I think that Nanami’s association with animals is a reference to the novel Demian by Herman Hesse. This book is referenced often in the show (it’s where the speech about the bird and the egg comes from). There’s a line from the book that mentions that some humans live as animals, and while they may appear human, their inability to connect with themselves and the world prevents them from truly becoming human. I think that Nanami being a cow is a reference to this line. In order to become human she had to find herself and her place in the world.
And as for why she was a cow out of all the animals - well, that's what amazes me most. Cows represent motherhood, but also birth. This was foreshadowed in the episode where she lays an egg. Adolescene is a huge theme in Utena. As the series went on, Nanami was one of the few characters able to fully break free of the cycle of adolescene Ohtori Academy is trapped in. When Nanami realizes she must build her own identity that's not connected to Touga... she does. This is why she appears outside Ohtori Academy in the movie- she's broken out of her shell, and has matured... into a cow. It's kind of like a reincarnation, and an animal that represents birth was perfect for that.
i'm glad you made a point of saying that nanami wasn't actually romantically/sexually interested in touga, a lot of people seem to dismiss that even though it's not even a theory it's literally what the show says. and same i really hope and believe that nanami wasn't in adolescence because she grew out of ohtori and became her own person
i feel like a big part of it too was the fact that in the movie touga had been dead since he and utena were very young, so a large crux of her character would have had to be arbitrarily changed (at least anthy's personality shift seemed to make sense if treating the movie as a sequel to the series)
@@dumbox33 and if you add how it was shown in the show that Nanami does not remember her younger childhood very well and how in the movie it reveals that her and touga's parents were s*xauly abusive it makes sense that she would have such a hard time telling the difference between platonic and romantic/s*xual attraction but she wouldn't realize were it came from since she blocked out the trauma.
@@r0se.brid399i guess I can relate to that too much lol, still processing whether that's what actually happend to me though. Have difficulty making friends with women now because of that bullshit, annoying because most of my friends were girls growing up and I prefer being friends with women because most men can go fuck themselves for all I care.
Yeah she was codependent and attatched to him but she clearly hates when touga tried to sexualize their relationship. its so weird that people still think she liked him that way lol
I wonder what it means for her that her palette is actually... pretty muted? The show could have given her bright yellow hair, like Tsuwabuki, but hers is pale. The only really bright yellows she wears, she wears when she is acting in that adoration of Touga: the dress at the dance, and her dueling uniform. Otherwise she's seen wearing her school uniform which is the same as every other female student, or her nightdress which is a desaturated purple that matches her eyes.
My guess would be that she only sees herself as an extension of her brother, and that she pales in comparison to him. When she dresses in bright colors, she's trying to be a bright and vibrant as he is.
As a lonely shitty child, I related to Nanami in a lot of ways. I loved her not being in the movie because, to me, she already left that academy at the end of the series as she was the only one to ditch her dual outfit. Her innocence was lost, but in its place, something new.
Idk where I read this but someone once described the whole being in love with a sibling thing is childish misunderstanding of the connection that they have with their sibling. It’s the thought that “I care for this person more than anything, therefore it must be love.” I think nanami is a good example of that. She really thinks that her love is true and real but when coming face to face with a relationship mirroring what she believes she is disgusted. Seriously appreciate nanami thou, a very intriguing character
She also desperately craves the idealized unconditional love she associates with family and thinks the only way she can have that in a romantic relationship is if it’s with her brother
It's the perverse, sad, warped extreme of "let's get married when we're older!" that very little kids sometimes say, not realising what they're implying. Touga abusing that misunderstanding is horrific.
I believe Touga did love Nanami once upon a time, given in movie canon he grew his hair long and put up with the abuse in order to protect her, fooling himself into 'accepting' the abuse so that it wouldn't break him. But since then his perspective has been so warped by the adults around him into viewing *every* relationship as sexual that he can no longer relate to Nanami as he should, he can only see her as another tool. It's sad we never got to learn more about Touga because he is fascinating. To me, the scene with the tea symbolises Nanami accepting herself and feeling secure enough not to desire Touga's attention every moment.
I used to feel like you did about the cat scene. Nanami was my favorite when I was younger, but the cat part was so bad I felt like it was hard to like her anymore. But then I rewatched the series as an adult, and I just ended up pitying her (and the cat, obviously.) Nanami isn't evil. She doesn't take any joy in hurting the cat, and it seems like she doesn't even realize the gravity of what she's doing until it's done. Once she puts the box in the river it seems like she doesn't realize that what she's done can't be undone until she sees the box go down the waterfall, and then it really sinks in for her. I think she regrets it deeply. She's a neglected child who lashed out at what she felt was causing her to lose what little love she was getting. It's not excusable and I still feel really upset when I see that part. I've cried my eyes out at that scene a few times. But I don't think it makes Nanami irredeemable either.
^^ THIS! Kids will do cruel things without realizing the consequences. All she wanted was for the kitten to stop being a barrier between her and her brother. She didn't realize until it was gone just what she had done.
@@webdrivertorso1362 I think most kids are animal abusers tho. They like pets but don't always have the best knowledge or even control to own them correctly. My cousin killed his first fish by over feeding it. Also maybe she thought the box would float like a boat and take the box away.
Nanami and characters like her are definitely the reason why the villainess genre exists, to try to give children like her the chance for a redemption and finding people who value and love them that they deserve. Considering she's only 13...like gosh poor kid.
Right? She kinda reminds me of azula (in a super broad strokes way) with how young they both are and how emotionally abused/traumatized they are, like, YIKES 😬
@@doctorwholover1012 yeah, theres also something to be said for a lot of these villainess characters (not azula or nanami tho lol) not actially doing anything wrong too. Tale as old as time where some of them may have just been bratty opposing girls to the main character/s. Though we do see a lot of different takes on the jutifiably called a villainess, non justifiably and the "heavily abused child who is acting out bc her world is literally falling apart around her" characters. Its no wonder folks empathise when more often than not they've been so terribly hurt through no fault of their own and that spurred their start of darkness /bad behaviour/just not being a gd saint and smiling thru mistreatment .
@@alanbareiro6806 That's rather tame too. I remember watching some Knight Rider knockoff cartoon where the main character's power was turning into a car back in the 90s. One of the characters from Magical Girl Raising Project can turn into inanimate object. While they never did turn into any vehicles, the option was there. Then there are also Kamen Riders Accel and Lazer who can turn into bikes. Anyway, the power to turn into vehicles isn't as out there as you might think, even if it is rather underused in media.
yeah because nanami representing a woman who was nothing but a literal sacrificial piece of meat to her brother being a real cow would be so thematically consistent. bsfr even david lynch & ikuhara have themes that the absurdity complements not overshadows
I found it easy to forgive Nanami for the whole “In love with her big brother” thing, considering Nanami is a literal child, she doesn’t quite understand what true and mature love is yet. She dates Tsuwabuki, but consider what that means for the two of them. Do they engage in any actual romance? Nuh-uh. Nanami says jump, Tsuwabuki asks how high. It’s a very immature understanding of being a couple since Nanami wants to be lavished and Tsuwabuki wants to make sure that happens, otherwise neither will consider themselves a couple, they think that’s what’s supposed to happen when you have a boyfriend or girlfriend... Like two kids playing house. Nanami does get called out for using Tsuwabuki as a servant but she brushes it off, proclaiming jealousy over anything else, when Utena is right in scolding her for this unstable young love. It also is manufactured on Tsuwabuki’s end because does he want a girlfriend? Nope. He wants to be a big brother, a gentle and strong man who takes care of others. Being her boyfriend is irrelevant to that. So how could I be mad? Nanami’s a girl dreaming of romance, hoping she can get to it as fast as she can, and the most exceptional person in her limited life is her brother. The egg episode highly implies Nanami has hit puberty. She’s hiding an egg from everybody, it has a lot to do with having a baby, Touga’s advice on being attracted to the same gender he didn’t think he needed to talk to her about, ‘she’s angry for no reason idk?’, Tsuwabuki mentions she has a health class instead of gym, which is a change from usual. Beyond this point, Nanami isn’t as childish and naive as we knew her earlier. She sees Touga’s way more of a narcissistic asshole than she previously knew. She thought he was perfect but the image is breaking. She used to wanna go back to doing childish things with him like bathing and sleeping beside each other, but now SHE’S the one to shut it down by saying they can’t do stuff like that anymore. She’s absolutely DISGUSTED by Anithy and Akio, realizing the gravity of how intensely gross that dynamic is when it’s actually carried out seriously. She can’t stand to even be in the same room as the two of them. The car scene. Just the car scene. “What do you mean? Isn’t this what you always wanted?” “No! This isn’t right!” Nanami is really the character who grows the most throughout the story. Sure, she remains haughty and cruel all the way through, but she grows as a person and has an understanding of the world more now. Why was Nanami a cow? I think it’s because she lost touch with that haughty childish part of herself and now exists out in the real world in the fields (adulthood) Nanami was able to leave Ohtori Academy and grow up in the new cycle after Utena freed Anithy
I see the cat scene as the point where Nanami needed to commit to her role as touga's little sister, she needs to prove she was justified in that murder. She is horrified by her actions and needs to commit, to prove her actions were worth it. To prove the cat died for a reason.
It's well known that Schrödinger's thought experiment with the cat happened so he could analyze Nanami's character without immediately writing her off.
17:45 I don’t know if anyone had mentioned this to you, but on Tsuwabuki’s and Touga’s cacti, there are flowers. Touga’s flower even blooms. In Japanese flower language, cactus flowers represent desire and lust, so seeing Tsuwabuki carrying around a cactus just like Touga might be foreshadowing that if he continues the path he currently walks he’ll end up a fuckboi just like Touga.
It also makes sense because Tsuwabuki’s love for Nanami partly stems from the fact he wants to be a reliable older brother figure like how he perceives Touga
Nanami becoming a cow / her animal associations is definitely a complex topic in the anime, but I think I have a simple answer for it in the movie. To recap, here's what the scene consists of: - The shadow players claim they have "a scandalous tape" to show us - Nanami as a cow, with a focus on her drinking and breathing. Chu plugs one nostril. - Goofy bit with her three stalker guys (now elephants). - Nanami-cow stares-down Chu aggressively. - Now Nanami's nostrils are both plugged by Chu and the weird red alligator. - Nanami is unable to breathe, falls over, and passes out. (Or dies? It isn't clear.) - The red alligator's beak extends and it grabs Chu, as if to eat him. - Cut back to the shadow players, they tell us "oh that's the wrong tape" and swap to a new one. - The real tape is about Akio, his loss of power, and mistreatment of Anthy. I think the purpose of this scene is to answer fans asking "why isn't Nanami in this movie?" It's too soon for the real answer: "Touga is dead, so why 𝘸𝘰𝘶𝘭𝘥 she be?", and they don't want the audience catching on so soon, so they offer a lie to misdirect: - Chu represents Anthy, the red alligator was originally seen doodled by Shiori. - Nanami-cow's stare-down with Chu is a broad summary / parody of Nanami's previous rivalry with Anthy. - Nanami never had any issue with Chu in the anime, so this makes it clear we should regard Nanami-cow, Chu, and the alligator as visual metaphors for their human counterparts. - When Chu and the alligator plug Nanami-cow's nose and make her pass out, the writers are saying "Nanami isn't in this movie because Anthy and Shiori have split up her previous role / story responsibilities and there's no room for Nanami." - When the alligator tries to eat Chu, the writers are saying "we're instead focusing on Shiori's attempts to defeat Anthy." Further observations RE the "scandalous tapes" as a pair: - When the shadow players say "that's the wrong tape", they're hinting that the first tape is a lie. Shiori 𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘴 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦 she's going to be an important antagonist but is ultimately ineffective compared to Anthy's trauma and ghosts of the past (IE the second tape). - The first tape is essentially a misdirect on Touga. He's not mentioned, but really it's about him. - The second tape being Akio, it's interesting to put him next to Touga like this because they're both dead.
Nanami being non existent in the manga vs being super developed in the anime totally reminds me of Cardcaptor Sakura and Me-Lin. In the manga she straight up never appears, she was added for the anime version to add another kid to the cast, and to have some drama between Sakura and Syaoran's developing relationship. Among a lot of other things, that is. Also the way Me-Lin is implemented in the story is pretty similiar as well, they both are basically the mean girl archetype who is on the losing end of a love triangle (Me-Lin isn't in love with her damn brother though! Plus Me-Lin is actually one of the most badass characters of the entire cast, in one episode she punches a piece of flying metal with her bare hands to protect her friends lmao)
I love Me-Lin as a kid. I know she's Sakura's rival and all and people pretend there's a tension between them. But honestly Sakura's relationship Me-Lin is simple, cute, effective friendship.
17:49 I was surprised when you said you had no idea what the cactus could mean when you just basically said it. The younger man is trying to copy the older one’s toxic behaviors to get what he wants, but he hasn’t quite mastered it yet. He’s on his way - you can see the pink/purple tuft of life growing out of the cactus - but it’s no where near the full bloom of the older brother. His tuft, symbolic of narcissism and using people, is not fully realized like that flower. However the thing he has failed to master is being manipulative and awful, something people don’t ultimately want to interact with all that willingly when they realize it’s in front of him. The flowers/leaves are growing out of a prickly, callously skinned cactus. Through this parallel both guys are entertaining an unpleasant way of being but only one of them has truly mastered it.
I think a really interesting point you kinda brushed up against is that, either by playing the role of a "witch" or just because of her own special characteristics, Nanami was the closest to the truth when she wasnt losing herself in devotion to Touga. Utena may have had the repressed thought that Akio was having sex(its rape, no uncertain terms about that) with Anthy, and Utena might have had the idea that the duels are a socially constructed falsehood, but only Nanami explicitly mentioned/broke through that miasma. She didnt shy away from the horrible things that were going on in the observatory room and she didnt let her "loss" in battles against Utena stop her from continuing to fight because she wasnt playing the role of a duelist and was pursuing an emotional goal untethered by the constricting conventions Akio created. While she wouldnt have caused the revolution for others, without Utena around she might have reached her own revolution and escaped before anyone else
I feel like not talking about the kitten and contributing it to her character takes away how far the "devotion" to her brother and the guilt she feels after the act.
I think the reason Nanami "isn't in the movie" could be one of three things: 1. If you think Anthy is in charge of the world in the movie, then it could be Anthy purposefully put left her as a cow as a from of punishment for how terribly she treated Anthy/ Utena in the main series. 2. If you think Akio is still in charge, then he might have gotten rid of Nanami because she had proven to be useless baggage that was getting the way of manipulating Touga/ Utena. 3. Nanami knows way too much about the truth about Anthy/ Akio, and somehow the cosmic reset couldn't wipe out that knowledge, so they had to put her into a form that doesn't talk to prevent her from ruining their plans. Also, I remember hearing that Nanami's VA in Japan was famously hard to work with, so they purposefully reduced her role in the movie, and that might be the real world explanation. ...now that I think about it... if you met a talking cow that told your the principle at your school is the devil and your whole world is an illusion, that sounds like something out of 1,001 Nights.
Nanami really surprised me when she ended up being the first to acknowledge Akio for his true personality. She didn't doubt her interpretation or try to reason with what happened, she cut ties and hated him vehemently. About the cat... she found it and adopted it into the family while she was young. The cat was small and dependent on her (not her specifically, but an older family member), and the cat was vulnerable in its position as the housepet. Touga and Nanami were adopted at a young age, Touga being the older of the two. He was a provider for her, as the adoptive parents didn't offer the emotional support she needed. She was vulnerable in her position as a younger sister to him. Both perceived their relationships differently to how the older one would see it. To Touga, Nanami was a child who he could manipulate and use because she was young, and he had an established position of power over her. To Nanami, the cat was a distraction that she could easily dispose of. This might also have something to do with the animal symbolism, as her agency tends to be limited like how an animal has little control over their circumstances when compared to their owner.
I've only watched the anime (I mean, I've watched it multiple times but still) and read the manga so I can't speak to the movie or the video game, but I always interpreted Nanami's adversarial relationship with animals to be an extension of Anthy's subtle retaliations against her. Anthy as a witch has her familiars, who she uses to undermine Nanami when the opportunity arises. This was actually one of my favorite parts of watching the anime for the second time. So much random nonsense in Nanami's episodes become recontextualized when you know that Anthy isn't a passive, blank slate and that she always had the power to make people suffer. She just did it in ways that couldn't be traced back to her. Like that bit about her passive aggressions against Akio's fiancé. Anthy knew she was hurting her, she just did it in ways she could plausibly deny.
The statue at 32:35 is bernini's hades and persephone. Turning into a cow is a very reminiscent of humans who have relationships with gods turning into animals
It's interesting I had an almost opposite experience to you with Nanami's character, her drowning a kitten was the first thing that made me more interested in her. Obviously I think animal cruelty is bad and I love cats irl, I would never harm one and never trust anyone who did. But, disclaimer aside, I found Nanami a funny but somewhat boring minor villain character but then when we get the reveal that she did something so incredibly fucked up as a child I suddenly perked up and was much more interested in her character.
@@webdrivertorso1362 I hate to be the one to break it to you but when a fictional character does something messed up it has no bearing on reality and only affects their own fictional world and so liking or not liking any element of any piece of fiction has zero moral or ethical bearing on reality. Maybe it is kinda messed up that Nanami's character became more interesting to me after I saw her commit animal cruelty as a response to deep emotions she didn't know how to deal with as a child, but maybe it's also kinda messed up that you decided you could tell me that on a random youtube comment knowing nothing about me especially when I'd already mentioned at length that I do not in any way approve of real life animal cruelty in an attempt to avoid bizaare puritans such as yourself.
I think Nanami's arc has strong ties with adolescence and puberty. The egg symbolism, the lack of knowledge of anything tied to reproduction, her outrage and uneasiness towards sex and (I'm reaching) cows being symbols of maternity, therefore maturity. I think Nanami's infatuation with her brother is childish in nature. She idolizes him, blind to his problematic side. Her egocentrism is super childish as well. Graduating Ohtori Academy, an endless cycle, a play where everyone has their role, means growing independantly from the role you're supposed to play. Breaking her shell, for Nanami, would mean reaching adolescence. The ignorant, egocentric child that is infatuated with her brother and conflates that feeling with love becomes an adolescent, more conscious of the "adult dynamics" around her and the implications of a feeling as strong as love.
I love Nanami, and I love this video & thank you for talking about her!! I would like to add a reading of "The Cowbell of Happiness", along w your own, in which the episode is about Utena /through/ the lens of Nanami's hijinks. Like, what other character receives a piece of jewelry from a complete stranger and then values and cherishes it so highly they base their entire identity around it, even though they don't fully understand what it Means to Be that Thing, nor the consequences that come with it? It's a sly dig that Utena is completely clueless about what being a prince actually means & that she's in Way over her head. That message hides behind the "haha funny cow episode!" guise though.
what a good reading! the fact that nanami is jealous of juri in particular always stood out to me, but under your reading it would fit with juri’s role as prince in the movie... lots to think about :D
I didn’t know it was possible to misuse the term “filler” when talking about anime, but I guess I’ve been proven wrong. Great video! Nanami and Wakaba are my top 2 favorite characters!
Nanami is always so interesting to me in that, there are people who truly despise her after it all, for her killing of the cat. And often these same people have room in their heart for Touga and Saionji, despite their actions to me reading as far more worse. Of course, I think every single character is really complicated, that’s the amazing thing about Revolutionary Girl Utena. Everyone is a real person, real damaged people. I wonder how much of that is due to the fact the cat is such a beloved animal, or the fact that girls are just always more hated in fandom. Perhaps a combination. Reminds me how there are people who love Ruka but talk about how horrid Shiori is, despite the fact that love triangle is such a pointed one, where all of them are awful in some way or another.
I like Nanami and find her oddly relatable despite her being a bully. In this weird surrealistic series, she feels human with her flaws and perks. The episode with the kitten made me cry, not only for the innocent cat but also for Nanami, who is a deeply troubled child manipulated by her brother, so knowing her backstory I felt really bad after watching the episode but couldn't bring myself to hate Nanami either. I mean her obsession with her brother is sick but we can see Nanami bawling after doing the horrible thing. Well, pretty much all sibling relationships in the anime are pretty twisted to say the least.
Wow, great analysis! Nanami was also one of my faves. Her taunting of Anthy was really baiting a bear, huh. I also appreciated her horrified reaction to Akio and Anthy. My skin was crawling away from my body at that point and it felt truly cathartic. I also interpreted her bad luck or close proximity to animals as being a kind of Justice for what she did as a kid. That and Anthy hates her and wants her to suffer.
A bit late to this video... but hey, I just watched Utena with friends, I am completely obsessed with it, and my world is changed greatly by this show! And by Nanami, to an extent. Tl;dr. I choose to believe Nanami jumped back in that river to save that cat. I love cats-- I can't fathom anything bad happening to my cats, let alone fictional cats. They're my favourite pets and I'd do anything for them. ...But I understand why that young child that was Nanami did what she did. And it's nothing but obvious how she regretted it the very second she put that in motion. I kind of loathe and love how the anime portrays that scene-- bouncing back and forth between the young child who is both in full control and out of her own body in that sequence, watching the action she did irreversibly ruin that cat's life-- and wishing she could take it back the very second she sees that box tilt over the waters. It's obvious it's meant to parallel how reliant she was on Touga, and how later on, he would start manipulating and messing with her in ways that nearly ruined her. But she came out on top. She came out on top of everything. To the point she isn't in the movie... because she's graduated. She's grown up and become independent-- and dissapeared entirely as a result. ...You can also think that Anthy didn't include her in the new school, as she famously despised Nanami for these very reasons and more... which I find personally extremely amusing and funny... ...But back to that young kitten... notice how Nanami, against all odds, sees through Akio quickly, separates herself from all the drama and loathes everyone-- as she sees everything for what it is. She escapes her fate and her issues and grows to the point of maturing and leaving Ohtori. ...I like to think she saved that cat. In an odd parallel to her own escape and growth as a person in the future-- little child Nanami managed to jump into the waters and rescue that cat before it was too late. I will admit that it's farfetched to think she did do that, and that everything would be fine afterwards... but we never see what happens after young Nanami runs back in despair after the box. And it'd kind of parallel the whole lake story with Touga in the weirdest of ways... which I think is both funny and rather touching. I do think it's coping and an extremely generous reading of the situation... but as you said-- it's never addressed in full after that episode-- and the role of the cat in Nanami's story is to parallel her and show her current situation and her future growth... so I like to think just like her, that cat found a happy ending, even if we don't get to see it. I don't know what she'd end up doing with it after that? Maybe give it away, since in the present of the show she still has terrible animal luck. Regardless, I like to think it's out there, living it's own life. Have fun, kitty... good luck, Nanami!
Maybe the cow thing is more symbolic- nanami being like cattle to toga cows can also be a symbol of survival in chinese culture- idk if that could have anything to do with it tho but its interesting
I really enjoyed this deep dive into Namami! I find sibling complex characters annoying, but I like that Nanami, at least, has some degree of complexity and I can appreciate how her complex isn't just a "quirk" to make her a shallow obstacle to their sibling and rival getting together, but clearly linked to something deeply psychological and it's a part of her character that she has to contend with and grow past. Also, I just want to say, thank you for saying that "if you're raised as siblings, you are siblings." For me, inc*st is 2 fold; it's the pitfalls of mingling similar DNA and the perversion of familial bonds/relationships. There's way too much Japanese media really hooked on the idea of it being okay for family love (especially that of siblings) to morph into sexual and romantic feelings. They treat the taboo like something really tantalizing and then go "No blood, no foul!" as if DNA is the only reason why inc*st is taboo. Bleh! What an incredible oversimplification.
I don't feel like it's right to ignore the part of her backstory where she murders a cat. It shows just how obsessive she was with her brother, she also showed regret afterwards. I also dislike the theory that she was an actual cow cause I feel like it dehumanizes her. Someone once said to me that the reason she is compared to domestic animals so often is because that's how she felt like when she was with her brother. She felt like Touga was the one who raised her, but would eventually be the one to kill her and devour her
If I had to put an answer to why Nanami is a cow in the movie... I would probably lean somewhere towards how Anthy always saw Nanami as an animal. She named animals after Nanami and tricked her into thinking she laid an egg among other things. With Anthy taking more control over the world that could be what Nanami is relegated to. It's also notable that the cow scene is seemingly not in captivity of any kind and Chuchu is also there. This scandalous tape could be of the outside world. It could be Nanami's freedom from the confusing world of adolescent humans. Then again she doesn't seem too happy so maybe Anthy is just playing with her again.
I like the "nanami is actually a cow the whole time" theory because it seems like something they would do, but also I think her animal associations are about her innocence and ignorance. Animals are devoted to a fault, ignorant of morality and sin alike, not really understanding things like sexuality like how humans do. She is in that way "pure" without being enviable. But this is Utena with very few right or wrong answers in analysis
Amusingly, I think you accidentally linked the point of the Touga and Tsuwabuki carrying a cactus. Tsuwabuki admits to basically learning abusive tactics of 'love' from Touga. Quite literally, his form of 'love' has the same thorns as Touga's, from a slightly different angle.
This video has honestly given me so much better of an understanding of Nanami. I always found her interesting (there's something really uncomfortable in seeing Nanami kind of... dragged into this adult world of abuse and sex she never actually wanted to be in), but you analyse the symbolism used with her so well!! I get her character arc much more, and I'm actually really exited to rewatch the series with that you've said in mind :) . Also, Love the bit on colour theory SO MUCH. I'm definitely going to start thinking about that more with scenes. I also really want to unravel why those roses appear in the corner of the scene/ to censor certain things sometimes. Anyway, love this so, So much, and pls do more utena analysis (if you want, you've already dedicated a lot of time to it with this and your other video! I'm sticking around regardless :)
Worth mentioning as a mental health professional - you actually cannot diagnose underage people as "sociopathic" (that terms has a lot of baggage that I'm not even going to get into here), or even read into things like harming animals. Children often haven't had the empathy parts of their brains develop yet, and that development can happen basically at any point until a person has finished puberty (around 25-27, much later than most folks realize). It's not until someone has passed that point where they will be unable to develop in a healthy way that any kind of diagnosis is even possible. There are many, many kids who harm animals and then later develop in "normal" ways with regards to empathy. This is especially true for abused or neglected children who often find certain parts of their development delayed until the later part of puberty. A child harming animals has very little indication that they will end up with any kind of sociopathy, psychopathy, or narcicissm (despite what lots of media would lead folks to believe), but it is actually a really good sign that folks should investigate abuse or neglect going on in a child's life.
I know it's been a year, but by any chance if you are capable to answer my question. Why is antisocial personality disorder being considered a personality and developmental disorder? it just from my average joe standpoint but by information available to me it seems like "sociopathic" tendencies can be considered as aform of neurodivergence? Or i m completely misunderstand categorization?
@@tslex6477 it sounds like you are probably relying on the more "general population understanding" of the term and how it is applied to people. Developmental Disorders are a collection of disorders that feature some disruption in the development of a person. While sometimes the disruption can be from biological factors, the diagnosis itself doesn't separate based on the cause of the disruption, just on if a disruption has happened or not. And a very common misinterpretation on top of this is that antisocial personality disorder implies that the person will be antisocial in the common usage of the word. Clinically, the term is referring to the difficulty the person will face in establishing connections with others and does not imply that they are unable to make these connections (just that it's more difficult for them to do), or that they won't be able to enjoy or function socially in many aspects that don't involve close connections. Antisocial does not mean introverted or bad at social skills in this context. Neurodivergence meanwhile is a catch-all term that can be used in a lot of different ways. It's not completely inappropriate to apply the term to include people with antisocial personality disorders, but doing so does not invalidate other categories. Remember that neurodivergence is largely a social term for self-identification rather than a diagnostic term. So to answer your question, it's not an either/or between terms like this. But I would similarly suggest that chances are that there are people without actual antisocial personality disorders who you are thinking of when talking about the term here. It's very common for lay people to call autistic folks antisocial or say they have a personality disorder despite this not being the case. And given the way you've phrased the question, I'd guess there's a good chance there's some confusion for you in that realm.
@@tahlialysse I did not perceived antisocial personality disorder in the general meaning of the word antisocial. I asked this question because as it was said by you in first half of this explanation. Developmental disorders defined by disruption in person's development due to various reasons and lack of empathy fits as such disruption of abillity to make personal connections in my understanding. I know that people with this disorder are not incapable of such connections even so they struggle with that. I have confusion not with perception of people but with what are, terminology wise makes antisocial personality disorder a personality disorder. As you said, it's not either/or it can be seen as developmental and personality disorder technically, but if i were to make my question more understandable. What defines personality disorder and differentiate it from terms that would be considered similar as mental illness, and how it's applies to specifically antisocial personality disorder. I am sorry if it's hard to understand my question
@@tslex6477 I mean if all you want to know are the definitions of the terms as they apply to diagnostics, look up the DSM 5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) and it will list out what the current standards are. If you are asking something else, it is very unclear to me what you are asking.
Your points about Tsuwabuki and that relationship demonstrating the cycle of abuse really hit the nail on the head. Thanks so much for another awesome Utena video!
Great video analysis! I love Nanami as a character. I really do think that to better understand Anthy you need to pay attention to Nanami. It's a shame that Anthy hates her so much because they really are so similar. The fact that Anthy treats her with malice rather than sympathy goes to show just how similar they are I think.
I once read a series of reviews of RGU on Tumblr that pose a theory on Touga's treatment of Nanami. This applies the theory that Touga's sexual abuse by his foster family carries over into the show. Essentially, he resents Nanami for her naivete and ignorance of the abuse he suffered. He thinks that she lives a privileged life while he was essentially a sex slave - and yeah, she has. He thinks that Nanami does not truly love him, but is just one more in a long line of people who just want to use him and that the person she loves is nothing more than an illusion - and in a way, he's right. So he lashes out at her. He uses her the way he thinks she's using him. He's punishing her for her innocence. In a lot of ways, his relationship with Nanami mirrors Utena's relationship with Anthy.
Her battle being ‘Adoration’ I think also applies to the automatic attention/adoration she gets by being Touga’s sister. Once she loses that, her lackies abandon or outright express their disgust for her.
I remember reading something interesting on TV Tropes relating to the cowbell episode: the episode draws parallels between Nanami's cowbell and Utena's boy's uniform, and how that affects others' perception of them. Just another similarity that she and Utena both share. I also remember reading a while ago a RUclips comment saying that Nanami may also carry some internalized misogyny and that her familial connection to Touga, in her eyes, confirmed that she was "not like other girls." When this familial connection is broken, she worries that she may be like the other girls after all. I think it's an interesting interpretation that adds a little bit to Nanami's character.
Ha! A very good video. I've always loved Nanami for how much she feels like an extra to a story that doesn't want to be about her at all. Forcing herself into the conversation of these other people playing at being adults... it's like she's failing at even pretending to adult - two steps removed from the real thing. Even when she's important to the plot after taking Touga's position, she still feels so artificial. Heck there's even an argument that you could cut her from the series entirely and still have a whole story (which, ya they did in Adolescence). I think in spite of all that I love her because she doesn't need to be tightly integral to the core narrative. She can just be another lost soul searching for meaning in the world and, as you said, ending up better than where she started. Keep up the great work on the channel, you're doing a fantastic job.
Ok, you really like the *Nanami being a cow* in the movie theory, and that’s cool, personally I don’t think she’s a literal cow. They show her being a cow in a tape, along with her (as a cow) and choo choo, there’s also those 3 nerd guys as animals in that tape too. Later in the movie while they’re driving to leave the school you can briefly see those same 3 nerd guys holding signs, but they’re human. Which makes me think that Nanami is truly a human as well.
If you get any child (and ESPECCIALLY an emotionally neglected child) and give them an animal, they will not know how to care for them, and eventually cause animal abuse and death. This is true for all pets and is equally tragic in all cases (cats are not somehow more special than say pigs no matter how adorable and lovable they are). It may be hard to see this, but I actually think this is a good depiction of childhood. People need to understand that children cannot just care for animals by themselves and do not understand care, life or death at that young of an age until something tragic happens or with good guidance. I love cats too, but when I saw Nanami do what she did, I wasn't upset at her character because ultimately I know if I were a child in that situation, I too would not understand that an animal would actually die from that until it was too late. Of course you can just write her off as a psychopath and ignore her existence (despite everything pointing against that), but I always try to sympathise with the child because their bad actions as a child is oftentimes due to circumstance and parenting. In the case of Nanami, this is most obvious, and her drowning the cat was not something that should be pinned entirely (or even mostly) on her. That said, I totally understand wanting to block that part of the show out. For me, I had to pretend the cast is like 14-18 instead, not because it would make Akio less of a pedo (he's a rapey ass pedo no matter what), but because these kids are way too mature to be as young as they are. That and Kozue is... Just way too much to be under 16.
OMG i loved your interpretation about the theory of color, and how nanami and anthy are opposites because yellow and purple, it's the first time that i noticed it! and yes, that makes a lot of sense. it's interesting how nanami is the one who gets actions and reactions from the "real anthy", who's usually dead inside.
Thank you so much for shouting out Empty Movement! They have been an incredible fount of info regarding Utena. ♥ I absolutely love Utena analysis videos because I always learn more perspectives and interpretations of the work, and this was so enjoyable as well. Love your videos!~ ♥
So i have two theories about nanamis fate in revolutionary girl utena and to condense them its basically that nanami only ever had her own identity that wasn't connected to touga or utena or anyone really was when she was a cow. She was no longer a stock archetype character or an accessory to other characters, as a cow nanami was free to live life on her own terms and was identified better as her own individual when she was a cow so my theory is that she achieved self actualization and left Ohtori academy with a cow taking her place due to it being the most memorable thing about her that didn't rely on other people's existence. My other theory is that she rejected Ohtori and simply became a cow similar to how Candace from Phineas and Ferb rejected modern society and lived with monkeys. I do have a third theory that Nanami achieved self actualization and as such became a cow as her enlightened form kind of like reincarnation having you become something new in your next life. Idk Revolutionary girl utena is a great show and is just so psychedelic and engaging so these are just some ideas i had.
Ah Nanami, the queen of filler episodes. This bish killed a cat so she will never get to my good side ever. lol. BUT she grew on me as a character the more they gave her backstory. Even her filler episodes despite being weird and funny, has shown a glimpse of why she acts the way she does. She's also a victim of manipulation and betrayed by her own "brother." Towards the end of the show, my hate turned to empathy and developed a deeper understanding and appreciation to her character.
This was such a pleasure. Utena content is so sparce, and this is so heartfelt and well thought out. I would watch basically any Utena analysis and theories that you felt like creating ⚔🌹
I’m just going to shill “The Palace Perspective” series of writings/examinings found on tumblr for its very nuanced and interesting take on nanami and ohtoris mythology as a whole, definitely something worth looking into
Haven't even watched the video yet, but when you said in your AMAZING analysis of Revolutionary Girl Utena (like seriously it's one of the best analysis I've ever come across. You opened my eyes to so many other veiws of the series, especially with the theory on the movie. Your theory of the movie being a sequel has changed my whole perspective and sparked me into rewatching the series again.) Ok, I'm just going to watch the video because Nanami is one of favorite characters, and I can't wait to hear your take on her. Edit: Ok, I just finished watching and I just have to say that I love your artwork. Your visuals add so much to your words. I don't mind you not taking what happened with the cat into consideration because there is literallly so many other things about Nanami to analyze. Thanks, for the amazing video.
One aspect I consider important to point out about Nanami and her cow association is the song choosen for her cow moments. The song is called "Dona Dona", and was originally written in Ydiddish by Sholom Secunda and Aaron Zeitlin in 1941. This song written by PolishJewish musicians in the early 1940s about a calf being dragged to slaughter while the word reacts indifferently clearly reflects the treatment and bleakness for Jewish people during that time. As the entire show is incredibly thought through, I highly doubt that the creators choose the song on a whim because it fits to a cow-theme but rather the reverse: Dona Dona was choosen first, then Nanami was given a calf to slaughter motive. I would also support my idea by the fact that in her cow nightmare Nanami killed and made into a steak for Touga's consumption. Of course the metaphor is more that Nananami gets groomed to later become a helpless victim of Touga's, the association of consumption of flesh probably ties to Touga's general treatment of girls and maybe even to the danger that he would hurt Nanami exactly in the way that Akio hurts Anthy.
Anthy, getting two full weeks away from Akio as Utena: i will literally do this forever if I'm allowed yes go to India Nanami and wait another thousand years.
For the cow theory: i believe that the cow video, as clearandsweet said, was Anthy trying to distract Utena with a joke from talking to her. While Nanami's cow symbolism is linked to how she WAS with Touga under Akio: a cow to slaughter. Now, disappeared from Ohtori, she's free to be her own person as an adult. At least that is what I think.
I just have to put something here quickly, the correct order for the episodes 6 through 8 are 8,7,6 because the eight episode wasn't finished on time. That's why it doesn't make sense that we see the diary in the curry trip being burned and on take care miss Naming it appears again.
I think, that Nanami turned into a cow in Adolescence because in episode 38 she took off her ring, and said, that she don't wants anymore to be a "duelist", and she wants to forget about all of this. But the stage is set again, and everyone needs to choose yourself a role, and, the only role that was left for Nanami - is a cow. She is still somewhere in the academy, as a cow, waiting for the end, without having any worry. Nanami is just a child, her episodes are best indication of it, thus, I remind myself everytime i rewatching Utena - it isn't she, who act abnormal, it's everybody else - it's they trying to "act", it's they can't say their true feelings. Or Himemiya just rekt her because she is hate her, and she is now in charge, not Akio, idk
I watched this video a few days ago but I just wanted to come back to say im STILL thinking about it. like wow. I loved Nanami but her arc and "purpose" in the show was a lil confusing, and your analysis was BEAUTIFUL AND WELL WRITTEN THANK YOUUU
i LOVED this video, nanami is one of my favorite utena characters and you absolutely did her justice here. i think you made a Great point about nanami's reaction with the drowned boy story because that's just. So much of nanami's character and desires, what she wants versus what she actually is given. (warning i Am going to touch on the cat scene though not directly mentioning it or going in depth) as a child, nanami wanted her brother's attention back and didn't Really think about the implications of what that meant. as a young teenager, she wanted a relationship with touga but as the series goes on the only """relationship""" he offers is one she definitely doesn't want. and she wants to hear how juri's story ends, but can't really handle the actual ending. her parents treatment of her aside, nanami grew up being able to get what she wanted because she has the wealth to get the results without thinking about what it takes to get them. but as she grew up and was abandoned further by her underlings and brother and had to do things by herself, she began to see what it takes to get what she wants and she can't handle it. the nanami of the last episode could not do what her younger self did, because she, at age 13, has experienced her safety and innocence being taken from her and is now painfully aware of what consequences are to be had for her actions.
There was an Utena 20th anniversary manga released some time ago and while a manga is apparently canon to the anime. I do not recall if Nanami is mentioned but it does show the other student coubcil membets fates and i clearly rememver Juri and Shiori's and while they are together Shioro is a toxic and manipulative user of Juri abd after being haunted by Ruka's ghost and getting hit with visuals from the movie breaks up with Shiori and fires ger as her manager, while this video was about Nanami that last bit at the end about the ending being uolifting with their counteroarts sadly did not come true, apparently the only good ending for Juri came from Ruka and Utena's ghosts inspiring her to cut Shiori out of her life.
You know, what makes the kitten episode even more heart-wrenching is that the animals in this anime are really realistically drawn. They are not cartoonish like the animals in, say, the 90s' Sailor Moon. It's weird. I don't really feel that violated from fictional violence against humans or even children (unless there is real sadism involved or the person hurt is written as a close family member etc.) but I really feel bad from abuse and violence against animals even if it's fictional. That's why I felt a pang at 7:30 because I remembered Nanami's horrible deed even if the scene I time-stamped with Touga kissing Nanami with the kitten in the background would be otherwise adorable.
The Cat Thing: that moment was a signal that the show was going to be taken seriously. It was a loss of innocence. Both for Nanami, because I think she became aware of death and consequence in that moment, but also loss of innocence for the audience. Her feelings CAN'T be a light joke after that. We see how twisted her need to be first in her brother's life really is, how low she was willing to go. How much she fears abandonment. We know that it's not something that could be solved with a simple crush on another guy, that it would have to be a life-changing paradigm shift for her to change. The stakes of Nanami's feelings are life and death for her. It seems impossible that she could be different : after you do something that terrible, how could you dare to change? On the other side of it, poor Touga. The drowning parallel! He lost his chance at uncomplicated love and comfort, at least in this cycle. The kitten was simple, it wouldn't turn against him or use him and it would never have been a pawn for his own games. He might have been able to be a kinder person. Nanami was so obsessed to be first she couldn't let anything come between them, not even a gift SHE gave, not even something her brother loved. Iirc it was ambiguous whether Touga ever found out? I think this is the moment the fall started: Touga grew apart from her and began to stop loving honestly. Whether from one more heartbreak too many or because on some level he knew. Even Nanami's adoration came with sacrifice. (I think there's a way to tie this back into Anthy and Akio...when we love someone, when we feel guilty, we demand sacrifices from them in turn. When love twists into obsession, it's selfish and we take back everything we gave and more. It's the mundane, heartwrenching example of the same forces behind Anthy and Akio's eternal revolution)
I somehow found your video whilst looking up Utena subjects at random. I really loved this video. The thing I love about all itinerations of Utena are that they're so layered & complex & also play off one another that there's always something to learn & find anew. I have to say that you definitely made me aware of some things that I had either not thought myself or read / researched. I actually really like the idea that Nanami isn't in the movie because she has escaped the cycle of Ohtori. & while I don't at all think she's an actual cow, I do think that more quixotic viewpoint was entertaining to watch & listen to. Anyway, I look forward to watching more of your videos!
Now having finally seen this show - it's apparently been free on youtube all this time - can I pose a possible alternative interpretation for the why of Nanami? I think part of why Nanami undergoes such wild changes in characters isn't just because of the clothes, but because she has no personal defined sense of self. She has completely allowed herself to be defined by others without ever thinking about who she really is. So, she becomes whatever anyone expects of her. The incest undertones she has early on? It's because people can only see that as the explanation for her behavior, so she conforms to it. She puts on the duelist outfit and becomes a good swordsman, because you wouldn't expect her to challenge Utena without being good at sword fighting and doing it for her brother is . . . well, I don't think your interpretation about her defining herself by her brother is necessarily wrong, but I also kind of think that she's only able to compete on any level because that expectation comes with the situation. When she takes over for her brother on the council, with no character evolution at all, she suddenly becomes a more serious character, because that's the expectation people have for that position. She puts on a cowbell, she becomes a cow because only cows wear cowbells. I think part of the symbolism here is that Nanami doesn't know who she is, so she is completely defined by what people expect of her and that shifts according to the situation she puts herself in. It's only after the adoption reveal that she loses that part of her identity and has to become her own character. If she didn't do so, she probably would have just disappeared from the story entirely. She had no other option if she wanted to keep existing. Or maybe not, I dunno. This show is weird. >.> And I kinda love it.
Nanami is often the highlight in the filler episodes. From Nanami getting a taste of Karma when she tried to travel to India to get the spice to get Utena and Anthy back to normal. To Nanami wanting a Cowbell to be ahead of fashion only to turn into a Cow because of her vanity. And Nanami wondering if laying an egg is considered normal but she is too embarrassed to be outed as a weird person considering back in season 1 episode 4 Nanami is often trying to sabotage Anthy's friendship with Utena when she tries 3 seperate occasions to out Anthy as a weirdo who keeps a snail/snake/octopus in her room.
RE RE RE WATCHING this video in section about theater. The way the characters have specific outfits giving them a specific role. Join to the theory of the soft reboot. It makes me think of comedia Commedia dell'arte. Played with masks each having their specific role and personality recognizable by their mask, no matter who plays the role, all the stories that exist but are basically all the same format. It's like a theater played played each night with slight variation
Great video, love the analysis of Nanami. My own headcanon for Cow Nanami being in the movie, I think it's a choice of her own in this loop. Cows tend to represent a state of contentment, and she's chosen peace over dealing with this loop, and Toga. She hasnt grown past him, which is why she's still there, but she's on the path to. Edit: WHY DID I JUST NOW REALIZE THIS IS A 2 YEAR OLD VIDEO 😬 Still a great video, but wishing I had watched it sooner 😂
your analysis continues to be so well thought out and enjoyable! i am going to watch out for the cactus in my rewatch-the yellow flower blooming is pretty obvious nanami symbolism, but i don’t know about the pink on tsuwabuki’s... it struck me when you talked about nanami losing touga that it’s a precursor to utena losing the man /she/ built her identity around, dios, and having to rebuild herself in the final moments of the anime/into the movie. nanami is such a great character-the comic relief having shared attributes and story beats with both anthy and utena? so powerful. thanks for talking about her! (also: i would buy utena stickers if you made them!)
It's ok. I feel the same way about characters harming animals. Cats especially (I have two). It really ruins things for me. It's hurting something that registers as pure and childlike. Dependent and/or trusting of you. So it's sick to think about.
Slightly different interpretation, especially if you find the drowned cat traumatizing: Nanami introduced a girl (the 'kitten' being a creative representation, or possibly even a traumatic repression or lie she told people later) to her (possibly adopted?) Brother Touga. He showed interest in her, (platonicly or otherwise). Nanami gets jealous and confronts them, and the argument ends with Nanami pushing the girl (probably the one telling the story about a 'drowned sister', since as a ghost she wont remember *herself* drowning) into the river. Touga freaks out and tries to save her from drowning, but the waters to strong so they *both* drown. Nanami, deeply traumatized from basically causing double homicide, misdirects her self loathing on the girl, blaming her for because 'if she had never gotten Touga's attention, none of this would have ever happened.'
I love your channel and video essays, but I'm really out here saying "I thought so too!" out loud and getting embarrassed lol. This show was such an eye-opener for me! I remember being really focused on being the cool prince. Then I watched Utena. It was an average show for me for the pilot, but I stayed for the aesthetics. I watched the entire series in 2 weeks. By tearing down the archetypes that I often imitated to being mad at myself for not being the perfect ideal I was reaching for, I saw myself in the characters, and I saw how destructive I would be to myself and the people around me. It's a show that confused me, helped me, and made me genuinely interested in the deeper themes. I really appreciate the work you all put into this. I've always suppressed dissecting and using indirect messages because I had disliked the chance to express my feelings openly. After all, it was bad for the aforementioned image. Now whenever I watch people like you have invested conversations and essays about this show which has immensely impacted me and has done the same for them, I get a tad emotional. In summary, Utena is important to me, Utena is important to you, I like having people talk about it in depth because it makes me warm inside.
i took the cat scene as showing how far tougas manipulation of nanami can go. he uses her to hurt others often; like the opposite of a save the cat moment.
I realize I'm late to this discussion, but I figured I'd give my read on Touga, particularly in how it relates to my background as a (burned out) Social Worker who's... seen some unfortunate shit. Incoming wall of spaces to save those who do not wish to deal with talk of child abuse, particularly of the sexual kind. So, Touga. I feel like even within just the anime it's fairly clear that Touga is a victim perpetuating a cycle of abuse, and I feel like there's an aspect of that cycle that often times gets overlooked. While not always a factor, there's a non insignificant percentage of victims of abuse (particularly when that abuse happens young) to sort of shape all their interactions of a certain type. In Touga's case, it's fairly evident that he was sexually abused, by Akio at the very least, probably alongside Saionji. This only gets reinforced if we take Adolesence into account as additional material that was withheld in the show. With that in mind, it would not be out of the realm of possibility that Touga genuinely does care for Nanami - or at least has convinced himself of such things - but not have any real experience or socialization to contextualize those feelings outside of the abuse. I hadn't really given that angle too much consideration in the context of just the show because when Akio entered the scene, Touga was ostensibly 17, and would've had better socialization, etc. However, with the context of the movie placing the start of that abuse MUCH younger, it's absolutely believable that he simply doesn't know of any other way to interact with Nanami other than flirting with her, especially if Akio is encouraging such behavior behind the scenes. Also, with the idea that Touga was actually dead all along in the show and just... forgot he died, the distance used in the framing of Nanami and Touga could be indicative of that. Her brother was close but got distant all of a sudden... when he died. Heck there's an argument to be made then that Touga is also playing a role to Nanami as well, seeing how she idolizes him, he aspires to be the kind of person she thinks of him as, and the only person that even remotely fits that "idealized" vision of success, wealth, power, etc. is... Akio, leaving Touga to emulate his own abuser, normalizing Akio's abuse and internalizing. Convincing himself that it's "normal," creating a sort of feedback loop into the overtly flirting he does with Nanami. Ultimately making him a ghost trying to be the Machiavellian prince he aspires to be, with no way to accomplish it that he can see other than emulating Akio.
not even done with the video yet and i’m already obsessed with your analysis. i’m glad someone overthinks as much as me, your video is very well done👏🏼👏🏼
In Hindu culture, the cow is revered as an avatar of innocence. I would not discount that as a possible view Anthy has of Nanami. Innocence incarnate. And it’s why Anthy views her this way in the movie.
i think that conversation about the drowned boy is very enlightening as to what was going on in nanami's head all those years ago with her brother's cat. She's the youngest and death isn't as real to her yet, and even at her big ass age she genuinely thought there was hope that the drowned boy would be fine. I don't think this means she doesn't know what she was doing (after the box goes over the cliff her expression of realization is so sad) but i do think her tunnel vision saw it solely as "get rid of it, make it go away" to "protect" her relationship w touga. i think she felt awful abt it enough to delude herself into thinking the cat (and a little bit, her relationship w her brother) could still be ok, and then that notion was shattered. idk i have only witnessed this series in passing n i had to dip in as a sapphic english major :)
I like this video essay as a lot, though I slightly disagree on your interpretation of the cat scene. I think that while the story is hugely symbolic, the drowning was a very grounded scene. I think she did kill that cat, and I think she's still sympathetic. I love animals a lot, I'm dedicating my life to their study (wildlife biologist), but no act you do (especially as a child) is unforgivable. Anthy helping to groom Utena and her being forgiven is a huge example of this. Additionally, even if she is a psychopath, she is still deserving of understanding and care. She's a thirteen year old girl trying to find her place in the world, even if how she does it is wrong. She felt intense guilt afterwards judging by the crying and running away, similar to how she reacts after discovering Anthy and Akio. She turns these negative emotions into anger, and doubles down, but in the end she grows and learns to be a better person and less dependent on her brother.
i'm glad that you prompted people to watch the nanami episodes for the tonal shift, it was so helpful to have some levity in between the existentialism
I know I'm kinda late but I actually gasped when I saw this pop up in my recommendations. I loved your first video on this series and I'm so excited to see your views on one of my favourite characters.
this was such a great video x) in addition to being young and stupid (or maybe explaining why), I've always considered Utena and Nanami to be the only characters in the show that really Feel like they could actually BE middle schoolers, Nanami especially. In a world where so much is metaphorical and symbolic, Nanami feels like a foil to the rest of the cast by being a more realistic or classic depiction of a young teenager at school who is then thrust into and visibly traumatized by the awful truth of the situation (Utena and everyone else too but Nanami's age feels the most Real to me)
I think you are adorable, and I hope you get the traffic that you deserve. I haven’t watched all of the episode to this series, but I love how you explained her character. I really thought she was just going to be comic relief, but after watching this I now have a soft spot for her. she’s weirdly relatable... in her own.. weird way haha
I agree that the ending is a lot more hopeful than it seems at first viewing; anthy basically confirms that there is a lot more change happening than on the surface. There used to be--idk if it's still going on, the guys doing it haven't added to the series in a while--an episode by episode utena analysis that posited the Nanami episodes were like miniatures of the series as a whole. Aaaand I do need to watch princess tutu don't I. Weirdly I clicked on this video 5 minutes after it was uploaded because I found your animations, cheers to being in the right place at the right time
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I find it interesting that Nanami is the youngest of the main cast, and thus has a much more malleable sense of identity.
Am I really going to watch a 44 minute analysis of a character I don’t know from an anime I’ve never seen? Yes I am!
Omg I’m doing that now I don’t know what’s going on but here I am
@@Lalalaitzvannyyy ey same 😎👍
I have no idea why I watched it but it was really interesting
@@joy7367 yeah, same
SAAAME
I think that Nanami’s association with animals is a reference to the novel Demian by Herman Hesse. This book is referenced often in the show (it’s where the speech about the bird and the egg comes from). There’s a line from the book that mentions that some humans live as animals, and while they may appear human, their inability to connect with themselves and the world prevents them from truly becoming human. I think that Nanami being a cow is a reference to this line. In order to become human she had to find herself and her place in the world.
And as for why she was a cow out of all the animals - well, that's what amazes me most. Cows represent motherhood, but also birth. This was foreshadowed in the episode where she lays an egg.
Adolescene is a huge theme in Utena. As the series went on, Nanami was one of the few characters able to fully break free of the cycle of adolescene Ohtori Academy is trapped in. When Nanami realizes she must build her own identity that's not connected to Touga... she does. This is why she appears outside Ohtori Academy in the movie- she's broken out of her shell, and has matured... into a cow. It's kind of like a reincarnation, and an animal that represents birth was perfect for that.
@@rebeccab.3748My mind is blown. x_x
@@rebeccab.3748 thank you!!!!
@@rebeccab.3748 omg I love this explanation
i'm glad you made a point of saying that nanami wasn't actually romantically/sexually interested in touga, a lot of people seem to dismiss that even though it's not even a theory it's literally what the show says. and same i really hope and believe that nanami wasn't in adolescence because she grew out of ohtori and became her own person
i feel like a big part of it too was the fact that in the movie touga had been dead since he and utena were very young, so a large crux of her character would have had to be arbitrarily changed (at least anthy's personality shift seemed to make sense if treating the movie as a sequel to the series)
Yeah.
That's for the twins in the manga.
And doubled down on in the epilogue manga of the manga.
@@dumbox33 and if you add how it was shown in the show that Nanami does not remember her younger childhood very well and how in the movie it reveals that her and touga's parents were s*xauly abusive it makes sense that she would have such a hard time telling the difference between platonic and romantic/s*xual attraction but she wouldn't realize were it came from since she blocked out the trauma.
@@r0se.brid399i guess I can relate to that too much lol, still processing whether that's what actually happend to me though.
Have difficulty making friends with women now because of that bullshit, annoying because most of my friends were girls growing up and I prefer being friends with women because most men can go fuck themselves for all I care.
Yeah she was codependent and attatched to him but she clearly hates when touga tried to sexualize their relationship. its so weird that people still think she liked him that way lol
Utena really was so ahead of it’s time.. manga Touga had E-Girl streaks in his hair over 20 years before it was cool.
They were really popular back then. I love how they made a comeback.
Oh my god you talk like you were born in 2005
E girls just fucking copy anime girls and ramona flowers...
They also copy other e girls
Chunky highlights have been popular since the 70s. Look up Gloria Steinem. 2020’s fashion is just nostalgia rebranded.
I wonder what it means for her that her palette is actually... pretty muted? The show could have given her bright yellow hair, like Tsuwabuki, but hers is pale. The only really bright yellows she wears, she wears when she is acting in that adoration of Touga: the dress at the dance, and her dueling uniform. Otherwise she's seen wearing her school uniform which is the same as every other female student, or her nightdress which is a desaturated purple that matches her eyes.
My guess would be that she only sees herself as an extension of her brother, and that she pales in comparison to him. When she dresses in bright colors, she's trying to be a bright and vibrant as he is.
As a lonely shitty child, I related to Nanami in a lot of ways. I loved her not being in the movie because, to me, she already left that academy at the end of the series as she was the only one to ditch her dual outfit. Her innocence was lost, but in its place, something new.
Or Anthy took the opportunity to turn a girl she didn't like into a cow.
I was so proud of her. Imo she was the first to realize & leave
Idk where I read this but someone once described the whole being in love with a sibling thing is childish misunderstanding of the connection that they have with their sibling. It’s the thought that “I care for this person more than anything, therefore it must be love.” I think nanami is a good example of that. She really thinks that her love is true and real but when coming face to face with a relationship mirroring what she believes she is disgusted. Seriously appreciate nanami thou, a very intriguing character
Mangaka do tend to love their Freud.
She also desperately craves the idealized unconditional love she associates with family and thinks the only way she can have that in a romantic relationship is if it’s with her brother
It's the perverse, sad, warped extreme of "let's get married when we're older!" that very little kids sometimes say, not realising what they're implying. Touga abusing that misunderstanding is horrific.
I believe Touga did love Nanami once upon a time, given in movie canon he grew his hair long and put up with the abuse in order to protect her, fooling himself into 'accepting' the abuse so that it wouldn't break him. But since then his perspective has been so warped by the adults around him into viewing *every* relationship as sexual that he can no longer relate to Nanami as he should, he can only see her as another tool. It's sad we never got to learn more about Touga because he is fascinating.
To me, the scene with the tea symbolises Nanami accepting herself and feeling secure enough not to desire Touga's attention every moment.
I used to feel like you did about the cat scene. Nanami was my favorite when I was younger, but the cat part was so bad I felt like it was hard to like her anymore. But then I rewatched the series as an adult, and I just ended up pitying her (and the cat, obviously.) Nanami isn't evil. She doesn't take any joy in hurting the cat, and it seems like she doesn't even realize the gravity of what she's doing until it's done. Once she puts the box in the river it seems like she doesn't realize that what she's done can't be undone until she sees the box go down the waterfall, and then it really sinks in for her. I think she regrets it deeply. She's a neglected child who lashed out at what she felt was causing her to lose what little love she was getting. It's not excusable and I still feel really upset when I see that part. I've cried my eyes out at that scene a few times. But I don't think it makes Nanami irredeemable either.
Yeah, it seems more like a child that doesn't exactly understand things, rather than a complete psycho.
@@Visplight I mean, she did think that laying eggs was part of the human reproductive cycle. She's pretty dense about consequences.
^^ THIS! Kids will do cruel things without realizing the consequences. All she wanted was for the kitten to stop being a barrier between her and her brother. She didn't realize until it was gone just what she had done.
Nope. Animal abusers are the devil. End of discussion.
@@webdrivertorso1362 I think most kids are animal abusers tho. They like pets but don't always have the best knowledge or even control to own them correctly. My cousin killed his first fish by over feeding it. Also maybe she thought the box would float like a boat and take the box away.
Nanami and characters like her are definitely the reason why the villainess genre exists, to try to give children like her the chance for a redemption and finding people who value and love them that they deserve. Considering she's only 13...like gosh poor kid.
Right? She kinda reminds me of azula (in a super broad strokes way) with how young they both are and how emotionally abused/traumatized they are, like, YIKES 😬
@@doctorwholover1012 yeah, theres also something to be said for a lot of these villainess characters (not azula or nanami tho lol) not actially doing anything wrong too. Tale as old as time where some of them may have just been bratty opposing girls to the main character/s.
Though we do see a lot of different takes on the jutifiably called a villainess, non justifiably and the "heavily abused child who is acting out bc her world is literally falling apart around her" characters. Its no wonder folks empathise when more often than not they've been so terribly hurt through no fault of their own and that spurred their start of darkness /bad behaviour/just not being a gd saint and smiling thru mistreatment .
Technically villainess mc is from the same original archetype nanami is based on.
Nanami being a cow all along wouldn't be the weirdest thing Ikuhara did, probably wouldn't even break the top 10.
**flashbacks of Utena turning into a sports car**
@@alanbareiro6806 That's rather tame too.
I remember watching some Knight Rider knockoff cartoon where the main character's power was turning into a car back in the 90s.
One of the characters from Magical Girl Raising Project can turn into inanimate object. While they never did turn into any vehicles, the option was there.
Then there are also Kamen Riders Accel and Lazer who can turn into bikes.
Anyway, the power to turn into vehicles isn't as out there as you might think, even if it is rather underused in media.
@@bingo784 Kunihiko Ikuhara has confirmed that he really likes David Lynch, who is also a weird writer.
@@orangeslash1667OH YEAH !!MULHOLLAND DRIVE AND UTENA SYNTHESIS WHEN
yeah because nanami representing a woman who was nothing but a literal sacrificial piece of meat to her brother being a real cow would be so thematically consistent. bsfr even david lynch & ikuhara have themes that the absurdity complements not overshadows
I found it easy to forgive Nanami for the whole
“In love with her big brother” thing, considering Nanami is a literal child, she doesn’t quite understand what true and mature love is yet. She dates Tsuwabuki, but consider what that means for the two of them. Do they engage in any actual romance? Nuh-uh. Nanami says jump, Tsuwabuki asks how high. It’s a very immature understanding of being a couple since Nanami wants to be lavished and Tsuwabuki wants to make sure that happens, otherwise neither will consider themselves a couple, they think that’s what’s supposed to happen when you have a boyfriend or girlfriend... Like two kids playing house. Nanami does get called out for using Tsuwabuki as a servant but she brushes it off, proclaiming jealousy over anything else, when Utena is right in scolding her for this unstable young love. It also is manufactured on Tsuwabuki’s end because does he want a girlfriend? Nope. He wants to be a big brother, a gentle and strong man who takes care of others. Being her boyfriend is irrelevant to that.
So how could I be mad? Nanami’s a girl dreaming of romance, hoping she can get to it as fast as she can, and the most exceptional person in her limited life is her brother.
The egg episode highly implies Nanami has hit puberty. She’s hiding an egg from everybody, it has a lot to do with having a baby, Touga’s advice on being attracted to the same gender he didn’t think he needed to talk to her about, ‘she’s angry for no reason idk?’, Tsuwabuki mentions she has a health class instead of gym, which is a change from usual.
Beyond this point, Nanami isn’t as childish and naive as we knew her earlier. She sees Touga’s way more of a narcissistic asshole than she previously knew. She thought he was perfect but the image is breaking. She used to wanna go back to doing childish things with him like bathing and sleeping beside each other, but now SHE’S the one to shut it down by saying they can’t do stuff like that anymore.
She’s absolutely DISGUSTED by Anithy and Akio, realizing the gravity of how intensely gross that dynamic is when it’s actually carried out seriously. She can’t stand to even be in the same room as the two of them.
The car scene. Just the car scene.
“What do you mean? Isn’t this what you always wanted?”
“No! This isn’t right!”
Nanami is really the character who grows the most throughout the story. Sure, she remains haughty and cruel all the way through, but she grows as a person and has an understanding of the world more now.
Why was Nanami a cow? I think it’s because she lost touch with that haughty childish part of herself and now exists out in the real world in the fields (adulthood) Nanami was able to leave Ohtori Academy and grow up in the new cycle after Utena freed Anithy
I see the cat scene as the point where Nanami needed to commit to her role as touga's little sister, she needs to prove she was justified in that murder. She is horrified by her actions and needs to commit, to prove her actions were worth it. To prove the cat died for a reason.
It's well known that Schrödinger's thought experiment with the cat happened so he could analyze Nanami's character without immediately writing her off.
Hmm, I thought it was in order for it to be used as a metaphor in Penguin Drum
17:45 I don’t know if anyone had mentioned this to you, but on Tsuwabuki’s and Touga’s cacti, there are flowers. Touga’s flower even blooms.
In Japanese flower language, cactus flowers represent desire and lust, so seeing Tsuwabuki carrying around a cactus just like Touga might be foreshadowing that if he continues the path he currently walks he’ll end up a fuckboi just like Touga.
It also makes sense because Tsuwabuki’s love for Nanami partly stems from the fact he wants to be a reliable older brother figure like how he perceives Touga
Nanami becoming a cow / her animal associations is definitely a complex topic in the anime, but I think I have a simple answer for it in the movie. To recap, here's what the scene consists of:
- The shadow players claim they have "a scandalous tape" to show us
- Nanami as a cow, with a focus on her drinking and breathing. Chu plugs one nostril.
- Goofy bit with her three stalker guys (now elephants).
- Nanami-cow stares-down Chu aggressively.
- Now Nanami's nostrils are both plugged by Chu and the weird red alligator.
- Nanami is unable to breathe, falls over, and passes out. (Or dies? It isn't clear.)
- The red alligator's beak extends and it grabs Chu, as if to eat him.
- Cut back to the shadow players, they tell us "oh that's the wrong tape" and swap to a new one.
- The real tape is about Akio, his loss of power, and mistreatment of Anthy.
I think the purpose of this scene is to answer fans asking "why isn't Nanami in this movie?" It's too soon for the real answer: "Touga is dead, so why 𝘸𝘰𝘶𝘭𝘥 she be?", and they don't want the audience catching on so soon, so they offer a lie to misdirect:
- Chu represents Anthy, the red alligator was originally seen doodled by Shiori.
- Nanami-cow's stare-down with Chu is a broad summary / parody of Nanami's previous rivalry with Anthy.
- Nanami never had any issue with Chu in the anime, so this makes it clear we should regard Nanami-cow, Chu, and the alligator as visual metaphors for their human counterparts.
- When Chu and the alligator plug Nanami-cow's nose and make her pass out, the writers are saying "Nanami isn't in this movie because Anthy and Shiori have split up her previous role / story responsibilities and there's no room for Nanami."
- When the alligator tries to eat Chu, the writers are saying "we're instead focusing on Shiori's attempts to defeat Anthy."
Further observations RE the "scandalous tapes" as a pair:
- When the shadow players say "that's the wrong tape", they're hinting that the first tape is a lie. Shiori 𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘴 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦 she's going to be an important antagonist but is ultimately ineffective compared to Anthy's trauma and ghosts of the past (IE the second tape).
- The first tape is essentially a misdirect on Touga. He's not mentioned, but really it's about him.
- The second tape being Akio, it's interesting to put him next to Touga like this because they're both dead.
WOAH I LOVE THIS
This is an absolutely brilliant and subtle interpretation and is exactly what I needed to help make sense of that bizarre scene!
Nanami being non existent in the manga vs being super developed in the anime totally reminds me of Cardcaptor Sakura and Me-Lin. In the manga she straight up never appears, she was added for the anime version to add another kid to the cast, and to have some drama between Sakura and Syaoran's developing relationship. Among a lot of other things, that is. Also the way Me-Lin is implemented in the story is pretty similiar as well, they both are basically the mean girl archetype who is on the losing end of a love triangle (Me-Lin isn't in love with her damn brother though! Plus Me-Lin is actually one of the most badass characters of the entire cast, in one episode she punches a piece of flying metal with her bare hands to protect her friends lmao)
I love Me-Lin as a kid. I know she's Sakura's rival and all and people pretend there's a tension between them. But honestly Sakura's relationship Me-Lin is simple, cute, effective friendship.
17:49 I was surprised when you said you had no idea what the cactus could mean when you just basically said it. The younger man is trying to copy the older one’s toxic behaviors to get what he wants, but he hasn’t quite mastered it yet. He’s on his way - you can see the pink/purple tuft of life growing out of the cactus - but it’s no where near the full bloom of the older brother. His tuft, symbolic of narcissism and using people, is not fully realized like that flower. However the thing he has failed to master is being manipulative and awful, something people don’t ultimately want to interact with all that willingly when they realize it’s in front of him. The flowers/leaves are growing out of a prickly, callously skinned cactus. Through this parallel both guys are entertaining an unpleasant way of being but only one of them has truly mastered it.
At least that’s my interpretation.
Utena is the only show I can think of where a character drowning a kitten actually made them more sympathetic
I think a really interesting point you kinda brushed up against is that, either by playing the role of a "witch" or just because of her own special characteristics, Nanami was the closest to the truth when she wasnt losing herself in devotion to Touga. Utena may have had the repressed thought that Akio was having sex(its rape, no uncertain terms about that) with Anthy, and Utena might have had the idea that the duels are a socially constructed falsehood, but only Nanami explicitly mentioned/broke through that miasma. She didnt shy away from the horrible things that were going on in the observatory room and she didnt let her "loss" in battles against Utena stop her from continuing to fight because she wasnt playing the role of a duelist and was pursuing an emotional goal untethered by the constricting conventions Akio created. While she wouldnt have caused the revolution for others, without Utena around she might have reached her own revolution and escaped before anyone else
That's why he's always my favorite character
I feel like not talking about the kitten and contributing it to her character takes away how far the "devotion" to her brother and the guilt she feels after the act.
I think the reason Nanami "isn't in the movie" could be one of three things:
1. If you think Anthy is in charge of the world in the movie, then it could be Anthy purposefully put left her as a cow as a from of punishment for how terribly she treated Anthy/ Utena in the main series.
2. If you think Akio is still in charge, then he might have gotten rid of Nanami because she had proven to be useless baggage that was getting the way of manipulating Touga/ Utena.
3. Nanami knows way too much about the truth about Anthy/ Akio, and somehow the cosmic reset couldn't wipe out that knowledge, so they had to put her into a form that doesn't talk to prevent her from ruining their plans.
Also, I remember hearing that Nanami's VA in Japan was famously hard to work with, so they purposefully reduced her role in the movie, and that might be the real world explanation.
...now that I think about it... if you met a talking cow that told your the principle at your school is the devil and your whole world is an illusion, that sounds like something out of 1,001 Nights.
Nanami really surprised me when she ended up being the first to acknowledge Akio for his true personality. She didn't doubt her interpretation or try to reason with what happened, she cut ties and hated him vehemently.
About the cat... she found it and adopted it into the family while she was young. The cat was small and dependent on her (not her specifically, but an older family member), and the cat was vulnerable in its position as the housepet. Touga and Nanami were adopted at a young age, Touga being the older of the two. He was a provider for her, as the adoptive parents didn't offer the emotional support she needed. She was vulnerable in her position as a younger sister to him.
Both perceived their relationships differently to how the older one would see it. To Touga, Nanami was a child who he could manipulate and use because she was young, and he had an established position of power over her. To Nanami, the cat was a distraction that she could easily dispose of.
This might also have something to do with the animal symbolism, as her agency tends to be limited like how an animal has little control over their circumstances when compared to their owner.
I've only watched the anime (I mean, I've watched it multiple times but still) and read the manga so I can't speak to the movie or the video game, but I always interpreted Nanami's adversarial relationship with animals to be an extension of Anthy's subtle retaliations against her. Anthy as a witch has her familiars, who she uses to undermine Nanami when the opportunity arises. This was actually one of my favorite parts of watching the anime for the second time. So much random nonsense in Nanami's episodes become recontextualized when you know that Anthy isn't a passive, blank slate and that she always had the power to make people suffer. She just did it in ways that couldn't be traced back to her. Like that bit about her passive aggressions against Akio's fiancé. Anthy knew she was hurting her, she just did it in ways she could plausibly deny.
I also thought it was karma for what she did to the cat
I’ve never been so early. I love Nanami so much. It’s taken me literally 20 years to appreciate her, but now I love her
The statue at 32:35 is bernini's hades and persephone. Turning into a cow is a very reminiscent of humans who have relationships with gods turning into animals
It's interesting I had an almost opposite experience to you with Nanami's character, her drowning a kitten was the first thing that made me more interested in her. Obviously I think animal cruelty is bad and I love cats irl, I would never harm one and never trust anyone who did. But, disclaimer aside, I found Nanami a funny but somewhat boring minor villain character but then when we get the reveal that she did something so incredibly fucked up as a child I suddenly perked up and was much more interested in her character.
That episode totally changed the perspective with the character, the same thing happened to me. And I love animals.
That’s kind of messed up.
@@webdrivertorso1362 I hate to be the one to break it to you but when a fictional character does something messed up it has no bearing on reality and only affects their own fictional world and so liking or not liking any element of any piece of fiction has zero moral or ethical bearing on reality. Maybe it is kinda messed up that Nanami's character became more interesting to me after I saw her commit animal cruelty as a response to deep emotions she didn't know how to deal with as a child, but maybe it's also kinda messed up that you decided you could tell me that on a random youtube comment knowing nothing about me especially when I'd already mentioned at length that I do not in any way approve of real life animal cruelty in an attempt to avoid bizaare puritans such as yourself.
I think Nanami's arc has strong ties with adolescence and puberty. The egg symbolism, the lack of knowledge of anything tied to reproduction, her outrage and uneasiness towards sex and (I'm reaching) cows being symbols of maternity, therefore maturity.
I think Nanami's infatuation with her brother is childish in nature. She idolizes him, blind to his problematic side. Her egocentrism is super childish as well. Graduating Ohtori Academy, an endless cycle, a play where everyone has their role, means growing independantly from the role you're supposed to play. Breaking her shell, for Nanami, would mean reaching adolescence. The ignorant, egocentric child that is infatuated with her brother and conflates that feeling with love becomes an adolescent, more conscious of the "adult dynamics" around her and the implications of a feeling as strong as love.
"I couldn't have taken Toga's bizarre red highlights, with the rest of his hair black."
Somewhere, boyinaband is crying to himself.
Damn, this comment is too relevant now in how the accusations with boyinaband was also manipulative to underage girls
I love Nanami, and I love this video & thank you for talking about her!!
I would like to add a reading of "The Cowbell of Happiness", along w your own, in which the episode is about Utena /through/ the lens of Nanami's hijinks. Like, what other character receives a piece of jewelry from a complete stranger and then values and cherishes it so highly they base their entire identity around it, even though they don't fully understand what it Means to Be that Thing, nor the consequences that come with it? It's a sly dig that Utena is completely clueless about what being a prince actually means & that she's in Way over her head. That message hides behind the "haha funny cow episode!" guise though.
what a good reading! the fact that nanami is jealous of juri in particular always stood out to me, but under your reading it would fit with juri’s role as prince in the movie... lots to think about :D
Holy crud the brilliant interpretations in this comment section just WON'T STOP?! I love this, my mind is getting blown again and again...
I didn’t know it was possible to misuse the term “filler” when talking about anime, but I guess I’ve been proven wrong.
Great video! Nanami and Wakaba are my top 2 favorite characters!
Nanami is always so interesting to me in that, there are people who truly despise her after it all, for her killing of the cat. And often these same people have room in their heart for Touga and Saionji, despite their actions to me reading as far more worse.
Of course, I think every single character is really complicated, that’s the amazing thing about Revolutionary Girl Utena. Everyone is a real person, real damaged people.
I wonder how much of that is due to the fact the cat is such a beloved animal, or the fact that girls are just always more hated in fandom.
Perhaps a combination.
Reminds me how there are people who love Ruka but talk about how horrid Shiori is, despite the fact that love triangle is such a pointed one, where all of them are awful in some way or another.
I like Nanami and find her oddly relatable despite her being a bully. In this weird surrealistic series, she feels human with her flaws and perks. The episode with the kitten made me cry, not only for the innocent cat but also for Nanami, who is a deeply troubled child manipulated by her brother, so knowing her backstory I felt really bad after watching the episode but couldn't bring myself to hate Nanami either. I mean her obsession with her brother is sick but we can see Nanami bawling after doing the horrible thing. Well, pretty much all sibling relationships in the anime are pretty twisted to say the least.
Wow, great analysis! Nanami was also one of my faves. Her taunting of Anthy was really baiting a bear, huh. I also appreciated her horrified reaction to Akio and Anthy. My skin was crawling away from my body at that point and it felt truly cathartic.
I also interpreted her bad luck or close proximity to animals as being a kind of Justice for what she did as a kid.
That and Anthy hates her and wants her to suffer.
A bit late to this video... but hey, I just watched Utena with friends, I am completely obsessed with it, and my world is changed greatly by this show! And by Nanami, to an extent.
Tl;dr. I choose to believe Nanami jumped back in that river to save that cat.
I love cats-- I can't fathom anything bad happening to my cats, let alone fictional cats. They're my favourite pets and I'd do anything for them.
...But I understand why that young child that was Nanami did what she did. And it's nothing but obvious how she regretted it the very second she put that in motion. I kind of loathe and love how the anime portrays that scene-- bouncing back and forth between the young child who is both in full control and out of her own body in that sequence, watching the action she did irreversibly ruin that cat's life-- and wishing she could take it back the very second she sees that box tilt over the waters.
It's obvious it's meant to parallel how reliant she was on Touga, and how later on, he would start manipulating and messing with her in ways that nearly ruined her.
But she came out on top. She came out on top of everything. To the point she isn't in the movie... because she's graduated. She's grown up and become independent-- and dissapeared entirely as a result. ...You can also think that Anthy didn't include her in the new school, as she famously despised Nanami for these very reasons and more... which I find personally extremely amusing and funny...
...But back to that young kitten... notice how Nanami, against all odds, sees through Akio quickly, separates herself from all the drama and loathes everyone-- as she sees everything for what it is. She escapes her fate and her issues and grows to the point of maturing and leaving Ohtori.
...I like to think she saved that cat. In an odd parallel to her own escape and growth as a person in the future-- little child Nanami managed to jump into the waters and rescue that cat before it was too late. I will admit that it's farfetched to think she did do that, and that everything would be fine afterwards... but we never see what happens after young Nanami runs back in despair after the box. And it'd kind of parallel the whole lake story with Touga in the weirdest of ways... which I think is both funny and rather touching. I do think it's coping and an extremely generous reading of the situation... but as you said-- it's never addressed in full after that episode-- and the role of the cat in Nanami's story is to parallel her and show her current situation and her future growth... so I like to think just like her, that cat found a happy ending, even if we don't get to see it. I don't know what she'd end up doing with it after that? Maybe give it away, since in the present of the show she still has terrible animal luck. Regardless, I like to think it's out there, living it's own life. Have fun, kitty... good luck, Nanami!
Maybe the cow thing is more symbolic- nanami being like cattle to toga
cows can also be a symbol of survival in chinese culture- idk if that could have anything to do with it tho but its interesting
Lol Nanami isnt in the film cuz Anthy is in the control and Anthy Hates her
Oh noooo
I prefer thinking that nanami just left the school between the show and the movie x)
Hahaha that's a great explanation though I love that so much
That would explain why she's acow
I really enjoyed this deep dive into Namami! I find sibling complex characters annoying, but I like that Nanami, at least, has some degree of complexity and I can appreciate how her complex isn't just a "quirk" to make her a shallow obstacle to their sibling and rival getting together, but clearly linked to something deeply psychological and it's a part of her character that she has to contend with and grow past.
Also, I just want to say, thank you for saying that "if you're raised as siblings, you are siblings." For me, inc*st is 2 fold; it's the pitfalls of mingling similar DNA and the perversion of familial bonds/relationships. There's way too much Japanese media really hooked on the idea of it being okay for family love (especially that of siblings) to morph into sexual and romantic feelings. They treat the taboo like something really tantalizing and then go "No blood, no foul!" as if DNA is the only reason why inc*st is taboo. Bleh! What an incredible oversimplification.
I don't feel like it's right to ignore the part of her backstory where she murders a cat. It shows just how obsessive she was with her brother, she also showed regret afterwards. I also dislike the theory that she was an actual cow cause I feel like it dehumanizes her. Someone once said to me that the reason she is compared to domestic animals so often is because that's how she felt like when she was with her brother. She felt like Touga was the one who raised her, but would eventually be the one to kill her and devour her
YES
MORE UTENA CONTENT IN 2020
HELL YEAH
If I had to put an answer to why Nanami is a cow in the movie... I would probably lean somewhere towards how Anthy always saw Nanami as an animal. She named animals after Nanami and tricked her into thinking she laid an egg among other things.
With Anthy taking more control over the world that could be what Nanami is relegated to.
It's also notable that the cow scene is seemingly not in captivity of any kind and Chuchu is also there. This scandalous tape could be of the outside world. It could be Nanami's freedom from the confusing world of adolescent humans. Then again she doesn't seem too happy so maybe Anthy is just playing with her again.
I like the "nanami is actually a cow the whole time" theory because it seems like something they would do, but also I think her animal associations are about her innocence and ignorance. Animals are devoted to a fault, ignorant of morality and sin alike, not really understanding things like sexuality like how humans do. She is in that way "pure" without being enviable. But this is Utena with very few right or wrong answers in analysis
Amusingly, I think you accidentally linked the point of the Touga and Tsuwabuki carrying a cactus.
Tsuwabuki admits to basically learning abusive tactics of 'love' from Touga. Quite literally, his form of 'love' has the same thorns as Touga's, from a slightly different angle.
This video has honestly given me so much better of an understanding of Nanami. I always found her interesting (there's something really uncomfortable in seeing Nanami kind of... dragged into this adult world of abuse and sex she never actually wanted to be in), but you analyse the symbolism used with her so well!! I get her character arc much more, and I'm actually really exited to rewatch the series with that you've said in mind :) . Also, Love the bit on colour theory SO MUCH. I'm definitely going to start thinking about that more with scenes. I also really want to unravel why those roses appear in the corner of the scene/ to censor certain things sometimes.
Anyway, love this so, So much, and pls do more utena analysis (if you want, you've already dedicated a lot of time to it with this and your other video! I'm sticking around regardless :)
Worth mentioning as a mental health professional - you actually cannot diagnose underage people as "sociopathic" (that terms has a lot of baggage that I'm not even going to get into here), or even read into things like harming animals. Children often haven't had the empathy parts of their brains develop yet, and that development can happen basically at any point until a person has finished puberty (around 25-27, much later than most folks realize). It's not until someone has passed that point where they will be unable to develop in a healthy way that any kind of diagnosis is even possible.
There are many, many kids who harm animals and then later develop in "normal" ways with regards to empathy. This is especially true for abused or neglected children who often find certain parts of their development delayed until the later part of puberty. A child harming animals has very little indication that they will end up with any kind of sociopathy, psychopathy, or narcicissm (despite what lots of media would lead folks to believe), but it is actually a really good sign that folks should investigate abuse or neglect going on in a child's life.
I know it's been a year, but by any chance if you are capable to answer my question. Why is antisocial personality disorder being considered a personality and developmental disorder? it just from my average joe standpoint but by information available to me it seems like "sociopathic" tendencies can be considered as aform of neurodivergence? Or i m completely misunderstand categorization?
@@tslex6477 it sounds like you are probably relying on the more "general population understanding" of the term and how it is applied to people. Developmental Disorders are a collection of disorders that feature some disruption in the development of a person. While sometimes the disruption can be from biological factors, the diagnosis itself doesn't separate based on the cause of the disruption, just on if a disruption has happened or not. And a very common misinterpretation on top of this is that antisocial personality disorder implies that the person will be antisocial in the common usage of the word. Clinically, the term is referring to the difficulty the person will face in establishing connections with others and does not imply that they are unable to make these connections (just that it's more difficult for them to do), or that they won't be able to enjoy or function socially in many aspects that don't involve close connections. Antisocial does not mean introverted or bad at social skills in this context.
Neurodivergence meanwhile is a catch-all term that can be used in a lot of different ways. It's not completely inappropriate to apply the term to include people with antisocial personality disorders, but doing so does not invalidate other categories. Remember that neurodivergence is largely a social term for self-identification rather than a diagnostic term.
So to answer your question, it's not an either/or between terms like this. But I would similarly suggest that chances are that there are people without actual antisocial personality disorders who you are thinking of when talking about the term here. It's very common for lay people to call autistic folks antisocial or say they have a personality disorder despite this not being the case. And given the way you've phrased the question, I'd guess there's a good chance there's some confusion for you in that realm.
@@tahlialysse I did not perceived antisocial personality disorder in the general meaning of the word antisocial. I asked this question because as it was said by you in first half of this explanation. Developmental disorders defined by disruption in person's development due to various reasons and lack of empathy fits as such disruption of abillity to make personal connections in my understanding. I know that people with this disorder are not incapable of such connections even so they struggle with that. I have confusion not with perception of people but with what are, terminology wise makes antisocial personality disorder a personality disorder. As you said, it's not either/or it can be seen as developmental and personality disorder technically, but if i were to make my question more understandable. What defines personality disorder and differentiate it from terms that would be considered similar as mental illness, and how it's applies to specifically antisocial personality disorder. I am sorry if it's hard to understand my question
@@tslex6477 I mean if all you want to know are the definitions of the terms as they apply to diagnostics, look up the DSM 5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) and it will list out what the current standards are.
If you are asking something else, it is very unclear to me what you are asking.
Your points about Tsuwabuki and that relationship demonstrating the cycle of abuse really hit the nail on the head. Thanks so much for another awesome Utena video!
Great video analysis! I love Nanami as a character. I really do think that to better understand Anthy you need to pay attention to Nanami. It's a shame that Anthy hates her so much because they really are so similar. The fact that Anthy treats her with malice rather than sympathy goes to show just how similar they are I think.
I once read a series of reviews of RGU on Tumblr that pose a theory on Touga's treatment of Nanami. This applies the theory that Touga's sexual abuse by his foster family carries over into the show. Essentially, he resents Nanami for her naivete and ignorance of the abuse he suffered. He thinks that she lives a privileged life while he was essentially a sex slave - and yeah, she has. He thinks that Nanami does not truly love him, but is just one more in a long line of people who just want to use him and that the person she loves is nothing more than an illusion - and in a way, he's right. So he lashes out at her. He uses her the way he thinks she's using him. He's punishing her for her innocence. In a lot of ways, his relationship with Nanami mirrors Utena's relationship with Anthy.
Her battle being ‘Adoration’ I think also applies to the automatic attention/adoration she gets by being Touga’s sister. Once she loses that, her lackies abandon or outright express their disgust for her.
I remember reading something interesting on TV Tropes relating to the cowbell episode: the episode draws parallels between Nanami's cowbell and Utena's boy's uniform, and how that affects others' perception of them. Just another similarity that she and Utena both share.
I also remember reading a while ago a RUclips comment saying that Nanami may also carry some internalized misogyny and that her familial connection to Touga, in her eyes, confirmed that she was "not like other girls." When this familial connection is broken, she worries that she may be like the other girls after all. I think it's an interesting interpretation that adds a little bit to Nanami's character.
FINALLY someone else who was effected my the cat scene so much
Ha! A very good video.
I've always loved Nanami for how much she feels like an extra to a story that doesn't want to be about her at all. Forcing herself into the conversation of these other people playing at being adults... it's like she's failing at even pretending to adult - two steps removed from the real thing. Even when she's important to the plot after taking Touga's position, she still feels so artificial. Heck there's even an argument that you could cut her from the series entirely and still have a whole story (which, ya they did in Adolescence).
I think in spite of all that I love her because she doesn't need to be tightly integral to the core narrative. She can just be another lost soul searching for meaning in the world and, as you said, ending up better than where she started.
Keep up the great work on the channel, you're doing a fantastic job.
Ok, you really like the *Nanami being a cow* in the movie theory, and that’s cool, personally I don’t think she’s a literal cow. They show her being a cow in a tape, along with her (as a cow) and choo choo, there’s also those 3 nerd guys as animals in that tape too. Later in the movie while they’re driving to leave the school you can briefly see those same 3 nerd guys holding signs, but they’re human. Which makes me think that Nanami is truly a human as well.
If you get any child (and ESPECCIALLY an emotionally neglected child) and give them an animal, they will not know how to care for them, and eventually cause animal abuse and death. This is true for all pets and is equally tragic in all cases (cats are not somehow more special than say pigs no matter how adorable and lovable they are).
It may be hard to see this, but I actually think this is a good depiction of childhood. People need to understand that children cannot just care for animals by themselves and do not understand care, life or death at that young of an age until something tragic happens or with good guidance. I love cats too, but when I saw Nanami do what she did, I wasn't upset at her character because ultimately I know if I were a child in that situation, I too would not understand that an animal would actually die from that until it was too late.
Of course you can just write her off as a psychopath and ignore her existence (despite everything pointing against that), but I always try to sympathise with the child because their bad actions as a child is oftentimes due to circumstance and parenting. In the case of Nanami, this is most obvious, and her drowning the cat was not something that should be pinned entirely (or even mostly) on her.
That said, I totally understand wanting to block that part of the show out. For me, I had to pretend the cast is like 14-18 instead, not because it would make Akio less of a pedo (he's a rapey ass pedo no matter what), but because these kids are way too mature to be as young as they are. That and Kozue is... Just way too much to be under 16.
OMG i loved your interpretation about the theory of color, and how nanami and anthy are opposites because yellow and purple, it's the first time that i noticed it! and yes, that makes a lot of sense. it's interesting how nanami is the one who gets actions and reactions from the "real anthy", who's usually dead inside.
Thank you so much for shouting out Empty Movement! They have been an incredible fount of info regarding Utena. ♥
I absolutely love Utena analysis videos because I always learn more perspectives and interpretations of the work, and this was so enjoyable as well. Love your videos!~ ♥
So i have two theories about nanamis fate in revolutionary girl utena and to condense them its basically that nanami only ever had her own identity that wasn't connected to touga or utena or anyone really was when she was a cow. She was no longer a stock archetype character or an accessory to other characters, as a cow nanami was free to live life on her own terms and was identified better as her own individual when she was a cow so my theory is that she achieved self actualization and left Ohtori academy with a cow taking her place due to it being the most memorable thing about her that didn't rely on other people's existence. My other theory is that she rejected Ohtori and simply became a cow similar to how Candace from Phineas and Ferb rejected modern society and lived with monkeys. I do have a third theory that Nanami achieved self actualization and as such became a cow as her enlightened form kind of like reincarnation having you become something new in your next life. Idk Revolutionary girl utena is a great show and is just so psychedelic and engaging so these are just some ideas i had.
Ah Nanami, the queen of filler episodes. This bish killed a cat so she will never get to my good side ever. lol.
BUT she grew on me as a character the more they gave her backstory. Even her filler episodes despite being weird and funny, has shown a glimpse of why she acts the way she does. She's also a victim of manipulation and betrayed by her own "brother." Towards the end of the show, my hate turned to empathy and developed a deeper understanding and appreciation to her character.
This was such a pleasure. Utena content is so sparce, and this is so heartfelt and well thought out. I would watch basically any Utena analysis and theories that you felt like creating ⚔🌹
I’m just going to shill “The Palace Perspective” series of writings/examinings found on tumblr for its very nuanced and interesting take on nanami and ohtoris mythology as a whole, definitely something worth looking into
Haven't even watched the video yet, but when you said in your AMAZING analysis of Revolutionary Girl Utena (like seriously it's one of the best analysis I've ever come across. You opened my eyes to so many other veiws of the series, especially with the theory on the movie. Your theory of the movie being a sequel has changed my whole perspective and sparked me into rewatching the series again.) Ok, I'm just going to watch the video because Nanami is one of favorite characters, and I can't wait to hear your take on her.
Edit:
Ok, I just finished watching and I just have to say that I love your artwork. Your visuals add so much to your words. I don't mind you not taking what happened with the cat into consideration because there is literallly so many other things about Nanami to analyze. Thanks, for the amazing video.
I remember hearing that in an interview that the reason Nanami is only a cow in the movie was "to anger Nanami fans"
One aspect I consider important to point out about Nanami and her cow association is the song choosen for her cow moments. The song is called "Dona Dona", and was originally written in Ydiddish by Sholom Secunda and Aaron Zeitlin in 1941. This song written by PolishJewish musicians in the early 1940s about a calf being dragged to slaughter while the word reacts indifferently clearly reflects the treatment and bleakness for Jewish people during that time.
As the entire show is incredibly thought through, I highly doubt that the creators choose the song on a whim because it fits to a cow-theme but rather the reverse: Dona Dona was choosen first, then Nanami was given a calf to slaughter motive.
I would also support my idea by the fact that in her cow nightmare Nanami killed and made into a steak for Touga's consumption. Of course the metaphor is more that Nananami gets groomed to later become a helpless victim of Touga's, the association of consumption of flesh probably ties to Touga's general treatment of girls and maybe even to the danger that he would hurt Nanami exactly in the way that Akio hurts Anthy.
Anthy, getting two full weeks away from Akio as Utena: i will literally do this forever if I'm allowed yes go to India Nanami and wait another thousand years.
For the cow theory: i believe that the cow video, as clearandsweet said, was Anthy trying to distract Utena with a joke from talking to her. While Nanami's cow symbolism is linked to how she WAS with Touga under Akio: a cow to slaughter. Now, disappeared from Ohtori, she's free to be her own person as an adult. At least that is what I think.
Last note: it also means she accepted Touga's death....and moved on.
@@anonymousyoutuber1405 She could finally be herself!
I just have to put something here quickly, the correct order for the episodes 6 through 8 are 8,7,6 because the eight episode wasn't finished on time. That's why it doesn't make sense that we see the diary in the curry trip being burned and on take care miss Naming it appears again.
I think, that Nanami turned into a cow in Adolescence because in episode 38 she took off her ring, and said, that she don't wants anymore to be a "duelist", and she wants to forget about all of this.
But the stage is set again, and everyone needs to choose yourself a role, and, the only role that was left for Nanami - is a cow.
She is still somewhere in the academy, as a cow, waiting for the end, without having any worry.
Nanami is just a child, her episodes are best indication of it, thus, I remind myself everytime i rewatching Utena - it isn't she, who act abnormal, it's everybody else - it's they trying to "act", it's they can't say their true feelings.
Or Himemiya just rekt her because she is hate her, and she is now in charge, not Akio, idk
I watched this video a few days ago but I just wanted to come back to say im STILL thinking about it. like wow. I loved Nanami but her arc and "purpose" in the show was a lil confusing, and your analysis was BEAUTIFUL AND WELL WRITTEN THANK YOUUU
Thank you. What a great addition to the discussion of Utena in the year 2020. We see how much relevance this great anime still has.
i LOVED this video, nanami is one of my favorite utena characters and you absolutely did her justice here.
i think you made a Great point about nanami's reaction with the drowned boy story because that's just. So much of nanami's character and desires, what she wants versus what she actually is given.
(warning i Am going to touch on the cat scene though not directly mentioning it or going in depth)
as a child, nanami wanted her brother's attention back and didn't Really think about the implications of what that meant. as a young teenager, she wanted a relationship with touga but as the series goes on the only """relationship""" he offers is one she definitely doesn't want. and she wants to hear how juri's story ends, but can't really handle the actual ending.
her parents treatment of her aside, nanami grew up being able to get what she wanted because she has the wealth to get the results without thinking about what it takes to get them. but as she grew up and was abandoned further by her underlings and brother and had to do things by herself, she began to see what it takes to get what she wants and she can't handle it.
the nanami of the last episode could not do what her younger self did, because she, at age 13, has experienced her safety and innocence being taken from her and is now painfully aware of what consequences are to be had for her actions.
There was an Utena 20th anniversary manga released some time ago and while a manga is apparently canon to the anime.
I do not recall if Nanami is mentioned but it does show the other student coubcil membets fates and i clearly rememver Juri and Shiori's and while they are together Shioro is a toxic and manipulative user of Juri abd after being haunted by Ruka's ghost and getting hit with visuals from the movie breaks up with Shiori and fires ger as her manager, while this video was about Nanami that last bit at the end about the ending being uolifting with their counteroarts sadly did not come true, apparently the only good ending for Juri came from Ruka and Utena's ghosts inspiring her to cut Shiori out of her life.
You know, what makes the kitten episode even more heart-wrenching is that the animals in this anime are really realistically drawn. They are not cartoonish like the animals in, say, the 90s' Sailor Moon. It's weird. I don't really feel that violated from fictional violence against humans or even children (unless there is real sadism involved or the person hurt is written as a close family member etc.) but I really feel bad from abuse and violence against animals even if it's fictional. That's why I felt a pang at 7:30 because I remembered Nanami's horrible deed even if the scene I time-stamped with Touga kissing Nanami with the kitten in the background would be otherwise adorable.
The Cat Thing: that moment was a signal that the show was going to be taken seriously. It was a loss of innocence. Both for Nanami, because I think she became aware of death and consequence in that moment, but also loss of innocence for the audience. Her feelings CAN'T be a light joke after that. We see how twisted her need to be first in her brother's life really is, how low she was willing to go. How much she fears abandonment. We know that it's not something that could be solved with a simple crush on another guy, that it would have to be a life-changing paradigm shift for her to change. The stakes of Nanami's feelings are life and death for her.
It seems impossible that she could be different : after you do something that terrible, how could you dare to change?
On the other side of it, poor Touga. The drowning parallel! He lost his chance at uncomplicated love and comfort, at least in this cycle. The kitten was simple, it wouldn't turn against him or use him and it would never have been a pawn for his own games. He might have been able to be a kinder person.
Nanami was so obsessed to be first she couldn't let anything come between them, not even a gift SHE gave, not even something her brother loved. Iirc it was ambiguous whether Touga ever found out? I think this is the moment the fall started: Touga grew apart from her and began to stop loving honestly. Whether from one more heartbreak too many or because on some level he knew. Even Nanami's adoration came with sacrifice.
(I think there's a way to tie this back into Anthy and Akio...when we love someone, when we feel guilty, we demand sacrifices from them in turn. When love twists into obsession, it's selfish and we take back everything we gave and more. It's the mundane, heartwrenching example of the same forces behind Anthy and Akio's eternal revolution)
I'm really happy I found you. This was very well written and put together.
Now get to Princess Tutu!
I somehow found your video whilst looking up Utena subjects at random. I really loved this video. The thing I love about all itinerations of Utena are that they're so layered & complex & also play off one another that there's always something to learn & find anew. I have to say that you definitely made me aware of some things that I had either not thought myself or read / researched. I actually really like the idea that Nanami isn't in the movie because she has escaped the cycle of Ohtori. & while I don't at all think she's an actual cow, I do think that more quixotic viewpoint was entertaining to watch & listen to.
Anyway, I look forward to watching more of your videos!
Every time I see Nanami in her duelist outfit all I can think of is the Bride from Kill Bill
Now having finally seen this show - it's apparently been free on youtube all this time - can I pose a possible alternative interpretation for the why of Nanami?
I think part of why Nanami undergoes such wild changes in characters isn't just because of the clothes, but because she has no personal defined sense of self. She has completely allowed herself to be defined by others without ever thinking about who she really is. So, she becomes whatever anyone expects of her. The incest undertones she has early on? It's because people can only see that as the explanation for her behavior, so she conforms to it. She puts on the duelist outfit and becomes a good swordsman, because you wouldn't expect her to challenge Utena without being good at sword fighting and doing it for her brother is . . . well, I don't think your interpretation about her defining herself by her brother is necessarily wrong, but I also kind of think that she's only able to compete on any level because that expectation comes with the situation. When she takes over for her brother on the council, with no character evolution at all, she suddenly becomes a more serious character, because that's the expectation people have for that position. She puts on a cowbell, she becomes a cow because only cows wear cowbells.
I think part of the symbolism here is that Nanami doesn't know who she is, so she is completely defined by what people expect of her and that shifts according to the situation she puts herself in. It's only after the adoption reveal that she loses that part of her identity and has to become her own character. If she didn't do so, she probably would have just disappeared from the story entirely. She had no other option if she wanted to keep existing.
Or maybe not, I dunno. This show is weird.
>.>
And I kinda love it.
Nanami is often the highlight in the filler episodes.
From Nanami getting a taste of Karma when she tried to travel to India to get the spice to get Utena and Anthy back to normal.
To Nanami wanting a Cowbell to be ahead of fashion only to turn into a Cow because of her vanity.
And Nanami wondering if laying an egg is considered normal but she is too embarrassed to be outed as a weird person considering back in season 1 episode 4 Nanami is often trying to sabotage Anthy's friendship with Utena when she tries 3 seperate occasions to out Anthy as a weirdo who keeps a snail/snake/octopus in her room.
RE RE RE WATCHING this video in section about theater.
The way the characters have specific outfits giving them a specific role. Join to the theory of the soft reboot.
It makes me think of comedia Commedia dell'arte.
Played with masks each having their specific role and personality recognizable by their mask, no matter who plays the role, all the stories that exist but are basically all the same format.
It's like a theater played played each night with slight variation
Great video, love the analysis of Nanami. My own headcanon for Cow Nanami being in the movie, I think it's a choice of her own in this loop. Cows tend to represent a state of contentment, and she's chosen peace over dealing with this loop, and Toga. She hasnt grown past him, which is why she's still there, but she's on the path to.
Edit: WHY DID I JUST NOW REALIZE THIS IS A 2 YEAR OLD VIDEO 😬 Still a great video, but wishing I had watched it sooner 😂
your analysis continues to be so well thought out and enjoyable! i am going to watch out for the cactus in my rewatch-the yellow flower blooming is pretty obvious nanami symbolism, but i don’t know about the pink on tsuwabuki’s...
it struck me when you talked about nanami losing touga that it’s a precursor to utena losing the man /she/ built her identity around, dios, and having to rebuild herself in the final moments of the anime/into the movie.
nanami is such a great character-the comic relief having shared attributes and story beats with both anthy and utena? so powerful. thanks for talking about her!
(also: i would buy utena stickers if you made them!)
It's ok. I feel the same way about characters harming animals. Cats especially (I have two). It really ruins things for me. It's hurting something that registers as pure and childlike. Dependent and/or trusting of you. So it's sick to think about.
Slightly different interpretation, especially if you find the drowned cat traumatizing:
Nanami introduced a girl (the 'kitten' being a creative representation, or possibly even a traumatic repression or lie she told people later) to her (possibly adopted?) Brother Touga. He showed interest in her, (platonicly or otherwise). Nanami gets jealous and confronts them, and the argument ends with Nanami pushing the girl (probably the one telling the story about a 'drowned sister', since as a ghost she wont remember *herself* drowning) into the river. Touga freaks out and tries to save her from drowning, but the waters to strong so they *both* drown. Nanami, deeply traumatized from basically causing double homicide, misdirects her self loathing on the girl, blaming her for because 'if she had never gotten Touga's attention, none of this would have ever happened.'
I love your channel and video essays, but I'm really out here saying "I thought so too!" out loud and getting embarrassed lol. This show was such an eye-opener for me! I remember being really focused on being the cool prince. Then I watched Utena. It was an average show for me for the pilot, but I stayed for the aesthetics. I watched the entire series in 2 weeks. By tearing down the archetypes that I often imitated to being mad at myself for not being the perfect ideal I was reaching for, I saw myself in the characters, and I saw how destructive I would be to myself and the people around me. It's a show that confused me, helped me, and made me genuinely interested in the deeper themes.
I really appreciate the work you all put into this. I've always suppressed dissecting and using indirect messages because I had disliked the chance to express my feelings openly. After all, it was bad for the aforementioned image. Now whenever I watch people like you have invested conversations and essays about this show which has immensely impacted me and has done the same for them, I get a tad emotional.
In summary, Utena is important to me, Utena is important to you, I like having people talk about it in depth because it makes me warm inside.
i took the cat scene as showing how far tougas manipulation of nanami can go. he uses her to hurt others often; like the opposite of a save the cat moment.
I NEED a princess tutu video from you, i love your content!!
Well, well, well...
I realize I'm late to this discussion, but I figured I'd give my read on Touga, particularly in how it relates to my background as a (burned out) Social Worker who's... seen some unfortunate shit. Incoming wall of spaces to save those who do not wish to deal with talk of child abuse, particularly of the sexual kind.
So, Touga. I feel like even within just the anime it's fairly clear that Touga is a victim perpetuating a cycle of abuse, and I feel like there's an aspect of that cycle that often times gets overlooked. While not always a factor, there's a non insignificant percentage of victims of abuse (particularly when that abuse happens young) to sort of shape all their interactions of a certain type. In Touga's case, it's fairly evident that he was sexually abused, by Akio at the very least, probably alongside Saionji. This only gets reinforced if we take Adolesence into account as additional material that was withheld in the show. With that in mind, it would not be out of the realm of possibility that Touga genuinely does care for Nanami - or at least has convinced himself of such things - but not have any real experience or socialization to contextualize those feelings outside of the abuse. I hadn't really given that angle too much consideration in the context of just the show because when Akio entered the scene, Touga was ostensibly 17, and would've had better socialization, etc. However, with the context of the movie placing the start of that abuse MUCH younger, it's absolutely believable that he simply doesn't know of any other way to interact with Nanami other than flirting with her, especially if Akio is encouraging such behavior behind the scenes.
Also, with the idea that Touga was actually dead all along in the show and just... forgot he died, the distance used in the framing of Nanami and Touga could be indicative of that. Her brother was close but got distant all of a sudden... when he died. Heck there's an argument to be made then that Touga is also playing a role to Nanami as well, seeing how she idolizes him, he aspires to be the kind of person she thinks of him as, and the only person that even remotely fits that "idealized" vision of success, wealth, power, etc. is... Akio, leaving Touga to emulate his own abuser, normalizing Akio's abuse and internalizing. Convincing himself that it's "normal," creating a sort of feedback loop into the overtly flirting he does with Nanami. Ultimately making him a ghost trying to be the Machiavellian prince he aspires to be, with no way to accomplish it that he can see other than emulating Akio.
not even done with the video yet and i’m already obsessed with your analysis. i’m glad someone overthinks as much as me, your video is very well done👏🏼👏🏼
In Hindu culture, the cow is revered as an avatar of innocence. I would not discount that as a possible view Anthy has of Nanami. Innocence incarnate. And it’s why Anthy views her this way in the movie.
In the movie, Touga seems to be nicer. I’m convinced being dead made him a better person
i think that conversation about the drowned boy is very enlightening as to what was going on in nanami's head all those years ago with her brother's cat. She's the youngest and death isn't as real to her yet, and even at her big ass age she genuinely thought there was hope that the drowned boy would be fine. I don't think this means she doesn't know what she was doing (after the box goes over the cliff her expression of realization is so sad) but i do think her tunnel vision saw it solely as "get rid of it, make it go away" to "protect" her relationship w touga. i think she felt awful abt it enough to delude herself into thinking the cat (and a little bit, her relationship w her brother) could still be ok, and then that notion was shattered. idk i have only witnessed this series in passing n i had to dip in as a sapphic english major :)
I like this video essay as a lot, though I slightly disagree on your interpretation of the cat scene. I think that while the story is hugely symbolic, the drowning was a very grounded scene. I think she did kill that cat, and I think she's still sympathetic. I love animals a lot, I'm dedicating my life to their study (wildlife biologist), but no act you do (especially as a child) is unforgivable. Anthy helping to groom Utena and her being forgiven is a huge example of this. Additionally, even if she is a psychopath, she is still deserving of understanding and care. She's a thirteen year old girl trying to find her place in the world, even if how she does it is wrong. She felt intense guilt afterwards judging by the crying and running away, similar to how she reacts after discovering Anthy and Akio. She turns these negative emotions into anger, and doubles down, but in the end she grows and learns to be a better person and less dependent on her brother.
Your Utena videos are a ray a sunshine in my life. I hope you do more!
i'm glad that you prompted people to watch the nanami episodes for the tonal shift, it was so helpful to have some levity in between the existentialism
your vids bring me so much joy they are just so comfy
Nanami is my favorite character in the show 😌 thank you so much
I know I'm kinda late but I actually gasped when I saw this pop up in my recommendations. I loved your first video on this series and I'm so excited to see your views on one of my favourite characters.
this was such a great video x) in addition to being young and stupid (or maybe explaining why), I've always considered Utena and Nanami to be the only characters in the show that really Feel like they could actually BE middle schoolers, Nanami especially. In a world where so much is metaphorical and symbolic, Nanami feels like a foil to the rest of the cast by being a more realistic or classic depiction of a young teenager at school who is then thrust into and visibly traumatized by the awful truth of the situation (Utena and everyone else too but Nanami's age feels the most Real to me)
I think you are adorable, and I hope you get the traffic that you deserve. I haven’t watched all of the episode to this series, but I love how you explained her character. I really thought she was just going to be comic relief, but after watching this I now have a soft spot for her. she’s weirdly relatable... in her own.. weird way haha
I agree that the ending is a lot more hopeful than it seems at first viewing; anthy basically confirms that there is a lot more change happening than on the surface. There used to be--idk if it's still going on, the guys doing it haven't added to the series in a while--an episode by episode utena analysis that posited the Nanami episodes were like miniatures of the series as a whole. Aaaand I do need to watch princess tutu don't I.
Weirdly I clicked on this video 5 minutes after it was uploaded because I found your animations, cheers to being in the right place at the right time