One year on, this is more relevant than ever. Especially with the Tesla Superchargers being prepped for wider access in North America and 800V-capable EV manufacturers trying to work out if they can take advantage. If you havent had Dr. Euan back since, it would be great to hear from him again!
Good video but like most folks who talk about 800V+ you get hung up on the battery and charging. The real advantage comes behind the charging socket inside the car. Charging at a higher voltage allows the use of smaller conductors, and critically, smaller motors. This benefits not only the space needed, but critically it allows for more power. Today there are cars that can consume 800kW+. The Tesla Plaid does this with three heavy motors and three sets of thick cables from the battery to the motors. There is a 900V Lucid car of about the same maximum power that uses only two motors and each is significantly smaller and lighter than Tesla motors, even if leaving off the Tesla's reduction gears. Each Lucid motor. Each lucid motor is about 35% more powerful at max rated amperage. This does not only apply to costly and dangerously fast cars. Smaller and more economical components are needed if the automotive industry is to one day create vehicles that are price competitive to today's liquid fueled cars. I loved my 2011 Nissan LEAF, but the drive unit under the hood (motor, gears, inverter, & high voltage cables) probably weighed three times as much as any one drive unit from a Lucid. The Lucid makes almost exactly three times the power as well. I mention lucid because I know that car better. The Taycan rear drive unit is larger but in has a more complex transmission that automatically switches between two gear ranges. I have not seen physical specs for the Hyundai/KIA drive units. I will admit to not having looked. Hyundai/KIA has announced several large EVs coming to market soon, but I hope to see a significantly affordable vehicle from that group before long. Today with batteries and certain other components in short supply it only makes sense that automakers should strive to profit as much as possible from the limited number of cars they will be able to build until supply chains normalize (touch wood).
@@NevoEVReviewIreland not at all, I learned a lot from this video. I was thinking of it being in the same category as Jobs zooming with his fingers at the original iPhone event and everyone gasping in amazement. How the tech has come on... It's a great doc of where we are technically. Great to have an expert opinion on the charging Infrastructure. C
I’ve the ev6 and it’s so fast that I get it difficult to find time to eat and be back to the car before it’s charged. On occasion I’ve eaten then plugged in and charged. Fastest speed I’ve got is 235kws on an IONITY charger. Brilliant
Good to know the reason for the fast charging cables being kept as short as possible. Seeing a good reason for making manufacturers put in either a centre front or central back position for the charging port to keep the fast charging cables short.
Smaller cars will tend to stick to 400v for a long time. First is lower cost of Inverter components rated for only 400V and second, small cars have less overall battery cells so less available in series to maintain load current. Finally smaller cars will have less kwh capacity to benefit of faster charging isn't justified. All that said I agree, higher voltage are the future, just for bigger cars
Interesting and well explained by Dr. However, IMHO Ireland is such a small island geographically, Hyper fast charging seems of little benefit. Fine if one was doing high milage in geographically large countries such as France or Germany. ID4 @ 135kw on an ESB CCS 150kw HPC can add 500km range in 30mins, OR 300km range in only 20mins which seems more than fast enough on this small island. With home charging even 50kw is plenty good enough on this island.
I would disagree. No one wants to be sitting around charging bays . The one question i always get asked by curious public customers is how fast can it charge up and get going again.
@@Id3fornow... Fair comment. On this small island with todays longer range BEVs even smaller 50kWh cars rarely need more than 20mins on CCS to cross to anywhere on the island. Most 60kWh to 85kWh don't need any on route charging anyway. Motorway services car parks are full of petrol and diesel cars that spend an average of 25mins stopped for 'human factors' so a BEV is waiting for the human rather than the otherway around even with slower old 50kw DC/CCS chargers. In the past 3 years our elapsed total journey time to Kerry and Donegal are the same was when we had the diese, were never sitting around. Charging times are not the issue they used to be, yet there are occasions when newbies accidentally plug into AC on a motorway and then shocked to see a prediction of 6 hours to recharge a battery (user mistake). The public perceptions are that the charging infrastructure is not good enough and that it takes too long to charge, but that nozzle mentality we all became accustomed to.
Higher voltage means quicker charging time and most important: higher usage factor for the same charging unit is very useful in tourism intensive areas when charging infrastructure land space is expensive. I have an Ionic 5 and after a few months of charging experience, most people understand quickly the huge advantage of quick charging vs getting an increasingly bigger battery. Autonomy is not the only factor that interests technical oriented latests EV owners.
Presumably the higher battery voltage also keeps the heat down internally within the battery? I noticed your sly dig at people's perceived needs versus actual needs, regarding charging speed, adamantly stuck in the old ways. Good man 😁
Reply "That's a great question, and one to which I do not have an answer. Potentially it's because the cable is so short that the cooling requirements are less for a higher current, but I'm not 100% sure how Tesla has designed their V3 supercharger. If I find out the answer, I'll let you know."
@@starshipdriver8536 EA also has liquid cooled cables. Liquid cooled cables has to be the standard for all DC fast chargers if they want a chance to survive.
if only that were true but try telling my condo board that one🤣🤣🤣 they will be like but 240 volt is more power then 120 volt so the line cannot handle it🤣🤣🤣
Thank you Derek, a very important topic that needs to be shared and explained in an easy way for all drivers.
Thanks for the comment Bernard. Glad you enjoyed it. Must catch up soon.
Thanks Derek, more great content!
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it
loved this video, wanted to know the difference between 400 and 800V arch. and this video explains that beautifully, Thanks both
Glad it was helpful!
One year on, this is more relevant than ever. Especially with the Tesla Superchargers being prepped for wider access in North America and 800V-capable EV manufacturers trying to work out if they can take advantage. If you havent had Dr. Euan back since, it would be great to hear from him again!
Thanks Steve! He's a ⛲ of knowledge
Great stuff for EV drivers to know, thanks Derek and Dr. Euan!
Thanks Steve. Hope all's well
Great insight into charging etc. You can't beat a bit of knowhow
Well done Derek
Only 2 days to go till Jim's Shed goes EV
Thanks Jim. Big news coming soon! 🤣🤣
Good video but like most folks who talk about 800V+ you get hung up on the battery and charging. The real advantage comes behind the charging socket inside the car. Charging at a higher voltage allows the use of smaller conductors, and critically, smaller motors. This benefits not only the space needed, but critically it allows for more power.
Today there are cars that can consume 800kW+. The Tesla Plaid does this with three heavy motors and three sets of thick cables from the battery to the motors. There is a 900V Lucid car of about the same maximum power that uses only two motors and each is significantly smaller and lighter than Tesla motors, even if leaving off the Tesla's reduction gears. Each Lucid motor. Each lucid motor is about 35% more powerful at max rated amperage.
This does not only apply to costly and dangerously fast cars. Smaller and more economical components are needed if the automotive industry is to one day create vehicles that are price competitive to today's liquid fueled cars. I loved my 2011 Nissan LEAF, but the drive unit under the hood (motor, gears, inverter, & high voltage cables) probably weighed three times as much as any one drive unit from a Lucid. The Lucid makes almost exactly three times the power as well.
I mention lucid because I know that car better. The Taycan rear drive unit is larger but in has a more complex transmission that automatically switches between two gear ranges. I have not seen physical specs for the Hyundai/KIA drive units. I will admit to not having looked. Hyundai/KIA has announced several large EVs coming to market soon, but I hope to see a significantly affordable vehicle from that group before long. Today with batteries and certain other components in short supply it only makes sense that automakers should strive to profit as much as possible from the limited number of cars they will be able to build until supply chains normalize (touch wood).
Thanks for such a comprehensive reply! I'll pin it so others can read too. Appreciate your time.
This will seem like such a quaint video in 10 years. Here's hoping. Great content yet again Derek.
Thanks Cónan. I think all my videos are pretty quaint today 😂😂😂
@@NevoEVReviewIreland not at all, I learned a lot from this video. I was thinking of it being in the same category as Jobs zooming with his fingers at the original iPhone event and everyone gasping in amazement. How the tech has come on... It's a great doc of where we are technically. Great to have an expert opinion on the charging Infrastructure. C
Interesting topic, enjoyed that! Cheers Derek
Thanks for the comment. It won't get many views but I want to cover topics like this on the channel
I’ve the ev6 and it’s so fast that I get it difficult to find time to eat and be back to the car before it’s charged. On occasion I’ve eaten then plugged in and charged. Fastest speed I’ve got is 235kws on an IONITY charger. Brilliant
Thanks for the comment Gerry. They are serious speeds
Good to know the reason for the fast charging cables being kept as short as possible. Seeing a good reason for making manufacturers put in either a centre front or central back position for the charging port to keep the fast charging cables short.
Great idea Jason. Maybe that's why Kia Niro EV and MG charge at the front
@@NevoEVReviewIreland true, can see the EU formulating a few rules on that in time
Thanks Derek. The type of information I'm interested in. Wonder if Dr Euan still has his old LEAF.
Oh I should have asked. I think so
Great video, well explained.
Thanks for the comment Colin
Smaller cars will tend to stick to 400v for a long time. First is lower cost of Inverter components rated for only 400V and second, small cars have less overall battery cells so less available in series to maintain load current. Finally smaller cars will have less kwh capacity to benefit of faster charging isn't justified. All that said I agree, higher voltage are the future, just for bigger cars
Thanks for the comment and yes, it makes sense really for the bigger battery stuff
800v architecture + 3 phases on board charging is the real winner 🏆
Interesting and well explained by Dr. However, IMHO Ireland is such a small island geographically, Hyper fast charging seems of little benefit. Fine if one was doing high milage in geographically large countries such as France or Germany. ID4 @ 135kw on an ESB CCS 150kw HPC can add 500km range in 30mins, OR 300km range in only 20mins which seems more than fast enough on this small island. With home charging even 50kw is plenty good enough on this island.
Tend to agree Noel
I would disagree. No one wants to be sitting around charging bays . The one question i always get asked by curious public customers is how fast can it charge up and get going again.
@@Id3fornow... Fair comment. On this small island with todays longer range BEVs even smaller 50kWh cars rarely need more than 20mins on CCS to cross to anywhere on the island. Most 60kWh to 85kWh don't need any on route charging anyway. Motorway services car parks are full of petrol and diesel cars that spend an average of 25mins stopped for 'human factors' so a BEV is waiting for the human rather than the otherway around even with slower old 50kw DC/CCS chargers. In the past 3 years our elapsed total journey time to Kerry and Donegal are the same was when we had the diese, were never sitting around. Charging times are not the issue they used to be, yet there are occasions when newbies accidentally plug into AC on a motorway and then shocked to see a prediction of 6 hours to recharge a battery (user mistake). The public perceptions are that the charging infrastructure is not good enough and that it takes too long to charge, but that nozzle mentality we all became accustomed to.
Higher voltage means quicker charging time and most important: higher usage factor for the same charging unit is very useful in tourism intensive areas when charging infrastructure land space is expensive. I have an Ionic 5 and after a few months of charging experience, most people understand quickly the huge advantage of quick charging vs getting an increasingly bigger battery. Autonomy is not the only factor that interests technical oriented latests EV owners.
Presumably the higher battery voltage also keeps the heat down internally within the battery?
I noticed your sly dig at people's perceived needs versus actual needs, regarding charging speed, adamantly stuck in the old ways. Good man 😁
Thanks for the comment. Correct re the heat. Also correct re the sky dig 😉
Tesla's 250 kw (400v) with 650 amp has a thinner charger cable than ionity 350 kw with (800v) 500 amp. Explain that.
Above my knowledge, I've messaged Dr McTurk and will reply here once he gets back to me
Reply "That's a great question, and one to which I do not have an answer. Potentially it's because the cable is so short that the cooling requirements are less for a higher current, but I'm not 100% sure how Tesla has designed their V3 supercharger. If I find out the answer, I'll let you know."
@@NevoEVReviewIreland i am eagerly waiting for the interesting answer.
Tesla have liquid cooled cables for v3 supercharger cables.
@@starshipdriver8536 EA also has liquid cooled cables. Liquid cooled cables has to be the standard for all DC fast chargers if they want a chance to survive.
800v 's less hot
Another positive. Thanks!
if only that were true but try telling my condo board that one🤣🤣🤣
they will be like but 240 volt is more power then 120 volt so the line cannot handle it🤣🤣🤣