How the Walker Spy Ring Hurt the F-14 Tomcat
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- The Walker Family spy ring gave a massive amount of top secret information to the Russians during the years they were actively spying for them. The ring leader, John Walker, enlisted his son Michael, who was an enlisted man stationed with VF-102 and the USS Nimitz, to join the effort. Michael stole thousands of messages and documents that seriously impacted the F-14's ability to fight.
Tomcat veteran Dave "Hey Joe" Parsons joins the livestream to discuss the ramifications of this leak of classified information and how naval aviators were hazarded as a result.
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I was on Nimitz when Michael Walker was arrested when we were in port at Haifa Israel. We should have taken several miles off the coast and made him walk home.
Word actually came in before before we pulled into Haifa. Not sure where they kept him, but it was not in the Brig, word got out, and there was a vigilante group trying to find him. I think the Captain or CO had him in their quarters.
Walker … it haunts me for many reasons. When my father was dying of Legionnaires (contracted during his tenure at NARF Norfolk) he was watch TV. The news showed the arrest of a man and my dad immediately said “that guy works in my building.” Walker ‘worked’ in LF-18.
Fast forward a few years I spent my life playing Blind Man’s Bluff. A game where Walker and his merry bad of asshats had put everyone in harms way.
Strange how lives intertwined.
He should do one on John Pollard, who really showed why we can't trust them.
@@taylorc2542 them?
I worked at NARF Norfolk during that period of time, and I occasionally visited LF18. I wonder if I walked by Walker during those times. I might have saw your dad too. I am sorry for your loss.
Later on, there was two individuals who were busted in a sting operation. They were trying to sell F-14 engine parts to Iran. One of the douchbags worked in my building. Unbelievable how there are people who will sell out their country for $$.
@@taylorc2542 spell it out.
There was a secret base near me, Pacific Beach, and it was a listening center , I heard after Walker sold secrets to Russia for peanuts he outed that facility and now it’s in public domain and civilians can go there for a meal overlooking the Pacific Ocean.
I remember the Walker case well. Two months after the case "broke", there was a message that all officers currently assigned as "Secret / Crypto control" were to be suddenly relieved and a new officer was to be assigned, preferably one who had not had the job in the past. My roommate was the SCO/Crypto control officer. He got a call to see the XO and upon returning from his "meeting" I was called to the XO's office. Yep, you guessed it. He was relieved and I was his replacement. Thanks XO; not like being Legal officer was NOT ENOUGH. Still remember the old adage that being "legal officer" saved you from other collateral duties!
Damn. I never thought about the cap on the desk trick. I just walked around with a clipboard, an angry expression, with purpose. Amazing how many people thought you were on a mission. But dropping the cover on the desk…brilliant.
Let us not forget that during the Pueblo incident my old squadron, VQ-1 lost a EC-121 and 31 crew, shot down by the North Koreans. Would they have been there, much less shot at if not for the Walkers…We will never know.
The Pueblo is the reason spy equipment was moved to cruisers and destroyers. I was lucky enough to do a tour on a destroyer that had it. We spent most of our time on deployment shadowing the Soviet fleet.
My dad was in VQ-1 when that happened, also AT Allred (Elvan Allred) but he was aircrew, he was really pissed off that US didn't retaliate. I gathered from his stories they flew water level with all their electronics off (otherwise the An/ALQ-41 would have picked them up) then pulled up and shot at them from below once they acquired a visual. Sickening $hit....
I remember when this happened. It bothered me so much. Later on when I enlisted in the Navy (sea college, 2-years scribe + 3 reserve) I ended up on Ike in 88 and was assigned V-2. Since so had 2 years of college and had computer skills, and since they had just lost the division Yeoman, I was immediately made Yeoman. While working as a Yeoman I was asked to take over the quality assurance manuals and tech pubs and keep them up to date and I would send documents removed from the pubs to be destroyed. I was absolutely meticulous in dealing with any classified documents. I worked in V-2 for about 8 months and was promoted to E-4, I had been recruit company Honor man and promoted to E-3 at graduation from boot camp.
Anyway I had been studying to be an OS (operations specialist). And once promoted to E-4 I also struck in to the OS rating. Once in OI department I was put directly under Commander McCrory (an f-14 back seater) who was the Division Officer of OI. Commander McCrory wanted someone to be communication avenue to the civilian workers (Honeywell) that were installing the new CIC information display and data link system. I had a background in computers and because so had also been a Yeoman and had worked with quality assurance tech pubs, it seemed like good job for me. What I hadn’t counted on was also being out in charge of crypto and the NAVMACs machine. I was again so paranoid about the now secret information I was dealing with. I believe there were 3 of us who were in charge of crypto. Part of securing the crypto and top secret messages was keeping them in a safe or if appropriate having them destroyed if out of date. I also remember having to be verified when accessing crypto and when re storing it. I don’t remember much except we kept a log on who opened and who observed us opening and closing the safe, what files we accessed. One day while in port, I found the safe open with no one around. I checked the log and checked all the files and found nothing missing. I immediately notified the OOD, Commander McCrory was notified and I ended up speaking with security. It really was a big thing. Ultimately nothing was found missing and they ended up blaming the previous shift of improperly securing the safe. I always wondered if someone had taken photos and left the documents.
It seem that there are a lot of people willing to sell out the US, always has been. It bothers me a lot, I’ve always felt punishment for spying should be public hanging. But I’m glad they at least died in prison.
Amen and Amen!
My dad was on the Ike around that time. He was a crypto guy, who usually rode on submarines, but did 2 cruises on the Eisenhower. Petty Officer Hammonds ring a bell?
It’s been a long time. I need to get the cruise book out and look up names. It’s a name I recognize but it could be someone else. I was on Ike from 88-90 in OI department.
I remember my father and I discussing the Walker crimes. He was a WW2 vet who passed 2 yrs ago at 97 and loved this kind of stuff. Wish he was here to enjoy the information that you explained and exposing a more personal, intimate, insider experience.
Great job.
As a sailor I also had access to CI. Mostly the things I saw were classified Secret. My brush with the effects of the Walkers spy ring was one day we received orders to destroy some equipment that we no longer used. I won’t say more about that, but it was very specific that we had to smash the equipment with a sledge hammer to small pieces and threw it over the side.
That makes no sense whatsoever.
@@DonWan47 do you know what sort of things were compromised because of them?
@@DonWan47Walker sold the schematics to the KL-47 and its key lists. The Soviets then built their own KL-47 and could read all of our message traffic. Once this became known the destruct order was issued. It makes perfect sense.
@@justinscott4503that’s what you know about. You don’t think there was anything else?
I was a nuclear trained EM1(SS) on the USS Bremerton SSN-698 from 1980 to 1984. My primary watchstation was Electrical Plant Operator, but I also qualified as a Reactor Technician and Reactor Plant Operator as preparation for qualifying Engineering Watch Supervisor. I was filled with anger when the Walker Spy Ring story broke. The information these traitors provided the Soviets was extremely dangerous for the submarine service. I believed then and believe to this day they should have put him in front of a firing squad on live TV.
Absolutely. Make an example of them.
I agree...
I was in from 82-86. USS Haddock. EM2
Felt the same.
I totally agree... And that couple that gave Russia the plans for the Atom Bomb after WW2... P.S. man a whole lot of studying... I am impressed 👍😁...
@@lawrenceharrington3180 wasn’t a couple. Was one scientist. You’re thinking of the guy and girl some 30 years later.
Ward, in 1986 was working at a remote facility doing radar cross section work. The fallout from the court case hit us like a hammer. Security briefings were given over and over for the next few weeks and I had to fill out the DD-049 security form six separate times. Those guys are still way-high on my shit list.
I met John Walker on April 22, 1978, at a bar in Virginia Beach named Reflections. We met through a mutual friend, who, apparently, had told John Walker that I worked at The National Security Agency. My job, in the USAF, was to repair crypto and teletype machines in some of the most Top Secret places in the National Security Agency. He must have been sizing me up and wondering if he could approach me to work with him. He must have sensed that it would be a big mistake and he did not ask me any questions about my job at NSA or any other questions. We, (my friend Charlie and my future wife , Sandy, and John) just had a couple of drinks and exchanged small talk before my girl and I went to the oceanfront to go to Peabodys Warehouse. When i found out about this piece of crap Traitor, I saw the timeline of how his sources were drying up and he needed another contact to continue the spy game. Had he approached me in any fashion, I would have notified my superiors at NSA. I am a Patriot, not a traitor. I would die before i would betray my country. I think John Walker sensed that! Kevin Massey Vet-USAF
Small world. I relieved Walker as Comm Officer in USS Niagara Falls (AFS-3) in 1974. My orders to the ship didn't explicitly specify which billet I was to fill; I had attended both EMO and Commo Afloat courses before reporting. The CO assigned me as EMO. A couple of months went by and the ship got a message asking why Walker hadn't been transferred. Answer - No orders. BUPERS oops. So, by the time of his transfer, we had been on liberty several times together. BTW, his COMSEC admin files were *perfect*. I had a periodic inspection shortly after his transfer and got one of those very few "100" inspection evals. Of course, it wasn't until several years after that transfer that we heard about his treason. I contacted NIS (before NCIS) and told them that they needed to interview me. I explained to the agents the most likely means by which he passed coding material to the Soviets. At that point in time, we carried a pretty wide spectrum of COMSEC material, and I know Americans died because of his actions. If his trial had resulted in a death penalty, I would have volunteered to throw the switch.
Just a couple of old stories about aircraft issues regarding the Navy F4B and Air Force F4D/E. I was a tech rep for Raytheon in the mid to late 60s involved with the test programs at Pt.Mugu VX-4 and later as a field engineer in several programs trying to figure out why we were having so many problems in Vietnam with the Sparrow program. Many people thought we were selling the government bad equipment so I and 5 other engineers were sent to Clark Airbase to check on the problem and requalify the aircrews. It was true the systems in the early F4s didn't have look down track ability but we demonstrated that with proper maintenance we were able to achieve a 100% kill rate against both the AQM drones and later F106 drones in high speed off aspect conditions in other than a lookdown situation. I need to interject here, a problem I found out on the very first day of testing with the radar maintenance crews supplied by the Air Force ( these were E-6 level techs). We have been bomb loaders for the past 2 years! This was confirmed by reviewing the maintenance records! Further confirming info from the Aircrews stated they were flying MigCaps with Sidewinders only. When I wrote to my superiors back at the facility about I had found I was quickly removed from the base and sent home by the base commander - something about sending classified mail through non secure means. Obviously my observation was that the problem was a command decision. When I was asked by Air Force what did I need to fix the problem I stated I wanted 2 two man highly qualified techs and someone to run interference so we could get what we needed and work with any local officials to solve the political command issues. When I returned 7 days later 2 crews and the most imposing E-8 Master Sgt I ever met who knew God and every senior officer involved so things went smoothly after that. We were also involved in finding out why our missiles were prematurely detonating when firing head on - seems the Mig engine fan was modulating our missile internal BFO signal to cause the issue so the requirement to be 20 degrees off headon - which to this day a big effort is made to shield the front of the engine. At the time we thought the Soviets might have some sort of jamming equipment - took us a while to figure that one out. Anyway I do enjoy your talks!!
BFO Beat Frequency Oscillator I have not heard that in forever...
@@CourtneyBest You must have been a Sparrow man
Before I was a Air Force First Sgt, I was a crypto technician. The Walker Spy Ring and The capture of the USS Pueblo with the crypto machines aboard compromised my favorite coding machine to work on. So the Walker Spy ring affected much more than just the Navy.
Nimitz class was first ship w/ MPDS(messages traffic by dept vs Radio central) As LCPO S-1 no one other than me dealt with SECRET. Everything I handled was hand to hand in my presence, then taken to burn room by myself. I was totally in panick mode when first took on this job and was surprised when I received Classified traffic on Sub positions etc which I had no need to access. In panic I went to Comms officer. He finally explained that because of the navys SSIC system I was receiving this message traffic. This was early on in Ikes service etc. We handled 30% of all msg traffic in S-1 Division. Later on the system was tweaked to preclude this.
Young Walker worked in Strike Ops -- we had MPDS in Ops Admin -- at the time the YNs printed with 2 ply paper (carbon in the middle IIRC) - as I recall we were in the shipyard when he was arrested .. this was after I left though
@@acsxfan1 Michael Walker was arrested in 1985 when Nimitz anchored off Haifa, Israel for a port visit.
I was onboard at the time. Just after that we operated off the coast of Lebanon (BENO Station) during the hijacking of TWA Flight 847 that resulted in the death of SW2 Robert Stethem.
As a side note when the results of the March exam came out just after Walker's arrest he had made Petty Officer 3rd Class.
@@DDGVET4 Thanks for updating my memory .. hard to believe that was 37 years ago - I came aboard right after the EA6 crash ..
@@DDGVET4
You payed homage to your Zionist masters.
Did you have a happy time in Haifa?
@@acsxfan1 That was my last Med cruise and it was eventful from start to finish. Not much liberty though.
Neither of my Med cruises were designed for a Liberty Hound.
The first one was spent in the Persian Gulf on a tin can during the Iranian Hostage Crisis in 1980 well North of Gonzo Station. Kind of hard to forget either of those. It was the days of "conflicts other than war'' that they don't talk about much.
I read a book about these guys. According to the author, the most Walker ever made was about $50K/year. Not only was he a dirtbag but he worked cheap.
Same as many high-level politicians. They sell out for cheap, mainly because they have compromising material on them already.
At that time. That was a lot of money
@@majorlee76251 That was the most he got. He often made a lot less. Also, according to that book, Walker contacted the Soviets not the other way around. The Soviets initially blew him off thinking the guy was a kook. He persisted and finally got them to fork over some cash.
I remember the Soviets had a reputation for being cheapskates paying for info. The US had a rep for being generous handing out money to spies.
@@majorlee76251 50k was nothing to sneeze at but a petty amount to ruin your life forever.
I served as the CMS Custodian on USS Belknap (CG-26) in 89-91. She was the Com6thFlt flagship at the time. There were huge changes to the CMS program throughout the Navy after the Walker spy ring. One of the changes was the restrictions placed on how long and often someone could serve as Custodian. This included bringing in different rates including mine. I was a Chief Operations Specialist and had one of the largest CMS accounts in the Navy...over 4000 line items. I was told this would've never happened before Walker. Custodians were either officers or Senior Enlisted in certain rates; RM, CT, IS, etc. Myself and a Signalman Chief were the Custodian and Primary Alternate for almost 2 years until we transferred. OSCS(SW) USN RET'D 1978-2002 AIC/S C/S "CRANE"
Was underway on the Wainwright when this went down…
What happened to the good old days when Traitors are shot?
Politicians didn't want to risk ending up against a wall so they got rid of it...
Great vid.
In the book “Scorpion Down” a connection is made between John Walker, the Soviets, and the sinking of the submarine. The damage that occurred is unimaginable. Had no idea it flowed into the F-14.
I'm glad that bastard died in prison. Even better, he died just months before he became eligible for parole. I saw an interview with that turd, he was downright proud of what he did and thought it was funny. He sure thought highly of himself, he couldn't die enough painful deaths to satisfy me.
As a Sub Sonar Supervisors John Walker affected my job and I noticed it without knowing what had happen.
As you being someone on the inside, did you read “Scorpion Down”? I am very curious if what is written is accurate?
@@fran5975 that won’t be declassified for a very very very long time, if ever if you believe some of the spicier versions out there.
@@ronusa1976 My "Navy cousin" and I talked about general Walker damage but he never talked details one way or another. He was plenty irritated. Walker was arrested before he went to his first SSN at the start of his 2nd enlistment. He was a torpedomans mate on the East Coast before getting sub duty. Even before getting on the sub Walker's spy info had some effect on Mk48 and IIRC cruise missiles, but no idea what the details were.
The Walkers should have been keelhauled....under the Nimitz...
Before the bottom was cleaned.
And the transit under the keel should have been slow and repeated till the flesh was... ok I'll stop now
@@majorlee76251 that's actually why it was so bad - barnacles and stuff cut the piss out of the poor sod undergoing that punishment...
@@karlchilders5420 i was listening to a drach video yesterday and there was a section on this topic
I was NAV/OPS on a LANTFLT SSN, 1986-88. The Walkers hurt us real bad too. A big part of why we won WWII was breaking the German and Japanese codes. All of a sudden we were on the bad end of the stick. Not a good feeling.
Yep in my opinion the whole family who was involved should’ve have been executed for high treason.
What Boat?
@@CYBERVISIONSdotCom I'm not going to say on RUclips, but its one of the 3 in your picture. Got on it when they returned from that little jaunt.
@@alexhawley3215 It’s not THAT hard to determine, since 2 of us were SUBLANT, and the other was a SUBPAC ‘37 out of Pearl. Since I know for a fact you weren’t on the 653 with ME, that only leaves the “other SUBLANT” boat. And of course I have friends on all 3 of those boats….which means I can Verify if you’re legit or not.🤔😳😬
😂Kip Hill says you’re legit, and also to say Hello. Told him I had a “douchebag reply” locked and loaded, but decided to check with him first. Wouldn’t want want to demean a Brother Phinster in Public. At least not without a damned good reason….
Kip also mentioned that you were one of the best Zeros on your boat, and I greatly respect his opinion.
@@CYBERVISIONSdotCom Effin' Cool Beans!! Pleasure to meet you. Glad Kip was willing to say I was legit and happy I earned a compliment. 😂😂I've kept in loose touch with him for several years. I'm happily retired now and spend too much time on YT.
Ahh the pubs... As a maintenance guy, there were too many to count. Hardest test I ever took was for Collateral Duty Inspector in the IWT shop. It was an "open book" test where you had to cite all your answers. Publication, section, page, and paragraph... 'Can't remember how many pubs we had for our shop, but it had to be 5 or 6 dozen at least. Still stresses me out thinking about that test and that was 30 years ago! Another great video Mr. Carroll, thank you sir!
At the time I was shocked that Walker got prison time instead of an execution.
The death penalty on the federal level has sort of fallen way out of favor.
I know a couple former E ring Pentagon folks that would have offered volunteered for the duty to end his existence.
He cut a deal. He sold out Wentworth and his brother to get his son a shorter sentence.
And I'm sure he also cut a deal for himself as well.
Remember, he knew the system.
And then remember, that killing was too good for him. But life in prison, he'll be suffering every day.
I remember hearing about it on the news as a kid and thinking to myself they should execute the guy to send a message to any future would be spies.
I believe the death penalty for espionage only comes into play during wartime. I remember some UCMJ articles carrying the wording "death or other punishment as a court martial may permit." A General Court Martial has the greatest latitude regarding the administration of punitive actions once a military member is found guilty of the offense he/she is charged with.
As a USAF Graphics Specialist in 1987 I did a briefing (Making up the slides) for a officer about the Russians use of Lasers to blind our Navy and USAF pilots off Soviet vessels. It was a classified briefing and the officer who had me do it had me incorporate some unique graphics tricks to highlight the diagrams to emphasize the effects and the capabilities of that effort.
I was floored when I opened up a copy of Aerospace and Defense Weekly in 1990 and found a article and they had taken the slides and cut off the "Secret" markings off and printed the slides word for word and diagrams when talking about the efforts I recognized the work and they did not take off my watermark ident that I had put on the slides.. I took the magazine from the base library to the AFOSI office and expressed my concern.. the OSI told me that because it was in print and there was nothing we could do about it.. So relax and do not worry about it..
Three years later.. I was visited by a agent of the Defense Investigation Agency and they were asking questions about it.. They determined that I was not the one who release the info.. but they were trying to track down who did.. Classified material, even when its released is still a concern in my opinion
It was imprinted in our brains as junior communicator that the official secrets act applied and the penalty started at seven years. This still burns bright after leaving the navy thirty years ago. I was similarly floored when Sixty Minutes did a tell ALL story about just the things I had been keeping quiet about all this time. I must say I felt betrayed.
Well, that truly is disgusting and it appears those deadbeat gumshoes should have upon publication properly investigated the breach, if there was in fact one as stuff gets declassified by different reviewing authorities ..
@@kitanisthe that’s outrageous. There should have been an immediate investigation and charges brought against the leaker.
I was a nuclear weapons specialist in SAC in the early 1970s, and those people were dead serious about the handling of classified materials. We never even talked about our job outside of the weapons storage area.
Yep. I was in MI in the late 80's, there was no talking about the work outside the SCIF. We didn't even talk about not talking about it. It was like a case of sudden mass amnesia when our shift got relieved. Also, Need to Know was taken seriously. You never walked into another part of the facility or talked to anybody that worked in another section about what they did. Never did find out what the guys next door to us did. It shocks me to hear about how lax things were here. This dude didn't even have a clearance and he was given access to classified material? He could move around SCIFs freely? Just wow. On the other hand, maybe we were used to doing things our way because of the Walker case and the changes it brought.
SAC was in my opinion run quite different from other military commands, yes we had similar policies on handling of classified materials .. but SAC was operating at a different "level of sophistication" and the inspection and over-sight obsessivlely strict with prompt punishment for what other commands would handle with simple couseling and other non-judicial punishments. So your comment about being "dead serious" concerning SAC's tolerance of mishandled classified materials .. is right on .. I was an Air Force officer in Security Police and investigated such incidents as a lowly "captain" .. and only a few investigations at that .. we had no repeat offendors in SAC! .. I would later work in USAFE with NATO - as a Security Police operations officer, and chief of police .. but nothing felt like "going to war" more than my time in SAC
@@dm0065 @
When folks would ask me whether we had a Nuclear Device on the pointy end of the SAC ICBM I was a Missile Combat Crew Commander of, I would advise them (in confidence, of course) that the warhead inside the RV actually contained balloons , confetti, and some CIA Surrender Leaflets.
That's how it should be, proper professionalism.
Yup. Still ticks me off from back then. Now, this latest instance needs dealt with severely.
Good clean read-out Mooch and Dave. It’s appalling the current situation.
I was a RAN submarine from 80 to 86 it horrifies me that all the traffic was being read.
Thank you MOOCH and HEY JOE. When I checked into 102 in December 1991 (IWT) the OPSEC and classified handling brief was intense
IWT rocks!
One thing I remember about John Walker was that he owned several real estate proerties in the Charleston SC area. It turned out that one of them was the building used as the local VFW Post!
Well, he was a patriot,no? Snark!🤣
Gentlemen thank you for a most interesting insight into the Walker affair. I hadn't realised that the damage went beyond USN Submarine capability and I was completely unaware of the damage done to USN air warfare operations.
I like your show Ward. I was an AX in HS 15 on the America.. The rotorheads are the first to leave in the morning and the last to come in so I went to the code room every morning to get the codes so I could punch the birds. This morning the door was open, there's no guard, there's no code guy, the safe is open and the codes are laying on the desk. Just about flight ops, I gotta get up to the helicopters so I set the codes, punch the birds that are going to fly. Well, they were yesterday's codes LOL…. And of course I took responsibility for it even though everybody was mad at me. :-) The Russians followed us everywhere and picked up all of our garbage we could see them scoop it up with nets. But everybody knew violating the rules and selling secrets is treason. Hell, there was a thing we did they still don't talk about I don't know why, you'd figure the tech was so old it wouldn't matter. But they are not listed anywhere. But it was all supersecret testing stuff we did for antisubmarine warfare. Thanks for your shows enjoy listening, thank you
Thanks for what you did, Bill.
Sir, thank you for your content and your service ~ veteran USAF
Navy!
Walker wasn't the only one selling us out. His buddy Senior Chief Petty Officer Jerry Whitworth sold the Soviets our cryptographic keying material. I was the comms officer on the USCGC MIDGETT in the early 80s. We were homeported in Alameda. Whitworth worked at the comm center at NAS Alameda. We picked up our crypto material from guess where and guess who. We were always sweating bullets at the thought of losing some of that stuff. If that stuff (all TS) went astray you would get hanged. It turns out Whitworth would go out into the parking lot at lunch and take photos of all of the keying material. He would then send the photos to the Soviets. As a result, they were reading all of the classified message traffic sent over the circuits that used that keying material. All the time we were losing sleep over losing custody of that stuff Whitworth was sending it straight to the Russians.
His dad had a bar in Mendota. When the son got arrested he closed the place down out of shame and went to live in the woods on east side of valley.
Jail was far too good, for these characters!☝️😳💥☠️🧐☝️😡❗
Between the Walkers and the loss of Pueblo, the effect on naval comms was catastrophic
I was in the CG in the early 80's and security was always a top priority. It is eerie to listen to these great aviators talk about their encounters the same time we were in.
Whitworth was not listed on wiki for "Spies for foreign countries"(I added it,but it needs a wikisplaination)
I heard about this, growing up in an Army family during the Cold War, but this video added a level of detail I hadn't heard. Thank you both for taking the time to help educate me on the subject!
Wow. Great story. And great hearing it from people who lived through it and affected by it.
Ward, you are doing a fantastic job with this channel !! Great work!
I grew up in Norfolk VA. We saw this on the local news. They said address where the Walkers lived on Old Ocean View Rd. It became a tourist attraction....
Mike Walker, a fellow AW, and
I were on liberty together in Israel. When we got back to the Nimitz, Mike was arrested right in front of me.
He had 150 lbs of message traffic in this rack he had not sent to his father yet. I was in the ASW Module awaiting my Aircrews Candidate School orders. Mike was a Yoman that worked in the ship's Operation Department Office. He got out in 2005 and now works in the U.S. government training folks on detecting espionage.
Haifa was a great port. Were you in 24 or 9?
@@glennsoucy4359 ASW Module.
The Pueblo incident was unrelated to a need for the crypto hardware. Walker (Sr) had already sold the KAMs (maintenance manuals) and KAOs (operating manuals) for every crypto system that he had his hands on. The Soviets could literally recreate the cryptosystems from these manuals. R/CTOC(SW) ret
It didnt matter what the Russians had, the hardware was not magic. The magic was with the key codes, just leave it at that. I was a Crypto Tech with US ARMY SECURITY AGENCY 1970-1974. You can have the machines and manuals, without the other magic stuff those boxes were just room heaters! Interesting fact, the only person to die on the Pueblo was the Crypto Clerk! My last OIC and NCOIC were on active duty during the Pueblo event and he told us some interesting events that happened in the Crypyo world! FJB!
@@frankrizzo1433 Walker/Whitworth was selling them the daily keylists along with the maintenance manuals. The Sailor that was killed on the USS Pueblo was Fireman Duane Hodges. He was not a crypto clerk.
They had the manual but they wanted the machine itself. The Soviets took the machines off the Pueblo soon after it was captured.
@@mikebaggott7802 Yes, I understand that they were removed, but they already possessed what was needed to replicate the hardware. The possession of the Pueblo cryptosystems was nothing more than a confirmation of what they already possessed.
Yes but... How do you know Walker is not a double agent? How do you know whether Walker is not giving you false information so as to lead your (Russian) technicians astray? How do you know whether US counter intelligence is onto Walker and is feeding him false information or allowing him access to manuals with misleading technical specs? How do you know whether the manuals and info you purchased from Walker is out of date? Answer: get your hands on the actual operational equipment. The equipment on the Pueblo was too enticing a target. The real question was how you could allow a ship like the Pueblo, with all this Top Secret and above equipment and potential human expertise, so close to a belligerent country like North Korea without adequate protection. Also, it was the information from the Walker spy ring that the Russians learned that American subs and other counter measures could track their noisy subs. This led to them to purchase the milling equipment from the Japanese (Hitachi?) needed to quiet the props on their subs. SUDDENLY, the Russians subs became ultra quiet. After the Walker ring was exposed we learned the how and the why.
This was an awesome video. I had no idea how Walker affected the F-14.
Read a few articles about the walkers over the years but did not know about the degradation of the F 14 fighting abilities
As someone who worked on USAF EW systems, this really pisses me off. I'm glad those traitors were locked up, though, prison is too good for them.
I am a former sailor of the USS John C. Stennis CVN-74, V2 Division. In mid-late 2003, I kept seeing a Chinese gal in chow lines, places of interest most every time I saw her. It was in Personnel They asked her what she was looking for and could not convey a plain English much of anything. We who were always on the deck or in the hangar bay always dealing with the Divisions constant painting (lol) I asked a MMA who she was, what division she was from etc, and those around me had noticed her too and how she would be asked to do tasks but would wander off, had E4 on her shoulder, and an Obvious Chinese name (Big whoop really) we had many "Chinese" but they were American. This girl though, was a walking red flag. I recall discussing her with some folks from other divisions or squadrons. My LPO heard this and took action. For some reason he knew I had no reason to lie or make stuff up. We all, many from several divisions, asked and was Literally told to 'Drop It'. Yet there were MANY red flags about her. The first one to me was, she could hardly at all speak English.. I'd like to know if anything became of that. I just smelled CCP from her. Many of us did.
🤔
Not true.
What position gives enlisted and low ranking officers access to all sensitive areas of a ship, and how did you have similar access to notice it? For example I never served on a carrier but I can't imagine just anyone can roam the hangers or visit the power plant. I spent some time as a Marine on a LST (USS Frederick LST-1184) and we were not allowed into engineering spaces, conn, CIC, etc. so I find your story hard to swallow.
@@DonWan47 We're you there?!
@@yeoldesaltydog7415 No and neither were you. I know bullshit when I read it.
You mentioned VT-10 in Pensacola. Next door to my family we had 3 guys in VT-10, Mace's Men of War was their class. Doug Johnson got assigned to A-6s, Paul Jenson got P-3s, and Clay Penson got F-14s.
You have an great channel. It gives a peek behind the curtain for folks who love aviation.
Unless it has changed since I retired in 2010, the Navy hasn't changed at all as far as classified material goes. I use to change all the safe codes in my squadron. Including all the secret and top secret stuff. I was also in charge of the COMSEC. I cannot tell you how many times I have gotten codes and because I was by myself, I knew the combination codes to both locks. I had access to so much classified stuff and nobody second guessed what I was doing or even looked to see what I was doing. What kept it safe was my integrity and professionalism to my service and country. The craziest thing was being on deployment to Sigonella, Sicily once. I was the only one to stay over from the squadron between the Christmas and New Year's Eve deployments. The base didn't know I was there, so when I went to turn in the COMSEC KICK loader that had the codes for the radios loaded in them, they would not take them because they didn't know I had stayed there. They said nobody from my command was supposed to be there because the incoming crew broke down in England. So I was in Sicily by myself for five days. The base wouldn't take my COMSEC gear, and I needed to goto out in town to get something for the incoming CO. So I took the long cable and fed it through the hole in the back of the toilet in my room in the barracks. If they wanted it badly, they were going to break the toilet to get it. It was only locked there for 90 minutes. Stupid crap.
My brother was in Boot Camp with Michael Walker. The two were friends and upon graduation, Michael came to our home and spent a night or two with our family. This was Dec 1982, I joined the Marine Corps in 1983 and remember when this all came about. I was in disbelief as was my brother who immediately reported his contact with Michael to NIS. We still have pictures from that weekend of Michael at our home. Crazy situation.
Byron....Yea, that would be real creepy....!!
That is when I joined The Marine Corps... December of '82... Of coarse few people at that time in that place, knew what was going on with the espionage... At least, my fellow Marines & I were not aware of it, at that time... I found out about it later, when my buddies & I heard about it, when we were at MCAS ElToro... The initial feeling was shock, then a sick feeling, then anger.... Nobody, wanted these people who committed treason against all of our people, to get away with this.... I can't understand WHY people like this are kept alive for so long after they have been proven to be guilty of treason.... Maybe so their contacts can be identified, but IDK.... They should be given hard labor for their remaining days of life, to pay for the many lives that were lost because of them, as hundreds of agents were exposed and executed when the traiters revealed who they are.... Anger, for who they are and what they did ..
They were still talking about the Walkers when I went through Army Basic in 2000....
The RAG in case anyone was wondering…
Replacement Air Group
When I hear something and I don’t know what it means, I look it up and learn something new.
This is my favorite military flying channel. There are other ones that are decent, but I feel like they’re talking at me instead of to me. Mooch speaks more like a college professor who is telling interesting stories, but he’s also teaching. At least that’s how I view his videos.
While you’re bullsh***ing, Mooch WAS a college professor at USNA!
It’s a little early in the evening and week to already be drunk lil fella.
@@LilSebastian_
?
As a fan of history and aviation this was great and informative. Crazy how much the Walkers really endangered the Fleet.
Thank you for this, as I hadn't known about this aspect of the Walker Ring and the damage it did.
Yeah ! love this video. I was a CMS custodian on the ground when I wasn't flying, at the time for the Tacamo acft. We used Guam Airborne Kilo Whiskey units. When the Walker case came out I couldn't believe the the Soviets were copying our complete broadcast from Phil, Japan and Guam. We had complete Intel of the Western Pacific on there. My biggest pith off, in the beginning, is as a CT I had students sent to the Pueblo and other shipmates to the Liberty. NSA sent me to Synop Turkey. Had fun there .My friends on the other two ships were shrouded in classified political BS. That was an American Navy crime. I changed rate to AT to be with my love of aircraft and finished my career with short of 4K flight hours. Skipper, love your videos, Thank You ! //ATCS sends
@Ward I would love to see a Part 2 of this topic, if possible, to include a former Soviet counterpart pilot to compare the impact of this leak on both sides of the Cold War. It would be fascinating to me to hear their thoughts/concerns in concert with yours. Did they believe the intelligence they received? Did they worry that it might be intentional leaks to throw them off of our true capabilities? Thank you for this content and all you do.
What an interesting discussion! Thanks again, Mooch. Interestingly, my 11th grade English teacher (Mr. Walker) looked like I punched him in the gut when I mentioned the Walker Spy Ring. He said they were his close relatives. Mr. Walker sucked as a teacher but it was weird to see a grown man caught off guard by a 17YO kid who paid attention to the news.
Jerry Whitworth is a guest of the government at USP Atwater in California and Michael ( now Lance ) is living on Cape Cod and is an artist. Not sure why he's not Jerry's cellmate.
Nice picture of Nimitz. I saw a few of my VA-86 Sidewinder A7-E’s on the flight deck. Sweet nostalgia. Thanks very much!
I was a Aviation Ordnanceman in a helo squadron on Nimitz from 1990 to 1994 this very subject was talked about all the time
We learned about the walkers in A school
I worked on a sub tender from 73-6. The shop I was in, performed repairs on every system on a sub, except the primary loop on the reactor.
You pretty much had to hold a Secret clearance to even be on the access list to be aboard.
There were signs all over! Authorized Personnel Only! Unauthorized Persons Prohibited!
I made a sign for (internal shop use only)
that read "Unauthorized Personnel Only".
It took a month for someone to see it and read it! And it was the one guy in the shop I wasn't sure could read! Good ol skool EN, dumber than a rock though..
Which Tender ? I was AS-36.
@@charletonzimmerman4205 AS-18 Orion, I think Subron12, in Charleston. Very interesting work!
Shop 38a
When I was stationed at State Department in DC. we had a civilian that ordered supplies. He wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, so one day we decided we needed a rubber stamp. It was going to say BURN BEFORE READING. He was actually getting ready to order it before we had him read it enough times till he figured it out.
Hello Mr Carroll , once again you have presented exceptional content , thank you. I being a retired member of the United States Navy, both active and reserve have always after hearing the news about the Walkers espionage, has angered me. I served in the cold war erra 1980 to 1984 , part of the tip of the spear as a member of VQ-1. Those people put my life, the lives of our country in grave danger for money. Not to mention the toll to naval aviation during the Vietnam War. I to Mr Carroll have a long lasting love of aviation and specifically naval aviation. I am somewhat of a buff , historian of this world that I was blessed to be part of. Thank you again Mr Carroll and may you have a good day.
Treason is such a sad thing.
even worse if is reason was greed.
Should have made him “Walk the Plank”.
This episode brought back fond memories. When the Walker case broke, I was at an EW contractor working to bring a new system into the US inventory. It was an interesting work environment. I appreciated the discussion on missile shots in a jamming environment.
Some best friends of mine, to this day, and I were on the America in VF33 and VF102 during that North Atlantic trip that Hey Joe mentioned. Prison was too good for those guys.
Kudos Gentleman and thank y’all for your Service. I’m an old Navy swabby from the early Seventies and the conflicting stories coming back from Viet Nam were not the same as the Lame Duck Media was Promoting at the time. Witch gave me the impression that we are not playing on the same team anymore. So I got out because of all of the Politicization in the Military at that time. Kudos to all Service members loosing their lives for the Land of the Fre and the Home of the Brave. All day long Yahoo
Mooch, While I was an employee at Bath Iron works working on the zumalt I saw detailed drawings of her on line. I brought it to my department head at the time and was told that if you want to know anything about that ship go to popular mechanics website and you could find what he needed top security clearance for to know about.
It didn't matter what level of classification it was or the system.
Ha ha P3 bunch of guys break out the pub and zorch around at 250 knots! So true, I lived that life as a P3B Tacco. I just about spewed my coffee all over my computer I laffed so hard when you said this! 😄😄😄
When I went to RM A school all the instructors were still there from the schools Walker days. The amount of abject hate for him was palpable.
Read Punk's War this past weekend. I liked it a lot. Be sure they get Glen Powell to play Punk when the movie gets made.
I was teaching USAF Navs/CSOs and we had a student 2Lt take Secret classified material back to his dorm room to study, when he was told not to. The Squadron CC inspected his room and the 2Lt is no longer in the USAF.
In the Army we call a Lieutenant an overpaid Private!
Thank you for this VERY REVEALING discussion surrounding the details and some of the important and significant security ramifications associated with the Walker spy-ring case. It is unconscionable to me how someone would literally sell-out (pun intended) their country to the Soviets during that time. I was assigned to the Naval Missile Test Center, Pt. Mugu, CA during the early 70s during the early development phases of the Navy's F-14 and the Phoenix weapon system. How a fellow sailor (Michael Walker) could participate in this spy effort is beyond me. According to an article in The Virginian-Pilot dated Aug. 16, 2020 and written by Joanne Kimberlin, Michael Walker was released from prison in 2000 after 15 years and now goes by his middle name, Lance, and works as an artist in Cape Cod, Massachusetts. I hope his pastoral landscape paintings now give him some level of comfort for having betrayed this country.
I like the teddy in the cockpit by the front windscreen
I knew about the Walkers giving dated crypto codes to the Russians, but it only was delayed information (RIMPAC coded shared after cruise). Didn't know about giving missile/operational aircraft information going out real time. This was GREAT!
The Walker case was blown open by John Walker's ex-wife Barbara. John had recruited his son, Michael, into the spy ring when he ( John) retired. from his regular naval position. When Barbara discovered that her son (Michael) was now a spy and that it was John (her ex-) who had done this to him (Michael supposed adored his father and would do anything for him...and we now know what ANYTHING consists of), she became so incensed she notified the FBI...and things went downhill from there. The question I always had about this was whether she would have notified the FBI if she didn't have all that underlying ill-will baggage against her ex- that had accumulated and led to their divorce. Afterwards she can say what she wants about being a patriot, etc., but I always wondered. I also wondered whether she would have turned against her husband if she really understood that Michael would end up spending the rest of his adult life in jail. After all, her anger was directed against her ex-, not her son. Guess we'll never known.
No, she didn't know Michael was involved at the time she talked to the Boston FBI office in 1984. She later admitted that if she had known Michael was actively involved then she would NOT have contact the FBI.
I was in service at the time this went down. Remember it well. Seem to recall Barbara and John divorcing before the whirlwind took place. Barbara had taken to drinking and had at several points prior to it all ending made drunken calls to the FBI which were ignored most likely due to her drunken ramblings at the time. She stated that when she finally turned him in she would not have done so had she been aware of Michael's involvement. Although no one can say for sure if that was true about her son, as she was working with her ex for a time during the whole spying fiasco. It sure shook up the whole Navy community when MIchael was taken off the Nimitz under heavy guard to prevent his ass from getting beaten by the sailors and marines on board the ship.
Surprises me that Barbara Walker was not tried and convicted of espionage along with John and Michael.
I believe that in this country we're far too soft on crimes that endanger American lives and national security such as espionage and sabotage. I get it that we're more compassionate and humane than our enemies....we don't do public executions even though most would agree that such a policy might have a serious deterrent effect against commission of certain classes of crime. Treason committed by espionage is generally not a crime perpetrated by whim or momentary moment of passion or anger where a consideration of personal consequences is overlooked. It is a carefully thought out and premeditated act or series of actions where a perpetrator has plenty of time to evaluate the potential repercussions of his or her actions. In my view, this is a clear circumstance of law where the death penalty's deterrent effect is warranted, not as an act of retribution but of prevention.
@@bearowen5480 My motto is and always has been "kill em all and let God sort em out"
A Woman scorned can lead to bad things which it did for the Walkers.
Fascinating - and of course, very timely (no coincidence, I'm sure). Thanks for another excellent episode, @Ward.
Another informative video. I remember when this story broke in the eighties. Our family (except mom) was all in the Military at the time. We couldn't see how anyone would do such a dastardly act against their own country. May God forgive them because I never will.
All intelligence services are on the look out for people like Walker. People who for love, ideology, or with blackmail pressure will betray their country.
The people who risk their lives spying for you against their country are heroes, yet the ones you catch doing the same thing to you for others are traitors. All fair in love, war, and spying it seems.
Why does god give a damn about spying?
@@DonWan47 spying is deciietful.....
Michael Walker got out of prison in 2000 and moved to Cape Cod.
I remember when this went down. A few guys that I knew on the boat said they had to put a suicide watch on this guy. In case he decided to steal a few tie down chains and an NC-8, then go over the side.
General opinion was to execute them on the bow of the ship, then let their bodies go over then under and into the screws.
I remember being on board the Nimitz when this story broke. Everyone onboard was questioned by NCIS about Walker's spy ring.
Your name is familiar. I was in R Div, how about you?
I was in VS-24, none of us except for the AW's and Officers were questioned and maybe the AT's because they brought film from the AC to the photo lab where walker worked.
Thanks for your service guys.
I recall one night when I was pulling duty and there was a red NATOPS binder (F-4) on the desk where I was manning the phone. I just picked it up and started reading. Now this was 1975 and I'm sure the Phantom was being phased out. But I'll never forget the look on the ODs face when he saw me browsing the manual.
The handling of classified material and other material content that's important to the security of our nation is an issue that should NOT BE POLITICIZED!!!
As a fellow UNS retiree I am glad your addressing current events albeit throughout the lens of another situation where someone felt the need to mis-handle sensitive and classified materials for their own personal gain.
The lives of our fellow service members as well as those serving the Unite States in other intelligence institutions such as the FBI, CIA and Dept of Homeland Security and others rely on, and depend on this material remaining safely and properly secured at all times.
I notice a lot of my fellow Navy Retirees responding in the comments section to this video like they do to a lot of your others,.which is to share a lot of fond memories of our shared service. HOWEVER ,.this aint about "sea-stores" loL!
this is about the proper handling of CLASSIFIED MATERIAL!
The American public needs the education that this video is providing,..
Thank God Walker wasnt some charismatic, wealthy political figure with nearly an entire news network devoted to his worship and defense with millions of misguided and devoted followers willing to threaten federal agents ! God knows how much more damage wouldve been done had he been,..
I could be wrong, but Hey Joe seems like any old guy you could pull up next too at the bar, and have a great conversation. I like that.
Sobering to be sure, and wonderful report from those who were there !
Another tremendous presentation Ward. I would correct you on one point. The diveable carrier you are referring to the Oriskany(CV-34) , which lies in around 130 feet of water off of Pensacola.
The USS America lies 17,000 feet below off of Cape Hatteras.
Regards.
Interesting discussion. I grew up in Norfolk and my mother was one of Michael's HS teachers. I remember the story well. I also remember the Phantom well. Impressively loud and dirty engines. :)
I understand the air wings, because of their reach, are the first line of defense, but there are a host of Guided Missile Picket Ships whose job it is to protect the Bird Farm... I'm sure they would have something strong to say about any enemy aircraft posing a real threat to a carrier...
This brought me back to the chapter “Dance of the vampires” in Red Storm rising. I wold really appreciate you sharing your thoughts on that.
Great vid Mooch! Thank you!
One critical note - I really do wish that when you are covering historical events like this, that you would simply state the relevant dates. Very good video, nonetheless. Thanks again, Geoff Rohde
I’m so happy that I wasn’t related to those people. One of my brothers said then that the Government was probably investigating many rings outward from them. My last name is Walker.
Thanks, Mooch. I have always been a fan of the "Iron Works" and their planes. Beautiful piece. Thanks again.
I did not know that fighter squadrons were impacted by this group of traitors. Well done Ward!!!!
Imagine the spying going on right now.
I marked it a like for the information & perspective it gives me. The Walker family was a disgrace to the nation, & especially the Navy. 😡🤬
At 17, John Walker, having been caught for a burglary was offered either jail or the military. Of course he chose the Navy. History was set right there. Whomever offered him that choice at that time used extremely poor judgement. Once a thief always a thief.
The "jail or military" option as always a bad idea.
A well known axiom in hiring personnel is.....past performance is the best predictor of future performance. And boy, is that ever true. Seen it demonstrated countless times in my life.
@@mikebaggott7802 When my good friend was young, he was given the "jail or military" choice. He joined the USAF. In his service his eyes were opened to a new world and new people. 30+ years later, he is a model citizen and patriot.
@@MikeF1189, I'm glad it worked out for your friend, it didn't for most and it sure didn't in the case of John Walker.
@@mikebaggott7802 what's the stats on that
The first clue should have been that he was a “4.0 squared away sailor”
During my years as a fleet sailor that was almost immediately a dead give away to someone not to trust
That's common sense. Not always present in bureaucratic, complacent environments...
During my time, most sailors were 4.0.... evals were inflated. If you had a 3.8, you were a dirtbag.
Back around 1996 I was QMC and also Admin Chief for the CARGRU 770 reserve unit out of NAS Dallas. I was walking into the base exchange when one of my subordinates, an RM1 was also heading in with a really beautiful woman on his arm. He introduced her to me and she was an Israeli citizen. You couldn't have pictured a more mix-matched couple and, being security minded, the bells started to go off that the RM1 was being played. We all went through security training and knew how foreign agents were likely to ingratiate themselves with their marks. I counseled the RM1 but it was disquieting that something was not right... especially with a supposed ally. I remember the USS Liberty.
In the USAF in the late 1980s, we knew the clipboard and the cover trick and they were well-used; in addition to the clipboard, walking fast from place to place, as if you were late for something was added and used by most. When I first arrived at my ops sqdn in ‘88, I wondered why everyone seemed to be running everywhere. Then I learned about line-of-sight scheduling, where the poor sucker who was there in the squadron and appeared relaxed or not busy got sent /voluntold to the next sucky place/deployment.
Finally got around to seeing this. What an incredible story and we thank you for sharing this experience. Going to buy your book series - any chance we can get signed copies?
Good discussion, thanks. I was over there when the Pueblo was taken. We steamed up near there and was awaiting orders, but nothing came.
Thank you that very informative episode.