Paying to leave a church????? Scientology is insane. I cannot see a legal reason to do so, unless you signed a contract to do so,,, tell them to pound salt.
Even *with* a contract, that's not legal. Not a lawyer, and I don't know the exact terminology, but basically, you can't be expected to pay back a gift, for training (like for a job), or someone who took responsibility of you while underage (AKA the costs of raising, housing, and feeding you.) In this case, I think from the post that the "job" OP had with the cult included room and board, and the cost of *that* is what he's expected to refund to the organization. I believe (Again, Not a lawyer) You can't be expected to pay that back, even if you quit. Edit: Misspelled basically. Thanks for that.
And dude had to work for them unpaid for years too and was pressured to leave school to work more, then when he wanted to leave they expected him to pay?? Actual clowns 🤡
If they're telling you not to get an education or not to look at stuff from other ways of living, its because keeping you ignorant makes you forget you have a choice. Keep learning folks
I think a good way to judge if its a cult is how much it costs you to leave. From losing friends or loved ones, to literally paying them money, these are real give aways. The church I went to as a kid, well you just walk away and no one probably even notices. They didn't have any contact details for me or my parents or any idea where any of us worked.
THIS. if you can't just leave without being guilted, pressured to stay, having it cost money, being shunned, then it's not healthy. maybe not a cult, but definitely not healthy.
YUP! Literally argued with a Mormon about this, telling me my information is false if it's from excommunicated members and I'm like buddy...why do y'all need to excommunicate people?? I haven't been to church in a decade but I'm free to come back, i can talk to my family still in their church 👀
It's so strange that other branches of Christianity and other religions or so controlling cuz most Christians can just go to church in the middle of nowhere that has a cross on it and boom you're welcome it might be a little strange that a random person just popped up but you're welcome
Scientology works their members 80 hours a week for $50, and still calls them freeloaders and makes them pay an outrageous amount of money when they leave. 🙄
Yep, that is beyond ridiculous! In the United States, even if you are working the federal minimum, that amount of hours in one week would still equal $580 before taxes. $50 for 80 hours is not only ludicrous, but those Scientology people should be in jail.
@@lydiapetra1211 Coercion, threats, losing any and all social connections they have, having nowhere to go... tbh there's a lot of reasons. And even if they DO leave anyway, the Church REALLY likes stalking and harassing and threatening any escapees. :S
Because their cult, until the Russians managed to get their hooks into the GOP within the last fifteen years, was the only organization that had locked horns with all of the US intelligence agencies (as well as the IRS) more or less simultaneously AND WON. If they manage to get dirt on the feds to the point they could force the Bureau and the Taxman to back off, no single former member of the group is going to keep the Org from pushing them around. @@lydiapetra1211
I feel like it would be harder to get away from a call then stop eating sugar cuz sugar is something that you can look and see if it's in the ingredients list but a cold tries to stop your perception of anything else
I really respect your viewpoint on religion. I'm Catholic, and I support all faiths, including those who don't believe in God/Jesus/any higher being. It's so sad seeing people use religion to extort others and going absolutely crazy. It gives the good religious people a bad name and, like you said, it gives people trauma associated with religion that they should never have to experience. Please know that not all religious people are like these crazy, cruel idiots.
It also help religions when they aren’t shoving it down you throat, had a friend in high school that her family made attend every church event even on school nights (their church was like an hour away or something and those events could last a while, from what I understood). She said that once she graduates she’d move out and never talk to them or their religion again. And from my understanding she has done exactly that.
I'm lds, and thanks for sharing your viewpoint. I don't often meet people from different religions, and had little to no idea of what most other religions thought. Keep up being a nice person, and not being insane in this upside-down world. Beacon of light. Thx
@@jayewrite1256showing IT down someones throats defeats the purpose to begin with. Parroting Something you never actually internaly engaged with cause you are Not allowed to questionnit IS the exact opposite of belief. Believ comes from the INSIDE, IT can BE nurtured, but talking away the choice actually makes IT Impossible to really believe since you are robbed of all the internal processes and making that choice yourself! You can Not force belief on someone, only empty rituals
IT IS so Bad, at this Point my Fist instinct upon coming across someone religious IS shoring Up my defences and basically getting Battle ready, before very conciously forcing myself to relex and given them a Chance. I have a Lot of Bad experience with christianity and Just people in generell WHO abuser Religion to Hurt Others . . . . But thats Not the Religions fault. ITS Just Like with fire, the Same traids that make IT amazing and benificial also make IT Dangerous . . . I admire the ability to truely believe, without turning IT into BS. I would Love to Talk with someone with a healthy relationship to religion
Religion can be helpful for a lot of people, it's unfortunate some rotten apples take the opportunity to manipulate others and spread hate. They say they speak for God but mostly they just speak for themselves.
For me, it was the moment I realized that the founder of my "religion" was exactly the same sort of guy who has started every other cult. Jim Jones, David Koresh, L Ron Hubbard, and Joseph Smith Jr. All the same guy. The lies, the cons, the whole marrying teenage girls thing (seriously, why does it always come to that?), the "give us your money, even if you can't pay your bills", dodging taxes, "spiritual revelations" that are always conveniently in line with whatever the leader wants/needs at the moment, the lying about church doctrine/history, etc etc etc. Once I realized that my church was founded by a cult leader, it became pretty obvious that my church was actually a cult, and I left.
Same. Second was the lies. They tell you to believe them over the guys before them, but equally that "all prophets were inspired by God". Thankfully it was the black and white thinking they installed that made it easy to see through that
They marry teenage girls because they're easy to control, they'll produce more church members and early marriage stunts life outcomes meaning they'll be trapped, unaware kr buy in.
Hubbard is on a whole different level he was a science fiction writer who is quoted as saying "You don't get rich writing books. You want to get rich start a religion"
David Koresh wasn’t a cult leader. He founded an actual church that was raided by the government for reasons that were 100% fabricated. The only thing he did that was morally wrong (and he openly admitted was wrong) was married a 16 year old girl while he was in his mid twenties but was legal back then with parent’s permission. Seriously glad they changed that law
Knew a guy that was in the Church of Christ, he was a co-worker. I went with him to one of their large gatherings. They passed Communion around at one point, which I didn't take part in, and he was a little bit disappointed. (I'm Lutheran and we don't take Communion unless it's in a Lutheran Church.) This guy was so into this church. So religious. Imagine our surprise at work one day when they came in to press charges on him for theft. He had been stealing from the cash register. The rest of us there were talking amongst ourselves pointing out how religious he was and was always on about how people should obey the commandments. A few months later I ran into him and we decided to go to lunch. He admitted to me that he had been stealing from the cash register because he had to keep up with his tithe at church. His reasoning for stealing is that giving to God was first and foremost and the money was going to the church. I tried to explain things a bit better to him about faith etc. but he was too far gone. I often wonder what happened to him in the long run.
My mom grew up in this church. She realized as a young adult how insane it was and left . That was decades ago, and her sister is still in deep. They don't talk much
@@azurephoenix9546 Yeah, I knew another guy who joined some church as he was settling into a new area. He didn't go every Sunday so they showed up at his door one day to tell him what was what if he wanted to join their church. And he told them what was what and showed them the door. LOL. In some of the Lutheran churches in the old days there were tithes but if someone fell on hard times or whatnot they weren't held to it. By the time I was an adult we didn't do tithing, at least at the Lutheran churches I've attended.
@Albanwinter It may have just been an assumption of tithes or an expectation of giving. But Paul tells people not to if they can't. He made tents for a living, but I noticed that a lot of people skim over that and ignored the fact that they all had side jobs while they were out proselytizing. There's nothing wrong with being a pastor as a profession or devotional calling without other income, but it's often not a sustainable situation for a lot of churches and churchgoers. My husband's family are Lutheran, and their pastor is also a high school principal. The previous pastor was a wheat farmer. The incoming or associate pastor does music therapy for disbled children as his job. I would guess it isn't ideal, as it means a very limited amount of time to devote to actual church work, but it probably wasn't all that easy in the past either, but everyone needs to eat
I'm Australian and went to a Catholic school, it was and still is the best primary school in town. Their curriculum was far ahead of the local public school, everyone was surprisingly nice and understanding. Even ended up waving the debt my parents had to keep me in there which was over 13k. Not all catholic schools are bad. Just most.
Also had a good catholic school experience, when I was in Middle School, it may have been related to being high functioning autistic but I really struggled. I didn't really care about school, didn't see the point. But I got a lot of support given that the school was on the smaller side. And the people that worked there really cared about me succeeding. Now I'm in HS and am doing fantastic. Needless to say if I had gone to the massive public school down the street I think I would be in a very different place right now. Sometimes Catholic Schools can get a pretty bad rep on the internet, so I hope my story gives the good ones the credit they deserve.
My Christian Brothers experience was pitiful. They were too busy stockpiling money in preparation for the new co-ed school they were planning to bother maintaining the current school, repairing equipment or replacing "useless" subjects like art or music when the relevant teachers retired or left. They'd just fill the period with religious Ed. At one point in Year 10, four of the seven classes in one day were RE. I left, took two years off & worked, then went to a state school for 11 & 12. I'll always regret that I didn't attend a state school from Grade 1. It was a revelation!
I actually went to a convent school from 3 years old to 10 years old although I wasn't actually a Catholic and I loved it. When Mother Angela retired, Sister Imelda came in and modernised the school. She put in a library where I read a book on female inventors and A Little Princess, and both of those books changed my life.
One of my children (from the 5th grade) attended a Catholic school just like me (from the 1st grade) until we graduated. The other child attended a state school (each of their own choice from the 5th grade). Our Catholic school child had much better social interaction and was very shocked to visit his old elementary school classmates' public school on a Catholic holiday. Because no teacher intervened when the children insulted and condescended to others even during lessons because they were either particularly good or particularly bad at the respective lesson topic. As a parent there was also a difference in the interaction with the teachers, the teachers at the Catholic school discussed on an equal level, while most teachers at the public school seemed to expect that you, as a parent, if they made a "negative" statement (behavior, school successes, etc.) threaten to contact a lawyer to have the “bad grades” removed.
@@manub.3847 I'm assuming you're Aussie, in which case your experience is the result more than two decades of private schools being grossly over funded by the Federal Government, while PUBLIC education receives consistently LESS - a situation that occurs nowhere else in the Western world.
Former Jehovah’s Witness here. Was in for about seven years. I never heard the term “high control group” while I was in. I just knew that it felt like I was living in a fishbowl, being watched and judged for every little thing in my life. When I found myself policing my own thoughts for fear of some mysterious sky daddy hearing them, I knew this wasn’t sustainable. Hope everyone here familiarizes themselves with the B.I.T.E. Model, so they know what to watch out for.
@@Symbelle The B.I.T.E Model is how you can measure if an organization is a cult. It stands for: Behavior, Information, Thought and Emotion. I recommend you google it. It’s an interesting read.
@@Symbelle bruh they literally say familiarize yourself lol; I’m sure you have access to a search engine? “Steven Hassan developed the BITE Model to describe cults’ specific methods to recruit and maintain control over people. “BITE” stands for Behavior, Information, Thought, and Emotional control.”
This is how you know the difference between a proper religion/church and a cult. A church says you're welcome any time, any reason, and while they might encourage you to follow them they won't be judgemental if you turn away. They want to help you and want you to see the way they do of your own volition; they want you to want to come back and be a part of their community. A church says "Come in." A cult on the other hand stifles your free will, tells you not to think for yourself, tells you they are your only salvation, and shames you if you speak out against them. And they make it impossible, or at least extremely difficult to leave them and go your own way without them. A cult says "Never leave, no exceptions."
Also a church will not control your actual life. They may tell you you should do this, maybe tall shit about you if its a small community and you dont do it, but they dont actually make you do it.
@@AndrewChumKaser lol. You are VERY wrong about that. I spent 20 years in churches ranging from Pentecostal to Catholic to Presbyterian to non denominational. And I can tell you will all certainty that religion does not require money. And every western religion has tithing guidelines in their holy books and layed out by their ecclesiastical governments. Plus western religion expects you to declare that you need them for forgiveness and religious rebirth. Which is just plain manipulation. You are not born in sin, you make a conscious decision every day to either be a good person or not. You don’t need a God to tell you to be a good person.
I wasn't pulled in, but one attempted to recruit me. The worst part was afterwards when I had looked it up and realised that the person had been trying to pull me in. I tried telling my parents and they just... waved me off, like it wasn't important. I don't tell my parents important things these days
@@reetasingh6297my parents often dismissed me. as an adult I'm on very controlled contact and I never tell them the deep stuff. The incident was also fairly mild as these things go - the person was a customer in the shop I was in, and kept inviting me to their "meetings" and had a super weird smile. Afterwards I looked up the group to find it on a cult warning list. I tried to tell them because I felt shaken and scared and they paid no attention to me.
@@duckmeat4674I would liken it to being hit on by a person who keeps cornering you and doesn't like your "no". would you also tell a child who's just broken their leg "everyone breaks bones, move on"?
Thats the IBLP, Bill Gothard literally teaches that SA is the girls fault for "tempting the brethren", and that excuse is always ridiculous but ESPECIALLY when you see how conservative they dress and act
I have never heard of anyone being inspired to be like them, IRL. But I have heard of hundreds who, while enjoying watching the shows, were inspired NEVER to go there. 🤣
@bethanyhanna9464 Unfortunately, I have known people who were inspired by them. Luckily, the ones I was still in contact with partially snapped out of it once the SA stuff came out.
@@steviebeevieI grew up in a chult (not every church in the org is a full cult but they all share some cultish beliefs/behaviors) and the females were always blamed for men behaving badly. It wasnt always iutright stated as such but the teaching indicated that we had to do xyz or not do abc because it mught cause a man to "stumble". So infuriating.
I think the reason why the University of Tennessee was so prominently focused on in that cult was because I believe the University of Tennessee was the first University to teach Evolution to it students rather than the Creationist belief. There was a whole Supreme Court case about it when it happened if I remember from Civics class correctly. I think it was in the 50s. But take it with a grain of salt, I may be wrong about everything.
Story 10 reminds me of a school I went to long ago. It wasn't an actual cult but have very cult-like vibes. The principal also ran it like she was the next Jesus. I could tell so many weird stories of that place, but I think the most petty was when I (a 13 yr old girl at the time) got subtle blonde highlights in my hair, the principal pulled me into her office and shamed me and then threatened to expel me if I didn't get rid of the highlights. I cannot stress enough how much these highlights were just a subtle blonde color, not bleach blond or an unnatural color. That woman genuinely scared me lol
Oh god. I had a kindergarten teacher like that. She put me on a leash and practically held me captive in the far corner of the classroom on the FIRST DAY OF SCHOOL because I didn’t know how to line up properly. I was 4 and had never gone to daycare so there’s no way I could have known.
soo similar to my headmaster at my current school rn, although instead of expel, “call parents” and if you do one problem and get caught, you get targetted for basically the rest of your school life and he also has a slight favouritism, he will let some go and punish others, when the ones that were allowed to go were obviously worse
@@Alternativeee my principal (probably the same thing as a headmaster) also has favourite kids. My friend accidentally knocked a kid out cold while protecting his friend who was in a fight. Him and his friend got suspended and the 2 kids who started the fight (and practically start every fight in the school of 1200 people) were let go. It’s the dumbest thing I ever heard.
@@CoolCademMAnimates-fz1ui schools be out here suspending the victims and make learning as disinteresting as possible and adults wonder why we hate schools lmao
What's weird is that I had heard this before about the University of Tennessee. I think it was somebody mentioning it when being interviewed on some show I was watching. The interviewer (as well as probably most of the viewers) had the same sort of "Wait, what?!" kind of reaction.
And don't forget the fact they say the moon isn't real - come on, the moon appears in the Bible!! 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️
I am a rare breed for my race and family history, I was a person who was fascinated with ALL religions but was never truly “sold” on any of them. My dad’s mother’s family were Southern Baptist. I should point out that we are also of mixed heritage. My grandmother made us (her grandchildren) go to church all the time with her. All of her siblings except one, who was Catholic, attended the same church. All of the grandchildren attended Sunday School except me. I do remember going once but asking questions and then suddenly I didn’t have to go anymore. I remember as a young child watching someone experiencing the Holy Spirit and being absolutely appalled by their behavior. Mind you, she was only convulsing on the ground but I distinctly remember thinking: “you are so faking it” which alarmed me. I truly wanted to believe in what they did but I just… couldn’t. Not whole heartedly. I will never forget the time I used the Bible to get out of attending church forever. My grandma was getting ready for church one Sunday morning and I just… didn’t want to be bothered. I was required to wear a dress (I HATED them) and I looked at my grandma and she said: “you should get ready” Me: “why?” Grandma: “because we are going to the house of God to worship him..” Me: “But grandma it is said in Matthew such and such chapter and such and such verse that we carry the house of god within our hearts at all times and if that is true. I should not have to go to the “house of God” because according to the Bible I am always at his house.” And I turned back to watching cartoons. My grandma was flabbergasted. She retrieved her Bible opened it to the chapter and exact scripture I quoted and… determined that the Holy Spirit had directed me to say what I did since I was like 7. From that day forward I did not attend her church. My older cousin who lived with us HATED that I didn’t have to go but my grandma saw it as God speaking through me and determining that I didn’t have to go to church. That didn’t last long as at 8 I moved in with my mother and SHE wanted to be a Jehovah’s Witness. I was NOT interested in the slightest. Well that’s partially true. I was interested in it through scholarly lenses but I was not someone who was interested in becoming a part of any of that. Sad to say, my mother bought it whole heartedly and her first husband did as well. They were both zealots and not in a good way. When I was 13, they decided they wanted to devote their lives to Jehovah. I did not. I was asked if I wanted to be baptized as well and I flat out said refused. That was something that they taught was that it was a life changing decision and you should take it very seriously. If you found that it wasn’t for you, then don’t do it. (Note: I have sense learned that what I was taught was definitely not apart of the doctrine and was actually against what they taught. My congregation also taught the importance of a higher education. Again actually not apart of the doctrine. Children were encouraged to become full time ministers HOWEVER there wasn’t any shame in wanting to attend college) I had said I didn’t want to get baptized because I thought that at the age of freaking 13 that this was entirely too serious of a situation for me to decide to do without proper thought, time to decide, etc. What was my parents reaction? My mom, evil that she is, applauded me for having such an adult way of thinking about baptism. Her husband on the other hand… did not like it. He wanted us to be baptized as a “family”. I was punished. I was not allowed to go anywhere or do anything until I saw “the light “. After a full year of being denied even socializing I gave in and was baptized at 15. That lasted all of 1 year before I decided that I was right and I did NOT wish to be associated with a religion that would shun people who left or punish people for deciding NOT to be one of them. I am proud to say I am a heathen and I really don’t give a eff about what you believe. However, the moment you try to force me to attend and believe what you do… I don’t like you nor whatever “god” you think you are worshipping. On a side note: My mother’s mother told me several years ago that according to their latest teachings, my baptism was null and void due to the fact that I was forced to do so under duress. Like I care.
Sound Like me, I do respect religion in ITS core and am deeply facinated by belief, but I have Zero tolerance for BS when IT comes to abusing Religion ad an excuse to cause harm!!! True Religion can only ever BE the choice and buisness of an Individuum, the Moment force comes into IT, ITS No longer belief . . .
I attended Christian preschool where there were strong expressions of the Christian faith and Bible readings. One day I realized as a still very young and naive child the hypocrisy of "Murder is bad, but if God condones it then murder is good". That was a very chilling moment that led me to sliding more/less into atheism lol
@@redbird9000 Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, and I’m proud to say that like OP, I’m an atheist. If you don’t like it, that’s your problem, not ours. Have a good day :)
I was a bio major at UTK. There’s a strong evolutionary component to the department (one of the 4 subcategories was/ is? Ecological and evolutionary biology) but this is just silly. And yes the football team gets the $$$$$
Maybe those people just don’t know there’s a world outside Tennessee. Your university is the most secular place they know, so obviously it’s in charge of ALL the fossils.
maybe they heard about the body farm and the bones that were stored under the stadium from it, but took it and ran with it in the most unhinged way possible
Was born into the Independent Fundamental Baptist Church (IFB). My dad wasn’t super serious about it until I was in high school. Wasn’t allowed to question anything, and my father owned me until he pawned me off to theoretically marry an IFB man, and homeschool the children. In 12th grade, my mom suddenly passed away. 8 days later, my former pastor, his wife, and my father all told me that I had to be my fathers wife since I was now the only girl in the house. A few years later, they sent me away to the other side of the country for conversion therapy under the guise of bible college, as I was the poster child for their purity culture and bus route. I developed a psychotic disorder while there because of the things they were teaching (in particular about marriage) and they performed an exorcism on me twice. Ironically I took a class about cults while I was in a cult. That was my aha moment. The whole class was just watching debates of an IFB pastor vs the other cults, and discussions about why the IFB is NOT a cult and everyone else is a cult even though the IFB did the exact same things. I ended up writing a paper as the class project about why the IFB is a cult, and got the highest grade in my class, as there was a loophole in the syllabus about being allowed to write about any religion, with preference towards the ones mentioned in class. Then there was a case within the church where a man had been abusing his 4 year old daughter and the dude got blind support despite the evidence being super obvious and in everyone’s faces. He was proven to be guilty, so I did some more research about the pastor and discovered that he had had 7 lawsuits against him for abusing his position as pastor and all of them was proven to be true, but when asked about it, he just said that it was him being persecuted by the devil. I decided to leave right then and there, but was physically unable to until the following year when I had to escape to another state in order to escape by train with nothing but my clothes and my mother’s momentous. It’s been almost 2 years since then and I’m in a much better place mentally now.
I feel like if, at any point, trauma or trauma-bonding are a central part of a religion, it's not a religion anymore. Edit for things I didn't think I had to say until I read the comments: Good grief, people, I ain't got the time or crayons to explain how trauma isn't just hurt feelings or a sense of guilt. No, a little trauma isn't good for the soul, no, you're not traumatizing someone just by saying they done a bad. If you don't in fact know what trauma is, maybe Google it. If it don't sound familiar, then why you think I'm talking about you? If it does, get help.
Religion is traumatic due to its opposition to nature and inherent guilt (feeling terrible about what you do) and shame (feeling terrible about who you ARE) are required to do it right
@@valeriew4833Not really, Just cause the church went of with making IT all about shame does Not mean all Religion IS about telling you you are intrinsically Bad and have to atone for existing . . .
@@valeriew4833 Trauma isn't guilt or shame. Trauma is a psychological response to intense pain which makes us avoid what caused it in the first place. If religion is traumatic, it's driving people away from itself.
I was adopted by strictly Mormon adoptive parents. My "dad" even later became the bishop of our ward. I was constantly sxually abused by him and so were my six sisters, though I got a bit more of that treatment due to my large chest. After giving it my all for over 10 years my older sisters started coming out as bisexual and my mother started to wonder why she couldn't love them if the church said Jesus loves everyone. Mormons actually hate everyone! So she left, and I hung on a little longer until she helped me to see. I deal with a lot of guilt for the way I treated people and I'm still learning to deal with the abuse my adoptive father still treats me with. It's been a few years, and in that time I've actually realised I'm agender (meaning I have a female body but I allow myself the freedom of a genderless life). I feel so free
That sounds positively horrible! Being a member myself it makes me sick that members of the church whould do that. I get why you left and I sincerely hope you're able to heal from what they have done to you and your sister
Thank you so much for your kind comment! I was honestly expecting a judgemental or rude comment from a mormon but this was a pleasant surprise. I have moved several states away and I'm doing well now; I even found another church for now. I hope you are doing well
I respect your choice to disassociate from your sexual body - completely normal for those of us who are incest/SA survivors. I hope you are eventually able to reintegrate, and reclaim what he took from you.
As a Tennessean, that last one caught my attention to. Wtf, why did WE get called out? Not that they'd listen to me as "blacks" are "not to be tolerated." It's almost refreshing to hear someone be that up front about being a racist for once.
My first thought was Bixby, OK, because that's been happening there as well. The leaders (a couple who claim that God spoke out loud to them and told them to move here) used the money from all the members to buy up property, including a local gas station/convenience store that they turned into a gift shop for cult merch, and now make the members work there. Also, if you join, you get your name changed to something that sounds like an alien from a 1950s sci-fi movie (e.g. Xenon, Klantu, etc).
When the religious organization my parents sent me openly said they were a cult lol. They would be like “normally cults are nice things but as usual media makes us look bad “ or “clapping is as bad as MURDER” I’m talking about normal clapping like you do at the end of a show. Their reasoning was it sounded like music and music is devils thingy so you are devil basically. Oh also graphic descriptions of a tale that goes like: there was a blacksmith who was blessed with being able to touch red hot iron without being burned. Then his wife opened the door to someone delivering something but she was in a hurry so she couldn’t put on her hijab properly. When she opened the door the guy standing there saw literally 1 strand of her hair and for some reason blacksmith lost his blessing without being informed. So he touched burning hot iron with his bare hands. Then they would proceed to tell us how a man seeing one strand of a woman’s hair is the same as them having sex which wasn’t the lesson story was trying to teach I guess but whatever just make shit up who is looking. The last straw was them not letting me go there after I was 13 if I wasn’t gonna stay there whole year (I just stayed at summer). That’s when I realized they couldn’t brainwash me without constant supervision at that age. Oh also I read (pronunciation I don’t understand arabic) the whole Quran at kindergarten before being able to read a letter in latin alphabet.
As a muslim, these things they brainwashed you with has absolutely no place in Islam whatsoever. Zina (illegal sexual activities) has many different levels, (the worst one being actual intercourse). Musical instruments are prohibited according to the majority opinion, however clapping with no intention of producing music does not fall under the same category. In any case they DO NOT compare to murder
Story 36: one time I was saved by a goat boy but then he started using me and the rest of the group to do rituals. And then the demo ended and he didn't have 20 buck so by now the pastor left and now I'm free to wear a tank top and shorts
As someone who was raised Mormon, seeing SO many stories about it here is so validating. I left officially the other day, but I left UNoffically years ago. Seeing certain ones here saying “not a cult, but…” is funny to me, because in my eyes, it absolutely is a cult. The Mormon church just insists over and over again that it isn’t.
On my drive from my house to my college, I drive by that massive Mormon temple on the highway. I’m not saying that having a massive temple is a definitive sign of a cult, but something about it is…unsettling
I left a long time ago, but I really only started thinking about how culty it was until recent years. One of the bigger red flags is how they make members feel guilty about leaving because “millions around the world have been waiting to hear the proclamation, you are LUCKY to have been born into it” I can go on all day about numerous other forms of psychological manipulation they use on questioning members, but this one is a good enough example.
Idk how people can say it’s not a cult after going to the temple. I went in once for the baptism of the dead and it put off so many alarms in my head why do they hand out marble????? Why are they using me a 14 year old for baptizing dead people???
I agree, even some non Mormons don't really see it as a cult because of all the PR the church does... so it's truly validating to hear stories that resonate with my experience growing up Mormon
To everyone here who insists that it's a cult, I object. I'm very sorry for your bad experiences, and my heart goes out to you - you definitely should never have been shamed or abused for being different or for leaving, and everyone who did those things to you will be punished eventually by a just God. All the same, I completely respect your absolute right to believe what you want, and if you insist that it's a cult then fine. Just please respect my choice to remain in the Church of my own volition, and don't just mindlessly say I'm brainwashed. It's that this religion has given me or led me to all the good things I've ever had in life, so I felt I needed to speak up and say that there IS good to be found in it. I hope you all have a wonderful day, amigos.
26:43 As a resident of Tennessee, I couldn't help but bust out laughing. Why Tennessee?! Wouldn't those people have at least suggested a Northern state?! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
That is because UT has an extensive Anthropological program. I took some anthropology classes underneath the football stadium where you learn about evolution and they have fossils from early hominids and you learn how to compare and contrast them and you can literally see the evolution of man from ape when you inspect and study them. It’s quite interesting seeing the progression of it over the millions of years.
As an Ex Mormon (born into it, left when i was 15), I am surprised to see so many Mormon stories in here. It reminds me of this specific memory I have, where I think it was a seminary teacher, said that “We’re only a cult if you define a cult as religion” or something, I don’t remember the specifics, so even to this day I didn’t think of it as a cult.
Oh, that had to have been hard when you were still a teenager. I knew a Mormon kid who was converted to Catholicism when we were in high school. When his parents found out they kicked him out of the house. They were a well known family where I lived and the community was not particularly happy when they found out he went home one day and the family had locked him out of the house.
Had a friend I walked to school with every day who Mormon. She was naive and asked strange questions. I grew up non-religious until my father converted to Christianity in my teens. His church expected us, his 3 daughters, to just suddenly be Christians and obey all new sets of rules. I'm grateful he wasn't naive and realized he would have alienated us and we would have gone no contact if he had expected us to do what his friends wanted. My Mormon friend wanted the tea on what happened at our church every Monday morning. 😅 We wore whatever we wanted to church, listened to our own music, wore makeup, dated boys at school, joined dad at church if we wanted to offer him support because they helped him quit smoking and a support system his teenage daughters couldn't be and frankly weren't ashamed to be normal. I found it a little strange how she was so entertained by our lives. As though speaking up for ourselves in church was the craziest shit she had ever heard. She couldn't believe my dad didn't come down on us. It's not like we were antagonistic or disrespectful to our father. We obeyed the rules he always had. We did our chores, we did our homework, we all took turns making dinner, we got along well ( mostly, we're sisters not saints.) We just didn't suddenly become Christians just because the church felt we should be too after our father became one. Anyway, she married and divorced within a year after high school. Stayed with us because her family wouldn't take her back. She said she married to get out but things were even worse married. She ended up going to college and living her life. She credited us with much more than we actually did for her.
I am a current member but not too surprised that some people think of it as a cult. While I've never had anyone personally say that to me I've heard stories of that happening to others. I respect those who have decided to leave it but I also agree we're not a cult, since no one is forced to do anything in the temple that they don't want to do.
Here in the Philippines, we have "Iglesia ni Cristo" which basically means "Church of Christ". It's the largest Christian group in the country, and it's technically not a cult, but it has all the makings of one. I remember that my uncle was a devout believer of this church while my aunt is a Roman Catholic. My uncle managed to get their three kids to join while he couldn't do get my aunt to. Even though he's a devout believer, and that he donates to the church generously, he still is mocked by their fellow members, and says shit like their family will not be "saved", and that he isn't a real member. (basically shaming tactic) My grandma's brother was also a devout believer. One day, I got curious and asked him how their whole salvation thing works, and he responded that if you believe in their church, you are automatically saved (by making donations, being obedient, and praying of course.) I then asked him how about good people that aren't believers of INC, and he replied with "it's good that they're good, but they will not be saved. I asked him, how about murderers and thieves, as well as scummy corrupt politicians that believed in their religion, and he said that they would be saved. This personally made me hate INC honestly, and could not help but think that maybe other religions behave the same way, just much more subtle. P.S. They also prohibit the celebration of Christmas (They believe that Christ is not a god, and that he is only the son of god) And they also don't allow the consumption of blood. (Blood = Dirty) P.P.S. ALSO, if you are a member, and you have, let's say, a dying child that badly needs a blood transfusion, better say your goodbyes because faith is much more important than your child. If you decide otherwise, then get ready to be shamed to excommunication. INC Propaganda Vid: www.reddit.com/r/exIglesiaNiCristo/comments/9j2wi0/the_inc_is_a_mafia_of_manalo_extremists/ INC Propaganda Cringe (Worshipping Eduardo Manalo their leader) www.reddit.com/r/exIglesiaNiCristo/comments/1bd5mvr/inc_logic_to_be_saved_the_entire_human_race/
Member here. Planning to leave once I become financially independent, but I don't think it's a cult tbh. It only exhibits a cult-like appearance because of extreme devotees who doesn't have a community outside the church. The church becomes their sole community and so they become detached from those outside. Now regarding the videos: First video was made by ministers as a birthday greeting to the executive minister. It's to be expected that they're composed of loyalists and that the message of their video is all about loyalty. A Catholic bishop also has the same loyalty towards the Pope even though it isn't expressed as often. Second video was just cringe tho. It's kinda ironic since (afaik) there's no verse in the Bible telling the people to admire the appointed leader. There are teachings about following their orders, but that's about it. It gets even more weird when you learn that some members have a picture of the executive minister at their homes. But then again, the pope also receives the same amount of fame so I guess it's fair. Honestly, if you look closely at the extreme devotees of the Catholic church, they also exhibit cult-like behaviors. It's especially obvious during the parade of Black Nazareth or when you see those who nail themselves to a cross (cuz Jesus is based apparently). Catholicism is just more diluted because it's old and popular. PS blood transfusion isn't prohibited
@@astral6749 yeah, i get that it isn't a cult technically but still, ya know? Also, you're very much right about the parallels with the Pope and the Catholic church, which is the main reason why I'm extremely weary of religion now to the point of actually being atheistic. I do believe that for some, religion provides a community where anyone can belong to, and that the majority of them promotes a "do good and be good" attitude. It's just that, that image is ruined for me, and that religion really is not for everyone.
@@TheRealDuckyDuck Exactly. This is also why I really appreciate religions like Shinto which are not as intrusive nor controversial compared to most religions that originated from the west.
I wasn't in a religious cult, but here's my story anyways. When I was 13, I had just come out as LGBT and was struggling with identity and community while being in the bible belt. I discovered this organization that promotes inclusivity and friendliness to folks of my identity. That summer I went to their camp, about 5 hours away. I fell in love with the scenery, the people. I felt included. When I got home I felt so on top of the world that I came out to my mom, the only person who didn't know yet - and was kicked out. So, I spent the next several years working hard for this organization; partly to build my community more and partly to keep myself busy. In 2019, 7 years later, they made some statements about me wishing to date outside of the organization. They reminded me that they were all I had, and that they know me better than anyone else will. I decided to leave shortly after and was disowned / ostracized from anyone I had known there. I still have trouble making friends and trusting that they don't have alternative motives
Cults are more than just religious. There are personality cults, commercial cults, and community based cults like the one you were in. I am so sorry you had to go through that. I hope that you are in a much better place.
They took horrible advantage of a vulnerable you That's the peak definition of a cult. I am terribly sorry for your past, but am happy you recognized that, and can work to be who you are today While I may not know you, I fully support you in your journey and hope you will build from that
@@creepyflamewolf5199 Thank you so much. I have learned and grown so much in the past few years and thankfully now have the most amazing chosen family a guy could ask for. I'm learning how to open up about my experience and share in hopes that other folks won't fall trap to the same thing I did. It's still hard, but I see that I have support now in ways I never did - and that makes a difference.
My partner was raised in a cult. It was a series off coincidences that led him to be able to escape. He didn't even know it was a cult until recently when I asked him more about the "church" he went to as a kid. (For anyone curious: INC)
Yeah no same, when I went to the temple, I was fully clothed the whole time Like, SA is definitely a thing, but “blessing privates” has never been a thing unless you’re FLDS 😬
@@just_ema5950never? I'm pretty sure it was... Don't they bless your loins to be fruitful and multiply or whatever? Even the comment above says it isn't "anymore" meaning that yes it used to.
Bruhhh I’ve been in 3 types of cults A Christian cult A martial arts cult And BUSINESS SCAMS/cults It’s so convoluted, and I don’t know how to fully separate myself. It’s DISGUSTING OUT HERE 🤮
I had a long, exhausting discussion with my religions a-class teacher in high achool about Mormonism being a cult. I used the materials and sources on how to detect a cult (ie denying autonomy of body, psyche, spirituality and emotions; us versus them mentality; ostrasizing former members and those who "don't do as well"). She had a VERY bad hissy fit deapite neither her nir her family being a mormon at all - she just hated the idea that pritestant religions could form cults
I was at a Christian church for a little awhile while homeless and after going there for a year they got me to live with one of the members who went to a nightly bible study with the church and after living with her she started to push for me to go with them. I wasn't sure if I would fit in considering I'm not really a pray every night before I sleep, cuss just a little and pretty into Harry Potter and other things that Christians don't like. Eventually she convinced me, after going for awhile they convinced me to read their personal bible.... This was everything God would be against. It seemed more of an instruction manual on how to please the cult, from giving them all of your financial information to your personal information such as SSI and such. After reading it and taking a picture of all of it I went to my roommate to ask her if she's done any of this, how long she has been involved and does she know this is a cult. She broke down. Apparently she had her suspicions but didn't want to leave because a member of that after church group raped her and she was threatened into it. I told her she needs to leave because im leaving and this is not right. Over the weekend I managed to get her in touch with some of her family, she signed the lease over to me and in two months she was out. I sold the house to a coworker of mine and I dipped to Austin TX, which was 10 hours away. Drove the whole way and never looked back. I don't know what they're doing now and I don't care. I have pictures of the cult bible manual printed out and stapled in my private information safe at home. They tried to reach out to me a couple times and I blocked them and changed my number. The girl is doing ok and currently she's a children's therapist. We met up a couple months ago and talk daily, she luckily didn't give them anything important but she did have to change her phone number after they harassed her for two months. I'm still a Christian and am a member of a youth group at my local church. She has strayed away from religion as a whole, which I don't blame her at all. I started going to church a year after processing all of that and getting settled in my current home. It's been 7 years since then and the church in completely abandoned, me and the girl plan on visiting in the summer for some closure.
Okay, I used to be part of the LDS church and been to a few of the Temples, but some of what is mentioned sounds fishy because I never experienced it. So I'm guessing they've been to a sect of the church that split apart from the main church many years which give the main church a bad rep. But the baptism of the dead was my favorite part back when I was a member. Even got to be the one who dunk someone under the water.
Finally someone who isn’t biased just becouse they left. Obviously the church has problems but a lot of these storys sound absolutely insane. Thanks for being honest
I still am a member of that church, and for a while I was even asked if I wanted to serve as a temple worker. Which I did for a few years. And I can tell you, that "being naked" story is intentionally omitting details, and trying to make it sound much worse than it really is. If you'd prefer not to hear any more about this, that's fine. But if you (or anyone else) want to hear an explanation, here you go: The part that poster described is called the "initiatory ordinance." A worker will place hands on the head of the person receiving it, and will speak the words that are meant to describe blessings being promised to you. (For the record, this part doesn't have any commitments for the recipient to make.) A lot of these blessings refer to different parts of the body, symbolically; without going into direct quotations, I can give a few examples, like the head being symbolic of intellect, shoulders symbolizing the ability to bear burdens, or eyes being able to see clearly (in a metaphorical as well as literal sense). Now, it used to be that for this ordinance, the recipient would wear... essentially, it looks like a large poncho (yes, even I found that weird), and it was called a shield. And that's because in the distant past, the worker performing the ordinance would place fingertips over the general area of the part being described. This "shield" clothing was meant to be loose-fitting enough that there wouldn't be any actual touching. The person was never naked, and even though this "shield" was still open on the sides, it still draped over the body a lot like a robe, and the person would also be wearing underwear or short pants underneath. There would never be skin-to-skin contact below the neck. Also very importantly: only men would officiate for men receiving this ordinance; and only women would officiate for women receiving the ordinance. There are completely separate areas in the building for the men and women in this practice; it's meant to be safe and private for every person receiving this. Still, the situation admittedly wasn't the most comfortable for the person receiving, or the person officiating. In more recent decades, this ceremony has adapted in a few ways. By the time I was 19 and I went through this for myself, there was no touching, even symbolically; the officiator would place his hands on my head, and leave them there, even while describing blessings that symbolically corresponded to different areas of the body, like I mentioned earlier. And just a few years later than that, the whole church discontinued use of those "shield" clothes; you would just wear regular clothing, even for that ordinance; and again, the officiator would only lay hands on top of you head, and nowhere else. I think most people prefer it this way. But I repeat, being naked was never part of the situation. Believe me, if things going on in these temples were as bad as that poster makes them out to be, I would have no part in it, and I would be publicly decrying it. I speak up if I have a problem with general practices, or individual people's behaviour. (And, for the record, that is something a cult will never let its members get away with. But I stand up to peers, and even to my leaders, if I believe they are doing something that harms others. I still haven't been kicked out for that.) Anyway, I know a lot of what happens in a temple seems weird or disorienting, if it's not something you feel you identify with. But that's ok. Nobody is being forced, and nobody should feel obligated to participate in things if it makes them uncomfortable. (And yes... I think a lot of Mormon parents need to understand that better, rather than pressuring their young adult children into things they're not on-board with. I think my brother would have been much happier if our parents had let him just pass on all of this stuff.) Well, hey, at least you have some positive memories to hold onto. I hope those are comforting in some way, and that life keeps being happy for you.
@@LamanKnight I'm also a member and have been to the temple. Like a couple of the people in the story, I knew nothing going in. I've been a member since I was 9 and first went to the temple when I was 20 and I was a little bit shocked at the rituals in the process. Not that any of them were BAD per-se... but some parts just don't carry the same vibe that church practices do. Suddenly you're wearing hats and things. At one point there was a prayer circle. I didn't expect the movie either but.... I just didn't expect a movie at all. Nothing bad... just odd... or things that felt like they might be a part of other church practices but not ours. I can verify what you said about the initiatory ordinance. No nakedness, not even just garments. I put on my temple dress immediately after I got my garments and then went through the rest of the thing. No weird touching or anything like that. I mean as stated I was already jarred so if it had gone down that path I would have been OUT.
I always had the feeling something was off when my mom joined her new church but i became convinced of it when she forced me to join the youth group, basically there would be meetings every saturday where non-members would be divided into groups with one or two members as a guide, and they would have a weekly theme you would discuss in the group, the members would use this to assess if you were worthy of joining the youth group and if you were they would choose you to go to a weekend spiritual retreat they did as an initiation for new members that they were extremely secretly about and just referred to as The Experience, non-members werent allowed to know what it was about. It was basically just a weekend long violation of the geneva conventions. We were kept blindfolded for hours, sleep deprived, weren't allowed to know what time it was or even Where we were, all the doors and gates were locked, had everything that wasn't clothes and basic toiletries taken away for the weekend, it legitimately felt like being held hostage after that, youth group members were treated as free labour for whatever the church felt like it (most of us were between 13 and 17 btw so Child Labour at that) the self serving bastard who made up that whole recruitment and brainwashing system died alone in an ICU from c0v1d unable to do anything for himself which always brings me joy and comfort
I had been raised in a church that handled snakes and "fell out in the spirit" often. Being 6 i thought that snakes must be really cool if the pastor man was always handling them in church, so I got a snake plushy and brought it in to the church for my Sunday school. I had the plushy ripped away from me and I was scolded about "Bringing the Devi" into the church. I started questioning the doctrines almost instantly and was physically beaten over it at the house i grew up in...... while being taught to use my body (yes, in that way) to bring people in to the church. When I did become promiscuous but acted for my self and not bringing people into the church the people in charge of caring for me threatened to once again kick me out. I finally called their bluff, ended locked out for a night which I took as "Okay, this really is an unhealthy situation" and I began to run away at 13. I managed to stay away from the house and the church for the next 5 years when i had to make some personal appearances to get my items that were being held hostage, pretended to come back to the faith for a week while strategically moving every thing I could grab of mine and run to a friends couch. I kept up the couch surfing for the next 3 years and found my spouse when i was 21. I am still recovering from everything that happened including the fact that I actually believed being "touched" (in those ways) was a "holy thing". I was way too young. I ended up having to let go of every thing, biological family, friends, the only supports I had. Still... I got my self out.... not a lot of other people can get out of the "Children of God" .
Thought that sounded like the CoG/FI when you brought up the “recruitment” methods they made you carry out. They called that “Flirty Fishing.” Source of some of the most horrifying cult stories I’ve ever heard.
"It works for some, not for others." This. I'm VERY devoted to Judaism and the Jewish people. However, I'm also apatheist, and don't see the logic in an afterlife. I'm content to see my body return to the big cycle of life and death. If Ha'Shem exists, cool, but it won't affect how I live.
@@CSmith-tn8nv its literally the difference between someone who doesn't know and someone who doesn't care, i guess practically that just means one maybe open to swaying with reason or evidence etc the other ....... well.... just doesn't care. from my personal experience it tends to be used more by people who identify with the community, culture or ideology but dont really believe in the more magical or mystical aspects of a religion. of course i cant speak for the OP in that regard, just my own observations. there are many flavour of atheists out there, i tend to describe myself as an "Orwellian atheist" in reference to a line in one of George Orwell's novels: “He was an embittered atheist, the sort of atheist who does not so much disbelieve in God as personally dislike Him" :)
Here's the thing, as a Christian, it infuriates me to no end when I hear stuff about this. Because I follow God, and I have been raised to believe that he is the god of love, second chances, forgiveness and redemption. But my so called "brothers and sisters of Christ" don't even try to follow our teachings, and instead use it as an end to means. (For money, power, or even sexual pleasure) It breaks my heart when I hear this, because I just can't wrap my head around how many people could see this and think it's okay. If anything, it's fucking ironic, and the way Christians are being taught is backwards now. Yes, Christians are taught to love their neighbor, yet they will abuse homosexual people, transsexual people, if someone has a different lifestyle, they will shame them for not following their cult-like day routine. I have a feeling, that most Christians these days are much like Jonah from the book of, well, Jonah. They expect Jesus to come back and be just as hateful and twisted as they are, when in reality, they would probably be no better than the romans who crucified him in the first place. Even still, after leaving my abusive mother's household, I have to mentally stop myself from thinking in my old judgmental, backwards thinking sometimes. Because I cannot judge a person's character, because I know nothing of them. Just because somebody may look like a bad person for having tie dye shirts and dyed hair, doesn't mean they worship the devil, and just because somebody else may wear a cross on their neck, doesn't mean they haven't beat their child recently for having the gall to speak up about something. This thinking has led me to make some great friends whom I still talk too often, and I am grateful to God for these simple blessings. Sorry about that rant, if you made it here, thanks, I hope you have a great day, take care.
Former Seventh-day Adventist here. For me it wasn't a "moment" but a gradual realization. It just gradually made less and less sense to me that they claim to live "by the Bible, and the Bible only," and yet they have whole libraries of books written by one Ellen G. White that you'd better believe or else. In church I heard one older man say that he can tell when someone is "in danger of leaving the truth," his words, when they start questioning what Mrs. White says. And in so-called Bible study, I asked a question about something in one of her books, and where is that found in the Bible? The facilitator anwered that "we know Mrs. White was inspired, so we don't question what she says." That's right, you are not allowed to question or disagree with anything Ellen G. White says. They don't believe in "the Bible only." They believe in the Bible as filtered through the writings of Ellen G. White.
Sounds eerily familiar. I wasn’t raised to worship Joseph Smith or Brigham Young; you just couldn’t question a single word they ever wrote or uttered. But as long as we SAY we aren’t worshipping leadership, then that’s fine.
When they required me to talk with a stranger head cultist about things I have done in privacy. I was also weirded out by chanting in groups for an hour a week.
That's not what the Jesuits taught us boys. When Adam ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, that's when everything turned to shit. If Adam had simply said no, everything would still be cool. Instead, he ate of the fruit and then made the first step into evil when he lied to God that it was all Eve's fault, as though he himself had no free will and was unable to refuse. Eve's offer.
8:34 Wouldn't that be the opposite? Wouldn't making your body weak make it easier for your soul to escape? WHY AM I TRYING TO RATIONALIZE CULT THINGS!? 😅
maybe the soul gets stronger when you work out, and they gain more force than the body, maybe that could explain it, but it is weird that the soul would get out in the first place
On Story 5 what did the father think when the Duggar family were exposed to scandal and getting their reality show canceled? I wonder if the Duggars were in a cult themselves?
The Duggars are big advocates for the Quiverfull movement, which, is a cult. They believe in things like blanket training, that you're 'raising children to be soldiers of god' and all sorts of crazy stuff. There's an excellent video on youtube called 'Growing up Quiverfull' that talks about this specific cult and their belief systems.
I think they had their own cult inside a cult. All families work little bit like a cult, just less toxic and overwhelming, but the Duggars made me appreciate my crazy dysfunctional family. Girls in that family.. heartbreaking.
They are indeed in a cult. It's called the Quiverfull Movement. It's more of an ideology than a specific denomination, but I personally would still label it a cult.
12:19 it doesn't matter the "intention", that is sexual abuse, and it seems they're doing it to children. Letting intention dictate what qualifies as abuse is how you let these people get away with such heinous acts. Even if they didn't feel any sexual attraction from performing this act, doesn't mean it isn't sexual abuse.
I want to join with the other members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the comments and respond to some of the things mentioned in the video, specifically regarding the temple. I can only speak to the temple as it is today. To my knowledge, the touching of private parts was NEVER a part of the temple. The film about Adam and Eve is a thing, and the actors who play Satan (there have been five versions of the film I'm aware of; I've seen four) get to chew the scenery more than anyone else in the film. It's probably unintentionally the most fun role to play (and watch) in the film; so I 100% understand the comment about giggling when Satan came on. Fun fact about the temple film; the church got permission from Disney to use footage from Fantasia in the first version (probably to depict the creation of the world). One post mentioned chanting; it's there, and I was uncomfortable with it for a long time. I didn't understand why, and I'm the person who really likes understanding things. This video is what finally got me to examine it. I suspect chanting is seen as weird is because it's uncommon in Western societies. But if you look at chanting from a historical perspective, or even just in other modern cultures, it's a common, ordinary practice. I would argue it is still common practice even in Western Culture, just not for religious reasons. I don't care much for them, but most sporting events I'm aware of involve chanting of some kind in support of one team or the other. From a purely logical standpoint, I can't see how chanting in a church or temple is much different from chanting in a sports arena (aside from contents), and I'm sure most people here wouldn't have much issue participating in the latter. Weird? Maybe. Bad? No. Now if we instead assume OP was bothered by the contents of the chants, and by extension, everything taught in the endowment, well, that's a bit more understandable. For the record, I have zero issues with any part of the endowment: it's essentially a very thorough explanation of our relationship with Christ, and Christ's purpose and mission. However, my first experience going through the temple was like drinking from a firehose: overwhelming and unpleasant. I definitely didn't grasp everything I was being taught or the covenants I was agreeing to, and I definitely asked myself the "is this a cult?" question when going through the first time, and for a while after that. There's a TON of information that is being crammed into about 90 minutes (an improvement from the multiple hours when they first started), and I suspect nobody prepared him for any of it. That was basically my experience, and I was raised in the church. A common flaw among members of the church is that we avoid talking about things we consider sacred, often to the point of not talking about them at all, and it's caused major problems. I think this is more a cultural thing than something ever taught as doctrine, though I don't think a lot of people understand the difference (like the whole caffeine thing). You might even compare it to another major topic members of the church hold sacred (and by extension don't talk enough about): intercourse. I'm assuming the majority of people in the comments would describe intercourse as good, necessary, great, or fantastic, so hopefully we can all at least agree on the value of it. However, if adults have only ever talked to you about marriage and NEVER about the birds and the bees, odds are you're going to be traumatized on the night of your wedding, and that will deeply stain your perception of the act. I bring this up to illustrate that while something can be good, if it's not talked about properly, or not discussed at all, it can be overwhelming, traumatic, or even harmful to someone unprepared to receive it. As a final note on temples; despite a rough introduction to the endowment, I never regret going, even if it's only because the temple is quiet and peaceful. Seriously, if one opens up near you, they have open houses before the dedication where they let the public walk through; don't miss it. It's a vastly different feeling inside a temple. But specific parts of the ordinances that happen within have been inspiring to me in many ways, and contributed directly to my personal growth. TL;DR: Context and preparation is vital to understanding and appreciating what happens in LDS temples. Regarding other comments regarding Joseph Smith, I've heard the claims about intercourse with minors and so on time and time again. I served my LDS mission in Utah, where there's a surprisingly strong anti-LDS population (must be getting sick of all the Mormons there), so I've heard it all. I've looked into it, and I've never found anything to convince me it ever happened. If anyone is curious, here are two official Church resources that, together, describe much of the endowment ceremony: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/temples/what-is-temple-endowment?lang=eng (Describes 90% of the ceremony) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/tools/temple-prayer-roll-submission?lang=eng (Describes the prayer circle not described in the first article; also the only part of the endowment where participation isn't expected).
I am lds to, and I am a little confused as to why people say chanting and movies and stuff. My experience with the temple is this: I walk in, confirm I am allowed to go in (A sllip of paper from my bishop) and go sit down in a chapel like room. Temple workers talk about things, I ddont remember what they say, but it sounded all right to me, and we go and pt on a pair of under-wear and a baggy jumpsuit. We go and do baptisms for the dead, and then do conformations for the dead. Then we leave.
@@devinjamesonjr.7688 Baptisms for the dead is just one ordinance that's performed in the temple. There are others like the endowment (which most people get before going on a mission or at least before getting sealed), and sealings (marriage) that happen in other parts of the temple. I would recommend reading what you can in the Gospel Library about the endowment, temple worship, and sealings. Most wards offer temple prep classes; I actually don't believe I took those before going through the temple myself, though I would recommend taking them. Both pages I linked in my previous comment should be helpful, and there are plenty of other articles made available to the public by the Church that discuss the other ordinances.
@devinjamesonjr.7688 They're adults talking about other things to do in the temple. (I've randomly forgotten what it's called.) I'm assuming you've only done Bathtisms. Those are a lot more simple. Sooo yeah.
The LDS signals cult in a lot of ways. I think when discussing any religion we have to remember there are subsets of people who are abusers taking advantage of others, and other true devotees who are good people. But, the bad things about Joseph Smith are true. Sorry I can’t give you citations - I will look them up and post later. But he was a con artist. The attitudes toward women are full on cultish. Secret temple rituals is cultish. Treatment of missionaries is very cult-like. The superiority complex of those in the church is a cult thing. No non-mormons in the Temple (excluded from family weddings) totally cultish. The LDS simply wrote fiction and passed it off as the word of God. Forced tithing. Male hierarchy. The busybodies who visit you in your homes, to check up on you - cult. Failure or refusal to educate (sexuality, history) cult. Use of propaganda. Denial of own historical facts - cult. Oppressing critical thinking skills. Judgment and shaming and guilt-trips - very much a cult. Agree with you about chanting. It is a group bonding thing and we see it outside of religion - sports, politics, rock concerts. The thing of it is, how often and for how long? And is it linked to divinity? Is it being forced on you? That needs to be examined.
I get the same things with Joseph Smith looking through historical records and sifting through orders and grants HELL i even went as far as to look into police records and investigations (at least the heavily limited number of them still around or weren't just "he's guilty case closed") and NOT A SINGLE ONE ever gave definitive evidence no due process ever conducted just an assumption of guilt due to "testimony" and lets us not forget testimony can be and is often wrong in fact in law it is seen as the lowest form of evidence due to you having five people and every single one of them can say something different it such wild manners it is baffling hell there have been cases of robbery where the guys face was visible to dozens of people and FOUR different races were accounted amongst the testimony taken from witnesses.
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. I never really questioned them, not until i was 15. I was diagnosed with schizophrenia, and apparently my hallucinations were the devil trying to get me or something. All of my friends, instantly shunned me. My kinda secret jw girlfriend, she dumped ke while i was in the phych ward gwtting treatment for the first time. I had no idea what was happening to me, and they tossed me aside. What's worse is they tried to get my mum to stop having contact with me. Her 15 year old child. That's when I knew. There was so much more that i noticed after the fact. Im just grateful it happened.
My 9th Trump rally i had a moment of clarity and realized i was letting Trump burn my money, I had given up all the relationships I had with my loved ones for him, and and after nearly a decade of supporting him my life is way worse off than before I ever heard of him.
Ever wonder why his tactics are similar to a infamous Austrian painter with an iconic mustache? But seriously it's scarily similar.. Look up how the "painter" gained such a following.
I had a run in recently with a guy who was fishing for information from me about where I had gone to school and stuff and then started talking about his god and if i wanted to go to heaven. I spooked him by turning the tables on him and speaking in the same kind of calming, religious tone I've had people use on me but instead of preaching about gods i told him about the Void. A state of non being where you will cease to exist in every concept. How the Void does not discriminate or punish, it welcomes everyone, the guilty and innocent equally. As i kept describing he finally turned away from me and was like "i have to go this way now goodbye" and just hustled away.
I grew up Mormon, and I'm not surprised with how many stories there were from other ex Mormons. There's not much I can say that wasn't in this video, but there's probably something if I think about it
The person going from a homeless shelter to getting their own apartment is huge.... just having physical address that isnt a church or a homeless shelter is HUGE when trying to actually get employment some where. If you dont know... If you are filling out and application and either dont put an address or put a shelter/church's address in and the employer decides to look up the address or notices no address, they will just straight up throw out your application assuming things about you, but also not giving you a chance to improve your situation...
My wife is part of the Latter-Day Saints church and she joined a woman's club when we first moved into our new home and she started going to a different church... didn't last long. The women in that group were trying to convince them all that they needed to drop any non-members and only marry within that church. Taylor didn't go to another meeting and got so uncomfortable that she started driving 2 hours every Sunday to stay with the church she was originally at... I attended on event with her as a non-member and they were all pretty rude to me. I think there was judgement about me being military aswell. The original church were all fantastic, I have no issues attending an event with her as a non-member.
I was born and raised in a fundamentalist Mormon cult. I cant actually pinpoint when i realized it. It has been a gradual process, and even after ten years of not attending church, i am still seeing deeper layers of programming and control. What ended up taking me out of it was that my brother and i (doing what they told us to do, think about things and know the truth for ourselves) started having discussions in our late teens about religious ideas we had been taught. These would often get heated, nearly violent, but it added up to me deciding at 25 that i needed to sort out these beliefs and really make sense of it all. I took up martial arts, which (long story short) eventually led me to study Tai Chi and Taoist meditation, and the more i practice those, the deeper i see through the layers of cults that make up our society. The term "functional cult" is a good one. The great religions are all functional cults. All popular political parties are functional cults, as are successful businesses. Governments are cults. The question is not "are you in a cult", because unless you are a bushman, truly living wild in nature, the only question that matters is which cults you include yourself in and what are the rules they play by? This is the case because the goal of every cult is to concentrate the power of many people into the hands of a single leader. Any group who's practices require that you give up your choice in any degree without some kind of direct way of returning equal value back to (if that is even possible) is a cult designed to enslave. I have yet to encounter any legal or religious group that doesnt display some kind of belief in giving away your autonomy in the form of obodience. *With sticky sweet sarcasm* For your own protection of course, because daddy, or mommy, or god, or whoever we believe is smarter or stronger than we ourselves are, knows best for us than we ourselves do. The shitty thing is that on extrememly rare occasions, we may encounter an individual capable of perceiving us with greater clarity than we are able to perceive ourselves from our inside perspective, and it is even more rare that we are in a state of being that allows us to truly benefit from such sages. Also, there are many who pretend to such knowledge, and pretending is quite possibly the first skill developed by consciousness. We are all very good at pretending. So far, me and two of my brothers are the only ones from our family to leave the cult though we still live local. My oldest sister is on the path out, and even my mom has started questioning the religion a little, which honestly surprises me the more i deprogram myself. It seems like if a person gets married in this cult, the likelihood of them ever leaving just dropped like a rocket falling into a star. If they do leave, it will only be because shit is exploding and falling apart.
This saddens me… As a Christian myself I can’t help but feel frustrated that cults like these taint the good news of Christ like this even though I have some beliefs most do not agree with.
Yeah another day I got followed at a public park by a christian speaking on a mic that I was dead and needed god, because I politely refused a flyer and even said "give that to someone who wants it" I have nothing to do with christianity or want to, if I picked that flyer up it would go straight to the trash bin just a few meters away
i mean, you rejected what...like 1500 other gods throughout history? How do you think lord oonga bunga feels that you don't love him and his gifts of fire and beans?
I genuinely hope you aren't calling racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. "some beliefs." I was raised Roman Catholic and it was drilled into me at a young age that any person using god as an excuse to shame or hate others was not following God's will. Aight that's all.
Wow, ex Mormon here and it’s kind of hilarious to hear 3X Mormons in a row. Talk about leaving a cult. I left four years ago and I’ve never been happier.
As an LDS (mormon) member, the stories here seem so alien. The area i’m in is so welcoming, non- judgmental and constantly talks about how you have your freedom of choice, and how being in the church should be something you WANT to do and it should relieve you of any heavy things you carry. It’s all about love. All these other stories sound like questionable churches that branch off the main LDS church or just some particularly horrible area. I really hope all these stories in the video have found peace and happiness.
I grew up in the LDS (Mormon) church. I've had some amazing and some terrible experiences in the Church. I didn't lose faith in the teachings. What I lost faith in was the people. My father had several affairs but my mom was blamed for divorcing him. A Bishop actually screamed at me for my mother's bad attitude. So many of the members are hypocrites. I just couldn't stand it anymore. I now happily live as a Jack-Mormon. Basically I still believe and live by many of the teachings but I refuse to step foot into a Church ever again. I try and be a good person and treat everyone like I want to be treated.
I have pretty much the opposite experience. When expressing doubts or the lack of belief, people always jump to the line "the people aren't perfect, but the church is!" But from my point of view they had it backwards. Most mormons are good people, committed to a horrible organization masquerading as a church that may make them do bad things
Not an actual cult, at least I don’t think so, but I was really young so who knows. It was a very well known Christian school, grades K to 12, that I was forced to attend for one year-5th grade-just because my brother wanted to go to high school there. Some of the scariest religious people I have ever met. Dresses had to be down to your ankles with no cleavage or shoulders showing. Shoes were flats, no sandals and no straps. Sneakers were allowed for P. E. only. You and your peers went to the bathroom at the same time and were monitored by your teacher. If you spent more than the allotted time in the bathroom, you got in trouble. Every single subject was slanted to discuss the Bible. I had a science report on the T-Rex that was docked points every single time I “made a false claim” about the dinosaur. And I’ll never forget getting the paper back and seeing the question “where does the Bible say this?” written over every single scientific fact. Math class didn’t exist. History class was only about the Biblical locations and individual (though heavily kid-edited) people’s stories. We attended church on Monday mornings (there is a church on the campus) till lunch time. And if you got in trouble during church you weren’t allowed to eat. Any kind of “girly” stuff, like makeup, jewelry, fashion magazines, that was deemed “immodest” was confiscated and the entire female population of the class was taken to an empty room and forced to sit through a degrading, accusatory lecture about how it was not the woman’s place to pick her own appearance, how objects like nice clothes and jewelry and cute shoes would tempt the men and if they hurt us it was our fault, how a woman’s appearance was decided on by her husband and how it was sinful to disobey what your man wanted. If you had special needs that were not physical, then you did not have special needs you were just “a difficult child” who needed stronger discipline than your peers. Girls had to wear their dresses during P.E. And if you got it dirty or ripped or anything you got in trouble. Getting “in trouble” was either a paddling or some kind of punishment that isolated you. For example, I spent too long in the bathroom and was shunned for the remainder of that class period. I stayed in the room, at my desk, but I was completely ignored by the teacher and all my peers. At the end of the class, my teacher walked up to me, smiled, and said “you missed last class period, this affects your participation grade.” I was forcefully “saved”. This was the incident where I remember I just shut down. Now, I was raised a Christian. Did the church on Sunday and Sunday School classes thing too. Also Bible Camp in summer. My parents, however, had always told me that I shouldn’t call myself “saved” until I understood my religion and felt “moved by God” to come to him. Well, 5th grade me did not understand my religion to my satisfaction yet so I did not consider myself saved yet. But I did believe I would get there. So about halfway into my 5th grade year we had our mandatory Monday church service and the pastor told everyone to close their eyes and requested that the students who were saved raised their hands. I did not raise mine. Upon returning to the classroom, my teacher pulled me aside and told me I could not return to class because we needed to talk. What followed was an hr and 1/2 of standing in the hall by the classroom doorway with the door closed, getting alternately terrified and bullied into getting saved. I felt so pressured to do as I was told it was scary. My teacher had made me miss lunch, a bathroom break, and two class periods by the time I just said the prayer to shut her up and get permission to use the bathroom. Bathroom permission was denied and instead she walked me back into the classroom where every single student hugged me and welcomed me into the kingdom. Nothing ever felt so hollow, so unwanted, so anti-Christian to me as that experience. It felt wrong and very cult-like. I was deeply uncomfortable. That was the day I decided I was not returning to the school the next year.
Oh yeeeeahhh I forgot about how you need to pay as a mormon until story 16. It’s called your “tithing” and its supposed to help the church or something. You have to pay like ten percent of whatever you made that week to them or sum. I never did that because they never did anything with the church despite everyone saying it’s “helping” the church.
They'll also try and get you into byu, Brigham young university. Insanely expensive and pretty much entirely in service of the faith. You could grow up to be a window washer for em if you try hard enough.
@@kevinthefox I'm lds, and yes we do tithing, (Not going into to it because it'll just be pointless) but it's not like they try to get you into byu. Also, prices for college are insanely high anyways.
Funny how "submitting to the Holy Spirit" so often includes the women having to sleep with the leader. 🤔 Also, Mike Rinder describes life in the Sea Org in his book. It's amazing, and not in a good way.
That one that wanted him to intentionally get sick and weak sounded like they were trying to set him up to become some sort of victim and didn't want him to be strong enough to fight back. Not sure i want to know what they had planned for him.
I went to a Baptist church in the 80's. I think it was 82 that had Halloween on Sunday. The preacher had one of those come to Church in your costume and best one gets a prize type contests. We all thought it would be great. As a kid I couldn't imagine how anything could go wrong on this one. Some of the teenage kids were wearing more creative costumes that looked like grotesque monsters from some kind of horror movie. It was no more than a couple dozen or so who were actually doing this. The preacher railed at them. At first I agreed with him. But then he went on to conflate it to all of us. We were all doing this. Of course he had his son dressed up as Moses with the ten commandments. Not a bad costume by any means. It was not the most creative one there but it was decent. I was put off by this because my costume was not a demon but he said it was. We were all dressed up as little demons. One boy had a superman costume. Superman is a demon? E.T. is a demon? Batman is a demon? There was even a girl in an angel costume. Pretty sure this preacher was blaspheming the holy spirit by calling her a demon. Up until that day his church had a big following. In a fit of rage he gave the trophy to his son and continued his deluded rant. After that day his cult following was much smaller. He was detached from reality until the day he died. But I will never forget that biased deluded tirade of his. That was not the only thing that clued me in that this religion was a cult but it was definitely the most immediately obvious clue. I now believe in reincarnation. And I believe that you should avoid these "religious" groups.
That's a movie stereotype. I'm gonna paint you a picture so bare with me. A friend invited you and you come coz maybe you're bored or lonely and wanna have fun anyways to went with him and its a church so setting achieved. Now it's all too cheerful or very sad and the clear thing is it's gonna be intense like its either too happy or too sad. There's gonna be a gorgeous girl or boy there, it's an obvious bait and it works. Then someone will approach you, always there's a guru esq that approaches you and what you'll notice is they are usually very touchy like intimate touchy and if you are new to all that its gonna weird you out or if you swing that way you'll feel odd about it moving on. Then i hope you come back and you did coz interested the next one is gonna be normal, the next one is normal as well and then the nature retreat now this is the good luck stage no way out and they got you and this is the horror scene you will see odd behaviour like new faces so on and its gonna be a few days and its gonna be hiking so you are tired and thats what they want coz its easier to nuke someone whose just wanna end the day and sleep. Then its gonna be a sequence of trippy things and usually its gonna have the obvious things like intimacy, very intimate touchy feely and now you are stuck to participate and hopefully you have the nerve to say no in the middle of nowhere like say no and they'll get upset so thats it good luck.
Not me, but my niece. She married into it. But realized her mistake when they were talking about an arranged marriage for her newborn daughter. With a kid who was already 11 years old. She took her daughter and fled in the middle of the night. Our family had to hide them both for years. They sent thugs trying to find them on two separate occasions, and hired a private investigator - who reported nothing once he learned why they wanted her found. The PI already knew they were skeezy, but didn't know the half of it.
you should do one about piercers/tattoo artists' worst experiences at their first shop. almost every single artist i know (and, even myself included) have very interesting/terrible experiences working for their first shop.
13:48 the complete opposite to this is when you have no obligations to attend a religious ceremony and still decide to be there and disrespectful. I’m really, really sorry, but I need to vent because I haven’t told this to anyone! I have a similar experience to this, but it’s a completely different perspective, from someone who is a devout Christian and also has sensory overload issues. I went to a Catholic girl school, and sometimes, when we were approaching easter or Christmas there was mass. Now, you HAD to go to the Chapel, that was obligatory, but you didn’t have to pray or participate in the celebration. If you were atheist or Muslim or any else, you could just go to the other rooms and chat with your friends. Now, what really bothered me was the girls who weren’t Christian but still decided they wanted to participate. That’s okay, wanting to learn about another religion is totally alright, but the problem was that they weren’t respectful about it. Once, at an easter celebration, I was trying to pray because, yk, God is good and he gave me so many opportunities (I’m trans, so the fact that there was a Christian *girl* school that was willing to accept me as a woman was a huge blessing), but the girls behind kept whispering and giggling, and I turned to them and I whispered “hey could you be quiet? You know I have sensory problems, and plus it’s mass-“ but they cut me off and *very loudly* replied “no, we are telling each other a story!!!” Like, they could have gone to the other room, they had no obligations to attend the ceremony, but they still decided to be *speak during the moment of silence so the others could pray!* Anyway, great video, keep up the good work 👍
I think it's important to state that not all christians are like that. I used to be one, I went to church regularly and it was full of the most loving, accepting, and kind people I've ever met.
@@devinjamesonjr.7688You're actually forbidden to even call it "LDS". The edict passed down from the billionaire leaders is that it must always be referred to, long form, as "The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints" and absolutely nothing else.
@@chadvanderlinden9548not forbidden at all! And Russell M Nelson is worth about $3 million, most of which he earned as a renowned heart surgeon. Lie to yourself if you want, but not to others.
@@chadvanderlinden9548you can also just say the church of Jesus Christ and that is completely fine. I also think saying the whole thing is a bit tedious but I also understand wanting people to know that we are a Christ centered church
@@elizabethharris1851Oh indeed? Well, you know more about your cult than I do, so I'll defer to you. The name is still kind of presumptuous, isn't it? I mean, I am aware of a LOT of other churches that place top emphasis on jesus christ, so yours can simply not be THE church of jesus christ now can it? Good day, lost soul.
I was a part of a spiritualist group that was a fun, lighthearted place where we discussed intuition, spiritual and metaphysical topics, etc. The moment I realized the spiritualist church I took psychic development classes in was a cult: They had an event in the fall of 2015 where they brought in people that claimed they were channeling what are called ‘Ascended Masters’. Those are figures like Jesus and Buddha that brought teachings to the planet to raise consciousness. The leadership of the church brought in these weird people that felt off. One of them had a Jim Jones vibe and pretended he was a figure called Master Katumi. He introduced himself and immediately jumped into trying to sell us land in the middle of nowhere Oregon. That was the first of a handful of red flags. What confused me is that I trusted a friend that was part of be leadership of the church. She’s in her 70s, so I think she was being bamboozled of course and wasn’t fully aware of the things taking place. The second red flag that made myself and 4 of my friends leave is when they brought in a guy pretending to channel Jesus Christ. He looked like a druggie hippy. They did a seance event I attended before bolting out of their where they tried to channel messages through the Jesus imposter for people attending the seance. Turns out the Katumi Jim Jones wannabe was trying to gather women very subtly so that the could be his wives. I learned that long after my friends and I left. The church fell apart about 5 months later.
I'm pretty sure my high school was a cult marked as an outdoors boarding school for rich/troubled/inner city kids. i went for a year and after that year the school lost funding and shut down so I had to go somewhere else.
Isn't there a documentary about that place on Netflix? I'm pretty sure I saw a preview for it a few months ago. If that's the place you went, it sounds like you dodged a bullet by not getting stuck there for too long.
Im really glad to see a lot of posts about LDS Mormons here. Ive been struggling with leaving them because my family has been really deeply sucked into it but Ive been hurt and made ashamed of myself a lot at the hands of these “church leaders” who blame it all on me and tell me its because my lack of faith that they hurt and shame me.
You are not at fault for not wanting to be verbally abused. Having faith isn't meant to be a prison for suffering. You are fine and need not feel guilty in the least.
When I was studying to be a teacher, I did a placement at a non-denominational, Christian primary school that was 100% a cult. Australia has a national curriculum that all schools are *supposed* to follow. This school followed it alright, "the government wants us to teach you about evolution, but it's evil and not true, the scientists are lying to you" very clearly just hitting on the points of the lessons just enough to technically follow the curriculum. That was bad enough, but then they turned to me and were like "Okay, your turn to brainwash the 10 year olds into thinking everyone outside this school is lying to them." Needless to say, I declined and failed the placement.
Ex-mormon here. Not about that. I wanted to learn to meditate for my anxiety. I went to a class with guided meditation. I attended for a few weeks and it was different but okay. Then one day I went and the president of the organization was there with her husband. I looked into her eyes when we were introduced. Her soul was dead. Her husband was cheerfully talking about their compound in the southern part of the state and how it was on a ton of ley lines. Huge red flags. I stayed for the meditation so they wouldn’t suspect anything. The meditation itself was very well done, but emphasized relaxing and following the guidance of the leader. I smiled, said I’d be there for next time, and left. Never went back. They were a cult. 100%.
13:34 This. This is one of the issues you get with religions, the "it's good for me so it MUST be good for everyone else" mentality. They seem to forget that its supposed to be a choice, and if that choice is forced then it doesn't do nearly as much good. Over zealous church members can do more harm than good, all with the "best" intentions, when they forget that.
I found out that the books written by my pastor were written by ghostwriters, he gave financial advice (that he claimed was divinely inspired) to members who then ended up as much as half a million dollars in debt, he lied to the news about the abuses of church volunteers, and that he fired the whole family that ran our cafe (it was a megachurch) so that he could put his son in charge of it instead. He got the fancy jeep he drove around because a traveling preacher who was a friend of his came to my congregation and bullied us into getting the pastor a "love gift", the jeep. When I got mad and told my parents about (some) of my concerns, they chastised me for "sowing division in the church". If you questioned the pastors you were conversing with the devil.
LDS Mormon myself and ngl the stuff i've heard about members in Utah has been pretty sickening at times, so im not very surprised and it is very sad to see ppl taking advantage of anything for any bad reason....that and ppl confusing us with the "fundamentalist mormons" who are members who were excommunicated for various reason (be very careful with them) *Story 9 : the "blessing" thing isn't supposed to exist, its very much someone to taking advantage of others faith !*
Back in the 90s some of the elders came to my house and seriously told me that I could no longer practice piano as it was taking my time away from the door to door work. That was it for me. So glad I woke up quickly!
Ex Mormon here.... I moved away from the church that I was baptized in... thousands upon thousands of miles away.... it took them about a year before they found my house and started asking if sister (my maiden last name) was here.... each time my husband tells them there is no one here by that name and closes the door on them... then MORE RECENTLY I got an invitation from the local chapter for a mixer with the SINGLES WARD.... im married.... but my husband never has... nor ever will be mormon...
Went to a fundamentalist non denom church in high school after my first true existential crisis. They all seemed so sweet and welcoming. Cut to 1. The time the youth leader called her dad the pastor to do an exorcism on a teenage girl alone in the basement and told us all not to tell anyone, the same youth leader telling me my tics were signs of demonic possession and finally cornering me with a bunch of my peers (humiliating) to intervene on my gayness which I was vehemently trying to "fix" at the time, so the fact that they still knew was a big indication that I couldn't "fix" it, and they had me sobbing because they told me I was gay because of my mom's morbid alcoholism. Awful. Just awful.
Christian here. Jesus didn't force belief on anyone. He even turned away believers who weren't believing for the right reasons. Cult's do not follow Christ.
I realized I was in a cult as a child at age 14. I grew up in a religious family of African descent, Umbandist; my grandmother was the head of the religion (here we call her yalorixá) long before I was born. There was a time when I was younger that I couldn't even participate in the meetings and rituals. Despite being born into the religion with a grandmother who was a leader in it, I was never properly taught about the dogmas and rituals, but it was always expected that I would know everything. At 14, my grandmother was inducing me to be possessed by entities, and I had always expressed to her how much I was afraid of this because I understood that the orixás and entities were very dangerous and powerful to deal with and that I wasn't sure if it was something I wanted to be a part of. And there she was, inducing me to become incorporated with the entities. This type of thing is very heavy for a child to understand and deal with. She would get mad at me when I didn't want to participate because I had school the next day and was very tired. All my life I've seen people come and go from my grandmother's temple thousands of times. They would enter the temple, become her disciples, do very heavy rituals in a short space of time, and then leave the temple because they had a very bad fight with my grandmother and after a while they would come back to attend. There is a woman who has done this at least eight times; I have known her since I was very young. People use Umbanda a lot as a means of personal gain and do not understand what it is and how the demands of the entities can affect their lives, especially when they engage in such rituals lightly. Nowadays I have learned to live better with my belief in religion, but I no longer actively participate in the rituals or attend my grandmother's temple. Understanding that she had been forcing me to do these things since I was a child really messed with my head. I always was a very spiritual person, I mostly feel like my orixás are taking care of me and guiding me through life and they were the responsibles for my "awakening".
I'm seeing a lot of stories about strange and terrible things happening within the LDS church, and I happen to be a part of said church. I just want to say that not everything in the LDS church is bad, and I live a relatively happy life ("relatively" only because of external issues). Where I'm from, nothing is pressured upon, only suggested, and many of the things we are taught are entirely valid and great practices that have helped me be happier, smarter and wiser in my everyday life. I don't know all the circumstances of the stories/events detailed in this video, but I genuinely hope only the best for those involved. I just came to voice my opinion on the matter and possibly clear a few things up if anyone happened to be confused.
There was a great video from an ex-Mormon mother of 8 recently, about how she actually didn’t know what happiness or freedom were until she left the church. If your choices are presented as “you can get married and have kids and be a stay at home mom like a good Mormon or go to college and have a career and drink coffee and go to hell like bad women do” (paraphrasing) then they aren’t real choices,
@@ariadne0w1 I don't know much else to say other than I have not heard of any such things happening around me. If anything, this sounds a bit more like what I hear of Catholicism or archaic beliefs of my church from decades ago. At least where I am, people are encouraged to go to college, and we certainly wouldn't condemn anyone to Hell for something so... droll? (apologies, not entirely good with words) I don't know, it may just depend on region or local area. I know I'm in a more fortunate area, and I'll admit to being somewhat privileged and not having the full picture. Edit: I also want to clarify that just because I haven't witnessed this myself doesn't mean it never happened, and I don't doubt that situations like this can happen. I am just giving my personal experience and perspective.
@@ajsloth707 I am sure some areas/church leaders are much better than others, and I was being unkind in my paraphrasing, not that I haven't heard things along those lines. Of course the main narratives I hear are from those who were disillusioned and deconstructed, not those who are happy with the church and it leads to uncharitable opinions of the organization as a whole. But wow there are so many stories from people who were so much happier then they left - and then again, if they were happy in the church they would have stayed and we don't hear from them.
@@ariadne0w1 Yeah, it all depends on perspective and what you know. And at the end of the day, all I ask is that people do their research before jumping to conclusions. Information is key. And of course, feel free to have and express your own opinions. Everything I say here is meant to be constructive criticism; nothing more, nothing less.
My friend was in one. My mom was the one who told her family not to go there but the thing that was the biggest sign was when a plane crashed killing all leaders except one who became the new one leader. How strange, what a coincidence. She is now writing a memoir about it! I didn’t know until I looked up the church to see many many articles about it. It is “Remnant Fellowship” if anyone wants to look into it a bit more
I had a dream where I was in a cult and sleeping in tents a few months before I actually did that. It was a de javu moment where a scene from my dream matched what I was doing at the time that made me stop and realize that I was in a cult. I also got kicked out of that cult for not buying into the bullshit self-help the leader was 'teaching' us. Especially the part where he was the superman who brought us out of our dreary lives to give us better purpose and thus make us better people. 1 of my proudest achievements was shielding 2 younger girls from buying into that crap too. I got enticed there by a job, not knowing it was a cult. I do believe in a higher entity. She warned me about it beforehand.
Paying to leave a church????? Scientology is insane.
I cannot see a legal reason to do so, unless you signed a contract to do so,,, tell them to pound salt.
Even *with* a contract, that's not legal. Not a lawyer, and I don't know the exact terminology, but basically, you can't be expected to pay back a gift, for training (like for a job), or someone who took responsibility of you while underage (AKA the costs of raising, housing, and feeding you.)
In this case, I think from the post that the "job" OP had with the cult included room and board, and the cost of *that* is what he's expected to refund to the organization. I believe (Again, Not a lawyer) You can't be expected to pay that back, even if you quit.
Edit: Misspelled basically. Thanks for that.
I'm not trying to be rude or anything but basically*
Scientology is a joke like most made up religion
And dude had to work for them unpaid for years too and was pressured to leave school to work more, then when he wanted to leave they expected him to pay?? Actual clowns 🤡
They use your friends and family against you. It’s a pure brainwash and mental torture that whole thing
If they're telling you not to get an education or not to look at stuff from other ways of living, its because keeping you ignorant makes you forget you have a choice. Keep learning folks
Jw?
This! Better education, logic and nuanced thinking has to be the best way I know of improving these situations.
Christianity does this except it tells you that the only good places to receive education are schools or colleges that are Christian
@@Eva-e4e4iYes 😓
This applies politically
I think a good way to judge if its a cult is how much it costs you to leave. From losing friends or loved ones, to literally paying them money, these are real give aways. The church I went to as a kid, well you just walk away and no one probably even notices. They didn't have any contact details for me or my parents or any idea where any of us worked.
THIS. if you can't just leave without being guilted, pressured to stay, having it cost money, being shunned, then it's not healthy. maybe not a cult, but definitely not healthy.
YUP! Literally argued with a Mormon about this, telling me my information is false if it's from excommunicated members and I'm like buddy...why do y'all need to excommunicate people?? I haven't been to church in a decade but I'm free to come back, i can talk to my family still in their church 👀
Good call.
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It's so strange that other branches of Christianity and other religions or so controlling cuz most Christians can just go to church in the middle of nowhere that has a cross on it and boom you're welcome it might be a little strange that a random person just popped up but you're welcome
Scientology works their members 80 hours a week for $50, and still calls them freeloaders and makes them pay an outrageous amount of money when they leave. 🙄
Yep, that is beyond ridiculous! In the United States, even if you are working the federal minimum, that amount of hours in one week would still equal $580 before taxes. $50 for 80 hours is not only ludicrous, but those Scientology people should be in jail.
What's wrong with these people? Why do they stay?
@@lydiapetra1211 Coercion, threats, losing any and all social connections they have, having nowhere to go... tbh there's a lot of reasons. And even if they DO leave anyway, the Church REALLY likes stalking and harassing and threatening any escapees. :S
Because their cult, until the Russians managed to get their hooks into the GOP within the last fifteen years, was the only organization that had locked horns with all of the US intelligence agencies (as well as the IRS) more or less simultaneously AND WON. If they manage to get dirt on the feds to the point they could force the Bureau and the Taxman to back off, no single former member of the group is going to keep the Org from pushing them around. @@lydiapetra1211
The license plate saying "red flag" is oddly fitting
I didn’t even notice 😂 haha love that
Yeah it’s almost like he did it on purpose
I would replace "oddly fitting" for "perfect"
@@SanghaBlack oddly perfect
@@IamusTheFoxperfectly fitting
I recommend the book, "Why Cults are more Addictive than Doughnuts".
Is that question answered in the book? Could you spill it?
I feel like it would be harder to get away from a call then stop eating sugar cuz sugar is something that you can look and see if it's in the ingredients list but a cold tries to stop your perception of anything else
Isabel Nelson: Why Cults are Addictive
This book?
I really respect your viewpoint on religion. I'm Catholic, and I support all faiths, including those who don't believe in God/Jesus/any higher being. It's so sad seeing people use religion to extort others and going absolutely crazy. It gives the good religious people a bad name and, like you said, it gives people trauma associated with religion that they should never have to experience. Please know that not all religious people are like these crazy, cruel idiots.
It also help religions when they aren’t shoving it down you throat, had a friend in high school that her family made attend every church event even on school nights (their church was like an hour away or something and those events could last a while, from what I understood). She said that once she graduates she’d move out and never talk to them or their religion again. And from my understanding she has done exactly that.
I'm lds, and thanks for sharing your viewpoint. I don't often meet people from different religions, and had little to no idea of what most other religions thought. Keep up being a nice person, and not being insane in this upside-down world. Beacon of light. Thx
@@jayewrite1256showing IT down someones throats defeats the purpose to begin with. Parroting Something you never actually internaly engaged with cause you are Not allowed to questionnit IS the exact opposite of belief. Believ comes from the INSIDE, IT can BE nurtured, but talking away the choice actually makes IT Impossible to really believe since you are robbed of all the internal processes and making that choice yourself! You can Not force belief on someone, only empty rituals
IT IS so Bad, at this Point my Fist instinct upon coming across someone religious IS shoring Up my defences and basically getting Battle ready, before very conciously forcing myself to relex and given them a Chance. I have a Lot of Bad experience with christianity and Just people in generell WHO abuser Religion to Hurt Others . . . . But thats Not the Religions fault. ITS Just Like with fire, the Same traids that make IT amazing and benificial also make IT Dangerous . . . I admire the ability to truely believe, without turning IT into BS.
I would Love to Talk with someone with a healthy relationship to religion
Religion can be helpful for a lot of people, it's unfortunate some rotten apples take the opportunity to manipulate others and spread hate. They say they speak for God but mostly they just speak for themselves.
For me, it was the moment I realized that the founder of my "religion" was exactly the same sort of guy who has started every other cult.
Jim Jones, David Koresh, L Ron Hubbard, and Joseph Smith Jr. All the same guy. The lies, the cons, the whole marrying teenage girls thing (seriously, why does it always come to that?), the "give us your money, even if you can't pay your bills", dodging taxes, "spiritual revelations" that are always conveniently in line with whatever the leader wants/needs at the moment, the lying about church doctrine/history, etc etc etc.
Once I realized that my church was founded by a cult leader, it became pretty obvious that my church was actually a cult, and I left.
Same. Second was the lies. They tell you to believe them over the guys before them, but equally that "all prophets were inspired by God". Thankfully it was the black and white thinking they installed that made it easy to see through that
They marry teenage girls because they're easy to control, they'll produce more church members and early marriage stunts life outcomes meaning they'll be trapped, unaware kr buy in.
Hubbard is on a whole different level he was a science fiction writer who is quoted as saying "You don't get rich writing books. You want to get rich start a religion"
David Koresh wasn’t a cult leader. He founded an actual church that was raided by the government for reasons that were 100% fabricated. The only thing he did that was morally wrong (and he openly admitted was wrong) was married a 16 year old girl while he was in his mid twenties but was legal back then with parent’s permission. Seriously glad they changed that law
@@krispingle true but his religion turned into a cult and they suck their people dry of money.
Knew a guy that was in the Church of Christ, he was a co-worker. I went with him to one of their large gatherings. They passed Communion around at one point, which I didn't take part in, and he was a little bit disappointed. (I'm Lutheran and we don't take Communion unless it's in a Lutheran Church.) This guy was so into this church. So religious.
Imagine our surprise at work one day when they came in to press charges on him for theft. He had been stealing from the cash register. The rest of us there were talking amongst ourselves pointing out how religious he was and was always on about how people should obey the commandments.
A few months later I ran into him and we decided to go to lunch. He admitted to me that he had been stealing from the cash register because he had to keep up with his tithe at church. His reasoning for stealing is that giving to God was first and foremost and the money was going to the church. I tried to explain things a bit better to him about faith etc. but he was too far gone. I often wonder what happened to him in the long run.
Yeah, thats just stupid. I understand wanting to pay the church, but does the guy think that god needs more money?
Christianity doesn't have tithes. If any "Christian" church tells you that you need to tithe is scamming you.
My mom grew up in this church. She realized as a young adult how insane it was and left . That was decades ago, and her sister is still in deep. They don't talk much
@@azurephoenix9546 Yeah, I knew another guy who joined some church as he was settling into a new area. He didn't go every Sunday so they showed up at his door one day to tell him what was what if he wanted to join their church. And he told them what was what and showed them the door. LOL.
In some of the Lutheran churches in the old days there were tithes but if someone fell on hard times or whatnot they weren't held to it. By the time I was an adult we didn't do tithing, at least at the Lutheran churches I've attended.
@Albanwinter
It may have just been an assumption of tithes or an expectation of giving. But Paul tells people not to if they can't. He made tents for a living, but I noticed that a lot of people skim over that and ignored the fact that they all had side jobs while they were out proselytizing. There's nothing wrong with being a pastor as a profession or devotional calling without other income, but it's often not a sustainable situation for a lot of churches and churchgoers.
My husband's family are Lutheran, and their pastor is also a high school principal. The previous pastor was a wheat farmer. The incoming or associate pastor does music therapy for disbled children as his job. I would guess it isn't ideal, as it means a very limited amount of time to devote to actual church work, but it probably wasn't all that easy in the past either, but everyone needs to eat
I'm Australian and went to a Catholic school, it was and still is the best primary school in town. Their curriculum was far ahead of the local public school, everyone was surprisingly nice and understanding. Even ended up waving the debt my parents had to keep me in there which was over 13k. Not all catholic schools are bad. Just most.
Also had a good catholic school experience, when I was in Middle School, it may have been related to being high functioning autistic but I really struggled. I didn't really care about school, didn't see the point. But I got a lot of support given that the school was on the smaller side. And the people that worked there really cared about me succeeding. Now I'm in HS and am doing fantastic. Needless to say if I had gone to the massive public school down the street I think I would be in a very different place right now. Sometimes Catholic Schools can get a pretty bad rep on the internet, so I hope my story gives the good ones the credit they deserve.
My Christian Brothers experience was pitiful. They were too busy stockpiling money in preparation for the new co-ed school they were planning to bother maintaining the current school, repairing equipment or replacing "useless" subjects like art or music when the relevant teachers retired or left. They'd just fill the period with religious Ed. At one point in Year 10, four of the seven classes in one day were RE. I left, took two years off & worked, then went to a state school for 11 & 12. I'll always regret that I didn't attend a state school from Grade 1. It was a revelation!
I actually went to a convent school from 3 years old to 10 years old although I wasn't actually a Catholic and I loved it.
When Mother Angela retired, Sister Imelda came in and modernised the school. She put in a library where I read a book on female inventors and A Little Princess, and both of those books changed my life.
One of my children (from the 5th grade) attended a Catholic school just like me (from the 1st grade) until we graduated.
The other child attended a state school (each of their own choice from the 5th grade). Our Catholic school child had much better social interaction and was very shocked to visit his old elementary school classmates' public school on a Catholic holiday. Because no teacher intervened when the children insulted and condescended to others even during lessons because they were either particularly good or particularly bad at the respective lesson topic.
As a parent there was also a difference in the interaction with the teachers, the teachers at the Catholic school discussed on an equal level, while most teachers at the public school seemed to expect that you, as a parent, if they made a "negative" statement (behavior, school successes, etc.) threaten to contact a lawyer to have the “bad grades” removed.
@@manub.3847 I'm assuming you're Aussie, in which case your experience is the result more than two decades of private schools being grossly over funded by the Federal Government, while PUBLIC education receives consistently LESS - a situation that occurs nowhere else in the Western world.
South Park made the right choice with the sciencetology ep.
Scientology has declined since then. Good.
Possibly one of the most important episodes of any TV shows ever. Brought down an entire cult
Also the Mormon episode, (Season 7, episode 12)
@@Atillatcele well that episode was better than the scientology episode. They weren't really making fun of the Mormon religion.
@@hope1447they have an entire song calling all Mormons dumb
Former Jehovah’s Witness here. Was in for about seven years. I never heard the term “high control group” while I was in. I just knew that it felt like I was living in a fishbowl, being watched and judged for every little thing in my life. When I found myself policing my own thoughts for fear of some mysterious sky daddy hearing them, I knew this wasn’t sustainable. Hope everyone here familiarizes themselves with the B.I.T.E. Model, so they know what to watch out for.
I'm still paranoid about being constantly watches by some nebulous being with a different moral code they're forcibly imposing on me
Why wouldn’t god know what you’re thinking though?
for those of us who are not on the know.... what is that B.I.T.E. model thing?
@@Symbelle The B.I.T.E Model is how you can measure if an organization is a cult. It stands for: Behavior, Information, Thought and Emotion. I recommend you google it. It’s an interesting read.
@@Symbelle bruh they literally say familiarize yourself lol; I’m sure you have access to a search engine?
“Steven Hassan developed the BITE Model to describe cults’ specific methods to recruit and maintain control over people. “BITE” stands for Behavior, Information, Thought, and Emotional control.”
This is how you know the difference between a proper religion/church and a cult. A church says you're welcome any time, any reason, and while they might encourage you to follow them they won't be judgemental if you turn away. They want to help you and want you to see the way they do of your own volition; they want you to want to come back and be a part of their community. A church says "Come in."
A cult on the other hand stifles your free will, tells you not to think for yourself, tells you they are your only salvation, and shames you if you speak out against them. And they make it impossible, or at least extremely difficult to leave them and go your own way without them. A cult says "Never leave, no exceptions."
More people need to see this. There are too many places claiming to be “churches” that are actually just cults
Also a church will not control your actual life. They may tell you you should do this, maybe tall shit about you if its a small community and you dont do it, but they dont actually make you do it.
You seem confused to me. What you describe as a cult describes most churches in America.
@@remyoconnor3141 Spoken like someone who's never been to an actual church.
@@AndrewChumKaser lol. You are VERY wrong about that. I spent 20 years in churches ranging from Pentecostal to Catholic to Presbyterian to non denominational. And I can tell you will all certainty that religion does not require money. And every western religion has tithing guidelines in their holy books and layed out by their ecclesiastical governments.
Plus western religion expects you to declare that you need them for forgiveness and religious rebirth. Which is just plain manipulation. You are not born in sin, you make a conscious decision every day to either be a good person or not. You don’t need a God to tell you to be a good person.
I wasn't pulled in, but one attempted to recruit me. The worst part was afterwards when I had looked it up and realised that the person had been trying to pull me in. I tried telling my parents and they just... waved me off, like it wasn't important.
I don't tell my parents important things these days
That is sad and concerning... Like who doesn't listen to their kids?
@@reetasingh6297my parents often dismissed me. as an adult I'm on very controlled contact and I never tell them the deep stuff.
The incident was also fairly mild as these things go - the person was a customer in the shop I was in, and kept inviting me to their "meetings" and had a super weird smile. Afterwards I looked up the group to find it on a cult warning list.
I tried to tell them because I felt shaken and scared and they paid no attention to me.
Because it's not so much a big thing? Like 'no I don't wanna join your club or harem' and move on. It happens to most people
@@duckmeat4674I would liken it to being hit on by a person who keeps cornering you and doesn't like your "no".
would you also tell a child who's just broken their leg "everyone breaks bones, move on"?
@@philippak7726 it's not like breaking your bones at all. After that one hour max, there's nothing lasting
Imagine getting inspired by the family that let their son SA their daughters because 'he cried and said sorry'
Thats the IBLP, Bill Gothard literally teaches that SA is the girls fault for "tempting the brethren", and that excuse is always ridiculous but ESPECIALLY when you see how conservative they dress and act
I have never heard of anyone being inspired to be like them, IRL. But I have heard of hundreds who, while enjoying watching the shows, were inspired NEVER to go there. 🤣
@bethanyhanna9464 Unfortunately, I have known people who were inspired by them. Luckily, the ones I was still in contact with partially snapped out of it once the SA stuff came out.
IKR!!??
@@steviebeevieI grew up in a chult (not every church in the org is a full cult but they all share some cultish beliefs/behaviors) and the females were always blamed for men behaving badly. It wasnt always iutright stated as such but the teaching indicated that we had to do xyz or not do abc because it mught cause a man to "stumble". So infuriating.
I think the reason why the University of Tennessee was so prominently focused on in that cult was because I believe the University of Tennessee was the first University to teach Evolution to it students rather than the Creationist belief. There was a whole Supreme Court case about it when it happened if I remember from Civics class correctly. I think it was in the 50s. But take it with a grain of salt, I may be wrong about everything.
Interesting. I figured it was probably because they were trying to scare the kids away from their state's secular college.
Story 10 reminds me of a school I went to long ago. It wasn't an actual cult but have very cult-like vibes. The principal also ran it like she was the next Jesus. I could tell so many weird stories of that place, but I think the most petty was when I (a 13 yr old girl at the time) got subtle blonde highlights in my hair, the principal pulled me into her office and shamed me and then threatened to expel me if I didn't get rid of the highlights. I cannot stress enough how much these highlights were just a subtle blonde color, not bleach blond or an unnatural color. That woman genuinely scared me lol
i was thinking lots of thin slightly-lighter streaks, enough to subtly change the general color just a teeny bit.
Oh god. I had a kindergarten teacher like that. She put me on a leash and practically held me captive in the far corner of the classroom on the FIRST DAY OF SCHOOL because I didn’t know how to line up properly. I was 4 and had never gone to daycare so there’s no way I could have known.
soo similar to my headmaster at my current school rn, although instead of expel, “call parents”
and if you do one problem and get caught, you get targetted for basically the rest of your school life
and he also has a slight favouritism, he will let some go and punish others, when the ones that were allowed to go were obviously worse
@@Alternativeee my principal (probably the same thing as a headmaster) also has favourite kids. My friend accidentally knocked a kid out cold while protecting his friend who was in a fight. Him and his friend got suspended and the 2 kids who started the fight (and practically start every fight in the school of 1200 people) were let go. It’s the dumbest thing I ever heard.
@@CoolCademMAnimates-fz1ui schools be out here suspending the victims and make learning as disinteresting as possible and adults wonder why we hate schools lmao
Dang, you’re not just reading out the entries but adding your own two unbiased cents. I love it.
26:44 the fact that the pastor specifically blames the University of Tennessee for planting fossils caught me all the way off guard
It's probably close to the University of Tennessee
What's weird is that I had heard this before about the University of Tennessee. I think it was somebody mentioning it when being interviewed on some show I was watching. The interviewer (as well as probably most of the viewers) had the same sort of "Wait, what?!" kind of reaction.
And don't forget the fact they say the moon isn't real - come on, the moon appears in the Bible!! 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️
Maybe confusing it with East Tennessee State University, which runs the Gray Fossil Site.
I am a rare breed for my race and family history, I was a person who was fascinated with ALL religions but was never truly “sold” on any of them.
My dad’s mother’s family were Southern Baptist. I should point out that we are also of mixed heritage. My grandmother made us (her grandchildren) go to church all the time with her. All of her siblings except one, who was Catholic, attended the same church. All of the grandchildren attended Sunday School except me. I do remember going once but asking questions and then suddenly I didn’t have to go anymore.
I remember as a young child watching someone experiencing the Holy Spirit and being absolutely appalled by their behavior. Mind you, she was only convulsing on the ground but I distinctly remember thinking: “you are so faking it” which alarmed me.
I truly wanted to believe in what they did but I just… couldn’t. Not whole heartedly. I will never forget the time I used the Bible to get out of attending church forever.
My grandma was getting ready for church one Sunday morning and I just… didn’t want to be bothered. I was required to wear a dress (I HATED them) and I looked at my grandma and she said: “you should get ready”
Me: “why?”
Grandma: “because we are going to the house of God to worship him..”
Me: “But grandma it is said in Matthew such and such chapter and such and such verse that we carry the house of god within our hearts at all times and if that is true. I should not have to go to the “house of God” because according to the Bible I am always at his house.” And I turned back to watching cartoons.
My grandma was flabbergasted. She retrieved her Bible opened it to the chapter and exact scripture I quoted and… determined that the Holy Spirit had directed me to say what I did since I was like 7. From that day forward I did not attend her church.
My older cousin who lived with us HATED that I didn’t have to go but my grandma saw it as God speaking through me and determining that I didn’t have to go to church.
That didn’t last long as at 8 I moved in with my mother and SHE wanted to be a Jehovah’s Witness. I was NOT interested in the slightest. Well that’s partially true. I was interested in it through scholarly lenses but I was not someone who was interested in becoming a part of any of that.
Sad to say, my mother bought it whole heartedly and her first husband did as well. They were both zealots and not in a good way. When I was 13, they decided they wanted to devote their lives to Jehovah. I did not. I was asked if I wanted to be baptized as well and I flat out said refused. That was something that they taught was that it was a life changing decision and you should take it very seriously. If you found that it wasn’t for you, then don’t do it. (Note: I have sense learned that what I was taught was definitely not apart of the doctrine and was actually against what they taught. My congregation also taught the importance of a higher education. Again actually not apart of the doctrine. Children were encouraged to become full time ministers HOWEVER there wasn’t any shame in wanting to attend college) I had said I didn’t want to get baptized because I thought that at the age of freaking 13 that this was entirely too serious of a situation for me to decide to do without proper thought, time to decide, etc.
What was my parents reaction? My mom, evil that she is, applauded me for having such an adult way of thinking about baptism. Her husband on the other hand… did not like it. He wanted us to be baptized as a “family”. I was punished. I was not allowed to go anywhere or do anything until I saw “the light “. After a full year of being denied even socializing I gave in and was baptized at 15.
That lasted all of 1 year before I decided that I was right and I did NOT wish to be associated with a religion that would shun people who left or punish people for deciding NOT to be one of them.
I am proud to say I am a heathen and I really don’t give a eff about what you believe. However, the moment you try to force me to attend and believe what you do… I don’t like you nor whatever “god” you think you are worshipping.
On a side note: My mother’s mother told me several years ago that according to their latest teachings, my baptism was null and void due to the fact that I was forced to do so under duress. Like I care.
Sound Like me, I do respect religion in ITS core and am deeply facinated by belief, but I have Zero tolerance for BS when IT comes to abusing Religion ad an excuse to cause harm!!! True Religion can only ever BE the choice and buisness of an Individuum, the Moment force comes into IT, ITS No longer belief . . .
I attended Christian preschool where there were strong expressions of the Christian faith and Bible readings. One day I realized as a still very young and naive child the hypocrisy of "Murder is bad, but if God condones it then murder is good".
That was a very chilling moment that led me to sliding more/less into atheism lol
Repent
Your salvation is paid for.
@@redbird9000 Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, and I’m proud to say that like OP, I’m an atheist. If you don’t like it, that’s your problem, not ours. Have a good day :)
"I can't be repenting at my time of life! I'd never get anything done! Besides, I ain't sorry 'bout most of it." -- N. Ogg
As a student at the University of Tennessee, all of our money goes to football. Not fossils…. or parking tbh.
Anyways, GO VOLS BABY! VFL! WE TOTALLY PLANTED THOSE FOSSILS
I was a bio major at UTK. There’s a strong evolutionary component to the department (one of the 4 subcategories was/ is? Ecological and evolutionary biology) but this is just silly. And yes the football team gets the $$$$$
Maybe those people just don’t know there’s a world outside Tennessee. Your university is the most secular place they know, so obviously it’s in charge of ALL the fossils.
maybe they heard about the body farm and the bones that were stored under the stadium from it, but took it and ran with it in the most unhinged way possible
It goes to handegg. Football is when you kick a ball with your foot.
Was born into the Independent Fundamental Baptist Church (IFB). My dad wasn’t super serious about it until I was in high school. Wasn’t allowed to question anything, and my father owned me until he pawned me off to theoretically marry an IFB man, and homeschool the children. In 12th grade, my mom suddenly passed away. 8 days later, my former pastor, his wife, and my father all told me that I had to be my fathers wife since I was now the only girl in the house. A few years later, they sent me away to the other side of the country for conversion therapy under the guise of bible college, as I was the poster child for their purity culture and bus route. I developed a psychotic disorder while there because of the things they were teaching (in particular about marriage) and they performed an exorcism on me twice. Ironically I took a class about cults while I was in a cult. That was my aha moment. The whole class was just watching debates of an IFB pastor vs the other cults, and discussions about why the IFB is NOT a cult and everyone else is a cult even though the IFB did the exact same things. I ended up writing a paper as the class project about why the IFB is a cult, and got the highest grade in my class, as there was a loophole in the syllabus about being allowed to write about any religion, with preference towards the ones mentioned in class. Then there was a case within the church where a man had been abusing his 4 year old daughter and the dude got blind support despite the evidence being super obvious and in everyone’s faces. He was proven to be guilty, so I did some more research about the pastor and discovered that he had had 7 lawsuits against him for abusing his position as pastor and all of them was proven to be true, but when asked about it, he just said that it was him being persecuted by the devil. I decided to leave right then and there, but was physically unable to until the following year when I had to escape to another state in order to escape by train with nothing but my clothes and my mother’s momentous. It’s been almost 2 years since then and I’m in a much better place mentally now.
Good luck to you. Get emotional support. You will have ups and downs but overall you are better off. Be prepared for bad days and good days.
I feel like if, at any point, trauma or trauma-bonding are a central part of a religion, it's not a religion anymore.
Edit for things I didn't think I had to say until I read the comments: Good grief, people, I ain't got the time or crayons to explain how trauma isn't just hurt feelings or a sense of guilt. No, a little trauma isn't good for the soul, no, you're not traumatizing someone just by saying they done a bad. If you don't in fact know what trauma is, maybe Google it. If it don't sound familiar, then why you think I'm talking about you? If it does, get help.
In a way (just my opinion though) most religions trauma-bond around the punishment for either sinning, or worse, not believing.
Religion is traumatic due to its opposition to nature and inherent guilt (feeling terrible about what you do) and shame (feeling terrible about who you ARE) are required to do it right
@@valeriew4833 You have been exposed to religions who are doing the opposite of what most religions actually stand for. That's too bad.
@@valeriew4833Not really, Just cause the church went of with making IT all about shame does Not mean all Religion IS about telling you you are intrinsically Bad and have to atone for existing . . .
@@valeriew4833 Trauma isn't guilt or shame. Trauma is a psychological response to intense pain which makes us avoid what caused it in the first place. If religion is traumatic, it's driving people away from itself.
I was adopted by strictly Mormon adoptive parents. My "dad" even later became the bishop of our ward. I was constantly sxually abused by him and so were my six sisters, though I got a bit more of that treatment due to my large chest. After giving it my all for over 10 years my older sisters started coming out as bisexual and my mother started to wonder why she couldn't love them if the church said Jesus loves everyone. Mormons actually hate everyone! So she left, and I hung on a little longer until she helped me to see. I deal with a lot of guilt for the way I treated people and I'm still learning to deal with the abuse my adoptive father still treats me with. It's been a few years, and in that time I've actually realised I'm agender (meaning I have a female body but I allow myself the freedom of a genderless life). I feel so free
That... sucks, I can understand why you might hate Mormons, I hope you have a great life.
That sounds positively horrible! Being a member myself it makes me sick that members of the church whould do that. I get why you left and I sincerely hope you're able to heal from what they have done to you and your sister
Thank you so much for your kind comment! I was honestly expecting a judgemental or rude comment from a mormon but this was a pleasant surprise. I have moved several states away and I'm doing well now; I even found another church for now. I hope you are doing well
I respect your choice to disassociate from your sexual body - completely normal for those of us who are incest/SA survivors. I hope you are eventually able to reintegrate, and reclaim what he took from you.
Are you still in contact with this man?
As a Tennessean, that last one caught my attention to. Wtf, why did WE get called out? Not that they'd listen to me as "blacks" are "not to be tolerated." It's almost refreshing to hear someone be that up front about being a racist for once.
frankly i assumed maybe Tennessee has a really good paleontology department or something?
@@Simon-hb9rf same
a cult recently moved into my hometown and is buying up all the property around to build a community……very scary times
My first thought was Clearwater, but it can't be, cause the cult has owned that whole town for years
My first thought was Bixby, OK, because that's been happening there as well. The leaders (a couple who claim that God spoke out loud to them and told them to move here) used the money from all the members to buy up property, including a local gas station/convenience store that they turned into a gift shop for cult merch, and now make the members work there. Also, if you join, you get your name changed to something that sounds like an alien from a 1950s sci-fi movie (e.g. Xenon, Klantu, etc).
When the religious organization my parents sent me openly said they were a cult lol. They would be like “normally cults are nice things but as usual media makes us look bad “ or “clapping is as bad as MURDER” I’m talking about normal clapping like you do at the end of a show. Their reasoning was it sounded like music and music is devils thingy so you are devil basically. Oh also graphic descriptions of a tale that goes like: there was a blacksmith who was blessed with being able to touch red hot iron without being burned. Then his wife opened the door to someone delivering something but she was in a hurry so she couldn’t put on her hijab properly. When she opened the door the guy standing there saw literally 1 strand of her hair and for some reason blacksmith lost his blessing without being informed. So he touched burning hot iron with his bare hands. Then they would proceed to tell us how a man seeing one strand of a woman’s hair is the same as them having sex which wasn’t the lesson story was trying to teach I guess but whatever just make shit up who is looking. The last straw was them not letting me go there after I was 13 if I wasn’t gonna stay there whole year (I just stayed at summer). That’s when I realized they couldn’t brainwash me without constant supervision at that age. Oh also I read (pronunciation I don’t understand arabic) the whole Quran at kindergarten before being able to read a letter in latin alphabet.
I mean technacilly the definition of a cult is just a religion that isn't recognized by a nation, so cults can be good but most times not.
As a muslim, these things they brainwashed you with has absolutely no place in Islam whatsoever. Zina (illegal sexual activities) has many different levels, (the worst one being actual intercourse). Musical instruments are prohibited according to the majority opinion, however clapping with no intention of producing music does not fall under the same category. In any case they DO NOT compare to murder
the evangelical stuff with Pokemon.. had similar situations with Pokemon and Harry Potter in Florida and Alabama as a kid
Love how i see this in my feed the very moment i booted up Cult Of The Lamb
Story 36: one time I was saved by a goat boy but then he started using me and the rest of the group to do rituals. And then the demo ended and he didn't have 20 buck so by now the pastor left and now I'm free to wear a tank top and shorts
They are just simple ideas for your cult 🙃
As someone who was raised Mormon, seeing SO many stories about it here is so validating. I left officially the other day, but I left UNoffically years ago. Seeing certain ones here saying “not a cult, but…” is funny to me, because in my eyes, it absolutely is a cult. The Mormon church just insists over and over again that it isn’t.
On my drive from my house to my college, I drive by that massive Mormon temple on the highway. I’m not saying that having a massive temple is a definitive sign of a cult, but something about it is…unsettling
I left a long time ago, but I really only started thinking about how culty it was until recent years.
One of the bigger red flags is how they make members feel guilty about leaving because “millions around the world have been waiting to hear the proclamation, you are LUCKY to have been born into it”
I can go on all day about numerous other forms of psychological manipulation they use on questioning members, but this one is a good enough example.
Idk how people can say it’s not a cult after going to the temple. I went in once for the baptism of the dead and it put off so many alarms in my head why do they hand out marble????? Why are they using me a 14 year old for baptizing dead people???
I agree, even some non Mormons don't really see it as a cult because of all the PR the church does... so it's truly validating to hear stories that resonate with my experience growing up Mormon
To everyone here who insists that it's a cult, I object. I'm very sorry for your bad experiences, and my heart goes out to you - you definitely should never have been shamed or abused for being different or for leaving, and everyone who did those things to you will be punished eventually by a just God. All the same, I completely respect your absolute right to believe what you want, and if you insist that it's a cult then fine. Just please respect my choice to remain in the Church of my own volition, and don't just mindlessly say I'm brainwashed. It's that this religion has given me or led me to all the good things I've ever had in life, so I felt I needed to speak up and say that there IS good to be found in it. I hope you all have a wonderful day, amigos.
26:43 As a resident of Tennessee, I couldn't help but bust out laughing. Why Tennessee?! Wouldn't those people have at least suggested a Northern state?! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
That is because UT has an extensive Anthropological program. I took some anthropology classes underneath the football stadium where you learn about evolution and they have fossils from early hominids and you learn how to compare and contrast them and you can literally see the evolution of man from ape when you inspect and study them. It’s quite interesting seeing the progression of it over the millions of years.
As an Ex Mormon (born into it, left when i was 15), I am surprised to see so many Mormon stories in here. It reminds me of this specific memory I have, where I think it was a seminary teacher, said that “We’re only a cult if you define a cult as religion” or something, I don’t remember the specifics, so even to this day I didn’t think of it as a cult.
Oh, that had to have been hard when you were still a teenager. I knew a Mormon kid who was converted to Catholicism when we were in high school. When his parents found out they kicked him out of the house. They were a well known family where I lived and the community was not particularly happy when they found out he went home one day and the family had locked him out of the house.
Had a friend I walked to school with every day who Mormon. She was naive and asked strange questions. I grew up non-religious until my father converted to Christianity in my teens. His church expected us, his 3 daughters, to just suddenly be Christians and obey all new sets of rules. I'm grateful he wasn't naive and realized he would have alienated us and we would have gone no contact if he had expected us to do what his friends wanted.
My Mormon friend wanted the tea on what happened at our church every Monday morning. 😅 We wore whatever we wanted to church, listened to our own music, wore makeup, dated boys at school, joined dad at church if we wanted to offer him support because they helped him quit smoking and a support system his teenage daughters couldn't be and frankly weren't ashamed to be normal.
I found it a little strange how she was so entertained by our lives. As though speaking up for ourselves in church was the craziest shit she had ever heard. She couldn't believe my dad didn't come down on us. It's not like we were antagonistic or disrespectful to our father. We obeyed the rules he always had. We did our chores, we did our homework, we all took turns making dinner, we got along well ( mostly, we're sisters not saints.) We just didn't suddenly become Christians just because the church felt we should be too after our father became one.
Anyway, she married and divorced within a year after high school. Stayed with us because her family wouldn't take her back. She said she married to get out but things were even worse married. She ended up going to college and living her life. She credited us with much more than we actually did for her.
Religion does not equal cult, but religion is a really, *really* effective foundation for a cult.
@@Will__Solace, I joined 2 years ago. I get it - it looks ridiculous to an outsider. Works for me, though.
I am a current member but not too surprised that some people think of it as a cult. While I've never had anyone personally say that to me I've heard stories of that happening to others. I respect those who have decided to leave it but I also agree we're not a cult, since no one is forced to do anything in the temple that they don't want to do.
Here in the Philippines, we have "Iglesia ni Cristo" which basically means "Church of Christ". It's the largest Christian group in the country, and it's technically not a cult, but it has all the makings of one.
I remember that my uncle was a devout believer of this church while my aunt is a Roman Catholic. My uncle managed to get their three kids to join while he couldn't do get my aunt to. Even though he's a devout believer, and that he donates to the church generously, he still is mocked by their fellow members, and says shit like their family will not be "saved", and that he isn't a real member. (basically shaming tactic)
My grandma's brother was also a devout believer. One day, I got curious and asked him how their whole salvation thing works, and he responded that if you believe in their church, you are automatically saved (by making donations, being obedient, and praying of course.) I then asked him how about good people that aren't believers of INC, and he replied with "it's good that they're good, but they will not be saved. I asked him, how about murderers and thieves, as well as scummy corrupt politicians that believed in their religion, and he said that they would be saved.
This personally made me hate INC honestly, and could not help but think that maybe other religions behave the same way, just much more subtle.
P.S. They also prohibit the celebration of Christmas (They believe that Christ is not a god, and that he is only the son of god) And they also don't allow the consumption of blood. (Blood = Dirty)
P.P.S. ALSO, if you are a member, and you have, let's say, a dying child that badly needs a blood transfusion, better say your goodbyes because faith is much more important than your child. If you decide otherwise, then get ready to be shamed to excommunication.
INC Propaganda Vid:
www.reddit.com/r/exIglesiaNiCristo/comments/9j2wi0/the_inc_is_a_mafia_of_manalo_extremists/
INC Propaganda Cringe (Worshipping Eduardo Manalo their leader)
www.reddit.com/r/exIglesiaNiCristo/comments/1bd5mvr/inc_logic_to_be_saved_the_entire_human_race/
They are here even in Singapore
Member here. Planning to leave once I become financially independent, but I don't think it's a cult tbh. It only exhibits a cult-like appearance because of extreme devotees who doesn't have a community outside the church. The church becomes their sole community and so they become detached from those outside.
Now regarding the videos:
First video was made by ministers as a birthday greeting to the executive minister. It's to be expected that they're composed of loyalists and that the message of their video is all about loyalty. A Catholic bishop also has the same loyalty towards the Pope even though it isn't expressed as often.
Second video was just cringe tho. It's kinda ironic since (afaik) there's no verse in the Bible telling the people to admire the appointed leader. There are teachings about following their orders, but that's about it. It gets even more weird when you learn that some members have a picture of the executive minister at their homes. But then again, the pope also receives the same amount of fame so I guess it's fair.
Honestly, if you look closely at the extreme devotees of the Catholic church, they also exhibit cult-like behaviors. It's especially obvious during the parade of Black Nazareth or when you see those who nail themselves to a cross (cuz Jesus is based apparently). Catholicism is just more diluted because it's old and popular.
PS blood transfusion isn't prohibited
@@astral6749 yeah, i get that it isn't a cult technically but still, ya know?
Also, you're very much right about the parallels with the Pope and the Catholic church, which is the main reason why I'm extremely weary of religion now to the point of actually being atheistic.
I do believe that for some, religion provides a community where anyone can belong to, and that the majority of them promotes a "do good and be good" attitude. It's just that, that image is ruined for me, and that religion really is not for everyone.
@@TheRealDuckyDuck Exactly. This is also why I really appreciate religions like Shinto which are not as intrusive nor controversial compared to most religions that originated from the west.
This sounds a lot like Jehovah’s Witnesses. Is there any connection, or just a similar kind of fundamentalism?
I wasn't in a religious cult, but here's my story anyways.
When I was 13, I had just come out as LGBT and was struggling with identity and community while being in the bible belt. I discovered this organization that promotes inclusivity and friendliness to folks of my identity. That summer I went to their camp, about 5 hours away. I fell in love with the scenery, the people. I felt included. When I got home I felt so on top of the world that I came out to my mom, the only person who didn't know yet - and was kicked out. So, I spent the next several years working hard for this organization; partly to build my community more and partly to keep myself busy. In 2019, 7 years later, they made some statements about me wishing to date outside of the organization. They reminded me that they were all I had, and that they know me better than anyone else will. I decided to leave shortly after and was disowned / ostracized from anyone I had known there. I still have trouble making friends and trusting that they don't have alternative motives
I’m so sorry about that I hope your doing better now :(
Cults are more than just religious. There are personality cults, commercial cults, and community based cults like the one you were in. I am so sorry you had to go through that. I hope that you are in a much better place.
ugh--much love to you, dear friend. xoxoxoxoxoxo
They took horrible advantage of a vulnerable you
That's the peak definition of a cult.
I am terribly sorry for your past, but am happy you recognized that, and can work to be who you are today
While I may not know you, I fully support you in your journey and hope you will build from that
@@creepyflamewolf5199 Thank you so much. I have learned and grown so much in the past few years and thankfully now have the most amazing chosen family a guy could ask for. I'm learning how to open up about my experience and share in hopes that other folks won't fall trap to the same thing I did. It's still hard, but I see that I have support now in ways I never did - and that makes a difference.
My partner was raised in a cult. It was a series off coincidences that led him to be able to escape. He didn't even know it was a cult until recently when I asked him more about the "church" he went to as a kid. (For anyone curious: INC)
Btw the whole touching you naked in mormon temple ceremony is no longer a thing you no longer are naked for anything
Yeah no same, when I went to the temple, I was fully clothed the whole time
Like, SA is definitely a thing, but “blessing privates” has never been a thing unless you’re FLDS 😬
@@just_ema5950never? I'm pretty sure it was... Don't they bless your loins to be fruitful and multiply or whatever? Even the comment above says it isn't "anymore" meaning that yes it used to.
"touching you naked in mormon temple ceremony is no longer a thing" But it was fun while it lasted!
Yeah, and they also got rid of the blood oaths! how wonderful
Bruhhh I’ve been in 3 types of cults
A Christian cult
A martial arts cult
And BUSINESS SCAMS/cults
It’s so convoluted, and I don’t know how to fully separate myself.
It’s DISGUSTING OUT HERE 🤮
If you get into a fourth one you’ll get a free t-shirt
Yoga is a cult
A martial arts cult? That's a new one for me.
I would like to hear more about the martial arts cult.
I had a long, exhausting discussion with my religions a-class teacher in high achool about Mormonism being a cult. I used the materials and sources on how to detect a cult (ie denying autonomy of body, psyche, spirituality and emotions; us versus them mentality; ostrasizing former members and those who "don't do as well").
She had a VERY bad hissy fit deapite neither her nir her family being a mormon at all - she just hated the idea that pritestant religions could form cults
I was at a Christian church for a little awhile while homeless and after going there for a year they got me to live with one of the members who went to a nightly bible study with the church and after living with her she started to push for me to go with them.
I wasn't sure if I would fit in considering I'm not really a pray every night before I sleep, cuss just a little and pretty into Harry Potter and other things that Christians don't like. Eventually she convinced me, after going for awhile they convinced me to read their personal bible.... This was everything God would be against. It seemed more of an instruction manual on how to please the cult, from giving them all of your financial information to your personal information such as SSI and such.
After reading it and taking a picture of all of it I went to my roommate to ask her if she's done any of this, how long she has been involved and does she know this is a cult. She broke down. Apparently she had her suspicions but didn't want to leave because a member of that after church group raped her and she was threatened into it. I told her she needs to leave because im leaving and this is not right. Over the weekend I managed to get her in touch with some of her family, she signed the lease over to me and in two months she was out. I sold the house to a coworker of mine and I dipped to Austin TX, which was 10 hours away. Drove the whole way and never looked back. I don't know what they're doing now and I don't care. I have pictures of the cult bible manual printed out and stapled in my private information safe at home. They tried to reach out to me a couple times and I blocked them and changed my number. The girl is doing ok and currently she's a children's therapist. We met up a couple months ago and talk daily, she luckily didn't give them anything important but she did have to change her phone number after they harassed her for two months.
I'm still a Christian and am a member of a youth group at my local church. She has strayed away from religion as a whole, which I don't blame her at all. I started going to church a year after processing all of that and getting settled in my current home.
It's been 7 years since then and the church in completely abandoned, me and the girl plan on visiting in the summer for some closure.
Okay, I used to be part of the LDS church and been to a few of the Temples, but some of what is mentioned sounds fishy because I never experienced it. So I'm guessing they've been to a sect of the church that split apart from the main church many years which give the main church a bad rep. But the baptism of the dead was my favorite part back when I was a member. Even got to be the one who dunk someone under the water.
Finally someone who isn’t biased just becouse they left. Obviously the church has problems but a lot of these storys sound absolutely insane. Thanks for being honest
I still am a member of that church, and for a while I was even asked if I wanted to serve as a temple worker. Which I did for a few years. And I can tell you, that "being naked" story is intentionally omitting details, and trying to make it sound much worse than it really is. If you'd prefer not to hear any more about this, that's fine. But if you (or anyone else) want to hear an explanation, here you go:
The part that poster described is called the "initiatory ordinance." A worker will place hands on the head of the person receiving it, and will speak the words that are meant to describe blessings being promised to you. (For the record, this part doesn't have any commitments for the recipient to make.) A lot of these blessings refer to different parts of the body, symbolically; without going into direct quotations, I can give a few examples, like the head being symbolic of intellect, shoulders symbolizing the ability to bear burdens, or eyes being able to see clearly (in a metaphorical as well as literal sense).
Now, it used to be that for this ordinance, the recipient would wear... essentially, it looks like a large poncho (yes, even I found that weird), and it was called a shield. And that's because in the distant past, the worker performing the ordinance would place fingertips over the general area of the part being described. This "shield" clothing was meant to be loose-fitting enough that there wouldn't be any actual touching. The person was never naked, and even though this "shield" was still open on the sides, it still draped over the body a lot like a robe, and the person would also be wearing underwear or short pants underneath. There would never be skin-to-skin contact below the neck.
Also very importantly: only men would officiate for men receiving this ordinance; and only women would officiate for women receiving the ordinance. There are completely separate areas in the building for the men and women in this practice; it's meant to be safe and private for every person receiving this.
Still, the situation admittedly wasn't the most comfortable for the person receiving, or the person officiating. In more recent decades, this ceremony has adapted in a few ways. By the time I was 19 and I went through this for myself, there was no touching, even symbolically; the officiator would place his hands on my head, and leave them there, even while describing blessings that symbolically corresponded to different areas of the body, like I mentioned earlier. And just a few years later than that, the whole church discontinued use of those "shield" clothes; you would just wear regular clothing, even for that ordinance; and again, the officiator would only lay hands on top of you head, and nowhere else. I think most people prefer it this way. But I repeat, being naked was never part of the situation.
Believe me, if things going on in these temples were as bad as that poster makes them out to be, I would have no part in it, and I would be publicly decrying it. I speak up if I have a problem with general practices, or individual people's behaviour. (And, for the record, that is something a cult will never let its members get away with. But I stand up to peers, and even to my leaders, if I believe they are doing something that harms others. I still haven't been kicked out for that.)
Anyway, I know a lot of what happens in a temple seems weird or disorienting, if it's not something you feel you identify with. But that's ok. Nobody is being forced, and nobody should feel obligated to participate in things if it makes them uncomfortable. (And yes... I think a lot of Mormon parents need to understand that better, rather than pressuring their young adult children into things they're not on-board with. I think my brother would have been much happier if our parents had let him just pass on all of this stuff.)
Well, hey, at least you have some positive memories to hold onto. I hope those are comforting in some way, and that life keeps being happy for you.
@@LamanKnight I'm also a member and have been to the temple. Like a couple of the people in the story, I knew nothing going in. I've been a member since I was 9 and first went to the temple when I was 20 and I was a little bit shocked at the rituals in the process. Not that any of them were BAD per-se... but some parts just don't carry the same vibe that church practices do. Suddenly you're wearing hats and things. At one point there was a prayer circle. I didn't expect the movie either but.... I just didn't expect a movie at all.
Nothing bad... just odd... or things that felt like they might be a part of other church practices but not ours.
I can verify what you said about the initiatory ordinance. No nakedness, not even just garments. I put on my temple dress immediately after I got my garments and then went through the rest of the thing. No weird touching or anything like that.
I mean as stated I was already jarred so if it had gone down that path I would have been OUT.
Woohoo! Finaly, someone who knows that the cults these storys are talking about are not LDS!
(btw, I am lds as well)
@@LamanKnightSo; "Yes, they do grope their genitals, but it's all so very ceremonial and meaningful!" :p
I always had the feeling something was off when my mom joined her new church but i became convinced of it when she forced me to join the youth group, basically there would be meetings every saturday where non-members would be divided into groups with one or two members as a guide, and they would have a weekly theme you would discuss in the group, the members would use this to assess if you were worthy of joining the youth group and if you were they would choose you to go to a weekend spiritual retreat they did as an initiation for new members that they were extremely secretly about and just referred to as The Experience, non-members werent allowed to know what it was about. It was basically just a weekend long violation of the geneva conventions. We were kept blindfolded for hours, sleep deprived, weren't allowed to know what time it was or even Where we were, all the doors and gates were locked, had everything that wasn't clothes and basic toiletries taken away for the weekend, it legitimately felt like being held hostage
after that, youth group members were treated as free labour for whatever the church felt like it (most of us were between 13 and 17 btw so Child Labour at that)
the self serving bastard who made up that whole recruitment and brainwashing system died alone in an ICU from c0v1d unable to do anything for himself which always brings me joy and comfort
Jesus did say "those who live by the sword, will die by it,".
Reading the ending of this made me smile a bit inside. Hope you’re doing okay, friend.
I had been raised in a church that handled snakes and "fell out in the spirit" often. Being 6 i thought that snakes must be really cool if the pastor man was always handling them in church, so I got a snake plushy and brought it in to the church for my Sunday school. I had the plushy ripped away from me and I was scolded about "Bringing the Devi" into the church. I started questioning the doctrines almost instantly and was physically beaten over it at the house i grew up in...... while being taught to use my body (yes, in that way) to bring people in to the church. When I did become promiscuous but acted for my self and not bringing people into the church the people in charge of caring for me threatened to once again kick me out. I finally called their bluff, ended locked out for a night which I took as "Okay, this really is an unhealthy situation" and I began to run away at 13. I managed to stay away from the house and the church for the next 5 years when i had to make some personal appearances to get my items that were being held hostage, pretended to come back to the faith for a week while strategically moving every thing I could grab of mine and run to a friends couch. I kept up the couch surfing for the next 3 years and found my spouse when i was 21. I am still recovering from everything that happened including the fact that I actually believed being "touched" (in those ways) was a "holy thing". I was way too young. I ended up having to let go of every thing, biological family, friends, the only supports I had. Still... I got my self out.... not a lot of other people can get out of the "Children of God" .
Thought that sounded like the CoG/FI when you brought up the “recruitment” methods they made you carry out. They called that “Flirty Fishing.” Source of some of the most horrifying cult stories I’ve ever heard.
dude that's a lotta horrible, I hope you get better soon
What a crazy, demonic cult that is ..run...run...run...
Yeah the devil wasn't the snake.
Does this church still exist?😢 I thought it was something from the sixties
The story of the woman who had to give birth to her baby without lungs was heartbreaking and horrifying 😢
"It works for some, not for others."
This. I'm VERY devoted to Judaism and the Jewish people. However, I'm also apatheist, and don't see the logic in an afterlife. I'm content to see my body return to the big cycle of life and death. If Ha'Shem exists, cool, but it won't affect how I live.
What the eff is apatheist? I never heard of that term before.
@@jstrahan2 Google
@@jstrahan2 It's a portmanteau of "apathy" and "theist". Just means that I don't care if there's a G-d or gods.
@@SewardWriterbut doesn’t agnostic sufficiently describe that sentiment?
@@CSmith-tn8nv its literally the difference between someone who doesn't know and someone who doesn't care, i guess practically that just means one maybe open to swaying with reason or evidence etc the other ....... well.... just doesn't care.
from my personal experience it tends to be used more by people who identify with the community, culture or ideology but dont really believe in the more magical or mystical aspects of a religion. of course i cant speak for the OP in that regard, just my own observations.
there are many flavour of atheists out there, i tend to describe myself as an "Orwellian atheist" in reference to a line in one of George Orwell's novels: “He was an embittered atheist, the sort of atheist who does not so much disbelieve in God as personally dislike Him" :)
Here's the thing, as a Christian, it infuriates me to no end when I hear stuff about this. Because I follow God, and I have been raised to believe that he is the god of love, second chances, forgiveness and redemption. But my so called "brothers and sisters of Christ" don't even try to follow our teachings, and instead use it as an end to means. (For money, power, or even sexual pleasure) It breaks my heart when I hear this, because I just can't wrap my head around how many people could see this and think it's okay. If anything, it's fucking ironic, and the way Christians are being taught is backwards now. Yes, Christians are taught to love their neighbor, yet they will abuse homosexual people, transsexual people, if someone has a different lifestyle, they will shame them for not following their cult-like day routine. I have a feeling, that most Christians these days are much like Jonah from the book of, well, Jonah. They expect Jesus to come back and be just as hateful and twisted as they are, when in reality, they would probably be no better than the romans who crucified him in the first place. Even still, after leaving my abusive mother's household, I have to mentally stop myself from thinking in my old judgmental, backwards thinking sometimes. Because I cannot judge a person's character, because I know nothing of them. Just because somebody may look like a bad person for having tie dye shirts and dyed hair, doesn't mean they worship the devil, and just because somebody else may wear a cross on their neck, doesn't mean they haven't beat their child recently for having the gall to speak up about something. This thinking has led me to make some great friends whom I still talk too often, and I am grateful to God for these simple blessings.
Sorry about that rant, if you made it here, thanks, I hope you have a great day, take care.
Former Seventh-day Adventist here. For me it wasn't a "moment" but a gradual realization. It just gradually made less and less sense to me that they claim to live "by the Bible, and the Bible only," and yet they have whole libraries of books written by one Ellen G. White that you'd better believe or else. In church I heard one older man say that he can tell when someone is "in danger of leaving the truth," his words, when they start questioning what Mrs. White says. And in so-called Bible study, I asked a question about something in one of her books, and where is that found in the Bible? The facilitator anwered that "we know Mrs. White was inspired, so we don't question what she says." That's right, you are not allowed to question or disagree with anything Ellen G. White says. They don't believe in "the Bible only." They believe in the Bible as filtered through the writings of Ellen G. White.
At this point, we should start calling it Ellen G. Whitism.
Sounds eerily familiar. I wasn’t raised to worship Joseph Smith or Brigham Young; you just couldn’t question a single word they ever wrote or uttered. But as long as we SAY we aren’t worshipping leadership, then that’s fine.
When they required me to talk with a stranger head cultist about things I have done in privacy. I was also weirded out by chanting in groups for an hour a week.
The priests and nuns started to tell us girls that we were less than men because Eve tempted Adam with an apple. I noped out then and there.
That's not what the Jesuits taught us boys. When Adam ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, that's when everything turned to shit. If Adam had simply said no, everything would still be cool. Instead, he ate of the fruit and then made the first step into evil when he lied to God that it was all Eve's fault, as though he himself had no free will and was unable to refuse. Eve's offer.
What they taught there was way against Catholic teaching and I'm sorry you went through that.
8:34 Wouldn't that be the opposite? Wouldn't making your body weak make it easier for your soul to escape? WHY AM I TRYING TO RATIONALIZE CULT THINGS!? 😅
In Lds (Not a great start, I know), we have the four pillars, Psychical, Social, Intellilectual, and Spiritual.
it sounds like game balance logic tbh. if you put all your stats into physical then you must be using spirituality as your dump stat... somehow
maybe the soul gets stronger when you work out, and they gain more force than the body, maybe that could explain it, but it is weird that the soul would get out in the first place
On Story 5 what did the father think when the Duggar family were exposed to scandal and getting their reality show canceled? I wonder if the Duggars were in a cult themselves?
The Duggars are big advocates for the Quiverfull movement, which, is a cult. They believe in things like blanket training, that you're 'raising children to be soldiers of god' and all sorts of crazy stuff. There's an excellent video on youtube called 'Growing up Quiverfull' that talks about this specific cult and their belief systems.
I think they had their own cult inside a cult. All families work little bit like a cult, just less toxic and overwhelming, but the Duggars made me appreciate my crazy dysfunctional family. Girls in that family.. heartbreaking.
They are indeed in a cult. It's called the Quiverfull Movement. It's more of an ideology than a specific denomination, but I personally would still label it a cult.
The Duggars cult is called IBLP. It's leader is Bill Gotthard, who surprise surprise was a sex predator.
They now are the head of that cult actually
12:19 it doesn't matter the "intention", that is sexual abuse, and it seems they're doing it to children. Letting intention dictate what qualifies as abuse is how you let these people get away with such heinous acts.
Even if they didn't feel any sexual attraction from performing this act, doesn't mean it isn't sexual abuse.
I want to join with the other members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the comments and respond to some of the things mentioned in the video, specifically regarding the temple. I can only speak to the temple as it is today. To my knowledge, the touching of private parts was NEVER a part of the temple. The film about Adam and Eve is a thing, and the actors who play Satan (there have been five versions of the film I'm aware of; I've seen four) get to chew the scenery more than anyone else in the film. It's probably unintentionally the most fun role to play (and watch) in the film; so I 100% understand the comment about giggling when Satan came on. Fun fact about the temple film; the church got permission from Disney to use footage from Fantasia in the first version (probably to depict the creation of the world).
One post mentioned chanting; it's there, and I was uncomfortable with it for a long time. I didn't understand why, and I'm the person who really likes understanding things. This video is what finally got me to examine it. I suspect chanting is seen as weird is because it's uncommon in Western societies. But if you look at chanting from a historical perspective, or even just in other modern cultures, it's a common, ordinary practice. I would argue it is still common practice even in Western Culture, just not for religious reasons. I don't care much for them, but most sporting events I'm aware of involve chanting of some kind in support of one team or the other. From a purely logical standpoint, I can't see how chanting in a church or temple is much different from chanting in a sports arena (aside from contents), and I'm sure most people here wouldn't have much issue participating in the latter. Weird? Maybe. Bad? No.
Now if we instead assume OP was bothered by the contents of the chants, and by extension, everything taught in the endowment, well, that's a bit more understandable. For the record, I have zero issues with any part of the endowment: it's essentially a very thorough explanation of our relationship with Christ, and Christ's purpose and mission. However, my first experience going through the temple was like drinking from a firehose: overwhelming and unpleasant. I definitely didn't grasp everything I was being taught or the covenants I was agreeing to, and I definitely asked myself the "is this a cult?" question when going through the first time, and for a while after that. There's a TON of information that is being crammed into about 90 minutes (an improvement from the multiple hours when they first started), and I suspect nobody prepared him for any of it. That was basically my experience, and I was raised in the church. A common flaw among members of the church is that we avoid talking about things we consider sacred, often to the point of not talking about them at all, and it's caused major problems. I think this is more a cultural thing than something ever taught as doctrine, though I don't think a lot of people understand the difference (like the whole caffeine thing).
You might even compare it to another major topic members of the church hold sacred (and by extension don't talk enough about): intercourse. I'm assuming the majority of people in the comments would describe intercourse as good, necessary, great, or fantastic, so hopefully we can all at least agree on the value of it. However, if adults have only ever talked to you about marriage and NEVER about the birds and the bees, odds are you're going to be traumatized on the night of your wedding, and that will deeply stain your perception of the act. I bring this up to illustrate that while something can be good, if it's not talked about properly, or not discussed at all, it can be overwhelming, traumatic, or even harmful to someone unprepared to receive it.
As a final note on temples; despite a rough introduction to the endowment, I never regret going, even if it's only because the temple is quiet and peaceful. Seriously, if one opens up near you, they have open houses before the dedication where they let the public walk through; don't miss it. It's a vastly different feeling inside a temple. But specific parts of the ordinances that happen within have been inspiring to me in many ways, and contributed directly to my personal growth.
TL;DR: Context and preparation is vital to understanding and appreciating what happens in LDS temples.
Regarding other comments regarding Joseph Smith, I've heard the claims about intercourse with minors and so on time and time again. I served my LDS mission in Utah, where there's a surprisingly strong anti-LDS population (must be getting sick of all the Mormons there), so I've heard it all. I've looked into it, and I've never found anything to convince me it ever happened.
If anyone is curious, here are two official Church resources that, together, describe much of the endowment ceremony: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/temples/what-is-temple-endowment?lang=eng (Describes 90% of the ceremony)
www.churchofjesuschrist.org/tools/temple-prayer-roll-submission?lang=eng (Describes the prayer circle not described in the first article; also the only part of the endowment where participation isn't expected).
I am lds to, and I am a little confused as to why people say chanting and movies and stuff. My experience with the temple is this: I walk in, confirm I am allowed to go in (A sllip of paper from my bishop) and go sit down in a chapel like room. Temple workers talk about things, I ddont remember what they say, but it sounded all right to me, and we go and pt on a pair of under-wear and a baggy jumpsuit. We go and do baptisms for the dead, and then do conformations for the dead. Then we leave.
@@devinjamesonjr.7688 Baptisms for the dead is just one ordinance that's performed in the temple. There are others like the endowment (which most people get before going on a mission or at least before getting sealed), and sealings (marriage) that happen in other parts of the temple. I would recommend reading what you can in the Gospel Library about the endowment, temple worship, and sealings. Most wards offer temple prep classes; I actually don't believe I took those before going through the temple myself, though I would recommend taking them. Both pages I linked in my previous comment should be helpful, and there are plenty of other articles made available to the public by the Church that discuss the other ordinances.
@devinjamesonjr.7688 They're adults talking about other things to do in the temple. (I've randomly forgotten what it's called.) I'm assuming you've only done Bathtisms. Those are a lot more simple. Sooo yeah.
The LDS signals cult in a lot of ways. I think when discussing any religion we have to remember there are subsets of people who are abusers taking advantage of others, and other true devotees who are good people. But, the bad things about Joseph Smith are true. Sorry I can’t give you citations - I will look them up and post later. But he was a con artist. The attitudes toward women are full on cultish. Secret temple rituals is cultish. Treatment of missionaries is very cult-like. The superiority complex of those in the church is a cult thing. No non-mormons in the Temple (excluded from family weddings) totally cultish. The LDS simply wrote fiction and passed it off as the word of God. Forced tithing. Male hierarchy. The busybodies who visit you in your homes, to check up on you - cult. Failure or refusal to educate (sexuality, history) cult. Use of propaganda. Denial of own historical facts - cult. Oppressing critical thinking skills. Judgment and shaming and guilt-trips - very much a cult.
Agree with you about chanting. It is a group bonding thing and we see it outside of religion - sports, politics, rock concerts. The thing of it is, how often and for how long? And is it linked to divinity? Is it being forced on you? That needs to be examined.
I get the same things with Joseph Smith looking through historical records and sifting through orders and grants HELL i even went as far as to look into police records and investigations (at least the heavily limited number of them still around or weren't just "he's guilty case closed") and NOT A SINGLE ONE ever gave definitive evidence no due process ever conducted just an assumption of guilt due to "testimony" and lets us not forget testimony can be and is often wrong in fact in law it is seen as the lowest form of evidence due to you having five people and every single one of them can say something different it such wild manners it is baffling hell there have been cases of robbery where the guys face was visible to dozens of people and FOUR different races were accounted amongst the testimony taken from witnesses.
Happened when i learned about the BITE model, but that was year's after i left the church.
Probably from Owen Morgan's "Telltale" channel?
@ConfusedNyan It probably was tbh cuz I listen to him!
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. I never really questioned them, not until i was 15. I was diagnosed with schizophrenia, and apparently my hallucinations were the devil trying to get me or something. All of my friends, instantly shunned me. My kinda secret jw girlfriend, she dumped ke while i was in the phych ward gwtting treatment for the first time. I had no idea what was happening to me, and they tossed me aside. What's worse is they tried to get my mum to stop having contact with me. Her 15 year old child. That's when I knew. There was so much more that i noticed after the fact. Im just grateful it happened.
My 9th Trump rally i had a moment of clarity and realized i was letting Trump burn my money, I had given up all the relationships I had with my loved ones for him, and and after nearly a decade of supporting him my life is way worse off than before I ever heard of him.
Good for you!!!!
welcome back to reality, it can be scary but its got far less hate then the MAGA universe.
Ever wonder why his tactics are similar to a infamous Austrian painter with an iconic mustache?
But seriously it's scarily similar..
Look up how the "painter" gained such a following.
@@shadow1150zz Iconic mustache painter really should've been accepted into art school. Would've saved the world a whole lot of trauma.
Glad you got out.
I had a run in recently with a guy who was fishing for information from me about where I had gone to school and stuff and then started talking about his god and if i wanted to go to heaven.
I spooked him by turning the tables on him and speaking in the same kind of calming, religious tone I've had people use on me but instead of preaching about gods i told him about the Void. A state of non being where you will cease to exist in every concept. How the Void does not discriminate or punish, it welcomes everyone, the guilty and innocent equally. As i kept describing he finally turned away from me and was like "i have to go this way now goodbye" and just hustled away.
I need to try being scary like that
12 and read the Bible for myself. Started to ask questions. Got asked to leave the church ⛪️ at 14.
I grew up Mormon, and I'm not surprised with how many stories there were from other ex Mormons. There's not much I can say that wasn't in this video, but there's probably something if I think about it
Getting worldly experience is what helped me really question my faith and find myself.
It's wise to get a big dose of the worldly experience before messing with the otherworldly. LOL.
The person going from a homeless shelter to getting their own apartment is huge.... just having physical address that isnt a church or a homeless shelter is HUGE when trying to actually get employment some where. If you dont know... If you are filling out and application and either dont put an address or put a shelter/church's address in and the employer decides to look up the address or notices no address, they will just straight up throw out your application assuming things about you, but also not giving you a chance to improve your situation...
My wife is part of the Latter-Day Saints church and she joined a woman's club when we first moved into our new home and she started going to a different church... didn't last long. The women in that group were trying to convince them all that they needed to drop any non-members and only marry within that church. Taylor didn't go to another meeting and got so uncomfortable that she started driving 2 hours every Sunday to stay with the church she was originally at... I attended on event with her as a non-member and they were all pretty rude to me. I think there was judgement about me being military aswell. The original church were all fantastic, I have no issues attending an event with her as a non-member.
I was born and raised in a fundamentalist Mormon cult. I cant actually pinpoint when i realized it. It has been a gradual process, and even after ten years of not attending church, i am still seeing deeper layers of programming and control.
What ended up taking me out of it was that my brother and i (doing what they told us to do, think about things and know the truth for ourselves) started having discussions in our late teens about religious ideas we had been taught. These would often get heated, nearly violent, but it added up to me deciding at 25 that i needed to sort out these beliefs and really make sense of it all.
I took up martial arts, which (long story short) eventually led me to study Tai Chi and Taoist meditation, and the more i practice those, the deeper i see through the layers of cults that make up our society.
The term "functional cult" is a good one. The great religions are all functional cults. All popular political parties are functional cults, as are successful businesses. Governments are cults.
The question is not "are you in a cult", because unless you are a bushman, truly living wild in nature, the only question that matters is which cults you include yourself in and what are the rules they play by?
This is the case because the goal of every cult is to concentrate the power of many people into the hands of a single leader. Any group who's practices require that you give up your choice in any degree without some kind of direct way of returning equal value back to (if that is even possible) is a cult designed to enslave.
I have yet to encounter any legal or religious group that doesnt display some kind of belief in giving away your autonomy in the form of obodience.
*With sticky sweet sarcasm* For your own protection of course, because daddy, or mommy, or god, or whoever we believe is smarter or stronger than we ourselves are, knows best for us than we ourselves do.
The shitty thing is that on extrememly rare occasions, we may encounter an individual capable of perceiving us with greater clarity than we are able to perceive ourselves from our inside perspective, and it is even more rare that we are in a state of being that allows us to truly benefit from such sages. Also, there are many who pretend to such knowledge, and pretending is quite possibly the first skill developed by consciousness. We are all very good at pretending.
So far, me and two of my brothers are the only ones from our family to leave the cult though we still live local. My oldest sister is on the path out, and even my mom has started questioning the religion a little, which honestly surprises me the more i deprogram myself. It seems like if a person gets married in this cult, the likelihood of them ever leaving just dropped like a rocket falling into a star. If they do leave, it will only be because shit is exploding and falling apart.
This saddens me… As a Christian myself I can’t help but feel frustrated that cults like these taint the good news of Christ like this even though I have some beliefs most do not agree with.
What saddens me, is what some evangelical and other "Christian" churches are doing to Christianity.
Yeah another day I got followed at a public park by a christian speaking on a mic that I was dead and needed god, because I politely refused a flyer and even said "give that to someone who wants it" I have nothing to do with christianity or want to, if I picked that flyer up it would go straight to the trash bin just a few meters away
Honestly I understan your Problem quiet well
i mean, you rejected what...like 1500 other gods throughout history? How do you think lord oonga bunga feels that you don't love him and his gifts of fire and beans?
I genuinely hope you aren't calling racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. "some beliefs." I was raised Roman Catholic and it was drilled into me at a young age that any person using god as an excuse to shame or hate others was not following God's will.
Aight that's all.
6:33 Ahhhh. Nothing like the Quiverfull cult.
Wow, ex Mormon here and it’s kind of hilarious to hear 3X Mormons in a row. Talk about leaving a cult. I left four years ago and I’ve never been happier.
As an LDS (mormon) member, the stories here seem so alien. The area i’m in is so welcoming, non- judgmental and constantly talks about how you have your freedom of choice, and how being in the church should be something you WANT to do and it should relieve you of any heavy things you carry. It’s all about love.
All these other stories sound like questionable churches that branch off the main LDS church or just some particularly horrible area. I really hope all these stories in the video have found peace and happiness.
I grew up in the LDS (Mormon) church. I've had some amazing and some terrible experiences in the Church. I didn't lose faith in the teachings. What I lost faith in was the people. My father had several affairs but my mom was blamed for divorcing him. A Bishop actually screamed at me for my mother's bad attitude. So many of the members are hypocrites. I just couldn't stand it anymore.
I now happily live as a Jack-Mormon. Basically I still believe and live by many of the teachings but I refuse to step foot into a Church ever again. I try and be a good person and treat everyone like I want to be treated.
That is horrible to hear i am glad you found your way and keep to the teachings to the best of your abilities it is all that can be asked of us.
I have pretty much the opposite experience. When expressing doubts or the lack of belief, people always jump to the line "the people aren't perfect, but the church is!"
But from my point of view they had it backwards. Most mormons are good people, committed to a horrible organization masquerading as a church that may make them do bad things
Not an actual cult, at least I don’t think so, but I was really young so who knows. It was a very well known Christian school, grades K to 12, that I was forced to attend for one year-5th grade-just because my brother wanted to go to high school there. Some of the scariest religious people I have ever met.
Dresses had to be down to your ankles with no cleavage or shoulders showing. Shoes were flats, no sandals and no straps. Sneakers were allowed for P. E. only.
You and your peers went to the bathroom at the same time and were monitored by your teacher. If you spent more than the allotted time in the bathroom, you got in trouble.
Every single subject was slanted to discuss the Bible. I had a science report on the T-Rex that was docked points every single time I “made a false claim” about the dinosaur. And I’ll never forget getting the paper back and seeing the question “where does the Bible say this?” written over every single scientific fact.
Math class didn’t exist. History class was only about the Biblical locations and individual (though heavily kid-edited) people’s stories.
We attended church on Monday mornings (there is a church on the campus) till lunch time. And if you got in trouble during church you weren’t allowed to eat.
Any kind of “girly” stuff, like makeup, jewelry, fashion magazines, that was deemed “immodest” was confiscated and the entire female population of the class was taken to an empty room and forced to sit through a degrading, accusatory lecture about how it was not the woman’s place to pick her own appearance, how objects like nice clothes and jewelry and cute shoes would tempt the men and if they hurt us it was our fault, how a woman’s appearance was decided on by her husband and how it was sinful to disobey what your man wanted.
If you had special needs that were not physical, then you did not have special needs you were just “a difficult child” who needed stronger discipline than your peers.
Girls had to wear their dresses during P.E. And if you got it dirty or ripped or anything you got in trouble.
Getting “in trouble” was either a paddling or some kind of punishment that isolated you. For example, I spent too long in the bathroom and was shunned for the remainder of that class period. I stayed in the room, at my desk, but I was completely ignored by the teacher and all my peers. At the end of the class, my teacher walked up to me, smiled, and said “you missed last class period, this affects your participation grade.”
I was forcefully “saved”. This was the incident where I remember I just shut down. Now, I was raised a Christian. Did the church on Sunday and Sunday School classes thing too. Also Bible Camp in summer. My parents, however, had always told me that I shouldn’t call myself “saved” until I understood my religion and felt “moved by God” to come to him. Well, 5th grade me did not understand my religion to my satisfaction yet so I did not consider myself saved yet. But I did believe I would get there. So about halfway into my 5th grade year we had our mandatory Monday church service and the pastor told everyone to close their eyes and requested that the students who were saved raised their hands. I did not raise mine. Upon returning to the classroom, my teacher pulled me aside and told me I could not return to class because we needed to talk. What followed was an hr and 1/2 of standing in the hall by the classroom doorway with the door closed, getting alternately terrified and bullied into getting saved. I felt so pressured to do as I was told it was scary. My teacher had made me miss lunch, a bathroom break, and two class periods by the time I just said the prayer to shut her up and get permission to use the bathroom. Bathroom permission was denied and instead she walked me back into the classroom where every single student hugged me and welcomed me into the kingdom. Nothing ever felt so hollow, so unwanted, so anti-Christian to me as that experience. It felt wrong and very cult-like. I was deeply uncomfortable. That was the day I decided I was not returning to the school the next year.
Oh yeeeeahhh I forgot about how you need to pay as a mormon until story 16. It’s called your “tithing” and its supposed to help the church or something. You have to pay like ten percent of whatever you made that week to them or sum. I never did that because they never did anything with the church despite everyone saying it’s “helping” the church.
They'll also try and get you into byu, Brigham young university. Insanely expensive and pretty much entirely in service of the faith. You could grow up to be a window washer for em if you try hard enough.
@@kevinthefox yup.
@@kevinthefox I'm lds, and yes we do tithing, (Not going into to it because it'll just be pointless) but it's not like they try to get you into byu. Also, prices for college are insanely high anyways.
Cough, cough, building repairs, cough, cough
@@GraphiteGrin Yes, BUT THEY DONT! WE HAVE HAD A BROKEN MIRROR IN THE BATHROOM FOR THE PAST 3 YEARS EVERYONE TELLS THEM ABOUT, AND ITS STILL THERE
Funny how "submitting to the Holy Spirit" so often includes the women having to sleep with the leader. 🤔
Also, Mike Rinder describes life in the Sea Org in his book. It's amazing, and not in a good way.
That one that wanted him to intentionally get sick and weak sounded like they were trying to set him up to become some sort of victim and didn't want him to be strong enough to fight back. Not sure i want to know what they had planned for him.
I went to a Baptist church in the 80's. I think it was 82 that had Halloween on Sunday. The preacher had one of those come to Church in your costume and best one gets a prize type contests. We all thought it would be great. As a kid I couldn't imagine how anything could go wrong on this one. Some of the teenage kids were wearing more creative costumes that looked like grotesque monsters from some kind of horror movie. It was no more than a couple dozen or so who were actually doing this. The preacher railed at them. At first I agreed with him. But then he went on to conflate it to all of us. We were all doing this. Of course he had his son dressed up as Moses with the ten commandments. Not a bad costume by any means. It was not the most creative one there but it was decent. I was put off by this because my costume was not a demon but he said it was. We were all dressed up as little demons. One boy had a superman costume. Superman is a demon? E.T. is a demon? Batman is a demon? There was even a girl in an angel costume. Pretty sure this preacher was blaspheming the holy spirit by calling her a demon. Up until that day his church had a big following. In a fit of rage he gave the trophy to his son and continued his deluded rant. After that day his cult following was much smaller. He was detached from reality until the day he died. But I will never forget that biased deluded tirade of his. That was not the only thing that clued me in that this religion was a cult but it was definitely the most immediately obvious clue. I now believe in reincarnation. And I believe that you should avoid these "religious" groups.
Protip: if you had to burn anything that you don't like and then hold a kumbaya circle around the bonfire, you're probably in a cult.
That's a movie stereotype. I'm gonna paint you a picture so bare with me. A friend invited you and you come coz maybe you're bored or lonely and wanna have fun anyways to went with him and its a church so setting achieved. Now it's all too cheerful or very sad and the clear thing is it's gonna be intense like its either too happy or too sad. There's gonna be a gorgeous girl or boy there, it's an obvious bait and it works. Then someone will approach you, always there's a guru esq that approaches you and what you'll notice is they are usually very touchy like intimate touchy and if you are new to all that its gonna weird you out or if you swing that way you'll feel odd about it moving on. Then i hope you come back and you did coz interested the next one is gonna be normal, the next one is normal as well and then the nature retreat now this is the good luck stage no way out and they got you and this is the horror scene you will see odd behaviour like new faces so on and its gonna be a few days and its gonna be hiking so you are tired and thats what they want coz its easier to nuke someone whose just wanna end the day and sleep. Then its gonna be a sequence of trippy things and usually its gonna have the obvious things like intimacy, very intimate touchy feely and now you are stuck to participate and hopefully you have the nerve to say no in the middle of nowhere like say no and they'll get upset so thats it good luck.
Not me, but my niece. She married into it. But realized her mistake when they were talking about an arranged marriage for her newborn daughter. With a kid who was already 11 years old. She took her daughter and fled in the middle of the night. Our family had to hide them both for years. They sent thugs trying to find them on two separate occasions, and hired a private investigator - who reported nothing once he learned why they wanted her found. The PI already knew they were skeezy, but didn't know the half of it.
Waiting for my whole high school class and OSU to wake up.
you should do one about piercers/tattoo artists' worst experiences at their first shop. almost every single artist i know (and, even myself included) have very interesting/terrible experiences working for their first shop.
My moment was learning we had a secret book that women would get excommunicated for touching.
Scientology seems more like a cult of corporation, rather than a cult of religion.
13:48 the complete opposite to this is when you have no obligations to attend a religious ceremony and still decide to be there and disrespectful.
I’m really, really sorry, but I need to vent because I haven’t told this to anyone!
I have a similar experience to this, but it’s a completely different perspective, from someone who is a devout Christian and also has sensory overload issues.
I went to a Catholic girl school, and sometimes, when we were approaching easter or Christmas there was mass. Now, you HAD to go to the Chapel, that was obligatory, but you didn’t have to pray or participate in the celebration. If you were atheist or Muslim or any else, you could just go to the other rooms and chat with your friends.
Now, what really bothered me was the girls who weren’t Christian but still decided they wanted to participate. That’s okay, wanting to learn about another religion is totally alright, but the problem was that they weren’t respectful about it.
Once, at an easter celebration, I was trying to pray because, yk, God is good and he gave me so many opportunities (I’m trans, so the fact that there was a Christian *girl* school that was willing to accept me as a woman was a huge blessing), but the girls behind kept whispering and giggling, and I turned to them and I whispered “hey could you be quiet? You know I have sensory problems, and plus it’s mass-“ but they cut me off and *very loudly* replied “no, we are telling each other a story!!!”
Like, they could have gone to the other room, they had no obligations to attend the ceremony, but they still decided to be *speak during the moment of silence so the others could pray!*
Anyway, great video, keep up the good work 👍
Sheez... did they get kicked out or anything?
I think it's important to state that not all christians are like that. I used to be one, I went to church regularly and it was full of the most loving, accepting, and kind people I've ever met.
11:33 what the hell!!? That is NOT what should’ve happened. That’s not what should happen at all. You just change into a jumpsuit in a stall.
Yes, I myself have gone to the lds (the actual name of the "mormon" church) and that was not a mormon church.
@@devinjamesonjr.7688You're actually forbidden to even call it "LDS". The edict passed down from the billionaire leaders is that it must always be referred to, long form, as "The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints" and absolutely nothing else.
@@chadvanderlinden9548not forbidden at all! And Russell M Nelson is worth about $3 million, most of which he earned as a renowned heart surgeon. Lie to yourself if you want, but not to others.
@@chadvanderlinden9548you can also just say the church of Jesus Christ and that is completely fine. I also think saying the whole thing is a bit tedious but I also understand wanting people to know that we are a Christ centered church
@@elizabethharris1851Oh indeed? Well, you know more about your cult than I do, so I'll defer to you. The name is still kind of presumptuous, isn't it? I mean, I am aware of a LOT of other churches that place top emphasis on jesus christ, so yours can simply not be THE church of jesus christ now can it? Good day, lost soul.
I was a part of a spiritualist group that was a fun, lighthearted place where we discussed intuition, spiritual and metaphysical topics, etc. The moment I realized the spiritualist church I took psychic development classes in was a cult: They had an event in the fall of 2015 where they brought in people that claimed they were channeling what are called ‘Ascended Masters’. Those are figures like Jesus and Buddha that brought teachings to the planet to raise consciousness. The leadership of the church brought in these weird people that felt off. One of them had a Jim Jones vibe and pretended he was a figure called Master Katumi. He introduced himself and immediately jumped into trying to sell us land in the middle of nowhere Oregon. That was the first of a handful of red flags. What confused me is that I trusted a friend that was part of be leadership of the church. She’s in her 70s, so I think she was being bamboozled of course and wasn’t fully aware of the things taking place. The second red flag that made myself and 4 of my friends leave is when they brought in a guy pretending to channel Jesus Christ. He looked like a druggie hippy. They did a seance event I attended before bolting out of their where they tried to channel messages through the Jesus imposter for people attending the seance. Turns out the Katumi Jim Jones wannabe was trying to gather women very subtly so that the could be his wives. I learned that long after my friends and I left. The church fell apart about 5 months later.
I'm pretty sure my high school was a cult marked as an outdoors boarding school for rich/troubled/inner city kids. i went for a year and after that year the school lost funding and shut down so I had to go somewhere else.
Isn't there a documentary about that place on Netflix? I'm pretty sure I saw a preview for it a few months ago. If that's the place you went, it sounds like you dodged a bullet by not getting stuck there for too long.
@@johnplaysgames3120 no, i know which one youre talking about and no I didnt go to one of those schools.
Im really glad to see a lot of posts about LDS Mormons here. Ive been struggling with leaving them because my family has been really deeply sucked into it but Ive been hurt and made ashamed of myself a lot at the hands of these “church leaders” who blame it all on me and tell me its because my lack of faith that they hurt and shame me.
You are not at fault for not wanting to be verbally abused. Having faith isn't meant to be a prison for suffering. You are fine and need not feel guilty in the least.
When I was studying to be a teacher, I did a placement at a non-denominational, Christian primary school that was 100% a cult. Australia has a national curriculum that all schools are *supposed* to follow. This school followed it alright, "the government wants us to teach you about evolution, but it's evil and not true, the scientists are lying to you" very clearly just hitting on the points of the lessons just enough to technically follow the curriculum.
That was bad enough, but then they turned to me and were like "Okay, your turn to brainwash the 10 year olds into thinking everyone outside this school is lying to them." Needless to say, I declined and failed the placement.
Ex-mormon here. Not about that. I wanted to learn to meditate for my anxiety. I went to a class with guided meditation. I attended for a few weeks and it was different but okay. Then one day I went and the president of the organization was there with her husband. I looked into her eyes when we were introduced. Her soul was dead. Her husband was cheerfully talking about their compound in the southern part of the state and how it was on a ton of ley lines. Huge red flags. I stayed for the meditation so they wouldn’t suspect anything. The meditation itself was very well done, but emphasized relaxing and following the guidance of the leader. I smiled, said I’d be there for next time, and left. Never went back. They were a cult. 100%.
13:34 This. This is one of the issues you get with religions, the "it's good for me so it MUST be good for everyone else" mentality. They seem to forget that its supposed to be a choice, and if that choice is forced then it doesn't do nearly as much good. Over zealous church members can do more harm than good, all with the "best" intentions, when they forget that.
You can still believe that your religion is the objectively best choice for everyone, while maintaining that conversion cannot be forced or coerced.
I found out that the books written by my pastor were written by ghostwriters, he gave financial advice (that he claimed was divinely inspired) to members who then ended up as much as half a million dollars in debt, he lied to the news about the abuses of church volunteers, and that he fired the whole family that ran our cafe (it was a megachurch) so that he could put his son in charge of it instead. He got the fancy jeep he drove around because a traveling preacher who was a friend of his came to my congregation and bullied us into getting the pastor a "love gift", the jeep. When I got mad and told my parents about (some) of my concerns, they chastised me for "sowing division in the church". If you questioned the pastors you were conversing with the devil.
As someone from Utah it's cracking me up to hear so many responses from mormons
LDS Mormon myself and ngl the stuff i've heard about members in Utah has been pretty sickening at times, so im not very surprised and it is very sad to see ppl taking advantage of anything for any bad reason....that and ppl confusing us with the "fundamentalist mormons" who are members who were excommunicated for various reason (be very careful with them)
*Story 9 : the "blessing" thing isn't supposed to exist, its very much someone to taking advantage of others faith !*
Back in the 90s some of the elders came to my house and seriously told me that I could no longer practice piano as it was taking my time away from the door to door work. That was it for me. So glad I woke up quickly!
Ex Mormon here.... I moved away from the church that I was baptized in... thousands upon thousands of miles away.... it took them about a year before they found my house and started asking if sister (my maiden last name) was here.... each time my husband tells them there is no one here by that name and closes the door on them... then MORE RECENTLY I got an invitation from the local chapter for a mixer with the SINGLES WARD.... im married.... but my husband never has... nor ever will be mormon...
Went to a fundamentalist non denom church in high school after my first true existential crisis. They all seemed so sweet and welcoming. Cut to 1. The time the youth leader called her dad the pastor to do an exorcism on a teenage girl alone in the basement and told us all not to tell anyone, the same youth leader telling me my tics were signs of demonic possession and finally cornering me with a bunch of my peers (humiliating) to intervene on my gayness which I was vehemently trying to "fix" at the time, so the fact that they still knew was a big indication that I couldn't "fix" it, and they had me sobbing because they told me I was gay because of my mom's morbid alcoholism. Awful. Just awful.
It feels wrong to watch this video while also playing Cult of the Lamb.
What an absolute legend
Christian here. Jesus didn't force belief on anyone. He even turned away believers who weren't believing for the right reasons. Cult's do not follow Christ.
Last story: U of TN, maybe because they lived in TN or perhaps they hated the U because of the Body Farm.
I realized I was in a cult as a child at age 14.
I grew up in a religious family of African descent, Umbandist; my grandmother was the head of the religion (here we call her yalorixá) long before I was born. There was a time when I was younger that I couldn't even participate in the meetings and rituals. Despite being born into the religion with a grandmother who was a leader in it, I was never properly taught about the dogmas and rituals, but it was always expected that I would know everything.
At 14, my grandmother was inducing me to be possessed by entities, and I had always expressed to her how much I was afraid of this because I understood that the orixás and entities were very dangerous and powerful to deal with and that I wasn't sure if it was something I wanted to be a part of. And there she was, inducing me to become incorporated with the entities. This type of thing is very heavy for a child to understand and deal with. She would get mad at me when I didn't want to participate because I had school the next day and was very tired.
All my life I've seen people come and go from my grandmother's temple thousands of times. They would enter the temple, become her disciples, do very heavy rituals in a short space of time, and then leave the temple because they had a very bad fight with my grandmother and after a while they would come back to attend. There is a woman who has done this at least eight times; I have known her since I was very young. People use Umbanda a lot as a means of personal gain and do not understand what it is and how the demands of the entities can affect their lives, especially when they engage in such rituals lightly.
Nowadays I have learned to live better with my belief in religion, but I no longer actively participate in the rituals or attend my grandmother's temple. Understanding that she had been forcing me to do these things since I was a child really messed with my head. I always was a very spiritual person, I mostly feel like my orixás are taking care of me and guiding me through life and they were the responsibles for my "awakening".
I'm seeing a lot of stories about strange and terrible things happening within the LDS church, and I happen to be a part of said church. I just want to say that not everything in the LDS church is bad, and I live a relatively happy life ("relatively" only because of external issues). Where I'm from, nothing is pressured upon, only suggested, and many of the things we are taught are entirely valid and great practices that have helped me be happier, smarter and wiser in my everyday life. I don't know all the circumstances of the stories/events detailed in this video, but I genuinely hope only the best for those involved. I just came to voice my opinion on the matter and possibly clear a few things up if anyone happened to be confused.
There was a great video from an ex-Mormon mother of 8 recently, about how she actually didn’t know what happiness or freedom were until she left the church. If your choices are presented as “you can get married and have kids and be a stay at home mom like a good Mormon or go to college and have a career and drink coffee and go to hell like bad women do” (paraphrasing) then they aren’t real choices,
@@ariadne0w1 I don't know much else to say other than I have not heard of any such things happening around me. If anything, this sounds a bit more like what I hear of Catholicism or archaic beliefs of my church from decades ago. At least where I am, people are encouraged to go to college, and we certainly wouldn't condemn anyone to Hell for something so... droll? (apologies, not entirely good with words) I don't know, it may just depend on region or local area. I know I'm in a more fortunate area, and I'll admit to being somewhat privileged and not having the full picture.
Edit: I also want to clarify that just because I haven't witnessed this myself doesn't mean it never happened, and I don't doubt that situations like this can happen. I am just giving my personal experience and perspective.
@@ajsloth707 I am sure some areas/church leaders are much better than others, and I was being unkind in my paraphrasing, not that I haven't heard things along those lines. Of course the main narratives I hear are from those who were disillusioned and deconstructed, not those who are happy with the church and it leads to uncharitable opinions of the organization as a whole. But wow there are so many stories from people who were so much happier then they left - and then again, if they were happy in the church they would have stayed and we don't hear from them.
@@ariadne0w1 Yeah, it all depends on perspective and what you know. And at the end of the day, all I ask is that people do their research before jumping to conclusions. Information is key. And of course, feel free to have and express your own opinions. Everything I say here is meant to be constructive criticism; nothing more, nothing less.
“there is no war in ba sing se”
My friend was in one. My mom was the one who told her family not to go there but the thing that was the biggest sign was when a plane crashed killing all leaders except one who became the new one leader. How strange, what a coincidence. She is now writing a memoir about it! I didn’t know until I looked up the church to see many many articles about it. It is “Remnant Fellowship” if anyone wants to look into it a bit more
I had a dream where I was in a cult and sleeping in tents a few months before I actually did that. It was a de javu moment where a scene from my dream matched what I was doing at the time that made me stop and realize that I was in a cult. I also got kicked out of that cult for not buying into the bullshit self-help the leader was 'teaching' us. Especially the part where he was the superman who brought us out of our dreary lives to give us better purpose and thus make us better people. 1 of my proudest achievements was shielding 2 younger girls from buying into that crap too. I got enticed there by a job, not knowing it was a cult.
I do believe in a higher entity. She warned me about it beforehand.
It's so interesting that you saw that in a dream
@@TsukinoUtokki its not the first time that kind of dejavu happened. That was the most significant though.
@@ToudaHell Im glad you received the warning!