"Glitchless" Speedruns
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- I took an intro to logic class once. It was ok.
Special thanks to: Tompa, Robert T Mruczek, Dannyb21892, Shenanigans, and Blackbeltginganinja
Thanks to: Retro, Werster
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Twin Galaxies doesn't allow glitches, but they do allow cheating.
*angry Todd noises*
Yeah that segment didn't age well
They recently banned Todd Rogers from all the leaderboards so they're getting better
@@GreyeHazel we've been talking about it for months finally he's banned
lets not talk about this:
todd and billy knew each other and were the *2* biggest cheaters at *twin* galaxy.
you did not see anything
"Nah I dont run glitchless, I run glitch less. Totally different category"
@Fab Elger the portal speedruns have some pretty wacky things (going out of bounds, taking your camera away from your actual body, etc) but it's still speedrunning. not just anyone can do that, like not just anyone can 100% a game in such a short time. i dont know why you're so pissy
@Fab Elger people have different opinions. i enjoy glitched runs far more because it shows much better how far a game can really be pushed to its limits. if you dont like it, dont watch it, that simple.
@Fab Elger you are in a TIIIINY minority with that opinion
plus, its WAY more arbitrary, and alot of planning, when there arent glitchess, and sometimes its incredibly easy to play a game and do a glitch
@Zena Nakazato Define beating the game
nintendo: "well, if it doesnt crash the game, i guess its a feature!"
also nintendo: "if you make a glitch level on super mario maker, we're hiring a hitman"
Yeah but that's not fun, because I things like SMB1 it's not something that you're expected to find/know. Glitch levels block out a certain group that don't know the glitch also, if the glitch is patched tge level is impossible
Illford Official i heard that levels stay in the version they were uploaded in
if it's a glitch that adds more gameplay and general fun for everyone, then its a feature, if its a glitch that can be abused and could potentially ruin the fun in the future, then they hire a hitman.
trans rights
trans rights
foxhound Yeeeee trans rights 💖
when I started looking at speedruns yeeears ago, I interpreted 'glitchless' as in no clipping through the world and skipping intended play zones, etc. if you can kick to beak fall damage, well, it's just a movement mechanic now. if you move faster when you spin or roll, well, that's just part of the movement system. if you pick up a pallet and use it to fly over an invisible wall - uhhh it's getting kinda complicated I don't know
DeSinc play more hl2
Jk, but seriously, make more videos
ok
Bro your source shit is so crazy
@@miksu546 0o,
omg this guy
twin galaxies only have 1 rule and that is "billy mitchel and todd rodgers will stay on top even after their record is proven to be a cheat/glitch/lie"
Can you tell me about Todd Rogers please? I'm unfamiliar with that person. I'm aware of Billy mitchells though. Weirdly enough, I started speed running after discovering speed running through Billy Mitchells is a cheater videos.
@@pricelesssword4559 Todd Rodgers is pretty much just like Billy Mitchel when it comes to cheating except he's less likely to sue you when making a video about him... they are both friends of each other and if i'm not mistaken there's also a third friend involved who is in jail...
@@12DAMDO Thanks. I was only aware of Billy mitchells... what game was Todd Rogers most known for cheating?
@@pricelesssword4559
His most well known example I guess would be an Atari 2600 drag racing game where his supposed time was proven to be absolutely impossible
@@Full_Throttle_Axolotl oh actually I know about that one, thought that was Billy mitchells that did that... thanks a lot. Have a nice day!
"Is dying a glitch?" - SGDQ 2017
GingerGaming depends on the game, sometimes dying can be a glitch, or it can be used to glitch the game.
Dying Is an intended action. Suicide tho. It might be an exploit. Becouse you use something else in an unintended way.
In OOT dodongo cavern near the end if link dies on a switch the game thinks that the block you were supposed to put on the switch was there and the door stays open. So in some games can be
back in the really early days of speedrunning
some games banned dying
which was hilarious and obviously changed in those games but it makes you realize how far rule defining in speedrunning has come
Should be irl
Wow the more I hear about twin galaxies I just imagine a stubborn old grandpa who just hates everyone
Accurate
If by grandpa you mean cultist
This is probably the most defendable aspect of TG tho. It pretty much boils down to "They only have this category" You can argue when they're the only game in town that this is problematic, but I don't think that is a valid concern any longer.
If they certify speedruns according to their rules, it's no different than going to a specific leaderboard on speedrun.com to submit your glitchless run. Maybe you have more visibility or clout because of them, but you can check a leaderboard to figure out that for some categories, people just don't care.
That's my takeaway from this video. Everyone needs to stop using Twin Galaxies.
The stubborn old grandpa apparently also puts himself at the top of every list in permanent marker. Lol
“Glitchless *Bethesda* Speedrun”
Complete a Bethesda game without any glitches occurring. If any glitch occurs (intentionally or unintentionally) then the run must restart.
*MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!*
Harder than the Fire Emblem Ironman challenge.
Harder than the Fire Emblem Barth Challenge. (Raise barth's resistance to it's maximum)
IT JUST WORKS
trollbreeder 2%
trollbreeder Harder then Arden% (beat gen 1 of Fe4 only using Arden)
EZScape at 23:57: "Im sure a world record progression video will be posted at some point for the generation one pokemon games"
Summoning Salt 4 days later: *posts world record progression video for the generation one pokemon games*
Omfg
Im pretty sure they talked about it and that was a subtle joke
19:19
I actually ended up performing this glitch completely by accident and without realizing it my first time playing through Mirrors Edge. I thought it was just a really neat shortcut. It was until I tried to reproduce it on subsequent play-throughs that I realized it was not exactly an intended route.
Sometimes it's hard to make a run truly 'glitchless' when the game has glitches that can easily be done without thinking about it.
5:56 Dammit, I nearly spat out my drink.
"BUT FIRST, WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT PARALLEL UNIVERSES"
I thought the same thing xD
Shay i
"HENRY" TJ YOSHI
Gijs Schenk its a refference to the anime known as Pannenkoek2012 where the main caracter used his stand, 『QPU Alignment』to trvel to parallel universes.
Nice
I've always wanted to see a "dev intended" category
Like, as much as I love a good zero star run, to me glitchless is intended to highlight gameplay skill rather than game exploiting skill. That old super Mario 3 tas run everyone thought was real is a great example. It's just beautiful to watch someone tear through a game efficiently. Glitched runs are entertaining for an entirely different reason. The goal of the glitchless category shouldn't be to define glitches to ban, it should focus on preserving intended dev limitations and consistently imposing those limitations on the runner.
I agree completely; It's always bugged me that speedruns end up being about skill in breaking the game rather than skill in playing the game. While there's nothing nessesarily wrong with focusing on skill in breaking the game in and of itself, shouldn't skill in playing the game recieve just as much focus if not more?
@@TheOneGuy1111 the problem id that the line between breaking and playing the game is thin. Look at that dinosaur skip on Odyssey. Is that Dev intended? Who knows? Miamoto was talking about that in the interview with minus world. If the game runs it, it's part of the game.
How do we establish dev intention?
@@yonatanbeer3475 that's a good question. I think it's about agreeing on the spirit of the thing as a community and being flexible to new discoveries rather than imposing strict language.
@e to the pi i I think you missed the point. I guess from your point of view what I'm trying to say is the "glitchless" category should be defined by what you're supposed to do, not by what you're not allowed to do. Focusing on preserving Dev intended limitations would probably be easier than trying to redefine "glitchless" every time a new strat pops up. Instead of approaching the category with the mindset of "what isn't allowed?" You come in with the question "what needs to be preserved?" It's a subtle shift but I think it's one worth talking about at least.
Oh neat, I didn't know Miyamoto felt that way about the minus world. It's cool that Nintendo references it in newer games now. Like in Super Paper Mario, the afterlife level is also known as World -1.
Speaking of which, why aren't there Super Paper Mario speedruns?
I don't know, and I'm sad about it
CoopersCrazy love the profile pic dude
CoopersCrazy *Sees Dimento icon and that you are talking about Super Paper Mario*
"I see you are a man of culture as well"
36-1
Miyamoto: It's not intentional, but it's a feature.
Todd: It's not a glitch, it's a feature.
Maybe Miyamoto secretly inspired Todd? XD
“It just works”
Miyamoto's job was to draw squares on construction paper. He doesn't have shit to do with programming, he's a glorified manga artist. I wouldn't trust him with any advice considering glitches.
6:01
"But first, we have to talk about Parallel Universes."
Dude you used the letter "a" when writing this, hopefully done with .5 presses
@Zeltov 181 this would be true if it was a single star run but considering this is a full game the last a press can be held into the next stage where it will be used to obtain wing mario over the rainbow
they could have done it in 0 a presses if they used copypaste, like was done for this message
Dank% is the only truly legit category
Snack Bars tf
Chara_ Don't ask
helmenthead RBLX no I want to know
> 21:53 bud
@Ryan B:
Dank% also known as 420% is "Fastest time to smoke a joint in OOT", yes really. Basically:
1: Get a Deku Stick.
2: Light the Deku Stick on fire.
3: Play the Deku Stick like an Ocarina while it's lit.
4: Let the Deku Stick burn down while holding it like that, so Link "smokes" his blunt.
The world record is 8 min 38 seconds, I think.
5:55
*Pannenkoek flashbacks intensify*
He could do in half in a press
EzKoek
An a press is an a press you can't say it's only a half
Please refer to Pannekoek's half A press commentated video
I like pancakes
" Sonic 06 Glitchless "
That would be an extremely hard category *snicker*.
The only glitch that would be allowed is an arbitrary code execution glitch that is used to patch the game at the start
That may be somewhat possible if you know the glitch triggers.
A Mass Effect Andromeda glitchless run would be borderline imposible
I Don't Exist impossible
I Don't Exist "Hello everyone and welcome to my glitchless sonic 06 speedrun stream *starts walking up loop-deloop* well the run is dead thanks for joining everyone."
Is that why I can't find a Doom 2016 "glitchless" speedrun? Aw, I just want to see some Doom enthusiast efficiently slaughter hundreds of demons...
Emery Langbroek Look up Clockner’s channel.
Best "butt-clicked" video I ever watched. My pocket's taste is improving.
Actually laughed out loud when i heard the mario 64 select music :)
PARALEL UNIVERSES
same, was not expecting that but well played
Shoutout to Simpleflips
Shaving 9 hours off a meme in the spirit of Christmas
T.J. """"Henry"""" Yoshi
I always used the Poke Doll as a kid, I never knew there was a whole side mission. I was always so confused when Giovanni acted like we had met before, like wtf you don't know me bro
Lyla G
"Side mission"
You're triggering me
Why you lying
I dont understand this comment ? What's the side mission?
@@fractal_mind562 To get the silth scope to fight marowak.
I was the other way around, I didn’t know you could use. Pokedoll until recently. I never used said dolls so I didn’t know what they did.
here is a fun fact about me and pokemon:
when i was a kid, playing pokemon yellow, i didn't know about the silph scope and tought the only way to do it was with the pokedoll.
so for years i would always use a pokedoll and never get the silph scope (i didn't even know it existed).
and yes, this was before the internet was a thing
RoyalJester17 Hackerman
I used the pokedoll once as a kid because I wanted to know if it worked on said ghost.
Kinda the same for me, but internet was already a thing -that I didn't have regular access to, so in the end I discovered the glitch on my own-
if this was before the internet, then how did you know about that?
@RevineYT I guess he read the description of the Pokedoll?
If he still assumed that passing the Marowak mother was a puzzle that could be solved with any [other] item, he probably simply thought of what might qualify to pass a battle that can't be fought.
It was essentially a situation like in Zelda 1, where you had to buy and use the bait to get rid of that one Hungry Goriya that couldn't be attacked, and instead stood in the room saying "Grumble, Grumble...".
A glitch is a failure of coding. An exploit (at least the way you defined it) is a failure of game design.
that’s a good way to put it. I feel like there are probably exceptions though, like exploits that also involve a coding failure.
I prefer the term "Creative use of game mechanics"
@@squeegeemcgee if any coding is involved its then a glitch. not complicated
@@squeegeemcgee Indeed, for example a coding change a few months after Quake 2's initial release opened up a category of exploits, due to making subtle changes to the player movement physics. It's not really a "coding failure" because they made the change on purpose (it was documented in the README for the patch release.) But nonetheless, it was thereafter possible to gain more speed and distance (through subtle keyboard/mouse circle/strafe techniques, ramps, box jumps) and reach items (e.g. powerups) more easily than was intended in the original game design.
@@mailliw94 "Coding" is necessarily involved in all aspects of a game. It's literally all code. There's just no blanket statement that accounts for all cases.
This gives me flashbacks to that Mirrors edge speedrunner.
How about we make an "intended path" speedrun where you play the game as the developers intended in the linear fashion they provide?
Kumquat Lord Often, many games do have both. In Luigi’s Mansion for example, there’s a glitch that allows you to beat the game in less than 9 minutes, used for any%. After this was found, the previous route was still used for the category without this glitch, now called No OOB.
I’m all for this idea ! Mostly for oot , Doing this would bring a lot more people to the community as new players can have a friendly route and not get crushed by the pro speed runners. Trying to learn all the tricks would take years to even place on the top 20
For oot I would wonder tho if side jumping or walking backwards across hyrule cause clearly the devs never intended you to walk backwards every were , And that you are exploiting the render mechanic in the game
@@animosiity I think that it would be allowed, as it's just for moving from place to place. I'm talking sequence breaking or location skips of any sort. Basically, just do a walkthrough
Animosity I’m in that boat where OoT and Mario 64 are some of my favorite games ever but the speedrun communities are so far along at this point that I’m better off just enjoying others doing the runs rather than attempt to be competitive. The randomized runs have had me thinking that getting into it could be fun tho.
I too think that speedruns should be about beating the experience the developers have you as intended as fast as possible, without using skips or something, so that it really shows the skill you have in the core game, not the skill you have in doing 5 difficult unintended maneuvers correctly and actually only playing 10-20% of it.
Nice opening clip lol
One sick thing about the clip that people probably didn't notice is that bowling shot before the thunder boost. It's used to hit an invisible button to skip paying for a challenge leading up to a spatula
Well in my opinion, and with OoT as an example, when someone is looking for a video of a glitchless speedrun, he propably just wants to see someone solving all the puzzles etc. in the intended way, very skillfully and fast. So glitchless speedruns should focus on exactly this.
@Fab Elger i mean, a dev intended run of OOT would be kinda boring (It's pretty much just a walktrought) and it would take like 8 hours at least. I like the idea of dev intended in an already fast paced games, like super mario, celeste, super meat boy, super hot, sonic, etc. But it should not be the main category of every game, again, all zelda game have very fun and entertaining speedruns! Like have you ever seen a BOTW any%? And that is simply because gliches allow a non fast paced game to become fast paced, and that's where great speedruns live
Exactly. There's speedrunning the game, where you run quickly through the game on the fastest route. You go into the maze and use logic and skill to solve the maze in the quickest route possible.
Then there's glitchrunning, where you go from starting zone to end credits as fast as possible. You enter the maze, glitch between walls in a straight line to the exit.
Metrion77 that’s basically just a walk through though, if you wanna watch that watch 100% speed runs or glitchless runs. I’d argue, without much evidence honestly, that if you wanna watch speed runs you actually probably have either played the game or don’t care about seeing the majority of it and just wanna watch people break and push the game in max.
@@Darling-su3ci The definition of a walkthrough is a guide. It is not a walkthrough.
Metrion77 yes but if you’re watching someone play the game in a not very quick manner you’re better of just watching a play through. You can always watch any% glitchless or 100% glitchless but any% with glitches is and always will be the most popular version of any games speed run.
5:55 you're not pannenkoek
But first, we need to talk about parallel wall jumps...
vottom bext
Pannenkoek has made it so when I hear that song I think of him and not Mario 64 select screen
Well tj "nambona890" yoshi.
Dreams are just alternate realities.
Those last two minutes are basically exactly how I feel. I think more specifically defined categories will usually be more fun than a vague "glitchless" categories. People want glitchless categories for all different reasons. If you want a run that completes most of the game, you can do something like OoT MST. If you want a run that completes the game without crazy game breaking stuff like OoB and Memory exploits, you can make a No Major Glitches category and specifically say what is and isn't allowed, to leave no debate.
If I ever get into speedrunning (which might never happen due to me thinking I'm only slightly better than average) I would play absolute glitchless and end up with a ton of time at the end though at least I'd have the satisfaction that I completed the game completely like the developers wanted. I feel like a complete glitchless category should be added for every game to get real times rather than crazily low times because of exploits or glitches. This video was really interesting though.
For a lot of games a "complete glitchless category" would be basically impossible. The vast majority of games I've played that were released in the last 2 decades have had at least one very noticeable bug through a casual playthrough. Not being allowed to have ANY glitches happen under ANY circumstances for several hours or you have to start from the beginning is a pretty absurd requirement (and would be literally impossible for many games), and I highly doubt anyone actually interested in speedrunning would want to do that (and even if they did, I can't imagine them wanting to do it more than once).
Another thing, completing the game "completely like the developers wanted" also means not skipping any cutscenes. And actually paying attention to the story and dialogue. And a slew of other things that are great if you're doing a casual playthrough, but are completely contradictory to the goals of a speedrun. And how do you know you're doing it exactly the way the developers wanted? What do the developers want? And why does their opinion matter?
Playing the game "completely like the developers wanted" basically means a casual playthrough. There's absolutely nothing wrong with doing a casual playthrough, but I don't think every speedrunning leaderboard for every game should arbitrarily be forced to have what is essentially a "casual playthrough" category, because a casual playthrough is simply not a speedrun.
NetWalkthroughs Maybe have skipless runs?
There are a lot of gray areas as to what the developers intended though. A good example is the 3DS port of Ocarina of Time. A time-saving glitch was present in the N64 version known as a HESS (Hyper Extended Super Slide) where by abusing bomb mechanics, you could gain large amounts of backwards momentum and travel much faster than intended. Originally, the glitch was removed from the 3DS version, but the beta testers complained about the removal, and the programmers put it back in. So, is HESSing in the 3DS version of OoT intended or not? It was clearly a glitch in the N64 version, and the programmers never wanted to put it in in the first place, but they did edit the code with the intention of making HESSes possible.
There are also games where it's literally impossible to beat them as the developers intended. The best example of this is Pokémon Diamond/Pearl/Platinum. It is very clear that you are intended to catch every Pokémon in the game (Gotta Catch 'Em All is the slogan, after all), but there's a problem with that. There are a few Pokémon that were only available glitchless through special events where you would get a Pokémon by going to a physical location and having your save file edited for buying merchandise at a certain store or going to the theatrical showing of a Pokémon movie, or through a Global Link event where if you entered a certain code at a certain time, you would get a Pokémon. Both methods were shut down shortly after the release of Pokémon X/Y, and have been inactive for 4 years.
There are also large speedrunning communities for ROM hacks, and the developers certainly never wanted that to happen.
And even getting a full set of the non-event pokemon requires playing multiple games and using trading/transfer mechanisms because no one game has them all.
5:55 even the "you see, ..." is very pannenkoek-esque. Great video!
0:00 A miserable pile of data. But enough talk, have at you!
That Link bomb example should be 100% legal. It's just a solid understanding of the game's mechanics coupled with creativity
Another game with controversy for its glitchless category is NieR: Automata. There is an exploit called Skype Glitch which prevents the ringer from happening when somebody calls you, and it skips directly to their dialogue. This is activated by being fast in reaching one area of the game, as you interrupt the dialogue of somebody who calls you, with character dialogue for reaching a new area. As the current world record holder for “all major endings” phrases it, “Would the ruling be you aren’t allowed to go fast?” Thoughts on this matter?
Yeah I mean if it literally only happens because you got there fast without using any glitches, it would be super dumb to ban skipping that.
how about fuck twin galaxies. who cares what a staff of columbine shooters lookalikes think
Hi. I ran NieR:Automata for a while. The general consensus on the point on you raised it - which was reached very quickly - was "if we wanted to avoid it, you'd have to just stand around waiting, and that's dumb".
The actual discussion came about because if you triggered Skype glitch during one playthrough, it would persist through resets until you outright closed the game, and would therefore be present right from the beginning of subsequent playthroughs, saving time in places where it would not normally be possible to have triggered it by that point in the game (e.g. it would save ~15s during the opening shmup segment).
It was decided that any instance of skype glitch was okay but only on the condition that it was triggered within the run that benefitted from it. The rationale being:
1) If a run is allowed to benefit from something done in a previous run, should we count the time spent triggering the glitch in your run's time? If so, how exactly would we even time that? Difficult question
2) Should a run even be allowed to benefit from something done outside of the run in the first place? Some categories in other games allow it (like Skyward Sword's save file shenanigans), but we figured no, on the grounds that it opens the floodgates to all sorts of dubious grey-area shit.
3) It takes several minutes to trigger the glitch from scratch and it would just be annoying have to trigger it every time you booted up the game.
And then that further leads down the slippery path of “what constitutes a glitch, what doesn’t,” which is what EZscape posited in this video. Thank you very much for bringing up your response!
That's a skip, or a trick, and true not the way the developer intended, it shouldn't really be banned from a glitch run.
Wait.... There's a OOT category called Dank%
:)
There's also "Go home and die%," "4 Bae RTA," "All Cows," "37 Water Temple Keys," and most amusingly, "No doors."
Missed opportunity for 420%
no doors? 37 water temple keys ... ????? oh my god i have new videos to watch
don't-feed-ben dank% is the 420%
Could you make a list of speedruns that were supposed to be glitchless and were on pace for being a good run but were ruined because a glitch occurred? i.e. Accidentally clipping through a wall or something
MistaTwoJeffreyTwenty Yaay hi XD
RS Extreme Lmfao, I guess you do see me everywhere. Make sure to reply to all my comments so we can keep a "streak", haha
That only seldomly happens, if ever at all. Most glitches that are used for timesave are pretty easy to avoid, and any others are usually not banned if they are not easily avoidable. Any glitches outside of the ones that speedrunners abuse would slow their time down and cause for a reset anyways. So there really aren't any clips of people resetting glitchless runs because they accidentally perform a glitch other than the fact that the glitch will lose them too much time to keep doing the run. I did see a clip once of a GTA speedrunner accidentally entering a cheat before, but that was about it.
EZScape OK, thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it!
+General Sotheny that's not anything I've talked about in the comments or the video, but in the context of your question, speedrunning Bethesda games is indeed possible.
Sonic 06 glitchless, one glitch and you reset
Nice try doing that
I remember watching a casual run where the final boss was glitched and gave him an instant win
Late reply, but thats impossible. Sonics cordinates are glitched, making the run dead as soon as the cutscenes end
Good video!
Next "Why do some 100% speedruns don't get 100% of the items?" or "Is RNG manipulation a glitch?".
Fun topics to argue about. :)
RNG manipulation is most certainly not a glitch, as it is dependent on the game working as intended. When manipulating RNG, you're using meta knowledge of the game's code to produce favorable outcomes; if the game code isn't working properly, or "as intended", then the RNG manipulation would not work.
It is however very much an exploit, and banning it is fair
@@Evarakeus It more than an exploit tho. The random number generator is intended to generate numbers at random, you are manipulating that to your advantage. And you might say, oh but that's just how computers work, nothing to do about that. But then again, Super Mario 64 "Paralel Universes" exist due to the way the N64 round float numbers. So with the previuous logic they are "Intended Behaviour" that we just happen to exploit?
While glitch and exploit keep being concepts dependant on "Intendedness" (A verh subjective term) we will never get a clear picture of what is and isn't a glitch
100% speedruns dont mean 100% of the items, it means 100% of the games tasks, if that makes sense. Some do have all items collected, but most dont really
@@bain8renn Like Doom demos doing "100%" [and getting allowed???] when not even 100% of enemies were killed [it happens] or 100% of items [something I meme about]
Zira Tival
One example I can give is new super mario bros wii. you know how you can get powerups in houses and they gwt stored? well in 100% you dont get those things, however, you DO get it in a category extension known as "Max%" that very few people have run.
Is there a category called say, "skipless"? Because I find a few glitches entertaining and everything, and I certainly don't mind sequence breaking, but I can't help but wonder if it'd like say... "You're allowed to use whatever glitches you want, as well as sequence breaks, but you still need to pick up required items and fight required bosses." Which is usually why I like watching 100% speedruns as a majority as it is. But by its very nature, 100% has to be community defined as often games don't give you an explicit percentage when you collect things, and even if they do, they're sometimes not counting things that might very well be considered as something for completionists.
nahnah390 you sometimes see certain flags in runs. Like in pokemon it says the time they had when they reached brock, misty, safari zone...
But what is a major event? What if you skip mid bosses? Is that a major event? What if you still beat all bosses but dont get the keys to open the right doors?
The problem is the name. They could call it glitchless- SDA 2017 and then list the overly specific rules below, to avoid controversy.
For instance, that dude who got his glitchless run stolen in red, his run could still be called glitchless and then they could have made another one called glitchless (no text speed up).
Are the names overly complicated? yes, but only as much as the rules from the run.
”skipless” is a tricky name because skipping as much as you can is kinda the definition of speedrunning, but I get the spirit of what you’re after and it’s definitely a thing! It’s done in two main ways, and they’re sort of different.
One is where you just ban the specific skip(s) and explicitly call the category ”Any% no flight skip” or ”no major skips” whatever. You get specific, leave the floor open for other cool tricks within those constraints. Limitation is that you gotta make new categories for every new discovered ”uncool” skip if your goal was actually to get to see certain content
Second one I see is ”All levels/bosses/dungeons”, specifying extra content without going up to 100%, but not blocking the order or way you access it. Inverse issue here of course, if the ”uncool” part was the trick itself and not the content you missed. Like how Metroid Prime can be done 100% while being out of bounds almost all the time, so they made ”no OoB” a thing
It’s technically 100% I suppose, but I’m reminded of SM64 120 star where they glitch through walls and doors a ton to avoid cutscenes and animations, but still visit every place by the end.
For Dark Souls 3 there is a category called All Bosses (No Major Skips). It basically keeps all fun glitches while removing annoying and hard area skips.
They are often game specific. I know ocarina of time has a run like that but I forget what it’s called
Edit: it’s all dungeons kinda obvious but yeah
Would 100% be skipless?
I remember the "glitchless" Mirror's Edge on SGDQ
Fab Elger it’s speed running, not a walk through or 100% or glitchless. All of which already exist so you have those categories. They won’t become the main kind because that’s not what people wanna watch.
The way I would define "true glitchless" is something along the lines of "If a casual player with minimum practice executing moves plays the game, that's all allowed." So in some cases these speedrunners utilize wall kicks or bomb pushback (manipulating programmed mechanics) to get further than intended, however if you give your little brother the controller and he performs the speedrun the "long way" by doing it properly, that should be true glitchless. I know people will knitpick this concept and try to micro-define specific rules or glitches/mechanics to marginalize my opinion, however at the end of the day true glitchless should be the result of people playing the game totally as intended, in the manner it was intended, as if they themselves were just a regular player. Refining how quickly you make a line from one objective to the next is fine, but refining it by using a bomb to push yourself over a ledge to get to the next area shouldn't be allowed. Spend the extra 2 minutes getting the key, and show off your skill that way.
In the Skylanders speedrunning community, for glitchless rulesets we define "glitches" as something that skips a part of the level you're not supposed to skip. For example, there's a glitch in Skylanders: Trap Team Chapter 12 where you can move during a cutscene that you shouldn't be able to move in. It's a glitch that anyone can do, and if you do it too fast you'll softlock the game. Compare this to the double jump glitch, dash cancel, or wall fricking, where you can skip sections of the level, like not fighting the first Villain.
Under these rules, Poké Doll wouldn't be allowed because it skips the Silth Scope, but Instant Text and the Mirror's Edge glitches (wall boosts, no fall damage and whatever else you mentioned) would be allowed because they're easy (talk to an NPC) and don't skip anything.
We talked about this during my run of STT Any% Glitchless in No Glitches Allowed 4, as well as a lot of "you skip this part in glitched."
Basically, instead of a “glitchless” category It should be “no crazy difficult to pull off exploits that take 6hrs of practice to do”
@Falb Elger: Make it happen. Suggest it for a game and start running it.
Whining that other people are doing something you personally do not enjoy is retarded.
6 hours? pffft
most actually difficult exploits are inconsistent at best, and take literal weeks of practice to do even semi-consistently.
There's a reason most runners have extra save files specifically to practice certain glitches every single time they start doing runs.
V J bruh I learned how to blj in less than an hour
Backwards long jumping is a relatively simple glitch to pull off.
@Fab Elger illIm tryna do a soul silver dev intended, 8 gyms, e4, 8 gyms, red would be hype
Speed running using glitches and exploits of any kind are fine as long as it sits in its own class.
.
Just like you don't see people racing each other with bikes and cars in the same race, but each are considered nice to watch by some people
Dingdingding. I don't care who likes their games glitchy, but you gotta keep the categories separate.
Is there any Mirror's Edge "Glitchless" Speedrun that is actually Glitchless?
Depends what you define as a glitch.
ThaRixer yeah, which is the subject of the video
Yeah, there was talk about a category called "True Glitchless", but nobody runs it because it isn't fun and it's basically impossible for a Mirror's Edge speedrunners to not use SideJumpBoosts (as that's mostly a reflex) or wallboosting (as you'd have to not jump off any walls because that would get you questioned if you gained an unreasonable boost).
If you wanted speedrunners to play the game in a way that a new player that already knows the route would play the game, then yeah, you won't find that I'm pretty sure. Even a new person did a run, they would most likely accidently do some of the exploits without even knowing it, like if they ever used a sidejump and turned their camera or jumped off a wall too fast and looked into the wall just a slight bit.
Even in "True Glitchless", there would be some things people consider glitches or exploits.
It really comes down to a common problem with speedruns where you can run any category with any definition you want, the question is whether or not anyone else would actually want to run it. For example, in Hyper Light Drifter, there is no 100% category, instead there is a 99% category. It collects everything in the game save for three specific items. Two of them require doing a pretty precise movement technique called chain dashing 800 times in a row without missing, which takes several minutes and is extremely unfun to watch, do and is very easy to screw up and lose minutes, and the other is from a very long end game sidequest involving five ten-wave arenas which are heavily luck based, and also take an extremely long time to do with a high potential for losing due to no fault of your own and losing minutes. So as much as I would love to see a true 100% run, no one wants to do it because it adds a ton of difficulty, tedium, and luck to an already extremely difficult run.
Yeah, another example for this is the Witness speedrunning. Where the 100% category requires you to watch a 50 Minute (or so) video. They have a 99.8% Category because of that where they do everything but that last thing because it's dumb.
I couldn't agree more with the point you've made about Mirror's Edge. I feel they've made and accepted the true nature of speedruns, similar to the 007 Goldeneye runners.
Molecule not taking fall damage is quite clearly a glitch my dude.
It makes so much more sense to create a ruleset that makes a certain category competitive and enjoyable as opposed to a ruleset based off a strict interpretation of the word "glitchless".
no youtuber has ever told me to have a "beautiful life" before. subbed
This is a prime example of why "No Major Glitches" or "No Major Skips" categories exist.
They allow speedrunning with all the little, as you rightly called them, exploits, without completely busting the game wide open with credits warps and the like.
Take, for example, the "No Exploration Glitch" category for Loz: Link to the Past. It allows every other glitch, with the exception of the Exploration Glitch, which allows you to travel unhindered across the inter-connected dungeon map and basically anywhere you want, because all caves in the game are connected.
It still allows all the other glitches, it just restricts the one glitch that makes the run a pointless mess. Don't get me wrong, people will still enjoy a full on Any%, myself included, but when it gets to the point of effectively manipulating code, there's something that should probably be looked at, lol.
and now for the mindblow: if you disagree with rulings, run a game you like to run it, because if you really want to run under certain rules, because you enjoy it, no one will keep you from doing so. Not everything speedrunning related has to be on leaderboards and agreed upon by the community. It's a hobby, and one should enjoy it.
*_”Skate 3 glitchless run”_*
I love how you started playing the pannenkoek music as soon as you started explaining walljumping
the youtube algorithm has blessed this video, welcome all new people
For me I really like glitchless even if there are some glitches. The main glitches I am not a fan of when watching a run are save corruptions and oob glitches. I respect the skill but often it makes my eyes hurt 😂😂
Personally, I think that glitchless speedruns don't have:
1. Out of bounds interaction (eg portal 1 wr elevator)
2. Anything that causes 1 item to be bugged and/or doing something else than what it is meant to do *by the game's code.* (like a sword being able to hit far away enemies).
And 3. Anything that causes a shift in what you do in-game by a considerable amount.
The bomb skip is fine as you can already hold a bomb above your head in the game. However, you cannot make that same bomb collide into another object (metaphorically) and let's say, explode across the map. I think that it is not using the item correctly by the game's code (collision) and isn't something you can do normally without the use of another object.
And so that's my idea of glitchless speedruns. Not perfect so feel free to comment.
i agree on your definition , the major point about glitchless is that you still see most of the game without breaking too many sequences ( like obtaining epona by bomb hovering over a wall isnt exactly glitchless , but using a quickkill for Morpha by forcing him into the corner and then crouch stabbing him with the hammer is fine since its a vallid tactic anyone can try at home , same goes for this trick here :
ruclips.net/video/Ra7lh0c9haI/видео.html
its just using the knowledge that Link gets knocked back by jump attacking walls to your advantage , not a glitch
Minene Uryuu922 I PC Masterrace I
What I was essentially saying was 'glitches aren't allowed but exploits are' so yeah, I don't think that exploits necessarily count as glitches and can therefore be accepted as glitchless.
But then again, there is bug limit and glitchless (which should totally be called glitchless and no bug imo). I think this has actually been sorted out very nicely by he speed running community
This is really just a technicality, but if you're going by the game's code, anything the game lets you do is allowed. Regardless of whatever bugs, glitches, exploits, etc. are occuring, the code itself is doing exactly what it's supposed to be doing. However, it may not be doing what the programmers intended it to be doing (which is why it's usually the developer's intentions are usually what's brought up, rather than the code).
"Anything that causes a shift in what you do in-game by a considerable amount"
That is INCREDIBLY vague. A "shift in what you do in-game" is just a fancy way of saying "it changes something". Switching levels could be considered a "shift". Switching from the main gameplay to a mini-game could be considered a "shift". And what is a "considerable amount"? How do you measure that?
This is the problem with making blanket rules. Ultimately it has to come down to the individual game, and the individual glitch, to determine what is allowed or not. Vague statements like yours may sound good on paper, but they just lead to inconsistent interpretations and rulings, which is exactly the problem that Twin Galaxies had.
Literally anything the game does is by the game's code, including every glitch ever discovered.
The way I see it:
Intended mechanic, intended result: normal play
Unintended mechanic, unintended result: glitch
Intended mechanic, unintended result: exploit
Unintended mechanic, intended result: who even cares you get the right result anyway
Flash-Flire so I use a game genie and get the intended result of Winning
What about glitches that abuse intended mechanics? What about glitches like the pause glitch in MegaMan 1? Is that an exploit now?
@@yonatanbeer3475 You said it yourself, that is a glitch. And it's pretty obviously a glitch. The reason that happens is because pausing resets some timer or variable against what it should be, allowing some weapons to trigger damage again.
Glitches have to be defined in some way with an understanding of game programming and game physics. In Mega Man 1, the game physics expectation is that weapons hit each enemy once. Anything else is inconsistent game physics, and while being able to pause the game is obviously a normal game mechanic, unfortunately it also resets an aspect of the game physics that makes the game operate not as intended.
I think that's what the table is getting at. Breaking it up into intended/unintended mechanic intended/unintended result may not always make sense.
It's very similar to the Vanish/Doom trick in FF6. in FF6 Vanish makes a character or enemy have 100% evade, but also causes magic to always hit (which is a strange choice to begin with). This means that insta kill skills like Doom an X-Zone will always hit rather than their usual low probability. This wouldn't be that bad, except it also has the effect of ignoring a check for being outright resistant to death skills. The problem is the trick allows you to instantly kill almost any boss, regardless of level.
While the mechanic itself seems intended because they intentionally made Vanish cause magic to never miss, the result is clearly not. At that point it makes more sense to talk about the actual specific "skill" or "move" as a mechanic in and of itself, because while Vanish is a legitimate skill, Doom is a legitimate skill, and using vanish to improve magic accuracy is a legitimate mechanic, the combination allows you to literally sidestep the fact that bosses are coded to never be insta killed. Vanish+Doom itself, as a unit, is not an intended game mechanic. Another way to look at it might be to say that all mechanics that should be involved in the process are involved, including game physics, and working as intended. The pause glitch from Mega Man 1 sidesteps the game mechanic of enemy or character invulnerability periods and weapons hitting only once. The Vanish/Doom glitch sidesteps the game mechanic of boss invulnerability to death skills. In fact, you can look at the absence of those mechanics (the resetting of the attack or the check for death invulnerability) as them not working as intended. To me as a programmer that makes sense, but some people might have an easier time thinking of it as a mechanic that should be there and is not.
But again, that's why they have to be defined with some understanding of the underlying programming or game design. Glitches, hard glitches or soft glitches, always have to do with programming gone awry. It gets more murky when dealing with simulated physics, but it's still technically there. This is far different than simple sequence breaking. To use Super Metroid as an example, you can wall jump to get to a fair amount of areas you aren't supposed to. You can actually make it through a significant amount of Maridia that way. But that's just a weakness (or strength maybe?) of the level design. You're using intended game physics with no involved unintentional mechanics (or uninvolved intentional mechanics) to get from point A to point be in a way that the level designers did not see coming. For whatever reason they put Wall Jumping in the game even though it is never required or revealed to you, so if you can wall jump and skip an area or get a powerup early, then that's an exploit. No breaking of the game physics. The same can happen with the Ice Beam.
@Chris Wood
FYI, Wall Jumping and Bomb Jumping was 100% accounted for in the Metroid games. Sequence breaking is an intended option and differs from the "intended" sequence in that it requires tricks the developers considered "advanced".
No, they absolutely did not account for all the possible options that wall jumping enables. Just because they considered wall jumping advanced doesn't mean they intended for people to use it to get to some areas of lower brinstar in the way that you can. You can even use just wall jumping to get a bunch of items in Maridia before you are supposed to be there.
I mean, you can absolutely tell they did not intended for you to get all the way to the top of the vertical passage in lower Brinstar with the breakable ceiling. It is very, very difficult to do. And navigating Maridia without the Gravity Suit is even harder.
Don't make up stuff.
also a good example of arbitrary categories for the sake of entertainment is the "in bounds" category for half-life 2, which actually means "no boring, tedious oob segments", which in real-time take ridiculous amounts of annoying, boring, precise inputs that must be timed immediately after your computer finishes loading the save, take tons of time to do, and in a segmented run just look strange and aren't enetertaining to watch
they actually clip out of bounds multiple times in the run, but only quick clips that skip a bunch of waiting around for dialog
you know the instant text thing...id allow it because you can never open your save menu or item menu outside of battle. so youd be forced to be damn good to complete it
Oh my god “Dank%” 😂
Whenever I show someone who doesn’t know what a speed run is a speed run of their favorite game, they’re often unimpressed that the run skips 90% of the game.
Glitchless speed runs only exist to appease people who hate normal speed runs because they have glitches.
Or they exist to show people how to beat the game properly by mastering the intended mechanics rather than abusing an oversight in level design.
@@Metrion77 no that's called a walkthrough.
@@ommurg5059 Oh of course, silly me. A walkthrough is all about finding the best path, finding the fastest way to solve a puzzle, hitting all the headshots to minimize combat time. You know, showing a mastery of the game rather than skipping the game.
I don't know what I was thinking. Here I was thinking a walkthrough was "a guide aimed towards improving a player's skill within a particular video game and often designed to assist players in completing either an entire video game or specific elements."
I hope you have a beautiful life.
I can't see why people want glitchless speedruns, glitches are what make speedruns so fun to watch
I was a mod in There is no Game speedrunning community for quite a while. We discovered a lot of out of bounds tricks in one day because of their similarities and the question was whether we should make a new category or allow it. All though the mechanics was completely different now, I suggested to make a new category because it would ruin the old leaderboard completely
Donkey Kong 64 Any% is a great example were the speedrun got less and less exciting to watch as new glitches kept coming.
i agree , i have seen a video beating DK64 with 0 bananas , was quite fun to watch the runner unlock diddy and tiny in the Castle boss fight , but that run with invisible dk just isnt a speedrun anymore
Right, like, as more and more skip glitches arrise, it just starts to be boring to watch. :/
Many people in the comments think they want glitchless, when they really want 100% completion
"Don't worry about it..."
Definition of a glitch: *exists
Creators of super Mario bros: I'm gonna end that man's whole career
(Because they kept the minus world, wall jump, and other oversights in the game as secrets, even though they were not intended)
What's funny is that this can still be easily side stepped around. This was happening for a long time with "cheat codes". Those were actually originally intended for debugging, and eventually developers just started leaving them in as easter eggs. But it's pretty clear that cheat codes are cheats. They aren't even glitches at that point. They are in the game as cheats and aren't even allowed in glitched speedruns. Doesn't matter that they were programmed in or left in at that point. Same deal.
Chris Wood which of the things mentioned above are cheats?
@@Allstin I didn't say they were. I said that developers have historically put cheats into a game, so whether it was an intentional part of the game or not is sort of irrelevant.
I was only comparing the fact that they were both intentionally added, or intentionally allowed to remain in game.
ZOoTR has developed a ruleset that's been dubbed "accessible" and I really think that title is the most appropriate for what "glitchless" was intended to be, and then it allows stuff that is an exploit but is fairly easy to pull off (such as power crouch stabbing)
My thing is that i dont mind speedruns having glitches so long as the optimal run still includes actually playing the game. I dont enjoy watching runs like doom 2016 where they basically circumvent the entire 'game' part of the game thanks to boundary breaks
Those kinds of runs aren't meant to be fun to watch, they're meant to test one's limits. Which may be fun to people with "how things work... or don't work" mindsets
Right. In theory most games probably have a glitch that hasn't been discovered that would allow a memory leak and could let you alter game variables or running code. Meaning you could potentially find a way to just warp to the end or past a lot of content.
That's exactly what happens in Mega Man 1, where there is a glitch that involves you jumping above the level and moving around and something glitches into memory and/or changes game code. You can literally trigger almost anything. Warping to the boss. Refilling all your weapons. Crashing the game. Tons of graphical glitches. Reverting to the title screen. Becoming invulnerable. Moving you move much faster. At that point isn't not much different than hacking the game.
It's sorta different, though I get what you mean. The main difference is that hacking the game usually means externally messing with the code rather than finding something within the game to mess with it. Which is honestly pretty interesting in itself. For example, someone turned Mario into Flappy Bird.
But I guess that's where lines between different glitched runs become important.
ALttP has a glitch that lets you skip straight to the Triforce room. But there are other ways to play ALttP with glitches while ignoring that specific glitch. It's p hard to put a handle on semi-glitched runs but as long as the goal of the run is met (be it to test the game's limits or to be fun to watch), there's nothing to lose
@@OtepRalloma True, semi glitched runs get weird, though it does seem necessary once you start allowing glitches since some are potentially game breaking and trivializing.
And I agree that I wouldn't actually call it hacking, though there are a fair amount of glitches used that have involved actually looking at disassembled code and other hacking tools... Mostly I guess my concern was that once you get into glitches like that, to where you actually change game-space memory or code, is it still the same game?
@@systemafunk Technically, yes? But the "Spirit of the game" argument is the solution to that I feel, UNLESS you're deliberately aiming for 100% screw the rules
2:26 Okay, so you've covered True/True, False/False and True/False.
What about False/True?
Is that even possible? How could an unintended mechanic lead to an intended result?
@@christian5256 I don't know for certain, but how about the player wanting to move abnormally quickly in a game, then stumbling upon an exploit (say, backwards long-jump or bunnyhopping or similar) that allows them to do so.
That exploit was unintended by the developers (and may even be patched out in later revisions - re: Super Mario 64 Shindou), but led to an intended result by the player.
Does that count?
2:30 til you introduce yourself. You got a New WR.
TheOneWhoPlays maybe a personal record, but not world
Its similar to saying that you got a Guiness world record, while you didnt even submit it to them.
Twin galaxy: doesn’t allow glitches
Also twin galaxy: “I got the world record” “ok sure I believe you”
About the mockball in Super Metroid: Apparently there is a check in the game's code which detects if the player is mockballing or not. So, it could be argued that the developers knew about this result of their programming, and that it could possibly even be intentional.
D A N K %
*S* *U* *C* *C* *%*
* hums file select screen sm64 * * it plays * *HMMMMMMMMMM*
Nice video! You explained everything well. What makes a topic like this so hard is I know for a fact that there are a lot of things I've done in video games that weren't indended, even though I was playing casually. What about finding loops on bosses where they can't hit you? Is that cheating or good strategy? Or anything like that? It's definitely not a split down the middle type of topic.
Heck, this is even an issue with physical sports. Like how they allowed special ”shark skin” suits that lessened friction in swimming competitions, but then removed them because they were ”against the spirit”. It’s tough to make simple consistent rules, that draw a clear line without leaving grey areas (or force swimmers to be nude lol)
Thats why for Prince of Persia Trilogy speedruns the category is named "No Major Glitches" and not "Glitchless"!
11:11 "Pokemon champions are honored for their exploits"
"Intended" (No glitch or exploit, go through the game as the developer expected)
"Limited" (Can have several levels of exploits/glitches allowed, pretty much any category betweens Intended and Anything Goes, depends on the game.)
"Anything Goes" (Speaks for itself)
This video is definitely something that every person who thinks glitching is cheating needs to see
Not sure if you intended to pronounce it that way, but I like the idea of calling it a "Glitch less" category instead of "Glitchless".
I've always been discouraged to try and practice speedrunning portal 2, a game that I played legitimately like 20 times through just to see if I could get faster and faster, because of how much more popular glitched speedruns of it were.
Wreck it Ralph was the first movie that made me interested in knowing about various consequences of glitches and bugs in games
Upcoming categories:
- Glitchless.
- Truly glitchless.
- Actually honestly swear-to-god glitchless, we promise.
- Ah, f--k it. Do whatever you want.
Great vid as usual!
To me, "glitchless" should mean "no BS/play the dang game." It should also be relatively fair ground (for example, the text speed and crouch stab ones are right up to the line, as they may be a tad iffy, but at least they're INCREDIBLY easy to do and aren't super convoluted) Personally, I'd rather just have NO exploits at all, but then you'd be faulting those who accidentally come across them, which is unfair.
I've spoken to friends and acquaintances who said they didn't like speedruns because they relied too heavily on glitches and exploits. Personally, I'm fine with labelling it "glitch-lite" to avoid going out of bounds or any exploits that can be considered "game-breaking". It makes a good category to watch, since it feels it's something more "natural" to the game that any casual can do...with a lot of practice.
In short, I agree with what you've said.
6:45
"If it doesn't crash the game, it's a feature."
-Shigeru Miyamoto (paraphrased)
if there is an intended mechanic but an unintended result, that is still normal gameplay, because you are taking advantage of things like damage boosting
exactly , a perfect example for this would be Sonic Forces , one of the avatar wispons lets you speed across the map , its unintended but its still something you can do just by using what the game gives you
ruclips.net/video/SeFCSCy82Sw/видео.html
I prefer doing my runs glitchless just to show my sheer skill
For somebody not deep into the speedrunning scene or interested in games as designed pieces of software, the heavy utilization of glitches a) breaks immersion into the game world per definiton (which a speedrunner probably doesn't care about) b) possibly clashes with the pre-set definition of masterful gameplay expected (You look forward to them perfecting a boss, they don't do it at all instead). It seems like it comes down to a clash between different interests and expectations here; On the one hand people that want to see their own experience with a game reflected through a master player that breezes through difficult challenges with perfect execution, and on the other, competitors who dedicate themselves to understanding their favorite games so deeply that they break them apart to achieve that one second less in an exhilarating race. Both views are valid, they're just bringing very different expectations to the same thing.
That pannenkoek reference killed me dude. Good shit.
“Spirit of the game”
Back in my day, we called glitchless "casual"
Christmas came early and so did I.
What do you mean? Christmas didn't come early, unless this video somehow signals early christmas to you
And why would you tell us about your premature ejaculation problem? Disgusting.
ExaccusSw Christmas came early and I did too.
Rock with Arms He didn't come early to this video too because there is no time you need to be there
There are also shortcomings : unintended game behaviors the developers knew about, but did not bother to fix because most players will never encounter it.
Entertainment-biased runs: Funny meme videos
Skill-biased runs: Showcase videos
Speed-biased runs: Speedruns
Equally balanced runs: Fair, fun-to-watch speedruns
Any%
In all seriousness tho, it makes sense to ban a glitch/exploit if it skips a huge portion of the game OR if its really easy to do and makes the run not fun to watch/play (Jak & Daxter Any% comes to mind for the former, Sonic Adventure 2 for the latter)
But like you said, people can't seem to agree on anything nowadays immidiately, even tho defining a glitch and an exploit shouldn't be that hard...so it seems doing it via a game by game basis seems to be the best way to go about it! :/
"People can't agree on anything"
Just like you can't agree with them. Oh, the irony.
I'm not making an argument, there isn't any disagreement here.
I'm just stating my opinion...for better or worse.
Here is my rule if it triggers AGDQ that is to be added to glitchless.