticed you hang all of your guitars. I’ve had luthiers tell me nicer guitars should always be kept in their case when not in use. What do you think?
I asked two and they said the opposite 🙂
@@JensLarsen Cool :) I prefer the access of hanging them too, figured I would ask.
Just wondering if you ever tried an Ibanez Japan archtop and how it behaves compared to the Sco semi. I have one too and it's hard to put down.
I havent, and I also haven't ever played a Scofield model.
@@JensLarsen Yes! I've now noticed it isn't a Scofield model (JSM). Similar sound, same outstanding craftmanship I suppose.
@@Uuur10 well, I don't know 😁 but I am very happy with it.
The Ibanez vintage artists more enjoyable .
With the block it gives the sustain and sweetness of a note with pliability of sound .
However the pre Gibson Epiphone Zephyr is hollow and ply that does as much but feedback management can be a issue .
The P 90 is a prime example that P 90s are not created the same as the zephyr was modded with a clear bobbin 90 that must be very early example and the E Note on G string 10 fret sustains with a sweet spot that will hold for as long as you want it to or until the finger does not coerce with vibrato and body pickup / amp placement and the string no longer vibrates with inadvertent release .
Of all other examples of P90 equipped hollow body and semi we have yet to hear any similarity to the one fitted into the Zephyr the 175 is still a classic .A rare P90 exists that will make it a entirely different instrument without doubt .
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Would changing the bridge to one made with a harder material not increase sustain too?
That could be, I have never heard of that, but changes like that on a fragile old instrument? I am not sure I would risk it.
It think the base of the bridge can still be the same wooden construction, it's just the material the strings rest on benefits from being harder. It may do nothing, a lot of what you hear about materials altering guitar tone etc. is without basis. But I think there is something to the material the contact points with the strings are made from. Softer materials absorb more string vibration giving a duller tone with less sustain. I have not verified this, I've just heard it many times and it kind of makes sense. It's non destructive too, as you can keep your original bridge.
@@JensLarsen Another factor may be that over time the feet of the bridge, no longer exactly match the contour of the top. On manufacture they are shaped to match the arch top. Over time as the arch moves, the feet of the bridge don't and the acoustic coupling between the strings and the body is less sound.
@@nsjohnstonGiven how well the guitar sounds acoustically then I don't think that is really the problem 🙂
The string grooves on a wooden bridge can wear out and become flat. A luthier can file back to original specs.
Great subject matter here, the never ending unsolvable (debate) about which guitar is right for who/what. I have no dog anywhere near this hunt but I'm wondering if anyone advised you with regard to the tonal and sustain changes you can affect with bridge modifications...? BTW, I LOVE DOGEARS, just sayin' 😂😎 Thanks for daring to go there (Here)!
Actually my teacher, Eef, put a metal bridge on his '50s ES125 and it ruined the guitar completely, after he told me that, I never looked into it.
@@JensLarsen LOL, I totally believe that…! 😵💫
I love my Slaman Archtop ... I just love acoustic instruments ...
I don't know, Jens, that ES-175 sounds pretty sweet.
I agree. Not sure what he’s hearing
@@jeffd3573 You can compare for yourself here: ruclips.net/user/shortsrlKu7tGyNLc
Ok, I actually felt that difference was fairly obvious in this video?
Yep, sustain or not sustain is very, very relative. Relative to what? To the musical style you are playing at the time; to the acoustical characteristics of the place you are playing; to the atmosphere (busy, relaxed, …) you want to get in that particular musical part; to structure and characteristics of the ensemble you are playing with (are there pad keyboards, strings, or horns?). And a lot of more things to consider. I’m an amateur guitarist and a professionally trained luthier, and along the years I could see in color and action some guitars that played extremely well under certain circumstances, but really really bad in others. Specially when acoustics is important, as with flat top and even with semi-hollows. Many people evaluate guitar tone playing alone in a predictable situation, as in their own living room. On those situations, almost everyone prefers guitars with plenty of sustain. It fills the room with splendorous harmonics specially if is a really well built guitar. In stage with a band or even in recording studios, things may be very different. I saw a lot of “shy instruments” pay themselves in such situations.
great video, great humour too 10:24 :)
Thank you 🙂
I have a Godin LG with Seymour Duncan's (I bought when I knew nothing). I recently put flat wounds on it. I never use it but am not 2illing to get rid of it. Any tips for settings to give that a nice warm jazz sound?
Thanks for your point of view. 2 years ago I was wondering to buy a Gibson Es-175 or any Gibson Jazz guitar but my shopmusical seller advise me not to buy that because for its 50s-60s big neck. What do you think about the neck? Do you think is it comfortable? It seems that you prefer your Ibanez instead a vintage Gibson
Great video (how come the prior owner gave up on the guitar)??? But great points; to each their own wrt. guitars. In the 1980s I wanted to be Frank Zappa, so I got me a Gibson SG from 1964. It is one of my life's big failures that I sold it a few years later, but I seriously NEVER got to really like it. Heavily distorted it was ok, but clean it was "meh", and it was uncomfortable to play and impossible to keep in tune. So I bought a Westone Rainbow 1 semi hollow. A fabulous 335 style guitar that just felt right from day one (still does). So this is really so much a matter of individual taste. Have other guitarists tried your 175, and said "wow, fantastic instrument"? Or do others also appear a bit disappointed with it? All that being said, it is actually strange that the Stratocaster is such a rare sighting in jazz. Happy New Year/Godt Nytår!
Hollow bodies and semi-halla bodies and wood bridges is all reduce sustain.
Humbuckers don't sustain more than single coils. They are just louder and have different frequency.
The more the energy stays in the string the more sustain. So to maximize sustain you want to have the heaviest immovable guitar body, bridge, frets, whatever.
And so hollow body guitars and somehow though body guitars tend to vibrate more, And it's easier to lose the energy from the string into the guitar body.
The effect is not massive because the string rests on the bridge and the frets and the nut, all of which are very hard. But if those items rest on materials that are easy to vibrate, then you will lose more energy from the string into them.
Cool guitar, I studied jazz in music college with a solid body guitar shaped like an SG with dimarzio neck pickup and it sounds great for jazz as well as blues and funk.
Only a few years ago I bought an archtop- epiphone joe pass model that I realy like and I play it much more now than the SG style guitar.It has some sustain cause I put round wound strings and it has humbuckers.Tge only problem that in bass notes it feedbacks (on clean channel).do you get that problem on the ES175?
Lollar makes awesome ingle coils, CC model
I'm so glad you kept the p-90 on the vintage 175, because it has a certain sound and does that well, not to mention the fact that this is the original setup from the 50's. (Also, you've got the same guitar there as Bill Frisell's original, which he sold long ago and then recently got back ruclips.net/video/u4HGTWj3DDo/видео.html ). I have a 60's Epiphone Sorrento that I put a vintage-style p-90 in just to get that sort of sound. But I also play ES 335 and am a big fan of Dan Balmer's 80's Ibanez Artist (semi-hollow) sound, the semi-hollow can do that more modern sound so well! (ruclips.net/video/DibJxNuNzcs/видео.html)
I have a 51 ES125, and while it is a beautiful sounding and playing guitar, I have similar frustrations with sustain. One other issue is that my ES125 has no cutaway, so anything beyond the G on the 15th fret means I have to change my thumb positioning, plus the fact that I dont have that high D.
Have you tried a compressor pedal?
Yes, but that really changes how the instrument reacts dynamically (and sounds a bit odd)
Hey Jens thanks for making a great lessons. Today, I have a question about making jazz lesson videos. I have my own website and I am selling my lesson video to students. If I play some Jazz standards, what do I have to do for copyright? For example, if I play guitar solo over autumn leaves, do I have to pay for copyrights? Is it legal?
That is incredibly complicated, it depends on where you publish and what you use. If you are using the melody you have to be careful, and it will vary from country to country.
Jens what conservatory did you go to?
The Royal Conservatory in The Hague.
Very nice
I’ve always wanted a degree in guitar, but now at 51 I’ll just stick to my guitar lessons lol
I love jazz I play a Gibson les paul
And I really love it.
Keep up the great work, I love your videos 👍
Jens. Don’t change anything. You’ll be sorry that you did