Tournament Finals 2023 - Ep 77 - An Agarthan Throne
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- Опубликовано: 21 апр 2024
- Agartha strikes out to be the proud owner of a genuine throne. TC has some other thoughts though.
We also go on for a while still in shock about the defiler of dreams. 
Игры
The 80 Elves had been stealthed into that province led by a commander with a Shade Mail; this idea was to have our taking a fight on that throne with an actual army be a surprise.
Latch moved that shade mail to a scout to move it home, which was good to prevent Ghost Riders from interrupting movement, but meant the Earth Attack cast at that province was able to assassinate them. We had a dude immune to Earth Attack in that province, so what we should have done is brought a crown of command to regear him for this turn.
It's not at all rough emotionally to lose the fight; we're out of the game, so our goal is just to have fun killing our enemies' stuff, while spending down our stockpiles.
Still, the Earth Attack luck had been surreal; picking our Wind of Death caster out of 40 commanders inside a fort, and then hitting this 20% chance to hit the guy in charge of the troops in that one of two places we could have been sneaking through. We do get a lot of Earth attacks every turn just to kill random mages, but largely they do not target provinces where there's anyone important, so it's mostly been spending 5 gems to kill a random one of our 250 or so commanders, 4 or so times every turn... But a few turns where it's been well targeted, it saved an enemy army... But they're definitely getting lucky that it has been impactful at all.
Ultimately neither of us really has time to play properly, but doing nothing is boring, so we are taking under planned fights rather than doing nothing.
It is another very sad and unlucky roll there.
Thanks a lot for this episode as well! Great analysis on DoDs strat strengths and weaknesses.
And I know what Lucid was talking about. In one of my games before I had 15 DoDs max in my armies (and I also won this game, btw) and I felt like a king. Dumb smirk wasn't coming off my face. And THIS Gath is casually saying: 'ehh we got 47 of em' and we are going to keep getting more'. AND they are not deserting! So I feel some kinda shame for myself in the past.
You can refine almost everything to perfection, I guess.
Most of the Agarthan losses to Vengeful Waters were Servants of the Oracles and Alchemists; he isn't using Reanimators, I assume😮 since upkeep is important.
You'll notice Pan lost a lot fewer Centaur Sages this turn; I think this is because they were A1s who die to Air Elementals to stun lock the ice elementals.
On the pricing question, in addition to the price for Dream horrors being at too low, I'm somewhat of the opinion that Black Hearts at 10B are too cheap; assassin is a very strong tag because only the attacker gets to script; e.g. we consistently lose high path geared mages in assassination battles to casting Ancestor Spirits rather than useful spells... Even if we have poison resistance on our bless, we still die to Swarm assassins because our dudes won't bless themselves.
And in dominions 6, with the obfuscate bless, just about any blood nation can have tons of stealthy mages with decent paths ready to turn into assassins.
I kinda disagree with that. Assassins are quite hard to use: they can be caught sneaking into the province or staying inside after succesful assassination and killed alone, they usually have troubles with logistic (in BEST CASE scenario most of the time they get to assassinate every second turn), they can be countered WITH A LOT LESSER investment than they cost (and in Dom 6 you even need additional item in misc slot to let then assassinate into enemy fort, so with it and Black heart they have 0 misc slots).
So, the only advantage assassins can give you is that they kinda fight in the 'parallel world' where only commanders and bodyguards exists. And that's huge, and that's why assassins, despite being a big investment with questionable return is STILL kinda viable.
Making it even harder? No, thanks. You guys (not Demonstenes exactly, just some imaginary guys I am talking to) only want to nerf things which made you suffer a serious defeat in the past: FV trap under the gemspent treshhold, DoDs, Assassins, whatever hell someone else hates. And that's shitty. I think we, as a players, should think not how to make game more controllable and boring by nerfing existing strats, but how to make it more crazy and fun by inventing more crazy and broken shit, and have more space inside the game for this creative process.
@@golemokrator2920interesting points but my main point is that the Black Heart itself is basically free for blood nations; the main thing you're paying for is the chest wound and lack of ability to move it. 10B is nothing when a late game nation can pull in 300-600B a turn depending on age.
There's also a 5 gem boots slot item to scale walls, BTW, and flyers don't need one, so flying boots also work.
My perspective is that it's valuable to nerf particularly cancerous scalable strategies, like WDoD farming or having literally 40 mage assassins inside your throne, because overpowered things reduce the ability to do other creative strategies. Dominions is by its nature not balanced, but anything that's too good has an incredibly warping effect on the meta. Like now everyone needs a plan for how to fight LA C'tis blood vengeance builds, because the new keepers mean they hit crazy numbers super early. It warps LA play quite a bit.
Like if there were a spell that cost 2 fire gems and got you a random commander Pretender chassis, everyone would spend all their time thinking about how to control Eternal Pyre and scale the casters and so on, because nothing can fight someone doing that. It'd really hurt the variety of the game, at least once people can be expected to hit that research level.
@@golemokrator2920what are you using to beat assassins for less than a 10 slave investment? It seems like all the advantages are on the assassins side economically.
This was one of the top things complained about in dom5, and many people were asking for a fix in 6.
@@lowlife4103 , just scouts! Buy many enough scouts and assassins won't be able to kill almost no-one important. It's first. Then, Bogyguards, in the absolute most cases flying or killy enough bodyguards defeating any budget assassin. Third, gems on mages or even better some simple pokemon items, they insure in most cases that assassin will be dead as well, even if mage dies too. And finally you can make a trap for assassins, kitting literally 1 commander strong enough so he can kill any number of assassins enemy was showing before, while you hide all your other commanders or teleporting them out in magephase.
Basically, assassins as far from being broken as a tool economically as one can imagine. Because the one who uses assassins have to take care about their gear, logistics and dangers related to enemy patrolling (in Dom 6 there are even magic rituals helping to catch sneaking enemies IN A FAR AWAY PROVINCE). While the defender can just prepare simple counters which are cheaper than means to kit a proper assassin.
So, as I was saying, the only advantage assassin users have is that THEY ARE picking the battlefild and not the other way around. That traumatizes their victims and they are crying that assassination mechanic is broken. While in reality it's actually opposite - assassin users pay more than defenders while risking being countered starting from any given turn they continue using this tactics.
@@DemonsthenesDominions how about a limit on the assasins, like you get 3-5 with no penality, and then if you add more they get a higher chance to get them caught, and even to trigger a battle where multiple assasins are in the same battle. The issue is not the assasins is the fact that you can have like 10-20+ of them in the same place.
I wonder what if there were meant to be more troops in that agartha battle?
Edit: nevermind it gets covered in other comments.
I'm curious just how many of these DoDs Gath ends up getting. I'm sure it'll be a crazy number haha
Certainly way less than Gath would like😂
I bet haha!
To think Agartha and T-Chi were once allies.
Everyone playing so conservatively and carefully. The Dominions I know involves random wild card players declaring endless hellwar for the slightest affronts and other acts of total chaos.
It is the finals after all😊