From the looks of it, only one end of that strap is attached to the 3D printed hook. The other end is attached to the eyelet in the ceiling. That means it only held 1/2 a Joel as the weight was distributed between both ends of the strap. If it held ~200kg before it should definitely hold the full Joel by itself.
I think a lot of people forget the difference between strength and toughness: -Strength is a measure of the maximum load a material can handle in a given cross-section. It is properly represented by force divided by a unit area, hence the use of megapascals (for metric units) and pounds per square inch (for Murrican units) for measurements of tensile strength. -Toughness is the combination of strength as listed previously and the measure of a material's ductility. Ductility measures the permanent deformation a material can experience before it comes apart...for example, gold and copper are highly ductile because they can be stretched out a great deal, while concrete has very little ductility by comparison. A material that is both very strong and highly ductile has excellent toughness, a weak material that is brittle would have awful toughness, and strong yet brittle and weak yet ductile materials fall somewhere in between. PLA is incredibly strong, and is indeed the strongest common printing material by far - ABS has roughly 2/3 the strength of PLA while PETG is only a little better than that (PC is generally stronger than PLA but is challenging to print for most people). PLA is, however, also the most brittle of the common filaments - ABS has a toughness that makes it a generally better choice than PLA for prints that are used under load. PLA makes for great Deadpool busts and D&D accessories but I wouldn't use it to make a mounting bracket for something in my car even if it were heat treated to improve its temperature resistance. Given that this video only evaluated the strengths of the materials rather than the toughness, the end result with ABS being the worst and PLA only being outclassed by a specialty engineering material was 100% in line with my expectations.
This is 100% one of the best comments. Strength vs Toughness has to be one of the most common myths in the 3D printing world. A lot of people don't realise how strong PLA is especially when used in pure load bearing scenario. But it's brittleness makes it problematic in any situation where you have moving loads, torsion etc. This is where materials like ABS and PETG excel. The second big myth is about PLA's biodegradability but I digress...
Indeed didn't surprise me much, I'd have thought the spread would be slightly different. Its also why you design for the material you intend to use, ABS is the cheap goto because it isn't prone to creeping the way PLA is, is temperature stable, can be solvent welded with readily available solvent - its more than just any one stat that makes a material good for the job, and even then its only good for the job when you design such that the material is kept within in its temp/mechanical/chemical limits!
Thanks for featuring my snap close connector design! I've just had some of them 3D printed via SLM in aluminium and stainless steel and I'll be strength testing them on a one tonne tensile test rig that I built - great minds think alike!
do not confuse impact resistance whit tensile strength the necessary material property for traction testing. Take a look at some data sheets and you will see the of the PLA is almost the same as PEEK about 100MPa, nylon is about 70MPa and about 50MPa for ABS. So no real surprise in the order of the materials.
Every in-depth strength test I've watched on RUclips has shown PLA to be one of the strongest materials out of the common printing materials. I don't understand why people still think it's a weak material. The issue with PLA is it melts sooner than the other materials and has poor UV resistance; strength is not something it lacks though.
Why I think PLA is weak and why i prefer PETG: PLA is brittle. The high tensile strength of PLA is often thwarted by the fact that it will snap just by dropping on hard floor ( depending on the geometry of the part )
I'm in agreement with some of the other comments. I think you need less variables in the tests and doing 3 or 4 tests of each averaging the results provides more trusted stats. I also have to point out that minor print glitches would surely result in weak spots. Thanks Joel.
I trust the ABS test but I'm kinda surprised you didn't try Nylon from a 3d printer (Tillman makes some), PETG and PLA + , might also be interesting to see what some resin ones would perform like
So...it's worth saying that there is a difference between static and dynamic loads, and definitely don't put your life or risk serious injury in this part made of plastic. Just because it can hold a Joel once, doesn't mean it can hold a Joel the 10th or 20th time he puts his weight on it. As seen, when it fails, it fails hard. Metal parts (ideally) fail by deforming before total failure, which can give you time to get safe.
I believe the ABS result is valid as it has more impact strength than PLA but not tensile strength. Would like to see the full Joel on the PLA "Frog". Great video. Keep up the good work.
The ABS test seems to follow what other channels have found. ABS isn't actually that strong of a material. It's just more flexible and heat resistant than PLA. For these types of forces, PLA is stronger.
What these sort of test don't show is how applicable to the real world this is. ABS is better practically in alot of use cases because if its impact resistance. I've made a glasses case out of PLA and ABS. I've dropped both accidentally from the same height (putting them in my locker) and the ABS held up well with little to no damage. The PLA shattered and was instantly unusable. ABS also doesn't sag either, so while ABS holds less weight, it'll hold it for longer. There's more to material selection than just "strength"
@@jamesash7368 Very true. For most "practical" use cases, ABS is the better material hands down. I was more commenting on the test results for ABS versus PLA weren't a fluke for this test in particular. When it comes to testing straight tensile forces, PLA is stronger. No need to re-test, unless he brings in more variables. I'd be interested to see ABS toughness tested against some PLA composites (PLA+) and see how the toughness/tensile strength holds up on those, but that's a different story entirely. I'm sure it's been done before.
@@jamesash7368 "ABS also doesn't sag either" -- given that sagging is directly related to the stiffness of the material, and that PLA is significantly stiffer than ABS, that is patently false.
Doing three test samples as CNC Kitchen will give more confidence on the results. If the ABS part was badly printed, it could be seen as an outlier in the data.
Honestly I would love to see a collab with CNC Kitchen to find out more. A half dozen of each of these through his rig and THAT would be a definitive answer.
You should do a follow-up with a Collab with the channel "HowNOT2", they have build a test machine to test climbing gear and also a drop tower for testing dynamic loads
For it being the most common material on the block by far, it's often overlooked for its overall usability... So long as you keep in mind that it's still plastic, it will make pretty much anything you want so long as a plastic part would be strong enough in the first place.
PLA gets a bad rap for it's perceived weakness because of its low temperature resistance (and ABS gets the opposite because of the inverse) but PLA is quite physically strong. Still the myth will persist. Thanks Joel for helping to set the record straight.
What I do on some parts to increase strength, is cut a tiny gap on the inside of the part, maybe 0.05mm thick, which forces the slicer to print perimeters wherever that tiny gap is. This allows you to put solid infill inside the part wherever you want and in whichever shape you want.
Hi. Great Video! RE: ABS vs PLA Makers Muse down under did a test to find the best filament to print gears for his wheels test program a while ago. He found that a no name brand PLA out did the ABS by a long shot too. PLA has been rising to the occasion for a while now. So not a surprising outcome for me at least. It seems 90% of your up time is focused on finding new material to do videos about. Hope RAPID is going well, or had gone well.
I very much believe the ABS result is valid. When Stefan over on CNC Kitchen tested ABS it constantly underperformed to what was ‘expected’ as we have always been told abs is much stronger than PLA. Great video sir 👍🇦🇺😊
Safety glasses are important. Maybe 1 of the face shields would be good since it would protect your entire face. You know it was dangerous because you were looking away. Glasses are not usually safety glasses.
In college I had access to an Instron tension and compression machine and we tested a bunch of materials for 3D printing. I was shocked how well PLA did, and I think PLA formulations are much better now. TPU, specifically Ninja Flex gave no result because it would NOT break. It just stretched until it maxed the machine. Keep up the testing! Oh, and run a string through your scale to keep it from slamming into the bottom hook. Just make sure it is not touching when the test is going.
That wasn’t a full Joel that was a 1/2 Joel because you had a loop with the other end on a hook your weight is distributed between the two points. It’s still awesome, but it’s a 1/2 Joel.
Yes the abs result is valid. People underestimate pla. It can deform a bit and stay together. Abs won’t deform much before breaking but is harder to deform. Like glass vs plastic.
The ABS result doesn't surprise me at all, what does surprise me is that the CF-nylon didn't do better. I had no idea that peek was so strong though, very interesting. Also, I guess I missed the Essentium interview, we use their HTN-CF25 at work and that stuff is absolutely insanely strong and easy to print.
Adding chopped fiber into a layer built substrate does not make it stronger. It is not the same forces involved as with laid CF. The short fibers simply do not penetrate far enough across the material to add strength. If anything they actually create focal points for energy and make it brittle! It does often add stiffness though, but only mildly. Bear in mind that this is the reason Markforged, and others, use continuous carbon fiber strands in their prints which ARE very much stronger. Markforged inlaid CF nylon is used in race cars and other industrial strength applications.
ABS has never been stronger, people have been listening to a myth do to it being more flexible/impact resistant. Constant even stress, PLA is FAR stronger, take a hammer and hit it and ABS will usually deform and bend before breaking. All things equal, PLA will always be "stronger". watch any testing done by people like CNC Kitchen. and others who tested it.
@@CodeMonkeX used HTPLA which has "almost" the same heat resistance after annealing. (NOT PLA+ which is not a true High Temp PLA in most cases) Never had an issue with it. All of my printer parts are PLA and nearing 5 years old and have had zero issues. ABS isn't bad or that hard to print, but is too "nasty" to print for me as my printers are in my bed room mostly. Some parts I'm doing now in PC, just because I want to test, none of the PLA version have failed.
Great test of those materials! The flexibility of the ABS and CF Nylon allows them to yield before snapping, resulting in the lower scores that you see :)
Check out Stefan's testing over at CNCKitchen. PLA is stronger than the majority of people give it credit for, and ABS weaker. Your results were exactly what I'd have anticipated seeing. As long as parts won't be exposed to UV or higher temps (Direct sunlight) I use PLA for functional prints most of the time.
Well, tricky, it could've been a fluke as it's n=1. This is why, with experiments, an n=3 is a minimum to draw any conclusions from. There are so many variables with how they're printed, etc. etc. Very nice design though!
From my vantage point, I saw 1 hook of the strap in the eyebolt & the other in the frog. You then stood in the strap so I would think that half you weight was on the frog, other half directly to the eyebolt
I don't believe ABS is stronger than PLA. PLA is a very strong material, but it's more brittle. ABS and nylon would do better with shock resistance, but maybe not material strength.
In the last test, your force weight its not the same as holding you 100% because you have another side thats clamped up with metal i believe...Basically meaning your dividing the force to half or so..you should try only one side with only the peek cf part 😉
I think reading off the scales just wasn’t working, it doesn’t update fast enough. Maybe try filling a large bucket with water or sand slowly so you have more time for the scales to read the number. Also, you only connected it to one end of the strap, so it only held half your weight.
for the ABS i am more in question of how it was printed on a open system no heated chamber vs a closed system with a heated chamber. I have notice a bit of difference with my ABS parts when printed in a heated chamber with a longer slower cool down vs when i printed with out one with a faster cool down, or it just may be me?
Joel, please wear something to protect your head when you're testing parts for failure. If that part had failed while you were hanging from it and whacked you in the noggin you'd have a very bad day. (I also think it's important to model the use of PPE for impressionable minds watching your vids.)
I do think that multiple samples are warranted here to validate the testing results (because statistics). It’s also possible that the position of the hooks varied from test to test, so coming up with some way to make sure the load is in the same place and pulling in the same direction would create more reproducible tests.
I think the abs is probably valid (what always sticks with me from CNC Kitchen videos is that we underestimate the strength of pla) but given how quick it snapped, probably good to try again, making sure the filament is nice and dry.
It was only holding half of a Joel. You have one side of the strap attached at the hook the other half attached at the 3d part. You need both hooks connected to the 3d part for it to hold an entire Joel.
ABS "baking index" is lower than PLA's that is why specifically in 3d prints ABS worst than PETG or even PLA. To print strong ABS part you would need proper setup with controlled high-temp inside of a chamber.
I'd retest ABS with the same stuff and a different brand, try different printing orientations too. I have 2 hunches from watching the break. It was either a bad batch of ABS that had other additives for color that may have effected its plasticity, making it even easier to bend. OR It was just standard layering issues we all forget about time to time, always gotta consider where the most tension is on the part, the last thing you want is horizontal layers and downward pressure. Just asking for it at that point! I've found success with 45 degree layers sloping away from the tension points, pointing towards can be weaker, Vertical lines arent bad either but those layers can open with enough downward pressure too. Try turning them 45 degrees on the X Axis and see if they come out stronger! Even better, if you can alternate Slopes on layers, you could make something freaky strong! Maybe Iron the top and bottom layers too, might help!
Definitely test again with another abs! Maybe there’s something about the printing environment or settings that might bring it closer to expected. What about PETG?
I think you should retest. I don't expect ABS to hit the same ultimate strength of PLA, but I would still expect better than that. Now I don't know whether that would be settings or the ABS itself, but I think you should have seen a bit more give before it shattered.
That PLA wins over ABS was expected. PLA is known to be stronger than most “normal” Filaments like ABS, ASA, and PETG. It’s main problem is it’s bad temperature resistance (low heat deflection temperature) in unannealed state. There is a good video from CNC Kitchen named “Comparing PLA, PETG & ASA (ABS)” [I’m not linking it, because youtubes abysmal algorithm will delete this comment otherwise)
I think the ABS is valid. From my personal tests, PLA is stonger than ABS and PETG. ABS and PETG have more give and sometimes can hold up to what PLA cannot, because when PLA is at its limit it just breaks.
@@extectic To be Hornest, I use PLA for most stuf that needs to hold up. Black PLA is great for outdoors stuff and doesn't creep. I have had parts outside for 5 Years+ that haven't changed, they have to be black mind you. Other Colors have bent whitin months.
While, completely impressive, unless I am mistaken, I think that that connector is only supporting HALF your weight in the configuration you used it. The weight is split equally between the two straps. Still, though... I HAVE to print some of those!
While it is a shocking comment on the state of the US education system, I need to point out you should have included a disclaimer that this is not to be used for overhead lift or climbing.
I wouldn’t be worried about a few trials. I would be more worried about the cycles to failure. How many times can this hold a full load, be unloaded, and so on until it fails?
Surprised about the ABS failure. However, isn't there different stress tests? I believe you were testing tensile stress. ABS can withstand more pressures (gaseous and fluid) and temperatures, I would also expect. How about PETG?
Now i have to go back thru shows to see what equipment you use. cf peek and nylon... regular printer? Press and temp? i can't tell the process you use from this video. Interesting which is why i am watching, but lacking info to make this easy to see if i want to do.
As the Greek chemists discovered, ABS plastic may get stronger after every recycling, but will be getting drastically weaker after 6/7th one, depending on mixture. So, further tests is def possible
First you tested tensile strength. Now PLA is one of the strongest materials tensile wise. It sucks temperature wise and its brittle. Kinda like glass Glass has a higher tensile strength then steel but you rather use steel then glass to make a car frame as glass will crack. So in your test the test results align. Now as for the CF part. Unless it was full strands it should also not be that strong tensile wise. If its chopped fibers then that will drastically improve stiffness and abrasion resistence but reduce tensile strength. So IOW a CF PA will deform less and stay dimensionally intact longer if you hit it than the base CF. OTOH you can take a sledge hammer to a printed Nylon part and bend it to a 90 (I done it with Taulman 910) whereas a CF 3dp Part will resist much more and will break (again more rigid/brittle - less tensile). Now another thing is deformation. You probably can print it in tpu - the tpu will probably let go but snap back to its original shape so its about as tough to destroy as a car tire - that is why we use rubber (TPU is artificial rubber) for tires as they are awsome in taking a beating. So your results were pretty much as I expected and also in line with experiments done by CNC Kitchen
From the looks of it, only one end of that strap is attached to the 3D printed hook. The other end is attached to the eyelet in the ceiling. That means it only held 1/2 a Joel as the weight was distributed between both ends of the strap. If it held ~200kg before it should definitely hold the full Joel by itself.
I was going to comment the same thing!
Same was like ummm that's half a joel
Agree, just a half of a Joel. And he should wear a helmet for this!
Yep ! Who he need on his channel is Physics Girl to explain him a few things !
I was about to say the same. Redo with a full Joel.
I think a lot of people forget the difference between strength and toughness:
-Strength is a measure of the maximum load a material can handle in a given cross-section. It is properly represented by force divided by a unit area, hence the use of megapascals (for metric units) and pounds per square inch (for Murrican units) for measurements of tensile strength.
-Toughness is the combination of strength as listed previously and the measure of a material's ductility. Ductility measures the permanent deformation a material can experience before it comes apart...for example, gold and copper are highly ductile because they can be stretched out a great deal, while concrete has very little ductility by comparison. A material that is both very strong and highly ductile has excellent toughness, a weak material that is brittle would have awful toughness, and strong yet brittle and weak yet ductile materials fall somewhere in between.
PLA is incredibly strong, and is indeed the strongest common printing material by far - ABS has roughly 2/3 the strength of PLA while PETG is only a little better than that (PC is generally stronger than PLA but is challenging to print for most people). PLA is, however, also the most brittle of the common filaments - ABS has a toughness that makes it a generally better choice than PLA for prints that are used under load. PLA makes for great Deadpool busts and D&D accessories but I wouldn't use it to make a mounting bracket for something in my car even if it were heat treated to improve its temperature resistance.
Given that this video only evaluated the strengths of the materials rather than the toughness, the end result with ABS being the worst and PLA only being outclassed by a specialty engineering material was 100% in line with my expectations.
This is 100% one of the best comments. Strength vs Toughness has to be one of the most common myths in the 3D printing world. A lot of people don't realise how strong PLA is especially when used in pure load bearing scenario. But it's brittleness makes it problematic in any situation where you have moving loads, torsion etc. This is where materials like ABS and PETG excel. The second big myth is about PLA's biodegradability but I digress...
I'm glad you said that because I was gonna say that but explained much worse
Indeed didn't surprise me much, I'd have thought the spread would be slightly different. Its also why you design for the material you intend to use, ABS is the cheap goto because it isn't prone to creeping the way PLA is, is temperature stable, can be solvent welded with readily available solvent - its more than just any one stat that makes a material good for the job, and even then its only good for the job when you design such that the material is kept within in its temp/mechanical/chemical limits!
Thanks for featuring my snap close connector design! I've just had some of them 3D printed via SLM in aluminium and stainless steel and I'll be strength testing them on a one tonne tensile test rig that I built - great minds think alike!
DMLS 6Al-4V would be nice too
Can't say i was surprised at all by the PLA beating the ABS after watching all the videos by Stefan.
do not confuse impact resistance whit tensile strength the necessary material property for traction testing. Take a look at some data sheets and you will see the of the PLA is almost the same as PEEK about 100MPa, nylon is about 70MPa and about 50MPa for ABS. So no real surprise in the order of the materials.
Every in-depth strength test I've watched on RUclips has shown PLA to be one of the strongest materials out of the common printing materials. I don't understand why people still think it's a weak material. The issue with PLA is it melts sooner than the other materials and has poor UV resistance; strength is not something it lacks though.
PLA also goes too poop with 60 degrees.
That's the big problem of PLA. If you use it in a car the first sun on the window transforms the print to a burrito.
The 3d printed gun community has known this for years. And everything else is either so expensive or finicky to print pla may be the best period
Why I think PLA is weak and why i prefer PETG:
PLA is brittle. The high tensile strength of PLA is often thwarted by the fact that it will snap just by dropping on hard floor ( depending on the geometry of the part )
@@InSahne I think you overestimate it's brittleness. Do you do many prints at 100% infill?
I'm in agreement with some of the other comments. I think you need less variables in the tests and doing 3 or 4 tests of each averaging the results provides more trusted stats. I also have to point out that minor print glitches would surely result in weak spots. Thanks Joel.
Never seen a grown man be so happy to be on a swing.
Finally you're using metric!!!!
I trust the ABS test but I'm kinda surprised you didn't try Nylon from a 3d printer (Tillman makes some), PETG and PLA + , might also be interesting to see what some resin ones would perform like
From CNCkitchen, PLA usually outperforms ABS in strength.
So...it's worth saying that there is a difference between static and dynamic loads, and definitely don't put your life or risk serious injury in this part made of plastic. Just because it can hold a Joel once, doesn't mean it can hold a Joel the 10th or 20th time he puts his weight on it. As seen, when it fails, it fails hard. Metal parts (ideally) fail by deforming before total failure, which can give you time to get safe.
I believe the ABS result is valid as it has more impact strength than PLA but not tensile strength. Would like to see the full Joel on the PLA "Frog".
Great video. Keep up the good work.
The ABS test seems to follow what other channels have found. ABS isn't actually that strong of a material. It's just more flexible and heat resistant than PLA. For these types of forces, PLA is stronger.
What these sort of test don't show is how applicable to the real world this is. ABS is better practically in alot of use cases because if its impact resistance. I've made a glasses case out of PLA and ABS. I've dropped both accidentally from the same height (putting them in my locker) and the ABS held up well with little to no damage. The PLA shattered and was instantly unusable. ABS also doesn't sag either, so while ABS holds less weight, it'll hold it for longer.
There's more to material selection than just "strength"
@@jamesash7368 Very true. For most "practical" use cases, ABS is the better material hands down. I was more commenting on the test results for ABS versus PLA weren't a fluke for this test in particular. When it comes to testing straight tensile forces, PLA is stronger. No need to re-test, unless he brings in more variables. I'd be interested to see ABS toughness tested against some PLA composites (PLA+) and see how the toughness/tensile strength holds up on those, but that's a different story entirely. I'm sure it's been done before.
@@jamesash7368 "ABS also doesn't sag either" -- given that sagging is directly related to the stiffness of the material, and that PLA is significantly stiffer than ABS, that is patently false.
@@ozrenbalic6051 what I guess I mean droop. Over time under load PLA will change shape. ABS is more resistant to this.
Carbon Fiber PEEK held THE FULL JOEL!!! LET'S GO! Thank you so much for the feature, and I can't wait to see what impossibilities come next :)
Doing three test samples as CNC Kitchen will give more confidence on the results. If the ABS part was badly printed, it could be seen as an outlier in the data.
Hi, this is not the 1st video where ABS lost big time to PLA, check out CNC Kitchen and Makers Muse and his RC car wheels project
Stefan did a test and discovered PLA was stronger than ABS and Nylon
It was only 1/2 of Joel, as the other end of the strap was connected directly to the metal eye.
Honestly I would love to see a collab with CNC Kitchen to find out more. A half dozen of each of these through his rig and THAT would be a definitive answer.
You should do a follow-up with a Collab with the channel "HowNOT2", they have build a test machine to test climbing gear and also a drop tower for testing dynamic loads
I’d love to see this
Also see CNC Kitchen if you're more deeply interested in material properties.
THIS. Would be interested to see the dynamic load properties.
I was impressed by the PLA part holding that much force
For it being the most common material on the block by far, it's often overlooked for its overall usability... So long as you keep in mind that it's still plastic, it will make pretty much anything you want so long as a plastic part would be strong enough in the first place.
PLA gets a bad rap for it's perceived weakness because of its low temperature resistance (and ABS gets the opposite because of the inverse) but PLA is quite physically strong. Still the myth will persist. Thanks Joel for helping to set the record straight.
By doubling it over like that to hold you. You should be able to put ~400kg on the bottom of the strap.
Yep, half the weight on the strap hook, half on the frog connection.
Drill bits look like Allen Wrenches :)
What I do on some parts to increase strength, is cut a tiny gap on the inside of the part, maybe 0.05mm thick, which forces the slicer to print perimeters wherever that tiny gap is. This allows you to put solid infill inside the part wherever you want and in whichever shape you want.
Hi. Great Video!
RE: ABS vs PLA
Makers Muse down under did a test to find the best filament to print gears for his wheels test program a while ago.
He found that a no name brand PLA out did the ABS by a long shot too.
PLA has been rising to the occasion for a while now. So not a surprising outcome for me at least.
It seems 90% of your up time is focused on finding new material to do videos about.
Hope RAPID is going well, or had gone well.
I very much believe the ABS result is valid. When Stefan over on CNC Kitchen tested ABS it constantly underperformed to what was ‘expected’ as we have always been told abs is much stronger than PLA.
Great video sir 👍🇦🇺😊
Oh and the last test only held one half of one Joel 😛
Safety glasses are important. Maybe 1 of the face shields would be good since it would protect your entire face.
You know it was dangerous because you were looking away.
Glasses are not usually safety glasses.
It was 1/2 Joel as your weight was distributed between each strand.
In college I had access to an Instron tension and compression machine and we tested a bunch of materials for 3D printing. I was shocked how well PLA did, and I think PLA formulations are much better now. TPU, specifically Ninja Flex gave no result because it would NOT break. It just stretched until it maxed the machine. Keep up the testing! Oh, and run a string through your scale to keep it from slamming into the bottom hook. Just make sure it is not touching when the test is going.
That wasn’t a full Joel that was a 1/2 Joel because you had a loop with the other end on a hook your weight is distributed between the two points. It’s still awesome, but it’s a 1/2 Joel.
Yes.. I was about to comment the same . Sadly only the half-Joel...
Yes the abs result is valid. People underestimate pla. It can deform a bit and stay together. Abs won’t deform much before breaking but is harder to deform. Like glass vs plastic.
The ABS result doesn't surprise me at all, what does surprise me is that the CF-nylon didn't do better. I had no idea that peek was so strong though, very interesting. Also, I guess I missed the Essentium interview, we use their HTN-CF25 at work and that stuff is absolutely insanely strong and easy to print.
Adding chopped fiber into a layer built substrate does not make it stronger. It is not the same forces involved as with laid CF. The short fibers simply do not penetrate far enough across the material to add strength. If anything they actually create focal points for energy and make it brittle! It does often add stiffness though, but only mildly.
Bear in mind that this is the reason Markforged, and others, use continuous carbon fiber strands in their prints which ARE very much stronger. Markforged inlaid CF nylon is used in race cars and other industrial strength applications.
the result with ABS is valid
I'm enjoying breaking mass being given in "spools of filament" :)
ABS has never been stronger, people have been listening to a myth do to it being more flexible/impact resistant. Constant even stress, PLA is FAR stronger, take a hammer and hit it and ABS will usually deform and bend before breaking. All things equal, PLA will always be "stronger". watch any testing done by people like CNC Kitchen. and others who tested it.
Yeah I believe it’s mostly more heat resistant. So better in chambers, or hotend parts.
@@CodeMonkeX it's not that much having better heat resistance than PLA... But ABS is pretty good there, while still being easy to print.
@@CodeMonkeX used HTPLA which has "almost" the same heat resistance after annealing. (NOT PLA+ which is not a true High Temp PLA in most cases) Never had an issue with it. All of my printer parts are PLA and nearing 5 years old and have had zero issues. ABS isn't bad or that hard to print, but is too "nasty" to print for me as my printers are in my bed room mostly. Some parts I'm doing now in PC, just because I want to test, none of the PLA version have failed.
Great test of those materials! The flexibility of the ABS and CF Nylon allows them to yield before snapping, resulting in the lower scores that you see :)
In cnc kitchen’s tests, abs has a much lower strength than pla but it bends before breaking instead of just snapping like pla
Check out Stefan's testing over at CNCKitchen. PLA is stronger than the majority of people give it credit for, and ABS weaker. Your results were exactly what I'd have anticipated seeing. As long as parts won't be exposed to UV or higher temps (Direct sunlight) I use PLA for functional prints most of the time.
and Joel, the god of informative videomemes addition
Well, tricky, it could've been a fluke as it's n=1. This is why, with experiments, an n=3 is a minimum to draw any conclusions from. There are so many variables with how they're printed, etc. etc. Very nice design though!
Always good to see you hanging around..i tried abs but had similar results to your test.
I figured PLA would surprise you. It gets a bad wrap, but I've only had issues w/ temperature resilience.
What about PETG or CF-PETG?
Ayeee I haven’t been here for a while, kinda put down my printer for a few months, but now I’m back and I’m so invested in your channel once again!!
Super fun video
From my vantage point, I saw 1 hook of the strap in the eyebolt & the other in the frog. You then stood in the strap so I would think that half you weight was on the frog, other half directly to the eyebolt
for a true test they should all be the same model. PLA was surprising but the CF Peek was amazing
I don't believe ABS is stronger than PLA. PLA is a very strong material, but it's more brittle. ABS and nylon would do better with shock resistance, but maybe not material strength.
In the last test, your force weight its not the same as holding you 100% because you have another side thats clamped up with metal i believe...Basically meaning your dividing the force to half or so..you should try only one side with only the peek cf part 😉
tensile strength of ABS is lower than that of PLA. C'mon Joel! don't you watch Stefan's videos!!?? hahahaah
Maybe Vision Miner could help and print the hooks on FDM CF-Nylon and CF-PEEK to compare parts made with both manufacturing processes.
retest def, wasn’t expecting that!
I think reading off the scales just wasn’t working, it doesn’t update fast enough. Maybe try filling a large bucket with water or sand slowly so you have more time for the scales to read the number. Also, you only connected it to one end of the strap, so it only held half your weight.
Or a slowly turning screw pulling a strap, increasing the Force gradually.
for the ABS i am more in question of how it was printed on a open system no heated chamber vs a closed system with a heated chamber. I have notice a bit of difference with my ABS parts when printed in a heated chamber with a longer slower cool down vs when i printed with out one with a faster cool down, or it just may be me?
Joel, please wear something to protect your head when you're testing parts for failure. If that part had failed while you were hanging from it and whacked you in the noggin you'd have a very bad day. (I also think it's important to model the use of PPE for impressionable minds watching your vids.)
I was more worried about his eyes on the first set of tests, but a valid point as well.
I do think that multiple samples are warranted here to validate the testing results (because statistics). It’s also possible that the position of the hooks varied from test to test, so coming up with some way to make sure the load is in the same place and pulling in the same direction would create more reproducible tests.
I think the abs is probably valid (what always sticks with me from CNC Kitchen videos is that we underestimate the strength of pla) but given how quick it snapped, probably good to try again, making sure the filament is nice and dry.
It was only holding half of a Joel. You have one side of the strap attached at the hook the other half attached at the 3d part. You need both hooks connected to the 3d part for it to hold an entire Joel.
ABS "baking index" is lower than PLA's that is why specifically in 3d prints ABS worst than PETG or even PLA. To print strong ABS part you would need proper setup with controlled high-temp inside of a chamber.
The plastic pews community has known about PLA being stronger for quite some time now. Especially if you use a good PLA+
I'd retest ABS with the same stuff and a different brand, try different printing orientations too. I have 2 hunches from watching the break.
It was either a bad batch of ABS that had other additives for color that may have effected its plasticity, making it even easier to bend. OR It was just standard layering issues we all forget about time to time, always gotta consider where the most tension is on the part, the last thing you want is horizontal layers and downward pressure. Just asking for it at that point!
I've found success with 45 degree layers sloping away from the tension points, pointing towards can be weaker, Vertical lines arent bad either but those layers can open with enough downward pressure too. Try turning them 45 degrees on the X Axis and see if they come out stronger! Even better, if you can alternate Slopes on layers, you could make something freaky strong! Maybe Iron the top and bottom layers too, might help!
Definitely test again with another abs! Maybe there’s something about the printing environment or settings that might bring it closer to expected. What about PETG?
CNC Kitchen has shown on many occasions how PLA is stronger than ABS in tests like this.
Why not put the measuring unit below the frog clamp? That way when it breaks it won't fly to the floor
What was the chamber temperature for ABS?
A 90c chamber will produce parts that are much stronger than 50c
It +would be interesting to see PETG , if you do a "V2" of this test.
I think you should retest. I don't expect ABS to hit the same ultimate strength of PLA, but I would still expect better than that. Now I don't know whether that would be settings or the ABS itself, but I think you should have seen a bit more give before it shattered.
but that was the half joel
I THOUGHT SO! When Sean and I shot this, I mentioned something like that. He said we were fine. I THINK WE NEED A RETEST.
What I think is that I will cast them out of aluminum or aluminum-bronze and not worry about them breaking. Thank you for showing me this.
I am not normally this guy but you really really should have had safety glasses on.
For one, you shouldn't be in line with the tensioner. You should have had a fulcrum/pulley point in the ceiling so you could ratchet out of the line.
People always seem to underestimate PLA. It's pretty strong, it just doesn't like heat much.
Pla is stronger than abs
I agree with the others it did not hold the full Joel and I believe that the pla would have held you up as well you are not over 300 lbs I guess
This looks like a job for CNC Kitchen
PLA is so underrated for mechanical parts, and it works so well. Forget ABS.
Full joel... you never go full joel!
That PLA wins over ABS was expected. PLA is known to be stronger than most “normal” Filaments like ABS, ASA, and PETG. It’s main problem is it’s bad temperature resistance (low heat deflection temperature) in unannealed state.
There is a good video from CNC Kitchen named “Comparing PLA, PETG & ASA (ABS)”
[I’m not linking it, because youtubes abysmal algorithm will delete this comment otherwise)
Can you add the cost of the CF PEEK part Assembly?
I believe its valid, but its always good to retest your findings. also maybe use a come-a-long instead of the ratchet strap.
Probably in the comments somewhere, but tell Destin to also bring one of his snatch block setups and it will be much easier to apply the load.
SNATCH BLOCK!
I see a colab between Joel and Project Farm. Lol.
I think the ABS is valid. From my personal tests, PLA is stonger than ABS and PETG. ABS and PETG have more give and sometimes can hold up to what PLA cannot, because when PLA is at its limit it just breaks.
Yup, the things that disqualify PLA is the large tendency to creep, as well as the very low temperature tolerance, for mechanical applications.
@@extectic To be Hornest, I use PLA for most stuf that needs to hold up. Black PLA is great for outdoors stuff and doesn't creep. I have had parts outside for 5 Years+ that haven't changed, they have to be black mind you. Other Colors have bent whitin months.
While, completely impressive, unless I am mistaken, I think that that connector is only supporting HALF your weight in the configuration you used it. The weight is split equally between the two straps. Still, though... I HAVE to print some of those!
Hmmm. Something that says patented I should always check if IS or WAS patented.
While it is a shocking comment on the state of the US education system, I need to point out you should have included a disclaimer that this is not to be used for overhead lift or climbing.
It's not the full Joel on the frog connector, but only half joel.
Full Joel is distributed on each strap.
Awesome tests…. Thank you so much for sharing this….
ABS mechanical advantage over PLA is with higher temperature. At room temp PLA is essentially better in any possible way.
I wouldn’t be worried about a few trials. I would be more worried about the cycles to failure. How many times can this hold a full load, be unloaded, and so on until it fails?
Surprised about the ABS failure. However, isn't there different stress tests? I believe you were testing tensile stress. ABS can withstand more pressures (gaseous and fluid) and temperatures, I would also expect. How about PETG?
I think you should retest with abs and Asa! To see if there’s difference
Double the thickness...wonder if it increases hold capability more than double
honestly retesting the ABS would be great if nothing else to just increase the sample pool
Now i have to go back thru shows to see what equipment you use. cf peek and nylon... regular printer? Press and temp? i can't tell the process you use from this video. Interesting which is why i am watching, but lacking info to make this easy to see if i want to do.
As the Greek chemists discovered, ABS plastic may get stronger after every recycling, but will be getting drastically weaker after 6/7th one, depending on mixture. So, further tests is def possible
First you tested tensile strength. Now PLA is one of the strongest materials tensile wise. It sucks temperature wise and its brittle. Kinda like glass Glass has a higher tensile strength then steel but you rather use steel then glass to make a car frame as glass will crack. So in your test the test results align. Now as for the CF part. Unless it was full strands it should also not be that strong tensile wise. If its chopped fibers then that will drastically improve stiffness and abrasion resistence but reduce tensile strength. So IOW a CF PA will deform less and stay dimensionally intact longer if you hit it than the base CF. OTOH you can take a sledge hammer to a printed Nylon part and bend it to a 90 (I done it with Taulman 910) whereas a CF 3dp Part will resist much more and will break (again more rigid/brittle - less tensile). Now another thing is deformation. You probably can print it in tpu - the tpu will probably let go but snap back to its original shape so its about as tough to destroy as a car tire - that is why we use rubber (TPU is artificial rubber) for tires as they are awsome in taking a beating. So your results were pretty much as I expected and also in line with experiments done by CNC Kitchen
JOEL NOT UNIT OF MEASURE!
….yet!
You went full joel.... never go full joel🤣
@3d printing nerd what settings did you use? 0.2? shells? infill?
Good day
I have a project that I need a tray to hold about fifteen pounds. The tray needs to be 21.25 x 15 x 1
How could print these for me?