Monsieur Barnier ran rings around him. At the end, when M.Barnier was pushing for the best possible deal for EU citizens, Frost folded and yielded on the outstanding issues, and according to Stefaan de Rynck said "You know what? It's only f**king mackerel". Obviously took his responsibility seriously.
The problem is of course that no part of the UK-EU negotiations were conducted in what outside observers would call 'Reality', and neither is this. Whether or not the deal as negotiated by the EU and the UK would go through parliament is rather besides the point - It was the deal that the EU was willing to give on the terms it was willing to negotiate, the political problem of whether it was going to be saleable in parliament wasn't a concern of the EU, that was a UK problem. This left the UK with three options, Ditch Brexit (frankly the option the EU liked the least by this point) accepting the deal (that was always going to favor the EU, since they are the by far stronger party) or braving no-deal. Given that the UK as of yet STILL haven't imposed the checks on incoming goods that the EU imposed day 1! we can tell that this would not have been a good option.
I believe you missed part of the participation of Parliament had, or should have had. Parliament is the voice of the people, and as such it should have said (in the end) that no Brexit project was ever proposed in which the UK could come out ahead. Parliament did its job for some time, voting down every half-baked proposal by Theresa May because each one was unacceptable until she lost power and Johnson effectively closed Parliament. Any functioning Parliament would have determined that there never was one Brexit, only several mutually exclusive ideas. None of those would ever win even half of the votes needed, and Parliament, if it had worked properly, would have voted down every Brexit project for a million years.
@@andresvillarreal9271But that would have ended in no deal unless Parliament repealed the law allowing May to activate Art. 50 and forced Johnson to withdraw leaving, because the EU would not have extended the negotiations for more of the same shitshow. Labour should have voted for May's deal because it had the customs union they wanted, but they chose their own power instead of the best of the country.
@@samhartford8677 May did not know what she was doing and should not have been able to push her ignorance through Parliament, and she was stopped. Then Parliament was shackled and silenced, and Johnson did what he pleased. Even after having Article 50 signed, the EU was ready to postpone and negotiate. Johnson was the bad guy here, the one who forced the country into the worst deal ever, almost exactly the same as a no-deal. A working Parliament could have shown that the will of the people, expressed in a non-binding referendum, was impossible to uphold, and then Article 50 could have been retracted, with the willing authorization by the EU.
@@andresvillarreal9271 Yes, but at that point I cannot see the EU would have been willing to go with the plan. The Brexiteers were such a huger power in the UK politics that they would have been able to block any functioning of the EU. The EU of course was willing to negotiate, but not unless the UK Parliament could come to a decisions about it. Extending in April 2019 was already a sticky thing inside the EU as it involved EU Parliamentary elections in the UK. So, whilst I think we agree on principle on the competence of the people in question, the reality was that the UK Parliament was not able to make decisions prior to the Dec 2019 election and the EU was not going to entertain that until eternity. I mean, Brexit was stupid, but the UK was always the odd one out. Your politicians did not play ball, there was always a fight about the pound vs euro thing etc. etc. Even now the actual people in support of rejoin are 43% if one does not deduct away the 'don't knows'. The EU knew that the UK would have been even more trouble after the referendum than before.
Remember, this talking Toby Jug used to extoll the virtues of the EU when he was marketing Scotch Whisky. Then the Lyin' King dangled ermine, and he was then vehemently against it. Its hard to determine whether David Davis, Raab, or this gobshite was the most ill-prepared for negotiations with the EU or had the most rings run around them by Barnier and his thoroughly professional team. Frost is one of the best reasons for the abolition of the House of Lords.
He says “yes we did get there on the end” suggesting he pulled it off with his strategy. So this is what you set out for is it? Great stuff. He then blames the EU for creating it this bad situation we are in and others on the British side. “we got there in the end”. What a caricature this man is.
No deal is what we ended up with - and found it didn't work. It was never going to work. You are either in the EU single market with full benefits of it, or you are a 3rd country. The only thing the Brexit proved was that the EU did not need us and could afford to hold it's position. The UK negotiators, still, think that the Uk is some kind of favoured group who meerly have to turn up for everyone to bow down. They still can't grasp most other countries don't give a f' about our entitled, privileged upper class ruling elite who treat the rest of the world as inferior. They are not going to ruin their economies for the sake of UK delusion.
Well, frankly it is true when it comes to the EU's red lines. What they mean with it is that the EU did not dismantle the single market for the benefit of the UK, i.e. let the UK have its cake and eat it.
The funniest thing about this is that Frosty and Johnson gave the EU what the EU wanted and negotiated the UK out of leverage. I remember laughing my head off when they did not extend the transition period, because it was self-evident they were going to end up with an EU-authored FTA. If they think the dynamic alignment & freedom of movement chapter were not designed as a way to exclude the UK out of preferential services access, I've got another bridge to sell them.
@@paulcassidy8130 You don't think the answer to that question is important? There are now way too many self-styled 'think tanks' which show meagre intellectual rigour serving solely as lobbyists for vested interests influencing policy both directly and through the media. If you don't care about democracy then yeah, 'Yawn', fair enough. Otherwise...
I still remember the photo in which you could see Barnier carrying loads of folders for the negotiations while Frost was standing. next to him without anything. No surprise that he turnrd out as ill prepared as it appeared.
I'd be very sorry if there isn't another SHWS series; always interesting and a nice balance to other IEA output. You can't have run out of interesting people with whom to chat!
It still surprises me how these idiots misinterpret things like the Irish border sequence. They think Enda Kenny was going to solve the border differently, when in reality he was the one who organised the whole Irish diplomatic effort to get the EU's muscle behind Ireland, because he had evidently seen that it cannot be solved easily. Varadkar came to power after the negotiations had already started and he had no authority to negotiate on behalf of the EU, only Barnier did. But then again, to understand this would require thinking and the ability to see the other's point of view, so I am not really surprised...
Lord Frost lies here - the backstop was not dismantled - the Windsor Protocol is the backstop. Too much patting himself on the back for what was in fact BRINO.
![GEEK TIMË [OFFICIAL AUDIO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ry-6RvkH880/mqdefault.jpg)
Monsieur Barnier ran rings around him. At the end, when M.Barnier was pushing for the best possible deal for EU citizens, Frost folded and yielded on the outstanding issues, and according to Stefaan de Rynck said "You know what? It's only f**king mackerel". Obviously took his responsibility seriously.
I don't see much intellectual honesty in this place. Very sad since I can imagine some people will believe this skewed analysis
He really believes he did a good job for Britain. Astounding given the facts post-Brexit.
Just as I expected UK had no cards
The problem is of course that no part of the UK-EU negotiations were conducted in what outside observers would call 'Reality', and neither is this. Whether or not the deal as negotiated by the EU and the UK would go through parliament is rather besides the point - It was the deal that the EU was willing to give on the terms it was willing to negotiate, the political problem of whether it was going to be saleable in parliament wasn't a concern of the EU, that was a UK problem.
This left the UK with three options, Ditch Brexit (frankly the option the EU liked the least by this point) accepting the deal (that was always going to favor the EU, since they are the by far stronger party) or braving no-deal.
Given that the UK as of yet STILL haven't imposed the checks on incoming goods that the EU imposed day 1! we can tell that this would not have been a good option.
I believe you missed part of the participation of Parliament had, or should have had. Parliament is the voice of the people, and as such it should have said (in the end) that no Brexit project was ever proposed in which the UK could come out ahead. Parliament did its job for some time, voting down every half-baked proposal by Theresa May because each one was unacceptable until she lost power and Johnson effectively closed Parliament. Any functioning Parliament would have determined that there never was one Brexit, only several mutually exclusive ideas. None of those would ever win even half of the votes needed, and Parliament, if it had worked properly, would have voted down every Brexit project for a million years.
@@andresvillarreal9271But that would have ended in no deal unless Parliament repealed the law allowing May to activate Art. 50 and forced Johnson to withdraw leaving, because the EU would not have extended the negotiations for more of the same shitshow.
Labour should have voted for May's deal because it had the customs union they wanted, but they chose their own power instead of the best of the country.
@@samhartford8677 May did not know what she was doing and should not have been able to push her ignorance through Parliament, and she was stopped. Then Parliament was shackled and silenced, and Johnson did what he pleased. Even after having Article 50 signed, the EU was ready to postpone and negotiate. Johnson was the bad guy here, the one who forced the country into the worst deal ever, almost exactly the same as a no-deal. A working Parliament could have shown that the will of the people, expressed in a non-binding referendum, was impossible to uphold, and then Article 50 could have been retracted, with the willing authorization by the EU.
@@andresvillarreal9271 Yes, but at that point I cannot see the EU would have been willing to go with the plan. The Brexiteers were such a huger power in the UK politics that they would have been able to block any functioning of the EU. The EU of course was willing to negotiate, but not unless the UK Parliament could come to a decisions about it. Extending in April 2019 was already a sticky thing inside the EU as it involved EU Parliamentary elections in the UK. So, whilst I think we agree on principle on the competence of the people in question, the reality was that the UK Parliament was not able to make decisions prior to the Dec 2019 election and the EU was not going to entertain that until eternity.
I mean, Brexit was stupid, but the UK was always the odd one out. Your politicians did not play ball, there was always a fight about the pound vs euro thing etc. etc. Even now the actual people in support of rejoin are 43% if one does not deduct away the 'don't knows'. The EU knew that the UK would have been even more trouble after the referendum than before.
Remember, this talking Toby Jug used to extoll the virtues of the EU when he was marketing Scotch Whisky. Then the Lyin' King dangled ermine, and he was then vehemently against it. Its hard to determine whether David Davis, Raab, or this gobshite was the most ill-prepared for negotiations with the EU or had the most rings run around them by Barnier and his thoroughly professional team. Frost is one of the best reasons for the abolition of the House of Lords.
Absolutely
He says “yes we did get there on the end” suggesting he pulled it off with his strategy. So this is what you set out for is it? Great stuff. He then blames the EU for creating it this bad situation we are in and others on the British side. “we got there in the end”. What a caricature this man is.
a charlatan and a liar
Is this the IEA: architects of Liz Truss' disastrous mini budget??
Yeps, their buckets of infinite wisdom were always empty.
No deal is what we ended up with - and found it didn't work. It was never going to work. You are either in the EU single market with full benefits of it, or you are a 3rd country.
The only thing the Brexit proved was that the EU did not need us and could afford to hold it's position. The UK negotiators, still, think that the Uk is some kind of favoured group who meerly have to turn up for everyone to bow down. They still can't grasp most other countries don't give a f' about our entitled, privileged upper class ruling elite who treat the rest of the world as inferior. They are not going to ruin their economies for the sake of UK delusion.
Very well said indeed. Fully agree.
'The EU's unwillingness to compromise' ENOUGH of this nonsense.
Well, frankly it is true when it comes to the EU's red lines. What they mean with it is that the EU did not dismantle the single market for the benefit of the UK, i.e. let the UK have its cake and eat it.
Wierd isn't it? Apparently being tough and standing firm is a virtue, until they face it on the other side of the table!
Jesus me! Beautiful example of self indulging conservatives and bla bla bla with a posh accent. Ah don’t forget: “not MY fault”
Again excuses. Who negotiated?
Blaming the counterpart for taking advantage of their crass incompetence?
Still selling those Tufton Street bridges ?
The funniest thing about this is that Frosty and Johnson gave the EU what the EU wanted and negotiated the UK out of leverage. I remember laughing my head off when they did not extend the transition period, because it was self-evident they were going to end up with an EU-authored FTA. If they think the dynamic alignment & freedom of movement chapter were not designed as a way to exclude the UK out of preferential services access, I've got another bridge to sell them.
The blind leading the blind.
Mr potato head screwed up. Now hes blaming everyone else
The whole premise that the state is responsible for people, who are fundamentally autonomous is ridiculous.
That's caused by your concept of state. I rather see that the state is the means through which the people in a community help each other to succeed.
Who funds you?
don´t ever expect an answer to that question
They asked the same of Julian Assange and he never answered either and ended up in jail
Why did you not speak up when it become obvious to you David?
good question
Perhaps he could explain all of the UKs negotiating cards?
Him huffing and puffing and threatening no deal. Unfortunately for him, the EU just prepared for no deal and stood firm.
Johnson’s Top Clown 🤡
Lord Frost, wholly and completely out of his depth in everything that he does.
Lord Gormless
Frost....."Things would have been different if I was in charge"..….
Frost, the biggest no mark ever to walk the earth!.
Too much too fast eh? Not the kind of Brexit we wanted? Not my fault, I was only the negotiator. I blame the remoaners bla bla bla
Who pays for you? You aren't an institute in the true sense. Nothing you publish is peer- reviewed. You are lobbyists.
Yawn
@@paulcassidy8130 You being tired doesn't make James wrong.
@@paulcassidy8130 You don't think the answer to that question is important? There are now way too many self-styled 'think tanks' which show meagre intellectual rigour serving solely as lobbyists for vested interests influencing policy both directly and through the media. If you don't care about democracy then yeah, 'Yawn', fair enough. Otherwise...
I still remember the photo in which you could see Barnier carrying loads of folders for the negotiations while Frost was standing. next to him without anything. No surprise that he turnrd out as ill prepared as it appeared.
You're rapidly descending into a bunch of weirdos talking to yourselves, aren't you?
The house of Lords should be abolished.All we need are 12 legal eagles to accept or reject the Commons laws.
I'd be very sorry if there isn't another SHWS series; always interesting and a nice balance to other IEA output. You can't have run out of interesting people with whom to chat!
ITS NICE T WORKED ON TORY RULES NEVER WAS
It still surprises me how these idiots misinterpret things like the Irish border sequence. They think Enda Kenny was going to solve the border differently, when in reality he was the one who organised the whole Irish diplomatic effort to get the EU's muscle behind Ireland, because he had evidently seen that it cannot be solved easily. Varadkar came to power after the negotiations had already started and he had no authority to negotiate on behalf of the EU, only Barnier did.
But then again, to understand this would require thinking and the ability to see the other's point of view, so I am not really surprised...
Lord Frost lies here - the backstop was not dismantled - the Windsor Protocol is the backstop. Too much patting himself on the back for what was in fact BRINO.
Nah. They did dismantle May's backstop by giving the EU what it wanted. It was a genuine negotiating triumph. (Sarcasm warming.)
Frost for Cons leader.
This looks very interesting, looking forward to watching
The Unelected Fake Lord!
Why is anyone to this nonsense blabbering liar?
We should removed Blairs Human rights law from English Law
just like your brain 14 years ago
Why