Ok guys im only going to explain this one more time as I keep getting the same comments. So please do not be upset if I do not reply to your comment. This is not an ashimmu fitting guide. This is not an optimal way to fit an ashimmu. Kiting in an ashimmu is not the only way to fit an ashimmu. Now we know what it isn't. Let me tell you what this video is. It is a basic representation of a brawling style fit of both armor and shield. This is supposed to be as close as possible in the most basic way possible. To show in the most basic terms how bad armor and shield balancing really is. I hope you read this message before posting another this armor ashimmu is shit you should fit it like this. It's not needed. We all know how to fit an ashimmu to range kite until their cap is gone. That's not the purpose of this video. Thanks.
"Why do you use shields on armor tank you noob?" A question ive heard over thousand times. There were minor changes to combat scenarios i would make, but all in all a great demonstration of how actually armor sux balls compared to shield. Armor need some love from devs in echoes. Being one step closer to death while only starting to use ur tank should be more rewarding. If shields fail you can try escaping with armor and hull goes down... if armor tank fails hull tanking gives very little time to try to escape
Yea it really does. Yea I agree the scenarios could have been better. Out ranging optimal etc. But I wanted to really keep it as basic as possible. For everyone to understand. Thanks for the feedback!
I agree.. Loved armour tanks in EVE online but when they simplified the slot configuration they really messed up the balance.. I also like having the buffer in my fit by shield tanking so I can disengage if I am taking a battering. Also, all the defence skills armour hp only have as much boost as shields at level 5. Also armour tanked ships need more low slots for equivalent hardening yet the Ashiimu only has 4, that's less than a phantasm
Its really up to personal preference I hate large Neuts for the stupidly long activation times. It allows some ships like the succ for example to always have uptime on modules because there cap regen is too high
Since fitting both LG nos and LG shield booster are powergrid hungry, would it still have been possible to defeat the phantasm/cynabal with only the LG shield booster and two medium nosferatus? (is the LG nos THAT important/necessary?)
Without the Large NOS, you wont have enough capacitor to be viable using LSB. You could however take out the Medium NOS and not lose too much they are still quite PG hungry. If its an issue of skills?
@@SovereignRPG it's an issue of existing rigs (for doctrine purposes). At most I currently can lose only one rig slot and I don't think one power grid rig will cut it, trying to figure out a workaround. LSB is currently in place with 2xMed Nos @ 11 mins unstable which is working so far. I suppose as long as it doesn't require the range of the LG nos, it could/should work??
I am a day late to this video but do these same principles apply to pve? I run encounters and stories and have found much more success from my harbinger than from the hurricanes. Would I then be much better off shield tanking the Harbinger?
It really all depends on the content you are running. If the content your running is comfortable then don't worry about it. If your having trouble try dual reps. If that doesn't work then try shields. It really only counts towards top end content. I wouldn't spend more ISK to change to shields if your comfortably running what you are.
Great video thanks. I was in the process of skill training for my Cynabal to follow Azucai's last and fav fit, with 2 armour reps and one resistance. Any chance of doing another video about how shield Vs armour compare in a Cynabal please?
I use a similar, but slightly more optimized version of that build (C-type AB, and I use two firing rate rigs which gives slightly better overall DPS than one of each), so I'm also curious! I've also flown shield tank Cynabals (one rep, two res), and the armor tank feels more powerful to me. The three main differences: -Large armor repairers only repair 80% of what large shield boosters do, but for mediums it's more or less equal. -The Cynabal is significantly more cap constrained than the Ashimmu. -That said, the Ashimmu is significantly skewed towards armor HP, while Cynabal is equal. My intuition says Sovereign could have built his armor tank Ashimmu better by more or less copying Azucai's Cyn, using two medium repairers and one res, giving him more powergrid for midslots, and then fitting a +30% armor repair rig.
@@JeffGraw As Sovereig says, this is not about a proper setup, but just to showcase the difference. You are right though when you say that Large armour reps have an issue vs shield, whereas for medium they are similar. I run some numbers in a spreadsheet and given the abysmal resistances for armore adaptive vs shield, running 2x med armour reps and 1x resistance is much, much better than 1x large armour rep and 2x resistances. In my calcs, the most boost comes from 1x large shield with 2x resistances, closely followed up with 2x med armours and 1x resistance at about 82% where 1x large amour and 2x resistances is at 62%. Obviously the large shield stup is twice as hungry in cap. So my thinking is that unless you seriously rig for cap, 2x med armour and 1x resistance is probably better for cruisers, for BS shield wins no matter what.
@@SovereignRPG please can you settle an argument with myself and my friend. Does the cynabal itself have a large nos equipped? I'm assuming it does. Thank you :)
Personally I haven't had any problems with armor tanking. The one thing I will agree with however, is the fact that the circulation time should be alot quicker or equal to the shield, or the shield circulation need to be slower. Ome of the 2.
In general terms day to day you won't have issues fighting your average user. But go against someone who knows what they are doing and you both have equal skill. Shield will just be on top. It's a shame :-
@@SovereignRPG I'll agree, the biggest issue is resistances. Shield seems to do good against all types while armor does not. They should have equal resistances especially on what they are resistant to. Like shield resistance towards explosive and armors against em. Which seems to not be the case. So, yeah I definitely agree they could do way better with armor. Armor should out last shields even if only for a few seconds.
Damn! I did not see that coming! Ashimu king of pvp 1v1 Shield tanking lol would awear it would by Phantasam or Cynibal. Vigilant being great for fleet action
This is not good fitting! For armor ashimmu. Mid slots: 1* meta 6 large nosferatu 1*large meta 6 large neutraliser 1* predator web 1*predator dis warp not scrambler Low slots: 2* repair modules 1* adaptive armor 1* mwd Riggs: 1*t3 +30% bonus to repair 1*t3 +30% armor 1*t3 anti explosive Tech rigs 2* power grid t3 1* polycarbon t3 Engineering skills 5-5-4 for cruisers. And you can keep at range 25-28 km any ship you want, and kill him. Dps will be 550. But enemy will not repair himself!
Not arguing about the armor / shield difference / unbalance, but why in hell would you not use a large neut on Ashimmu? If you use 2 medium armor reps and 1 large neut + 1 medium nos, you sh*t on Phantasm and Cynabal... Please test that too... Use webs to keep distance while you cycle through Neutralizer, then aproach and kill.
He's not using the standard kite and then close in setup. He's purely brawling. Just to showcase what can be achieved shield tanking than a ship meant for armour!
Everyone who runs an ashimmu knows how to run a kiting vampire. Using webs to keep distance and out ranging optimal has nothing to do with testing an actual tank that is why I picked a brawling style basic fit.
@@SovereignRPG it is possible that i overreacted because i dont think Ashimmu could lose in any 1v1 fight :-))) and got lost in the details, purpose of the vid
Currently 5/5/3 eng with 2 level 3 power grid rigs. Still can’t make the fit, the only skills that effect me fitting this is eng and shield correct? What was your shield skills sov?
We built them all. Our entire corp has a lot of faction ships. Frigates, cruisers and Battleships. It's really not that hard when you have no life lmao
Yeah I use a large nos and double webs on mine and range kite.. Different fit but same point and yes I also shield tank. Yes I could use two armour reps on it but it only has 4 low slots, one has a propulsion mod so that's 3 for the tank.
Interesting, Why would you use a large armor repairer over 2 medium? Less cap, less power grid and more repairing faster, just replace one of the “holy hardeners” and you’re golden
Its more a video of comparing armor VS shield using the same ship more than ashimmu v ashimmu. It's not meant to be optimal. There are a million ways to make armor stronger and there are even more ways to make the shield stronger. But going too into detail confuses a lot of people. So I tried to make it as basic as possible after getting complaints my videos are only for vets.
Yeah I used to fit with two medium armour reps, and one hardner it works but since using the large shield booster and two shield hardners why would I go back.. Tanking is better and I have a armour buffer for if I need to disengage
I know that its flagged as a big ewar ship but its more than energy cap the 29k webs are a huge boon. Either way great video and once I squeeze out armor reps 5/5 and bc engineering exp 4 it should be able to fit a faction loot not officer fit for the large rep and nos
True enough. I rarely solo anymore so I generally have someone fit for ewar. Usually arbitrator covops or interdictor for the tracking. I have the worst luck everytime I solo I always run into a bloody blob lol. Haven't died yet. But it's just my luck.
Uugh im surprised people dont understand how cap effecient armor ships and armor reps are...for armor use 1 reactive hardener, dual reps and at least 1 auxiliary nano pump. Thank me later.
That's the point. Why to use two hardener and one repairer? When I armor tank I always go for one hardener (or one adaptive and one reactive if I need more tank) and two repairers. I have NEVER played two adaptives and one reps. You can do it thanks to armor requiring less cap
It just doesn't work out that way. This video aside. As it wasnt a "How to Optimally fit an Ashimmu" Video. It is a like for like comparison of 2 fits. Armor ships are fine if your running around fighting trainer ships and newbros. Fighting someone of equal skill using a shield fit will just be better in every way considering armors bonus is supposed to be a much higher buffer. Which is almost non existent in ships where it actually matters, at a level where it actually matters. Putting it very basically: Armor does fine at very small scales or low tech levels compared to shields and is fairly well balanced. The higher you begin to scale, shields base advantages start to become much more prevalent, regardless of drawbacks. When you get to Faction Battleship levels, scaling to extreme. Armor just does not compete in any way shape or form to the tank of a shield fit. No matter what ship it is. Shields allow for a more DPS fitting with less low slots taken up by tank. Shields allow for more upscale modules with the lower PG. Although Shield ships generally have less PG to compensate for this. Using shield on an armor ship is actually a massive bonus for this. Armor ships generally have a much lower cap amount making the less cap use for reps almost void by comparing. Armor ships generally have high Cap usage weaponry also making the less cap use of reps almost void again. Shield Field Modules give a massive bonus to resistances, whereas the Armor Link does not. Even with group rep modules, Logi ships have a massive disadvantage having to rep more than 1 target with a guardian, as opposed to logi having to all concentrate on 1 shield guardian at a time. I can keep going for a massive amount of time. But this isnt EVE Online. This wall of text is getting to long. I will release a video going into way more detail than this basic representation aimed at helping people to understand on a very basic level.
This has nothing to do with how to fit an Ashimmu properly. Just a basic test on how much of a difference there is between armor and shield using the Ashimmu. If you want to advertise your videos please let me know. I'll happily do it without the need for theatrics.
Ok guys im only going to explain this one more time as I keep getting the same comments. So please do not be upset if I do not reply to your comment.
This is not an ashimmu fitting guide. This is not an optimal way to fit an ashimmu. Kiting in an ashimmu is not the only way to fit an ashimmu.
Now we know what it isn't. Let me tell you what this video is.
It is a basic representation of a brawling style fit of both armor and shield. This is supposed to be as close as possible in the most basic way possible. To show in the most basic terms how bad armor and shield balancing really is.
I hope you read this message before posting another this armor ashimmu is shit you should fit it like this. It's not needed. We all know how to fit an ashimmu to range kite until their cap is gone. That's not the purpose of this video.
Thanks.
Such a frustrating balance issue.
That was actually a painful comparison to watch. Good showcasing! .... Devs get on this asap, for the sake of eve and proper balancing
"Why do you use shields on armor tank you noob?" A question ive heard over thousand times. There were minor changes to combat scenarios i would make, but all in all a great demonstration of how actually armor sux balls compared to shield. Armor need some love from devs in echoes. Being one step closer to death while only starting to use ur tank should be more rewarding. If shields fail you can try escaping with armor and hull goes down... if armor tank fails hull tanking gives very little time to try to escape
Yea it really does. Yea I agree the scenarios could have been better. Out ranging optimal etc. But I wanted to really keep it as basic as possible. For everyone to understand. Thanks for the feedback!
I agree.. Loved armour tanks in EVE online but when they simplified the slot configuration they really messed up the balance.. I also like having the buffer in my fit by shield tanking so I can disengage if I am taking a battering. Also, all the defence skills armour hp only have as much boost as shields at level 5. Also armour tanked ships need more low slots for equivalent hardening yet the Ashiimu only has 4, that's less than a phantasm
imo it's better to oversize the neut and keep a med nos but that might just be me
Its really up to personal preference I hate large Neuts for the stupidly long activation times. It allows some ships like the succ for example to always have uptime on modules because there cap regen is too high
Why to use two hardener and one repairer rather than one hardener and two repairer?
Because its a like for like comparison video, shield and armor, not a how to optimally fit an Ashimmu. Just a very basic test :)
@@SovereignRPG Not really like for like if you pit a Large Shield Booster vs a Medium Armor Rep
They are both Large Reps FYI
Awesome job with this comparison. Painful to watch as an ashimmu armour pilot but it needed addressing. I hope the devs listen and balance this soon.
Great job showcasing this!
Wow, fantastic video! Thank you for pointing this out and showing it! This is absolutely something that needs to be addressed!
Since fitting both LG nos and LG shield booster are powergrid hungry, would it still have been possible to defeat the phantasm/cynabal with only the LG shield booster and two medium nosferatus? (is the LG nos THAT important/necessary?)
Without the Large NOS, you wont have enough capacitor to be viable using LSB. You could however take out the Medium NOS and not lose too much they are still quite PG hungry. If its an issue of skills?
@@SovereignRPG it's an issue of existing rigs (for doctrine purposes). At most I currently can lose only one rig slot and I don't think one power grid rig will cut it, trying to figure out a workaround. LSB is currently in place with 2xMed Nos @ 11 mins unstable which is working so far. I suppose as long as it doesn't require the range of the LG nos, it could/should work??
I am a day late to this video but do these same principles apply to pve? I run encounters and stories and have found much more success from my harbinger than from the hurricanes. Would I then be much better off shield tanking the Harbinger?
It really all depends on the content you are running. If the content your running is comfortable then don't worry about it. If your having trouble try dual reps. If that doesn't work then try shields. It really only counts towards top end content. I wouldn't spend more ISK to change to shields if your comfortably running what you are.
Grrr, I'm going to have to rethink my future fits now. Thanks for the heads up o7
Great video thanks.
I was in the process of skill training for my Cynabal to follow Azucai's last and fav fit, with 2 armour reps and one resistance. Any chance of doing another video about how shield Vs armour compare in a Cynabal please?
I use a similar, but slightly more optimized version of that build (C-type AB, and I use two firing rate rigs which gives slightly better overall DPS than one of each), so I'm also curious! I've also flown shield tank Cynabals (one rep, two res), and the armor tank feels more powerful to me.
The three main differences:
-Large armor repairers only repair 80% of what large shield boosters do, but for mediums it's more or less equal.
-The Cynabal is significantly more cap constrained than the Ashimmu.
-That said, the Ashimmu is significantly skewed towards armor HP, while Cynabal is equal.
My intuition says Sovereign could have built his armor tank Ashimmu better by more or less copying Azucai's Cyn, using two medium repairers and one res, giving him more powergrid for midslots, and then fitting a +30% armor repair rig.
@@JeffGraw As Sovereig says, this is not about a proper setup, but just to showcase the difference. You are right though when you say that Large armour reps have an issue vs shield, whereas for medium they are similar. I run some numbers in a spreadsheet and given the abysmal resistances for armore adaptive vs shield, running 2x med armour reps and 1x resistance is much, much better than 1x large armour rep and 2x resistances.
In my calcs, the most boost comes from 1x large shield with 2x resistances, closely followed up with 2x med armours and 1x resistance at about 82% where 1x large amour and 2x resistances is at 62%. Obviously the large shield stup is twice as hungry in cap.
So my thinking is that unless you seriously rig for cap, 2x med armour and 1x resistance is probably better for cruisers, for BS shield wins no matter what.
A some video! Opened my eyes! Why double nos and use the neut?
EDIT: I got my answer from the other comments :)
Hehe thanks for looking!
@@SovereignRPG please can you settle an argument with myself and my friend. Does the cynabal itself have a large nos equipped? I'm assuming it does. Thank you :)
@@arfybarfy3303 yes both the cynabal and phantasm have large nos.
@@SovereignRPG absolute legend! Thank you so much :)
Personally I haven't had any problems with armor tanking. The one thing I will agree with however, is the fact that the circulation time should be alot quicker or equal to the shield, or the shield circulation need to be slower. Ome of the 2.
In general terms day to day you won't have issues fighting your average user. But go against someone who knows what they are doing and you both have equal skill. Shield will just be on top. It's a shame :-
@@SovereignRPG I'll agree, the biggest issue is resistances. Shield seems to do good against all types while armor does not. They should have equal resistances especially on what they are resistant to. Like shield resistance towards explosive and armors against em. Which seems to not be the case.
So, yeah I definitely agree they could do way better with armor. Armor should out last shields even if only for a few seconds.
Damn! I did not see that coming! Ashimu king of pvp 1v1 Shield tanking lol would awear it would by Phantasam or Cynibal. Vigilant being great for fleet action
a great content, with well-researched information in it, thanks
I have an idea to using a 2x large nos, but have to change laser with rapid misile and L shield with M shield booter, its really fun to use
@@reviniaputri laser with rapid missile? -_-
@@vickylance yep, due to the high pg requirement of laser ^^
@@reviniaputri I have a large nos and large neut equipped and have 3 T3 powergrid rigs
This is not good fitting! For armor ashimmu.
Mid slots: 1* meta 6 large nosferatu
1*large meta 6 large neutraliser
1* predator web
1*predator dis warp not scrambler
Low slots: 2* repair modules
1* adaptive armor
1* mwd
Riggs:
1*t3 +30% bonus to repair
1*t3 +30% armor
1*t3 anti explosive
Tech rigs
2* power grid t3
1* polycarbon t3
Engineering skills 5-5-4 for cruisers.
And you can keep at range 25-28 km any ship you want, and kill him. Dps will be 550. But enemy will not repair himself!
If you will get closer, he will die too! Any ship!
AND - vs Armor tank Cynabal ?
Not arguing about the armor / shield difference / unbalance, but why in hell would you not use a large neut on Ashimmu? If you use 2 medium armor reps and 1 large neut + 1 medium nos, you sh*t on Phantasm and Cynabal... Please test that too... Use webs to keep distance while you cycle through Neutralizer, then aproach and kill.
He's not using the standard kite and then close in setup. He's purely brawling. Just to showcase what can be achieved shield tanking than a ship meant for armour!
Everyone who runs an ashimmu knows how to run a kiting vampire. Using webs to keep distance and out ranging optimal has nothing to do with testing an actual tank that is why I picked a brawling style basic fit.
@@SovereignRPG it is possible that i overreacted because i dont think Ashimmu could lose in any 1v1 fight :-))) and got lost in the details, purpose of the vid
What were your skills to be able to fit the large nos and shield? I can’t seem to make the power grid for the fit.
5/5/4 engi.
Currently 5/5/3 eng with 2 level 3 power grid rigs. Still can’t make the fit, the only skills that effect me fitting this is eng and shield correct? What was your shield skills sov?
How do you have so many ashimmu's? I know its test server, but you had several in live? or you got from corp members?
We built them all. Our entire corp has a lot of faction ships. Frigates, cruisers and Battleships. It's really not that hard when you have no life lmao
Hi
Please run an absolutely frantic test, Prophecy on shields versus Prophecy on armor.
I guess 20% armor bonus won't save)
Thank you
I thought most of the time people use medium nos + large neut, why double nos?
Nos is only 1/6th less GJ than a Neut with a faster activation time. Just personal preference. large Neuts have a 20s activation its rough.
@@SovereignRPG 24 seconds bruv
Oof
try not to follow what everyone does or u might end up armour tanking
Yeah I use a large nos and double webs on mine and range kite.. Different fit but same point and yes I also shield tank. Yes I could use two armour reps on it but it only has 4 low slots, one has a propulsion mod so that's 3 for the tank.
Interesting, Why would you use a large armor repairer over 2 medium?
Less cap, less power grid and more repairing faster, just replace one of the “holy hardeners” and you’re golden
Its more a video of comparing armor VS shield using the same ship more than ashimmu v ashimmu. It's not meant to be optimal. There are a million ways to make armor stronger and there are even more ways to make the shield stronger. But going too into detail confuses a lot of people.
So I tried to make it as basic as possible after getting complaints my videos are only for vets.
Yeah I used to fit with two medium armour reps, and one hardner it works but since using the large shield booster and two shield hardners why would I go back.. Tanking is better and I have a armour buffer for if I need to disengage
I know that its flagged as a big ewar ship but its more than energy cap the 29k webs are a huge boon. Either way great video and once I squeeze out armor reps 5/5 and bc engineering exp 4 it should be able to fit a faction loot not officer fit for the large rep and nos
Webs are ewar aswell.
@@SovereignRPG right but like drone tracking modules, just kinda overlooked in ease of life application
True enough. I rarely solo anymore so I generally have someone fit for ewar. Usually arbitrator covops or interdictor for the tracking.
I have the worst luck everytime I solo I always run into a bloody blob lol. Haven't died yet. But it's just my luck.
Was this on Fulmination? We woulda noticed u popping into branch lol
Uugh im surprised people dont understand how cap effecient armor ships and armor reps are...for armor use 1 reactive hardener, dual reps and at least 1 auxiliary nano pump.
Thank me later.
That's the point. Why to use two hardener and one repairer? When I armor tank I always go for one hardener (or one adaptive and one reactive if I need more tank) and two repairers. I have NEVER played two adaptives and one reps. You can do it thanks to armor requiring less cap
It just doesn't work out that way. This video aside. As it wasnt a "How to Optimally fit an Ashimmu" Video. It is a like for like comparison of 2 fits.
Armor ships are fine if your running around fighting trainer ships and newbros. Fighting someone of equal skill using a shield fit will just be better in every way considering armors bonus is supposed to be a much higher buffer. Which is almost non existent in ships where it actually matters, at a level where it actually matters.
Putting it very basically:
Armor does fine at very small scales or low tech levels compared to shields and is fairly well balanced.
The higher you begin to scale, shields base advantages start to become much more prevalent, regardless of drawbacks.
When you get to Faction Battleship levels, scaling to extreme. Armor just does not compete in any way shape or form to the tank of a shield fit. No matter what ship it is.
Shields allow for a more DPS fitting with less low slots taken up by tank.
Shields allow for more upscale modules with the lower PG. Although Shield ships generally have less PG to compensate for this. Using shield on an armor ship is actually a massive bonus for this.
Armor ships generally have a much lower cap amount making the less cap use for reps almost void by comparing.
Armor ships generally have high Cap usage weaponry also making the less cap use of reps almost void again.
Shield Field Modules give a massive bonus to resistances, whereas the Armor Link does not.
Even with group rep modules, Logi ships have a massive disadvantage having to rep more than 1 target with a guardian, as opposed to logi having to all concentrate on 1 shield guardian at a time.
I can keep going for a massive amount of time. But this isnt EVE Online. This wall of text is getting to long.
I will release a video going into way more detail than this basic representation aimed at helping people to understand on a very basic level.
um the that first fight you didnt have your mwd on
Edited because I thought this was a diff video....
Scrams turn off MWDs
That kind of content is the only interesting content
Technical test!
how about try a 2reps on ashimmu
Please look at pinned comment
You been copying my shield fit from the eve echoes face book page haha 😄
Lol as if I'd ever go willingly into that hell hole hahaha
Спасибо! Лайк!
Como por que lo pones en español si hablas inglés que falta de respeto.
Looooooooool. Look at my armor ashimmu on this channel. Your ashimmu is terrible :)
This has nothing to do with how to fit an Ashimmu properly. Just a basic test on how much of a difference there is between armor and shield using the Ashimmu.
If you want to advertise your videos please let me know. I'll happily do it without the need for theatrics.
Я у тебя скопировал))) спасибо за Фит бро. Никто щас не выживает подо мной))) выкладывай видео с пвп очень интересная тема
@@spacekhan4809 у кого? Меня?)
Да конечно у тебя) у этого чела фит какой-то не такой
@@spacekhan4809 ааааааа... Там rts выложил ашиму. У меня чуть глаза не выпали от его фита
im starting to hate this game more and more. videos on it flood youtube when you search for eve all with less than 10k views