Good question! The QSO's in question were where someone sent their call, thought I copied it all, and sent me their RST and QTH. After they were done sending, I'd send "CALL?". If it's during the initial pileup, I'll come back with a partial and a ?.....so let's suppose K4SWL calls me, and all I hear is the WL, I might send "WL?". If it's already halfway through the exchange, and it's obvious I'm working one single station, I'll just reply with "CALL ?" or "CALL AGN?"
Good video and great points! You said it right, as an activator, I want to work you! Common courtesies make it easier for me to do that and make it more fun for everyone.
On behalf of the CW POTA activators I thank you for saying whats needed to be said! Also, a technique I recommend is to slightly detune yourself when sending in a pileup. Its extremely easy to pickup someone when they are the only one sending an 800Hz sidetone in a pileup of 20 700Hz sidetones. Whenever hunters use that trick I tend to go for them first.
@@EvanK2EJT it's really sad when so many people zero beat the station because most of the pileup is one massive tone, which inevitably forces me to use calls who tail end since they are the only ones I can decode. It feels bad because I end up encouraging bad behavior with that
Good video. I have also noticed an increase in this lately. Today I was at home hunting a new 10000 park amd it was an absolute mosh pit. Multiple people sending their call multiple times! However, I’m a firm believer that Activators need to CONTROL a pile up. I started on SSB and learned very quickly how to run many many QSOs quickly. There are many tricks but the two biggest rules are 1) I answer NO call until I have said Q R Zed 2) I avoid tail-enders at all costs (sometimes this rule is broken). There are other tricks as well. For CW I CONTROL my activations by using some tricks as well. 1) I let all sounds go until there is COMPLETE silence and then I call out the Call Sign or digits I heard first thing. I’ve had callers give there call sign FIVE times. I don’t care. I wait it out and I NEVER return a multiple call sign caller. The great thing about CW is they have to intently listen to what you’re doing and your habits. They figure it out quickly. With SSB the chaos can be more confusing because they don’t have to listen as intently. 2) If I call KN4? and multiple lids call back. If I didn’t here a K N or a 4. I call KN4? again and again. I’ll do it 4-5 times before I throw in the towel. 3) If the pile up is a slur of sound. I reply “x” ? x = whatever number pops into my head. Many times this works well. Instead of replying ? and getting a repeat of that “slur of sound”. 4) I concentrate very hard on trying to pull out the first letter or call sign I hear after my dit dit. Anyone who has activated knows this is a lot harder than it sounds. But I still try hard to do that.
You are so right Evan. Some people just don’t have common courtesy when operating. When I hear a pileup as a hunter, I just back off and come back later. I hope the operators that are not courteous are viewing this video. Thanks for doing this video - it needs to be said. 👍
Tailgating is the most frequent annoyance, especially when I'm chasing from home and appropriately waiting my turn to jump in. Then, I hear the OP sending 73 and boom!!!!.....the new chaser comes bombing in. OP doesn't even make it to dit dit...never mind the chaser following up with their dit dit. Obnoxious. K6ARK had a great line one day. Control the pile up or the pile up controls you. When I can, I try to ignore those not following etiquette. However, sometimes you just can't ignore them until you respond to them. They are just oblivious. I hate responding to them to simply clear out the noise and get to everyone else, but it's necessary at times. I know I'm reinforcing their behavior though. That's when I send etiquette reminders from a burner email account, in a professional manner though. It's done to hopefully mitigate future bad behavior. Why a burner account? Sometimes people don't like being told things, even in a kind manner. That's to prevent intentional QRM on a future activation.
Absolutely. Agreed on all points. Sometimes I think some people just don't really know any better....and then I look at their QRZ page and it's OBVIOUS they should know better LOL
Great video, Evan. I've noticed some of these issues getting worse in the last few months. It could be because more folks are getting into CW, but at times it can make it very difficult.
Evan, Great job on the video! I wanted to comment on the case where someone appears to be sending their call sign over and over again. I've run across this myself as an activator. In some cases, it may be the caller is not really responding to your POTA activation but actually working split and responding to a DX station that is listening 1 or 2 up in frequency. The caller may not know you are on his sending frequency since he is listening to the DX station 1 or 2 down from you. For that reason, I tend to set up my POTA activations on 20 meters to around 14.060 (40 meters 7.060), above where the DX stations usually set up. Anyway, keep up the good work, and keep these videos coming! They are very helpful! 73 Jerry AC4BT
Great video. I think another point is: don’t zero beat me. Use your XIT. I am parked on a frequency that i posted on the pota app. It is nigh to impossible to hear if 5-15 stations are on the exact frequency as I am sending their callsigns. I wish their was a q-code for “spread your calls out” 😊
Absolutely! I preach that constantly. I have videos where it's a massive pile up of zero beating stations, and one call is like 50hz off frequency and you can pick them out clear as day against the solid wall of drone from the other stations.
Yep! I experienced every one of those things earlier. Thanks for the video. Hopefully some of the more unruly hunters watch it and take things to heart.
I'm pretty new to CW, but I'm at the point of total immersion, and my best practice at this point is on air calling CQ for activations. I love this video. I have learned so much by simply listening to experienced ops and how they work. ... I've also come to realize there are many ops like me who are still learning to copy. I've noticed many of these bad etiquette things you've brought up, but being new to the mode, I have no baseline. .... So here's my glass half-full relizition. ... It's most likely that you're seeing an increase in "bad bahavior" due to there being a large influx of new CW ops learning the mode through POTA hunting. .... So it's not really a bad thing, but something that could use help and positive influence.
Oh for sure. New ops are going to make mistakes. I'm all for new CW ops! For what it's worth, I'm probably still considered a new CW operator. I didn't start learning Morse code until November of 2022. Good on you for learning, and you're doing it the right way by listening on the air! The ones that drive me insane are the ones I know are seasoned folks who have bad manners, and that's more who this video is aimed at. Thanks for the thoughtful comments, and thanks for watching!
Touching back to this, ‘24 13 colonies event on SSB was the most obnoxious thing I’ve experienced pile-up wise. It was gentlemanly on CW from what I observed, but between several recent POTA and 13Col sideband horrors I’ve experienced, it makes me glad I have been picking up Morse.
Even CW was a trainwreck at times.....in fact, I literally just finished a DX/SES etiquette video two minutes ago. I'm going to upload it now and it'll be live tonight. Yeah, behavior has gotten out of control, and it's unfortunate. Thanks for watching!
Thank you for putting this out. Generally speaking, my experience has been quite nice activating. Sometimes when hunting I hear the rudeness. Should I mention DXpeditions as they are a moshpit of rudeness?
I had my first CW QSO 2 days ago, someone in a park (VKFF), and as soon as I touched the key, all my brain went to mush, so everything you said there, I completely blew it hahaha but it's still very useful to hear!
Congrats on your first CW QSO! That's an accomplishment! Believe it or not, sometimes my brain goes to mush and I forget what I'm doing sometimes too, and I'm pretty experienced. It happens to all of us. The important thing is that you got on the air!
Thank you for this video!! Some of these examples are why I haven’t made my first POTA activation yet as a new Morse code op. Even as a new op, I know these guidelines. Hams with decades in hobby certainly know and choose to ignore good practice.
You'll find that once you get your first CW activation under your belt, the rest come much easier. You'll still have to deal with the occasional lid, but generally you're so busy operating the radio that you only notice the really obnoxious ones LOL. Thanks for watching!
I totally agree with what you said. I've had many hunters send their call over and over and disregarding who I am trying to actually work. Thanks Evan for the video and hope others see this as well.
I was activating a few weeks ago and ran into this very same issue. I was trying to work a W0 station that was 339. Some K4 station kept coming back everytime at 599+. I didn’t know what to do so I turned up my power to 25w. Held down the dit on the paddles for a good 10 seconds. Sent “K4 stop” about 3 times and finished my QSO with the W0 station.
Yeah, it's frustrating. I'm not sure if people don't listen, or if they're too selfish to wait until you're ready to work them. The irritating part is that we WANT to work them, it's not like we're going to ignore them, but you can only work one station at a time. I think you handled it well. Thanks for watching!
Its definitely become chaotic..after awhile its just a headache inducing noise of stations and switch over to digital and volume off. Thought about notching my tx frequency and then setting my rit up about 60-70hz.
This been going on for years. Sota gets worse at times. Maybe someone will take your advice but unlikely. The more it gets popular , the more unruly it gets. Part of inviting everyone to the party. Some show up already drunk 😂
Im a newer CW op but can easily manage 10-11wpm. I send at 11wpm to encourage people to send at the same apeed. Ive had a lot of folks recently if i miss a call they drop back to 3wpm to be dramatic about it and take a minute to send their call 3 times. Yeah, i got it after the first slo mo. Often its other people running over them when the calls go out so i just cant hear the whole thing.
I was always a little unclear about the etiquette about calling as a hunter as I'm waiting for the activator to finish a QSL. On SSB I always wait for the activator to call QRZ before they throw their call out, but I notice people rarely do this on CW. I always wait until the 73 response from the hunter before throwing my call out there, which sounds like the right thing to do. No need to wait for the activator to call CQ again, right?
Great question! Generally speaking, a CW activator will end their QSO with a dit dit. When you hear the hunter respond with dit dit, send your call. If the activator isn't sending dits, figure out what they're ending the QSO with. It might just be 73. It might be TU. Figure out what they're ending with, and as soon as you hear that, send your call. Nine times out of ten though, it'll be two dits. If you hear an activator calling CQ, just respond when they're done with the CQ call. If you hear them call QRZ? respond as soon as you hear the question mark. Thanks for watching!
We hams always have to police ourselves. Society appears to be losing it's manners. Be the example and don't reward bad behavior, that's all we can do. 73
POTA can get nuts. I kinda like the challenge lol. FWIW, If I am chasing POTA and the pileup is unruly I will not even TX. Pointless to add to the confusion and I'll get the activator in the log another time.
I've been licensed since 1975 and returned to ham radio after a break of 30-years only to discover this phenom called POTA/SOTA. While it's nice to see people discover and enjoy CW, I'm all for politely enforcing CW etiquette since we are supposed to be a self-policing hobby. The downside of POTA/SOTA is that those activities have altered longstanding CW operating practices and etiquette for the sake of brevity. There's too much of a contest mentality which turns me off. I much prefer CW ragchews at any speed.
Different strokes for different folks. I do it all. I'll do POTA or SOTA activations, do contests, or just call CQ and have a rag chew. That's the beauty of it. You can do it the way you like.
Lids these days making up q codes and other poor on air behavior, none of this was ever a problem before the FCC invented FT8 and got rid of the code test!
Just getting started... If you send "CALL?" how do I know you're asking for *my* call, especially if there are others trying to get in, too?
Good question! The QSO's in question were where someone sent their call, thought I copied it all, and sent me their RST and QTH. After they were done sending, I'd send "CALL?". If it's during the initial pileup, I'll come back with a partial and a ?.....so let's suppose K4SWL calls me, and all I hear is the WL, I might send "WL?". If it's already halfway through the exchange, and it's obvious I'm working one single station, I'll just reply with "CALL ?" or "CALL AGN?"
@@EvanK2EJT Thanks.
@@ChrisRomp No problem! Thanks for watching, and thanks for the great question
QRZ literally means "who is calling me." In this instance I'd suggest using "QRZ KD#?" or similar.
Good video and great points! You said it right, as an activator, I want to work you! Common courtesies make it easier for me to do that and make it more fun for everyone.
On behalf of the CW POTA activators I thank you for saying whats needed to be said!
Also, a technique I recommend is to slightly detune yourself when sending in a pileup. Its extremely easy to pickup someone when they are the only one sending an 800Hz sidetone in a pileup of 20 700Hz sidetones. Whenever hunters use that trick I tend to go for them first.
Absolutely! Rule number one for calling a pileup is never zero beat the station
@@EvanK2EJT it's really sad when so many people zero beat the station because most of the pileup is one massive tone, which inevitably forces me to use calls who tail end since they are the only ones I can decode. It feels bad because I end up encouraging bad behavior with that
Good video. I have also noticed an increase in this lately. Today I was at home hunting a new 10000 park amd it was an absolute mosh pit. Multiple people sending their call multiple times! However, I’m a firm believer that Activators need to CONTROL a pile up. I started on SSB and learned very quickly how to run many many QSOs quickly. There are many tricks but the two biggest rules are 1) I answer NO call until I have said Q R Zed 2) I avoid tail-enders at all costs (sometimes this rule is broken). There are other tricks as well.
For CW I CONTROL my activations by using some tricks as well.
1) I let all sounds go until there is COMPLETE silence and then I call out the Call Sign or digits I heard first thing. I’ve had callers give there call sign FIVE times. I don’t care. I wait it out and I NEVER return a multiple call sign caller. The great thing about CW is they have to intently listen to what you’re doing and your habits. They figure it out quickly. With SSB the chaos can be more confusing because they don’t have to listen as intently.
2) If I call KN4? and multiple lids call back. If I didn’t here a K N or a 4. I call KN4? again and again. I’ll do it 4-5 times before I throw in the towel.
3) If the pile up is a slur of sound. I reply “x” ? x = whatever number pops into my head. Many times this works well. Instead of replying ? and getting a repeat of that “slur of sound”.
4) I concentrate very hard on trying to pull out the first letter or call sign I hear after my dit dit. Anyone who has activated knows this is a lot harder than it sounds. But I still try hard to do that.
I do the exact same things. I absolutely agree that you have to control your pileup or the pileup controls you!
You are so right Evan. Some people just don’t have common courtesy when operating. When I hear a pileup as a hunter, I just back off and come back later. I hope the operators that are not courteous are viewing this video. Thanks for doing this video - it needs to be said. 👍
Tailgating is the most frequent annoyance, especially when I'm chasing from home and appropriately waiting my turn to jump in. Then, I hear the OP sending 73 and boom!!!!.....the new chaser comes bombing in. OP doesn't even make it to dit dit...never mind the chaser following up with their dit dit. Obnoxious. K6ARK had a great line one day. Control the pile up or the pile up controls you. When I can, I try to ignore those not following etiquette. However, sometimes you just can't ignore them until you respond to them. They are just oblivious. I hate responding to them to simply clear out the noise and get to everyone else, but it's necessary at times. I know I'm reinforcing their behavior though. That's when I send etiquette reminders from a burner email account, in a professional manner though. It's done to hopefully mitigate future bad behavior. Why a burner account? Sometimes people don't like being told things, even in a kind manner. That's to prevent intentional QRM on a future activation.
Absolutely. Agreed on all points. Sometimes I think some people just don't really know any better....and then I look at their QRZ page and it's OBVIOUS they should know better LOL
Great video, Evan. I've noticed some of these issues getting worse in the last few months. It could be because more folks are getting into CW, but at times it can make it very difficult.
Yeah, I'm all for new CW operators. Heck, I teach them. I just want people to develop good habits. Thanks for watching!
Evan,
Great job on the video! I wanted to comment on the case where someone appears to be sending their call sign over and over again. I've run across this myself as an activator. In some cases, it may be the caller is not really responding to your POTA activation but actually working split and responding to a DX station that is listening 1 or 2 up in frequency. The caller may not know you are on his sending frequency since he is listening to the DX station 1 or 2 down from you. For that reason, I tend to set up my POTA activations on 20 meters to around 14.060 (40 meters 7.060), above where the DX stations usually set up.
Anyway, keep up the good work, and keep these videos coming! They are very helpful!
73
Jerry AC4BT
Definitely a good point, and something I hadn't considered.
Exactly Jerry. Stay away from the typical DX frequencies.
Great video. I think another point is: don’t zero beat me. Use your XIT. I am parked on a frequency that i posted on the pota app. It is nigh to impossible to hear if 5-15 stations are on the exact frequency as I am sending their callsigns. I wish their was a q-code for “spread your calls out” 😊
Absolutely! I preach that constantly. I have videos where it's a massive pile up of zero beating stations, and one call is like 50hz off frequency and you can pick them out clear as day against the solid wall of drone from the other stations.
Great video! I've noticed the increase in people sending their calls multiple times over the past few months as well.
Yeah, I'm not sure where that came from, but its very distracting.
Yep! I experienced every one of those things earlier. Thanks for the video. Hopefully some of the more unruly hunters watch it and take things to heart.
I'm pretty new to CW, but I'm at the point of total immersion, and my best practice at this point is on air calling CQ for activations. I love this video. I have learned so much by simply listening to experienced ops and how they work. ... I've also come to realize there are many ops like me who are still learning to copy. I've noticed many of these bad etiquette things you've brought up, but being new to the mode, I have no baseline. .... So here's my glass half-full relizition. ... It's most likely that you're seeing an increase in "bad bahavior" due to there being a large influx of new CW ops learning the mode through POTA hunting. .... So it's not really a bad thing, but something that could use help and positive influence.
Oh for sure. New ops are going to make mistakes. I'm all for new CW ops! For what it's worth, I'm probably still considered a new CW operator. I didn't start learning Morse code until November of 2022. Good on you for learning, and you're doing it the right way by listening on the air! The ones that drive me insane are the ones I know are seasoned folks who have bad manners, and that's more who this video is aimed at. Thanks for the thoughtful comments, and thanks for watching!
Evan, you are spot on with everything you discussed in this video. Agree with everything said. Great video!
Great video Evan. I am just starting out in the cw world and this was some great information. Looking forward to your followup videos. Jim
Thanks! CW is a blast. I look forward to hearing you on the air!
Touching back to this, ‘24 13 colonies event on SSB was the most obnoxious thing I’ve experienced pile-up wise. It was gentlemanly on CW from what I observed, but between several recent POTA and 13Col sideband horrors I’ve experienced, it makes me glad I have been picking up Morse.
Even CW was a trainwreck at times.....in fact, I literally just finished a DX/SES etiquette video two minutes ago. I'm going to upload it now and it'll be live tonight. Yeah, behavior has gotten out of control, and it's unfortunate. Thanks for watching!
Thank you for putting this out. Generally speaking, my experience has been quite nice activating. Sometimes when hunting I hear the rudeness. Should I mention DXpeditions as they are a moshpit of rudeness?
Yeah, don't even get me started on DXpeditions. They're just straight up unruly!
I had my first CW QSO 2 days ago, someone in a park (VKFF), and as soon as I touched the key, all my brain went to mush, so everything you said there, I completely blew it hahaha but it's still very useful to hear!
Congrats on your first CW QSO! That's an accomplishment! Believe it or not, sometimes my brain goes to mush and I forget what I'm doing sometimes too, and I'm pretty experienced. It happens to all of us. The important thing is that you got on the air!
Thank you for this video!! Some of these examples are why I haven’t made my first POTA activation yet as a new Morse code op. Even as a new op, I know these guidelines. Hams with decades in hobby certainly know and choose to ignore good practice.
You'll find that once you get your first CW activation under your belt, the rest come much easier. You'll still have to deal with the occasional lid, but generally you're so busy operating the radio that you only notice the really obnoxious ones LOL. Thanks for watching!
Thank you!
You're welcome. Thanks for watching!
I totally agree with what you said. I've had many hunters send their call over and over and disregarding who I am trying to actually work. Thanks Evan for the video and hope others see this as well.
Thanks so much for the reminder. We needed this.
I was activating a few weeks ago and ran into this very same issue. I was trying to work a W0 station that was 339. Some K4 station kept coming back everytime at 599+. I didn’t know what to do so I turned up my power to 25w. Held down the dit on the paddles for a good 10 seconds. Sent “K4 stop” about 3 times and finished my QSO with the W0 station.
Yeah, it's frustrating. I'm not sure if people don't listen, or if they're too selfish to wait until you're ready to work them. The irritating part is that we WANT to work them, it's not like we're going to ignore them, but you can only work one station at a time. I think you handled it well. Thanks for watching!
Amen! Applies to SSB as well. It seems to be happening a lot more lately on SSB, which was a lot to begin with. Don’t be extra lol
Its definitely become chaotic..after awhile its just a headache inducing noise of stations and switch over to digital and volume off. Thought about notching my tx frequency and then setting my rit up about 60-70hz.
This been going on for years. Sota gets worse at times. Maybe someone will take your advice but unlikely. The more it gets popular , the more unruly it gets. Part of inviting everyone to the party. Some show up already drunk 😂
LOL fair enough
Im a newer CW op but can easily manage 10-11wpm. I send at 11wpm to encourage people to send at the same apeed. Ive had a lot of folks recently if i miss a call they drop back to 3wpm to be dramatic about it and take a minute to send their call 3 times. Yeah, i got it after the first slo mo. Often its other people running over them when the calls go out so i just cant hear the whole thing.
I was always a little unclear about the etiquette about calling as a hunter as I'm waiting for the activator to finish a QSL. On SSB I always wait for the activator to call QRZ before they throw their call out, but I notice people rarely do this on CW. I always wait until the 73 response from the hunter before throwing my call out there, which sounds like the right thing to do. No need to wait for the activator to call CQ again, right?
Great question! Generally speaking, a CW activator will end their QSO with a dit dit. When you hear the hunter respond with dit dit, send your call. If the activator isn't sending dits, figure out what they're ending the QSO with. It might just be 73. It might be TU. Figure out what they're ending with, and as soon as you hear that, send your call. Nine times out of ten though, it'll be two dits. If you hear an activator calling CQ, just respond when they're done with the CQ call. If you hear them call QRZ? respond as soon as you hear the question mark. Thanks for watching!
It all comes down to newer CW operators or hams that don’t know what POTA is, if people would just listen to the exchanges they would know.
Agreed. Rule number one......listen. People forget the basics sometimes I think. Thanks for watching!
And for the love of God, don't tune up on frequency!
Ain't that the truth!
We hams always have to police ourselves.
Society appears to be losing it's manners.
Be the example and don't reward bad behavior, that's all we can do. 73
Great video Evan!
Thanks! I feel like some people need to hear it
POTA can get nuts. I kinda like the challenge lol. FWIW, If I am chasing POTA and the pileup is unruly I will not even TX. Pointless to add to the confusion and I'll get the activator in the log another time.
Absolutely Chris. I agree. I try not to add to the chaos. There are some exceptions to that, but generally speaking that's how I roll as well.
Excellent points but that poor behavior is also on SSB especially people calling over an on going POTA conversation
Oh, for sure..........this goes for every mode. CW, SSB, FT8, everything!
well said
If I may add one more request to chasers, please, please, please don't tune up right on the frequency I am activating on. 🙂
Absloutely!
QBL = “Quantitative Blood Loss” after a vaginal delivery in my OB world
@@Brighamdoc lol I know. In this usage it's a made up Q code for Quit Being a Lid
I've been licensed since 1975 and returned to ham radio after a break of 30-years only to discover this phenom called POTA/SOTA. While it's nice to see people discover and enjoy CW, I'm all for politely enforcing CW etiquette since we are supposed to be a self-policing hobby. The downside of POTA/SOTA is that those activities have altered longstanding CW operating practices and etiquette for the sake of brevity. There's too much of a contest mentality which turns me off. I much prefer CW ragchews at any speed.
Different strokes for different folks. I do it all. I'll do POTA or SOTA activations, do contests, or just call CQ and have a rag chew. That's the beauty of it. You can do it the way you like.
Lids these days making up q codes and other poor on air behavior, none of this was ever a problem before the FCC invented FT8 and got rid of the code test!
That darn FCC. Inventing fancy things like FT8. Too bad they can't keep the kids off my lawn 🤣
It's true. I had to go take an FT8 test at the FCC office to renew my license and it was atrocious.
@@santiagom9727 Did you have to take the -12db FT8 test or the -24db FT8 test?
@@EvanK2EJT I can't tell you how bad the -24dB test was. I had such a hard time hearing the darn screech. Was that a K or a C. Ugh.
@@santiagom9727 I feel for ya. Did they make you take it on 80m? If so, did you hear any prostate complaints or conspiracy theories?